TIAI November 19

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Offline GodhaschosenMJ

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TIAI November 19

  • on: November 19, 2010, 12:02:34 AM
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline GodhaschosenMJ

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Re: TIAI 11/19

  • on: November 19, 2010, 12:08:42 AM
Quote from: "melody"
I think this is being blown way out of proportion.

Anna asked a question (well, several):

Quote from: "_Anna_"
I will put it this way: if God can make things happen and is managing life's situations, then why did Michael have to suffer like that? Why did he have to be humiliated, ridiculed and have his heart thrown in the dirt when he is innocent? Since the very beginning, why did he have to suffer like that, what did he ever do wrong to have God put such weight on his shoulders?

Admittedly, they may have been rhetorical ones but the point is that TS answered her query by redirecting to Job, an upright and righteous man who has done nothing wrong yet went through humiliation and ridicule—all according to "God's" plan. "God" allowed "Satan" to bring all sorts of calamities, suffering, and adversity into his life to test his character and faith. From what I've read, "God" deliberately allows for adversity  in order to shape his believers into the people he wants/needs them to be.

I'm not a religious person either, but I have read the literature (still in the process of finishing it actually). Reading a book doesn't automatically make you an adherent of any religion. Becoming part of a religion is a conscious choice.  If you reassure yourself why you believe (or don't believe) what you do, I don't see how reading the bible (or TS' redirects) could unwillingly brainwash you.

Mind-control is a legitimate and understandable concern. The more I read your posts, however, the more I see a classic case of prejudice. To use you as an example Anna, you're allowing an individual's interpretation of a book (and how they applied that interpretation) to define your opinion of the book, a book that you have no intention of personally acquainting yourself with first-hand, yet you still have formulated an opinion about it without getting to know it. This same prejudice, to this day, has people believing that Michael is a pedophile. They have no intention of acquainting themselves with Michael's true character nor, more importantly, what actually happened in 1993 and 2005. They flat out refuse to get to know Michael or familiarize themselves with the settlement in 1993 and the 2005 court case, and instead rely on the media's interpretation of what happened, the media's interpretation of Michael.

And I say all this, not to imply that you need to read the bible, but to say that you shouldn't let your personal prejudices hinder you from seeing what's actually being said; don't let the source of the information throw you off and more importantly don't let anyone elses' interpretations (but your own) define your reality.

Quote from: "_Anna_"
Quote from: "Sarahli"
And what if the Bible is also Michael's message?
It could be, I don't know, only he knows.. But now, do you think Michael would try to express himself through the Bible? why would he try to push his beliefs on people?

Well, to put myself in Michael's shoes, he seems to have a true and genuine concern for people; if he wholeheartedly believed the bible, why wouldn't he warn those he loved?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline lilwendy

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Re: TIAI 11/19

  • on: November 19, 2010, 03:10:32 AM
I think that Melody said a very KEY thing... If I put myself in Michael's shoes... we have to constantly do this since this is HIS hoax.  He created it.  He orchestrated it.  He is executing it.

It is so very important to reference what MJ said in his songs, in his books, in his speeches to figure out what he could be wanting us to know about.

There IS a message.  What do we believe that message is?  If we believe TS, he has told us already that MJ's plan is to turn the NWO upside down, that we are in critical times (end of the world), that MJ reads his Bible daily, etc.  

I feel that we are going round and round in circles sometimes (maybe it's just me LOL).

We can't feel bad for MJ and all he's gone through... that is HIS journey... he is being prepared for his part in God's plan.  

I truly believe that MJ has been given the power to impact millions of lives and thank GOD he takes that responsibility very seriously.  I believe he lives his life the way he does not only for himself and his family, but to be the best example he can be because he KNOWS his decisions will impact MILLIONS!

Well if you believed the world was ending, all the signs were there (corruption, greed, evil ways, eyes turning from God, etc.), and you knew you had an audience you would feel somewhat of a duty to share what you know.  For instance, if you knew there was a bomb in a building and you were the only one, and there were 10 of your friends in there, wouldn't you feel a responsibility to say something?  Of course!  You would have to tell them!  Even if they said, a bomb? Ha! You're crazy!  You're over reacting!  You would still want to say that you did everything in your power.  That's all MJ is doing IMHO.

However, to preach at someone doesn't do anything.  If you guide people through a process of self discovery, personal research, etc.  They will then make up their own minds.

This is that journey again IMHO.  This is the school of MJ! LOL

I'm just rambling now but want to say thank you again to Melody for a very well written and well expressed post!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline curls

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Re: TIAI 11/19

  • on: November 19, 2010, 04:19:10 AM
Quote from: "lilwendy"
However, to preach at someone doesn't do anything.  If you guide people through a process of self discovery, personal research, etc.  They will then make up their own minds.

This is that journey again IMHO.  This is the school of MJ! LOL

I said a long time ago (with MJ's background of JWs in mind)that this was the biggest and most unusual door-knocking exercise MJ has ever undertaken! That may sound flippant, but I don't mean it to be.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline TheRunningGirl

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Re: TIAI 11/19

  • on: November 19, 2010, 04:22:59 AM
Quote from: "lilwendy"
I think that Melody said a very KEY thing... If I put myself in Michael's shoes... we have to constantly do this since this is HIS hoax.  He created it.  He orchestrated it.  He is executing it.

It is so very important to reference what MJ said in his songs, in his books, in his speeches to figure out what he could be wanting us to know about.

There IS a message.  What do we believe that message is?  If we believe TS, he has told us already that MJ's plan is to turn the NWO upside down, that we are in critical times (end of the world), that MJ reads his Bible daily, etc.  

I feel that we are going round and round in circles sometimes (maybe it's just me LOL).

We can't feel bad for MJ and all he's gone through... that is HIS journey... he is being prepared for his part in God's plan.  

I truly believe that MJ has been given the power to impact millions of lives and thank GOD he takes that responsibility very seriously.  I believe he lives his life the way he does not only for himself and his family, but to be the best example he can be because he KNOWS his decisions will impact MILLIONS!

Well if you believed the world was ending, all the signs were there (corruption, greed, evil ways, eyes turning from God, etc.), and you knew you had an audience you would feel somewhat of a duty to share what you know.  For instance, if you knew there was a bomb in a building and you were the only one, and there were 10 of your friends in there, wouldn't you feel a responsibility to say something?  Of course!  You would have to tell them!  Even if they said, a bomb? Ha! You're crazy!  You're over reacting!  You would still want to say that you did everything in your power.  That's all MJ is doing IMHO.

However, to preach at someone doesn't do anything.  If you guide people through a process of self discovery, personal research, etc.  They will then make up their own minds.

This is that journey again IMHO.  This is the school of MJ! LOL

I'm just rambling now but want to say thank you again to Melody for a very well written and well expressed post!

@Lilwendy ---> Nice Post I wholeheartedly agree!
@ Melody---> Great Reply!

This "Hoax" is Michael's once in a lifetime "production".  He is taking us through a journey of discovery where we are invited to look at information, do our own research and draw our own conclusions. This way, we are learning to "Think for ourselves" (Take responsibility for our own decisions); we are learning as much about ourselves as we are about Michael and his message.
Michael is our Teacher on the journey, we are HIS pupils!

Ultimately, we need to get read of all sorts of conditioning (Media, social systems...etc) to FREE OURSELVES ("Remember --->Prejudice is ignorance") and be able to play our part in whatever scenarios may develop in the future --- Be it the end of the World or else!

Thank You TS....... XX

With L.O.V.E
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »


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Offline _Anna_

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Re: TIAI 11/19

  • on: November 19, 2010, 04:29:43 AM
Quote from: "lilwendy"
There IS a message.  What do we believe that message is?  If we believe TS, he has told us already that MJ's plan is to turn the NWO upside down, that we are in critical times (end of the world), that MJ reads his Bible daily, etc.  

can you please tell me where can I see with my eyes Michael stating he reads Bible daily? I just want to see with my eyes. Because I've read this sentence about Michael reading the Bible daily and who said that was Ian Halperin.If you know what I mean.

As long as I don't see Michael saying with his own mouth "I read Bible daily", I don't believe it. I know it might sound harsh but it's how I think. I don't believe anybody who makes statements about him. Only he can know what he does inside his home.And I've never seen Michael with my own eyes saying he reads the Bible daily.Isn't it like this- to not believe anything you hear or see, and just because it's printed in black ink doesn't make it the gospel.

"When you hear it from my mouth, then you can believe it"- Michael
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline trustno1

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Re: TIAI 11/19

  • on: November 19, 2010, 04:43:46 AM
I agree with the thought that it seems we're going round in circles with this whole religious debate.  I am not religious, like many others here, but Michael is, I don't think he'd try and push his beliefs on others as he researched all religions and had respect for them, he wouldn't say that his is the one true faith so we should all follow that.  In my opinion the redirects to bible quotes/passages is to say something without directly saying it, we have to interpret the passages and apply them to the current situation.  Obviously those of us who have a strong religious faith can take the lead here but I think we can all get the gist of what the redirects are saying to us.

  I understand what Anna and Tarja were worried about, the religious conditioning, but I don't think anyone who isn't succeptible to that kind of thing would have to worry.  I can read as many bible quotes as are thrown at me, it doesn't mean I'm going to become religious.  It depends on your opinion of TS I suppose.  Either you think he's a very manipulative guy who is a genius at numerology, deeply religious, with inside information of sorts, who is doing all this to play with people's emotions and minds, or he is genuine but cannot say who he really is or why he is here.  The redirects which are predictions of things that have actually come to pass are my main reason for believing him, the numerology and bible quotes are things anyone can/does throw around and have people make connections to the hoax and Michael in any way they please.  I think the intention is for us to work together, no matter what our beliefs or our backgrounds, when something needs to be interpreted in a religious way those who are religious can take the reins but the rest of us can also try and make the connection. As for asking why God permits suffering, that's never going to yield an answer that satisfies everyone.  Never has, never will. I agree fully with something my Grandpa told me once, you can never win an argument over sport, politics or religion so don't even get into one!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline GINAFELICIA

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Re: TIAI 11/19

  • on: November 19, 2010, 05:03:38 AM
Michael said he believes in God, even very much...... who believes in God reads the Bible, maybe not daily but often enough to learn the message.

Michael and God are good "friends"  :)
Michael sings for God in "Will you be there" and does it so well that I can actually feel his faith, it's almost material, like you can touch it......

Maybe Michael doesn't even need to read the Bible daily because the Bible word is written in his heart from the beginnings.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline GINAFELICIA

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Re: TIAI 11/19

  • on: November 19, 2010, 05:08:03 AM
Why did he have to suffer if he was innocent?!
Because joy makes us happy but doesn't help us to evolve.
Because creation comes more easy from pain than from joy.
Because pain builds while joy consumes.
Because he had faith enough to take the pain and use it to do good.
Because he is an instrument of God, the chosen one.......
Love you Michael.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Serenitys_Dream

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Re: TIAI 11/19

  • on: November 19, 2010, 05:09:56 AM
Quote from: "_Anna_"
Quote from: "lilwendy"
There IS a message.  What do we believe that message is?  If we believe TS, he has told us already that MJ's plan is to turn the NWO upside down, that we are in critical times (end of the world), that MJ reads his Bible daily, etc.  

can you please tell me where can I see with my eyes Michael stating he reads Bible daily? I just want to see with my eyes. Because I've read this sentence about Michael reading the Bible daily and who said that was Ian Halperin.If you know what I mean.

As long as I don't see Michael saying with his own mouth "I read Bible daily", I don't believe it. I know it might sound harsh but it's how I think. I don't believe anybody who makes statements about him. Only he can know what he does inside his home.And I've never seen Michael with my own eyes saying he reads the Bible daily.Isn't it like this- to not believe anything you hear or see, and just because it's printed in black ink doesn't make it the gospel.

"When you hear it from my mouth, then you can believe it"- Michael

Michael Jackson

On studying the Bible: 1976 "Black Stars" Magazine interview
"Each day I take time out to study the Bible, no matter where I am. The teachings of the Bible have added a new dimension to my life. It, somehow, makes me whole."

1979 Ebony Magazine
"I believe in the Bible and I try to follow the Bible. I know I’m an imperfect person… I’m not making myself an angel because I’m not an angel and I’m not a devil either. I try to be the best I can and I try to do what I think is right. It’s that simple…I don’t just pray at night. I pray at different times during the day. Whenever I see something beautiful, I say, "Oh, God, that’s beautiful." I say little prayers like that all through the day."

2003 60 Minutes TV interview with Ed Bradley
"I will never stop helping and loving people the way Jesus said to. He said "Continue to love. Always love. Remember children. Imitate the children." Not childish, but childlike."

2005 At Large with Geraldo Rivera TV Interview
"Caring. And reading the Bible, learning about God, Jesus, love. He said, 'Bring on the children', 'Imitate the children', 'Be like the children' and 'Take care of others.' Take care of old people. And we were raised with those values. Those are very important values and my family and I we were raised with those values and they continue strong in us today."

"It's important to love your neighbors.  I truly think it comes from my mother and God. The way we were raised. The values my mother instilled in us in youth. She was always with the Bible teaching us - we’d go to service all the time. Four times a week, and I’m so glad we did that because those values are very important. I don’t know if I could have done as well without them."

"I try to be kind and generous and to give to people and to do what I think God wants me to do. Sometimes I pray and say "where do you want me to go next, God? What do you want me to do from here?" I’ve always been very spiritual in that way. It’s nothing new.  I always have been."

Time Magazine
Seth Riggs, a vocal teacher who worked with Michael for two hours a day, 5 or 6 days a week while Michael was recording Thriller and also on subsequent projects, commented on Michael's character in a Time Magazine article.  "Michael is a very special man. He would come in for his lesson and sit down and we would have a prayer and then read the Bible and then have another prayer and start to work.  That's the way he liked to begin his day.  Can you imagine a performer as big as Michael Jackson turning around in a lesson and discussing how wonderful God has been to him and how much he loves God?"
http://http://www.reflectionsonthedance.com/The-Man.html

Michael Jackson Bodyguards' Q&A:
06/17/2010
Among the tidbits shared by the bodyguards? Michael Jackson cooked home-made meals for his kids, owned a chocolate lab named Kenya, read the Bible daily, used his zoo as a pick-up line, loved Subway, and even had his own Facebook account.
http://http://community.livejournal.com/ohnotheydidnt/48008897.html

Did Michael Jackson read the bible?
Yes, Michael Jackson was very well read on the Bible and could quote scripture from memory.
http://http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Did_Michael_Jackson_read_the_bible
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline _Anna_

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Re: TIAI 11/19

  • on: November 19, 2010, 05:32:08 AM
Well, I knew all those, I wondered if there is a video of it, but thank you for posting tough.

Anyway, trustno1 is deffinitely right when she says "you can never win an argument over sport, politics or religion so don't even get into one." It is simply something we'll never agree on, because of completely opposed views. It's something i wanted to explain and discuss about because the religious conditioning is,in my opinion, the most dangerous of all. But I leave it here, as i said everything I had to express about it.

People will always have different opinions and it's logical to be like this.

As I said before too, I am not an atheist, I have a level of spirituality too, but I don't follow Bible's rules or any rules in this world. I do not agree with following it blindly nor with Bible's conditioning. For me, the faith in a spiritual form- be it called God or Higher Force- doesn't have anything to do with reading a book of faith like the Bible or any other out there.

Michael can be closer to God and read the Bible and all, but just because he does so doesn't mean that I should follow it too. I respect his beliefs and I will never tell anybody what to believe or not, or who's wrong and who's right.It's up to everyone to decide that, based on our own consciousness and common sense.I respect him and his beliefs, but it doesn't mean I have to believe in it too. And as long as I respect his beliefs, it means he respects mine too, and won't push that on anybody. No one has the right to do so, no matter what. We are free. Freedom is my 1st rule in life and that's why I follow no rule but my own.

I put a quote from Buddah here, that speaks my beliefs and vision completely:

"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.”
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline _Anna_

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Re: TIAI 11/19

  • on: November 19, 2010, 05:47:00 AM
curls posted this in the other thread. I put it here.
Michael's quote.
Quote
curls wrote:
God

It's strange that God doesn't mind expressing Himself/Herself in all the religions of the world,
while people still cling to the notion that their way is the only right way. Whatever you try to say
about God, someone will take offense, even if you say everyone's love of God is right for them.
For me the form God takes is not the most important thing. What's most important is the
essence.
My songs and dances are outlines for Him to come in and fill. I hold out the form. She
puts in the sweetness.
I've looked up at the night sky and beheld the stars so intimately close, it was as if my
grandmother had made them for me. "How rich, how sumptuous," I thought. In that moment I
saw God in His creation. I could as easily have seen Her in the beauty of a rainbow, the grace of
a deer bounding through a meadow, the truth of a father's kiss. But for me the sweetest contact
with God has no form.
I close my eyes, look within, and enter a deep soft silence. The infinity of
God's creation embraces me. We are one
.
For me that's what spirituality means. FEELING and not obeying or following Bible's rules. But here we go again.
If Michael thinks like this, that God expresses Himself in all religions, then why do we receive quotes only from the Bible? Muslims have the Koran,for example, not the Bible.And we surely have muslim people here and Michael has muslim people as fans too. Other religions might have other books of faith. Why do we receive passages only from the Bible? If Michael thinks that God has no specific form, that you feel the presence and the creation, and not in a material way?
« Last Edit: November 19, 2010, 05:49:00 AM by _Anna_ »

Offline trustno1

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Re: TIAI 11/19

  • on: November 19, 2010, 05:47:50 AM
Well said Anna.  It is something that's personal to everyone.  I don't think there should be any judging going on of those of us who choose to live our lives as good, honest human beings but who do not have a religious belief.  Though after what I just read on another thread I'm worried that not everyone will stick to that.  Such statements as the ones I just read are not only wrong but extremely offensive.  I think we should all try and put our religious beliefs aside and work together as I think the last thing Michael would want is for this to become a division between us.  Too much suffering in the world is caused by arguing over religion and I think it would be a real shame if it happened on here too.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Serenitys_Dream

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Re: TIAI 11/19

  • on: November 19, 2010, 05:48:27 AM
Quote from: "_Anna_"
Well, I knew all those, I wondered if there is a video of it, but thank you for posting tough.

Why don't you look for the Television Interviews yourself that I posted. These are quotes taken from interviews with Michael on television and in magazines.

It seems you don't want to admit that Michael was a very religious man for some reason but he was and there simply is no denying that. This is also Michael's hoax so what is important are his beliefs and his messages. Regardless of what TS has redirected to, I can find a multitude of quotes by Michael concerning the bible, God, his spiritual beliefs, how he believes that his music came from God and how important this all is to him. If you want to dismiss this than that is fine but then you don't know or understand  Michael at all because his spirituality and his relationship with God a huge part of his life, his music, his message and this hoax.

And I am not involved with any religion nor was I raised "religious". I have my beliefs but they are not "mainstream". i consider myself spiritual.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2010, 05:50:28 AM by Serenitys_Dream »

Offline curls

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Re: TIAI 11/19

  • on: November 19, 2010, 05:49:58 AM
(I thought I'd just posted this but it doesn't appear to be showing up, so I'll try again!) I just went and checked what MJ said about God in 'Dancing the Dream', and thought now might be a good time to share it.

God

It's strange that God doesn't mind expressing Himself/Herself in all the religions of the world,
while people still cling to the notion that their way is the only right way. Whatever you try to say
about God, someone will take offense, even if you say everyone's love of God is right for them.
For me the form God takes is not the most important thing. What's most important is the
essence. My songs and dances are outlines for Him to come in and fill. I hold out the form. She
puts in the sweetness.
I've looked up at the night sky and beheld the stars so intimately close, it was as if my
grandmother had made them for me. "How rich, how sumptuous," I thought. In that moment I
saw God in His creation. I could as easily have seen Her in the beauty of a rainbow, the grace of
a deer bounding through a meadow, the truth of a father's kiss. But for me the sweetest contact
with God has no form. I close my eyes, look within, and enter a deep soft silence. The infinity of
God's creation embraces me. We are one.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline curls

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Re: TIAI 11/19

  • on: November 19, 2010, 05:54:51 AM
Oops, sorry folks! Seems I posted on 11/18 when I thought it was here, 11/19!

It's worth reading twice though, don't you think? I have great respect and admiration for MJ's deeply personal view of God. He didn't just pluck that description from 'some book' - it came from deep within his heart.

Thanks Anna for moving it here!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline trustno1

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Re: TIAI 11/19

  • on: November 19, 2010, 05:56:56 AM
I don't think anyone is denying Michael is religious, and he would probably use these passages to point us in a certain direction, but what's at issue here is whether the non-religious among us are being left out.  I don't think we are, I think the passages can be interpreted and applied by non-religious people too, and I don't think Michael is saying that only religious people can participate and understand.  It's not an exclusive club.  Anna and Tarja are understandably distrustful of any thought of religious conditioning, and as I said before I don't think that's what's happening here.  It's up to each of us to make our own decision. No-one will tell me what to think or force their beliefs on me and I think as long as we all accept that we're not all clones and have our own ideas and beliefs we'll get along fine.  Only when judging others starts to creep in (as I have started to witness unfortunately) then we have something to worry about.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline _Anna_

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Re: TIAI 11/19

  • on: November 19, 2010, 06:03:14 AM
Quote from: "trustno1"
I don't think anyone is denying Michael is religious, and he would probably use these passages to point us in a certain direction, but what's at issue here is whether the non-religious among us are being left out.  
This answer is to Serenity_Dreams who said that I don't want to accept Michael is religious. It's not that I don't want to accept it, I accept it and respect that. The issue here is, and I ask you because you said "If you want to dismiss this than that is fine but then you don't know or understand Michael at all"- and that should mean that if Michael's message in this situation is God and if I do not believe in it and won't change my beliefs that would mean I should be out of it as long as I do not share the same belief? That should mean that Michael discriminates people? I don't think that's what it is in his heart.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline katy (MJFAN7)

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Re: TIAI 11/19

  • on: November 19, 2010, 06:24:01 AM
That was a great post by Melody!
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أملي هو فيكم.

Serenitys_Dream

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Re: TIAI 11/19

  • on: November 19, 2010, 06:25:24 AM
Quote from: "_Anna_"
Quote from: "trustno1"
I don't think anyone is denying Michael is religious, and he would probably use these passages to point us in a certain direction, but what's at issue here is whether the non-religious among us are being left out.  
This answer is to Serenity_Dreams who said that I don't want to accept Michael is religious. It's not that I don't want to accept it, I accept it and respect that. The issue here is, and I ask you because you said "If you want to dismiss this than that is fine but then you don't know or understand Michael at all"- and that should mean that if Michael's message in this situation is God and if I do not believe in it and won't change my beliefs that would mean I should be out of it as long as I do not share the same belief? That should mean that Michael discriminates people? I don't think that's what it is in his heart.

No it means that God, the bible, spirituality etc are all very important to Michael, this is his hoax and spirituality has played a very important role in his life and is part of the hoax. If you want to understand what is going on you have to put your beliefs to the side and place yourself in Michael's shoes. To understand the man and his hoax is to look at his life, what is important to him and from his perspective. His messages are in the music, his channelling from a higher power, his philosophy on life, his beliefs and not yours.

There is no discrimination involved at all, "This is It, Michael Jackson as you've never seen him before". Maybe what that really means is Michael Jackson is going to change how he has been perceived, no more "media created persona" but the real Michael. You have a right to beLIEve whatever you choose but without really opening your mind to what Michael believes you aren't going to get Michael's message nor understand the reasons behind the hoax; it is all connected.

I mean seriously you asked where did Michael say he read the bible daily. I posted quotes from interviews that aired on television and were published in magazines that show Michael did say he read the bible daily and you just dismiss it. You say you've seen it before. So I interpret that as, you already know all of that, yet you said you never knew he said it in your previous post.

I am not going to continue spending my time, researching something for you, that gives you the answer to your question and then have you just brush it off. It isn't up to me or anyone one else to convince you of anything. If you want to explore the possibilities do it, if you don't then don't. Your acceptance of who Michael really is, his messages and understanding this hoax are your own responsibility, especially if the answers to your question has already been given by the man himself, in his own words.
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Offline _Anna_

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Re: TIAI 11/19

  • on: November 19, 2010, 06:35:09 AM
Quote from: "Serenitys_Dream"

I mean seriously you asked where did Michael say he read the bible daily. I posted quotes from interviews that aired on television and were published in magazines that show Michael did say he read the bible daily and you just dismiss it. You say you've seen it before. So I interpret that as, you already know all of that, yet you said you never knew he said it in your previous post.

No, the reason why I said where can I see Michael saying that was regarding strictly to the statement "Michael reads the Bible daily". And Michael said he is spiritual and that God for him has no form, it's creation. He didn't say he reads the Bible daily. So I wanted to see if it's only me who never saw him saying that. From being spiritual to "reading the Bible daily" is another thing. It's a statement that didn't come out of his mouth, but it was said and taken as it is.

Do people know what he does after he closes the door to his room?I strictly referred to that particular statement.
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Serenitys_Dream

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Re: TIAI 11/19

  • on: November 19, 2010, 06:37:51 AM
Quote from: "_Anna_"
Quote from: "Serenitys_Dream"

I mean seriously you asked where did Michael say he read the bible daily. I posted quotes from interviews that aired on television and were published in magazines that show Michael did say he read the bible daily and you just dismiss it. You say you've seen it before. So I interpret that as, you already know all of that, yet you said you never knew he said it in your previous post.

No, the reason why I said where can I see Michael saying that was regarding strictly to the statement "Michael reads the Bible daily". And Michael said he is spiritual and that God for him has no form, it's creation. He didn't say he reads the Bible daily. So I wanted to see if it's only me who never saw him saying that. From being spiritual to "reading the Bible daily" is another thing. It's a statement that didn't come out of his mouth, but it was said and takes as it is.

Do people know what he does after he closes the door to his room?

He did say it...

Quote from: "Serenitys_Dream"

Michael Jackson

On studying the Bible: 1976 "Black Stars" Magazine interview
"Each day I take time out to study the Bible, no matter where I am. The teachings of the Bible have added a new dimension to my life. It, somehow, makes me whole."

1979 Ebony Magazine
"I believe in the Bible and I try to follow the Bible. I know I’m an imperfect person… I’m not making myself an angel because I’m not an angel and I’m not a devil either. I try to be the best I can and I try to do what I think is right. It’s that simple…I don’t just pray at night. I pray at different times during the day. Whenever I see something beautiful, I say, "Oh, God, that’s beautiful." I say little prayers like that all through the day."

2003 60 Minutes TV interview with Ed Bradley
"I will never stop helping and loving people the way Jesus said to. He said "Continue to love. Always love. Remember children. Imitate the children." Not childish, but childlike."

2005 At Large with Geraldo Rivera TV Interview
"Caring. And reading the Bible, learning about God, Jesus, love. He said, 'Bring on the children', 'Imitate the children', 'Be like the children' and 'Take care of others.' Take care of old people. And we were raised with those values. Those are very important values and my family and I we were raised with those values and they continue strong in us today."

"It's important to love your neighbors.  I truly think it comes from my mother and God. The way we were raised. The values my mother instilled in us in youth. She was always with the Bible teaching us - we’d go to service all the time. Four times a week, and I’m so glad we did that because those values are very important. I don’t know if I could have done as well without them."

"I try to be kind and generous and to give to people and to do what I think God wants me to do. Sometimes I pray and say "where do you want me to go next, God? What do you want me to do from here?" I’ve always been very spiritual in that way. It’s nothing new.  I always have been."

Time Magazine
Seth Riggs, a vocal teacher who worked with Michael for two hours a day, 5 or 6 days a week while Michael was recording Thriller and also on subsequent projects, commented on Michael's character in a Time Magazine article.  "Michael is a very special man. He would come in for his lesson and sit down and we would have a prayer and then read the Bible and then have another prayer and start to work.  That's the way he liked to begin his day.  Can you imagine a performer as big as Michael Jackson turning around in a lesson and discussing how wonderful God has been to him and how much he loves God?"
http://http://www.reflectionsonthedance.com/The-Man.html

Michael Jackson Bodyguards' Q&A:
06/17/2010
Among the tidbits shared by the bodyguards? Michael Jackson cooked home-made meals for his kids, owned a chocolate lab named Kenya, read the Bible daily, used his zoo as a pick-up line, loved Subway, and even had his own Facebook account.
http://http://community.livejournal.com/ohnotheydidnt/48008897.html

Did Michael Jackson read the bible?
Yes, Michael Jackson was very well read on the Bible and could quote scripture from memory.
http://http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Did_Michael_Jackson_read_the_bible
« Last Edit: November 19, 2010, 06:39:01 AM by Serenitys_Dream »

Offline Tarja

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Re: TIAI 11/19

  • on: November 19, 2010, 06:38:00 AM
Quote from: "GINAFELICIA"
Michael said he believes in God, even very much...... who believes in God reads the Bible, maybe not daily but often enough to learn the message.

My mother does believe in God since I know her and she told me that she never ever took the Bible in her hands. I don't think it's a rule at all
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Offline _Anna_

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Re: TIAI 11/19

  • on: November 19, 2010, 06:43:05 AM
I will leave it here, as it's a constant agruement and no one has the right to push opinions on anybody.

I should have never opened the subject, it's clear as daylight that the belief in God and religion has been separating people since centuries. We'll never agree on this subject and this leads just to war.

It just hurts to see that as long as I respect other's opinions, Michael's opinion and beliefs, I am somehow told to get out because I don't understand Michael's message. If Michael's message is God and belief then even then, it doesn't mean I have to convert to the idea. I respect it but I don't follow that path.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2010, 06:43:29 AM by _Anna_ »

Offline trublu

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Re: TIAI 11/19

  • on: November 19, 2010, 06:43:13 AM
Quote from: "Tarja"
Quote from: "GINAFELICIA"
Michael said he believes in God, even very much...... who believes in God reads the Bible, maybe not daily but often enough to learn the message.

My mother does believe in God since I know her and she told me that she never ever took the Bible in her hands. I don't think it's a rule at all

And also not all people who believe in God are Christians...
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Offline Tarja

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Re: TIAI 11/19

  • on: November 19, 2010, 06:51:16 AM
Quote from: "trustno1"
I agree fully with something my Grandpa told me once, you can never win an argument over sport, politics or religion so don't even get into one!

Your grandpa is so right.. and i don't even know I opened my mouth when I knew this would happen. But that's me and I am who I am. Never a non religious person  will win an argument with a religious person. And if they have 1000 arguments to show me they are right and that the religion will save the world, that the Bible is God's word, I'll have 1001 arguments to say it could be very different. So, I'll take your grandpa's advice.

You know, it's not even about being religious or not. It's about the fact that religion CAN be used in a malicious way no matter how people don't want to accept it. Religious rituals and brainwashing have been among people since thousands of years.  Religion is not only all good as people think. Religion at an extreme can harm and it's scary that people are not aware of it.

It is not about TS is redirecting only religious quotes lately, it's about the fact that if religion can be used ALSO in a malicious way, who can demonstrate or be sure that TS is using it in a good way? Who can  be sure TS is speaking Michael's words? Who can be sure of anything? This is what I was saying since 2 days ago and no one seems to understand. It is not about the fact TS redirects to the Bible it's the fact that no one knows if TS' intention with this is good or bad, because religion can be used also with a bad intention. What I was trying to do is warn people to  stop for 5 minutes and regard all the possibilities that  EVERYONE who appears on the forums and states something. No matter how intelligent that someone looks. If you can't demonstrate their theories are false it doesn't mean their theories are true. There might always be the possibility that  someone would appear and demonstrate it. It was just a warn, a kind of human care if you want to give it a name. Because I know what religion can do and how much it is able to harm humans if it is used with bad intentions.
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[size=150]I won\'t be using this account/ID name anymore. My name is Yulia, for who wants to know. Souza, you can delete this account if you want to.I\'m not using it anymore.[/size]

Offline MissG

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Re: TIAI 11/19

  • on: November 19, 2010, 09:08:23 AM
Quote from: "curls"
Quote from: "lilwendy"
However, to preach at someone doesn't do anything.  If you guide people through a process of self discovery, personal research, etc.  They will then make up their own minds.

This is that journey again IMHO.  This is the school of MJ! LOL

I said a long time ago (with MJ's background of JWs in mind)that this was the biggest and most unusual door-knocking exercise MJ has ever undertaken! That may sound flippant, but I don't mean it to be.

He he  :D  I also wrote a similar thought here and there.

Feels like virtual/ new days preaching doesn´t it?  ;)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
("Minkin güerveeeee")
Michael pls come back


"Why a four-year-old child could understand this hoax. Run out and find me a four-year-old child. I can't make head nor tail out of it"

Offline MissG

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Re: TIAI 11/19

  • on: November 19, 2010, 09:16:19 AM
Well, well  :D

At the end all of us are reading the passages of the Bible  ;)  atheists, agnostics, muslims...all of us....

I guess that this can be called mission accomplished hihi hehe huhu
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
("Minkin güerveeeee")
Michael pls come back


"Why a four-year-old child could understand this hoax. Run out and find me a four-year-old child. I can't make head nor tail out of it"

Offline sandythyme

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Re: TIAI 11/19

  • on: November 19, 2010, 09:42:40 AM
I just want to say, Melody, Lilwendy, The running girl and Serenitys_Dream, Thank you.  Well said! Great referencing!  I am a spiritual person, not religious but I truly believe in God.  I love it when we get messages from the bible because I do not know a lot about the bible.  I find it encouraging and uplifting.  That's how it makes me feel, I am not being forced to feel that way.  Michael believes in the bible and is trying to guide us.  I think it's just another journey for me to explore.  I look for your posts when I don't understand some of the reference to the bible because I know you will explain the meanings very well.  So thank you!  Thanks to all of you actually.  You are all pretty amazing people.  I enjoy all of the different opinions and thoughts.  It amazes me how people think and what they believe in and how they express themselves.  I love it!!  Take care, Love to All
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Offline paula-c

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Re: TIAI 11/19

  • on: November 19, 2010, 10:49:36 AM
Michael may be expressed through the Bible, there is nothing wrong, he knows that there are people who are not religious, are messages and do not see it as a way of trying to push their beliefs on people. What do Michael has preached?, Peace, love our fellow animals and nature, to keep the faith, I see nothing wrong with that.
And as the new world order, The most striking prophecies of the Bible found in the last book, called "Revelation" or "Apocalypse," which was recorded by the Apostle John around AD 95. These events, the latest and most amazing panoramic view of the future, culminating event embodies revelations, some already completed, most are still ahead.
The book is presented almost in its entirety, as visions that the author claims to have received from God or Jesus Christ (Rev. 1:1-2) and is written in a language quite different from that used in other New Testament books

The Bible reveals that a single world Government, a world Empire, or a world order, which will have, as a Government, A representative there on Earth at the end of the times. In addition, this Global Government will be supported and complemented by a single world religion. Human head this global religion is a character from great charisma, which enjoy acceptance, appreciation and blind obedience of much of the population of the planet. Their main "flags" are: love, mercy, world peace and the brotherhood of peoples

All momentary views of "the things that must happen soon..." (Revelation 1: 1) John reveals, none is more intriguing and appalling that the vision of "The beast" of revelation chapter 13. This is not the first time that she has appeared biblical prophets. Based on detail, it is clear that this is the same frightening creature whose description has already been posted three times. Juan had personally seen twice. Daniel had also seen 600 years earlier.
This beast represents the resurgence of IMPERIO Roman, which will become the COUNTERFEITING SATÁNICA EN scale world of the Kingdom of God. This Empire will be governed at the global level by A single person, A single man, the ANTICHRIST, who will be Satan's representative on Earth.
Rome will retrieve its greatness. The way that controlled the ancient world, will also be the central headquarters for the new world order, the dream of the United Nations

This World Government will not proclaimed instantly, but that the process will be gradually.
Basically the way more effective and strong, is go "globalizing" peoples of their business transactions. In this sense we have clear indications of what progress is being made thereon, taking account of trade agreements that are developing globally, for quite some time, as the European economic community, NAFTA, Mercosur, etc.

The next step, which pasmódicamente has begun to manifest itself powerfully in Europe, is the MONETARIA unification, where the continent is adopting the EURO, abandoning obviously each old currency.
In July 2000, and not with little consternation, the currency is dead forever more ancient Europe: the DRACHMA Greece, which has died in pursuit of "the advancement of the global economy" and the monetary unification of Europe at the hands of the EURO.
The note says that: ".. .many Greek see this change as an indication of the country is losing its personality...". Unfortunately it is a clear indication that you will lose much more than that, and worldwide.

Offline emeraldcity

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Re: TIAI 11/19

  • on: November 19, 2010, 01:11:50 PM
Thank you to all who have posted here.  I respect the diverse views expressed and each day I learn something new and this enriches me as a person.  I think the lesson I take from what I have read today is "we must all agree to disagree on certain subjects, however do it in an atmosphere of love and respect for one anothers' beliefs and opinions".  I believe this is what Michael would want.


"You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
 Friedrich Nietzsche
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Offline ~Souza~

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Re: TIAI 11/19

  • on: November 19, 2010, 02:18:17 PM
I don't get all the questions about the Bible quotes. To say it very simple: Mike is pulling off a hoax in which he needs to show us things we can use to connect the dots. Sometimes these are Bible scriptures. He uses the Bible because he is familiar with it, he was raised by it. He uses the King James version because that is the Watchtower's Bible. Mike has been a JW for most of his life and he probably knows it by heart so that makes it easier to direct to that, instead of the Koran, which he probably doesn't know by heart. It a way to show us what is happening and how he feels about things now that he doesn't have a voice. You don't have to be religious to get the point of a redirect. It's his hoax, his plan and this is his way of guiding us. Who are we to say he should use other sources? I rather have it written plain out as well, because those Bible scriptures are new to me and it takes an extra read to fully understand, but it's not my hoax. I have the choise to read it or follow it or not.
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Offline ~Souza~

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Re: TIAI 11/19

  • on: November 19, 2010, 02:18:44 PM
ps; Great post melody. I agree.
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Offline trustno1

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Re: TIAI 11/19

  • on: November 19, 2010, 02:40:07 PM
We can debate the use of the Bible passages forever and a day but I don't think that's the intention.  We just have to apply them to the current hoax situation.  I don't think anyone should worry about TS having sinister intentions, we all choose whether or not to be religious.  Just as we all choose whether to believe TS is genuine or not.  He's not forcing us.  I personally do think he's genuine but if I'm wrong and he's just a very smart trickster then that's my fault for believing him in the first place.  I wouldn't be devastated as it was my own choice to believe him, he didn't force me to nor did he brainwash me. I'd say "Hats Off to You Sir, You Got Me!!! ":D
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In a world filled with despair, we must still dare to dream.  And in a world filled with distrust, we must still dare to believe.

Offline GINAFELICIA

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Re: TIAI 11/19

  • on: November 19, 2010, 03:59:41 PM
I am delighted when TS redirects to the Bible.
I've been reading a lot of the Bible, I tried the Coran too but..... it just wasnt' for me.....
I am so happy that Michael believes in God and I'm happy he knows the Bible.
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Offline navibl

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Re: TIAI 11/19

  • on: November 19, 2010, 04:22:52 PM
I will say this and hopefully I won’t get my head chopped off.  I am not saying this to be judgmental of the people that don’t like the bible or God or Jesus Christ.  I am just giving information that I know to be fact to those of us who do.  So to the non BeLIEvers please don’t take offense and give me grief.

Michael IS NOT religious, he said so many times.  He IS however, spiritual and believes in JESUS CHRIST.  He has a relationship with Jesus and has stated over and over his desire to be like him!!  THAT is the definition of being Christian NOT religious.  Many religions do not believe in Christ.  

Now remember I am speaking to the believers.  There is ONE GOD.  There will be one heaven, so when we say there is only one way, we are speaking of one way to heaven and that is to believe in ONE God and his son Jesus. It can’t be …oh for those who don’t believe in Jesus, go over here to this heaven and those who do….well you can go over here to this one. We all have to be of one mind and one accord, but that is not brain washing that is having our eyes open to the infinity of what God created for us in the beginning. Living in one mind creates harmony and unity and Love and avoids strife and deception and confusion.   The bible is God divine inspired word, it tells of people that lived before us and their trials and tribulations and how they lived and overcame them.  It tells us of how to live a life to LOVE God and one another.  God does not make bad things happen to his children but here is the fall of man.

Michael told Shumey he didn’t understand this part and I think somewhere down the line Rodney Jerkins and his father may have given him insight on this.  But looking at creation in Genesis which means beginning, God did not create us to be slaves, he created us from the beginning to have choice, he did not want man to serve him out of obligation, so the tree of knowledge of good and evil was ever present in the garden.  It was intended for the angels that were sent to the earth to teach and instruct man on how to live and produce.  Man was like a child in a grown body at the time he was created.  But we needed teachers.  The angels were sent here for that purpose and the tree of knowledge of good and evil was theirs.

God told man not to eat, because he would die.  And most know the story, but don’t understand the implication of what took place there.  In Adam and Eve eating the fruit not meant for human consumption it opened their eyes to a world that God never intended them to live in.  God never intended man to suffer and have grief and anguish we were meant to live the life that we know now we will live when Jesus returns.  But eating the fruit caused a disconnect between man and God and Satan then had power to step in and create division and strife among man and suffering and pain.  But that was mans choice and now we blame God and say he should have not allowed bad things to happen to us, but our disobedience brought trouble into our lives.  It is like a lamp on a table, plugged into an electrical socket, if you unplug the lamp and walk around in the dark and fall and hurt yourself, you can’t blame the outlet for getting hurt.  You unplugged your light source and living in darkness caused you to fall.  The outlet was always there with the power that you needed, it is up to you to stay plugged in.
 
Man became unplugged from God in the Garden and trouble increased in his life.  Fortunately, God sent his son to reconnect us to God.  God will not allow sin “evil” to dwell in his presents, that is why Lucifer was cast out of heaven.  Yes even Angels have free will, thus the fallen angels.  So Jesus has promised that he would return and end all evil and pain and strife, for those who BeLIEve.  
Most don’t like that  picture, but I would have to ask,the shape the world is in now, IS there a better choice.  
And I say this with Love for everyone, even the non believers.
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Offline Sarahli

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Re: TIAI 11/19

  • on: November 19, 2010, 06:19:52 PM
"Let us dream of tomorrow where we can trully love from the soul and know love as the ultimate truth at the heart of all creation."

One of my favorite quotes. :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
We are here for you Michael and will always love you whatever happens.
'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'
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Offline trustno1

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Re: TIAI 11/19

  • on: November 19, 2010, 06:40:12 PM
Beautiful quote Sarahli
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In a world filled with despair, we must still dare to dream.  And in a world filled with distrust, we must still dare to believe.

Offline PureLove

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Re: TIAI 11/19

  • on: November 19, 2010, 10:50:57 PM
I'm not a Christian but I like to read the passages from other Religions' Books. It just makes it harder for me because of the language barrier. I wouldn't expect Michael to give the quotes from Koran or Torah or anything else. He probably read all of the religious books but of course he's a JW and he knows the Bible the most. And nobody needs to be religious to get the message through these Bible passages. Actually does it really matter from which book or where the message is coming from, since you understand what the message is?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline tylerjo608

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Re: TIAI 11/19

  • on: November 19, 2010, 11:16:29 PM
Navbl.......I support you and say "amen".  You may get grief from others, but not from me.  Your analogy of the lamp is perfect and seems very fitting to what Michael (and/or) TS) may be directing us to.  By reading the Bible, maybe more people will get "plugged in" and see things that they never did before.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

 

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