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navibl

Re: TIAI 11/18
November 19, 2010, 01:49:45 AM
Quote from: "bec"
Quote from: "navibl"
Quote from: "Gema"
Quote from: "navibl"
Those who believe in nothing by default  are drawn into evil because in the absence of no thought, Satan has a place to play, because he does  roam the earth seeking  whom he may devour regardless of belief in him or not.

I strongly disagree with your quote above. I do not believe and I am not drawn into evil. I believe in human actions and care.

I do not believe in any of them. God/Satan goes hand in hand. "Good" vs "evil".
If I don´t believe in God how can I possible believe in Satan?  Makes no sense.

There is no such thing as Satan, is people with mental problems who creates hell on earth. Rewiring is essential, but from the core.

Quote
IT REALLY IS ALL FOR LOVE!!!!  And I love each and every one of you regardless of what you believe!! We are all God’s children regardless of belief in him or not!!

By reading your post, it looks to me that LOVE would mean to convert?  ;) nah!

People should love each other for the sake of it, not to win "heaven", not to be "safe" from evil or the end of the world. That´s pure conditioning and black mailing.

I love you because I chose to do so, not because a book or faith or a concept tells me to do so. That´s slavery.


hmmmm...OK so if there is not good or evil then there is no need for love either..what is love?  I could hate you and do just as well right?  or just simply ingnor the fact that you even exist, because  don't believe in you!!  Is there a judicidal system were you come from?  I hope not, because if you break the law/evil you will go to prison regardless of believeing in it or not.

No, it's not in your survival interest to hate anyone. It's a evolutionary success trait to be popular and have many friends. Well liked individuals that are accepted into a group will be able to share the resources obtained by the group instead of fending for themselves. The well liked and popular people are more likely to live longer, stay healthy, and have more babies thus giving birth to more people who are likely to be popular too.

Beyond that there is a moral code that has existed since mankind began to live in urban city groups of behavior that is and is not tolerated in civilized society. Anarchy never works. Though shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, are not original inventions of Moses's 10 commandments, they are ancient common laws.

Beyond that there's a certain ethics in which you are taught starting with your parents, your teachers, your peers, later your employers, and the world around you, we never stop learning this lesson. Ways to behave, say please and thank you, don't be selfish, consider other people's feelings, play fair, don't hit, always ask permission, don't be late, return phone calls, pay your bills, etc... religion is not alone in teaching people the right way to live in peace with each other.


Moses didn't create the 10 commandments, and they are irrelevant in the lack of belief in God, because one of the commandements says thou shalt have no other Gods before me. So we can toss those out!!
And I would have to say that in this world today the moral code has been tossed out as well. My son came back from Iraq last year and after cleaning up his best friends brains off the ground, I think the moral code was somehow overlooked. So if there is no good and evil then there are no consequences of the actions of such, I would just figure whoever has the biggest guns wins! Seems our exsistance is doomed. We are on the verge of Nuclear war...One had better hope there is a God because there will be no nature and nothing to evolve. Just look around and listen to the news.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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bec

Re: TIAI 11/18
November 19, 2010, 01:59:48 AM
Well that's true navibl but religion won't save mankind. Only mankind can save mankind. How fortunate we are that MJ is using his death hoax to give mankind a little shove in that direction.
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navibl

Re: TIAI 11/18
November 19, 2010, 02:48:08 AM
Quote from: "bec"
Well that's true navibl but religion won't save mankind. Only mankind can save mankind. How fortunate we are that MJ is using his death hoax to give mankind a little shove in that direction.

No religion certainly can not save mankind, but God's son Jesus Christ can.  Christ wasn't about religion.  Michael lives his life to be like Jesus as he said many times.  I think since Michael reads his bible and is aware of what is about to take place, he hopes we come to an understanding of what will save mankind.  How can mankind save ourselves if we are the very ones destroying oursleves?  If we could save ourselves I would imagine we would have already done so.  We are not progressing we are regressing ....What would be the deciding factor on when it is time to step in a save US!!  I somehow believe if that is that case we are HOPELESS
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trublu

Re: TIAI 11/18
November 19, 2010, 04:28:11 AM
Quote from: "navibl"
Quote from: "trublu"
Quote from: "navibl"
Those who believe in nothing by default  are drawn into evil because in the absence of no thought, Satan has a place to play, because he does  roam the earth seeking  whom he may devour regardless of belief in him or not.

When you believe in nothing what do you mean? Nothing as in God? I believe in evolution and nature. I am a kind person who tries my very best to help people. Am I drawn into Evil? I'm finding it difficult to understand maybe because of the language. If you could explain I would be very grateful. Thanks.



I guess believing in nature and evolution is believing in something, there just doesn't seem to be much substance or hope! For the poor unfortunate people who nature has not been so good to, and have evolved into pain and desease and poverty and lack, war and destruction. I guess they have nothing to really look forward to in life, just a mere pittful exsistance, because when they die they go from being helpless and without to rotting in the ground. I don't really think I could get through the day with that belief. I would want to put an end to it all if I had no hope of a restored resurrected body that would live in divine glory with my loving heavenly creator for enternity. Maybe that is why thousands of people commit suicide each day!!! No hope of a better life! Or would I come back as a frog!! Just need to understand where I am evolving to!! How sad! I prefer a choice of Good and Evil, to not have that choice is true slavery!!! That is why God gave us that choice, he didn't create slaves.  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Hmm I see your point. I do. But on the flip side, why would God allow these people to be in this awful situation? Doesn't seem very fair. Especially as if you say these people believe in him. Also, I don't think being Ateheist makes people unhappy or without hope, it allows one to live this life to the full. I have said previously I am not an atheist, I am agnostic, but I will never conform to a religion.As ar as I'm concenred as previously stated, religion and spiritually are different. Religion divides and gives people a reason for war. Also, just because religion might give people a reason to live and hope (which is great) it doesn't make it true. As far as I am concerned, there are hundreds of religions and how are we to know which is true? For the most part, people chose their religion because of the part of the world they are born into and the cuture of their country or family.
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curls

Re: TIAI 11/18
November 19, 2010, 04:38:51 AM
Maybe this would be a good point to take a look at what MJ wrote about God in 'Dancing the Dream':

God

It's strange that God doesn't mind expressing Himself/Herself in all the religions of the world,
while people still cling to the notion that their way is the only right way. Whatever you try to say
about God, someone will take offense, even if you say everyone's love of God is right for them.
For me the form God takes is not the most important thing. What's most important is the
essence. My songs and dances are outlines for Him to come in and fill. I hold out the form. She
puts in the sweetness.
I've looked up at the night sky and beheld the stars so intimately close, it was as if my
grandmother had made them for me. "How rich, how sumptuous," I thought. In that moment I
saw God in His creation. I could as easily have seen Her in the beauty of a rainbow, the grace of
a deer bounding through a meadow, the truth of a father's kiss. But for me the sweetest contact
with God has no form. I close my eyes, look within, and enter a deep soft silence. The infinity of
God's creation embraces me. We are one.
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Serenitys_Dream

  • Guest
Re: TIAI 11/18
November 19, 2010, 04:39:28 AM
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Quote from: "melody"
I think this is being blown way out of proportion.

Anna asked a question (well, several):

Quote from: "_Anna_"
I will put it this way: if God can make things happen and is managing life's situations, then why did Michael have to suffer like that? Why did he have to be humiliated, ridiculed and have his heart thrown in the dirt when he is innocent? Since the very beginning, why did he have to suffer like that, what did he ever do wrong to have God put such weight on his shoulders?

Admittedly, they may have been rhetorical ones but the point is that TS answered her query by redirecting to Job, an upright and righteous man who has done nothing wrong yet went through humiliation and ridicule—all according to "God's" plan. "God" allowed "Satan" to bring all sorts of calamities, suffering, and adversity into his life to test his character and faith. From what I've read, "God" deliberately allows for adversity  in order to shape his believers into the people he wants/needs them to be.

I'm not a religious person either, but I have read the literature (still in the process of finishing it actually). Reading a book doesn't automatically make you an adherent of any religion. Becoming part of a religion is a conscious choice.  If you reassure yourself why you believe (or don't believe) what you do, I don't see how reading the bible (or TS' redirects) could unwillingly brainwash you.

Mind-control is a legitimate and understandable concern. The more I read your posts, however, the more I see a classic case of prejudice. To use you as an example Anna, you're allowing an individual's interpretation of a book (and how they applied that interpretation) to define your opinion of the book, a book that you have no intention of personally acquainting yourself with first-hand, yet you still have formulated an opinion about it without getting to know it. This same prejudice, to this day, has people believing that Michael is a pedophile. They have no intention of acquainting themselves with Michael's true character nor, more importantly, what actually happened in 1993 and 2005. They flat out refuse to get to know Michael or familiarize themselves with the settlement in 1993 and the 2005 court case, and instead rely on the media's interpretation of what happened, the media's interpretation of Michael.

And I say all this, not to imply that you need to read the bible, but to say that you shouldn't let your personal prejudices hinder you from seeing what's actually being said; don't let the source of the information throw you off and more importantly don't let anyone elses' interpretations (but your own) define your reality.

Quote from: "_Anna_"
Quote from: "Sarahli"
And what if the Bible is also Michael's message?
It could be, I don't know, only he knows.. But now, do you think Michael would try to express himself through the Bible? why would he try to push his beliefs on people?

Well, to put myself in Michael's shoes, he seems to have a true and genuine concern for people; if he wholeheartedly believed the bible, why wouldn't he warn those he loved?
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Serenitys_Dream

  • Guest
Re: TIAI 11/18
November 19, 2010, 04:40:05 AM
Quote from: "_Anna_"
Quote from: "lilwendy"
There IS a message.  What do we believe that message is?  If we believe TS, he has told us already that MJ's plan is to turn the NWO upside down, that we are in critical times (end of the world), that MJ reads his Bible daily, etc.  

can you please tell me where can I see with my eyes Michael stating he reads Bible daily? I just want to see with my eyes. Because I've read this sentence about Michael reading the Bible daily and who said that was Ian Halperin.If you know what I mean.

As long as I don't see Michael saying with his own mouth "I read Bible daily", I don't believe it. I know it might sound harsh but it's how I think. I don't believe anybody who makes statements about him. Only he can know what he does inside his home.And I've never seen Michael with my own eyes saying he reads the Bible daily.Isn't it like this- to not believe anything you hear or see, and just because it's printed in black ink doesn't make it the gospel.

"When you hear it from my mouth, then you can believe it"- Michael

Michael Jackson

On studying the Bible: 1976 "Black Stars" Magazine interview
"Each day I take time out to study the Bible, no matter where I am. The teachings of the Bible have added a new dimension to my life. It, somehow, makes me whole."

1979 Ebony Magazine
"I believe in the Bible and I try to follow the Bible. I know I’m an imperfect person… I’m not making myself an angel because I’m not an angel and I’m not a devil either. I try to be the best I can and I try to do what I think is right. It’s that simple…I don’t just pray at night. I pray at different times during the day. Whenever I see something beautiful, I say, "Oh, God, that’s beautiful." I say little prayers like that all through the day."

2003 60 Minutes TV interview with Ed Bradley
"I will never stop helping and loving people the way Jesus said to. He said "Continue to love. Always love. Remember children. Imitate the children." Not childish, but childlike."

2005 At Large with Geraldo Rivera TV Interview
"Caring. And reading the Bible, learning about God, Jesus, love. He said, 'Bring on the children', 'Imitate the children', 'Be like the children' and 'Take care of others.' Take care of old people. And we were raised with those values. Those are very important values and my family and I we were raised with those values and they continue strong in us today."

"It's important to love your neighbors.  I truly think it comes from my mother and God. The way we were raised. The values my mother instilled in us in youth. She was always with the Bible teaching us - we’d go to service all the time. Four times a week, and I’m so glad we did that because those values are very important. I don’t know if I could have done as well without them."

"I try to be kind and generous and to give to people and to do what I think God wants me to do. Sometimes I pray and say "where do you want me to go next, God? What do you want me to do from here?" I’ve always been very spiritual in that way. It’s nothing new.  I always have been."

Time Magazine
Seth Riggs, a vocal teacher who worked with Michael for two hours a day, 5 or 6 days a week while Michael was recording Thriller and also on subsequent projects, commented on Michael's character in a Time Magazine article.  "Michael is a very special man. He would come in for his lesson and sit down and we would have a prayer and then read the Bible and then have another prayer and start to work.  That's the way he liked to begin his day.  Can you imagine a performer as big as Michael Jackson turning around in a lesson and discussing how wonderful God has been to him and how much he loves God?"
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Michael Jackson Bodyguards' Q&A:
06/17/2010
Among the tidbits shared by the bodyguards? Michael Jackson cooked home-made meals for his kids, owned a chocolate lab named Kenya, read the Bible daily, used his zoo as a pick-up line, loved Subway, and even had his own Facebook account.
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Did Michael Jackson read the bible?
Yes, Michael Jackson was very well read on the Bible and could quote scripture from memory.
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Re: TIAI 11/18
November 19, 2010, 04:41:47 AM
Navibl:

I think it's very wrong to suggest those who do not have a religious faith are leading empty lives and are by default "drawn to the devil". That kind of talk incites hatred on both sides.  I am not religious but I have always lived my life the way I think is right, to be a good, honest, compassionate person who would help anyone in need and who treasures their children and tries to instill the same moral values in them.  I think navibl you said it all when you said you couldn't get through the day knowing there was nothing after this life but to rot in the ground, that's what religion is for many people it's a security blanket of sorts, it makes it easier to get through the day if you believe you were put here for a purpose.  That's entirely your choice to believe that but to suggest those who don't are misguided or desolate is plain wrong.  I've said before it's pointless to get into arguments about religion but when someone says something so irresponsible I won't just ignore it. As Trublu pointed out there are so many religions and how can you say yours is the right one? You can't, anyone who has a religious belief no matter what it is believes theirs is the right one.  So much suffering in the world is caused by this very argument.  I think the least we can do is try not to judge each other in the same way.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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In a world filled with despair, we must still dare to dream.  And in a world filled with distrust, we must still dare to believe.

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diggyon

Re: TIAI 11/18
November 19, 2010, 04:47:43 AM
Hi Im_convincedmjalive,
I really love your post. I read it with tears in my eyes. I guess MJ suffered a lot in his life. this is God's wish. God knows us all. And he also knows how we think. This suffering Mj has been through is the reason why he is doing all this. He loves us all, yyou and me and everyone else. My question is: if he hasen't been through all this would he have cared about exposing the Illuminati or the NWO?? I doubt!!!!!!!!!
So may be this is God's plan. You can never feel someone elses pain  unless you have suffered from your own pains. Peace
We all remember Moses. He was living in a great palace. But he never forgot God's words. and yes, he suffered a lot. So may God give us the courage and the support to defeat our enemies. Amen
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Together we are strong

You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.
Abraham Lincoln

Thank you Michael for letting me discover the truth!

I lost the bet, Sarahli won it! ! ! loool


Serenitys_Dream

  • Guest
Re: TIAI 11/18
November 19, 2010, 05:50:52 AM
Never mind I am going to bed it's 4am. These 2 threads and 2 forums are confusing me :lol:
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Sarahli

Re: TIAI 11/18
November 19, 2010, 06:00:46 AM
There are very good people amongst the non-believers, this is not the point. The point is that they knowingly choose to not believe and to not follow God's commands. The Paradise God promises is for the believers, those who ackowledge Him and His messages. It is not only a question of being good or bad, it is about Faith in the Creator and His absolute Authority. We are here for that specific reason. So, if it happens that all this is for real then the non-believers will just have to face the consequences of their rejection of God's message. We cannot convince the people and certainly not that way. Jesus performed miracles and people still did not believe... sometimes it is just the way it is.

Our God is one and the same despite the different religions and this is what should unite us.

When you are true believer in God you cannot skip that subject, this is a part of yourself hence I presume that TS will still redirect to the Bible  :D
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We are here for you Michael and will always love you whatever happens.
'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'
"You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them."

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MissG

Re: TIAI 11/18
November 19, 2010, 06:22:59 AM
Quote from: "navibl"
Quote from: "Gema"
Quote from: "navibl"
Those who believe in nothing by default  are drawn into evil because in the absence of no thought, Satan has a place to play, because he does  roam the earth seeking  whom he may devour regardless of belief in him or not.

I strongly disagree with your quote above. I do not believe and I am not drawn into evil. I believe in human actions and care.

I do not believe in any of them. God/Satan goes hand in hand. "Good" vs "evil".
If I don´t believe in God how can I possible believe in Satan?  Makes no sense.

There is no such thing as Satan, is people with mental problems who creates hell on earth. Rewiring is essential, but from the core.

Quote
IT REALLY IS ALL FOR LOVE!!!!  And I love each and every one of you regardless of what you believe!! We are all God’s children regardless of belief in him or not!!

By reading your post, it looks to me that LOVE would mean to convert?  ;) nah!

People should love each other for the sake of it, not to win "heaven", not to be "safe" from evil or the end of the world. That´s pure conditioning and black mailing.

I love you because I chose to do so, not because a book or faith or a concept tells me to do so. That´s slavery.


hmmmm...OK so if there is not good or evil then there is no need for love either..what is love?  I could hate you and do just as well right?  or just simply ingnor the fact that you even exist, because  don't believe in you!!  Is there a judicidal system were you come from?  I hope not, because if you break the law/evil you will go to prison regardless of believeing in it or not.


Hmmmm, what?
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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("Minkin güerveeeee")
Michael pls come back


"Why a four-year-old child could understand this hoax. Run out and find me a four-year-old child. I can't make head nor tail out of it"

*

MissG

Re: TIAI 11/18
November 19, 2010, 06:32:30 AM
Quote from: "trustno1"
Navibl:

I think it's very wrong to suggest those who do not have a religious faith are leading empty lives and are by default "drawn to the devil". That kind of talk incites hatred on both sides.  I am not religious but I have always lived my life the way I think is right, to be a good, honest, compassionate person who would help anyone in need and who treasures their children and tries to instill the same moral values in them.  I think navibl you said it all when you said you couldn't get through the day knowing there was nothing after this life but to rot in the ground, that's what religion is for many people it's a security blanket of sorts, it makes it easier to get through the day if you believe you were put here for a purpose.  That's entirely your choice to believe that but to suggest those who don't are misguided or desolate is plain wrong.  I've said before it's pointless to get into arguments about religion but when someone says something so irresponsible I won't just ignore it. As Trublu pointed out there are so many religions and how can you say yours is the right one? You can't, anyone who has a religious belief no matter what it is believes theirs is the right one.  So much suffering in the world is caused by this very argument.  I think the least we can do is try not to judge each other in the same way.

Can I say here...Aaaaaamén?  :lol:
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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("Minkin güerveeeee")
Michael pls come back


"Why a four-year-old child could understand this hoax. Run out and find me a four-year-old child. I can't make head nor tail out of it"

*

MissG

Re: TIAI 11/18
November 19, 2010, 06:43:32 AM
I see no harm in TS´s redirections  :)  I never read Biblic passages on this level before and I enjoy some of them. It is a mix of morals, ethics and psychology that I perceive as the standard living value during those years. Some passages are using the profesy of God as something to fear, but I can also see that may be that was the only way to approach people in order to avoid crime.
Imo, It´s a book to controll de masses and live accordingly within society.

ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'-->Authority figure

TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'-->"you" are not holly and must obey.

THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain
.'-->fear, respecting the authority?

FOUR: 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
'-->one happy holiday!

FIVE: 'Honor your father and your mother.'-->respect!

SIX: 'You shall not murder.'-->common sense!avoiding crime!

SEVEN: 'You shall not commit adultery.'-->family unity values!

EIGHT: 'You shall not steal
.'-->common sense again avoiding crime!

NINE: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.'
-->morals and truth!

TEN: 'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's
.' -->again avoiding crime to live in peace!
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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("Minkin güerveeeee")
Michael pls come back


"Why a four-year-old child could understand this hoax. Run out and find me a four-year-old child. I can't make head nor tail out of it"

*

navibl

Re: TIAI 11/18
November 19, 2010, 01:03:27 PM
Quote from: "trustno1"
Navibl:

I think it's very wrong to suggest those who do not have a religious faith are leading empty lives and are by default "drawn to the devil". That kind of talk incites hatred on both sides.  I am not religious but I have always lived my life the way I think is right, to be a good, honest, compassionate person who would help anyone in need and who treasures their children and tries to instill the same moral values in them.  I think navibl you said it all when you said you couldn't get through the day knowing there was nothing after this life but to rot in the ground, that's what religion is for many people it's a security blanket of sorts, it makes it easier to get through the day if you believe you were put here for a purpose.  That's entirely your choice to believe that but to suggest those who don't are misguided or desolate is plain wrong.  I've said before it's pointless to get into arguments about religion but when someone says something so irresponsible I won't just ignore it. As Trublu pointed out there are so many religions and how can you say yours is the right one? You can't, anyone who has a religious belief no matter what it is believes theirs is the right one.  So much suffering in the world is caused by this very argument.  I think the least we can do is try not to judge each other in the same way.


Obiviously you have paid no attenton to everything I have said but rather picked out what suited your opinion, to make your point, just as the media has done Michael for years.  This is what causes suffering in the world, lack of attention to the important things.  I refuse to argue over religion beliefs or the lack therefore, because I am not a religious person, but then you would know that if you had paid attention.  This is the last that I will have to say on this issue because, I will not debate with you my personal convictions in a forum thread that is designed to support Michael Joe Jackson and his spritiual belief and his purpose and the mission he has worked his whole life to achieve.  
I would hope with you being the compassionate person that you are and all, that you wouldn’t walk into someone’s home and find fault with their spiritual convictions and tell them how irresponsible they are for discussing what is on their heart.  Because this particular thread is our living room for loving and supporting what Michael has stated that he believes?  

 If you chose to put your faith in yourself alone that is your choice.  I personally am not self sustaining and don’t really know of any other human being that is.  Everyone looks to someone or something to sustain them, label and call it what you like, that is your opinion and like the saying is everyone has one and is entitled to it, so the name calling is out of line. We are here to Love and support one another because our children are suffering and dying and people are losing their lives in war and humanity has to have hope and faith in something or what is the point in life period. I personally chose to put my faith in something that will sustain me eternally.  Truth is not relevant so in the end as Michael said the Truth will prevail.  It is our job to find and know what it is.  Because good and evil forces are at war!
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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