[mjj_fan]

To start with propofol . its a drug used in mini operations and its mode of action is very short ,  its used to  maintain during  anasthesia , and for that matter it should run in a drip otherwise the patient would wake up just in the middle of any procedure and that what  happened  actually the patient got up or starting complaining of pain anyways  it should be administered very slowly otherwise cardiac and respiratory arrest occurs  
  now here is the hole in the story

  1. to run it in a drip you need a cannula or open I.v line as dr klein said mj had one in his arm , but to all people who had the experience of having a cannula  must know that its very painful all the way , and it should be changed after every 3rd day , and each time you cant place it on the same site ,and iv lines are placed not over joint preferably so that patient can move joints without pain and by saying he was chronic addict to it i dont think so because there are not so many places to have heplock in veins you have to switch the site  

   now for those who have watch tii , did u notice any open iv in any scene? remember the photo where he was wearing the red jacket and holding a lollipop ?  his  full arm was exposed  and by the way while you are having cannula / heplock Iv its never easy to bend the arm or leg how one can dance while having it in his vein?
 to get out of anasthesia you have to give oxygen and like mj chef said she saw dr murray bringing the cylinders like evey morning but on 25th he didnt come downstairs at 10 and that was strange to her , thats what she said in larry king live so it means he gave that drug to mj like everynite .....
2. dr klein claim that it exhaled out and put dr murray on sleep another stupid comment from him , it leaves the body through urine
 
3, to understand acute intoxication means that a very letheal dose was given at once because its not something which stays in body like other drugs

4. how come janet didnt know he was using it for example if he did , as it was told by dr klein to the media that i warned him about him when he used it during his history tour
   
 5, when its so obvious  that the cause of death is acute intoxication how dr murray will justify himself ? will he say that drug ampule  provided to him was contaminated by bacteria  thats why this reaction happened ? or drug dose on propofol ampule  was mistakenly labelled as wrong dose /underdose ? mj ran it fast or did it by himself?  or some one came in and ran it fast ??
  6.the cocktail od drugs given that nite was like a mimi operation you know . because anti anxiety and midazolam  are drugs given to keep patient relax to reduce his anxiety   for mj who was so conscious about his health i heard  he avoid alcohol and was non smoker besides he had never done something illegal in his life    can we expect him to do all this  ???  
       i m really confused by all this story but  there is no way some one else is to blame for cause of death( if mj has gone) and i dont know why family is not accusing him of any charge because ther is no way to justify that murray is innocent or did i miss anything is ther someone from the family otherthan  latoya to stand against dr murray
    well i wrote what i know about it  may be there are something i  dont know  lets see how and when truth will prevail lets hope for best !!
                                                                 'God bless you all

[Serenitys_Dream]

What is Propofol?
Propofol (Diprivan) is a short-acting, intravenously administered hypnotic agent. Its uses include the induction and maintenance of general anaesthesia, sedation for mechanically ventilated adults, and procedural sedation. propofol is also commonly used in veterinary medicine. Propofol is approved for use in more than 50 countries, and generic versions are available.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propofol

Contraindications and Interactions with Propofol
The respiratory effects of propofol are potentate by other respiratory depressants, including benzodiazepines.

Other Drugs Mentioned in this Case
The coroner’s report stated that the presence of the drug benzodiazepine contributed to Jackson’s death, though coroners also found diazepine and ephedrine in his system. (Just a note: diazepine is the basis of the benzodiazepine family of compounds http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diazepine).
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 1003209000

Dr Murray said that on the morning of Jackson’s death he had given him valium (aka diazepam) at 1.30am and then injected lorazepam intravenously at 2am. An hour later Jackson was still awake and Dr Murray gave him midazolam. At around 10.40am Jackson reportedly demanded to be given propofol. Dr Murray said that he gave a reduced dosage after trying to induce sleep with other drugs.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Music/0 ... index.html

From a List of Benzodiazepines
Diazepam
Lorazepam
Midazolam
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_benzodiazepines

All of the drugs that Dr. Murray claims to have administered to Michael Jackson ARE benzodiazepines. Would a trained cardiologist do this knowing that "The respiratory effects of propofol are potentate by other respiratory depressants, including benzodiazepines."? So administering propofol with any one of the 3 drugs that were given can cause someone to stop breathing, leading to their heart stopping and their death. This makes absolutely no sense that a trained cardiologist would administer propofol knowing he already administered 3 benzodiazepines.

[Serenitys_Dream]

Recalls lots of propofol due to contamination. Teva Pharmaceuticals USA issues a voluntary user-level nationwide recall of Propofol Injectable Emulsion  FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE - July 16, 2009

Teva Pharmaceuticals USA is initiating a voluntary recall of Propofol Injectable Emulsion 10 mg/mL 100 mL vials, lot numbers 31305429B and 31305430B. The product lots identified are being recalled due to the presence of elevated endotoxin levels in some vials within these lot numbers. Teva has been notified of 41 propofol-treated patients who experienced post-operative fever, chills and other flu-like symptoms. Based on available information it appears that all febrile or flu-like reactions were self-limiting with spontaneous resolution. Adverse health effects, such as fever, chills, or rigors, are possible with exposure to product with elevated levels of endotoxins. Serious adverse effects, such as disseminated intravascular coagulopathy, acute respiratory distress syndrome, shock, and death, are possible with exposure to product with high endotoxin levels. For use as an anaesthetic agent, propofol should be used only by professionals trained in the administration of general anaesthesia. For sedation of intubated, mechanically ventilated patients in the Intensive Care Unit, propofol should be administered only by persons skilled in the management of critically ill patients. Customers who have Propofol lots 31305429B and 31305430B in their possession are instructed to cease using the product and return it to their distributor. Teva Pharmaceuticals USA is voluntarily recalling the aforementioned lots. FDA and CDC have been apprised of this action.
http://www.fda.gov/safety/recalls/ucm172474.htm

Teva: Propofol found in Michael Jackson home wasn't from recalled lot
By Yoram Gabison
Teva recalled 57,000 bottles of injectable Propofol early this week, after two lots at Teva's Irvine, California plant were found to be contaminated with Endotoxin bacteria.
"Teva has voluntarily recalled two lots of Propofol after several patients who received the injections were found to have contracted fever - a side affect that has been known for years.
Teva confirms it has been approached by the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration about their ongoing investigation. The DEA asked for information regarding a specific bottle in a specific lot found in Jackson's home. The lot numbers found in his home are not those that Teva recalled. There is no relation between the two incidents, and Teva takes a grave view of any attempt to connect them."
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1100608.html

This story seems awfully convenient and doesn’t quite ring true to me could it be a Plan B, just in case the public didn't buy the overdose story? Then the story could have been, Michael Jackson died from tainted propofol? It is especially fishy after I discovered the following news article regarding the propofol supposedly found in Michael Jackson’s home.

Powerful Anesthetic Diprivan Found in Michael Jackson's Home
July 04, 2009 by Patricia Sheasley Sicilia
The DEA is working with local authorities in an investigation of at least five of Jackson's doctors. Many of Jackson's prescriptions were in false names, and others were unlabelled, sources told the LA Times. None of the bottles of Diprivan were labelled.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/articl ... tml?cat=49

So we have a company that manufactures propofol for use in the United States. Michael Jackson supposedly dies after being administered propofol in combination with other prescription medications. Not long after this happens, this company recalls batches of propofol due to contamination. We are then assured that Michael Jackson did not receive tainted propofol because the bottles found at his home did not have the recalled batch numbers on their labels. Except, the bottles found at Michael Jackson's home had NO LABELS so no one knows which batches these bottles of propofol are from. No one asks this question, so no one answers it either.

You can read more about my investigation in to this at my blog if you are interested, there are 3 Parts.
http://http://answerssought.blogspot.com/2009/11/propofol-murder-plot-death-hoax-part-1.html

[Alem (Thetruth)]

Mixing Propofol with benzodiazepines is normal to maxime the "effect", however he might have been given too much benzodiazepines since it already existed in his blood system. But the coroner stated that his Michael died due to acute intoxication of propofol which would mean that he was given too much Propofol and not too much benzodiazepines.

[mjj_fan]

thats true alem . as  midazolam and anxiolytics are give as premedication before anasethesia  and propofol is used to induce and maintainance of anastheisa , midazolam half life is very short its so with propofol its excreted out of system as long as my memory serves me rights midazolam is short acting wirh half life of 2 hrs

[Serenitys_Dream]

Mixing Propofol with benzodiazepines is normal to maxime the "effect", however he might have been given too much benzodiazepines since it already existed in his blood system. But the coroner stated that his Michael died due to acute intoxication of propofol which would mean that he was given too much Propofol and not too much benzodiazepines.

Propofol dosage reported in Michael Jackson case is low, experts say
Dr. Conrad Murray told police he injected 25 milligrams the night the pop star died. Experts say that dose would have little effect on an average patient, and possibly no effect on a regular user.
August 27, 2009|Kimi Yoshino

If Michael Jackson died from lethal levels of the powerful anesthetic propofol, then he must have been injected with much more of the drug than his personal physician reportedly told police he gave the pop star, medical experts said.

According to court records unsealed in Houston on Monday, Dr. Conrad Murray told police that he had been giving Jackson 50 milligrams of propofol each night for six weeks. In a three-hour interview with police two days after Jackson's death, Murray said he had been trying to wean the singer off the anesthetic and, on the day of his death, gave him a combination of other sedatives before succumbing to Jackson's demands for propofol.

Murray then gave Jackson 25 milligrams of propofol, according to the documents. But those amounts -- 25 and 50 milligrams -- are far below the dosage required to anesthetize someone and keep them asleep, several experts said.

"It doesn't make any sense," said Dr. John Dombrowski of the American Society of Anesthesiologists. "I cannot believe that was the number that was given. Such a small amount won't tip anyone over in terms of respiratory depression."

What's more likely, Dombrowski said, is that the numbers in the documents are somehow in error. Murray might not have provided an infusion rate, such as 25 milligrams every few minutes, or police might not have understood the medical terminology, Dombrowski said.

The preliminary toxicology reports cited in the court records said that "lethal levels" of propofol were found in Jackson's blood. Final autopsy and toxicology reports have yet to be released by the Los Angeles County coroner's office.

Murray has said through his attorney that he believes nothing he administered should have led to Jackson's death. His attorney, Ed Chernoff, said Murray answered the detectives' questions truthfully.

The medical experts said that if the propofol dosage were higher and combined with other medications, it could have led to an overdose.

Dr. Scott Engwall, vice chair of anesthesiology at UC Irvine's School of Medicine, said that for an average person without a high tolerance to drugs, 50 milligrams of propofol might be enough to make him or her doze off for five or 10 minutes. Someone like Jackson, who had been using it nightly for six weeks, according to Murray's testimony, might close his eyes briefly -- or it might not work at all, Engwall and other doctors said.

"I think . . . there is some part of this picture we still do not know," Engwall said.
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/aug/27 ... son-drug27

So how does someone die from acute propofol intoxication when they haven't been administered enough of the drug to have any significant effect on the person. If Dr. Murray is lying about the amount of propofol he administered why? He claims he was trying to wean MJ off propofol hence the low dosage. There is something not right about this entire scenario.

[mjj_fan]

thankyou for your inputs but no one is getting my point i guess i was saying ok letrs say he was giving him like everynite , where was the cannula ( the tube inserted in a body to administer in the body) it shold be in the arm if there was an open iv according to dr klien that mj has had it on front of his arm? did anyone notice it

  and second point is if its there in the arm no one can move it dancing is just not possible because it hurts alot u know

[alexa7]

thankyou for your inputs but no one is getting my point i guess i was saying ok letrs say he was giving him like everynite , where was the cannula ( the tube inserted in a body to administer in the body) it shold be in the arm if there was an open iv according to dr klien that mj has had it on front of his arm? did anyone notice it

  and second point is if its there in the arm no one can move it dancing is just not possible because it hurts alot u know

I know exactly what you mean, I looked very carefully at his arms, neck during TII and NO I saw no signs of injection sites or iv (except perhaps in the part where he wears the loose gold pants and slips his jacket down from his shoulders at one point, I didn't see it clearly and can't go again as they have stopped TII where I live, but I think there was some kind of red mark/scarring or something on his upper arm but NO WAY what you would expect to see).  The paramedics also apparently said they could find no vein that hadn't collapsed to enable them to put in an IV and so they had to put it in behind his knee, THIS MAKES NO SENSE.  Also we have the stories about "riddled with injection marks" but then we have Klein saying he saw none and us with our own eyes not seeing any visible ones in TII.  The whole drug addict thing seems so full of contradictions.  I don't have any issue with Michael having an addiction to pain medication frankly I wouldn't blame him one bit, BUT THE STORIES SIMPLY DO NOT ADD UP.  Too many "unknowns" appeared shortly after the 25th like Susan Etok saying he had asked her for propofol - WTF- who is this woman??? I read on another site that she had been discredited in any case (will post if I can find it).  THE STORIES JUST DON'T ADD UP.  I am so confused AND NOT HAPPY about any of this (and Murray is driving me CRAZY right now too  :evil:  :evil:  :evil:  :roll:  :roll:  :roll: )

[Alem (Thetruth)]

Mixing Propofol with benzodiazepines is normal to maxime the "effect", however he might have been given too much benzodiazepines since it already existed in his blood system. But the coroner stated that his Michael died due to acute intoxication of propofol which would mean that he was given too much Propofol and not too much benzodiazepines.

Propofol dosage reported in Michael Jackson case is low, experts say
Dr. Conrad Murray told police he injected 25 milligrams the night the pop star died. Experts say that dose would have little effect on an average patient, and possibly no effect on a regular user.
August 27, 2009|Kimi Yoshino

If Michael Jackson died from lethal levels of the powerful anesthetic propofol, then he must have been injected with much more of the drug than his personal physician reportedly told police he gave the pop star, medical experts said.

According to court records unsealed in Houston on Monday, Dr. Conrad Murray told police that he had been giving Jackson 50 milligrams of propofol each night for six weeks. In a three-hour interview with police two days after Jackson's death, Murray said he had been trying to wean the singer off the anesthetic and, on the day of his death, gave him a combination of other sedatives before succumbing to Jackson's demands for propofol.

Murray then gave Jackson 25 milligrams of propofol, according to the documents. But those amounts -- 25 and 50 milligrams -- are far below the dosage required to anesthetize someone and keep them asleep, several experts said.

"It doesn't make any sense," said Dr. John Dombrowski of the American Society of Anesthesiologists. "I cannot believe that was the number that was given. Such a small amount won't tip anyone over in terms of respiratory depression."

What's more likely, Dombrowski said, is that the numbers in the documents are somehow in error. Murray might not have provided an infusion rate, such as 25 milligrams every few minutes, or police might not have understood the medical terminology, Dombrowski said.

The preliminary toxicology reports cited in the court records said that "lethal levels" of propofol were found in Jackson's blood. Final autopsy and toxicology reports have yet to be released by the Los Angeles County coroner's office.

Murray has said through his attorney that he believes nothing he administered should have led to Jackson's death. His attorney, Ed Chernoff, said Murray answered the detectives' questions truthfully.

The medical experts said that if the propofol dosage were higher and combined with other medications, it could have led to an overdose.

Dr. Scott Engwall, vice chair of anesthesiology at UC Irvine's School of Medicine, said that for an average person without a high tolerance to drugs, 50 milligrams of propofol might be enough to make him or her doze off for five or 10 minutes. Someone like Jackson, who had been using it nightly for six weeks, according to Murray's testimony, might close his eyes briefly -- or it might not work at all, Engwall and other doctors said.

"I think . . . there is some part of this picture we still do not know," Engwall said.
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/aug/27 ... son-drug27

So how does someone die from acute propofol intoxication when they haven't been administered enough of the drug to have any significant effect on the person. If Dr. Murray is lying about the amount of propofol he administered why? He claims he was trying to wean MJ off propofol hence the low dosage. There is something not right about this entire scenario.

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=137
In this post I bring up everything this article has to say. Very contradicting indeed!

[Alem (Thetruth)]

thankyou for your inputs but no one is getting my point i guess i was saying ok letrs say he was giving him like everynite , where was the cannula ( the tube inserted in a body to administer in the body) it shold be in the arm if there was an open iv according to dr klien that mj has had it on front of his arm? did anyone notice it

  and second point is if its there in the arm no one can move it dancing is just not possible because it hurts alot u know

Didint Dr.Klein state that Michael wasnt using Propofol via IV, but he was using some sort of meth patches. I mean this is Dr. Klein we are talking about.....

[mjj_fan]

@ alem meth patch ? i m not aware of this term . propofol is given only and only in a drip with extreme caution the drip should run slowly i mean its not like normal running drip you have to adjust it so that specific number of  nt of drops must admininstred at a given time

[teensy]

thankyou for your inputs but no one is getting my point i guess i was saying ok letrs say he was giving him like everynite , where was the cannula ( the tube inserted in a body to administer in the body) it shold be in the arm if there was an open iv according to dr klien that mj has had it on front of his arm? did anyone notice it

  and second point is if its there in the arm no one can move it dancing is just not possible because it hurts alot u know

I remember when I had an IV placed in my hand, they told me not to move it. To keep it as still as possible. It would be uncomfortable to have something like that in your limb. Then take into account vigorous dancing, it would be excurciating and likely cause damaged.

Thanks for all the information everyone! :D

[mjj_fan]

meth patch is methyl phenidate  which is different catagory of drug used for sleep disorder but i havent heard dr klein saying mj used it  infact i read he said i warn micheal of propofol when he used it during history tour

[lisap27]

thankyou for your inputs but no one is getting my point i guess i was saying ok letrs say he was giving him like everynite , where was the cannula ( the tube inserted in a body to administer in the body) it shold be in the arm if there was an open iv according to dr klien that mj has had it on front of his arm? did anyone notice it

  and second point is if its there in the arm no one can move it dancing is just not possible because it hurts alot u know

I remember when I had an IV placed in my hand, they told me not to move it. To keep it as still as possible. It would be uncomfortable to have something like that in your limb. Then take into account vigorous dancing, it would be excurciating and likely cause damaged.

Thanks for all the information everyone! :D

i've had them in my hands from having babies!! they hurt like hell!! and you bruise badly after it!! or at least i did.. any signs of bruises on MJ's hands!! NOPE!! so that area is ruled out unless he has super skin!!

or i'm the odd 1 out!!  :roll:

[Alem (Thetruth)]

meth patch is methyl phenidate  which is different catagory of drug used for sleep disorder but i havent heard dr klein saying mj used it  infact i read he said i warn micheal of propofol when he used it during history tour

Look at the interview Dr. Klein was giving to TMZ, there he said that Michael would not use IV but he used meth patches. Of course Dr Klein was not there to watch Michael use any of the things but it was his speculation.

[mjj_fan]

i m sick of their  lies  now ,

[MissG]

i had IV on the front of my hand and beside giving a blue mark that lasts days, hurts and u feel sored once is removed. Every move is painful.

I meet patients with IV´s on their thoes, bahind the knees etc and they had it on those places when the veins were too bad on the hands after many days os use. Those patients had severe infections or sickness.

Any medical doc or anestetic expert in the room? :geek:

[mjj_fan]

@ Gem . you are rite when veins are collapsed any prominent vein we ask the staff  to maintain  for iv lines specially for very sick terminal patients but they are Not the first choice to place them  and where no veins are seen  we prefer to perform a venous cut down in those cases but again in serious patients at ICU   i think you might have seen it on dorsum of foot( i.e on the front)_ or at the side of foot  and in children at the head ,other than that in emergency a tube in introduced in the neck if forearm veins are not visible

[lisap27]

@ Gem . you are rite when veins are collapsed any prominent vein we ask the staff  to maintain  for iv lines specially for very sick terminal patients but they are Not the first choice to place them  and where no veins are seen  we prefer to perform a venous cut down in those cases but again in serious patients at ICU   i think you might have seen it on dorsum of foot( i.e on the front)_ or at the side of foot  and in children at the head ,other than that in emergency a tube in introduced in the neck if forearm veins are not visible

little bit different for MJ but my son was 10mths old an had to have one in his head!! it was awful!! he had like a cone pot on the side to cover the drip!!

my point on this.. IV drips are not something to be considered lightly!! i'm a phlebotomist in the UK so i take blood everyday.. dealing with veins.. its not an easy task!! i know taking blood is not the same as putting stuff in but its still using veins!!

and we need a decent vein to take blood.. so administering something in they would have to have a really good vein as surface as we say would just burst and be useless!! and cause bruising!! maybe useless to you guys but makes perfect sence to me!!

and looking at pictures of MJ he had super veins in his arms!! didn't see any marks on TII!!

sorry in my job thats what i look at first on a person!! like a vampire!! lol :)

[mjj_fan]

@ lisa , you wrote  what exactly i wanted to convey  to others thanks for making that easier for me ,thats what i was trying to say maintaining an Iv line aint  like  pricking with a  a needle and thats all,  you cant place the cannula over the same place again n again,
                   sometimes  the blood oozes out and the vein eventually  collapsed one has to be very careful to maintain Iv lines specially in emergency cases

[lisap27]

@ lisa , you wrote  what exactly i wanted to convey  to others thanks for making that easier for me ,thats what i was trying to say maintaining an Iv line aint  like  pricking with a  a needle and thats all,  you cant place the cannula over the same place again n again,
                   sometimes  the blood oozes out and the vein eventually  collapsed one has to be very careful to maintain Iv lines specially in emergency cases

i think to be honest its hard for people to understand unless you do this for a living!! so hopefully we've made some sence here to help others understand!!

p.s surface veins are veins that you can see like bluey purple thin like veins!! they look like good veins you can take blood from or put an IV in!! but in truth they are no good especially if their very thin stringy looking veins!!

i get it all the time patients saying "can't you use this vein" and the answer is NO sorry!!..

[mjj_fan]

Lol !! yeah people say it oftenly here is the veins its a good one bla bla ,

well to be very honest i really get upset everyone is telling a lie.
  the truth will prevail i m just sick of this one liner i was deeply sadden when i read a member saying that he /she flunk her exams ,  all the fake accounts.fake informers   who are bringing false hope to the people dont know how much damage they are causing , even the family why they cant open up and tell the truth so that everyone get out of this crazy ride , why they are keeping things to them selves ,if they cant subtract some one pain why are they adding miseries ,i wish i could l do something to lessen this   distress  . lets hope and pray for the best ! God bless

[Lou]

This propofol story has too many holes... some points I simply don't understand: they say MJ was addicted to it, but how long has he been addicted? Do the reports say the addiction started this year or years ago? I'm asking this because if he was really addicted and if this was an old addiction, one can assume he was injected with anesthetic everyday or almost every day and it should have been very dangerous. How come he survived so long?

On the other hand, if the addiction started recently, before he rented dr Murray, who provided him the injection previously? Is this person being investigated too?

If the addiction started with dr. Murray, who had the idea of giving MJ propofol? Did he suddenly start begging for it?? I know I have too many questions and I might have missed something, but even so, it's hard to believe in all this.

[MissG]

This so called adiction is a lie.

Professional people as you are have made clear how veins work....and I have seen it as well.

Come on! they are selling crap!  :evil:

He did not shoot himself. He was afraid of niddles for heavesn sake  :evil:

[SPAKKLE29FUL]

I dont buy the addiction either ,if he was addicted all  these years someone would have blabbed to the press ,its gotta be part of the hoax and when that BAM happens all will be explained  keep the faith