TIAI October 31

[TheRunningGirl]

The Rich Man and Lazarus

 19"There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
 22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In hell,[c] where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'

 25"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'

 27"He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'

 29"Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'

 30" 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'

 31"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

TS re-direct is a sub-section of one of the "parable" Jesus used when Teaching his Gospel.
Without attempting to interpret the Bible, I see 1 main message in the highlighted text:

The importance of Faith
Unless we believe in the message given to us by those who have proven to be reliable messenger - And TS would fall in this category, he may also be referring to "others" who are here with us on this forum - then we are unlikely to listen or believe in MJ message at all or discover the TRUTH and MJ coming back to tell us his message himself would not change this!
In other words, once somebody has proven to be a TRUSTED informer, we need to have FAITH in their message because they are here to GUIDE US through.

I would also like to add that I was re-reading MJ Beautiful Oxford speech yesterday and there are numerous references to God and the Bible that are totally supporting what TS has been telling us.  
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
It is undeniable that Michael enjoyed giving his message of Love and saw himself as a or "the" "Teacher".

With L.O.V.E

[jacilovesmichael]

I still have a refraining feeling with these too many quotes from the Bible. Not all the people are religious and not all of us relate on it regarding life.

I honestly take these too many religious connections too much.....Don't get me wrong. But I personally think that when someone is religious in an extreme way it's not a good thing. I don't like it. Maybe I should get what? the message, yes, but always from the Bible?

I am not religious, and for me these things are not very...

Hi Anna! I totally can understand and somewhat relate to how you feel. Actually, I used to be a strict Christian but have stepped away from that to study other religions and just learn about it all before I make up my mind. But, either way, I've always viewed the bible as a sort of piece of art. It's hard to explain, but I think there are stories in it that may or may not be true (probably aren't) but the moral of the story remains regardless. I think that the bible is important in this hoax for many reasons, but I know it's NOT to convert everyone to the christian religion. Mike said himself that he studies all religions, but he also reads the bible. Just like all good pieces of literature, the bible can be very inspiring and I think that is what purpose it is serving regarding this hoax. If Mike has been inspired by the bible, then we must respect that. Doesn't mean we have to "believe" in the bible or believe in Jesus or anything like that. We just simply need to respect it. Also, the bible is full of very interesting and entertaining stories for those who simply like to read. And I don't think it should be left out of the quote "just because it's in print doesn't mean it's the gospel", because I believe if there is a gospel, it's been editing beyond recognition and we must explore and study other avenues to find the entire truth. Just my opinon. Hang in there and take the bible references with a grain of salt and open mind, you might be surprised with what you discover. Much love to you, Anna!

[suspicious mind]

ok i am going to put ts in jesus sandles and michaels loafers  for just a minute here.

is it not possible that there are some who follow ts but still do not really understand his message ?
is it not possible that there are some who do not claim to follow him /them  but still understand the message?

perhaps only ts himself can answer this.

[paula-c]

Anything from abroad you can open a closed; heart not even a message that comes from one who returns the death. Parable calls for a conversion of heart. The conversion is promoted by the way as we recognize the deal and share with those most in need.

I do not know, I'm confused  :?

[suspicious mind]

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login


Luke 16:26-31 (King James Version)

 26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

 27Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:

 28For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

 29Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

 30And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

 31And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

ts
have you forgotten about thomas?

[~Souza~]

I think most people will believe Mike when he comes back. Many people are opposing TS because he's just a screen name, despite the evidence he presents. Many fans also think he is not representing Mike, and therefore probably don't read all the evidence provided. If they hear if from Mike himself, they have no choice than to admit that TS indeed is carying out MJ's message. Sad, but that's how it works with most people.

@_Anna_ I am not a religious person either, but I do believe there is more between heaven and earth. TS is providing us with information that is already on the net. When he redirects to a Bible scripture, it is because it contains the information he wants to let us see. Also don't forget that Mike is a religious man and is very familiar with the Bible and apparently he wants us to read these scriptures and think about it. You don't have to be a religious person to understand a Bible scripture and translate it to the world we live in now.

[angel]

Thank you, TS, for this redirect.  Since today is the 31st, it is likely that this is the key verse.  The thing about truth is, no matter if  we believe it or not, agree with it or not, it doesn't change.  I find security and peace in that knowledge, that God is in total control, and His Word is sufficient.  The lyrics to one of my own songs comes to mind:
Let us have a hearing heart
Let us listen to His Word
Let us keep inside what He speaks to us
And be cleansed by what we've heard

Love and blessings to all.

[Sarahli]

What an insightful redirect TS, God bless you. The rich man did not believe until he was brought up into hell. So it means that no matter what people think or believe what is the truth about God they will definitely know in the afterlife. There is no in between on earth, nor you are a believer or a disbeliever. We have to make a choice right now and maybe that this is what Michael is telling us. Think about God because this is a crucial thing. It can also refer to the test. Life is a test and the subject of that test is the belief in God or not. Does it matter if you fail the test? Hmmm...yes.

31And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Some people will just not believe Michael when he comes back. If they don't believe TS they will not be persuaded by Michael even if "back from the dead". Finally we must be prepared as to not be able to convince all the people. The only important thing as I see it is to let the message out. To spread the word and let people decide. Only my opinion of course. God bless you all.  

[Serenitys_Dream]

If you google interpretations of these passages it says this is about materialism; the love of money etc. This is not helping one another especially the less fortunate, being selfish and not following God's laws/teachings as given through Jesus and the prophets and even if someone was resurrected that may not change this selfishness, only we can change ourselves by realizing this and thus be delivered from this 'sin'.

And yes, after reading several sites that all suggest similar things, I have copied and pasted from this one because it is already explained and is easier than me rewriting it in my own words and then linking to the page anyway.

The Rich Man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31)

Profile of the Rich Man (16:19-20)
First, Jesus paints a quick portrait of the rich man, a very, very rich man. Purple dye was extremely expensive, obtained from the shellfish murex. A purple wool mantle was costly. A finely-woven linen tunic was considered the height of luxury. The phrase in the NIV translated "lived in luxury" comes from two words, the Greek verb euphraino, "be glad, enjoy oneself, rejoice, celebrate," and the adverb lampros, "splendidly, sumptuously." Jesus mentions the gate to the rich man's mansion, Greek pulon, " 'gateway, entrance, gate,' especially of the large, impressive gateways at the entrance of temples and places." The rich man doesn't need to work so he feasts like this every day. Jesus pictures a rich man living opulently. The rich man is not named, though he is sometimes called Dives, the Latin word for "rich man."

Profile of the Poor Man (16:20-21)
Jesus contrasts the rich man with a beggar, the poorest of the poor. The beggar's name is Lazarus, the only character in any of Jesus' parables who is given a name. Lazarus is short for Eleazar, which means "He (whom) God helps," perhaps hinting at the man's piety. He is lying at a suitable place for begging, next to the rich man's gate, probably placed there by friends. He is sick, as evidenced by his numerous ulcerated sores. And he is hungry, longing to eat the scraps from the rich man's table, usually reserved for the dogs. Jeremias informs us, "We are not to think of 'that which fell from the rich man's table' as 'crumbs,' but as pieces of bread which the guests dipped in the dish, wiped their hands with, and then threw under the table."

The dogs that lick his sores are not pets. In the First Century Middle East, dogs are considered unclean, wild street dogs that scavenge the garbage, and then nose around the poor man's sores. It is not a picture of comfort but of abject misery.

Abraham's Bosom (16:22)
Jesus pictures angels carrying Lazarus to Abraham. NIV "side" and KJV "bosom" is Greek kolpos, "bosom, breast, chest." The ancient banqueting practice of recling at the table would have one's head on someone's breast. So this puts Lazarus in the place of honor at the right hand of Abraham at the banquet in the next world. The poor man's fortunes are reversed.

The Rich Man in Torment (16:23-24)
The rich man, too, experiences a reversal.
He is in "hell." The Greek word used here is Hades, the place of the dead, and in Jewish thought, the intermediate place of the dead prior to the final judgment. Though Greek gehenna is usually used to refer to the place of final punishment, in Jewish literature torment can be a feature of the intermediate state as well as of the final state of the wicked.

He is in torment, Greek basanos, "severe pain occasioned by punitive torture, 'torture, torment.' " He is parched with thirst, his tongue is hot and dry, and he is suffering. The Greek verb used here is odunao, "to undergo physical torment, 'suffer pain.' " The source of the suffering is fire.

The rich man asks Abraham to order Lazarus to relieve his suffering (16:24), and later to send a message to his brothers (16:27). He still views Lazarus as a slave who can be ordered around at his whim.

A Great Chasm (16:25-26)
Abraham explains the situation and describes a great, impassable chasm (Greek chasma) that prevents anyone from passing from either side to the other. In other words, there is no hope of moving from torment to the blessings of Abraham's bosom, or of Lazarus helping the rich man. The die has been cast; the outcome is irreversible.

God's Word Is Sufficient Warning (16:27-31)
Jesus concludes the parable in a curious way. The rich man wants Lazarus to warn his brothers of the dangers of hell. But Abraham says that if they won't heed the truth that they have -- Moses and the Prophets (i.e., the Old Testament revelation), then they wouldn't believe even if someone rises from the dead. In the context, the rich man proposes that Lazarus rise from the dead to warn his brothers. But Luke's readers will immediately think of Jesus, and how even his manifest resurrection was not enough to sway the Pharisees from their hardened opposition to the truth that was clearly before them.

As Marshall puts it, "The rich man knows from personal experience that his family do not take seriously what the law and the prophets say. Something more is needed."

What's the Point?
Of course, Jesus is saying that riches don't count for anything after we die, but that isn't the thrust of this parable. I think he is making two points.

   1. Wealth without active mercy for the poor is great wickedness.
   2. If we close our eyes to the truth we are given, then we are doomed.

In the context, Jesus is condemning the Pharisees for their love of money but lack of mercy for the poor. Remember his comment about their scrupulous tithing? "Woe to you Pharisees, because you give God a tenth of your mint, rue and all other kinds of garden herbs, but you neglect justice and the love of God. You should have practiced the latter without leaving the former undone" (Luke 11:42). It isn't their piety that he is condemning, but what they AREN'T doing -- showing mercy to the poor, seeking justice for the downtrodden. It is ironic that the Pharisees who prided themselves on being such Bible scholars largely missed the spirit of the Old Testament -- mercy and justice.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

[trustno1]

Anna I totally understand what you're saying as I'm not a religious person either and sometimes the sheer abundance of bible quotes that are discussed in the forums can be off-putting, however as Souza said MJ was someone who had a religious belief and was interested in all religions therefore he would be encouraging us to interpret these bible passages and make our deductions about what it says concerning the hoax and the reasons for it.  It doesn't mean he is the new Messiah or that he's claiming to be or that this is all driven by religion (though I know there are those who believe so).  Bible passages are somehow inextricably linked to this hoax and I don't believe the non-religious among us should feel excluded, as has already been said we don't need to personally have a religious belief to understand what the passages are referring to. Stick with it!

[_Anna_]

I still have a refraining feeling with these too many quotes from the Bible. Not all the people are religious and not all of us relate on it regarding life.

I honestly take these too many religious connections too much.....Don't get me wrong. But I personally think that when someone is religious in an extreme way it's not a good thing. I don't like it. Maybe I should get what? the message, yes, but always from the Bible?

I am not religious, and for me these things are not very...

Hi Anna! I totally can understand and somewhat relate to how you feel. Actually, I used to be a strict Christian but have stepped away from that to study other religions and just learn about it all before I make up my mind. But, either way, I've always viewed the bible as a sort of piece of art. It's hard to explain, but I think there are stories in it that may or may not be true (probably aren't) but the moral of the story remains regardless. I think that the bible is important in this hoax for many reasons, but I know it's NOT to convert everyone to the christian religion. Mike said himself that he studies all religions, but he also reads the bible. Just like all good pieces of literature, the bible can be very inspiring and I think that is what purpose it is serving regarding this hoax. If Mike has been inspired by the bible, then we must respect that. Doesn't mean we have to "believe" in the bible or believe in Jesus or anything like that. We just simply need to respect it. Also, the bible is full of very interesting and entertaining stories for those who simply like to read. And I don't think it should be left out of the quote "just because it's in print doesn't mean it's the gospel", because I believe if there is a gospel, it's been editing beyond recognition and we must explore and study other avenues to find the entire truth. Just my opinon. Hang in there and take the bible references with a grain of salt and open mind, you might be surprised with what you discover. Much love to you, Anna!

It's brilliant how you said it. Exactly my thought too,you spoke my thoughts.....
 I am just afraid to not be cought in a tempest of religious things that lose the touch with reality. We cannot live life by quotes from the Bible, we must keep connection to reality. Because the highest you fly the smalles you'll seem to the ones who don't fly. I have an open mind and I take these quotes literarily as literature quotes that fit as if I quoted Friedrich Nietzsche. Not in a religious way. Although I tottaly respect his beliefs and all religions.

[suspicious mind]

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login


Luke 16:26-31 (King James Version)

 26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

 27Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:

 28For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

 29Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

 30And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

 31And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

just out of curiosity i know the other day there was talk of this being gone. has anyone checked it today? since he brought it up

[paula-c]

"Jesus condemned the Pharisees by their love of money, but the lack of mercy to the poor".

Serenitys_Dream if it can be the message is not reaching all

Many of us spend our lives as the parable, rich man thinking only the satisfaction of our human and bodily appetites, thinking of our own happiness; forgetting our fellow, forgetting us us which does not have a snack, which has no clothes that cover, which has no words or with whom talk, forgetting us of the hopeless, which have no voice, forgetting we rejected by society by churches or Nations, forgetting we rejected by thinking or be different, social, physically or sexually. Forgetting we rejected for being gay or lesbian youth, forgetting the single mother struggling to put food on the table and take forward their children and father trying to survive with his family, and the grandmother looking for affection, love and understanding in their old age; forgetting us all beings in our around that need our love. :cry:

Human beings have failed to be reflection and image of God; We have failed to live and share in we become messengers and representatives of the word of love, forgiveness, healing, renewal and equality.  This bug has created a huge gap of inequality among us.  Created wars nation against nation, and people against people, brother against brother and neighbor against neighbor.

[MissG]

I think most people will believe Mike when he comes back. Many people are opposing TS because he's just a screen name, despite the evidence he presents. Many fans also think he is not representing Mike, and therefore probably don't read all the evidence provided. If they hear if from Mike himself, they have no choice than to admit that TS indeed is carying out MJ's message. Sad, but that's how it works with most people.

I believe that some people are just not very comfortable with anyone representing Michael.

Bow, Cassandra, Leachims 1 to 7, Mike clones, and whoever more can be on the net, as insiders, informers, Maura etc..... have contributed actively for people not to trust anyone who comes with "this is Michael´s message".

My opinion is that MJ must start internationally leading the army asap  

@Serenity,
Thanks for posting an alternative interpretation.

[MJonmind]

Michael and TS, I believe, are masters at knowing, and using Scriptures for their own purposes. So atheists, have no fear that MJ or TS are trying to convert you. I personally believe the Bible is in complex layers, numerology included. This Bible passage is THE number one proof that Christians use to prove that there is a hell of torturing flames awaiting the vast majority of people including almost all of you here, I am so sorry to have to tell you :cry:. Okay that's the bad news, the good news is Jesus was telling a parable. Now Jesus was a galling, cheeky, sarcastic, shoot from the hip kinda guy. This parable was a scathing attack at the religious leaders and pharisees, because they thought they were the sure ones to get into heaven or paradise, because of their high position and Kabbalah knowledge of Torah and Talmud, man-made traditions and interpretations. It is riddled with cheeky sarcasm at them. This is a lengthy article if you want to persue this further. Bottom line is--there is NO hell of flames. Here is one article that closely dissects the words.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

IMO I think TS is simply saying that few will change their mind even if Michael should come back from the "dead". There is a huge gap between 'beLIEvers' and non-beLIEvers and it is difficult for them to cross over; a huge gap between those who gullibly trust the media and those who question everything and look deeper. Moses and the prophets might be all the discussion on the internet exposing what is happening around us, the double-speak and false telling of history, etc. So be prepared that even if Michael should come back, that will not shake up the general feelings of people. Even Jesus in this parable gave no solution why the idea that even He himself dying and rising from the dead (which he does later) will not persuade people to change their ways and repent. That's because it is God who is fully sovereign and in control, and the drama will unfold as He chooses according to His time-table. People BELIEVE when God opens their eyes, take away the veil, and gives them faith, not a moment before. It is pre-determined. So smile, you are all on candid camera--somewhere! 8-)  :lol: JMO