How can hands so change ?

[Sangre]

MJ has eyes that never lie. Why focus on hands when you could just look into his deep chocolate eyes?  

And as for hands, I should show you pics of mine and I can guarantee you, despite what you see on those pictures I am 100% me.  :lol:

[whisper9396]

I want to add that MJ was musician, we must not forget. Therefore, in my opinion, hands must were save grace, flexibility during life. :?

[suspicious mind]

i think we're barking at the wrong tree.  callofthewild has said she hasn't delved into the Mike-AEG business (unlike us who are all nosy   , she doesn't know about TINI (they're the 'followers' and the group who started the call for MJ justice), she hasn't read much or didn't believe most of the MJ write-ups, and it seems she's never heard the story of Mike complaining about the 50 shows. (huh?) for sure, she says she hasn't seen the video.  ( i haven't too.)

so maybe she's just here as Michael's friend, to defend him where she can (though we all love Mike here, for sure.)

still, given all of the above, i also think it's a bit carrying it too far when she states with absolute certainty that that was all Mike in the movie.  

I'm sorry you find it hard to believe, but it's all Michael in TII.

In TII, the man you see performing is Michael Jackson. In each song and dance rehearsal, it's Michael Jackson. There are no doubles, fill ins, substitutes, stand ins or any other person pretending to be Michael Jackson. It is all 100% Michael Jackson. Whether wearing black pants, blue pants, orange pants, or whatever color pants, it is Michael Jackson.


callofthewild, i'm not saying you're wrong, but considering that you seem to know very little of what's happening in hoax city, how could you know for sure?  such strong statements need tangible support, methinks.

seems like the only way to be that positive is to have been there the whole time.

[sassy13169]

It's definately MJ @ the O2 announcement...look @ his nailbeds, they are brownish in colour...

[nefari]

I think it's Criss Angel honestly. Laugh if you want. I do not take offense to that because we are all investigating and without difference of opinions we would get nowhere in this. I'm not saying I'm positive nor am I saying you better think like me or I'll send a stink bomb to your computer.....I just have a strong hunch and am throwing it in the mix. And stop fighting people!!! Hold hands and think about super soakers!!!

[missdanipyt]

Each and every one of these pictures are Michael. The same Michael that began in Gary, In. as a six year old little boy. It's all Michael. Your hands can change over the course of time with age, weight fluctuation, arthritic conditions, and in his case, loss of pigmentation. They can look different in photographs because of angles, lighting and so forth.

He was never replaced by another Michael. Michael has always been Michael.

In TII, it was all Michael. In these pics, it's all Mike.

I'm totally with you  
And, guys, are you gonna tell me this guy has short fingers?
Not in my life  :lol:  :lol:

I completely agree with both of you

[missdanipyt]

well, if we are bringing this subject up again....LOL
and I'm gonna say this... His hands don't look the same because they are the hands of a 50 year old man and not a 20 year old kid.   This is the reason why no one can accept the fact that it was MJ at O2, because no one wants to see a 50 year old man taking the place of their handsome young heartthrob.  No wonder MJ was such a recluse and addicted to surgery...because all his fans couldn't let him go...him being who he and what he looked like when he was young.  The man wore wigs for you, tattooed his eyes for you, starved himself sick for you, and still we are so critical.  Let the man be.  Those fingers are his, arthritic and strong.  They have seen more and done more than any of us can imagine...let him have his hands and let him be 50.

In TII, the man you see performing is Michael Jackson. In each song and dance rehearsal, it's Michael Jackson. There are no doubles, fill ins, substitutes, stand ins or any other person pretending to be Michael Jackson. It is all 100% Michael Jackson. Whether wearing black pants, blue pants, orange pants, or whatever color pants, it is Michael Jackson.

The hands in each photo belong to Michael Jackson.

Now I'm going to rant.

As for Randy's statement about Mike not approving of the film. Someone mentioned that in this thread I believe. That's a lie and Randy makes me angry by saying that. I will even venture to say he's pissed because he isn't getting one red cent from the sale of the movie.

It was Michael's idea to film this rehearsal just as he's filmed every rehearsal for every tour he's ever done. Michael was excited about the tour, about performing again, and he was not unhealthy. His weight wasn't 90 or 100 pounds. The last time I saw him - a little over a month before he died, or whatever the hell it was he did-, he looked to me to be about 130-140. I even told him he looked good for an old man. He was happy, his kids were happy, and he was on top of the damned world. I even told him the world was at his feet again - just as it should be. He wasn't paranoid. He was lucid. He was energetic. He was the freaking happiest I'd seen him in a very long time. The cloud that seemed to have hovered over him during the years since the trial was finally completely gone.

Back to the topic at hand.

And someone upthread posted a very interesting observation. The color and shape/lines of a garment can distort your height, weight, and your complexion. Black slims and lengthens you as do some colors. Was he wearing loafers or boots?

I'm editing to add: I read the comment about the colors in another thread. I've read so much on here my eyes are running together and I'm forgetting where certain things were when I read them. I'm on overload.

Also, strongly agree with both you guys on this, very well said!! And callofthewild thank you for sharing your experience with MJ with us.

[suspicious mind]

yes there is an overload of information. no wonder we are all starting to see doubles our eyes are probably becoming crossed :lol:

[2 Bad]

Thank you Call of the wild!
I imagine it took a lot of strength to post your thoughts.
Those quick to judge need to step back a moment and let it simmer.
First if Callofthewild actually does know Michael personally then I feel honored that they even posted. OMG they know him enough to get a hug!! That in itself is a swoon!!
I do not know one person that knew him, I do not know one person that even  went to one of his concerts! I know 2 people I met online that were at Madison Square Garden 9-10-2001, that's it.
Not every person in Michaels life was shady. I know about all the fakes on the net, sure we flock to tweets and such all the time.
But what if Michael was on this forum? Reading these threads and grinning his cute butt off? He would see a few that even refuse to listen to somebody that knew him.
So where is the LOVE?  You don't have to agree with posts but be kind and most of all listen first and think long about what is said. We have been confused for so long why let in the beast of quick judgement so fast?
Michael- if you are reading this I hope you are well and you have to know we are here for you, we are waiting for the truth.
We L*O*V*E you very much!

[PinkTopaz]

well, if we are bringing this subject up again....LOL
and I'm gonna say this... His hands don't look the same because they are the hands of a 50 year old man and not a 20 year old kid.   This is the reason why no one can accept the fact that it was MJ at O2, because no one wants to see a 50 year old man taking the place of their handsome young heartthrob.  No wonder MJ was such a recluse and addicted to surgery...because all his fans couldn't let him go...him being who he and what he looked like when he was young.  The man wore wigs for you, tattooed his eyes for you, starved himself sick for you, and still we are so critical.  Let the man be.  Those fingers are his, arthritic and strong.  They have seen more and done more than any of us can imagine...let him have his hands and let him be 50.

Also, strongly agree with both you guys on this, very well said!! And callofthewild thank you for sharing your experience with MJ with us.

I don't agree that this was well said, and for this reason: no one was criticizing O2 Dude's appearance. No one was saying that they "want his hands to look like a 20-year-old kid"! Heck, most of the pictures, videos, general gushing I encounter online is over MJ of the last five-or-so years, not when he was young, people adore the pale-and-black look.. Further, not just I but many people here believe that we have pretty solid reason to believe that MJ did not "starve himself sick" or believe that he has been "addicted to surgery", we are convinced in the belief that he used doubles with surgery and makeup to aid him when he couldn't be around due to sickness or danger, even if it sounds far-fetched to some, that's only because it's thinking far out of the box with reason to do so. Even if there are people who feel that way, they can just shut their loud mouths because their opinions shouldn't matter in the slightest with what MJ has to do with his life. No one has said they want him to be a young sex-god here.

Thank you Call of the wild!
I imagine it took a lot of strength to post your thoughts.
Those quick to judge need to step back a moment and let it simmer.
First if Callofthewild actually does know Michael personally then I feel honored that they even posted. OMG they know him enough to get a hug!! That in itself is a swoon!!
I do not know one person that knew him, I do not know one person that even went to one of his concerts! I know 2 people I met online that were at Madison Square Garden 9-10-2001, that's it.
Not every person in Michaels life was shady. I know about all the fakes on the net, sure we flock to tweets and such all the time.
But what if Michael was on this forum? Reading these threads and grinning his cute butt off? He would see a few that even refuse to listen to somebody that knew him.
So where is the LOVE? You don't have to agree with posts but be kind and most of all listen first and think long about what is said. We have been confused for so long why let in the beast of quick judgement so fast?
Michael- if you are reading this I hope you are well and you have to know we are here for you, we are waiting for the truth.
We L*O*V*E you very much!

2. B., I don't know what you're talking about, as no one was fighting with Call and even if they were they've certainly stopped now. We all know about the possibility of MJ's friends being online, maybe coming here, and I certainly think we shouldn't instantly doubt Call (I t would be great to meet one of his friends here), but the issue of knowing him or not aside, I, and I know others, simply do not agree with them about the doubles at the announcement and in TII. Nothing to do with them personally, as investigators, we need to know for sure whether there were or weren't.

[PinkTopaz]

EDIT: Ignore the version of my post above, I made a typo

well, if we are bringing this subject up again....LOL
and I'm gonna say this... His hands don't look the same because they are the hands of a 50 year old man and not a 20 year old kid.   This is the reason why no one can accept the fact that it was MJ at O2, because no one wants to see a 50 year old man taking the place of their handsome young heartthrob.  No wonder MJ was such a recluse and addicted to surgery...because all his fans couldn't let him go...him being who he and what he looked like when he was young.  The man wore wigs for you, tattooed his eyes for you, starved himself sick for you, and still we are so critical.  Let the man be.  Those fingers are his, arthritic and strong.  They have seen more and done more than any of us can imagine...let him have his hands and let him be 50.

Also, strongly agree with both you guys on this, very well said!! And callofthewild thank you for sharing your experience with MJ with us.

I don't agree that this was well said, and for this reason: no one was criticizing O2 Dude's appearance. No one was saying that they "want his hands to look like a 20-year-old kid"! Heck, most of the pictures, videos, general gushing I encounter online is over MJ of the last five-or-so years, not when he was young, people adore the pale-and-black look.. Further, not just I but many people here believe that we have pretty solid reason to believe that MJ did not "starve himself sick" or believe that he has been "addicted to surgery", we are convinced in the belief that he used doubles with surgery and makeup to aid him when he couldn't be around due to sickness or danger, even if it sounds far-fetched to some, that's only because it's thinking far out of the box with reason to do so. Even if there are "fans" who feel in that critical  way about his appearance, they can just shut their loud mouths because their opinions shouldn't matter in the slightest with what MJ has to do with his life. No one has said they want him to be a young sex-god here.

Thank you Call of the wild!
I imagine it took a lot of strength to post your thoughts.
Those quick to judge need to step back a moment and let it simmer.
First if Callofthewild actually does know Michael personally then I feel honored that they even posted. OMG they know him enough to get a hug!! That in itself is a swoon!!
I do not know one person that knew him, I do not know one person that even went to one of his concerts! I know 2 people I met online that were at Madison Square Garden 9-10-2001, that's it.
Not every person in Michaels life was shady. I know about all the fakes on the net, sure we flock to tweets and such all the time.
But what if Michael was on this forum? Reading these threads and grinning his cute butt off? He would see a few that even refuse to listen to somebody that knew him.
So where is the LOVE? You don't have to agree with posts but be kind and most of all listen first and think long about what is said. We have been confused for so long why let in the beast of quick judgement so fast?
Michael- if you are reading this I hope you are well and you have to know we are here for you, we are waiting for the truth.
We L*O*V*E you very much!

2. B., I don't know what you're talking about, as no one was fighting with Call and even if they were they've certainly stopped now. We all know about the possibility of MJ's friends being online, maybe coming here, and I certainly think we shouldn't instantly doubt Call (I t would be great to meet one of his friends here), but the issue of knowing him or not aside, I, and I know others, simply do not agree with them about the doubles at the announcement and in TII. Nothing to do with them personally, as investigators, we need to know for sure whether there were or weren't.

[voiceforthesilent]

i think we're barking at the wrong tree.  callofthewild has said she hasn't delved into the Mike-AEG business (unlike us who are all nosy   , she doesn't know about TINI (they're the 'followers' and the group who started the call for MJ justice), she hasn't read much or didn't believe most of the MJ write-ups, and it seems she's never heard the story of Mike complaining about the 50 shows. (huh?) for sure, she says she hasn't seen the video.  ( i haven't too.)

so maybe she's just here as Michael's friend, to defend him where she can (though we all love Mike here, for sure.)

still, given all of the above, i also think it's a bit carrying it too far when she states with absolute certainty that that was all Mike in the movie.  

I'm sorry you find it hard to believe, but it's all Michael in TII.

In TII, the man you see performing is Michael Jackson. In each song and dance rehearsal, it's Michael Jackson. There are no doubles, fill ins, substitutes, stand ins or any other person pretending to be Michael Jackson. It is all 100% Michael Jackson. Whether wearing black pants, blue pants, orange pants, or whatever color pants, it is Michael Jackson.


callofthewild, i'm not saying you're wrong, but considering that you seem to know very little of what's happening in hoax city, how could you know for sure?  such strong statements need tangible support, methinks.

LOL - I certainly have fallen in love with each and every one of your personalities. I can picture the type of personalities each of you have and it's fun to see all of the special, unique, individuals that have been brought together for a common purpose - Michael Jackson. You make me laugh in a good way and I thank each of you.

I don't mean to laugh at you, but with you. However, I think we're all a bit crazy here now. Listen to us...would we rather live in hoax city or on reality lane? Sometimes we don't see the forest for the trees. It's okay to let something go if we don't agree. The truths will still be standing in the end. It's like separating the chaff from the wheat. Blessings to each of you.

[2 Bad]

" 2. B., I don't know what you're talking about, as no one was fighting with Call and even if they were they've certainly stopped now. We all know about the possibility of MJ's friends being online, maybe coming here, and I certainly think we shouldn't instantly doubt Call (I t would be great to meet one of his friends here), but the issue of knowing him or not aside, I, and I know others, simply do not agree with them about the doubles at the announcement and in TII. Nothing to do with them personally, as investigators, we need to know for sure whether there were or weren't."

Pink Topaz- I didn't say anybody was fighting with Call. I said it took a lot of strength because I am sure there were others thinking 'yes yes we've heard that before, you are a friend of MJ's'
We shouldn't instantly doubt anything, that I agree with 100%  
I won't put my opinion down as to who the O2 guy was or the orange pants guy as I don't know MJ well enough to say for certain. I have loved MJ since he was a young man singing Off The Wall so I have been around watching a long time. I'll continue to watch and learn as much as I can. I know it won't count for much towards the hoax but why does it matter if MJ had a double do a few parts? It doesn't bother me and I kind of enjoyed watching the orange pants guy do his thing if he was MJ or was not.  :lol:
Peace Love and Michael Jackson!!

[curls]

I won't put my opinion down as to who the O2 guy was or the orange pants guy as I don't know MJ well enough to say for certain. I have loved MJ since he was a young man singing Off The Wall so I have been around watching a long time. I'll continue to watch and learn as much as I can. I know it won't count for much towards the hoax but why does it matter if MJ had a double do a few parts? It doesn't bother me and I kind of enjoyed watching the orange pants guy do his thing if he was MJ or was not.  :lol:
Peace Love and Michael Jackson!!

I've been watching for a long time too - since J5 cartoon on a Saturday morning at my friend's house! As far as the hoax goes, I personally don't find any evidence for it in doubles or indeed, many of the other things discussed here, interesting little diversions though they may be.  And as far as MJ's real message goes, even the hoax isn't really important. He could be dead, and all he stood for and was trying to tell us would still be here. What the hoax is doing now and will do even more when it's all revealed, is bring the seriousness of his message to everyone's attention. I think we're pretty much all guilty of not really listening before.  :cry:

[2 Bad]

" ... As far as the hoax goes, I personally don't find any evidence for it in doubles or indeed, many of the other things discussed here, interesting little diversions though they may be. And as far as MJ's real message goes, even the hoax isn't really important. He could be dead, and all he stood for and was trying to tell us would still be here. What the hoax is doing now and will do even more when it's all revealed, is bring the seriousness of his message to everyone's attention. I think we're pretty much all guilty of not really listening before. :cry:"

Yes Curls that is true. Michael's real messages are the important thing.
It is easy to get swept up by the diversions, could be a case of "anything is better than nothing".
I feel so sad thinking that humans pushed MJ into doing the disappearing act.
Through my days I come across people that I just want to shake and tell them that MJ wouldn't act like that! Get a grip! LOVE is the message! sigh...
But I'm listening now Baby! When most of the world operates on lies, threats and you name it, I'm listening. And we need to continue to listen and try to "Make this a better world".

"When the power of love
overcomes the love of power,
the world will know peace."