Comparison photos between DD on LKL and Michael

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Offline Game Player

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Quote from: "DREAMSandTRUTH"
Quote from: "Game Player"
There is indeed a real Dave Dave but like the real Michael, DD has his own impersonators  8-)

As you know the angles are not 100% matched but keep in mind the eyebrows and eyes. We know Michael has his eyebrows tattooed... although there is makeup available to cover tattoos it seems they were left slightly visible.



Sorry for the poor clarity but you will see it is quite a close match.



This is fascinating! How did you do that? Which program did you use?
Thanks for your great work!

Animation shop. On the fade setting  8-)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline DREAMSandTRUTH

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Quote from: "DREAMSandTRUTH"
Quote from: "SoldierofLOVE"
i'd love to see a couple more comparisons with both Michael and DD in glasses.
I don't promise that I can, but I will try to make more comparisons where he wears glasses.
Okay, I made one - not 100% perfect because "DD" looks a little more to the left (to his right) but this is the best capture I could get of him for this photo of Michael. On the comparison which is only about his eyes you can see how wide his face was made by that thick mask. His eyes are similar but outwards his face is way too broad (or what is the correct word for it). (And that puffiness on his eyelids by the mask also change his eyes a little downward looking - as I stated before.)
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Offline DREAMSandTRUTH

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Quote from: "Game Player"
Animation shop. On the fade setting  8-)
Thanks!  :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline gardenrose

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Bah ha ha, I LOVE Dave Dave!  :D  Great work on these pics.  :mrgreen:  There is just no denying how similar they look, especially the Mayor from Ghost. To me Dave Dave is the most bizarre part of this whole odd episode. If it really IS the real Dave Dave, he looks so different from every other pic of himself, it is almost weirder if he is the real Dave, because to me, they look like two different people, and LKL Dave and Michael look like the same person!  :lol:
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Offline VeryLittleSusie

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Thanks for eyes-distance comparison.
 
Pretty convincing....
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline SoldierofLOVE

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Quote from: "gardenrose"
Bah ha ha, I LOVE Dave Dave!  :D  Great work on these pics.  :mrgreen:  There is just no denying how similar they look, especially the Mayor from Ghost. To me Dave Dave is the most bizarre part of this whole odd episode. If it really IS the real Dave Dave, he looks so different from every other pic of himself, it is almost weirder if he is the real Dave, because to me, they look like two different people, and LKL Dave and Michael look like the same person!  :lol:


yep.  this is very convincing.  thanks for finding more pics with the glasses.  it's great.

i like the idea of now comparing the real Dave Dave with the LKL DD.  can you do this?  you are awesome!   thank you.
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Offline BlessHisHeart

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^^^Yes ! I was about to say the same thing! The high V arched eyebrows.....AND the way DD's AND MJ's bottom teeth show when they talk....hhhhmmmmmm
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Offline DREAMSandTRUTH

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Quote from: "VeryLittleSusie"
Thanks for eyes-distance comparison.
 
Pretty convincing....
You're welcome  :)
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Offline DREAMSandTRUTH

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Quote from: "SoldierofLOVE"
i like the idea of now comparing the real Dave Dave with the LKL DD.  can you do this?  you are awesome!   thank you.
I made some comparisons for my video, but as we have only a few photos of the real DD, I couldn't make comparisons where the real DD and the "DD" on LKL keep their head the same way and look to the same directions. So these comparisons are not that good, but I guess we can still see that they are two different persons.
The real DD is a little cross-eyed. On this photo he looks very cross-eyed as he looks into the camera. But as you can see, he was cross-eyed as a child too.
But it's not just their eyes which are different - the real DD has a more narrow face. And the two persons' necks are very different too. The real DD's neck is thinner and longer - and his skin is in a much worse condition (not just on his neck...).
« Last Edit: July 09, 2010, 07:28:23 AM by DREAMSandTRUTH »

Offline DREAMSandTRUTH

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Here is another one.
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Offline DREAMSandTRUTH

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Their lips are very different too - the real DD cannot move his lips normally, as I can see, and his lower lip is very loose. Probably the reconstruction surgery wasn't that successful, or this is the best they could achieve. (I read that his mother said "his lips were gone".)
On this photo from the B&B you cannot see this clearly, as this is not a video, so if you are interested, from 4:02 you can see it here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6u1jL0LgGs
(I don't know how to upload here a video...)
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Offline Red_Rose

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Quote from: "DREAMSandTRUTH"
Here is another one.
Hmmm and the nose is also different...but you can see perfectly that the real DD has blue eyes and the DD on LKL had brown eyes :D so this are 2 different person ... MJ was certainly disguise as DD then :D I love it!!! He is a genius man!
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Offline msteetee34

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DD got the same bottom teeth as MJ and you can see the same eyebrow pattern since MJ's eyebrows were arched.  DD also leans his head to the side like MJ when he speaks.  Some people think it can't be Mike because of the hands but I beg to differ.  I believe it's possible to fake those hands with all the make up, prostetics, and technology we have now days.  I believe in the movie Speed with Keanu Reeves and Sandra Bullock they made Dennis Hopper appear to have a disfigured hand.
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Offline DREAMSandTRUTH

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Quote from: "Red_Rose"
Quote from: "DREAMSandTRUTH"
Here is another one.
Hmmm and the nose is also different...but you can see perfectly that the real DD has blue eyes and the DD on LKL had brown eyes :D so this are 2 different person ... MJ was certainly disguise as DD then :D I love it!!! He is a genius man!
Yes, the fake nose looks different too - basically everything...
Generally I don't talk about the difference between the colors of their eyes as it is very easy to change by wearing contact lenses. Probably Michael chose not to wear contacts as together with the mask, changing his eye color to blue/green it would have made way more difficult to recognize him. But as we can see his real eyes without contacts, it's not that hard. And I believe he wanted us to recognize him.
On the other hand, those who don't believe it's Michael on LKL, can say that his eyes are brown because DD (the real one) wore brown contact lenses... The eye color difference is not convincing enough for them.
So I rather focus on everything else but the colors of their eyes.
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Offline DREAMSandTRUTH

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Quote from: "msteetee34"
Some people think it can't be Mike because of the hands but I beg to differ.  I believe it's possible to fake those hands with all the make up, prostetics, and technology we have now days.  
I agree.
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Offline missdanipyt

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Their mouths are TOTALLY different!! I'd never really seen any pictures of the real Dave Dave except for one which hasn't even been posted so far on this thread, but wow I wasn't expecting him to look so different! In my opinion the proof that its MJ on LKL just keeps coming and coming ;)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

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Offline SoldierofLOVE

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oh, thank you so much. this is amazing. but, wait. the last photos you uploaded is the dd on lkl on the left but who's that on the right?  it doesn't really look like the real dd either.   these both look like mj (the last photos you've posted.)
 the skin of the person on the right is extremely smooth, don't you think? so, mj has disguised as dd on more than one occasion, before lkl?

in any case, with the other photos of the real dd, clearly there are big differences even without focusing on the eye color.   and, may i say that i've seen people with colored contact lenses and it always looks very fake and weird to me. you can't really fake the eye color and have the eyes look natural. but, in these photos the eyes - brown or blue -- look very natural. no contacts here.

in the other photos, what worries me a bit is the discoloration on different parts of the skin with both dd on lkl and the real dd -- the discoloration and the shapes of it (upper right-side and around both jaws) look very similar.  i can also see faded eyebrows on the real dd.  how's this the case if they are different people?  i would expect to see more differences here although, again, the difference in smoothness is quite striking as well as shape of mouth.  and you can see that the real dd has wider nostrils.  the dd on lkl has small nostrils exactly like mj.  and, in the first pic, the skin does look much worse on dd than the person on lkl.


for non-believers, here's your proof that mj is alive.  this is it.
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Offline DREAMSandTRUTH

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Quote from: "SoldierofLOVE"
oh, thank you so much. this is amazing. but, wait. the last photos you uploaded is the dd on lkl on the left but who's that on the right?  it doesn't really look like the real dd either.   these both look like mj (the last photos you've posted.)
 the skin of the person on the right is extremely smooth, don't you think? so, mj has disguised as dd on more than one occasion, before lkl?
Hi SoldierofLOVE, sorry that I answer just now.
The one on the right is DD from The Bold and the Beautiful soap opera, where he played a short role in 1997. We are just discussing on the topic "Dave Dave" is a liar whether he is the real DD.
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=12139&start=50
IMO he is the real DD. His skin looks better because the room he is in is very dark, but sometimes we can see that his skin is more damaged - like on the second photo I attached. And if you watch my video from 4:02 - where you can see a short video of DD from the B&B and then the Leeza video (I believe DD on the Leeza show is Michael, just as on LKL) - you can see the huge difference between their teeth and the way they move their lips. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6u1jL0LgGs
But you can compare DD's teeth and lips watching the B&B episode and DD on LKL.
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Offline FatallyFlawed

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I  really don't kow what to make of Dave Dave...i can see the striking similarities, and their are arguaments for why Michael would portray him, and arguaments as to why he wouldn't, so is a bit confusing for me to be honest, will reserve judgement and see if anymore facts come through about dave dave
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Offline DREAMSandTRUTH

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Quote from: "SoldierofLOVE"
in any case, with the other photos of the real dd, clearly there are big differences even without focusing on the eye color.   and, may i say that i've seen people with colored contact lenses and it always looks very fake and weird to me. you can't really fake the eye color and have the eyes look natural. but, in these photos the eyes - brown or blue -- look very natural. no contacts here.
Hi SoldierofLOVE, I continue to answer to your other thoughts.
I don't know too much about colored contact lenses, but I'm not sure that through glasses and on a not-too-perfect-quality video we have about the Larry King interview we can see whether someone is wearing colored contacts or not... I cannot see "Dave"'s eyes clearly enough on this video - even though (if I remember well) I downloaded it from CNN (but I find the quality of the others on YT are the same.) The photos about DD are much better concerning the quality IMO.
For me the color of DD's eyes on the LKL doesn't really matter - as I can feel that it's Michael in a disguise - because of his voice, his mouth, the shape of his eyes, and the way he moves etc. Of course, maybe I couldn't have recognized him if he wore blue contacts...
Anyway, I'm sure it's Michael on LKL, and we see his natural eye color, I just wanted to say that those who are not fans of him (or at least not longtime fans), and don't believe he is alive, can easily say that it's the real DD on LKL and he is wearing colored contacts.
So this is why I try to show how many other similarities we can find between DD on LKL and Michael, concentrating on the shape of his eyes and his mouth and the very similar spirit we can see on the photo comparisons.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline DREAMSandTRUTH

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Quote from: "SoldierofLOVE"
in the other photos, what worries me a bit is the discoloration on different parts of the skin with both dd on lkl and the real dd -- the discoloration and the shapes of it (upper right-side and around both jaws) look very similar.  i can also see faded eyebrows on the real dd.  how's this the case if they are different people?  i would expect to see more differences here although, again, the difference in smoothness is quite striking as well as shape of mouth.  and you can see that the real dd has wider nostrils.  the dd on lkl has small nostrils exactly like mj.  and, in the first pic, the skin does look much worse on dd than the person on lkl.
I believe it's not too hard to imitate discolorations with make-up (which was used on the mask). I guess this is one of the easiest parts making a disguise.
About the eyebrows: I guess we can see the shapes of the bones above their eyes on both the real DD and on Michael in this mask. The real DD's eyebrows are gone IMO, because of the fire, so he has no eyebrows at all, just his skin. Michael has the mask on and we can see the shape of his bones under that. As I see, they did a professional job with this mask, even making false eyelids which makes Michael's eyes more downward looking and a little puffy. But IMO we can clearly see that these eyelids are fake. Because his eyes sit too deep in this mask: there are strange dark shades in the outer parts of his eyes - which we cannot see on DD's photos.
What they couldn't imitate by the mask is the distance between Michael's eyes, and the shape of his eyes still looks almost the same despite of those fake eyelids, and we can also recognize his mouth as he speaks. IDK why they couldn't make the nose more similar though (I agree with you about the nostrils) - maybe they wanted us to see that it's really not the real DD. And his skin looks much tense/more healthy, mainly on his neck. Why? IDK either. But IMO basically Michael's longtime fans can feel his spirit whatever kind of disguise he wears - mainly when he helps us with not changing his voice too much.
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Offline PJ4MJ

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First time I saw the LKL interview (following my hoax education), I definitely heard and felt Michael in voice and mannerisms - even the way he answered the questions.  The phrasing was too much like someone trying to talk in the 3rd person about themselves (especially in answer to "What don't we know about Michael that we need to know?").  But I was still probably 75/25 at that point. Since then, the eyebrows have been bumping that up to a higher percentage but your analysis of the eyes sealed the deal for me, particularly the location of the pupils as you compared LKL Dave to MJ looking in different directions.  I just don't think that can be faked, and I see obvious similarities to MJ and obvious differences to Dave.

So now I'm 100%, thanks to your hard work and great attention to details.  :)  I'll just add that re-visiting a subject that has been looked at again and again is worthwhile if a new perspective is offered, and you did that.  There's already a few more people firmly in the "I believe" camp on this one!
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Offline DREAMSandTRUTH

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Quote from: "PJ4MJ"
First time I saw the LKL interview (following my hoax education), I definitely heard and felt Michael in voice and mannerisms - even the way he answered the questions.  The phrasing was too much like someone trying to talk in the 3rd person about themselves (especially in answer to "What don't we know about Michael that we need to know?").  But I was still probably 75/25 at that point. Since then, the eyebrows have been bumping that up to a higher percentage but your analysis of the eyes sealed the deal for me, particularly the location of the pupils as you compared LKL Dave to MJ looking in different directions.  I just don't think that can be faked, and I see obvious similarities to MJ and obvious differences to Dave.

So now I'm 100%, thanks to your hard work and great attention to details.  :)  I'll just add that re-visiting a subject that has been looked at again and again is worthwhile if a new perspective is offered, and you did that.  There's already a few more people firmly in the "I believe" camp on this one!
I'm glad I could help  :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline StrangerInCalifornia

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Re: Comparison photos between DD on LKL and Michael

  • on: August 24, 2010, 02:02:42 AM
Quote from: "liegi"
You did a fantastic job. You have a great eye for details and I think you have provided great evidence that it was not Dave Dave (Rothenberg).  There is MJ's fullness of face, pursed lips, etc.  Another I noticed...the eyebrows!!! You can see they are covered up, but they are there!
I was always convinced that it was Michael because when I first saw the video, I was only listening, but not watching and my mouth fell open. That voice did it for me! It may be disguised, but the infliction of the voice and the words that were used were inmistakeable. As well as his eyes. Not to mention the fact that he doesn't particularly look like the real Dave Dave to me and the shoulders are way too broad. However I've never noticed the eyebrows before. They are clearly there and now I can show this to other people!
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Offline lilith

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Re: Comparison photos between DD on LKL and Michael

  • on: August 24, 2010, 08:42:14 AM
Quote from: "DREAMSandTRUTH"
Quote from: "SoldierofLOVE"
in any case, with the other photos of the real dd, clearly there are big differences even without focusing on the eye color.   and, may i say that i've seen people with colored contact lenses and it always looks very fake and weird to me. you can't really fake the eye color and have the eyes look natural. but, in these photos the eyes - brown or blue -- look very natural. no contacts here.
Hi SoldierofLOVE, I continue to answer to your other thoughts.
I don't know too much about colored contact lenses, but I'm not sure that through glasses and on a not-too-perfect-quality video we have about the Larry King interview we can see whether someone is wearing colored contacts or not... I cannot see "Dave"'s eyes clearly enough on this video - even though (if I remember well) I downloaded it from CNN (but I find the quality of the others on YT are the same.) The photos about DD are much better concerning the quality IMO.
For me the color of DD's eyes on the LKL doesn't really matter - as I can feel that it's Michael in a disguise - because of his voice, his mouth, the shape of his eyes, and the way he moves etc. Of course, maybe I couldn't have recognized him if he wore blue contacts...
Anyway, I'm sure it's Michael on LKL, and we see his natural eye color, I just wanted to say that those who are not fans of him (or at least not longtime fans), and don't believe he is alive, can easily say that it's the real DD on LKL and he is wearing colored contacts.
So this is why I try to show how many other similarities we can find between DD on LKL and Michael, concentrating on the shape of his eyes and his mouth and the very similar spirit we can see on the photo comparisons.

Thank God I found it. I knew he said that thing about the girls who always find out it is him in disguise. I listened to the ever same interviews to find it but finally I found this interview:

 
Quote
Interview With Gold Magazine [2002]

In late 2002, Michael granted an interview with England's prestigious magazine, Gold Magazine.
The magazine is published twice a year by Conde Nast Publications Ltd for Harrods.
http://http://mjbaltic.com/Interviews.html

Quote
GG: Does it ever become a burden to be one of the most recognized stars in the world?
MJ: There's nowhere in the world I can actually go and have privacy. The thing that hurts the most is the fact that your privacy is taken away from you. To use the silly expression, you live in a fishbowl, but it's true. I do disguises...People know them all, it's very hard, very hard.
GG: What kind of disguises?
MJ: Bat suits, buck teeth, glasses, afros, prosthetics, make-up jobs, everything. Just to sit in the audience and experience it the way an audience would experience a show; I want to feel how they feel.
GG: Do they find you out?
MJ: Sometimes, yes. In the beginning, no. Then they start looking me in the eyes. I put these things on and then they start looking behind the glasses...Girls are very smart, you know. You can trick a guy quicker than you can trick a girl. Women can just pick it up. They know the way you move your body, the way you walk, the way you gesture. I hear them go, 'Look at the way he moves his hand', or 'Look at the way he was walking', and I think, 'Oh no.'

http://http://mjbaltic.com/Interviews/Gold_Magazine_2002.htm

I really believe Michael wants us to know that he is still there. His appearance on LKL is a gift to us and that he did not bother to hide his eyes is just our chance to "find him out"!

:-* Thank you Michael! It is good to see you after June 25th 2009! Love you!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »