Judge says its now a murder investigation

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Offline DontBelieveTheHype

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Judge says its now a murder investigation

  • on: December 08, 2009, 11:55:41 AM
http://www.etonline.com/documents/cmurr ... vit_et.PDF

I read through it. I dont know what to make of it. Its things like these that make be doubt the hoax. If anyone has anything to reply to differ than do. I wonder how far they can go through the lawsystem with all these investigations if this was not true. Or maybe these papers are false. I dont know.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »


JUST BECAUSE YOU READ IT IN THE MAGASINE OR SEE IT ON THE TV-SCREEN DONT MAKE IT FACTUAL.

Offline michaelsupporter

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Re: Judge says its now a murder investigation

  • on: December 08, 2009, 12:06:02 PM
Documents could prove:
 1) Either MJ is dead OR
 2) MJ is made to look dead-to further an investigation to completion.
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Re: Judge says its now a murder investigation

  • on: December 08, 2009, 12:14:26 PM
Guys I noticed that on each paper stand the letters E.T.And those have spread also the ambulance photo.Am I wrong or are these documents made by themselve??
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Offline 4evermichael71

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Re: Judge says its now a murder investigation

  • on: December 08, 2009, 12:40:42 PM
Some murder investigation when the "perp" is allowed to continue to practice medicine after "confessing" to giving Michael the stuff that "killed" him...
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Offline mjboogie

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Re: Judge says its now a murder investigation

  • on: December 08, 2009, 12:56:35 PM
OK didn't Murray lie? OK I know I will have to read this a few times before everything just sinks in because it is a lot of info. Ok Murray lied to the UCLA Staff? He told them he gave MJ two drugs that particular day and neither one of them was named as Propofol. ALso once LAPD interviewed him he stated to LAPD (what he did not state to UCLA when they brought MJ in) that he gave MJ propofol!!! Another thing is I got confused on the caller. It was Alvarez right? Not Michael.  Another thing is if Murray found MJ in distress.. ummmmm..... well..... why did he spend soooo much time on his bleeping cell phone!!! :evil:  :evil: Heck , he should have called 911 before he called anything else!! Another thing... I thought per (Latoya) that prince was not summoned up stairs? But Kai Chase says Murray did call for Prince!!! IDK guys this is definitley legite info. These documents could mean what we have been fearing for almost 6 months! That our beloved MJ was I can't bear to say it (Murdered! :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry: . But then if MJ was murdered there would not be a motive would it? I mean the way LAPD is handling this case? IDK anymore, anything!! Please lets all study the documents and report our findings. I know we can't give up until we know the truth. MJ deserves the truth no matter how bad it may be right? :cry:  :cry:  BTW just because it is coming from E NEws (still looks legit to me they are documents filed in court)
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Offline DontBelieveTheHype

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Re: Judge says its now a murder investigation

  • on: December 08, 2009, 01:29:56 PM
Good points everyone.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »


JUST BECAUSE YOU READ IT IN THE MAGASINE OR SEE IT ON THE TV-SCREEN DONT MAKE IT FACTUAL.

Offline AnnieIsNotOK

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Re: Judge says its now a murder investigation

  • on: December 08, 2009, 01:36:26 PM
If Michael Jackson was murder,than I find his family is handeling it very well! :shock: To loose a familly member is very hard but murder!!I don't know but the grieving process  would be impossible for me until justice was served...I would have lots of anger feelings and I would yell for justice.To me none of his family member behave likes this is a murder.
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Offline tinker_bell

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Re: Judge says its now a murder investigation

  • on: December 08, 2009, 01:46:51 PM
This document has been released by TMZ on November 20th, it's really the same. With same typos too (Grace Owanda - sic) and same absurd story by Murray...

http://www.tmz.com/2009/11/20/dr-conrad ... arrant-bn/

If the case has been ruled as manslaughter and even the court papers released, why Murray was free to return to his practice? Is he Defendant in the case or a key witness? What about Klein and other doctors who allegdly gave MJ Propofol and other drugs? Oh yeah, we also saw the pharmacy they've searched, there's a big thread on that!
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Offline Secret Dove

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Re: Judge says its now a murder investigation

  • on: December 08, 2009, 01:51:56 PM
I don't know what to think. :?  I do know that ET has NOT mentioned that MJs case has been turned into a murder investigation. I watch it every night to see if they'll talk about the case and they haven't said ONE word! Heck ,they don't even talk about the case anymore! The only time they'll mention MJs name was when TII came into theaters, and his brothers reality tv show, etc. If this was true, they would've mentioned it by now.  :?  :?  :?  :?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »


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So what do they have to do with any murder case?
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Offline karen-ishealive

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Re: Judge says its now a murder investigation

  • on: December 08, 2009, 03:06:17 PM
Quote from: "4evermichael71"
Some murder investigation when the "perp" is allowed to continue to practice medicine after "confessing" to giving Michael the stuff that "killed" him...


Exactly! The investigator on the case told the woman that rang him (youtube) that an arrest would be made in the new year so Murray is allowed to treat patients until the New Year  :lol:
What a load of horse s**t.
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Offline virgo75

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Re: Judge says its now a murder investigation

  • on: December 08, 2009, 03:25:30 PM
Hello all;

Please bear with me as this is my first post.  I've been a lurker on the mjhd forum and now here.  Before reading these papers I was at about 50% belief that mj may be alive and did a hoax on purpose, with 25% belief that something just went wrong but he's still alive, and 25% that he is dead.

After reading these papers I am about 75% believing that he is dead.   :(

#1 - these papers have too much detailed information to be fake
#2 - you can print out fake papers, but to file affadavits and legally open case material can't really be faked

And given the information in the papers about the medications, it leads me to
#3 - the family's reactions to mj's "death."

If these papers and/or reports of him having an addiction or over dependance on medications are true, then how his family is reacting - unemotional - is quite normal.  Having dealt with family members suffering with addictions, it's like a long, drawn out death.  You try to intervene(as Janet said they did), but ultimately, have no control over the addicts choices.  Even if their choices are going to ultimately cause their demise.  And when you do lose such a family member, you tend to be more numb and/or angry than grief stricken.  You're angry over their choices and how they threw away their gifts, talents, and family's love for some chemicals.  And numb because you've been watching this person die for Y.E.A.R.S.  It's not a sudden "shock."  It's an expected end and sometimes it's almost a relief because at least you know that that person is in a better place(hopefully), and you're no longer waiting for "the call" that tells you that your loved one is gone.

I've gone over and over the "clues" but many seem far reaching by those of us in love with endless hope that he is still alive and we're waiting and wanting to see him alive and happy.  I want this too.  But I don't believe it to be.

I'll continue to lurk as I'll probably be chased off of here after this post.  
I just felt the need to share.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Grace

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Re: Judge says its now a murder investigation

  • on: December 08, 2009, 03:26:57 PM
Murder is not always a crime.
Especially not if we are talking performance art.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Create your day. Create the most astounding year of your life. Be the change you want to see in the world! L.O.V.E.
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Offline ILuvUMoreMJ

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Re: Judge says its now a murder investigation

  • on: December 08, 2009, 03:47:34 PM
Quote from: "virgo75"
Hello all;

Please bear with me as this is my first post.  I've been a lurker on the mjhd forum and now here.  Before reading these papers I was at about 50% belief that mj may be alive and did a hoax on purpose, with 25% belief that something just went wrong but he's still alive, and 25% that he is dead.

After reading these papers I am about 75% believing that he is dead.   :(

#1 - these papers have too much detailed information to be fake
#2 - you can print out fake papers, but to file affadavits and legally open case material can't really be faked

And given the information in the papers about the medications, it leads me to
#3 - the family's reactions to mj's "death."

If these papers and/or reports of him having an addiction or over dependance on medications are true, then how his family is reacting - unemotional - is quite normal.  Having dealt with family members suffering with addictions, it's like a long, drawn out death.  You try to intervene(as Janet said they did), but ultimately, have no control over the addicts choices.  Even if their choices are going to ultimately cause their demise.  And when you do lose such a family member, you tend to be more numb and/or angry than grief stricken.  You're angry over their choices and how they threw away their gifts, talents, and family's love for some chemicals.  And numb because you've been watching this person die for Y.E.A.R.S.  It's not a sudden "shock."  It's an expected end and sometimes it's almost a relief because at least you know that that person is in a better place(hopefully), and you're no longer waiting for "the call" that tells you that your loved one is gone.

I've gone over and over the "clues" but many seem far reaching by those of us in love with endless hope that he is still alive and we're waiting and wanting to see him alive and happy.  I want this too.  But I don't believe it to be.

I'll continue to lurk as I'll probably be chased off of here after this post.  
I just felt the need to share.

You won't be run off...we're all here to figure this out, whether it's good or bad news.  Lots of people have doubts, not everyone believes 100% that he is alive.  Some days I'm hopeful, other days not so much.  But I will be here until there is no doubt in my mind either way.  Even if you believe there is a 1% chance this is a hoax, then you're still one of us. ;)
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Offline DontBelieveTheHype

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Re: Judge says its now a murder investigation

  • on: December 08, 2009, 03:52:30 PM
Quote
Having dealt with family members suffering with addictions, it's like a long, drawn out death. You try to intervene(as Janet said they did), but ultimately, have no control over the addicts choices. Even if their choices are going to ultimately cause their demise. And when you do lose such a family member, you tend to be more numb and/or angry than grief stricken. You're angry over their choices and how they threw away their gifts, talents, and family's love for some chemicals. And numb because you've been watching this person die for Y.E.A.R.S. It's not a sudden "shock."

Welcome to the boards, I hope you will continue to post. I try and investigate all parts of this case, conspiracy, murder and hoax. I am here because of the hoax. But you do make a good point.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »


JUST BECAUSE YOU READ IT IN THE MAGASINE OR SEE IT ON THE TV-SCREEN DONT MAKE IT FACTUAL.

Offline ILuvUMoreMJ

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Re: Judge says its now a murder investigation

  • on: December 08, 2009, 04:21:20 PM
Has anyone looked into the doctor that pronounced his death?  I can't seem to find anything on Dr. R. Cooper.

This is interesting... http://deathby1000papercuts.com/2009/10 ... d-in-home/  Did you guys know that at the UCLA press conference Jermaine said Dr. Tohme was MJ's personal doctor, not Murray, and that he was at the house with him?  This is the first time I've heard that.
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Offline DooDoo

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Re: Judge says its now a murder investigation

  • on: December 08, 2009, 04:37:58 PM
Quote from: "Grace"
Murder is not always a crime.
Especially not if we are talking performance art.
Exactly. Couldn't have said it better  ;)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »


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Offline Zen

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Re: Judge says its now a murder investigation

  • on: December 08, 2009, 11:55:22 PM
virgo75 wrote:Hello all;


After reading these papers I am about 75% believing that he is dead. :(

#1 - these papers have too much detailed information to be fake
#2 - you can print out fake papers, but to file affadavits and legally open case material can't really be faked

And given the information in the papers about the medications, it leads me to
#3 - the family's reactions to mj's "death."

If these papers and/or reports of him having an addiction or over dependance on medications are true, then how his family is reacting - unemotional - is quite normal. Having dealt with family members suffering with addictions, it's like a long, drawn out death. You try to intervene(as Janet said they did), but ultimately, have no control over the addicts choices. Even if their choices are going to ultimately cause their demise. And when you do lose such a family member, you tend to be more numb and/or angry than grief stricken. You're angry over their choices and how they threw away their gifts, talents, and family's love for some chemicals. And numb because you've been watching this person die for Y.E.A.R.S. It's not a sudden "shock." It's an expected end and sometimes it's almost a relief because at least you know that that person is in a better place(hopefully), and you're no longer waiting for "the call" that tells you that your loved one is gone.

I've gone over and over the "clues" but many seem far reaching by those of us in love with endless hope that he is still alive and we're waiting and wanting to see him alive and happy. I want this too. But I don't believe it to be.

I'll continue to lurk as I'll probably be chased off of here after this post.
I just felt the need to share.


I think you should continue to post and state your opinion and findings.  8-)
The "problem" with this, is that the title says "Murder Investigation"..and if that is true, then I
believe the family should at least (for Appearance sake!) show more outrage and shock.
I for one, could not believe my eyes when I saw the photos of Jermaine with a Jackson 5 shirt on
a couple of days after Michael's death!  What was he trying to say..."remember me?!"
If it turns out to be TRUE that Michael was murdered..then I will truely HATE his family..as they
have done nothing but jet-set around the world for interviews, concerts, ect.  and I seriously hope it
back-fires on them.
And while on this subject, it "could" be, that some of Michaels REAL friends did not attend the
funeral because they could not stand the "grandstanding" of some of the family members.
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Offline hope

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Re: Judge says its now a murder investigation

  • on: December 09, 2009, 12:04:00 AM
Zen, I really agree with you. I cant even look at the Jackson family right now except for his beautiful children.
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Offline Grace

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Re: Judge says its now a murder investigation

  • on: December 09, 2009, 12:08:27 AM
Did it cross your mind that for murder there are at least 4 options available?
(we did not look enough into this at all)

- murder of MJ
- murder of somebody else (date 25/06/2009)
- murder of somebody else (other date)
- murder as performance art (a fake of a fake is no crime)

Heads up please.
Does anybody know whether Tenderoni is with us ? He knew quite a bit about jurisdiction.
Maybe somebody could contact Tenderoni please? Txs.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Create your day. Create the most astounding year of your life. Be the change you want to see in the world! L.O.V.E.
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Offline Tay3

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Re: Judge says its now a murder investigation

  • on: December 09, 2009, 01:35:27 AM
Well, this is something to think about, but we just have to wait and see what happens to Dr. Murray if and when he is charged with anything. That's the key to all of this IMO. But I feel very sure of one thing... the claims about him being dead in his home long before being taken to the hospital can't be true. If that really is MJ in the ambulance picture, he's definitely not dead. I have a nursing background and have seen people in this type of distress... (not breathing, weak or no pulse)... and the color of their skin can range from bluish purple to very ashen gray. Not only the face is discolored, but also areas of the chest and shoulders. I'm convinced that WAS NOT a dead person in the ambulance :!:
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Offline virgo75

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Re: Judge says its now a murder investigation

  • on: December 09, 2009, 09:07:57 AM
Thank you for the kind welcome and not coming after me with torches and pitch forks!  :lol:


I don't like how most of his family, ok, JERMAINE(wait, add Joe too) is acting either.  
It's evident that Michael was surrounded by opportunists who didn't give a flying fig about his well being.
Even some members of his own family seem this way which is really sad.   :(

And as for his family showing more outrage and shock- if he had a problem with medications and surrounded himself with leeches who would get them for him, then there's really no shock there that he would end up dead.  It was just a matter of time.  When you're dealing with people who have addictions, one thing you learn is that they escalate.  They only grow and get worse.  And Michael was a man with endless amounts of money and resources to get whatever he wanted...  It's really a miracle that there weren't a bunch of overdose scares where he ended up in the hospital from taking too much of something by accident.  

And how can you be outraged when these are the people that Michael may have chosen to surround himself with so that he could get the medications that he wanted?  Again, the main emotions would probably be: anger, frustration, and numbness.  He had endless resources for help if he did have a problem.  

We're looking at this from a fan's point of view instead of a family member.  
They were the ones who got to see ALL of his sides - good and bad.
They were the ones who got to worry endlessly about their son/brother being surrounded by horrible people because they give him what he wants.
They were the ones who got to stage futile interventions while watching their loved one deteriorate and slowly edge closer to their demise by their own hands.

We got to appeciate what he had to offer the world with his talent and generosity.
Did/do we REALLY know him?????
No.
We can feel like we did/do, but we didn't/don't.

As far as it being someone else who died, I guess that's possible.  But unless they legally changed their name to "Michael Joseph Jackson" then that person is not who's murder is being investigated...

I agree that the ambulance photo looks wrong, years old.  Which was one of my main reasons for doubting his death.
But then again, I think there's a lot more going on than what we're being allowed to see.  There may be other reasons why we've never seen a real pic of him in the ambulance.  And why some things don't add up.  I'm just becoming less hopeful that one of those reasons is that he's alive and happy.   :(

edited to add:  All of what I'm writing is assuming that he *did* have an addiction/dependancy problem as has been stated in the paperwork linked above as well as by his own family members and friends.  Sure, it could be a cover, but why unanimously slander him so he could fake his "death?"  It would also make the family less assertive in his "murder" as they can't really be sure that it's a "murder" if he was an addict who demanded too many medications.  Drug dealers aren't charged with murder because their clients overdose.
Sorry this is so long.   :oops:
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Offline SILVANA

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Re: Judge says its now a murder investigation

  • on: December 09, 2009, 11:08:44 AM
Quote from: "Tay3"
Well, this is something to think about, but we just have to wait and see what happens to Dr. Murray if and when he is charged with anything. That's the key to all of this IMO. But I feel very sure of one thing... the claims about him being dead in his home long before being taken to the hospital can't be true. If that really is MJ in the ambulance picture, he's definitely not dead. I have a nursing background and have seen people in this type of distress... (not breathing, weak or no pulse)... and the color of their skin can range from bluish purple to very ashen gray. Not only the face is discolored, but also areas of the chest and shoulders. I'm convinced that WAS NOT a dead person in the ambulance :!:



I agree, he didn't look like a dead man, no way.
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Offline Lou

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Re: Judge says its now a murder investigation

  • on: December 09, 2009, 06:04:49 PM
I opened the pdf file and checked the document. I noticed that the first page shows a date: November, 20th. It says "Filed november, 20th".  

We know that dr Murray was allowed to go back to work. The news reporting he was back to work was released by TMZ on November 23rd (http://http://www.tmz.com/2009/11/23/dr-conrad-murray-michael-jackson-texas-office-work-video/).  

What I find odd is that 3 days after the investigation turns into a murder investigation,  the prime suspect - a doctor - is allowed to practice medicine again. Unless I misunderstood something, he was already the target of a murder investigation, when he was allowed to go back to his work. It still doesn't make sense to me. :?
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Offline the_gloved_one

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Re: Judge says its now a murder investigation

  • on: December 09, 2009, 06:28:23 PM
Am i right in thinking that if a person isn't charged with a crime they are free to go i.e free to work etc...looks like the police can't make their minds up on what to charge Murray with plus, think about all the evidence they have to go through...You would expect the Jacksons to not rest until justice is done but, they all seem to be moving on and getting on with life. If i was Murray i would be sh**ting myself thinking about the charges that may/maynot be brought against me - how can he function with this on his mind? How is he not sick with worry? Something is just not right!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »


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