Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators
Hoax Investigation => General Hoax Investigation => Other Odd Things => Topic started by: wiZZkIDD on April 07, 2010, 03:13:29 PM
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Thriller - The healing really involves listening… learning each riddle.
BAD - Beyond All Doubt!
Dangerous – Don’t assume … nor guess… each random or unusual sign.
HIStory - Honesty is some times our reaching… yearning.
Invincible - Is normal vital instinct considered in believing literally everything?
Hey folks or fellow hoax investigators, as you know its me WizzKidd..if you havent seen my video yet i advise you to go watch it so you can be brought up to speed in what this post is about ;)..my new video which should be posted tomorrow or friday hopefully will be called "The Brave Doppelganger Hoax Investigation" i will say this now many things that i will be stating in my videos or post may be true but unpopular to those that dont belive but hopefully it will be something that will catch your attention.
Is it my strong believe that we have been looking at this hoax all wrong..well not completely lol but just been investigating it the wrong way..many people are trying find more and more clues to go forward but now a days there is very few :| ..my thing is this maybe its time for us to go back i mean wayyyy back to what was given us at the Memorial and Funeral..and to refresh your memories we were given pictures of Michael Jackson from the time he was born all the way up to the late 80's or Bad Era and Liberian Girl pictures included...Many question what was the theory and motive behind it..what could it all mean..To me i believe the Michael of that time is still the same Michael of today looks and all..but something happen in the 80's..something that we wasnt ready for but witness subconsciously an ILLUSION OR SWITCH..or better yet a replacement
Whether it was for the good or for bad..thats what Im going to try and figure out to the best of my ability and of course with the help of everyone here..we began to unravel the illusion and crack the code here..i know that we may not get the entire truth but i know that we can accomplish something to where people make there own judgement for themselves...The Doppelganger theory and The Twin Theory is going to be put into effect..with these two theories very well could be the missing link to all whats been going on for the past 9 months..here is what im goig to be looking with my theory.. Did MJ or actually a doppelganger marry Lisa Marie and/or Debbie Rowe?
-Did the doppelganger ever get big-headed and threaten to expose the secret if MJ didn't increase pay or grant more privileges?
-Did the doppelganger ever do anything bad or controversial that MJ got blamed for?
-Was it actually the doppelganger who underwent the facial changes leaving real MJ free to look more like his old self?
-Did MJ skip touring the US from 1989 on and use the doppelganger overseas because he would be detected in the US by friends/family/business associates?
That is what im going to be covering with my later videos and posts to come so stay tuned for that..and again i know and read many replies that people will feel betrayed if any one of these theories are true and i myself and Mo have stated to put feelings and emotions aside for moment and look at the bigger picture...i dont know how this going to end nor do i know if the ending will be happy or sad..but the overall goal of this Forum is to find out the TRUTH thats all nothing more and nothing less ;) right? and for those who have registered with this website most certainly have to believe in that like do :) so lets all join together including the nay-sayers and lets journey back to the beginning..its not gonna be easy its going to come with ups and down as this hoax already has..but if you ready.. really ready then follow me on this journey and ask yourself how far deep inside the rabbit hole are YOU willing to go? 8-)
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I can agree with you when you say something happened to Michael in the 80's...
what i want to know is ... what???
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well i have a hunch and it could be a lot things that played a role Replacement, pressure and limelight and others which i will present in later videos
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When exactly was it that MJ started wearing masks? I know it was after BAD but I cant place a date...
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What I would like to express is that this has been under our noses all this time and we simply have ignored (or did not want to face) that something was strange (not in a negative way) with Michael's appearance. Very slowly, we have come to the realization that this is the core of the hoax.
What really happened to Michael Jackson?
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What I would like to express is that this has been under our noses all this time and we simply have ignored (or did not want to face) that something was strange (not in a negative way) with Michael's appearance. Very slowly, we have come to the realization that this is the core of the hoax.
What really happened to Michael Jackson?
IGNORED???? Well excuse me, but we have been trying to bring this under the attention for FIVE months! All we got was bashing, ridiculing, we were banned for it and people saying it was an INSULT to Mike even considering there were doubles, for FIVE months!
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What I would like to express is that this has been under our noses all this time and we simply have ignored (or did not want to face) that something was strange (not in a negative way) with Michael's appearance. Very slowly, we have come to the realization that this is the core of the hoax.
What really happened to Michael Jackson?
IGNORED????????????!!
Sorry I have a question... Have you ever read ALL the forum over the past 5 months?
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What I would like to express is that this has been under our noses all this time and we simply have ignored (or did not want to face) that something was strange (not in a negative way) with Michael's appearance. Very slowly, we have come to the realization that this is the core of the hoax.
What really happened to Michael Jackson?
IGNORED???? Well excuse me, but we have been trying to bring this under the attention for FIVE months! All we got was bashing, ridiculing, we were banned for it and people saying it was an INSULT to Mike even considering there were doubles, for FIVE months!
yes i agree with you Mo..both you and Souza spent many months and time trying to explain the double theory to a lot of people..but im glad people are finally starting see the truth for what it really is
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What I would like to express is that this has been under our noses all this time and we simply have ignored (or did not want to face) that something was strange (not in a negative way) with Michael's appearance. Very slowly, we have come to the realization that this is the core of the hoax.
What really happened to Michael Jackson?
IGNORED???? Well excuse me, but we have been trying to bring this under the attention for FIVE months! All we got was bashing, ridiculing, we were banned for it and people saying it was an INSULT to Mike even considering there were doubles, for FIVE months!
yes i agree with you Mo..both you and Souza spent many months and time trying to explain the double theory to a lot of people..but im glad people are finally starting see the truth for what it really is
I can't believe people are actually willing to discuss this now all of the sudden. It is pissing me off really, why were we bashed for months, and now people say the doubles were ignored?
I'm sorry, I'm ordering my straight jacket on Ebay now...
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What I would like to express is that this has been under our noses all this time and we simply have ignored (or did not want to face) that something was strange (not in a negative way) with Michael's appearance. Very slowly, we have come to the realization that this is the core of the hoax.
What really happened to Michael Jackson?
IGNORED???? Well excuse me, but we have been trying to bring this under the attention for FIVE months! All we got was bashing, ridiculing, we were banned for it and people saying it was an INSULT to Mike even considering there were doubles, for FIVE months!
yes i agree with you Mo..both you and Souza spent many months and time trying to explain the double theory to a lot of people..but im glad people are finally starting see the truth for what it really is
lol :lol: Souza after all this you might want to order all of us one too
I can't believe people are actually willing to discuss this now all of the sudden. It is pissing me off really, why were we bashed for months, and now people say the doubles were ignored?
I'm sorry, I'm ordering my straight jacket on Ebay now...
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This is a great post... I always tought.. What if he isn't changed at all.. I mean. When he changed his nose,, all the media was tallking about it, I think he used the media to escape... The doppelganger changed all the time...
but then,, u see many many videos and pictures, MJ with his childeren.. And in this footage u see the MJ who is changed very dramaticly..
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First of all let me say thank you for all the time and effort you are putting into this.
Everything you have mentioned are all things I have also thought about and questioned. Unfortunately I don't have the time or the resources to research things as thoroughly as I would like to. So that is why I am grateful to someone like you who can bring this to the forefront so it can be investigated.
This should be very interesting. Maybe that is what was meant by the This Is It poster and DVD. "DISCOVER THE MAN YOU NEVER KNEW"
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I don't think this is anything to get worked up about guys...
One person said one word and yall freak! It's okay, really (:
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First of all let me say thank you for all the time and effort you are putting into this.
Everything you have mentioned are all things I have also thought about and questioned. Unfortunately I don't have the time or the resources to research things as thoroughly as I would like to. So that is why I am grateful to someone like you who can bring this to the forefront so it can be investigated.
This should be very interesting. Maybe that is what was meant by the This Is It poster and DVD. "DISCOVER THE MAN YOU NEVER KNEW"
I can't believe my eyes.......
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Happy Hour anyone? The bar is open and I'm buying the first round.
There are lots of new members as well as some returning members. Not everyone visits the archives to check on old threads. The number of double and triple posts proves that. Some people may not be aware that this topic has been discussed so it is new and exciting for them. Let's relax, have a drink or two and follow wiZZkiDD along this journey. From what has been shared thus far, we may be in for a fun yet bumpy ride.
Cheers!
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I don't think this is anything to get worked up about guys...
One person said one word and yall freak! It's okay, really (:
lol :lol: if they freaked its because they are intrigued and curious to find out the truth and im not posting anything new that hasnt been stated by Mo and Souza for the past 5 months and including others that felt the samy way ;)
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First of all let me say thank you for all the time and effort you are putting into this.
Everything you have mentioned are all things I have also thought about and questioned. Unfortunately I don't have the time or the resources to research things as thoroughly as I would like to. So that is why I am grateful to someone like you who can bring this to the forefront so it can be investigated.
This should be very interesting. Maybe that is what was meant by the This Is It poster and DVD. "DISCOVER THE MAN YOU NEVER KNEW"
I just wanna point this out...
It's NOT the first time that we are discussing doubles stuff, we have a lot of threads on that board.
Mo and Souza spent a lot of time and put a lot of efforts into that theory and what happened?
You know EXACTLY the reactions to their theory, a load of bashings and threats.
So please don't say that this is the first time that we are speaking about DOUBLES and DOPPELGANGER.
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Happy Hour anyone? The bar is open and I'm buying the first round.
There are lots of new members as well as some returning members. Not everyone visits the archives to check on old threads. The number of double and triple posts proves that. Some people may not be aware that this topic has been discussed so it is new and exciting for them. Let's relax, have a drink or two and follow wiZZkiDD along this journey. From what has been shared thus far, we may be in for a fun yet bumpy ride.
Cheers!
Sorry, but people are STILL posting in the Official Double Thread, and there are many new threads on the boards about the doubles as well. How come we now all of a sudden see people consider the existence of doubles who have been bashing and ridiculing us before? Don't get me wrong, I'm extremely happy that for some reason it now suddenly seems to be discussable, but on the other hand some reactions of the last 24 hours seriously piss me off...
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I thought most of were here for one thing...to find the truth. Maybe now is the right time for some to start looking at this theory and for others to start accepting it. We all don't see or want to see the same things at the same time. It certainly doesn't make anyone right or wrong.
History is full of stories of those who were ahead of their time in their thinking and were not accepted...it's human nature. What is the saying..."A prophet is without honor in his own country.
I'm grateful for everything everyone has said here and for their investigations...all of it...the believers and the non believers. It's the only way we will get to the truth.
Benjamin Franklin said it best (and we know the almost violent debates of our early fathers) "If everyone is thinking the same thing, no one is thinking."
Peace
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I don't think this is anything to get worked up about guys...
One person said one word and yall freak! It's okay, really (:
lol :lol: if they freaked its because they are intrigued and curious to find out the truth and im not posting anything new that hasnt been stated by Mo and Souza for the past 5 months and including others that felt the samy way ;)
I think we may be talking of 2 different things...I was talking about how someone had said the word ignored and people like attacked him or her for thinking this is the first time this issue has been brought up lol. I don't think it matters by whom the information comes from that opens peoples eyes to big ideas like this...as long as people are finally beginning to consider every aspect and not just their own should be the main focus. Who cares about who came up with it first??? Ya know what I mean?
BTW, I just watched your video and it was great! I'm still not sure how I feel about this, but the video was very convincing. I'll keep an open mind to this.
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I don't think this is anything to get worked up about guys...
One person said one word and yall freak! It's okay, really (:
lol :lol: if they freaked its because they are intrigued and curious to find out the truth and im not posting anything new that hasnt been stated by Mo and Souza for the past 5 months and including others that felt the samy way ;)
I think we may be talking of 2 different things...I was talking about how someone had said the word ignored and people like attacked him or her for thinking this is the first time this issue has been brought up lol. I don't think it matters by whom the information comes from that opens peoples eyes to big ideas like this...as long as people are finally beginning to consider every aspect and not just their own should be the main focus. Who cares about who came up with it first??? Ya know what I mean?
BTW, I just watched your video and it was great! I'm still not sure how I feel about this, but the video was very convincing. I'll keep an open mind to this.
It doesn't matter, but we have been ridiculed, called names, even threatened due to the theory, and all of the sudden it's ok to discuss. I just don't get that.
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I don't think this is anything to get worked up about guys...
One person said one word and yall freak! It's okay, really (:
lol :lol: if they freaked its because they are intrigued and curious to find out the truth and im not posting anything new that hasnt been stated by Mo and Souza for the past 5 months and including others that felt the samy way ;)
I think we may be talking of 2 different things...I was talking about how someone had said the word ignored and people like attacked him or her for thinking this is the first time this issue has been brought up lol. I don't think it matters by whom the information comes from that opens peoples eyes to big ideas like this...as long as people are finally beginning to consider every aspect and not just their own should be the main focus. Who cares about who came up with it first??? Ya know what I mean?
BTW, I just watched your video and it was great! I'm still not sure how I feel about this, but the video was very convincing. I'll keep an open mind to this.
It doesn't matter, but we have been ridiculed, called names, even threatened due to the theory, and all of the sudden it's ok to discuss. I just don't get that.
I truly am sorry, no one should be bashed for their opinions, but that is the least of our worries now (: Let's just be happy that has stopped and leave the past in the past. Atleast people are paying more attention to this though, right?
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Here you can see lots of pictures, where you can see that there are two Michaels.
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=8297&start=100 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=8297&start=100)
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I hear what you're saying loud and clear.
I can relate too. I gave a recommendation during a business meeting yesterday. It was shot down by some and ignored by others. Forty minutes later, a colleague changed the words and basically gave the same recommendation and he was applauded as a freaking genius visionary. I did go to Happy Hour for real after that crap.
In the spirit of full disclosure, wiZZkiDD has asked me for ideas for this project. I'm no vid creator but I did share some things for the tempo and theme of the project. wiZZkiDD would be wise to check the archives and not re-invent the wheel for the project. Plus, since you and Souza have worked tirelessly with the topic, wiZZkiDD would be working smart to consult with you two as well.
I look forward to seeing the results.
Happy Hour anyone? The bar is open and I'm buying the first round.
There are lots of new members as well as some returning members. Not everyone visits the archives to check on old threads. The number of double and triple posts proves that. Some people may not be aware that this topic has been discussed so it is new and exciting for them. Let's relax, have a drink or two and follow wiZZkiDD along this journey. From what has been shared thus far, we may be in for a fun yet bumpy ride.
Cheers!
Sorry, but people are STILL posting in the Official Double Thread, and there are many new threads on the boards about the doubles as well. How come we now all of a sudden see people consider the existence of doubles who have been bashing and ridiculing us before? Don't get me wrong, I'm extremely happy that for some reason it now suddenly seems to be discussable, but on the other hand some reactions of the last 24 hours seriously piss me off...
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So sorry if I offended anyone with my choice of words. The truth is I am pretty new to this forum and I have not read everything on here. As much as I would like to spend more time researching I can't. My personal obligations don't allow me this privelage.
It is very disheartening when everyone on here speaks of LOVE and respect but it seems like everytime I post something it is ridiculed. What happened to trying to find the truth and taking all opinions into consideration.
All I was trying to do is thank someone for their work and I get accused of being ignorant.
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I don't think this is anything to get worked up about guys...
One person said one word and yall freak! It's okay, really (:
lol :lol: if they freaked its because they are intrigued and curious to find out the truth and im not posting anything new that hasnt been stated by Mo and Souza for the past 5 months and including others that felt the samy way ;)
I think we may be talking of 2 different things...I was talking about how someone had said the word ignored and people like attacked him or her for thinking this is the first time this issue has been brought up lol. I don't think it matters by whom the information comes from that opens peoples eyes to big ideas like this...as long as people are finally beginning to consider every aspect and not just their own should be the main focus. Who cares about who came up with it first??? Ya know what I mean?
BTW, I just watched your video and it was great! I'm still not sure how I feel about this, but the video was very convincing. I'll keep an open mind to this.
Well.. that's not true.. just because we are in the doubles stuff since months, and you know what happened... Why NOW people is starting to consider the doubles "theory"? Maybe just because Mo and Souza didn't start this thread... :roll:
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I don't think this is anything to get worked up about guys...
One person said one word and yall freak! It's okay, really (:
lol :lol: if they freaked its because they are intrigued and curious to find out the truth and im not posting anything new that hasnt been stated by Mo and Souza for the past 5 months and including others that felt the samy way ;)
I think we may be talking of 2 different things...I was talking about how someone had said the word ignored and people like attacked him or her for thinking this is the first time this issue has been brought up lol. I don't think it matters by whom the information comes from that opens peoples eyes to big ideas like this...as long as people are finally beginning to consider every aspect and not just their own should be the main focus. Who cares about who came up with it first??? Ya know what I mean?
BTW, I just watched your video and it was great! I'm still not sure how I feel about this, but the video was very convincing. I'll keep an open mind to this.
Well..that's not true.. just because we are in the doubles stuff since months, and you know what happened... Why NOW people is starting to consider the doubles "theory"? Maybe just because Mo and Souza didn't start this thread... :roll:
I'm sorry if I offended you, that wasn't the intention.
If I read that correctly it seems like you are saying my opinion is not true. Of course, to you it may not be...but that is how I think lol, can't help that. If you truly cared about this information finally being noticed I PERSONALLY do not believe that it should matter who it came from. Again, that is MY opinion. It's not always about who gets credit, there's more to life than that.
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No, it doesn't matter where it comes from, we don't care about credits. What matters to me is first we posted Dave Dave, we were slandered! Now Dave Dave is ok.
Same is happening with the doubles now. I hope one day someone will post about MK Ultra and people will see that as a possibility as well, because then at least it would be worth the beatings...
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lol im only beginning to see what Mo and Souza went through
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It doesn't matter, but we have been ridiculed, called names, even threatened due to the theory, and all of the sudden it's ok to discuss. I just don't get that.
I think there are multiple reasons why it's ok now.
1)After 9 months of going over other, more "reasonable" possibilities, people are becoming more open to alternate possibilities.
2)After hearing something suggested here and there over the course of months, eventually, what may have been ridiculous at first becomes easier to accept as a possibility.
3)When the doubles theories were being presented initially, besides the backlash against it, there was also backlash against the backlash. :lol: So now, the people who initially opposed it may be more open to it because of the first 2 reasons and because it's coming from someone new.
Just my 2 cents.
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mmm, oke very short. Greatest show on earth. Severe (baby) elephant abuse. Baby elephants are taken away from their mothers when they are 18 months old. Abused with bullhooks, electroshocks, isolated and than tied to a grown up elephant. Takes 9 months to break the spirit of the elephant. Part of it similar to Mk ultra abuse.
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okay, i'm still on the fence about this one. i don't mean any disrespect but may i ask you why you think michael would have doubles/doppelgangers appear at award shows/concerts/appearances where people would wait in lines for days just to see a mere glimpse of him? if that happened while he was under the control of someone or a group of people, i can understand that he would have to go along with what they say, but if he broke free...why would he use them for events where he saw his fans? it just kind of makes me sad that people would go to great lengths just to be in his presence for a few seconds and it's not even the real michael jackson.
and also, where are these people now- the ones who have been given plastic surgery to look like exact copies of him? surely they have lives and they are living it. if this double/doppelganger thing occurred as far back as the BAD era, then are there many of them or just a few?
sorry, i'm trying to wrap my head around this idea. i am trying to be open to it!
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First of all let me say thank you for all the time and effort you are putting into this.
Everything you have mentioned are all things I have also thought about and questioned. Unfortunately I don't have the time or the resources to research things as thoroughly as I would like to. So that is why I am grateful to someone like you who can bring this to the forefront so it can be investigated.
This should be very interesting. Maybe that is what was meant by the This Is It poster and DVD. "DISCOVER THE MAN YOU NEVER KNEW"
I can't believe my eyes.......
Breathe....get the paper bag if you need to...breathe. :)
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okay, i'm still on the fence about this one. i don't mean any disrespect but may i ask you why you think michael would have doubles/doppelgangers appear at award shows/concerts/appearances where people would wait in lines for days just to see a mere glimpse of him? if that happened while he was under the control of someone or a group of people, i can understand that he would have to go along with what they say, but if he broke free...why would he use them for events where he saw his fans? it just kind of makes me sad that people would go to great lengths just to be in his presence for a few seconds and it's not even the real michael jackson.
and also, where are these people now- the ones who have been given plastic surgery to look like exact copies of him? surely they have lives and they are living it. if this double/doppelganger thing occurred as far back as the BAD era, then are there many of them or just a few?
sorry, i'm trying to wrap my head around this idea. i am trying to be open to it!
FOLLOW ME ON THIS THROUGH MY VIDEOS AND HOPEFULLY IT WILL ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS THAT YOU DO HAVE..AND IM GLAD THAT YOU ARE OPEN IT ;)
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What I would like to express is that this has been under our noses all this time and we simply have ignored (or did not want to face) that something was strange (not in a negative way) with Michael's appearance. Very slowly, we have come to the realization that this is the core of the hoax.
What really happened to Michael Jackson?
IGNORED???? Well excuse me, but we have been trying to bring this under the attention for FIVE months! All we got was bashing, ridiculing, we were banned for it and people saying it was an INSULT to Mike even considering there were doubles, for FIVE months!
It must be really hard to take guys but the timing is right for this now because you two laid all the ground work into the collective "soul" of we believers.
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It is so disheartening to hear people talking about others pissing them off or not believing everything that was ever posted here. I think that most everyone can agree that Michael did use doubles, but to what extreme, only Michael knows that.
I am open to most theories that are posted here, some that I don't know much about, I can't really support. I am not saying that it could not be true, I just don't know much about it. I don't have the extra free time to research until my fingers are bleeding. I love Michael as much as the next person, I just know in my heart that Michael would not want us to take time away from our children and time away from making this world a better place, to debunk everything he has ever done in his life. When and if he used the doubles, he probably used it to get some kind of privacy.
I applaud everyone for all the hardwork they have done in research and making videos and alot of it does make sense. I just feel there is no need to get harsh emotions involved when someone has started something that was posted before. Maybe the title just didn't catch attention like this one did or maybe the wording was just different. I know I have posted topics that some folks didn't catch on, but someone else started a topic that was similar to mine. I would not be offended in any way. I would just be happy that it was starting to get the attention that it needs. Remember ladies and gentlemen, it is all for L.O.V.E.
Of course, all that I have said, is just my opinion and mine alone. I support all of you on this forum. We all have been devasted by everything that has happened since June. I think that this emotional rollercoaster is getting the best of us, I know it has gotten the best of me at times. We all just want to know the truth and we all miss Michael.
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This is same reason I posted recommending people read up on Motown era.
That "Glorious" era was not so glorious behind the scenes. It was full of corruption,
control, MARKETING ploys that were not so sophisticated as today but still in effect.
I did not KNOW because I had never read into it.
Michael Jackson grew up in that world and then the advancement in place of ALL
technology.
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Because, Mo and Souza, you two have been the subject of a systematic smear campaign designed to discredit you by outside sources. They tried to shut you up by infiltrating and infecting the old board (one which shall not be named) and they were quite successful.
I saw it happen on the Dave Dave thread. Random usernames appearing to bash and slash, ridicule and taunt, meanwhile ADMIN and the other mods stood by and let you be burned at the stake. My posts on that thread saying HEY WTF IS GOING ON HERE were deleted (I have the last two screenshotted because it happened over and over and over and I caught on to what was going on) while them most vile, hateful personal attacks stood. Perhaps others had their posts of support deleted as well, I don't know. It was very purposeful what happened to you then. You were to be discredited because you said too much and you wouldn't be silenced.
Unfortunately, the very people who should look deeper and be suspect of everything they are told to believe bought this hook, line, and sinker, and went right along with it. Some use the term "hoaxer" very loosely when really the term "conformist" is more applicable.
Mo and Souza were and to some extent still are crucified and villified by someone or someones who think it is very important to shut them up. This is still going on.
The grace you two conducted yourselves with was admirable. You were treated horribly and never ONCE, not ONE TIME, fought back in kind. You treated your attackers with respect and civility and received nothing but abuse for it. It was awful. I was disgusted by it and it was one of the many times during the course of this investigation that I was flabbergasted that I seemed surrounded by people who were completely clueless to what was happening.
This situation here and now, on this thread and with this subject is proof as to what I speak of.
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When exactly was it that MJ started wearing masks? I know it was after BAD but I cant place a date...
Funny that you mention this, I always wondered myself. What I found out by reading my Toraborrelli book(MJ biography) just yesterday is that he started wearing them right after he went in for therapy for drugs during the 1993-94 Chandler molestation case. What I was reading really caught my attention because I had wondered this for months now and this was the 1st I had read of it so of course I could be wrong but I firmly believe it is when Michael started wearing them.
I read that after his therapy at Charter Centre in London, when he came back to US he debarked the plain wearing black trousers and red silk shirt and wearing a surgical mask. And I went huuh!! :shock: I felt that finally I got my answer regarding the surgical masks. Does anyone have different info on this? It would make sense though, because from what I read about the molestation thing back then it nearly killed Michael. Perhaps he felt betrayed not only by Jordie but also by his fans for buying such a rubbish story and who knows what it could have led to. :roll:
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TO MO & SOUZA :
I am sorry for what has been going on throughout this whole investigatioin, I am more or less aware of it because when I enter a thread where there is nothing but hate and bashing going on I normally exit it fairly quickly because I find it a waste of time to hang out there. :lol:
I for one have always thought highly of the both of you and I know I have complimented the 2 of you in different threads. You guys think out side the box and are not afraid to expose your thoughts and findings, wich I have always found very interesting by the way. I am a very deep person and I do believe in high profile sophisticated, planned to a T, theories and such. Personally I think those are the ones really worth looking into, some things in life are simple while others are very intricate. Michael was no simpleton so if you want to understand what is going on you must be able to kinda enter Michael's head and think like him.
Also I wanted to say that the 2 of you were probably bashed because some things in life take some getting use to before they can be looked at with face value. People are hurt by thinking that Michael may have been using a double so they want to hear nothing about it. Not sure if you know what I mean but it's like when you want nothing to do with something, it takes some getting use to the idea before you can actually acknowledge the possiblity of it because at first you are appauled by it and with time you start thinking.. ok well maybe it's not that bad...
Anyway I hope I helped you see a little more why this has happened to the 2 of you, you are probably just ahead of a lot of members in your line of thoughts and theories on the "death" and life of Michael.
Good thread by the way! :D
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It doesn't matter, but we have been ridiculed, called names, even threatened due to the theory, and all of the sudden it's ok to discuss. I just don't get that.
Hmmm, maybe you didn't call it a doppelganger ;) :lol: :lol: :lol: , lol I have no freaking idea what that is, but is it safe to assume that it is a dare I say the word 'DOUBLE'??!!! Mo and Souza, I am sorry I don't have an answer as to why everyone has a sudden change of heart...could it be desperation? Ok, I am off to wiki to look up doppelgangers, lol and then I will go watch this doppelganger video! :D
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wow..this really makes me nervous, but...i think i'll get into the rabbit hole too...wow...
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Lol l_s! If you find out what does it mean, post it please! I'm clueless too...
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What about other theories like
- He cloned himself
- He froze himself on 25 June 2009 and did not actually die - that would explain no body for burial and the fact that the family is not mourning his loss but they still talk about missing him.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 613AA6a2fO (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090708230613AA6a2fO)
If someone can watch the Brunei concert - I see two Michaels in that - one for the first half of the show one for the second. The bony face at the end of the show - could tiredness have made such a difference to his features? Actually the whole history tour - he looks very different in the first leg of the tour and very different in the second leg. I have seen clips of Australia, Munich, Helsinki, India and there is a fuller faced Michael in some and a bony faced Michael in the others. Only in the Brunei concert (which was vocally completely live) did I see the two Michaels perform at the same concert.
This brings me to the other thing that bothers me. If Michael had a double and only he could sing all the songs - why wasn't there a perfect live recording of all the songs for him to lip sync too. Remember about how the system would automatically takeover should he fail to sing. That means there would have to be a 100% vocal recorded somewhere for them to use for that purpose. Why wasn't that used in the movie. There were many parts that Michael did not sing and obviously he could not do that at the main concert.
This is off topic - but I am sure that we are going to get a 2nd DVD of a whole concert run through with Michael, all his moves and great vocals.
Mo/Souza this is really like the film Prestige - can you imagine the doubles being drowned in glass tanks??
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It doesn't matter, but we have been ridiculed, called names, even threatened due to the theory, and all of the sudden it's ok to discuss. I just don't get that.
It´s called "Human Nature", Souza ;)
Cheers!
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It is so disheartening to hear people talking about others pissing them off or not believing everything that was ever posted here.
Since I was the one who said was pissed off, this part of your post is addressed to me.
Again - the reason why I got pissed off is NOT because people didn't believe us when we posted the original theory and all that we have posted about doubles the following five months. Everybody is entitled to an opinion, period. I got pissed off because some replies made it appear like it was the first time a post about doubles appeared. The most pissed off I got is when I saw people's positive reply to WiZZKiDD's thread, while they have been bashing and ridiculing Souza and me when we posted about it.
It's exactly like Bec said: (Thank You Bec):
Because, Mo and Souza, you two have been the subject of a systematic smear campaign designed to discredit you by outside sources. They tried to shut you up by infiltrating and infecting the old board (one which shall not be named) and they were quite successful.
Mo and Souza were and to some extent still are crucified and villified by someone or someones who think it is very important to shut them up. This is still going on.
[/b]
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I am glad that I read that piece too. For better or worse the entertainment business is manufactured and molded to create an illusion. There is the illusion that it is void of bad things. Everyone smiles and is happy within that world. Wrong perception indeed. It is comprised of people...good and bad ones. When someone is raised within an environment, the person cannot help but absorb some, if not a lot, of what he or she has been exposed to and taught.
This is same reason I posted recommending people read up on Motown era.
That "Glorious" era was not so glorious behind the scenes. It was full of corruption,
control, MARKETING ploys that were not so sophisticated as today but still in effect.
I did not KNOW because I had never read into it.
Michael Jackson grew up in that world and then the advancement in place of ALL
technology.
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It is so disheartening to hear people talking about others pissing them off or not believing everything that was ever posted here.
Since I was the one who said was pissed off, this part of your post is addressed to me.
Again - the reason why I got pissed off is NOT because people didn't believe us when we posted the original theory and all that we have posted about doubles the following five months. Everybody is entitled to an opinion, period. I got pissed off because some replies made it appear like it was the first time a post about doubles appeared. The most pissed off I got is when I saw people's positive reply to WiZZKiDD's thread, while they have been bashing and ridiculing Souza and me when we posted about it.
It's exactly like Bec said: (Thank You Bec):
Because, Mo and Souza, you two have been the subject of a systematic smear campaign designed to discredit you by outside sources. They tried to shut you up by infiltrating and infecting the old board (one which shall not be named) and they were quite successful.
Mo and Souza were and to some extent still are crucified and villified by someone or someones who think it is very important to shut them up. This is still going on.
[/b]
The intent of my post was not to bash or piss off anyone. I simply wanted to say thank you for time and effort. Like I said before. I have not been a member of this board for very long. I do not have a lot of time to spend doing any research and I'm sorry to say that I do not get to read all threads.
Your response to my post really caught me off guard and quite honestly I was offended. I don't particularly like to be called ignorant or stupid. I do not post often but I have never once been offensive, disrespectful or rude to anyone. That is not the kind of person I am so please do not put me in that catagory.
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Tomorrow i will be posting my next video..im looking forward to what you guys think and say..please leave all the negative comments to yourself if you have nothing nice to say ;)..im all for opinions but not when its one that demeaning and cruel
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Tomorrow i will be posting my next video..im looking forward to what you guys think and say..please leave all the negative comments to yourself if you have nothing nice to say ;)..im all for opinions but not when its one that demeaning and cruel
Ok... thanks ;)
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First of all let me say thank you for all the time and effort you are putting into this.
Everything you have mentioned are all things I have also thought about and questioned. Unfortunately I don't have the time or the resources to research things as thoroughly as I would like to. So that is why I am grateful to someone like you who can bring this to the forefront so it can be investigated.
This should be very interesting. Maybe that is what was meant by the This Is It poster and DVD. "DISCOVER THE MAN YOU NEVER KNEW"
I can't believe my eyes.......
HAHAHHAHAAHHAAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHHHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAH
i leave for a month or so and NOW everything thinks/knows/ see that there has been doubles for atleast 20years :roll: at this point if/when mj comes back, if he does, i wouldnt even be shocked it he was still black :lol: "meet the man you never knew" LMAO but seriously it would be easier to use doubles with lighter skin,glasses and wigs :D
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It is so disheartening to hear people talking about others pissing them off or not believing everything that was ever posted here.
Since I was the one who said was pissed off, this part of your post is addressed to me.
Again - the reason why I got pissed off is NOT because people didn't believe us when we posted the original theory and all that we have posted about doubles the following five months. Everybody is entitled to an opinion, period. I got pissed off because some replies made it appear like it was the first time a post about doubles appeared. The most pissed off I got is when I saw people's positive reply to WiZZKiDD's thread, while they have been bashing and ridiculing Souza and me when we posted about it.
It's exactly like Bec said: (Thank You Bec):
Because, Mo and Souza, you two have been the subject of a systematic smear campaign designed to discredit you by outside sources. They tried to shut you up by infiltrating and infecting the old board (one which shall not be named) and they were quite successful.
Mo and Souza were and to some extent still are crucified and villified by someone or someones who think it is very important to shut them up. This is still going on.
[/b]
The intent of my post was not to bash or piss off anyone. I simply wanted to say thank you for time and effort. Like I said before. I have not been a member of this board for very long. I do not have a lot of time to spend doing any research and I'm sorry to say that I do not get to read all threads.
Your response to my post really caught me off guard and quite honestly I was offended. I don't particularly like to be called ignorant or stupid. I do not post often but I have never once been offensive, disrespectful or rude to anyone. That is not the kind of person I am so please do not put me in that catagory.
Mo didn't call you ignorant, stupid, rude, offensive, or disrespectful or anything even remotely like that. Where are you getting this from????
This is what I'm talking about. Neither Mo nor Souza can type a single thing on even their own damn forum without fielding a thousand unfounded and unjustified accusations for it. No matter what they say they will get flamed for it. No. Matter. What.
You want to talk about being labeled? You just accused Mo of doing something she didn't even come close to doing at any point here. All someone has to do is read what you wrote and they assume it's true. I searched the entire thread and didn't find a single post of the nature you are illuding to. NOT EVEN CLOSE.
Mo and Souza have endured a great deal of abuse they didn't deserve and I HATE IT.
IT REALLY BOTHERS ME. IT NEEDS TO STOP.
THEY NEVER FIGHT BACK AND YET THE SHIT CONTINUES TO BE HURLED ON THEM.
It's hateful, it's systematic, and it's purposeful. Don't you see? Don't you see what's going on? SOMEONE WANTED THEM GONE A LONG TIME AGO. I think they were played for awhile but grew too influencial and unfortunatly for the puppetmaster, they were smarter then it anticiated and got to digging around too much and sharing too much WITH US and the plan backfired and something needed to be done.
They way they went about it was really quite clever and genius, I'll give it that. Much more effective to cut them off at the knees by discrediting them then to hope they would either just go away or continue to take the bait and parrot the information like good girls.
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I don't know what else to say except that I do not know what went on on this board before two months ago. Any issues that happened before that I was not aware of so if I am to be accused of anything I would say it would be uniformed.
I was just taken aback that that's all and standing up for myself. I was not labeling anyone
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Bec, from your post I am finding out that I have indeed been ignorant to much that has been going on. Threats you say?
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First of all let me say thank you for all the time and effort you are putting into this.
Everything you have mentioned are all things I have also thought about and questioned. Unfortunately I don't have the time or the resources to research things as thoroughly as I would like to. So that is why I am grateful to someone like you who can bring this to the forefront so it can be investigated.
This should be very interesting. Maybe that is what was meant by the This Is It poster and DVD. "DISCOVER THE MAN YOU NEVER KNEW"
I can't believe my eyes.......
HAHAHHAHAAHHAAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHHHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAH
i leave for a month or so and NOW everything thinks/knows/ see that there has been doubles for atleast 20years :roll: at this point if/when mj comes back, if he does, i wouldnt even be shocked it he was still black :lol: "meet the man you never knew" LMAO but seriously it would be easier to use doubles with lighter skin,glasses and wigs :D
Did you just say that out loud? Oh my, you got some balls girl! If you need a rock to hide under, Mo and I have a huge one, there's room for more. And I wouldn't be surprised either. I think there is nothing that would surprise us, since every theory crossed our minds, and I mean EVERY theory (brain gets fried sometimes ;) )
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The theory of the double has been ridiculed by many people in other forums in other languages, I think that sometimes many people do not say anything (and I include myself) for not reading reviews that try to ridicule this or that maybe there are people who do not like hearing these things and get upset, this is a forum for research and we will get things that maybe we do not like, it shouldn't be that MJ is a human being like any of us.
The blog about mind control is another issue that some people do not like to comment, but these things exist and is not an invention, have written books about this, and will get a lot of internet pages and testimonials from people who have been vistimas this, so ... open mind. Discucion It's good that you're being given and that we are participating is a good sign. ;)
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First of all let me say thank you for all the time and effort you are putting into this.
Everything you have mentioned are all things I have also thought about and questioned. Unfortunately I don't have the time or the resources to research things as thoroughly as I would like to. So that is why I am grateful to someone like you who can bring this to the forefront so it can be investigated.
This should be very interesting. Maybe that is what was meant by the This Is It poster and DVD. "DISCOVER THE MAN YOU NEVER KNEW"
I can't believe my eyes.......
HAHAHHAHAAHHAAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHHHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAH
i leave for a month or so and NOW everything thinks/knows/ see that there has been doubles for atleast 20years :roll: at this point if/when mj comes back, if he does, i wouldnt even be shocked it he was still black :lol: "meet the man you never knew" LMAO but seriously it would be easier to use doubles with lighter skin,glasses and wigs :D
Did you just say that out loud? Oh my, you got some balls girl! If you need a rock to hide under, Mo and I have a huge one, there's room for more. And I wouldn't be surprised either. I think there is nothing that would surprise us, since every theory crossed our minds, and I mean EVERY theory (brain gets fried sometimes ;) )
Well it would surprise me, and if that is the case, bye-bye to a lot of respect for MJ from a lot of peeps (self included) and I would sure wonder how he ever said he was proud of his heritage- well boy did you show it, genius, by hiding it for ages.. Ughghghghgh...
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First of all let me say thank you for all the time and effort you are putting into this.
Everything you have mentioned are all things I have also thought about and questioned. Unfortunately I don't have the time or the resources to research things as thoroughly as I would like to. So that is why I am grateful to someone like you who can bring this to the forefront so it can be investigated.
This should be very interesting. Maybe that is what was meant by the This Is It poster and DVD. "DISCOVER THE MAN YOU NEVER KNEW"
I can't believe my eyes.......
HAHAHHAHAAHHAAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHHHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAH
i leave for a month or so and NOW everything thinks/knows/ see that there has been doubles for atleast 20years :roll: at this point if/when mj comes back, if he does, i wouldnt even be shocked it he was still black :lol: "meet the man you never knew" LMAO but seriously it would be easier to use doubles with lighter skin,glasses and wigs :D
Did you just say that out loud? Oh my, you got some balls girl! If you need a rock to hide under, Mo and I have a huge one, there's room for more. And I wouldn't be surprised either. I think there is nothing that would surprise us, since every theory crossed our minds, and I mean EVERY theory (brain gets fried sometimes ;) )
Well it would surprise me, and if that is the case, bye-bye to a lot of respect for MJ from a lot of peeps (self included) and I would sure wonder how he ever said he was proud of his heritage- well boy did you show it, genius, by hiding it for ages.. Ughghghghgh...
Pink sweety, you really need to take a break. First of all we are speculating, no one is claiming to speak the truth. Besides that, whatever story is true, I have read so many things about his life the past months, that whatever he decided to do to get some privacy and safety in his life, I would never blame him and all I can hope is that whatever will come out in the upcoming weeks/months/years, that people will at least TRY to understand what he had to endure in his life. Don't think about yourself here, you can never compare your view on things with his, and you should be lucky for that. Besides that, it's impossible and unfair to be mad at someone and accuse someone that hasn't even spoken himself and can't speak up for himself now. Wait with your accusations until you heard the words coming from HIS mouth, instead of a few hoaxers that have lived in a padded cell for months already. "Prejudice is ignorance"
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First of all let me say thank you for all the time and effort you are putting into this.
Everything you have mentioned are all things I have also thought about and questioned. Unfortunately I don't have the time or the resources to research things as thoroughly as I would like to. So that is why I am grateful to someone like you who can bring this to the forefront so it can be investigated.
This should be very interesting. Maybe that is what was meant by the This Is It poster and DVD. "DISCOVER THE MAN YOU NEVER KNEW"
I can't believe my eyes.......
HAHAHHAHAAHHAAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHHHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAH
i leave for a month or so and NOW everything thinks/knows/ see that there has been doubles for atleast 20years :roll: at this point if/when mj comes back, if he does, i wouldnt even be shocked it he was still black :lol: "meet the man you never knew" LMAO but seriously it would be easier to use doubles with lighter skin,glasses and wigs :D
Did you just say that out loud? Oh my, you got some balls girl! If you need a rock to hide under, Mo and I have a huge one, there's room for more. And I wouldn't be surprised either. I think there is nothing that would surprise us, since every theory crossed our minds, and I mean EVERY theory (brain gets fried sometimes ;) )
Well it would surprise me, and if that is the case, bye-bye to a lot of respect for MJ from a lot of peeps (self included) and I would sure wonder how he ever said he was proud of his heritage- well boy did you show it, genius, by hiding it for ages.. Ughghghghgh...
Pink sweety, you really need to take a break. First of all we are speculating, no one is claiming to speak the truth. Besides that, whatever story is true, I have read so many things about his life the past months, that whatever he decided to do to get some privacy and safety in his life, I would never blame him and all I can hope is that whatever will come out in the upcoming weeks/months/years, that people will at least TRY to understand what he had to endure in his life. Don't think about yourself here, you can never compare your view on things with his, and you should be lucky for that. Besides that, it's impossible and unfair to be mad at someone and accuse someone that hasn't even spoken himself and can't speak up for himself now. Wait with your accusations until you heard the words coming from HIS mouth, instead of a few hoaxers that have lived in a padded cell for months already. "Prejudice is ignorance"
HEhe, you got me with the cell thing, LOL! I know I belong there too, with all my temper issues.. I can't stop myself sometimes. I'm constantly conflicted and I really hope I haven't come off as a complete ass toward MJ, I know I have sounded really terrible, but all of these months I HAVE been doing exactly what you said here: at least TRY to understand what he had to endure in his life. Don't think about yourself here, you can never compare your view on things with his, and you should be lucky for that. Besides that, it's impossible and unfair to be mad at someone and accuse someone that hasn't even spoken himself and can't speak up for himself now.
I've cried and felt horrible for him WAY more all of this time than I have for myself, and I think that's whay I'm like this now, I've bottled all feelings concerning myself up for quite a while. I've exploded at anyone and everyone who critisized him or judged him harshly sine the 25th.. I hope I came across clearer now, I guess you could say any selfishness or anger toward him for these hard times is finally coming up now after being buried in my sympathy and intense pity and sorrow for him.. I just wish everything was easier and better for him, I really, really do..EDIT: I think the use of the words "Michael" and "deception" together that have been spoken about with such seeming excitment or something like that lately just triggered some irrational anger in me finally, and I know I'll beat myself up over this as more time goes on, because I've been so allergic to anything negative toward Michael, first from the 25th and then from what I've learned from the hoax.. Anything that makes me ask "why do things have to be this way for someone who only wants to love and be loved? Why, why, why, why?" I've avoided.. But you know what? That anger these past few days has been so irrational that I've forgotten where it all SHOULD be going, and that's to the.. I'm not even gonna waste time trying to think of foul-enough words to use for each and every asshole who did ANYTHING to hurt him for their own gain..
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its not about not being proud of his heritage.you skin color doesnt make you who you are plus im sure there would be more to it.
here is my theory:
people keep talking shit about him saying he wanted to be white,he was weird,he was gay ect. so he "became" or acted on all of those things! its was all a show, i think everything we have been seeing since, at least, the bad era is fake, or staged. No respect lost on my part, all gained for having the balls to do that.
also did you ever think that him being the "master of disguise" was talking more about him going in public dressed up, the make up,hair,glasses, hats ect but in his private time he looked like the thriller Mj??? did you ever think that it would be easier for him not only to have a regular life but do things with his kids if we, the public, didnt really know what he looked like??? how could people harm him if they didnt know it was him? who would ever think that they were in the movies sitting next to mj if he was still darker? or who would harm or treat his kids bad if they didnt have any idea what the real prince/paris/blanket looked like? i think its brilliant!
I think people need to think more about him as a person and his kids instead of how you would feel. I personally think that if i am correct and we didnt know what he looked like for , protection,his kids and/or to make a fool of the media then im all for it
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its not about not being proud of his heritage.you skin color doesnt make you who you are plus im sure there would be more to it.
here is my theory:
people keep talking shit about him saying he wanted to be white,he was weird,he was gay ect. so he "became" or acted on all of those things! its was all a show, i think everything we have been seeing since, at least, the bad era is fake, or staged. No respect lost on my part, all gained for having the balls to do that.
also did you ever think that him being the "master of disguise" was talking more about him going in public dressed up, the make up,hair,glasses, hats ect but in his private time he looked like the thriller Mj??? did you ever think that it would be easier for him not only to have a regular life but do things with his kids if we, the public, didnt really know what he looked like??? how could people harm him if they didnt know it was him? who would ever think that they were in the movies sitting next to mj if he was still darker? or who would harm or treat his kids bad if they didnt have any idea what the real prince/paris/blanket looked like? i think its brilliant!
I think people need to think more about him as a person and his kids instead of how you would feel. I personally think that if i am correct and we didnt know what he looked like for , protection,his kids and/or to make a fool of the media then im all for it
seriously cool theory
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its not about not being proud of his heritage.you skin color doesnt make you who you are plus im sure there would be more to it.
here is my theory:
people keep talking shit about him saying he wanted to be white,he was weird,he was gay ect. so he "became" or acted on all of those things! its was all a show, i think everything we have been seeing since, at least, the bad era is fake, or staged. No respect lost on my part, all gained for having the balls to do that.
also did you ever think that him being the "master of disguise" was talking more about him going in public dressed up, the make up,hair,glasses, hats ect but in his private time he looked like the thriller Mj??? did you ever think that it would be easier for him not only to have a regular life but do things with his kids if we, the public, didnt really know what he looked like??? how could people harm him if they didnt know it was him? who would ever think that they were in the movies sitting next to mj if he was still darker? or who would harm or treat his kids bad if they didnt have any idea what the real prince/paris/blanket looked like? i think its brilliant!
I think people need to think more about him as a person and his kids instead of how you would feel. I personally think that if i am correct and we didnt know what he looked like for , protection,his kids and/or to make a fool of the media then im all for it
First of all, any person in "the public" who would harm them if they saw them is an ass. Next, EVEN if he wanted to protect his own kids, using other kids in their place, putting THEM in danger is pretty cruel, if you ask me. Making other kids who have their own lives and families pretend for years is.. Ugh. He may as well have just make-believed that he had none rather than do that. As for Michael, he doesn't look different from Thriller to now aside from the skin and nose, in my opinion, but we all know he has vitiligo (Thanks most likely to the Illuminati, as Mo and Souza have said), and we all also know that the only reason he appears white-skinned is because it was very bad and spreading all over him. How delighted the severe-vitiligo-suffering community will be to hear/see this insensitive news. And it's just my opinon, but I really don't see the fun or glory in making the media correct for so many years and giving them and the aforementioned asses in the public more and more leverage to tear you down and bear hatred against you. I know he liked to fool around with the media but these are serious issues, especially the vitiligo, and it seemed to cause him real suffering, although, of course that was probably just more fine acting on the part of the Oscar-deserving Michael, now wasn't it..? This: its was all a show, i think everything we have been seeing since, at least, the bad era is fake, or staged.
may be deserving of respect for the HUGE hassle it presented, but it sure does also take away a HUGE amount of likability and sincerity from his personality- it's like, damn, man, can't you do ANYTHING for real? Isn't the world phony and superficial enough? His life is hard, true, but just about every other celebrity or important figure handles it well on their own- without all the pretend games. That's my opinion..
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First of all, any person in "the public" who would harm them if they saw them is an ass.
but there are asses out there like that! people treat celebs like they are not human
Next, EVEN if he wanted to protect his own kids, using other kids in their place, putting THEM in danger is pretty cruel, if you ask me. Making other kids who have their own lives and families pretend for years is.. Ugh.
you seen how they are protected, and if you think about it we rarely seen him with the kids AND there face was covered, we might have seen photos of them all out but who knows when and where those were taken
As for Michael, he doesn't look different from Thriller to now aside from the skin and nose, in my opinion, but we all know he has vitiligo (Thanks most likely to the Illuminati, as Mo and Souza have said), and we all also know that the only reason he appears white-skinned is because it was very bad and spreading all over him. How delighted the severe-vitiligo-suffering community will be to hear/see this insensitive news.
im not saying he didnt have it, im saying that i dont think he got as light as he looked. The bad video was in 1987 and he was pretty light BUT in 1989 in the liberian girl video he was brown, he wasnt as dark as he was b4 BUT darker than he was in lets say captain EO. How is that possible? i also agree, i dont think hes face changed, only his nose but the lighting of his skin cause an illusion that there was drastic changes, and doubles of course
And it's just my opinon, but I really don't see the fun or glory in making the media correct for so many years and giving them and the aforementioned asses in the public more and more leverage to tear you down and bear hatred against you.
they were already tearing him down for doing nothing!!!! so why not let them tear you down about things that are not true????
I know he liked to fool around with the media but these are serious issues, especially the vitiligo, and it seemed to cause him real suffering, although, of course that was probably just more fine acting on the part of the Oscar-deserving Michael, now wasn't it..? This:
klien did say he was a great actor! lol but seriously the way the media ruins lives and the things the illumanti does to people is serious also! protecting yourself and your kids is also serious and if it takes doubles and illusions to throw people off then thats what you have to do. Not being able to live a normal life is serious also and im sure he had plenty of time to think of how he could do that
may be deserving of respect for the HUGE hassle it presented, but it sure does also take away a HUGE amount of likability and sincerity from his personality- it's like, damn, man, can't you do ANYTHING for real? Isn't the world phony and superficial enough? His life is hard, true, but just about every other celebrity or important figure handles it well on their own- without all the pretend games. That's my opinion..
i dont think that other celebs handle it well, and i bet there is alot more "pretending" going on that you think. and other celebs are not MJ, he is thee most famous person in the world and none of us could ever image how that feels. dislike?sincerity? For arguement sake lets say im right, how could u not like him for doing what he had to do to be a normal man? and live a normal life? remeber he didnt ask for this......
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First of all, any person in "the public" who would harm them if they saw them is an ass.
but there are asses out there like that! people treat celebs like they are not human
Next, EVEN if he wanted to protect his own kids, using other kids in their place, putting THEM in danger is pretty cruel, if you ask me. Making other kids who have their own lives and families pretend for years is.. Ugh.
you seen how they are protected, and if you think about it we rarely seen him with the kids AND there face was covered, we might have seen photos of them all out but who knows when and where those were taken
As for Michael, he doesn't look different from Thriller to now aside from the skin and nose, in my opinion, but we all know he has vitiligo (Thanks most likely to the Illuminati, as Mo and Souza have said), and we all also know that the only reason he appears white-skinned is because it was very bad and spreading all over him. How delighted the severe-vitiligo-suffering community will be to hear/see this insensitive news.
im not saying he didnt have it, im saying that i dont think he got as light as he looked. The bad video was in 1987 and he was pretty light BUT in 1989 in the liberian girl video he was brown, he wasnt as dark as he was b4 BUT darker than he was in lets say captain EO. How is that possible? i also agree, i dont think hes face changed, only his nose but the lighting of his skin cause an illusion that there was drastic changes, and doubles of course
And it's just my opinon, but I really don't see the fun or glory in making the media correct for so many years and giving them and the aforementioned asses in the public more and more leverage to tear you down and bear hatred against you.
they were already tearing him down for doing nothing!!!! so why not let them tear you down about things that are not true????
I know he liked to fool around with the media but these are serious issues, especially the vitiligo, and it seemed to cause him real suffering, although, of course that was probably just more fine acting on the part of the Oscar-deserving Michael, now wasn't it..? This:
klien did say he was a great actor! lol but seriously the way the media ruins lives and the things the illumanti does to people is serious also! protecting yourself and your kids is also serious and if it takes doubles and illusions to throw people off then thats what you have to do. Not being able to live a normal life is serious also and im sure he had plenty of time to think of how he could do that
may be deserving of respect for the HUGE hassle it presented, but it sure does also take away a HUGE amount of likability and sincerity from his personality- it's like, damn, man, can't you do ANYTHING for real? Isn't the world phony and superficial enough? His life is hard, true, but just about every other celebrity or important figure handles it well on their own- without all the pretend games. That's my opinion..
i dont think that other celebs handle it well, and i bet there is alot more "pretending" going on that you think. and other celebs are not MJ, he is thee most famous person in the world and none of us could ever image how that feels. dislike?sincerity? For arguement sake lets say im right, how could u not like him for doing what he had to do to be a normal man? and live a normal life? remeber he didnt ask for this......
you should be a boxer lol :D because you went round for round in explaining your theory and getting your point across
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First of all, any person in "the public" who would harm them if they saw them is an ass.
but there are asses out there like that! people treat celebs like they are not human
Next, EVEN if he wanted to protect his own kids, using other kids in their place, putting THEM in danger is pretty cruel, if you ask me. Making other kids who have their own lives and families pretend for years is.. Ugh.
you seen how they are protected, and if you think about it we rarely seen him with the kids AND there face was covered, we might have seen photos of them all out but who knows when and where those were taken
As for Michael, he doesn't look different from Thriller to now aside from the skin and nose, in my opinion, but we all know he has vitiligo (Thanks most likely to the Illuminati, as Mo and Souza have said), and we all also know that the only reason he appears white-skinned is because it was very bad and spreading all over him. How delighted the severe-vitiligo-suffering community will be to hear/see this insensitive news.
im not saying he didnt have it, im saying that i dont think he got as light as he looked. The bad video was in 1987 and he was pretty light BUT in 1989 in the liberian girl video he was brown, he wasnt as dark as he was b4 BUT darker than he was in lets say captain EO. How is that possible? i also agree, i dont think hes face changed, only his nose but the lighting of his skin cause an illusion that there was drastic changes, and doubles of course
And it's just my opinon, but I really don't see the fun or glory in making the media correct for so many years and giving them and the aforementioned asses in the public more and more leverage to tear you down and bear hatred against you.
they were already tearing him down for doing nothing!!!! so why not let them tear you down about things that are not true????
I know he liked to fool around with the media but these are serious issues, especially the vitiligo, and it seemed to cause him real suffering, although, of course that was probably just more fine acting on the part of the Oscar-deserving Michael, now wasn't it..? This:
klien did say he was a great actor! lol but seriously the way the media ruins lives and the things the illumanti does to people is serious also! protecting yourself and your kids is also serious and if it takes doubles and illusions to throw people off then thats what you have to do. Not being able to live a normal life is serious also and im sure he had plenty of time to think of how he could do that
may be deserving of respect for the HUGE hassle it presented, but it sure does also take away a HUGE amount of likability and sincerity from his personality- it's like, damn, man, can't you do ANYTHING for real? Isn't the world phony and superficial enough? His life is hard, true, but just about every other celebrity or important figure handles it well on their own- without all the pretend games. That's my opinion..
i dont think that other celebs handle it well, and i bet there is alot more "pretending" going on that you think. and other celebs are not MJ, he is thee most famous person in the world and none of us could ever image how that feels. dislike?sincerity? For arguement sake lets say im right, how could u not like him for doing what he had to do to be a normal man? and live a normal life? remeber he didnt ask for this......
you should be a boxer lol :D because you went round for round in explaining your theory and getting your point across
I cant find your 2nd vid, could you kindly please post the link to it? Thank you.
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How can you say other celebrities are handling it well, when
there have been about 10 deaths this year due to depression
and drugs and that not counting the number in clinics?
It's not just celebrities either with their "fake" lives and image
they feel they have to live up to.
Everyone is doing the best they can and we don't know what
Michael felt he had to do, as we can't know what anyone does
to cope with different pressures and conflicts they face.
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you should be a boxer lol :D because you went round for round in explaining your theory and getting your point across
*sigh* I know I'm the "villain" about out all of this, but I'm not exactly in the meltdown state I was in the other day..
First of all, any person in "the public" who would harm them if they saw them is an ass.
but there are asses out there like that! people treat celebs like they are not human
Seeing as most of this seems to come from them, I don't even really know if we should call ourselves his 'fans', seeing as other peeps probably think of those barbarians that chase him around when they say that word..
Next, EVEN if he wanted to protect his own kids, using other kids in their place, putting THEM in danger is pretty cruel, if you ask me. Making other kids who have their own lives and families pretend for years is.. Ugh.
you seen how they are protected, and if you think about it we rarely seen him with the kids AND there face was covered, we might have seen photos of them all out but who knows when and where those were taken
I see what you mean about them going out, but if you mean all of those photos and videos that have come out since the 25th like them at Neverland and stuff- I don't see how those kids in all of that aren't the ones we've been seeing now or how not one picture of him with his "real kids" wouldn't have leaked, however, I don't really think we should be dissecting innocent children, no matter who they are, in this.
As for Michael, he doesn't look different from Thriller to now aside from the skin and nose, in my opinion, but we all know he has vitiligo (Thanks most likely to the Illuminati, as Mo and Souza have said), and we all also know that the only reason he appears white-skinned is because it was very bad and spreading all over him. How delighted the severe-vitiligo-suffering community will be to hear/see this insensitive news.
im not saying he didnt have it, im saying that i dont think he got as light as he looked. The bad video was in 1987 and he was pretty light BUT in 1989 in the liberian girl video he was brown, he wasnt as dark as he was b4 BUT darker than he was in lets say captain EO. How is that possible? i also agree, i dont think hes face changed, only his nose but the lighting of his skin cause an illusion that there was drastic changes, and doubles of course
Now here is where I seemed to really misunderstand, and I apologize. IMO he looks darker in EO and lighter in L Girl though! Actually, he seems to be using a weird shade in LG that he never used again. BTW very off, but I absolutely ADORE the way he looks in that and the song..one of my favorites. And I see what you mean about the fakes causing confusion about his looks, I agree.
And it's just my opinon, but I really don't see the fun or glory in making the media correct for so many years and giving them and the aforementioned asses in the public more and more leverage to tear you down and bear hatred against you.
they were already tearing him down for doing nothing!!!! so why not let them tear you down about things that are not true????
Well because than he's just feeding the fire that they're tearing him down with, period, and you shouldn't give them any reason to do that at all! Because then, the more they tear, the more the public whose support you need believes and turns against you or just generally thinks you're TOO weird to even emphasize with, as I also read in that newspaper article, and your voice gets weaker and weaker.. But I was still misunderstood about the vitiligo thing here, so I think our opinions equally contribute.. which is confusing.
I know he liked to fool around with the media but these are serious issues, especially the vitiligo, and it seemed to cause him real suffering, although, of course that was probably just more fine acting on the part of the Oscar-deserving Michael, now wasn't it..? This:
klien did say he was a great actor! lol but seriously the way the media ruins lives and the things the illumanti does to people is serious also! protecting yourself and your kids is also serious and if it takes doubles and illusions to throw people off then thats what you have to do. Not being able to live a normal life is serious also and im sure he had plenty of time to think of how he could do that
I still thought you meant about vitiligo here, and I understand better now.
may be deserving of respect for the HUGE hassle it presented, but it sure does also take away a HUGE amount of likability and sincerity from his personality- it's like, damn, man, can't you do ANYTHING for real? Isn't the world phony and superficial enough? His life is hard, true, but just about every other celebrity or important figure handles it well on their own- without all the pretend games. That's my opinion..
i dont think that other celebs handle it well, and i bet there is alot more "pretending" going on that you think. and other celebs are not MJ, he is thee most famous person in the world and none of us could ever image how that feels. dislike?sincerity? For arguement sake lets say im right, how could u not like him for doing what he had to do to be a normal man? and live a normal life? remeber he didnt ask for this......
That may be so about other celebs, but I think we're a little generous about that most famous man in the world thing, nowadays especially. People like Madonna, Pitt and Jolie, Beyonce' are awfully close to his level of recognition around the world, and much as I hate to say it, certainly more well- respected and again, now, probably more popular.. Like I said I understand what you mean a lot better now, but I just hope that besides his appearance he has been real and sincere and not phony..
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I see what you mean about them going out, but if you mean all of those photos and videos that have come out since the 25th like them at Neverland and stuff- I don't see how those kids in all of that aren't the ones we've been seeing now or how not one picture of him with his "real kids" wouldn't have leaked, however, I don't really think we should be dissecting innocent children, no matter who they are, in this.
what im saying is if we all agree that this is a hox, and we all agree that this is has been planned for a long time, before 1996, how far fetched is it that he had the SAME KIDS AS HIS KIDS?? what if those are really klines or debbies kids and they are ok with it? he has known them there whole life? also note that we didnt see the footage until AFTER DEATH, without the faces blurried..how hard is it to have the kids a couple of times a year for an outting, or xmas footage or photoshoots to make it seem more real? without that footage who would have know those WERE the same kids we seen at the memorial? also princes hair was dyed and currently it looks like they all wear lace front wigs so we STILL may not know what they really look like....
People wanted to see mike with kids and married rite? he gave them what they wanted, just wasnt the real deal. if you go back to his diane sawyer interview and watch the man in the mirror movie with all of that in mind it will make more sense!
Now here is where I seemed to really misunderstand, and I apologize. IMO he looks darker in EO and lighter in L Girl though! Actually, he seems to be using a weird shade in LG that he never used again. BTW very off, but I absolutely ADORE the way he looks in that and the song..one of my favorites. And I see what you mean about the fakes causing confusion about his looks, I agree.
If you go to youtube and watch the captain eo footage and then look at him at the end of LB he is darker. I agree that he looks soo hadsome in that video! and there is no doubt that that is him at the end
Well because than he's just feeding the fire that they're tearing him down with, period, and you shouldn't give them any reason to do that at all! Because then, the more they tear, the more the public whose support you need believes and turns against you or just generally thinks you're TOO weird to even emphasize with, as I also read in that newspaper article, and your voice gets weaker and weaker.. But I was still misunderstood about the vitiligo thing here, so I think our opinions equally contribute.. which is confusing.
I think he has vitiligo! i also think that gave it to him and it was there plan to destroy his career and also for the black community to not like him. There is a difference in being tore down for no reason AND giving them a reason just because. Reguardless they were going to do it so why not plant events or do things to cause drama aka PR. celebs do it all the time.
That may be so about other celebs, but I think we're a little generous about that most famous man in the world thing, nowadays especially. People like Madonna, Pitt and Jolie, Beyonce' are awfully close to his level of recognition around the world, and much as I hate to say it, certainly more well- respected and again, now, probably more popular.. Like I said I understand what you mean a lot better now, but I just hope that besides his appearance he has been real and sincere and not phony
NO ONE is as popular as mj is/was there is no celeb that you can compare to mj in the 80s! and as far as him being sincere i think he was. When i say phony i mean , the wifes,kids, doubles and some of the PR stunts..blanket dangling, the mask ect. him wanting a better world, not fake, his love for people, not fake and thats all that matters. so what if we may have never seen his real wifes or kids? so what if he is actually still brown and doesnt have long hair? he was still a humanitarian and a great artist. just because your famous doesnt mean that everyone has to know you business and just because your famous doesnt mean you kids/wife have to be either. giving his kids the chance to go to real schools, have real friends who like them for them and a childhood is priceless. him being about to do things and go places with his family without being harrassed is priceless. remember he said family first
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do you think 1998 could mean 1989?
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do you think 1998 could mean 1989?
What are you reffering to? Where is the 1998 coming from? :?
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do you think 1998 could mean 1989?
What are you reffering to? Where is the 1998 coming from? :?
well there is a thread on here and titles something about 1998..and people suspected that Michael was predicting the year he would die or the year he would start the hoax...my theory is that maybe 1998 could be subliminal for 1989 being the year that michael said that he the Bad Tour to be his last
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I see what you mean about them going out, but if you mean all of those photos and videos that have come out since the 25th like them at Neverland and stuff- I don't see how those kids in all of that aren't the ones we've been seeing now or how not one picture of him with his "real kids" wouldn't have leaked, however, I don't really think we should be dissecting innocent children, no matter who they are, in this.
what im saying is if we all agree that this is a hox, and we all agree that this is has been planned for a long time, before 1996, how far fetched is it that he had the SAME KIDS AS HIS KIDS?? what if those are really klines or debbies kids and they are ok with it? he has known them there whole life? also note that we didnt see the footage until AFTER DEATH, without the faces blurried..how hard is it to have the kids a couple of times a year for an outting, or xmas footage or photoshoots to make it seem more real? without that footage who would have know those WERE the same kids we seen at the memorial? also princes hair was dyed and currently it looks like they all wear lace front wigs so we STILL may not know what they really look like....
People wanted to see mike with kids and married rite? he gave them what they wanted, just wasnt the real deal.
That last line, who cares if they want to see that or not? You handle your buisness and tell them to shut up and stay out of it, unless they want to be lied to and made to feel like idiots- although people didn't even believe that he loved her OR that those kids are even his, so further proof what a great idea THAT was..
Now here is where I seemed to really misunderstand, and I apologize. IMO he looks darker in EO and lighter in L Girl though! Actually, he seems to be using a weird shade in LG that he never used again. BTW very off, but I absolutely ADORE the way he looks in that and the song..one of my favorites. And I see what you mean about the fakes causing confusion about his looks, I agree.
If you go to youtube and watch the captain eo footage and then look at him at the end of LB he is darker. I agree that he looks soo hadsome in that video! and there is no doubt that that is him at the end
Well because than he's just feeding the fire that they're tearing him down with, period, and you shouldn't give them any reason to do that at all! Because then, the more they tear, the more the public whose support you need believes and turns against you or just generally thinks you're TOO weird to even emphasize with, as I also read in that newspaper article, and your voice gets weaker and weaker.. But I was still misunderstood about the vitiligo thing here, so I think our opinions equally contribute.. which is confusing.
I think he has vitiligo! i also think that gave it to him and it was there plan to destroy his career and also for the black community to not like him. There is a difference in being tore down for no reason AND giving them a reason just because. Reguardless they were going to do it so why not plant events or do things to cause drama aka PR. celebs do it all the time.
I guess you have a point there.
That may be so about other celebs, but I think we're a little generous about that most famous man in the world thing, nowadays especially. People like Madonna, Pitt and Jolie, Beyonce' are awfully close to his level of recognition around the world, and much as I hate to say it, certainly more well- respected and again, now, probably more popular.. Like I said I understand what you mean a lot better now, but I just hope that besides his appearance he has been real and sincere and not phony
NO ONE is as popular as mj is/was there is no celeb that you can compare to mj in the 80s! and as far as him being sincere i think he was. When i say phony i mean , the wifes,kids, doubles and some of the PR stunts..blanket dangling, the mask ect. him wanting a better world, not fake, his love for people, not fake and thats all that matters. so what if we may have never seen his real wifes or kids? so what if he is actually still brown and doesnt have long hair? he was still a humanitarian and a great artist. just because your famous doesnt mean that everyone has to know you business and just because your famous doesnt mean you kids/wife have to be either. giving his kids the chance to go to real schools, have real friends who like them for them and a childhood is priceless. him being about to do things and go places with his family without being harrassed is priceless. remember he said family first
Well first of all I love his long hair! JK, jk, but the idea of long DREADLOCKS is absolutely appealing, too, LOL! I see what you mean about his family, and I often think about all the secret relationships he may have had. I hope if he's in one now and if those those aren't his kids we get to see the real ones- they don't have to be famous, of course, but I hope if they aren't what we've seen that we get to see their REAL, LOVING connection and feel so happy for him, right? If that is the case than I wish he hadn't talked about himself as if he were suffering so badly if he was happy in private, because I'll tell that before the 25th I cried a few times just out of feeling sorry for him.. if he did hide all that family buisness don't you agree that it's not such a good choice to not have at least SAID something like, "But I feel so loved off of the stage, you don't even know" instead of letting everyone get all depressed and feeling so sorry for him? (I just got through reading posts from other members just hours earlier who were getting all teary about his lonliness)
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That last line, who cares if they want to see that or not? You handle your buisness and tell them to shut up and stay out of it, unless they want to be lied to and made to feel like idiots- although people didn't even believe that he loved her OR that those kids are even his, so further proof what a great idea THAT was.
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I think the things with the kids and wifes were to give people something to talk about, both being white women, THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH INTERRACIAL DATING, but with them saying he wanted to be white. the kiss with lisa marie, debbie rowe! and the kids not looking mixed,NOT SAYING ALL MIXED PEOPLE LOOK THE SAME. Princes hair was bleached blond when he was a kid..lol no mom for the kids, lying about if they were his or not, concieved natural or not. I think the point of that was all PR it kept his name in the media, it kept people talking!it wasnt suppose to be believable, just like all the doubles, i think people where suppose to catch on along time ago but didnt
[Well first of all I love his long hair! JK, jk, but the idea of long DREADLOCKS is absolutely appealing, too, LOL! I see what you mean about his family, and I often think about all the secret relationships he may have had. I hope if he's in one now and if those those aren't his kids we get to see the real ones- they don't have to be famous, of course, but I hope if they aren't what we've seen that we get to see their REAL, LOVING connection and feel so happy for him, right? If that is the case than I wish he hadn't talked about himself as if he were suffering so badly if he was happy in private
I also think he had plenty of relationships! I also want to see his kids! i hope they look just like him lol I dont think he was lying about being unhappy. I think with any famous person there is a struggle with finding someone you trust ect and the fact that he even had to do this is sad and maybe the kids and wifes are a mirror of his real life just with "actors" 2 divorces, 3 or 4 kids, different mothers, single father,kids before marriage..ect i guess time will tell
, because I'll tell that before the 25th I cried a few times just out of feeling sorry for him.. if he did hide all that family buisness don't you agree that it's not such a good choice to not have at least SAID something like, "But I feel so loved off of the stage, you don't even know" instead of letting everyone get all depressed and feeling so sorry for him? (I just got through reading posts from other members just hours earlier who were getting all teary about his lonliness)
but maybe he was lonely off stage, maybe he knew he only had a small, small circle. Maybe hes kids were all he had like he said,even with dating. you can date/marry/have children and still feel lonely
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That last line, who cares if they want to see that or not? You handle your buisness and tell them to shut up and stay out of it, unless they want to be lied to and made to feel like idiots- although people didn't even believe that he loved her OR that those kids are even his, so further proof what a great idea THAT was.
.
I think the things with the kids and wifes were to give people something to talk about, both being white women, THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH INTERRACIAL DATING, but with them saying he wanted to be white. the kiss with lisa marie, debbie rowe! and the kids not looking mixed,NOT SAYING ALL MIXED PEOPLE LOOK THE SAME. Princes hair was bleached blond when he was a kid..lol no mom for the kids, lying about if they were his or not, concieved natural or not. I think the point of that was all PR it kept his name in the media, it kept people talking!it wasnt suppose to be believable, just like all the doubles, i think people where suppose to catch on along time ago but didnt
Hm, I think those kids look biracial and like him, but they could be like nephews and a niece or something.. I also think that if he wanted people to talk about interracial dating he would have set it up so it would be done in a more positive way.
[Well first of all I love his long hair! JK, jk, but the idea of long DREADLOCKS is absolutely appealing, too, LOL! I see what you mean about his family, and I often think about all the secret relationships he may have had. I hope if he's in one now and if those those aren't his kids we get to see the real ones- they don't have to be famous, of course, but I hope if they aren't what we've seen that we get to see their REAL, LOVING connection and feel so happy for him, right? If that is the case than I wish he hadn't talked about himself as if he were suffering so badly if he was happy in private
I also think he had plenty of relationships! I also want to see his kids! i hope they look just like him lol I dont think he was lying about being unhappy. I think with any famous person there is a struggle with finding someone you trust ect and the fact that he even had to do this is sad and maybe the kids and wifes are a mirror of his real life just with "actors" 2 divorces, 3 or 4 kids, different mothers, single father,kids before marriage..ect i guess time will tell
, because I'll tell that before the 25th I cried a few times just out of feeling sorry for him.. if he did hide all that family buisness don't you agree that it's not such a good choice to not have at least SAID something like, "But I feel so loved off of the stage, you don't even know" instead of letting everyone get all depressed and feeling so sorry for him? (I just got through reading posts from other members just hours earlier who were getting all teary about his lonliness)
but maybe he was lonely off stage, maybe he knew he only had a small, small circle. Maybe hes kids were all he had like he said,even with dating. you can date/marry/have children and still feel lonely
You're right I suppose, I just pray all the time that it hasn't been as intensely lonely as some think.. he DOES NOT deserve that. Thanks for the interesting talk, LOL.. and I still wanna see him in dreadlocks! (It would look especially interesting and one-of-a-kind in like HIStory or Vince or the recent years)
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do you think 1998 could mean 1989?
What are you reffering to? Where is the 1998 coming from? :?
well there is a thread on here and titles something about 1998..and people suspected that Michael was predicting the year he would die or the year he would start the hoax...my theory is that maybe 1998 could be subliminal for 1989 being the year that michael said that he the Bad Tour to be his last
Did the dangerous era come right after the BAD era? Cause if this is the case maybe it meant that it was the year he broke free, that he started fighting back and stopped being controlled and used by illuminati/NWO? If we buy into this illuminati and NWO theory? Just a thought I guess. :?