Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators

Hoax Investigation => General Hoax Investigation => Other Odd Things => Topic started by: keyboardwizz on March 19, 2010, 11:00:16 PM

Title: Defenitive proof Michael uses doubles
Post by: keyboardwizz on March 19, 2010, 11:00:16 PM
While watching This is it tonight (had a nice evening with Mo) I (we) noticed the following:

For the sake of continuity of the live performance of Thriller there has to be a double in Tii, I'll explain why:

-No way someone can actualy leave the stage, change costume and get in a spider under 4 seconds.
It 's just the old disapear and reapear magic trick, wich is pulled of by using ......... doubles.

-In the part after he crawls out of the spider, he barely sings........ (so who is the puppetmaster now)

After the song Kenny says : " Make sure there is somebody waiting for Michael there  with a flashlight and everything"

Well, you need a flashlight to get on stage, not to get off.(and I have personale experience).....
So what Kenny is saying, there has to be someone ready to help the "real" Michael Jackson on stage, probably in a new costume....... (that's what rehearsals are for)

Yes I know , on the DVD they sliced 2 rehearsals together, but my point is:

They never could pull of these costume changes, without the use of a double


Point clear??? .........  End of discusion.

NOWAY "IT WAS ALL MICHAEL" IN THIS IS IT
Title: Re: Defenitive proof Michael uses doubles
Post by: *Mo* on March 19, 2010, 11:11:02 PM
Thanks for posting this keyboardwizz, and thanks for a lovely evening!
Title: Re: Defenitive proof Michael uses doubles
Post by: 2good2btrue on March 19, 2010, 11:19:09 PM
I agree 100%.  It's all part of the illusion.  Those photos on another topic, show a stunt double in Smooth Criminal, and the other double is there to help the dancers rehearse when MJ wasn't able to be there.  KO said that himself.  But why show that on DVD????  Is it to arouse suspicion?????    With love  L.O.V.E  xox :D  :D  :D  ;)  ;)  ;)
Title: Re: Defenitive proof Michael uses doubles
Post by: shakespere25 on March 19, 2010, 11:23:38 PM
I don't think it was a big secret really.  His own dad mentioned them....
Title: Re: Defenitive proof Michael uses doubles
Post by: awesome1 on March 19, 2010, 11:25:03 PM
wasnt michael to open thriller coming out of the spider???
Title: Re: Defenitive proof Michael uses doubles
Post by: Jacksonology on March 20, 2010, 12:45:35 AM
great post keyboard wizz  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Defenitive proof Michael uses doubles
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on March 20, 2010, 12:52:43 AM
I've always thought that this was definitely Michael (the attached photo) because not only does he look very similar to michael, he's really the only one without glasses, and in the main menu, they show stills from this is it, and they only show "this" michael.

But can someone explain to me why he used doubles?  :?
Title: Re: Defenitive proof Michael uses doubles
Post by: SiMTii on March 20, 2010, 01:01:05 AM
Yeah, the spider was supposed to be for the opening of Thriller (despite the fact the concerts were never going to take place.....so far), recall the video opening the song in This Is It. It ends with the big black widow spider emerging and approaching the camera (audience). I also realize that that wasn't how they did it in the video, but I don't have time to analyze that right now. I dunno, just thought i'd point that out.
Title: Re: Defenitive proof Michael uses doubles
Post by: Jacksonology on March 20, 2010, 02:00:13 AM
Quote from: "MJFAN7"
I've always thought that this was definitely Michael (the attached photo) because not only does he look very similar to michael, he's really the only one without glasses, and in the main menu, they show stills from this is it, and they only show "this" michael.

But can someone explain to me why he used doubles?  :?
I'm thinking, either he was Busy planning the Hoax or he wanted to do more behind the camera work. he did state in his 2005 Geraldo interview ''i wanna do a film. something big, something large'' Idk about you guys but i think this is a double:(http://http://2fm.rte.ie/blogs/2fminbox/michael-jackson-this-is-it-rehearsal.jpg) he looks way different then the attached photo MJFan7 has  :geek:
Title: Re: Defenitive proof Michael uses doubles
Post by: vilte90 on March 20, 2010, 05:56:48 AM
Quote from: "Jacksonology"
Quote from: "MJFAN7"
I've always thought that this was definitely Michael (the attached photo) because not only does he look very similar to michael, he's really the only one without glasses, and in the main menu, they show stills from this is it, and they only show "this" michael.

But can someone explain to me why he used doubles?  :?
I'm thinking, either he was Busy planning the Hoax or he wanted to do more behind the camera work. he did state in his 2005 Geraldo interview ''i wanna do a film. something big, something large'' Idk about you guys but i think this is a double:(http://http://2fm.rte.ie/blogs/2fminbox/michael-jackson-this-is-it-rehearsal.jpg) he looks way different then the attached photo MJFan7 has  :geek:

I think it's def real Mike. Just a few of them in TII were doubles I think.
Title: Re: Defenitive proof Michael uses doubles
Post by: msteetee34 on March 20, 2010, 06:07:15 AM
I was thinking that it was him the entire movie but he did look different on some parts of the movie.  So it could be possible.  I know he used E Casanova in the Who is it? video.  I notice when he is talking to Kenny O. and he says that's a cool move he had a deep cleft in his chin and his lips look really pink.  Then on other parts the cleft didn't look as deep in his chin.  I know one of the dancers said that he would show up for rehearsal sporadically.  So apparently he missed some rehearsals.  I also read that Kenny made sure to film him when ever he showed up so who knows?  I know he was dancing very different in those orange leggings.  I wonder who picked his outfits for that movie because some of them were kinda odd.  He looked good on the part when he is talking to Michael Beardon at the keyboard and he's wearing all black.  He had his hair down and it's all curly.
Title: Re: Defenitive proof Michael uses doubles
Post by: MJ_92_Believe on March 20, 2010, 06:24:24 AM
Quote from: "SiMTii"
Yeah, the spider was supposed to be for the opening of Thriller (despite the fact the concerts were never going to take place.....so far), recall the video opening the song in This Is It. It ends with the big black widow spider emerging and approaching the camera (audience). I also realize that that wasn't how they did it in the video, but I don't have time to analyze that right now. I dunno, just thought i'd point that out.

Exactly.

Plus the fact that that scene started on a different day, so you can't say at all that it fitted in with the order of the performance.

I.e. it is NOT definitive proof, at all.
Title: Re: Defenitive proof Michael uses doubles
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 20, 2010, 08:08:46 AM
Of course it's not proof, nothing is. The man is not an idiot.

If there's proof then there will be no illusion anymore ;)
Title: Re: Defenitive proof Michael uses doubles
Post by: Jacksonology on March 20, 2010, 08:11:29 AM
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Of course it's not proof, nothing is. The man is not an idiot.

If there's proof then there will be no illusion anymore ;)
Agreed. ;)
Title: Re: Defenitive proof Michael uses doubles
Post by: badkolo on March 20, 2010, 08:12:30 AM
cmon we know there are double
Title: Re: Defenitive proof Michael uses doubles
Post by: keyboardwizz on March 20, 2010, 10:29:07 AM
My point for posting this was to prove that it was technically impossible,
I don't need no proof, but a lot of people should wake up and open their eyes

It 's all about finding out the truth
Title: Re: Defenitive proof Michael uses doubles
Post by: somekindofsign on March 20, 2010, 10:41:50 AM
Sorry, but I don´t understand what´s technically impossible.
We see the sprider in Cluver studios, fade to the spider emerging (white pants man pulling from into it), fade to MJ coming out of it... cut and edit in TII the movie.

We don´t know how they were doing it alive... I guess spider video plus dancers and lighting movement on stage...

Or I missunderstood what you mean.
Title: Re: Defenitive proof Michael uses doubles
Post by: keyboardwizz on March 20, 2010, 03:53:54 PM
Quote from: "MJFAN7"
I've always thought that this was definitely Michael (the attached photo) because not only does he look very similar to michael, he's really the only one without glasses, and in the main menu, they show stills from this is it, and they only show "this" michael.

But can someone explain to me why he used doubles?  :?

I just did......
Title: Re: Defenitive proof Michael uses doubles
Post by: awesome1 on March 20, 2010, 04:16:53 PM
well yea we all know tha michael used doubles .... he used them to clear crazy fans away from hotels, he sent them in ambulances to hospitals to create a distraction and also for a bit of a joke, and he used a double in Dangerous tour, during thriller at the end, also in HIStory.  TII DVD showed that during Dirty Diana, the bed would be "engulfed with flames" and tha michael would be on the bed with the aerialist, but the double was going to appear at that point so michael could get ready, and with the bed in "flames" nobody would know the wiser.

but what i dont get is that, i 100% believe its all michael in TII and it would take some seriously hard evidence to convince me otherwise, but why would he need to have a double at the rehersal if the only purpose was for Dirty Diana, which we have been told was never rehearsed.  if he wanted to see what it would look like on stage, Travis would play michael.

Yes Orange pants, michael does look a bit off, but Remember Michael HATED to Tour.... he said this on the private home videos, so youd think michael being michael, knowing all the songs and steps, that he would get kinda peeved rehearsing stuff that he has been doing all his life :lol:

i acually forgot what i was going to say next so .... yeah  :lol:
Title: Re: Defenitive proof Michael uses doubles
Post by: steffmaster1 on March 20, 2010, 05:05:24 PM
he wanted to direct to needed doubles :)
Title: Re: Defenitive proof Michael uses doubles
Post by: mikestanek1 on March 20, 2010, 05:22:48 PM
This doesn't prove doubles one bit.  And in my honest opinion doubles were only used for stunts and for MJ to see what the show would look like from the seats.  Everyone says red pants MJ was a double.  Really?  Would a double have known the the growl in The Way You Make Me Feel was off cued and get upset about it?  I couldn't see that.  And you know what, it's MJ's voice.  People could say all day long that it wasn't him, it wasn't him....well it was. Get over it.  Just because the whole spider thing and 4 seconds doesn't mean anything.  The movie was bit and pieces glued together to make a movie.  Sure they might have had straight through footage, but they had to make it look like they didn't.  So in Thriller it was Michael coming out of the spider for sure.  It wasn't like we saw him singing and dancing and then 4 seconds later he is coming out of a spider live.  It's bits and pieces.  Keep that in mind.
Title: Re: Defenitive proof Michael uses doubles
Post by: *Mo* on March 20, 2010, 05:24:07 PM
Quote from: "awesome1"
but Remember Michael HATED to Tour.... he said this on the private home videos

O2 had NOTHING to do with touring!  He would have had a house there, and do 2-3 gigs a week.  The most annoying and exhausting thing about touring is the traveling, and getting adjusted to different time zones time after time.  Since none of that would have happened during the O2 gigs, you should disregard that statement.
Title: Re: Defenitive proof Michael uses doubles
Post by: loma on March 20, 2010, 05:27:35 PM
Quote from: "somekindofsign"
Sorry, but I don´t understand what´s technically impossible.
We see the sprider in Cluver studios, fade to the spider emerging (white pants man pulling from into it), fade to MJ coming out of it... cut and edit in TII the movie.

We don´t know how they were doing it alive... I guess spider video plus dancers and lighting movement on stage...

Or I missunderstood what you mean.

If you looked closely enough, there was a man pushing the spider.
Then Michael came in from under it using the toaster.
Title: Re: Defenitive proof Michael uses doubles
Post by: *Mo* on March 20, 2010, 05:32:49 PM
Quote from: "loma"
Quote from: "somekindofsign"
Sorry, but I don´t understand what´s technically impossible.
We see the sprider in Cluver studios, fade to the spider emerging (white pants man pulling from into it), fade to MJ coming out of it... cut and edit in TII the movie.

We don´t know how they were doing it alive... I guess spider video plus dancers and lighting movement on stage...

Or I missunderstood what you mean.

If you looked closely enough, there was a man pushing the spider.
Then Michael came in from under it using the toaster.

You're not getting the point.  During a live performance there's simply not enough time for Mike to do the song, get off stage, crawl under the spider, get wheeled on stage again and crawl out.  Watch that scene, it only takes 3-4 seconds.
Title: Re: Defenitive proof Michael uses doubles
Post by: loma on March 20, 2010, 05:39:48 PM
Myeah.  :| I get it.
But I'm sure they used a sh**load of editing.

While the spider is crawling out, they lower him on the toaster, then when he's under the spider, they push him back up. That's what I thought I saw happen. But maybe you guys are right?
Title: Re: Defenitive proof Michael uses doubles
Post by: awesome1 on March 20, 2010, 06:03:04 PM
Quote from: "*Mo*"
Quote from: "awesome1"
but Remember Michael HATED to Tour.... he said this on the private home videos

O2 had NOTHING to do with touring!  He would have had a house there, and do 2-3 gigs a week.  The most annoying and exhausting thing about touring is the traveling, and getting adjusted to different time zones time after time.  Since none of that would have happened during the O2 gigs, you should disregard that statement.

yea ok point taken.

but what still doesnt make any sense ( apart from the whole thing tbh) is that why would michael, being a perfectionist want to film This is it, using a double?? and try to pass this off as it being him on the stage??

im not bothered by the fact that he uses one so that he has enough time to change costume, its the fact that people think that he used a double for the majority of the rehersal, if it is, well god damn its a bloody perfect double  :lol:
Title: Re: Defenitive proof Michael uses doubles
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on March 20, 2010, 09:13:52 PM
Quote from: "keyboardwizz"
Quote from: "MJFAN7"
I've always thought that this was definitely Michael (the attached photo) because not only does he look very similar to michael, he's really the only one without glasses, and in the main menu, they show stills from this is it, and they only show "this" michael.

But can someone explain to me why he used doubles?  :?

I just did......

I understand your point, but it's a movie so couldn't they just turn the cameras off while he changed or cut out the part where he was back changing?
Title: Re: Defenitive proof Michael uses doubles
Post by: Jacksonology on March 20, 2010, 09:26:49 PM
Quote from: "MJFAN7"
Quote from: "keyboardwizz"
Quote from: "MJFAN7"
I've always thought that this was definitely Michael (the attached photo) because not only does he look very similar to michael, he's really the only one without glasses, and in the main menu, they show stills from this is it, and they only show "this" michael.

But can someone explain to me why he used doubles?  :?

I just did......

I understand your point, but it's a movie so couldn't they just turn the cameras off while he changed or cut out the part where he was back changing?
Honestly, I tend to believe that the ''small camera screen view'' with just Red 7 shirt and grey suit jacket is MJ and the ''FULL SCREEN'' view camera has the doubles in it.
Title: Re: Defenitive proof Michael uses doubles
Post by: TracyK on March 20, 2010, 09:33:03 PM
There is no doubt that he used them on stage for a little rest. But he never used them for his appearances! EVER!
Title: Re: Defenitive proof Michael uses doubles
Post by: keyboardwizz on March 21, 2010, 06:17:53 AM
Quote from: "TracyK"
There is no doubt that he used them on stage for a little rest. But he never used them for his appearances! EVER!

Just open your, eyes it's all about ILLusion, All smoke and mirrors.
It's not about Michaelit's about US.
Title: Re: Defenitive proof Michael uses doubles
Post by: shaqspear on March 21, 2010, 06:13:21 PM
I hope they are no doubles becaus if he used double then maybe he was really sick and couldn't be there for the rehearsal and maybe he died for real
Title: Re: Defenitive proof Michael uses doubles
Post by: Dancing_Machine on March 21, 2010, 06:19:26 PM
Nope still not buying the double story. And never will... :geek:
Title: Re: Defenitive proof Michael uses doubles
Post by: Eva R on March 22, 2010, 02:15:07 AM
Quote from: "Dancing_Machine"
Nope still not buying the double story. And never will... :geek:
me too :D
Title: Re: Defenitive proof Michael uses doubles
Post by: Sangre on March 22, 2010, 02:45:16 AM
We know Michael Jackson has used doubles and impersonators (and/or probably still uses them). Even his driver noted that during Dangerour tour MJ asked lookalikes to mislead paparazzi.

I just wanted to tell you that there's no need to re-invent a bike while there are plenty of other things to focus on.
Title: Re: Defenitive proof Michael uses doubles
Post by: Jacksonology on March 22, 2010, 02:47:09 AM
Quote from: "Sangre"
We know Michael Jackson has used doubles and impersonators (and/or probably still uses them). Even his driver noted that during Dangerour tour MJ asked lookalikes to mislead paparazzi.

I just wanted to tell you that there's no need to re-invent a bike while there are plenty of other things to focus on.
Agreed. There really shouldn't be no more double threads. If anyone isn't convinced of doubles now They just aren't.
Title: Re: Defenitive proof Michael uses doubles
Post by: Sangre on March 22, 2010, 02:52:26 AM
Quote from: "Jacksonology"
Quote from: "Sangre"
We know Michael Jackson has used doubles and impersonators (and/or probably still uses them). Even his driver noted that during Dangerour tour MJ asked lookalikes to mislead paparazzi.

I just wanted to tell you that there's no need to re-invent a bike while there are plenty of other things to focus on.
Agreed. There really shouldn't be no more double threads. If anyone isn't convinced of doubles now They just aren't.


Michael used doubles (and so do many other singers, actors, public figures) and it's a fact.

With twins (two MJ theory) it's another story. How could anyone buy that?
Title: Re: Defenitive proof Michael uses doubles
Post by: Jacksonology on March 22, 2010, 03:03:37 AM
Quote from: "Sangre"
Quote from: "Jacksonology"
Quote from: "Sangre"
We know Michael Jackson has used doubles and impersonators (and/or probably still uses them). Even his driver noted that during Dangerour tour MJ asked lookalikes to mislead paparazzi.

I just wanted to tell you that there's no need to re-invent a bike while there are plenty of other things to focus on.
Agreed. There really shouldn't be no more double threads. If anyone isn't convinced of doubles now They just aren't.


Michael used doubles (and so do many other singers, actors, public figures) and it's a fact.

With twins (two MJ theory) it's another story. How could anyone buy that?
yeah the twin theory  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  but there were doubles in this is it and in his public appearances
Title: Re: Defenitive proof Michael uses doubles
Post by: Sangre on March 22, 2010, 03:09:40 AM
Quote from: "Jacksonology"
Quote from: "Sangre"
Quote from: "Jacksonology"
Quote from: "Sangre"
We know Michael Jackson has used doubles and impersonators (and/or probably still uses them). Even his driver noted that during Dangerour tour MJ asked lookalikes to mislead paparazzi.

I just wanted to tell you that there's no need to re-invent a bike while there are plenty of other things to focus on.
Agreed. There really shouldn't be no more double threads. If anyone isn't convinced of doubles now They just aren't.


Michael used doubles (and so do many other singers, actors, public figures) and it's a fact.

With twins (two MJ theory) it's another story. How could anyone buy that?
yeah the twin theory  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  but there were doubles in this is it and in his public appearances

I'm not very sure about public appearances, but I believe impersonators might have been used in TII. I haven't seen it. Now matter how hopeful I am for MJ to be alive, it's still a bit too soon.
Title: Re: Defenitive proof Michael uses doubles
Post by: MJ_92_Believe on March 22, 2010, 03:29:40 AM
Quote from: "*Mo*"
Quote from: "loma"
Quote from: "somekindofsign"
Sorry, but I don´t understand what´s technically impossible.
We see the sprider in Cluver studios, fade to the spider emerging (white pants man pulling from into it), fade to MJ coming out of it... cut and edit in TII the movie.

We don´t know how they were doing it alive... I guess spider video plus dancers and lighting movement on stage...

Or I missunderstood what you mean.

If you looked closely enough, there was a man pushing the spider.
Then Michael came in from under it using the toaster.

You're not getting the point.  During a live performance there's simply not enough time for Mike to do the song, get off stage, crawl under the spider, get wheeled on stage again and crawl out.  Watch that scene, it only takes 3-4 seconds.

That's because Thriller would have opened with the Spider    :roll:
Title: Re: Defenitive proof Michael uses doubles
Post by: keyboardwizz on March 24, 2010, 08:18:50 AM
Thriller doesn't start with the spider, the 3D vid starts halfway the song during the Vincent Price part,
Do you actualy know the Thriller song?  :roll:

Get your FACTS straight !!!

Always check your sources, there's already to much misinformation in this world.
Title: Re: Defenitive proof Michael uses doubles
Post by: alovesmichael on March 24, 2010, 09:00:58 AM
We all know Michael has used doubles before, not just off stage but onstage too. Dangerous tour - man with rocket on his back flies off stage. History tour - Thriller. Michael sinks down through stage up comes masked double. However, I do  not see the point of using doubles if this was supposed to be a film as many claim except from Michael not being well enough to go through with it all on his own. Some claim Michael wasn't well and couldn't even perform one full song (heartbreaking indeed  :( ), therefore the doubles. Proving there were doubles in TII might not be positive you know, but I do want the truth...
Title: Re: Defenitive proof Michael uses doubles
Post by: Jacksonology on March 24, 2010, 10:10:10 AM
Quote from: "alovesmichael"
We all know Michael has used doubles before, not just off stage but onstage too. Dangerous tour - man with rocket on his back flies off stage. History tour - Thriller. Michael sinks down through stage up comes masked double. However, I do  not see the point of using doubles if this was supposed to be a film as many claim except from Michael not being well enough to go through with it all on his own. Some claim Michael wasn't well and couldn't even perform one full song (heartbreaking indeed  :( ), therefore the doubles. Proving there were doubles in TII might not be positive you know, but I do want the truth...
Michael could of been behind the camera, he always said he wanted to MAKE films, or He could of been busy planning the HOAX and couldn't make it to some of the rehearsals  ;)
Title: Re: Defenitive proof Michael uses doubles
Post by: alovesmichael on March 24, 2010, 11:59:41 AM
Quote from: "Jacksonology"
Quote from: "alovesmichael"
We all know Michael has used doubles before, not just off stage but onstage too. Dangerous tour - man with rocket on his back flies off stage. History tour - Thriller. Michael sinks down through stage up comes masked double. However, I do  not see the point of using doubles if this was supposed to be a film as many claim except from Michael not being well enough to go through with it all on his own. Some claim Michael wasn't well and couldn't even perform one full song (heartbreaking indeed  :( ), therefore the doubles. Proving there were doubles in TII might not be positive you know, but I do want the truth...
Michael could of been behind the camera, he always said he wanted to MAKE films, or He could of been busy planning the HOAX and couldn't make it to some of the rehearsals  ;)

Yeah but he's a perfectionist. If he wanted to make film (I know he has said so but not sure if TII was what he had in mind) wouldn't he have wanted it to be perfect? What do you think about people and fans saying that he didn't look well? These fans that say he spoke to them about his concerns are making me confused  :? .
Title: Re: Defenitive proof Michael uses doubles
Post by: steffmaster1 on March 24, 2010, 12:03:07 PM
he couldnt direct if he was in front of the camera could he :lol:
Title: Re: Defenitive proof Michael uses doubles
Post by: MJ_92_Believe on March 24, 2010, 12:23:24 PM
Quote from: "keyboardwizz"
Thriller doesn't start with the spider, the 3D vid starts halfway the song during the Vincent Price part,
Do you actualy know the Thriller song?  :roll:

Get your FACTS straight !!!

Always check your sources, there's already to much misinformation in this world.

They'd mixed it up. Instead of ending with Vincent's voiceover, they started with it - and ended abruptly with Threatened.
Title: Re: Defenitive proof Michael uses doubles
Post by: Datroot on March 24, 2010, 02:31:27 PM
Quote from: "MJFAN7"
Quote from: "keyboardwizz"
Quote from: "MJFAN7"
I've always thought that this was definitely Michael (the attached photo) because not only does he look very similar to michael, he's really the only one without glasses, and in the main menu, they show stills from this is it, and they only show "this" michael.

But can someone explain to me why he used doubles?  :?

I just did......

I understand your point, but it's a movie so couldn't they just turn the cameras off while he changed or cut out the part where he was back changing?

If he had to disappear earlier than planned, in order to finish the film they would have to use a double.
Title: Re: Defenitive proof Michael uses doubles
Post by: MJJ1982 on March 24, 2010, 02:44:24 PM
Quote from: "MJ_92_Believe"
Quote from: "keyboardwizz"
Thriller doesn't start with the spider, the 3D vid starts halfway the song during the Vincent Price part,
Do you actualy know the Thriller song?  :roll:

Get your FACTS straight !!!

Always check your sources, there's already to much misinformation in this world.

They'd mixed it up. Instead of ending with Vincent's voiceover, they started with it - and ended abruptly with Threatened.

Exactly, at first you see the dancers in the 'movie' during Vincent's part. And after it Michael appears with the spider.
So I think they mixed it up for the tour, it makes no sense to do the song first, and to show the movie with the Vincent part after it.
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