Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators
Hoax Theories => Coherent Theories ~ Connect the dots => Topic started by: bec on September 07, 2013, 11:40:55 PM
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Consider: this is Sony's hoax, MJ is dead, and the family & friends are playing along out of obligation.
Starting at the beginning, the whole story is true regarding the death; Propofol and all that, Murray is a sleazy, incompetent doctor, and really is serving time. Aeg really did push MJ to the brink and instructed Murray to do whatever it took to keep MJ alive and performing. Once the events of 6/25/09 occurred, Aeg was in a panic. Facing the prospect of losing all that money in ticket sales they went into damage control. The first attempt at recuperation was hasty and only mildly effective; refunds OR commemorative tickets collector's pieces. Also selling tickets to the memorial (lottery system). But it wasn't enough, so the idea for TII was born. They pieced together a movie of sorts with Kenny Ortega's help, and set out to sell it. Once Sony got wind of what they had, and negotiations began, an idea began to take shape there at Sony headquarters, a diabolical, shady idea, one they borrowed from a previous dead King, and the death hoax was born.
So, in a top secret project, cinematographers and editors at Sony pieced together any clips they had of the TII rehearsals that looked "hoaxy" and strung them together in a "hoaxy" order and TII the rough cut was born. But this wasn't enough. Data miners at Sony discovered the hoax site mjhd.com and planted moles. The moles observed the community and quickly infiltrated it. Sony approached Amy and purchased the site and 40 days and 40 nights later, Amy became "AMY" and the [Sony] Death Hoax was launched.
Sony also planted other hoax personalities in various media sprinkled through the web. Twitter, Facebook, forums, blogs, they infiltrated everything and began to "suggest" certain likly outcomes to the "hoax". For example, remember the alleged 33 clues in TII? Widely circulated speculation swirled prior to TII's release of such to the point that some hoaxers attended opening night with pencil and paper in hand to record all 33. Another example, TS/_comments and the FBI theory, also the notion of "bamsday", the idea that MJ will return, perpetually.
Meanwhile, all members of MJ's immediate and close extended family/friends are approached with a proposal. Participate and be handsomely rewarded in the form of a multi-year contract and salary, possibly even commission. Decline and miss out. Speak out and be ridiculed mercilessly in the media and your "career" is over. Most, realizing the stakes were incredibly high, and knowing MJ is resting peacefully anyway, agreed. Some declined (Randy? Rebbie? Jackie?). Others were given auditions, and effectively "tried out" for different roles, after which being assigned to their respective character for the duration of the hoax (5 year plan?). They periodically receive instructions akin to a job order on what move to make next.
The purpose of this is to keep alive continued interest in MJ and the MJ brand, to make the brand more relevant today, and to launch his iconic status (Elvis) going forward. Sony knew the drugs and old chi-mo allegations buzz would take center stage and sought to counter attack by launching the hoax. We always speculated MJ had little to lose reputation-wise going into this, thus why not do something this massively risky and edgy? Exactly the same reason Sony settled on the idea of a hoaxed death hoax. They own the MJ brand, which at TOD was distressed. They threw a hail mary and low n behold it was completed.
The fact that the death hoax theory is so underground adds to the sense of mystery and perceived legitimacy. It doesn't feel like marketing. It feels real, as if the user truly stumbled upon something big just below the consciousness of society. Whoever put this together at Sony was indeed a genius, but it wasn't MJ. There's a reason Sony is a multi billion dollar conglomerate mega-brand in entertainment, they employ the best of the best. As any good marketer knows the in's n out's of human nature, this Sony hoax master mind, using what pop culture learned from Elvis and what we knew of MJ, and created the perfect urban legend death hoax for today's generation and effectively elevated their private MJ brand to immortality status.
Now, prove me wrong.
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point #1: MJ involved the hoax in his lyrics/short films/live performances starting from thriller era.
Thriller Era
The Pepsi Burn accident: as you had mentioned it bec, the timeline of events is very suspicious. It can be possible that Michael staged it. Michael donates all the compensation he recieves. He also happens to meet "Dave Dave", a burns victim.
Billie Jean Video: Michael appearances and disappearances
Bad Era
Liberian Girl video: Michael is documenting everyone and they are searching for Michael. There is David Copperfield in that video and a guy in bandages, hinting us to a burns victim?
Moonwalker Film : Michael comes back.
Bad Live: He disappears at the end of Working day and night and re-appears for beat it.
Dangerous/History Era :
Remember The Time : His changes his form...turns into sand.
Dangerous Live: He disappears in at the end of Thriller and re-appears for Billie Jean.
MJ marries LMP- during the time he asks her about Elvis. He says he's going to end up like him.
Interview with Diane Sawyers: Michael expresses he is happy that media fell into his trap.
TDCAU - Pretty revolutionary song, MJ challenges the "eye" by saying: you can never kill me.
Ghosts: again, he comes back.
Invincible era: -
Songs like “threatened”[In one blink I’lldisappear and then I’ll come back to haunt you, what you witnessed could be the
end of a particularly terrifying nightmare, it isn’t it’s the beginning]
“Unbreakable” [ in rap: disappearingacts.....copperfield material]
MJ in martin basher interview, I’d never want tobe buried, I’d like to live forever.
In another interview [i don’t remember the nameof that particular interview] MJ emphasizes he IS peter pan. [ known for
immortality, forever young]
I’ll keep adding if I remember anything.
So I conclude, it is Michael’s work that makeus feel that Michael is indeed capable of pulling off a death hoax and he had
strong intentions of doing one.
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It is actually nice we are having a reverse thinking activity. Thanks Bec!
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Nice post bec - this is just what we need to be doing. Wish I had more time today to respond. I hope RedRope joins in.
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Just want to add one thing I remember from Randy´s deposition shown and discussed during the trial.
From the transcript Q&A:
Q. Were you in communication with AEG or anyone at AEG Live after Michael's death?
A. Yes, I was.
Q. When was that?
A. Well, after Michael died, everyone was shocked. There was so much going on. I was reallydispleased with all the stuff that was going on in court and with the whole Branca and Weitzmanthing. We were still trying to figure out how to grieve, and these people are in court, and wills,and this nonsense. And I'm, like, I haven't even buried my brother yet, and all this court stuff is going on. And so I didn't want that to be, like, pushed to the side. So I said I'm going to give him – put together this memorial for him, and I did it at AEG with Kenny Ortega and those guys. I did it. I was there at their office pretty much every day.
Q. Did you have a positive experience with AEG?
A. Horrible. No, I'm just joking. Yeah, they were -- they were nice. They were very nice. Yeah.We just -- you know, I practically slept there. I put together the show with them. And my sisterswere doing other things. They were cleaning up some, also, still.
Q. Do you recall telling Randy Phillips that you see that Michael was fortunate to have AEG involved in his return to the stage?
A. I don't remember saying that, but that doesn't mean I didn't say it. I kind of felt that way at the time.
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Finally, something tasty to chew on....let me get my coffee and thoughts together...I'll be back :D
Thanks Bec!
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point #1: MJ involved the hoax in his lyrics/short films/live performances starting from thriller era.
Thriller Era
The Pepsi Burn accident: as you had mentioned it bec, the timeline of events is very suspicious. It can be possible that Michael staged it. Michael donates all the compensation he recieves. He also happens to meet "Dave Dave", a burns victim.
Billie Jean Video: Michael appearances and disappearances
Bad Era
Liberian Girl video: Michael is documenting everyone and they are searching for Michael. There is David Copperfield in that video and a guy in bandages, hinting us to a burns victim?
Moonwalker Film : Michael comes back.
Bad Live: He disappears at the end of Working day and night and re-appears for beat it.
Dangerous/History Era :
Remember The Time : His changes his form...turns into sand.
Dangerous Live: He disappears in at the end of Thriller and re-appears for Billie Jean.
MJ marries LMP- during the time he asks her about Elvis. He says he's going to end up like him.
Interview with Diane Sawyers: Michael expresses he is happy that media fell into his trap.
TDCAU - Pretty revolutionary song, MJ challenges the "eye" by saying: you can never kill me.
Ghosts: again, he comes back.
Invincible era: -
Songs like “threatened”[In one blink I’lldisappear and then I’ll come back to haunt you, what you witnessed could be the
end of a particularly terrifying nightmare, it isn’t it’s the beginning]
“Unbreakable” [ in rap: disappearingacts.....copperfield material]
MJ in martin basher interview, I’d never want tobe buried, I’d like to live forever.
In another interview [i don’t remember the nameof that particular interview] MJ emphasizes he IS peter pan. [ known for
immortality, forever young]
I’ll keep adding if I remember anything.
So I conclude, it is Michael’s work that makeus feel that Michael is indeed capable of pulling off a death hoax and he had
strong intentions of doing one.
All genuine coincidences.
Except LMP. She was also approached by Sony and signed on to participate. She periodically receives a gratuity whenever asked to revive her role originally launched by her blog on 6/27/09. MJ never said anything of the sort. This statement of "ending up like Elvis" is a product of Sony's imagination designed to launch the hoax. LMP doesn't care. Her n MJ fell out years ago and there is no love lost there. LMP is happy to have the extra income participating in the hoaxed hoax provides her.
MJ's songs were gone over with a fine tooth comb and anything that contained coincidentally hoaxy lyrics was pushed front n center post-6/25/09 and these were the songs used primarily for anything MJ during this period. Sony realized that the Bad album was the most popular with the fan base and conveniently contained some really good lyrics, which is why almost everything MJ post 6/25/09 references the Bad era. It the biggest money maker, Sony knows it, and is milking that cow for all it's worth. Albums that came later were less popular, so therefore the songs contained on them are used less often in this media blitz.
:ghsdf:
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ur right bec....we can't trust LMP. So we only have Michael's work to trsut upon...anything post 6/25/2009 can't be trusted.
Any other references to death hoax prior to 6/25/09 ?
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anything post 6/25/2009 can't be trusted.
Right. After all, look at the timeline of known, recorded, factual events. When did LMP publish her now (in)famous blog post? When did Sony purchase the rights to TII?
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All genuine coincidences? Really? I have actually never agreed with the hoax mantra 'there are no coincidences', I think there are lots of them in this hoax, but you cannot deny that being hounded/disappearing/returning to kick ass IS a recurrent theme is MJ's work. And recurrent themes tend to spell intentional rather than coincidental in my mind.
But, if we're playing DA I agree that doesn't mean MJ himself re-used this theme in a death hoax. Sony or whoever would be just as aware of MJ's work as we are and could have used the ideas intentionally in their production.
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@curls Doesn't all of this bring us back to the basics?
I guess we never left the basics.
Everything is contradicting. And this contradiction could either mean MJ doesn't want anyone to know the correct answers to this hoax or it could mean this is Sony's hoax.
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@curls Doesn't all of this bring us back to the basics?
It certainly does! I think that is the point of bec's opening post.
..... Starting at the beginning, the whole story is true regarding the death;.....
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I continue to be deeply convinced that Michael is alive and has organized and continues to direct the Hoax.. :icon_razz: but thanks bec for your post :bowdown: it's time to consider all the possibilities... :animal0017:
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So don't tell me no one can debunk this.
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What of the similarities / parallels between MJ and Elvis pre 'death" ? They are many and would be hard to write them all off as coincidences. Bec's hypothetical theory about Sony seizing a golden opportunity to make mega bucks with a hoaxed death hoax has a big flaw in the fact that the death hoax has not been a money spinner. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Pearl has made enough to retire yet from the hoax? But the death of a legend like MJ has and would have been a revenue spinner regardless of the hoax. So I would have to go back a step further than a mad scramble after MJ overdosed and left us and consider murder as well if I am to entertain Sony is involved with this.
The similarities shared by the doctors who were involved with these two iconic performers in their final days have too many shared facts to rule out it being an orchestrated plan.
For the sake of time, I'll copy and paste from an old archived post about Dr Nick and Dr Murray......
Re: Repost: Elvis Presley / Michael Jackson parallels
Postby RK » Sun May 29, 2011 10:02 am
I've been thinking about the similarities between Dr Murray and Elvis's Dr Nick... full name... George Nichopoulos.
Elvis's creed was TCB which stood for Taking Care of Business. Dr Nick had his own version of TCB which was taking care of broads. He apparently really loved the ladies. As does Conrad Murray according to TMZ, with his juggling act of wife, girlfriend and stripper.
It has been said of Dr Nick he was not only a family doctor, he was also an internist. Dr Murray is supposedly a cardioligist that firstly treated one of Michael's children.
Dr Nick is quoted as saying Elvis was also his friend and he cared deeply for him. Murray has been saying he loves Michael's mother and his children, even going so far as to say they are his children.
Dr Nick apparently wrote thousands of prescriptions for his demanding star patient. Murray anaesthetises his patient on demand.
Dr Nick eventually stands trial but it takes 4 years to happen. Michael says in TII we have 4 years to get it right? Not too sure if that is a parallel and I hope Murray has his day in court before then, but his court case has been pushed back as well.
This is a link to an old article that TooGood posted along time ago, where Papa Joe is talking about Michael trying to get prescriptions for drugs off of Elvis's Dr Nickhttp://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/123246/Elvis-link-to-Michael-Jackson-s-pills/
I'd like to add that since this post was made, we've seen Dr Murray serve 4 years [ if we believe what we have been told] Yep.. there's that 4 years again.
The similarities between MJ and Elvis existed during their lives and not only after their alleged deaths.
From MJ dying in a house across the street from Elvis' home, their pets chimps Bubbles and Scatters, to both being accused of pedophilia [Elvis was accused of this when he brought Prissy into his home at the age of 14]......and list list could go on and on.
That is all I can muster for now. I have a head ache today and am not thinking too well.
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I'd like to add that since this post was made, we've seen Dr Murray serve 4 years [ if we believe what we have been told] Yep.. there's that 4 years again.
The similarities between MJ and Elvis existed during their lives and not only after their alleged deaths.
From MJ dying in a house across the street from Elvis' home, their pets chimps Bubbles and Scatters, to both being accused of pedophilia [Elvis was accused of this when he brought Prissy into his home at the age of 14]......and list list could go on and on.
That is all I can muster for now. I have a head ache today and am not thinking too well.
The parallels are all either coincidences or orchestrated by Sony. You're not alleging that the pedo accusations were orchestrated by MJ to emulate Elvis are you? And Murray has only spent 2 years behind bars.
Thanks for the post, RK :icon_e_ugeek:
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I'm glad this thread was opened, thank you! I'm looking forward to reading and helping debunk it!
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No I'm not a subscriber to the 'orchestrated by MJ ' theory for the chimo allegations. Thank you for the correction regards Murray . He was sentenced to 4 years but will be out after having served 2 .
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but you cannot deny that being hounded/disappearing/returning to kick ass IS a recurrent theme is MJ's work. And recurrent themes tend to spell intentional rather than coincidental in my mind.
Good point.
But, if we're playing DA I agree that doesn't mean MJ himself re-used this theme in a death hoax. Sony or whoever would be just as aware of MJ's work as we are and could have used the ideas intentionally in their production.
If the official story is true, then MJ really was hounded, and surrounded by shady people just before he died. That wasn't a story line set up by Sony [unless we are bringing in the murder theory, which has always been lacking in supportive evidence]. So then it is just another coincidence that a reoccurring theme in MJ's work is similar to how he ended up actually dying.
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No I'm not a subscriber to the 'orchestrated by MJ ' theory for the chimo allegations. Thank you for the correction regards Murray . He was sentenced to 4 years but will be out after having served 2 .
I know :icon_geek: I was more needling at you as to why you mentioned pedo accusations in your list of Elvis connections which support MJ being in control of the hoax.
And then I reread and see you aren't feeling well. I'm sorry for needling.
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All genuine coincidences.
Except LMP. She was also approached by Sony and signed on to participate. She periodically receives a gratuity whenever asked to revive her role originally launched by her blog on 6/27/09.
MJ never said anything of the sort. This statement of "ending up like Elvis" is a product of Sony's imagination designed to launch the hoax.
:ghsdf:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1PE7MipD54[/youtube]
Then should we be considering this? The slurred speech?
Elvis didn't do it. Beetles didn't do it. We have to be phenomenal.
When people leave this show, when people leave MY show [ his death hoax, not by sony?]
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Thanks Bec for the brain teaser!
We should ask ourselves: cui bono? Who benefits from this hoax? Is Michael worth more to Sony dead, or dead-then-again-maybe-alive-after-all? I would think Sony would invest more time and $ extolling the legacy of a truly-believed dead Michael Jackson (fallen hero and all that) as it would appeal equally to the fans who have been around since the beginning, as well as a new crop of younger fans who discovered MJ after 25/06/09.
Add that to the fact that we as "believers" are few in numbers (right?) and ridiculed for our death hoax theories, whereas those deaders who call themselves "true MJ fans" would go apeshit on Sony if they ever discovered that Sony was fabricating a death hoax. Thus Sony would lose a large fan ba$e.
Lastly, I know you are playing DA but I simply have to scoff at the idea that some of MJ's family would agree to be paid to support the hoax. I say some. Haven't a lot of people on here noticed a lot of clues coming from Paris? I really don't think she is paid for dropping clues intentionally. Unless it involves some kind of weekly allowance from her dad :icon_cool:
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Ah, now we're getting to the nitty gritty - the fatal flaw in bec's theory!
Sony are in business to make money, nothing wrong with that, it's what business is about, but they didn't need a death hoax to make money from/with MJ, they only needed a death.
(This doesn't mean they, or anyone else, murdered him - I agree there's absolutely zero evidence for the murder theory)
So, if MJ died as in the official story, Sony only had to release and re-release all things MJ to rake in the bucks .... which is what they have done. No need for the hassle and expense of some crazy hoax.
Now, you could also apply that logic to MJ himself - if he needed to make money he only had 'to die' - he didn't need a crazy hoax.
Which brings me back to 'reputation and loss of earning power'. If the hoax is not about financial gain, then does that lead to a conclusion that it is about reputation? I suppose not, as I'm jumping the gun a bit here - we haven't decided yet whose hoax it is. And is there even an intentional hoax, or just a random set of unusual circumstances that imaginative minds have tried to make sense of?
One last thought: Sony could well be in this up to their necks if you consider MJ himself to be a part of Sony!
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Just to clarify what I just said, because I wasn't clear myself when I wrote it! 'Sony is behind the hoax' and 'MJ is dead' are two separate things. If MJ is dead, there is no intentional hoax - just imagination and overactive minds feeding off each other with a hefty dose of manipulation thrown in for good measure. If Sony is behind an intentional hoax, MJ is right there at the helm leading them, therefore not dead.
Clearer the first time? IDK! LOL!
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How should we interpret this?
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z18BOdZK2Ss
[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=z18BOdZK2Ss[/youtube]
Is Michael behind this or were they finally able to break him back then and are they going to use him like, our new messiah? And is Sony then going to cash in on him even more?
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All genuine coincidences.
Except LMP. She was also approached by Sony and signed on to participate. She periodically receives a gratuity whenever asked to revive her role originally launched by her blog on 6/27/09.
MJ never said anything of the sort. This statement of "ending up like Elvis" is a product of Sony's imagination designed to launch the hoax.
:ghsdf:
Then should we be considering this? The slurred speech?
Elvis didn't do it. Beetles didn't do it. We have to be phenomenal.
When people leave this show, when people leave MY show [ his death hoax, not by sony?]
Another lucky (for Sony) coincidence.
Thanks Bec for the brain teaser!
We should ask ourselves: cui bono? Who benefits from this hoax? Is Michael worth more to Sony dead, or dead-then-again-maybe-alive-after-all? I would think Sony would invest more time and $ extolling the legacy of a truly-believed dead Michael Jackson (fallen hero and all that) as it would appeal equally to the fans who have been around since the beginning, as well as a new crop of younger fans who discovered MJ after 25/06/09.
Add that to the fact that we as "believers" are few in numbers (right?) and ridiculed for our death hoax theories, whereas those deaders who call themselves "true MJ fans" would go apeshit on Sony if they ever discovered that Sony was fabricating a death hoax. Thus Sony would lose a large fan ba$e.
Lastly, I know you are playing DA but I simply have to scoff at the idea that some of MJ's family would agree to be paid to support the hoax. I say some. Haven't a lot of people on here noticed a lot of clues coming from Paris? I really don't think she is paid for dropping clues intentionally. Unless it involves some kind of weekly allowance from her dad :icon_cool:
Ah, but how would the deaders ever find out? First they would have to admit the existence of hoax. 4 years running now, the deaders still don't accept that there are any "clues" or "insiders" or "hints". Presumably this hoaxed death hoax could go on forever. In other words, deaders deny the very existence of hoax even this far in so Sony will be safe from accusations from now until forever. They have walked the perfect line: concoct an underground death hoax to romance one demographic while simultaneously championing the legacy of a late celebrity to romance the other. They're walking both sides of the fence and winning over both factions at the same time. Again, the mastermind behind it is a genius, it just isn't MJ, it's a marketing expert at Sony.
As far as Paris, maybe this is why she tried to commit suicide. Recall how KJ at one point was pleading with the estate for more monthly support money. Sony came to the rescue, with a condition... participation in the hoaxed death hoax. And so Paris's role in the hoax was born. 3.5 years later, Paris has been wrapped up in the whole thing too deep, to the point she nearly believed it herself; that her Dad actually is alive and fooling the world. Paris is a child and her imagination and wishful thinking propelled her to get carried away with Sony's diabolical scheme. Unfortunately, reality came crashing down, and what she knows to be true all along finally caught up with her, and she hit rock bottom, requiring psychiatric care.
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Ah, now we're getting to the nitty gritty - the fatal flaw in bec's theory!
Sony are in business to make money, nothing wrong with that, it's what business is about, but they didn't need a death hoax to make money from/with MJ, they only needed a death.
(This doesn't mean they, or anyone else, murdered him - I agree there's absolutely zero evidence for the murder theory)
So, if MJ died as in the official story, Sony only had to release and re-release all things MJ to rake in the bucks .... which is what they have done. No need for the hassle and expense of some crazy hoax.
Now, you could also apply that logic to MJ himself - if he needed to make money he only had 'to die' - he didn't need a crazy hoax.
Which brings me back to 'reputation and loss of earning power'. If the hoax is not about financial gain, then does that lead to a conclusion that it is about reputation? I suppose not, as I'm jumping the gun a bit here - we haven't decided yet whose hoax it is. And is there even an intentional hoax, or just a random set of unusual circumstances that imaginative minds have tried to make sense of?
One last thought: Sony could well be in this up to their necks if you consider MJ himself to be a part of Sony!
Where's the fatal flaw? :confused:
Just to clarify what I just said, because I wasn't clear myself when I wrote it! 'Sony is behind the hoax' and 'MJ is dead' are two separate things. If MJ is dead, there is no intentional hoax - just imagination and overactive minds feeding off each other with a hefty dose of manipulation thrown in for good measure. If Sony is behind an intentional hoax, MJ is right there at the helm leading them, therefore not dead.
Clearer the first time? IDK! LOL!
I'm unclear as to why you allege it has to be one or the other. Explain further?
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Ok bec, I'll try again! The fatal flaw is that Sony didn't need a death hoax to make money, they only needed the death of a superstar.
If MJ died, and Sony wanted (understandably, they are a business) to cash in on that, they simply didn't need to go to the expense and hassle of engineering a hoax. A hoax would not, and has not made them money. MJ being a dead legend would and has. Elvis and others, made money post-humously not because a few people might have thought they were alive, but because they were dead stars. Sony, doubtlessly, knew from history, what happens to interest and sales when superstars die. They did not have to concoct anything as complicated as this death hoax to achieve this.
Not only would they not need to kick off a hoax, they are first and foremost a business, so they simply would not spend money where they didn't need to. Basic business really. Could you stretch it and say they made a bad business decision - IDK, maybe.
So that's why I say it has to be one or the other - Sony is quite possibly involved in the hoax if MJ didn't die, but if he did die there was no need for Sony to construct it.
Does that help?
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I continue to be deeply convinced that Michael is alive and has organized and continues to direct the Hoax.. :icon_razz: but thanks bec for your post :bowdown: it's time to consider all the possibilities... :animal0017:
Blankie, actually Bec is not agreeing with the idea that Sony could be behind the hoax that's the reason why she posted that paragraph to challenge us to think otherwise and so be able to agree all of us that the hoax is behind Michael or al least the most of it, please correct me if I am wrong Bec.
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Hi everyone, good debate, but didn't Derek Clontz recently publish a book in which he admits responsibility for the launch of a possible Hoax within minutes of Michael dying, which would take the emphasis away from Sony introducing it as a death hoax.
Personally I think Sony were seeing the $ signs on the back of the This is it tour following pre ticket sales and knew that his subsequent death was going to make even more money without introducing a death hoax.
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Hi Bec I could debunk Sony's theory by naming some MJ set ups before death announcement:
1- 1994 MJ plans to fake his death republished June 25, 2009 http://weeklyworldnews.com/headlines/9352/michael-jackson-faked-his-own-death/
Michael Jackson FAKED his death on June 25, 2009 and then on the "Michael" album, there's the Weekly World News for us all to see.
2- 2008 Christmas surprise in New Mexico-MJ died of a drug overdose, which was just a hoax, but happens exactly 6 months later furthermore The Enquirer article about MJ has 6 months to live http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxdeath.net/old_mjhd/index_27.html
3- This Is It when MJ played the character of a guy who faked his death in Gilda movie.
4- Two days after the press conference, there was a story that MJ wanted all his unreleased music released after he died.
5- The book mysterious death of Michael Jackson released June 24, 2009 on amazon.com and goodreads.com http://www.gaspjournal.com/2009/06/book-review-the-mysterious-death-of-michael-jackson-by-rob-simone.html
6- MJ hiring back John Branca 8 days before death announcement.
7- Surveillance cameras broken at Carolwood so we could not see who came in that night.
8- Professional filming of TII for movie and AEG owns more movie theaters than anyone else in world.
And more that I'll post when I have more time.
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I saw something on FB a few days ago (Thanks to Greet over at FB).
I think this is a fitting topic to share it.
Something strange caught my eye in the recent book I bought and read : A life for Love".
In it, (page 436) Violet Gaitan-Silva (former head of security at Neverland) says :
"Just recently I watched the "TII" movie and watching how he included and treated people he worked with, reminded me of his generosity. ...
.. It became even more clearly at the end of the TII movie, in the credits : he gives thanks to certain people, including about ten people who worked for him at Neverland. I was one of those people. I found out about that only a year ago - I was just overcome, because it made me realize that THE CREDITS WERE PUBLISHED JUST WEEKS B E F O R E HIS DEATH.
For him to be that thoughtful, and caring to thank those people, he really must have been in a place where he was lucid and strong and caring - just the person I always knew he was."
Credits published weeks before death? TII was always meant to be a movie and has not been hastily put together from scenes from the rehearsals :icon_question: :icon_albino: :icon_e_wink:
In the same book page 445 Seth Rigs says :
"Michael, my dear beloved friend, those of us who knew you will try to carry on in the best MJ manner. The only problem that we have is that we are not the supreme star and dance and singing genius that you STILL ARE SOMEWHERE. BUT WE WILL FIND YOU, MICHAEL- SOONER OR LATER"
:icon_exclaim: :icon_question:
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Sorry for offtopic. Could someone post it?: http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Judge-Michael-Jackson-Death-Lawsuit-Trial-Conrad-Murray-AEG-222998011.html
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Let's point out some things that make this theory absurd :) :
1) the hoax is mainly based on what happened on june 25th and if MJ is rly dead and the whole hoax is just Sony's idea then how can you explain the 911 call, the weird behaviour of paramedics, the ambulance photo (obviously photoshop), the odd helicopter transporting the body etc etc and then the hoax is also visible through the autopsy that makes no sense at all, the contradictions of doctors, Joseph instead of Joe etc etc - how could Sony arrange this without being directly involved in MJ's death? Bcs those things are clearly prepared in advance...
2) We all know the trials are also a part of the hoax (especially Murray's one) - is Sony also behind it? Because the toys in the courtroom clearly indicate that there's something odd going on... Will they go so far in the idea of a hoax to actually set up a court case, pay the juges and the witnesses? And it brings me to point no 3 --->
3) As some of you already pointed out - how a hoax illusion makes MJ's death more interesting and therefore makes Sony earn more money? There is only a small amount of ppl who take the "clues" and other odd stuff surrounding MJ's death as an indication that there's a hoax going on - 99% of humanity doesn't even care and those who care just find the weird behaviour of the family and/or the media etc ridiculous... Moreover - seeing those "clues" may actually make some ppl believe MJ was murdered etc (by Sony/AEG whoever) bcs of all those crazy reports about his health and mental condition... So a hoaxed hoax is rather risky and not rly necessary for Sony...
That's all for now as I have little time now to go further into the theory :D
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Sorry for offtopic. Could someone post it?: http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Judge-Michael-Jackson-Death-Lawsuit-Trial-Conrad-Murray-AEG-222998011.html
Done.
Thanks Darina.
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Thanks Bec for the brain teaser!
We should ask ourselves: cui bono? Who benefits from this hoax? Is Michael worth more to Sony dead, or dead-then-again-maybe-alive-after-all? I would think Sony would invest more time and $ extolling the legacy of a truly-believed dead Michael Jackson (fallen hero and all that) as it would appeal equally to the fans who have been around since the beginning, as well as a new crop of younger fans who discovered MJ after 25/06/09.
Add that to the fact that we as "believers" are few in numbers (right?) and ridiculed for our death hoax theories, whereas those deaders who call themselves "true MJ fans" would go apeshit on Sony if they ever discovered that Sony was fabricating a death hoax. Thus Sony would lose a large fan ba$e.
Lastly, I know you are playing DA but I simply have to scoff at the idea that some of MJ's family would agree to be paid to support the hoax. I say some. Haven't a lot of people on here noticed a lot of clues coming from Paris? I really don't think she is paid for dropping clues intentionally. Unless it involves some kind of weekly allowance from her dad :icon_cool:
Ah, but how would the deaders ever find out? First they would have to admit the existence of hoax. 4 years running now, the deaders still don't accept that there are any "clues" or "insiders" or "hints". Presumably this hoaxed death hoax could go on forever. In other words, deaders deny the very existence of hoax even this far in so Sony will be safe from accusations from now until forever. They have walked the perfect line: concoct an underground death hoax to romance one demographic while simultaneously championing the legacy of a late celebrity to romance the other. They're walking both sides of the fence and winning over both factions at the same time. Again, the mastermind behind it is a genius, it just isn't MJ, it's a marketing expert at Sony.
As far as Paris, maybe this is why she tried to commit suicide. Recall how KJ at one point was pleading with the estate for more monthly support money. Sony came to the rescue, with a condition... participation in the hoaxed death hoax. And so Paris's role in the hoax was born. 3.5 years later, Paris has been wrapped up in the whole thing too deep, to the point she nearly believed it herself; that her Dad actually is alive and fooling the world. Paris is a child and her imagination and wishful thinking propelled her to get carried away with Sony's diabolical scheme. Unfortunately, reality came crashing down, and what she knows to be true all along finally caught up with her, and she hit rock bottom, requiring psychiatric care.
I was operating under the assumption of an eventual bamsday in which the deaders would most certainly become aware of the existence of a death hoax! Of course if there isn't a bamsday, then yes, the hoax will most likely go on forever, if not for Sony then probably for us.
There are so few of us that believe in and care about a possible hoax that I don't see why it would be worth it for Sony to keep perpetuating a hoax four years on for a niche demographic. Time is money and don't they have better things to do than to play games with such a small population? (Unless they've only given out a few "clues" and the rest was our snowballing imagination.)
You make a good case about Paris. But if we accept your theory, and her father is really dead, wouldn't that be enough to keep her unhappy? Is a death hoax the only reason she could have attempted suicide? I don't pretend to know her well enough at all to say for sure.
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I continue to be deeply convinced that Michael is alive and has organized and continues to direct the Hoax.. :icon_razz: but thanks bec for your post :bowdown: it's time to consider all the possibilities... :animal0017:
Blankie, actually Bec is not agreeing with the idea that Sony could be behind the hoax that's the reason why she posted that paragraph to challenge us to think otherwise and so be able to agree all of us that the hoax is behind Michael or al least the most of it, please correct me if I am wrong Bec.
Thanks sweet :icon_razz: however I am always convinced that Michael is alive....very much alive :icon_lol: and behind all there is him...Only waiting for...
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Let's point out some things that make this theory absurd :) :
1) the hoax is mainly based on what happened on june 25th and if MJ is rly dead and the whole hoax is just Sony's idea then how can you explain the 911 call, the weird behaviour of paramedics, the ambulance photo (obviously photoshop), the odd helicopter transporting the body etc etc and then the hoax is also visible through the autopsy that makes no sense at all, the contradictions of doctors, Joseph instead of Joe etc etc - how could Sony arrange this without being directly involved in MJ's death? Bcs those things are clearly prepared in advance...
2) We all know the trials are also a part of the hoax (especially Murray's one) - is Sony also behind it? Because the toys in the courtroom clearly indicate that there's something odd going on... Will they go so far in the idea of a hoax to actually set up a court case, pay the juges and the witnesses? And it brings me to point no 3 --->
3) As some of you already pointed out - how a hoax illusion makes MJ's death more interesting and therefore makes Sony earn more money? There is only a small amount of ppl who take the "clues" and other odd stuff surrounding MJ's death as an indication that there's a hoax going on - 99% of humanity doesn't even care and those who care just find the weird behaviour of the family and/or the media etc ridiculous... Moreover - seeing those "clues" may actually make some ppl believe MJ was murdered etc (by Sony/AEG whoever) bcs of all those crazy reports about his health and mental condition... So a hoaxed hoax is rather risky and not rly necessary for Sony...
That's all for now as I have little time now to go further into the theory :D
You get the gold star for 1 n 2. I was getting worried here, people :icon_lol:
However, #3 is a matter of opinion. After all, how much money is enough for Sony? Business doesn't strive to make enough money, they strive to make as much money as possible, so pulling profits from 1% of the population while also pulling profits from all the deaders with a conventional marketing campaing for a dead icon, sure, why not. Market diversity. Tapping into both markets (deaders and hoaxers) at the same time makes good business sense.
As far as being risky, eh, the argument we used for MJ holds true, how is it risky when there's no legitimacy attributed to the theory? No one can prove the truth, and even if someone confesses, the notion is deemed ridiculous, they won't be believed. ~"Oh please, there is no hoax, hoaxers made it up, those aren't clues, they're figments of hoaxer's imaginations. Sony didn't plant anything, that's nonsense. How insulting to MJ's legacy, how insulting to Sony who has worked so hard to protect that legacy." Look at all of the legitimate Sony campaigns to celebrate his memory in a conventional, positive way. The way I see it, Sony would have very little to risk since they always have that "official" marketing campaign to show for themselves. If less then 1% of the population believe there is a hoax in the first place, who's going to believe the hoax was a hoax created by Sony??
:animal0017:
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:icon_albino: My counter-argument in blue:
Hi Bec I could debunk Sony's theory by naming some MJ set ups before death announcement:
1- 1994 MJ plans to fake his death republished June 25, 2009 http://weeklyworldnews.com/headlines/9352/michael-jackson-faked-his-own-death/
Michael Jackson FAKED his death on June 25, 2009 and then on the "Michael" album, there's the Weekly World News for us all to see.
2- 2008 Christmas surprise in New Mexico-MJ died of a drug overdose, which was just a hoax, but happens exactly 6 months later furthermore The Enquirer article about MJ has 6 months to live http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxdeath.net/old_mjhd/index_27.html
WWW and etc tabloids are always predicting the death of this or that celebrity, always some psychic contribution or op-ed full of BS n nonsense gossip, and is certainly not a good source to prove anything. Besides, I wouldn't put it past WWW to fake this "archival" article after the event to sell more rags.
3- This Is It when MJ played the character of a guy who faked his death in Gilda movie.
Just a coincidence. MJ liked old gangster films and besides, SC has always had a 20's gangster theme to it. It could have been any movie where the protagonist played by MJ is hunted down by bad guys but gets away in the end. This is no different then previous skits acted out during SC performances.
4- Two days after the press conference, there was a story that MJ wanted all his unreleased music released after he died.
Rumor floated by Sony or plain BS made up by some reporter quoting some "unnamed source".
5- The book mysterious death of Michael Jackson released June 24, 2009 on amazon.com and goodreads.com http://www.gaspjournal.com/2009/06/book-review-the-mysterious-death-of-michael-jackson-by-rob-simone.html
Website typo.
6- MJ hiring back John Branca 8 days before death announcement.
Coincidence or due to the fact that MJ did indeed feel threatened and was taking steps to protect himself and his assets due to that threat, by hiring back a good lawyer that he trusted.
7- Surveillance cameras broken at Carolwood so we could not see who came in that night. Were they broken? I thought LAPD only saved a few minutes of each one due to the remainder showing zero movement, and taped over or erased the rest. Some tape was saved and is dark/grainy, but it appears to show exactly what the official story tells, that MJ + entourage arrived home after rehearsal.
8- Professional filming of TII for movie and AEG owns more movie theaters than anyone else in world.
MJ wanted nothing but the best so that is nothing new and AEG also does a lot of live concerts.
And more that I'll post when I have more time.
:bearhug:
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Thanks Bec for the brain teaser!
We should ask ourselves: cui bono? Who benefits from this hoax? Is Michael worth more to Sony dead, or dead-then-again-maybe-alive-after-all? I would think Sony would invest more time and $ extolling the legacy of a truly-believed dead Michael Jackson (fallen hero and all that) as it would appeal equally to the fans who have been around since the beginning, as well as a new crop of younger fans who discovered MJ after 25/06/09.
Add that to the fact that we as "believers" are few in numbers (right?) and ridiculed for our death hoax theories, whereas those deaders who call themselves "true MJ fans" would go apeshit on Sony if they ever discovered that Sony was fabricating a death hoax. Thus Sony would lose a large fan ba$e.
Lastly, I know you are playing DA but I simply have to scoff at the idea that some of MJ's family would agree to be paid to support the hoax. I say some. Haven't a lot of people on here noticed a lot of clues coming from Paris? I really don't think she is paid for dropping clues intentionally. Unless it involves some kind of weekly allowance from her dad :icon_cool:
Ah, but how would the deaders ever find out? First they would have to admit the existence of hoax. 4 years running now, the deaders still don't accept that there are any "clues" or "insiders" or "hints". Presumably this hoaxed death hoax could go on forever. In other words, deaders deny the very existence of hoax even this far in so Sony will be safe from accusations from now until forever. They have walked the perfect line: concoct an underground death hoax to romance one demographic while simultaneously championing the legacy of a late celebrity to romance the other. They're walking both sides of the fence and winning over both factions at the same time. Again, the mastermind behind it is a genius, it just isn't MJ, it's a marketing expert at Sony.
As far as Paris, maybe this is why she tried to commit suicide. Recall how KJ at one point was pleading with the estate for more monthly support money. Sony came to the rescue, with a condition... participation in the hoaxed death hoax. And so Paris's role in the hoax was born. 3.5 years later, Paris has been wrapped up in the whole thing too deep, to the point she nearly believed it herself; that her Dad actually is alive and fooling the world. Paris is a child and her imagination and wishful thinking propelled her to get carried away with Sony's diabolical scheme. Unfortunately, reality came crashing down, and what she knows to be true all along finally caught up with her, and she hit rock bottom, requiring psychiatric care.
I was operating under the assumption of an eventual bamsday in which the deaders would most certainly become aware of the existence of a death hoax! Of course if there isn't a bamsday, then yes, the hoax will most likely go on forever, if not for Sony then probably for us.
There are so few of us that believe in and care about a possible hoax that I don't see why it would be worth it for Sony to keep perpetuating a hoax four years on for a niche demographic. Time is money and don't they have better things to do than to play games with such a small population? (Unless they've only given out a few "clues" and the rest was our snowballing imagination.)
You make a good case about Paris. But if we accept your theory, and her father is really dead, wouldn't that be enough to keep her unhappy? Is a death hoax the only reason she could have attempted suicide? I don't pretend to know her well enough at all to say for sure.
Bamsday by definition IS MJ coming back and if the theory is correct, like the title says, Sony is behind the hoax and MJ is dead, so there will be no bamsday where anyone finds out anything.
You're right though, time is money, and Sony would have to keep those gratuity checks coming to family members and some friends to keep the hoax going. But who knows, maybe it's worth it to them in some way we don't get understand. Hoaxers are a devoted lot, after all. But this is a good point IF it can be proven that there are still "clues" being dropped by people likely to be participating in a hoaxed hoax. (IS there still a hoax going on?)
Regarding Paris: sure there's a thousand reasons. I'm not sure what you're getting at.
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Let's point out some things that make this theory absurd :) :
1) the hoax is mainly based on what happened on june 25th and if MJ is rly dead and the whole hoax is just Sony's idea then how can you explain the 911 call, the weird behaviour of paramedics, the ambulance photo (obviously photoshop), the odd helicopter transporting the body etc etc and then the hoax is also visible through the autopsy that makes no sense at all, the contradictions of doctors, Joseph instead of Joe etc etc - how could Sony arrange this without being directly involved in MJ's death? Bcs those things are clearly prepared in advance...
2) We all know the trials are also a part of the hoax (especially Murray's one) - is Sony also behind it? Because the toys in the courtroom clearly indicate that there's something odd going on... Will they go so far in the idea of a hoax to actually set up a court case, pay the juges and the witnesses? And it brings me to point no 3 --->
3) As some of you already pointed out - how a hoax illusion makes MJ's death more interesting and therefore makes Sony earn more money? There is only a small amount of ppl who take the "clues" and other odd stuff surrounding MJ's death as an indication that there's a hoax going on - 99% of humanity doesn't even care and those who care just find the weird behaviour of the family and/or the media etc ridiculous... Moreover - seeing those "clues" may actually make some ppl believe MJ was murdered etc (by Sony/AEG whoever) bcs of all those crazy reports about his health and mental condition... So a hoaxed hoax is rather risky and not rly necessary for Sony...
That's all for now as I have little time now to go further into the theory :D
You get the gold star for 1 n 2. I was getting worried here, people :icon_lol:
However, #3 is a matter of opinion. After all, how much money is enough for Sony? Business doesn't strive to make enough money, they strive to make as much money as possible, so pulling profits from 1% of the population while also pulling profits from all the deaders with a conventional marketing campaing for a dead icon, sure, why not. Market diversity. Tapping into both markets (deaders and hoaxers) at the same time makes good business sense.
As far as being risky, eh, the argument we used for MJ holds true, how is it risky when there's no legitimacy attributed to the theory? No one can prove the truth, and even if someone confesses, the notion is deemed ridiculous, they won't be believed. ~"Oh please, there is no hoax, hoaxers made it up, those aren't clues, they're figments of hoaxer's imaginations. Sony didn't plant anything, that's nonsense. How insulting to MJ's legacy, how insulting to Sony who has worked so hard to protect that legacy." Look at all of the legitimate Sony campaigns to celebrate his memory in a conventional, positive way. The way I see it, Sony would have very little to risk since they always have that "official" marketing campaign to show for themselves. If less then 1% of the population believe there is a hoax in the first place, who's going to believe the hoax was a hoax created by Sony??
:animal0017:
What is the meaning of the dot in make.believe? it's the place where imagination becomes real and you are invited.
http://www.sony.net/united/makedotbelieve/
Berlin, Germany, September 2, 2009 - Sony Corporation (Sony) today announced "make.believe"
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/hoaxpic/images/screenxqx.png)
http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press/200909/09-100E/
So this brand message was created after MJ's "death" and the question remains: will it last 4 years?
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Oh i love this post. Finally one saying Sony may be part of it.
what i think is even more "dark" but i guess business can be that dark.
- You cannot fool Sony, it's too big to avoid them. You can only DEAL with them.
- Death might be the most valuable event of such a music icon. It BRINGS MONEY
So, i would like to apologize for saying so if i am wrong but i already said it before and apologized before : it came to my mind that MJ may not hoax his death to sell more discs, but he may have sold his death to Sony.
It would be the biggest music industry contract, including death, funeral, interviews, staged controversy, tribute movie (TII) post mortem albums, all fueling this "all in the box" project.
I know it would sound pretty strange MJ would deal such stuff, but i feel he would.
Sorry Michael, had to speak my mind.
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I can not even assimilate the idea that MJ is dead, if Sony lit the wick, and then it spread around the world, maybe, but all we've seen (I will not list, as did others) do not support Sony. Everything is in sight, no one invent anything, and judgment to C. M. for me is strong, Sony can not control or hire worldwide, UCLA, forensic doctors, judges, policemen, 911 ... even the family.
If MJ really is dead, and Bec theory is correct .... uttered no word, because it would be removed.
Do not think I'm blind or closed mind, to let my imagination simply do not accept the idea that the Jackson family is mostly ready to play for shit money.
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I can not even assimilate the idea that MJ is dead, if Sony lit the wick, and then it spread around the world, maybe, but all we've seen (I will not list, as did others) do not support Sony. Everything is in sight, no one invent anything, and judgment to C. M. for me is strong, Sony can not control or hire worldwide, UCLA, forensic doctors, judges, policemen, 911 ... even the family.
If MJ really is dead, and Bec theory is correct .... uttered no word, because it would be removed.
Do not think I'm blind or closed mind, to let my imagination simply do not accept the idea that the Jackson family is mostly ready to play for shit money.
Marum what whatyourheartsays has posted does make sense and if I am right (whatyourheartsays correct me if I am wrong) she is saying that MJ might have sold the idea of the death hoax to Sony---> that doesn't imply Michel being "dead" quite the contrary although I see it a little bit far fetched and I honestly see Michael able to do it by his own.
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I can not even assimilate the idea that MJ is dead, if Sony lit the wick, and then it spread around the world, maybe, but all we've seen (I will not list, as did others) do not support Sony. Everything is in sight, no one invent anything, and judgment to C. M. for me is strong, Sony can not control or hire worldwide, UCLA, forensic doctors, judges, policemen, 911 ... even the family.
If MJ really is dead, and Bec theory is correct .... uttered no word, because it would be removed.
Do not think I'm blind or closed mind, to let my imagination simply do not accept the idea that the Jackson family is mostly ready to play for shit money.
Marum what whatyourheartsays has posted does make sense and if I am right (whatyourheartsays correct me if I am wrong) she is saying that MJ might have sold the idea of the death hoax to Sony---> that doesn't imply Michel being "dead" quite the contrary although I see it a little bit far fetched and I honestly see Michael able to do it by his own.
if it is correct, but I think it is too much, remember that we talked about whether MJ, got help, even FBI? but I can be wrong of course ..
Sony accept the idea of collaborating with MJ, but the theory that Sony and family "benefit Hoax".
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Oh i love this post. Finally one saying Sony may be part of it.
what i think is even more "dark" but i guess business can be that dark.
- You cannot fool Sony, it's too big to avoid them. You can only DEAL with them.
- Death might be the most valuable event of such a music icon. It BRINGS MONEY
So, i would like to apologize for saying so if i am wrong but i already said it before and apologized before : it came to my mind that MJ may not hoax his death to sell more discs, but he may have sold his death to Sony.
It would be the biggest music industry contract, including death, funeral, interviews, staged controversy, tribute movie (TII) post mortem albums, all fueling this "all in the box" project.
I know it would sound pretty strange MJ would deal such stuff, but i feel he would.
Sorry Michael, had to speak my mind.
I really liked your post @whatyourheartsays. This theory has merit, but the one thing it won't do or bring about is vindication for his tattered reputation since the chi-mo allegations. I've always thought that getting justice for the inhumanity of what he was falsely labelled would be very high on his 'to do' list.
And @Bec....great thread . It feels like we're back doing what our forum was made to do. Thanks.
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Let's point out some things that make this theory absurd :) :
1) the hoax is mainly based on what happened on june 25th and if MJ is rly dead and the whole hoax is just Sony's idea then how can you explain the 911 call, the weird behaviour of paramedics, the ambulance photo (obviously photoshop), the odd helicopter transporting the body etc etc and then the hoax is also visible through the autopsy that makes no sense at all, the contradictions of doctors, Joseph instead of Joe etc etc - how could Sony arrange this without being directly involved in MJ's death? Bcs those things are clearly prepared in advance...
2) We all know the trials are also a part of the hoax (especially Murray's one) - is Sony also behind it? Because the toys in the courtroom clearly indicate that there's something odd going on... Will they go so far in the idea of a hoax to actually set up a court case, pay the juges and the witnesses?
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Leaving Sony aside for now (I've convinced myself they're not the hoax starters anyway), the real issue to be discussed is the 'MJ is Dead' part of bec's title. Like was said at
the start of this thread, back to basics.
So, let me have a go (in red) at debunking Susie's points:
1) the hoax is mainly based on what happened on june 25th and if MJ is rly dead and the whole hoax is
just Sony's idea then how can you explain the 911 call,
There were so many versions of the 911 call 'released', bits added, bits taken away, that it's impossible to know the content of the 'real' one.
the weird behaviour of paramedics,
What weird behaviour was that then?
the ambulance photo (obviously photoshop),
Hmm, need longer to think about this one! But if we're trying to link Sony to all this, then surely they have all the footage/pics/expertise etc needed to hastily put this together.
the odd helicopter transporting the body etc etc
Live footage, as a story unfolds, weird things happen!
and then the hoax is also visible through the autopsy that makes no sense at all, the
contradictions of doctors,
An ethical attempt to give MJ some privacy, by not releasing or giving accurate reports.
Joseph instead of Joe etc etc
A simple understandable mistake, people are usually given the long version of a name.
- how could Sony arrange this without being directly involved in MJ's death? Bcs
those things are clearly prepared in advance...
The ambulance pic is the only thing on this list that needed to be produced quickly - I can't see that any needed to be prepared in advance of June 25th.
2) We all know the trials are also a part of the hoax (especially Murray's one) - is
Sony also behind it? Because the toys in the courtroom clearly indicate
that there's something odd going on... Will they go so far in the idea
of a hoax to actually set up a court case, pay the juges and the
witnesses?
Point is, we're claiming MJ has done these things. Can we honestly say no-one else could have or would have? Aren't we all painfully aware of court cases that have been a total 'set-up'?
Disclaimer: Trying to look with a beginner's eyes and mind! I don't necessarily believe the arguments just outlined!
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I'll debunk bec's theory with only one sentence because all these pros and contras give me a real head ache ! !
A mother would never use her son's death to gain money! Never ever!! If MJ really died, then Mrs. K's grief would prevent her from participating in that hoax.
Anyone in the family could do it, his own children can be manipulated, except his own mother! As she's been participating in the hoax and has also a role to play, then this means that her son lives! A mother is a blessing from God. No one would care for anyone except his own mother.
End of story!
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Regarding Paris: sure there's a thousand reasons. I'm not sure what you're getting at.
I just mean that I do not wish to make her attempted suicide fit in with our death hoax theories because I believe the two are completely unrelated. JMO.
I'll debunk bec's theory with only one sentence because all these pros and contras give me a real head ache ! !
A mother would never use her son's death to gain money! Never ever!! If MJ really died, then Mrs. K's grief would prevent her from participating in that hoax.
Anyone in the family could do it, his own children can be manipulated, except his own mother! As she's been participating in the hoax and has also a role to play, then this means that her son lives! A mother is a blessing from God. No one would care for anyone except his own mother.
End of story!
But if the trial is part of Sony's hoax, then wouldn't KJ be standing to gain from it, as she is asking for monetary restitution?
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I understand that i'm most likely unwelcome here now :smiley-vault-misc-150:
But I wanted to interject some thoughts.
I believe the main thing Non-believers really find it hard to believe it's a hoax is because of all the legal things.
1. The Coroner signing off on the death certificate
2. The amount of police that were there for crowd control the day of the memorial
3. The Autopsy report, signed to say it was true/declaration.
4. The documentation that's filed with the supreme court and the case number being on their website.
5. Conrad Murrays Licenses being found on the medical board websites
6. The swat team searching Murrays medical offices
7. Elissa Fleaks reports
8. The real Judge, Baliffs and court room
9. The legally filed appeals of Conrad Murray
10. The Katherine Jackson Vs Aeg legally filed documents.
The list goes on.
Who has the connections to gain this kind of cooperation? Either there is federal involvement or someone owes someone a favor, someone who knows people in those higher places that that organize it.
Has background profiles been done on the 'players' that Michael Jackson was around/involved with before and on juen 2009? Their histories, who they know, where they worked? It might yeild some answers to the hows on the legal aspect of it.
the strangeness of everything else leads to his alive, but the hurdle is How did they manage to pull up all the legal stop signs that ordinarily could not be done?
Thanks for taking the time in reading.
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A simple understandable mistake, people are usually given the long version of a name.[/color]
[/b]
@curls Can you plz explain what you mean?You're right: "People are useally given the long version of a name" But Both La toya and Jermaine has confirmed that MJ middle name is Joe. What makes me suspicious if Mj's middle name really is Joe is: that this information was given to us after june 25 2009.
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@Billie J, I mean that for people filling out forms it'd be an easy mistake to make, to write Joseph instead of Joe, because people do usually have the longer version of a name as their legal name. I know that from a hoax point of view, if Joe is MJ's middle name, the use of Joseph voids all these 'official' documents, but from the devil's advocate stance I was coming from, I was explaining it could be a simple mistake, nothing more.
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@Deactivated, I don't know who you are, but those are good questions. Can we say that MJ himself had the connections needed?
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Oh i love this post. Finally one saying Sony may be part of it.
Whatyourheartsays, others have written about this possibility before on this forum, one of them MJonmind. But it was mostly ignored or rejected. There is a blog with a lot of information about (the possibility) of Sony's role in this. If you are interested, let me know!
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but don't you guys think anything could've been manipulated after june 25 by sony if they really wanted to, given that they have all the wherewithal needed for such manipulation?
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There has to be a motive for anyone to do anything. I haven't seen anyone come up with a convincing motive for Sony to be behind the hoax.
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I'm thinking, it can be to reveal some 'fake' MJ, someone who looks exactly like him, but is not in reality, and then make some bucks. Make that 'fake' MJ anti-christ or that kind of figure.
I mean to pull of something like this needs huge influence on people from various areas/fields. If MJ is behind this hoax, then I think he is teamed up with Sony.
But if it's not MJ's hoax, then it's the above scenario I'm thinking of.
I don't have proofs to back it up of-course. Just letting my imagination run wild.
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There has to be a motive for anyone to do anything. I haven't seen anyone come up with a convincing motive for Sony to be behind the hoax.
An excellent point.
Not to mention, does anyone one when Sony bought the rights to TII? Prior to that this was an AEG gig.
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There has to be a motive for anyone to do anything. I haven't seen anyone come up with a convincing motive for Sony to be behind the hoax.
An excellent point.
Not to mention, does anyone one when Sony bought the rights to TII? Prior to that this was an AEG gig.
Sony submitted the highest bid for the rehearsal footage somewhere around the week of July 20, 2009, according to a Los Angeles Times article.
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There has to be a motive for anyone to do anything. I haven't seen anyone come up with a convincing motive for Sony to be behind the hoax.
Just what is the motive for all evil in the world? Money.
Whether Sony is behind it or not, they have made MUCH more money on a 'dead' Michael, than they would EVER have made on 'alive' Michael.
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It's something I don't want to think about to much, but I'm sure you all remember Latoya saying that CM is just the fall guy and that there are other players in the background? She said she knew who they are.
Who did she talk about? Why isn't she telling who they are?
Do you ever ask yourself why the family is working with the people who damaged their son, like Sony, AEG, Oprah?
Because those are the hands that feed them. I absolutely don't mean this in a disrespectful way, I really believe, IF there is no hoax, that the family feels forced, maybe threatened to cooperate because otherwise there will be consequenses, moneywise. They are still surrounded by people Michael didn't trust. The estate-executors made a LOT of money for Michael's heirs (and for themselves) but the other companies made a LOT of money on Michael too.
So now one man CM is taking the blame, the family is struggling for justice (hoaxwise or not) and the backgroundplayers are the laughing third.
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There has to be a motive for anyone to do anything. I haven't seen anyone come up with a convincing motive for Sony to be behind the hoax.
Just what is the motive for all evil in the world? Money.
Whether Sony is behind it or not, they have made MUCH more money on a 'dead' Michael, than they would EVER have made on 'alive' Michael.
Yes - 'dead' Michael, not dead Michael hoax, has made them money. There is no financial gain for them to be behind a hoaxed death.
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There has to be a motive for anyone to do anything. I haven't seen anyone come up with a convincing motive for Sony to be behind the hoax.
Just what is the motive for all evil in the world? Money.
Whether Sony is behind it or not, they have made MUCH more money on a 'dead' Michael, than they would EVER have made on 'alive' Michael.
Yes - 'dead' Michael, not dead Michael hoax, has made them money. There is no financial gain for them to be behind a hoaxed death.
I feel that a vindication process becomes an essential element, if a comeback should happen.
So in the near future, if there will be vindication then I don't find any reasons why Michael Jackson would not be behind this hoax.
Sony is already making a hell lot of money through MJ merchandise, which each and every fan buys. But if they need more money, that too through a death hoax,, they will have to create a positive impact on the brand Michael Jackson in the eyes of potential customers. For that to become possible, this vindication process is one step, if not the only.
So if Sony has to benefit from death hoax, which includes a comeback, they will have to establish the necessary foundations. If Sony is not behind death hoax, then they won't try to vindicate him. They'd keep releasing these new materials and the fans would buy them.
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There has to be a motive for anyone to do anything. I haven't seen anyone come up with a convincing motive for Sony to be behind the hoax.
Just what is the motive for all evil in the world? Money.
Whether Sony is behind it or not, they have made MUCH more money on a 'dead' Michael, than they would EVER have made on 'alive' Michael.
Yes - 'dead' Michael, not dead Michael hoax, has made them money. There is no financial gain for them to be behind a hoaxed death.
Curls, unless they have something else in store for us........you're right, dead is dead, eventually it fades out, but this keeps on lingering..... this hoax, which keeps us on the edge of our seates for four years now, preparing us for.....something....someone (Michael, Fake Michael)....which will generate another outburst of gaining money.
They can't come up with a 'dead' guy after four years of silence.....they have to excite the public, giving clues, keep them guessing....hoping...
I'm just trying to look into all possibilities, ofcourse hoping I'm wrong on this...
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I feel that a vindication process becomes an essential element, if a comeback should happen.
So in the near future, if there will be vindication then I don't find any reasons why Michael Jackson would not be behind this hoax.
Sony is already making a hell lot of money through MJ merchandise, which each and every fan buys. But if they need more money, that too through a death hoax,, they will have to create a positive impact on the brand Michael Jackson in the eyes of potential customers. For that to become possible, this vindication process is one step, if not the only.
So if Sony has to benefit from death hoax, which includes a comeback, they will have to establish the necessary foundations. If Sony is not behind death hoax, then they won't try to vindicate him. They'd keep releasing these new materials and the fans would buy them.
Thriller, I don't see a reason for Sony to vindicate Michael and I don't think they are intending to. If we look back at his depart from Sony:
Jackson was waiting for licenses to the masters of his albums to revert to him, thus allowing him to promote his old material and preventing Sony from getting a cut of the profit. Jackson expected this to occur early in the new millennium, however, due to the fine print and various clauses in the contract, the revert date is still many years away. Jackson began an investigation, and it emerged that the attorney who represented the singer in the deal was also representing Sony, creating a conflict of interest. Jackson was also concerned about another conflict of interest. For a number of years, Sony had been negotiating to buy Jackson's music catalog. If Jackson's career or financial situation were to deteriorate, it would be in Jackson's financial interest to sell his catalog. Thus, Sony had something to gain from Jackson's career failing. Jackson was able to use these conflicts as leverage to exit his contract early.
Just before the release of Invincible, Jackson informed the head of Sony Music Entertainment, Tommy Mottola he was leaving the record label. As a result, all singles releases, video shootings and promotions concerning the Invincible album were cancelled. Jackson made allegations in July 2002 that Mottola was a "devil" and a "racist" who did not support his African-American artists, using them merely for his own personal gain. He charged that Mottola had called his colleague Irv Gotti a "fat black nigger". Sony disputed claims that they had failed to promote Invincible with sufficient energy, maintaining that Jackson refused to tour in the United States.The singer accused Sony and the record industry of racism, deliberately not promoting or actively working against promotion of his album.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invincible_(Michael_Jackson_album)
They haven't created a positive impact on the brand Michael Jackson yet, John Branca has betrayed him, and look how much money they already made. For Michael's real fans and supporters, it doesn't matter, they still buy his music and go to the shows, they don't believe in those lies about him anyway. And about the shows, aren't many people attending those, hoping Michael (the real one) will secretly participate in it? So the hoax IS moneymaking.
And if Michael (real or fake) comes back finally, people are in awe and elated and believe the second coming has materialized (which would be nice if that is the case) and I don't think anyone is thinking about vindication anymore.
Moreover, if Sony was to gain from Michael's failing career, one could wonder who was behind the accusations against Michael in the first place.
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@Do that is exactly what I'm trying to convey.
Fans would love MJ no matter what, they believe in him and not media bull$hit. And they will also buy any MJ memorabilia.
But because I believe this death hoax would be incomplete without a comeback, and as I believe vindication is a prerequisite, Sony can not benefit from this death hoax as they aren't even trying for such vindication. It is a huge corporation, they would not waste their efforts in vindicating a celebrity, they care about their profits.
So I believe this is not Sony's death hoax.
was i successful in making myself clear? :fresse:
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But if they need more money, that too through a death hoax,, they will have to create a positive impact on the brand Michael Jackson in the eyes of potential customers. For that to become possible, this vindication process is one step, if not the only.
So if Sony has to benefit from death hoax, which includes a comeback, they will have to establish the necessary foundations.
Sony can not benefit from this death hoax as they aren't even trying for such vindication.
Hey Thriller, no you were not succesful :smiley-vault-misc-150: I'm sorry if I misunderstand you!
What I understood from your post was that you were saying that Sony CAN NOT make money from the hoax UNLESS they try to vindicate Michael. And I was trying to say that they WILL make money, vindication or no vindication.
So why can this NOT be Sony's hoax?
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No, we have the info about MJ's middle name > Joe > ever since the 2005 trial http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhCyebhWW2o 2:15-3:05
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I always ask me why record a rehearsal using HD and many cameras?, why not make that with the concerts?
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I understand that i'm most likely unwelcome here now :smiley-vault-misc-150:
But I wanted to interject some thoughts.
I believe the main thing Non-believers really find it hard to believe it's a hoax is because of all the legal things.
1. The Coroner signing off on the death certificate
2. The amount of police that were there for crowd control the day of the memorial
3. The Autopsy report, signed to say it was true/declaration.
4. The documentation that's filed with the supreme court and the case number being on their website.
5. Conrad Murrays Licenses being found on the medical board websites
6. The swat team searching Murrays medical offices
7. Elissa Fleaks reports
8. The real Judge, Baliffs and court room
9. The legally filed appeals of Conrad Murray
10. The Katherine Jackson Vs Aeg legally filed documents.
The list goes on.
Who has the connections to gain this kind of cooperation? Either there is federal involvement or someone owes someone a favor, someone who knows people in those higher places that that organize it.
Has background profiles been done on the 'players' that Michael Jackson was around/involved with before and on juen 2009? Their histories, who they know, where they worked? It might yeild some answers to the hows on the legal aspect of it.
the strangeness of everything else leads to his alive, but the hurdle is How did they manage to pull up all the legal stop signs that ordinarily could not be done?
Thanks for taking the time in reading.
:th_bravo: Deactivated, you successfully activated legit points that have been consistently ignored.
not listening to me does not change the fact that California is highly litigated state. MJ well aware of this therefore would not do things that would have led to lifetime inevitable lawsuits against him and kids turning their life into bankrupt and miserable condition. So does Sony. Hoaxing star's death to gain money.... Wow...........Then lose all and more gained. No way. Well, and of course fake court/ judge is not an option not for me nor in reality.
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Sigh.
I understand that i'm most likely unwelcome here now :smiley-vault-misc-150:
But I wanted to interject some thoughts.
I believe the main thing Non-believers really find it hard to believe it's a hoax is because of all the legal things.
1. The Coroner signing off on the death certificate Did he? It's redacted. So really, this is more accuratly described as "allegedly signed".
2. The amount of police that were there for crowd control the day of the memorial Paid for by the estate, including boxed lunches http://articles.latimes.com/2009/sep/03/local/me-jackson-burial3
3. The Autopsy report, signed to say it was true/declaration. Even though it sounds like a lame excuse, stuff like this gets faked all the time; faked documents, forged signatures, etc. That's the purpose of notarization for documents filed with the state. Funnily enough, the state seal on both the AR and the DC are not consistent with the "real" seal. In addition, on the DC, it clearly states, "this is a true certified copy of the record filed in the County of Los Angeles" which, in direct translation says: "this is not a true certified copy of the record filed in the County of Los Angeles". Take a look for yourself if you don't believe me: http://www.autopsyfiles.org/reports/Celebs/jackson,%20michael_report.pdf
4. The documentation that's filed with the supreme court and the case number being on their website. Admittedly above my pay grade, however, I will say, it's just an entry on a website. That doesn't make it any more or less reality. Or legally binding.
5. Conrad Murrays Licenses being found on the medical board websites Murray being a real doctor doesn't mean MJ is dead nor does it mean he is alive. It means nothing except he may well be real a doctor.
6. The swat team searching Murrays medical offices I'm glad this was brought up. The search warrant listed the wrong address for Murray's office. Which in the real world would make the product of any search invalid as evidence in court and might even result in the entire case being thrown out. In this world, however, no one has seemed to notice this except a few of us very early hoaxers. I tripled, quadruple, and quintuple checked and no matter how many times I tried to verify it, the address on the search warrant is straight up incorrect. Not to mention, did the SWAT team search Murray's office? I genuinely don't recall if there were any pics of this alleged incident. I do know there was a (n inaccurate) search warrant for it. I also know they searched Applied Pharmacy and if that wasn't a fake pharmacy I don't know what is http://www.odt.co.nz/files/story/2009/08/las_vegas_metro_police_officers_and_the_dea_stand__1347021474.jpg
7. Elissa Fleaks reports Do you mean the gal that moved all the things at the crime scene while taking pics? She's very fishy. She performed some seriously unprofessional conduct on a very high profile case that no one seemed to notice, again, except for us hoaxers.
8. The real Judge, Baliffs and court room Not to be cheeky but real people sometimes act too. Gary Stevens is a real jockey who starred in the movie "Seabiscuit" as a jockey. That didn't make him any less real of a jockey, nor did it mean the movie, or the role he was playing, were real.
9. The legally filed appeals of Conrad MurrayAdmittedly above my pay grade again, but again, it's just a listing on a website.
10. The Katherine Jackson Vs Aeg legally filed documents. Same as above. In lieu of understanding the 'how' for these parts where I have no knowledge or experience, I concede that there are smarter, more experienced people then I working on this hoax, because I'm confident MJ didn't break the law. I'm also confident, because it only makes sense and MJ isn't an idiot, that he had the best lawyers he could find vet this hoax before he launched it. How could he not?
The list goes on.
Who has the connections to gain this kind of cooperation? Either there is federal involvement or someone owes someone a favor, someone who knows people in those higher places that that organize it.
Has background profiles been done on the 'players' that Michael Jackson was around/involved with before and on juen 2009? Their histories, who they know, where they worked? It might yeild some answers to the hows on the legal aspect of it.
the strangeness of everything else leads to his alive, but the hurdle is How did they manage to pull up all the legal stop signs that ordinarily could not be done?
Thanks for taking the time in reading.
:th_bravo: Deactivated, you successfully activated legit points that have been consistently ignored.
not listening to me, did not change the fact that California is highly litigated state. MJ well aware of this would not do things that will lead to life time lawsuits against him and kids turning his life up to total bankrupt and miserable condition. Well, and of course fake court/ judge is not an option not for me nor in reality.
They're not ignored, they're just easily debunked and I was hoping someone else would do it since I'm supposed to be playing Devil's advocate here.
Regarding lawsuits, as if we didn't know it before, these past 4 years have proved there will always be someone suing MJ for something. If he lived his life trying to avoid litigation, he'd never leave the house, and that's a fact.
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Sigh.
I understand that i'm most likely unwelcome here now :smiley-vault-misc-150:
But I wanted to interject some thoughts.
I believe the main thing Non-believers really find it hard to believe it's a hoax is because of all the legal things.
1. The Coroner signing off on the death certificate Did he? It's redacted. So really, this is more accuratly described as "allegedly signed".
2. The amount of police that were there for crowd control the day of the memorial Paid for by the estate, including boxed lunches http://articles.latimes.com/2009/sep/03/local/me-jackson-burial3
3. The Autopsy report, signed to say it was true/declaration. Even though it sounds like a lame excuse, stuff like this gets faked all the time; faked documents, forged signatures, etc. That's the purpose of notarization for documents filed with the state. Funnily enough, the state seal on both the AR and the DC are not consistent with the "real" seal. In addition, on the DC, it clearly states, "this is a true certified copy of the record filed in the County of Los Angeles" which, in direct translation says: "this is not a true certified copy of the record filed in the County of Los Angeles". Take a look for yourself if you don't believe me: http://www.autopsyfiles.org/reports/Celebs/jackson,%20michael_report.pdf
4. The documentation that's filed with the supreme court and the case number being on their website. Admittedly above my pay grade, however, I will say, it's just an entry on a website. That doesn't make it any more or less reality. Or legally binding.
5. Conrad Murrays Licenses being found on the medical board websites Murray being a real doctor doesn't mean MJ is dead nor does it mean he is alive. It means nothing except he may well be real a doctor.
6. The swat team searching Murrays medical offices I'm glad this was brought up. The search warrant listed the wrong address for Murray's office. Which in the real world would make the product of any search invalid as evidence in court and might even result in the entire case being thrown out. In this world, however, no one has seemed to notice this except a few of us very early hoaxers. I tripled, quadruple, and quintuple checked and no matter how many times I tried to verify it, the address on the search warrant is straight up incorrect. Not to mention, did the SWAT team search Murray's office? I genuinely don't recall if there were any pics of this alleged incident. I do know there was a (n inaccurate) search warrant for it. I also know they searched Applied Pharmacy and if that wasn't a fake pharmacy I don't know what is http://www.odt.co.nz/files/story/2009/08/las_vegas_metro_police_officers_and_the_dea_stand__1347021474.jpg
7. Elissa Fleaks reports Do you mean the gal that moved all the things at the crime scene while taking pics? She's very fishy. She performed some seriously unprofessional conduct on a very high profile case that no one seemed to notice, again, except for us hoaxers.
8. The real Judge, Baliffs and court room Not to be cheeky but real people sometimes act too. Gary Stevens is a real jockey who starred in the movie "Seabiscuit" as a jockey. That didn't make him any less real of a jockey, nor did it mean the movie, or the role he was playing, were real.
9. The legally filed appeals of Conrad MurrayAdmittedly above my pay grade again, but again, it's just a listing on a website.
10. The Katherine Jackson Vs Aeg legally filed documents. Same as above. In lieu of understanding the 'how' for these parts where I have no knowledge or experience, I concede that there are smarter, more experienced people then I working on this hoax, because I'm confident MJ didn't break the law. I'm also confident, because it only makes sense and MJ isn't an idiot, that he had the best lawyers he could find vet this hoax before he launched it. How could he not?
The list goes on.
Who has the connections to gain this kind of cooperation? Either there is federal involvement or someone owes someone a favor, someone who knows people in those higher places that that organize it.
Has background profiles been done on the 'players' that Michael Jackson was around/involved with before and on juen 2009? Their histories, who they know, where they worked? It might yeild some answers to the hows on the legal aspect of it.
the strangeness of everything else leads to his alive, but the hurdle is How did they manage to pull up all the legal stop signs that ordinarily could not be done?
Thanks for taking the time in reading.
:th_bravo: Deactivated, you successfully activated legit points that have been consistently ignored.
not listening to me, did not change the fact that California is highly litigated state. MJ well aware of this would not do things that will lead to life time lawsuits against him and kids turning his life up to total bankrupt and miserable condition. Well, and of course fake court/ judge is not an option not for me nor in reality.
They're not ignored, they're just easily debunked and I was hoping someone else would do it since I'm supposed to be playing Devil's advocate here.
Regarding lawsuits, as if we didn't know it before, these past 4 years have proved there will always be someone suing MJ for something. If he lived his life trying to avoid litigation, he'd never leave the house, and that's a fact.
Thanks, bec. :michael-jackson: I was one of those sitting back waiting for the debunk. :icon_redface: :icon_e_wink:
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The AEG/KJ trial has pushed MJ's supposed drug use even deeper down non believers throats. Add the new molestation allegations and what do you have?
You have the same choice as you did in 1998 and 2005. It is as though MJ has put this all out in the forefront so that we can once and for all decide what we TRULY believe. I have been a fan of MJ since I was very young and admit that when the allegations hit in 2005 I had my doubts about who MJ really is. Discovering the hoax and it's message put any doubts about him to rest for me. Sony has nothing to prove. MJ does and has to those who have paid attention. Listen to Will You Be There and it becomes quite obvious whose hoax this is.
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Such kinds of legal arrangements[with loopholes for believers to find out] can be done by either by Sony or MJ. Both of them are capable doing that.
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Now, you could also apply that logic to MJ himself - if he needed to make money he only had 'to die' - he didn't need a crazy hoax.
That's why I didn't ever think he would return. He needed to die to save his own life (if shady peeps were after him) and keep the public interested in him for the future. He did need a hoax to be able to carry on his work.
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Bec I just went back and re-read your original post. Let's entertain the idea that Sony is indeed behind the hoax. They have been involved with MJ for many years but they couldn't have seen 25/06/09 coming. Sure, once they acquired the rights to TII from AEG they could have started orchestrating clues and hints for believers, but PRIOR TO THAT what could have been their involvement with the hoax?
So what evidence do we have that Michael is alive, going back to the events of D-Day up until Sony's purchase of rights to TII in August 2009?
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Now, you could also apply that logic to MJ himself - if he needed to make money he only had 'to die' - he didn't need a crazy hoax.
That's why I didn't ever think he would return. He needed to die to save his own life (if shady peeps were after him) and keep the public interested in him for the future. He did need a hoax to be able to carry on his work.
Interesting point, Datroot. Does anyone want to take this one?
Bec I just went back and re-read your original post. Let's entertain the idea that Sony is indeed behind the hoax. They have been involved with MJ for many years but they couldn't have seen 25/06/09 coming. Sure, once they acquired the rights to TII from AEG they could have started orchestrating clues and hints for believers, but PRIOR TO THAT what could have been their involvement with the hoax?
So what evidence do we have that Michael is alive, going back to the events of D-Day up until Sony's purchase of rights to TII in August 2009?
Excellent question. Anyone want to take up RememberHisTime's challenge?
Meanwhile, does anyone have a serious contest for the debunking of any of the numbered points on "Deactivated"s list? Scorpionchick?
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Now, you could also apply that logic to MJ himself - if he needed to make money he only had 'to die' - he didn't need a crazy hoax.
That's why I didn't ever think he would return. He needed to die to save his own life (if shady peeps were after him) and keep the public interested in him for the future. He did need a hoax to be able to carry on his work.
Interesting point, Datroot. Does anyone want to take this one?
At the risk of boring everyone by repeating myself yet again, and because it was my comment that prompted Datroot's post, I'll respond to this.
If "he needed to die to save his own life (if shady peeps were after him)" he would have chosen a normal, convincing, no questions asked, natural death. (Also the reason why this isn't murder) Buried within a couple of weeks, we would all believe he'd died, we wouldn't have been here for 4 years discussing his death, and more importantly in that scenario, the 'shady peeps' would also believe he'd died. If we have been here for 4 years discussing his death, you can bet your life the 'shady peeps' have been also. So he would gain nothing by dying the way he did, he would still be hiding from and avoiding his enemies for the rest of his life. I agree, no coming back from that.
Re 'keeping the public interested in him', again, did he need a hoax? I maintain he only had to die, he only had to be a dead legend to resurrect interest and $ through release and re-release of music and films. This is what we have seen and continue to see happen. Therefore he didn't need a hoax to carry on his work if music and film such as the public has seen and continue to see, is what his work is all about. He can quietly, invisibly carry on with this type of work indefinitely through 'The Estate'. Again, no come back needed.
Which leads to the main point of what I have to say. Why did he have such a questionable death, the fundamental reason for speculation about a hoax? It wasn't for money. It wasn't to escape his enemies. It wasn't murder.
I say it was, in the words of TII, 'for the fans...'. The Hoax IS his work. And for it to be acknowledged and recognised there has to be a come back (at best) or full revelation (at least).
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Quote Curls:
'Why did he have such a questionable death'
Marilyn Monroe, Kurt Cobain, Whitney Houston, Natalie Wood, Tupac Shakur, Brian Jones, Anne Nicole Smith and many more died a questionable death, but are dead nevertheless. True, none of them had so many inconsistenties as Michael's 'death', but we never can be 100% sure WHO fed those inconsistenties to us and for WHAT reason. Jermaine announced his death, there was a memorial, funeral, interviews, books, interviews from the family, all confirming that he had died and it was because of foul play (thus the trials).
For the fans, this hoax IS his work...
After almost 4,5 years, I begin to wonder just WHAT his main goal for this hoax is?? To make sure how easily people can be fooled and duped? Do we really believe he wants to alter us in suspicious human beings, who can not trust anyone and anything around them? What a world that would be...I admit I learned a whole lot, but with the consequence that I'm to the point that I see a conspiracy in almost everything. Or is this just me?
Quote from RemeberHisTime:
'They couldn't have seen 25/06/09 coming'
If Sony/AEG are the backgroundplayers (like Latoya said in interviews that there were backgroundplayers and she knew who they were), then YES, they could have seen this coming, knowing that the state Michael was in (voluntary or forced), they figured he couldn't do the concerts and all the money involved would fly out of the window. A sick Michael wouldn't produce money anymore, a dead Michael would. So realising this, they COULD have planned 25/06/09 and that could be THE REASON WHY the security-tapes are missing/being erased and why everything went how it went that fatal day.
The only question I have is: WAS Michael taking any drugs or not (many conflicting statements). Because I CAN NOT see WHY Michael would want HIS hoax starting with such a death, but I CAN see why any backgroundplayer would, like a final stab to Michael.
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Perhaps I should expand a bit on my use of the word 'questionable'. Backtrack to pre-death date, to that '6 months to live' article, to March 2009 and the O2 announcement. A surprise I think, to most, if not all. That got MJ back into the forefront of the public's mind. How would he be as a 50 year old performer? Fast forward a couple of months and concert starting dates were being put back. Questions began, will he, won't he, ever take to the stage, will the concerts ever happen? He dies. My own personal first reaction? Wow, that's convenient, now he won't have to do the concerts! Drama, setting the scene, questions, doubt, and all that's before we even begin to hear how he died...
I get what you're saying Do about others who have died, and people have even said to me, Oh, it's Michael Jackson - he couldn't even die without a fuss! But you're heading down the 'murder' route and I'm not going there without some evidence, for reasons I've already given many times.
Can I also just clarify my quote that you misquoted in the second part of your post! Probably a misunderstanding with language, no worries! I did not say or mean to say 'for the fans this hoax IS his work', emphasis there being on it being just fan opinion. I meant the hoax is intended 'for the fans...', quoting the intro to TII. Full stop. The Hoax IS his work (now).
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Perhaps I should expand a bit on my use of the word 'questionable'. Backtrack to pre-death date, to that '6 months to live' article, to March 2009 and the O2 announcement. A surprise I think, to most, if not all. That got MJ back into the forefront of the public's mind. How would he be as a 50 year old performer? Fast forward a couple of months and concert starting dates were being put back. Questions began, will he, won't he, ever take to the stage, will the concerts ever happen? He dies. My own personal first reaction? Wow, that's convenient, now he won't have to do the concerts! Drama, setting the scene, questions, doubt, and all that's before we even begin to hear how he died...
I get what you're saying Do about others who have died, and people have even said to me, Oh, it's Michael Jackson - he couldn't even die without a fuss! But you're heading down the 'murder' route and I'm not going there without some evidence, for reasons I've already given many times.
Can I also just clarify my quote that you misquoted in the second part of your post! Probably a misunderstanding with language, no worries! I did not say or mean to say 'for the fans this hoax IS his work', emphasis there being on it being just fan opinion. I meant the hoax is intended 'for the fans...', quoting the intro to TII. Full stop. The Hoax IS his work (now).
Hi Curls, sorry, my fault, yes I quoted you in the wrong way but I did get what you were saying about 'for the fans' being said by Michael in TII. Again, sorry!
But it won't change the questions in my head about what would be his main reason for this hoax/work/death. Everything that I thought it would be in the beginning of the hoax (vindication, get back to the media, getting attention about prescripted drugs, hiding for shady people etc., is almost not making sense to me anymore.
That 'six months to live' report came from a shady writer who also wrote that MJ surely was gay and was hitting on him too...I mean....WHAT? Ofcourse Michael could have planted that story but it also could be purely coincidental and slander.
Jermaine wrote that Michael behaved strange (there were reports that he had been drinking) at the O2 announcement because he grieved over one of his musicians who had died that day. The pushing back of concert dates could also have been an indication that Michael wasn't feeling well nor ready to go.
You see, today there is to every 'pro' hoax, a 'con' hoax for me because my faith in a comeback is deteriorating, how much I hate to admit it.
Yes, maybe I am heading down the 'dead' or perhaps the 'murder' route because in my eyes there is evidence pointing to it, like the CM trial, the AEG trial, the suicide attempt, the memorial, the tributes, I can go on and on but we weren't willing to accept them as possibly real because of pumpkins, elephants, stars etc and I admit that these things were so strange but could also be a cover up by 'the wrong ones' to keep us guessing. I mean, if Michael can put a pumpkin in a courtroom, so can 'the wrong ones'. I would be sooooo glad if I'm totally wrong, and I will be not ashamed to admit that I was wrong, I would LOVE to.
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Quote Curls:
If Sony/AEG are the backgroundplayers (like Latoya said in interviews that there were backgroundplayers and she knew who they were), then YES, they could have seen this coming, knowing that the state Michael was in (voluntary or forced), they figured he couldn't do the concerts and all the money involved would fly out of the window. A sick Michael wouldn't produce money anymore, a dead Michael would. So realising this, they COULD have planned 25/06/09 and that could be THE REASON WHY the security-tapes are missing/being erased and why everything went how it went that fatal day.
But in this case Michael would be dead or alive??
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Quote Curls:
If Sony/AEG are the backgroundplayers (like Latoya said in interviews that there were backgroundplayers and she knew who they were), then YES, they could have seen this coming, knowing that the state Michael was in (voluntary or forced), they figured he couldn't do the concerts and all the money involved would fly out of the window. A sick Michael wouldn't produce money anymore, a dead Michael would. So realising this, they COULD have planned 25/06/09 and that could be THE REASON WHY the security-tapes are missing/being erased and why everything went how it went that fatal day.
But in this case Michael would be dead or alive??
Hey Sweet, it was my quote, not Curls :icon_e_smile:
But you have a point here. Could still be both options I guess, although I then wonder if the 'alive' option is voluntary on Michael's part (if Sony is in on it I mean).
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So they're forcing him to go along with their hoax?? Is this what you're saying?
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So they're forcing him to go along with their hoax?? Is this what you're saying?
I keep vacillating on that. I'm afraid that IF this is Sony's hoax, Michael is not here with us anymore.
But if Michael really was sick and drugged (maybe he was drugged without his knowledgde, like in his food -he didn't want to eat anymore, so maybe he was also aware of that possibility-) to the point that everything was becoming to much for him to bear and to the point he couldn't make wise decisions anymore, and was threatened with his debts and loans and to give up his catalog, yes, maybe he is involuntary taking part in something he doesn't want to but was necessary to meet Sony's demands. And maybe Sony has something upcoming for us.....the resurrection of Michael Jackson. The new messiah, the leader of the new world, the miracle comeback we are waiting for?
Curls, I don't know anymore.....
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So they're forcing him to go along with their hoax?? Is this what you're saying?
I keep vacillating on that. I'm afraid that IF this is Sony's hoax, Michael is not here with us anymore.
But if Michael really was sick and drugged (maybe he was drugged without his knowledgde, like in his food -he didn't want to eat anymore, so maybe he was also aware of that possibility-) to the point that everything was becoming to much for him to bear and to the point he couldn't make wise decisions anymore, and was threatened with his debts and loans and to give up his catalog, yes, maybe he is involuntary taking part in something he doesn't want to but was necessary to meet Sony's demands. And maybe Sony has something upcoming for us.....the resurrection of Michael Jackson. The new messiah, the leader of the new world, the miracle comeback we are waiting for?
Curls, I don't know anymore.....
LOL Do welcome to the Club!!
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And maybe Sony has something upcoming for us.....the resurrection of Michael Jackson. The new messiah, the leader of the new world, the miracle comeback we are waiting for?
Subsequent to this, do you know what is being said on the number 777, what we believed was a divine number, worn by Michael many times?
Antichrist
A being with pure intentions. Carries the name of the Antichrist for Christ and God are the ones that must be defeated. The Antichrist will not bring deception on to the Earth and Heavens, but it is foretold that He shall bring a great change to the world. He fights for peace, justice, and knowledge, and under the word and banner of Lord Satan, he shall bring true peace to the world that has been ruled under a God that brings chaos to our lives. He has not yet come, but He walks among the Earth, waiting for his time to rise to be your savior. His number is not 666, for this is Satan's number which he will inscribe onto his son's right hand. But the true number of the Antichrist will be 777.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Antichrist&defid=5997994
So there is division about the meaning of the number 777. Could they have been using Michael for that all along?
(Not that I believe Michael is the Anticrist, and I certainly don't believe Michael would go along with that idea, on the contrary).
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Quote from RemeberHisTime:
'They couldn't have seen 25/06/09 coming'
If Sony/AEG are the backgroundplayers (like Latoya said in interviews that there were backgroundplayers and she knew who they were), then YES, they could have seen this coming, knowing that the state Michael was in (voluntary or forced), they figured he couldn't do the concerts and all the money involved would fly out of the window. A sick Michael wouldn't produce money anymore, a dead Michael would. So realising this, they COULD have planned 25/06/09 and that could be THE REASON WHY the security-tapes are missing/being erased and why everything went how it went that fatal day.
I was thinking that if Sony is really behind the hoax, then their involvement wouldn't have started until August 2009 when they bought the rights to release TII. Therefore they couldn't have planted the other clues prior to that. What about the ambulance? The missing security camera footage? The garbage bags? MJ sitting up in the helicopter? The switched lyrics of "Smile" at the memorial, the use of the photo from Liberian Girl, "I'm alive and I'm here forever," Paris's interjection, the green screen at the funeral, and not to mention no name on the tomb??? Sony couldn't have been responsible for all that hoaxy stuff way back when. And I doubt AEG would have planned all that stuff, seeing as they sold their rights afterward, and we are saying for the sake of argument that Sony is currently orchestrating the hoax for financial benefit. I don't think that's clear at all but it makes sense in my head!
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Ah, come on now guys - it's one thing to objectively reassess facts and genuine evidence and be prepared for them to lead to a possible different conclusion, but we should avoid employing over active imaginations and inventing new and totally unsupported scenarios.
What has happened to cause minds to be changed and doubts to creep in? No matter how much disruption/unease/confusion may have been experienced in hoaxland recently (which I imagine is at the root of this), the fundamentals, uncomplicated by fans, forums, blogs etc still remain, and continue to point squarely at this being MJ's hoax.
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What has happened to cause minds to be changed and doubts to creep in?
Time and impatience I guess. Btw my last post was nothing more than an observation, never seen before 'till yesterday...Nothing to do with Michael, no doubt! But it was already late and I was a bit melancholy, sorry for that. Curls, you are right about the fundamentals, but I don't close my eyes to the fact that we could be wrong and that there might be a different scenario.
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Do, I can't believe yours is the only new post on the whole forum since I went to bed last night! My breakfast read is mega short today! I guess time and impatience are taking their toll on everyone. :icon_e_sad:
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Ah, come on now guys - it's one thing to objectively reassess facts and genuine evidence and be prepared for them to lead to a possible different conclusion, but we should avoid employing over active imaginations and inventing new and totally unsupported scenarios.
What has happened to cause minds to be changed and doubts to creep in? No matter how much disruption/unease/confusion may have been experienced in hoaxland recently (which I imagine is at the root of this), the fundamentals, uncomplicated by fans, forums, blogs etc still remain, and continue to point squarely at this being MJ's hoax.
This is what I'm trying to get at--what are the fundamentals?
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I was thinking that if Sony is really behind the hoax, then their involvement wouldn't have started until August 2009 when they bought the rights to release TII. Therefore they couldn't have planted the other clues prior to that. What about the ambulance? The missing security camera footage? The garbage bags? MJ sitting up in the helicopter? The switched lyrics of "Smile" at the memorial, the use of the photo from Liberian Girl, "I'm alive and I'm here forever," Paris's interjection, the green screen at the funeral, and not to mention no name on the tomb??? Sony couldn't have been responsible for all that hoaxy stuff way back when. And I doubt AEG would have planned all that stuff, seeing as they sold their rights afterward, and we are saying for the sake of argument that Sony is currently orchestrating the hoax for financial benefit. I don't think that's clear at all but it makes sense in my head!
This is what I'm trying to get at--what ate the fundamentals
I'm not sure if I understand you correctly, but I think what Curls means are the fundamentals like mentioned in your first quote. Although all these fundamentals could be planted by both Michael or 'backgrounders' or were genuine mistakes (Smile lyrics) and who says that it was Michael in the helicopter? These are all assumptions on our part :icon_e_sad:
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Do, I can't believe yours is the only new post on the whole forum since I went to bed last night! My breakfast read is mega short today! I guess time and impatience are taking their toll on everyone. :icon_e_sad:
Curls, I know eh :icon_e_sad:
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Do, I can't believe yours is the only new post on the whole forum since I went to bed last night! My breakfast read is mega short today! I guess time and impatience are taking their toll on everyone. :icon_e_sad:
I prefer not to post so you all don't get depressed I am being so negative lately that I prefer just wait and see if something happens.
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I was going to suggest we compile a list of 'fundamentals' Things that really happened, or at least were reported as really happening. No opinions, no speculation, no assumptions, just facts as presented to the world before hoax forums and personalities started (possibly) muddying the waters. But then I thought it'd probably be a reproduction of 'the weird list'! However, having just skimmed over it I think we could probably do better now - there are hoaxers mindsets and opinions influencing the way many things are presented there, and I'd like to see a list without that slant.
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forum/index.php/page,the_weird_list.html
Is anyone up for this? Would it be of any benefit? Or is it just reinventing the wheel!
@sunset, PM me if you want to chat.
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I personally feel that everything, each and every clue/event, when put together, bring out the sense of an existence of a hoax. And by that I mean whatever happened before and after Michael's 'Death'. I really don't understand how we can ever debunk this whole 'Sony is behind MJ's hoax' thing,, because every information that was ever given to us after 6/25 could have been manipulated and/or created and everything that happened before 6/25 could have merely been a coincidence (which surprisingly don't seem coincidental at all!)
@Bec, when you created this thread, did you really have something very significant in your mind that would, without looking back, prove that all of this is indeed Michael's hoax, or are you just putting forth this parallel theory?
Because if you do have an answer, I'm sure the rest of us will find that out...somehow.
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yes i have lots of answers in my mind but i was hoping the forum would rally n compile it all n in the process remind everyone that we do indeed have something here, n have all along. i didn't want to have to pull a ts n finish this myself. curls is on the right track' rememberhistime too. im stuck in a hotel all weekend on my tablet so its awkward n out of my element til tomorrow night.
cmon guys, this is not that hard. get your chins up out of the dirt n remember why we all came here in the first place. there are very obvious things thatsony could NOT control n further, werent in the business to control at the time they went down. sony doesnt OWN mj, people. come on.
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Similarities to Elvis. Sorry, I see RK already put this forward, and bec tossed it aside as coincidence or orchestrated by Sony. Don't agree with this, but if bec's following a train of thought, I won't stop her!
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bec is this what you had in mind when you wrote: "Sony does not own MJ"?
1985 ATV Music Publishing and its assets, Pye Records and Northern Songs, are again put up for sale. Singer Michael Jackson acquires them for $47.5 million.
1995 Jackson merges ATV Music Publishing with Sony. He earns $90 million in the venture.........Through the agreement, Jackson would become one of the most important shareholders in Sony.[
2012 Sony/ATV leads a consortium that acquires EMI Music Publishing, the world's largest catalog with over 1,300,000 rights to songs, making Sony/ATV the world's largest music publishing corporation with over 2,000,000 songs and about 1.26 billion dollars in revenue per year.
Sony/ATV Music Publishing is the largest music publishing company in the world and is co-owned by Sony Corporation and the Estate of Michael Jackson.
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cuz mj owns sony lol
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Numerology. Changed my mind! I was alerted to this aspect by a hoax 'personality', who of course, could be involved with Sony.
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btw, when was Sony's 'make.believe' logo released? I know it's in 2009 but i can't find which month....anyone knows?
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btw, when was Sony's 'make.believe' logo released? I know it's in 2009 but i can't find which month....anyone knows?
Thriller, it was on Septemer 2, 2009.
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So what evidence do we have that Michael is alive, going back to the events of D-Day up until Sony's purchase of rights to TII in August 2009?
TMZ was the first to report on Michael "Death" on June 25, 2009. In fact earlier than the official 'death' announcement.
TMZ is originally a collaboration between AOL (America Oline) and Telepictures (Subdivision on Warner Bros.) until Time Warner divested AOL.
{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TMZ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TMZ)}
On November 12, 2001: Time Warner (formerly known as AOL Time Warner) and Sony Corporation (which might include ATV publishing which is co-owned by MJ's estate/Michael Jackson) had announced to expand their strategic relationship "TO ACCELERATE NEXT-GENERATION ONLINE ENTERTAINMENT AND OTHER CONSUMER BROADBAND EXPERIENCES "
{http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press_Archive/200111/01-1113BE/ (http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press_Archive/200111/01-1113BE/)}
So Michael Jackson has a relation with TMZ, even though it's kind of indirect. Michael may have used his influence to report an early death announcement triggering the hoax.
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Michael's O2 Arena concert announcements where he says "This is the final curtain call"
Final curtain call:
- The Final Curtain (2000): Skaggs' creation was a combined funeral company, virtual graveyard and theme park. It was meant to satirize showmanship in places like Forest Lawn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forest_Lawn_Memorial-Parks_%26_Mortuaries) cemeteries. Some investors were actually interested. Final Curtain's website is still functioning. (http://www.finalcurtain.com/)
{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joey_Skaggs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joey_Skaggs)}
Another post on a forum titled 1998 Joey Skaggs [everyone's familiar with MJ's 1998 signature signed back in 1988]
In 1998, Skaggs put together an international team of volunteer writers, artists, and designers to create The Final Curtain It was immediately accepted by the public as a reality without question. Skaggs always leaves clues in his [hoax] performances.
{http://truthprevails.heavenforum.org/t252-1998-joey-skaggs (http://truthprevails.heavenforum.org/t252-1998-joey-skaggs)}
So, MJ is supposedly buried in Forest Lawn. But folks working at FL deny that.
This one's got nothing to do with Sony.
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Doubter! Makes no sense, they make no money off a hoax, tons of money was made off a 'death'. The estate (aka MJ himselves) made tons of money because people thought MJ was dead, not because they thought MJ was alive. Sony behind the hoax? Yes of course! MJ is Sony, MJ is the estate, MJ is tons of other stuff forking in over this so called death. The one making money off of this hoax is MJ himself. I guess he needs some extra cash on top of his billions for his take-over. Stop doubting bec!
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Pretty sure bec's not doubting Souza, she's just testing! I agree with your post, I said as much right at the start of this thread. But it doesn't do any harm to reassess things, give our DA minds a workout, and now is as good a time as any.
I still think everything we need to know regarding whose hoax this is, is (hiding) in pre-death stuff. Anything after 25th June has the potential for manipulation. I wish I could put my finger on something concrete that bec can't say 'coincidence' to!
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no souza, bec's not doubting at all. This is a way to ward off the 'sony is behind this hoax' theory forever.
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That leads us back to "MJ made a deal with Sony". i mean MJ = the brand, not the man as a human being.
Michael needed Sony has a technical/financial/media to support the hoax.
Now saying Sony doesn't make money with the hoax... hmm they get profit either.
But as you say, Sony IS MJ... so who cares what door the money uses to get in, as long as it ends in the same pocket...
Now i guess MJ is not the only one to decide in Sony, this is why i said he "sold" the project to Sony. Because he needed a huge support to deal with this personnal project.
He, as estate, makes money about it, and the rest of it goes to Sony, but Sony is part of him too. So in the end he gets the largest piece of the cake.
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Thank god I'm back home.
Anyway, so follow the money, has been a popular mantra of murder or escape theory supporters for a long time and each time that bit comes up it drives me crazy because if they would just follow that trail all the way to the end it lands directly in MJ's own lap.
I'll probably comment more here tonight, I just wanted to throw that out as a general comment upon skimming the new posts on the thread.
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I think it's illegal to fake your death for money? Isn't that stated in Californian Law ?
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Pretty sure bec's not doubting Souza, she's just testing! I agree with your post, I said as much right at the start of this thread. But it doesn't do any harm to reassess things, give our DA minds a workout, and now is as good a time as any.
I still think everything we need to know regarding whose hoax this is, is (hiding) in pre-death stuff. Anything after 25th June has the potential for manipulation. I wish I could put my finger on something concrete that bec can't say 'coincidence' to!
Curls, the biggest clue that predates his death is the reinstallment of John Branca, long time Sonybuddy, A WEEK before Michael suddenly died. What a coincidence. Michael never wanted Branca to be any part of his business EVER again. Branca makes millions for himself and Sony, meanwhile Katherine gets a monthly 'allowance'.
Telling quote from Branca to Katherine: 'I'm Michael Jackson now'. How compassionate.
A look back at what happened those days: http://www.truth4mj.it/mj/index.php?option=com_content&id=300:the-jacksons-vs-branca-and-mcclain-the-story-told-by-a-former-reporter-for-rolling-stone-randall-sullivan&Itemid=61
The above is just a small part of the story. If we consider what happened over the years, most of the events are not in favor of Michael, the kids, or the family, except the money making part, which I'm pretty sure was not the reason for Michael to hoax his death.
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So what evidence do we have that Michael is alive, going back to the events of D-Day up until Sony's purchase of rights to TII in August 2009?
TMZ was the first to report on Michael "Death" on June 25, 2009. In fact earlier than the official 'death' announcement.
Could be that they were informed by someone inside the hospital. And if not.....If you want the biggest scoop of a lifetime, then you have to take the opportunity when there is one. TMZ knew, ofcourse, that Michael was in the hospital in very bad shape and they took their chances. And they were lucky. Now the whole world knows TMZ.
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So what evidence do we have that Michael is alive, going back to the events of D-Day up until Sony's purchase of rights to TII in August 2009?
TMZ was the first to report on Michael "Death" on June 25, 2009. In fact earlier than the official 'death' announcement.
Could be that they were informed by someone inside the hospital. And if not.....If you want the biggest scoop of a lifetime, then you have to take the opportunity when there is one. TMZ knew, ofcourse, that Michael was in the hospital in very bad shape and they took their chances. And they were lucky. Now the whole world knows TMZ.
well, considering all the TMZ posts after that, the June 25 report can be regarded as something Michael could have done. They were the first in reporting many other Michael news. I'd suppose they weren't taking chances for all of those other reports.
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So what evidence do we have that Michael is alive, going back to the events of D-Day up until Sony's purchase of rights to TII in August 2009?
TMZ was the first to report on Michael "Death" on June 25, 2009. In fact earlier than the official 'death' announcement.
Could be that they were informed by someone inside the hospital. And if not.....If you want the biggest scoop of a lifetime, then you have to take the opportunity when there is one. TMZ knew, ofcourse, that Michael was in the hospital in very bad shape and they took their chances. And they were lucky. Now the whole world knows TMZ.
well, considering all the TMZ posts after that, the June 25 report can be regarded as something Michael could have done. They were the first in reporting many other Michael news. I'd suppose they weren't taking chances for all of those other reports.
That is true, but there are many rumours and statements that Harvey Levin, John Branca and Howard Weitzman were/are all working together. So it's pretty easy to get all news first handed.
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Anyway, so follow the money, has been a popular mantra of murder or escape theory supporters for a long time and each time that bit comes up it drives me crazy because if they would just follow that trail all the way to the end it lands directly in MJ's own lap.
Remember this?
(http://vallieegirl67.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/michael_jackson_plane_l.jpg?w=593)
Somehow I got un-notified from this thread. Maybe if I reply again I'll start getting email alerts?
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So what evidence do we have that Michael is alive, going back to the events of D-Day up until Sony's purchase of rights to TII in August 2009?
TMZ was the first to report on Michael "Death" to June 25, 2009. In fact earlier than the official 'death' announcement.
Could be that they were informed by someone inside the hospital. And if not.....If you want the biggest scoop of a lifetime, then you have to take the opportunity when there is one. TMZ knew, ofcourse, that Michael was in the hospital in very bad shape and they took their chances. And they were lucky. Now the whole world knows TMZ.
well, considering all the TMZ posts after that, the June 25 report can be regarded as something Michael could have done. They were the first in reporting many other Michael news. I'd suppose they weren't taking chances for all of those other reports.
That is true, but there are many rumours and statements that Harvey Levin, John Branca and Howard Weitzman were/are all working together. So it's pretty easy to get all news first handed.
Yes. I'd like to add one thing to support my point.
We know that the Pepsi burn accident stands exactly in the middle from Michael's birth to June 25(his supposed death).
So to have this kind of numerology, this death day is orchestrated. June 25th was either murder or a death hoax.
Since we don't have any evidence to prove a murder theory, it only leaves us with a death hoax which can only be done by Michael. Now, since this is Michael's death hoax, the "executors" of his estate will def collaborate with MJ.
TMZ has had a part in making everything seem hoaxy, no wonder John Branca and the lawyer Howard Weitzman were following MJ's instruction.
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Well, I believe Curls came up with this on a previous page in this thread, but it would be a good idea to put all the EVIDENCE that Michael is still alive, in a list.
And that means no assumptions, but FACTS. Pictures from Michael from Liberian Girl is no evidence, neither is the missing name on his grave. This could simply mean that he isn't buried there. The fact that the burn accident was exactly in the middle between his birth and dead date, isn't a fact either that he is still alive. The moving man on the gurney in the helicopter....could be anybody.
Fact is that Michael was afraid, was talking about conspiracies all around him, and told family members that 'they' were going to kill him for his money/catalogues.
We have discovered a lot these years, somebody can put up real evidence, please do so!
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@Do, how can you consider the pepsi accident being right midway to be a coincidence concerning the intense numerology involved in this whole hoax. That is constructed, created.
and it proves he is alive because it is concerned with the 'death' on June 25th. It directly involves Michael. And such perfect coincidences are mostly orchestrated.
what according to you are real evidences, then?
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^^^
Numerology has never been 'evidence' for me. If I think about it, the only 'real' evidence for me was Dave Dave. Because for me, that could be Michael. Everything else that I considered as 'evidence' (laughing family members, saying 'the best is yet to come', Joe Jackson promoting his record label 2 days after Michael died, ambiguous tweets of the family etc. etc.) has faded with time and isn't plausible anymore since all the other serious events took place.
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Well, being really skeptical, Dave Dave could also have been a perfectly trained MJ impersonator in a burns victim disguise.
[i'm posting this for the sake of being skeptical]
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I'm thinking the problem, and actually the genius of this hoax, is that taken in isolation any 'proofs' that we may come up with could be coincidences or random as yet unexplained events - it's only when put all together do they spell intentional and hoax. Can we come up with anything that has to be an intentional pointer to a hoax, no room for doubt, couldn't possibly be a coincidence or evidence of something other than a hoax? And if we can do that, does it also point to whose hoax it is? LOL I guess that's what these 4 years have been about eh?!
@Do and Thriller, I thought about the 9282 days as well (hope I remembered the number right) - that gets even die hard sceptics raising their eyebrows! But does it have to mean hoax?
(I've been feeling drawn to go back to TS's posts these past few days, with thoughts such as this, but I really don't want to do that - I want us to solve this once and for all with no help/guidance/manipulation/steering from online 'personalities'!)
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Well, being really skeptical, Dave Dave could also have been a perfectly trained MJ impersonator in a burns victim disguise.
[i'm posting this for the sake of being skeptical]
Thriller, I couldn't agree with you more, because the Dave Dave 'evidence', like the other 'evidence' to me, has faded with time and I believe, now that I changed my mind set, it could be an 'actor' with a manipulated voice.
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@Curls To me that number is one of the greatest proofs that all of this hoax is Michael's.
And i had explained that too
We know that the Pepsi burn accident stands exactly in the middle from Michael's birth to June 25(his supposed death).
So to have this kind of numerology, this death day is orchestrated. June 25th was either murder or a death hoax.
Since we don't have any evidence to prove a murder theory, it only leaves us with a death hoax which can only be done by Michael.
This day of June 25th was set, it was determined, previously decided. A murder is impossible, and the other option is only a 'death hoax'.
@Do... ikr, curls said it right. The clues of this hoax when taken separately dont make sense...together they do.
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Thriller, why is murder impossible? Because we don't WANT Michael to be murdered?
Los Angeles (CNN) -- Michael Jackson's nephew testified Thursday that he believes his uncle was murdered.
T.J. Jackson, the youngest son of Jackson brother Tito, revealed his suspicion while being cross examined by an AEG Live lawyer in the Michael Jackson wrongful death trial.
"Do you believe your uncle was murdered?" AEG Live attorney Jessica Stebbins Bina asked T.J. Jackson.
"I do," he answered. "I believe it because he did tell me and the brothers that he was going to be murdered on a couple of occasions.
"He said that just because of his position he was a target."
T.J. Jackson had earlier testified that his mother, Delores Jackson, was the victim of murder 19 years ago.
"My mother was murdered for money, too, so I don't put that past anyone," he said.
Initially it was believed that his mother, Delores Martes Jackson, who had divorced from Tito Jackson in 1993, drowned in a swimming pool, but the case was reopened, and her sons in 1995 filed a wrongful-death lawsuit against a man they accused of killing her. Three years later, the man was convicted of second-degree murder and sentenced to 15 years to life in prison.
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/06/27/showbiz/jackson-death-trial/index.html
La Toya said right after his death that she believed he was murdered, and back then, I thought that would be for hoax purposes. But to maintain that claim of murder 'till recently (by T.J.), that adds to my reconsiderations about the hoax like we believed it existed.
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Fact is that Michael was afraid, was talking about conspiracies all around him, and told family members that 'they' were going to kill him for his money/catalogues.
What makes this a Fact, in your opinion? Before you answer, please consider that statements are not Facts, other then it being a Fact that the speaker uttered certain words n phrases, but a statement itself is not a Fact, as example, courts consider statements hearsay and circumstantial evidence. The credibility of the witness needs to be taken into account. Not even if he said it under oath (as there exists the thing called perjury) does it render a statement a Fact.
Example: Gavin Arviso stated that MJ molested him. Fact?
Further example: MJ stated that he loves to tour -cut the tape-. Fact?
Michael never wanted Branca to be any part of his business EVER again.
Please expound? How do you know this? What makes you believe this is a Fact?
Murder is not 'impossible'. It is simply unsupported by the evidence to date. If you would like to dispute that, Do, please offer supportive evidence to the murder theory. Because to date, I don't believe we have seen any that makes the murder theory plausible.
Well, I believe Curls came up with this on a previous page in this thread, but it would be a good idea to put all the EVIDENCE that Michael is still alive, in a list.
And that means no assumptions, but FACTS.
Perhaps, as an example, or cornerstone, someone should offer up an undisputed FACT that exists in this world. Just a simple, random FACT so we can look for something like that in the death hoax investigation. So, what is an example of a generally held n accepted FACT in life?
Ah, come on now guys - it's one thing to objectively reassess facts and genuine evidence and be prepared for them to lead to a possible different conclusion, but we should avoid employing over active imaginations and inventing new and totally unsupported scenarios.
Yes, agreed. It is easy for our imaginations to get carried away. We need to stay realistic. And debunking the same theory over n over again doesn't get us anywhere.
I think it's illegal to fake your death for money? Isn't that stated in Californian Law ?
Like this. Sorry @Thriller to use your post as an example but this one has been done to death since pretty much the day after D day. It is indeed illegal to fake your death in order to A) collect insurance money (life insurance or other death benefits), B) escape a court order, or C) evade taxes. Otherwise it's perfectly legal in the US to 'pretend' to be dead.
So how, in your opinion, would MJ have broken the law by hoaxing his death?
Before you answer, recall that none of the official MJJ merchandise sold states "RIP" or "in memory of" MJ or equivalent.
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oh bec....that was actually supposed to be a comment....not a question. :icon_e_biggrin:
i know it's misleading!
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Ok?
If I'm not mistaken, you offered your comment as an attempt to debate MJ=Sony being behind the hoax. As in, MJ can't be behind Sony's involvement in the hoax because that would be somehow illegal, which I demonstrated is not applicable to the circumstances.
Example: try to prove that MJJ merchandise would NOT have sold if MJ had NOT "died" on 6/25/09. That would be the burden placed on a prosecutor who attempted to bring suit against MJ after bamsday. Man, good luck with that one.
I guess I'm done playing DA lol.
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Bec, I almost cannot believe you are asking me to elaborate on this. But here you have Michael HIMSELF talking about conspiracy. Is he credible enough?
This is an excerpt of the interview Michael gave to Jesse Jackson’s radio show on March 27, 2005, which happened during the trial itself. Starts here with Michael’s revelation about the Conspiracy.
Jesse Jackson Interview, March 27, 2005 Radio Show
Jesse: And so, you-you-you-you had these hits, ahem, and people that you have embraced are now facing you in court on a daily basis. How does your spirit handle that?
Michael: Ah, I gained strength from God. I believe in Jehovah God very much and ah, and I gain strength from the fact that I know I’m innocent ~~ none of these stories are true ~~ they are totally fabricated, and it’s very sad, it’s very, very painful. And I pray a lot and er, that’s how I deal with it and I’m a strong person, I’m a warrior. And I know what’s inside of me. I’m a fighter. But it’s very painful. At the end of the day, I’m human, you know, I’m still a human being. So it does hurt very, very, very much.
Michael's Arrest in 2003
Jesse: You and I were watching, you know you and I were talking last week on the phone and – and there was this rhythm of the trial, which we will not get into at all today, but then they shifted from the focus of the trial to say you are broke. And last week, people are calling in, all around the nation saying, “Is Michael broke”? Michael, are you broke???
Michael: That’s not true at all. It’s one of their many schemes to embarrass me and to just drag me through mud. And it’s the same pattern, like I told you before with these other people in the past. Same pattern. Don’t believe, you know, this is tabloid, sensationalized kind of gossip.
Jesse: Well, how did the money issue get in it in the first place? Some people called and they thought it was about the Sony catalog. What’s- what’s in that catalog?
Michael: In my Sony Catalog, is all the Beatles music, ahem, all of the music I own – I own Sly and the Family Stone, I-I own such a volume of so many, I own Elvis – so many Elvis songs and it’s a huge catalog, very valuable, it’s worth a lot of money. And there is a big fight going on right now, as we speak about that. Now, I can’t say whether or not – I can’t comment on it, but there’s a lot of conspiracy, I’ll say that – conspiracy going on as we speak.
Jesse: It was suggested by a number of your friends and family members was that this fight was really more about this catalog issue than it is any thing else. Do you believe that?
Michael: Well, you know, I don’t want to comment. I don’t want to make a comment, Jessie ah—it’s a real delicate issue and uh, I’ll let you, I’ll let you make the comment on that one.
Jesse: Let me shift this to this extent. Ahem, since so many people are listening and there have been so many opinions – I was in London a couple of weeks ago, and 24/7 was Michael Jackson all-day-long and all-night-long and the day that you came to the hospital late [to court], you said you were injured. What happened that day?
Michael: I was coming, er, out of the shower and I-I-I fell. And all my body weight, and I’m pretty fragile, all my body weight fell against my rib cage. And I pretty much, er, er, I bruised my lung very badly. My lung is on the right, it’s very [sp], it’s, I’m in pain as we speak and ah, I’ve been going to court everyday in immense pain and agonizing pain. And I sit there – and I’m strong, I try to be as strong as I can. So I can, ahh, but what we are looking for is the coughing of blood now. The doctor said I should – he said it’s still very dangerous as we speak, and if I cough the blood, he said it’s a very dangerous thing, so we’re, we’re still watching it very closely.
Jesse: The cynics said you were faking. And it seems that the judge is [sic] will not even willing to believe you, even though you had just left the hospital.
Michael: You know the – there’s no faking with this at all. I mean there was a scan done and you could see, uhhh, the swelling on my whole rib cage, I mean, uh, it was you could see it and it’s bright red. And how it, it [the fall] busted my chin, and it put a huge gash over my forehead, blood, it was er, it was very bad actually. And er, but errr, we’ve treating it actually, I do have some medicine for it, but we are watching it very closely.
Jesse: As I listen to your talking about this whole ordeal that you are going through, and how you’ve er, stood strong sometimes amazingly so, ah, at some point last week, you – you cried. What-what touched you? What made you, breakdown, as it were?
Michael: You mean at court?
Jesse: Yeah.
Michael: I was in pain. I was sitting there hurting. And er, the pain was so immense, all I could do was to sit there and cry. See, because it er, it was so intense at that moment, ah, ahem, I just couldn’t handle it. So I just grab tissues and just put it to my face… and…
Jesse: So, it was more about your personal pain, than the, than the challenges of the, from the stand?
Michael: No, it had nothing to do with what was going on inside. It was totally with personal pain, physical pain.
Michael's Injuries from Arrest in 2003
Jesse: Michael, since so many people are listening, I’m trying to gleam from some of our calls on the phone today and from last week, as people listen to you, what do you want people to know? Those listening to you on the phone – I see calls from Philadelphia, and from Holland and from Britian and New York and Mississippi and Florida, California – what do you want people to know?
Michael: About?
Jesse: About you. About where you are now in the head, how you are feeling?
Michael: Well, ahem, pretty much to-to be strong for me, to pray for my children and my family and myself. This is uh…uh very difficult time and to not believe what they hear, and see and read and just because it’s in print does not make it… just because it’s in print does not make it the gospel. And uh… you know, because they have sensationalized this thing to an immense degree. It’s a feeding frenzy – it’s because of uh, my celebrity. The bigger the celebrity, the bigger the target. And they have to remember that. So they’ve turned this into money – it’s like who gets the biggest ratings, you know, it’s terrible what’s happened with it. But it’s part of what I have to suffer [through] as a celebrity. It’s part-part of what I have to go through. And to just uh, just know in the end that I will be vindicated, I pray, because I know the truth. I’m an innocent person. And I believe in God and love God. And just continue to pray for us.
Jesse: You know that, given your faith, in God and in yourself, and your declaration of innocence and while you are going through this storm ahem, presuming that you ah – win this, this has been a close battle, ahhh, a very intense battle, because the battle is-is not over, ah, the, appearance, given your relationship ahh, has called for lots of consternation. Is there anything that you will do differently? When this season is over?
Michael: Is there anything that I would do differently?
Jesse: Differently? When this season is over?
Michael: (Clears throat) Ahem, my level of trust will change. And ah, there-there there’s a lot of conspiracy going on. I’ll say that much. A lot of it.
Jesse: Do you think that….
Michael: All around me.
Jesse: Is the conspiracy connected to the celebrity or to the trial or to the catalog – what do you think the source of it is?
Michael: I-I can’t comment. I can’t comment Jessie, I-I don’t wanna… it ah, I’m under a gag order and it’s a very serious thing. I don’t want to say the wrong thing. With the wrong flavor. It’s a very delicate area. Very delicate where we are now.
Jesse: Good. Good. Let me ask you this question though, that for those who are praying fervently, want to help and look forward to seeing Michael Jackson again. What can people expect next from you?
Michael: Well, like-like I always say, I’m-I’m a person of the arts. I love the arts very, very, very much. And ah, I’m a musician, I’m a director, I’m a writer, I’m a composer, I’m a producer, and I love the medium. I love film very, very much. I think it’s the most expressive of all of the art mediums. The sculptor can sculpt, the painter can paint, but they capture a moment, ah, they freeze time with the moment. In film, you live the moment. You live, you have the, audiences for two hours. You have their brain, their mind – you can take them any place you want to take them. You know, and that idea is mesmerizing to me – that you can have the power to do people, to move people to change their lives and that’s where you to marry the music [and the] individual together. And that’s what excites me so much about film and the future. Because I love motion pictures very, very much.
Jesse: Given, ah, the, heat that is on you and the taxing issue that you are facing now, does it deter you from pursuing your career when this is over?
Michael: No! No. Not at all. Because ahem, I know who I am (clears throat) inside and outside and I know what I want to do. And I will always – er – you know, go with my dreams and my ideals in life. And I’m a very courageous person and I believe in perseverance, determination, and-and, you know, and all those wonderful things, and those ideals are very important for a person who is goal-orientated, you know? end of excerpt...
There is also an audio version of this.
Below a small part of the 60 minutes interview
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_sACB_alw6g
[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=_sACB_alw6g[/youtube]
Jermaine talking about conspiracy (short version)
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aDAo_aHfC74
[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=aDAo_aHfC74[/youtube]
Furthermore, family members like Latoya (on tape) and T.J. (in court) said that Michael told him they were going to kill him. Are family members only credible when they talk hoax language?
On the 'Michael Jackson never wanted Branco to be any part of his business ever again', I put a link about that in one of my previous posts, didn't you read that?
You said: it's easy for our imaginations to get carried away.
Yes, I really start to believe that's what happened to us hoaxers.
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Bec, you also asked to put up supportive evidence to the murder theory, but you and I both know that some murder cases will forever remain surrounded with riddles or be dismissed as suicide especially if there is something to hide or when there is a lot at stake or when people's silence is bought.
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@bec,
It was a very general statement bec....i meant that Michael would very careful in these kind of legal stuff. that's it.
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Bec, what I meant with fact is that what Michael was telling, we should take in consideration, rather then dismiss it because it's not fitting the hoax. For the hoax, we only have many assumptions and, I admit, some strange statements from family members put together. If I wasn't intriged by that, I wouldn't be here all these years.
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@Curls To me that number is one of the greatest proofs that all of this hoax is Michael's.
And i had explained that too
We know that the Pepsi burn accident stands exactly in the middle from Michael's birth to June 25(his supposed death).
So to have this kind of numerology, this death day is orchestrated. June 25th was either murder or a death hoax.
Since we don't have any evidence to prove a murder theory, it only leaves us with a death hoax which can only be done by Michael.
This day of June 25th was set, it was determined, previously decided. A murder is impossible, and the other option is only a 'death hoax'.
@Do... ikr, curls said it right. The clues of this hoax when taken separately dont make sense...together they do.
Agree with you Thriller, this number 9282 could be a well calculated number to kill Michael however the sum of it all makes 21 (777) and that number shouts MJ no doubt for me that has been planned by our man.
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Quote Bec:
Perhaps, as an example, or cornerstone, someone should offer up an undisputed FACT that exists in this world. Just a simple, random FACT so we can look for something like that in the death hoax investigation. So, what is an example of a generally held n accepted FACT in life?
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forum/index.php/topic,24082.msg447021/topicseen.html#new
Fact: we're all born and we're all going to die one day. That is the most undisputed fact there is.
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When you murder someone as big as Michael Jackson you can't left evidence behind for public to find out about it. Why would we have any evidence of a carefully planned murder. I don't think we as outsiders could figure out much if it was a murder.
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Fact is that Michael was afraid, was talking about conspiracies all around him, and told family members that 'they' were going to kill him for his money/catalogues.
What makes this a Fact, in your opinion? Before you answer, please consider that statements are not Facts, other then it being a Fact that the speaker uttered certain words n phrases, but a statement itself is not a Fact, as example, courts consider statements hearsay and circumstantial evidence. The credibility of the witness needs to be taken into account. Not even if he said it under oath (as there exists the thing called perjury) does it render a statement a Fact.
Example: Gavin Arviso stated that MJ molested him. Fact?
Further example: MJ stated that he loves to tour -cut the tape-. Fact?
Michael never wanted Branca to be any part of his business EVER again.
Please expound? How do you know this? What makes you believe this is a Fact?
Murder is not 'impossible'. It is simply unsupported by the evidence to date. If you would like to dispute that, Do, please offer supportive evidence to the murder theory. Because to date, I don't believe we have seen any that makes the murder theory plausible.
Well, I believe Curls came up with this on a previous page in this thread, but it would be a good idea to put all the EVIDENCE that Michael is still alive, in a list.
And that means no assumptions, but FACTS.
Perhaps, as an example, or cornerstone, someone should offer up an undisputed FACT that exists in this world. Just a simple, random FACT so we can look for something like that in the death hoax investigation. So, what is an example of a generally held n accepted FACT in life?
Ah, come on now guys - it's one thing to objectively reassess facts and genuine evidence and be prepared for them to lead to a possible different conclusion, but we should avoid employing over active imaginations and inventing new and totally unsupported scenarios.
Yes, agreed. It is easy for our imaginations to get carried away. We need to stay realistic. And debunking the same theory over n over again doesn't get us anywhere.
I think it's illegal to fake your death for money? Isn't that stated in Californian Law ?
Like this. Sorry @Thriller to use your post as an example but this one has been done to death since pretty much the day after D day. It is indeed illegal to fake your death in order to A) collect insurance money (life insurance or other death benefits), B) escape a court order, or C) evade taxes. Otherwise it's perfectly legal in the US to 'pretend' to be dead.
So how, in your opinion, would MJ have broken the law by hoaxing his death?
Before you answer, recall that none of the official MJJ merchandise sold states "RIP" or "in memory of" MJ or equivalent.
The mere fact that CM was so clumsy handling the alleged MJ overdose of Propofol, being hung on the cell phone with his girlfriend during 20 minutes, not being capable to practice CPR on him, etc..... could be just a pretext to seem innocent but the real intention was to leave Michael die, maybe we could be wrong and CM is the fall guy but the criminal too handled by THEM.
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^^^
Sweet, you're absolutely right, the way CM handled this is ofcourse VERY suspicious, and all eyes were on him after that. This could absolutely be a plausible murder theory.
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Oh come on guys - if somebody rly murdered MJ, then this person (whoever it is) would do anything to avoid speculation, buzz and inconstances... A murder means no odd memorial, no body missing, no weird burial, no photoshopped photos (ambulance, autopsies...), no strange family's behaviour (because no! I do not believe that they would be a part of a murder plot), no Dave Dave and ridiculous death certificates, no trials, no toys... Nothing of that sort!!! And uhm...those things are all that this "death" is about... So please let's stay logical and though we know very well that the recent events weren't really optimistic, we shouldn't forget about everything we've learnt thoughout those past 4 years... Keep the faith and carry on :D
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No, MJ is not credible. I mentioned that earlier: "I love to tour" *cameras cut* "I hate to tour". He's not in the slightest bit credible. He's an actor. When's he acting? When's he telling the truth? No one besides himself, god, and possibly his mother know. So no, the man is anything but credible.
I'm sorry, you seem to be getting upset, Do. I'm just trying to point out anomalies.
Quote Bec:
QuotePerhaps, as an example, or cornerstone, someone should offer up an undisputed FACT that exists in this world. Just a simple, random FACT so we can look for something like that in the death hoax investigation. So, what is an example of a generally held n accepted FACT in life?
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forum/index.php/topic,24082.msg447021/topicseen.html#new (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forum/index.php/topic,24082.msg447021/topicseen.html#new)
Fact: we're all born and we're all going to die one day. That is the most undisputed fact there is.
.
Yes, and that's about where it starts n ends. Now, do you think we are going to find any Facts in this investigation?
Not likely. But we still have Logic. And we should employ that as much as possible.
Bec, what I meant with fact is that what Michael was telling, we should take in consideration, rather then dismiss it because it's not fitting the hoax. For the hoax, we only have many assumptions and, I admit, some strange statements from family members put together. If I wasn't intriged by that, I wouldn't be here all these years.
I don't dismiss it, I actually think it fits in perfectly. It's like Moonwalker's plot.
As far as the murder theory, there's a reason it's never received major support. Why in the world would any murderer bother with orchestrating a fake hoax for years after the fact in order to cover up their crime? It's an absurd theory.
Not to mention the murder theory requires the entire Jackson Family to stand idly by and even participate in the murder's fake hoax, which really suggests that the Jacksons are all a bunch of psychopaths with no conscience and no sense of loss in MJ's death. This is also absurd. Sure maybe one or two psychopaths could be in an extended family, it could happen, but all of them? Every last one, down to the cousins and nephews? Even the 13-15 year old daughter? Come on. Now that to me is someone's imagination getting carried away with them.
We've already introduced powerful evidence that MJ's estate has profited the most from MJ's death and that Sony is largely owned/controlled by MJ, so the murder theory really doesn't make any sense because we lack motive and a perpetrator.
The mere fact that CM was so clumsy handling the alleged MJ overdose of Propofol, being hung on the cell phone with his girlfriend during 20 minutes, not being capable to practice CPR on him, etc..... could be just a pretext to seem innocent but the real intention was to leave Michael die, maybe we could be wrong and CM is the fall guy but the criminal too handled by THEM.
Who is THEM?
Why would Murray want to kill MJ? He was supposed to make half a mil/month or whatever. That's why he wasn't charged with murder. There's no motive for Murray to want MJ dead.
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@susieMJ, you posted while I was composing but right on.
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@bec,
It was a very general statement bec....i meant that Michael would very careful in these kind of legal stuff. that's it.
I'm sorry, I completely misread it then. My mistake and I agree with what you said here.
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No, MJ is not credible. I mentioned that earlier: "I love to tour" *cameras cut* "I hate to tour". He's not in the slightest bit credible. He's an actor. When's he acting? When's he telling the truth? No one besides himself, god, and possibly his mother know. So no, the man is anything but credible.
I'm not trying to be the smart ass here Bec but it was actually just the other way around: first he said he hated to tour, but was asked to be a bit more positive!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=E0SBTBcTDHo&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DE0SBTBcTDHo
[youtube]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E0SBTBcTDHo&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DE0SBTBcTDHo[/youtube]
I'm sorry, you seem to be getting upset, Do. I'm just trying to point out anomalies.
No I'm not upset, don't worry, I just want to consider all options, that's all. And I don't believe Michael was lying, certainly not on such important matters.
I don't dismiss it, I actually think it fits in perfectly. It's like Moonwalker's plot.
As far as the murder theory, there's a reason it's never received major support. Why in the world would any murderer bother with orchestrating a fake hoax for years after the fact in order to cover up their crime? It's an absurd theory.
Not to mention the murder theory requires the entire Jackson Family to stand idly by and even participate in the murder's fake hoax, which really suggests that the Jacksons are all a bunch of psychopaths with no conscience and no sense of loss in MJ's death. This is also absurd. Sure maybe one or two psychopaths could be in an extended family, it could happen, but all of them? Every last one, down to the cousins and nephews? Even the 13-15 year old daughter? Come on. Now that to me is someone's imagination getting carried away with them.
We've already introduced powerful evidence that MJ's estate has profited the most from MJ's death and that Sony is largely owned/controlled by MJ, so the murder theory really doesn't make any sense because we lack motive and a perpetrator.
Now, could it be possible that there isn't an intentional hoax after all? That we all created it in our own heads?
Why would Murray want to kill MJ? He was supposed to make half a mil/month or whatever. That's why he wasn't charged with murder. There's no motive for Murray to want MJ dead.
And what if he is going to be paid soooo much more by 'the clients'. I' m speculating ofcours.
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No, MJ is not credible. I mentioned that earlier: "I love to tour" *cameras cut* "I hate to tour". He's not in the slightest bit credible. He's an actor. When's he acting? When's he telling the truth? No one besides himself, god, and possibly his mother know. So no, the man is anything but credible.
Too right Bec. Of course he's an actor. He loves controversy and disguises! Didn't someone say that MJ himself probably started the Elephant Man rumors and hyperbolic chamber rumors? Aside from all the chimo stuff I bet MJ secretly loves being talked about in the press--because as we all know, even bad press is good press if it holds the public's curiosity. And nothing piques curiosity like a mysterious death...
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@Do, I don't think you're being a smartass. I have that department covered :icon_geek:
It doesn't matter which way he said it, the point is he is not credible and that video is one piece of evidence that illustrates why I say he is not credible. At least not credible via media; video and taped statements/interviews. He's not the slightest bit credible via these mediums aka what we know of him. We know nothing about MJ's real life and who he really is, except that he's an actor and a showman. So no, he's not credible and his statements should all be taken with a grain of salt because we never know when he is play acting on camera/recording. You call it lying, I call it acting. He does it all the time. You can't trust a thing he says.
I think you mean 'the bosses' instead of 'the clients' but regardless, who is THEY? Who had a motive to bump off MJ and who stood to profit from it? You can speculate but there's plausible theories and then there are implausible ones. The murder theory never got off the ground because it is incomplete and non-linear. The death hoax persists after 4 years because it is linear and complete. Did we make it all up? Maybe, but that doesn't mean we should make up any more.
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The mere fact that CM was so clumsy handling the alleged MJ overdose of Propofol, being hung on the cell phone with his girlfriend during 20 minutes, not being capable to practice CPR on him, etc..... could be just a pretext to seem innocent but the real intention was to leave Michael die, maybe we could be wrong and CM is the fall guy but the criminal too handled by THEM.
Who is THEM?
THEM= ILLuminati, TPTB, or whatever you wanna call it.
Why would Murray want to kill MJ? He was supposed to make half a mil/month or whatever. That's why he wasn't charged with murder. There's no motive for Murray to want MJ dead.
In case it were a real murder then CM would have been hired tot kill Michael and remain innocent by acting in a clumsy way.
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Ok, why would TPTB want MJ dead?
MJ had less then zero cultural influence in 2009. Outside of his own fan base, that is. So why would TPTB even care about him anymore? They successfully destroyed him in 2005, if you want to make that a linear theory, his threat had been completely neutralized by the 2003 allegations and further by the 2005 media condemnation, and I'm sure TPTB have other areas of interest more pressing to deal with then some washed up 80's singer with a ruined reputation. I'm not seeing how this theory makes any sense.
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Bec said....
Ok, why would TPTB want MJ dead?
Many reasons.
He refused to be a puppet.
His message in lifestyle and lyrically was not condusive to TPTB agenda.
Then there was the blatant in their face routine at the end of Black or White and it seemed the gloves were off from that point.
MJ called them out publicly with TDRCAU. They weren't happy.
Also all the time Michael spent on the phone with Diana. Their phones would have been tapped. What exactly did she tell him that made him such a threat that they had to try and destroy any credibility through the media lynching and public brain washing that ensued . The false allegations were set up to discredit him and divert all his attention to fighting for his life and drain his financial resources while the world were force fed every humiliating morsel via the media, one of the tentacles of TPTB .
When Michael , who being a black man had the audacity to buy the Beatles catalogue, I think that marked the timing of the beginning of this war.
edit....sorry. Posted before reading the rest of Bec's post......So I'll go with 'unfinished business'. Who knows what MJ might say when on stage with the O2 arena full of adoring fans hanging on his every word. He might just still have enough fight inside to want to even up the playing field again. Any one who sticks it to them through a vid like TDRCAU after the threat of the chandler saga is a fighter by nature and from the past they knew he wouldn't just lie down and take it. There is always the possibility while living that he may talk. I wonder if MJ made tapes of his convo's with Dianna?
After the "05 trial T-Mez told Michael to get out of the states and he did as we know. We heard very little from him right up till the time he arrived back and then it picked up where it left off pre exile, gaining momentum till death hoax day which rocked the planet like some nuclear blast and when everybody had recovered from the shell shock of grief and remorse, we find ourselves here 4 years later still. Now that's some power for a washed up entertainer who had zero cultural influence. No....I say he was still a threat and they knew it.
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@RK
But there are many clues that say 'This is it' Gigs were never meant to happen. The one instance is Dr Murray's licence for practice in UK. It takes approx. two months to get that licence and also one has to appear for some medical exam. I think this was paula-c's post in the Katherine v. AEG thread.
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@Thriller. yes true...but THEY didn't know that at the time. He came back to the states to set it into motion. Moving the pieces into play for the check mate.
Anyhow enough about my tangent on TPTB and back to why Sony couldn't have initiated the hoax.
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Bec said....
Ok, why would TPTB want MJ dead?
Many reasons.
He refused to be a puppet.
His message in lifestyle and lyrically was not condusive to TPTB agenda.
Then there was the blatant in their face routine at the end of Black or White and it seemed the gloves were off from that point.
MJ called them out publicly with TDRCAU. They weren't happy.
Also all the time Michael spent on the phone with Diana. Their phones would have been tapped. What exactly did she tell him that made him such a threat that they had to try and destroy any credibility through the media lynching and public brain washing that ensued . The false allegations were set up to discredit him and divert all his attention to fighting for his life and drain his financial resources while the world were force fed every humiliating morsel via the media, one of the tentacles of TPTB .
When Michael , who being a black man had the audacity to buy the Beatles catalogue, I think that marked the timing of the beginning of this war.
edit....sorry. Posted before reading the rest of Bec's post......So I'll go with 'unfinished business'. Who knows what MJ might say when on stage with the O2 arena full of adoring fans hanging on his every word. He might just still have enough fight inside to want to even up the playing field again. Any one who sticks it to them through a vid like TDRCAU after the threat of the chandler saga is a fighter by nature and from the past they knew he wouldn't just lie down and take it. There is always the possibility while living that he may talk. I wonder if MJ made tapes of his convo's with Dianna?
After the "05 trial T-Mez told Michael to get out of the states and he did as we know. We heard very little from him right up till the time he arrived back and then it picked up where it left off pre exile, gaining momentum till death hoax day which rocked the planet like some nuclear blast and when everybody had recovered from the shell shock of grief and remorse, we find ourselves here 4 years later still. Now that's some power for a washed up entertainer who had zero cultural influence. No....I say he was still a threat and they knew it.
You have hit the nail on the head RK.
Thanks for making my homework, lol, yes you are right with all the list you have just posted but I would add that TPTB/ILLuminati don't like good/humanitarian/philanthropist people and although Michael was hit with those chimo that was not enough for them, all they wanted was to annihilate Michael after he was found innocent from the last chimo in 2005 so for them Michael was the winner, I am sure Michael was in danger and had death threats and there was a conspiracy against him the same way Diana had and finally died because nobody believes that was just an accident but a very well planned conspiracy.
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Then why not get a whole army of kids accusing MJ of chi-mo. And why not child rape. Why stop with a fairly benign single accusation of simple molestation? They're TPTB, they can do anything. Including influence dozens of children and their parents to accuse MJ. Shit, why stop there, why not MK ultra all of them into believing that they really were raped, makes for more convincing testimony if your witness has been brain washed n programmed. Certainly more credible then one bad witness accuser who's testimony was full of holes n inconsistencies and can't tell a straight story.
One random video hits youtube and suddenly everyone rallies round a theory that was largely abandoned years ago due to lack of evidence.
Princess Diana died years ago. Why would they kill her off over night with a car crash and yet to kill MJ it requires decades and a super elaborate covert multi tiered operation to take him down. Instead of staging a car accident they have to frame him for child molestation. Which fails, so then 4 years later they have to send some doctor to gain his trust for months before giving him an overdose of anesthetic which is totally negligent btw, setting up the doctor to have to go to jail for 4 years, which they have to compensate him for enough so that he won't talk about it and blow their cover, even though they're TPTB and can do anything and have fingers in all government entities and can make anything legal that they want, yet for some reason they felt the need to placate MJ fans with a jail term for the guilty party even though it took 10 years to "get osama bin laden" who they framed for killing 3000 people. This makes no sense. And btw, TPTB are all powerful, they supposedly arranged the death of all sorts of powerful public figures over the years yet for some reason MJ escapes them time n time again. he must be a super hero. Or at least more powerful the TPTB and if that's the case, what would he be afraid of?
Every celebrity in Hollywood has stalkers and they all become known to the FBI sooner or later. MJ isn't special in that department or unusual. Stalkers aren't just rabid fans, they send death threats n etc, which is when they get the attention of the FBI. I believe there is an entire department that deals with celebrity stalkers. The 333 pages of FBI files had about 3 paragraphs on threats made against MJ. That's far from a big deal.
MJ doesn't need a stadium full of fans to make a statement. All he needs is a YouTube channel and he will be in contact with legions more fans then would ever have been able to see him perform at the O2. Instantly, with thousands of people. 10's of thousands. At a concert he would make a statement to a few thousand people, and then have to wait for the next show etc. That's not very efficient if you have important information that threatens TPTB. Besides, if he did have important info to share, what's he waiting for? Seriously? MJ has crucial info to our survival against TPTB and he's playing hoax games for 4 years? I don't think so.
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Agreed, there's always internet if one has to reveal. Michael could have used any one of the legitimate accounts and posted everything he wanted.
And if TBTP really wanted to kill MJ, they would have done that way before.
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Today's estimates of the worth of the Sony ATV catalog is between 2-4 billion dollars. I think the goal was to try and force MJ into a corner financially to make him sell it. Hence all the legal drama in his life. Just offing him like they did to others wouldn't get this result as the catalog would still remain in the hands of his heirs. They needed to syphon off his finances and leave him bled financially dry and against the ropes to try and force him to sell it.
There are records also of Diana voicing her fears about a plot to have her assasinated.
I've always held to the illuminati theory, and still do. Just haven't bothered to rehash it as we discussed it all very early in the hoax.
edit to add....I don't think the purpose of the hoax was to have us playing games for years here on line. Perhaps we were led astray a bit there. It's been an education. A wake up call. To be forwarned is to be prepared. The world as we now know it is about to change. Lets not be asleep while it happens under our noses. There is a new world order coming. If not sooner, then later. That is why I have believed in the BAM. We need the blast of an MJ BAM to grab the attention of those still sleeping to get them to see what many of us have seen because of this hoax journey. As much as I think that Michael needed to get away, this hoax has been pulled for all of us. TII said it was "For The Fans". I guess he really does love us more.
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Hi RK, if I read your posts correctly , you are saying Sony wanted MJ to sell his share of ATV catalogue?
But they had other options. Why should they help MJ in a death hoax [ I know this is still under discussion, and hence this thread. But we all know Sony got to be helping MJ]
You know how big people have a way to get what they want., :icon_e_confused:
btw, i do believe existence of TPTB, but im not sure of the other stuff relating to it.
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They're TPTB. They control everything. They have nothing to fear from MJ.
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Then why not get a whole army of kids accusing MJ of chi-mo. And why not child rape. Why stop with a fairly benign single accusation of simple molestation? They're TPTB, they can do anything. Including influence dozens of children and their parents to accuse MJ. Shit, why stop there, why not MK ultra all of them into believing that they really were raped, makes for more convincing testimony if your witness has been brain washed n programmed. Certainly more credible then one bad witness accuser who's testimony was full of holes n inconsistencies and can't tell a straight story.
One random video hits youtube and suddenly everyone rallies round a theory that was largely abandoned years ago due to lack of evidence.
Princess Diana died years ago. Why would they kill her off over night with a car crash and yet to kill MJ it requires decades and a super elaborate covert multi tiered operation to take him down. Instead of staging a car accident they have to frame him for child molestation. Which fails, so then 4 years later they have to send some doctor to gain his trust for months before giving him an overdose of anesthetic which is totally negligent btw, setting up the doctor to have to go to jail for 4 years, which they have to compensate him for enough so that he won't talk about it and blow their cover, even though they're TPTB and can do anything and have fingers in all government entities and can make anything legal that they want, yet for some reason they felt the need to placate MJ fans with a jail term for the guilty party even though it took 10 years to "get osama bin laden" who they framed for killing 3000 people. This makes no sense. And btw, TPTB are all powerful, they supposedly arranged the death of all sorts of powerful public figures over the years yet for some reason MJ escapes them time n time again. he must be a super hero. Or at least more powerful the TPTB and if that's the case, what would he be afraid of?
Every celebrity in Hollywood has stalkers and they all become known to the FBI sooner or later. MJ isn't special in that department or unusual. Stalkers aren't just rabid fans, they send death threats n etc, which is when they get the attention of the FBI. I believe there is an entire department that deals with celebrity stalkers. The 333 pages of FBI files had about 3 paragraphs on threats made against MJ. That's far from a big deal.
MJ doesn't need a stadium full of fans to make a statement. All he needs is a YouTube channel and he will be in contact with legions more fans then would ever have been able to see him perform at the O2. Instantly, with thousands of people. 10's of thousands. At a concert he would make a statement to a few thousand people, and then have to wait for the next show etc. That's not very efficient if you have important information that threatens TPTB. Besides, if he did have important info to share, what's he waiting for? Seriously? MJ has crucial info to our survival against TPTB and he's playing hoax games for 4 years? I don't think so.
and what are the concrete evidence that MJ is dead? will encourage them to think we still living?
we are here discussing, about MJ died, then what happened to all the research and were made discuciones here?
Anyone can give an opinion on the facts, but none of us can say without a doubt that MJ is dead.
In fact, most of us believe that MJ lives, we'll be wrong about some theories or assumptions, but this forum has been created with the idea of a hoax.
Bec, the debate that has arisen, this being answered, with everything that was until now, no one will give you concrete evidence of MJ dead or alive, you can discuss who participated in the hoax, if the powers that be, illuminati or whoever demons are, but I do not think concrete evidence.
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Then why not get a whole army of kids accusing MJ of chi-mo. And why not child rape. Why stop with a fairly benign single accusation of simple molestation?
Because rape leaves actual visible damage, child molestation is a 'who do you believe?' game adn they thought they could win this with some fucked up, money greedy idiots' testimonies.
TPTB have everything to fear of MJ in my opinion. I believe he played dumb for a long time but gathered more info all of us combined can take in. I bet he has lots of evidence of this shit going on. It is highly doubtful this is really Robert Conners, but what he is saying is true (although I don't believe 2Pac is actually dead and might bam before MJ if MJ doesn't hurry the fuck up). It is unimportant whether or not the video is staged, it is about the publicity it gets and the information it contains. We'll see what will be 'leaked' Monday, gonna be interesting.
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Ok good point. But then why not a whole army of kids accusing MJ of molestation. That's how every other high profile child molestation case goes. Multiple victims. Ends up being a slam dunk. In MJ's case there was a single accuser who was a bad witness. Makes no sense. If TPTB set up 2003 accusations to "get" MJ, they sure did a crappy half assed job.That doesn't make sense to me.
And again, if MJ knows something that's important to our survival against TPTB, why so silent for so long? He has a platform, always has since the invention of the internet. If he had something to say you would think he would have said it, long ago. Showmanship n theatrical timing have no place in public service messages that concern life n death.
Additionally, why not just kill him off and then MK ultra his heirs into selling the catalog? Be a lot easier and more efficient then this circus.
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Then why not get a whole army of kids accusing MJ of chi-mo. And why not child rape. Why stop with a fairly benign single accusation of simple molestation?
Because rape leaves actual visible damage, child molestation is a 'who do you believe?' game adn they thought they could win this with some fucked up, money greedy idiots' testimonies.
TPTB have everything to fear of MJ in my opinion. I believe he played dumb for a long time but gathered more info all of us combined can take in. I bet he has lots of evidence of this shit going on. It is highly doubtful this is really Robert Conners, but what he is saying is true (although I don't believe 2Pac is actually dead and might bam before MJ if MJ doesn't hurry the fuck up). It is unimportant whether or not the video is staged, it is about the publicity it gets and the information it contains. We'll see what will be 'leaked' Monday, gonna be interesting.
I do agree with you that TPTB are afraid about MJ's info gathered through years of investigation that's why I think TPTB wanted to remove MJ from the face of the earth, MJ was annoying to them the same way Diana was annoying to British Monarchy specially Queen Elizabeth (because she was the humanitarian, the beautiful, the good person and started a romance with a muslim) doesn't it sound familiar?? but Diana was not that clever and witty as MJ is---> lucky him.
Btw the rest of info will be leaked next Monday Sep 23rd, isn't it when AEG trial will finish and we will learn the final verdict??
Ps: isn't it suspicious that Diana's case has been reopened after 16 years?? 1+6=7
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Ok good point. But then why not a whole army of kids accusing MJ of molestation. That's how every other high profile child molestation case goes. Multiple victims. Ends up being a slam dunk. In MJ's case there was a single accuser who was a bad witness. Makes no sense. If TPTB set up 2003 accusations to "get" MJ, they sure did a crappy half assed job.That doesn't make sense to me.
And again, if MJ knows something that's important to our survival against TPTB, why so silent for so long? He has a platform, always has since the invention of the internet. If he had something to say you would think he would have said it, long ago. Showmanship n theatrical timing have no place in public service messages that concern life n death.
Additionally, why not just kill him off and then MK ultra his heirs into selling the catalog? Be a lot easier and more efficient then this circus.
Come on bec. You don't want me to launch off into the "God" factor now. Not the new Jesus.....Just a man, But a man with unique experiences and information to share for such a time as this. And still alive by the grace of God.
@thriller. No Sony were their pawns at the time of MJ's gripe with Motolla. I'm thinking more way up the elitist ladder.
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Ok good point. But then why not a whole army of kids accusing MJ of molestation. That's how every other high profile child molestation case goes. Multiple victims. Ends up being a slam dunk. In MJ's case there was a single accuser who was a bad witness. Makes no sense. If TPTB set up 2003 accusations to "get" MJ, they sure did a crappy half assed job.That doesn't make sense to me.
And again, if MJ knows something that's important to our survival against TPTB, why so silent for so long? He has a platform, always has since the invention of the internet. If he had something to say you would think he would have said it, long ago. Showmanship n theatrical timing have no place in public service messages that concern life n death.
Additionally, why not just kill him off and then MK ultra his heirs into selling the catalog? Be a lot easier and more efficient then this circus.
You can't just use any kid you want, it has to be a kid that knows MJ or at least has been at Neverland once or twice because otherwise you have no case at all. Those kids are not all under the control of TPTB, nor are their parents. TPTB might have influence, but it's not as easy as you say now.
He will have a bigger platform after he bams, a HUGE one.
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They're TPTB. They can do anything. Thousands of kids have gone through Neverland over the years. All it takes is one visit to be molested. They aren't very powerful PTB if they can only access one out of thousands of kids, in which case, what real threat are they to all of us?
Again, if he has important, damaging info against TPTB, why is he playing hoax games for four years? And why is he sitting idle for 4 years prior to "dying". Why has he never breathed a word of this alleged info that is such a threat to them? And if he is dutifully sitting idle and staying mum, how is he a threat at all? Looks like he's playing right along like a good soldier, they ought to be content with that behavior, and consider him still under programming, or at least not much of a threat. It doesn't make sense that TPTB consider him such a threat that he requires so many resources over decades devoted to eliminating him. What has he done that is threatening to their power structure? Spread a message of love? Plenty of artists do that. JB, Kaity Perry, Bruno Mars, Paul McCartney for decades, now Mackilmore, countless others. MJ is not unique in his message to love each other and respect the planet. So what is so threatening about MJ that requires such a long and elaborate campaign to so s l o w l y rub him out?
@RK, I thought of that while typing and I thought I'd let someone else bring it up if they chose. You win, lol. I think you'll probably agree that's too "out there" for a debate. In any case not a road we really want to go down, or at least haven't wanted to venture too far in the past.
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Why has he never breathed a word of this alleged info that is such a threat to them?
Timing is everything.
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Then the info must not be that important because in matters of survival, timing is of the essence.
And again if he's sitting idle and biding his time then by appearances he is no threat to TPTB's power structure so why would they bother with some elaborate scheme that takes years and vast resources to get rid of him.
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Then the info must not be that important because in matters of survival, timing is of the essence.
And again if he's sitting idle and biding his time then by appearances he is no threat to TPTB's power structure so why would they bother with some elaborate scheme that takes years and vast resources to get rid of him.
MJ is just badass and not easy to get rid off.
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Ok but again, what makes him such a threat to TPTB that they would go through such a long and expensive (and unsuccessful to date) campaign to remove him?
Besides that, he's still branded a child molester who got away by the vast majority of people so what threat is he really?
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Ok but again, what makes him such a threat to TPTB that they would go through such a long and expensive (and unsuccessful to date) campaign to remove him?
Besides that, he's still branded a child molester who got away by the vast majority of people so what threat is he really?
You just answered your own question.
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No, I don't think I did. He's very little threat since he's still branded a kid toucher so TPTB would waste an extraordinary amount of time n resources towards eliminating him? That makes no sense. This whole plot line never made any sense to me in 4 years and it still doesn't. I gave TS heaps of trouble needling at him on this topic and he never was able to provide any satisfactory answers. That usually means something is BS.
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Then why not get a whole army of kids accusing MJ of chi-mo. And why not child rape. Why stop with a fairly benign single accusation of simple molestation?
Because rape leaves actual visible damage, child molestation is a 'who do you believe?' game adn they thought they could win this with some fucked up, money greedy idiots' testimonies.
TPTB have everything to fear of MJ in my opinion. I believe he played dumb for a long time but gathered more info all of us combined can take in. I bet he has lots of evidence of this shit going on. It is highly doubtful this is really Robert Conners, but what he is saying is true (although I don't believe 2Pac is actually dead and might bam before MJ if MJ doesn't hurry the fuck up). It is unimportant whether or not the video is staged, it is about the publicity it gets and the information it contains. We'll see what will be 'leaked' Monday, gonna be interesting.
I do agree with you that TPTB are afraid about MJ's info gathered through years of investigation that's why I think TPTB wanted to remove MJ from the face of the earth, MJ was annoying to them the same way Diana was annoying to British Monarchy specially Queen Elizabeth (because she was the humanitarian, the beautiful, the good person and started a romance with a muslim) doesn't it sound familiar?? but Diana was not that clever and witty as MJ is---> lucky him.
Btw the rest of info will be leaked next Monday Sep 23rd, isn't it when AEG trial will finish and we will learn the final verdict??
Ps: isn't it suspicious that Diana's case has been reopened after 16 years?? 1+6=7
lol im sorry that made me laugh - you made it sound like The Queen is one of those old fashioned Monarchs who cries "off with her head!!" :LolLolLolLol:
I can honestly tell you as a British citizen, our monarchy is very unlikely to be sneakily ordering the assassination of one of their own lol...
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Bec said....
Ok, why would TPTB want MJ dead?
Many reasons.
He refused to be a puppet.
His message in lifestyle and lyrically was not condusive to TPTB agenda.
Then there was the blatant in their face routine at the end of Black or White and it seemed the gloves were off from that point.
MJ called them out publicly with TDRCAU. They weren't happy.
Also all the time Michael spent on the phone with Diana. Their phones would have been tapped. What exactly did she tell him that made him such a threat that they had to try and destroy any credibility through the media lynching and public brain washing that ensued . The false allegations were set up to discredit him and divert all his attention to fighting for his life and drain his financial resources while the world were force fed every humiliating morsel via the media, one of the tentacles of TPTB .
Interesting that you talk about child molestation allegations and the fact that she talked to him on the phone about who knows what :suspect: .Maybe, Diana told Mike,that she and Dodi were ready to expose a large pedophilia ring in England with ties to the royal family :icon_eek: . And that's why they were killed not because Dodi was a muslim.
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It doesn't make sense that TPTB consider him such a threat that he requires so many resources over decades devoted to eliminating him. What has he done that is threatening to their power structure? Spread a message of love? Plenty of artists do that. JB, Kaity Perry, Bruno Mars, Paul McCartney for decades, now Mackilmore, countless others. MJ is not unique in his message to love each other and respect the planet. So what is so threatening about MJ that requires such a long and elaborate campaign to so s l o w l y rub him out?
WHO could be a such a threat for the power structure of EVIL, that this evil corrupted him for years? Is it possible that Michael ('I'm not saying I'm Jesus, I'm not saying that') really was a gift from God (like LaToya said) or 'Michael knows who he is' (like Janet said).
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHZ3Lc_L-as
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHZ3Lc_L-as)
Can this be one of the proofs that MJ staged the death hoax?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHZ3Lc_L-as
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHZ3Lc_L-as)
Can this be one of the proofs that MJ staged the death hoax?
Thanks for posting the video. I'm sorry but this dude was rambling and incoherent throughout to the point of distraction. My advice to those who have yet to watch it: fast forward through the first two-thirds. His first couple of points are shoddy, you could explain them away with camera angles and topography, but DAT BUILDING. In his own words, That's some scary shit.
But if we assume that MJ is dead, does a staged funeral matter? If MJ were really dead, maybe enough money could have bought one afternoon's privacy, and they shot this video in addition to the actual funeral as a diversion.
But I know that's a weak theory... just thinking of some possibilities.
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But if we assume that MJ is dead, does a staged funeral matter? If MJ were really dead, maybe enough money could have bought one afternoon's privacy, and they shot this video in addition to the actual funeral as a diversion.
But I know that's a weak theory... just thinking of some possibilities.
Yup - a weak theory indeed LOL!! If MJ had died, I have no doubt the Jackson's could've had a private funeral if that's what they'd wanted (and it would've been a darn sight sooner than 2 months + IMO)- no need for the drama of a 'diversion' video - all that was needed was a post event announcement that he'd been buried in a private funeral.
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Yup or maybe had a funeral inside.
I never really believed the green screen theory. Considering camera angles n perspective, nothing is really very damning "evidence" of a stage set funeral, in my opinion. I could be wrong but I've watched it a thousand times and it still doesn't get me excited. Van video gets my heart rate up a lot more and I know logically that's no proof of anything.
But just the fact that the funeral was outside... (and after 77 days, with Liberian Girl pics everywhere, and dancers flashing hang 10 and etc etc weirdness) I mean, that's just asking for attention. Not to mention having TMZ there with a live feed. Green screen or no green screen, that burial was the reason the hoax lived on past September 2009. If it had been normal I think most of us would have moved on and our lives might be very different these 4 years later.
But anyway. I think these 8 pages later we have established that MJ=Sony=MJ so the only part of the original topic theory that is inaccurate is the MJ being dead part. Anyone disagree?
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I agree bec, the more we look into this Sony thing, the more I realize MJ got to be working in Collab with them.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHZ3Lc_L-as
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHZ3Lc_L-as)
Can this be one of the proofs that MJ staged the death hoax?
Thanks for posting the video. I'm sorry but this dude was rambling and incoherent throughout to the point of distraction. My advice to those who have yet to watch it: fast forward through the first two-thirds. His first couple of points are shoddy, you could explain them away with camera angles and topography, but DAT BUILDING. In his own words, That's some scary shit.
But if we assume that MJ is dead, does a staged funeral matter? If MJ were really dead, maybe enough money could have bought one afternoon's privacy, and they shot this video in addition to the actual funeral as a diversion.
But I know that's a weak theory... just thinking of some possibilities.
i have pictures that i posted at some time on here that prove this is correct. i think i still have them on my hard drive some place. he is right about the placement of the fork in the road its way down past where they were at.