Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators

MJDHI Archive => Archive MJDHI (READ ONLY) => Michael Jackson Death Hoax Theories => Topic started by: gwynned on May 01, 2013, 12:13:13 PM

Title: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: gwynned on May 01, 2013, 12:13:13 PM

gwynned:

Quote
Call me crazy but that side by side of Prince and MJ at the trial look eerily similar. 


I don't understand what you mean, can you explain please??

I recognize the following will probably get me permanently banned but here goes, since you asked.  I came to the realization about a week ago, with the help of a friend, that, in fact, Michael Jackson is a lie.  I mean no offense when I say that, but in my defense why is it that the LIE portion of believe is highlighted and that we recently found out on January 1st that Front was, indeed, a liar.  But what of it?  Isn't that the point?  That we give our power away so willingly to anyone who holds some kind of proprietary position?

What do I mean that Michael Jackson is a lie?  To get straight to the point,  I now believe that the character Michael Jackson has been played by a series of actors which may include Prince.  This would also explain why Prince is so connected to the hoax.  If I am to believe my eyes and not the lies, I would say Michael at trial looks a hell of a lot more like Prince than he does Michael from the original Jackson 5.  Is it Prince?  I can't be sure and don't know how to do photo comparisons, but it doesn't totally matter whether that guy at trial was Prince or another actor.  You see, after I recovered from the humiliating realization that I fell in love with and obsessed over a fictional character, I couldn't help but appreciate, yet again, the incomprehensible genius behind it.  That I could have followed this path for over 3 years and not seen something so obvious says it all.

One thing we have all recognized in this journey is how the media lies and manipulates, and it's greatest resource its stables of stars and personalities with its primary target the children.  Talk about false idols!  For years 'Michael' talked about saving the planet, but it mostly fell on deaf ears.  I think one of his messages is that we need to stop the idol worship because it serves merely as a pointless distraction which takes us away from the real work of change:  on ourselves and our world.  We've all been floating on the Titanic for a long time, reading the gossip columns about Kardashians bump while our extraordinary but fragile world struggles in treacherous waters.  Is that what Michael meant by 4 years?  Four years to turn this massive ship around and finally start taking seriously our responsibilities of caring for the Earth and all its children. 

You may well ask how I can talk about Michael after what I have said.   How do I explain my real feelings and experiences about what I now myself described as a lie or a grand charade?  A kind of madness?  An extraordinary susceptibility to suggestion?   All I know is some time ago, I thought I knew what was going on and the only progress I seem to have made is the recognition that I don't know anything at all.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: mattie on May 01, 2013, 01:32:18 PM
What do I mean that Michael Jackson is a lie?  To get straight to the point,  I now believe that the character Michael Jackson has been played by a series of actors which may include Prince.  This would also explain why Prince is so connected to the hoax.  If I am to believe my eyes and not the lies, I would say Michael at trial looks a hell of a lot more like Prince than he does Michael from the original Jackson 5.  Is it Prince?  I can't be sure and don't know how to do photo comparisons, but it doesn't totally matter whether that guy at trial was  jmPrince or another actor.  You see, after I recovered from the humiliating realization that I fell in love with and obsessed over a fictional character, I couldn't help but appreciate, yet again, the incomprehensible genius behind it.  That I could have followed this path for over 3 years and not seen something so obvious says it all.
quote gwynned

This makes sence..i had the same thougts.
It explaines al the different michaels i see/saw for me.
But i think there is also an original..maybe he disapeared years ago from the spotlight?
Because wen i look at video's of later years..i get more and more confused with al the diference.
I can't get this out of my mind..something is not right  :suspect:    jmho
(sorry for my Englisch)
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: bec on May 01, 2013, 01:44:24 PM
I have considered that theory as well.

MJ as a character rather then an actual person. Like James Bond or Bozo the clown; played by several different actors over the years.

I have not been able to substantiate that theory these past 3 years so it remains nothing more then a theory from where I sit.

It's possible, sure. But I am leaning more towards this story line being all part of the illusion. Just as "O2 guy"... 
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: gwynned on May 01, 2013, 02:04:52 PM
I have considered that theory as well.

MJ as a character rather then an actual person. Like James Bond or Bozo the clown; played by several different actors over the years.

I have not been able to substantiate that theory these past 3 years so it remains nothing more then a theory from where I sit.

It's possible, sure. But I am leaning more towards this story line being all part of the illusion. Just as "O2 guy"...

Exactly.  However, it may be that 'everything is opposite' as the song goes, so that while publicly Michael BEGAN the illusion with his death, in truth, he was ENDING an illusion which had been going on for some time.  As for the 02 guy, I really hope that's Jim Carey. 

As to a 'real' Michael Jackson.  Someone behind the scenes pulling the strings.  This plan is too well orchestrated and would necessitate, like every great movie, a great director.  Who that might be, I hesitate to guess, but I can certainly 'feel' his presence. 

BTW, I'm so happy not to have been laffed at or thrown off!  Thank you so much!
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: whatyourheartsays on May 01, 2013, 04:22:35 PM
Are YOU for real ?

So according to you, since how long is MJ supposed to "not exist" ?
From the moment he faked his fatherhood ? for the moment he decided to fake a child molesting trial ? or during all the years he was called a wacko for just living his life ?
Would one of you tell me when exactly this "impersonating" started and what for ?

Cause if we are to be "honest", you have to tell me WHY MJ pulled up a "great illusion" in which he fights with Sony, doesn't tour for 10 years, has more debts you could ever think of, is called pedophile and wacko by half the planet...

Tell me what was the plan. Cause obviously, it seems it was the worst idea in the known universe.

You have to open your eyes and stop trying to find the best explanation to anything MJ does or did, or will do. Things happen, and pretending "it's illusion" maybe makes you feel better with the image you wish to have of MJ, but doing this is creating an illusion in which you feel good.

Sometime life sucks and even for Michael Jackson.

Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: sweetsunsetwithMJ on May 01, 2013, 08:14:53 PM
Whatyourheartsays..thanks for bringing sanity back to the forum, sorry I would buy DWD theory, doubles playing in TII, O2 guy not being Michael but what you guys have said about MJ being only a character is the oddest thing I have ever heard in my life, sorry Gwynned, Bec, Mattie if I am sharing this forum with people that really think that way I'd better say goodbye, this is too much for me to hear this, I have heard so many inconsistencies about Michael but I won't allow anyone to cast doubt on his existence, Prince is shorter and has different body that's crazy, MJ is a person not a character he has been changing his face because he is obsessed to look young and good, he had a very difficult lifetime that's why he started this hoax to fight against his nightmares and he will win. It's well known that he has been using looks alike to avoid masses running behind him but I never look at his face when I see a pic of him to know if he is really him or not I just look at his body and as Marlon said: MJ's body language is UNIQUE you could recognise him with different faces just looking at his skeleton, bone structure, body shape, his legas speak for themselves, etc... and I assure you that the man in all those pics we have seen throughout his life it was HIM and nobody else than HIM, why do you insist on complicating things more than they already are??  Sorry guys but this is unacceptable.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: reveron1958 on May 01, 2013, 08:40:35 PM
^^^
 
What she said!

 :icon_lol:
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: bec on May 01, 2013, 11:34:29 PM
She's allowed to hypothesize outloud. Where are ya'lls manners? How about some tolerance for different thoughts/theories? Or is that concept deceased? Talking about leaving the forum over one person's thinking out loud is over the top. But feel free, our door is always open and swings both ways.

However this is all super off topic and I take responsibility for my part in it so if anyone wants to continue the discussion of MJ as a character, let's start a new thread, otherwise, live n let live.

Kumbaya girls, kumbaya.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: underthemoon on May 02, 2013, 03:08:37 AM
I remember someone said " Michael Jackson is a label".....weird or not ? I never heard this before about a person.  When i look at all the pics from the last 30 years....i rearly ask me who is this ? One person ? I can't believe !
It's since the pepsi accident i think.
A few days ago i heard " will you be there " in the radio in my car and i thought there is no typical afro american soul in that voice....it sounds rearly like a white mens voice.
Sorry, but i think that there is a white Michael Jackson since....i don't know...early 1990 I go one step forward...a english speaking white man...not american.
Rememeber Paris speach a the Memorial...for me as a german exactly to understand...more Oxford english....today she speaks american english and i am lost..... ;D

Will we ever hear the truth ? I don't think so ! But never stop believing !!! <3<3<3
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: mattie on May 02, 2013, 06:39:34 AM
I dont doubt or deny there is a real Michael..he is real because you can tel from the jackson 5 and beyond.
But than i start seeing diferend Michaels back and forth.
I cant lie for myself..i see what i see...Why and how?? I would like to know.

@ sweetsunsetwith MJ.
The reason i did not came forward with my toughts is that i have problems to expres myself in English..and getting the respons Gwynned is getting.
This theorie is not exepted by some members.
The same with the havy make up..wen you guestion that.
Members say Michael is always a natural beauty..with or without havy make up.
I dont think so..my opinion ofcourse.
For example..his wedding picture..i think the havy make up takes his natural beauty completely away sometimes .
Or is it not Michael and is that the reason for this havy make up.. :icon_rolleyes:i dont know..but it confuses me.
Same with the weird acting sometimes..and not only at the 02 Arena.
I dont want to  fight or argue..but respect each other.
But i understand Gwynned..and i have the same toughts.
 :smiley-vault-misc-150:
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: MaryK on May 02, 2013, 06:49:12 AM
I wouldn´t go so far as to say that "Michael Jackson" is only a character and a lie.

But I think that Michael created the persona "King of Pop" to protect his privacy, to take the pressure off the person Michael Jackson and to free up space for the man behind the persona.

And I also agree that maybe all the masks and makeup have been introduced deliberately to make it easier for a "double" to impersonate the King of Pop.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: mattie on May 02, 2013, 06:58:58 AM
I remember someone said " Michael Jackson is a label".....weird or not ? I never heard this before about a person.  When i look at all the pics from the last 30 years....i rearly ask me who is this ? One person ? I can't believe !
It's since the pepsi accident i think.
A few days ago i heard " will you be there " in the radio in my car and i thought there is no typical afro american soul in that voice....it sounds rearly like a white mens voice.
Sorry, but i think that there is a white Michael Jackson since....i don't know...early 1990 I go one step forward...a english speaking white man...not american.
Rememeber Paris speach a the Memorial...for me as a german exactly to understand...more Oxford english....today she speaks american english and i am lost..... ;D

Will we ever hear the truth ? I don't think so ! But never stop believing !!! <3<3<3

Right..PFFF  so happy i am not alone in this.  :icon_e_ugeek:
Thanks.
The 02 guy was that a white man? i wonder!
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: suspicious mind on May 02, 2013, 07:06:45 AM
I wouldn´t go so far as to say that "Michael Jackson" is only a character and a lie.

But I think that Michael created the persona "King of Pop" to protect his privacy, to take the pressure off the person Michael Jackson and to free up space for the man behind the persona.

And I also agree that maybe all the masks and makeup have been introduced deliberately to make it easier for a "double" to impersonate the King of Pop.

ummm humm sort of a slow steady process maybe.  a lie become the truth in a way perhaps.  :icon_neutral:
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: gwynned on May 02, 2013, 07:41:48 AM
Thanks MJonmind for starting this thread!  I really appreciate the support.  If nothing else it's an interesting diversion while we twiddle our fingers and wait for 'Michael' to return.

The idea was first presented to me that the original Michael disappeared after the Pepsi accident.  There's certainly something there because after that all the weird Michael stuff happened including the radical change in facial characteristics.  I happen to think that even that was not the original Michael.  What got me was a display of 5 Michaels on a Pearl Jr. documentary.  NONE of them looked like each other, but there is a trend toward more white characteristics and skin color.  That is, frankly, the odd thing.

Let's assume that Michael just wanted out of the limelight but the MJ label was too hot to just let go.  Why not sub in another black person with similar characteristics that wouldn't raise eyebrows.  And even stranger, why have we accepted him in all his forms?  Is 'he' in some sense a spokesperson for a larger project?  Is that why it's called the "Michael Project?'  People read symbols not words and the label Michael Jackson is known by billions.  What does Michael Jackson symbolize?  Could the Michael Jackson label be used to change the world.  Or rather, has the MJ name been used to manipulate public opinion about matters such as the environment, gay rights, treatment of children, political freedom.  We tend to view the term 'manipulate' as negative, but the fact is we are all being manipulated by the media on a daily basis.  What better way to counteract the negativity out there than to create a mysterious and invincible hero with immeasurable talent, a great and forgiving heart and an intense desire to bring LOVE back into the world.  Because we believe in him we make him more real and,  I know for myself, because I have believed in Michael for so long, I have become a better more loving person.  So is he real or a fiction?

Kenny infamously said, 'We are all extensions of Michael.'   :thjajaja121:  Michael said he was not Jesus but he wanted to live like Jesus.  Perhaps one of the points behind the black/white Michael is that 'Michael' lives through all of us and is not the exclusive domain of any one group.  Anyone can be Michael.  It is our time to shine.  He can't due it alone. 

I keep thinking of V and his comment that behind this mask is more than flesh and blood.  It's an idea and you can't kill an idea.  It's 'invincible.'  So if there is no ONE Michael Jackson, you really can't kill him off, now can you? 
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: curls on May 02, 2013, 08:11:36 AM
So which Michael are you waiting for? I'm waiting for the one who masterminded all this mystery and intrigue, the one who left hints and whispers of what was to come in many awesome songs, films and interviews, the one whose voice and dance have me spellbound, the one whose wisdom, huge heart and strength of spirit have enabled him to fight hate with love, the one who can have me attached to a computer screen for all these years!  I think that's one man, but I'm not knocking anyone who thinks otherwise. That shows what a successful job he did, and is continuing to do! JMO of course.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: sweetsunsetwithMJ on May 02, 2013, 08:21:21 AM
I wouldn´t go so far as to say that "Michael Jackson" is only a character and a lie.

But I think that Michael created the persona "King of Pop" to protect his privacy, to take the pressure off the person Michael Jackson and to free up space for the man behind the persona.

And I also agree that maybe all the masks and makeup have been introduced deliberately to make it easier for a "double" to impersonate the King of Pop.

First of all I am sorry if I offended someone with my words, that was not my intention, I really thought this place was a MJ's temple where people really respected him but all of a sudden I read the theory that someone was doubting even his existence, understand that I was really surprised and full of rage but I have to respect it and carry on.

Thanks Mary for explaining it the way I wasn't able to explain it yesterday, I think the real Michael Jackson the only one "the one" which was born from KJ's womb was carrying a very heavy backpack full of yellow tabloids gossips, false allegations, criticism about his sexuality etc... and he organised this hoax to get rid of "KOP" character just to show us the real man, the father, the son, the brother, the humanitarian, the lover and leave behind the eccentric, drug addict, child abuser, gay, extravagant... the black guy in the Pepsi Commercial was the same as the one of Thriller era, Bad era, Dangerous era, History era and so on....the difference was that his skin was getting clearer as years passed by the same as his hair which changed, hairstyles, longer hair  - shorter hair, wigs, use of surgical masks to make it easier to looks alike who were working for him, that's all... how can a person be on a MJ's forum if MJ doesn't exist?? Maybe I am a very simple minded.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: iLoveyoumore on May 02, 2013, 08:29:52 AM
I wouldn´t go so far as to say that "Michael Jackson" is only a character and a lie.

But I think that Michael created the persona "King of Pop" to protect his privacy, to take the pressure off the person Michael Jackson and to free up space for the man behind the persona

And I also agree that maybe all the masks and makeup have been introduced deliberately to make it easier for a "double" to impersonate the King of Pop.

I agree. I believe there is only ONE Michael Jackson but "King of Pop" is a character who can be played by many people.

Same person from Thriller to TII. He has changed, yes, because of his vitiligo and surgeries. BUT HE IS NOT A LIE.
(http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n488/Mizugetsu94/01a_zpsf7033d3b.png) (http://s1136.photobucket.com/user/Mizugetsu94/media/01a_zpsf7033d3b.png.html)
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: gwynned on May 02, 2013, 08:40:53 AM
I wouldn´t go so far as to say that "Michael Jackson" is only a character and a lie.

But I think that Michael created the persona "King of Pop" to protect his privacy, to take the pressure off the person Michael Jackson and to free up space for the man behind the persona

And I also agree that maybe all the masks and makeup have been introduced deliberately to make it easier for a "double" to impersonate the King of Pop.

Well said.  So if we follow that logic, having finally killed off the fictional KOP, the REAL Michael Jackson - and again, I'm not sure any of us outsiders would recognize him - can finally reappear.  I'm still not convinced, however, that the real Michael Jackson - the kid who performed with the J5 - is the MAN behind this all.  And before everyone jumps all over me, I can only suggest that there is a great mystery here and I'm not prepared to take a position either way as to who or who is not the man behind the mask.

I agree. I believe there is only ONE Michael Jackson but "King of Pop" is a character who can be played by many people.

Same person from Thriller to TII. He has changed, yes, because of his vitiligo and surgeries. BUT HE IS NOT A LIE.
(http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n488/Mizugetsu94/01a_zpsf7033d3b.png) (http://s1136.photobucket.com/user/Mizugetsu94/media/01a_zpsf7033d3b.png.html)
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: iLoveyoumore on May 02, 2013, 08:59:31 AM
I'm still not convinced, however, that the real Michael Jackson - the kid who performed with the J5 - is the MAN behind this all.

I see same person from J5 to older MJ. Eyes don't lie, even when he's wearing make-up and after surgeries. But that's just my point of view.

(http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n488/Mizugetsu94/01b_zpsebf953db.jpg) (http://s1136.photobucket.com/user/Mizugetsu94/media/01b_zpsebf953db.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: gwynned on May 02, 2013, 09:16:52 AM
I'm still not convinced, however, that the real Michael Jackson - the kid who performed with the J5 - is the MAN behind this all.

I see same person from J5 to older MJ. Eyes don't lie, even when he's wearing make-up and after surgeries. But that's just my point of view.

(http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n488/Mizugetsu94/01b_zpsebf953db.jpg) (http://s1136.photobucket.com/user/Mizugetsu94/media/01b_zpsebf953db.jpg.html)

I can't argue with you there and, frankly I'm stumped or hesitant to suggest that Michael's changes are the result of some process that can't be explained simply by plastic surgery.  That said, could it be that the Michaels we see with sunglasses are the actors and the ones where we have a good direct look at his eyes, the 'real' Michael. And could it be all the fakes and weirdnesses are red herrings to camoflauge and make believable a far more incredible transformation. 

Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: Andrea on May 02, 2013, 09:39:37 AM

I think there is only one Michael.  I have no doubt that decoys have been used over the years - the decoy goes out the front door while Michael slips out the back - but those instances would be brief.  I tend to agree with what curls said and what MaryK said about Michael's King of Pop persona vs private life.  IF a double was ever used in, for instance, the TII movie, then I think it was done to confuse the audience and to create uncertainty.  I think Michael prefers to keep people guessing and unsure.  Having an air of mystery works in his favour.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: sweetsunsetwithMJ on May 02, 2013, 10:05:34 AM
gwynned:
Quote
I can't argue with you there and, frankly I'm stumped or hesitant to suggest that Michael's changes are the result of some process that can't be explained simply by plastic surgery.  That said, could it be that the Michaels we see with sunglasses are the actors and the ones where we have a good direct look at his eyes, the 'real' Michael. And could it be all the fakes and weirdnesses are red herrings to camoflauge and make believable a far more incredible transformation. 

The man with sunglasses is Michael too, he is shy and likes to wear them however as I said there are many looks alike swarming over there and confusing people, remember the one that approaches at the Sony speech (1:39) where Michael said Mottola was an evil man, he was exactly almost the same as if he were his twin but you know..... different, I am able to see "ALWAYS" those differences, and another thing is if you listen carefully to his voice you'll notice he does have a black man voice but softer, Jermaine also has a soft voice and nobody is questioning if he is a black man, look at Latoya does she look like a black woman?? is she the same woman as when she was younger?? ask yourself, even Katherine did use plastic surgery look at her nose before and now, just saying.

BTW in case you hadn't noticed, he is wearing a bulletproof vest in that speech, poor Michael, I love you!!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mx0Un9K5dKQ[/youtube]
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: bec on May 02, 2013, 10:49:59 AM
I think there is only one Michael.  I have no doubt that decoys have been used over the years - the decoy goes out the front door while Michael slips out the back - but those instances would be brief.  I tend to agree with what curls said and what MaryK said about Michael's King of Pop persona vs private life.  IF a double was ever used in, for instance, the TII movie, then I think it was done to confuse the audience and to create uncertainty.  I think Michael prefers to keep people guessing and unsure.  Having an air of mystery works in his favour.

I agree with this. Even though the multiple MJs theory is difficult to dismiss casually, I lean towards it being part of the illusion created in order to gain some sense of privacy whilst simultaneously boosting his public mystic. After the teeth study I did in 2009 in an attempt to prove O2 guy wasn't MJ, I was forced to realize that they are all the same guy. Well, at least all the pics I could find of him smiling over a 30 year span of time.

So if there is/was a second MJ (or third or fourth or multiples) then he never allowed himself to smile and be caught on camera doing so. And I find that difficult to believe. I'm telling you I poured over MJ pics during this research in 09. Examined everything I could get my hands on.

I will say, that whole Bashir interview with seemingly 2 (or 3!) different MJs throws me for a loop. Because there's clearly a handsome guy and an awkward one. However, I will say some days I am having a bad face day and some days a good one, for whatever reason, and I know there's only one of me.

But make no mistake, someone is clearly pushing the "doubles" theory on us. It's being suggested, heavily. I'm not sure if we should fall for it or not.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: bec on May 02, 2013, 10:52:14 AM
Ps Gwynned, you're not going to get banned for sharing your respectful opinion. That's silly. 
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: MJLoyalFan on May 02, 2013, 10:56:32 AM
gwynned:
Quote
I can't argue with you there and, frankly I'm stumped or hesitant to suggest that Michael's changes are the result of some process that can't be explained simply by plastic surgery.  That said, could it be that the Michaels we see with sunglasses are the actors and the ones where we have a good direct look at his eyes, the 'real' Michael. And could it be all the fakes and weirdnesses are red herrings to camoflauge and make believable a far more incredible transformation. 

The man with sunglasses is Michael too, he is shy and likes to wear them however as I said there are many looks alike swarming over there and confusing people, remember the one that approaches at the Sony speech (1:39) where Michael said Mottola was an evil man, he was exactly almost the same as if he were his twin but you know..... different, I am able to see "ALWAYS" those differences, and another thing is if you listen carefully to his voice you'll notice he does have a black man voice but softer, Jermaine also has a soft voice and nobody is questioning if he is a black man, look at Latoya does she look like a black woman?? is she the same woman as when she was younger?? ask yourself, even Katherine did use plastic surgery look at her nose before and now, just saying.

BTW in case you hadn't noticed, he is wearing a bulletproof vest in that speech, poor Michael, I love you!!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mx0Un9K5dKQ[/youtube]

What a really interesting debate! It's good to be open and forward with a line of thought Gwynned. I for one had a moment where I was confused who the real Michael Jackson was, what with the twin theory and doubles coming out of the woodwork after the 25th June, but the one thing none of them can replicate is the true essence of Michael. When you know, you know, so to speak. The only person close to replicating him in his temporary absence to my mind is sofurgofromashes, now he does have me confused at times!

Also, I really don't think we would be seeing Katherine fighting in a court of law for a person other than her own flesh and blood, there is just to much at stake.

As for the brand MJ, yes I have no doubt that many jumped on the bandwagon and we know very little of how we as fans were manipulated over the years.

Love the comparative photo's and also just to say, I get where you are coming from Sweetsunset (hug), as I have spent a lifetime alongside Michael's efforts to heal the world and his messages of love and respect have always been parallel to my own, but to think about the fact that Michael was not Michael would make my head spin off it's shoulders!

With Love.

Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: Thriller4ever on May 02, 2013, 11:06:27 AM
I agree with SweetSunsetwithMJ, Andrea and Loveyoumore.

It is never easy to be Michael Jackson. Only Michael Jackson knows how it feels to carry out that label "Michael Jackson". My explanation to why he might have been known as a brand is that he is TOO famous. Michael has become the very definition of what "famous" is. People will either love MJ or hate him. But there's not a soul on this planet that can ignore him. Believe it or not, but even people who say they hate him somewhere have the Michaelism in them. It's like he is a part of the HIStory of universe!

Now having said that, this whole 'different Michael Jacksons' theory or 'No Michael Jackson' Theory is a part of illusion. It can either be a part of the hoax or just a privacy/security measure. It can facilitate the use of impersonators when Michael is not really willing to face a crowd. Why he looked different throughout the years can only be known to Michael. The accurate explanation lies in his heart. But if i'm allowed to say, it's a mixture of various reasons, from vitiligo to his wish to look in a certain way. And he has every right to do what he wants to do.

I firmly believe there is only one real Michael, the original, who is directing this hoax and the mastermind behind every creative piece. But it can also be true that there might be an impersonator, occasionally, when the 'supposed Michael' is wearing the black surgical mask.


Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: suspicious mind on May 02, 2013, 11:37:25 AM
this conversation makes me think of front's jesus / krishna . 
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: underthemoon on May 02, 2013, 12:43:19 PM
It's not easy for me to explain it in english...i try..
We can see much celebs who has taken surgery to look "better".....much of them are looking scary after taht and they all are surely going to the best surgery physicians in Hollywood.
When i look at Michael and think how much surgeries he must have to change from the beginning and he still look so natural....as he was born in that way...
This makes me think that we see a person who has only changed his nose and maybe the chin and the teeth.
I have made a pic from the History concert where he was absolut in front of the camera and i saw the teeth....not the same as O2 guy ! Absolutly not the same, but i have no idea how to put this pic in the forum....
Sorry....can you understand what i will say ?
I look for the truth, not for a special Michael...what will he say to us with this hoax ? That is importend ! The truth....what is going on in the world, in the business ?
I wish much  love in this world  :bearhug:

Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: whatyourheartsays on May 02, 2013, 01:05:13 PM
Michael Jackson IS a brand. He sold his name all life long. For music, for shows, for labelled products... He sold it, made it trend, made money with it, protected it, so "Michael Jackson" is a marketing product. Now you cannot say the man himself doesn't exist. This is exactly what destroyed his life. Being prisoner of this marketing image he had to keep up with.

But you also say that his private life was a fake, saying it was Prince standing at the trial.
So Michael Jackson talking about police brutality, and all he went through, is nothing to you but an illusion ? AGAIN, if it was faked, staged, what was the point of destroying it this way ?

I'm sorry but thanks to people building theories like you do, Michael Jackson is obviously an alien from Mars

I won't apologize for standing against this. That's MY opinion.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: bec on May 02, 2013, 01:51:44 PM
Nothing wrong with that but consider this:

Why did MJ go on national TV and say he shared his bed with children? You mean to tell me he thought that was a good idea? Might clear his name somehow? Resurrect his ailing image? His PR people and manager(s) were totally ok with that? No problem, go ahead n run with it, it's a great idea to hold some kid's hand and talk about how loving it is to share your bed, in front of Bashir for a national TV interview. Carry on with your bad self MJ. Then later--oops! Guess that wasn't such a good plan, how unfortunate. But who would have guessed??Right.

That's sort of like saying MJ was drunk at the O2 announcement. Same oops! moment that no one thought to prevent. I don't buy it.There's lots more to MJ then meets the eye. I think we can all agree on that.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: whatyourheartsays on May 02, 2013, 01:59:49 PM
let's just not forget about one MAIN thing : being HUMAN.
It includes "act upon FEELINGS"
This cannot be part of any theory or plan, but it is part of LIFE.

Anytime Mj did something wrong because his feelings at that moment told him to, there comes a great theory to explain it was "part of the plan"

Damn, no mistakes for MJ. He's such a great master...

I just think he's a man with feelings and this doesn't always leads you to were you wanted to go.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: ShyBleuEyes on May 02, 2013, 03:23:20 PM
Bec, maybe you knew this already , but i wanted to add this interview with Aprodite Jones where she explains how Michael was falling into bashir's trap.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4uLCv26vx8
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: Mike on May 02, 2013, 03:33:33 PM
I think this is an interesting theory. I think there are alot of things we dont know about. There is more to the whole different looks thing I think as well.
I also believe that not all but most of the time the MJ with the mask over his face is someone else. Who knows all we can do is be patient. But as for the whole MJ
is just an entity I dont believe that. I believe that the persona he created with the King Of Pop he wanted to be mysterious and always keep people guessing and wondering
about him. Hopefully we will know the truths to ALL of our questions about him and this hoax and family etc
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: curls on May 02, 2013, 04:05:31 PM
So, is MJ a human who shows his feelings at the drop of a hat at the most ill advised moments but at the same time is a fiercely protected 'brand', or 'character'?  The two don't go together in my eyes. Oftentimes, it seems to me, being 'part of the plan' is a more logical and common sense explanation for some of the stranger events in MJ's life. JMO, which of course may be way off, but in the absence of a personal knowledge of the man, logic and common sense is all I have to go on.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: Jos on May 02, 2013, 05:14:18 PM
I have read all of your comments and want to react myself.
But, since I didn't know where to start I numbered my comments :) to make it somewhat easier to read perhaps haha.


1) I like the concept you discribed Gwyned. Creating "something" with a huge image to change the world in some way.
But I cannot believe that Michael Jackson was "Michael Jackson"- an image. He is a person.
As someone said before, just look at the eyes and teeth.
You can change alot on a person, allmost anything in fact, exept the eyes. And I can't find one picture of him, without the "Original" MJ eyes.
Not on stage, on TV or any other public event he went to.

2) Re: masks; Since you all may know, I am suffering a panic disorder for some years now.
Because I didn't want to accept this the first years I suffered this disorder I fight against it.
That resulted in using masks. I had a "private" mask, and a "professional" mask.

I was a taxi driver for allmost 6 years. And the first years I did nightshifts in the weekends, driving mostly drunk people to their homes and from tuesday 'till thursday I drove criminals back and forwards to the trainstation and jail.  (Yes, Dutch Criminals can go to home if they want  :LolLolLolLol:) But that was under surveillance by a prisonguard. But still.
Because I couldn't be myself, scared as hell at some points, I had to use a "mask" to disquise this.

My point is, KOP was a mask. But MJ isn't. He is a human being, with feelings and on time to time stupid decisions :)
And the shy person the KOP was, is also a mask to me, looking to the sony "deal" for example. the prase "no more mister nice guy" come to mind...

3) as for bodydoubles. sure they would have been used, but only to escape the massive crowds.
In my opinion we have never seen a double on stage, or on TV, the O2 announcement, The Killer Thriller speech (Sony) or even TII.
Even when Joe said there was a double in TII, I didn't buy it. For me that was just to bring the doubt-factor into this hoax. We have to doubt and re-think alot here :)

4) When an artist becomes famous he is in fact a brand, his name is used to sell albums, concert tickets and merchandise. So MJ is also a brand, who will make money everyday.

5) Allthough I respect this theory, I can see this theory as painful for Michael if he is reading this.
Reading he isn't real, wouldn't be the nicest feeling i think. But, I think everyone has the right to expres themselves :) so is gwyned. There is No need to be offended, when you don't like somenone elses thought's, then don't read it :)

6) finally, someone wrote something about MJ being broke. Sorry I don't buy that.
The Sony catalogue was estimated to earn 800 milion dollars a year. That man must have had a HUGE whole in his hand to throw all that money away...
That's over 2 milion a day..



I'm sorry my post isn't that easy to read :( I hope the numbers helped a bit ;)  :smiley-vault-misc-150:

Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: MaryK on May 02, 2013, 06:05:01 PM
I forgot to add that I still believe that there are 2 Michaels.
Not necessarily a twin brother but maybe (most likely) kin.
The rest of the Michaels that some of us sometimes wonder about, those are doubles I think.
And I don´t agree Jos. I think that we have seen "the other" Michael on stage and during public appearances, maybe also doubles sometimes.
So 2 Michaels (person) and 1 King of Pop (persona)...is it getting complicated yet?  :icon_lol:
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: sweetsunsetwithMJ on May 02, 2013, 06:29:28 PM
let's just not forget about one MAIN thing : being HUMAN.
It includes "act upon FEELINGS"
This cannot be part of any theory or plan, but it is part of LIFE.

Anytime Mj did something wrong because his feelings at that moment told him to, there comes a great theory to explain it was "part of the plan"

Damn, no mistakes for MJ. He's such a great master...

I just think he's a man with feelings and this doesn't always leads you to were you wanted to go.

Exactly, before I joined this forum Michael Jackson was a genius to me yes a genius in music and dance however I always thought that he was a little disaster in his private life and I always thought he was only a human with his strengths and weaknesses, after being reading here for 2 years I have come to regard him as a superman and IDK if that is good or not because if he fails with this hoax the myth will drop that's why I chose to keep on thinking he is just a lovely human being, an angel, an humanitarian, the most wonderful person in the world and I don't wanna consider him a hero just the loving person he's always been, that should be enough for me.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: sweetsunsetwithMJ on May 02, 2013, 06:48:46 PM
Jos:
Quote
5) Allthough I respect this theory, I can see this theory as painful for Michael if he is reading this.
Reading he isn't real, wouldn't be the nicest feeling i think. But, I think everyone has the right to expres themselves  so is gwyned. There is No need to be offended, when you don't like somenone elses thought's, then don't read it

You are so right I was referring to what you are saying when I said that "the no MJ existence" was unacceptable, if MJ doesn't exist who needs to clear his name with this hoax?!?!?!?!? a product?? a name?? science fiction??
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: bec on May 03, 2013, 12:20:57 AM
Bec, maybe you knew this already , but i wanted to add this interview with Aprodite Jones where she explains how Michael was falling into bashir's trap.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4uLCv26vx8

Yes I did see that, but I respectfully disagree with Aphrodite. I do not believe that MJ was fooled by Bashir. I think it was the other way around. And no, not because I think MJ is a superhero, but rather because what I see throughout the interview. I see MJ as very methodical and very cunning. I think he did it on purpose. Playing the victim was an act I believe MJ played when it suited his agenda.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: Thriller4ever on May 03, 2013, 01:11:25 AM
But there might be some moments in his life where he would have been kind of vulnerable. See, the whole point, we've never really been there to see what was actually going on in Michael's life. All that we discuss on this forum is based on logic and the others are just assumptions based on what we've read from the internet.

So, as curls said, it is quite contradictory that on one hand Michael is capable of doing this hoax and on other he is an emotional mess. That sure doesn't make sense. But we still don't know the truth right.

So all we can do is keep doing what we've been, based on what we've seen and read and concluding from it. And being as realistic as possible, there's only one MJ who has created the illusion of different MJs.
We can never say anything definite about MJ's life or this hoax. we will only know when everything ends.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: MJonmind on May 03, 2013, 02:10:17 AM
If we believe SOTT is MJ, he's talking in 2002, likely while the Bashir visit was going on, and he sounds nothing like a gullible victim, but as cunning and calculating in everything he did. MJ may have told Jones, the hand-holding was Bashir's idea, but the repititious detail about sharing beds (with MJ on the floor) showed that MJ may have been playing up the victim for bigger plans. It was not only holding the boy’s hand, but what about the crazy shopping frenzy with Bashir spending millions of dollars on ornamental art, also showing him he had bought Tut’s sarcophagus and didn’t ever plan on dying or being buried. Then there’s the racing cars with numbers 21 and 33—MJ driving, saying, "I'm going to whip your head!" Perhaps he's doing that now!!

One MJ, with an deliberate strong illusion of 2 or more.

Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: bec on May 03, 2013, 02:39:27 AM
MJ put the pause in for editing. He made it ideal for the media to manipulate the soundbite. "Of course [the children] slept in my bed.................... I slept on the floor." (not direct quote--I don't have the video at hand, but the pause is exactly there. It's a long pause too.) Perfect for some snakey editor to cut off the last part and make it so that everyone was left with the thought, "Of course the children slept in my bed..." 'Tonight, at 7:00 Michael Jackson admits to sharing his bed with children', etc.

Just like we hear carefully crafted lines from the Jackson Family talking about MJ "passing" and "no longer with us" and drug use "he denied he had a problem" (maybe cuz he didn't),  MJ very carefully used the word "share" your bed, which strongly suggests improper activity yet means something quite different.

Not to mention, I cannot believe that MJ, who is reported to have his whole house under surveillance by cctv, held sleepovers with minor children after the 1993 extortion without the room on camera and being taped the whole time. I do not believe the Arviso's got the best of MJ. I do not believe he allowed himself to be set up like that by the likes of those people. If anything I believe they were used for a purpose.

Maybe I'm a dreamer but I don't think MJ is the helpless, unfortunate victim he is sometimes portrayed as.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on May 03, 2013, 02:51:16 AM
Bec, maybe you knew this already , but i wanted to add this interview with Aprodite Jones where she explains how Michael was falling into bashir's trap.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4uLCv26vx8

Yes I did see that, but I respectfully disagree with Aphrodite. I do not believe that MJ was fooled by Bashir. I think it was the other way around. And no, not because I think MJ is a superhero, but rather because what I see throughout the interview. I see MJ as very methodical and very cunning. I think he did it on purpose. Playing the victim was an act I believe MJ played when it suited his agenda.


Agree with you bec 100% re bashit and abt kids in bed comment. He is completely baiting the world!

In fact I believe all the quirkery for the past 25 yrs to be deliberate and intentional in planning of todays hoax era. I don't believe in 'Poor little Michael, ppl pick on him and judge him for being different' and 'he is different because of his mental health, body dismorphia, daddy issues' ... I actually believe the whole lot to be pointed and planned. The by product of sympathy is planned too!

The only thing I feel sorry for MJ for is the Chi Mo allegations, the rest, I believe to be good and deliberate entertainment, (even the negative stuff) perhaps for reasons that some yet don't understand.

This AEG trial is going to regurgitate a lifetime of 'crazy'. People call MJ crazy, however he is in control at all times and def not a victim. We (well not hoaxers, but gen public) are the victim of his charade. And its all coming out in the hoax... He completely created a character. Why? Who knows?! A lesson not to judge? Be careful who you fall in love with? Perhaps a demonstration that call someone MJ dress him up like me and watch the world follow or judge this fictional character and be so passionate about it and all the while be fooled big time at the same time.. (talking abt a double scenario here)

Not a victim! Also (not always, but over time) I have come to believe almost everytime MJ looks like a weirdo, its on purpose and with hoax agenda in mind. And I believe at least some of those times, its not even MJ its a double.

I don't believe in two MJs as in two at birth or a twin sharing the one identity (although I believe some might be baited by MJ believe this)... The picture below more sums up my (current) belief in MJ

(http://media-cache-ec4.pinterest.com/192x/c3/c0/63/c3c0630f1a43a58c0d16be6aea785655.jpg)

With MJ as the puppetmaster, the world falling in love or in contrast judging and crucifying a character who they believe to be real. Then masterfully has the masses angry or sad for him, (depending on which side of the fence your'e on) when its all just a big fat charade.

I believe MJ to sometimes be playing the role of the charade and at other times the double to be doing so. Whichever one is doing the acting at the time, I believe it's all for the same agenda. (Hopefully an agenda which will be revealed.)

I don't believe that someone who is meek, picked on, highly emotional, duped by ppl close to him, ripped off by handlers, pushed around by execs ALSO has the capacity to acquire and pull off the best business deals, catalogues, biggest investments (both in out of the entertainment business) in the world and can have wealth of monolithic portions! Sorry someone pushed around and meek couldn't be the business man he is.

He knows what he is doing. He knows what he is doing very well. A master at it. Deliberate freak!

It's precicely why he is prepared to have his family in the firing line of so many ppl during this AEG trial. (have you been reading the reader comments underneath the AEG report articles?? The Jackson family are taking a beating from fans and non fans. The comments are brutal!) It's all part of the plan / illusion. Its why he allows Paris to appear to be exploited. Its why he allows Janet to look like a B in the media. It's why he allows Mrs Jackson to look like an eldery woman pushed around by her kids. Its why he allows them too look greedy and money hungry. It's because it's all part of the act and its a pointed plan.

Everytime I doubt myself and start to get sucked in and begin to say "Poor Michael" I think of this one line:

"The Autobiography of PT Barnum is the Bible to Michaels LIFE" Michael handed me the book and said "Study it"

Are we forgetting that PT Barnum was a FREAK SHOW ILLUSIONIST....

Quoting this article that I adore, even though written from deader perspective...


American popular culture was born at the freak show.  It was P.T. Barnum who figured out that by displaying freaks for fun and profit, and then circulating images and stories of the freaks thoughout the country and even the world, fortunes could be made.

And who were the freaks?  They were, as freak show scholar Robert Bogdan pointed out, performances, acts, lies, and fantasies.  The freaks were any one of us.  Are you tall?  Really tall?  You could be a giant.  Are you a woman with facial hair?  Stop plucking and you could be the bearded lady.


By making exhibits half human, half something else, Barnum could engage his audience’s sense of wonder and awe and even, sometimes, outrage over the obviousness of his humbug.  The hybridity of these bodies, a hybridity that were lessons from God before Barnum, made onlookers feel both fully human and left them wanting another look.

No one understood the genius of P.T. Barnum, the absolute centrality of the freak show to American popular culture like Michael Jackson, who died tonight at the age of 50. - Michael Jackson, Pop Icon, Is Dead at 50 – NYTimes.com.

When Jackson grew up, he turned his back on the religion he’d been raised in (Jehovah Witness) and handed his manager P.T. Barnum’s autobiography.  Supposedly Jackson said of the book “this is my bible now.”

Jackson spent years making himself hybrid.  Was he black or white, male or female, straight or gay, adult or child?  When asked to define himself, he refused and became even more famous and more beloved.

But Jackson made one fatal, perhaps even postmodern, mistake.  Unlike his god, P.T. Barnum, Jackson put himself , not others, on display.  He invited us to look, to gawk, at his hybridity.  While at first Jackson could play with the figure of the freak, like when he pretended to buy the bones of the Elephant Man, by mid career Jackson was no longer able to stop us from defining him.  Child molester.  Innocent victim.  Musical genius.  Nutcase.

But what Jackson really was was a freak.  And that’s why we loved him.



(Obviously a perspective from a deader - but you get my point in quoting it)

http://trueslant.com/laurieessig/2009/06/26/michael-jackson-was-a-freak-and-thats-why-we-loved-him/

Sorry for rambling... But yeah, I'm obviously passionate abt this subject. It's why I love MJ. As a kid and teen through my 20's, I got to have KOP MJ for music / dance / entertainment purposes. Now as I get older, I get to know this MJ. A gift that keeps on giving. SO many layers, its like a neverending "Pass the parcel" which really shows his genius, considering that other artists I listened to as a kid I can't even remember, yet in my 30's the deliberate quirkery of this man still has me obsessed / interested / watching / tuned in 30 yrs later! Strategy much?

Oh so tactical! So very very tactical...


 :smiley_abuv: to u MJ! Lovable freak!
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on May 03, 2013, 03:10:26 AM

Maybe I'm a dreamer but I don't think MJ is the helpless, unfortunate victim he is sometimes portrayed as.

Not a dreamer! You're just brave enough to call it how you see it. I think it takes courage to see MJ like that. It means part of what you love or believed back in the day, wasn't real. I think we have choices in what to believe. Watch the fiction or recognise it's fiction.



Anyways, to others who differ, my comments are jmo, I respect and get that others see the "MJ as a character" thing differently and respect their opinion  :smiley_abuv:
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: MJonmind on May 03, 2013, 03:28:10 AM
Aussie
Quote
We (well not hoaxers, but gen public) are the victim of his charade.

Are you sure about that? Lol

Loved what you wrote just now!

Back to the Bashir interview, MJ is IMO masterfully displaying about 3 or 4 MJ's in looks, personality, mood, hair style, shirt color, etc., but I believe them all to be him.  Bashir can't get over that he must have done way more surgeries to change his looks.  Surely Aphradite Jones wouldn't say  Bashir was behind that too.  So in this sense I would agree that MJ is playing multiple 'characters' of himself.  Remember MJ said his favorite superhero was Morph, because he could be all things, when people least expect it.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on May 03, 2013, 03:33:01 AM
Aussie
Quote
We (well not hoaxers, but gen public) are the victim of his charade.

Are you sure about that? Lol

Loved what you wrote just now!



Well I wanted to really write was:

We (well not hoaxers (or at least not all hoaxers) but gen public) are the victim of his charade


LOL, but there seemed far too many commas he he... Jokes aside, I was being careful not to create us and them amongst hoaxers... But in reality, even some hoaxers won't see MJ's charades and will believe the fiction.

So yeah.. thats what I mean't but against better judgement didn't say... I guess better judgement took a backseat in this post. lol

Love to all x
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: marumjj on May 03, 2013, 04:18:44 AM
amazing thoughts and definitions about Michael Jackson. I do not dare to classify their actions, it's just a man doing with his life what he can or what he wants. His life took public state, and we know that when this happens you criticize, destroy you, they love you or crucify you.
It is eccentric? and what is the problem? what would I do with so many millions? so would be likely.
There are millions of judges that even today say he is a pedophile, but there are many others that believed in the man and his message. If Michael Jackson is a character, a brand, a project or whatever it is, I do not know.
  Gwynned said made ​​her a better person, and many others as well (myself included), so for me, is enough, great job Michael.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: mattie on May 03, 2013, 05:02:45 AM
I don't believe that someone who is meek, picked on, highly emotional, duped by ppl close to him, ripped off by handlers, pushed around by execs ALSO has the capacity to acquire and pull off the best business deals, catalogues, investments etc (in and out of the entertainment business) in the world and can have wealth of monolithic portions!quote

This is exact the reason that i dont buy the weak Michael.
He as a genius must have known what would happen if you tel the world you sleep with children..or spend money like crazy..or feed your baby like a nervous wreck..that even i know..and i am far from a genius.
You would get the reaction what a freak.
So it must have be done for a reason..or just that reason.
I dont deny Michael as a person.I do think he is real..and has feelings ofcourse..but feelings and bad day's dont make him stupid?

And why would it hurt his feelings if he reads we question this?
Maybe the fame was to much(i can understand) and there is an other Michael who can take his share of the pressure.
The other Michael who is looking like his twin?(think about the mirror picture and the difference in it)
I think maybe the weird behavior and the havy make up was to hide the difference..to confuse.
Because the make up sometimes would make me  :icon_eek: go like this.
I can not see that michael on one hand was verry critical how Karen Faye was doing his hair in a video..and on the other hand let her put make up on that lookes terrible.
Than there are even more doubles and surcical masks to ad to the confusion..
I dont deny Michael..i see genius.
Because his live was a rollercoaster and i hope he found years ago a escape to make his live better..and to keep doing what he wants to do..music and performing..and be the illusionist he is.
Because he made the whole world wondering..and nobody realy knows who Michael Jackson is.

This is ofcourse my opinion..and i tried my best to expres what i am thinking..but it is not good English i know.
I hope you forgive me for that.
Matty

Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: sweetsunsetwithMJ on May 03, 2013, 07:52:31 AM
I'm happy with how this thread has finally been developed I agree with most of you, during Bashit's doc which I watched on TV I really thought that Michael was a little bit weird but in that very moment I knew that even being the way Michel wanted to portray us I would always support him and love him.
Definitely Michael is just one and the same however I do agree he was playing with us by using looks alike just for hoax purpose.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: gwynned on May 03, 2013, 10:09:14 AM
I am so happy with this thread.  Someone suggested Michael, the person, might be insulted by my suggestion, but I have to think that 'Michael' would be thrilled that after almost 4 years of study we are still confused.  Success.  Thanks.  We're still running in circles and can't guess the ending.  Hell, we're still debating the beginning!  I'm still not sure about that 02 guy!

And I would agree that Michael cannot be at the same time a hapless victim (much from his own folly) AND a genius pulling off the greatest hoax of all time.   He can't be a perfectionist and let slip that remark about letting kids in your bed. 

And I didn't really mean to say that Michael is a character and not a human with feelings.  I certainly feel a presence directing this, and it has changed my life.  The fact is, I truly know NOTHING about Michael's private life.  I can speculate all I want, but the only information I am being provided is that which HE wants to provide.  It's like basing a verdict exclusively on the evidence provided by one side, a daunting task given the genius of the smooth criminal involved! 

It's like we're all in a maze and someone comes along and promises a way out, a secret key, and we follow him to another dead end.  One guess as to why he would deliberately confuse us about his personal life, other than to protect him and his family, is that we are forced to look beyond the cult of personality, beyond the mask. 

This may seem irrelevant but bear with me.  Ram Das (notable in the 60s for his book Be Here Now) tells the story of meeting his guru Neem Karoli Bab.   As I recall, Ram Das was in India in search of a guru and meets this guy whom everyone says is a great guru and the first thing the guru asks is to give him his car.  Most people, including Ram Das at the time, assumed he was being manipulated by a greedy guru using his powers to take advantage of people.  But an enlightened being might have perhaps seen that Ram Das was too attached to material things and the remedy for his affliction was to remove one of those attachments. 

My point is this.  Great beings do crazy illogical things that don't immediately make sense to us mortals.  It's a way of throwing the insincere off the trail.  A way of forcing people to look beyond the illusion and their own self interest. 

Think of it this way.  If Michael had announced at the peak of his career "I want to create an Army of Love to change the world."  He would have had millions if not billions begging at the trough and 99.9% of them would only have signed up to get close to the throne, so to speak.  But what good is an Army of billions if they will abandon you at the first sign of gunfire?  Or, at the opportunity to follow another younger star?  How many really will be/are there through all his trials and tribulations?  Who is there to serve and who for mere self interest?

But it's more than that as well.  I said that I have changed as have others and that can only be intentional.  Michael the human is one man who inhabits a small place on the planet.  I will probably never meet Michael the human and it's for certain he could never have a personal  relationship with 7 billion people.  And while Michael certainly carries a great light, with 7 billion people trying to get a piece of him that light is diminished rather quickly.  Better to take that light and ignite the heart of the world.....it's our turn to shine!  Turn the mirror away from a fictional idol and back on ourselves. 

I hope this makes sense.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: MJonmind on May 03, 2013, 03:15:57 PM
Awesome post Gwynned!
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: blankie on May 03, 2013, 07:49:15 PM
I wouldn´t go so far as to say that "Michael Jackson" is only a character and a lie.

But I think that Michael created the persona "King of Pop" to protect his privacy, to take the pressure off the person Michael Jackson and to free up space for the man behind the persona.

And I also agree that maybe all the masks and makeup have been introduced deliberately to make it easier for a "double" to impersonate the King of Pop.

Agree Mary... Leave me alone.... ( say all )....  :moonwalk_:
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: diggyon on May 03, 2013, 08:07:29 PM
What if this is the real Michael Jackson that no one knows! I have encountered so many people in my life who love to live in a mysterious way, who like to be different persons every day, who want to look different each day and act differently according to the situation, yet they are normal people, just acting differently. May be the real MJ is one of those! Plus: he has different talents that are not directly connected to each other . He can sing and dance and write good music, he is an artist, a successful businessman, etc..... I really find nothing strange about the way he acts! So may be it's time to meet the man no one really knows!
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: RK on May 03, 2013, 08:46:12 PM
I am reminded of Al Sharpton's line to the children at the memorial where he said .......There was nothing strange about your Daddy...what happened to your Daddy was strange .
I think we must make adjustments for the unique circumstances that Michael grew up in, before labeling what we consider to be strange behavior. Not one of us here would know what it's like to be working and supporting your family at the age of 6 years old [and in seedy strip clubs and adult venues] during these impressionable and formative years. What we are possibly  interpreting as strange behavior may be the outcome of his unique life experiences. I've always wondered how the man could get a decent night's sleep when he knew there were stalkers and obsessive fans waiting outside his gate at any and all times. Things like that would have to play on your mind some. That one example would cause me great paranoia and angst.
 I'm not debating that there are elements to Michael's public image that are part of a persona, but I am asking us to factor in when we look at what we consider strange behavior,  that fact that his life and formative years were , shall we say unique. 
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: gwynned on May 03, 2013, 11:51:25 PM
I am reminded of Al Sharpton's line to the children at the memorial where he said .......There was nothing strange about your Daddy...what happened to your Daddy was strange .
I think we must make adjustments for the unique circumstances that Michael grew up in, before labeling what we consider to be strange behavior. Not one of us here would know what it's like to be working and supporting your family at the age of 6 years old [and in seedy strip clubs and adult venues] during these impressionable and formative years. What we are possibly  interpreting as strange behavior may be the outcome of his unique life experiences. I've always wondered how the man could get a decent night's sleep when he knew there were stalkers and obsessive fans waiting outside his gate at any and all times. Things like that would have to play on your mind some. That one example would cause me great paranoia and angst.
 I'm not debating that there are elements to Michael's public image that are part of a persona, but I am asking us to factor in when we look at what we consider strange behavior,  that fact that his life and formative years were , shall we say unique. 


I don't think anyone here is  passing judgment on Michael's behavior.  And at one time, I bought the whole victim story.  We were meant to.  Otherwise what happened wouldn't make sense.  For example, we all recall Michael telling the story about his stay in prison and showing his bruises.  Now, I don't have the kind of access to money or power, but if that happened to me, I'd sue their asses.  Big time.  The only way we could believe a person of Michael's stature and notoriety did nothing is if we saw him as a basket case. 

And if he didn't have the wearwithall to stand up for himself, what about his family?  WTF!!!  Are you telling me his mother couldn't have at least picked up the phone and called a lawyer?  Ah, but we learned that Michael was a bit estranged from his family, etc.  BUT, every day, people broken by the system, without the means to defend themselves ARE beaten and thrown in cells full of shit.  We can identify with Michael's powerlessness, and while most of us may not have ever inhabited a cell, we know and can feel, nonetheless, the prison that surrounds us and are powerless against it. 

He was the man in the mirror.  Michael mirrored back to us, or shall we say 'acted out' aspects of ourselves we would deny and think unlovable.  He was awkward, had bad hair days.  He loved his kids but made errors of judgment.  He was contradictory.  He was anything but perfect.

Speaking of....that song Perfect by Pink is on the radio all the time.  I have to think Michael had a hand in it and I can almost hear his voice .

Quote
Pretty, pretty please, don't you ever, ever feel
Like you're less than, less than perfect
Pretty, pretty please, if you ever, ever feel
Like you're nothing you are perfect to me
You're so mean when you talk
About yourself, you are wrong
Change the voices in your head
Make them like you instead

It's easy enough to love Michael Jackson, nearly flawless being with immeasurable talent.  And once the world fell in love with him, he set about making the world fall in love with itself. 


Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: Andrea on May 04, 2013, 12:30:23 AM
I am reminded of Al Sharpton's line to the children at the memorial where he said .......There was nothing strange about your Daddy...what happened to your Daddy was strange .
I think we must make adjustments for the unique circumstances that Michael grew up in, before labeling what we consider to be strange behavior. Not one of us here would know what it's like to be working and supporting your family at the age of 6 years old [and in seedy strip clubs and adult venues] during these impressionable and formative years. What we are possibly  interpreting as strange behavior may be the outcome of his unique life experiences. I've always wondered how the man could get a decent night's sleep when he knew there were stalkers and obsessive fans waiting outside his gate at any and all times. Things like that would have to play on your mind some. That one example would cause me great paranoia and angst.
 I'm not debating that there are elements to Michael's public image that are part of a persona, but I am asking us to factor in when we look at what we consider strange behavior,  that fact that his life and formative years were , shall we say unique. 


Utterly unique.  Not only his childhood but obviously his adult life as well.  Michael has seen and experienced more than most, all over the world, good and bad.  His vision is unparalleled because he has seen it all.  I think it would be fair to say that he is more evolved, for lack of a better word,  than most and a big part of this hoax is to share what he has learned.  Especially when taking into account TS the teacher and Front talking about all the different perspectives people have, the bigger picture and thinking outside the box.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on May 04, 2013, 12:40:59 AM
 :th_bravo: @ Gwynned x
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: MJonmind on May 04, 2013, 01:04:47 AM
Gwynned, you're really on a roll today! :beerchug:
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: bec on May 04, 2013, 02:21:49 AM
Quote
I don't think anyone here is  passing judgment on Michael's behavior.  And at one time, I bought the whole victim story.  We were meant to.  Otherwise what happened wouldn't make sense.  For example, we all recall Michael telling the story about his stay in prison and showing his bruises.  Now, I don't have the kind of access to money or power, but if that happened to me, I'd sue their asses.  Big time.  The only way we could believe a person of Michael's stature and notoriety did nothing is if we saw him as a basket case.

 And if he didn't have the wearwithall to stand up for himself, what about his family?  WTF!!!  Are you telling me his mother couldn't have at least picked up the phone and called a lawyer?  Ah, but we learned that Michael was a bit estranged from his family, etc.  BUT, every day, people broken by the system, without the means to defend themselves ARE beaten and thrown in cells full of shit.  We can identify with Michael's powerlessness, and while most of us may not have ever inhabited a cell, we know and can feel, nonetheless, the prison that surrounds us and are powerless against it.  

He was the man in the mirror.  Michael mirrored back to us, or shall we say 'acted out' aspects of ourselves we would deny and think unlovable.  He was awkward, had bad hair days.  He loved his kids but made errors of judgment.  He was contradictory.  He was anything but perfect.

Holy smokes Gwynned, that's one of the most spectacular things I have ever read on this forum. Hats off girl!
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: Shrimp on May 04, 2013, 05:22:27 AM
I agree with Bec 100%. Wow Gwyned, you go girl!
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: gwynned on May 04, 2013, 08:03:34 AM
Really?  Thanks everyone for not thinking I'm crazy.    I have to admit, I've been hesitant to check back on this thread, fearing I would be banned or merely dismissed or laughed at.  That I'm supported is totally amazing and heartening to me. 

 :bearhug:
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: Andrea on May 04, 2013, 09:20:08 AM
Quote
I don't think anyone here is  passing judgment on Michael's behavior.  And at one time, I bought the whole victim story.  We were meant to.  Otherwise what happened wouldn't make sense.  For example, we all recall Michael telling the story about his stay in prison and showing his bruises.  Now, I don't have the kind of access to money or power, but if that happened to me, I'd sue their asses.  Big time.  The only way we could believe a person of Michael's stature and notoriety did nothing is if we saw him as a basket case.

 And if he didn't have the wearwithall to stand up for himself, what about his family?  WTF!!!  Are you telling me his mother couldn't have at least picked up the phone and called a lawyer?  Ah, but we learned that Michael was a bit estranged from his family, etc.  BUT, every day, people broken by the system, without the means to defend themselves ARE beaten and thrown in cells full of shit.  We can identify with Michael's powerlessness, and while most of us may not have ever inhabited a cell, we know and can feel, nonetheless, the prison that surrounds us and are powerless against it. 

He was the man in the mirror.  Michael mirrored back to us, or shall we say 'acted out' aspects of ourselves we would deny and think unlovable.  He was awkward, had bad hair days.  He loved his kids but made errors of judgment.  He was contradictory.  He was anything but perfect.

Holy smokes Gwynned, that's one of the most spectacular things I have ever read on this forum. Hats off girl!


I agree, brilliant insight Gwynned!  I was very tired last night when I initially read your post but upon re-reading with a fresh mind, this makes a whole lot of sense.  Michael mirrored back to us, or shall we say 'acted out' aspects of ourselves we would deny and think unlovable. - Very true. An example of this, I think this explains the shopping spree in Vegas with Bashir - it reflected the materialistic nature of people, particularly Americans.  Michael did dupe Bashir (and everybody) by demonstrating certain human weaknesses and many were affronted by this because perhaps it was something they didn't want to admit about themselves.  Nothing gets people more defensive and on the offensive when they realize the truth of something in themselves that they don't like.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: sweetsunsetwithMJ on May 04, 2013, 09:58:12 AM
I am reminded of Al Sharpton's line to the children at the memorial where he said .......There was nothing strange about your Daddy...what happened to your Daddy was strange .
I think we must make adjustments for the unique circumstances that Michael grew up in, before labeling what we consider to be strange behavior. Not one of us here would know what it's like to be working and supporting your family at the age of 6 years old [and in seedy strip clubs and adult venues] during these impressionable and formative years. What we are possibly  interpreting as strange behavior may be the outcome of his unique life experiences. I've always wondered how the man could get a decent night's sleep when he knew there were stalkers and obsessive fans waiting outside his gate at any and all times. Things like that would have to play on your mind some. That one example would cause me great paranoia and angst.
 I'm not debating that there are elements to Michael's public image that are part of a persona, but I am asking us to factor in when we look at what we consider strange behavior,  that fact that his life and formative years were , shall we say unique. 


It's a pitty because you started a very good post and argument but sorry to tell you that you are wrong when you say his fans are the problem to his bad sleep, his fans are the only ones that really love him and give everything to him, if necessary, I think Michael wouldn't be able to live without those fans that take care of him the best way they can, I mean come on RK if you told me that Michael can't sleep because those evil guys are lurking behind his money or trying to make of his life a real hell I would understand you but my friend in this case you have failed, imagine Michael's life if he went on stage again and he won't find the love of his fans I think he would feel very empty, that's just my opinion don't have to be yours of course.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: gwynned on May 04, 2013, 10:08:15 AM


I agree, brilliant insight Gwynned!  I was very tired last night when I initially read your post but upon re-reading with a fresh mind, this makes a whole lot of sense.  Michael mirrored back to us, or shall we say 'acted out' aspects of ourselves we would deny and think unlovable. - Very true. An example of this, I think this explains the shopping spree in Vegas with Bashir - it reflected the materialistic nature of people, particularly Americans.  Michael did dupe Bashir (and everybody) by demonstrating certain human weaknesses and many were affronted by this because perhaps it was something they didn't want to admit about themselves.  Nothing gets people more defensive and on the offensive when they realize the truth of something in themselves that they don't like.

Thank you so much for your kind thoughts.   :bearhug:

And thank you for describing more precisely what I was trying to say regarding the mirroring. 

I've had this theory lately that we draw to ourselves people we have something we need to learn and/or emulate, but in a more dramatic and obvious way.  For instance, I once was involved with a man who is extraordinarily messy.  Some would agree that I am as well, but I hadn't really noticed because (1) it's my mess and (2) I was used to it.  But I couldn't ignore HIS mess and began to look at my own with new eyes. 

So what I'm saying is that Michael deliberately mirrored back exagerated tendencies of ours.  And I think you really nailed it with that whole scene with the sarcophagus.  There are certainly other meanings to that scene (ties to Egypt, lets say, and reminders that we are immortal beings), however his delivery is a bit odd.  Very dreamy almost like he was on some sort of drug.  And when Bashir asks him why he would want to buy a sarcaphagus (a logical question!), he responds, 'Because it's beautiful.' 

You really tipped me off with this and I hope I'm not going too far in suggesting that Michael was mirroring the hypnotic state we enter when we enter the commercial world.  It's largely why I rarely go into large department stores.  I know that I'm susceptible to temptation and could likely buy something I don't need and probably don't even want just because it's beautiful.  Concurrent with Michael's shopping sprees it's rumored he's in debt to his eyeballs.  What a gorgeous metaphor.  Michael mortgaging his own future to buy his final resting place, denying that he's ever going to die!  Look at all the people who refinanced their homes to buy luxuries they didn't need, thereby sealing their fates, literally buried under a pile of debt. 
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: Dontwalkaway on May 04, 2013, 11:09:15 AM
Are YOU for real ?

So according to you, since how long is MJ supposed to "not exist" ?
From the moment he faked his fatherhood ? for the moment he decided to fake a child molesting trial ? or during all the years he was called a wacko for just living his life ?
Would one of you tell me when exactly this "impersonating" started and what for ?

Cause if we are to be "honest", you have to tell me WHY MJ pulled up a "great illusion" in which he fights with Sony, doesn't tour for 10 years, has more debts you could ever think of, is called pedophile and wacko by half the planet...

Tell me what was the plan. Cause obviously, it seems it was the worst idea in the known universe.

You have to open your eyes and stop trying to find the best explanation to anything MJ does or did, or will do. Things happen, and pretending "it's illusion" maybe makes you feel better with the image you wish to have of MJ, but doing this is creating an illusion in which you feel good.

Sometime life sucks and even for Michael Jackson.

I think you are asking a good question.  If there was all this manipulation then what was it for ?  Well, I think he told us.  "It's All for Love ".    Maybe part of it could be for security and privacy because the world can be "rotten" you know, but I feel like it's all part of a higher plan.  A plan to heal the world and in my opinion he's working with "God".    The World has been manipulated for centuries, even thousands of years.  We don't see the illusion so he's making us "see" it.  The only way we can heal the world is to break down all these illusions, unite, learn the truth, and take control of the world back, and BRING LOVE BACK INTO THE WORLD.    If you start researching you find out that we don't know the truth about "anything".  (Not history, not science, not religion, not space travel, not politics, not current events).  We continue to let TPTB manipulate and control us.  The way to get control back is to spread truth and bring love back into the world.  Get rid of fear and spread love and then we can evolve. 

That's what this was for in my opinion.  But, he said he can't do it by himself.  It's for us.  "It starts with us, or it'll never be done".   That's what the soldiers of love and the army of love is for.  The first "love" soldiers in order to spread truth and love.  Someone had to start it, so thank you so much Michael.  I know it wasn't easy for MJ and has been very difficult.   I don't even have the words right now to say how thankful I am.  It was all for a higher purpose.  A great learning experience and a "great adventure".  It's just hard for us to sort it all out sometimes.

LOVE         :-*           
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: gwynned on May 04, 2013, 12:48:11 PM

I think you are asking a good question.  If there was all this manipulation then what was it for ?  Well, I think he told us.  "It's All for Love ".    Maybe part of it could be for security and privacy because the world can be "rotten" you know, but I feel like it's all part of a higher plan.  A plan to heal the world and in my opinion he's working with "God".    The World has been manipulated for centuries, even thousands of years.  We don't see the illusion so he's making us "see" it.  The only way we can heal the world is to break down all these illusions, unite, learn the truth, and take control of the world back, and BRING LOVE BACK INTO THE WORLD.    If you start researching you find out that we don't know the truth about "anything".  (Not history, not science, not religion, not space travel, not politics, not current events).  We continue to let TPTB manipulate and control us.  The way to get control back is to spread truth and bring love back into the world.  Get rid of fear and spread love and then we can evolve. 

That's what this was for in my opinion.  But, he said he can't do it by himself.  It's for us.  "It starts with us, or it'll never be done".   That's what the soldiers of love and the army of love is for.  The first "love" soldiers in order to spread truth and love.  Someone had to start it, so thank you so much Michael.  I know it wasn't easy for MJ and has been very difficult.   I don't even have the words right now to say how thankful I am.  It was all for a higher purpose.  A great learning experience and a "great adventure".  It's just hard for us to sort it all out sometimes.

LOVE         :-*         

 :th_bravo:
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: wishingstar on May 04, 2013, 02:20:02 PM
I have sort of refrained from posting on this thread for some reason....though it's a brilliant thread and I have enjoyed reading it for sure. 
Truth is, from the onset of his career I have seen Michael as a character.  He lit up the stage in childhood and continues today.  His persona
on stage....which is every time he's in public.....is only what he wants us to see or perceive him as.  Gwynned's post was a great summation
of how Michael thinks, I believe.  I have always seen characters from Michael....as far as the public person.
Like the Sony speech....totally from the heart.  He put on the badge of
courage to stand up and fight for what's right.  How many times have we had the opportunity, but looked the other way? At times, he dressed as if
to be socially unacceptable.  How many times have we looked at someone and said, ".....ugh, they shouldn't be wearing that.".  But for MJ, well,
he's MJ....all things are acceptable.  Because the media did a fantastic job is discrediting him i.e. Wacko Jacko, etc.  So anything he did, he had to
outdo himself with.  To keep ramping up the mirroring of society.  To then use images of violence....like the bruises......real or not, doesn't matter
because the public got a front row seat to Mj's abuse.  By that time, the public was so programmed to see and expect odd things, it didn't matter.
He managed to craft himself into what Gwynned was saying....the literal man in the mirror.......reflections of all of us, of mankind.  He did so
with perfection.  Perhaps, as time went on, he used doubles here and there for a mirroring effect of the mirror.  Constant confusion of personalities,
of artistry, of social acceptance all melded within one person....Michael Jackson.  He's brilliant really.  Nobody in the history of entertainment has
been able to comment more on social aspects of life.  He has used his gifts, his money, his time to bring to the forefront, many issues.  From abuse,
to bad hair days (lol......count me in!) he has shown the world: sh*t happens.  It's how you deal with it that makes you the better person. 
If This Is It, was to be his, "final curtain call".....we best start believing, we're in it (a nod to Pirates of the Caribbean).  It's not going to last forever......
almost sad.  But, if we are ever to learn about the true Michael Jackson, it has to end.  The parade of characters, the political and social statements,
the extreme musical talents all wrapped up into a gift: Michael Jackson.  An enigma of staggering proportion. 
I guess nothing will surprise me.  But I can't help think, we have yet to see the real Michael.........he's out there, that's for sure.  It's an adventure,
an amazing adventure.

Blessings Always
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: curls on May 05, 2013, 05:20:28 AM
These lyrics from  'Is It Scary?' keep going through my mind as I read this thread:

..........

I'm gonna be
Exactly what you wanna see
It's you whose haunting me
Your warning me
To be the stranger
In your life

Am I amusing you
Or just confusing you
Am I the beast
You visualised
And if you wanna to see
Eccentric oddities
I'll be grotesque
Before your eyes

Let them all materialise

Is that scary for you baby
Am I scary for you
Is it scary for you baby
Is it scary for you
You know the stranger is you
Is it scary for you baby
.........

I'm gonna be
Exactly what you gonna see
So did you come to me
To see your fantasies
Performed before your very eyes

A haunting ghostly treat
The foolish trickery
And spirits dancing
In the night
But if you came to see
The truth the purity
It's here inside
A lonely heart

So let the performance start .........
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: gwynned on May 05, 2013, 07:40:18 AM
curls....good point!  I have not really paid attention to this song so I looked up all the lyrics.  Just after your last line is this curious stanza:

Quote
Masquerade the heart
Is the height of haunting souls
Just not what you seek of me
Can the heart reveal the proof
Like a mirror reveals the truth
See the evil one is you

Some time ago, I was watching one of 12 million hoax videos  :Pulling_hair: and can't remember which one!  But for a moment the words 'The evil is in you" flashed on the screen.  I can't say why that one line out of millions stuck with me, but it did.  If as is said in Heal the World 'We create the world we live in,' this evil inside is reflected back to us.  Logic would dictate that if we were able to remove this 'evil' we would be able to 'live' (note evil is live spelled backwards!!!) more harmoniously.  But the very first step in removing the 'evil' is to see it. 

Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: suspicious mind on May 05, 2013, 08:59:16 AM
These lyrics from  'Is It Scary?' keep going through my mind as I read this thread:

..........

I'm gonna be
Exactly what you wanna see
It's you whose haunting me
Your warning me
To be the stranger
In your life

Am I amusing you
Or just confusing you
Am I the beast
You visualised
And if you wanna to see
Eccentric oddities
I'll be grotesque
Before your eyes

Let them all materialise

Is that scary for you baby
Am I scary for you
Is it scary for you baby
Is it scary for you
You know the stranger is you
Is it scary for you baby
.........

I'm gonna be
Exactly what you gonna see
So did you come to me
To see your fantasies
Performed before your very eyes

A haunting ghostly treat
The foolish trickery
And spirits dancing
In the night
But if you came to see
The truth the purity
It's here inside
A lonely heart

So let the performance start .........

fits like a glove
:moonwalk_:
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: Adi on May 05, 2013, 08:46:14 PM
I don't think anyone here is  passing judgment on Michael's behavior.  And at one time, I bought the whole victim story.  We were meant to.  Otherwise what happened wouldn't make sense.  For example, we all recall Michael telling the story about his stay in prison and showing his bruises.  Now, I don't have the kind of access to money or power, but if that happened to me, I'd sue their asses.  Big time.  The only way we could believe a person of Michael's stature and notoriety did nothing is if we saw him as a basket case. 

And if he didn't have the wearwithall to stand up for himself, what about his family?  WTF!!!  Are you telling me his mother couldn't have at least picked up the phone and called a lawyer?  Ah, but we learned that Michael was a bit estranged from his family, etc.  BUT, every day, people broken by the system, without the means to defend themselves ARE beaten and thrown in cells full of shit.  We can identify with Michael's powerlessness, and while most of us may not have ever inhabited a cell, we know and can feel, nonetheless, the prison that surrounds us and are powerless against it. 

He was the man in the mirror.  Michael mirrored back to us, or shall we say 'acted out' aspects of ourselves we would deny and think unlovable.  He was awkward, had bad hair days.  He loved his kids but made errors of judgment.  He was contradictory.  He was anything but perfect.


Yes  - Michael Joseph Jackson "alleged victim" .... indeed not a victim at all.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: bec on May 05, 2013, 08:52:24 PM
Wow Adi, excellent connection.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: suspicious mind on May 06, 2013, 12:40:48 AM
have wondered from time to time if the brothers could also have sometimes "played the role" of michael


Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: diggyon on May 06, 2013, 04:46:21 AM
Sorry, I don't get it! You guys think MJ did not suffer from any disease and that he was just pretending to be a drug addict? But why? Yo serve the hoax that was planned 20 years ago?
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: curls on May 06, 2013, 09:05:49 AM
And while we're on the subject of 'playing the victim', how about pyjama day in court 2005?  You're not telling me someone from his camp would not have ensured he got some trousers on no matter how late for the court deadline they were!  No, that was surely MJ's idea!
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: wishingstar on May 06, 2013, 09:20:49 AM
The whole pajama day was hilarious to me.......I immediately thought of the old saying, "the cat's pajamas"......it's an old saying which basically means the best.
One could say, "Michael sure was the cat's pajamas that day!"
It struck me as Michael just being himself and saying to the world, he's the best at what he does.  I don't believe I thought anything different.....sort of expect the unexpected, moment for me. 
Love it really.......then the media ran with all those stories of being out of it, drugged up, a hospital visit,...whatever it was.  Anything but Michael being the cat's pajamas, lol......
Awesome.......thanks curls.....yes, no pants required  :icon_lol:

Here's more about the saying:

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cat%27s_pajamas (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cat%27s_pajamas)
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: bec on May 06, 2013, 10:36:04 AM
Sorry, I don't get it! You guys think MJ did not suffer from any disease and that he was just pretending to be a drug addict? But why? Yo serve the hoax that was planned 20 years ago?

Maybe.

Or maybe just for sympathy.

Or maybe for sensationalism.

But I tend to think as you suggested. Yes, to serve the hoax, and planning started 20+ years ago.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: suspicious mind on May 07, 2013, 04:09:31 PM
Sorry, I don't get it! You guys think MJ did not suffer from any disease and that he was just pretending to be a drug addict? But why? Yo serve the hoax that was planned 20 years ago?


i don't know about anyone else here but i think it is possible he just found a way to use it to his advantage.  :penguin:
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: blankie on May 07, 2013, 06:34:53 PM
Sorry, I don't get it! You guys think MJ did not suffer from any disease and that he was just pretending to be a drug addict? But why? Yo serve the hoax that was planned 20 years ago?


i don't know about anyone else here but i think it is possible he just found a way to use it to his advantage.  :penguin:


And did well !!!  :moonwalk_:
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: diggyon on May 07, 2013, 09:11:05 PM
OMG! I don't believe MJ fooled the whole world for more than 20 years, starting with the pepsi accident!!!
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: bec on May 08, 2013, 01:10:01 AM
I do. Starting with the Pepsi incident.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: MJonmind on May 08, 2013, 01:50:10 AM
Aug 29, 1958--9282 days--Pepsi fire--9282 days--June 25, 2009
                       21=777                      21=777
                   from God, illuminati, coindidence or MJ
                               MJ! (or God and MJ)

Here's Bec's page on that, hope you don't mind.
http://exploringthehoax.wordpress.com/tag/9282-days/

Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on May 08, 2013, 03:49:15 AM
OMG! I don't believe MJ fooled the whole world for more than 20 years, starting with the pepsi accident!!!

This to me was the start of the show. He went beyond fooling the world. He has captivated the world and created a generation of people who need to love or hate on Jackson. I believe for hoax purposes and started planning 20 yrs ago, by creating his duality in preparation of the hoax. I also think it plays a strategic role. My mum who is 60 likes MJ. I am 32 and adore MJ. My daughter is 3 and a half and loves MJ. I don't brain wash her with MJ, as I try to let her make her own opinion and explore taste in music. I kid you not, verbatim, my lil girl, asked me, "Mum is Michael Jackson nice or yucky? Mum is Michael Jackson a boy or a girl? Mum is Michael Jackson sick?" THAT really hit home to me and spoke volumes! To hear a kid who has been on the planet for a mere 3.5 years say that, blew me away! Out of the mouth of babes! Besides glorious hoax purposes for duality (And enticing ppl to either, love, hate or judge him) MJ has created such an intriguing ambiguous character who keeps evolving and staying at the height of innovation enertainment wise, that generation after generation of people can NOT resisit to be fascinated with him, whether they worship, love, hate or judge him.

Back to death hoax purposes though. If he has been planning to fake death from bad era, (which I believe he has) then logic says that it would be in his best interests to be duplistic, create facades about his health, mental health, finances, character etc in order to pull off a fake death. The 25 years of lies, theatrics, PR stunts sets the mood or back drop to the hoax. If he didnt create these illusions, perhaps the death hoax wouldnt be as successful. Wheelchair 6 mths before death is a perfect example, of why the hoax is believable to gen public.

And, yes, I too believe pepsi was the start!  :icon_mrgreen:

And while we're on the subject of 'playing the victim', how about pyjama day in court 2005?  You're not telling me someone from his camp would not have ensured he got some trousers on no matter how late for the court deadline they were!  No, that was surely MJ's idea!

Could not agree with you more! Deliberate. The by product of pity was planned to!

You guys think MJ did not suffer from any disease and that he was just pretending to be a drug addict?


Drug addicts are not capable of pulling off what Michael has. Not a judgement, they just can't because of their altered state and dependancy. 100% I believe he was pretending! Thats also why the Jacksons talk about it. If there were a REAL issue, they would be all hush hush and "no comment" ing. Not stripping his dignity by talking about family interventions. This was a definite facade.

All a facade. I bet that even people close to him don't know the real MJ. Not even family.

He is a walking contradiction!
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: whatyourheartsays on May 12, 2013, 02:53:43 PM
If you really believe in this, that nothing happened to him, that all was his plan.... then i guess he really is a master about communication.

But honestly, i don't think so. And i'm not being mean about Michael's ability to do things. Just i don't think everything in life is a plan or part of a greater plan. No way.

This post was just to bring you all back on Earth, a little.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: Do on May 12, 2013, 06:42:27 PM
If you really believe in this, that nothing happened to him, that all was his plan.... then i guess he really is a master about communication.

But honestly, i don't think so. And i'm not being mean about Michael's ability to do things. Just i don't think everything in life is a plan or part of a greater plan. No way.

This post was just to bring you all back on Earth, a little.

I agree with you. This is just too much. Making a fool and a clown of yourself just for a hoax?! To cheat on his fans for years? I tend to go back in time and might assign his confusing behaviour over the years to monarch programming. I even think he himself could have been a victim of sexual abuse, and thereby developed DID (Dissociative identity disorder). As he said in the Schmuley tapes:  "I’ve seen the worst. The nightmare of – the human condition, the human soul, of what I would never think common man would be capable of behaving in such a way." I know Michael denied it (the abuse) but there are several accounts that describe otherwise. He also said he had just two nosejobs (as far as he could remember....that's telling, right?).
I know Michael is capable to do the unthinkable. But to say his life was just for the hoax....That doesn't feel right to me.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: bonnie2013 on May 12, 2013, 08:58:55 PM
If you really believe in this, that nothing happened to him, that all was his plan.... then i guess he really is a master about communication.

But honestly, i don't think so. And i'm not being mean about Michael's ability to do things. Just i don't think everything in life is a plan or part of a greater plan. No way.

This post was just to bring you all back on Earth, a little.

I agree with you. This is just too much. Making a fool and a clown of yourself just for a hoax?! To cheat on his fans for years? I tend to go back in time and might assign his confusing behaviour over the years to monarch programming. I even think he himself could have been a victim of sexual abuse, and thereby developed DID (Dissociative identity disorder). As he said in the Schmuley tapes:  "I’ve seen the worst. The nightmare of – the human condition, the human soul, of what I would never think common man would be capable of behaving in such a way." I know Michael denied it (the abuse) but there are several accounts that describe otherwise. He also said he had just two nosejobs (as far as he could remember....that's telling, right?).
I know Michael is capable to do the unthinkable. But to say his life was just for the hoax....That doesn't feel right to me.

Agreed
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: suspicious mind on May 12, 2013, 10:57:32 PM
If you really believe in this, that nothing happened to him, that all was his plan.... then i guess he really is a master about communication.

But honestly, i don't think so. And i'm not being mean about Michael's ability to do things. Just i don't think everything in life is a plan or part of a greater plan. No way.

This post was just to bring you all back on Earth, a little.

I agree with you. This is just too much. Making a fool and a clown of yourself just for a hoax?! To cheat on his fans for years? I tend to go back in time and might assign his confusing behaviour over the years to monarch programming. I even think he himself could have been a victim of sexual abuse, and thereby developed DID (Dissociative identity disorder). As he said in the Schmuley tapes:  "I’ve seen the worst. The nightmare of – the human condition, the human soul, of what I would never think common man would be capable of behaving in such a way." I know Michael denied it (the abuse) but there are several accounts that describe otherwise. He also said he had just two nosejobs (as far as he could remember....that's telling, right?).
I know Michael is capable to do the unthinkable. But to say his life was just for the hoax....That doesn't feel right to me.

::gee i don't know if mark lester can forget he donated sperm to the king of pop , then the king of pop ought to be able to forget a nose job or two  :thjajaja121:
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: MJonmind on May 13, 2013, 12:12:46 AM
If you really believe in this, that nothing happened to him, that all was his plan.... then i guess he really is a master about communication.

But honestly, i don't think so. And i'm not being mean about Michael's ability to do things. Just i don't think everything in life is a plan or part of a greater plan. No way.

This post was just to bring you all back on Earth, a little.

I agree with you. This is just too much. Making a fool and a clown of yourself just for a hoax?! To cheat on his fans for years? I tend to go back in time and might assign his confusing behaviour over the years to monarch programming. I even think he himself could have been a victim of sexual abuse, and thereby developed DID (Dissociative identity disorder). As he said in the Schmuley tapes:  "I’ve seen the worst. The nightmare of – the human condition, the human soul, of what I would never think common man would be capable of behaving in such a way." I know Michael denied it (the abuse) but there are several accounts that describe otherwise. He also said he had just two nosejobs (as far as he could remember....that's telling, right?).
I know Michael is capable to do the unthinkable. But to say his life was just for the hoax....That doesn't feel right to me.
The whole problem is: that what you're saying is very likely true, yet at the same time there are other layers or factors making MJ's the puppetmaster as well.  There are always these paradoxes of truth going on at the same time in Michael's life, that can drive us crazy.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: Do on May 13, 2013, 02:19:33 AM
If you really believe in this, that nothing happened to him, that all was his plan.... then i guess he really is a master about communication.

But honestly, i don't think so. And i'm not being mean about Michael's ability to do things. Just i don't think everything in life is a plan or part of a greater plan. No way.

This post was just to bring you all back on Earth, a little.

I agree with you. This is just too much. Making a fool and a clown of yourself just for a hoax?! To cheat on his fans for years? I tend to go back in time and might assign his confusing behaviour over the years to monarch programming. I even think he himself could have been a victim of sexual abuse, and thereby developed DID (Dissociative identity disorder). As he said in the Schmuley tapes:  "I’ve seen the worst. The nightmare of – the human condition, the human soul, of what I would never think common man would be capable of behaving in such a way." I know Michael denied it (the abuse) but there are several accounts that describe otherwise. He also said he had just two nosejobs (as far as he could remember....that's telling, right?).
I know Michael is capable to do the unthinkable. But to say his life was just for the hoax....That doesn't feel right to me.

::gee i don't know if mark lester can forget he donated sperm to the king of pop , then the king of pop ought to be able to forget a nose job or two  :thjajaja121:

Mark Lester surely didn't forget he donated sperm. He already claimed he could be Paris' dad (after he donated sperm) way back in august 2009:
 
'Mr Lester, 51, was a close friend of the late pop superstar. He is godfather to Paris, 11, and Jackson's two other children, 12-year-old Prince, and Prince Michael II, the seven-year-old nicknamed Blanket.
He claimed over the weekend that he had donated sperm to Jackson and was willing to take a paternity test to find out the truth.
But Brian Oxman, the Jackson family's lawyer, said he was confident the King of Pop was Paris' father.
“The thing I always heard from Michael was that Michael was the father of these children, and I believe Michael," he said on GMTV from Los Angeles.
Lester, who starred in 1960s musical Oliver!, said he donated sperm to the King of Pop 13 years ago.'


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/michael-jackson/6002778/Michael-Jackson-lawyer-rejects-Mark-Lester-claims-he-is-Paris-father.html
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: Do on May 13, 2013, 02:50:38 AM
If you really believe in this, that nothing happened to him, that all was his plan.... then i guess he really is a master about communication.

But honestly, i don't think so. And i'm not being mean about Michael's ability to do things. Just i don't think everything in life is a plan or part of a greater plan. No way.

This post was just to bring you all back on Earth, a little.

I agree with you. This is just too much. Making a fool and a clown of yourself just for a hoax?! To cheat on his fans for years? I tend to go back in time and might assign his confusing behaviour over the years to monarch programming. I even think he himself could have been a victim of sexual abuse, and thereby developed DID (Dissociative identity disorder). As he said in the Schmuley tapes:  "I’ve seen the worst. The nightmare of – the human condition, the human soul, of what I would never think common man would be capable of behaving in such a way." I know Michael denied it (the abuse) but there are several accounts that describe otherwise. He also said he had just two nosejobs (as far as he could remember....that's telling, right?).
I know Michael is capable to do the unthinkable. But to say his life was just for the hoax....That doesn't feel right to me.
The whole problem is: that what you're saying is very likely true, yet at the same time there are other layers or factors making MJ's the puppetmaster as well.  There are always these paradoxes of truth going on at the same time in Michael's life, that can drive us crazy.

I agree with you on that, the whole thing is just not black nor white, there is a huge twighlight zone in the middle. But I just don't think, for example, he went to court in pyjamas just to manipulate and to be a puppetmaster. This was serious business, and I don't think he would pull such a 'prank' before the eyes of the world on such a delicate occasion: the trial was about being a childmolester or not (whether the whole trial was real or not). I think it was a very, very degrading experience for him and NOT comparable to wheelchair-day. THAT day served a smokescreen for his upcoming, yet not announced This is It concerts. Not about being a criminal or not.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: curls on May 13, 2013, 04:25:30 AM
^^^ and isn't that just the problem, or maybe the purpose, with 'crying wolf'?  Your 'audience' ends up questioning or disbelieving every thing you say or do!  MJ said he was misunderstood, but he didn't exactly make it easy did he?!
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: Do on May 13, 2013, 05:14:29 AM
^^^ and isn't that just the problem, or maybe the purpose, with 'crying wolf'?  Your 'audience' ends up questioning or disbelieving every thing you say or do!  MJ said he was misunderstood, but he didn't exactly make it easy did he?!

If you look deep in your heart, would that be something that makes a human being happy? To fool everybody for years, to go for the eyes of the world through such humiliating experiences?  If so, then I can understand that he found himself the loneliest man on the planet. But, in my eyes, then that was just by his own doing. And that's NOT Michael (to me). You see, for me there is a huge difference in being a great prankster or being a huge liar and manipulator. Heck, if I hadn't been on this forum for four years and learned so many things about him, I might believe Wade Robson right now! Is that what Michael would have wanted? If we are going to believe that everything he said could be a lie, then his denial about the accussations could be a lie too.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: Thriller4ever on May 13, 2013, 05:40:04 AM
No one in this hoax, in my opinion, is believing blindly anything except that Michael is alive, and even that's based on facts. This forum was to give room for discussion, doesn't mean we believe it. Some news article might show up which might prove our theories wrong or right. We can never be sure about anything in this hoax and that's the exact purpose (of notmaking information available for everyone to see until everything is over. I firmly believe this.}
There are certain events in Michael's life that undeniably fit into this hoax.  For example, the video Liberian Girl. or the 1998 signature he did in 1988. or even the pepsi accident. we don't know anything at this moment whether he did them on the future hoax project or made those past events a basis for the hoax.

Coming to MJ's child molestation Cases. the FBI released 333 pages saying MJ is innocent. How can you think that MJ's denial about the accusations could be a lie?

Everything in this hoax for us believers is a guessing game and there's actually no point in thinking a certain way. 
that's what I learned from this hoax.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: Do on May 13, 2013, 07:00:33 AM
No one in this hoax, in my opinion, is believing blindly anything except that Michael is alive, and even that's based on facts. This forum was to give room for discussion, doesn't mean we believe it. Some news article might show up which might prove our theories wrong or right. We can never be sure about anything in this hoax and that's the exact purpose (of notmaking information available for everyone to see until everything is over. I firmly believe this.}
There are certain events in Michael's life that undeniably fit into this hoax.  For example, the video Liberian Girl. or the 1998 signature he did in 1988. or even the pepsi accident. we don't know anything at this moment whether he did them on the future hoax project or made those past events a basis for the hoax.

Coming to MJ's child molestation Cases. the FBI released 333 pages saying MJ is innocent. How can you think that MJ's denial about the accusations could be a lie?

Everything in this hoax for us believers is a guessing game and there's actually no point in thinking a certain way.
that's what I learned from this hoax.

My post was an answer to Curls post, in which I was trying to explain that if you lie half of the times, people (in general) have a harder time to believe you when you are telling the truth. That's what my mother taught me and that's what I'm teaching my children. I also said, in my opinion, that is NOT the case with Michael. In this thread were many posts from members who felt the last part of his life was leading up to the hoax, starting with the pepsi-accident. If they feel so, it's their good right, I just don't agree with that. Michael was a prankster and even a manipulator at some points, but not a straight out liar. And I also feel that the pepsi-accident was what it was: an accident. As is the trial, and pyama-day. Not hoaxy, but real. Pepsi-accident might have formed a 'start', but was real, otherwise he would't have sued pepsi and obtained a large amount which he used for the Michael Jackson Burn Center.

Quote Curls: your 'audience' is questioning or disbelieving everything you say or do

I (and we) don't believe he is guilty, or lied about that, because of what I (we) have learned. What about the other 90 % of the 'audience' that believed the tabloids or couldn't care less now he is 'dead'?
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: whatyourheartsays on May 13, 2013, 07:53:58 AM
i don't think MJ has been hoaxing his life to prepare his hoaxed death.
Now i can surely believe he pulled a plan so that the hoax and everything that happened before could seem like a staged situation. When things happen in your life, you can try to forget about them, which MJ CAN'T, just because he is the most famous guy around ! There will always be someone to remember about what happened before. The only way out is to go forward, finding a way to deal with it.
Saying it's part of the plan could be the choice he made to get out of all this. And if it works, i'll be pretty proud of such a move.

Now i don't believe he faked drug addiction or child molesting trial or anything that happened to him.

I agree there is always several ways to explain things. And I believe we might be given informations that lead us to see it from a side that fits with whatb MJ wish us to see.

If that can help with his image, i'm fine with it. Just i don't buy it. I don't need this to love him anyway.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: suspicious mind on May 13, 2013, 08:12:08 AM
No one in this hoax, in my opinion, is believing blindly anything except that Michael is alive, and even that's based on facts. This forum was to give room for discussion, doesn't mean we believe it. Some news article might show up which might prove our theories wrong or right. We can never be sure about anything in this hoax and that's the exact purpose (of notmaking information available for everyone to see until everything is over. I firmly believe this.}
There are certain events in Michael's life that undeniably fit into this hoax.  For example, the video Liberian Girl. or the 1998 signature he did in 1988. or even the pepsi accident. we don't know anything at this moment whether he did them on the future hoax project or made those past events a basis for the hoax.

Coming to MJ's child molestation Cases. the FBI released 333 pages saying MJ is innocent. How can you think that MJ's denial about the accusations could be a lie?

Everything in this hoax for us believers is a guessing game and there's actually no point in thinking a certain way.
that's what I learned from this hoax.

My post was an answer to Curls post, in which I was trying to explain that if you lie half of the times, people (in general) have a harder time to believe you when you are telling the truth. That's what my mother taught me and that's what I'm teaching my children. I also said, in my opinion, that is NOT the case with Michael. In this thread were many posts from members who felt the last part of his life was leading up to the hoax, starting with the pepsi-accident. If they feel so, it's their good right, I just don't agree with that. Michael was a prankster and even a manipulator at some points, but not a straight out liar. And I also feel that the pepsi-accident was what it was: an accident. As is the trial, and pyama-day. Not hoaxy, but real. Pepsi-accident might have formed a 'start', but was real, otherwise he would't have sued pepsi and obtained a large amount which he used for the Michael Jackson Burn Center.

Quote Curls: your 'audience' is questioning or disbelieving everything you say or do

I (and we) don't believe he is guilty, or lied about that, because of what I (we) have learned. What about the other 90 % of the 'audience' that believed the tabloids or couldn't care less now he is 'dead'?

someone would need to confirm this but i think i read the other day that he didn't sue pepsi but asked them to build the ( i think it was a children's) burn wing in his name at the burn center or something like that.  which kinda makes me go hummm :suspect:40 billion dollars ????? how much would it take to build a childrens hospital ??  :icon_e_wink: :michael-jackson:
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: Do on May 13, 2013, 08:20:34 AM
No one in this hoax, in my opinion, is believing blindly anything except that Michael is alive, and even that's based on facts. This forum was to give room for discussion, doesn't mean we believe it. Some news article might show up which might prove our theories wrong or right. We can never be sure about anything in this hoax and that's the exact purpose (of notmaking information available for everyone to see until everything is over. I firmly believe this.}
There are certain events in Michael's life that undeniably fit into this hoax.  For example, the video Liberian Girl. or the 1998 signature he did in 1988. or even the pepsi accident. we don't know anything at this moment whether he did them on the future hoax project or made those past events a basis for the hoax.

Coming to MJ's child molestation Cases. the FBI released 333 pages saying MJ is innocent. How can you think that MJ's denial about the accusations could be a lie?

Everything in this hoax for us believers is a guessing game and there's actually no point in thinking a certain way.
that's what I learned from this hoax.

My post was an answer to Curls post, in which I was trying to explain that if you lie half of the times, people (in general) have a harder time to believe you when you are telling the truth. That's what my mother taught me and that's what I'm teaching my children. I also said, in my opinion, that is NOT the case with Michael. In this thread were many posts from members who felt the last part of his life was leading up to the hoax, starting with the pepsi-accident. If they feel so, it's their good right, I just don't agree with that. Michael was a prankster and even a manipulator at some points, but not a straight out liar. And I also feel that the pepsi-accident was what it was: an accident. As is the trial, and pyama-day. Not hoaxy, but real. Pepsi-accident might have formed a 'start', but was real, otherwise he would't have sued pepsi and obtained a large amount which he used for the Michael Jackson Burn Center.

Quote Curls: your 'audience' is questioning or disbelieving everything you say or do

I (and we) don't believe he is guilty, or lied about that, because of what I (we) have learned. What about the other 90 % of the 'audience' that believed the tabloids or couldn't care less now he is 'dead'?

someone would need to confirm this but i think i read the other day that he didn't sue pepsi but asked them to build the ( i think it was a children's) burn wing in his name at the burn center or something like that.  which kinda makes me go hummm :suspect:40 billion dollars ????? how much would it take to build a childrens hospital ??  :icon_e_wink: :michael-jackson:

In 1984, while filming a Pepsi Cola commercial, Jackson suffered second degree burns to his scalp after pyrotechnics accidentally set his hair on fire. PepsiCo settled a lawsuit out of court, and Jackson gave his $1.5 million settlement to the "Michael Jackson Burn Center" which was a piece of new technology to help people with severe burns.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heal_the_World_Foundation

Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: suspicious mind on May 13, 2013, 09:02:48 AM
No one in this hoax, in my opinion, is believing blindly anything except that Michael is alive, and even that's based on facts. This forum was to give room for discussion, doesn't mean we believe it. Some news article might show up which might prove our theories wrong or right. We can never be sure about anything in this hoax and that's the exact purpose (of notmaking information available for everyone to see until everything is over. I firmly believe this.}
There are certain events in Michael's life that undeniably fit into this hoax.  For example, the video Liberian Girl. or the 1998 signature he did in 1988. or even the pepsi accident. we don't know anything at this moment whether he did them on the future hoax project or made those past events a basis for the hoax.

Coming to MJ's child molestation Cases. the FBI released 333 pages saying MJ is innocent. How can you think that MJ's denial about the accusations could be a lie?

Everything in this hoax for us believers is a guessing game and there's actually no point in thinking a certain way.
that's what I learned from this hoax.

My post was an answer to Curls post, in which I was trying to explain that if you lie half of the times, people (in general) have a harder time to believe you when you are telling the truth. That's what my mother taught me and that's what I'm teaching my children. I also said, in my opinion, that is NOT the case with Michael. In this thread were many posts from members who felt the last part of his life was leading up to the hoax, starting with the pepsi-accident. If they feel so, it's their good right, I just don't agree with that. Michael was a prankster and even a manipulator at some points, but not a straight out liar. And I also feel that the pepsi-accident was what it was: an accident. As is the trial, and pyama-day. Not hoaxy, but real. Pepsi-accident might have formed a 'start', but was real, otherwise he would't have sued pepsi and obtained a large amount which he used for the Michael Jackson Burn Center.

Quote Curls: your 'audience' is questioning or disbelieving everything you say or do

I (and we) don't believe he is guilty, or lied about that, because of what I (we) have learned. What about the other 90 % of the 'audience' that believed the tabloids or couldn't care less now he is 'dead'?

someone would need to confirm this but i think i read the other day that he didn't sue pepsi but asked them to build the ( i think it was a children's) burn wing in his name at the burn center or something like that.  which kinda makes me go hummm :suspect:40 billion dollars ????? how much would it take to build a childrens hospital ??  :icon_e_wink: :michael-jackson:

In 1984, while filming a Pepsi Cola commercial, Jackson suffered second degree burns to his scalp after pyrotechnics accidentally set his hair on fire. PepsiCo settled a lawsuit out of court, and Jackson gave his $1.5 million settlement to the "Michael Jackson Burn Center" which was a piece of new technology to help people with severe burns.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heal_the_World_Foundation

ahh well maybe i misread or maybe what i saw actually said something different ( would that really be a surprise ?  :icon_lol:) . if i run across it again i will bring it. i think there was a piece on .net that said mark l. forgot about the donation thing. again i could be wrong or if i see it again i will bring it.  :LolLolLolLol:either i am crazy or this whole messed up thing is .  :michael-jackson:
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: Thriller4ever on May 13, 2013, 09:04:01 AM
We don't know a 'thing' about Michael's life and what goes on in his mind. I'm not saying there aren't moments in his life where he was vulnerable. But I can't see him as an emotional wreck doing drugs the way doctors tell him. In Michael's case we can never be sure that events in his life took place in a definite manner.

The Pepsi accident has been discussed before in this forum and I was NOT READY to accept that Michael could have faked it. But who am i to judge? How do I even know or how can i be so sure just because there is a certain impression of Michael in my mind and that he will act in that particular way only. That would mean he shouldn't be faking his death because the Michael I previously knew was 'painfully sensitive and honest' to ever do such a thing. If Michael can fake his death, he can do anything else.
Anything can happen, and nothing is impossible.


@Suspicious I think the i read the same on this very forum.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: Thriller4ever on May 13, 2013, 09:08:29 AM
Anyways, Everyone has their own right to believe what they want. whatever convinces them most.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: suspicious mind on May 13, 2013, 09:19:14 AM
^^^ and isn't that just the problem, or maybe the purpose, with 'crying wolf'?  Your 'audience' ends up questioning or disbelieving every thing you say or do!  MJ said he was misunderstood, but he didn't exactly make it easy did he?!

If you look deep in your heart, would that be something that makes a human being happy? To fool everybody for years, to go for the eyes of the world through such humiliating experiences?  If so, then I can understand that he found himself the loneliest man on the planet. But, in my eyes, then that was just by his own doing. And that's NOT Michael (to me). You see, for me there is a huge difference in being a great prankster or being a huge liar and manipulator. Heck, if I hadn't been on this forum for four years and learned so many things about him, I might believe Wade Robson right now! Is that what Michael would have wanted? If we are going to believe that everything he said could be a lie, then his denial about the accussations could be a lie too.

great post  :th_bravo:
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: sweetsunsetwithMJ on May 13, 2013, 09:39:36 AM
Do:

Quote
I agree with you on that, the whole thing is just not black nor white, there is a huge twighlight zone in the middle. But I just don't think, for example, he went to court in pyjamas just to manipulate and to be a puppetmaster. This was serious business, and I don't think he would pull such a 'prank' before the eyes of the world on such a delicate occasion: the trial was about being a childmolester or not (whether the whole trial was real or not). I think it was a very, very degrading experience for him and NOT comparable to wheelchair-day. THAT day served a smokescreen for his upcoming, yet not announced This is It concerts. Not about being a criminal or not.

I don't believe for one second that a man of the likes of MJ dared to appear wearing a pajamas at the court room if it weren't to fool the media as Jermaine said, I believe Jermaine when he says Michael was a master of media manipulation.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: Do on May 13, 2013, 09:46:06 AM
Anyways, Everyone has their own right to believe what they want. whatever convinces them most.

True ofcourse. I guess I'm having a pretty hard time with the swift from serious reasons for the hoax and JUSTICE for Michael to Michael the prankster on a large scale, since MANY MANY years, in fact, was it really Michael or Prince, was he really burnt and was the trial fake etc.etc. My, Tom Sneddon could have been killed by angry fans for nothing now the trial was all but part of the plan. Maybe TS doesn't exist at all either.

But ofcourse, again my opinion and I do appreciate other views, I'm not claiming I'm 'in the know'!
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: Do on May 13, 2013, 09:49:40 AM
Do:

Quote
I agree with you on that, the whole thing is just not black nor white, there is a huge twighlight zone in the middle. But I just don't think, for example, he went to court in pyjamas just to manipulate and to be a puppetmaster. This was serious business, and I don't think he would pull such a 'prank' before the eyes of the world on such a delicate occasion: the trial was about being a childmolester or not (whether the whole trial was real or not). I think it was a very, very degrading experience for him and NOT comparable to wheelchair-day. THAT day served a smokescreen for his upcoming, yet not announced This is It concerts. Not about being a criminal or not.

I don't believe for one second that a man of the likes of MJ dared to appear wearing a pajamas at the court room if it weren't to fool the media as Jermaine said, I believe Jermaine when he says Michael was a master of media manipulation.

Jermaine said in his book that Michael fooled the media a lot, but not on this particular day. He had such short time to get to court that there wasn't time to go back home from the hospital to change his clothes. But I have to (again) read between the lines I guess.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: Do on May 13, 2013, 10:01:42 AM
^^^ and isn't that just the problem, or maybe the purpose, with 'crying wolf'?  Your 'audience' ends up questioning or disbelieving every thing you say or do!  MJ said he was misunderstood, but he didn't exactly make it easy did he?!

If you look deep in your heart, would that be something that makes a human being happy? To fool everybody for years, to go for the eyes of the world through such humiliating experiences?  If so, then I can understand that he found himself the loneliest man on the planet. But, in my eyes, then that was just by his own doing. And that's NOT Michael (to me). You see, for me there is a huge difference in being a great prankster or being a huge liar and manipulator. Heck, if I hadn't been on this forum for four years and learned so many things about him, I might believe Wade Robson right now! Is that what Michael would have wanted? If we are going to believe that everything he said could be a lie, then his denial about the accussations could be a lie too.

great post  :th_bravo:

Thank you  :bearhug:
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: sweetsunsetwithMJ on May 13, 2013, 10:02:13 AM
No one in this hoax, in my opinion, is believing blindly anything except that Michael is alive, and even that's based on facts. This forum was to give room for discussion, doesn't mean we believe it. Some news article might show up which might prove our theories wrong or right. We can never be sure about anything in this hoax and that's the exact purpose (of notmaking information available for everyone to see until everything is over. I firmly believe this.}
There are certain events in Michael's life that undeniably fit into this hoax.  For example, the video Liberian Girl. or the 1998 signature he did in 1988. or even the pepsi accident. we don't know anything at this moment whether he did them on the future hoax project or made those past events a basis for the hoax.

Coming to MJ's child molestation Cases. the FBI released 333 pages saying MJ is innocent. How can you think that MJ's denial about the accusations could be a lie?

Everything in this hoax for us believers is a guessing game and there's actually no point in thinking a certain way.
that's what I learned from this hoax.

Right very well exposed, thanks.

This is for Do: Michael has been the target since he was 5 years old everybody wanted to know every single Michael's step, he is a very reflexive man and I believe that during his long road or plane trips to his concerts he had enough time to build a plot against media so the world would never know his real life, it's like living a real life in privacy (indoor) and a staged life outdoor to protect his family and himself, do you believe Michael only had 2 women in his life: LMP & Debbie?? those were the ones Michael wanted us to know, furthermore as I once said on one of my posts I don't believe that Michael was/is an unhappy man rather the contrary I would say. 
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: sweetsunsetwithMJ on May 13, 2013, 10:16:45 AM
Whatyourheartsays:

Quote
Now i don't believe he faked drug addiction or child molesting trial or anything that happened to him


Nobody is saying Michael faked child molesting trial that would be awful, we all believe somebody wanted to bury him alive with those accusations but regarding drug addition I believe he started to have pain killers prescribed by evil doctor to make him get hooked to it and he was able to stop it in time and denounce it through his Morphine song lyrics ( Demerol, Demerol of God he is taking Demerol).
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: sweetsunsetwithMJ on May 13, 2013, 10:29:44 AM
No one in this hoax, in my opinion, is believing blindly anything except that Michael is alive, and even that's based on facts. This forum was to give room for discussion, doesn't mean we believe it. Some news article might show up which might prove our theories wrong or right. We can never be sure about anything in this hoax and that's the exact purpose (of notmaking information available for everyone to see until everything is over. I firmly believe this.}
There are certain events in Michael's life that undeniably fit into this hoax.  For example, the video Liberian Girl. or the 1998 signature he did in 1988. or even the pepsi accident. we don't know anything at this moment whether he did them on the future hoax project or made those past events a basis for the hoax.

Coming to MJ's child molestation Cases. the FBI released 333 pages saying MJ is innocent. How can you think that MJ's denial about the accusations could be a lie?

Everything in this hoax for us believers is a guessing game and there's actually no point in thinking a certain way.
that's what I learned from this hoax.

My post was an answer to Curls post, in which I was trying to explain that if you lie half of the times, people (in general) have a harder time to believe you when you are telling the truth. That's what my mother taught me and that's what I'm teaching my children. I also said, in my opinion, that is NOT the case with Michael. In this thread were many posts from members who felt the last part of his life was leading up to the hoax, starting with the pepsi-accident. If they feel so, it's their good right, I just don't agree with that. Michael was a prankster and even a manipulator at some points, but not a straight out liar. And I also feel that the pepsi-accident was what it was: an accident. As is the trial, and pyama-day. Not hoaxy, but real. Pepsi-accident might have formed a 'start', but was real, otherwise he would't have sued pepsi and obtained a large amount which he used for the Michael Jackson Burn Center.

Quote Curls: your 'audience' is questioning or disbelieving everything you say or do

I (and we) don't believe he is guilty, or lied about that, because of what I (we) have learned. What about the other 90 % of the 'audience' that believed the tabloids or couldn't care less now he is 'dead'?

someone would need to confirm this but i think i read the other day that he didn't sue pepsi but asked them to build the ( i think it was a children's) burn wing in his name at the burn center or something like that.  which kinda makes me go hummm :suspect:40 billion dollars ????? how much would it take to build a childrens hospital ??  :icon_e_wink: :michael-jackson:

Did Michael Jackson sue Pepsi?

No.

Pepsi settled out of court, and Jackson donated his $1.5 million settlement to the Brotman Medical Center in Culver City, CA.
Source(s):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_jac…

http://www.michaeljackson.com/es/node/450248
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: sweetsunsetwithMJ on May 13, 2013, 10:41:21 AM
We don't know a 'thing' about Michael's life and what goes on in his mind. I'm not saying there aren't moments in his life where he was vulnerable. But I can't see him as an emotional wreck doing drugs the way doctors tell him. In Michael's case we can never be sure that events in his life took place in a definite manner.

The Pepsi accident has been discussed before in this forum and I was NOT READY to accept that Michael could have faked it. But who am i to judge? How do I even know or how can i be so sure just because there is a certain impression of Michael in my mind and that he will act in that particular way only. That would mean he shouldn't be faking his death because the Michael I previously knew was 'painfully sensitive and honest' to ever do such a thing. If Michael can fake his death, he can do anything else.
Anything can happen, and nothing is impossible.


@Suspicious I think the i read the same on this very forum.



I happened the same as you say but......after seeing the below pic  :icon_eek: who being in pain and shocked by an accident feels like wearing a sequin glove and highlighting it to be sure everybody was able to see it?

(http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID26389/images/burned.jpg)
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: Do on May 13, 2013, 10:42:49 AM
No one in this hoax, in my opinion, is believing blindly anything except that Michael is alive, and even that's based on facts. This forum was to give room for discussion, doesn't mean we believe it. Some news article might show up which might prove our theories wrong or right. We can never be sure about anything in this hoax and that's the exact purpose (of notmaking information available for everyone to see until everything is over. I firmly believe this.}
There are certain events in Michael's life that undeniably fit into this hoax.  For example, the video Liberian Girl. or the 1998 signature he did in 1988. or even the pepsi accident. we don't know anything at this moment whether he did them on the future hoax project or made those past events a basis for the hoax.

Coming to MJ's child molestation Cases. the FBI released 333 pages saying MJ is innocent. How can you think that MJ's denial about the accusations could be a lie?

Everything in this hoax for us believers is a guessing game and there's actually no point in thinking a certain way.
that's what I learned from this hoax.

Right very well exposed, thanks.

This is for Do: Michael has been the target since he was 5 years old everybody wanted to know every single Michael's step, he is a very reflexive man and I believe that during his long road or plane trips to his concerts he had enough time to build a plot against media so the world would never know his real life, it's like living a real life in privacy (indoor) and a staged life outdoor to protect his family and himself, do you believe Michael only had 2 women in his life: LMP & Debbie?? those were the ones Michael wanted us to know, furthermore as I once said on one of my posts I don't believe that Michael was/is an unhappy man rather the contrary I would say.

Sweet, I'm missing your point I guess. I'm not talking about a private life versus a public life (yes, he dated more women, like Tatum, Brooke, Madonna and even Diana I guess!), I'm talking about the reasons for the hoax and what people feel is 'all part of the plan'. Because lately, it seems like everything is ' part of the plan'. Even when Wade Robson claimed he was sexual molested by Michael, people were saying that Michael could be behind the claims, to righten the wrongs. I'm sorry, but I can't get my head wrapped around that concept.

And maybe he was really happy at some periods in his life. But these are also quotes from him:

Michael:  "I’ve seen the worst. The nightmare of – the human condition, the human soul, of what I would never think common man would be capable of behaving in such a way."

Schmuley asks Michael “You’re not angry at God, you’re not angry at the world?”

Michael responds – “I’m not angry.  I’m very taken by it.  I’m hurt.  I cry an awful lot."

"But if you don't have that memory of being loved, you are condemned to search the world for something to fill you up. But no matter how much money you make or how famous you become, you will still feel empty. What you are really searching for is unconditional love, unqualified acceptance. And that was the one thing that was denied to you at birth." [Michael Jackson, 2001]

“I’m going to say something I have never said before and this is the truth. I have no reason to lie to you and God knows I am telling the truth. I think all my success and fame, and oh I have wanted it, I have wanted it because I WANTED TO BE LOVED. THATS ALL!! That’s the real truth. I wanted people to love me, TRULY LOVE ME, because I never really FELT LOVED. I said I know I have an ability. Maybe if I sharpened my craft, maybe people will love me more. I just wanted to be LOVED because I think is is very important to be loved and to tell people that you love them and to look in their eyes and say it!" Michael Jackson in a 2001 interview.

To me, reading this is very painful and from what he was telling many times about loneliness, I guess, overall, he wasn't a happy person. And it's one thing to fool and manipulate the media, it's another thing to fool and manipulate your fanbase.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: Andrea on May 13, 2013, 10:50:20 AM
For some reason this conversation reminded of this post from Front, where he speaks of the ongoing battle between good and evil.  Being aware of this could be a reason to create illusions, to confuse not only the public but the 'enemies' (evil) as well.  But even through any illusions, Michael has always been clear about his message of love for the world and everyone in it.  And being aware of good vs. evil would require an ongoing "plan" of sorts, if Michael feels or knows he's been chosen to fight it.  I might be taking this quote out of context but what we believe about Michael and what we actually know are two different things, to paraphrase what Front said.  But the truth might not be apparent for anyone not listening closely enough.

Quote
The end always gives way to a beginning.

Scientists tell us that dark matter exists, but they cannot SEE it. They have admitted that they can't find 90 percent of the Universe! We cannot see or touch it; its existence is IMPLIED ---through findings/"evidence".

Throughout the History of time, there has been an ongoing battle between GOOD and EVIL. Prophets have walked among us pre-June 25 and continue to walk among us --- physically in the flesh OR implied through Faith. They walk the face of the Earth with a message --- Love for all human-kind….. and deLIVErance; the common denominator of Prophetic messages.

The world listened when Michael fought his battles with UNdying determination ---and JUSTICE prevailed. And they listened to his message. BUt they did NOT listen close enough! SOME people only "heard" (half truths)…… while others truly "listened" (Truth!)  ---- they got the whole enchilada.

That battle is still being fought……just on a different layer of the "enchilada".

Believing and knowing are two different things. Don't take my word as conclusive evidence. The proof will be provided in future HIStory……….

http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forum/index.php/topic,5167.msg335773.html#msg335773


Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: Do on May 13, 2013, 10:55:08 AM
Quote Sweet:
I happened the same as you say but......after seeing the below pic   who being in pain and shocked by an accident feels like wearing a sequin glove?


Because the showman in him prevailed. He thought it would be a great shot of him , being on the strecher with the glove on, knowing there was a lot of press. You know his slogan was 'the show must go on'.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: suspicious mind on May 13, 2013, 10:57:02 AM
If you really believe in this, that nothing happened to him, that all was his plan.... then i guess he really is a master about communication.

But honestly, i don't think so. And i'm not being mean about Michael's ability to do things. Just i don't think everything in life is a plan or part of a greater plan. No way.

This post was just to bring you all back on Earth, a little.

I agree with you. This is just too much. Making a fool and a clown of yourself just for a hoax?! To cheat on his fans for years? I tend to go back in time and might assign his confusing behaviour over the years to monarch programming. I even think he himself could have been a victim of sexual abuse, and thereby developed DID (Dissociative identity disorder). As he said in the Schmuley tapes:  "I’ve seen the worst. The nightmare of – the human condition, the human soul, of what I would never think common man would be capable of behaving in such a way." I know Michael denied it (the abuse) but there are several accounts that describe otherwise. He also said he had just two nosejobs (as far as he could remember....that's telling, right?).
I know Michael is capable to do the unthinkable. But to say his life was just for the hoax....That doesn't feel right to me.

::gee i don't know if mark lester can forget he donated sperm to the king of pop , then the king of pop ought to be able to forget a nose job or two  :thjajaja121:
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=440935;topic=23811.75

Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: sweetsunsetwithMJ on May 13, 2013, 10:57:49 AM
Ok Do as somebody said: IF MICHAEL IS CAPABLE OF FAKING HIS DAEATH IS CAPABLE OF FAKING OR FOOLING ANYTHING/ANYBODY (I am talking about Pepsi burn in this case) : FANBASE, MEDIA, ETC... that's what I have learned from his hoax I am sorry if I am wrong but Michael has made me think this way, and the most important thing: I don't believe anything I watch on TV or read on a magazine or newspaper, in this case I am talking about Boston bombing, sorry off topic.

Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: sweetsunsetwithMJ on May 13, 2013, 10:59:50 AM
Quote Sweet:
I happened the same as you say but......after seeing the below pic   who being in pain and shocked by an accident feels like wearing a sequin glove?


Because the showman in him prevailed. He thought it would be a great shot of him , being on the strecher with the glove on, knowing there was a lot of press. You know his slogan was 'the show must go on'.

Hmmmmm!!
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: Thriller4ever on May 13, 2013, 11:07:39 AM
Ok Do, I must honestly say this, I really think you're in a transition period, which me, Sweetsunset and several others went through. Take your own time. Michael may not really be the man we always knew. 

No one is saying they know everything here. Things in his life can be either ways, but if you think logically, they tend more towards hoax.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: suspicious mind on May 13, 2013, 11:11:38 AM
Quote Sweet:
I happened the same as you say but......after seeing the below pic   who being in pain and shocked by an accident feels like wearing a sequin glove?


Because the showman in him prevailed. He thought it would be a great shot of him , being on the strecher with the glove on, knowing there was a lot of press. You know his slogan was 'the show must go on'.

Hmmmmm!!
i think there was a story that he picked the glove up and put it on but it seemed like ( and this is strictly from memory) that the glove never was off. just sayin' , anyone looked?
here it is . he comes straight up with that gloved hand about to touch it even. by the way check out the location of that spot , look familiar? :icon_lol:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgb-zCnz9mE[/youtube]
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: Do on May 13, 2013, 11:36:08 AM
Quote Sweet:
I happened the same as you say but......after seeing the below pic   who being in pain and shocked by an accident feels like wearing a sequin glove?


Because the showman in him prevailed. He thought it would be a great shot of him , being on the strecher with the glove on, knowing there was a lot of press. You know his slogan was 'the show must go on'.

Hmmmmm!!
i think there was a story that he picked the glove up and put it on but it seemed like ( and this is strictly from memory) that the glove never was off. just sayin' , anyone looked?

I watched the vid. When Michael emerged from the pile of people that was trying to help him, the glove was still on, as it was when he was being led away.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: Do on May 13, 2013, 11:50:26 AM
Ok Do, I must honestly say this, I really think you're in a transition period, which me, Sweetsunset and several others went through. Take your own time. Michael may not really be the man we always knew.

No one is saying they know everything here. Things in his life can be either ways, but if you think logically, they tend more towards hoax.

Could very well be. It just doesn't feel 'right', you know? Actually, everything that is going on (not on the forum, but in the news) gives me the chills. Sometimes I even feel that there isn't even a hoax! I wasn't very active over here the last months, and that time away created some kind of 'other reality' I guess. Maybe I missed some valuabel info. Time to read up again.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: Thriller4ever on May 13, 2013, 12:18:05 PM
Ok Do, I must honestly say this, I really think you're in a transition period, which me, Sweetsunset and several others went through. Take your own time. Michael may not really be the man we always knew.

No one is saying they know everything here. Things in his life can be either ways, but if you think logically, they tend more towards hoax.

Could very well be. It just doesn't feel 'right', you know? Actually, everything that is going on (not on the forum, but in the news) gives me the chills. Sometimes I even feel that there isn't even a hoax! I wasn't very active over here the last months, and that time away created some kind of 'other reality' I guess. Maybe I missed some valuabel info. Time to read up again.

Don't worry do, everything will be alright. I exactly know how you feel, I had even turned into a non believer again. that was long ago. It feels like Death Hoax is way too unrealistic. Almost sounds like a dream and that's why we find ourselves comfortable in the reality that was previously presented. But this too shall pass. Just enjoy the ride. After All, Michael's the driver. We'll never know which lane he drives into...but i'm pretty sure he'll get us home!
And also, it's not about us...it's about him. All of this takes lot of time, but the result would be worth waiting.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: MJonmind on May 13, 2013, 12:57:41 PM
Andrea, that Front post is so profound in implying the hoax has co-existed with the public presentation of the his life. His (Michael’s) confidence so solid, almost as if it is impossible for the plan to derail, like it’s written in the stars.

Here is an excerpt from Back’s theory of a vision:
Quote
Though the hands of tIME still move incrementally, tick-tock, tick-tock, it is quickly running thin on the 2 decade long, elaborate planning that culminated in this execution. I can now understand that "vision" of 6/25/06 relapse", with CLARITY. This is no conspiracy theory! However, believe as you may. But believing and knowing--- are two different things.


Arms, wrist and feet. Bludgeoned through the veins.
Arms, wrist and feet, Poisoned through the veins.
Two different Kings, with different Reigns.
And The End result shall be the same.

JUSTICE........For it is already written!
I’ve wondered to what extent MJ took drugs—earlier before rehab, or does this also include under Dr. Murray’s hands, but that it didn’t actually kill him. I know the Irish doctor Treacy said MJ had gone under general anthesia a couple of times in Ireland for some cosmetic surgery.

Then during MJ’s interview with Oprah, he said the oxygen chamber and elephant man bones were stupid lies, but later we hear that Frank Dileo was told by him to put them in the news to start controversy.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: bec on May 13, 2013, 01:13:22 PM
"MJ sued Pepsi", did he really? The official story is he settled out of court aka privately, so what really happened? We have no idea. We only know what we are told. We only know what MJ chooses to let us in on. And it may or may not be the truth.


This post was just to bring you all back on Earth, a little.

Or perhaps you need to do more research before settling on a conclusion.

"Trust in me, just in me, put all your trust in me", is probably as truthful as it gets so that's where I'm at. I have faith in MJ, and I trust he has a plan, so I don't sweat the details. Everything is under control.

Plus, we saw current events coming. It has been foretold. That's hard to ignore.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: Thriller4ever on May 13, 2013, 01:23:58 PM
We only know what we are told. We only know what MJ chooses to let us in on. And it may or may not be the truth.



+1
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: MJonmind on May 13, 2013, 02:07:52 PM
Bec
Quote
We only know what we are told. We only know what MJ chooses to let us in on. And it may or may not be the truth.
Ah...just like TS. :icon_e_wink:

This song came to mind in the sense that MJ has pulled us in, we love it and hate it, and we (I) wouldn't want it any other way. I probably wouldn't have gone down this vast rabbithole had there not been a hoax (beLIEve) involved.
'Human Nature', all the way and MJ knows it well --  http://www.lyrics007.com/Michael%20Jackson%20Lyrics/Human%20Nature%20Lyrics.html
And we have to keep in mind, "Artists tell lies to reveal truth." Much of the history we've been told is a lie.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrOe2h9RtWI[/youtube]
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: gwynned on May 13, 2013, 02:15:52 PM
We only know what we are told. We only know what MJ chooses to let us in on. And it may or may not be the truth.



+1
+2

Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: sweetsunsetwithMJ on May 13, 2013, 04:28:24 PM
1- When the explosion takes place the screen becomes blank??.

2- After getting down the stairs he start spinning but in an unusual way like spinning just to extinguish the fire on his head as he knew there were flames on his hair (he is probably wearing a wig to avoid risks) and all was staged.

3- If this really was a deal between Pepsi and Michael I believe this accident benefited both of them Pepsi got a good marketing momentum and Michael got the money to build the wing for burned people and the one who paid was the insurance company.

4- Sorry Michael if this was not staged but you have taught me not to believe everything I see.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgb-zCnz9mE&feature=player_embedded#![/youtube]
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: bec on May 13, 2013, 04:39:06 PM
Notice who's right there... Miko Brando.

Notice who was right there with another "burn victim" on LKL...

Just sayin'.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: sweetsunsetwithMJ on May 13, 2013, 04:58:24 PM
Notice who's right there... Miko Brando.

Notice who was right there with another "burn victim" on LKL...

Just sayin'.

Yeah good point Bec, I really hope this accident is not true I don't like to see Michael suffering furthermore I don't want Michael to have any sequelae from it, so if this wasn't true his addiction to pain killers shouldn't be true either btw.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: everlastinglove_MJ on May 13, 2013, 05:48:30 PM
I'm quoting some parts of chapter "All you need is love" from 'Moonwalk':

Quote
Miko Brando, who works for me, was the first person to reach me. After that, it was a chaos. It was crazy. No film could properly capture the drama of what went on that night. The crowd was screaming. Someone shouted, "Get some ice!" The emergency truck came up and before they put me in I saw the Pepsi executives huddled together in a corner, looking terrified. I remember the medical people putting me in a cot and the guys from Pepsi were so scared they couldn't even bring themselves to check on me. Meanwhile, I was kind of detached, despite of the terrible pain. I was watching all the drama unfold.

Quote
When we got there, they told me there were news crews outside, so I asked for my glove. There's a famous shot of me waving from the stretcher with my glove on.

Quote
I still remember how scared those Pepsi executives looked the night of the fire.

Quote
They knew I could have sued them and I could have, but I was real nice about it. Real nice. They gave me $ 1,500,000 which I immediately donated to the Michael Jackson Burn Center. I wanted to do something because I was so moved by the other burn patients I met while I was in the hospital.

Reading this part again my first thoughts are about the striking similarity of behaviour of the executives of Pepsi and AEG, cunning and ruthless, without any concern about the health and well-being of the artist, only thinking about publicity and money. Michael didn't sue Pepsi then, but he's suing AEG now, for many damages, one of them is heartlessness, and with the purpose of showing the world that lies for good publicity and big money is top priority for these monster giants.

LOVE
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: bec on May 13, 2013, 07:01:34 PM
Suing over the wrongful death of someone you know isn't dead almost has to be fraud. Especially if that person is only pretending to be dead.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: blankie on May 13, 2013, 09:04:03 PM
Suing over the wrongful death of someone you know isn't dead almost has to be fraud. Especially if that person is only pretending to be dead.


 :D
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: Andrea on May 13, 2013, 09:28:37 PM
Suing over the wrongful death of someone you know isn't dead almost has to be fraud. Especially if that person is only pretending to be dead.


Maybe that's where "alleged" comes into play?
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: MJonmind on May 13, 2013, 09:30:25 PM
The fact that the medical papers for celebrity Michael’s burn and hospital stay, were thrown out into the garbage in the back lane, tells something too. Trash means not true, and I’m sure if the man’s story is true, then he was meant to find those papers.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: bec on May 13, 2013, 11:59:05 PM
Suing over the wrongful death of someone you know isn't dead almost has to be fraud. Especially if that person is only pretending to be dead.


Maybe that's where "alleged" comes into play?

He's an alleged victim but not allegedly dead. They stipulated that MJ is dead. AEG being sued by Mrs. Jackson for wrongful death for billions. Far out, right?
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: Andrea on May 14, 2013, 01:01:21 AM
Suing over the wrongful death of someone you know isn't dead almost has to be fraud. Especially if that person is only pretending to be dead.


Maybe that's where "alleged" comes into play?

He's an alleged victim but not allegedly dead. They stipulated that MJ is dead. AEG being sued by Mrs. Jackson for wrongful death for billions. Far out, right?

Ya it's something alright.  Far out is probably the best way to describe it!  I wonder if the sting vs hoax court exercise with Murray's trial was also a precursor for this trial and is why we've had silence from TS.  To see if we apply what we have learned along the way and recognize the trial for what it is..?  Even without the advantage of having cameras in the courtroom.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: curls on May 14, 2013, 02:13:50 AM
Suing over the wrongful death of someone you know isn't dead almost has to be fraud. Especially if that person is only pretending to be dead.

Wouldn't you have to apply the same logic to the Pepsi incident, if it was staged, as you believe it was? Taking 1.5 million for a pretend burn accident is surely fraud. Or do you think Pepsi were in on it, just as AEG are now?
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: bec on May 14, 2013, 02:31:37 AM
Depends on the wording of the deal. If Pepsi agreed to donate money for a specific cause as part of MJ's contract then so be it. To me it's not the same. One's a court case, one's a private agreement.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: curls on May 14, 2013, 02:56:52 AM
Not sure I agree bec - fake a burn accident, take 1.5 million; fake a death, take 40 billion - seems pretty much the same to me, court or no court. Which, like I said before, begs the question: were Pepsi in on it? If they weren't, and MJ had that 1.5 mil pre-written in a contract, then Pepsi must've thought they'd got away with an 'accident' of their own making, because they were always going to pay/donate that money anyway. Not only did they get away with it, but they even saved face/gained respect in the eyes of the public by 'donating' this way.

Interesting questions! Not sure we're ever gonna find the answers!
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: MJonmind on May 14, 2013, 03:32:38 AM
This whole page is an interesting read. Something, was going down, that's for sure.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Giraldi
Quote
According to Captain Don Donester, the fire safety inspector, who was on the set during filming of the commercial, overheard Giraldi informing Michael Jackson to "Stand there longer [under the sparks]. You'll look more majestic."

Weird connection TMZ posted link to:
http://www.starpulse.com/news/Kevin_Blair/2013/04/30/where_are_they_now_alfonso_ribeiro_aka
Carlton Banks from Fresh Prince of Bel Air, was in the Pepsi commercial shoot as a kid, with Giraldi directing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Md5lPyuvsk
http://bestofmichaeljackson.jclondon.com/2010/05/16/interview-essence-com-talks-to-alfonso-ribeiro-about-dancing-with-michael-jackson-in-the-80s-pepsi-commercial/  And no claims MJ abused him. :icon_e_smile:
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: suspicious mind on May 21, 2013, 02:48:03 PM
do we know if pepsi paid out or their insurance ? like michael didn't personally pay out on jordie but his insurance.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: sweetsunsetwithMJ on May 21, 2013, 04:07:10 PM
Sorry I didn't know where to post it:

One year ago I was talking about Justin Bieber being in on the hoax, what do you guys think about this pic where it says: BIEBER AIR FLIGHT 777    :LolLolLolLol:


(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/575430_4574977346369_1958234410_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: Jos on May 21, 2013, 05:30:45 PM
"Well, what worked for MJ, will work for me too!"

I'm sorry, I don't like the kid, he seems like one bik (arrogant) copy-cat to me. :smiley-vault-misc-150:
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: bec on May 21, 2013, 08:50:21 PM
Not sure I agree bec - fake a burn accident, take 1.5 million; fake a death, take 40 billion - seems pretty much the same to me, court or no court. Which, like I said before, begs the question: were Pepsi in on it? If they weren't, and MJ had that 1.5 mil pre-written in a contract, then Pepsi must've thought they'd got away with an 'accident' of their own making, because they were always going to pay/donate that money anyway. Not only did they get away with it, but they even saved face/gained respect in the eyes of the public by 'donating' this way.

Interesting questions! Not sure we're ever gonna find the answers!

I'm glad someone bumped this topic back up as I didn't know where to find it n your question has been turning around in my mind for some time, curls.

In my mind it's different. I've been trying to verbalize my reasons since you posed it to me, with varying degrees of success, but I've had some time to mull it over since then so here goes.

The Pepsi deal was done behind closed doors so we have no way of knowing what the nature of it really was. Was it an insurance pay out? A settlement avoiding lawsuit? A kickback on the contract? Or simply money MJ was slated to receive anyway? No concrete answers emerge due to the private nature of the original arrangement. All we have at our disposal regarding this Pepsi payout to MJ being donated to children's hospital is hearsay.

On the other hand, we have court documents proving that this "case" is occurring as we speak. It's collaborated by members of the media sitting in court, lawyers making statements to journalists, and court watchers reporting on persons of interest arriving and going inside.

In other words, the one (Pepsi agreement) was never public, only the alleged outcome, the other (wrongful death trail) is very much public record ongoing.

Pepsi agreement could easily be "spun" in whatever direction MJ wanted, which ever explanation served his needs at the time. It didn't have to be the truth, it's entirely possible that MJ arranged for his PR department to be allowed to say whatever they wanted to say and Pepsi had no input. They were just happy NOT to be getting sued (in my imagination), and were happy to agree to put on for show, that they paid up to MJ so he could donate to kids hospital, makes everyone look good, and the alternative (in Pepsi executive's minds, I speculate) would be a PR nightmare.

You could spin it anyway you wanted. There's zero proof that Pepsi paid MJ because they were negligent, or felt negligent, or were accused of negligence.

Say MJ DID hoax the world and faked the Pepsi burn, hoaxing Pepsi in the process. Say Pepsi freaked out because they thought it was real. Say they would be suspicious if MJ did NOT have a grievance about it. Say MJ said "no really, it's alright, but to prove it's alright, and I'm not going to come back n sue you later, how about you donate some money to a children's hospital and we will call it good? Here, my PR department will spin it for the press and you guys will come out of it looking like heros... Pepsi agrees, everyone wins.

Who knows if it didn't go down like that? Maybe it did, maybe it didn't, all we have is our imagination to go on here. We have no proof either way. All we know for sure is that no lawsuit came out of the "accident".

But wrongful death is different. IF it's real court, then KJ REALLY IS suing AEG for a whole bunch of money KNOWING that her son is not dead, wrongful or otherwise. That's fraud. Period. We know that court is really going on right now and there's simply two explanations for that. ONE: KJ really is suing for wrongful death of a live MJ knowing he is not actually dead or TWO: court is being staged.

I don't think MJ could dig himself out of a hole that deep (former explanation) and come back (Bam!) after putting his mom up to bring false claims to litigation. And it makes no sense, in a 4 year hoax where some great lengths have been taken NOT to break the law, this sure would be a doozy of criminal activity to end with.

If track record counts for anything, I do not believe that MJ or KJ would commit fraud and I see no way around that IF the former explanation is true.

Now of course, MJ has the best lawyers in the world and what do I know of legal whathaveyou's--not much at the end of the day. All I have is my logic, common sense, and imagination to play with, so I do, and that's what I have been able to come up with. For what it's worth.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: Andrea on May 21, 2013, 09:37:25 PM
Is there still a Michael Jackson Burn Center? I googled it and all I could find was that the original one was closed in 1987 (I didn't know that)...the article was written on Michael's 29th birthday (!) ...saying it had closed the day before because it had been losing money.

The article also notes that the $1.5 Million donated from Michael was to be used for research but received no operating money from it, that it was instead used for patient entertainment.  The article also states that Michael's representatives learned of the closure only hours before it happened.

http://articles.latimes.com/1987-08-29/business/fi-1391_1_brotman-medical-center
 (http://articles.latimes.com/1987-08-29/business/fi-1391_1_brotman-medical-center)


So if the Pepsi burn was a hoax, then someone(s) from this hospital would've needed to be 'in on it' because Michael's head would NOT have been actually burned and treated there - and in return, the hospital gets the money - which apparently they didn't handle well.  ?


@bec - what about FBI involvement in the court to make it, if not quite legal, then at least not illegal? Remember the FBI blanket can cover all sorts, lol.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: bec on May 21, 2013, 10:11:32 PM
@Andrea:

Right right FBI. Does anyone know how the FBI theory applies to current events?

Was it MJonmind that identified the ~ever-present~ doctor so-and-so on the other thread?
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: Andrea on May 21, 2013, 10:19:17 PM


Was it MJonmind that identified the ~ever-present~ doctor so-and-so on the other thread?


Yes, this fits perfectly here.

http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forum/index.php/topic,23861.msg441442.html#msg441442

Wiki
Quote
1975–81: Move to Epic and Off the Wall
In June 1975, the Jackson 5 signed with Epic Records, a subsidiary of CBS Records[27] and renamed themselves the Jacksons. Younger brother Randy formally joined the band around this time, while Jermaine choose to stay with Motown and pursue a solo career.[28] They continued to tour internationally, releasing six more albums between 1976 and 1984, during which Michael was the lead songwriter, writing hits such as "Shake Your Body (Down to the Ground)", "This Place Hotel", and "Can You Feel It".[24] In 1978, he starred as the Scarecrow in the musical, The Wiz, a box-office disaster. It was here that he teamed up with Quincy Jones, who was arranging the film's musical score. Jones agreed to produce Jackson's next solo album, Off the Wall.[29]
In 1979, Jackson broke his nose during a complex dance routine. His subsequent rhinoplasty was not a complete success; he complained of breathing difficulties that would affect his career. He was referred to Dr. Steven Hoefflin, who performed Jackson's second rhinoplasty and subsequent operations.[30]


Jones and Jackson produced the Off the Wall album together. Songwriters for the album included Jackson, Rod Temperton, Stevie Wonder, and Paul McCartney. Released in 1979, it was the first solo album to generate four U.S. top 10 hits, including the chart-topping singles "Don't Stop 'til You Get Enough" and "Rock with You".[31][32] It reached number three on the Billboard 200 and eventually sold over 20 million copies worldwide.[33] In 1980, Jackson won three awards at the American Music Awards for his solo efforts: Favorite Soul/R&B Album, Favorite Soul/R&B Male Artist, and Favorite Soul/R&B Single for "Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough".[34][35] That year, he also won Billboard Year-End for Top Black Artist and Top Black Album and a Grammy Award for Best Male R&B Vocal Performance, also for "Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough".[31] Jackson again won at the American Music Awards in 1981 for Favorite Soul/R&B Album and Favorite Soul/R&B Male Artist.[36] Despite its commercial success, Jackson felt Off the Wall should have made a much bigger impact, and was determined to exceed expectations with his next release.[37] In 1980, he secured the highest royalty rate in the music industry: 37 percent of wholesale album profit.[38]

That does it. The Pepsi ad burn was one of his first kick-off hoaxes 100%, with Hoefflin one of his accomplices.
Wiki:
Quote
Hoefflin has carried out cosmetic surgery on numerous celebrities and has been linked to Michael Jackson’s changing appearance since the early 1980s. Hoefflin grafted skin to Jackson’s scalp after the singer was burnt during the filming of a Pepsi commercial in 1984.[2] In 1979, Jackson had his first rhinoplasty after breaking his nose during a complex dance routine. However, the surgery was not a complete success, and Jackson complained of breathing difficulties that would affect his career. He was referred to Dr. Hoefflin, who performed Jackson's second rhinoplasty.

Quote
Klein:  Historically the records firmly show Michael Jackson was addicted to Propofol by Steve Hoefflin. In 2003 Michael made a cease and desist order against Hoefflin.
http://d.hatena.ne.jp/strangerinmoscow/20111028/1319790251

It's no accident this little tidbit was revealed only now! :icon_lol:
 :michael_jackson-1135:
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: bec on May 21, 2013, 10:38:14 PM
That's a little too coincidental for me. Yes, fits right in. Thanks Andrea.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: MJonmind on May 22, 2013, 03:11:24 AM
And speaking of doctors in on the hoax, Klein has to be in too. Did you guys read the wow story posted by Gr33sian?
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forum/index.php/topic,23839.msg441221.html#msg441221
http://www.chinesedemocracy.com/forum/index.php?topic=44280.0
I'll bet the reason Arnie didn't get paid for doing all that 'major' facial reconstruction was because he never did any! lol
 :michael-jackson:
If you compare MJ's pics from around the 2005 trial days and TII, he looks pretty much the same--awesome!
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: curls on May 22, 2013, 03:12:02 AM

Say MJ DID hoax the world and faked the Pepsi burn, hoaxing Pepsi in the process. Say Pepsi freaked out because they thought it was real. Say they would be suspicious if MJ did NOT have a grievance about it. Say MJ said "no really, it's alright, but to prove it's alright, and I'm not going to come back n sue you later, how about you donate some money to a children's hospital and we will call it good? Here, my PR department will spin it for the press and you guys will come out of it looking like heros... Pepsi agrees, everyone wins.

Thanks for coming back to this bec. I was with you till the paragraph above! To me still, it's fraud!  In that scenario you outline, everyone most certainly doesn't win. Pepsi were 'relieved' of 1.5million on a lie or put another way MJ gained 1.5million by deception. A court case, or lack of one, doesn't mean a crime wasn't committed, just that you were never found out or it never got to court.

But......  like you, I don't believe MJ goes around committing crimes. So the only explanation my imagination can come up with IF the Pepsi accident was a hoax, is that Pepsi were in on it too and either agreed, behind the scenes, in a scenario similar to the one you put forward, to donate the money, or it was MJ's money all along.

Like this maybe: MJ in secret to top Pepsi exec: " I want to donate some money to a Burns Unit but because I like a bit of drama and attention, how about we pretend I get burnt doing this commercial and then instead of suing you I get you to (pretend to) donate (my) money? Won't cost you anything, financially or in reputation, we have a bit of fun. Everyone wins!"

Similarly, how about:  MJ in secret to top AEG exec: " I want to build a Children's Hospital but because I like a bit of drama and attention, how about we pretend I die preparing for these concerts and then I get my mother to sue you and you (pretend to) pay her billions but it's really my money? After a while we'll come clean! Won't cost you anything, financially or in reputation, we have a bit of fun. Everyone (children especially) wins!"
 
That's my brain workout for the morning! Love you bec!


Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: MJonmind on May 22, 2013, 03:54:35 AM
Curls
Quote
Like this maybe: MJ in secret to top Pepsi exec: " I want to donate some money to a Burns Unit but because I like a bit of drama and attention, how about we pretend I get burnt doing this commercial and then instead of suing you I get you to (pretend) to donate (my) money? Won't cost you anything, financially or in reputation, we have a bit of fun. Everyone wins!"

Similarly, how about:  MJ in secret to top AEG exec: " I want to build a Children's Hospital but because I like a bit of drama and attention, how about we pretend I die preparing for these concerts and then I get my mother to sue you and you (pretend to) pay her billions but it's really my money? After a while we'll come clean! Won't cost you anything, financially or in reputation, we have a bit of fun. Everyone (children especially) wins!"
Both scenarios brilliant! lol And I've already guessed that MJ has way more than a couple of billion. He told Bashir in 2003 that he had around 2 billion, probably being well under the actual amount, and that's 10 years ago. They talk about the lawsuit being for 40 billion in that's what MJ would be earning had he lived. Perhaps MJ is really saying 40 B is what he actually has, albeit cryptically!
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: sweetsunsetwithMJ on May 22, 2013, 06:14:26 AM
Bec:

Quote
But wrongful death is different. IF it's real court, then KJ REALLY IS suing AEG for a whole bunch of money KNOWING that her son is not dead, wrongful or otherwise. That's fraud. Period. We know that court is really going on right now and there's simply two explanations for that. ONE: KJ really is suing for wrongful death of a live MJ knowing he is not actually dead or TWO: court is being staged.

What if KJ is suing AEG for wrongful death because Michael is dead for the world and it can't be called otherwise but if KJ finally wins (because I do think this trial is real and not staged) and it turns out that Michael is alive (as we know but not the rest of the world) and the wrongful death term become "wrongful death attempt"?? that wouldn't be fraud.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: sweetsunsetwithMJ on May 22, 2013, 06:36:32 AM

Say MJ DID hoax the world and faked the Pepsi burn, hoaxing Pepsi in the process. Say Pepsi freaked out because they thought it was real. Say they would be suspicious if MJ did NOT have a grievance about it. Say MJ said "no really, it's alright, but to prove it's alright, and I'm not going to come back n sue you later, how about you donate some money to a children's hospital and we will call it good? Here, my PR department will spin it for the press and you guys will come out of it looking like heros... Pepsi agrees, everyone wins.

Thanks for coming back to this bec. I was with you till the paragraph above! To me still, it's fraud!  In that scenario you outline, everyone most certainly doesn't win. Pepsi were 'relieved' of 1.5million on a lie or put another way MJ gained 1.5million by deception. A court case, or lack of one, doesn't mean a crime wasn't committed, just that you were never found out or it never got to court.

But......  like you, I don't believe MJ goes around committing crimes. So the only explanation my imagination can come up with IF the Pepsi accident was a hoax, is that Pepsi were in on it too and either agreed, behind the scenes, in a scenario similar to the one you put forward, to donate the money, or it was MJ's money all along.

Like this maybe: MJ in secret to top Pepsi exec: " I want to donate some money to a Burns Unit but because I like a bit of drama and attention, how about we pretend I get burnt doing this commercial and then instead of suing you I get you to (pretend to) donate (my) money? Won't cost you anything, financially or in reputation, we have a bit of fun. Everyone wins!"

Similarly, how about:  MJ in secret to top AEG exec: " I want to build a Children's Hospital but because I like a bit of drama and attention, how about we pretend I die preparing for these concerts and then I get my mother to sue you and you (pretend to) pay her billions but it's really my money? After a while we'll come clean! Won't cost you anything, financially or in reputation, we have a bit of fun. Everyone (children especially) wins!"
 
That's my brain workout for the morning! Love you bec!

Pepsi has to be in on it, after the accident Pepsi still sponsored all MJ's concerts, at the beginning of the hoax Pepsi burn vid was released + Dave Dave in LK (burn victim benefited by MJ after Pepsi burn) + special Pepsi edition featuring MJ I am alive ➡ http://vigilantcitizen.com/latestnews/michael-jackson-to-be-ressurected-on-a-billion-pepsi-cans/
Isn't that enough proof to believe Pepsi is in on it and that the accident "might" have been staged??
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: bec on May 22, 2013, 11:50:05 AM
For me, that's not enough to suggest that Pepsi was in on it. I would need more.

I don't think there's any such thing as "wrongful death attempt".
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: sweetsunsetwithMJ on May 22, 2013, 07:02:13 PM
For me, that's not enough to suggest that Pepsi was in on it. I would need more.

I don't think there's any such thing as "wrongful death attempt".

Well maybe I didn't explain myself correctly, the fact that Pepsi burn might be staged doesn't imply that Pepsi has to be in on it but Michael might have used this trade mark to make us think about the possibility that Pepsi burn might have been staged, the Pepsi cans were a big shoutout IMO, which is your theory about it??

Here in Spain does exist "wrongful death attempt" when somebody tries unsuccessfully to kill a person , it's like AEG knowing Michael was in a bad condition however they asked him to do many more concerts and even hired an unsuitable Doctor who wasn't able to save his life, Michael escaped death in this case that's why we can call it "death attempt".
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: suspicious mind on May 22, 2013, 09:31:46 PM
hummm so according to american dream michael wasn't that hip on the motown thing , but he made a deal with gordy . i appear with my brothers in exchange for opportunity to strut my stuff alone.  perhaps the same kind of thing went on with pepsi and perhaps even aeg. but looking at it all this way what are we to consider about the bridge fall that could look like the cause for some more of his pains?
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: bonnie2013 on May 22, 2013, 09:37:24 PM
For me, that's not enough to suggest that Pepsi was in on it. I would need more.

I don't think there's any such thing as "wrongful death attempt".

Well maybe I didn't explain myself correctly, the fact that Pepsi burn might be staged doesn't imply that Pepsi has to be in on it but Michael might have used this trade mark to make us think about the possibility that Pepsi burn might have been staged, the Pepsi cans were a big shoutout IMO, which is your theory about it??

Here in Spain does exist "wrongful death attempt" when somebody tries unsuccessfully to kill a person , it's like AEG knowing Michael was in a bad condition however they asked him to do many more concerts and even hired an unsuitable Doctor who wasn't able to save his life, Michael escaped death in this case that's why we can call it "death attempt".

Attempted murder exists... we you plan and attempt to kill someone and they survive. However, a manslaughter charge is when you kill someone w/o planning to do so. I don't believe than an Attempted Manslaughter charge exists.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: bec on May 22, 2013, 11:28:59 PM
Yes but not in civil court. That's a criminal case that a state prosecutor would bring, like in Murray's trial, not for Ms. Katherine Jackson to bring. To my knowledge, in the US you cannot sue for attempted murder. If the DA doesn't believe it is a criminal matter, then no one gets charged, no one goes to court because officially there was no attempted murder. In any case KJ is suing AEG for wrongful death, not wrongful attempted death, and the subject of the wrongful death being alleged is not dead. So that's a huge conundrum. 
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: MJonmind on May 23, 2013, 03:18:13 AM
Suspicious, I've also been thinking about the bridge 'accident'. KF has made a huge deal about it which is suspicous right there, since she's been a HUGE liar from the get-go, hoax-wise. Apparently MJ was upset that Kenny Ortega hadn't apologized for it and all this time MJ apparently wished he would. She said he finally 'sort of' apologized for it at TII rehearsals. Okay I believe KO is in on the hoax, because he has given many hoaxy clues such as at the memorial, "he was right here a week ago" (wrong), the Captain Hook quote https://twitter.com/KennyOrtegaBlog/status/3684282550 , and at the CM trial saying MJ was going to do his disappearing from the bed act the next day after his death.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: sweetsunsetwithMJ on May 23, 2013, 08:47:37 AM
For me, that's not enough to suggest that Pepsi was in on it. I would need more.

I don't think there's any such thing as "wrongful death attempt".

Well maybe I didn't explain myself correctly, the fact that Pepsi burn might be staged doesn't imply that Pepsi has to be in on it but Michael might have used this trade mark to make us think about the possibility that Pepsi burn might have been staged, the Pepsi cans were a big shoutout IMO, which is your theory about it??

Here in Spain does exist "wrongful death attempt" when somebody tries unsuccessfully to kill a person , it's like AEG knowing Michael was in a bad condition however they asked him to do many more concerts and even hired an unsuitable Doctor who wasn't able to save his life, Michael escaped death in this case that's why we can call it "death attempt".

Attempted murder exists... we you plan and attempt to kill someone and they survive. However, a manslaughter charge is when you kill someone w/o planning to do so. I don't believe than an Attempted Manslaughter charge exists.

The word "wrongful = illegal" doesn't change the sense of the "attempted murder" but I leave it there I am not a professional in the legal terms.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: sweetsunsetwithMJ on May 23, 2013, 08:56:17 AM
Suspicious, I've also been thinking about the bridge 'accident'. KF has made a huge deal about it which is suspicous right there, since she's been a HUGE liar from the get-go, hoax-wise. Apparently MJ was upset that Kenny Ortega hadn't apologized for it and all this time MJ apparently wished he would. She said he finally 'sort of' apologized for it at TII rehearsals. Okay I believe KO is in on the hoax, because he has given many hoaxy clues such as at the memorial, "he was right here a week ago" (wrong), the Captain Hook quote https://twitter.com/KennyOrtegaBlog/status/3684282550 , and at the CM trial saying MJ was going to do his disappearing from the bed act the next day after his death.
 
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Smee: Captain, the ice is melting, the sun is out and the flowers are all in bloom  Captain Hook: He's back

Yesterday I was thinking about the word "Lundon's bridge" and I was thinking about this:

London (London O2 Arena) = Lundon.
Jackson (Jermaine) = Jacksun
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: suspicious mind on May 23, 2013, 12:25:56 PM
Suspicious, I've also been thinking about the bridge 'accident'. KF has made a huge deal about it which is suspicous right there, since she's been a HUGE liar from the get-go, hoax-wise. Apparently MJ was upset that Kenny Ortega hadn't apologized for it and all this time MJ apparently wished he would. She said he finally 'sort of' apologized for it at TII rehearsals. Okay I believe KO is in on the hoax, because he has given many hoaxy clues such as at the memorial, "he was right here a week ago" (wrong), the Captain Hook quote https://twitter.com/KennyOrtegaBlog/status/3684282550 , and at the CM trial saying MJ was going to do his disappearing from the bed act the next day after his death.

i cannot wrap my head around how the stage falling can be kenny's responsibility . isn't that some kind of what engineering thing. like the lights and the the pop up toaster thinggy ? and that bed thing . if he was waiting for a prop for that , to my mind would have been a special bed. could this account for why some people saw one thing and some saw another. ( thinking of the three stooges strapped to the spinning table lol)
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: Thriller4ever on May 23, 2013, 01:20:20 PM
I don't think Karen is in the hoax actively. she said she didn't want to be a part of lie while retouching MJ and imo explains everything. she definitely knows MJ's alive, and she's maintaining that he's dead...but it's dormant.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: MJonmind on May 23, 2013, 02:20:00 PM
Didn't want to lie while retouching what?  :icon_lol:
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: Thriller4ever on May 23, 2013, 02:35:30 PM
Didn't want to lie while retouching what?  :icon_lol:

oopsie!  :icon_lol:
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: suspicious mind on May 23, 2013, 02:50:49 PM
retouching after the fact would be with film wouldn't it? is she a woman of more talents than hair and makeup?  also did the credits specify she was doing michaels makeup or just in general and i assume someone had to make up this stunt double.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: curls on May 23, 2013, 03:23:52 PM
Not sure if I'm understanding you correctly suspicious, but I too thought this 'retouching' was referring to editing of the TII film, not the body in the coffin, and therefore haven't been understanding why Karen would be asked to be involved with this.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: MJonmind on May 23, 2013, 04:33:40 PM
I thought she was only critical of the retouching of MJ in TII film, but not willing to retouch MJ in coffin, although she still 'did' his make-up and hair for 9 hours for nobody to see, as not even Joe saw him ("I'll let you know Larry!"). Can anyone remember, did Katherine say she didn't want to look at MJ in the coffin because it was too painful? Am I imagining that?
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: ShyBleuEyes on May 23, 2013, 05:00:18 PM
Not sure if I'm understanding you correctly suspicious, but I too thought this 'retouching' was referring to editing of the TII film, not the body in the coffin, and therefore haven't been understanding why Karen would be asked to be involved with this.

I also understand the retouching was for TII.
I have worked for a company who did retouching, and i can see how she could help with retouching, by telling and give advice how Mj liked to look at pics or on screen, she could give advice while others do the actual retouching.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: marumjj on May 23, 2013, 05:07:29 PM
I seem to recall that KJ did not attend to deposit the coffin in the mausoleum nor was visiting, his supposed grave in Forest Lawn.
Title: Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
Post by: suspicious mind on May 23, 2013, 05:09:56 PM
Not sure if I'm understanding you correctly suspicious, but I too thought this 'retouching' was referring to editing of the TII film, not the body in the coffin, and therefore haven't been understanding why Karen would be asked to be involved with this.
there ya go , i think you put it more clear than me.
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