Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators

Hoax Investigation => General Hoax Investigation => Revisiting Old Stuff => Topic started by: MJhunny on January 08, 2013, 03:05:51 PM

Title: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: MJhunny on January 08, 2013, 03:05:51 PM
i'm thinking the four years to get it right statement by MJ in This is it has to do with exactly what he was telling us in that context namely our duty to step up and do something before we completely ruin the planet for later generations (if we have'nt done so already)
This was what was in the news when Michael was in the planning stages of This Is It, and very likely what Michael meant when he reiterated that "we only have 4 years left to get it right or else it's irreversible".

In Jan 2009, a leading climatologist warned that the new president needed to lead the world in making significant changes to stop and reverse global warming...http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/jan/18/obama-climate-change ). Jim Hansen, one of the most prominent experts on climate change, was the one who said "we only have 4 years left". Hansen was not referring to the end of the world in 4 years, but rather to Obama's 4-year term as president. As carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere increase, global temperatures increase, melting the ice caps and causing sea levels to rise, which is predicted to reach devastating levels over the next hundred years. The urgency of Hansen's message is based on his contention that it is not just a proportional relationship between CO2 levels and rising temperatures, but that over time, the rate of rising temperatures will accelerate. He said, "We cannot now afford to put off change any longer. We have to get on a new path within this new administration. We have only four years left for Obama to set an example to the rest of the world. America must take the lead." 

So i don't think the four years has to do with his come back date.

Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: ~Souza~ on January 08, 2013, 03:41:38 PM
4 Years is the only time frame Michael HIMSELF gave. While everyone is being disappointed about other BAM dates passing by, they ignore that one line out of the horse's mouth. If there is a BAM, which I am sure there will be, then that's the biggest clue you can get.
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: MJhunny on January 08, 2013, 04:16:13 PM
not being one of the "everyone who's dissapointed" i just consider that MJ , aware person that he is, may have simply been pointing towards the climate change topic . He certainly did not say four years to get it right or i'm not coming back. The words came from his own mouth no doubt there , just doubt he was talking about a future come back schedule.
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: curls on January 08, 2013, 04:30:30 PM
I tend to agree with you MJhunny - looking at the whole quote, in context, 'we have 4 years to get it right, else it's irreversible the damage we've done' appears to refer more to the state of the planet than to any future hoax or comeback date, and this was very much in the news at that time.

Personally, (if I disregard anything TS may have said), I have not seen, read or heard any real indication, much less any real evidence, of a 'bam' date from anyone - and that's probably how it's meant to be!
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: ~Souza~ on January 08, 2013, 04:33:23 PM
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I tend to agree with you MJhunny - looking at the whole quote, in context, 'we have 4 years to get it right, else it's irreversible the damage we've done' appears to refer more to the state of the planet than to any future hoax or comeback date, and this was very much in the news at that time.

Personally, (if I disregard anything TS may have said), I have not seen, read or heard any real indication, much less any real evidence, of a 'bam' date from anyone - and that's probably how it's meant to be!

Everything indicates a comeback, anything I have seen so far.
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: curls on January 08, 2013, 04:40:46 PM
Oh yes, I don't doubt a comeback - I have simply given up trying to figure out when it might be, having realised that any dates I may have looked forward to in the past were based more on my personal hopes than any real evidence!
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Andrea on January 08, 2013, 05:17:57 PM
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Oh yes, I don't doubt a comeback - I have simply given up trying to figure out when it might be, having realised that any dates I may have looked forward to in the past were based more on my personal hopes than any real evidence!


Same.  I still believe in the comeback but I've given up on guessing BAM dates.  It's a distraction.  Key dates for hoaxy stuff are cool but I've now realized that relying on a particular date(s) is counter productive.


I really hope that when Michael said "we only have 4 years to get it right or else it's irreversible" he wasn't referring to us figuring it all out (the whats, whys, etc of his hoax) or he wasn't coming back. 
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Sunnie on January 08, 2013, 05:46:55 PM
The 4 years statement is perplex,i'm still trying to understand it in its entirety.I have a queston about BAM and i don't want to upset anyone especially those that contribute a vast amount of research on BAM dates but what is the purpose of creating clues for an event that is supposedly a surprise? So far all of the dates have been uncertain and amiss. I truly believe we aren't suppose to know when the BAM occurs or any clues leading up to it.
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Jowayria on January 08, 2013, 06:03:02 PM
Quote
"Everybody's doing a great job.
Let's continue
and believe and have faith.
Give me your all, your endurance, your patience, and your understanding.
But it's an adventure, it's a great adventure.
It's nothing to be nervous about.
They just want wonderful experiences, they want escapism.
We wanna take them places that they've never been before. We wanna show them talent like they've never seen before.
So give your all. And I love you all.
And we're a family. Just know that.
We're a family. That's right.
Amen.
We're putting love back into the world to remind the world that love is important.
Love is important. To love each other.
We're all one. That's the message.
And take care of the planet.
We have four years to get it right or else it's irreversible, the damage we've done.
So we have an important message to give. Okay? It's important.
But I thank you for your cooperationso far. Thank you. Big thank you. Blessings! Blessings to all."
~ Michael Jackson

I think we should look at the 4 years statement as a whole , because if we divide it according to what WE want it to mean , we will certainly get it wrong . Just like an idea , it must be looked upon as a unity .

In his statement , the first thing he asked for is "endurance " , coz he knew it would be hard for us to dedicate ourselves to the hoax , I guess . Refering to "us " by " they " , he played by our emotions making of us a one family that seeks the impossible ( escapism , great adventures ..) .

@MJhunny , I believe ur speculation to be right , coz right after that sentence when he stated that we only have 4 years to get it right , he mentioned the damage of which the planet suffers .. But he could be talking about anythings else ...

I always perceived it as a way to say " You guys only have four years to get everything about the hoax right , don't rush things , be patient , I know it'd be hard , but know that I love you and that we're all in this together , just like a family . We need to do this , we need to cure the planet from all the corruption , injustice , sufferings , and all of the wrongdoins , I love you and I am here with you "
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: ilovemjforever on January 08, 2013, 06:26:31 PM
I believe M.J s 4 year warning has a lot to do with the NWO and Obama's reelection/inauguration,the beast of Revelations will be revealed soon and Michael knew this.He wanted to warn the masses to get to know God  if you already have not,and stop putting your trust in the Media and to stop worshiping false idols.
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Adi on January 08, 2013, 08:07:41 PM
I don't think we are ever going to be able to get everything about the hoax right.

The hoax is buried and concealed under layer upon layer of subterfuge, illusion, fake insiders set to throw us off course and downright bullsh*t at times. I think we have done pretty well to figure out what we have so far...but when will we know that we "get it right"? I don't think we will...but that is just my opinion. Unless MJ miraculously comes back and tells us that we have lol.  So I don't know what MJ was referring to there in that speech. Everything I thought he may have been referring to didn't eventuate.

On a side note - I was watching This Is It last night for the 1st time in ages...mainly triggered by seeing this "Revisiting Old Stuff" thread and thought I'd go back and watch it again. Nothing really jumped out at me that I hadn't already seen or known about in the movie. But the movie does start showing the date April 15th 2009 when one of the dancers is talking to camera........and I wondered is it 4 years from then?

.........who knows.
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: guestfortheday on January 08, 2013, 10:37:47 PM
the many days pass by, the less is possibility MJ will be back if he is alive of course.
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on January 09, 2013, 12:34:43 AM
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not being one of the "everyone who's dissapointed" i just consider that MJ , aware person that he is, may have simply been pointing towards the climate change topic . He certainly did not say four years to get it right or i'm not coming back. The words came from his own mouth no doubt there , just doubt he was talking about a future come back schedule.

Just my opinion, but I feel that TII is full of colloquialisms. I dont beleive MJ here was talking about the environment or global warming. I honestly don't. It may appear that he is, but I believe he is talking about return. Just like BAM scene / reference, at the end of the movie. The scene is based on rehersal and figuring out the sequence of his act and then light go out and BAM. Is he talking about the LITERAL stage, and lights and bam illumination regarding turning to the audience in the concert? Or is that scene figurative for bam return / resurrection? Another example of this is FIST in ear, I don't believe he is talking about a literal fist in his ear, futhermore, I dont think he is actually referring to the audio equipment. I believe fist in ear (and I know others believe the same) to be a reference to something Michael doesnt agree with or like to hear or activity he is aware of that doesn't sit well for him. You know, Don't like it, don't like hearing it, makes me sick... "its like a fist in my ear" But on the surface it appears that MJ is talking about audio equipment, but is he really?

TII is full of scenes where MJ appears to be talking about one thing on the surface, but post knowledge of the hoax you see that he is really talking about something else. I think that the prayer 4 year scene fits into this category. Again, this is JMO, and I respect your opinion, but to me 4 year reference isn't about environment at all, its about bam.

Besides, who says, which aithority exactly, and based on what evidence, shows that the environmental damage actually IS irreversable in 4 years time???

Meanwhile, another 4 year reference.... Was cruising in my car listening to Bad 25, Bad remix. In specific the latino rap at the end, where artist raps "In FOUR YEARS catch me with a billion doing that moonwalk" - yeah it just made me smile! As much as I love the song, and love the remix and it made me smile, really, if you stop and think about it, it was said and put into the audio for a reason.

To me, 4 years is a clear bam indication from MJ himself. For me (again JMO) the question is not WHAT he is referring to with the 4 yr reference, its WHEN he is referring to?

Four years from filming that scene? Four years from DOD? Four years from release of TII? Four years after CM is convicted? and so forth...

Bring it on!
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on January 09, 2013, 12:36:28 AM
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I believe M.J s 4 year warning has a lot to do with the NWO and Obama's reelection/inauguration,the beast of Revelations will be revealed soon and Michael knew this.He wanted to warn the masses to get to know God if you already have not,and stop putting your trust in the Media and to stop worshiping false idols.


Jmo but the beasts of revelation have been revealed.
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: MJhunny on January 09, 2013, 01:54:08 AM
By authority i hope you dont mean government because we cant say on one topic oh you cant trust anything they say yet on another need to hear it coming from them or else not trust it. In this particular instance the authority on the subject of climate change would be jim hansen but what he has to say on the matter gets beaten down by the government because they dont like anyone interfering whilst they scratch the backs of their financers and vice versa.    Regarding looking at the statement by mj in its whole to me he is asking his dancers and crew for their endurance ,patience, telling them that the public needs escapism from this world we live in , from their everyday lives and problems and that he and his dancers are there to provide this escape if only for one evening during a concert.  Everything else said regarding environment in that statement is to me mj passionately defending his love for the world and its inhabitants, like they, they who it starts with us because he is sure as hell familiar with the fact that the government wont do anything to help if it does not help themselves to be richer and more powerful first.
Ive been down the road of dissecting stuff from TII not in least the fist in ear statement and the burning of jackets which to me symbolized dust jakets or book covers  thus books being burned thus our knowledge being taken from us
But i still believe the four year or else its irreversible statement has everything to do with what jim hansen said about obama s four year term at that time.
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on January 09, 2013, 02:25:45 AM
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By authority i hope you dont mean government because we cant say on one topic oh you cant trust anything they say yet on another need to hear it coming from them or else not trust it.

I more meant "by what authority" as an expression, most def not the authorities, as in the Government  :icon_e_wink:

To answer your question, dunno, I guess, Experts in the field, independent researchers, scientists, etc etc.


Quote
Regarding looking at the statement by mj in its whole to me he is asking his dancers and crew for their endurance ,patience, telling them that the public needs escapism from this world we live in , from their everyday lives and problems and that he and his dancers are there to provide this escape if only for one evening during a concert.  Everything else said regarding environment in that statement is to me mj passionately defending his love for the world and its inhabitants


I guess its subjective, which I respect there are different perceptions and respect that you hear something else. I hear him saying, the public needs escapism, lets provide them the escapism via the show (which is really the hoax) and it also opens their eyes to the problems (mainstream media and the secrecy / lies etc) and we have got four years to teach them a lesson / show them, how the media can report falsehoods, by creating the biggest falsehood ourselves...

But again, jmo.

Quote
Ive been down the road of dissecting stuff from TII not in least the fist in ear statement and the burning of jackets which to me symbolized dust jakets or book covers


I respect the time you have been here. I see you have been here for 3 years compared to my 1.5. And I know many of these conversations have been had many a time prior to me and other newbs, getting here. I feel so blessed that people like yourself and souza are bringing subjects like this back up for discussion. Its great.

I guess time will tell and answer many questions / provide answers to many a (friendly) debate - definitely exciting times.

Thanks for opening the thread  :icon_e_wink:
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: MJonmind on January 09, 2013, 06:07:00 AM
I guess it's double, triple or more meanings for the 4 years. I haven't a clue anymore.  MJ's definitely talking about caring for the planet.  But as far as all the "global warming" talk, I suspect it is connected with the NWO agenda of TPTB?
Quote
["EARTH SONG" PLAYING]

MICHAEL [ON RECORDING]: I respect
the secrets and magic of nature.
That's why it makes me so angry when
I see these things that are happening,
that every second, I hear, the size of a
football field is torn down in the Amazon.
I mean, that kind of stuff
really bothers me.
That's why I write these
kinds of songs, you know.
It gives some sense of awareness
and awakening and hope to people.
I love the planet.
I love trees. I have this thing for trees
and the colors and changing of leaves.
I love it.
And I respect those kind of things.

(Earth song lyrics)
MICHAEL [ON RECORDING]: I really
feel that nature is trying so hard
to compensate for man's
mismanagement of the planet.
Because the planet is sick.
Like a fever.
If we don't fix it now,
it's at the point of no return.
This is our last chance
to fix this problem that we have,
where it's like a runaway train
and the time has come.
This is it.
I love you.
That'll be the ending
of this under the words.
Oooh

 
MICHAEL [ON RECORDING]: People are always saying,
"They'll take care of it. The government'll...
Don't worry. They'll..."
"They" who? It starts with us. It's us.
Or else it'll never be done.
Guys, can I have
the lighting crew?
Travis?
MAN: Yeah!
First of all, Michael will be
coming on from offstage,
and he's got, like,
an attaché case.
And right here, Michael,
you call it here.
So now it comes here. So it's a
light that is moving on his command.
Absolutely.
Right? Then when he moves forward,
he's in that light.
Yeah.
He's in that light.
But I wanna be able to step
into the pool once I'm fully dressed.
So that... So after he does this...
Why don't you do this, Michael?
After you go like this
and you send that down,
a gesture and a pool of light
comes on.
Now a pool of light comes on
down here,
wherever his light is,
MAN: Mm-hm. Yeah.
And the pool of light comes on and
now he'll walk into it, center stage.
And now he'll start.

(Billie Jean)
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: suspicious mind on January 09, 2013, 06:51:03 AM
umm we have been given glimpses into how rehearsals have been in the past , to a degree. we have seen and it has been suggested that their were prayer / pep rally  sessions just prior to entering the stage. as near as i can figure with these things they did not formerly seem to be this intense nor led by michael ( as far as any prayer). still bugs the hell outta me that kenny behaved as though he was expecting actual prayer and we got this speach. and it seemed really choppy to me. and the whole scene was dark enough that i don't neccessarly feel like the words we heard had to be what were being spoken at the time. just sayin.

now as far as hanging in there and waiting , perhaps there will never be a bam but i still can't shake the idea that there is more to come from murray.
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: taty_2crazy on January 09, 2013, 10:03:58 AM
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Oh yes, I don't doubt a comeback - I have simply given up trying to figure out when it might be, having realised that any dates I may have looked forward to in the past were based more on my personal hopes than any real evidence!

I think the same,we just have to give him time, he will know when he´s read for a comeback. Until then KEEP THE FAITH. :icon_e_wink:
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: heartofgold on January 09, 2013, 10:19:50 AM
Well like Jermaine said, This is it, but it's not it, the best is yet to come. This is not the final curtain call. These are his words. We know now that we shouldn't focus on a specific date which will not happen, let the man come out when he feels like it. We need to stop being selfish, and think of Michael Jackson himself.  
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Jowayria on January 09, 2013, 03:51:48 PM
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Well like Jermaine said, This is it, but it's not it, the best is yet to come. This is not the final curtain call. These are his words. We know now that we shouldn't focus on a specific date which will not happen, let the man come out when he feels like it. We need to stop being selfish, and think of Michael Jackson himself.

There's no doubt that the BAM will happen when and how Michael wants it  to happen , but I don't find it selfish of us to try to predict a date ... I mean we don't just wake up and think " let me assume that the Bam will happen in a few days " . Our predictions ( or assumptions ) are actually triggered by many things ( the family's tweets , TMZ posts , hoaxy stuff that just don't add up , numerology ..) . It is true that we'll never guess Bamsday because Michael is all about surprises just like Jermaine said , but I bet that Michael is behind all of our predictions .. He wants us to questions things , to be deceived by our own theories and  to be confused .
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on January 09, 2013, 07:09:08 PM
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Well like Jermaine said, This is it, but it's not it, the best is yet to come. This is not the final curtain call. These are his words. We know now that we shouldn't focus on a specific date which will not happen, let the man come out when he feels like it. We need to stop being selfish, and think of Michael Jackson himself.

There's no doubt that the BAM will happen when and how Michael wants it  to happen , but I don't find it selfish of us to try to predict a date ... I mean we don't just wake up and think " let me assume that the Bam will happen in a few days " . Our predictions ( or assumptions ) are actually triggered by many things ( the family's tweets , TMZ posts , hoaxy stuff that just don't add up , numerology ..) . It is true that we'll never guess Bamsday because Michael is all about surprises just like Jermaine said , but I bet that Michael is behind all of our predictions .. He wants us to questions things , to be deceived by our own theories and  to be confused .

Agree with you. I don't think its selfish. We are simply interpreting what we think he means by "four years" and when it will happen. I am not desperate for him to "come back" and I really mean that. I am more enthralled with the adventure and deciphering of the hoax. And I anticipate not the 'return of MJ - as a fan and out of a desperate NEED to have him back' which we all too often see amongst hoaxers, rather I anticipate his return as I am keen to see the impact his return has on the media and the world in general.

He WILL come when he is ready. But til then its a guessing game. And considering "he is the one" who is dropping clues everywhere, consider it a personal invitation from him to 'guess' and 'decipher' and 'solve' the clues and mysteries of this hoax that he himself is giving.

He is inviting us to this guessing game. TII is a perfect example. So it's not selfish at all.

JMO
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: peruvit on January 09, 2013, 08:10:30 PM
I remember watching a video that said TII rehearsals and taping began in 2008 which would explain the "4 Years" statement.
However im not entirely sure on that.
But does anyone know when the "official" rehearsals started...like before or after the 02 announcements?
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Thriller4ever on January 09, 2013, 11:06:44 PM
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Oh yes, I don't doubt a comeback - I have simply given up trying to figure out when it might be, having realised that any dates I may have looked forward to in the past were based more on my personal hopes than any real evidence!

 :bearhug:


I don't know whether the following is off-top or not, but i found it interesting.

From Wikipedia

Quote
On 20 May 2009, it was announced that the first concert would be pushed back by eight days to 16 July, and three other July dates would be rescheduled for March 2010. AEG Live stated that the delay was necessary because more time was needed to prepare, mainly for dress rehearsals.
{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jackson's_This_Is_It (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jackson's_This_Is_It)}

16 July 1988 - Michael performed the Bad concert before Princess Di and Prince Charles. Now it's a DVD.

'This is it' was released in the dates of October 28-30 and November 1, 2009 ....  So we can't really say what the starting point of '4 years' is.

Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: blankie on January 10, 2013, 05:17:51 AM
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Oh yes, I don't doubt a comeback - I have simply given up trying to figure out when it might be, having realised that any dates I may have looked forward to in the past were based more on my personal hopes than any real evidence!


Same.  I still believe in the comeback but I've given up on guessing BAM dates.  It's a distraction.  Key dates for hoaxy stuff are cool but I've now realized that relying on a particular date(s) is counter productive.


I really hope that when Michael said "we only have 4 years to get it right or else it's irreversible" he wasn't referring to us figuring it all out (the whats, whys, etc of his hoax) or he wasn't coming back.


Agree.
But I think that the most important thing now is that Mike feel us  close to him.
Waiting for L.O.V.E. with L.O.V.E. as we have done from June 25 to today.    :icon_razz: :moonwalk_:
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: MJonmind on January 10, 2013, 05:25:10 AM
You're so right Blankie!  Hope he always feels our steady love and support.

TS  from Silencing the Critics, Sept. 10, 2010
Quote
Yes, if you don’t use inclusive it doesn’t work.  But it CAN’T POSSIBLY work with BOTH inclusive AND standard reckoning; so you MUST pick one of the two, if you are planning it out.  And inclusive is the BETTER of the two options: because it is Biblical, and most widely known in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus!  Also MJ used inclusive when he said “four more years” in the spring of 2009; normally that would end in 2013—but inclusive is 2009 (year one), 2010 (year two), 2011 (year three), and 2012(year four).
So since inclusive didn't work, we'll have to use standard, according to him--spring when the rehearsals were.  And of course that doesn't rule out Oct. 28, which would be when we heard it.
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Andrea on January 10, 2013, 08:06:47 AM
MJonmind:
Quote
TS  from Silencing the Critics, Sept. 10, 2010
Quote
Yes, if you don’t use inclusive it doesn’t work.  But it CAN’T POSSIBLY work with BOTH inclusive AND standard reckoning; so you MUST pick one of the two, if you are planning it out.  And inclusive is the BETTER of the two options: because it is Biblical, and most widely known in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus!  Also MJ used inclusive when he said “four more years” in the spring of 2009; normally that would end in 2013—but inclusive is 2009 (year one), 2010 (year two), 2011 (year three), and 2012(year four).

So since inclusive didn't work, we'll have to use standard, according to him--spring when the rehearsals were.  And of course that doesn't rule out Oct. 28, which would be when we heard it.


Your comment reminded me of TS' Sign 6, The End Comes Suddenly, when he spoke about the accession year method.  If a king (MJ) died in the middle of the year (June 25), the period to the end of that year would be called the accession year, or year zero.  So Year 1 would start at the following new year (2010).  Year 2 is 2011, year 3 is 2012 and year 4 would be 2013.  TS never said anything about MJ and June 25 when he was talking about this method but that's what I gathered from it, since I tend to relate his Signs to the hoax.

http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forum/index.php/topic,23454.0.html
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: julia142 on January 10, 2013, 08:34:52 AM
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not being one of the "everyone who's dissapointed" i just consider that MJ , aware person that he is, may have simply been pointing towards the climate change topic . He certainly did not say four years to get it right or i'm not coming back. The words came from his own mouth no doubt there , just doubt he was talking about a future come back schedule.

Just my opinion, but I feel that TII is full of colloquialisms. I dont beleive MJ here was talking about the environment or global warming. I honestly don't. It may appear that he is, but I believe he is talking about return. Just like BAM scene / reference, at the end of the movie. The scene is based on rehersal and figuring out the sequence of his act and then light go out and BAM. Is he talking about the LITERAL stage, and lights and bam illumination regarding turning to the audience in the concert? Or is that scene figurative for bam return / resurrection? Another example of this is FIST in ear, I don't believe he is talking about a literal fist in his ear, futhermore, I dont think he is actually referring to the audio equipment. I believe fist in ear (and I know others believe the same) to be a reference to something Michael doesnt agree with or like to hear or activity he is aware of that doesn't sit well for him. You know, Don't like it, don't like hearing it, makes me sick... "its like a fist in my ear" But on the surface it appears that MJ is talking about audio equipment, but is he really?

TII is full of scenes where MJ appears to be talking about one thing on the surface, but post knowledge of the hoax you see that he is really talking about something else. I think that the prayer 4 year scene fits into this category. Again, this is JMO, and I respect your opinion, but to me 4 year reference isn't about environment at all, its about bam.

Besides, who says, which aithority exactly, and based on what evidence, shows that the environmental damage actually IS irreversable in 4 years time???

Meanwhile, another 4 year reference.... Was cruising in my car listening to Bad 25, Bad remix. In specific the latino rap at the end, where artist raps "In FOUR YEARS catch me with a billion doing that moonwalk" - yeah it just made me smile! As much as I love the song, and love the remix and it made me smile, really, if you stop and think about it, it was said and put into the audio for a reason.

To me, 4 years is a clear bam indication from MJ himself. For me (again JMO) the question is not WHAT he is referring to with the 4 yr reference, its WHEN he is referring to?

Four years from filming that scene? Four years from DOD? Four years from release of TII? Four years after CM is convicted? and so forth...

Bring it on!

Good catch!  :th_bravo:

And don't forget also another 4 years, Michael always release an album every four years, so he always come back every 4 years! Maybe we should look at the exact amount of time between his album, like for instance, number of days between Off the wall and Thriller, Thriller to Bad, Bad to Dangerous... etc... ????
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: gwynned on January 10, 2013, 11:45:46 AM
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I believe M.J s 4 year warning has a lot to do with the NWO and Obama's reelection/inauguration,the beast of Revelations will be revealed soon and Michael knew this.He wanted to warn the masses to get to know God  if you already have not,and stop putting your trust in the Media and to stop worshiping false idols.

I'm not sure about the rest, but pretty sure This has something to do with Obama, especially given the ad at the beginning of This Is It and Paris' tweets, etc. 

But my question is, What IS the BAM.  Does BAM = Comeback, or might it be something else either entirely or much larger of which the Comeback is an essential part.
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: MJhunny on January 10, 2013, 12:45:20 PM
Well gwynned i ve seen you ask bout bam =comeback a few times already.  Don't believe it was actually stated anywhere  that that would be the case, but it just seems logical that with a " bam " a comeback is meant i suppose!
Unless an actual physical bam depends on certain wrongs being righted, which has not been the case so far has it.

Meanwhile the official mj facebook page latest post was interesting, still getting used to working with this i pad thingy so not yet up to copying and pasting but wishfully thinking it has to do with this thread.
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: bec on January 10, 2013, 12:53:16 PM
Bam=comeback and any other interpretation is grasping at straws.
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: gwynned on January 10, 2013, 12:57:19 PM
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Well gwynned i ve seen you ask bout bam =comeback a few times already.  Don't believe it was actually stated anywhere  that that would be the case, but it just seems logical that with a " bam " a comeback is meant i suppose!
Unless an actual physical bam depends on certain wrongs being righted, which has not been the case so far has it.

Meanwhile the official mj facebook page latest post was interesting, still getting used to working with this i pad thingy so not yet up to copying and pasting but wishfully thinking it has to do with this thread.

Actually, I am seeing it.  We all know Michael's feeling about the media and I have noticed some high profile media folks taking a beating.  Most humorously, lately, is Al Roker admitting on national TV that he pooped in his pants.

Here he is on the Daily Show in the feature interestingly titled:  Moment of Zen

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-january-8-2013/moment-of-zen---al-roker-s-accident

Can't help but think of V for Vendetta and his sWORDs.....is Michael's only weapon now their WORDs?
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: MJonmind on January 10, 2013, 02:17:00 PM
Andrea
Quote
Your comment reminded me of TS' Sign 6, The End Comes Suddenly, when he spoke about the accession year method.  If a king (MJ) died in the middle of the year (June 25), the period to the end of that year would be called the accession year, or year zero.  So Year 1 would start at the following new year (2010).  Year 2 is 2011, year 3 is 2012 and year 4 would be 2013.  TS never said anything about MJ and June 25 when he was talking about this method but that's what I gathered from it, since I tend to relate his Signs to the hoax.
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forum/index.php/topic,23454.0.html
I really think we have not taken into enough consideration some of the alternative thinking that TS would present, weighing them as to logic, evidences for each approach, and that they were a methodology for him burying truth in the midst of lies, to cover his tracks and perhaps prevent the wrong people (enemies) from deciphering the truth.

So yes, he said Bam before 2013, but elsewhere he said only after the Elisa and Murray cases were finished.

TS: Silencing the Critics, Sept.10, 2010.
Quote
"Eliza herself knows that there can be delays, when you are dealing with court cases.  She said the following: “Of course, any time that you deal with the legal system, you cannot predict a time frame, can you?” {http://http://www.elvisinfonet.com/interview_elizapresley1.htm}.

Like everyone else involved in the MJ and Elvis hoaxes, I can’t give any certain dates for bam; I can only give possibilities.  And at this point, don’t be too surprised if nothing major happens until after Eliza and/or Murray cases are done.
 There are some interesting dates coming up: 10-10-10, Halloween, and November 5 (V for Vendetta); but as always, don’t put too much on any particular date.

What we do know for sure is that: “It’s all going to come out; it’s all going to unfold.” {http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd0SoaOe-cs}.  This is what Jermaine said back in February, 2010; and it was stated in the context of the “airport” slip, so we know he meant the hoax is all going to come out {http://http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=7010}.

Jermaine also reiterated this again on Larry King interview in June, 2010.  “[Larry:] Do you think we’ll ever find out the whole story?  [Jermaine:] Yes!  Yes!  You know why, because his [MJ’s] family is not going to let it not happen. ... We’re going to do everything in our power as a family to make sure the world knows what really happened.” {http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi3OiJMjilg}.

Yes, there have been delays; and as time passes, more members may leave this forum (and many have left already).  But don’t worry too much; they will all come rushing back right after bamsday—along with thousands and thousands of new members."
We may have taken the the 'failed' Bam date way too seriously, and TS caught us not paying enough attention to his previous words.  Just like Bible prophecy can't be interpreted by one or two verses but from the whole collective message from the many parts in the various books, as they speak in unison of complex meaning.

Does anyone know if the Eliza Presley case is completely killed, or is there hope for further action?

Scorpionchik
Quote
am not going to read the whole thing for sure. The only words caught my eyes are  THE END COMES SUDDENLY and THE UNFAITHFUL WILL BE CAUGHT BY SURPRISE, & SUMMER IS NEAR.
IMO, this means someone WAS UNFAITHFUL that led to hoax the death and MJ will be back in summer of 2013 to 'take over' (4 years to make it right).  Sounds like what I thought. Will see.
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forum/index.php/topic,23454.25.html

Julia142
Quote
And don't forget also another 4 years, Michael always release an album every four years, so he always come back every 4 years! Maybe we should look at the exact amount of time between his album, like for instance, number of days between Off the wall and Thriller, Thriller to Bad, Bad to Dangerous... etc...  ?

I think this is a good reminder; everything that MJ does is in a LONG time framework, so we have to have plenty of patience and long-sight.
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years to get it right
Post by: Its her on January 10, 2013, 03:55:08 PM
Well, there is only one thing which is irreversible, and that would be extinction. Everything else IS reversible, as long as there are responsible, interested living beings on the planet. That we ( as employees, or fans or as a planet) would pick up an ominous mysterious mandate of 4 years to "get it right" without receiving a very specific explantion as to what IT is, is just a plan doomed to fail, as every possible helper wastes their time chasing their tails trying to figure it out! It cannot be anything like that.

I never, ever thought he was speaking to US, in the audience, watching a film advertised as being pulled together after his death from footage of rehearsals shot for MJ's archives! According to the press releases, this is footage we would NEVER have seen if MJ hadn't owed Sony some money. MJ was NOT talking to US.  At least not there. He is bright enough to mobilize his armies with ORDERS, not confusion. No army could succeed without a DEFINITE plan of action. Even scrambled orders are given as orders coded in readily discernable terms TO persons expecting to receive them. I really think that four year stuff was meant for the ears of his employees, hired for his Hoax (movie, funeral, memorial footage, publicity stunts, interviews, tv programs about him after his "death", people hired to drive the Hoax on his fan sites), and never us. I mean think about it. In context, he was never talking to us, there.

Yes, TII was his idea, for we all know he be NOT dead, but only "behind the curtain" cranking out Hoax material. So he IS using some things IN the movie---such as the after credits promise to play with folk and then BAM!, to throw out clues and things to Keep Watchin' FOR. But we have to pay attention to what he said in CONTEXT. What he said, and who he was with, to say it to. Ever heard the saying, If you don't take note of the TEXT, you'll get CONned.

There is another reason why the four year thing could not have been the BAM plan, and that is because it would further discredit TS, who inferred that he was equal to Back who had always been here, way before he ever posted here. He made it sound like MJ was supposed to come back on Halloween, but could not because of something we did or didn't do... and then in January 2010. I don't think MJ ever meant to be gone this long, but he just began to have so much fun with it, he  :bearhug: :bearhug: wanted to prolong it another year... :icon_albino: then another...  :icon_albino: then... :smiley_abuv: come on, just one more?? "Pwetty pweeze?"  :icon_rolleyes: You KNOW we have had gobs and gobs of exhilaration here on this Coaster Track!

What are we going to do if another "informer" comes along and suggests that Michael really meant 4 DOG years?? :thjajaja121: This could go on for EVER!!  :icon_albino: :o   Just because the Puppet Master ALONE holds that one SECRET card---the Bam (DATE)card. 

Now, if he DOES BAM 4 years to the day, I'll still think it is coincidence, because, #1, MJ has never been predictable, and #2,  I have not seen ANYTHING in the news or elsewhere, which is on some kind of 4 yr timetable, and is that close to being accomplished by then. WE certainly aren't doing anything like that, except working on this Hoax investigation. Am I right?  :icon_e_smile: I mean, I've been absent a bunch of weeks but, it seems like SOME one here would be posting, very high profile, where we all would have seen it, about a four year project and giving us updates... Even if he meant something Obama was doing in only four years, that time is up this month. Did I totally  :icon_eek: miss, gulp, :errrr: IT????? The point, everything, all this time?

MJ said once that he always has a beginning middle and end to his films, and Front told us that, Oh YEAH, you bet, MJ has this wrapped up tight, so not to worry. I DO believe he has a very definite FINISH to the Hoax part of this adventure, but just has decided to postpone it a few times. :Michael_Jackson_dancing_smile It is HIS prerogative.  :Michael_Jackson_smiley_by_red HE is the Director.

Do we mind REEEEEALLY?  :D

I think revisiting old stuff is just great!, and I think we will be delighted how much sense things make, now!  :)

 
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: MJhunny on January 10, 2013, 04:25:14 PM
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Bam=comeback and any other interpretation is grasping at straws.

right on  8)


and @ its her , your explanation of the four year statement being directed at crew and dancers but pertaining to the hoax , i must say i had'nt thought of it that way and it does sound good but i still seriously believe he was talking about what Hansen had said about climate change and Obama's 4 year term being crucial to change . But great way of interpretation by yourself nonetheless! :bearhug:
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: sweetsunsetwithMJ on January 10, 2013, 05:08:11 PM
Its Who
Quote
Well, there is only one thing which is irreversible, and that would be extinction. Everything else IS reversible,

Thanks for your brilliant post but now I have to say something that I have never said but I have always thought: there is nothing irreversible except "DEATH" so I think when Michael said "we have four years to get it right or else will be irreversible" those words were addressed to his major hoax team I mean those who were gonna help him to accomplish all those wrongs to get righted on time and the four years deadline was due to Obama's term who I think is helping him to accomplish it behind the curtain (of course Michael counted on only 4 years because he wasn't sure of Obama being reelected). Now why did Michael said "else or will be irreversible"? I think Michael gave himself four years to fulfil all his work plan and if he were not able to accomplish it would remain dead forever (irreversible) why? because if Michael were not able to fight against those evils that made his life a nightmare wouldn't be able to reappear in public after the huge exposition of all of them during this hoax.
After this BAM dates' drunkenness I came to think carefully that this forum is a public forum and as per TS the best one due to you don't have to sign in to read it, that means if Michael (through Front or TS in case they are legit) is giving us hints and clues to when he was gonna BAM, the bad guys would lie in wait to hunt him, right? so my guess is if Michael is to BAM he will do it "ANYTIME, ANYWAY AND ANYWHERE".
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years to get it right
Post by: Its her on January 10, 2013, 05:52:47 PM
   :bearhug: Hi MJhunny, long time no see. Well, ok, but then, what did he expect us to do if Obama's four year term is up? Or was he talking about his second term?

Ya know? From the DAY Obama offered his public condolensces to MJ's family and fans, I got the impression he was not grieving, but collaborating on something, with MJ---because he did not look anything but ;) proud to even ;) know MJ, which I was not aware of... Did you know they knew each other?? 

The "grief" seemed dispassionate, forced, but the pride in MJ was not. Obama looked tickled to be asked to talk about MJ, even in condolensces.  :icon_albino: :icon_e_surprised: :icon_e_surprised: :icon_e_surprised: Watch the President speaking about MJ again, if it's still out there somewhere. I'll have to look. Squint your eyes and see if you can picture him slyly helping Front :icon_e_surprised: bake his pie! I'm serious. But...

If not global warming...WHAT could it BE?

And, how do we explain MJ beginning to plan a hoax about global warming, when the thought hadn't crossed anyone's mind 30 years ago? It especially doesn't make sense to me that MJ himself could or would WAIT over at least 25 years TO fix something so supposedly critical at the ELEVENTH hour.  :-\ Idk, just throwing some thoughts out there.

I think MJ was talking to his Hoax crew or someONE specific IN the group pictured onstage in TII when he said it, because he didn't explain it; they all already were briefed on what he meant. There WERE secret pre-production meetings about this. Remember the singer who told us about the "Lights Out" signal which was their cue to "act" their part for the hoax? There were probably quite a few such huddles, which we can't know about until someone tells.  :animal0017: Oooh, and I think most of them only had 2 year contracts with MJ, so they can sing like canaries now, unless there was a :ghsdf: renegotiation to keep silent longer...Right? Where are those folks, NOW? I don't follow Twitter, have any of them been tweetin their fingers off??? :affraid:

It will be interesting to discover new tidbits!  :bowdown: :icon_bounce:
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years to get it right
Post by: Its her on January 10, 2013, 06:51:17 PM
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Its Who
Quote
Well, there is only one thing which is irreversible, and that would be extinction. Everything else IS reversible,

Thanks for your brilliant post but now I have to say something that I have never said but I have always thought: there is nothing irreversible except "DEATH" so I think when Michael said "we have four years to get it right or else will be irreversible" those words were addressed to his major hoax team I mean those who were gonna help him to accomplish all those wrongs to get righted on time and the four years deadline was due to Obama's term who I think is helping him to accomplish it behind the curtain (of course Michael counted on only 4 years because he wasn't sure of Obama being reelected). Now why did Michael said "else or will be irreversible"? I think Michael gave himself four years to fulfil all his work plan and if he were not able to accomplish it would remain dead forever (irreversible) why? because if Michael were not able to fight against those evils that made his life a nightmare wouldn't be able to reappear in public after the huge exposition of all of them during this hoax.
After this BAM dates' drunkenness I came to think carefully that this forum is a public forum and as per TS the best one due to you don't have to sign in to read it, that means if Michael (through Front or TS in case they are legit) is giving us hints and clues to when he was gonna BAM, the bad guys would lie in wait to hunt him, right? so my guess is if Michael is to BAM he will do it "ANYTIME, ANYWAY AND ANYWHERE".

  :icon_lol: SweetSWINGset! :) You paint a scary picture of the situation, which almost sucked me in before, but I now think there has been some sort of "shift" and MJ is THE baddest of the BAD men, and I think he tried to fore-tell us this, when he asked, "WHO's BAD?" in his short film, all those years ago. You're right, if MJ CAN'T come back after a certain point, he would be the same as dead, but worse than that he would be extinct,  because he YET has no peer, and is the last of his kind :'( .The only thing I am a bit anxious about now is everyone who was insanely jealous before, being enraged, when he comes back. Yet, I even think he is on top of that! :icon_e_biggrin: It will all be ok. I think "Takeover" means he emerges on top. Maybe not just in the music/entertainment business, but maybe a real live "coup" for humanity in some Michaelish way (you KNOW that works!) :icon_mrgreen:. 
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years to get it right
Post by: Jowayria on January 11, 2013, 06:02:40 AM
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Ya know? From the DAY Obama offered his public condolensces to MJ's family and fans, I got the impression he was not grieving, but collaborating on something, with MJ---because he did not look anything but ;) proud to even ;) know MJ, which I was not aware of... Did you know they knew each other?? 

The "grief" seemed dispassionate, forced, but the pride in MJ was not. Obama looked tickled to be asked to talk about MJ, even in condolensces.  :icon_albino: :icon_e_surprised: :icon_e_surprised: :icon_e_surprised: Watch the President speaking about MJ again, if it's still out there somewhere. I'll have to look. Squint your eyes and see if you can picture him slyly helping Front :icon_e_surprised: bake his pie! I'm serious. But...



I was sort of reluctant to agree with you first , but you had my full attention one you started talking about Obama's speech about MJ and all . You're so right !  :bowdown:  It's obvious that the president is is on the hoax , and if we suppose that he's not , then we'll have to find reasonable answers to questions such as " is he at leats aware of it " , " if not why the official verified twitter account of the president following Pearljr ? " , " was he trying to confuse /mislead or to enlighten when he talked about the four  years ? " . In the absence of answers to these questions , I find it kind of safe to believe that Obama is a playing his part of the game , just like many others .

Ps : @Its her I love your posts ! they are so cute and amusing with the smileys ! =D

Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years to get it right
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on January 11, 2013, 06:47:36 AM
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It's obvious that the president is is on the hoax , and if we suppose that he's not , then we'll have to find reasonable answers to questions such as " is he at leats aware of it " , " if not why the official verified twitter account of the president following Pearljr ?


Just a thought, without trying to sound facetious. It probably not the president himself who is behind obamas twitter, it would be his "people" running the account. If pearl followed him, then its common courtesy in twitter land to follow back. Could it be possible, that his "people" followed her back, after she initiated?


What your saying is a possibility. But what is suggested above is also a possibility too. We have to think a little laterally.
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: emulik on January 11, 2013, 07:37:50 AM
@ItsHer...I love your posts, they are always so fresh  :icon_razz:
you have mentioned 4 DOG years  :icon_lol: OMG..that would be really long time to wait for Bam! If I am correct, 1 dog year equals 7 human years...so 4x7...28 years... :icon_lol:
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: luvandmissumike on January 11, 2013, 09:18:29 AM
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@ItsHer...I love your posts, they are always so fresh  :icon_razz:
you have mentioned 4 DOG years  :icon_lol: OMG..that would be really long time to wait for Bam! If I am correct, 1 dog year equals 7 human years...so 4x7...28 years... :icon_lol:


 i know....right   :Pulling_hair:
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years to get it right
Post by: Andrea on January 11, 2013, 10:35:27 AM
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It's obvious that the president is is on the hoax , and if we suppose that he's not , then we'll have to find reasonable answers to questions such as " is he at leats aware of it " , " if not why the official verified twitter account of the president following Pearljr ?


Just a thought, without trying to sound facetious. It probably not the president himself who is behind obamas twitter, it would be his "people" running the account. If pearl followed him, then its common courtesy in twitter land to follow back. Could it be possible, that his "people" followed her back, after she initiated?


What your saying is a possibility. But what is suggested above is also a possibility too. We have to think a little laterally.


I think you're right.  I just checked Obama's twitter account and it's following 667,291 people with around 25 million followers.  So whoever runs the account probably does a follow-back every now and then.  The first person to ever follow my twitter account was Yoko Ono (how cool is that?!? lol) and she follows a large number of people too.


Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years to get it right
Post by: Jowayria on January 11, 2013, 02:13:21 PM
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It's obvious that the president is is on the hoax , and if we suppose that he's not , then we'll have to find reasonable answers to questions such as " is he at leats aware of it " , " if not why the official verified twitter account of the president following Pearljr ?


Just a thought, without trying to sound facetious. It probably not the president himself who is behind obamas twitter, it would be his "people" running the account. If pearl followed him, then its common courtesy in twitter land to follow back. Could it be possible, that his "people" followed her back, after she initiated?


What your saying is a possibility. But what is suggested above is also a possibility too. We have to think a little laterally.


I think you're right.  I just checked Obama's twitter account and it's following 667,291 people with around 25 million followers.  So whoever runs the account probably does a follow-back every now and then.  The first person to ever follow my twitter account was Yoko Ono (how cool is that?!? lol) and she follows a large number of people too.

You guys are both right and I know that the twitter account is run by " #Obama2012 campaign staff " but he surely does take a look at his own page every now and then . Anyway , I just meant to put emphasis on the possibility that the president might also be  aware of the hoax  and his statement could be a response to the 4 years statement Michael talked about . I personally believe that he is on the hoax .
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: ~Souza~ on January 11, 2013, 07:37:52 PM
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Bam=comeback and any other interpretation is grasping at straws.

 :th_bravo:

People dig too deep.
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: MysticFairy on January 11, 2013, 08:45:19 PM
If Michael wasn't going to come back, Paris, Latoya and the family would not keep on spreading clues imo. They know we already had found out that he is alive. So the purpose of the recent clues is to keep us in the hoax land and wait for the BAM.
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: MJonmind on January 12, 2013, 04:20:49 AM
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Bam=comeback and any other interpretation is grasping at straws.
Probably MJ just likes that word. Watched too many cartoons/comics.  I just watched this:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyYWMQ8sfAI&list=UUDVdf9xJ3U2y_kwIw7GSwLQ[/youtube]

Also with Oprah when he explained why he grabbed his crotch. Bam! :icon_lol:
But of course we know MJ and Ortega in TII (and TS/Front) are giving the hoax meaning of return.
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: sweetsunsetwithMJ on January 12, 2013, 04:07:40 PM
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Bam=comeback and any other interpretation is grasping at straws.

 :th_bravo:

People dig too deep.

YESSSSSSSSS you both are right!!  (http://www.glitter-graphics.com/images/empty.gif)
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years to get it right
Post by: Its her on January 13, 2013, 12:52:57 AM
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It's obvious that the president is is on the hoax , and if we suppose that he's not , then we'll have to find reasonable answers to questions such as " is he at leats aware of it " , " if not why the official verified twitter account of the president following Pearljr ?


Just a thought, without trying to sound facetious. It probably not the president himself who is behind obamas twitter, it would be his "people" running the account. If pearl followed him, then its common courtesy in twitter land to follow back. Could it be possible, that his "people" followed her back, after she initiated?


What your saying is a possibility. But what is suggested above is also a possibility too. We have to think a little laterally.


I think you're right.  I just checked Obama's twitter account and it's following 667,291 people with around 25 million followers.  So whoever runs the account probably does a follow-back every now and then.  The first person to ever follow my twitter account was Yoko Ono (how cool is that?!? lol) and she follows a large number of people too.

You guys are both right and I know that the twitter account is run by " #Obama2012 campaign staff " but he surely does take a look at his own page every now and then . Anyway , I just meant to put emphasis on the possibility that the president might also be  aware of the hoax  and his statement could be a response to the 4 years statement Michael talked about . I personally believe that he is in on the hoax .

  :bowdown: Thank you, Jowayria. :)

Even if the Pres. is not a very active participant, I just think MJ thought of EVERYthing, and he simply shared his covert :icon_albino: ideas with his President  (just to keep him from being surprised and  :affraid: punked, himself---bad protocol and all--- :icon_redface: :icon_e_surprised:). I think, when Obama broke into chuckles, MJ then said, "Is that a Go?" and Obama said "GO! Yes, you CAN!"  :beerchug:

Nobody refuses Michael Jackson's respectful ways and winning ideas :smiley_abuv: :icon_exclaim:  ;)
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on January 13, 2013, 01:44:12 AM
The signs of hoax are out there for everyone to see. It is also possible, considering that the whitehouse are often involved in hoaxes themselves, that MJs hoax was detected by them. It doesn't neccesarily mean MJ told the president. (although, I am not saying it isn't possible)

The fact is we have seen that there are celebrities who have come out and said they believe MJ to be alive (albeit, they may have since retracted their statements) It doesn't mean that MJ told these people. It may just mean they are seeing the hoax signs, just like us.

Lets face it, the family statements, UCLA annoucement, that memorial, and ridiculous green screen funeral are all stand out signs of hoax. Those familiar with telling lies (sorry Obama) or those in the entertainment industry are all too familiar with such fictional events that perhaps they saw right through them and came to the conclusion of 'hoax' on their own. Doesn't mean they are in on the hoax.

Another sticking point for me personally is, with all due respect to MJ, and this is more a question that I am keen to hear others perspective on, rather than a statement, but lets be real here, MJ is the greatest thing amongst fans, but amongst an incredibly large number of others there is still a hate for MJ and a misconception that he is a ped*****
(I am getting to my point, sorry!) Wouldn't Obama being 'in' on the hoax potentially jeapordize having these people on his side? Wouldn't it be in Obamas interests to stay neutral regarding MJ? Especially in relation to a hoax which will no doubt as much as make a lot of fans happy, piss off a lot of others...

Again, this isn't a statement its more of a question. It has always been a sticking point for me regaridng the idea of Obama not being involved. But perhaps I am not looking at this from the right angle. So other peoples opinions here are welcomed.


P.s hope I am making sense
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years to get it right
Post by: Its her on January 13, 2013, 01:59:00 AM
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Bam=comeback and any other interpretation is grasping at straws.
Probably MJ just likes that word. Watched too many cartoons/comics.  I just watched this:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyYWMQ8sfAI&list=UUDVdf9xJ3U2y_kwIw7GSwLQ[/youtube]

Also with Oprah when he explained why he grabbed his crotch. Bam! :icon_lol:
But of course we know MJ and Ortega in TII (and TS/Front) are giving the hoax meaning of return.

:icon_e_biggrin: MJonmind, this is quite a find---MJ throwing PUNCHES and saying BAM :icon_exclaim: Revisiting old things, he does the same thing on his History short films 1 & 2 sets. I posted this before but no one seemed to know what I meant. Both sets have writing which states, "BRACE YOURSELVES", but one is before you watch his films, and the other one is after, and there is nothing else on the disc (after), to 'brace yourselves' for.

I can't remember which, but HE  :Michael_Jackson_dancing_smile throws a punch on one, and the other one just has a huge Ironman-type fist comeout of nowhere, AT the camera, and POW, err, BAM :icon_exclaim: ---right in the kisser!

When I posted it before, it was proof he, oh, yeah, planned to do it TO (for) his fans--the ones buying his films. We   :bearhug: had (already in hand :icon_e_surprised:) an intended "heads up"---one of many, I believe, and the rest of the world just got the shock.

I asked the question---WHY did he say  :TongueOutSmiley: "BRACE YOURSELVES" at the end of the short films, AFTER we watched them all? Brace yourselves for what?

The planned, "best, yet to come".  :icon_e_smile: Something REAL scary that would feel like a blow to the gut. Death, but faked. :icon_pale:

THAT :affraid:, I think, was Part ONE. Then, the Return Bam; THIS is it: Part TWO.  :multiplespotting:  :multiplespotting:

That's like,  :D uh, a real "one-two punch", right? As it should be. :michael_jackson-1135: :michael_jackson-1135: :michael_jackson-1135:
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Thriller4ever on January 13, 2013, 02:33:34 AM
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The signs of hoax are out there for everyone to see. It is also possible, considering that the whitehouse are often involved in hoaxes themselves, that MJs hoax was detected by them. It doesn't neccesarily mean MJ told the president. (although, I am not saying it isn't possible)

The fact is we have seen that there are celebrities who have come out and said they believe MJ to be alive (albeit, they may have since retracted their statements) It doesn't mean that MJ told these people. It may just mean they are seeing the hoax signs, just like us.

Lets face it, the family statements, UCLA annoucement, that memorial, and ridiculous green screen funeral are all stand out signs of hoax. Those familiar with telling lies (sorry Obama) or those in the entertainment industry are all too familiar with such fictional events that perhaps they saw right through them and came to the conclusion of 'hoax' on their own. Doesn't mean they are in on the hoax.

Another sticking point for me personally is, with all due respect to MJ, and this is more a question that I am keen to hear others perspective on, rather than a statement, but lets be real here, MJ is the greatest thing amongst fans, but amongst an incredibly large number of others there is still a hate for MJ and a misconception that he is a ped*****
(I am getting to my point, sorry!) Wouldn't Obama being 'in' on the hoax potentially jeapordize having these people on his side? Wouldn't it be in Obamas interests to stay neutral regarding MJ? Especially in relation to a hoax which will no doubt as much as make a lot of fans happy, piss off a lot of others...

Again, this isn't a statement its more of a question. It has always been a sticking point for me regaridng the idea of Obama not being involved. But perhaps I am not looking at this from the right angle. So other peoples opinions here are welcomed.


P.s hope I am making sense

You are definitely making sense

I'm just gonna write everything i feel.

This hoax is NOT about global warming, saving earth. That would be the dumbest hoax explanation ever in my opinion.

This hoax cannot be an awareness campaign against TPTB (if MJ faked his death to let people know about the evil institutions, this hoax would end even before he'd comeback as TPTB/enemies would know way before MJ's fans would know that he's alive and would kill him.. at least will not let him out)
His life would be in grave danger.

This hoax has to be for solely a sting on the media, to recover his damaged image. The hoax is impossible without the assistance of some influential institution, and Michael may very well have joined forces with them for fulfilling his purpose. And these institutions maybe having some benefits for assisting MJ...a case of pure mutual co-operation.

We do not know whether MJ is secretly planning to stab them in the back and create revolution (not possible IMO), but at this moment, he is for sure in his enemies camp and acting Bad. A business deal.
And Obama might be helping Michael, because as I said, there would be some benefit out of providing assistance. And anyways, Michael being with the TPTB pre-supposes Obama being with the hoax.

This is my perception of the hoax at this moment. And as Bec had said...entertainment for fans, sting on the media, a slap on public's face.
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on January 13, 2013, 02:39:36 AM
Quote
entertainment for fans, sting on the media, a slap on public's face.

To me thats the reason in a nutsell. But I am open to the idea I may need to change my mind. But up until now, these reasons make the most sense.
At the end of the day, he is the king of entertainment and who wouldn't wan't to go to extreme lengths to clear their name of such vitriolic accusations if they were such a public and misrepresented figure?

In addition to this though, I do believe he is trying to his version of 'preaching work' in an attempt to encourage people to find God / spiritual enlightenment, etc. He has always been a very spiritual person in his music therefore I believe this hasn't changed post hoax. But, jmo  :icon_e_wink:
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Thriller4ever on January 13, 2013, 02:57:01 AM
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Quote
entertainment for fans, sting on the media, a slap on public's face.

To me thats the reason in a nutsell. But I am open to the idea I may need to change my mind. But up until now, these reasons make the most sense.
At the end of the day, he is the king of entertainment and who wouldn't wan't to go to extreme lengths to clear their name of such vitriolic accusations if they were such a public and misrepresented figure?

In addition to this though, I do believe he is trying to his version of 'preaching work' in an attempt to encourage people to find God / spiritual enlightenment, etc. He has always been a very spiritual person in his music therefore I believe this hasn't changed post hoax. But, jmo  :icon_e_wink:

spiritual enlightenment is more for us, rather than the public. After his comeback, more people will be interested in the technical details of the hoax instead of the spiritual ones.
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years to get it right
Post by: Its her on January 13, 2013, 03:08:40 AM
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Quote
...Another example of this is FIST in ear, I don't believe he is talking about a literal fist in his ear, futhermore, I dont think he is actually referring to the audio equipment. I believe fist in ear (and I know others believe the same) to be a reference to something Michael doesnt agree with or like to hear or activity he is aware of that doesn't sit well for him. You know, Don't like it, don't like hearing it, makes me sick... "its like a fist in my ear" But on the surface it appears that MJ is talking about audio equipment, but is he really?

TII is full of scenes where MJ appears to be talking about one thing on the surface, but post knowledge of the hoax you see that he is really talking about something else....

Ha ha ha MJ is bending over backwards to make certain enough clues are out there, that he PLANNED this, ALL of it, including the second shock---the comeback/takeover/BAM. omgosh! I  didn't even see, upon first read, that you said "FIST" so many times.

I agree that a FIST to the ear would be unpleasant, whether literal or figurative...we'll just have to figure it out WHICH way he meant, for sure, but (to be lame, as usual :icon_e_confused: ) a real FIST to the ear would go, "BAM". I don't know if that was the point, but I don't think we are to go so far, now, to examine boxer's or cauliflower ears...without more thought on this.  :icon_geek:
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years to get it right
Post by: Its her on January 13, 2013, 03:34:39 AM
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@ItsHer...I love your posts, they are always so fresh  :icon_razz:
you have mentioned 4 DOG years  :icon_lol: OMG..that would be really long time to wait for Bam! If I am correct, 1 dog year equals 7 human years...so 4x7...28 years... :icon_lol:

Oh, Emulik, thank you!  :icon_e_biggrin: And you are correct about "dog years" being about 28 years! But, guess what!? Even if MJ DID mean dog years (I, personally, was kidding around  :icon_e_surprised:), he's ALREADY been keeping this secret that long! :icon_eek: Time's almost up!   :bearhug: :icon_bounce: :thjajaja121:
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Andrea on January 13, 2013, 11:26:04 AM
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This hoax is NOT about global warming, saving earth. That would be the dumbest hoax explanation ever in my opinion.

This hoax cannot be an awareness campaign against TPTB (if MJ faked his death to let people know about the evil institutions, this hoax would end even before he'd comeback as TPTB/enemies would know way before MJ's fans would know that he's alive and would kill him.. at least will not let him out)
His life would be in grave danger.

This hoax has to be for solely a sting on the media, to recover his damaged image. The hoax is impossible without the assistance of some influential institution, and Michael may very well have joined forces with them for fulfilling his purpose. And these institutions maybe having some benefits for assisting MJ...a case of pure mutual co-operation.

We do not know whether MJ is secretly planning to stab them in the back and create revolution (not possible IMO), but at this moment, he is for sure in his enemies camp and acting Bad. A business deal.
And Obama might be helping Michael, because as I said, there would be some benefit out of providing assistance. And anyways, Michael being with the TPTB pre-supposes Obama being with the hoax.

This is my perception of the hoax at this moment. And as Bec had said...entertainment for fans, sting on the media, a slap on public's face.


I definitely agree that the hoax is, in part, entertainment for those paying attention (not necessarily just fans) and a sting of sorts on the media and the public's acceptance for what the media says.  The mass media is definitely corrupted by those who control the media - they try to tell us what to think and feel by manipulating the events around the world, skewing and presenting the "facts" so we react how they want us to - which furthers their agenda of control.  Michael preached love, peace, understanding and caring for one another.  He knows the importance of universal love, he says so near the beginning of this video.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=q6smxPoMBbM#![/youtube]

Michael's message is and has always been in direct conflict with "theirs".  They spread fear and all the negativity that goes along with it.  Which is why, imo, "they" set out to destroy Michael with the allegations, using the media to paint the worst possible picture of Michael by saying he's the worst type of deviant.  Others who's messages opposed TPTB's were killed - John Lennon, Princess Diana, MLK Jr, JFK and more.  Maybe TPTB did try to kill MJ over the years but failed.  I remember what TS said about this, that it's possible God has a special plan for Michael and that is why no one can get to him - he's protected by God from his enemies “for such a time as this”. 


About saving the Earth itself - the Earth is a living creature and if it comes down to it, the Earth won't let us destroy her - she'll wipe us out first.  So we need to be very aware of how our actions impact the Earth. I don't really believe what "they" say about global warming (considering the source of this info is "them") and the fact that the Earth has been naturally warming and cooling for eons.


I realize that I am more inclined to believe the more serious aspects of the hoax, being a "conspiracy theorist" prior to Michael faking his death.  But I have also noticed a definite increase of those who see what I see and know there is a hidden agenda at work for world control.  More and more people ARE waking up to this reality, especially since June 25th.  And the more who are aware, the safer Michael will be when he returns.  The question is - will their be enough people in the 4 years time-line that Michael stated?
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Thriller4ever on January 13, 2013, 11:45:39 AM
Quote
Maybe TPTB did try to kill MJ over the years but failed.  I remember what TS said about this, that it's possible God has a special plan for Michael and that is why no one can get to him - he's protected by God from his enemies “for such a time as this”.  
I've always felt that the reason for TPTB not killing Michael is because he's SO influential. TPTB must have made him suffer because he was 'not like them' by manipulating media and all the BS about him, the allegations and in various other ways, in the hope of MJ being on their side. No other artist is so much appealing and influential as MJ. If media never printed all the crap news about him, this day MJ will have zero haters. The hate for MJ was channelled by the media by adding the 'personal opinions' on MJ. If MJ was a TPTB member, it would have been way easy for all of them to establish a better control over the public through MJ.

But at this point, though I know and sincerely believe that Michael possesses divine characteristics and has always preached being on God's side, feel that MJ must have had taken the TPTB's assistance to do the hoax. If not, how else? by influential friends in the middle east...? and if his friends did help him out, isn't his life in grave danger right now...is he doing the hoax putting his life at stake? And if Michael is really against TPTB, that'd also give the chance for his kids' lives being in danger.
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Andrea on January 13, 2013, 12:44:04 PM
Quote from: Thriller4ever
Quote
Maybe TPTB did try to kill MJ over the years but failed.  I remember what TS said about this, that it's possible God has a special plan for Michael and that is why no one can get to him - he's protected by God from his enemies “for such a time as this”.

I've always felt that the reason for TPTB not killing Michael is because he's SO influential. TPTB must have made him suffer because he was 'not like them' by manipulating media and all the BS about him, the allegations and in various other ways, in the hope of MJ being on their side. No other artist is so much appealing and influential as MJ. If media never printed all the crap news about him, this day MJ will have zero haters. The hate for MJ was channelled by the media by adding the 'personal opinions' on MJ. If MJ was a TPTB member, it would have been way easy for all of them to establish a better control over the public through MJ.

But at this point, though I know and sincerely believe that Michael possesses divine characteristics and has always preached being on God's side, feel that MJ must have had taken the TPTB's assistance to do the hoax. If not, how else? by influential friends in the middle east...? and if his friends did help him out, isn't his life in grave danger right now...is he doing the hoax putting his life at stake? And if Michael is really against TPTB, that'd also give the chance for his kids' lives being in danger.


I agree that Michael has influential friends with power and money who are willing to help him pull off this hoax.  I just don't think that every person who has power and money is part of TPTB.  I believe that anyone helping MJ opposes TPTB's agenda.  The TPTB know that more and more people are becoming aware of what's really going on in the world and this knowledge provides a sort of protection against them, their actions become more obvious.  Paris knows what's going on and has tweeted about it, brought attention to it.  Many people believe that TPTB killed Michael, many more than those who think Michael is alive - going after his children would cause such an outcry, such outrage.  The Jacksons wouldn't allow it.  We have to trust that they are protected.


The media's attempt to destroy Michael was their attempt to belittle his message because Michael has such great influence all over the world.  It's easier to control people who are scared and angry than people who are loving and caring.
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: gwynned on January 13, 2013, 02:10:44 PM
Andrea, you are spot on with both of your most recent posts, at least IMO!  We can only speculate now on who might be helping Michael, but he said frequently he could not do it himself.  I am of the mind that Michael has long ago won his battle with the media and is now using the media to right some serious wrongs and not just about him.  It's the only explanation for his willingness to place his children in the public limelight. 
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Andrea on January 13, 2013, 03:37:18 PM



Agree gwynned, Michael has been manipulating the media as well.  Fighting fire with fire, as it were.  It's much more obvious to us, the rest of the world will see the signs of it in hindsight.
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years to get it right
Post by: emulik on January 14, 2013, 02:55:13 AM
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@ItsHer...I love your posts, they are always so fresh  :icon_razz:
you have mentioned 4 DOG years  :icon_lol: OMG..that would be really long time to wait for Bam! If I am correct, 1 dog year equals 7 human years...so 4x7...28 years... :icon_lol:

Oh, Emulik, thank you!  :icon_e_biggrin: And you are correct about "dog years" being about 28 years! But, guess what!? Even if MJ DID mean dog years (I, personally, was kidding around  :icon_e_surprised:), he's ALREADY been keeping this secret that long! :icon_eek: Time's almost up!   :bearhug: :icon_bounce: :thjajaja121:
:icon_razz: I know you were just kidding  :LolLolLolLol: 28 years is really a long time, lol :)
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Thriller4ever on January 14, 2013, 09:00:13 AM
Michael says in the 'This is It' audio ..
 
"Ready? 1..2..3..4" [music starts]

he could very well be talking about 4 years here.  and then he sings,

'this is it...here I stand.
I'm the light of the world
i feel grand"

This part could mean comeback...imo
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Snoopy71 on January 14, 2013, 11:06:45 AM
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Michael says in the 'This is It' audio ..
 
"Ready? 1..2..3..4" [music starts]

he could very well be talking about 4 years here.  and then he sings,

'this is it...here I stand.
I'm the light of the world
i feel grand"

This part could mean comeback...imo

I think you're right.  Lately I've been wondering if Michael's music, interviews etc have more clues than we realize. I've been going back and listening to a lot of his interviews lately and stuff that just seemed like conversation before are now starting to jump out as clues or messages.

Like you said in this particular song he does a count off....I don't recall Michael having done that before (he may have), but the fact he does it on THIS song is significant...IMO :compute:
Title: Re: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: ~Souza~ on January 14, 2013, 11:11:41 AM
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Michael says in the 'This is It' audio ..
 
"Ready? 1..2..3..4" [music starts]

he could very well be talking about 4 years here.  and then he sings,

'this is it...here I stand.
I'm the light of the world
i feel grand"

This part could mean comeback...imo

Lol, I think you are the first in almost 4 years who notices that, good thought! That is why revisiting old topics is important, we have learned more, gathered all this info all these years and might see or think of things we missed earlier.

Old fashioned hoaxing is great now to kill whatever time we have left in this nuthouse.
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Thriller4ever on January 14, 2013, 12:05:05 PM
I don't know whether this has been discussed previously in the forum but this just popped in my mind and i don't know whether i'm supposed to create a new thread for this but as this topic is related to 4 years and bam and all, i'm posting here ..... anyways

in the official website of Lundon's bridge {http://www.lundons.com/meet.html (http://www.lundons.com/meet.html)} under the 'meet the cast you can see this :

(http://grabilla.com/0310e-9a07d943-14ac-41c6-aded-1d10bf1bb6f2.png) (http://grabilla.com/0310e-9a07d943-14ac-41c6-aded-1d10bf1bb6f2.html)

"(Live Actor) bet you can't guess who will play Lundon's Dad"

This got me into thinking that maybe MJ will bam this way. He started this hoax in a real world scenario and ending it by appearing on the screen. Now people who don't know that Michael's alive will surely be shocked with all of this.

And check out this synopisis :  http://www.twitlonger.com/show/emc16q (http://www.twitlonger.com/show/emc16q)

"3 months pass and Kevin is presumed dead."


And in this story lundon's dad is kidnapped so will this be the possible explanation after comeback? and if so, we have Sharon Sydney talking that she thinks MJ is kidnapped...and she was supposedly a witness at the UCLA and she saw it was not Michael on the stretcher, it was someone else.
Though, at present I can't see how this kidnapping explanation might support the sting on media.
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: sweetsunsetwithMJ on January 14, 2013, 04:44:31 PM
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I don't know whether this has been discussed previously in the forum but this just popped in my mind and i don't know whether i'm supposed to create a new thread for this but as this topic is related to 4 years and bam and all, i'm posting here ..... anyways

in the official website of Lundon's bridge {http://www.lundons.com/meet.html (http://www.lundons.com/meet.html)} under the 'meet the cast you can see this :

(http://grabilla.com/0310e-9a07d943-14ac-41c6-aded-1d10bf1bb6f2.png) (http://grabilla.com/0310e-9a07d943-14ac-41c6-aded-1d10bf1bb6f2.html)

"(Live Actor) bet you can't guess who will play Lundon's Dad"

This got me into thinking that maybe MJ will bam this way. He started this hoax in a real world scenario and ending it by appearing on the screen. Now people who don't know that Michael's alive will surely be shocked with all of this.

And check out this synopisis :  http://www.twitlonger.com/show/emc16q (http://www.twitlonger.com/show/emc16q)

"3 months pass and Kevin is presumed dead."


And in this story lundon's dad is kidnapped so will this be the possible explanation after comeback? and if so, we have Sharon Sydney talking that she thinks MJ is kidnapped...and she was supposedly a witness at the UCLA and she saw it was not Michael on the stretcher, it was someone else.
Though, at present I can't see how this kidnapping explanation might support the sting on media.

Yes we were talking about the possibility that Lundon's dad might be Michael himself however we didn't think about the kidnapping fact but I find it like a good excuse to reappear in public, that's probably the why Michael not BAMming last Christmas and the fake clues about it just to mislead us and make time till Lundon's Bridge and the 3 Keys is released, who knows? BTW does anyone know in what month of 2013 the movie will be released?
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: everlastinglove_MJ on January 14, 2013, 05:37:11 PM
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I don't know whether this has been discussed previously in the forum but this just popped in my mind and i don't know whether i'm supposed to create a new thread for this but as this topic is related to 4 years and bam and all, i'm posting here ..... anyways

in the official website of Lundon's bridge {http://www.lundons.com/meet.html (http://www.lundons.com/meet.html)} under the 'meet the cast you can see this :

(http://grabilla.com/0310e-9a07d943-14ac-41c6-aded-1d10bf1bb6f2.png) (http://grabilla.com/0310e-9a07d943-14ac-41c6-aded-1d10bf1bb6f2.html)

"(Live Actor) bet you can't guess who will play Lundon's Dad"

This got me into thinking that maybe MJ will bam this way. He started this hoax in a real world scenario and ending it by appearing on the screen. Now people who don't know that Michael's alive will surely be shocked with all of this.

And check out this synopisis :  http://www.twitlonger.com/show/emc16q (http://www.twitlonger.com/show/emc16q)

"3 months pass and Kevin is presumed dead."


And in this story lundon's dad is kidnapped so will this be the possible explanation after comeback? and if so, we have Sharon Sydney talking that she thinks MJ is kidnapped...and she was supposedly a witness at the UCLA and she saw it was not Michael on the stretcher, it was someone else.
Though, at present I can't see how this kidnapping explanation might support the sting on media.

Yes we were talking about the possibility that Lundon's dad might be Michael himself however we didn't think about the kidnapping fact but I find it like a good excuse to reappear in public, that's probably the why Michael not BAMming last Christmas and the fake clues about it just to mislead us and make time till Lundon's Bridge and the 3 Keys is released, who knows? BTW does anyone know in what month of 2013 the movie will be released?


Quote
BTW does anyone know in what month of 2013 the movie will be released?

I was wondering about that too? Every now and then I'm checking if there are any updates. No news of a release so far. Anyways, the best is yet to come :icon_e_biggrin:
Title: Re: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: blankie on January 14, 2013, 05:42:33 PM
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Michael says in the 'This is It' audio ..
 
"Ready? 1..2..3..4" [music starts]

he could very well be talking about 4 years here.  and then he sings,

'this is it...here I stand.
I'm the light of the world
i feel grand"

This part could mean comeback...imo

Lol, I think you are the first in almost 4 years who notices that, good thought! That is why revisiting old topics is important, we have learned more, gathered all this info all these years and might see or think of things we missed earlier.

Old fashioned hoaxing is great now to kill whatever time we have left in this nuthouse.

Agree with you and is always a great emotion...Our great adventure is something magical   :icon_razz:
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years to get it right
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on January 14, 2013, 07:07:38 PM
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Quote
...Another example of this is FIST in ear, I don't believe he is talking about a literal fist in his ear, futhermore, I dont think he is actually referring to the audio equipment. I believe fist in ear (and I know others believe the same) to be a reference to something Michael doesnt agree with or like to hear or activity he is aware of that doesn't sit well for him. You know, Don't like it, don't like hearing it, makes me sick... "its like a fist in my ear" But on the surface it appears that MJ is talking about audio equipment, but is he really?

TII is full of scenes where MJ appears to be talking about one thing on the surface, but post knowledge of the hoax you see that he is really talking about something else....

Ha ha ha MJ is bending over backwards to make certain enough clues are out there, that he PLANNED this, ALL of it, including the second shock---the comeback/takeover/BAM. omgosh! I  didn't even see, upon first read, that you said "FIST" so many times.

I agree that a FIST to the ear would be unpleasant, whether literal or figurative...we'll just have to figure it out WHICH way he meant, for sure, but (to be lame, as usual :icon_e_confused: ) a real FIST to the ear would go, "BAM". I don't know if that was the point, but I don't think we are to go so far, now, to examine boxer's or cauliflower ears...without more thought on this.  :icon_geek:



 :icon_lol: He he. You're beautiful!
Title: Re: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: MJonmind on January 15, 2013, 01:16:01 AM
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Michael says in the 'This is It' audio ..
 
"Ready? 1..2..3..4" [music starts]

he could very well be talking about 4 years here.  and then he sings,

'this is it...here I stand.
I'm the light of the world
i feel grand"

This part could mean comeback...imo

Lol, I think you are the first in almost 4 years who notices that, good thought! That is why revisiting old topics is important, we have learned more, gathered all this info all these years and might see or think of things we missed earlier.

Old fashioned hoaxing is great now to kill whatever time we have left in this nuthouse.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bYLfU44WwU[/youtube]

Great find!

This report says the Lundon's Bridge is coming out in 2014.
http://www.aceshowbiz.com/movie/lundon_s_bridge_and_the_three_keys/
Quote
Munk Munchers suck the muck in the sea water by their 3 mouths and spray clean and nutritious water from their backend.
:icon_lol:
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Thriller4ever on January 15, 2013, 01:41:33 AM
@MJonmind :icon_lol: :icon_lol:

in imdb it's 2013. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1250981/ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1250981/)
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Jowayria on January 15, 2013, 11:36:02 AM
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I don't know whether this has been discussed previously in the forum but this just popped in my mind and i don't know whether i'm supposed to create a new thread for this but as this topic is related to 4 years and bam and all, i'm posting here ..... anyways

in the official website of Lundon's bridge {http://www.lundons.com/meet.html (http://www.lundons.com/meet.html)} under the 'meet the cast you can see this :

(http://grabilla.com/0310e-9a07d943-14ac-41c6-aded-1d10bf1bb6f2.png) (http://grabilla.com/0310e-9a07d943-14ac-41c6-aded-1d10bf1bb6f2.html)

"(Live Actor) bet you can't guess who will play Lundon's Dad"

This got me into thinking that maybe MJ will bam this way. He started this hoax in a real world scenario and ending it by appearing on the screen. Now people who don't know that Michael's alive will surely be shocked with all of this.

And check out this synopisis :  http://www.twitlonger.com/show/emc16q (http://www.twitlonger.com/show/emc16q)

"3 months pass and Kevin is presumed dead."


And in this story lundon's dad is kidnapped so will this be the possible explanation after comeback? and if so, we have Sharon Sydney talking that she thinks MJ is kidnapped...and she was supposedly a witness at the UCLA and she saw it was not Michael on the stretcher, it was someone else.
Though, at present I can't see how this kidnapping explanation might support the sting on media.

Interesting ! ( It seems to be my word of the week lol )
I also find the trailer interesting !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paxvzzAqxbE

a girl who "believes".. a timeless family "adventure " ..
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: ellyd on January 15, 2013, 12:57:58 PM
I might be the only one but this photo does not sit well with me.
Who's that girl?
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Thriller4ever on January 15, 2013, 01:06:27 PM
Quote from: ellyd
I might be the only one but this photo does not sit well with me.
Who's that girl?
that's paris, from her official photoshoots for the movie...and she's been photoshopped...maybe airbrushed or something like that.
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Thriller4ever on January 16, 2013, 09:16:19 AM
Paris JUST deleted her tweet

[1] thing [2] do....[3] words [4] you...i love you <3

can you see? 1,2,3,4 

that's 4 years!!!
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Thriller4ever on January 16, 2013, 09:26:57 AM
here...i got this tweet from here >> http://ca.tweetwood.com/ParisJackson/tweet/291424654680268801 (http://ca.tweetwood.com/ParisJackson/tweet/291424654680268801)

(http://grabilla.com/03110-a5e0a5de-f44f-4a26-b161-863020a68095.png) (http://grabilla.com/03110-a5e0a5de-f44f-4a26-b161-863020a68095.html)


i really feel that she's confirming the 4 years time period. this would mean Michael would come back sometime in October...or after.
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: curls on January 16, 2013, 10:03:21 AM
^^^ I wouldn't rush to say she's confirming anything. Maybe just playing with us, seeing as 4 years and 1,2,3,4 at the start of 'This is It' have been discussed here in the past few days?? Or even simple coincidence?? Or not even Paris at all (I wouldn't know as I don't follow Twitter)!!
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Kiwigon on January 16, 2013, 10:56:55 AM
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^^^ I wouldn't rush to say she's confirming anything. Maybe just playing with us, seeing as 4 years and 1,2,3,4 at the start of 'This is It' have been discussed here in the past few days?? Or even simple coincidence?? Or not even Paris at all (I wouldn't know as I don't follow Twitter)!!
Hey everybody! As of late there have been some eye opening stuff! But on this topic, that Paris Jackson twitter find is amazing! It could be a leap saying definately its a confirmation, BUT, she has addressed many times that's she's paying attention, like with her, I love the #mjfam Tweet. We also have to remember there is no coincidences... and its definetely Paris Jackson's twitter, its verified. This could be an amazing clue.  :omg:  and the fact that the tweet was deleted afterward,probably means we have to pay extra close attention. Thriller4ever! Amazing!

Regarding the tweet, I really think its about TII, maybe saying were on the write path. Also that totally seems like a MJ thing to say. Seems very fishy.
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Billie J on January 16, 2013, 12:07:47 PM
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^^^ I wouldn't rush to say she's confirming anything. Maybe just playing with us, seeing as 4 years and 1,2,3,4 at the start of 'This is It' have been discussed here in the past few days?? Or even simple coincidence?? Or not even Paris at all (I wouldn't know as I don't follow Twitter)!!

That is a very Scary thought "Maybe just playing with us" I follow Paris on twitter. I'm not so sure either  that it's really Paris who is writing all her tweets. Maybe she has a ghost writer...
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Andrea on January 16, 2013, 12:17:32 PM
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^^^ I wouldn't rush to say she's confirming anything. Maybe just playing with us, seeing as 4 years and 1,2,3,4 at the start of 'This is It' have been discussed here in the past few days?? Or even simple coincidence?? Or not even Paris at all (I wouldn't know as I don't follow Twitter)!!


The 1.2.3.4 tweet is interesting but so was the dinosaur-BAM-2012 tweet that she re-tweeted back in 2011.  So going with the "fake" informer thing, she could very well be playing.  Or it has nothing to do with us.  The twitter account is hers, as it's "verified", I think she tweets both true and untrue things to do with the hoax and of course, things not related to the hoax at all.  It's only January 2013 and if nothing happens this year, I can see us falling back on Jermaine saying MJ had a five year plan...
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: curls on January 16, 2013, 12:33:56 PM
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  ...... It only January 2013 and if nothing happens this year, I can see us falling back on Jermaine saying MJ had a five year plan...

Ain't that the truth Andrea - other relevant dates in the future will always be found to extend this as long as needs be.  I don't know whether that makes me laugh or cry!!
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Thriller4ever on January 16, 2013, 12:39:12 PM
What I found intriguing personally was her deleting the tweet and anyways Michael himself talked about the 4 years thing. and it's definitely not about any global warming, that's for sure.
I posted this to share and I don't intend to give any false hopes. Michael wants to shock us all...so irrespective of any guessing Michael will comeback at a date which we can never predict. but it was worth noting anyways.
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Kiwigon on January 16, 2013, 01:13:03 PM
Its a pretty random tweet, on topic to what most of us were on here discussing.  :Pulling_hair: I'm ripping my hair out wanting more clues!  Anytime this year he could bam we don't know if it'll be something that coressponds with dr Murray, spring, or June 25, his birthday (rebirth), this is it premiere Oct..28. Or Christmas there are many days this year that's specific to the hoax. Its a matter of keeping us on our toes :moonwalk_: hehehe...
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Jowayria on January 16, 2013, 01:24:53 PM
The thing is that in a such case , there's no place for " random " things . If we believe that the hoax has been planned for years and years ago , then we must take it as an absolute  fact that everything is intended . Even irrelevant stuff ( The Family tweets and the TMZ posts  ) . If not to guide , then it must be intended to mislead .
Everything matters and nothing should be dismissed just because it doesn't match the requirements set for things to be hoaxy . JMO anyways .
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: sweetsunsetwithMJ on January 16, 2013, 05:02:00 PM
Ok I'll say what I think, regarding myself I will never pay attention or trust any Paris' tweets anymore above all after last Christmas, why? because she/he is trying to mislead us here with them, another thing is: which is our mission here from now on if the stuff given to us is just to mislead us? what can we investigate now?  there are no more clues at the moment there are only assumptions so I feel stupid when I have a theory and I want to develop it just because it's founded in nothing but assumptions, that goes to TS too "The King of FAKE information", we seem to have been bad girls and we don't deserve anything but speculation, sorry but it's how I feel.
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: curls on January 16, 2013, 05:28:50 PM
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The thing is that in a such case , there's no place for " random " things . If we believe that the hoax has been planned for years and years ago , then we must take it as an absolute  fact that everything is intended . Even irrelevant stuff ( The Family tweets and the TMZ posts  ) . If not to guide , then it must be intended to mislead .
Everything matters and nothing should be dismissed just because it doesn't match the requirements set for things to be hoaxy . JMO anyways .

I get what you're saying and agree that probably much has been intended to mislead rather than guide, but I don't believe EVERYTHING said and done by the Jacksons etc these past 3+ years has necessarily been hoax related! (I hope they are managing to have a life outside of the hoax - even if I seem unable to!) When all's said and done we see what we want to see, consciously or more likely subconsciously. JMO.
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on January 16, 2013, 06:59:34 PM
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^^^ I wouldn't rush to say she's confirming anything. Maybe just playing with us, seeing as 4 years and 1,2,3,4 at the start of 'This is It' have been discussed here in the past few days?? Or even simple coincidence?? Or not even Paris at all (I wouldn't know as I don't follow Twitter)!!


The 1.2.3.4 tweet is interesting but so was the dinosaur-BAM-2012 tweet that she re-tweeted back in 2011.  So going with the "fake" informer thing, she could very well be playing.  Or it has nothing to do with us.  The twitter account is hers, as it's "verified", I think she tweets both true and untrue things to do with the hoax and of course, things not related to the hoax at all.  It's only January 2013 and if nothing happens this year, I can see us falling back on Jermaine saying MJ had a five year plan...

I agree that everything now that TS, Front, Paris and Latoya say need to be taken with a grain of salt. In fact a huge amount of it lol...

But the five yr plan thing. If we go by that then it contradicts MJs 4 yr to get it right comment... I guess its a matter of who you believe more, Jermaine or MJ... Lol they both have a reputation for telling 'porky pies' (lies)

 :thjajaja121:
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: MJonmind on January 17, 2013, 12:23:27 AM
Quote
I agree that everything now that TS, Front, Paris and Latoya say need to be taken with a grain of salt. In fact a huge amount of it lol...

(http://at-sea.org/images/saltpilesbonaire.jpg)

Still we can't throw out the baby with the bath water.  Baby metaphorically is Michael.
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on January 17, 2013, 12:59:57 AM
I love that expression. Haven't heard it in ages  :bearhug:

Ps MJonmind check ur pm x
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: curls on January 17, 2013, 07:09:11 AM
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I agree that everything now that TS, Front, Paris and Latoya say need to be taken with a grain of salt. In fact a huge amount of it lol...

But the five yr plan thing. If we go by that then it contradicts MJs 4 yr to get it right comment... I guess its a matter of who you believe more, Jermaine or MJ... Lol they both have a reputation for telling 'porky pies' (lies)


To me its more a matter of not believing either?!  This year, next year, sometime, never - seriously, no-one is going to tell us! Remember, the element of expectation yet surprise is a vital one in the magical world of illusion!

Increasingly I'm thinking (like Bec) that we have, as a forum, been guilty of inflating our importance. I think this site was 'useful' in the beginning to get information out, but that time has long gone, and I feel we've been creating our own little parallel hoax world here for quite some time.

Not a bad place to be necessarily, but I think it's worth recognising it for what it is.  As usual, JMO of course!



Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: sweetsunsetwithMJ on January 17, 2013, 08:53:08 AM
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I agree that everything now that TS, Front, Paris and Latoya say need to be taken with a grain of salt. In fact a huge amount of it lol...

But the five yr plan thing. If we go by that then it contradicts MJs 4 yr to get it right comment... I guess its a matter of who you believe more, Jermaine or MJ... Lol they both have a reputation for telling 'porky pies' (lies)


To me its more a matter of not believing either?!  This year, next year, sometime, never - seriously, no-one is going to tell us! Remember, the element of expectation yet surprise is a vital one in the magical world of illusion!

Increasingly I'm thinking (like Bec) that we have, as a forum, been guilty of inflating our importance. I think this site was 'useful' in the beginning to get information out, but that time has long gone, and I feel we've been creating our own little parallel hoax world here for quite some time.

Not a bad place to be necessarily, but I think it's worth recognising it for what it is.  As usual, JMO of course!

Aussi, maybe they are 4 years if you count it from June 25 or October 28, 2009 but 5 years if you count from October 2008 that is when Michael moved to Carolwool to start preparing his hoax.

Yes Curls you and Bec are right we are not so important as we thought and we probably know nothing, so as I said this morning on the TS & TIAI Discussions talking about TMZ: "Nevertheless after what Bec said that we are no so important or special for Michael I think these kind of articles are addressing the general public to see if they catch the meaning once and for all, it's like TMZ is dropping shout outs to see if readers are able to catch them. I don't think that Michael is sending us cryptic messages anymore either through TMZ or via Paris' twitter. I have finally opened my eyes though, better late than never".
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Andrea on January 17, 2013, 10:06:40 AM


It's true the hoax would carry on with or without us.  Maybe we have sometimes inflated our importance to the hoax because it is so important to us, as a group and individually.  We'd like to think that Michael reads here and has read our words.  Not every post of course, but at least some.  Maybe we've even been right about certain things. So while our 'role' in this hoax may not be super important in the grand scheme of things, we do provide something -  a record of events/clues/signs about the hoax for future reference (post-BAM).  Feeling sorry for ourselves or belittling our contributions (however small) is counter productive, imo, and I'm not saying that's what you guys are doing but it's sort of the vibe I'm getting.  Apologies if I'm wrong about that.
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: RK on January 17, 2013, 10:30:15 AM
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It's true the hoax would carry on with or without us.  Maybe we have sometimes inflated our importance to the hoax because it is so important to us, as a group and individually.  We'd like to think that Michael reads here and has read our words.  Not every post of course, but at least some.  Maybe we've even been right about certain things. So while our 'role' in this hoax may not be super important in the grand scheme of things, we do provide something -  a record of events/clues/signs about the hoax for future reference (post-BAM).  Feeling sorry for ourselves or belittling our contributions (however small) is counter productive, imo, and I'm not saying that's what you guys are doing but it's sort of the vibe I'm getting.  Apologies if I'm wrong about tha

I like your thinking on this Andrea. Regarding keeping a record of events for future reference.....I believe it is important for us to continue to post relevant articles, court /legal documents and updates on Murray and persons of  interest in the hoax here to maintain and complete what we initially started. At the end of the day, it's not about us, it's MJ's hoax and I am just thankful to have been able to watch it in real time.   
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: StrangerInCalifornia on January 17, 2013, 10:46:11 AM
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It's true the hoax would carry on with or without us.  Maybe we have sometimes inflated our importance to the hoax because it is so important to us, as a group and individually.  We'd like to think that Michael reads here and has read our words.  Not every post of course, but at least some.  Maybe we've even been right about certain things. So while our 'role' in this hoax may not be super important in the grand scheme of things, we do provide something -  a record of events/clues/signs about the hoax for future reference (post-BAM).  Feeling sorry for ourselves or belittling our contributions (however small) is counter productive, imo, and I'm not saying that's what you guys are doing but it's sort of the vibe I'm getting.  Apologies if I'm wrong about that.

Agreed!
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: MJhunny on January 17, 2013, 12:57:08 PM
Not having had much time to comment these last days it was nice to see the thread getting many replies...
Just a pity that it seems the replies are going towards a "lets guess the bam date" route.
@thriller4ever a page or two back you posted how this hoax is not about global warming as you feel that would be the most ridiculous premise for a hoax. I certainly did not start this topic claiming that it was. It has to do with my thoughts on the four years statement not being "hoaxy" i explain this on page one.
@aussie  you post that jermaines five year statement is in direct conflict with mj telling us four years, again thats assuming the four years has to do with his comeback.
@everyone
Just like other real life events that take place do actually take place and are therefor not hoaxed, i simply say that not evereything we heard coming from mj's mouth the past years or decades( however long one choses to believe this hoax has been in preperation) is hoax related imo. mj felt very strongly for our planet thats no secret! 
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: MJonmind on January 17, 2013, 02:55:08 PM
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It's true the hoax would carry on with or without us.  Maybe we have sometimes inflated our importance to the hoax because it is so important to us, as a group and individually.  We'd like to think that Michael reads here and has read our words.  Not every post of course, but at least some.  Maybe we've even been right about certain things. So while our 'role' in this hoax may not be super important in the grand scheme of things, we do provide something -  a record of events/clues/signs about the hoax for future reference (post-BAM).  Feeling sorry for ourselves or belittling our contributions (however small) is counter productive, imo, and I'm not saying that's what you guys are doing but it's sort of the vibe I'm getting.  Apologies if I'm wrong about tha

I like your thinking on this Andrea. Regarding keeping a record of events for future reference.....I believe it is important for us to continue to post relevant articles, court /legal documents and updates on Murray and persons of  interest in the hoax here to maintain and complete what we initially started. At the end of the day, it's not about us, it's MJ's hoax and I am just thankful to have been able to watch it in real time.   
Amen and AMEN!  I feel blessed, and any discomfort is due to my own impatience and wrongful sense of entitlement.

MJhunny, you cannot separate the Bam from the planet, as in the TII ending, "Bam" was followed immediately by the girl holding the Earth.  They are one.
About 4 year or 5 year, I think MJ has plans within plans within plans, just as his life was an agenda within an agenda within an agenda, perhaps each with its own time-frame.  The biggest picture is global and historical for sure, but on the smallest level, I believe MJ and Front when he/they say he/they cares about each and every one of us deeply.  I really don't think he was lying or deceptive there, or who would love MJ if his repeatedly stated love was a lie.  He proved it with actions countless times with thousands of eye-witnesses out of camera and media range. Front:
Quote
I can honestly say, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that I would give any one of you here the shirt off my back if cold…the food off my plate if hungry…the water in my glass until your cup runneth over. I care deeply about each & every 1 of you.
It tests our faith and commitment to the core.  TS in 6-11:
Quote
Many Elvis fans have kept the faith for more than 30 years—with less clues than we have about MJ; it puts some of us MJ hoax fans to shame!
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on January 17, 2013, 03:10:38 PM
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@aussie  you post that jermaines five year statement is in direct conflict with mj telling us four years, again thats assuming the four years has to do with his comeback.


That's because I still maintain that is 100% refers to comeback   :icon_e_wink:

But get that others like yourself may feel it is in reference to something else, ie global warming or what not

I guess agree to disagree  :icon_e_wink:
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: curls on January 17, 2013, 04:06:58 PM
I'm not here to have my faith and commitment tested. I sincerely hope that's not what this has all been about.  Not feeling sorry for myself, just seeing things in a different light these days.
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: sweetsunsetwithMJ on January 17, 2013, 04:26:05 PM
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I'm not here to have my faith and commitment tested. I sincerely hope that's not what this has all been about.  Not feeling sorry for myself, just seeing things in a different light these days.

Indeed.
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: emulik on January 18, 2013, 02:22:39 AM
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  ...... It only January 2013 and if nothing happens this year, I can see us falling back on Jermaine saying MJ had a five year plan...

Ain't that the truth Andrea - other relevant dates in the future will always be found to extend this as long as needs be.  I don't know whether that makes me laugh or cry!!
same here! it can not goes like that forever, one date will be the right date, hopefully! :)
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: blankie on January 18, 2013, 06:30:20 PM
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  ...... It only January 2013 and if nothing happens this year, I can see us falling back on Jermaine saying MJ had a five year plan...

Ain't that the truth Andrea - other relevant dates in the future will always be found to extend this as long as needs be.  I don't know whether that makes me laugh or cry!!
same here! it can not goes like that forever, one date will be the right date, hopefully! :)


Correct !!! Only wait with L.O.V.E. for L.O.V.E.   :michael-jackson:

The best is yet to come !!!  :icon_bounce:
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: MJonmind on January 20, 2013, 03:52:55 AM
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i'm thinking the four years to get it right statement by MJ in This is it has to do with exactly what he was telling us in that context namely our duty to step up and do something before we completely ruin the planet for later generations (if we have'nt done so already)
This was what was in the news when Michael was in the planning stages of This Is It, and very likely what Michael meant when he reiterated that "we only have 4 years left to get it right or else it's irreversible".

In Jan 2009, a leading climatologist warned that the new president needed to lead the world in making significant changes to stop and reverse global warming...http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/jan/18/obama-climate-change ). Jim Hansen, one of the most prominent experts on climate change, was the one who said "we only have 4 years left". Hansen was not referring to the end of the world in 4 years, but rather to Obama's 4-year term as president. As carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere increase, global temperatures increase, melting the ice caps and causing sea levels to rise, which is predicted to reach devastating levels over the next hundred years. The urgency of Hansen's message is based on his contention that it is not just a proportional relationship between CO2 levels and rising temperatures, but that over time, the rate of rising temperatures will accelerate. He said, "We cannot now afford to put off change any longer. We have to get on a new path within this new administration. We have only four years left for Obama to set an example to the rest of the world. America must take the lead." 

So i don't think the four years has to do with his come back date.
I'm rethinking the validity of your initial post.  MJ keeps himself informed, and the news article did come out Jan 2009 around the time of the rehearsals.  I came across these MJ quotes.  Seems he knew about global warming more than 2 years before that already:
Quote
"I’m very concerned about the plight of the international global warming phenomenon. I knew it was coming, but I wish they would have gotten people’s interest sooner. But it’s never too late. It’s been described as a runaway train; if we don’t stop it, we’ll never get it back. So we have to fix it now. That’s what I was trying to do with "Earth Song", "Heal The World", "We Are The World", writing those songs to open up people’s consciousness. I wish people would listen to every word."

"I just wish they (including the authorities) would do more for the babies and children, help them more. That would be great, wouldn’t it?"

But on whether the 4 years is to do with Obama:
Quote
On the state of the world & the then presidential race:

"To tell you the truth, I don’t follow that stuff. We were raised to not…we don’t look to man to fix the problems of the world, we don’t. They can’t do it. That’s how I see it. It’s beyond us. Look, we don’t have control over the grounds, they can shake. We don’t have control over the seas, they can have tsunamis. We don’t have control over the skies, there are storms. We’re all in God’s hands. I think that man has to take that into consideration. I just wish they would do more for the babies and children, help them more. That would be great, wouldn’t it?"

Michael Jackson in his 2007 Ebony Magazine interview
http://www.reflectionsonthedance.com/Michael-In-Writing.html

The 4 years may also pertain to Bam as Souza said,
Quote
4 Years is the only time frame Michael HIMSELF gave. While everyone is being disappointed about other BAM dates passing by, they ignore that one line out of the horse's mouth. If there is a BAM, which I am sure there will be, then that's the biggest clue you can get.
or not, in which Bam has no specific time frame-- only when he chooses.
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: MJonmind on January 20, 2013, 02:41:02 PM
Guys, I really do feel very optimistic, excited, that we are on the right track, MJ's plan is moving forward as it should.
And I still believe 150% that TS and Front are essential parts of it, yet with a layer of protection against being too transparent.

AdelaideMoonwalker posted this video on another thread, but it better fits here in this ‘4 years’ thread, because it talks about that.  It is an awesome video uploaded Jan 19, 2013, and a real faith-booster.  Things are definately happening hoaxwise. We need to keep our eyes peeled in all directions--tweets, TMZ, etc.  Called 'ALIVE and FREE - ''There's A Storm Coming..." ', by Danis Gavriilidis.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23YJLqsycfQ

This guy was an engineer in TII, and I remember his name, Prince, mentioned at one point.

(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/hoaxpic/images/videojan19.jpg)

Things are happening, I really believe!  And I've never stopped believing Michael IS working behind the scenes in many movies-- 10,000 whispers coming from so many places, with many top people collaborating with him including Kriss Angel.
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Andrea on January 20, 2013, 04:17:15 PM
Quote
Guys, I really do feel very optimistic, excited, that we are on the right track, MJ's plan is moving forward as it should.
And I still believe 150% that TS and Front are essential parts of it, yet with a layer of protection against being too transparent.


I feel the same, MJonmind.
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on February 01, 2013, 11:29:25 PM
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Well considering this particular part of the movie was to do with Earth Song, MJ was talking about Climate Change. He was a little Naive in the way that he believed that there are enough good people in this world to do anything. That said, a BAM date would most likely come on the 25th if any date at all.

a) often the issue is not really the issue - to coin a phrase.  MJ speaking of somthing else that appears on the surface and to deaders as a climate issue

b) MJ not naive one iota and is not oblivious in thinking global issues are simplistic humans to solve and within capabilities. Thats why earth song is a song to God, the only solution to global mess. (not just talking climate mess)
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on February 02, 2013, 12:05:11 AM
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I always assumed he was singing to HUMANITY, you know the guys that i can actuallly SEE... seeing things does alot for credibility.

I guess without any disrespect, whether the audience believes or can SEE God is irrelevant. MJ believes and his music is filled with biblical / religious themes.

What about all the peace that you pledge your only Son > Jesus God's begotten Son. He is talking to God.



Re: Naivety, if that is what is percieved that is a deliberate front
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: MJonmind on February 02, 2013, 01:08:36 AM
Aussie, great post!  Oh...did you remove some of your post?  Yes, MJ is pleading with God in prayer!   I love how in the Earth song film, in answer to his prayer, everything is restored-- the dead man, dead elephant, chopped tree, dead earth, etc.  This is a picture of the restored earth prophesied in the Bible.  MJ knows his Bible extremely well IMO.

Quote
Jeremiah 4:23-26 I looked on the earth, and lo, it was waste and void; and to the heavens, and they had no light. I looked on the mountains, and lo, they were quaking, and all the hills moved to and fro. I looked, and lo, there was no one at all, and all the birds of the air had fled. I looked, and lo, the fruitful land was a desert, and all its cities were laid in ruins before the LORD, before his fierce anger.

Isaiah 24:3-6 The earth shall be utterly laid waste and utterly despoiled; for the LORD has spoken this word. The earth dries up and withers, the world languishes and withers; the heavens languish together with the earth. The earth lies polluted under its inhabitants; for they have transgressed laws, violated the statutes, broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore a curse devours the earth, and its inhabitants suffer for their guilt; therefore the inhabitants of the earth dwindled, and few people are left.

Isaiah 11:1-2 A shoot shall come out from the stump of Jesse, and a branch shall grow out of his roots. The spirit of the LORD shall rest on him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and the fear of the LORD.

Isaiah 11:6-9 The wolf shall live with the lamb, the leopard shall lie down with the kid, the calf and the lion and the fatling together, and a little child shall lead them. The cow and the bear shall graze, their young shall lie down together; and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. The nursing child shall play over the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put its hand on the adder's den. They will not hurt or destroy on all my holy mountain; for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the LORD as the waters cover the sea.

Isaiah 55:12 For you shall go out in joy, and be led back in peace; the mountains and the hills before you shall burst into song, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands.

Isaiah 65:17-19 For I am about to create new heavens and a new earth; the former things shall not be remembered or come to mind. But be glad and rejoice forever in what I am creating; for I am about to create Jerusalem as a joy, and its people as a delight. I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and delight in my people; no more shall the sound of weeping be heard in it, or the cry of distress

Revelation 21:1-5 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. And I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "See, the home of God is among mortals. He will dwell with them; they will be his peoples, and God himself will be with them; he will wipe every tear from their eyes. Death will be no more; mourning and crying and pain will be no more, for the first things have passed away." and the one who was seated on the throne said, "See, I am making all things new." Also he said, "Write this, for these words are trustworthy and true."

At the end of the song he sings, "What about Abraham?"  And it reminded me that Abraham is so close to God that he argues/bargains with God about not destroying Sodom and Gomorrah if there are a certain number of good people in it, going from 50 down to 10, and because he was a man of prayer God listened and promised. But there were less than 10 so nope.  Many times MJ has said he prays/talks to God a lot, and here we see he is bold. 
Even TS in Sign #2 sect. 9, mentions Daniel being bold in prayer and God responds.
Quote
Gabriel is only mentioned twice in the Old Testament; once here in chapter 9, and once back in chapter 8 (verse 16).  Daniel even made note of the fact that this angel Gabriel was the same one that he “had seen in the vision” of chapter 8; so Daniel knew that Gabriel was returning, in answer to his earnest prayer for better understanding of what had troubled him so deeply in chapter 8.

In fact, the prophecy in chapter 9 is only four verses (9:24 to 9:27).  Most of the chapter is about Daniel’s prayer; and this is a wonderful lesson on the power of sincere and earnest prayer—because as soon as Daniel started his serious prayer, Gabriel was sent from heaven in answer to Daniel’s prayer.

Daniel 9:23, “At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I [Gabriel] am come to show thee …”
TS is in total agreement with MJ on all this, confirming to me that he is very close to Michael or (I won't say it  :icon_lol:).
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: suspicious mind on February 02, 2013, 09:28:50 AM
umm with all the stuff arnie has been babbleing about and all the discription confusion perhaps it has something to do with some kind of stutue of limitations on fraud via identity theft. or perhaps i need to just go put on my little jacket and curl up in a ball in the corner cause i have nooooooo clue  :Pulling_hair: :-[ :'(
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Andrea on February 02, 2013, 10:13:32 AM

This may have been mentioned before but suspicious mind, you mentioned statute of limitations which led my mind elsewhere.  In California, a lawsuit must be filed within 4 years of a breach of a written contract and once the 4 years is up, the legal claim is no longer valid.  Makes me wonder if MJ signed a contract with AEG, in California, and this is part of the 4 year time-frame plan.

http://www.courts.ca.gov/9618.htm

Although according to reports, Michael never agreed to do the 50 shows, only 10.  The AEG aspect of the hoax has always bothered me because I can't figure out if they were a party to Michael's hoax plans or completely in the dark.  Katherine's lawsuit against them has been in the works for about 3 years now, claiming that AEG breached their side of the contract for being negligent toward the physical well-being of Michael.  AEG is some sort of side story with the hoax and I don't know what the heck is going on there, sometimes I think they must know, other times I'm  :suspect:
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: suspicious mind on February 02, 2013, 10:33:41 AM
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This may have been mentioned before but suspicious mind, you mentioned statute of limitations which led my mind elsewhere. In California, a lawsuit must be filed within 4 years of a breach of a written contract and once the 4 years is up, the legal claim is no longer valid.  Makes me wonder if MJ signed a contract with AEG, in California, and this is part of the 4 year time-frame plan.

http://www.courts.ca.gov/9618.htm

Although according to reports, Michael never agreed to do the 50 shows, only 10.  The AEG aspect of the hoax has always bothered me because I can't figure out if they were a party to Michael's hoax plans or completely in the dark.  Katherine's lawsuit against them has been in the works for about 3 years now, claiming that AEG breached their side of the contract for being negligent toward the physical well-being of Michael.  AEG is some sort of side story with the hoax and I don't know what the heck is going on there, sometimes I think they must know, other times I'm  :suspect:
happens to me all the time  :thjajaja121:
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Andrea on February 02, 2013, 10:57:11 AM
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This may have been mentioned before but suspicious mind, you mentioned statute of limitations which led my mind elsewhere. In California, a lawsuit must be filed within 4 years of a breach of a written contract and once the 4 years is up, the legal claim is no longer valid.  Makes me wonder if MJ signed a contract with AEG, in California, and this is part of the 4 year time-frame plan.

http://www.courts.ca.gov/9618.htm

Although according to reports, Michael never agreed to do the 50 shows, only 10.  The AEG aspect of the hoax has always bothered me because I can't figure out if they were a party to Michael's hoax plans or completely in the dark.  Katherine's lawsuit against them has been in the works for about 3 years now, claiming that AEG breached their side of the contract for being negligent toward the physical well-being of Michael.  AEG is some sort of side story with the hoax and I don't know what the heck is going on there, sometimes I think they must know, other times I'm  :suspect:
happens to me all the time  :thjajaja121:

 
:icon_lol:  Yep, me too!  Sometimes the most seemingly random word or phrase triggers a completely different train of thought.
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: sweetsunsetwithMJ on February 02, 2013, 11:21:57 AM
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This may have been mentioned before but suspicious mind, you mentioned statute of limitations which led my mind elsewhere.  In California, a lawsuit must be filed within 4 years of a breach of a written contract and once the 4 years is up, the legal claim is no longer valid.  Makes me wonder if MJ signed a contract with AEG, in California, and this is part of the 4 year time-frame plan.

http://www.courts.ca.gov/9618.htm

Although according to reports, Michael never agreed to do the 50 shows, only 10.  The AEG aspect of the hoax has always bothered me because I can't figure out if they were a party to Michael's hoax plans or completely in the dark.  Katherine's lawsuit against them has been in the works for about 3 years now, claiming that AEG breached their side of the contract for being negligent toward the physical well-being of Michael.  AEG is some sort of side story with the hoax and I don't know what the heck is going on there, sometimes I think they must know, other times I'm  :suspect:

Wow Andrea that's a good catch, when did Michael sign the contract with AEG??
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Andrea on February 02, 2013, 02:17:29 PM
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This may have been mentioned before but suspicious mind, you mentioned statute of limitations which led my mind elsewhere.  In California, a lawsuit must be filed within 4 years of a breach of a written contract and once the 4 years is up, the legal claim is no longer valid.  Makes me wonder if MJ signed a contract with AEG, in California, and this is part of the 4 year time-frame plan.

http://www.courts.ca.gov/9618.htm

Although according to reports, Michael never agreed to do the 50 shows, only 10.  The AEG aspect of the hoax has always bothered me because I can't figure out if they were a party to Michael's hoax plans or completely in the dark.  Katherine's lawsuit against them has been in the works for about 3 years now, claiming that AEG breached their side of the contract for being negligent toward the physical well-being of Michael.  AEG is some sort of side story with the hoax and I don't know what the heck is going on there, sometimes I think they must know, other times I'm  :suspect:

Wow Andrea that's a good catch, when did Michael sign the contract with AEG??


I'm not sure when it was signed but I found this link: http://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2012/03/13/the-aeg-contract-with-michael-jackson/

I've started reading it but haven't gone through it all yet but it looks to have some very good info and I imagine others here have read it. There are screen shots of the AEG contract with Michael, addressed to Tohme Tohme, the website thinks this may show it's a letter of intent as opposed to a contract.  The first page of the letter/contract/agreement is dated January 26, 2009.  The vindicatemj website suggests fraud on AEG's part.
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: sweetsunsetwithMJ on February 02, 2013, 05:13:00 PM
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This may have been mentioned before but suspicious mind, you mentioned statute of limitations which led my mind elsewhere.  In California, a lawsuit must be filed within 4 years of a breach of a written contract and once the 4 years is up, the legal claim is no longer valid.  Makes me wonder if MJ signed a contract with AEG, in California, and this is part of the 4 year time-frame plan.

http://www.courts.ca.gov/9618.htm

Although according to reports, Michael never agreed to do the 50 shows, only 10.  The AEG aspect of the hoax has always bothered me because I can't figure out if they were a party to Michael's hoax plans or completely in the dark.  Katherine's lawsuit against them has been in the works for about 3 years now, claiming that AEG breached their side of the contract for being negligent toward the physical well-being of Michael.  AEG is some sort of side story with the hoax and I don't know what the heck is going on there, sometimes I think they must know, other times I'm  :suspect:

Wow Andrea that's a good catch, when did Michael sign the contract with AEG??


I'm not sure when it was signed but I found this link: http://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2012/03/13/the-aeg-contract-with-michael-jackson/

I've started reading it but haven't gone through it all yet but it looks to have some very good info and I imagine others here have read it. There are screen shots of the AEG contract with Michael, addressed to Tohme Tohme, the website thinks this may show it's a letter of intent as opposed to a contract.  The first page of the letter/contract/agreement is dated January 26, 2009.  The vindicatemj website suggests fraud on AEG's part.

Andrea thanks for sharing, exactly, it seems that there is no contract but a letter of intent, look at what wiki provides about it:

Litigation

In June 2009, concert promoter Allgood Entertainment represented by Ira Meyerowitz and Jon Kekielek of MJlawfirm sued Jackson for $40 million, claiming that the singer, through his manager Frank DiLeo, had agreed to a single and a $30 million reunion concert with The Jackson 5, as well as sister Janet Jackson. According to the concert promoter, the alleged contractual agreement prevented the singer from performing elsewhere before the reunion concert and for a three month period after it. Thus, agreeing to a 50 date residency at The O2 arena was an alleged breach of the Allgood Entertainment contract. The filing company stated that AEG Live knew of the alleged agreement with Jackson and used their dominance in the industry to coerce Jackson into agreeing to the residency.[54][55][56] In August 2010, the judge dismissed the case, stating that there was no evidence of a binding agreement, no contracts were signed.[57]



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Is_It_(concerts)
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Andrea on February 02, 2013, 05:23:32 PM
sweetsunset, that was a different contract that was never signed, for AllGood, that was supposedly arranged for a family concert with Michael, Janet and the brothers.  AllGood claims that the deal they made with Michael prohibited him from performing any other concerts within 3 months after the family concert - and the This It Is concerts supposedly breached that agreement. 
http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/10/jacko-accused-of-singing-conspiracy/

The AllGood lawsuit was dismissed because the contract was never signed by Michael or his brothers.
http://www.tmz.com/2010/08/19/michael-jackson-allgood-entertainment-lawsuit-dismissed-concerts-london-estate/

So that's the contract wiki is talking about, not the AEG one. 
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: MJonmind on February 03, 2013, 04:00:30 AM
Andrea, from your link, she says Exhibit A was tantamount to “slavery” on the part of AEG towards Michael, and Exhibit B signed by MJ seems binding.  I can't help but think again about Front's words still not fulfilled at Murray’s 2011 trial, but may be at the upcoming trial. 

(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/hoaxpic/images/exhibitbae.jpg)

Front from July 23, 11
Quote
28…   71…80…   37… 

roll that dice, gotta check it twice
centrifuging on the vial
Light Man spinning all the while
Exhibit B gonna rock that trial

the "N"ew, the "CHA_GE" --- if it makes you wonder
relapse back, mesh letter to number
won't be long 'til you hear that thunder……………
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on February 03, 2013, 04:48:56 AM
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Aussie, great post!  Oh...did you remove some of your post?  Yes, MJ is pleading with God in prayer!   I love how in the Earth song film, in answer to his prayer, everything is restored-- the dead man, dead elephant, chopped tree, dead earth, etc.  This is a picture of the restored earth prophesied in the Bible.  MJ knows his Bible extremely well IMO.

@ mjonmind, glad someone got to read it. I went to add something to it and wrote over it deleting my comments to Darkmaster. Was sooooo ticked off with myself. Tried to hit the back button but it was useless....

I'll write it again. It went something like this:



@Darkmaster, Earth song is MJ speaking / pleading with God.

What about all the things, That you said we were to gain...  Here he is speaking of prophecies of peace, clean earth, no more bloodshed, etc that are recorded in the Bible.

What about all the things, That you said was yours and mine... Again, same as above.

What about all the peace, That you pledge your only son...  Here he is speaking to God and referencing Jesus, his Only Begotten Son.

What about the holy land, Torn apart by creed... Holy land references ancient Israel / current day Middle east torn apart by fighting amongst christians/muslims/jewish. Jmo, but could be wrong on this.

To me this song has a clear message about the earth, but its not just about environment, it goes beyond that. And he is asking God, why, when how long. Pleading for change in more areas than just envrionmental.

I think 4 yrs is about comeback not environment. He understands only God can fix the worlds problems.



@MJonmind. Like your point about Abraham. An additional point is that approx 4000 years ago God promised peace / restoration of righteousness to the world via Abrahamic seed (Jesus being descendant or Abraham), in which all earthlings would be blessed and have peace. Genesis 18:22 "By means of your seed, all nations of the earth will bless themselves" It is as though MJ is pleading to God to make good on his promise.


BTW, MJonmind. I love you - Such a beautiful soul x
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Andrea on February 03, 2013, 08:46:33 AM

@MJonmind, I noticed the Exhibit B right away as well, and thought it was interesting that it was one of the few papers that was signed by MJ.  I couldn't make out all the legalese speak though and my understanding is an inducement letter is something that is often used in the music business.  The whole agreement itself seems to heavily favor AEG though and not Michael, or at least that was my take on it.
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Andrea on February 03, 2013, 11:02:25 AM
Actually MJonmind, you're right, Front didn't specify which trial he was referring to when he said, "Exhibit B gonna rock that trial" . Most of us just assumed he was referring to Murray's trial.  Brings to mind Front's words again "Never "ASS"ume anything!"  So maybe it is Katherine's AEG case...Maybe this is why this AEG case has been dragged out for so long, to get past the 4 years statute of limitations for breach of contract, to tie it in with the "end" of the hoax (possibly).  Although I still don't really "get" exactly what the letter is saying.  But re-reading paragraph 4 of Exhibit B, it says:

"Agrees that the undersigned's liability hereunder is direct and immediate, is not conditioned upon the pursuit by Promoter of any remedy Promoter may have against Artistco, and is secured by the collateral identified Paragraph 16.3 of the Agreement, which section is incoporated herein by this reference, and that the terms hereof are irrevocable, and any proceeding against the undersigned may be brought pursuant to the forum selection and choice of law provision contained in the Agreement;"

Then looking at what the collateral identified in paragraph 16.3 of the agreement:

“To secure the faithful performance of Artistco of Artistco’s and Artist’s obligations under this Agreement (including to repay the Advances), Artistco hereby grants Promoter a lien in all Artistco’s right, title and interest in, to, and under the following properties, assets and rights, wherever located, whether now owned or hereafter acquired or arising,and all proceeds and products thereof (all of the same being hereinafter referred to collectively as, the “Collateral”): contract rights or right to the payment of money in which Artisco and /or Artist has an interest, insurance claims and proceeds, commercial tort claims, securities and all other investmenet property, and all general intangibles(including all accounts receivable and payment intangibles). Artistco shall reasonably cooperate with Promoter in its efforts to perfect such security Interest”.


WTF?  Does that read to anybody else like AEG is saying if things don't go their way, they own everything Michael has and will have?? Like, EVERYTHING??  Now taking into account that AEG added 40 shows on top of the 10 Michael agreed to, it seems AEG was literally "banking" on the fact that Michael wouldn't be able to do all 50 and they would take everything he has and also take back the advances that Michael earned if he had been able to perform some of the shows.  They planned to overwork Michael and then steal from him - his music catalogue, everything - or so it would very much seem!!  No wonder they didn't care about Michael's health! They wanted him to fail!  But Michael knew exactly that, he had Kenny Ortega email his concerns to Randy Phillips but it fell on deaf ears.  AEG was trying to set Michael up for a fall but Michael turned the tables on them. He knew what he was signing, he knew what AEG was trying do and he knew he wasn't going to do a single concert for them.  Ha!


Now THAT would rock the trial!


Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: sweetsunsetwithMJ on February 03, 2013, 11:39:14 AM
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sweetsunset, that was a different contract that was never signed, for AllGood, that was supposedly arranged for a family concert with Michael, Janet and the brothers.  AllGood claims that the deal they made with Michael prohibited him from performing any other concerts within 3 months after the family concert - and the This It Is concerts supposedly breached that agreement. 
http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/10/jacko-accused-of-singing-conspiracy/

The AllGood lawsuit was dismissed because the contract was never signed by Michael or his brothers.
http://www.tmz.com/2010/08/19/michael-jackson-allgood-entertainment-lawsuit-dismissed-concerts-london-estate/

So that's the contract wiki is talking about, not the AEG one.

Thanks for claryfing Andrea, I read it twice and I thought the first paragraph was talking about the AllGood Jackson family concert and the second paragraph was talking about the AEG's 50 concerts contract.
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: sweetsunsetwithMJ on February 03, 2013, 11:57:20 AM
Everyday I am more convinced that those concerts were meant to be and Michael was able to scape them for the sake of his own health, thank God.
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: hesouttamylife on February 03, 2013, 01:24:10 PM
The stipulations and collaterals in that AEG contract is the reason I don’t trust them as far as I can throw them.  Michael stood to lose everything had he signed that crap.  It’s a joke.
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: MJonmind on February 04, 2013, 01:01:45 AM
Aussie,
Quote
@MJonmind. Like your point about Abraham. An additional point is that approx 4000 years ago God promised peace / restoration of righteousness to the world via Abrahamic seed (Jesus being descendant or Abraham), in which all earthlings would be blessed and have peace. Genesis 18:22 "By means of your seed, all nations of the earth will bless themselves" It is as though MJ is pleading to God to make good on his promise.
This is a very good point!  Especially for my view, that African Americans are a predominate part of descendants of the true Israelites of the Bible, and I’m sure MJ is aware of that perspective as well, though never discusses it.  It’s bigger in Afr Am culture/circles.  http://www.hebrewisraelites.org/

And I love you too!

Andrea, “legalese” is right. Most of it goes right over my head.  (Notice that the writer of that blog is an MJ ‘deader’ though, which changes things drastically.)
Quote
WTF?  Does that read to anybody else like AEG is saying if things don't go their way, they own everything Michael has and will have?? Like, EVERYTHING??  Now taking into account that AEG added 40 shows on top of the 10 Michael agreed to, it seems AEG was literally "banking" on the fact that Michael wouldn't be able to do all 50 and they would take everything he has and also take back the advances that Michael earned if he had been able to perform some of the shows.  They planned to overwork Michael and then steal from him - his music catalogue, everything - or so it would very much seem!!  No wonder they didn't care about Michael's health! They wanted him to fail!  But Michael knew exactly that, he had Kenny Ortega email his concerns to Randy Phillips but it fell on deaf ears.  AEG was trying to set Michael up for a fall but Michael turned the tables on them. He knew what he was signing, he knew what AEG was trying do and he knew he wasn't going to do a single concert for them.  Ha!

Now THAT would rock the trial!
Wow, you worded it so well!   And remember how Joe and Latoya kept saying Murray was just the fall guy, and that they KNEW who was behind it. So I’m thinking the Murray trial was pretty great, but this AEG trial is going to be the foundational meat and potatoes trial, where we’ll get to the bottom of things. It will involve TT, Colony, and Randy Phillips, and the real ‘killer’ behind MJ’s ‘death’.  But I believe MJ is telling a story in all this—masterfully, and it’s going to be astounding and breathtaking!  I believe TS and Front let us down on purpose, leading us into the next chapter—suspense, nail-biting, edge-of-your-seat, crushing disappointment, climax, etc.

Hes and Sweet, you could be right and I could be wrong-- it's just where I'm at thus far and maybe it's wishful thinking.
Here is a video with testimony from someone who worked in TII, about Randy Phillips, Kenny Ortega, and AEG, from the perspective that they were mean and pushing MJ, and MJ was frustrated and insecure.  So was this all acting, or real?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDaTZUDbSyQ&feature=player_embedded



Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Faithad777 on February 04, 2013, 04:34:45 PM
I'm confused about this too.  I keep thinking that Sony and Michael's Estate are so quick in taking off of the internet videos and anything else that they just don't approve of or because of copyright privacy issues. Then how could they let this site/forum be up all these years?  The believers on this forum are such a small number compared to the rest of the fans who believe that Michael has died.
So, I know that the discussion/argument was that what effect can such a small number of fans have over the much larger non-believer fans.  It is very simple.  The saying "divide and conquer" comes to mind here.  Sony, the estate, AEG, TPTB all care about making money and power, what they have is never enough, they always want more,  and they are worried about the backlash they would get from MJ fans all over the world if the info. that's out there about Michael is not what the fans want to hear or it doesn't represent Michael in a positive light, the kind, generous and humble way that he always lived his life helping others whenever he could. They are aware that MJ fans are very protective of MJ, and MJ is very protective of his fans, that MJ fans have a very different relationship with him than any other actor/singer/performer has with his/her fans.


This is how they win again, when the non-believer fans want revenge on Michael's death, believe that the estate (Branca and others)
are a bunch of thieves that can't be trusted, the believer fans say no, Michael IS the estate, whatever the estate is doing is approved by Michael.... I know we debated this topic all the time, we are not sure about the estate, but we are still divided....

I'm just worried that we may have been played, even after all the investigating, reading and analyzing we've done here on the forum. I do trust Front 100%, but these are my concerns that will not go away.
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: hesouttamylife on February 04, 2013, 04:59:18 PM
The Exihibit B that is posted I have always thought was signed (forged) by Tohme Tohme as Michael’s business manager. It infuriates me that it is stated on that exhibit that facsimile copies would be accepted and binding.  I mean come on... with this kind of income, collateral and performance obligation, it would certainly call for signatures being witnessed and notarized at the least in person.  I can’t even get a 10 cent loan without doing it in person certainly this kind of commitment warrants as much and of course much, much more. 
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Andrea on February 04, 2013, 05:19:24 PM
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Andrea, “legalese” is right. Most of it goes right over my head.  (Notice that the writer of that blog is an MJ ‘deader’ though, which changes things drastically.)
Quote
WTF?  Does that read to anybody else like AEG is saying if things don't go their way, they own everything Michael has and will have?? Like, EVERYTHING??  Now taking into account that AEG added 40 shows on top of the 10 Michael agreed to, it seems AEG was literally "banking" on the fact that Michael wouldn't be able to do all 50 and they would take everything he has and also take back the advances that Michael earned if he had been able to perform some of the shows.  They planned to overwork Michael and then steal from him - his music catalogue, everything - or so it would very much seem!!  No wonder they didn't care about Michael's health! They wanted him to fail!  But Michael knew exactly that, he had Kenny Ortega email his concerns to Randy Phillips but it fell on deaf ears.  AEG was trying to set Michael up for a fall but Michael turned the tables on them. He knew what he was signing, he knew what AEG was trying do and he knew he wasn't going to do a single concert for them.  Ha!

Now THAT would rock the trial!
Wow, you worded it so well!   And remember how Joe and Latoya kept saying Murray was just the fall guy, and that they KNEW who was behind it. So I’m thinking the Murray trial was pretty great, but this AEG trial is going to be the foundational meat and potatoes trial, where we’ll get to the bottom of things. It will involve TT, Colony, and Randy Phillips, and the real ‘killer’ behind MJ’s ‘death’.  But I believe MJ is telling a story in all this—masterfully, and it’s going to be astounding and breathtaking!  I believe TS and Front let us down on purpose, leading us into the next chapter—suspense, nail-biting, edge-of-your-seat, crushing disappointment, climax, etc.

Hes and Sweet, you could be right and I could be wrong-- it's just where I'm at thus far and maybe it's wishful thinking.
Here is a video with testimony from someone who worked in TII, about Randy Phillips, Kenny Ortega, and AEG, from the perspective that they were mean and pushing MJ, and MJ was frustrated and insecure.  So was this all acting, or real?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDaTZUDbSyQ&feature=player_embedded


Just some thoughts... I believe that Kenny Ortega sent the email to Randy Phillips at Michael's request, knowing that AEG would ignore it and push Michael as much as they could.  I don't believe that Michael was actually weak, frail, sick, rambling, whatever else that was said in the email - although I do think it's possible that Michael lost a bit of weight to appear this way and may have acted out of character, for believability from witnesses later on.  Maybe Michael became aware of a plan that didn't necessarily involve killing him, but taking away everything he had.  Nobody should be underestimated when huge amounts of money are involved, just because you or I wouldn't do it doesn't mean somebody else won't.  So Michael was aware of this plan, which may have been in the works for years.  Michael finally agrees to do the TII tour, knowing AEG will take the bait and try to screw him out of his money.  The timing of the tour would need to match up with Michael's hoax plans and when the tour was to happen would be totally up to Michael so AEG (or whoever else) would have to wait until Michael says so.  Michael signs the agreement then acts like he can't handle doing all the shows, like he's doped up or something, while the money grubbers are salivating and rubbing their hands together waiting for their big pay day.  But Michael fakes his death, as planned.  Maybe there's a sting there??

Like I said, just some thoughts.
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: hesouttamylife on February 04, 2013, 05:51:05 PM
Now we’re talking what I’ve been talking for almost 4 years.  I love it  :th_bravo:
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Andrea on February 04, 2013, 06:23:16 PM
LOL, hes.  The thing is though, if my interpretation of Exhibit B (to the TII concerts agreement) is way off base then that theory doesn't have any legs.  But it does seem very much like AEG fully intended to take everything they could from Michael if he couldn't perform all the shows.  They didn't think he could but in the off chance (in their opinion) that he did, well, they would still have some concert revenue so it wouldn't be a total loss.  That's why I don't really think their plan was to kill him (which means Murray isn't on their side) because then they wouldn't get his assets/money, it would be left to whoever Michael left it to.  Michael insisting on having Murray as his doctor would "show" AEG (and/or whoever else) that Michael is "not well" - which is yay! for "them" because all is going according to their plan of MJ not being capable of performing - but Murray is working with Michael, knowing his patient would be "dead" before the tour could start.  This theory could also go hand in hand with the Live MJ theory, if the biggest objection to Live MJ was MJ's safety on June 25th because in this case, "they" wanted MJ alive because that's the only way they could get their hands on his money.


This would also prove what Michael said years ago, that the music industry cheats and steals from their artists, especially black artists.  That the companies really do conspire against their artists.  Michael said that several black artists were victims of the music industry, that some had died penniless, forcing them to perform into old age just to make money to survive.
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: hesouttamylife on February 04, 2013, 07:40:42 PM
I think towards hoax day Murray was on Michael’s side because his hypocratic oath would not consciously allow him to do anything criminal.  I do believe he was hired by AEG and that he went into Michael’s service well intended, unaware of what he was getting involved in. AEG found him a willing participant because he was strapped for cash and this meant long money for him. (Though as it turns out it seems he didn’t get one cent) That being the reason that Murray had to go to trial and be accused of killing Michael, be found guilty as charged, and sentenced…a coverup possibly for his own safety being that he duped the plan.  It is also the reason I don’t believe Murray is in jail but somewhere “safe" until all this is aired out in court.  Branca has never been my favorite person & I still believe that he made that call on his own accord.  I don’t believe Michael was sick but that he was playing it to the hilt.  He had to.  I could be completely wrong, however.  I keep remembering that statement that he was worth more dead than alive. Truth is if Michael had taken the risk with that contract & lost everything because he failed to perform all those shows that would have been a different kind of death for him. Not a pleasant thought  :icon_eek: I want this hoax to be over so we can get some kind of confirmation that Michael is back be it in the spotlight or behind the scene, so bad I can almost taste it.  :Crash:  However patience is a virtue and all things in due Time  :icon_e_confused:
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Andrea on February 04, 2013, 08:23:44 PM
I agree that Murray was the fall guy but I think his role in the hoax was more of a hoax character than his real personality.  The character had several baby mamas, a wife, several girlfriends who appeared at the trial, he couldn’t perform CPR, was broke, etc. Remember that everyone said Michael was strapped for cash too.  Murray also spoke harshly about Phillips in that documentary, claiming Phillips was ticked off that Michael was costing him so much money, for bodyguards and toilet paper (lol) among other things, saying that if Michael didn’t get the show done, he (MJ) was OVER, this was his last chance, that financially he had nothing, zero. 
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGVc0ZZyXiQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGVc0ZZyXiQ)
 
There are just too many parallels between Michael and Murray and between their trials.  Murray has spoken of Michael's family like they are his own, and released video statements defending Michael, talking like Michael.  I'm not saying he is Michael in disguise but his voice has represented Michael at times.  This video shows both statements, mashed together.  I do believe that Murray was brought in by Michael, not AEG.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLW2E2kOn6w (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLW2E2kOn6w)
 
I have more thoughts on Murray’s trial but they are sort of vague and not coherent yet, I need to think on that some more.

Quote
I want this hoax to be over so we can get some kind of confirmation that Michael is back be it in the spotlight or behind the scene, so bad I can almost taste it. However patience is a virtue and all things in due Time

YES, I feel the same!
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: MJonmind on February 05, 2013, 01:45:00 AM
Andrea
Quote
Just some thoughts... I believe that Kenny Ortega sent the email to Randy Phillips at Michael's request, knowing that AEG would ignore it and push Michael as much as they could. I don't believe that Michael was actually weak, frail, sick, rambling, whatever else that was said in the email - although I do think it's possible that Michael lost a bit of weight to appear this way and may have acted out of character, for believability from witnesses later on.  Maybe Michael became aware of a plan that didn't necessarily involve killing him, but taking away everything he had.  Nobody should be underestimated when huge amounts of money are involved, just because you or I wouldn't do it doesn't mean somebody else won't.  So Michael was aware of this plan, which may have been in the works for years.  Michael finally agrees to do the TII tour, knowing AEG will take the bait and try to screw him out of his money.  The timing of the tour would need to match up with Michael's hoax plans and when the tour was to happen would be totally up to Michael so AEG (or whoever else) would have to wait until Michael says so.  Michael signs the agreement then acts like he can't handle doing all the shows, like he's doped up or something, while the money grubbers are salivating and rubbing their hands together waiting for their big pay day.  But Michael fakes his death, as planned.  Maybe there's a sting there??
Could be a sting, and could be AEG is involved in the drama, but perhaps we'll find out more in the months ahead.  About MJ's weight-loss, do you remember the Dick Gregory interview on the ‘death’ day June 25, 09?  According to him, sometime between MJ’s 2005 trial and James Brown’s funeral Dec 28, 2006, MJ did a 40 day fast on only water, and nearly died (MJ was inspired to fast by DG’s 40 day fast during MJ’s 2005 trial for “the truth to come out”). DG said he fasted to get close to the father (God).
http://www.foxnews.com/story/2009/06/26/dick-gregory-it-happened-so-fast

Perhaps MJ did another 40 day fast close to the start of the TII rehearsals, which caused his gaunt appearance.
Jesus fasted 40 days at the beginning of his 3 1/2 year ministry, and then was tempted by the devil. 
TS gives this Bible story reference in his talk on MJ, the Bible and good versus evil battle, in Nov. 28,11.
Quote
On the other hand, this does not mean that MJ is paranoid, and always looking at who is behind him, etc.  No, his faith in God saves him from paranoia; but true faith in God does not make people careless, or cause you to take unnecessary risks (see Matthew 4:5-7).
 
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: shorty on February 05, 2013, 06:11:02 AM
I agree with you Andrea, think that Murray was and is hired by Michael. I look the video which MJonmind was given on the other side, and the ''insider'' says there was something
fishy with the rehearsal between Ortega, Payne and Phillips. I believe that Ortega is on Michaels side, and the concert was never planned to fulfill. Was this the plan from the start,
to bring AEG before court ???? Think about, Murray have no license for London to work. A long planned thing from 2007. If this so, i can say brilliant, Michael.
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: hesouttamylife on February 05, 2013, 08:57:21 AM
I’ll have plenty of questions for Murray when I visit him in “jail”  :thjajaja121:  Right off the bat: did you kill Michael Jackson & who hired you in the first place  :thjajaja121:
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: MJonmind on February 06, 2013, 12:03:20 AM
Andrea
Quote
LOL, hes.  The thing is though, if my interpretation of Exhibit B (to the TII concerts agreement) is way off base then that theory doesn't have any legs.  But it does seem very much like AEG fully intended to take everything they could from Michael if he couldn't perform all the shows.  They didn't think he could but in the off chance (in their opinion) that he did, well, they would still have some concert revenue so it wouldn't be a total loss.  That's why I don't really think their plan was to kill him (which means Murray isn't on their side) because then they wouldn't get his assets/money, it would be left to whoever Michael left it to.  Michael insisting on having Murray as his doctor would "show" AEG (and/or whoever else) that Michael is "not well" - which is yay! for "them" because all is going according to their plan of MJ not being capable of performing - but Murray is working with Michael, knowing his patient would be "dead" before the tour could start.  This theory could also go hand in hand with the Live MJ theory, if the biggest objection to Live MJ was MJ's safety on June 25th because in this case, "they" wanted MJ alive because that's the only way they could get their hands on his money.

Why did Randy Phillips say on June 24, 09 that the last thing MJ said to him was, "Thank you for taking me this far; I can take it from here"?
Why did Kenny Ortega say in the court preliminaries that MJ was going to perform an illusion the next day, on the 25th, to disappear from the bed?
Why Conrad Murray? We know MJ really knows his old movies and TV shows.
Quote
"The Court of Last Resort was founded by Erle Stanley Gardner in the 1950s. The team sought to reveal whether someone already found guilty might really be innocent. The show dramatized the original crime then followed the investigation. Actual cases were used "

This video points out that there was a 1957 (yep check that 5 and 7 first) TV show about investorgators who went back in time to solve crimes that had put innocent people behind bars.
One was titled 'The Conrad Murray Case'.....think that turns your lightbulb on..wait for this,the actor-yes...another Actor...lol..who played Conrad Murray in this TV show episode...was also in a tv show called THIS IS IT something called 'THE SCARECROWE and another one called....THRILLER.......don't we know someone else who has been in all those roles/movies too???....nah...couldn't be...could it?

It was also the 7th Episode in the series. http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forum/index.php/topic,14670.msg300384.html#msg300384
Why do we clearly hear Michael say in two separate interviews that he heard about Princess Diana's death when the doctor woke him up, in other words from propofol?  We've already long discussed how it would be impossible to be put under night after night by propofol, and then have the energy to dance and rehearse during the day.
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Shrimp on February 06, 2013, 02:38:41 AM
I just found out something else about the actor playing Conrad Murray in the TV show episode.

There are some titles of movies and TV shows he did that in my opinion could have a connection with Michael (you can check it out yourself on http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0853299/?ref_=tt_cl_t9), but this one stood out for me: he was also in a movie/TV show called "Back at the Front". Just thought it was worth mentioning...
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: sweetsunsetwithMJ on February 06, 2013, 09:16:17 AM
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I just found out something else about the actor playing Conrad Murray in the TV show episode.

There are some titles of movies and TV shows he did that in my opinion could have a connection with Michael (you can check it out yourself on http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0853299/?ref_=tt_cl_t9), but this one stood out for me: he was also in a movie/TV show called "Back at the Front". Just thought it was worth mentioning...

Sorry your link doesn't show anything relating to what you have said or maybe I didn't see it. Could you please give us a link where he was playing "Back at the Front"??
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Shrimp on February 06, 2013, 10:05:14 AM
If you scroll down, you see a list of all the movies/TV shows this actor played in, sorted by date (year). "Back at the Front" is from 1952.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0044390/  This is a link to the movie. The actor I'm talking about (so the one who is also playing the character of Conrad Murray in another TV show, is Vaughn Taylor.
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Girl_In_the_Mirror on February 06, 2013, 03:14:42 PM
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Andrea, “legalese” is right. Most of it goes right over my head.  (Notice that the writer of that blog is an MJ ‘deader’ though, which changes things drastically.)
Quote
WTF?  Does that read to anybody else like AEG is saying if things don't go their way, they own everything Michael has and will have?? Like, EVERYTHING??  Now taking into account that AEG added 40 shows on top of the 10 Michael agreed to, it seems AEG was literally "banking" on the fact that Michael wouldn't be able to do all 50 and they would take everything he has and also take back the advances that Michael earned if he had been able to perform some of the shows.  They planned to overwork Michael and then steal from him - his music catalogue, everything - or so it would very much seem!!  No wonder they didn't care about Michael's health! They wanted him to fail!  But Michael knew exactly that, he had Kenny Ortega email his concerns to Randy Phillips but it fell on deaf ears.  AEG was trying to set Michael up for a fall but Michael turned the tables on them. He knew what he was signing, he knew what AEG was trying do and he knew he wasn't going to do a single concert for them.  Ha!

Now THAT would rock the trial!
Wow, you worded it so well!   And remember how Joe and Latoya kept saying Murray was just the fall guy, and that they KNEW who was behind it. So I’m thinking the Murray trial was pretty great, but this AEG trial is going to be the foundational meat and potatoes trial, where we’ll get to the bottom of things. It will involve TT, Colony, and Randy Phillips, and the real ‘killer’ behind MJ’s ‘death’.  But I believe MJ is telling a story in all this—masterfully, and it’s going to be astounding and breathtaking!  I believe TS and Front let us down on purpose, leading us into the next chapter—suspense, nail-biting, edge-of-your-seat, crushing disappointment, climax, etc.

Hes and Sweet, you could be right and I could be wrong-- it's just where I'm at thus far and maybe it's wishful thinking.
Here is a video with testimony from someone who worked in TII, about Randy Phillips, Kenny Ortega, and AEG, from the perspective that they were mean and pushing MJ, and MJ was frustrated and insecure.  So was this all acting, or real?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDaTZUDbSyQ&feature=player_embedded


Just some thoughts... I believe that Kenny Ortega sent the email to Randy Phillips at Michael's request, knowing that AEG would ignore it and push Michael as much as they could.  I don't believe that Michael was actually weak, frail, sick, rambling, whatever else that was said in the email - although I do think it's possible that Michael lost a bit of weight to appear this way and may have acted out of character, for believability from witnesses later on.  Maybe Michael became aware of a plan that didn't necessarily involve killing him, but taking away everything he had.  Nobody should be underestimated when huge amounts of money are involved, just because you or I wouldn't do it doesn't mean somebody else won't.  So Michael was aware of this plan, which may have been in the works for years.  Michael finally agrees to do the TII tour, knowing AEG will take the bait and try to screw him out of his money.  The timing of the tour would need to match up with Michael's hoax plans and when the tour was to happen would be totally up to Michael so AEG (or whoever else) would have to wait until Michael says so.  Michael signs the agreement then acts like he can't handle doing all the shows, like he's doped up or something, while the money grubbers are salivating and rubbing their hands together waiting for their big pay day.  But Michael fakes his death, as planned.  Maybe there's a sting there??

Like I said, just some thoughts.

Well, seems to me it's very likely that this is what has actually happened.
But, unfortunately "very likely" doesn't equal "it did happen". :(

Who knows... :Michael_Jackson_smiley_by_red

Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Girl_In_the_Mirror on February 11, 2013, 01:32:17 AM
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Andrea, “legalese” is right. Most of it goes right over my head.  (Notice that the writer of that blog is an MJ ‘deader’ though, which changes things drastically.)
Quote
WTF?  Does that read to anybody else like AEG is saying if things don't go their way, they own everything Michael has and will have?? Like, EVERYTHING??  Now taking into account that AEG added 40 shows on top of the 10 Michael agreed to, it seems AEG was literally "banking" on the fact that Michael wouldn't be able to do all 50 and they would take everything he has and also take back the advances that Michael earned if he had been able to perform some of the shows.  They planned to overwork Michael and then steal from him - his music catalogue, everything - or so it would very much seem!!  No wonder they didn't care about Michael's health! They wanted him to fail!  But Michael knew exactly that, he had Kenny Ortega email his concerns to Randy Phillips but it fell on deaf ears.  AEG was trying to set Michael up for a fall but Michael turned the tables on them. He knew what he was signing, he knew what AEG was trying do and he knew he wasn't going to do a single concert for them.  Ha!

Now THAT would rock the trial!
Wow, you worded it so well!   And remember how Joe and Latoya kept saying Murray was just the fall guy, and that they KNEW who was behind it. So I’m thinking the Murray trial was pretty great, but this AEG trial is going to be the foundational meat and potatoes trial, where we’ll get to the bottom of things. It will involve TT, Colony, and Randy Phillips, and the real ‘killer’ behind MJ’s ‘death’.  But I believe MJ is telling a story in all this—masterfully, and it’s going to be astounding and breathtaking!  I believe TS and Front let us down on purpose, leading us into the next chapter—suspense, nail-biting, edge-of-your-seat, crushing disappointment, climax, etc.

Hes and Sweet, you could be right and I could be wrong-- it's just where I'm at thus far and maybe it's wishful thinking.
Here is a video with testimony from someone who worked in TII, about Randy Phillips, Kenny Ortega, and AEG, from the perspective that they were mean and pushing MJ, and MJ was frustrated and insecure.  So was this all acting, or real?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDaTZUDbSyQ&feature=player_embedded


Just some thoughts... I believe that Kenny Ortega sent the email to Randy Phillips at Michael's request, knowing that AEG would ignore it and push Michael as much as they could.  I don't believe that Michael was actually weak, frail, sick, rambling, whatever else that was said in the email - although I do think it's possible that Michael lost a bit of weight to appear this way and may have acted out of character, for believability from witnesses later on.  Maybe Michael became aware of a plan that didn't necessarily involve killing him, but taking away everything he had.  Nobody should be underestimated when huge amounts of money are involved, just because you or I wouldn't do it doesn't mean somebody else won't.  So Michael was aware of this plan, which may have been in the works for years.  Michael finally agrees to do the TII tour, knowing AEG will take the bait and try to screw him out of his money.  The timing of the tour would need to match up with Michael's hoax plans and when the tour was to happen would be totally up to Michael so AEG (or whoever else) would have to wait until Michael says so.  Michael signs the agreement then acts like he can't handle doing all the shows, like he's doped up or something, while the money grubbers are salivating and rubbing their hands together waiting for their big pay day.  But Michael fakes his death, as planned.  Maybe there's a sting there??

Like I said, just some thoughts.

Well, seems to me it's very likely that this is what has actually happened.
But, unfortunately "very likely" doesn't equal "it did happen". :(

Who knows... :Michael_Jackson_smiley_by_red
What if Michael sends us the message that we have four more years to try and help the planet? Try and be kind, volunteer, donate, help children around the world, help the planet in general, and do our best to help send his message? I know I might sound weird... but I watched TII yesterday for the second time.. and the feeling that I was left with was... ok, I'll be back, but I might not be, if you don't spread this message and help for a better planet the next 4 years to come...
I might sound ever weirder... but I saw some things on youtube... i am nost sure what to make of the Illuminati things and all, but all I am saying is that the songs he decided to sing on TII, are very much like ...chosen in a particular sequence/order..it's like a message he's sending, if we look closely at the song titles... like he's trying to say... that all those bad people who currently make the World Order will be punished for what they did to us, to the planet, because good will finally prevail. So, I'm starting to think that he wanted us not only form a forum and talk about him (which I think he likes and respects) - but also do something about what he loved and respected - that is, the Planet, the children, the poor.
What if we let this slip away, and didn't get the main point?
Sorry, I may be out of line a little, maybe my sensitive side and the fact that I am fan of MJ might have blurred my thoughts a lil' bit... but I tell you, I watched TII and I feel like this is it, you know... like this is what he wanted from us in the first place.
Hope I didn't bother you with all this.
 :smiley_abuv: :moonwalk_:
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: everlastinglove_MJ on February 11, 2013, 04:45:30 PM
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What if Michael sends us the message that we have four more years to try and help the planet? Try and be kind, volunteer, donate, help children around the world, help the planet in general, and do our best to help send his message? I know I might sound weird... but I watched TII yesterday for the second time.. and the feeling that I was left with was... ok, I'll be back, but I might not be, if you don't spread this message and help for a better planet the next 4 years to come...
I might sound ever weirder... but I saw some things on youtube... i am nost sure what to make of the Illuminati things and all, but all I am saying is that the songs he decided to sing on TII, are very much like ...chosen in a particular sequence/order..it's like a message he's sending, if we look closely at the song titles... like he's trying to say... that all those bad people who currently make the World Order will be punished for what they did to us, to the planet, because good will finally prevail. So, I'm starting to think that he wanted us not only form a forum and talk about him (which I think he likes and respects) - but also do something about what he loved and respected - that is, the Planet, the children, the poor.
What if we let this slip away, and didn't get the main point?
Sorry, I may be out of line a little, maybe my sensitive side and the fact that I am fan of MJ might have blurred my thoughts a lil' bit... but I tell you, I watched TII and I feel like this is it, you know... like this is what he wanted from us in the first place.
Hope I didn't bother you with all this.
 :smiley_abuv: :moonwalk_:

Absolutely!! (and no you didn't bother me with your post :). This is the message I see/hear when I watch This Is It. And no one can express this important wake up call better than MJ.

LOVE
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: bonnie2013 on February 11, 2013, 09:06:21 PM
From what I have found... Obama's official twitter page follows almost everyone who is following him. It's done as a courtesy. Sp if Pearl Jr. stated following his page, his page AUTOMATICALLY stated following her.

http://socialnewswatch.com/top-twitter-users/

If you check the link above... Obama is the #1 celebrity that will follow you back
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Girl_In_the_Mirror on February 12, 2013, 11:39:16 AM
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What if Michael sends us the message that we have four more years to try and help the planet? Try and be kind, volunteer, donate, help children around the world, help the planet in general, and do our best to help send his message? I know I might sound weird... but I watched TII yesterday for the second time.. and the feeling that I was left with was... ok, I'll be back, but I might not be, if you don't spread this message and help for a better planet the next 4 years to come...
I might sound ever weirder... but I saw some things on youtube... i am nost sure what to make of the Illuminati things and all, but all I am saying is that the songs he decided to sing on TII, are very much like ...chosen in a particular sequence/order..it's like a message he's sending, if we look closely at the song titles... like he's trying to say... that all those bad people who currently make the World Order will be punished for what they did to us, to the planet, because good will finally prevail. So, I'm starting to think that he wanted us not only form a forum and talk about him (which I think he likes and respects) - but also do something about what he loved and respected - that is, the Planet, the children, the poor.
What if we let this slip away, and didn't get the main point?
Sorry, I may be out of line a little, maybe my sensitive side and the fact that I am fan of MJ might have blurred my thoughts a lil' bit... but I tell you, I watched TII and I feel like this is it, you know... like this is what he wanted from us in the first place.
Hope I didn't bother you with all this.
 :smiley_abuv: :moonwalk_:

Absolutely!! (and no you didn't bother me with your post :). This is the message I see/hear when I watch This Is It. And no one can express this important wake up call better than MJ.

LOVE
Thank you, everlastinglove_MJ for your sweet thoughts... I was afraid of  not being considered some sort of a weirdo... :p
What I'm gonna say the next 10/12 rows here it's not about bragging myself, it's not about showing off, or posing into some kind of person who wants to impress others, but it's about something which comes from deep within my heart. After I wrote those things about me having watched TII 2 times in a row, and catching that message, which I'm sure that all MJ fans caught - helping the children, the poor, the planet itself, strange interesting things started happening to me, and I mean it: like never before, I've started to meet poor people, poor children on my way home, after my work @ the office was done: in the bus, on the street corner, they were like everywhere. Like in any city, my city has also poor people, but like never before had I seen so many. So I took it as a sign, and I thought...no matter what, I choose to believe MJ's alive, but even if, God forbid, he is not, it is my job to be a good person...and so I started putting myself in those people's shoes... and I made certain packages with some clothes and food, and gave them...I didn't help all of them:( unfortunately, but it was a small thing that I did from the bottom of my heart! And today, in the bus, an old man, whose face reminded me of Santa Claus, with grey hair and a very long white beard, and his eyes so blue, and innocent... was travelling to see his wife in the hospital; my God, he was poor, and I started to cry, seeing his eyes... the purity and the hard life he had....so when the bus stopped in the station near the hospital, I got off with him, gave him some money. He cried. And I cried too...  I would've talked to him for hrs, if it hadnt been for his wife, waiting for him to visit her. We went to buy something for his wife, some clothes and food. But I wish I 'd done more...

What I did was nothing compared to what you or other people did, and first, compared to what MJ did for the children and the poor. But I'm just saying...if all of us in the world started doing small things, small tokens of kindness, from the heart,  maybe, just maybe then Mike would feel like it's a safer and better world for him to return. Maybe then he would feel that his dream, of us, his people, helping the planet, came true, and that it's high time for him to be back. ....

Pls do not take all those mentioned before, like I'm bragging or something. It's all the opposite. I feel terrible and completely upset with myself for not having done that all the time, cause sometimes, in my rush for work or for other "important" things I pass by them and my mind is some place else. I think this is exactly what Mike wouldn't want us to do: pass by poor children/adults/elderly people ... pretending that they're not there.
:( So, if you allow me this idea/advice, let's all do that... like Mike said...if one person would help just one child, it would be still wonderful! It would make a difference!

Thank you! :)
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: wishingstar on February 12, 2013, 12:12:50 PM
I'd say you got it right girl_in_the_mirror.........thank you for sharing, thank you for caring........
Bless you always........
LOVE
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: hesouttamylife on February 12, 2013, 12:54:48 PM
I love what girl_in_the_mirror wrote.  I also believe that in Michael’s messages is the premise that we should, all of us, pay it forward and share with people who are less fortunate than ourselves.  It’s not the measure of the man that matters but what’s in his heart the counts.  We can be a blessing in so many ways to so many and it doesn’t take excess to accomplish that.  A smile, a hug, sharing a meal or simply being an ear to listen to the stories.  God Bless you!  You are making a difference.   :bearhug:
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Girl_In_the_Mirror on February 12, 2013, 01:03:15 PM
 :bearhug: :bearhug:
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I love what girl_in_the_mirror wrote.  I also believe that in Michael’s messages is the premise that we should, all of us, pay it forward and share with people who are less fortunate than ourselves.  It’s not the measure of the man that matters but what’s in his heart the counts.  We can be a blessing in so many ways to so many and it doesn’t take excess to accomplish that.  A smile, a hug, sharing a meal or simply being an ear to listen to the stories.  God Bless you!  You are making a difference.    :bearhug:
  :bearhug: thank you for your beautiful, wise words hesouttamylife!!!!

It’s not the measure of the man that matters but what’s in his heart the counts.  We can be a blessing in so many ways to so many and it doesn’t take excess to accomplish that.  A smile, a hug, sharing a meal or simply being an ear to listen to the stories.

 :-*
 :abouttime:
 :moonwalk_:
 :bearhug:
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Girl_In_the_Mirror on February 12, 2013, 01:06:04 PM
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I'd say you got it right girl_in_the_mirror.........thank you for sharing, thank you for caring........
Bless you always........
LOVE
thank you, Wishingstar! God Bless You, too!
 :bearhug:
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: blankie on February 12, 2013, 05:20:22 PM
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I love what girl_in_the_mirror wrote.  I also believe that in Michael’s messages is the premise that we should, all of us, pay it forward and share with people who are less fortunate than ourselves.  It’s not the measure of the man that matters but what’s in his heart the counts.  We can be a blessing in so many ways to so many and it doesn’t take excess to accomplish that.  A smile, a hug, sharing a meal or simply being an ear to listen to the stories.  God Bless you!  You are making a difference.   :bearhug:


 :th_bravo: :bearhug:
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: MJonmind on February 13, 2013, 12:53:05 AM
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I love what girl_in_the_mirror wrote.  I also believe that in Michael’s messages is the premise that we should, all of us, pay it forward and share with people who are less fortunate than ourselves.  It’s not the measure of the man that matters but what’s in his heart the counts.  We can be a blessing in so many ways to so many and it doesn’t take excess to accomplish that.  A smile, a hug, sharing a meal or simply being an ear to listen to the stories.  God Bless you!  You are making a difference.   :bearhug:


 :th_bravo: :bearhug:
You have a big heart! (http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/smileys/heart-smiley.gif?1292867614)
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: Girl_In_the_Mirror on February 13, 2013, 02:06:31 AM
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I love what girl_in_the_mirror wrote.  I also believe that in Michael’s messages is the premise that we should, all of us, pay it forward and share with people who are less fortunate than ourselves.  It’s not the measure of the man that matters but what’s in his heart the counts.  We can be a blessing in so many ways to so many and it doesn’t take excess to accomplish that.  A smile, a hug, sharing a meal or simply being an ear to listen to the stories.  God Bless you!  You are making a difference.   :bearhug:


 :th_bravo:
You have a big heart! (http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/smileys/heart-smiley.gif?1292867614)
:bearhug: :icon_redface:
Title: Re: Revisiting Old Stuff: Four years toget it right
Post by: sweetsunsetwithMJ on March 20, 2013, 10:16:10 AM
I have so many doubts these days about something we have talked over and over again, here there are some of your opinions:

Souza:
Quote
4 Years is the only time frame Michael HIMSELF gave. While everyone is being disappointed about other BAM dates passing by, they ignore that one line out of the horse's mouth. If there is a BAM, which I am sure there will be, then that's the biggest clue you can get.

Gwyned:
Quote
But my question is, What IS the BAM.  Does BAM = Comeback, or might it be something else either entirely or much larger of which the Comeback is an essential part.

Bec:
Quote
Bam=comeback and any other interpretation is grasping at straws.

I agree with what Souza and Bec have said (btw Bec & Souza I am missing your interaction here with us on the forum) however I have the same doubt Gwyned has: "Who said that BAM = comeback??" I have that doubt because when Michael said "we have four years to get it right" he said it in a different context that when he said "I'll be back in my own time, I'll button my shirt, play with them for a while and BAM", if he had said one message right after the other we could understand that he would take those 4 years to play with them (I guess media and his opponents) through the hoax but however after saying the word: BAM there is a child holding the earth what could mean the 4 years to get it right meant 4 years to heal the world as MJhunny suggested when she reopened this stuff to to be revised.
To summarize: the 4 years to get it right and the word BAM are in different context and there is no connection between them.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vptdmhwm4iE[/youtube]
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