Jenn, I'm with you on this one. Playing games is fun, but then thereThanks for your post Jenn,it was a very interesting read.To be honest,i don't believe Whitney's death is a hoax.I was hopeful that it was,but after her funeral today,i am pretty convinced,its not.To me it seems that her death was not an accidental death or related to natural causes.Her deaths bleeds ritual sacrifice,and it makes me angry to think about it.In my mind there are only two possibilities,her death is either a hoax,or ritual sacrifice.I had the same feelings regarding M.J.,but i am convinced,that he is still alive,somewhere.The one thing that gives me hope,that Whitney escaped,is i believe Micheal could be chosen by God,to save humanity from the evil powers,who controls the world,from behind the curtain.At this point,i think she really is gone,but i am not certain.
is real death coming and it's not funny anymore. I know some people seriously go
as far as saying everyone from Lady D to Liz Taylor are alive and having
fun at Neverland, but let's keep it as real as we can - if they are smiling together
somewhere, it's in Heaven maybe.
In my mind there are only two possibilities,her death is either a hoax,or ritual sacrifice^^^Word!! I got the feeling Tyler Perry seemed to be alluding to this evil when he spoke about nothing being able to separate us from the Love of God..not principalities, nor powers implying demonic powers. This is why it is easier to look at the possibility of a hoax first, because the second option is very painful to think about.
celebrities have been victimized through the media and constantly ridiculed. It's been pretty prevalent through the years and has established one thing: DEATH exists prematurely. Unfortunately, celebrities are more susceptible to an early demise for a variety of reasons. Witney houston was one case which was highly represented of this. Of course, it's highly logical to assume that she is no longer with us. life is so precious and we highly covet it in such a profound regard that every moment of our existence is imperative. It suggests that we as people must learn to get over tragedy and, try to learn from our mistakes to end the incredible hatred. (we can't let our neglect for whitney in times of her distress dictate the outcome for OTHER people. we need to unify as people and show love) Therefore, what me must learn from the death of a highly-profiled celebrity such as witney is that we need to take life as it comes and not worry about details. because every experience has some significant value in it, and the more we blink the more we forget to realize what is between the lines. and we have to enjoy every second and not take it for granted. because we don't know who will wake up tomorrow. death does not mean the end, it only marks the beginning. but we should come to realize that since life is short, we can't sit and dwell on the negativity. we have to continue to enlighten and teach people how to share and support the love. but importantly, we have to know our HISTORY so we don't make mistakes in the future. But the point is, death is imminent. we cannot change our own demise. and unfortunately, Whitney died because she was a celebrity guided by the wrong light. (and I don't mean drugs, they really DON'T care about us. they care about the money) make no mistake about it.
Celebrities have a significantly shorter lifespan because they are known to have a camera on them a majority of the time. The stresses that burden a celebrity can never be fully understood unless you have experienced it yourself, but that's why we should continue to show love and compassion for all. because if we don't, we are barricading our futures from a world of peace. we prohibiting a sense of open-mindedness, and if we CONTINUE to hound these celebrities and treat them as anything other than human, then we risk another tragedy like this occurring. we can no longer ask why, but how can we prevent this. but it's funny, you'd think the easiest action to act upon,is something that everybody can easily do. Love. Love. Love. Love. love is a drug that will keep us from hurting ourselves. yet so many people refrain from it because they don't know how to spread it. Why is that? because we sometimes forget it ever exists. because we think that there isn't any in the world so we should jsut give up hope because it's useless. well I don't from which book you're reading, but love is infectious and allows us to heal gaping wounds once we incorporate our history into the mix of our experiences. we can't evolve as a primitive species if we never learn to live with one another. I mean, how primitive as a species are we? we resolve conflicts by waging wars? why can't we peacefully come to an agreement? Maybe because our materialistic greeds annihilated our ambitions of a better tomorrow.
So? You can be in denial or you can face reality. yes, it is strange that whitney died in such strange fashion. but hey, what death does not accompany such oddities? Whitney Died, and we have to learn to deal with it but also understand that if we have loved her and always supported her instead of constantly degrading thew oman, she would still be alive today. but it's not right to point the finger, so we have to do as people is understand teh fundamental importance in establishing a loving relationship with people who are burdened by the evil. just simply show the love, and we can prevent another tragedy like this from occurring.
Oh and This post was lovely. 17 years old, such a very logical and open-minded person you are! Iwantyouback! keep spreading your wisdom! we need it.
celebrities have been victimized through the media and constantly ridiculed. It's been pretty prevalent through the years and has established one thing: DEATH exists prematurely. Unfortunately, celebrities are more susceptible to an early demise for a variety of reasons. Witney houston was one case which was highly represented of this. Of course, it's highly logical to assume that she is no longer with us. life is so precious and we highly covet it in such a profound regard that every moment of our existence is imperative. It suggests that we as people must learn to get over tragedy and, try to learn from our mistakes to end the incredible hatred. (we can't let our neglect for whitney in times of her distress dictate the outcome for OTHER people. we need to unify as people and show love) Therefore, what me must learn from the death of a highly-profiled celebrity such as witney is that we need to take life as it comes and not worry about details. because every experience has some significant value in it, and the more we blink the more we forget to realize what is between the lines. and we have to enjoy every second and not take it for granted. because we don't know who will wake up tomorrow. death does not mean the end, it only marks the beginning. but we should come to realize that since life is short, we can't sit and dwell on the negativity. we have to continue to enlighten and teach people how to share and support the love. but importantly, we have to know our HISTORY so we don't make mistakes in the future. But the point is, death is imminent. we cannot change our own demise. and unfortunately, Whitney died because she was a celebrity guided by the wrong light. (and I don't mean drugs, they really DON'T care about us. they care about the money) make no mistake about it.mrbigshot--WOW JUST WOW!
Celebrities have a significantly shorter lifespan because they are known to have a camera on them a majority of the time. The stresses that burden a celebrity can never be fully understood unless you have experienced it yourself, but that's why we should continue to show love and compassion for all. because if we don't, we are barricading our futures from a world of peace. we prohibiting a sense of open-mindedness, and if we CONTINUE to hound these celebrities and treat them as anything other than human, then we risk another tragedy like this occurring. we can no longer ask why, but how can we prevent this. but it's funny, you'd think the easiest action to act upon,is something that everybody can easily do. Love. Love. Love. Love. love is a drug that will keep us from hurting ourselves. yet so many people refrain from it because they don't know how to spread it. Why is that? because we sometimes forget it ever exists. because we think that there isn't any in the world so we should jsut give up hope because it's useless. well I don't from which book you're reading, but love is infectious and allows us to heal gaping wounds once we incorporate our history into the mix of our experiences. we can't evolve as a primitive species if we never learn to live with one another. I mean, how primitive as a species are we? we resolve conflicts by waging wars? why can't we peacefully come to an agreement? Maybe because our materialistic greeds annihilated our ambitions of a better tomorrow.
So? You can be in denial or you can face reality. yes, it is strange that whitney died in such strange fashion. but hey, what death does not accompany such oddities? Whitney Died, and we have to learn to deal with it but also understand that if we have loved her and always supported her instead of constantly degrading thew oman, she would still be alive today. but it's not right to point the finger, so we have to do as people is understand teh fundamental importance in establishing a loving relationship with people who are burdened by the evil. just simply show the love, and we can prevent another tragedy like this from occurring.
Oh and This post was lovely. 17 years old, such a very logical and open-minded person you are! Iwantyouback! keep spreading your wisdom! we need it.
[. . . .] it seems to me that some beLIEvers are now thinking that Whitney Houston too faked her death just because there are a few apparently weird things surrounding it.^^ This depends on what each and every one of us perceives as "few". To me, "few" means 3-4, as I can see , to you 'few' means more than 40.
[. . . .]Whitney Houston wasn't in the best shape of her life, obviously.Obviously? By what the media has been reporting? Do you believe the media B.S.? How do you know she wasn't in good shape? Were you there, beside her? What is so obvious to you about her condition?
[. . . .]She wasn't about to go on tour. [...] She wasn't ready.Wrong again! She was preparing a new album and a movie!! just like Michael and Elvis (he didn't prepare a movie, but he had an album and a tour coming). James Brown also died only weeks before his new tour!
[. . . .]In fact, her daughter had a panic attack after her mother died and was rushed to the hospital.In fact? Whose fact? the fact presented in the media?
[. . . .] It sounds like a daughter who'syeah "it sounds like...", "it appears like...."
[. . . .]So what if their caskets looks similar? There's tonnes of caskets that look similar to each other. Plus, MJ and Whitney Houston were legends and the very famous get similar treatments. Therefore, their caskets are going to be a little similar.i think this is an attempt to minimize the importance of information that we are being presented. And this is what makes you lose the essence.
[. . . .]As i can see ^^ in your opinion, this is all about whose death is weirder than the other's!
I still believe Michael's case is very different [...]
While there is a Weird List created based on her death, in my opinion, none of those things on that list are weirder than Michael's case. In fact, in my opinion, the things on that list aren't even half as weird as Michael's case.
[. . . .]Feel free to disagree with me if you like,I've never felt more free.
[. . . .]but honestly, I am upset and completely, utterly SHOCKED that out of all of the facts we have found on Michael's death and out of all of the research we have done and the things we have seen, it has come to this. I'm shocked that ...I see that the main purpose was achieved: SHOCK! Most probably the whole world is shocked and will continue to be. I just hope we will also see a CHANGE of the world...towards the end... with the help of GOD.
[. . . .]I'm shocked, I'm upset, and I'm sad because in the back of my mind there's a little voice saying to me that maybe this whole death hoax we have found isn't real and these ARE all just coincidences. And this voice is getting louder and louder every time I see another post that even implies Whitney may have faked her death as well.I respect what your voice tells you.
I just want to say from the start that I respect you @IWantYouBack even though I disagree with most of what you said. What I am about to write below is not with the purpose of convincing you or anyone else of my own belief.
In my opinion , your long post talks mostly about how evident Michael's death hoax is (which we all know already) , instead of presenting evidence to why Whitney's death is real or not. I mean you really summed up all the good reasons and evidence that show us why and how Michael faked his death.
But I think your post isn't very convincing on why Whitney Houston didn't fake hers. And if I understood well, from the beginning of your message, that was the main reason why you started this thread, right? to express your opinion that Whitney didn't fake her death, to show that she really died. I didn't see any good arguments/evidence in your post to sustain your main point here.
Or if she died, I would like to know why her death is so similar to other celebs who are also under high suspicions of having faked their deaths.
By the way, maybe you, @IWantYouBack, together with people who agree with you, maybe you will be able to put up a Non-Weird List, just as long or even longer, so that we can finally reach to a common denominator.
The Weird List contains weird FACTS and nobody can deny this whether Whitney is alive or whether she was murdered, the circumstances of her death still remain: WEIRD Period!
How do you know she wasn't in good shape? Were you there, beside her? What is so obvious to you about her condition?
Wrong again! She was preparing a new album and a movie!
In fact? Whose fact? the fact presented in the media?
Paris also "sounded like..." at the memorial.
This is not about making comparisons or contests between the hoaxes.
I've never felt more free.
I see that the main purpose was achieved: SHOCK!
Truth be told, it bothers me that some find "clues" in WH's death and are believing it is a hoax, because I feel like it diminishes the legitimacy of the MJ death hoax.
Although it shouldn't bother me because I have solid reasons to believe MJHD irregardless of what anyone else believes.
But it still does for some reason.
I think this trend would bother me less in 2010 then it does now. Or even less a year ago. But now? It's tough being an MJ death hoaxer these days. Real tough. It's frankly embarrassing to be known as a believer anymore because we appear to be completely insane and pathetic.
Therefore, I simply used Michael's death hoax as a comparison to help us realize that Whitney didn't fake her deathAnd we've been using also Michael's hoax in the "Whitney dead at 48" thread to show that either she faked her death or she was murdered.
So, what I did was, I pulled out some of the most memorable events which point to a hoax that happened around Michael's "death" compared them with Whitney'syeah we did the same thing.
So isn't that evidence in itself IF my post was ultimately comparing Whitney's death to Michael's?No, it's not evidence. it's just your perspective.
Quote from: IWantYouBackTherefore, I simply used Michael's death hoax as a comparison to help us realize that Whitney didn't fake her deathAnd we've been using also Michael's hoax in the "Whitney dead at 48" thread to show that either she faked her death or she was murdered.
So it's all about looking at it from a different perspective.Quote from: IWantYouBackSo, what I did was, I pulled out some of the most memorable events which point to a hoax that happened around Michael's "death" compared them with Whitney'syeah we did the same thing.
And i think that we could go on with this endlessly, just like the Weird List.
Again it depends on how you want to see things. I prefer looking at the connections rather than at the differences. It's more constructive and it ties to the big PIcturE.Quote from: IWantYouBackSo isn't that evidence in itself IF my post was ultimately comparing Whitney's death to Michael's?No, it's not evidence. it's just your perspective.
just as the Weird List is not evidence either. it's just a List of weird facts that people are free to interpret as they choose.
I believe her death is so similar to other celebrities who are under high suspicion of having faked their deaths simply because Whitey, too, was a legend in music and a larger than life figure with an incredibly LARGE following. I think Whitney's, Elvis', and "Michael's" deaths are all similar because these stars are all so big,that is not a solid reason, IMO.
I would - but as I said, this is a Michael Jackson Death Hoax forum. I'm here to seek the truth regarding my idol, Michael's "death". Not Whitney Houston's.Ok, i agree with your explanation why you won't put up a "Non-Weird List".
Even if these facts are weird, it still doesn't mean that she faked her death or that it relates to Michael's death hoax.ok I agree.
[...]Well, then I guess we have to agree to disagree.Well of course. Didn't we start this debate based on that?
Which reality are you talking about? Is it he one that the media continued to present about her , even after she recovered?Quote from: SimPattyKHow do you know she wasn't in good shape? Were you there, beside her? What is so obvious to you about her condition?See now this is where we NEED to let reality set in. We all know that throughout the years Whitney Houston has had a rough battle with drugs.
Not only that, there is VIDEO footage where you can clearly tell Whitney Houston is in rough shape. Her daughter, her manager, and Whitey herself, similarly to Michael, admitted that she had a drug problem a while back and she didn't deny the media's reports about it.there were also videos and footage with Michael in a wheelchair, with him with plastres on his face, looking really bad. Also his family said that they vainly tried to bring him on the good track, regarding the prescription pain killers he used..
that is not a solid reason, IMO.
But what if in the end this proves to be part of Michael's plan?
Wouldn't you be sorry that you ignored the facts, the similarities, the "coincidences"?
But it doesn't mean that she is dead either!
I base my beliefs on her own words
there were also videos and footage with Michael in a wheelchair, with him with plastres on his face, looking really bad. Also his family said that they vainly tried to bring him on the good track, regarding the prescription pain killers he used..
SO? Either they are both dead, murdered by the industry, or they are both alive.
No, i wouldn't be sorry, because I didn't say anything offensive , on the contrary I defended Whitney.But what if in the end this proves to be part of Michael's plan?
But what if it's not? Wouldn't you then be sorry if you ignored her family's feelings and thought that after all of these days/months/years when or if Michael comes back that she did actually pass on and that her family and the world is actually trying to cope with this sudden, sad loss?
I agree with you.Wouldn't you be sorry that you ignored the facts, the similarities, the "coincidences"?
No, I wouldn't be sorry because I'm human. I make mistakes and I'm not always right. If it turns out that she is alive and this is all apart of Michael's plan, then I will stand corrected and learn from my mistakes and be glad that I respected the world's feelings towards this news (not that I am saying you're not). This hoax has already been one heck of a ride and I'm having a great adventure with or without the apparent "clues" I may miss by not believing in the Whitney Houston death hoax.
ok.But it doesn't mean that she is dead either!But in my mind it does because I see people genuinely crying at her funeral without even thinking "Gee, it could be fake...". I have a different feeling with her funeral compared to the strange feeling I had with Michael's. I felt the sadness. I truly felt it and I just don't believe she's alive no matter what that Weird List says or will say.
IWantYouBack,
You said you are here for Michael and think Whitney's death or death hoax should not be on this one for MJ. I see where you are coming from but I am looking at this at all angles until we know more. I don't think we have enough information about what happened to Whitney to decide so fast. There are too many What if's ........ ? We don't know what's really going on.
1. What if it was a planned illuminati sacrifice and Michael or others had a plan for her to escape ?
2. What if it was all staged as part of the whole plan of Michael ????
3. What if a group of "stars" are working together, such as Michael and Elvis and maybe others ?
4. What if Whitney was murdered ?
5. What about all the coincidences and weird list ?
6. What if they are counting on us, the soldiers of love to investigate this part of the plan ?
7. What if she really overdosed ? Maybe we want to get information so it doesn't happen again to someone else.
I think of it this way. If I'm wrong than that's okay because I'll say it's just a learning experience. But until I know more, I feel like I should support Michael and the "Greatest Fight For Freedom in History".
Let's not have a divided "army" !
Love You All
No, i wouldn't be sorry, because I didn't say anything offensive , on the contrary I defended Whitney.But what if in the end this proves to be part of Michael's plan?
But what if it's not? Wouldn't you then be sorry if you ignored her family's feelings and thought that after all of these days/months/years when or if Michael comes back that she did actually pass on and that her family and the world is actually trying to cope with this sudden, sad loss?
If in the end it would be proven that Michael died, would you be sorry for being a believer ?
And Michael did?I base my beliefs on her own wordsWell then if this is really the case, Whitney herself has never said she was going to fake her death.
Where do her words apply to this debate? But, her words do apply to my side of the story. She admitted she had a drug problem.You didn't watch the Oprah interview.
of course. nobody said otherwise. The cases are totally different, but also very connected.there were also videos and footage with Michael in a wheelchair, with him with plastres on his face, looking really bad. Also his family said that they vainly tried to bring him on the good track, regarding the prescription pain killers he used..But, again, similar to the death hoax, Michael's case was different.
SO? Either they are both dead, murdered by the industry, or they are both alive.
[...] And it is NOT true that if Michael is alive, she must be alive. Or that if Michael was murdered, she was murdered. Or that they are both dead. These people are not attached together by handcuffs or by the skull like conjoined twins. They are two SEPARATE people who have different memories, different achievements, and different lives all together. Yes, they were in the same business, but they're different people. That is just getting too far out there.ye but then how do you explain all the similarities? or do you choose to ifgnore all that?
Truth be told, it bothers me that some find "clues" in WH's death and are believing it is a hoax, because I feel like it diminishes the legitimacy of the MJ death hoax.
Although it shouldn't bother me because I have solid reasons to believe MJHD irregardless of what anyone else believes.
But it still does for some reason.
I think this trend would bother me less in 2010 then it does now. Or even less a year ago. But now? It's tough being an MJ death hoaxer these days. Real tough. It's frankly embarrassing to be known as a believer anymore because we appear to be completely insane and pathetic.
Exactly.
precisely!IWantYouBack,But again, I can't make my decisions based on "what-ifs".
You said you are here for Michael and think Whitney's death or death hoax should not be on this one for MJ. I see where you are coming from but I am looking at this at all angles until we know more. I don't think we have enough information about what happened to Whitney to decide so fast. There are too many What if's ........ ? We don't know what's really going on.
1. What if it was a planned illuminati sacrifice and Michael or others had a plan for her to escape ?
2. What if it was all staged as part of the whole plan of Michael ????
3. What if a group of "stars" are working together, such as Michael and Elvis and maybe others ?
4. What if Whitney was murdered ?
5. What about all the coincidences and weird list ?
6. What if they are counting on us, the soldiers of love to investigate this part of the plan ?
7. What if she really overdosed ? Maybe we want to get information so it doesn't happen again to someone else.
I think of it this way. If I'm wrong than that's okay because I'll say it's just a learning experience. But until I know more, I feel like I should support Michael and the "Greatest Fight For Freedom in History".
Let's not have a divided "army" !
Love You All
Agreed,my feelings exactly.If Michael pulled off an elaborate hoax,who is to say he did not help Whitney.She could be dead,but then so could M.J.Not that i believe Michael is dead,im just saying,the industry aint no joke,but neither is Michael.Quote from: IWantYouBackWhich reality are you talking about? Is it he one that the media continued to present about her , even after she recovered?Quote from: SimPattyKHow do you know she wasn't in good shape? Were you there, beside her? What is so obvious to you about her condition?See now this is where we NEED to let reality set in. We all know that throughout the years Whitney Houston has had a rough battle with drugs.
This reminds me of Michael's case with the accusations. Even after he was found NOT guilty, the media continued to portrayed him as a child molester.
So again: what makes you so sure that she was "obviously not in good shape"?
I base my beliefs on her own words, just like I trust only in Michael's words!
I recommend you to watch her interview with Oprah in September 2009. And not only that interview, but also the most recent ones from last year. To me she looked extremely beautiful, very well grounded, in good shape. I saw no sign of her being back on drugs or something.Quote from: IWantYouBackNot only that, there is VIDEO footage where you can clearly tell Whitney Houston is in rough shape. Her daughter, her manager, and Whitey herself, similarly to Michael, admitted that she had a drug problem a while back and she didn't deny the media's reports about it.there were also videos and footage with Michael in a wheelchair, with him with plastres on his face, looking really bad. Also his family said that they vainly tried to bring him on the good track, regarding the prescription pain killers he used..
SO? Either they are both dead, murdered by the industry, or they are both alive.
^^ This is where we are again very different.In some ways, I would be a little sorry for being a beLIEver because I don't want his children thinking that we thought they were liars and weren't coping with the loss of their father. So yes, I would be a little sorry, but I wouldn't lose sleep over it or anything.No, i wouldn't be sorry, because I didn't say anything offensive , on the contrary I defended Whitney.But what if in the end this proves to be part of Michael's plan?
But what if it's not? Wouldn't you then be sorry if you ignored her family's feelings and thought that after all of these days/months/years when or if Michael comes back that she did actually pass on and that her family and the world is actually trying to cope with this sudden, sad loss?
If in the end it would be proven that Michael died, would you be sorry for being a believer ?
And Michael did?I base my beliefs on her own wordsWell then if this is really the case, Whitney herself has never said she was going to fake her death.Where do her words apply to this debate? But, her words do apply to my side of the story. She admitted she had a drug problem.You didn't watch the Oprah interview.
I prefer to believe her than what the media says about her. She said she recovered. I saw her alive and well and optimist and full of projects in interviews just few months before she died. That's where her words apply!of course. nobody said otherwise. The cases are totally different, but also very connected.there were also videos and footage with Michael in a wheelchair, with him with plastres on his face, looking really bad. Also his family said that they vainly tried to bring him on the good track, regarding the prescription pain killers he used..But, again, similar to the death hoax, Michael's case was different.
SO? Either they are both dead, murdered by the industry, or they are both alive.[...] And it is NOT true that if Michael is alive, she must be alive. Or that if Michael was murdered, she was murdered. Or that they are both dead. These people are not attached together by handcuffs or by the skull like conjoined twins. They are two SEPARATE people who have different memories, different achievements, and different lives all together. Yes, they were in the same business, but they're different people. That is just getting too far out there.ye but then how do you explain all the similarities? or do you choose to ifgnore all that?
Ok, I understand you don't feel like putting up a Non-Weird List.
But then you never even touched the points in the Weird List. What are we discussing about here?
I think that rather than debating AROUND the subject we should get INTO the actual stuff!
You said you opened this thread after you saw the Weird List. Ok, well let's start discussing the Weird List, point by point. This way this debate will be meaningful.
Let's just get to the point(s) and discuss the essence!!
So what about point no. 1 from the List ? is this only "an apparent weird stuff?" as @IWantYouBack said or is it a REAL FACT!? I wanna hear all possible PROs and CONs about that.
What about point no. 2 ??
And Michael did?I base my beliefs on her own wordsWell then if this is really the case, Whitney herself has never said she was going to fake her death.Where do her words apply to this debate? But, her words do apply to my side of the story. She admitted she had a drug problem.You didn't watch the Oprah interview.
I prefer to believe her than what the media says about her. She said she recovered. I saw her alive and well and optimist and full of projects in interviews just few months before she died. That's where her words apply!of course. nobody said otherwise. The cases are totally different, but also very connected.there were also videos and footage with Michael in a wheelchair, with him with plastres on his face, looking really bad. Also his family said that they vainly tried to bring him on the good track, regarding the prescription pain killers he used..But, again, similar to the death hoax, Michael's case was different.
SO? Either they are both dead, murdered by the industry, or they are both alive.[...] And it is NOT true that if Michael is alive, she must be alive. Or that if Michael was murdered, she was murdered. Or that they are both dead. These people are not attached together by handcuffs or by the skull like conjoined twins. They are two SEPARATE people who have different memories, different achievements, and different lives all together. Yes, they were in the same business, but they're different people. That is just getting too far out there.ye but then how do you explain all the similarities? or do you choose to ifgnore all that?
Ok, I understand you don't feel like putting up a Non-Weird List.
But then you never even touched the points in the Weird List. What are we discussing about here?
I think that rather than debating AROUND the subject we should get INTO the actual stuff!
You said you opened this thread after you saw the Weird List. Ok, well let's start discussing the Weird List, point by point. This way this debate will be meaningful.
Let's just get to the point(s) and discuss the essence!!
So what about point no. 1 from the List ? is this only "an apparent weird stuff?" as @IWantYouBack said or is it a REAL FACT!? I wanna hear all possible PROs and CONs about that.
What about point no. 2 ??
I never said Michael did. But I said that the weird things surrounding his death were so MAJOR and so ODD and so INSANE that a death hoax is almost the only option available for this all to make sense. And, MJ has joked about faking his death like Elvis before and there are some interesting messages in his songs, it's not a big leap.
And you got the idea of this whole thread totally wrong. I didn't open it to start a debate or attack your Weird List. I appreciate the work you've done and if you would like to continue your work then fine. I just posted this thread after I saw the Weird List because that was the post that signified how trendy and deep this whole Whitney Houston issue was becoming. The Weird List honestly doesn't really have that much to do with my opinion, I just kind of used it as a starting point and as an excuse to start this thread because it was really a warning sign that this MJ Death Hoax might not be that legitimate whether I have my own reasons to beLIEve or not. And I think I've stated many, many times that I am NOT interested in this Whitney Houston Death Hoax discussion. I'm here for Michael and only Michael. I just want to believe that Whitney is up in Heaven watching over us and that is it. I just posted this thread to see if other people agreed with me or felt the same way so then I could have a little bit of support, that's all. I don't see why we need to attack the Weird List if ultimately we know that our opinions are not going to change. We will get no where doing that and most importantly, we will get no where to the truth regarding MICHAEL'S DEATH, which should be the main reason why we're all here in the first place. Not Whitney Houston even though I love her music and I believe that she was a great person.
But then why did you imply that Whitney should have said it?I never said Michael did.And Michael did?I base my beliefs on her own wordsWell then if this is really the case, Whitney herself has never said she was going to fake her death.
the weird things surrounding his death were so MAJOR and so ODD and so INSANE that a death hoax is almost the only option available for this all to make sense. And, MJ has joked about faking his death like Elvis before and there are some interesting messages in his songs, it's not a big leap.And again: think: maybe Whitney joined the club at the last moment! maybe they saved her at the last moment and they didn't have time to prepare "jokes" for her too prior to her death
And you got the idea of this whole thread totally wrong. I didn't open it to start a debate or attach your Weird List.No, I didn't get anything wrong. You said clearly that you wouldn't have opened the thread until after you saw the List. Pls don't back up now when this is getting more interesting.
I don't see why we need to attack the Weird List if ultimately we know that our opinions are not going to change. We will get no where doing that and most importantly, we will get no where to the truth regarding MICHAEL'S DEATH, which should be the main reason why we're all here in the first place.Precisely because we are all here to learn the truth surrounding Michael, precisely because of this, I think that, taking into account all the similarities, we should debate the Weird List point by point. I think even if we continue to discuss it from our different perspectives, this will most surely offer a very OBJECTIVE view on the whole theory. That's why I insist for you to take each point from the Weird List and dissect it together, here.
But then why did you imply that Whitney should have said it?I never said Michael did.And Michael did?I base my beliefs on her own wordsWell then if this is really the case, Whitney herself has never said she was going to fake her death.the weird things surrounding his death were so MAJOR and so ODD and so INSANE that a death hoax is almost the only option available for this all to make sense. And, MJ has joked about faking his death like Elvis before and there are some interesting messages in his songs, it's not a big leap.And again: think: maybe Whitney joined the club at the last moment! maybe they saved her at the last moment and they didn't have time to prepare "jokes" for her too prior to her deathAnd you got the idea of this whole thread totally wrong. I didn't open it to start a debate or attach your Weird List.No, I didn't get anything wrong. You said clearly that you wouldn't have opened the thread until after you saw the List. Pls don't back up now when this is getting more interesting.
Let's discuss the points.
I wanna hear your opinion on the first 2 points in the List, for now.
Truth be told, it bothers me that some find "clues" in WH's death and are believing it is a hoax, because I feel like it diminishes the legitimacy of the MJ death hoax.
Although it shouldn't bother me because I have solid reasons to believe MJHD irregardless of what anyone else believes.
But it still does for some reason.
I think this trend would bother me less in 2010 then it does now. Or even less a year ago. But now? It's tough being an MJ death hoaxer these days. Real tough. It's frankly embarrassing to be known as a believer anymore because we appear to be completely insane and pathetic.
Exactly.
Truth be told, it bothers me that some find "clues" in WH's death and are believing it is a hoax, because I feel like it diminishes the legitimacy of the MJ death hoax.
Although it shouldn't bother me because I have solid reasons to believe MJHD irregardless of what anyone else believes.
But it still does for some reason.
I think this trend would bother me less in 2010 then it does now. Or even less a year ago. But now? It's tough being an MJ death hoaxer these days. Real tough. It's frankly embarrassing to be known as a believer anymore because we appear to be completely insane and pathetic.
Exactly.
I agree as well.
Truth be told, it bothers me that some find "clues" in WH's death and are believing it is a hoax, because I feel like it diminishes the legitimacy of the MJ death hoax.
Although it shouldn't bother me because I have solid reasons to believe MJHD irregardless of what anyone else believes.
But it still does for some reason.
I think this trend would bother me less in 2010 then it does now. Or even less a year ago. But now? It's tough being an MJ death hoaxer these days. Real tough. It's frankly embarrassing to be known as a believer anymore because we appear to be completely insane and pathetic.
Exactly.
I agree as well.
Bec's point was another point I was trying to make when I started this thread. When I said it makes me feel uneasy and it makes me not want to be a beLIEver that's what I meant. It diminishes the legitimacy whether I have my own reasons to beLIEve or not. Thank you for your support. :D
@Big - I read your post and I loved it. Totally agree and I am so glad we are on the same page. I've been getting a lot of messages from other beLIEvers about this thread who are on our side as well. We need to put an end to this absurd Whitney Houston controversy once and for all before we start losing more beLIEvers, and fast!
Truth be told, it bothers me that some find "clues" in WH's death and are believing it is a hoax, because I feel like it diminishes the legitimacy of the MJ death hoax.
Although it shouldn't bother me because I have solid reasons to believe MJHD irregardless of what anyone else believes.
But it still does for some reason.
I think this trend would bother me less in 2010 then it does now. Or even less a year ago. But now? It's tough being an MJ death hoaxer these days. Real tough. It's frankly embarrassing to be known as a believer anymore because we appear to be completely insane and pathetic.
Exactly.
I agree as well.
Bec's point was another point I was trying to make when I started this thread. When I said it makes me feel uneasy and it makes me not want to be a beLIEver that's what I meant. It diminishes the legitimacy whether I have my own reasons to beLIEve or not. Thank you for your support. :D
@Big - I read your post and I loved it. Totally agree and I am so glad we are on the same page. I've been getting a lot of messages from other beLIEvers about this thread who are on our side as well. We need to put an end to this absurd Whitney Houston controversy once and for all before we start losing more beLIEvers, and fast!
I'm so glad that I read this thread. I feel exactly the same way. I could say a lot about this and have deleted several paragraphs. I will just say that this makes me very uncomfortable and forces me to review if we've gone down a wrong path much like I think some well meaning souls have with Whitney. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't feel it in my soul like I did with Michael.
I beg people, please, let's not find a hoax under every rock and don't think that the Illuminati hides behind the door in order to attack our beloved entertainers. Yes, there is a dark side to Hollywood, for which we have learned all too well, but the drug issue goes much further than Hollywood. Look out your back door if you don't believe me.
I love you all. I believe that time reveals the truth so maybe we just need to wait and see.
Hugs and blessings.
Hi all. : ) I don't find the conversation distressing at all, and it in no way diminished the theory of Michael's death hoax. I personally am just keeping an open mind.FULLY agree with you!!! /bravo/
There are a lot of things about Whitney's death that made me take notice, be it similarities and odd coincidences. [...] I think there is a lot more in Whitney's case that points to murder than hoax, but I haven't taken hoax off the table. I know people want to tell others not to think hoax about Whitney, but look where we are? I'm happy to see people "awake" and talking and questioning, rather than blindly swallowing what the media feeds them. That is all I'm going to say on this.Oh my! You just read my mind!!! I am so happy you expressed that! I think this a perfectly CORRECT and sain attitude to have now when we are witnessing these incredible events unfolding in front of our eyes.
Truth be told, it bothers me that some find "clues" in WH's death and are believing it is a hoax, because I feel like it diminishes the legitimacy of the MJ death hoax.
Although it shouldn't bother me because I have solid reasons to believe MJHD irregardless of what anyone else believes.
But it still does for some reason.
I think this trend would bother me less in 2010 then it does now. Or even less a year ago. But now? It's tough being an MJ death hoaxer these days. Real tough. It's frankly embarrassing to be known as a believer anymore because we appear to be completely insane and pathetic.
Exactly.
I agree as well.
Bec's point was another point I was trying to make when I started this thread. When I said it makes me feel uneasy and it makes me not want to be a beLIEver that's what I meant. It diminishes the legitimacy whether I have my own reasons to beLIEve or not. Thank you for your support. :D
@Big - I read your post and I loved it. Totally agree and I am so glad we are on the same page. I've been getting a lot of messages from other beLIEvers about this thread who are on our side as well. We need to put an end to this absurd Whitney Houston controversy once and for all before we start losing more beLIEvers, and fast!
I'm so glad that I read this thread. I feel exactly the same way. I could say a lot about this and have deleted several paragraphs. I will just say that this makes me very uncomfortable and forces me to review if we've gone down a wrong path much like I think some well meaning souls have with Whitney. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't feel it in my soul like I did with Michael.
I beg people, please, let's not find a hoax under every rock and don't think that the Illuminati hides behind the door in order to attack our beloved entertainers. Yes, there is a dark side to Hollywood, for which we have learned all too well, but the drug issue goes much further than Hollywood. Look out your back door if you don't believe me.
I love you all. I believe that time reveals the truth so maybe we just need to wait and see.
Hugs and blessings.
every 19 minutes, somebody who's a sister/brother/mother/father, dies of ADDICTION. Addiction is a Brain disease! It has absolutely nothing to do with self control, and I do so wish people could clearly see what Dr. Drew Pinsky saw, what I saw: Whitney exhibiting her Addiction in full force, even on Thursday night! You can't be a little addicted, when you're a multi-substance abuse addict. One drink flips a switch deep within the brain, and the Addiction is running you; you're not in control any longer. Her friends had THREE DAYS to stop it, yet chose to do NOTHING.
This had nothing to do with Michael whatsoever! This was a poor woman, who's friends chose to DO NOTHING. When good people choose to do nothing, that person is truly alone...and, she died because they did nothing. She didn't want to die...but the Addiction was at the wheel.
Most Online Ever: 249 (February 11, 2012, 06:43:52 PM)
Hi all. : ) I don't find the conversation distressing at all, and it in no way diminished the theory of Michael's death hoax. I personally am just keeping an open mind. There are a lot of things about Whitney's death that made me take notice, be it similarities and odd coincidences. I don't think every death out there is a hoax, but if Michael faked his, I don't think he was the first and I don't think he'd be the last. It's not about who's death impacted the world the most, at least not to me.penguin/Great post,i agree 1000%/
I think there is a lot more in Whitney's case that points to murder than hoax, but I haven't taken hoax off the table. I know people want to tell others not to think hoax about Whitney, but look where we are? I'm happy to see people "awake" and talking and questioning, rather than blindly swallowing what the media feeds them. That is all I'm going to say on this.
I agree addiction is a terrible disease.But i question if Whitney was still using.Just because they say the found RX drugs in her hotel room does not mean its true.The Media are puppets,and so is Dr.Drew,he does not know a damn thing about Whitney or M.J.He does not have me convinced about anything.He is a talking puppet,that's how i see it.I totally understand what you are saying about addiction,one drink can lead to an all out binge.I agree.Her friends are not true friends if they just sat there and did not say or do anything.In my mind though,Whitney's death had nothing to do with her addiction.Accidental death is one thing,but murder is a totally different ball game.Truth be told, it bothers me that some find "clues" in WH's death and are believing it is a hoax, because I feel like it diminishes the legitimacy of the MJ death hoax.
Although it shouldn't bother me because I have solid reasons to believe MJHD irregardless of what anyone else believes.
But it still does for some reason.
I think this trend would bother me less in 2010 then it does now. Or even less a year ago. But now? It's tough being an MJ death hoaxer these days. Real tough. It's frankly embarrassing to be known as a believer anymore because we appear to be completely insane and pathetic.
Exactly.
I agree as well.
Bec's point was another point I was trying to make when I started this thread. When I said it makes me feel uneasy and it makes me not want to be a beLIEver that's what I meant. It diminishes the legitimacy whether I have my own reasons to beLIEve or not. Thank you for your support. :D
@Big - I read your post and I loved it. Totally agree and I am so glad we are on the same page. I've been getting a lot of messages from other beLIEvers about this thread who are on our side as well. We need to put an end to this absurd Whitney Houston controversy once and for all before we start losing more beLIEvers, and fast!
I'm so glad that I read this thread. I feel exactly the same way. I could say a lot about this and have deleted several paragraphs. I will just say that this makes me very uncomfortable and forces me to review if we've gone down a wrong path much like I think some well meaning souls have with Whitney. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't feel it in my soul like I did with Michael.
I beg people, please, let's not find a hoax under every rock and don't think that the Illuminati hides behind the door in order to attack our beloved entertainers. Yes, there is a dark side to Hollywood, for which we have learned all too well, but the drug issue goes much further than Hollywood. Look out your back door if you don't believe me.
I love you all. I believe that time reveals the truth so maybe we just need to wait and see.
Hugs and blessings.
every 19 minutes, somebody who's a sister/brother/mother/father, dies of ADDICTION. Addiction is a Brain disease! It has absolutely nothing to do with self control, and I do so wish people could clearly see what Dr. Drew Pinsky saw, what I saw: Whitney exhibiting her Addiction in full force, even on Thursday night! You can't be a little addicted, when you're a multi-substance abuse addict. One drink flips a switch deep within the brain, and the Addiction is running you; you're not in control any longer. Her friends had THREE DAYS to stop it, yet chose to do NOTHING.
This had nothing to do with Michael whatsoever! This was a poor woman, who's friends chose to DO NOTHING. When good people choose to do nothing, that person is truly alone...and, she died because they did nothing. She didn't want to die...but the Addiction was at the wheel.
IWantYouBack, it's true that since you started this thread, you can state your intentions and how you wish to keep it on track. You really just wanted to state your thoughts on the Whitney Houson death scenario, and have people respond positively. And you were upset that some were thinking it might also be a hoax. Fair enough.
However, I’m almost sensing doubts even in MJ’s hoax. That makes me feel sad. I hope just because things are quiet on the forum, and not much else is happening, that seeds of doubt will not start spreading pervasively on the forum.
I know when TS started posting more and more religious topics, many people got very upset, and some may have even left.
The reason I've liked coming to this forum is precisely because, people here think outside the box, and not like 99% of the other places out there. And most of the time, discussions though controversial, have been civil, very stimulating, intriguing, and sometimes very funny.
I often wonder why there isn't more discussion on other MJ hoax themes, just trying to dig for more gems/details. If you look at the new stats record it is because of WH's death.QuoteMost Online Ever: 249 (February 11, 2012, 06:43:52 PM)
Like you, I'm not here for Whitney. Though I think she was/is a fabulous singer and enjoy her songs, I basically have lumped her in with all the other many great singers. Her death didn't really affect me, just made me think it was such a waste of a relatively young life. Whereas after MJ died, I was feeling pain in my chest, I was walking and crying, and really grieving for this man I never met or knew, for weeks until I became convinced he was alive. For me, Michael is why I'm here.
These 11 days since her death, have gradually had more and more interesting details surfacing, that I find quite intriguing, as I've always loved mysteries, and perhaps conspiracies. I enjoy examining things from all angles, and trying to read between the lines, hearing different viewpoints.
About her death, I'm starting to lean towards hoax, but that doesn't mean I'm convinced she didn't die.
When MJ/Front/TS start coming out with more MJ hoax info hopefully soon, I'll be happy to dig into it, but....just maybe.... THIS--is what he wants us to dig into--the PROJECT he's been working on. I'm just Keeping on Watching!! Remember Prince's words, "MJ just might know something we all don't know. You never know. You just never know!"
So, I decided to re-read this whole thread over again, and I just have a couple things to point out. So, with that, here we go:
1. Everyone has the right to their opinion - I never said once in this thread that your opinions and views were flat dead wrong, I was just stating that I fully believe in my own opinion on this issue based on the information we know and have been given, whether it includes Simpa's Weird List or not. You all have the right to your opinion, but I do think it's fair to say that the people who believe Whitney is alive and faked her death do not have any hardcore pieces of evidence other than a Weird List that contains weird facts. But, those weird facts can be considered normal facts with absolutely nothing weird about them depending on the way to look at it and what you're opinion on Whitney's death is. Therefore, the people who believe she's alive consider them weird hoax wise, but for me, since I am 99.9% certain that she is truly gone, they are suspicious when it comes to bringing murder into the equation. The circumstances that are surrounding Whitney's death are not weird or clear enough for a hoax in my opinion, no matter what may be on the Weird List. But, don't get me wrong. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I'm not saying they are wrong, I'm just saying that I don't agree with them.
2. "You can't believe a word the media says" - In this thread I've been seeing a lot of people post that the media lies 24/7 and that nothing they say is usually the truth. This is honestly not a fair statement, not even in Michael's case. Michael Jackson stated himself that the stories in the *TABLOID* media are garbage and false - which I believe. However, the key word here is *tabloid*. Michael also stated that he has a love-hate relationship with the media and that not all types of media feed us lies. I really, really don't think it is fair, in Whitney Houston's circumstances, to say that the professional media companies (ie. CNN, ABC, FOX, etc) are never right and that none of us should believe a word they say. While some stories may be exaggerated and the odd one false, these companies have to get the story from SOMEWHERE. These companies have to have some sort of proof to put out these articles to the public or else they will be sued and face pretty serious consequences.
I really get angry at this statement because a large portion of Michael's hoax revolves around articles that the media companies write and put out to us. Like, when something POSITIVE for once is written about Michael or any other celebrity, why don't we say "You can't believe a word the media says"? Is it just because they are backing up Michael and being positive for once? How do we know the positive stories aren't true if one TRULY believes that all of the media stories are garbage and false? I'm not saying that all of those positive articles that are written about MJ are false. Let's get that straight right now. I love Michael and I believe he is one of the nicest and most inspiring people the world has ever known. But, I think he's a good example to use. So if someone can explain to me why we don't believe that the positive articles are false as well as the negative ones, that would be very much appreciated because as you can see, I'm a little confused.
God Bless you guys. :)
So, I decided to re-read this whole thread over again, and I just have a couple things to point out. So, with that, here we go:The Media are Tabloid trash plain and simple.They tell the truth about small simple things.When it comes to scandals and celebrity death or drug use, they mix a little truth with a bunch of lies.Concerning Whitney i don't know for certain if she is dead,but if she is,it did not go down like the Media is reporting.
1. Everyone has the right to their opinion - I never said once in this thread that your opinions and views were flat dead wrong, I was just stating that I fully believe in my own opinion on this issue based on the information we know and have been given, whether it includes Simpa's Weird List or not. You all have the right to your opinion, but I do think it's fair to say that the people who believe Whitney is alive and faked her death do not have any hardcore pieces of evidence other than a Weird List that contains weird facts. But, those weird facts can be considered normal facts with absolutely nothing weird about them depending on the way to look at it and what you're opinion on Whitney's death is. Therefore, the people who believe she's alive consider them weird hoax wise, but for me, since I am 99.9% certain that she is truly gone, they are suspicious when it comes to bringing murder into the equation. The circumstances that are surrounding Whitney's death are not weird or clear enough for a hoax in my opinion, no matter what may be on the Weird List. But, don't get me wrong. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I'm not saying they are wrong, I'm just saying that I don't agree with them.
2. "You can't believe a word the media says" - In this thread I've been seeing a lot of people post that the media lies 24/7 and that nothing they say is usually the truth. This is honestly not a fair statement, not even in Michael's case. Michael Jackson stated himself that the stories in the *TABLOID* media are garbage and false - which I believe. However, the key word here is *tabloid*. Michael also stated that he has a love-hate relationship with the media and that not all types of media feed us lies. I really, really don't think it is fair, in Whitney Houston's circumstances, to say that the professional media companies (ie. CNN, ABC, FOX, etc) are never right and that none of us should believe a word they say. While some stories may be exaggerated and the odd one false, these companies have to get the story from SOMEWHERE. These companies have to have some sort of proof to put out these articles to the public or else they will be sued and face pretty serious consequences.
I really get angry at this statement because a large portion of Michael's hoax revolves around articles that the media companies write and put out to us. Like, when something POSITIVE for once is written about Michael or any other celebrity, why don't we say "You can't believe a word the media says"? Is it just because they are backing up Michael and being positive for once? How do we know the positive stories aren't true if one TRULY believes that all of the media stories are garbage and false? I'm not saying that all of those positive articles that are written about MJ are false. Let's get that straight right now. I love Michael and I believe he is one of the nicest and most inspiring people the world has ever known. But, I think he's a good example to use. So if someone can explain to me why we don't believe that the positive articles are false as well as the negative ones, that would be very much appreciated because as you can see, I'm a little confused.
God Bless you guys. :)
I’m still out a limb about the cause of Whitney’s death. I don’t doubt she was still using, but if so, then certainly she would seem more apt to have died at home from drugs than in a hotel with all those people about. The circumstances are a little suspicious, especially her body guard leaving her alone, returning and starting to put his key in the door, then thinking better of it. did he think better or did something else detur him? His demeanor during his remarks disturbed me a bit, as if he was leaving gaps to be filled in by whom ever was listening. As did Jesse Jackson’s presence on the stage with nothing to say, just looking out of place somehow, as if he was a bodyguard himself. There have been some rumors going around that have not been authenticated, so I’ll not repeat them. Something about it feels a bit off kilter and I would not be surprised at all if it soon turned into an investigation of foul play. /cook/You made some good points here ! ;)