Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators

Latest News => The Redirects => TIAI => The Plan (Qanon, TIAI, BACK) => TIAI ~ 2012 => Topic started by: TS_comments on January 21, 2012, 03:28:29 PM

Title: TIAI January 21
Post by: TS_comments on January 21, 2012, 03:28:29 PM
In December of 2009, TS said the following: “Could there possibly be a relationship between the death hoax, and the unveiling of the Ark?  In fact, could both of these things be directly related to the end of the world (see R49)? … stayed tuned: this is not it, there’s more to come.  When the time is right, there will be further information about the Ark of the Covenant. … Again, stayed tuned to TIAI for more info on the Ark; this will certainly happen well before 12-21-2012.”

Today is the day; the time is right, for the information on the ark to come out loud and clear!  This redirect is about the detailed information on the ark of the covenant.  However, this one is very religious; so it has been posted in the other forum for religious discussion, with a link to it here {http://www.michaelsarmyoflove.com/forum/index.php?topic=56.msg118#msg118 (http://www.michaelsarmyoflove.com/forum/index.php?topic=56.msg118#msg118)}.

As documented very well by Souza in her last blog (redirect for January 11), there are indeed religious aspects of the MJ hoax. Nobody is required to read or join in the religious discussion; but please do not say that topics about the Bible and God are unrelated to Michael and the hoax.  I have repeatedly shown that the Bible, including and especially the end of the world, is a significant part of the hoax (12:21 phone call timing, and much more).

Please limit discussions, on this thread and where the article is posted, to the appropriate topic: the ark of the covenant, and how to distinguish the genuine from the counterfeits.

Thank you.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: MJJSmile on January 21, 2012, 03:36:42 PM
Thanks TS :)
L.O.V.E.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: GINAFELICIA on January 21, 2012, 03:41:14 PM
Hi TS, so glad to see you bearhug!
...I was thinking you were going to post today suspicious//...because it's 21.

edit: LOL to the verification questions to register on that site  lolol/!!
edit2: I must say what I've read by now left me speechless afraid/
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: _Anna_ on January 21, 2012, 03:47:19 PM
Quote
It should also be clearly stated at this point that the world will not end on 12-21-2012; but it will end shortly after 2012! How long is “shortly”? Nobody knows a specific date; but it will probably be within the next few years (nobody living on earth now is going to grow old, unless you’re nearly there already). How can we be sure that this is true? If you keep watching, you will learn how, soon enough.

I will not comment on this. But again, no mortal, no human being on this earth can, with all the possible calculations in his hands or bible analysis since the beginning of the world, say when it will be the  end of the world. No human being.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: ~Souza~ on January 21, 2012, 03:53:34 PM
Quote
It should also be clearly stated at this point that the world will not end on 12-21-2012; but it will end shortly after 2012! How long is “shortly”? Nobody knows a specific date; but it will probably be within the next few years (nobody living on earth now is going to grow old, unless you’re nearly there already). How can we be sure that this is true? If you keep watching, you will learn how, soon enough.

I will not comment on this. But again, no mortal, no human being on this earth can, with all the possible calculations in his hands or bible analysis since the beginning of the world, say when it will be the  end of the world. No human being.

That's true Anna, but I don't see TS giving an exact date. All I know is that all the signs are there (no pun intended) and if you understand the beasts of Revelation and the time prophecies in Daniel, it is pretty clear that we near the end. I have had the feeling for years that this bubble has to burst soon, something's in the air. We can say for sure when it happens, but I don't think that this can go on for another 100 years if you see how rapidly this world is falling apart. It actually amazes me. Even if you don't believe in the Bible prophecies (as I did only a short time ago) you at least would have to see that if nothing changes, we will destroy ourselves very soon.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: ~Souza~ on January 21, 2012, 03:54:47 PM
Thanks TS, gonna read.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Andrea on January 21, 2012, 04:00:43 PM
Thank you TS, I'm in the middle of reading the link you provided.  It is A LOT to take in.  Ok, back to reading...
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: _Anna_ on January 21, 2012, 04:04:27 PM
I will not comment on TS' subjects from now, read them or check them. Because this was the proof of what is behind all this. Not what's behind Michael's hoax, but what's behind TS' character. For me this was the last proof. I will not be part of this. I don't understand who this character is, why he came here and why he chose Michael's subject to further this agenda. Enough. I will not be part of this.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: hesouttamylife on January 21, 2012, 04:06:23 PM
 :? This is getting scay. Don’t know exactly what to say yet  :?  I will say, however, that the signs of the times are to me very, very clear.  I see it everyday in the disasters both manmade and natural.  I see phrophesy coming to pass right before my eyes when I look at the way people are living their lives as f anything and everything goes.  Moral decadence is abundant. Children are turning against and smiting their parents.  Parents are no longer bonded to their chidren.  I could go on and on.  It is obvious even to the blind that the world is free falling into ill repair.  But is there a way to change this? to turn it around?  How does Michael figure into the solution?  And if he is to be revered as the 2nd coming does that mean then that he indeed did die?  I am getting a little confused.  These things I must ponder for a while, come back and read again.  I think I’m a little taken aback.  Carry on.  Ill catch up.  /white flag/
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: loyalfan on January 21, 2012, 04:11:34 PM
this is too way off for me..............as far as i am concerned,this is off the radar and not to do with michael.just my own opinion,and i know a lot of people here will not agree with it.but we are all allowed our opinion...love to you all xxxxxx
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Sarah31 on January 21, 2012, 04:13:35 PM
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=22007.msg386127#msg386127
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: GINAFELICIA on January 21, 2012, 04:15:10 PM
I will not comment on TS' subjects from now, read them or check them. Because this was the proof of what is behind all this. Not what's behind Michael's hoax, but what's behind TS' character. For me this was the last proof. I will not be part of this. I don't understand who this character is, why he came here and why he chose Michael's subject to further this agenda. Enough. I will not be part of this.
I understand your concern.
TS I must say it's a big change to see no mentioning of Michael Jackson in your post from today. I got to ask where is MJ's place in this topic?
This is too serious. Are you MJ or not?
I'm asking because I've always thought MJ has a special destiny/mission on this earth, so I can picture him in your position now, preaching about the EOW, especially because he is familiar with this kind of actions since he was young. Yet how can I be sure you are him/speak in his name  :-\ ? Because I WILL NOT LISTEN/FOLLOW TO ANYBODY ELSE BUT HIM.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: MichaelsAngel on January 21, 2012, 04:15:36 PM
.  But is there a way to change this? to turn it around?  How does Michael figure into the solution?  And if he is to be revered as the 2nd coming does that mean then that he indeed did die?  I am getting a little confused.  /white flag/

I'm confused as well.  :?:
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: _Anna_ on January 21, 2012, 04:23:32 PM
I will leave from this moment from this forum, but I will forward this forum to the family to read it and decide what they will do if they consider to do something. If I were from US I would denounce this and what it has turned into, going to this extent furthering this agenda using Michael.

I won't be part of it by ignoring it. I will further this to the family and to authorities if necessary. I will tell all the Jacksons first, and maybe they will do something. If not, then I will further this all to the authorities.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: bindupbrokenhearted on January 21, 2012, 04:29:18 PM
I only skimmed the post over there.  RTRL.

Right now, I am going to take time to collect thoughts and do research, etc. 

And pray about this.

I will likely write more later when I have the time. 

Peace and God's love too all.  bearhug

PS: Should the last word be 'God'? 

Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: scorpionchik on January 21, 2012, 04:29:31 PM
WOW............... :? :roll: 
SINCE WE ARE  APPARENTLY ON MICHAEL'S SIDE, WHAT EXACTLY  OUR ROLE IS OR SHOULD BE? I DID NOT GET WHAT REPRESENTS MICHAEL'S REASON OF HOAX AND COME BACK IN THIS STORY/BIBLE, WHATEVER IT IS.

TS, WHERE ELSE THIS IS POSTED BESIDES THIS WEBSITE?

TS, WHAT IS THE AGENDA IN GENERAL IF NOT THE SPREAD A FEAR THAT RESEMBLES TO ILLUMINATI NWO (EOW) GOAL=TO KEEP PEOPLE IN FEAR. IS ILLUMINATI LUCIFER PERHAPS?

STILL MISSING SOMETHING..... YEAH CONNECTION/PARALLEL/DOTS WITH REALITY  /pull hair/ SINCE THE STORY IS MORE METAPHORICAL.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: GINAFELICIA on January 21, 2012, 04:32:26 PM
I will leave from this moment from this forum, but I will forward this forum to the family to read it and decide what they will do if they consider to do something. If I were from US I would denounce this and what it has turned into, going to this extent furthering this agenda using Michael.

I won't be part of it by ignoring it. I will further this to the family and to authorities if necessary. I will tell all the Jacksons first, and maybe they will do something. If not, then I will further this all to the authorities.

Don't you think the Jacksons already know about it? Jermaine knows.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: _Anna_ on January 21, 2012, 04:34:55 PM
Jermaine doesn't know shit. He just knows about the hoax. And for sure he has no idea about anything else. If Michael is not here then no one from the family reads this forum.


I thought again, I will not further this to the family, as they ignore most of the things, and if they do TS will say "The family didn't speak against me so this means they support me and the message I spread".


But I will further this to the authorities.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: iamamjbeliever on January 21, 2012, 04:40:09 PM
THE WORLD WONT END, OMG...I DONE WITH THIS FOOLISHNESS
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: GINAFELICIA on January 21, 2012, 04:44:30 PM
We can not know the world will end or not. Maybe it will, maybe not.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: ~Souza~ on January 21, 2012, 04:47:19 PM
Jermaine doesn't know shit. He just knows about the hoax. And for sure he has no idea about anything else. If Michael is not here then no one from the family reads this forum.


I thought again, I will not further this to the family, as they ignore most of the things, and if they do TS will say "The family didn't speak against me so this means they support me and the message I spread".


But I will further this to the authorities.

Okay, and you are going to tell them what exactly? That a Bible study was posted on a forum about RELIGION? I rather would have had it on here to be honest, but maybe TS is trying to avoid people like you by posting it there. Good luck Anna, and I will help you a hand with leaving, since you are one of the few I addressed in one of my recent posts. Your first comment in this thread is: I am not going to comment. What went wrong?

@bindupbrokenhearted: you are right, but that's totally my fault. TS had trouble posting again (that's why it said 'coming soon' first, so he asked me if I could do it for him, but I copied his file wrongly. There are some things he put in italic too in his original post as I see now, so I hope that I can fix that, but the last sentence is now fixed. Thanks for the heads up.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: MichaelsAngel on January 21, 2012, 04:51:07 PM
We can not know the world will end or not. Maybe it will, maybe not.

I agree
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Andrea on January 21, 2012, 04:58:45 PM
I've finished reading The Sign's post.  I'll have to read it again but it took me over an hour to read it once so I need to step back from the computer for a while.

"Keep the faith" has suddenly taken on a whole new meaning and come what may, I will always be on Michael's side.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: GINAFELICIA on January 21, 2012, 04:59:32 PM
Jermaine doesn't know shit. He just knows about the hoax. And for sure he has no idea about anything else. If Michael is not here then no one from the family reads this forum.


I thought again, I will not further this to the family, as they ignore most of the things, and if they do TS will say "The family didn't speak against me so this means they support me and the message I spread".


But I will further this to the authorities.

Okay, and you are going to tell them what exactly? That a Bible study was posted on a forum about RELIGION? I rather would have had it on here to be honest, but maybe TS is trying to avoid people like you by posting it there. Good luck Anna, and I will help you a hand with leaving, since you are one of the few I addressed in one of my recent posts. Your first comment in this thread is: I am not going to comment. What went wrong?

@bindupbrokenhearted: you are right, but that's totally my fault. TS had trouble posting again (that's why it said 'coming soon' first, so he asked me if I could do it for him, but I copied his file wrongly. There are some things he put in italic too in his original post as I see now, so I hope that I can fix that, but the last sentence is now fixed. Thanks for the heads up.

I think you know the questions running through my head now.
I hope everything will finally become clear by the end of this year.

The Sign said:
Quote
Not only does the devil deceive, but he deceives the whole world on the very same reason why he was kicked out of heaven—for demanding that angels should be able to sit on God’s throne! Just take a look at any and all pictures and drawings of the ark; search “ark of the covenant” on Google images, or some other search engine. Or look through ark pictures in religious materials.
In all cases, you will find the angels are standing on the throne, kneeling on the throne, crouching on the throne, or whatever; but always on the throne! However, angels are not even allowed to sit on God’s throne, much less have their feet on His throne!!! What blasphemy! The devil has a good laugh, no doubt.
There is one ark, though, depicted with a few different yet similar illustrations, where the angels are beside the ark and mercy seat—which is exactly where they belong! And this is the true ark; any and all arks with angels on top of the mercy seat are most certainly counterfeit.
For those might think that the story of Lucifer and God’s throne is symbolic, and not literal, the point here is still the same. God would not design the ark of the covenant to represent symbolic error (angels on the throne); no, He would design it to represent the truth (angels beside the throne).

This is exactly what Souza said on the thread about the true ark.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Heartsong on January 21, 2012, 05:07:31 PM
I am confused too.

Was "what went to the hospital' ever finalised? Is the Ark connected to this?

I feel TS's current posts may help some find meaning in the apparent loss of Michael and his life purpose but I'm not sure how they are helping us find out WHAT happened regarding his 'death'.

Are we moving away from investigating his death hoax? Do we now just pick up our bibles and interpret our own correlations regarding the hoax?

All the woo is making this harder and harder to work out, not easier, at least for me.

With respect and love. 
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: MissG on January 21, 2012, 05:51:24 PM
In December of 2009, TS said the following: “Could there possibly be a relationship between the death hoax, and the unveiling of the Ark?  In fact, could both of these things be directly related to the end of the world (see R49)? … stayed tuned: this is not it, there’s more to come.  When the time is right, there will be further information about the Ark of the Covenant. … Again, stayed tuned to TIAI for more info on the Ark; this will certainly happen well before 12-21-2012.”

Today is the day; the time is right, for the information on the ark to come out loud and clear!  This redirect is about the detailed information on the ark of the covenant.  However, this one is very religious; so it has been posted in the other forum for religious discussion, with a link to it here {http://www.michaelsarmyoflove.com/forum/index.php?topic=56.msg118#msg118 (http://www.michaelsarmyoflove.com/forum/index.php?topic=56.msg118#msg118)}.

As documented very well by Souza in her last blog (redirect for January 11), there are indeed religious aspects of the MJ hoax. Nobody is required to read or join in the religious discussion; but please do not say that topics about the Bible and God are unrelated to Michael and the hoax.  I have repeatedly shown that the Bible, including and especially the end of the world, is a significant part of the hoax (12:21 phone call timing, and much more).

Please limit discussions, on this thread and where the article is posted, to the appropriate topic: the ark of the covenant, and how to distinguish the genuine from the counterfeits.

Thank you.

Point 17:
Misleading and NOT true. That theory has been debunked long ago since DNA was only tested by one particular group with one particular intention and R.W had.

Point 21:
Misleading, brainwashing technique based on fear. It has NOTHING to do with Michael Jackson. NOTHING.

Be ready for the EOW? really?....well, be ready for the end of your life (our lives) every day, because since we are born we are dying slowly and that day will come sooner or later, that we are sure about.

Playing the fear card on people is so low, TS.
Jesus, Mohammed or the green rabbit cannot make things better or worst as they are already.

People, focus in living your life happy and loving each other as you feel like it instead of getting afraid whit those theories which only agenda is to make you change your mind, faith or beliefs.

Do as you feel but don´t take TS´s words as "the gospel". Be objective and think for yourself.

If you want to know about the ark, go to the archeology department of the university of your area and ask for an expert there or a professor and ask the questions you want answers for. Get them from someone who is not conditionated by fulfilling one only agenda.

About the so called EOW, it can happen tomorrow or in 2000 years, so please, do NOT FEAR DEATH and you will get free. Don´t let others manipulate you with that fear.



Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: iamamjbeliever on January 21, 2012, 05:57:07 PM
The first time I have to agree with MissG
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Adi on January 21, 2012, 06:07:26 PM
Just woke up and checked the forum. I too had a feeling TS that you might post on the 21st.

Will go and read now with my morning coffee.

Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: MissG on January 21, 2012, 06:13:05 PM
Why does it say at the end of the post.

« Last Edit: January 21, 2012, 10:38:01 PM by ~Souza~ » when the post came from "The Sing" member?

Whatever, I am just amazed seeing how Michael Jackson´s theme has been push on the side for that.

@TS, I always saw you like a modern times preacher from pc to pc instead of door to door but using Michael Jackson supporters and feeding false clues to fulfill YOUR faith agenda on their pain, giving them hope is not what the good samaritan does.

What make you think that this is what Michael Jackson wanted? IF Michael wanted his supporters to follow his beliefs he would have ask straight to us.

I would really like to have a word with you, voice to voice sort to speak, so I am opening a skype account right the way.

Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: fordtocarr on January 21, 2012, 06:15:20 PM
I will not comment on TS' subjects from now, read them or check them. Because this was the proof of what is behind all this. Not what's behind Michael's hoax, but what's behind TS' character. For me this was the last proof. I will not be part of this. I don't understand who this character is, why he came here and why he chose Michael's subject to further this agenda. Enough. I will not be part of this.
Before I get my intentions misunderstood, I am not leaving the forum..nor want to.  I have had to step back numerous times as some of you had advised me to do.  So I observe.  This is one of those times. 

I agree with you Anna and quite a few others too.  It brings tears to my eyes.  This all could very well be correct or Michael's doing, but, I know there are too many religions trying to pinpoint when the end comes...my choice of religion has done it as well.  Ts has stated that there are ties to Michael and religion, however, that is simply stating an opinion.  I do not want to sound negative or unbelieving, or disrespectful, but in the end times, it is THE utmost importance to guard your heart and soul.  If it does not come from my choice of religion I'm not part of it.  I'm thrilled you bros and sisters on here are looking into the bible because of ts sending you to do so.  I hope he does represent Michael and leads you to where I am without his help.  What he does strengthens my faith in what I believe, and if he's not on that page, then..."if he's not with Jah, he's against him" and not for me.
  Not that I won't be here, or reading, or even posting if I feel compelled to do so, I try not to...but I will be just waiting to see where this goes.
Friends, I am not sitting on the fence about TS.  My loyalties are with Jah, and for me that's not the hoax.  I'm here for Michael and if the two ARE in the end intertwined, so be it.  I'm still 100% the "fan" (what a weak word) of Michael as I have been for 44 years.  And I am also, a witness of Jah (even though inactive).
I don't care if they are intertwined, and TS/Michael, forgive me if they are related, but, I believe you hoaxed your death.  And I have the truth of the bible in what I've found to be correct.  So, I guess my journey here is with other aspects of your why.  I, of course, along with my sisters Aussie and Shy will take what you give spiritually and  see if you REALLY represent what we know Michael believed and took to his heart with what his lyrics, voice and sending his kids to the hall with his mother show to me.  Let alone his return to the halls.
Love and no disrespect, but, only time will show what proofs are needed.  Be it the hoax reasons, Michael's death, TS/Front/Backs authenticity or the topic and prediction to the end of this wicked system of things and the ushering in of the new system. 
I'd rather work on making sure I'm following  Jah's words to even be part of it all.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: SimPattyK on January 21, 2012, 06:23:06 PM
[...]Right now, I am going to take time to collect thoughts and do research, etc. 
And pray about this.
I will likely write more later when I have the time. 
Peace and God's love too all.  bearhug[...]

+1 ;)
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: SimPattyK on January 21, 2012, 06:28:40 PM
[...]
Was "what went to the hospital' ever finalised?

Is the Ark connected to this?
[...]
^^ 2 questions that popped into my head, too!
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Sarah31 on January 21, 2012, 06:36:11 PM

The Sign said:
Quote
Not only does the devil deceive, but he deceives the whole world on the very same reason why he was kicked out of heaven—for demanding that angels should be able to sit on God’s throne! Just take a look at any and all pictures and drawings of the ark; search “ark of the covenant” on Google images, or some other search engine. Or look through ark pictures in religious materials.
In all cases, you will find the angels are standing on the throne, kneeling on the throne, crouching on the throne, or whatever; but always on the throne! However, angels are not even allowed to sit on God’s throne, much less have their feet on His throne!!! What blasphemy! The devil has a good laugh, no doubt.
There is one ark, though, depicted with a few different yet similar illustrations, where the angels are beside the ark and mercy seat—which is exactly where they belong! And this is the true ark; any and all arks with angels on top of the mercy seat are most certainly counterfeit.
For those might think that the story of Lucifer and God’s throne is symbolic, and not literal, the point here is still the same. God would not design the ark of the covenant to represent symbolic error (angels on the throne); no, He would design it to represent the truth (angels beside the throne).

This is exactly what Souza said on the thread about the true ark.

Oops!

Then the most important part of all the fake arks: the cherubim. On nearly EVERY image of the Ark, the cherubim are placed ON the mercy seat. The Ark was God's throne on earth. Just like on the throne he sits upon in heaven, the Ark has covering cherubim:

"The LORD reigneth; let the people tremble: he sitteth between the cherubims; let the earth be moved."
(Psalm 99:1)

"O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, that dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth: thou hast made heaven and earth."
(Isaiah 37:16)

Nowhere in the Bible does it ever indicate that angels sat UPON God's throne. Satan wanted it, but was cast out of heaven for it. He was jealous of Jesus, who DID sit on the throne besides the Father. Satan was one of the highest angels, so if HE couldn't sit on God's throne, how would angels lower ranked than he be allowed?

http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=21759.msg380623#msg380623
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: MissG on January 21, 2012, 06:38:51 PM
Actually, more than one by one word via skype, I think it´s going to be much better a "congregation" of us joining a voice chat, but not to listen about faith or religious topics, just about why Michael is dead or alive.

Enough with hiding behind a computer.

I joined this forum to know about Michael and it´s "my choice" reading or not TS and my RESPONSIBILITY as a human being to warn others when I see wrong doing.
Many of TS´s posts were entertaining enough when came to "disect" Michael´s life, but EOW and religion has been shoved for too long already.

A forum it´s created by it´s members and happens that this forum was apparently created to find the truth about what happened to MICHAEL JACKSON. How on earth has "doomsday" anything to do with what happened to Michael Jackson? How???

Another thing, according to different sources, back in 1998 was when the so called End of the phucking world happened. I remember it very well because I was in my last year of University for my 1st career.

And, one does not need any religion to tell you about the end. We are the ones destroying the world with our greed and actions every single day.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Do on January 21, 2012, 06:53:08 PM

A forum it´s created by it´s members and happens that this forum was apparently created to find the truth about what happened to MICHAEL JACKSON. How on earth has "doomsday" anything to do with what happened to Michael Jackson? How???

Exactly what I'm feeling about this. You made some really good posts. And out of all the reasons we believed Michael was hoaxing his death for (and the members over here came up with quite some) I never dreamed we would end with something like this. I am very confused about it (not scared about EOW though) but.....what happened......??!!!
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: bindupbrokenhearted on January 21, 2012, 06:55:28 PM
Jermaine doesn't know shit. He just knows about the hoax. And for sure he has no idea about anything else. If Michael is not here then no one from the family reads this forum.


I thought again, I will not further this to the family, as they ignore most of the things, and if they do TS will say "The family didn't speak against me so this means they support me and the message I spread".


But I will further this to the authorities.

Okay, and you are going to tell them what exactly? That a Bible study was posted on a forum about RELIGION? I rather would have had it on here to be honest, but maybe TS is trying to avoid people like you by posting it there. Good luck Anna, and I will help you a hand with leaving, since you are one of the few I addressed in one of my recent posts. Your first comment in this thread is: I am not going to comment. What went wrong?

@bindupbrokenhearted: you are right, but that's totally my fault. TS had trouble posting again (that's why it said 'coming soon' first, so he asked me if I could do it for him, but I copied his file wrongly. There are some things he put in italic too in his original post as I see now, so I hope that I can fix that, but the last sentence is now fixed. Thanks for the heads up.

Thanks Souza!  It is just my virgo perfectionism coming out again :lol: 

One thing that I saw while reading over the post my first read through:

Quote
Last, but certainly not least, the new covenant had to be signed with Christ’s literal blood; otherwise, there would be no way to verify the identity of Who signed. The main purpose of a signature is to verify the identity of the one who signed the contract. With handwritten ink, it’s difficult but possible to forge a signature and thereby give a false identity. With blood and DNA, it is even harder to falsify the identity.
With the blood that Ron Wyatt found on the mercy seat of the true ark, the identity is impossible to counterfeit. Normal humans have 46 chromosomes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromosome). However, the blood of Jesus from the ark has only 24 chromosomes (23 “X” from Mary, and 1 “Y” from God). This is very strong scientific evidence of the virgin birth (see Matthew 1:18-25; Luke 1:26-38; 3:23).

I need to do more research on this as karyotyping and archeology are not my areas, but I do know that DNA in the lab is VERY hard to keep even when preserved in lab settings.  So how would it be found, isolated, and chromosome number counted (with karyotyping http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karyotype which is the way chromosomes are counted)? How was this done if the blood is supposedly 2000 years old?  I have to question this and further research into it for sure. 

But...if karyotyping can't be done on 2000 year old blood, then RW's story has some holes in it. 

I almost think TS is just entertaining possible scenarios of where the ark is, which one is real, which is fake, and maybe this is a test.  IDK. 

I need to do more research and study and read and study the post some more.

Love and peace.

Edit: and IF the DNA DID miraculously keep, my question would be: why hasn't the karyotype been shown to the world?  One of two possibilities: either 1. bias (publication: media and/or scientific) and thus a deliberate keeping of info from the public or 2. RW's results are not real results.  For the record: I am not sure about any of this yet.  I just get the feeling TS is testing us maybe.  IDK, I could be wrong.  I do know TS has taught me a lot the short time I have been here, but I am not taking everything he says just because he says it.  He was the one that taught me to research it and re-research it. 

Love.

Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: MissG on January 21, 2012, 07:01:02 PM
DNA can´t keep for so long and any result from it would be erroneous and incomplete.

R.Wyatt had an agenda to fulfill. He has never been approved by the academy and never considered his expeditions legal. He was a "biblic" pseudo-archeologist.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Andrea on January 21, 2012, 07:15:50 PM
When I first read The Sign's post (and I've still only read it once), I noticed the end of it stopped mid-word.  I just went back to that post and now it appears that even more of the end has been cut off?
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Andrea on January 21, 2012, 07:29:57 PM
About the 2000+ year old blood, I found this (based on Ron Wyatt's explanation).

Quote
Mr. Wyatt removed a sample of Christ's blood from the Mercy Seat of the Ark in the cave and paid a lab in Israel to do an analysis of the blood.  They put the dark dried-out substance in saline solution for 72 hours, then added a growth medium to the blood for 48 hours.  Mr. Wyatt asked them to do a chromosome test, but they informed him that he was wasting his money since you can't do a chromosome test on dead white blood cells.  They proceeded with the analysis and said, "It's your money."  As they began viewing the cells under the microscope, they saw cells dividing before their eyes!  They could tell it was human blood, but "This blood is alive!"  They couldn't believe what they were seeing!    They continued with their tests and found the blood to be unique from any other human blood!  Each cell contained only 24 chromosomes compared to the normal count of 46 that you and I have.  Christ received 23 chromosomes from Mary, and one "y" chromosome from His heavenly Father to designate a male child.  Others in the lab were asked to come see for themselves.  With tears in their eyes they asked, "Whose blood is this?"  Mr. Wyatt replied, "It is the blood of your Messiah."  Then they asked who the Messiah was, and they began wailing and shouting.  No other male human being has ever had this same chromosome count!  Christ's blood is alive and unique to prove His divinity to the world before He returns to this earth.  When these tests are repeated for all the world to see, everyone will learn that Jesus was more than a preacher, He was and is the Son of God!

From : http://www.arkdiscovery.com/aoc-1.htm - you have to scroll just over half way down to find that particular paragraph. 
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: bindupbrokenhearted on January 21, 2012, 07:37:01 PM
About the 2000+ year old blood, I found this (based on Ron Wyatt's explanation).

Quote
Mr. Wyatt removed a sample of Christ's blood from the Mercy Seat of the Ark in the cave and paid a lab in Israel to do an analysis of the blood.  They put the dark dried-out substance in saline solution for 72 hours, then added a growth medium to the blood for 48 hours.  Mr. Wyatt asked them to do a chromosome test, but they informed him that he was wasting his money since you can't do a chromosome test on dead white blood cells.  They proceeded with the analysis and said, "It's your money."  As they began viewing the cells under the microscope, they saw cells dividing before their eyes!  They could tell it was human blood, but "This blood is alive!"  They couldn't believe what they were seeing!    They continued with their tests and found the blood to be unique from any other human blood!  Each cell contained only 24 chromosomes compared to the normal count of 46 that you and I have.  Christ received 23 chromosomes from Mary, and one "y" chromosome from His heavenly Father to designate a male child.  Others in the lab were asked to come see for themselves.  With tears in their eyes they asked, "Whose blood is this?"  Mr. Wyatt replied, "It is the blood of your Messiah."  Then they asked who the Messiah was, and they began wailing and shouting.  No other male human being has ever had this same chromosome count!  Christ's blood is alive and unique to prove His divinity to the world before He returns to this earth.  When these tests are repeated for all the world to see, everyone will learn that Jesus was more than a preacher, He was and is the Son of God!

From : http://www.arkdiscovery.com/aoc-1.htm - you have to scroll just over half way down to find that particular paragraph. 

Hey Andrea!

Thanks for the link!

But...they still don't provide evidence.  Where is the karyotyping?  Where are the photomicrographs (pics of cells under microscope)?  If they found what they found, they should have this evidence.  Or they do have this evidence and don't show it for some reason (bias?  fear of repercussions? Conspiracy?)?  However, one thing is for sure, regardless of any topic, any conspiracy, making conclusions without evidence would never fly in the peer reviewed scientific literature.

I am open to all possibilities, just skeptical and need better evidence than what I have found thus far...

With peace and love.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: melody on January 21, 2012, 07:37:46 PM
Is "The Truth Will Prevail" the last section? and is it suppose to end with "intend to or not"? What was the last thing you read Andrea?
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on January 21, 2012, 07:41:05 PM
All I know is that all the signs are there (no pun intended) and if you understand the beasts of Revelation and the time prophecies in Daniel, it is pretty clear that we near the end. I have had the feeling for years that this bubble has to burst soon, something's in the air. We can say for sure when it happens, but I don't think that this can go on for another 100 years if you see how rapidly this world is falling apart. It actually amazes me. Even if you don't believe in the Bible prophecies (as I did only a short time ago) you at least would have to see that if nothing changes, we will destroy ourselves very soon.

this post resonates with my soul. a conversation our family has frequesntly and wholeheartedly believe in exactly everything you have mentioned. ecc.8:9 - man has dominated man to his injury.

i say bring it god on! we need change.

yes indeed, daniels prophecy and the prophecy of revelation, combined with jesus prohpetic words that detail signs of the 'last days' all indicate that this is the current time we live in, is in fact 'the last days' according to the bible (for those that believe it)

its not all doom and gloom. god welcomes you to receive salvation... (praise yah)

i will leave it at that to ensure i dont go too off topic.

my next post will be about the ark - promise!
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Heartsong on January 21, 2012, 07:43:03 PM
Jermaine doesn't know shit. He just knows about the hoax. And for sure he has no idea about anything else. If Michael is not here then no one from the family reads this forum.


I thought again, I will not further this to the family, as they ignore most of the things, and if they do TS will say "The family didn't speak against me so this means they support me and the message I spread".


But I will further this to the authorities.

Okay, and you are going to tell them what exactly? That a Bible study was posted on a forum about RELIGION? I rather would have had it on here to be honest, but maybe TS is trying to avoid people like you by posting it there. Good luck Anna, and I will help you a hand with leaving, since you are one of the few I addressed in one of my recent posts. Your first comment in this thread is: I am not going to comment. What went wrong?

@bindupbrokenhearted: you are right, but that's totally my fault. TS had trouble posting again (that's why it said 'coming soon' first, so he asked me if I could do it for him, but I copied his file wrongly. There are some things he put in italic too in his original post as I see now, so I hope that I can fix that, but the last sentence is now fixed. Thanks for the heads up.

Thanks Souza!  It is just my virgo perfectionism coming out again :lol: 

One thing that I saw while reading over the post my first read through:

Quote
Last, but certainly not least, the new covenant had to be signed with Christ’s literal blood; otherwise, there would be no way to verify the identity of Who signed. The main purpose of a signature is to verify the identity of the one who signed the contract. With handwritten ink, it’s difficult but possible to forge a signature and thereby give a false identity. With blood and DNA, it is even harder to falsify the identity.
With the blood that Ron Wyatt found on the mercy seat of the true ark, the identity is impossible to counterfeit. Normal humans have 46 chromosomes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromosome). However, the blood of Jesus from the ark has only 24 chromosomes (23 “X” from Mary, and 1 “Y” from God). This is very strong scientific evidence of the virgin birth (see Matthew 1:18-25; Luke 1:26-38; 3:23).

I need to do more research on this as karyotyping and archeology are not my areas, but I do know that DNA in the lab is VERY hard to keep even when preserved in lab settings.  So how would it be found, isolated, and chromosome number counted (with karyotyping http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karyotype which is the way chromosomes are counted)? How was this done if the blood is supposedly 2000 years old?  I have to question this and further research into it for sure. 

But...if karyotyping can't be done on 2000 year old blood, then RW's story has some holes in it. 

I almost think TS is just entertaining possible scenarios of where the ark is, which one is real, which is fake, and maybe this is a test.  IDK. 

I need to do more research and study and read and study the post some more.

Love and peace.

Edit: and IF the DNA DID miraculously keep, my question would be: why hasn't the karyotype been shown to the world?  One of two possibilities: either 1. bias (publication: media and/or scientific) and thus a deliberate keeping of info from the public or 2. RW's results are not real results.  For the record: I am not sure about any of this yet.  I just get the feeling TS is testing us maybe.  IDK, I could be wrong.  I do know TS has taught me a lot the short time I have been here, but I am not taking everything he says just because he says it.  He was the one that taught me to research it and re-research it. 

Love.

Since I am an eternal skeptic, this quote raised in me these questions:

1. How do they know it is blood from Jesus? It could be anythings blood if it even is blood.

2. On what basis do they assume 1 chromosome is from God? How do you verify this is so and doesn't the father contribute half of the chromosmes therefore if this was the case there should be 12 Y chromosomes?

3. Human DNA has 46 chromosomes (23 from mother and 23 from father) or 47 if Down syndrome. How can a substance only showing 24 chromosomes be considered human?

Item of interest: VITACEAE: family of flowering plants including the GRAPEVINE. Most species have 38 chromosomes but CISSUS has 24. Maybe what appears to be blood was simply spilt wine!

4. To confirm the identity of an individual by their DNA you need to be able to compare that sample with one from either the mother, the father or the individual themselves. This is the purpose of 'cheek cell sampling' when trying to determine a murderers identity from a given sample of people. Since we have none of those in regards to this sample conclusions as to it's origin should be made with caution imo.

5. When would Jesus have been able to come into contact with the mercy seat of the true ark?

Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Andrea on January 21, 2012, 07:43:38 PM
@melody - Yes it was the 'Truth will prevail' section.  I think that's the last section as it's number 21.  The last word I originally read was 'Go' and I think it was supposed to be 'God'.  Being on the side of God or something to that effect.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Sarah31 on January 21, 2012, 07:46:29 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Wyatt

Ronald Eldon Wyatt (1933 – August 4, 1999) was an adventurer and former nurse anaesthetist noted for advocating the Durupınar site as the site of Noah's Ark, among other Bible-related pseudoarchaeology. His claims were dismissed by scientists, historians, biblical scholars, and even by leaders in his own Seventh-day Adventist Church, but his work continues to have a following among some fundamentalists and evangelicals.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Andrea on January 21, 2012, 07:47:41 PM
About the 2000+ year old blood, I found this (based on Ron Wyatt's explanation).

Quote
Mr. Wyatt removed a sample of Christ's blood from the Mercy Seat of the Ark in the cave and paid a lab in Israel to do an analysis of the blood.  They put the dark dried-out substance in saline solution for 72 hours, then added a growth medium to the blood for 48 hours.  Mr. Wyatt asked them to do a chromosome test, but they informed him that he was wasting his money since you can't do a chromosome test on dead white blood cells.  They proceeded with the analysis and said, "It's your money."  As they began viewing the cells under the microscope, they saw cells dividing before their eyes!  They could tell it was human blood, but "This blood is alive!"  They couldn't believe what they were seeing!    They continued with their tests and found the blood to be unique from any other human blood!  Each cell contained only 24 chromosomes compared to the normal count of 46 that you and I have.  Christ received 23 chromosomes from Mary, and one "y" chromosome from His heavenly Father to designate a male child.  Others in the lab were asked to come see for themselves.  With tears in their eyes they asked, "Whose blood is this?"  Mr. Wyatt replied, "It is the blood of your Messiah."  Then they asked who the Messiah was, and they began wailing and shouting.  No other male human being has ever had this same chromosome count!  Christ's blood is alive and unique to prove His divinity to the world before He returns to this earth.  When these tests are repeated for all the world to see, everyone will learn that Jesus was more than a preacher, He was and is the Son of God!

From : http://www.arkdiscovery.com/aoc-1.htm - you have to scroll just over half way down to find that particular paragraph. 

Hey Andrea!

Thanks for the link!

But...they still don't provide evidence.  Where is the karyotyping?  Where are the photomicrographs (pics of cells under microscope)?  If they found what they found, they should have this evidence.  Or they do have this evidence and don't show it for some reason (bias?  fear of repercussions? Conspiracy?)?  However, one thing is for sure, regardless of any topic, any conspiracy, making conclusions without evidence would never fly in the peer reviewed scientific literature.

I am open to all possibilities, just skeptical and need better evidence than what I have found thus far...

With peace and love.


I'm not sure what evidence was presented at the time.  If the above actually happened and the wrong people found out, then there could've been a cover up, or evidence destroyed. 

And you're welcome for the link!  I haven't read it all through myself yet, maybe there will be more answers.  I will be studying other sites as well so as to not base my research on one or two sources.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: ~Souza~ on January 21, 2012, 07:49:10 PM
Why does it say at the end of the post.

« Last Edit: January 21, 2012, 10:38:01 PM by ~Souza~ » when the post came from "The Sing" member?

Whatever, I am just amazed seeing how Michael Jackson´s theme has been push on the side for that.


Michael's 'theme' is as much around on here as ever, there is just less news. If you have any hoax topics to start, please do so because I (and apparently many others) haven't any. About the editing, simply read the thread on here and find your answer. Nothing mysterious there to conspire about, sorry.

As for the rest:

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

It might be TS posting, but both the forums are mine and I have a final say in what will be allowed to post and what not. So that means when TS is being violently attacked, I feel violently attacked as well for having it on here. Clearly stage one (ridicule) is passed us, and now we are at stage two. I could do two things:

1. I bend and remove this from the forum(s) and will make some people on here happy that it's gone.
2. I stand by my trust in TS, my own common sense and will stand for what I believe is right.

Those who have been around long enough will know that option 1 is not an option for me. So if you don't agree with certain decisions I make, then that's okay. Like I explained in my blog: I will be tha LAST person to tell you to read your Bible, so I won't. I also said I respect everyone's beliefs (or lack of for that matter). I got interested in the Bible not because of TS, but because of Michael and no one else. I also have a strong belief that this particular subject is something that has interested Michael for a very long time. The fact that he says to Batshit that he doesn't want to die, or grow old even, is for me undeniable proof that Michael  believes in the EOW and eternal life after it. He has been studying the Bible his whole life, and he did not do that because he didn't believe a word it says. This forum is about Michael's hoax; absolutely true, but this hoax can not be understood without understanding his life, and Michael himself puts God above his own mother who he adores so much (Moonwalk). That means God -and therefore His WORDS as well- is VERY important to him. I want to know what Michael's big lifework is about, what his plan is and therefore I choose to study what he studied. It's important hoaxwise because it's important Michaelwise, and this forum is about Michael. Why is it okay to discuss his views on music, life itself or movies, but not his beliefs? Why would that be less important when he himself has said so many times how important it is for him? I don't get the strong reactions. Is it because TS says the world will end soon? Does that scare you? It doesn't scare me for a second and I would be happy if it happened tomorrow. The religions believing in the EOW have the same kind of evidence that we have about the hoax, and even stronger in my opinion.

We (as hoaxers) have been ridiculed and are now being violently opposed, simply because we can not give them the truth (Michael in this case0 on a silver platter. But we know we are right. We know stage three will come one day soon. We know that because we have read the threads on this forum, connected dots, depicted every tiny bit of evidence to strengthen our faith and to show people that we are not crazy. But some don't want to see it or even read up upon it because it would go against their own beliefs about Michael. There are far more non-believers than believers and yet we know that we (the minority) will have the last laugh. Does that mean that all theories are right, or that even one of the members on here has it all figured out? I don't think so. There are thousands of members on this forum, and not two of them agree completely on everything. That means that out of roughly 5000 members, AT LEAST 4999 members have it wrong. What are the odds that that 1 member has it all figured out? Same with all the thousands of christian religions in the world, I don't think that there is one religion that has it all right, that is why I will never be a part of any of them. But as a whole, they all share the same belief: God is real, Jesus is real and the Bible is truth. Just like we all have the same belief that Michael is alive. This hoax is one big parallel with the Bible and it doesn't matter what you believe or what I believe, it matters what Michael believes because he is directing this show. So in order to understand his message we should study what he studied. That doesn't mean you have to believe it too but it should be at least worth reading.

I know that my decision on this will make members leave. I would hate to see some go, I would be glad if certain others left (although some will leave this week for other reasons, as I posted about before). Gema, you know I disagree with you most of the time and vice versa, but I like you as a person and I like your humor, so I hope that you will decide to stay here, whether or not you choose to read the religious threads. They can be ignored by those not interested, everyone has an own free will. Seeing that many opposition, attacks, ridicule and accusations even strengthen my faith that I am doing the right thing by allowing it on here, because it's history repeating. Only eight people were ready when the flood came, even less when brimstone came out of heaven at Sodom and Gomorra. I bet Noah was ridiculed and attacked, but we all know who had the last laugh. The more I study the Bible, the more I understand in this hoax, and the more peace of mind it gives me. Maybe there will only be a handful left at the end, possible, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong on this.

So to everyone that wants to leave because of this: I will not hold you down or try to convince you. Some I might miss, some I might miss like migraine, but if you have to go then just go.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: hesouttamylife on January 21, 2012, 07:51:22 PM
It is written that during the last supper, the 12 disciples drank the blood of Jesus.  Blood of my blood. Flesh of my flesh.  Now it is alleged that he had living blood  :shock: Would give a whole new meaning to the phrase, “that where you may go, I will be also, even until the end of age." 
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: bindupbrokenhearted on January 21, 2012, 07:51:50 PM


Since I am an eternal skeptic, this quote raised in me these questions:

1. How do they know it is blood from Jesus? It could be anythings blood if it even is blood.

2. On what basis do they assume 1 chromosome is from God? How do you verify this is so and doesn't the father contribute half of the chromosmes therefore if this was the case there should be 12 Y chromosomes?

3. Human DNA has 46 chromosomes (23 from mother and 23 from father) or 47 if Down syndrome. How can a substance only showing 24 chromosomes be considered human?

Item of interest: VITACEAE: family of flowering plants including the GRAPEVINE. Most species have 38 chromosomes but CISSUS has 24. Maybe what appears to be blood was simply spilt wine!

4. To confirm the identity of an individual by their DNA you need to be able to compare that sample with one from either the mother, the father or the individual themselves. This is the purpose of 'cheek cell sampling' when trying to determine a murderers identity from a given sample of people. Since we have none of those in regards to this sample conclusions as to it's origin should be made with caution imo.

5. When would Jesus have been able to come into contact with the mercy seat of the true ark?



You bring up some good points and questions Heartsong!  At this point, RW's story and claims seem like they have a lot of holes, but I am still open to researching all possibilities.  But...yes, you raised a lot of good questions.  It is good to be skeptical and so am I.

I think RW claimed that number 5 was due to a crack and blood falling in that crack.  On the link Andrea provided:  http://www.arkdiscovery.com/aoc-1.htm  Not saying I believe this right now, just saying that is what RW claimed.

Love.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: ~Souza~ on January 21, 2012, 07:53:37 PM
As for more words disappearing, I am totally fucking up TS' post. I am adding the italics (as explained in one of my posts above/previous page(s), but it seems there is a limit of words. Probably why TS couldn't get it up himself. I will (for now) post 21 in a new post under the topic and email TS back and ask him what he wants, because this post is driving me nuts.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on January 21, 2012, 07:57:28 PM
hesouttamylife. i am pretty sure the blood was figurative.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on January 21, 2012, 08:07:18 PM
Why do some people comment on this page, saying how "rediculous" and "foolish" the EOW theory is. How can you say "THE WORLD WON'T END OMG"? Are you just scared? Because I know there's no way you would have read the entire article that The Sign wrote, and have only that to say about it. Please don't call the theory "foolish" when you haven't even read it, and when you have nothing to back your "claims" up. Try having an open mind, read the entire article a few times, and then come back with your opinions. Okay? I'm just saying. And if you don't believe it, then just simply close the page and move on instead of calling someone else's belief "foolish".   bangbang

To Michael, and whoever else is behind that username: Thank you so much, for everything. Really, this hoax has opened my eyes to so many things. And this newest post... I'm just speechless. I've read it once, but I'm going to read it a few more times. Thank you so much.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Dontwalkaway on January 21, 2012, 08:13:01 PM
Thanks so much TS.  I will go and read about the Ark !  I've been looking for it.  This is so interesting and amazing !   I didn't know about Jesus' blood having a different number of chromosomes.  Interesting.  I'm going to try to read about that. 

I agree with you Souza.  It never hurts to learn about or read anything.  No one says you have to agree or you have to do anything you don't want to.   Knowledge is Power people !  and  "A Mind is a Terrible Thing to Waste".

Love You
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: SimPattyK on January 21, 2012, 08:38:41 PM
[...]I almost think TS is just entertaining possible scenarios of where the ark is, which one is real, which is fake, and maybe this is a test.  IDK.
(http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Respect/number1.gif) This idea ^^ together with what TS once said about theories that he might sustain, even if he didn't believe in them, don't get out of my mind ;)

I need to do more research and study and read and study the post some more.
[...]
Right! we all need to do this before drawing any precipitated conclusions.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: SimPattyK on January 21, 2012, 08:47:15 PM
[...]How on earth has "doomsday" anything to do with what happened to Michael Jackson? How???[...]
"DO you Think 4 your Self?" (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=9994.msg168361#msg168361) (--- CLICK
[...]
EOW:

E1. If the numerology and timing is not a coincidence (see M2 & S2): then why was the 911 call placed immediately at 12:21, unless it was to show that one of the main reasons for the hoax is to warn about the end of the world (that it’s near—even if it’s not at the end of the Mayan calendar, 2012)?

E2. Why did MJ specifically mention four more years in TII, unless he was referring to 2012 (and also the Sony movie with “Jackson” in it, etc)?

E3. MJ reads the Bible daily; and according to it, there will be an end to this world—and that end will come prior to the “new earth” (see Revelation 21:1; etc).  The memorial program actually mentioned that MJ looks forward to the new earth.  With these things in mind, how is it possible that the end of the world is not part of MJ’s message?
[...]
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: paula-c on January 21, 2012, 09:12:23 PM
Still i didn't read the full link to the other forum, but one thing i am going to say for now, i would remind you that someone opened a thread with pictures of Michael and people interested much in the pants of gold, are published pages and pages with photos, i want nor i am interested in influencing the beliefs of anyone in particular but there are people who cares more the size of the penis of Michael that other topics.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: MichaelsAngel on January 21, 2012, 09:17:04 PM
Still i didn't read the full link to the other forum, but one thing i am going to say for now, i would remind you that someone opened a thread with pictures of Michael and people interested much in the pants of gold, are published pages and pages with photos, i want nor i am interested in influencing the beliefs of anyone in particular but there are people who cares more the size of the penis of Michael that other topics.
Haha Paula!
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: ~Souza~ on January 21, 2012, 09:21:50 PM
Still i didn't read the full link to the other forum, but one thing i am going to say for now, i would remind you that someone opened a thread with pictures of Michael and people interested much in the pants of gold, are published pages and pages with photos, i want nor i am interested in influencing the beliefs of anyone in particular but there are people who cares more the size of the penis of Michael that other topics.

Hahahaha, that's why I ALWAYS read your posts, even if I have to struggle through them because there is often something unexpected at the end. And quoted for truth btw.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Andrea on January 21, 2012, 09:27:52 PM
:lol: paula!  Nice one.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: paula-c on January 21, 2012, 09:32:17 PM
 lolol/
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: SimPattyK on January 21, 2012, 09:33:59 PM
Quote from: TS
[...]
17. A Signature Identifies Who Signed - http://www.michaelsarmyoflove.com/forum/index.php?topic=56.msg118#msg118
[...]
With the blood that Ron Wyatt found on the mercy seat of the true ark, the identity is impossible to counterfeit. Normal humans have 46 chromosomes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromosome). However, the blood of Jesus from the ark has only 24 chromosomes (23 “X” from Mary, and 1 “Y” from God). This is very strong scientific evidence of the virgin birth (see Matthew 1:18-25; Luke 1:26-38; 3:23).[...]

Since I am an eternal skeptic, this quote raised in me these questions:

1. How do they know it is blood from Jesus? It could be anythings blood if it even is blood.
2. On what basis do they assume 1 chromosome is from God? How do you verify this is so and doesn't the father contribute half of the chromosmes therefore if this was the case there should be 12 Y chromosomes?
3. Human DNA has 46 chromosomes (23 from mother and 23 from father) or 47 if Down syndrome. How can a substance only showing 24 chromosomes be considered human?
Item of interest: VITACEAE: family of flowering plants including the GRAPEVINE. Most species have 38 chromosomes but CISSUS has 24. Maybe what appears to be blood was simply spilt wine!
4. To confirm the identity of an individual by their DNA you need to be able to compare that sample with one from either the mother, the father or the individual themselves. This is the purpose of 'cheek cell sampling' when trying to determine a murderers identity from a given sample of people. Since we have none of those in regards to this sample conclusions as to it's origin should be made with caution imo.
5. When would Jesus have been able to come into contact with the mercy seat of the true ark?
I loved your questions Heartsong!! ;)

[...]2. On what basis do they assume 1 chromosome is from God? How do you verify this is so[...]
exactly!! :lol:

[..]3. Human DNA has 46 chromosomes (23 from mother and 23 from father) or 47 if Down syndrome. How can a substance only showing 24 chromosomes be considered human?[...]
Like you, I was also not aware of any of this information, so I really can't comment anything else for now because I think i need to do some serious "digging" into it!
Nevertheless, I need to say that while reading, I had, again, one of those  WTF?? moments!! Number 24?? ---) AGAIN?? (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=22007.250) smiley_spider Surely a "coincidence"!!  :lol:

http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=22007.250

(http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/2017/mjelvisarealive03.jpg)
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Andrea on January 21, 2012, 09:36:53 PM
I think this is about the ultimate leap of faith.

If sh*t gets real, like badly, what harm is there in having faith? No matter what that faith may be.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: ~Souza~ on January 21, 2012, 09:37:41 PM
I watched this documentary about Ron Wyatt and his ark discovery, it might answer some questions. It's 27 (short) parts but very interesting, here is part one (rest on YouTube)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7oXIzS-BOg[/youtube]
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: TheRunningGirl on January 21, 2012, 10:09:41 PM
Thank You TS! You know your Bible! You are bringing it to life! Very impressive!

Front said: "Parallel lives, parallel paths" and this may well be a key to understanding HIStory.‬

We are in 2012! Year of the Dragon! The red Dragon with 7 heads and 10 horns is no other than Satan (Lucifer) who fights Archangel Michael near the End of Times!

Those are timely tweets from Nelson de la Nuez:
  ;) ;)

Quote
@kingofpopart
Nelson De La Nuez
#MichaelJackson art #davidLaChapelle photo @LAartShowSEEN pic.twitter.com/QvSjOPAp
(https://p.twimg.com/Ajt-GbLCQAAJJvX.jpg)
Tweet reference: https://twitter.com/#!/kingofpopart/status/160860860535947264 (https://twitter.com/#!/kingofpopart/status/160860860535947264)


Quote
@kingofpopart
Nelson De La Nuez
Info on #MichaelJackson photo art @LAartShowSEEN http://pic.twitter.com/XKP18ymX
(https://p.twimg.com/Ajt-WBhCEAAnEp8.jpg)
Tweet reference: https://twitter.com/#!/kingofpopart/status/160861128526794752 (https://twitter.com/#!/kingofpopart/status/160861128526794752)

I Love this painting!

With L.O.V.E
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: fordtocarr on January 21, 2012, 10:17:08 PM
Why does it say at the end of the post.

« Last Edit: January 21, 2012, 10:38:01 PM by ~Souza~ » when the post came from "The Sing" member?

Whatever, I am just amazed seeing how Michael Jackson´s theme has been push on the side for that.


Michael's 'theme' is as much around on here as ever, there is just less news. If you have any hoax topics to start, please do so because I (and apparently many others) haven't any. About the editing, simply read the thread on here and find your answer. Nothing mysterious there to conspire about, sorry.

As for the rest:

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

It might be TS posting, but both the forums are mine and I have a final say in what will be allowed to post and what not. So that means when TS is being violently attacked, I feel violently attacked as well for having it on here. Clearly stage one (ridicule) is passed us, and now we are at stage two. I could do two things:

1. I bend and remove this from the forum(s) and will make some people on here happy that it's gone.
2. I stand by my trust in TS, my own common sense and will stand for what I believe is right.

Those who have been around long enough will know that option 1 is not an option for me. So if you don't agree with certain decisions I make, then that's okay. Like I explained in my blog: I will be tha LAST person to tell you to read your Bible, so I won't. I also said I respect everyone's beliefs (or lack of for that matter). I got interested in the Bible not because of TS, but because of Michael and no one else. I also have a strong belief that this particular subject is something that has interested Michael for a very long time. The fact that he says to Batshit that he doesn't want to die, or grow old even, is for me undeniable proof that Michael  believes in the EOW and eternal life after it. He has been studying the Bible his whole life, and he did not do that because he didn't believe a word it says. This forum is about Michael's hoax; absolutely true, but this hoax can not be understood without understanding his life, and Michael himself puts God above his own mother who he adores so much (Moonwalk). That means God -and therefore His WORDS as well- is VERY important to him. I want to know what Michael's big lifework is about, what his plan is and therefore I choose to study what he studied. It's important hoaxwise because it's important Michaelwise, and this forum is about Michael. Why is it okay to discuss his views on music, life itself or movies, but not his beliefs? Why would that be less important when he himself has said so many times how important it is for him? I don't get the strong reactions. Is it because TS says the world will end soon? Does that scare you? It doesn't scare me for a second and I would be happy if it happened tomorrow. The religions believing in the EOW have the same kind of evidence that we have about the hoax, and even stronger in my opinion.

We (as hoaxers) have been ridiculed and are now being violently opposed, simply because we can not give them the truth (Michael in this case0 on a silver platter. But we know we are right. We know stage three will come one day soon. We know that because we have read the threads on this forum, connected dots, depicted every tiny bit of evidence to strengthen our faith and to show people that we are not crazy. But some don't want to see it or even read up upon it because it would go against their own beliefs about Michael. There are far more non-believers than believers and yet we know that we (the minority) will have the last laugh. Does that mean that all theories are right, or that even one of the members on here has it all figured out? I don't think so. There are thousands of members on this forum, and not two of them agree completely on everything. That means that out of roughly 5000 members, AT LEAST 4999 members have it wrong. What are the odds that that 1 member has it all figured out? Same with all the thousands of christian religions in the world, I don't think that there is one religion that has it all right, that is why I will never be a part of any of them. But as a whole, they all share the same belief: God is real, Jesus is real and the Bible is truth. Just like we all have the same belief that Michael is alive. This hoax is one big parallel with the Bible and it doesn't matter what you believe or what I believe, it matters what Michael believes because he is directing this show. So in order to understand his message we should study what he studied. That doesn't mean you have to believe it too but it should be at least worth reading.

I know that my decision on this will make members leave. I would hate to see some go, I would be glad if certain others left (although some will leave this week for other reasons, as I posted about before). Gema, you know I disagree with you most of the time and vice versa, but I like you as a person and I like your humor, so I hope that you will decide to stay here, whether or not you choose to read the religious threads. They can be ignored by those not interested, everyone has an own free will. Seeing that many opposition, attacks, ridicule and accusations even strengthen my faith that I am doing the right thing by allowing it on here, because it's history repeating. Only eight people were ready when the flood came, even less when brimstone came out of heaven at Sodom and Gomorra. I bet Noah was ridiculed and attacked, but we all know who had the last laugh. The more I study the Bible, the more I understand in this hoax, and the more peace of mind it gives me. Maybe there will only be a handful left at the end, possible, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong on this.

So to everyone that wants to leave because of this: I will not hold you down or try to convince you. Some I might miss, some I might miss like migraine, but if you have to go then just go.

I really, really like this post Souza girl :)  I've been quite intrigued by the changes in YOU and the why's of it.  I'm glad to understand now.  I have over 2 years now noticed changes in you, sometimes lately I'm surprised.  What you say in general as to your reasonings for studying or religion in the hoax makes sense to me I do have to admit.  I've been one that has been opposed to is, for my own reasons, but, what you say makes sense to me.  I'm not to say that I'm agreeing whole heartedly with any informer being the one to lead us into these discussions, as per Michael's request..but, to study what Michael has believed in hopes to know more about him and the hoax as perhaps guidelines now seems reasonable.  Not to use the forum as a bible study group or anyone leading us to specific topics to make us reach his interpretation of the bible or Michael's feelings, but as you said, to understand how Michael believed.
 
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Dontwalkaway on January 21, 2012, 10:38:15 PM
Heartsong, good questions.  I think your right.  We need a relative or the person him/herself to match the DNA from the blood.  But how do you know that we have none of those ?  Maybe there will be a match !!!!!  That's what I'm praying for !!   I'm sure there will be fakes, and scams so we have to be careful and research.  Remember the information about the Shroud of Turin.  There was blood on that also.  It was said that was a scam and a set up to match Prince William ????       

SimPattyK, I don't know but it doesn't seem like all of those 24's were a coincidence.  There's a lot of them !!!!

 8-)


Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: ibelieveinmj on January 21, 2012, 10:52:28 PM
TS..... /bravo/

Souza.... /bravo/

I am kind of speechless right now.  And despite the strong feelings I've had that this was where things were heading,or hoped was heading, I have remained an active "reader" to see it happen...

/woohoo/

p.s. Souza, it is great to see the change of heart !!

Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: bec on January 21, 2012, 10:53:08 PM
I liked the levels better.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: lilwendy on January 21, 2012, 11:04:36 PM
TS, TS_Comments, Souza, and all my fellow board members... thank you all for your contributions.  There is a lot of reading and studying to do!  Once done, I will contribute in whatever way I can. 

Regardless of how this information came to us, regardless of what agendas people believe the others have, just remember you control you. Read, study, pray to God for discernment/hope you can discern (depending on your beliefs), have what you learn transform your life.

I believe we all need to do our study, not only to be able to distinguish real from fake ark of the covenant, but also real from fake MJs, doctrines, information via media, etc.  The illusions run deep everyone and we need to learn to discern, in many many areas.

Remember even the most elect will be deceived!  That means those with evil agendas will not appear to have evil agendas.  (I am not implying at all that TS is appearing to be good but really attempting to deceive). This goes beyond TS and this board. 

I pray for all of us that we will have discernment in these end times (which I do wholeheartedly believe are here).

God bless you all.... off to read!
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: BeTheChange on January 21, 2012, 11:10:51 PM
I think this is about the ultimate leap of faith.

If sh*t gets real, like badly, what harm is there in having faith? No matter what that faith may be.

Very well put Andrea.  I cannot understand the animosity, sometimes outright hatred, that some people 'feel' after reading TS' posts.  I fully get feeling skeptical, unsure, confused, even frustrated...but anger or fear?  IMO, those that do feel those emotions are clouded by their lack of faith in the 'messenger'....so clouded that the 'message' keeps flying over their heads.  Cause I would bet just about anything that if Mike sat down with ANY one of them and said EXACTLY what TS wrote in his post....the LAST two things they would feel would be anger or fear.  Sure they might be confused, unsure, even question MJ on some of his beliefs...but their reactions would NOT be the same as what we're seeing here.  If they KNEW it was Mike speaking....they would actually listen to the 'message'.  And, IMO, therein lies the problem because it may just end up that by the time the 'messenger' can be 'confirmed' (to their liking)....they will have totally missed the 'message'.  And if or when the sh*t does hit the fan, playing 'catch-up' might not be an option.

So what harm is there in trying to understand the 'message'?  For those that are adament that there will be no EOW (of some sort) and/or don't 'agree' with what TS has to say but are at least willing to keep an open mind...then the BEST case scenario would be that nothing happens (no EOW, no final battle, no nothing).  At worst, you lost/wasted a few hours of your life reading and researching about stuff that didn't end up happening....life goes on (compared to the total # of hours you've wasted on other stuff that didn't mean anything, not that big a loss).   But if the sh*t does end up flying...and you've read and tried to understand the 'message', maybe you'll have learned something that helps you in some way...even if only to recognize the 'signs' as they appear.

I've only read the post once and had to go for a walk afterwards cause it was A LOT to take in.  I jotted some questions down as I was reading it but I'm gonna 'let it simmer' some more, sleep on it and then read it again in the morning.  Any questions that still remain after that, I'll post here.  Given the 'topic', I'm hoping TS will be able to engage in this conversation with us more so than he has in the past with other topics.

Edited to add the following....funny enough, THIS kept playing in the back of my mind the whole time I was reading TS' post.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKeA4vgmtxo[/youtube]

With L.O.V.E. always.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: WhiteNight on January 22, 2012, 12:10:10 AM

TS, TS_Comments, Souza, and all my fellow board members... thank you all for your contributions.  There is a lot of reading and studying to do!  Once done, I will contribute in whatever way I can. 

Regardless of how this information came to us, regardless of what agendas people believe the others have, just remember you control you. Read, study, pray to God for discernment/hope you can discern (depending on your beliefs), have what you learn transform your life.

I believe we all need to do our study, not only to be able to distinguish real from fake ark of the covenant, but also real from fake MJs, doctrines, information via media, etc.  The illusions run deep everyone and we need to learn to discern, in many many areas.

Remember even the most elect will be deceived!  That means those with evil agendas will not appear to have evil agendas.  (I am not implying at all that TS is appearing to be good but really attempting to deceive). This goes beyond TS and this board. 

I pray for all of us that we will have discernment in these end times (which I do wholeheartedly believe are here).

God bless you all.... off to read!


That was a fantastic post Wendy! Discernment is PARAMOUNT in these last days!


BeTheChange: Thanks for the post and video! ...VERY true!


I'm definitely gonna read the info that TS provided and I'll post again to share my views on the material. 

I think that we are headed in a very interesting direction! This is actually quite exciting!!!


TheRunningGirl: Great post!! It's nice to see you again!

SimPattyK: Thanks for the info on the #24!! I love that pic with Elvis wearing the calendar! When I was in high school, I was a part of the mariachi group and all of the gold metal decorations on our uniforms were Mayan calendars just like the one Elvis is wearing. *sigh* I miss playing in the group. lol


Bec: I liked the levels too. It was fun and challenging. But hey, I'm open to new challenges. This one is no exception. ^_^


Souza: That was a very good post! I agree with you. If people want to leave then they should. It would be in everyone’s best interest.

>>> They won't waste their time posting and we won't waste our time reading their abhorrent posts. << If that offended anyone, then own it!

But like I said in the other redirect thread, "I think it's time for us to shed some dead skin.” XDDDDDD


PS: Fore those who reject the Bible and its message about EOW… It would probably be a good idea to listen to Michael’s lyrics from “Shout” just to get an idea as to how he feels about this subject.


“…Masses of minds shrouded with clouded vision
Deceptions and indecisions
No faith of religion
How we’re living
The clock is ticking
The end is coming
There will be no warning…”

Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: MichaelsAngel on January 22, 2012, 12:21:36 AM
I'm just confused about whether TS is saying Michael will BAM before the EOW to help save us, if Michael did die and is going to come back at the EOW, or if Michael's BAM is unrelated to EOW. I think I need to read his post a couple more times to understand it better.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: RK on January 22, 2012, 12:24:17 AM
Quote
Same with all the thousands of christian religions in the world, I don't think that there is one religion that has it all right, that is why I will never be a part of any of them. But as a whole, they all share the same belief: God is real, Jesus is real and the Bible is truth. Just like we all have the same belief that Michael is alive. This hoax is one big parallel with the Bible and it doesn't matter what you believe or what I believe, it matters what Michael believes because he is directing this show.

I find this part of Souza's post profound. Seems this is would be a perfect time to allow labels to drop off. To be part of the ecclesia, one of a multitude who have responded to the call and become a citizen of Christ's kingdom is the only defining label that I put any faith in holding. I am totally persuaded that true peace and liberty cannot be found outside of Christ. There will be a lot to study and digest from this latest post from TS and will be back with some thoughts after I do the required research.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: bec on January 22, 2012, 12:35:11 AM
@TS: I tell you what, I can't get down with the God stuff. If I'm on Satan's side unless I get with it, well, in a handbasket I go.

I already know I'm going to work like a dog until the day I die. No retirement package will ever be mine. I already know I'll likely die sick and poor. Can't afford health insurance so that means no health care either. I can forget about those sunny beach vacations so many people seem to get. Never in the budget. The system has me by the proverbial balls, there is no escape, KAPISHE?

I don't think it behooves me to spend the little free time that I get focused on the end of the world nor on the Illuminati. I'm aware we are in peril. I'm aware the system sucks, oh TRUST me I'm aware. I need to spend my personal time on positive pursuits, some escape from that doom n gloom that is the world we all live in.

I need to focus on being alive for the time that I have, and pursuing happiness.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Heartsong on January 22, 2012, 01:12:22 AM
I need to focus on being alive for the time that I have, and pursuing happiness.

This I totally agree with. We must live the one life we know we have well, for it is all we really know for sure.

There have been dozens of doomsday predictions (many made based on biblical prophecies). NONE have come true.

Here is a website that lists them all http://www.abhota.info/end4.htm (http://www.abhota.info/end4.htm)
 
Even tho I think the bible is made up by men, I do know it pretty well and I am sure there is something in there to be said about false prophets and what God thinks of them.

If I believed in God, I would be very careful about EOW predictions since an incorrect prediction makes one a false prophet in the eyes of God.

I think I'll just live life by focusing on giving to others and treating our planet and the creatures that call it home with respect. We can change this world for the better. That for me is Michael's message.



 

Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: curls on January 22, 2012, 03:26:32 AM
I'll be honest here, my problem with all things God-related has been, for many, many years, that I cannot get over the feeling that it is arrogant of us, of Mankind, to think we know and can explain, it all. What makes us so special? This arrogance has brought the world to the state it's in now. A little humility in mankind in general, and stepping back from situations, reassessing, rather than always forging on, having to prove we can and we're right, would not go amiss.

IMO, If God didn't exist then we'd have invented him anyhow, as a carrot .... or a stick. Those in the 'carrot' category, frequently use him as a prop/support/guide through life's difficulties. I can think of no-one more likely to need/grasp this type of help than Michael Jackson with his stress filled life.

So here's a revolutionary thought - hey, Michael Jackson may not be right!  He might believe with all his being in God and prophesies regarding the end of the world etc, he may be doing everything in his power to alert the rest of mankind, and that might make him just about the most loving man to have ever lived, but that still doesn't necessarily make him right, any more than me being sceptical makes me right. I'm not being disrespectful here, I'm just thinking he's not 'god', he doesn't know it all, and he is just finding his way through life the best (albeit, incredible) way he can, like the rest of us!

I get the impression some think we have been tricked into 'religion' by reeling us in with MJ first, only to come in now with heavy God talk. I have always felt this was where the hoax was heading but TS has never 'tricked' anyone - he has always said to think for ourselves and not believe what he says just because he says it.

So this latest redirect should not cause panic and mass departures. If these are MJ's views via The Sign or TS or whoever, so be it, and if MJ has nothing to do with it, then TS has proved that many of us never did get the hang of 'thinking for ourselves'. Everyone is free to read or not, to research further or not, to agree or not.

And if the truth, which never seems to have prevailed so far in history, is about to be shown, and I am found on the wrong side, then that is meant to be, as I would not be the right material for the 'new world'.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: diggyon on January 22, 2012, 03:33:48 AM
I noticed that TS is only quoting from the Bible, only mentioning it as the main source. I believe that there are other Holy Books like the Talmud and the Quran that were never mentioned by him. I think if we would like to discuss a topic like the End of the World we should start to collect all the information from all the Holy Books there are and start to draw parallels in order to reach a certain point. These three holy Books combined together can give us exactly the information we need about old prophecies concerning the EOW. That's why I wouldn't just rely on only one Holy Book although I believe in the Bible. Does anyone understand what I mean????
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: nefertari on January 22, 2012, 06:38:28 AM

Oh my God ... I want to cry TS !!!!!!!! your post tell me that I understood nothing!  Does God really  thinks that the blood of martyrs shed on the ground is wasted than literally sprinkled on various objects or people? If the death of a martyr hits the hearts of people then he is not died in vain (wherever his blood fell). And if the death of Christ has symbolically anointed the hearts of believers, which is the need to literally anoint the Ark?

Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: SimPattyK on January 22, 2012, 06:39:35 AM
[...]
I already know I'm going to work like a dog until the day I die. No retirement package will ever be mine. I already know I'll likely die sick and poor. Can't afford health insurance so that means no health care either. I can forget about those sunny beach vacations so many people seem to get. Never in the budget. The system has me by the proverbial balls, there is no escape, KAPISHE?

I don't think it behooves me to spend the little free time that I get focused on the end of the world nor on the Illuminati. I'm aware we are in peril. I'm aware the system sucks, oh TRUST me I'm aware. I need to spend my personal time on positive pursuits, some escape from that doom n gloom that is the world we all live in.
I need to focus on being alive for the time that I have, and pursuing happiness.
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=22007.msg386231#msg386231

@BetheChange: yeaah!! Prince is helping Michael with the hoax! (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=20334.msg352585#msg352585)  I have no doubt about that!

SimPattyK, I don't know but it doesn't seem like all of those 24's were a coincidence.  There's a lot of them !!!
yesss! The more they are, the less coincidental they are and the more truth they reveal! ;)

[...]
SimPattyK: Thanks for the info on the #24!! I love that pic with Elvis wearing the calendar! When I was in high school, I was a part of the mariachi group and all of the gold metal decorations on our uniforms were Mayan calendars just like the one Elvis is wearing. *sigh* I miss playing in the group. lol
[...]
Thank you WhiteNight. I've written more about "coincidental" numbers ans dates, especially the no. 7, 8, 9, 18., 24, 26 here on this topic: http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=20301.0

For WhiteNight - quote from this topic: Number 11 ... strange  (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=20319.msg352392#msg352392)

[...]
What about the Sundial design that he wore on his last stage-suit, during his last concert tour back in 1977! it's the Mayan Calendar reference!!
Did he also know about 2012? [I don't know about you, but I am sure he DID!!]

(http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/8445/mexican20sundial20149.jpg)(http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/2718/07mvgelvispresley.jpg)

The final curtain !? Meaning ... THE END ? of what? The end of 2012 - The End of the World? ;)
And Michael's famous O2 speech "The final curtain call" -  what call? A final WAKE UP CALL !!!
(http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/9232/63635149966393570513573.jpg)(http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/392/21814019149996711771127.jpg)

(http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/5323/image13ca.jpg)


About the EOW.... Quote from this topic: New Jesus - mark my words (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=18805.175)

[...]
[...]
Also, I heard him say in the video that the age of aquarius is called the age of water.  The symbol is a man carrying a jug of water.  It reminds me of the This Is it movie when Michael says "Water", "Water".  Some people were wondering about it.  I think it may have to do with the coming of the age of aquarius.  He seems to be the messenger for this coming age.  Also, there is a song by him called "water" but I haven't listened to it.

Also, the constellation of Orion and the star Sirius has come up a lot during this hoax experience.  I don't know why.  Sirius is the bright star Jesus and others were born under on December 25.  It seems important.
Sirius an ORION [Elvis]....

Regarding what the video said and your comments on the Aquarian age and Michael's repeating "water...water..." in "This Is It", I thought it may interest you to see these 2 pages from a book that Elvis was reading...with his marks/annotations on it... I'm not very sure but I think it's "The Prophet"...

(http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/923/26179220562670187951608.jpg)

(http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/7985/26884820562696988621608.jpg)


Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Grace on January 22, 2012, 06:52:35 AM
No group nor doctrine nor religion will make it up to one global impact (and wasn't it this strive we were warned about?) and it's good this way. Same applies to countries, people and individuals. There's more than the obvious.
The planet has seen much fire and ice. Thousands were put on piles because rats were the cause.
Christians of whatever colour are not above any other group of believers even if they may see themselves like that - other religious groups do the same btw and the earth has seen much bloodshed originating from this arrogance. "I am a member of" does not mean anything except an allurement of illusion.
I am willing - eyes wide open - to fall off the earth disk while thinking too much for myself.
I have chosen to make the place in my proximity a better world and am pursuing this goal, no matter what - it's a lot of fun and pleasure aside from a back full of work btw. I am starting with the one in the mirror.
Life is deadly every second and death is not terrible but embracing and beautiful. One has to die daily to live - and does so.
I am beyond any fear since decades. My faith in good and in God will never shatter.
There are more storms and turmoils ahead. Defiance will hinder. Perseverance - at least trying - will end in a positive result. The ark? I am having my very personal conversations on this contract every day and I know who is keeping promises. I don't need the ark discussion except for broadening my horizons whenever I like to.
Special thanks and much respect to Mr. Nelson.
This journey is a never ending study.

Blessings and courage to all. We will get there.
Don't get lost. L.O.V.E. is the answer.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on January 22, 2012, 07:57:00 AM
We can not know the world will end or not. Maybe it will, maybe not.

I agree


the world will end. the term world does not refer to earth such as what you see in the movie 2012
it will not be like this


(http://listphobia.com/wp-content/uploads/photo_2894376_38346_6935183_ap_730x550.jpg)

or this

(http://gamestrailer.info/2012-1222172.jpg)

or this

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-QvJKP-pvmlI/TdfakgH_slI/AAAAAAAAAe0/81TeDIyYQL4/s1600/end-of-the-world.jpg)

the reason i say this is because the bible says that Ecc 1:4 says, One generation passes away, and another generation comes: but the earth stays for ever. american king james version

the end of the world as foretold in the bible, is not the literal earth or world. the world refers to the system. merchants (evil large corporations) religion and politics - as per various readings in the book of revelation. see the revelation thread for more info on the other forum.

this same world is the one jesus spoke of in john 17:14-16 14 "I have given your word to them, but the 'world' has hated them, because they are no part of the 'world', just as I am no part of the 'world'. I request you, not to take them out of the 'world', but to watch over them because of the wicked one. They are no part of the 'world', just as I am no part of the 'world'.

the world spoken of here is the wicked system not the earth. this is the 'world' that is spoken of in terms of EOW. i personally am not judging, but just relaying that the bible indicates that EOW is a good thing for god fearing christians who are no part of this world, and it is not something to be feared.

the bible indicates that EOW is when this evil system (or 'the world') loses its power and is aboloished and then replaced with gods righteous rule. the same government you pray for in the lords prayer (gods will)

As Paul said:

1 Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, you need nothing to be written to you.
2 For you yourselves know quite well that the Lord's day is coming exactly as a thief in the night.
3 Whenever it is that they are saying: Peace and security! then sudden destruction is to be instantly upon them just as the pang of distress upon a pregnant woman; and they will by no means escape.
4 But you, brothers, you are not in darkness, so that that day should come upon you as it would thieves (who operate under a cloak of darkness),

gods day comes as a thief in the night to those in the darkness. But to those in the light it does not come as a thief in the night, it comes in the day, so they can see it coming. It does not come upon them as the day comes upon thieves, because they do not operate under the cover of darkness, they have nothing to hide. So those who walk in the light plainly see this day coming.

therefore we can see that EOW is a joyous event that will change the way this world works - for the better!

now regarding 2012 and EOW.... well who knows. not even jesus. only god. as per matthew 24:36 Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.

also Mark 13:33 says Keep looking, keep awake, for you do not know when the appointed time is.

including jesus, no creation had yet been granted a knowledge of the day or the hour. therefore NO ONE should be pointing to 2012 as the time of the end as we simply don't know when it will happen. but be assured, it will happen when no one expects it to. when people are getting on with their lives and oblivious.

at armageddon god does quite a few very important things and the timing of these things is a confidential matter of his.

let us rejoice and be overjoyed and let us give him the glory because the marriage of the lamb has arrived and his wife has prepared herself.... 

happy are those invited to the evening meal of the lambs marriage (Revelation 19).

members of the new covenant are these happy ones, the evening meal of the lamb's marriage is the coronation of the kings in the kingdom of God, on the last day of this system. so again, EOW not something to be feared.

another interesting thing to consider is when paul said:  Whenever it is that they are saying: Peace and security! then sudden destruction is to be instantly upon them

this denotes that the world will not be expecting it because they are in a peaceful state. people looking out for the date wont expect it. it will happen at a time when things look stable. peaceful. secure. and government will even go to lengths to say "look what we have achieved. global peace... look 'peace and security' has been achieved"

once this call for peace is made, the rest will follow...

The prophecy below will finally take place in its major fulfillment. When you read "king" and "kingdom" below, in your head substitute the modern word "government" in it's place:
 
And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite. . . (Daniel 2:44)
 
This is when true peace and security will be on earth. All man made governments including the USA, Germany, Italy, Israel, etc... will all be destroyed by God's kingdom, and then god's government will be sole ruler over the earth.
 
Think of Jesus' model prayer in relation to the above:
 
Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified. 10 Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth. (Matthew 6:9)
 
Yes God's name will be sanctified, held on high... by means of his Son Jesus
 
Jesus told us to pray for god's will to be done on earth, that is our home, and where we will live forever in paradise, with no more hunger, strife, crime, sickness or death! Just like the garden of eden would have been. as per revelation 21:4 "He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.” English standard version.


@ NON bible readers / NON god believers. please dont take offnce at this post. i know and respect you dont believe. i do respect all the non god believers very much, i can assure you of that. i am only relaying what is in the bible but understand that not all necessarily believe which is completely ones right and perogative. i am simply posting this for the GOD believers / bible readers who are coming across in this thread as 'fearful,' in an attempt to show them some supporting scriptures around EOW.


@ ANNA - you do realise that everything that has been posted are things that are written in the bible. not being rude, being genuine. the authorities are going to be puzzled at why you are making a complaint about religious informaiton being posted on a religious forum - and will more than likely say "please take it up with the big man" because the things that are being posted here are inspired by (though sometimes misinterpreted) what is writen for all to see in the bible.


@ THOSE CONCERNED WHERE THIS IS HEADING - view it as simple enlightenment and a drawing of attention to what the bible has already prohecied. its all there. its nothing new. its simply drawing attention to things that many dont pay attention to because we are busy with life, yet are very important for those who want to be identified as true christians and achieve salvation...

now unless TS is plainly outlining forming a cult and gets into talks of accention via mass suiside, el' heavens gate (religo cult) or jonestown massacre style, then there really isnt anything to worry about. worry more about what we are doing daily to be on the right side on gods day

(that last bit was for the god believers ;) )
   



Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on January 22, 2012, 08:05:28 AM
oh, and @ curls. brilliant post!
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: sandythyme on January 22, 2012, 09:15:04 AM
I have to admit when I read the latest post from TS I was freaked out!  I read bits of it, thought about it, read more.  Read Souza's post....Souza you amaze me it the greatest way!  Now I read Curls post yet another excellent post.  So many of you have such deep, beautiful thoughts.  Some are confused and concerned.  I feel that, now mind you I am not very good at any of this, I don't post much but I will say all of you have taught me so much, not just Michael but ALL OF YOU...we know this has always been said in the Bible about the end of the world, I guess for some of us who don't read the Bible it's frightening.  For those who read the Bible it's understood or should I say have an awareness.  Michael reads the Bible everyday, ok then I see why this is really important to him and the hoax.  I didn't last night as I was freaked out.  We are looking at every angle almost as if we are looking at these angles through Michael's eyes.  So I do see the importance of this.  Curls great post!  This doesn't make this wrong or right, this makes us think for ourselves, follow what we feel in our hearts and go forth.   I will say that the Bible has become interesting to me in the last 2.5 years, I remember one of TS' redirects and this always stayed with me and now I understand why..so here we go my  first quote ever from the Bible.  It was in Revelation 21:1 Then I saw a new earth; for the first heaven and earth had passed away, and no longer was there any sea. This scared me but also gave me hope in a strange way.  So what this boils down to for me, read, study and to think for myself whether it's right or wrong it's up to me to decide, be comfortable and understand what's being said and what's going on inside of me and to have faith in me and what I feel.  Thank you to all of you for helping me see so much.  You are all so important to me, this whole experience is a class room full of knowledge.  I could go the school forever and never learn as much as I have learned here.  Take care and LOVE TO ALL OF YOU
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: fordtocarr on January 22, 2012, 09:53:36 AM
I'll be honest here, my problem with all things God-related has been, for many, many years, that I cannot get over the feeling that it is arrogant of us, of Mankind, to think we know and can explain, it all. What makes us so special? This arrogance has brought the world to the state it's in now. A little humility in mankind in general, and stepping back from situations, reassessing, rather than always forging on, having to prove we can and we're right, would not go amiss.

IMO, If God didn't exist then we'd have invented him anyhow, as a carrot .... or a stick. Those in the 'carrot' category, frequently use him as a prop/support/guide through life's difficulties. I can think of no-one more likely to need/grasp this type of help than Michael Jackson with his stress filled life.

So here's a revolutionary thought - hey, Michael Jackson may not be right!
WOW, that's a great statement.  We know that Michael is very intelligent, and we know that he studied the Bible from youth.  But, although I'd like to believe he always did and still does carry the truths of the witnesses, that don't mean he does.  And there have been witnesses who predicted the end and proclaimed it.  Just in many other religions.  So, yes, Michael could honestly be believing he's teaching us something to save us in the end that he thinks is upon us.  Don't make him right.  As we know the bible says no man will know...  also, just because you honestly believe something is correct still does not make it correct.  Like this entire hoax could be...either way..for us..or the unbelievers.   Same goes with TS, and that is what I guard my spiritual soul with, is that TS doctrines or the road he sends us to is not interpreted the way I've studied to believe.  That is also why I'm so grateful that my Aussie friend here can present what we, her and I and a few others here, and hopefully Michael, believe.

  He might believe with all his being in God and prophesies regarding the end of the world etc, he may be doing everything in his power to alert the rest of mankind, and that might make him just about the most loving man to have ever lived, but that still doesn't necessarily make him right, any more than me being sceptical makes me right. I'm not being disrespectful here, I'm just thinking he's not 'god', he doesn't know it all, and he is just finding his way through life the best (albeit, incredible) way he can, like the rest of us!

I get the impression some think we have been tricked into 'religion' by reeling us in with MJ first, only to come in now with heavy God talk. I have always felt this was where the hoax was heading but TS has never 'tricked' anyone - he has always said to think for ourselves and not believe what he says just because he says it.

So this latest redirect should not cause panic and mass departures. If these are MJ's views via The Sign or TS or whoever, so be it, and if MJ has nothing to do with it, then TS has proved that many of us never did get the hang of 'thinking for ourselves'. Everyone is free to read or not, to research further or not, to agree or not.

And if the truth, which never seems to have prevailed so far in history, is about to be shown, and I am found on the wrong side, then that is meant to be, as I would not be the right material for the 'new world'.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: fordtocarr on January 22, 2012, 10:09:05 AM
@ THOSE CONCERNED WHERE THIS IS HEADING - view it as simple enlightenment and a drawing of attention to what the bible has already prohecied. its all there. its nothing new. its simply drawing attention to things that many dont pay attention to because we are busy with life, yet are very important for those who want to be identified as true christians and achieve salvation...

now unless TS is plainly outlining forming a cult and gets into talks of accention via mass suiside, el' heavens gate (religo cult) or jonestown massacre style, then there really isnt anything to worry about. worry more about what we are doing daily to be on the right side on gods day

(that last bit was for the god believers ;) )
   
[/size]

Thank you Aussie!!  That makes sense to me!  I will try to remember this and maybe I can feel like I fit in better :)



[/quote]
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: ~Souza~ on January 22, 2012, 10:21:34 AM
Like Back said (paraphrasing here): "Prophets have walked the earth and continue to walk amongst us." I really believe that.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: PureLove on January 22, 2012, 10:25:35 AM
I don't know if you need to be religious and believe in God to see the world is about to end. No matter if you deny to see it or accept it, there is an evil side who is trying to fasten the process. You don't want to call them NWO or illuminati, fine. You don't need to believe the Blue beam Project or HAARP. But no one can deny the fact that the earth is not getting any better. All of the rising so called "natural" disasters, hunger, poverty and so on ... It is so obvious that there's something that is not going in order, there's something definitely wrong. If you want to close your eyes to it, that means you are one of the people who is going to allow the world to end. Conversely, the humanity should come together right now. We are the ones who are going to save this planet, our future and humanity. Noone else is going to come and help us to fix this.

TS wrote perfectly about this.


Quote
The end is near; whether you believe it or not, whether you like it or not. If you were living in the path of an approaching hurricane, disbelief would not stop the hurricane from arriving. You could say that you don’t believe the news, or you don’t believe in hurricanes at all, or you don’t want the hurricane to hit, or whatever you say or do—the hurricane would still hit. The only thing that you could do, is be aware and prepare.

Fortunately, if someone starts to oppose this truth now, there is still a little time left to get back on the right side, before it’s too late. However, opposition usually works like a very powerful inertia; once someone starts opposing something, it is very difficult to change directions later. So be extremely careful before you decide to oppose this message, or saying anything that would prejudice others against it.

If you take the side of the true ark, then you are on Michael’s side of the Armageddon battle; if you chose to go against the true ark—or even if you take a position of neutral indifference—then you are on Lucifer’s side of Armageddon (see Matthew 12:30; Luke 11:23). Nobody will be drafted to fight for the truth, it’s a volunteer army; but those who don’t voluntarily enlist on the side of truth, will be on the other side of the battle, whether they intend to or not. There will be only two sides. “If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.”

About the religious aspect of this hoax, it is not hard for me to get it. We know that Michael reads Bible every day and we know how he is trying to save this planet and humanity. So, do you really think that he would be ignoring the 2012 theory/fact? According to some it is just a theory and according to some it is a fact. And for a person who reads Bible everyday, it must be so hard and heart breaking to see the signs of apocalypse are coming true one by one. It's like the satan is breaking the seals one by one to bring the doomsday. I can not think no one else but Michael who would care this much and insist to open humanity's eyes to the truth. So to think that this religious side of the hoax has nothing to do with Michael, is just because you want to ignore and not accept the end is coming and Michael is there to warn us about it. And it is pretty naive imo. We all heard what Michael said in TII. "We have 4 years to get it right." If he was not talking about 2012, then what was he talking about?

It is not the time to ignore or deny it my friends. It is time to get it right and start doing something about it! Otherwise it is going to be so so late for all of us. Michael is leading us the way. Listen what he says, and follow him. God is going to be on our side. God bless Michael and all of us.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: bindupbrokenhearted on January 22, 2012, 11:20:50 AM
We can not know the world will end or not. Maybe it will, maybe not.

I agree


the world will end. the term world does not refer to earth such as what you see in the movie 2012
it will not be like this


(http://listphobia.com/wp-content/uploads/photo_2894376_38346_6935183_ap_730x550.jpg)

or this

(http://gamestrailer.info/2012-1222172.jpg)

or this

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-QvJKP-pvmlI/TdfakgH_slI/AAAAAAAAAe0/81TeDIyYQL4/s1600/end-of-the-world.jpg)
 

Hey Aussie, I have some questions if you don't mind.  I am just trying to understand your post/perspective and maybe I would like to offer another perspective compared to the perspective you posted (if that's okay).  I am NOT trying to change your beliefs or anything.  Just 1. trying to understand what you believe and 2. offering other perspectives without trying to force what I believe on anyone, as that is their right at the end of the day.  If you want, you can answer via PM if you don't feel comfortable answering on the thread. 

The Bible says that the elements WILL pass away, which includes the Earth:

Quote
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
  KJV  http://bible.cc/2_peter/3-10.htm

Also, Revelation says there will be a new heaven and new Earth:

Rev 21:1

Quote
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
http://bible.cc/revelation/21-1.htm

So do you not believe that there will not be a new heaven and new earth after the old has passed away?

How do you view Rev 21:1 then?





Quote
the reason i say this is because the bible says that Ecc 1:4 says, One generation passes away, and another generation comes: but the earth stays for ever. american king james version

Another viewpoint for this verse can be the following.  I studied what this word 'forever' was in Hebrew and found this.  It is the Hebrew word olam (translated 'forever') the way I am studying it:

Quote
The Hebrew word olam basically means “age-lasting.” It is employed to describe the duration of the Passover, and the Levitical priesthood (Exodus 12:14; Numbers 25:13), both of which lasted only as long as the Mosaic economy. These references should be entered in the margin of your Bible in connection with Ecclesiastes 1:4 and Psalm 78:69.
  http://www.christiancourier.com/articles/867-ecclesiastes-1-4-earth-abides-forever

I do believe that the present heaven and earth will pass away like that passage in Rev and 2 Peter say it will.  Ecclesiastes has always been told regarding mankind's perspective and vanity that things will keep continuing as they are and not God's point of view IMHO. 

Quote
the end of the world as foretold in the bible, is not the literal earth or world. the world refers to the system. merchants (evil large corporations) religion and politics - as per various readings in the book of revelation. see the revelation thread for more info on the other forum. 

I agree.  Babylon will fall (Revelation 18 2) http://bible.cc/revelation/18-2.htm  and there will be peace in the new Millenium http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+20%3A2-7&version=KJV

Quote
Revelation 20:2-7

King James Version (KJV)

 2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

 3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

 4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

 5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

 6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


Quote
this same world is the one jesus spoke of in john 17:14-16 14 "I have given your word to them, but the 'world' has hated them, because they are no part of the 'world', just as I am no part of the 'world'. I request you, not to take them out of the 'world', but to watch over them because of the wicked one. They are no part of the 'world', just as I am no part of the 'world'.

the world spoken of here is the wicked system not the earth. this is the 'world' that is spoken of in terms of EOW. i personally am not judging, but just relaying that the bible indicates that EOW is a good thing for god fearing christians who are no part of this world, and it is not something to be feared.

the bible indicates that EOW is when this evil system (or 'the world') loses its power and is aboloished and then replaced with gods righteous rule. the same government you pray for in the lords prayer (gods will)

I agree.  The world is wicked: we are not to love it.

Quote
As Paul said:

1 Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, you need nothing to be written to you.
2 For you yourselves know quite well that the Lord's day is coming exactly as a thief in the night.
3 Whenever it is that they are saying: Peace and security! then sudden destruction is to be instantly upon them just as the pang of distress upon a pregnant woman; and they will by no means escape.
4 But you, brothers, you are not in darkness, so that that day should come upon you as it would thieves (who operate under a cloak of darkness),

gods day comes as a thief in the night to those in the darkness. But to those in the light it does not come as a thief in the night, it comes in the day, so they can see it coming. It does not come upon them as the day comes upon thieves, because they do not operate under the cover of darkness, they have nothing to hide. So those who walk in the light plainly see this day coming.

This is 1 Thess 4? 

Many Christians including myself believe this passage to be speaking of the Rapture.  Many Christians don't believe the Rapture, so since it is so controversial, I will not explain much.  There are many views, and if interested PM me or google it.  Or we can discuss on other religious forum.

Quote
therefore we can see that EOW is a joyous event that will change the way this world works - for the better!

now regarding 2012 and EOW.... well who knows. not even jesus. only god. as per matthew 24:36 Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.

also Mark 13:33 says Keep looking, keep awake, for you do not know when the appointed time is.

including jesus, no creation had yet been granted a knowledge of the day or the hour. therefore NO ONE should be pointing to 2012 as the time of the end as we simply don't know when it will happen. but be assured, it will happen when no one expects it to. when people are getting on with their lives and oblivious.

at armageddon god does quite a few very important things and the timing of these things is a confidential matter of his.

let us rejoice and be overjoyed and let us give him the glory because the marriage of the lamb has arrived and his wife has prepared herself.... 

happy are those invited to the evening meal of the lambs marriage (Revelation 19).

members of the new covenant are these happy ones, the evening meal of the lamb's marriage is the coronation of the kings in the kingdom of God, on the last day of this system. so again, EOW not something to be feared.

another interesting thing to consider is when paul said:  Whenever it is that they are saying: Peace and security! then sudden destruction is to be instantly upon them

this denotes that the world will not be expecting it because they are in a peaceful state. people looking out for the date wont expect it. it will happen at a time when things look stable. peaceful. secure. and government will even go to lengths to say "look what we have achieved. global peace... look 'peace and security' has been achieved"

once this call for peace is made, the rest will follow...

The prophecy below will finally take place in its major fulfillment. When you read "king" and "kingdom" below, in your head substitute the modern word "government" in it's place:
 
And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite. . . (Daniel 2:44)
 
This is when true peace and security will be on earth. All man made governments including the USA, Germany, Italy, Israel, etc... will all be destroyed by God's kingdom, and then god's government will be sole ruler over the earth.
 
Think of Jesus' model prayer in relation to the above:
 
Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified. 10 Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth. (Matthew 6:9)
 
Yes God's name will be sanctified, held on high... by means of his Son Jesus
 
Jesus told us to pray for god's will to be done on earth, that is our home, and where we will live forever in paradise, with no more hunger, strife, crime, sickness or death! Just like the garden of eden would have been. as per revelation 21:4 "He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.” English standard version. 

I think we agree :)  See, we agree on a lot!   ::P


Quote
@ NON bible readers / NON god believers. please dont take offnce at this post. i know and respect you dont believe. i do respect all the non god believers very much, i can assure you of that. i am only relaying what is in the bible but understand that not all necessarily believe which is completely ones right and perogative. i am simply posting this for the GOD believers / bible readers who are coming across in this thread as 'fearful,' in an attempt to show them some supporting scriptures around EOW.


@ ANNA - you do realise that everything that has been posted are things that are written in the bible. not being rude, being genuine. the authorities are going to be puzzled at why you are making a complaint about religious informaiton being posted on a religious forum - and will more than likely say "please take it up with the big man" because the things that are being posted here are inspired by (though sometimes misinterpreted) what is writen for all to see in the bible.


@ THOSE CONCERNED WHERE THIS IS HEADING - view it as simple enlightenment and a drawing of attention to what the bible has already prohecied. its all there. its nothing new. its simply drawing attention to things that many dont pay attention to because we are busy with life, yet are very important for those who want to be identified as true christians and achieve salvation...

now unless TS is plainly outlining forming a cult and gets into talks of accention via mass suiside, el' heavens gate (religo cult) or jonestown massacre style, then there really isnt anything to worry about. worry more about what we are doing daily to be on the right side on gods day

(that last bit was for the god believers ;) )
   
[/size]




 bearhug

And if you want we can further this discussion on the other board or via PM, as I would rather discuss religious topics on the other forum.

With love and peace.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: paula-c on January 22, 2012, 11:24:29 AM
I have a lot to read,.. 8) thank God my life is already returning to normal, the last two months were a lot of work.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: paula-c on January 22, 2012, 11:27:11 AM

This picture is horrible, God protect us all



(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-QvJKP-pvmlI/TdfakgH_slI/AAAAAAAAAe0/81TeDIyYQL4/s1600/end-of-the-world.jpg)
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: MissG on January 22, 2012, 11:43:08 AM
Souza, I appreciate your post. However, faith of any sort introduced by a condition is not a faith I consider safe.

The way TS has been operating has all the undertones of how a cult works. To be the cult of Michael Jackson can even be taken as fan but to warn people forcing them to decide either this or that with a leading consequence is plain wrong.

Point 21
http://www.michaelsarmyoflove.com/forum/index.php?topic=56.msg118#msg118

"Fortunately, if someone starts to oppose this truth now, there is still a little time left to get back on the right side, before it’s too late. However, opposition usually works like a very powerful inertia; once someone starts opposing something, it is very difficult to change directions later. So be extremely careful before you decide to oppose this message, or saying anything that would prejudice others against it."

"If you take the side of the true ark, then you are on Michael’s side of the Armageddon battle; if you chose to go against the true ark—or even if you take a position of neutral indifference—then you are on Lucifer’s side of Armageddon (see Matthew 12:30; Luke 11:23). Nobody will be drafted to fight for the truth, it’s a volunteer army; but those who don’t voluntarily enlist on the side of truth, will be on the other side of the battle, whether they intend to or not. There will be only two sides. “If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.”

"faith that will conquer Lucifer and all who take sides with him"



To me, and many who think alike, the only "evil" walking on earth is humans, mentally disturbed in most of the cases with deep religion and faithful conditions (and the tax man).

Whoever want to study the bible, fine, but those so called prophecies are always and only performed by men, not by any natural godly force, just men and in many cases are a cause of "faithful" groups going around spreading viruses in the air or whatever and claiming that it was GODs will. God will ma´ass. MEN with an agenda. to make their holly book right.

TS!
(http://www.thedawgpound.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/eyes_on_you_smiley.gif)
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Andrea on January 22, 2012, 11:50:01 AM
I don't know if you need to be religious and believe in God to see the world is about to end. No matter if you deny to see it or accept it, there is an evil side who is trying to fasten the process. You don't want to call them NWO or illuminati, fine. You don't need to believe the Blue beam Project or HAARP. But no one can deny the fact that the earth is not getting any better. All of the rising so called "natural" disasters, hunger, poverty and so on ... It is so obvious that there's something that is not going in order, there's something definitely wrong. If you want to close your eyes to it, that means you are one of the people who is going to allow the world to end. Conversely, the humanity should come together right now. We are the ones who are going to save this planet, our future and humanity. Noone else is going to come and help us to fix this.

TS wrote perfectly about this.


Quote
The end is near; whether you believe it or not, whether you like it or not. If you were living in the path of an approaching hurricane, disbelief would not stop the hurricane from arriving. You could say that you don’t believe the news, or you don’t believe in hurricanes at all, or you don’t want the hurricane to hit, or whatever you say or do—the hurricane would still hit. The only thing that you could do, is be aware and prepare.

Fortunately, if someone starts to oppose this truth now, there is still a little time left to get back on the right side, before it’s too late. However, opposition usually works like a very powerful inertia; once someone starts opposing something, it is very difficult to change directions later. So be extremely careful before you decide to oppose this message, or saying anything that would prejudice others against it.

If you take the side of the true ark, then you are on Michael’s side of the Armageddon battle; if you chose to go against the true ark—or even if you take a position of neutral indifference—then you are on Lucifer’s side of Armageddon (see Matthew 12:30; Luke 11:23). Nobody will be drafted to fight for the truth, it’s a volunteer army; but those who don’t voluntarily enlist on the side of truth, will be on the other side of the battle, whether they intend to or not. There will be only two sides. “If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.”

About the religious aspect of this hoax, it is not hard for me to get it. We know that Michael reads Bible every day and we know how he is trying to save this planet and humanity. So, do you really think that he would be ignoring the 2012 theory/fact? According to some it is just a theory and according to some it is a fact. And for a person who reads Bible everyday, it must be so hard and heart breaking to see the signs of apocalypse are coming true one by one. It's like the satan is breaking the seals one by one to bring the doomsday. I can not think no one else but Michael who would care this much and insist to open humanity's eyes to the truth. So to think that this religious side of the hoax has nothing to do with Michael, is just because you want to ignore and not accept the end is coming and Michael is there to warn us about it. And it is pretty naive imo. We all heard what Michael said in TII. "We have 4 years to get it right." If he was not talking about 2012, then what was he talking about?

It is not the time to ignore or deny it my friends. It is time to get it right and start doing something about it! Otherwise it is going to be so so late for all of us. Michael is leading us the way. Listen what he says, and follow him. God is going to be on our side. God bless Michael and all of us.


I agree with a lot of what you've said here PureLove. I, for one, cannot ignore what I see happening in the world around us and I refuse to bury my head in the sand.  It's possible that I over-analyze events sometimes but when the dominoes keep falling, it's hard to ignore.  I believe in God, I have ever since I was a child and my family only went to church for a couple of years and for me, that was Sunday school in the basement of the church while the grown-ups were upstairs hearing the sermons.  I was very young so I was not overly influenced from what little I can remember but believing in God is something that has always been natural to me.  I know a lot of atheists that have had near-death experiences (I'm a civilian in a military work environment) and a few of them have admitted to me that in those moments, they have prayed to God.  I think that deep down a lot of people believe, or know instinctively, that God exists.  I know this doesn't apply to everybody as everyone is an individual with their own belief systems.  So whoever reads TS's post, take from it what you will, but don't dismiss it out of hand.  Even Front said, and I'm paraphrasing here - if you have faith in nothing else, have faith in Michael.  And we're all here because we believe, or know, that Michael is alive.  He's not going to drive us off a cliff.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: MissG on January 22, 2012, 11:59:10 AM
@Andrea
" I know a lot of atheists that have had near-death experiences (I'm a civilian in a military work environment) and a few of them have admitted to me that in those moments, they have prayed to God.  I think that deep down a lot of people believe, or know instinctively, that God exists. 2

Those are chemical reactions of our brain. Like a short circuit, that´s why the lights etc.

Also, when we are in "vigilia" (can´t find the word in english) we suffer what we believe are godly experiences, is called hypnagogia, allucinations and sensorial disturbances.

When "death" come our way, we get a new approach to life, that´s way we tend to change for the better when it happens.

The God they prayed to was may be their own wish to survive by chance.

 
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: bindupbrokenhearted on January 22, 2012, 12:00:32 PM
The more information I pull up on RW, the more I am starting to believe he was a fake/fraudster and was interested in $$$$. 

Okay, here are some sites with a few selected quotes

First, the supposed background of Mr. Wyatt:

Quote
One of the articles about Ron Wyatt which was faxed to me came from Christian Information Ministries International, whose editor is Bill Crouse. He did some investigation of Ron Wyatt and his organization and discovered some of Wyatt's information about himself in a brochure his Christian booking agency produced for him was untruthful. Bill Crouse spoke with Jeff Roberts and Associates, about the false information in the brochure they used in booking Wyatt into churches. (Yes, many Christian celebrities use booking agencies to get speaking engagements in churches) Quoting from the Ararat Report of May-June 1988 from Christian Information Ministries, it says, "It lists Ron as graduating from the University of Michigan with honors in Pre-med and as having finished all the requirements for both M.A. and Ph.D. in antiquities. It also lists him as being a Korean war veteran." Christian Information Ministries when checking this out found none of the above to be true. According to Bill Crouse, when Ron Wyatt's booking agency Jeff Roberts and Associates, located in Hendersonville, Tennessee, was questioned about the discrepancies in the brochure, they admitted the brochure needed to be re-written, but they did not know who was to blame for the inaccuracies.

http://www.tentmaker.org/Dew/Dew7/D7-AGreatChristianScam.html

More evidence of fraud:

Quote
This last visit to Israel by Mrs. Mary Nell Wyatt and her new husband was supposed to uncover the cave that contained the Ark of the Covenant that was covered with the very blood of Jesus Christ. They got permission from the Israeli Antiquities Department to do some excavating near Zedekiah’s cave which is where Ron Wyatt said the entrance to the tunnel to the Ark of the Covenant was years ago. You, reader, might wonder, if Wyatt Archaeological Research is a bogus operation, why would the Israeli Antiquities Department grant Mrs. Mary Nell Wyatt and company a license to dig? That’s a good question. I asked my source in Israel who used to be a curator at the Israeli Department of Antiquities. He said “MONEY!”
http://www.tentmaker.org/WAR/love_money_wyatt.html

Regarding those who excavated with RW and what they had to say:

Quote
Our team proceeded to the Garden Tomb, whose custodians were expecting our arrival. Wyatt had negotiated cordially and successfully with them. With an assortment of gardening tools we set to work, moving a large pile of rubble and rock which had accumulated where Wyatt had probed earlier.  Over several days we were able to excavate our way down into the same cave system that Wyatt had explored two years before. I'm sorry to report that in the end we came up empty-handed. The connecting channel through which Wyatt had claimed to see the furniture was not there. On the final day of excavation, when we could not see the internal cavern landmarks that Wyatt had predicted, Ron himself finally climbed down into the dim space. After a long time he emerged, looking confused. As we waited respectfully to hear his report, he mumbled a few words like: "It's not the same; it's changed. It's not the way I remember it." There was no opening to be seen, giving a view into an adjacent cavern. There was nothing. In the process of our digging we had come up with a few interesting little objects from Roman times, but they were irrelevant to our main goal.
  http://www.ldolphin.org/wyatt1.html


Regarding how some 'evidence' that Ron Wyatt found:

Quote
One of the individuals who I interviewed, who lost approximately 30,000 thousand dollars to Ron Wyatt, went to Israel with him, supposedly to see some of these sights and record them on film. An assignment editor of a major television station in Nasheville went with them. Not only did this individual not see any of these incredible discoveries, but his wife was told by one of Ron Wyatt's sons that the chariot wheels that Ron supposedly discovered in the Gulf of Aqaba were planted there by Ron. Mr. Wyatt gave this couple some coins which he supposedly found at the Ark of the Covenant site. Again, one of Wyatt's sons informed the wife that Wyatt bought those coins. Gentle, soft-spoken Ron verbally abused an Arab car rental agent when the agent told Mr. Wyatt that his son was to young to drive the vehicle.

http://www.tentmaker.org/Dew/Dew7/D7-AGreatChristianScam.html


Regarding maybe some motives from RW:

Quote
Perhaps more incredible to me than the fact this con could go on as long as it has, is the response of many Christian leaders to this perpetration. I think the most honest response I got in this whole investigation came from a non-believer from a television studio. He said, "I became involved for the money." Thank you, non-Christian for a little honesty.

http://www.tentmaker.org/Dew/Dew7/D7-AGreatChristianScam.html

Anyone familiar with Answers in Genesis (I don't always like what they say/print and I am not going into that here): but even they don't believe RW's discoveries: http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/cm/v14/n4/special-report-amazing-ark-expose

More sites:
http://www.tentmaker.org/WAR/BaumgardnerLetter.html
http://www.tentmaker.org/WAR/index.html

There are more where that comes from.


Either he is a fraud or has been severely character assassinated, even by mainstream Christian Creationists, who would gladly have evidence that the Creation story is true.  So, the reader is left to decide for his or herself what is true and what is tabloid trash.

As far as me, I don't deny that I believe in the literal Biblical creation, JMO.  And, I would love to have discoveries like these come to the limelight.  But...it has to be good evidence, not fake, fraud, or only interested in one thing  $$$

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePzxmfXvWOw

Also, WND is known around the Christian circles as a tabloid-like newspaper for Christians.  I may write more on this later.

Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Andrea on January 22, 2012, 12:04:52 PM
MissG - I can definitely understand what you're saying as an atheist, explaining it scientifically.

As I believe that we (and the entire universe) are created with an intelligent design, by an intelligent designer, those reactions make sense, to believe in something that is innate in everyone.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: MissG on January 22, 2012, 12:07:26 PM
I said as well that Mr. Wyatt had an agenda to prove.

Andrea, I respect what you believe.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Andrea on January 22, 2012, 12:12:36 PM
MissG - I respect your beliefs as well.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: bindupbrokenhearted on January 22, 2012, 12:13:08 PM
I said as well that Mr. Wyatt had an agenda to prove.

Andrea, I respect what you believe.

Right, MissG, now I am wondering why TS would make this post?

You know, this post differs from his usual posts.  Especially regarding 1. evidence (good evidence versus bad): his other posts always had good evidence to support views; 2. looking at all possibilities (it seems like this post only looked at one side and took that side as Gospel truth); and 3. making some strange conclusions and using for a source what most Christians believe as tabloid (WND): I will probably write more on this later. 

Anyways, something to ponder.  I still wonder if TS isn't testing us to see if we will go against him or not since there have been complaints that some blindly follow him and maybe this is to prove a point: that we CAN do our own investigation.  At the same time, we can investigate the real ark versus fake ones...

Just a thought.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: bec on January 22, 2012, 12:34:58 PM
You know, this post differs from his usual posts.  Especially regarding 1. evidence (good evidence versus bad): his other posts always had good evidence to support views; 2. looking at all possibilities (it seems like this post only looked at one side and took that side as Gospel truth); and 3. making some strange conclusions and using for a source what most Christians believe as tabloid (WND): I will probably write more on this later. 

AGREED.

@TS, I think you ought to participate in the convo here, considering what The Sign said. Those are some extremely strongly worded statements regarding religion and personal belief, and they alienate entire groups of people based on their personal belief system; not just atheists/agnostic but also Muslims and Jews. Many of the statements made by The Sign are elitist and divisive, and the evidence to back them up is lacking. This is a strong departure from TS's usual tone.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: GINAFELICIA on January 22, 2012, 12:53:19 PM
Still i didn't read the full link to the other forum, but one thing i am going to say for now, i would remind you that someone opened a thread with pictures of Michael and people interested much in the pants of gold, are published pages and pages with photos, i want nor i am interested in influencing the beliefs of anyone in particular but there are people who cares more the size of the penis of Michael that other topics.
nooooo :o :lol:

you think we'll ever come to "investigate" that? ( I would like to know the truth but don't tell anyone :P)
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: GINAFELICIA on January 22, 2012, 01:24:52 PM
Quote
“…Masses of minds shrouded with clouded vision
Deceptions and indecisions
No faith of religion
How we’re living
The clock is ticking
The end is coming
There will be no warning…”

But we will live to see the dawn fresse/

I love this song. This song also says : "And enrolled in a class and don?t know who the professor is"

@MJ you changed your mind in the meantime?

from curls:

Quote
So here's a revolutionary thought - hey, Michael Jackson may not be right!  He might believe with all his being in God and prophesies regarding the end of the world etc, he may be doing everything in his power to alert the rest of mankind, and that might make him just about the most loving man to have ever lived, but that still doesn't necessarily make him right

This is just not possible. Michael Jackson can not be wrong.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: MichaelsAngel on January 22, 2012, 01:53:56 PM
Thanks for the info Aussie! I'm not an atheist but the extent of my Bible study is two comparative religion classes so I have a lot to read up on.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Sarahli on January 22, 2012, 02:02:17 PM
Just want to pinpoint to this from The Sign's post: "Even God has some limitations (see Hebrews 6:18; 11:6; James 1:13). And one thing that God can’t do is create finite beings with infinite knowledge..."

I believe that God has no limitations and the He can do everything, so I don't agree with this statement at all. Maybe it should be worded differently...  confused/

---------------------------------------

@ Gina thank you for reminding me about this great song!

SHOUT by Michael Jackson

Ignorance of people purchasing diamonds and necklaces
And barely able to keep the payments up on their lessons
And enrolled in a class and don't know who the professor is (ie TBTB/Lucifer/Satan)
How low people go for the dough and make a mess of things?

Kids are murdering other kids for the fun of it
Instead of using their mind or their fist, they put a gun in it (ie people need to wake up and THINK for THEMSELVES, take responsibility)
Wanna be a part of a clique, don't know who's running it
Tragedy on top of tragedy you know it's killing me.

 So many people in agony, this shouldn't have to be
Too busy focusing on ourselves and not His Majesty (His Majesty = God)
There has to be some type of change for this day and age
We gotta rearrange and flip the page (Michael’s Hoax and Bam)

 Living encased like animals and cannibals (there’s a better way to live)
Eating each other alive just to survive the nine to five
Every single day is trouble while we struggle and strive
Peace of mind's so hard to find

 I wanna shout, throw my hands up and shout
What's this madness all about?
All this makes me wanna shout
You know it makes me wanna shout
Throw my hands up and shout
What's this madness all about?
All this makes me wanna shout, c'mon now

Problems, complications and accusations
Dividing the nations and races of empty faces, a war is taking place (Armageddon)
No substitution for restitution, the only solution for peace
Is increasing the height of your spirituality (Wake up and choose to be awakened)

Masses of minds are shrouded, clouded visions (People living in a passive state of mind)
Deceptions and indecision, no faith or religion, how we're living

The clock is ticking, the end is coming, there'll be no warning (EOW)
But we live to see the dawn  (Hope)

How can we preach, when all we make this world to be
Is a living hell torturing our minds?
We all must unite, to turn darkness to light  (Come together as One)
And the love in our hearts will shine

We're disconnected from love, we're disrespecting each other (Disconnected from True Love)
Whatever happened to protecting each other
Poisoned your body and your soul for a minute of pleasure
But the damage that you've done is gonna last forever

Babies being born in the world already drug addicted and afflicted
Family values are contradicted, ashes to ashes and dust to dust
The pressure is building and I've had enough (It’s tIME for a CHA_GE)

I wanna shout, throw my hands up and shout
What's this madness all about?
All this makes me wanna shout
You know it makes me wanna shout
Throw my hands up and shout
What's this madness all about?
All this makes me wanna shout, c'mon now (Michael has had enough -- have you?)
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: SimPattyK on January 22, 2012, 02:34:22 PM
[...]
I don't post much but I will say all of you have taught me so much, not just Michael but ALL OF YOU...
[...]
Thank you to all of you for helping me see so much.  You are all so important to me, this whole experience is a class room full of knowledge.  I could go the school forever and never learn as much as I have learned here.  Take care and LOVE TO ALL OF YOU
sandythyme, your entire post was sooo.... CUTE (http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Amour/0007.gif)(http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Amour/0007.gif) is the best word that comes to my mind now!

And what I quoted above ^^ from your message is one of the most beautiful thoughts I've ever read on this forum!

God bless you (http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Amour/chirolp_wkiss2.gif) and ... please post more often! ;)
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: SimPattyK on January 22, 2012, 02:41:50 PM
@souza: great post! (http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Respect/respect-chapeau.gif)
Especially this final part! ;)

[...]
Seeing that many opposition, attacks, ridicule and accusations even strengthen my faith that I am doing the right thing by allowing it on here, because it's history repeating. Only eight people were ready when the flood came, even less when brimstone came out of heaven at Sodom and Gomorra. I bet Noah was ridiculed and attacked, but we all know who had the last laugh. The more I study the Bible, the more I understand in this hoax, and the more peace of mind it gives me. Maybe there will only be a handful left at the end, possible, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong on this.
So to everyone that wants to leave because of this: I will not hold you down or try to convince you. Some I might miss, some I might miss like migraine, but if you have to go then just go.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Dontwalkaway on January 22, 2012, 03:05:09 PM
Good point Diggyon.  There are other holy books such as the Quran and Talmud.  What do they say about the end of the World ?  Isn't the Talmud similar to the Old Testament ???  I know the three big religions Judiasm, Islam, and Christianity have a lot in common.   

Maybe it doesn't matter.  If God sent some one to help earth it's for the whole planet.  Not only one religion.  If you beleive in God, then it's the same God for all of us.   I think of God as the creator.

Love You All

 

 
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: AnaMarcia on January 22, 2012, 03:40:14 PM
I'm just confused about whether TS is saying Michael will BAM before the EOW to help save us, if Michael did die and is going to come back at the EOW, or if Michael's BAM is unrelated to EOW. I think I need to read his post a couple more times to understand it better.

Me too.

So TS gave the deadline of December 31, 2012. Perhaps he believes firmly that the world will end and we will not be here in January 2013 to charge a answer?

Michael Bam mean, then, we met again in eternal life after EOW?

EOW does not scare me and never thought it can not happen soon. Just look at the environmental disasters that have happened in all the world, killing thousands of people at once.

I'm not afraid. I just wanted to know the truth about Michael before leaving for paradise.

But TS, if we're here in January 1, 2013 and Michael did not Bam, you know how much you will be ridiculed, is not it?

And Michael ... if you are behind all this and also believes firmly in EOW, can you give us a little more joy here on earth before we have to go to another dimension?  :oops:

Wait and see!  bearhug
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: iamamjbeliever on January 22, 2012, 04:14:54 PM
TS is deceiving all of you, i never trust him, and never will. The only person i trust is Michael and his words. Michael should know by now the bible was written by MEN with huge egos try to control the population and fear the people.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: PureLove on January 22, 2012, 04:37:35 PM

I agree with a lot of what you've said here PureLove. I, for one, cannot ignore what I see happening in the world around us and I refuse to bury my head in the sand.  It's possible that I over-analyze events sometimes but when the dominoes keep falling, it's hard to ignore.  I believe in God, I have ever since I was a child and my family only went to church for a couple of years and for me, that was Sunday school in the basement of the church while the grown-ups were upstairs hearing the sermons.  I was very young so I was not overly influenced from what little I can remember but believing in God is something that has always been natural to me.  I know a lot of atheists that have had near-death experiences (I'm a civilian in a military work environment) and a few of them have admitted to me that in those moments, they have prayed to God.  I think that deep down a lot of people believe, or know instinctively, that God exists.  I know this doesn't apply to everybody as everyone is an individual with their own belief systems.  So whoever reads TS's post, take from it what you will, but don't dismiss it out of hand.  Even Front said, and I'm paraphrasing here - if you have faith in nothing else, have faith in Michael.  And we're all here because we believe, or know, that Michael is alive.  He's not going to drive us off a cliff.

Exactly Andrea. Thank you.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: bindupbrokenhearted on January 22, 2012, 04:38:51 PM
Just wanted to offer something here:

Some of us did not become Christians because of TS.  I became a Christian over 10 years ago.  And I was an agnostic before that, not raised in the church.  I studied the Bible myself as an adult and came to my own conclusions about it.  I was not, nor ever was brainwashed into anything, and I don't like most churches in this country nor in the world, as I do think they participate in MK Ultra and other horrible things.  This doesn't mean ALL Christians are bad.  Just that the 'churches' are corrupt.  Which is nothing new.  This has been happening since Jesus' time.

Even though I kind of wish TS would post to talk more about his post yesterday, my FAITH in God is not shaken over this.  TS is a man (I assume).  God is God.  My faith in God stands firm, no matter what TS does or does not do.  My faith does not depend on TS because it never did the past 10 years (which is WAY before TS ever posted on this forum).

I do respect ALL opinions here.  But I am not 'mind controlled' by TS or anything.  My thought on the EOW comes from the Bible, not TS.

Love and peace to everyone here!
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: MaryK on January 22, 2012, 04:56:14 PM
First of all I would like to stress that these are my personal beliefs. I know that these might not correspond to anyones opinion or „official“ interpretations of the Bible by scholars.
This is just my honest mindset and beliefe.
On a more lighthearted note: I am not a native speaker. I´ve tried to express my thoughts as good as possible. Anyone who might find mistakes in grammar or spelling: please keep them, their all yours ;-)
So here  I go:

Thank you TS for drawing attention to the subject of „the covenant“.
I think that it is important to distinguish the „original covenant“ (all related to the Ark of the Covenant, the 10 Commandments, Moses and so on) and the „new covenant“.
So what is the new covenant and why would God have to establish a new one if he already had established one?

The original covenant was bound to the 10 Commandments. God´s LAW imprinted in stone. Basically a very strict assignment for God´s people. Something that created fear in some and revolutionary thoughts and actions in others.
Now....as many of us know, the original covenant has been broken by the Israelites over and over again. What is the old testament (to a great amount) but the story of the covenant being broken and mankind disobeying God (remember also the story of Adam and Eve).
So what does that mean? Was mankind doomed at that point?
No, we were not and never will be.

God knew/knows that his children are weak sometimes, that they tend to doubt, disobey and let themselves be deceived.
Everyone who has children will agree that we may get angry when our children disobey our rules and we might even punish them for that and we also might be disappointed...BUT: we´ll never stop loving them and trying to bring them back to the right path.

Hebrews 10:17
"Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more.
Jer 31.34
"I will forgive their iniquity and I will remember their sin no more"

So now...what did God do to save his people, to give them a new chance...what is the new covenant?

I am sure many of you will know these words:

John 3:16: For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

Jesus is the new covenant.
By giving his only son, by making him a human among other humans, God sort of signed a cancelation agreement, the old covenant would be no more.
With the blood of Jesus God renewed the covenant.

Luke 22:20
In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you"

And this time it was not meant to be a covenant with God´s law carved in stone:

The „concept“ of the new covenant is not based on fear and strictness. The basis for the new covenant is based on the concept of forgiveness.
God did not turn his back on his children and did not break his vow of the covenant in the face of their betrayal. He offered a new beginning and showed that he would forever be right where he promised to be: among his people. Moreover: in their hearts.
In my opinion this means that whereever there is love, kindness, empathy, compassion found in someones heart, there also is forgiveness for his/her sins and the promise of salvation. Because these are the virtues, the ideals, the values that God has shown by offering forgiveness and salvation by sacrificing his only son.

Hebrews 10:16
"This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds."
Ezekiel 36:26
I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.

Does this mean that only the ones who believe in Jesus literally will be saved in the end?
That´s not what I believe.
Yes of course, we have heard things like these:

John 14:6
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

John 10:9
"I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. He will come in and go out, and find pasture."

In my opinion this does not mean „believe in Jesus and you will be saved, otherwise you will be doomed“.
Everyone who will try to be righteous and keep a pure heart will be saved. God knows that we have faults and that at times we will commit sins and wrongdoing.
I think that the new covenant sealed with the blood of Jesus Christ is the offer for forgiveness and salvation for everybody who will try to live up to the priciple of love and compassion. The new covenant/Jesus is the gate, the open door, the possibility, the chance.

So what are we to do here on earth, what is our mission, what is the best that we can do?

2 Corinthians 3:6
"He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant--not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life."

2 Corinthians 3:3
"You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts."

What I believe is that we all must live and breathe and show love. And along with love there go respect, awareness, compassion, kindness and forgiveness.
Onto our neighbours, our family, our friends and each living being on this earth. Carry on and carry out the SPIRIT.

So whether you believe in Jesus or not, wheter you call him „God“ or some other name...it does not matter. All that matters is what is in your heart. 
I really believe that God will judge by looking into our hearts and not upon our deeds or our denomination.
No deed of a man can „buy“ salvation and now denomination holds the „secret“ and only way to it.

It does not matter if we are aware of that or not. It does not matter if we are religious or not.
All that matters is that we DO have the promise of salvation through the new covenant.

And having said all this I do not find it hard to build a bridge to our beloved MJ.
He made his life an example of caring for others, compassion, kindness, discipline and above all: LOVE.

And there is one more thing that I believe and that I am certain that MJ is aware of:
God is LOVE.
And therefore he shall forever remain in God´s love and God´s love will remain within him.
As in any of us who will honestly try to love and respect and keep a pure heart.

As Front said:
"If you're not a religious person…it matters not!
If you think Front is Mickey Mouse…it matters not!
If you're a religious person, have faith in God.
If you're not, then have faith in Michael."

And allow me to add: If you do not believe in TS, it matters not!

If you do not believe in God then just believe in Michael and see and try to follow the example that he has been giving.
Do not live in fear, do not lose hope.

If there is one HUGE reason behind Michael´s death hoax then for me it would be this:
He took a step aside, retreated the entertainer and King of Pop from the worlds stage in order to allow everyone to take a closer look on the MAN behind the myth and let his message be heard loud and clear and like this maybe enable and encourage people to follow his example.

Try to start with the man in the mirror, try to heal the world starting with your own little world, your environment, the people around you.
Try to make this world a better place. Make that change....make the difference!

May God bless you all.
 bearhug















Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: bindupbrokenhearted on January 22, 2012, 05:46:15 PM
This is a strange video if you ask me:

[YOUTUBE]YtVSPfBTUJs[/YOUTUBE]

Also, a very astute commenter on youtube said to see at 0:50 seconds in.

I am still not sure about this guy, Ron Wyatt.  Something seems off about him.

Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: MaryK on January 22, 2012, 06:10:48 PM

I am still not sure about this guy, Ron Wyatt.  Something seems off about him.


You see...I am not sure about him or the discoveries that he claimed to have made.
The only interesting statement that is contained in his message is (for me personally) to take a closer look at the link between the old and the new covenant which is established by the blood (death) of Jesus (as I elaborated in my post above).
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Andrea on January 22, 2012, 06:27:41 PM
This is a strange video if you ask me:

[YOUTUBE]YtVSPfBTUJs[/YOUTUBE]

Also, a very astute commenter on youtube said to see at 0:50 seconds in.

I am still not sure about this guy, Ron Wyatt.  Something seems off about him.



Thanks for posting this video.

I honestly don't get the impression that he is lying.  I think he truly believes what he is saying.  If my impression is wrong then he is a very good actor.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: BeTheChange on January 22, 2012, 07:46:37 PM
I have several questions or things I'm confused about re: TS' last post that maybe some of you know some of the answers to...or maybe TS could 'chirp' in (there's been many other questions raised that I'd like more info on).  I will premise this by saying that I am by FAR not an expert on the Bible, the Ark, or Ron Wyatt....and if my questions are 'stupid' lol, I apologize for my ignorance.

1)  TS mentions Yom Kippur as having a 'link' to the EOW and the Ark.  Yom Kippur this year begins Sept 25th and ends Sept 26th.  Given that this is the year of the 'signs'...is this 2012 date of Yom Kippur going to be especially important (i.e. will we 'notice' things happening more so than any other day this year?)

2)  Front has mentioned being busy preparing a 'feast' a couple times lol...and this can 'tie' in with the Feast of Tabernacles that TS mentioned which occurs after Yom Kippur.

Quote
Monday 1 October [2012]
Sukkot
Sukkot or The Feast of Tabernacles, commemorates the years that the Jews spent in the desert on their way to the Promised Land, and celebrates the way in which God took special care of them under impossible conditions. Sukkot lasts for seven days, and work is not permitted on the first two days.
http://www.godweb.org/JewishCalendar.htm (http://www.godweb.org/JewishCalendar.htm)

If Yom Kippur symbolizes the 'end'...is it correct to interpret The Feast as the 'new beginning'?  Will this year's Feast (beginning Oct 1st, 2012) be THE new beginning?

3) TS mentioned that it will NOT be a physical battle.  If there is no physical battle, then how will we even know that THE 'battle' is going on?  Likewise, if there's no physical battle, then why the need to 'enlist voluntarily' in anything?  If God knows what's in our hearts, doesn't He already know what 'side' we're on?

4) TS stated that the info in Sign #1 is stuff that has never before been brought to light in all of history (paraphrasing...and hopefully not misinterpreting).  What info in Sign #1 was 'new' to the world?  I know there was some stuff I hadn't read about anywhere....but there's links to it all from youtube and other websites...not to mention the Bible.  Am I missing something or did TS mean that the stuff that is gonna come out will be 'new' to the world?  :?

5) Ron Wyatt lol.  This is the 'toughest' part of the post for me to 'digest' because 1) I don't have much faith in 'man', and 2) I am limited in my knowledge about Ron Wyatt and therefore can't make any decision without further research.  BUT...(and here's where my questions might sound really 'stupid' lol):

- isn't there stories in the Bible of people who 'tried' to look at the Ark and died?
- likewise, aren't there stories that only 'high priests' were allowed to be near it?
- if so, then why/how was Ron Wyatt 'allowed' to not only see it but take blood from it (supposedly)?  Wouldn't that be considered 'defacing' the Ark, given that it's Jesus' blood (again supposedly)?


I'll leave it at that for now...I have more questions but I'm looking into some stuff to see if I can find some answers on my own. 

This is all very interesting...that's for sure.

With L.O.V.E. always.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Heartsong on January 22, 2012, 07:54:36 PM
This is a strange video if you ask me:

[YOUTUBE]YtVSPfBTUJs[/YOUTUBE]

Also, a very astute commenter on youtube said to see at 0:50 seconds in.

I am still not sure about this guy, Ron Wyatt.  Something seems off about him.



Yes, very off. He is a fraudster. Just google him everyone. Even religious organisations have rejected his claims (of which there are more, one being the "discovery" of where the Red Sea parted). As bindup said, if what he said was true, all Christianity would be touting the find and even Answers in Genesis have rebutted him. He has no blood test results (there are none no matter how hard I looked), no empirical evidence, no collaboration, no video or photos- no evidence at all apart from his personal testimony.

I've worked with mentally ill people and they are VERY sincere in many of their wild beliefs, to the point where you sometimes have to wonder if they are right and you are wrong...until the evidence shows up. Case in point, the ill person was sure their 8yr old was being abused at home while she was in care and was very distressed. The person was extremely convincing until the evidence showed up as an adult child of 26 yrs...

Claims without evidence should be dismissed until evidence is forthcoming or people may as well believe any wild assertion, like the orbiting teapot:

"Many orthodox people speak as though it were the business of skeptics to disprove received dogmas rather than that of dogmatists to prove them. This, of course, is a mistake.

If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars, there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an ellipitical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add the the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But, if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense.

If, however the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books and taught as sacred truth every Sunday, hesitation to believe in it's existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychatrist in an enlightened age or of the inquisitor in an earlier time" Bertrand Russell 

Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: MissG on January 22, 2012, 07:57:04 PM
The theme about the end of the world has been taken out of context.

The sacred number for the mayas were number 13. The completed 13 b´ak´tun (batun) is going to take place the 21.12.2012 when the solar system has come full circle according to the Mayan calculations.
This is a Judeo-Christian mistake. We believe that time is linear but for the Mayas it circular.

The number 13  represented the 13 lunar phases. It was widely used in calendars and synchronometers by that culture.

Misinterpretation of the Mesoamerican Long Count calendar is the basis for a New Age belief that a cataclysm will take place on December 21, 2012. December 21, 2012 is simply the day that the calendar will go to the next b'ak'tun.-->A new era.

A baktun (properly b'ak'tun) is 20 katun cycles of the ancient Maya Long Count Calendar. It contains 144,000 days, equal to 394.26 tropical years.

 The current (13th) b´ak´tun will end, or be completed, on 13.0.0.0.0 (December 21, 2012 using the GMT correlation).

Just a new cycle is about to start according to that calendar created by people who believed that men were created by the blood of a snake taken by an eagle and spreaded it over a corn field.

They had 13 heavens with 13 Gods and 9 heavens under, plus 1 hell...

I mean....come oooonnn!
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: paula-c on January 22, 2012, 07:59:18 PM

This quote is of TS, and i believe that some time he said that the number 7 is very important to decipher the enigma of the ark, ..i think. The Sign,.. i guess is TS, then there is more to come




Quote
I thought that I would have time over the holidays for level 7 here; but that didn't happen, sorry.

Obviously, others can continue the investigation here; and I will be back here as soon as I can.

For sure, all three 7's will be done by the end of 2012: Level 7, Update 7, and Sign 7 (777).
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: ~Souza~ on January 22, 2012, 08:06:15 PM
This is a strange video if you ask me:

[YOUTUBE]YtVSPfBTUJs[/YOUTUBE]

Also, a very astute commenter on youtube said to see at 0:50 seconds in.

I am still not sure about this guy, Ron Wyatt.  Something seems off about him.



Yes, very off. He is a fraudster. Just google him everyone. Even religious organisations have rejected his claims (of which there are more, one being the "discovery" of where the Red Sea parted). As bindup said, if what he said was true, all Christianity would be touting the find and even Answers in Genesis have rebutted him. He has no blood test results (there are none no matter how hard I looked), no empirical evidence, no collaboration, no video or photos- no evidence at all apart from his personal testimony.

I've worked with mentally ill people and they are VERY sincere in many of their wild beliefs, to the point where you sometimes have to wonder if they are right and you are wrong...until the evidence shows up. Case in point, the ill person was sure their 8yr old was being abused at home while she was in care and was very distressed. The person was extremely convincing until the evidence showed up as an adult child of 26 yrs...

Claims without evidence should be dismissed until evidence is forthcoming or people may as well believe any wild assertion, like the orbiting teapot:

"Many orthodox people speak as though it were the business of skeptics to disprove received dogmas rather than that of dogmatists to prove them. This, of course, is a mistake.

If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars, there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an ellipitical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add the the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But, if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense.

If, however the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books and taught as sacred truth every Sunday, hesitation to believe in it's existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychatrist in an enlightened age or of the inquisitor in an earlier time" Bertrand Russell

That's a lot of judgement about someone you only 'googled' and never met. Do you know what slander I find if I google MJ? Does that mean that everything on the internet about MJ is truth? Hell no! So if I were you, I would not jump to conclusions only by 'googling'. This man appears very sincere and if there is one thing I learned in the past 3 years, it is that truth is ALWAYS ignored or ridiculed. Just look at how the media and the non-believers treat us hoaxers.

 WTF?? is wrong with people lately? So much hate and judgement and assumptions towards people they never even met. It's actually pretty disgusting in my opinion.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: MissG on January 22, 2012, 08:07:42 PM
As motivated as R.W was, to say that Jesus was not from this world is not helping him much to achieve his proof of biblic prophecies.

There are some excavations going on under the jewish wall which were stopped for other issues, mainly political as well as religious, but is about land and the Palestinians vs Israelites.

A LOT archeology is buried there and it is not in the interest of many to dig up more.


Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: BeTheChange on January 22, 2012, 08:09:44 PM
Re: Ron Wyatt...I'm not making any decision just yet because it would be an uninformed/uneducated one, at this point anyway.  My 'instinct' is to be skeptical/cautious...but that has more to do with me than with him or any of his claims.  One thing I will say is that IF the basis to dismiss his claims is due to the scientific, political, or religious communities' LACK of approval in his claims, then THAT isn't good enough for me either (i.e. 'their' lack of approval doesn't automatically mean his claims are fake...especially given what we KNOW about these institutions and how they operate based on power, greed, and money).

Again, I'm not saying I believe anything from Wyatt...as I stated before, that was the 'toughest' part of TS' post for me to 'digest'....BUT, relying on ANY institution to give us the 'truth' would also be naive IMO based on a lot of history full of lies and cover-ups.

With L.O.V.E. always.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: bindupbrokenhearted on January 22, 2012, 08:14:26 PM
This is a strange video if you ask me:

[YOUTUBE]YtVSPfBTUJs[/YOUTUBE]

Also, a very astute commenter on youtube said to see at 0:50 seconds in.

I am still not sure about this guy, Ron Wyatt.  Something seems off about him.



Yes, very off. He is a fraudster. Just google him everyone. Even religious organisations have rejected his claims (of which there are more, one being the "discovery" of where the Red Sea parted). As bindup said, if what he said was true, all Christianity would be touting the find and even Answers in Genesis have rebutted him. He has no blood test results (there are none no matter how hard I looked), no empirical evidence, no collaboration, no video or photos- no evidence at all apart from his personal testimony.

I've worked with mentally ill people and they are VERY sincere in many of their wild beliefs, to the point where you sometimes have to wonder if they are right and you are wrong...until the evidence shows up. Case in point, the ill person was sure their 8yr old was being abused at home while she was in care and was very distressed. The person was extremely convincing until the evidence showed up as an adult child of 26 yrs...

Claims without evidence should be dismissed until evidence is forthcoming or people may as well believe any wild assertion, like the orbiting teapot:

"Many orthodox people speak as though it were the business of skeptics to disprove received dogmas rather than that of dogmatists to prove them. This, of course, is a mistake.

If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars, there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an ellipitical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add the the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But, if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense.

If, however the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books and taught as sacred truth every Sunday, hesitation to believe in it's existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychatrist in an enlightened age or of the inquisitor in an earlier time" Bertrand Russell

That's a lot of judgement about someone you only 'googled' and never met. Do you know what slander I find if I google MJ? Does that mean that everything on the internet about MJ is truth? Hell no! So if I were you, I would not jump to conclusions only by 'googling'. This man appears very sincere and if there is one thing I learned in the past 3 years, it is that truth is ALWAYS ignored or ridiculed. Just look at how the media and the non-believers treat us hoaxers.

 WTF?? is wrong with people lately? So much hate and judgement and assumptions towards people they never even met. It's actually pretty disgusting in my opinion.

Hi Souza,

You're right.  I shouldn't have said that 'he seems off' but 'that his message seems off'.  That is what I meant.  So I apologize. 

I am all for hearing his evidence.  But I haven't seen any yet. 

I try to judge no one, as only God is omniscient, therefore, it is not my job to judge anyone, especially to people I don't know.  I know I fall short of God's law everyday.  Forgive me.  I am forgiven, not perfect.

I apologize if I seemed to be attacking RW.  I am just very skeptical of his message and claims, that's all.  I really, really don't mean to attack anyone, so I apologize if I seemed like I was.

It is hard this day in age to figure out what is a character assassination, what is real info, and what is lies.  Hopefully I didn't come off as being mean to RW.  I care deeply about all people.

But I also want the truth too.  bearhug
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: MissG on January 22, 2012, 08:15:56 PM

This quote is of TS, and i believe that some time he said that the number 7 is very important to decipher the enigma of the ark, ..i think. The Sign,.. i guess is TS, then there is more to come




Quote
I thought that I would have time over the holidays for level 7 here; but that didn't happen, sorry.

Obviously, others can continue the investigation here; and I will be back here as soon as I can.

For sure, all three 7's will be done by the end of 2012: Level 7, Update 7, and Sign 7 (777).

The seven sacraments: Baptism, Confirmation, Eucharist, penance, anointing of the sick, marriage and holy orders


(In spanish: Los siete sacramentos: Bautismo, confirmacion, eucaristia, penitencia, uncion de los enfermos, matrimonio y orden sacerdotal)

For a few instances of this, take the seven days (or cycles) of the creation as referred to in Genesis:

The seven heavens, so often referred to.
The seven thrones.
The seven seals.
The seven churches.
The seven days' march round the walls of Jericho, when, on the seventh day, the walls fell, before that mysterious God force symbolized in the number of seven. It is also remarkable that there are exactly seven generations from David to the birth of Christ. In Revelation we read of the seven spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. Ezekiel speaks of The seven angels of the Lord that go to and fro through the whole earth, which is believed to be a reference to the magnetic influences of the seven creative planets which radiate through the earth.

And this goes on and on and on and on....

Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: sandythyme on January 22, 2012, 08:17:34 PM
SimPattyK.....thank you!   bearhug
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: MissG on January 22, 2012, 08:25:15 PM
Back to R.W I still don´t get why people wants to make Jesus out of this earth.

The most probable scenario is that he was a normal man with revolutionary ideas, very charismatic, not understood by his own people and hated because he said a blasphemy, that he was the messiah. He really created a new concept of not agreeing with the system of faith back then and created a new set of values followed up to today.

Also, back then, people were experts in making others believe in supernatural powers using special effects. Just read about the oracle of Delphi.

The sacrifice of lamb or other animals is a common thing among some primitive religions, so may be that blood R.W talks about is just animal blood.



Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: hesouttamylife on January 22, 2012, 08:38:02 PM
SlimpattyK said:  "If there is one HUGE reason behind Michael´s death hoax then for me it would be this:
He took a step aside, retreated the entertainer and King of Pop from the worlds stage in order to allow everyone to take a closer look on the MAN behind the myth and let his message be heard loud and clear and like this maybe enable and encourage people to follow his example.

Try to start with the man in the mirror, try to heal the world starting with your own little world, your environment, the people around you.
Try to make this world a better place. Make that change....make the difference!"



I love this.  Beautifully stated and from the heart.  Bless you.    bearhug
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: ~Souza~ on January 22, 2012, 08:44:48 PM
Back to R.W I still don´t get why people wants to make Jesus out of this earth.

The most probable scenario is that he was a normal man with revolutionary ideas, very charismatic, not understood by his own people and hated because he said a blasphemy, that he was the messiah. He really created a new concept of not agreeing with the system of faith back then and created a new set of values followed up to today.

Also, back then, people were experts in making others believe in supernatural powers using special effects. Just read about the oracle of Delphi.

The sacrifice of lamb or other animals is a common thing among some primitive religions, so may be that blood R.W talks about is just animal blood.

Your post actually says then that Jesus' disciples were liars and that RW lied about the blood, because he said it was analyzed and confirmed human (see the video lilwendy posted in the thread on the other forum).

What I think is interesting about Ron Wyatt is that he described the Ark in a way no one ever has. The popular (indiana jones) ark is the one the catholic church uses, and if there is one institution on earth I do NOT trust, it's the catholic church. But Wyatt's description has biblical confirmation and makes way more sense. Why was Wyatt ridiculed like that, why attacked? Why is this not common knowledge under christians? That to me tells me he spoke the truth. Lies have a platform in this world, truth hasn't. That's one thing I know.

Maybe I will call the museum when I have time to ask them about the blood results etc. I have my phone contract ending next month and I still have 250 euros to spend before it's gone, so this might be a good way, lol.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: BeTheChange on January 22, 2012, 08:48:08 PM
SlimpattyK said:  "If there is one HUGE reason behind Michael´s death hoax then for me it would be this:
He took a step aside, retreated the entertainer and King of Pop from the worlds stage in order to allow everyone to take a closer look on the MAN behind the myth and let his message be heard loud and clear and like this maybe enable and encourage people to follow his example.

Try to start with the man in the mirror, try to heal the world starting with your own little world, your environment, the people around you.
Try to make this world a better place. Make that change....make the difference!"

I love this.  Beautifully stated and from the heart.  Bless you.    bearhug

+1 ... Beautifully said Sim...and there's LOTS to love about 'the man'.

"He was an angel walking the planet"

IMO...he still is, and he hasn't 'let go of our hand'.  And he's probably hoping we won't let go of his either. 

I know I won't.

With L.O.V.E. always.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: MissG on January 22, 2012, 08:57:34 PM
Back to R.W I still don´t get why people wants to make Jesus out of this earth.

The most probable scenario is that he was a normal man with revolutionary ideas, very charismatic, not understood by his own people and hated because he said a blasphemy, that he was the messiah. He really created a new concept of not agreeing with the system of faith back then and created a new set of values followed up to today.

Also, back then, people were experts in making others believe in supernatural powers using special effects. Just read about the oracle of Delphi.

The sacrifice of lamb or other animals is a common thing among some primitive religions, so may be that blood R.W talks about is just animal blood.

Your post actually says then that Jesus' disciples were liars and that RW lied about the blood, because he said it was analyzed and confirmed human (see the video lilwendy posted in the thread on the other forum).

What I think is interesting about Ron Wyatt is that he described the Ark in a way no one ever has. The popular (indiana jones) ark is the one the catholic church uses, and if there is one institution on earth I do NOT trust, it's the catholic church. But Wyatt's description has biblical confirmation and makes way more sense. Why was Wyatt ridiculed like that, why attacked? Why is this not common knowledge under christians? That to me tells me he spoke the truth. Lies have a platform in this world, truth hasn't. That's one thing I know.

Maybe I will call the museum when I have time to ask them about the blood results etc. I have my phone contract ending next month and I still have 250 euros to spend before it's gone, so this might be a good way, lol.

I don´t think that Jesus disciples lied, but the church did modifying the bible content. Imo, the story and history is other.

R.Wyatt send the blood to be analyzed and I do not believe for a second that those were the results. That blood should have been analyzed by more labs in order to obtain accurate results, and that didn´t happen. It´s like tests of C14. One needs to test in 2-3 labs...also the tests must happen under neutral and just scientific approaches. That´s not the case of R.Wyatt and his team.

There are other "arks" found dated by c14. one of those was in the dusty shelf of a south African museum.

The academy "attacked" R.Wyatt because he did not give solid proof as required in this situations.

In resume, R.W said that Jesus was "a freak" with less chromosomes than human beings have, so he was out of this planet and holly.
Why to make it so fantastic? Why not accepting that Jesus was human, charismatic and a leader of some sort and just that?

As I said, his claims are just directed towards proving scientifically  his beliefs, but it did not work because he couldn´t.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: bindupbrokenhearted on January 22, 2012, 09:28:33 PM
To be honest, I am not sure where all this is going (TIAI).

The more I research Ron Wyatt, the less evidence I see regarding his claims.  I know the AoC is important (especially for the EOW) but where is this all going?

IDK: I guess I need to take a break for a while.  And pray and study some more on this.  Will be back later when I have had a break.

Love and peace.   bearhug
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Heartsong on January 22, 2012, 09:44:08 PM
This is a strange video if you ask me:

[YOUTUBE]YtVSPfBTUJs[/YOUTUBE]

Also, a very astute commenter on youtube said to see at 0:50 seconds in.

I am still not sure about this guy, Ron Wyatt.  Something seems off about him.



Yes, very off. He is a fraudster. Just google him everyone. Even religious organisations have rejected his claims (of which there are more, one being the "discovery" of where the Red Sea parted). As bindup said, if what he said was true, all Christianity would be touting the find and even Answers in Genesis have rebutted him. He has no blood test results (there are none no matter how hard I looked), no empirical evidence, no collaboration, no video or photos- no evidence at all apart from his personal testimony.

I've worked with mentally ill people and they are VERY sincere in many of their wild beliefs, to the point where you sometimes have to wonder if they are right and you are wrong...until the evidence shows up. Case in point, the ill person was sure their 8yr old was being abused at home while she was in care and was very distressed. The person was extremely convincing until the evidence showed up as an adult child of 26 yrs...

Claims without evidence should be dismissed until evidence is forthcoming or people may as well believe any wild assertion, like the orbiting teapot:

"Many orthodox people speak as though it were the business of skeptics to disprove received dogmas rather than that of dogmatists to prove them. This, of course, is a mistake.

If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars, there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an ellipitical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add the the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But, if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense.

If, however the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books and taught as sacred truth every Sunday, hesitation to believe in it's existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychatrist in an enlightened age or of the inquisitor in an earlier time" Bertrand Russell

That's a lot of judgement about someone you only 'googled' and never met. Do you know what slander I find if I google MJ? Does that mean that everything on the internet about MJ is truth? Hell no! So if I were you, I would not jump to conclusions only by 'googling'. This man appears very sincere and if there is one thing I learned in the past 3 years, it is that truth is ALWAYS ignored or ridiculed. Just look at how the media and the non-believers treat us hoaxers.

 WTF?? is wrong with people lately? So much hate and judgement and assumptions towards people they never even met. It's actually pretty disgusting in my opinion.

So how else would you like me to find out about the guy's work Souza? He is actually dead now so meeting him is out of the question. Maybe my local library?  I searched databases as well, of which there is no sign of his purported blood tests. Other words were used to describe his finds besides fraud. I recall 'scam' and 'charlatan' was used also and these were from Christian websites, so there is no bias in the reports. I have concluded his work was fraudulent, however in the light of new evidence I would be happy to change my mind. There is no hate involved in my conclusion. I have no personal feelings towards the man one way or the other. I am reporting comments on his work.

As for Wyatt seeming sincere, that is hardly the way to measure the truth or not of what he claims. People are ripped off every day by those that come across as 'sincere'.

Yes, if I google Michael I will find much abhorrent info, but I will also find much good. It is up to me to weigh the evidence and I have. Michael was victimised, framed and villified for no good reason except hearsay. There was no PROOF! As there is no proof regarding Wyatt's claims, ALL of them. If there was proof, it would be there, as there was for Michael. The truth always comes out in the end.

I don't think the truth is always ignored. The truth is always there, it just depends on what you use to determine what it is, feelings or facts. Some people use feelings, others need facts. For people that use feelings the facts are irrelevant - it 'feels' right so therefore it is. This method however does not necessarily mean one has discovered the truth, even if it feels as if one has. Feelings often trump facts no matter how convincing the facts are.

Others, like me, need facts. For ones like me this is more difficult because I have then given myself the task of determining what is fact and what is not, no matter how displeasing I may personally find the truth to be. Regarding Wyatt, I have already listed the reasons I doubt his claims and I did not find them on google. They were my own. There are no adequate answers to any of them and apparently even the bible disagrees as to the position of the Ark at the time of Christs crucifixion. 

I too wonder what is going on here because atm there seems to be much uncritical acceptance of extraordinary claims. Making conclusions and then finding facts to support those conclusions is not the way fact finding works. Facts come before conclusions. What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

Maybe TS can set us straight? Maybe, as some have suggested, it needs to be taken as more of a symbolic example?
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: RK on January 22, 2012, 10:09:34 PM
I think there are a lot of similarities to the way Ron Wyatt is and has been treated to the way MJ was judged as well. Much opinions and heresay offered from people with assumptions who never met them personally. I have never met Ron Wyatt. I have never seen his discoveries for myself, except for videos of the ashen remains at sodom and gomorra, which are very interesting and appear authentic.  To me, it appears as tho Ron Wyatt has nothing to hide. Being a devout man, he did not recant on his death bed. I have watched videos of people who have met with Mr Wyatt before his passing and they all conclude that he was extremely sincere. People passing judgement without meeting him are going on secondhand knowledge, similar to the way tabloids blanket a matter with their disinformation.
So, what do I make of the claims of Ron Wyatt? I simply don't know. But I will not dismiss it as nonsense. I will  file it away until more light is given . The Sign's latest post has me scratching my head in a few places. But these would be possibly doctrinal issues.
The big picture seems to be the overall theme of the post and as this is only part 1, I will wait and reserve any conclusion until more information is brought forth.
And finally, if anyone is concerned that some of us have been brainwashed by TS posts, this is not true, as my sick old brain got a cleansing and washing with the word of God way back in 1979.The renewing of my mind  was no small feat, and is an ongoing process daily.   
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: BeTheChange on January 22, 2012, 10:17:03 PM
Maybe TS can set us straight? Maybe, as some have suggested, it needs to be taken as more of a symbolic example?

Or maybe TS has set us up? As others have suggested, I'm wondering if this is some sort of 'test'.  It's almost like he included some 'common sense' truths in his post (i.e. as per the Bible, the location of the angels/cherubims and the staves makes 'sense' to me).  But there is other stuff he's included (especially the Wyatt stuff) that takes a huge leap of faith (not in God, but in a 'man' or several) at this point anyway, with what we've got at our disposal to analyze. 

IDK...we've often said that nothing TS posts is 'random'...and it's confusing to me as to how HE would consider any of this to be 'evidence', based on the many instances where he 'discredited' other evidence because it 'wouldn't stand up in court'.

So...I'm kinda left with 2 thoughts:  TS is either intentionally 'testing' us (once again)....OR he has info that we don't have yet that would support Wyatt's claims (and that will hopefully be made available to us at some point).  But either way....both options mean, to me anyway, that based on what we've learned in the past 2.5 years, along with what we knew coming in....it's gonna take more than what we've seen so far to 'support' Wyatt's claims (JMHO of course). 

Having said that, though, I'm gonna remain open to further evidence, research whatever else I can in the meantime...and I'm gonna keep watchin'. 

One of the many things I have learned is that there is a lot more to be learned...no matter how 'sure' you are about anything.

And finally, if anyone is concerned that some of us have been brainwashed by TS posts, this is not true, as my sick old brain got a cleansing and washing with the word of God way back in 1979.The renewing of my mind  was no small feat, and is an ongoing process daily.    [/color]

 /bravo/

With L.O.V.E. always.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: bec on January 22, 2012, 10:30:01 PM
Sorta proves the haters wrong, hasn't it? Bunch of dirty brains here.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: BeTheChange on January 22, 2012, 11:43:04 PM
For those that want to take a little 'mental break' from the 'studying'....here's some great (and beautiful) advice from 'the man' himself:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5Xps93E6BQ[/youtube]

@Mike...I've put my heart on the line, and I'm trying.  Love you!

With L.O.V.E. always.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: GINAFELICIA on January 23, 2012, 01:28:09 AM
Quote
To be honest, I am not sure where all this is going (TIAI).

Actually I think TIAI is going exactly in the direction it started from the very beginning. Maybe we should read TIAI revealed again.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on January 23, 2012, 01:47:26 AM
Ok TS- there is so much info in your last post that it will keep me busy studying for at least a week. ;) bounce/

I read the post yesterday, took it in and started to process it. I read all the comments here (which don't influence my research) and also did my research at the same time. Today I decided to start with the Cherubs on the Ark. I have also researched Solomon's Temple that was destroyed and the Ark removed before that. I have also researched the part about where Jesus was supposed to be originally sacrificed but then change of plans. I have used the Bible as my main source, then used wiki and also my memory from 2010 when I was researching the Ark then.

I remember reading about the Dome of the Rock being on the Temple Mount. I remember reading about Mount Moriah. I am not going to go into detail of my findings now. I am gonna have to break this into easy sections to comprehend.
I am going by the evidence and not by your word TS. rr/ ;) bearhug


Quote
9. Satan Deceives the Whole World

Exodus 37:7,8, “And he made two cherubims of gold, beaten out of one piece made he them, on the two ends of the mercy seat; One cherub on the end on this side, and another cherub on the other end on that side: out of the mercy seat made he the cherubims on the two ends thereof.” (see 25:18,19).

The angels were not “beaten out of one piece” on the top of the mercy seat; no, the two angels were connected on the ends of the mercy seat, the two sides of the ark (right side and left side). A study of the Hebrew word used here (#7098, “end”) makes this even clearer; it’s not referring to the angels being somewhere midway on the top of the throne, they are connected at the furthest ends of the mercy seat. And this was designed to represent God’s throne in heaven, where the angels are not allowed to be on top of His throne.
So Satan told a lie regarding how the cherub were created and where they were located. When you referenced Exodus 25:18,19 in the same part of Satan telling the lie, was that to say 25:18,19 description is still a lie from Satan?

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+25&version=NLT
Quote
Plans for the Ark of the Covenant

Exodus 25:17 "Then make the Ark’s cover—the place of atonement—from pure gold. It must be 45 inches long and 27 inches wide. 18 Then make two cherubim from hammered gold, and place them on the two ends of the atonement cover. 19 Mold the cherubim on each end of the atonement cover, making it all of one piece of gold. 20 The cherubim will face each other and look down on the atonement cover. With their wings spread above it, they will protect it. 21 Place inside the Ark the stone tablets inscribed with the terms of the covenant, which I will give to you. Then put the atonement cover on top of the Ark. 22 I will meet with you there and talk to you from above the atonement cover between the gold cherubim that hover over the Ark of the Covenant.
The way I comprehend the above description in red is that God told Moses to make the cherub out of hammered gold and place them on the ends of the atonement cover and then mold them into each end thus making it one peice. I don't read that as the cherubs being created from the mercy seat.

Is the wording atonement cover the same as mercy seat? According to the description it seems to me that the cherub have spread their wings above and connected their wings to make a protection of the atonement cover. The way it is written it is saying that the cherub look down on the atonement cover and God has said he will meet Moses there and talk from above the atonement cover between the cherub that hover. I understand that to mean that the atonement cover is just a cover for the Ark. If God is above the cover and between the cherub, is he using the cherub as his seat? or not sitting at all?


http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Chronicles%2028&version=NLT
Quote
David’s Instructions to Solomon

1 Chronicles 28:18
Finally, he gave him a plan for the LORD’s “chariot”—the gold cherubim whose wings were stretched out over the Ark of the LORD’s Covenant.
Then when David is telling Solomon the instructions for building the temple he also says to make cherubs and describes them as a chariot. Why would he need to make more cherub if the originals were attached to the ark? The description also says the wings are streched out and over the Ark.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Kings%208&version=NLT
Quote
The Ark Brought to the Temple

1 Kings 8:6 Then the priests carried the Ark of the LORD’s Covenant into the inner sanctuary of the Temple—the Most Holy Place—and placed it beneath the wings of the cherubim. 7 The cherubim spread their wings over the Ark, forming a canopy over the Ark and its carrying poles
And according to the above scripture when Solomon has the Ark brought to the temple it is placed beneath the wings of the cherub. So again why the need for a seperate pair of cherub if the original had the cherubs already made and attached? Maybe the 4 cherub are the 4 angels you (TS) said were always protecting the Ark?

P.S. Edited to say: Nevermind on the question of the atonement cover being the same as mercy seat. I have an answer from the video I found and posted on page 7 today. I'm still curious about the cherubs.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: MaryK on January 23, 2012, 02:04:21 AM
SlimpattyK said:  "If there is one HUGE reason behind Michael´s death hoax then for me it would be this:
He took a step aside, retreated the entertainer and King of Pop from the worlds stage in order to allow everyone to take a closer look on the MAN behind the myth and let his message be heard loud and clear and like this maybe enable and encourage people to follow his example.

Try to start with the man in the mirror, try to heal the world starting with your own little world, your environment, the people around you.
Try to make this world a better place. Make that change....make the difference!"

I love this.  Beautifully stated and from the heart.  Bless you.    bearhug

+1 ... Beautifully said Sim...and there's LOTS to love about 'the man'.

"He was an angel walking the planet"

IMO...he still is, and he hasn't 'let go of our hand'.  And he's probably hoping we won't let go of his either. 

I know I won't.

With L.O.V.E. always.

Uhm....it was actually me who said that  :lol:
Nevermind....glad you both like it
 bearhug
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: rswilley2011 on January 23, 2012, 02:36:52 AM
Quote from: BeTheChange
So...I'm kinda left with 2 thoughts:  TS is either intentionally 'testing' us (once again)....OR he has info that we don't have yet that would support Wyatt's claims (and that will hopefully be made available to us at some point).  But either way....both options mean, to me anyway, that based on what we've learned in the past 2.5 years, along with what we knew coming in....it's gonna take more than what we've seen so far to 'support' Wyatt's claims (JMHO of course).

Remember, this is only Sign #1. There will be 6 other "The Sign" posts. I'm sure we'll understand what TS is trying to explain as the posts progress.

He said that before 2012 is over, the three 7's will be complete:
- Level 7
- Update 7
- Sign 7
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: paula-c on January 23, 2012, 11:36:28 AM
Back to R.W I still don´t get why people wants to make Jesus out of this earth.

The most probable scenario is that he was a normal man with revolutionary ideas, very charismatic, not understood by his own people and hated because he said a blasphemy, that he was the messiah. He really created a new concept of not agreeing with the system of faith back then and created a new set of values followed up to today.

Also, back then, people were experts in making others believe in supernatural powers using special effects. Just read about the oracle of Delphi.

The sacrifice of lamb or other animals is a common thing among some primitive religions, so may be that blood R.W talks about is just animal blood.

Your post actually says then that Jesus' disciples were liars and that RW lied about the blood, because he said it was analyzed and confirmed human (see the video lilwendy posted in the thread on the other forum).

What I think is interesting about Ron Wyatt is that he described the Ark in a way no one ever has. The popular (indiana jones) ark is the one the catholic church uses, and if there is one institution on earth I do NOT trust, it's the catholic church. But Wyatt's description has biblical confirmation and makes way more sense. Why was Wyatt ridiculed like that, why attacked? Why is this not common knowledge under christians? That to me tells me he spoke the truth. Lies have a platform in this world, truth hasn't. That's one thing I know.

Maybe I will call the museum when I have time to ask them about the blood results etc. I have my phone contract ending next month and I still have 250 euros to spend before it's gone, so this might be a good way, lol.




the Ethiopian Orthodox Church was to show the world the Ark of the Covenant. The announcement itself had already on other occasions although in a more veiled form as the Ethiopian Orthodox Church has always claimed to be in possession of the Ark. What struck me is that a few days after this announcement the Patriarch of the church there called Abuna (grand father) Pauolos (Paulo) was visiting the Vatican at the invitation of Pope Benedict XVI.

the announcement is before June 24th already that occurs a first press release on 17 June in DNA Kronos, and then another small reference on 19 June. In fact, the Patriarch had been summoned by Rome in an important meeting which brought together 130 major religious representatives of the world. The different Christian churches (Catholic, Protestant and Orthodox), Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, the Hindu, and others were represented at the meeting. Taking this important detail I noticed that, in this case, had come all the churches to pay tribute to Rome. Of course, this won't be interpreted this way or by means of communication or by the participants, which not download their heads or be acrowned with the Pope. This no longer works as well.

This meeting has not been in the Vatican. Instead the city of L'Aquila, which was rocked by a severe earthquake in this city, moreover, has been chosen is the G8 meetings errrr

The three news AdN Kronos:


June 17
The Orthodox Patriarch, Abuna Pauolos wants to reveal the secret of the Millennium. In an exclusive interview in DNA KRONOS explains: "I am ready to tell the truth"...
"The Ark-reaffirms Pauolos - is found in Ethiopia from many centuries ago." "I have seen with my own eyes and only a few very qualified people have been able to do the same thing so far."…
The official announcement that Ethiopia will give to the world the keys of the secrecy of the Millennium, will be next Friday during a press conference at the Aldrovandi Hotel of Rome by the Orthodox Patriarch of Ethiopia, the Prince Aklile Berhan adopting Haile Selassie, and Duke Amedeo D' area
According to some studies, the Ark was stolen from Jerusalem by the son of King Solomon and brought to Aksum, regarded as the Jerusalem of Ethiopia. And a new Museum in Aksum will be call to welcome the Ark, whose project has been funded by the Prince's Foundation, designated heir to the throne of Haile Selassie I before his death, Crhijecllu, acronym of the initials of the names of the sons of Prince Christian, Jessica, Clarissa and Lucretia.


June 19
The Orthodox Patriarch of Ethiopia, Abuna Pauolos confirmed two days ago to DNA KRONOS that: "the Ark is found in Ethiopia, and neither of us knows for how long still." Only God knows. "I am not here to give evidence that the Ark is found in Ethiopia, but I'm here to tell what I've seen"
"Ethiopia is part of the throne of the Alliance." The Ark of the Covenant had been in Ethiopia for 3000 years and there still, and with the will of God because it was a miracle to Ethiopia will continue there. “
"All that - said the Patriarch in response to journalists - said about her is perfectly described in the Bible." "The State of conservation is good, because it has not been made with hands, and is"something that God has blessed"".There are many writings and evidence of their presence in a part of Etiopía… "I am not here to give evidence of the Ark in Ethiopia, but I am here to say what I saw, what I know and I can testify." I did not say that the Ark will be shown to the world... "It is a mysterious object of worship".
Patriarch Pauolos also spoke about the construction of a Museum in Aksum, a structure that will receive and preserve the treasures built for centuries and centuries in Aksum. The Museum, funded by the foundation of the Prince and it should be built within two years, also could hold the Ark of the Covenant, but also explained Abuna Pauolos "is needed the approval of the Holy Synod, the supreme organ of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church." The Patriarch Pauolos, President of the religions of the G8, which was attended by 16 to 18 June at the interreligious meeting which was held between Rome and L'Aquila. The day before yesterday, the Patriarch and some more "have been invited by the community di Sant Egidio, where they attended a workshop on the religious history of Ethiopia, then had a meeting at the Vatican with Pope Benedict XVI."
"In the Vatican, Benedict XVI and Patriarch discussed many things and his Holiness the Patriarch has obtained an invitation to return in October", declared the Prince Makonne Haile Selassie.


June 24
The Patriarch of the Orthodox Church of Ethiopia said that you announced to the world this Friday the presentation of the Ark of the Covenant, perhaps the most precious archaeological objects from the spiritual world, which he says has been hiding in a church in your country for thousands of years, according to Italian news agency.
Abuna Pauolos, is Italy to meet with Pope Benedict XVI this week, told the news agency, "Soon the world will be able to admire the Ark of the Covenant described in the Bible as the recipient of the tables of the law which Dios gave to Moses and the center of the searches and studies for centuries."
The announcement is expected to be done at 2 pm Italian time of Hotel Aldrovandi in Rome. Pauolos was reported to be accompanied by the Prince adopting Aklile Berhan Haile Sellassie and Duke Amedeo D'Acosta.
According to Pauolos, the Ark has maintained (hidden) in a church, but to defend the Treasury, was placed a copy in every church in Ethiopia.
He said that the Museum being built in Axum, Ethiopia, is where the Ark will be displayed. A foundation of d'Aosta will be allocated to finance the project.
The idea that the Ark is currently in Ethiopia is well documented, and is attributed to a polemical tradition dating back at least to 642 BC. Tradition says that he moved to the elephantine island in Egypt, then to the Tana Kirkos island in Ethiopia and finally to its present site in Santa Maria of the Zion Church in Axum (?).
The Ethiopians believe that he is destined to be handed over to the Messiah when he reigns in Mount Zion - the Temple Mount in Jerusalem



http://www.adnkronos.com/IGN/News/Cultura/?id=3.0.3437413641
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: RK on January 23, 2012, 11:39:37 AM
I've got some connections happening in my mind that I am wanting to type out here in a coherant way. So if my post seems a tad discordant, bear with me till the end and I will try my best to link this all together in an understandable way.
During the recent  trouble on the forum, I used to sneak away to spend some time on our sister site that Souza made....Michael's Army of Love.  There I came across a series on creation science by Dr Kent Hovind and I settled in to watch. I was smitten with his affable personality, and his God ordained gifting as a teacher. He was able to teach on scientific subjects and I found I was easily understanding. Now, when a teacher can get through to me, then that is a sign of an anointed teacher.  ::P  To pinch a saying of Michael's...I was totally nourished by it. So when it was brought up that Dr Hovind was serving ten years jail, I was incredulous. What was going on here. And set about to find out by searching  around.  I found a series that Kent did where he exposes the NWO plans. hmm. This is a video of him in action.
edit to include that the video I uploaded 2 days ago of Kent laying out all the plans of the elite during his  teaching sesion has now been removed.  smiley_spider
found another one.haha
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBYUtQrAuF0[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBYUtQrAuF0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBYUtQrAuF0)

Then when I was searching out  videos on Ron Wyatt, I was totally blown away to find a video of Dr Hovind again. He had personally met Ron and went on to tell what he encountered here.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ay1vFfkji8[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ay1vFfkji8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ay1vFfkji8)


So, my mind had been chewing over three people and how they tie in and related to one another.
What do MJ, Kent Hovind and Ron Wyatt have in common? They  all suffered false accusations and were purposely discreditted in the publics perception through various media.
For people who are wondering how MJ's death hoax came to this place where we are studying the Ark of the Covenant, I want to point out that it was signalled out to us in gentle whispers throughout the memorial. 
Melody likened Usher reaching out to touch the golden promethean casket to Uzza  reaching out to steady the Ark of the Covenant on it's journey and he was struck dead.[1Chron13:9] Uzza /Usher....coincidence.....nah....I don't believe in coincidences. As Back said of them: they are just a lazy placeholder for reasoning.  Now, do we believe Michael was the planner and creater of that  memorial? I do.

Then we have Jermaine saying that he was like Aaron to Michael's Moses. This was way back in the hoax, but I would have to dig around a bit for the exact interview. Poor Jermaine copped a lot of flack from everywhere for that remark, but a few years down the track and that puzzle piece fit into place....snick-clack....when Front posted about Moses leading the children of Israel out of the bondage of Egypt and shows a map that is from Ron Wyatt's site on the Red Sea crossing.  Another tie in with Ron Wyatt validated by Front and TS and Jermaine from way back in the hoax.  Hindsight is a wonderful thing. There are many other little tie ins and delicate whispers that have these three men tied together and I am thinking of that delectable poem that Front posted that started with the thought..... parallell lives. The poem also included the lines about there being only one race...... The same statement I had heard Kent Hovind make regarding the human race.  A thought I was so affected by, I jotted it down and posted a comment under the video a few days before Front said in his poem...a collective heart- one love, one race. No matter the colour of your face.
Which brings me to Souza's suggestion from her latest blog that we should go back and re-examine  some of the early hoax info with the biblical perspective in mind this time.
I would like to sift through the memorial again with this thought in mind, to see what we have missed from 2009. Would anyone care to join in with me?

Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: BeTheChange on January 23, 2012, 12:10:32 PM
@MaryK...I'm SO sorry I got that wrong!  I really like what you said and I also enjoyed reading your perspective on Sign #1.  Thanks for sharing  bearhug

Quote from: BeTheChange
So...I'm kinda left with 2 thoughts:  TS is either intentionally 'testing' us (once again)....OR he has info that we don't have yet that would support Wyatt's claims (and that will hopefully be made available to us at some point).  But either way....both options mean, to me anyway, that based on what we've learned in the past 2.5 years, along with what we knew coming in....it's gonna take more than what we've seen so far to 'support' Wyatt's claims (JMHO of course).

Remember, this is only Sign #1. There will be 6 other "The Sign" posts. I'm sure we'll understand what TS is trying to explain as the posts progress.

He said that before 2012 is over, the three 7's will be complete:
- Level 7
- Update 7
- Sign 7

I completely agree rswilley...that is why I'm just gonna let it all keep 'simmering'.  I should have added a 3rd thought/option...which is probably closer to the 'truth' (at least in my mind).  The 3rd option would be both (a 'test' of some sort and more info to come).  I think TS likes giving 'tests'  ;), even if just to gauge 'mindsets'....and Sign #1 is just one of seven signs, only one 'piece' of (hopefully) the last puzzle (or one of the final 7 pieces of the big (picture) puzzle that we've been working on for 2.5 years).  And one thing that is guaranteed with TS is that there's always more info to come (at the right time).

@RK...loved your last post!  We can choose to either 'dismiss' any relevance between Mike and TS' last post right from the get-go...or we can try to open/expand our minds and look for possible 'dots' or connections.  IMO, the ONLY way to do the former 'properly' is to do the latter first (we should not dismiss anything until ALL possible 'dots' have led to dead-ends...only then can anything be dismissed).  That will involve time, energy and desire....but I'm up for it!

I will join you RK in looking BACK with my Biblical shades on  8-)

With L.O.V.E. always.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: MaryK on January 23, 2012, 12:26:00 PM
@MaryK...I'm SO sorry I got that wrong!  I really like what you said and I also enjoyed reading your perspective on Sign #1.  Thanks for sharing  bearhug
Never mind! And thank you!
 bearhug

Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: diggyon on January 23, 2012, 12:51:16 PM
Good point Diggyon.  There are other holy books such as the Quran and Talmud.  What do they say about the end of the World ?  Isn't the Talmud similar to the Old Testament ???  I know the three big religions Judiasm, Islam, and Christianity have a lot in common.   

Maybe it doesn't matter.  If God sent some one to help earth it's for the whole planet.  Not only one religion.  If you beleive in God, then it's the same God for all of us.   I think of God as the creator.

Love You All

 

 

I have read the Quran and the Bible. I must admit that there are many similarities between them. But it is suitable for such a subject to draw attention to other holy books as well. Until now we are only reading Bible quotes. Somehow I believe that TS believes only in the Bible. That's why we never see any other quotes from other Holy Books.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: GodhaschosenMJ on January 23, 2012, 01:12:48 PM
Thanks RK for those video links very good!!
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Sarahli on January 23, 2012, 01:50:25 PM
Good point Diggyon.  There are other holy books such as the Quran and Talmud.  What do they say about the end of the World ?  Isn't the Talmud similar to the Old Testament ???  I know the three big religions Judiasm, Islam, and Christianity have a lot in common.   

Maybe it doesn't matter.  If God sent some one to help earth it's for the whole planet.  Not only one religion.  If you beleive in God, then it's the same God for all of us.   I think of God as the creator.

Love You All


I have read the Quran and the Bible. I must admit that there are many similarities between them. But it is suitable for such a subject to draw attention to other holy books as well. Until now we are only reading Bible quotes. Somehow I believe that TS believes only in the Bible. That's why we never see any other quotes from other Holy Books.

Indeed Diggyon there are a lot of similarities but also some contradictions. Now concerning the end of the world it doesn't go into great details, but there sure is mention of it. The world will end one day.

Now there is something that I had discovered and posted in a redirect thread and I remember you were the only one who answered. Do you remember Sura 55 "The Most Gracious" and the same verse repeated several times? When you add all the verses' numbers it pinpoints directly to 2012 (=1433 lunar calendar) and the verse in question is "Which of your Lord's marvels can you deny?. In all honesty I think that it's not a coincidence, especially considering that the Quran has been written a long time ago. So my interpretation is that God will show His marvels, surely the Ark is one of these marvels. Just what is happening with the unveiling of information about the Ark... coincidence? I think there will be other marvels to unveil as well.

There is also a prophecy called "the smoke" in Sura 44 that has to pass yet, before the advent of God and Magog, so maybe that it's related too.

44:10
Therefore, watch for the day when the sky brings a profound smoke.

I think it's about "darkness" envelopping the earth. Just my interpretation here.  ;)
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: GINAFELICIA on January 23, 2012, 02:58:07 PM
Good point Diggyon.  There are other holy books such as the Quran and Talmud.  What do they say about the end of the World ?  Isn't the Talmud similar to the Old Testament ???  I know the three big religions Judiasm, Islam, and Christianity have a lot in common.   

Maybe it doesn't matter.  If God sent some one to help earth it's for the whole planet.  Not only one religion.  If you beleive in God, then it's the same God for all of us.   I think of God as the creator.

Love You All

 

 

I have read the Quran and the Bible. I must admit that there are many similarities between them. But it is suitable for such a subject to draw attention to other holy books as well. Until now we are only reading Bible quotes. Somehow I believe that TS believes only in the Bible. That's why we never see any other quotes from other Holy Books.

I don't want to offend anyone but I tried to read the Quran and I was very dissapointed and I gave up. Maybe I should try again.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Dontwalkaway on January 23, 2012, 03:56:22 PM
RK,  I will join you in looking at past things such as the memorial.  I also have a copy of This Is It, and Michael Jackson's Vision and other things.    I think you're right about looking back for connections.  We weren't thinking about the arc and the EOW back in 2009.  At least I know I wasn't.

We still have to find out who is telling the truth about the Ark of the Covenant.  We have what is going on with Ethiopia, Ron Wyatt's work, Kent Hovind, and more.    Ron Wyatt also has a museum.  I've been wondering if they have information there such as the lab results for the blood (Jesus blood with 24 chromosomes).     I will help you look back at everything and also see what I can find.   I have also been listening to Kent Hovind (on Michael Jackson's Army of Love).  I am going to listen to what he has to say about the arc right now (the one you just posted).

The Truth Will Prevail.

Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: MJonmind on January 23, 2012, 04:01:33 PM
After my days of working it always takes me so long to catch up, especially when something this huge happens. ;D


I really enjoyed reading everyone's contributions to this Sign #1 mystery, even opposers such as MissG, and Heartsong! I'm glad you guys are here! Parliament always has opposition to keep perspective.  MissG, the awareness of cult methods is good to be reminded of.


Before I go further I thought I'd put a painting pic of MJ.
Quote
1 Kings 8:6 Then the priests carried the Ark of the LORD’s Covenant into the inner sanctuary of the Temple—the Most Holy Place—and placed it beneath the wings of the cherubim. 7 The cherubim spread their wings over the Ark, forming a canopy over the Ark and its carrying poles

(http://www.nypost.com/rw/nypost/2009/12/06/news/photos_stories/cropped/010_jackson_painting--300x400.jpg)

Rswilley2011
Quote
Remember, this is only Sign #1. There will be 6 other "The Sign" posts. I'm sure we'll understand what TS is trying to explain as the posts progress.
 
 He said that before 2012 is over, the three 7's will be complete:
 - Level 7

 - Update 7
 - Sign 7
Yes, so we can't jump to hasty conclusions.


RK
Quote
What do MJ, Kent Hovind and Ron Wyatt have in common? They  all suffered false accusations and were purposely discreditted in the publics perception through various media.
Thanks for finding this connection. I’ve got some homework. bounce/


BeTheChange
Quote
Or maybe TS has set us up? As others have suggested, I'm wondering if this is some sort of 'test'.  It's almost like he included some 'common sense' truths in his post (i.e. as per the Bible, the location of the angels/cherubims and the staves makes 'sense' to me).  But there is other stuff he's included (especially the Wyatt stuff) that takes a huge leap of faith (not in God, but in a 'man' or several) at this point anyway, with what we've got at our disposal to analyze. 

 
 IDK...we've often said that nothing TS posts is 'random'...and it's confusing to me as to how HE would consider any of this to be 'evidence', based on the many instances where he 'discredited' other evidence because it 'wouldn't stand up in court'.

So...I'm kinda left with 2 thoughts:  TS is either intentionally 'testing' us (once again)....OR he has info that we don't have yet that would support Wyatt's claims (and that will hopefully be made available to us at some point).  But either way....both options mean, to me anyway, that based on what we've learned in the past 2.5 years, along with what we knew coming in....it's gonna take more than what we've seen so far to 'support' Wyatt's claims (JMHO of course).

This is always something to keep in mind. TS' posts have always been layered, and things will jump out in retrospect with further insight.  I'm indeed as mystified, dismayed and shocked by Sign #1 as everyone. Way back I posted the "official" opinions  on RW as him being a fraud. I mean his claims are outragious, bold-faced, and seeming unsubstaniated. They do definately smack of some of the same stuff as Michael Jackson, bold-faced, outragious to the world.  I haven't been here for 2+ years chasing something if I didn't think there was something totally different here on another earthly historical scale, with thousands of under-the-radar proofs. 

So I am willing to dig deep into Ron Wyatts claims, and I really urge the rest of you doubters such as Bec and more, to at least dig into the unknown areas.  We are all in this together, and we really need each other, all of us here, each with different areas of expertise. Please don't go anywhere out of disgust with TS.

Grace
Quote
I remember how we would get trained in school discussions by taking on different roles - to prepare ourselves for future environments - and by discussing for the sake of discussing and not for the sake of the topic.
 Level 7 is not finished yet. Should we apply the learned-so-far structures and explorative strategies to other topics in order to strengthen our abilities? I'd say yes.


 Apply whatever is useful to go explore the earth disk and find out about the globe.

 Biblical and religious discussions are usually endless. The best training camp for faith, trust, tolerance, love.


Michael said he wanted to give them escapism, to tell a story, put love back into the world.

I would say that TS’ biblical understanding and his study of OT teaching on the Ark are accurate. The question of OT verification itself, has been examined by thousands of scolars in every generation for thousands of years.  But then TS makes this crazy jump to the work of a man who has hardly had this same scrutiny and criticism. It's not the heavy Bible study that is in question here, but his support of RW.  Because I trust Michael, and TS/Front, I am going to forage ahead into the unknown space.

So Paula-c, they were announcing the false ark basically from the Pope (connected to the ark in Ethiopia), as TS has said we need to be aware of the false ark. He is telling us about the true one, supposedly, as we will continue to learn about I’m sure. Interesting the “fake death” of MJ was on the same day as the “fake ark announcement”.

I still hold to this all being God’s story, full of twists and turns, many unbelievable even ridiculous-sounding aspects.  It’s a movie on a grand scale. Entertainment and escapism at its finest.  "Keep watching" is never truer.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Dontwalkaway on January 23, 2012, 04:43:18 PM
RK,   
                                                                                                                                                                         I was also thinking that the ancient egyptians and the great pyramid and the sarcaphagus , and maybe King Tut's Sarcaphagus are all connected to the arc somehow ???   Maybe ?, Maybe not ???   

Also, when we were researching the arc, I saw articles about the original one being from Atlantis.  The other ones were just to keep the original one safe.  The gold arc was supposed to fit into a crystal and gold capstone that floats on top of the great pyramid.  Maybe this is just fantasy ?????   Also, it appears that no egyptian king was buried in the kings chamber of the great pyramid.  Maybe they are waiting for the right time/person ??  We know the egyptians studied resurrection.   

But, Ron Wyatt said there was a CRYSTAL radiating a rainbow in the cave with the arc.  This crystal is probably important !!!!!!!  I don't know.  Maybe you and others can help with all this confusion. 

 /pull hair/   



 
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: SimPattyK on January 23, 2012, 05:09:59 PM
SlimpattyK said:  "If there is one HUGE reason behind Michael´s death hoax then for me it would be this:
He took a step aside, retreated the entertainer and King of Pop from the worlds stage in order to allow everyone to take a closer look on the MAN behind the myth and let his message be heard loud and clear and like this maybe enable and encourage people to follow his example.

Try to start with the man in the mirror, try to heal the world starting with your own little world, your environment, the people around you.
Try to make this world a better place. Make that change....make the difference!"

I love this.  Beautifully stated and from the heart.  Bless you.    bearhug

+1 ... Beautifully said Sim...and there's LOTS to love about 'the man'.

"He was an angel walking the planet"

IMO...he still is, and he hasn't 'let go of our hand'.  And he's probably hoping we won't let go of his either. 

I know I won't.

With L.O.V.E. always.

Uhm....it was actually me who said that  :lol:
Nevermind....glad you both like it
 bearhug
LMAO  :lol: :lol: When I first read that quote, I said to myself: "wow that's nice! But when and where did I say that?" lolll I was preparing to click on reply and ask hesoutofmylife just that. lol Then I scrolled the page down I saw your answers.
That was so funny! loll
Anyway, maryK, I love what you wrote and it's definitely something that I feel and I would write too! lol ;)
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: MaryK on January 23, 2012, 05:24:43 PM
@SimPattyK:  :lol:
Did you notice that hesoutofmylife made your nickname into "SlimPattyK"?
You definitely had your own personal hoax slimming cure  :mrgreen:
It´s nice to hear that you would write something like that, too.
Maybe I could be your ghostwriter, or you could be mine.
But before that I must catch up on some Elvis stuff, or else they might debunk us  lolol/
Sending you love
 bearhug
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: MJonmind on January 23, 2012, 06:02:56 PM
MaryK
Quote
@SimPattyK:  Did you notice that hesoutofmylife made your nickname into "SlimPattyK"?
I saw that too, and  :lol: !
That could be your new nicname - Slim!  And with your special pic collage work in the hoax:


Seems
Like
Impossible
Matches!
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: SimPattyK on January 23, 2012, 06:34:34 PM
TELEPATHIC THOUGHTS !! and / or ALIGNMENT OF HEARTS AND MINDS

^^ That's how I explain why I feel the same as you MaryK, on this and why most of times i feel/think the same as many other users here, such as WishingStar,  MjonMind (I LOVE you for your post on the previous page! you're always so loving and wise in everything you say!) the same as BetheChange, Sarahli... and the more I read you all, the more I'm starting to feel this... I can't explain it well to myself either, but it's an amazing feeling of ....'thought closeness", and now I after read what RK wrote on the previous page...I was again like wow!!! thank you for that post and for the research you made! Even though I didn't have time yet to do more research and I haven't thought at those wonderful parallels/connections you made, I must tell you you spoke my mind too when you talked about Michael following the Bible and using it not only in life , but also in his hoax! I've just written something similar in the topic "It's only a movie!" about this!
Oh my! I just can't wait to read the next SIGNS! This is gonna be mind blowing ! i feel it!
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: SimPattyK on January 23, 2012, 06:39:41 PM
MaryK
Quote
@SimPattyK:  Did you notice that hesoutofmylife made your nickname into "SlimPattyK"?
I saw that too, and  :lol: !
That could be your new nicname - Slim!  And with your special pic collage work in the hoax:

Seems
Like
Impossible
Matches!
lmao  :lol: :lol:
yeah I noticed and it made me smile too :lol:
FUNNY word-game , MjonMind!! :lol:

MaryK  :lol: yeah you should definitely learn some Elvis-hoax if you want to pose as me!! :lol:
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: hesouttamylife on January 23, 2012, 06:49:22 PM
 :oops: oh my. sorry  /white flag/ that’s so   (http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTuXLYkwNl7RQODhGQFDpir3oZ6ZbqSEd43GBc_OHMxInmYh2LJ)“embarasking"
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: SimPattyK on January 23, 2012, 07:32:36 PM
@hesouttamylife: oh don't feel sorry or embarrassed pls! You're "responsible" for one of the nicest funniest moments on the forum! I'm sure we'll all remember this later when this is all over! lolll :lol:

So, Slim says thank you and sends you hugs  bearhug
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: hesouttamylife on January 23, 2012, 07:47:20 PM
 lolol/ bearhug
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on January 23, 2012, 09:55:11 PM
Quote
17. A Signature Identifies Who Signed

Last, but certainly not least, the new covenant had to be signed with Christ’s literal blood; otherwise, there would be no way to verify the identity of Who signed. The main purpose of a signature is to verify the identity of the one who signed the contract. With handwritten ink, it’s difficult but possible to forge a signature and thereby give a false identity. With blood and DNA, it is even harder to falsify the identity.

With the blood that Ron Wyatt found on the mercy seat of the true ark, the identity is impossible to counterfeit. Normal humans have 46 chromosomes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromosome). However, the blood of Jesus from the ark has only 24 chromosomes (23 “X” from Mary, and 1 “Y” from God). This is very strong scientific evidence of the virgin birth (see Matthew 1:18-25; Luke 1:26-38; 3:23).

Also, after nearly 2,000 years, the blood is not dead! Jesus died, but His blood did not. And this fact is even mentioned in the Bible! “Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold … But [redeemed] with the precious [and not corruptible] blood of Christ …” (1 Peter 1:18,19).

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DKgpHLZs28&feature=related[/youtube]
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: BeTheChange on January 23, 2012, 10:39:31 PM
I just came across this vid...thought I'd share it.  It was posted in Aug 2009 and it's Ron defending himself against allegations. The jury is still out for me re: Ron...but what he says in this vid (about the Israeli's 'covering' it up) makes sense to me.  Whether what he claims is true or not (and hopefully we'll soon come to see the 'truth')...the discovery of the Ark will not be (IMO) all rainbows and butterflies...it could end up being a catalyst for war.  Material 'possession'/ownership has, unfortunately, become an obsession.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gid7C88I2t0[/youtube]

The 'thing' with Ron that I think is really 'tripping' me up/out...is that he just so happened to find everything he went looking for.  Stuff that people had searched forever for...and then this guy shows up...always at the right time, right place...and BAM  :lol: there it is.  Either he was truly led by God and had His help in locating these artifacts....or he's a scammer.  But I can't wrap my head around WHAT he gained by 'scamming'...other than ridicule, allegations, and even hatred from a whole host of people....during his life and still after his death.  Sure, it could've been for money...but did he die 'rich'?  And why is this all coming to 'light' now when it's been around for so many years?

Questions...questions...and more questions (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/ajbnzer/Smiley/thinking.gif)

With L.O.V.E. always.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: BeTheChange on January 23, 2012, 10:49:31 PM
TELEPATHIC THOUGHTS !! and / or ALIGNMENT OF HEARTS AND MINDS

^^ That's how I explain why I feel the same as you MaryK, on this and why most of times i feel/think the same as many other users here, such as WishingStar,  MjonMind (I LOVE you for your post on the previous page! you're always so loving and wise in everything you say!) the same as BetheChange, Sarahli... and the more I read you all, the more I'm starting to feel this... I can't explain it well to myself either, but it's an amazing feeling of ....'thought closeness", and now I after read what RK wrote on the previous page...I was again like wow!!! thank you for that post and for the research you made! Even though I didn't have time yet to do more research and I haven't thought at those wonderful parallels/connections you made, I must tell you you spoke my mind too when you talked about Michael following the Bible and using it not only in life , but also in his hoax! I've just written something similar in the topic "It's only a movie!" about this!
Oh my! I just can't wait to read the next SIGNS! This is gonna be mind blowing ! i feel it!

LMAO...'telepathic thoughts' are NOT allowed Sim (wasn't that part of the jury's instructions?  :lol:).  Since we're all the same person, according to the haters  :roll:...what you're feeling is probably just a side effect.  Nothing some little blue pills won't fix  :lol:

Love ya sis!  bearhug

With L.O.V.E. always.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Andrea on January 23, 2012, 11:08:36 PM
Quote
17. A Signature Identifies Who Signed

Last, but certainly not least, the new covenant had to be signed with Christ’s literal blood; otherwise, there would be no way to verify the identity of Who signed. The main purpose of a signature is to verify the identity of the one who signed the contract. With handwritten ink, it’s difficult but possible to forge a signature and thereby give a false identity. With blood and DNA, it is even harder to falsify the identity.

With the blood that Ron Wyatt found on the mercy seat of the true ark, the identity is impossible to counterfeit. Normal humans have 46 chromosomes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromosome). However, the blood of Jesus from the ark has only 24 chromosomes (23 “X” from Mary, and 1 “Y” from God). This is very strong scientific evidence of the virgin birth (see Matthew 1:18-25; Luke 1:26-38; 3:23).

Also, after nearly 2,000 years, the blood is not dead! Jesus died, but His blood did not. And this fact is even mentioned in the Bible! “Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold … But [redeemed] with the precious [and not corruptible] blood of Christ …” (1 Peter 1:18,19).

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DKgpHLZs28&feature=related[/youtube]

Thanks for the video Im_convinced!

The more I learn about Ron Wyatt, the more legitimate he appears to me.

@BTC - I don't think he's a scammer either.  I say "either" because it sounds to me like you talked yourself out of thinking that, lol.  If he's not a scammer then he's telling the truth.  If he's telling the truth, then God allowed and guided him, otherwise those discoveries would NOT have been made.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: BeTheChange on January 23, 2012, 11:37:26 PM
@BTC - I don't think he's a scammer either.  I say "either" because it sounds to me like you talked yourself out of thinking that, lol.  If he's not a scammer then he's telling the truth.  If he's telling the truth, then God allowed and guided him, otherwise those discoveries would NOT have been made.

@Andrea...I wish it was that easy to talk myself out of anything lol.  I've been watching some vids and reading some articles...I began with vids/articles 'against' him (those who don't support his claims).  And what I'm finding is that just like Ron couldn't/didn't 'prove' his findings, they couldn't/didn't 'refute' them either...not 'accepting' and 'refuting' are two different things.  So, if that's the case...then how can we be sure either way?  He could be telling the truth...just as much as he could be lying. 

If there's any 'internal talking' happening on my end lol...it's that everyone is innocent until proven guilty.  Seems to be a common thread in this adventure lol.

With L.O.V.E. always.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Heartsong on January 23, 2012, 11:39:02 PM
*ducks and runs out with  /white flag/ before the fireworks start*

(http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd397/Melinda2161/redflagsofquackery.jpg)
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: MJonmind on January 24, 2012, 01:34:43 AM
TELEPATHIC THOUGHTS !! and / or ALIGNMENT OF HEARTS AND MINDS

^^ That's how I explain why I feel the same as you MaryK, on this and why most of times i feel/think the same as many other users here, such as WishingStar,  MjonMind (I LOVE you for your post on the previous page! you're always so loving and wise in everything you say!) the same as BetheChange, Sarahli... and the more I read you all, the more I'm starting to feel this... I can't explain it well to myself either, but it's an amazing feeling of ....'thought closeness", and now I after read what RK wrote on the previous page...I was again like wow!!! thank you for that post and for the research you made! Even though I didn't have time yet to do more research and I haven't thought at those wonderful parallels/connections you made, I must tell you you spoke my mind too when you talked about Michael following the Bible and using it not only in life , but also in his hoax! I've just written something similar in the topic "It's only a movie!" about this!
Oh my! I just can't wait to read the next SIGNS! This is gonna be mind blowing ! i feel it!
Thank you for your kind words!  I somehow missed them before! :lol:



Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: jono on January 24, 2012, 03:57:21 AM
The 'thing' with Ron that I think is really 'tripping' me up/out...is that he just so happened to find everything he went looking for.  Stuff that people had searched forever for...and then this guy shows up...always at the right time, right place...and BAM  :lol: there it is.  Either he was truly led by God and had His help in locating these artifacts....or he's a scammer..

Exactly my thought! I guess it's either one or the other...

I really don't know where TS is going with this! I don't recognize his usual logic and proof criteria... TS is really taking some hefty steps of faith here!

What does he know that we don't, I wonder....  smiley_spider  /white flag/

I do understand the outcry from various atheists and "non believers" if this comes down to faith and faith alone in the end... However, I am quite sure that the best is yet to come!

 :D
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on January 24, 2012, 04:55:07 AM
The 'thing' with Ron that I think is really 'tripping' me up/out...is that he just so happened to find everything he went looking for.  Stuff that people had searched forever for...and then this guy shows up...always at the right time, right place...and BAM  :lol: there it is.  Either he was truly led by God and had His help in locating these artifacts....or he's a scammer..

just to play devils advocate and no pun intended here, but just want to point out that evil side can make man accomplish, discover and achieve feats too (as per what we have all read in the bible) - ...

here are some examples, to refresh our memories:

-magic practicing priests in pharaohs time were able to duplicate some of gods miracles
-satan used a snake to talk to eve
-star that guided astrologers to baby jesus - stopped by herod first (the person out to kill baby jesus) and (unsure if i should open this can of worms)
-people under demonic influence can heal the sick
-some who practice satanism can fortell the future.

satan uses supernatural schemes and tactics to overcome his victim. he is a supernatural being with great power to deceive (Job 1:7)

the bible also indicates the antichrist and false prophet will also perform miracles. and the bible also speaks about counterfit signs and wonders...

revelation16:13-14  And I saw three evil spirits that looked like frogs leap from the mouth of the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet. These miracle-working demons caused all the rulers of the world to gather for battle against the Lord on that great judgment day of God Almighty.

another interesting scripture is where Paul also wrote in the letter to the Corinthians that the miraculous gifts of God’s holy spirit would end. He said: “Whether there are gifts of prophesying, they will be done away with; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will be done away with.”—1 Corinthians 13:8

powers, knowlege of god (one on one) and miracles ceased. meaning that those who continue to do such things or posess such gifts MAY be doing so NOT under the influence of god but the influence of evil, WITH THE motive of distracting people away from god - or with out motive as they could be being used by the devil (as per bible)

does someone being 'led by god' as in this case constitue a 'miracle' or 'prophecying' or 'knowledge' - ??? hmm, dont know. dont have the answer... just saying and putting it out there. interesting question for those that believe in god and read the bible... (incl me)

please note I AM NOT SAYING THAT THIS IS THE CASE, in this particular instance...

however for those who are 'god believers / bible readers - really the two possible scenarious in this situation that have been posted in this thread, being "chosen/sent/directed/influenced by god" or "scammer/fraud/faker" are not absolute, as there is a third possible explanation.

again, not saying i believe this IS the reason, just saying that if we credit the bible for what it says, we have to do so in this instance also and the third explanation is just as plausible as any other.

not trying to be contrary or cause debate, but just thought it would be food for thought... by the way - I HAVE no opinion of this particular situation we are looking at (not yet anyway, thats why i am on the sideline til i understand it better and before i can not only choose but understand what i choose to beleive)



any opinions or civil comments regarding the notion of my post?



Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: jono on January 24, 2012, 05:48:58 AM
just to play devils advocate and no pun intended here, but just want to point out that evil side can make man accomplish, discover and achieve feats too (as per what we have all read in the bible) - ...

That is true, however... "The evil side" would never do anything that bears witness of Jesus and his victory over evil...
If what Wyatt is saying is true, I can't imagine any better testimony of the fulfillment of Jesus' ministry!

“This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God..” - 1 John 4:2

Remember the supposed 24 chromosomes?
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on January 24, 2012, 06:34:38 AM
true that it gives testimony to jesus - but what if people are putting faith in a false ark instead of wroshiping god...

again, not saying i believe this. just playing devils advocate to consider all possibles.

i am perplexed by all this and dont know where its going but thats ok, because for me their are only three known certainties that i care about 1) sanctification of gods name, 2) salvation through jesus and 3) MJ lives ;)


anyways... as i said, sitting on the sideline as i need to learn more and understand it all better.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on January 24, 2012, 06:47:39 AM
here is an additional tid-bit of information (not posting this in relation to my prev post by the way - more just a random bit of ark info)

solomon formed “a marriage alliance with Pharaoh the king of egypt and [took] pharaoh’s daughter and [brought] her to the city of david.” (1 kings. 3:1) did this egyptian woman imitate ruth by taking up true worship? nothing indicates that she did so. rather, in time solomon built a house for her (and perhaps her egyptian maids) outside the city of david. why? the scriptures say that he did so because it was not fitting for a false worshipper to dwell near the ark of the covenant.—2 Chron. 8:11.


EDIT in the bible, uzzah was also killed instantly for touching the ark as he didnt have a right. (story goes, the ark was in transit and it looked like it was going to fall) only priests were allowed to touch it. uzzah was presumptuous and reached out to save the ark as was instantly killed and made a lesson of...

2 Samuel 6:3-8 And they set the ark of God upon a new cart, and brought it out of the house of Abinadab that was in Gibeah: and Uzzah and Ahio, the sons of Abinadab, drave the new cart. And they brought it out of the house of Abinadab which was at Gibeah, accompanying the ark of God: and Ahio went before the ark. And David and all the house of Israel played before the LORD on all manner of instruments made of fir wood, even on harps, and on psalteries, and on timbrels, and on cornets, and on cymbals. And when they came to Nachon's threshing floor, Uzzah put forth his hand to the ark of God, and took hold of it; for the oxen shook it. And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Uzzah; and God smote him there for his error; and there he died by the ark of God. And David was displeased, because the LORD had made a breach upon Uzzah: and he called the name of the place Perezuzzah("breach of Uzzah") to this day.
 
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: jono on January 24, 2012, 06:49:21 AM
i am perplexed by all this and dont know where its going but thats ok, because for me their are only three known certainties that i care about 1) sanctification of gods name, 2) salvation through jesus and 3) MJ lives ;)

+1  ;)
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: bindupbrokenhearted on January 24, 2012, 09:03:42 AM
To quote TS:

Quote
By now you’ve probably learned not to trust what the media tells you about the Ark of the Covenant. In fact, don’t trust what anybody tells you about it! You can and should be open to evidence, which will help you distinguish the true from the false; but don’t trust the source of the evidence, trust only in the evidence itself. “The truth will prevail!” For those who are not prejudice, and are willing to examine the evidence carefully, the true Ark will stand out in striking contrast to any and all fake arks. In fact, did you know that the number seven is one of the main keys to unlock the mystery of the true Ark? Did you know that seven will be God’s most important number in the final battle between good and evil?

Anyways, I am taking a break from the forums for a bit...hopefully I will be back soon

 bearhug all
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: ShyBleuEyes on January 24, 2012, 09:21:30 AM
happy that i saw your post Aussie, and i totally agree with you, i'm so confused lately more than ever......  most of TS latest post.
I still do strongly believe TS is speaking for Michael, so i want to see how this posts would develop futher, i think TS or MJ has a purpose for this post besides  the religion part. There's more to come!
This is what i believe and i'm feeling comfortable with this, it surely feels good to know MIchael
reaching out to us. i do feel a litlle ashamed or guilt for saying "US"because i know how much i wanted or tryed for contributing to the hoax Family, i can't measure with you all.i hope Maybe some day i can do something in return.

LOVE to you all, and thank you

TS i'm looking forward to see the other Signs
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: BeTheChange on January 24, 2012, 10:21:23 AM
@TS...I don't think I've thanked you here for your lastest post (I did on the other site)...but just wanted to say here that I appreciate the time and effort you put into the post.  Was that the project you were working on...or perhaps a part of it?  Anyhow..I thank you.

I've been 'noticing' certain reactions among those of us who've read your post...it seems to be a wide spectrum of 'reaction'.  We've had members who read it and decided it was time to run lol....some read it, appreciate it, are thinking about it but don't know what to say (yet anyway) so they don't post....while others read it and do feel comfortable sharing their thoughts on it, either 'for' or 'against' it.  I'm somewhere between confusion and seeking to understand.  Did you foresee these reactions?  Based on your intelligence level...you had to.  You had to know it was gonna be like going from from 0 to 77...on the 'heaviness' scale.  And you had to know, based on the membership 'make-up', that some members would leave after reading it.  Yet, you went with it anyway.  So I'm thinking either the herd is intentionally being thinned....or the info/purpose/big picture is more important than the numbers.  I believe, however, that even those who ran...even those who had some not-so-nice things to say...are still reading and trying to understand.

We just want to know the 'truth'...whatever it is...and when MJ asked for our patience, he wasn't joking!  If this is all a test of 'faith', then a test of patience is a given.  And I think, overall, we've been patient...had some tantrums here and there (also to be expected)...but we've stuck around...and are still here.  My faith in Mike leads me to believe that you, Front and Back are an extension of him...no matter who you are or how many of 'you' there is.  So I firmly believe that these 'messages' are coming from him.  They could just as easily be coming from some sinister evil force that has completely mag-funked my mind  :?...but I don't 'feel' evilness in you or Front or Back. ..and never have.  However, even with all the faith I have in Mike, and it's a lot...I have even more faith in God....and that's powerful.  Cause even IF 'you' aren't speaking for Mike (which would be evil...and again, I don't 'feel' it)....but even IF, my faith in God leads me to believe that He will open my eyes soon enough.  Because 'Truth Will Prevail = Time' is true.  As one of 'you' once said, 'time' in this case IS 'our' friend....because IT has helped 'you' prove yourself...as either speaking for Mike or as someone who is a highly intelligent manipulator lol.  Either way, I say bring it  ;)

As for the current topic...I think most of us are truly trying to understand.  I fully understand that perhaps there is a 'time frame' that 'you' must adhere to on your end...and that may 'limit' your willingness/ability to help us understand more right now.  I 'get' that.  Just hoping that 'you' have a good 'sense' about that 'guiding light in times of darkness' from your side of the looking glass lol.  On this side, it's as if a 'cloud' just floated over the bright light that's been growing and growing over time....and it's somewhat 'clouding' my view lol.  Based on some members' posts and some convo's I've had...a lot of us are looking at the same sky right now, some just have bigger clouds than others.

When all is said and done....I do trust in 'you' (if I'm 'wrong'...I'm FAR from knowing it).  I trust that the 'light' will come when 'you' feel it is needed.  In the meantime, I'll keep trying to rid the cloud on my own...

(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTXZ0mQzfXnTOqQD8IHi8nMYjwwojh_UnPXgWL5OD1-EcupazE3OA)

With L.O.V.E. always.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: RK on January 24, 2012, 10:31:09 AM
Think this could be a connection?
The bloody shirt left behind at Carolwood hidden away in a closet
and the Blood of Jesus left behind on the mercy seat?
We've never had a dot to connect to the blood stained shirt before.

I also can't see TS using something as holy and precious as the Blood of Jesus to test people with. Just can't get my head around that . The blood of Christ is something not to be trivialized or played with. So I believe he is sincere in what he has presented.  
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: GINAFELICIA on January 24, 2012, 11:02:53 AM
I've printed all your post TS and will read it again, on paper, with an open mind, later.
When are you going to tell us who you are bow/ bow/ bow/ ??
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: BeTheChange on January 24, 2012, 11:19:19 AM
I've printed all your post TS and will read it again, on paper, with an open mind, later.
When are you going to tell us who you are bow/ bow/ bow/ ??

God bless you Gina...you ALWAYS manage to make me smile or laugh  :lol:

I'm glad you are here with us  bearhug

With L.O.V.E. always.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: curls on January 24, 2012, 11:38:22 AM
Did TS actually say he is The Sign, I don't think so, so have we just assumed that? Is this his own writing or is he just redirecting to someone else's work? Does it even matter? Haha, I don't know!  I'm one of those reading along and watching to see where this is all leading.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: bec on January 24, 2012, 11:54:53 AM
TS signed the $999 challenge (SCARED YET) as 'The Sign'.

Quote
Meanwhile, anyone can promote this $999 reward through any method that you want.  But please do NOT reference http://http://www.ThisIsAlsoIt.com for the $999 reward, because sooner or later it will probably get redirected away from this post.  Instead, use http://http://www.ElvisAndMJ.com for the $999 reward (and I will ask Mo & Souza to put a link from that page to this post).

... and now it’s Time for me to Sign,

The Sign
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=14058.msg234443#msg234443
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: BeTheChange on January 24, 2012, 12:00:06 PM
Did TS actually say he is The Sign, I don't think so, so have we just assumed that? Is this his own writing or is he just redirecting to someone else's work? Does it even matter? Haha, I don't know!  I'm one of those reading along and watching to see where this is all leading.

Great point curls...and like you, I have no clue lol.  One 'difference' I did notice....although it probably means nothing at all...is that whenever TS wrote about the Ark in the past, he always capitalized both Ark and Covenant (likewise, he always capitalizes words like God, Jesus, He/His (when speaking of God or Jesus), etc).  The Sign did not capitalize either the word Ark or Covenant...except when these words were used in titles/subtitles.  Again, it could mean nothing at all...or it could be a 'difference' in writing styles of two individuals.

Whether this matters or not, I also have no clue lol.

@bec...another great point.  Now was it TS that signed The Sign in that post...or did The Sign write that post under the username TS?  :?  I tend to think that TS = The Sign...same person.  But who knows?  All I know that is TS has 'linked' himself to The Sign...and to Front, and to Back, and to Mike lol.

With L.O.V.E. always.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: BeTheChange on January 24, 2012, 12:10:46 PM
Just remembered something Front wrote awhile back (on Sept 15):

Quote
There are some extremely insightful and well-thought out posts by several members here, based on their examinations & analyses----> connecting the dots from past to present…..THEN and NOW.  In order to move forward and allow current "unknowns" to surface, I highly suggest we return to those posts and continue to reflect upon those observations. I have a feeling that in doing so will lead to a deeper understanding as future events come to light. And if it doesn't, then I guess I'll just have to return this Magic 8 Ball.

Maybe The Sign was 'a current unknown' that Front was talking about.  If that's the case, we must be doing something right because he's surfaced  :lol:

With L.O.V.E. always.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: curls on January 24, 2012, 01:52:21 PM
TS signed the $999 challenge (SCARED YET) as 'The Sign'.

Quote
Meanwhile, anyone can promote this $999 reward through any method that you want.  But please do NOT reference http://http://www.ThisIsAlsoIt.com for the $999 reward, because sooner or later it will probably get redirected away from this post.  Instead, use http://http://www.ElvisAndMJ.com for the $999 reward (and I will ask Mo & Souza to put a link from that page to this post).

... and now it’s Time for me to Sign,

The Sign
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=14058.msg234443#msg234443

Ah yes, thanks for reminding me about that Bec.  Guess he was paving the way back then.

@BeTheChange, thanks for your comments too!
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Sarahli on January 24, 2012, 02:34:28 PM
There is a lot to take in and reflect on. I agree that this is only the 1st Sign, so we don't have the entire picture yet. I'm not sure what to make of Ron Wyatt as of now, but with time I will look into it more. I thank everyone for posting useful videos, and your thoughts and reflections are helping me to understand this better.  It’s really great to have everyone’s perspectives. Of course let us ask God to guide us always.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: ~Souza~ on January 24, 2012, 02:40:56 PM
The 'thing' with Ron that I think is really 'tripping' me up/out...is that he just so happened to find everything he went looking for.  Stuff that people had searched forever for...and then this guy shows up...always at the right time, right place...and BAM  :lol: there it is.  Either he was truly led by God and had His help in locating these artifacts....or he's a scammer..

just to play devils advocate and no pun intended here, but just want to point out that evil side can make man accomplish, discover and achieve feats too (as per what we have all read in the bible) - ...

here are some examples, to refresh our memories:

-magic practicing priests in pharaohs time were able to duplicate some of gods miracles
-satan used a snake to talk to eve
-star that guided astrologers to baby jesus - stopped by herod first (the person out to kill baby jesus) and (unsure if i should open this can of worms)
-people under demonic influence can heal the sick
-some who practice satanism can fortell the future.

satan uses supernatural schemes and tactics to overcome his victim. he is a supernatural being with great power to deceive (Job 1:7)

the bible also indicates the antichrist and false prophet will also perform miracles. and the bible also speaks about counterfit signs and wonders...

revelation16:13-14  And I saw three evil spirits that looked like frogs leap from the mouth of the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet. These miracle-working demons caused all the rulers of the world to gather for battle against the Lord on that great judgment day of God Almighty.

another interesting scripture is where Paul also wrote in the letter to the Corinthians that the miraculous gifts of God’s holy spirit would end. He said: “Whether there are gifts of prophesying, they will be done away with; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will be done away with.”—1 Corinthians 13:8

powers, knowlege of god (one on one) and miracles ceased. meaning that those who continue to do such things or posess such gifts MAY be doing so NOT under the influence of god but the influence of evil, WITH THE motive of distracting people away from god - or with out motive as they could be being used by the devil (as per bible)

does someone being 'led by god' as in this case constitue a 'miracle' or 'prophecying' or 'knowledge' - ??? hmm, dont know. dont have the answer... just saying and putting it out there. interesting question for those that believe in god and read the bible... (incl me)

please note I AM NOT SAYING THAT THIS IS THE CASE, in this particular instance...

however for those who are 'god believers / bible readers - really the two possible scenarious in this situation that have been posted in this thread, being "chosen/sent/directed/influenced by god" or "scammer/fraud/faker" are not absolute, as there is a third possible explanation.

again, not saying i believe this IS the reason, just saying that if we credit the bible for what it says, we have to do so in this instance also and the third explanation is just as plausible as any other.

not trying to be contrary or cause debate, but just thought it would be food for thought... by the way - I HAVE no opinion of this particular situation we are looking at (not yet anyway, thats why i am on the sideline til i understand it better and before i can not only choose but understand what i choose to beleive)



any opinions or civil comments regarding the notion of my post?

True about false prophets, but I do have comments on what you quoted.

Quote
"-people under demonic influence can heal the sick"

Not true. Only God can truly heal, or those appointed by Him (like the disciples). Satan only destroys. Do you have scriptural reference for this statement?

Quote
"-some who practice satanism can fortell the future."

Same for this: do you have scriptural reference?

Quote
"satan uses supernatural schemes and tactics to overcome his victim. he is a supernatural being with great power to deceive (Job 1:7)"

He is already doing that for hundreds of years. People throwing away God's Holy Sabbath as if it's not important and worshipping Sunday and 'strange gods'. The catholic church is the worst, but there are flaws in every denomination. Some examples:

"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."
Matthew 5:17-19

This verse CLEARLY states that ALL ten commandments should be kept, even the ones that might seem unimportant to people, till heaven and earth pass. We all know THAT didn't happen yet, lol. Yet the catholics are very much breaking a lot of them:

"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments."

So the catholics do this and break the second commandment:

(http://ivarfjeld.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/prostrate-to-pope.jpg)

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_JRkgseRT7NY/S-L0Fmc_XfI/AAAAAAAAB04/ECFgBP_KQOk/s1600/cardinal+levada+kissing+pope+benedict+xvi+bowing+obedience+prostrate+catholic+church+sexual+abuse+collusion+cover-up+hypocrisy+liar+vatican+cdf.jpg)

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-JN0HHwDdLvI/Tk88ci7yjSI/AAAAAAAAP3Q/a42Esurotvg/s700/Queen_bow_Pope.jpg)


And they worship this:

(http://www.abbaswatchman.com/Sun%20Worship%20Catholic%20picture%203.jpg)

(http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Roman%20Catholicism/mary_devil_worship.jpg)

(http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID9052/images/Fr__V_at_Altar.jpg)

But some probably aren't even aware, because the catholic church is trying to get rid of the second commandment: http://www.catholicbible101.com/thetencommandments.htm


Oh and they worship this too, which in my opinion is breaking the first commandment as well, since the papacy claims it can play God, forgive sins, change God's Holy Laws etc:

(http://static5.businessinsider.com/image/4bd6cc627f8b9aa225570000/pope.jpg)


Then they work on Saturday or mown the lawn, and worship SUNday, breaking the fourth commandment.

(http://derek4messiah.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/1sunday29.gif)

Oh and for teaching false doctrine they break of course also the ninth commandment. Many are also breaking the 7th and the 10th, but I shall not go into that. So Satan is doing a VERY good job deceiving MILLIONS of catholics already.

The Jehova's Witnesses are doing a better job, but they somewhere forgot about the fourth commandment, because to them any day can be holy. Not true, only the Sabbath (seventh day) is holy, not just every day, or no day at all. By going door to door, teaching this (and more) false doctrines, they are also breaking the ninth.

The Jews seem have them all ten in order, but they have a little problem: they don't accept Jesus as their saviour which also makes them break the ninth every time they teach some one their religious beliefs.

I could go on and on, but you get my point. Satan IS already deceiving for hundreds or even thousands of years (Adam/Eve/Apple anyone?).


Quote
"the bible also indicates the antichrist and false prophet will also perform miracles. and the bible also speaks about counterfit signs and wonders...

revelation16:13-14  And I saw three evil spirits that looked like frogs leap from the mouth of the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet. These miracle-working demons caused all the rulers of the world to gather for battle against the Lord on that great judgment day of God Almighty."

This verse refers to the beasts from Revelation 13 (5th and 6th beasts) and Revelation 17 (8th beast, which is the same as the 5th):

"And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority." (Revelation 13:1-2)


"And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon [FALSE PROPHET]. And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him [IMAGE OF FORMER BEAST], and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed." (Revelation 13:11-12)


"So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is." (Revelation 17:3-6)


So the false prophet mentioned in the verse you qouted from Revelation 16, is actually a beast (world power, USA), the sixth one that is the image of the fifth/eight beast (Vatican). Ron was not a world power, far from it. He might have been an American, but if he would have been a false prophet for the image of the beasts, we all would have know him and his discoveries. But hardly anyone does: he is ridiculed and attacked and his discoveries are mocked and done away with. Also, the false prophet in Revelation 16 deceives people during the plagues, AFTER the mark of the beast. Thus this verse can in no way refer to Ron Wyatt. Plus I agree with jono about 1 John 4:2.


Quote
"another interesting scripture is where Paul also wrote in the letter to the Corinthians that the miraculous gifts of God’s holy spirit would end. He said: “Whether there are gifts of prophesying, they will be done away with; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will be done away with.”—1 Corinthians 13:8

powers, knowlege of god (one on one) and miracles ceased. meaning that those who continue to do such things or posess such gifts MAY be doing so NOT under the influence of god but the influence of evil, WITH THE motive of distracting people away from god - or with out motive as they could be being used by the devil (as per bible)

does someone being 'led by god' as in this case constitue a 'miracle' or 'prophecying' or 'knowledge' - ??? hmm, dont know. dont have the answer... just saying and putting it out there. interesting question for those that believe in god and read the bible... (incl me)"

Paul wrote this nearly 2000 years ago and he is talking about the time after Christ until the end of the 1335 days of Daniel 12. There will be no more miracles, no more prophets, no more scriptural knowledge (because Satan is doing his best to deceive the whole world):

"But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book [NO UNDERSTANDING], even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased [KNOWLEDGE WILL RETURN]. Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river. And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders [WHEN WILL THERE BE UNDERSTANDING OF THIS PROPHECY]? And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half [3.5 YEARS ARE 1260 DAYS, WHICH IN BIBLE PROPHECY MEANS 1260 YEARS, BUT NO BEGINNING OR END IS GIVEN] ; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished. And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand. And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up [STARTING POINT GIVEN (PAPACY), SAME ENDING POINT], there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days [BECAUSE THESE 'WONDERS' WIL END THEN]."
Daniel 12:8-13

Those who did the math on Daniel know that these 1335 years are passed already about 150+ years ago. Why are those blessed who wait? Because that is when understanding of the scriptures returned; the book of Daniel was no longer sealed. And what happens at the time of the end: knowledge shall INCREASE so that the truth can prevail. So actually that verse of Paul you quoted verifies Ron and his discoveries even more. Paul was referring to the years BEFORE the end of the time prophecy in Daniel.

Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: paula-c on January 24, 2012, 03:25:46 PM
Jesuits Cambodia

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-cKCC1CAkfnY/TgDj1XSodpI/AAAAAAAAAQo/ldc9e_-YoFk/s1600/Untitled-827.jpg)














 :?













Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: BeTheChange on January 24, 2012, 03:38:58 PM
Just as I am grateful for members who are good with numbers, I am also really grateful for the Bible scholars here (thanks Souza, Aussie and all others).  It's really great to be able to read the different perspectives.

As for the 'numbers' mentioned in Daniel (1260 & 1375) and the hoax...I wonder if any of these dates have any importance (assuming I calculated them right...and assuming they can somehow be applied at all):

Wednesday December 5th, 2012 (1260 days (incl) since June 25th, 2009)
Saturday March 30th, 2013 (1375 days (incl) from June 25th, 2009)

I know...I'm probably stretching it lol.

With L.O.V.E. always.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: MJonmind on January 24, 2012, 04:11:58 PM
I would say that God uses the godly and ungodly for His purposes.  I love this verse:
Revelation 17:17 (ASV)

Quote
17 For God did put in their hearts to do his mind, and to come to one mind, and to give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God should be accomplished.

In my own searches I came to the conclusion that there were some truths in each of the Bible-based faith groups. The Seventh Day Adventists biggest theme and relating to end-times is the Sabbath versus Sunday worship, and scripturally this is very sound. Even though the New Testament covenant is grace and not under the law, we don't just throw away living by the Ten Commandments though we do not have to carry out the extensive laws around sacrifice and ceremonial cleansing, etc. The honoring the Sabbath is one of the 10, along with honoring God, parents, not stealing or murdering. Almost no one is keeping the Sabbath as required, except SDA, Black Hebrew Israelite groups, and Messianic Jewish groups. This is where the quagmire can begin, of nitpicking about who's in and who's not.  The standard joke in churches is about getting to heaven and tip-toeing past a certain room because a certain faith group thinks they're the only ones that made it to heaven.

I know some posters talked about TS's new language of exclusivity that wasn't there before--you're either on Michael's side or on the devil's side. Scary stuff. Yet Michael sang in "All in your name", that there is one religion of love.  I've never sensed this 2 sides for battle in Michael's words before. He simply said he wanted to heal the world, bring love, unite all races in love. Well this does none of that. That's why I believe that there has got to be more coming in the next signs that will clarify this divisive tone coming across, regardless of the accuracy of the information he is giving.

I do believe in the Bible, that God the Creator has chosen to speak through it, albeit with a little tongue-in-cheek. Somehow the script of Revelation will be fulfilled, but in what way is hard to decipher. The words--hoax within a hoax within a hoax...come to mind.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: melody on January 24, 2012, 04:29:17 PM

Which brings me to Souza's suggestion from her latest blog that we should go back and re-examine  some of the early hoax info with the biblical perspective in mind this time.
I would like to sift through the memorial again with this thought in mind, to see what we have missed from 2009. Would anyone care to join in with me?



Do you have a thread opened up somewhere? I'll give it a go.

But aside from the memorial, I had a fortuitous encounter with a Jehovah's Witness today and they handed me this month's edition of "The Watchtower", lo and behold, I came across another biblical connection to the hoax:

Quote from: The Watchtower Announcing Jehovah's Kingdom pg 28
Interestingly, God’s personal name is concealed in the original Hebrew text by means of acrostics, wherein the phrasing appears to have been arranged deliberately so that the first or the last letters of successive words spell out God’s name.—Esther 1:20, footnote.

Kind of like what we were doing with the TMZ articles and of course TS' updates ("Silencing the Critics, And $999 REwarD??? You bET")




There was also an article ("Where Frontiers Mean Nothing" pg 12-15) speaking against prejudice, how barriers between people can be bridged, which reminded me of one of TS' very first posts speaking against prejudice:

Quote from: TS
If anyone continues to oppose TIAI, without reading these 9 parts: please remind them that MJ said “prejudice is ignorance”; and this includes more than just racial prejudice. Pre-jud-ice means to be pre-judge-ish, to judge prematurely. If someone has read all 9 parts, and still wants to oppose TIAI, that is fine; but if anyone makes objections blindly in the dark, they are prejudice. Albert Einstein said: “Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance.”

And another article that starts with "Hold my hand" (lol) on pg 18

Maybe those last two are a bit of a stretch, but I couldn't help it.   ;))
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: GINAFELICIA on January 24, 2012, 04:35:40 PM
Souza you think we should work on Sundays and worship the Saturdays? Like Adventists?
My next question is does it really matter, as long as each seventh day we do not work? Could be any day, as long as it's the seventh in a row, the essence counts, not the name of that day....well, this is just a thought, I fail to properly keep the seventh day because of many reasons.
And anyway, how do we know if our calendars are accurate? How can we be sure the Saturdays nowadays are in accordance with the calendars from  2000 years ago?
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: MJonmind on January 24, 2012, 04:37:11 PM
Just something that's been coming to my mind.  You know the Dome project, and of course it's just the 4 film sets for TII and originally supposedly for MJ's 02 concerts.


Ron Wyatt's discovery of the ark is supposedly under Golgotha hill where Jesus was crucified. This is the typical site thought to be it, that looks like a skull (scripture mentions 'place of the scull') from a distance. It is not far from the Dome of the Rock where Solomon's temple is thought to have been, but is now Islam's holy site.  Front posted the interesting pics of what looked like the Dome possibly from the inside, as well as on the 'Michael' cover it is seen to be burning.  I wonder if these are all advance clues relating to end-times, the locating of the Ark of the Covanent, the trouble that will usher in.  In one video of Ron Wyatt defending why the Israeli officials denied that they had given him a permit to dig, Ron just said that if the info got into the wrong hands, they would want to blow up the Dome to start building the temple, ushering in a major war (Armageddon?).  Notice also that Jesus is speaking Michael's words.


(http://www.ebibleteacher.com/sites/default/files/images/1/golgotha.jpg)


(http://users.skynet.be/NightGem/gallery/amiga_illusion.gif)


(http://www.liberalbaptistrev.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Pixton_Comic_Jesus_Comics_Michael_Jackson_quote_1_by_Rev__Dr__Chris_Ayers-1.jpg)

My post about this:
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=5167.msg375903#msg375903 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=5167.msg375903#msg375903)


'Michael' cover art:
http://www.showbiz411.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/mural3.jpg (http://www.showbiz411.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/mural3.jpg)
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: ~Souza~ on January 24, 2012, 04:49:59 PM
Souza you think we should work on Sundays and worship the Saturdays? Like Adventists?
My next question is does it really matter, as long as each seventh day we do not work? Could be any day, as long as it's the seventh in a row, the essence counts, not the name of that day....well, this is just a thought, I fail to properly keep the seventh day because of many reasons.
And anyway, how do we know if our calendars are accurate? How can we be sure the Saturdays nowadays are in accordance with the calendars from  2000 years ago?

Oh hey, I am not telling you what to do Gina, it's up to yourself always. I know I am looking for work now where I CAN keep the seventh day after what I have learned. And it's not only the adventists sho keep the Sabbath, it's also the Jews and they have done so for thousands of years.

It's 100% certain that the weekly cycle has never changed. I am doing a study about the Sabbath for my JW friend who keeps all ten NINE commandments, lol, so I will quote from what I have on the Sabbath definition:


Definition of the Sabbath - The seventh day

“Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.”
 ~Genesis 2:1-3


Satan did a good job deceiving the whole world, because if you ask a hundred people in the street which day of the week is the seventh and last day, the majority will tell you that it’s Sunday. Saturday and Sunday form the weekend, and on Sunday you go to church because it’s the ‘Lord’s Day’. But here is lesson number one: the majority is usually wrong!

Let’s examine the facts to establish which day the Sabbath (day of rest) is before moving on with this study:


A quick online search

Encyclopædia Britannica Online
Sunday      : “first day of the week”
Saturday           : “seventh day of the week.”

Wikipedia:
Sunday      : “According to the Hebrew calendars, traditional Christian calendars, Sunday is literally the "first day" of the week. According to the International   
                           Organization for Standardization ISO 8601 Sunday is the seventh and last day of the week.”
Saturday           : “the last (seventh) day of the week on many calendars and in conventions that consider the week as beginning on Sunday, or the sixth day of 
                           the week according to international standard ISO 8601 which was first published in 1988.”

Note that ISO 8601 was published in 1988, making Sunday the last (seventh) day of the week because that form is popular in manufacturing industries, with Monday being the first working day. The US system still has weeks from Sunday through Saturday, with Saturday being the seventh day of the week {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601}. We know one thing with absolute certainty: Genesis was written way before 1988, which tells us that the seventh day mentioned in Genesis, referred to Saturday.


Hebrew Calendar

Moses, the author of Genesis, clearly kept the Hebrew calendar and was not bothered by any international standards, and the Hebrew calendar is very clear on which day is the seventh day:

Yom Rishon    - "first day"            - Sunday
Yom Sheni    - "second day"         - Monday
Yom Shlishi    - "third day"            - Tuesday
Yom Reviʻi    - "fourth day"            - Wednesday
Yom Chamishi    - "fifth day"            - Thursday
Yom Shishi    - "sixth day"            - Friday
Yom Shabbat    - "Sabbath day"   - Saturday

Orthodox Jews have kept the Sabbath every week for thousands of years, there is no way they would skip or miss a day accidently somewhere.

Also, Jesus knew which day was the Sabbath, and we have the Julian/Gregorian calendar records from those days. The only change from the Gregorian calendar was skipping days of the month, but not days of the week. The last day of the Julian calendar was Thursday, October 4, 1582 and this was followed by the first day of the Gregorian calendar, Friday, October 15, 1582 (the cycle of weekdays was not affected). 

Also, astronomers have kept an accurate record of time. And theirs is one of the most accurate there is. They tell us that if all records of time should suddenly be lost, the astronomers could rediscover time from the mathematics of the stars in their motions.

“And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years
~Genesis 1:14


Statements by noted astronomers:

"The week has been followed for thousands of years and therefore has been hallowed by immemorial use." 
~Anders Donner

"I have always hesitated to suggest breaking the continuity of the week, which without a doubt is the most ancient scientific institution bequeathed to us by antiquity." 
~Edouard Baillaud

“I can only state that in connection with the proposed simplification of the calendar, we have had occasion to investigate the results of the works of specialists in chronology and we have never found one of them that has ever had the slightest doubt the continuity of the weekly cycle since long before the Christian era. There has been no change in our calendar in past centuries that has affected in any way the cycle of the week." 
~James Robertson

"The week of seven days has been in use ever since the days of the Mosaic dispensation and we have no reason for supposing that any irregularities have existed in the succession of weeks and their days from that time to the present." 
~Dr. W.W. Campbell

"The continuity of the week has crossed the centuries and all known calendars, still intact."
~Professor D. Eginitis



Jesus was crucified on Friday

“This man went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid. And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on. And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid. And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.”
~Luke 23:52-56


This verse clearly tells us that Jesus was crucified on the ‘day of preparation’ for the Sabbath (Friday), with the Sabbath being the very next day. They rested on the Sabbath (Saturday) and found the tomb to be empty on the first day of the week (Sunday), as we can read in the very next chapter:

“Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them. And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre. And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus.”
~Luke 24:1-3


Many Christians observe Sunday as a day for worship (based on misunderstood scriptures) as a memorial for Jesus’ RESURRECTION and therefore they acknowledge that the actual Sabbath is NOT on Sunday, but one day BEFORE Sunday as we can clearly see in Luke 23:52-56 and Luke 24:1-3, quoted above.


Saturday in 105 languages is a cognate of "Sabbath"

Might there still be any doubt whether or not the Sabbath or seventh day is Saturday, please know that in 105 languages, the name for Saturday is a cognate of "Sabbath". A few examples are:

Czech/Slovak/Polish/Slovene   : sobota
Russian                    : subbota
Serbian/Ukrainian              : subota
Italian                    : sabato
Spanish/Portuguese      : sábado
Romanian                         : sâmbătă


Annual feast Sabbaths vs. weekly Sabbath

You can find the most complete description of the observance of the weekly and yearly Sabbaths in Leviticus 23. The weekly Sabbath is described first, then the yearly Sabbaths.


Weekly Sabbath

“Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.”
~Leviticus 23:3


The correct practice for all Sabbaths is a day of rest from daily work. The fourth commandment clearly indicates the concept of no work on the weekly Sabbath:

“Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: “
~Exodus 20:8-10



Annual Sabbaths

The seven annual Sabbaths are:

1.   First day of Unleavened Bread
“And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread. In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein. “
~Leviticus 23:6-7


2.   Seventh day of Unleavened Bread
“in the seventh day is an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.”
~Leviticus 23:8


3.   Pentecost: fiftieth day after wave sheaf offering
“And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete: Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days;”
~Leviticus 23:15-16

“And ye shall proclaim on the selfsame day, that it may be an holy convocation unto you: ye shall do no servile work therein: it shall be a statute for ever in all your dwellings throughout your generations.”
~Leviticus 23:21


4.   Trumpets
“In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation. Ye shall do no servile work therein: “
~Leviticus 23:24-25


5.   Atonement
“Also on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement: it shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD. And ye shall do no work in that same day: for it is a day of atonement, to make an atonement for you before the LORD your God. “
~Leviticus 23:27-28


6.   First day of Tabernacles
“The fifteenth day of this seventh month shall be the feast of tabernacles for seven days unto the LORD. On the first day shall be an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.”
~Leviticus 23:34-35


7.   Eighth Day of Tabernacles
“On the eighth day shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD: it is a solemn assembly; and ye shall do no servile work therein.”
~Leviticus 23:36


“These are the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD, a burnt offering, and a meat offering, a sacrifice, and drink offerings, every thing upon his day: BESIDE [separate from] the sabbaths of the LORD, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your freewill offerings, which ye give unto the LORD.”
~Leviticus 23:37,38



It is important to know that there is a clear distinction between the weekly Sabbath and the annual Sabbath. The weekly Sabbath is one of the Ten Commandments; the annual Sabbaths were additional laws which were part of the old covenant that God made with the Israelites. There is no scriptural evidence that these annual Sabbaths existed before Mount Sinai, there is overwhelming scriptural evidence that the Ten Commandments (INCLUDING the fourth) existed before Mount Sinai.


Sunset to sunset

There has been some dispute about whether the Biblical days started at sunset or at sunrise, yet the Bible gives more than enough evidence that the day starts at sunset:
 
“It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath.”
~Leviticus 23:32


“And it came to pass, that when the gates of Jerusalem began to be dark before the sabbath, I commanded that the gates should be shut, and charged that they should not be opened till after the sabbath: and some of my servants set I at the gates, that there should no burden be brought in on the sabbath day.”
~Nehemiah 13:19

“What man soever of the seed of Aaron is a leper, or hath a running issue; he shall not eat of the holy things, until he be clean. And whoso toucheth any thing that is unclean by the dead, or a man whose seed goeth from him; Or whosoever toucheth any creeping thing, whereby he may be made unclean, or a man of whom he may take uncleanness, whatsoever uncleanness he hath; The soul which hath touched any such shall be unclean until even, and shall not eat of the holy things, unless he wash his flesh with water. And when the sun is down, he shall be clean, and shall afterward eat of the holy things; because it is his food.”
~ Leviticus 22:4-7

“And came down to Capernaum, a city of Galilee, and taught them on the sabbath days.[…] Now when the sun was setting, all they that had any sick with divers diseases brought them unto him; and he laid his hands on every one of them, and healed them.”
~Luke 4:31,40


The fact that people would wait for the end of the Sabbath at the setting of the sun to bring their sick persons to Jesus, provides unmistakable evidence that the common people reckoned the Sabbath from sunset to sunset.

John confirms the use of the sunset reckoning when he writes:

"Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene came to the tomb early, while it was still dark"
~John 20:1


The fact that John speaks of the first day when referring to the dark hours before sunrise, clearly indicates that he is reckoning the day from sunset, or less probably, from midnight, according to the official Roman reckoning. In either case, the sunrise reckoning should be excluded. For those who are not yet convinced; the truth lies in the creation:

“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.”
~Genesis 1:1-5

This verse clearly shows us that the very first day in the history of the earth started with night/darkness/evening. That fact alone makes it impossible for a morning (sunrise) to ever be the start of the day, because there would have been at least half a day lost somewhere in history.

Therefore the Bible gives overwhelming evidence that the Sabbath should be observed from Friday evening (sunset) until Saturday evening (sunset).
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: MissG on January 24, 2012, 05:01:43 PM
The only "devil" walking and creating chaos is MAN and it´s greed. Human nature.

What if...

Jesus wasn´t the holy man the church wants us to believe? I am 100% sure that what he was was a revolutionary man from his era. A man going against the current. Not an alien, not divine.

I said it many times, Jesus probably had a wife (may be Magdalene?) and a son (may be a secret son called Judas?) and a set of values taken from the old testament. He even said,  apparently, that to understand his theory or belief one needs to understand and read the book of Jonah.

The book of Jonah is taken as a child story, similar to the event of Pinoccio in the gut of the whale, but the message goes beyond a simple story.

Since Paleochristians needed to develop a code language to communicate with each other, and the book of Jonah would be the code, imo, that book, in resume, talks about RECONCILIATION (imo as well)

Jonah and Jesus had parallel lives and their stories are also parallel, withing their suffering and their preaching. At the end both tried to preach and "warn" about God. But reconciliation can be also move beyond just faith of any sort, reconciliation can also happen between gangs, ethnic groups or even the system and the folks.

Imo, the biggest "devil" playing along and spreading hate during centuries have been the different cults/sects/religion groups trying to shovel their truth and only truth down our throats.

During Michael´s memorial a symbol uniting all the religions of the world was shown. This was his message, I am sure.

My question is: If Michael wanted to "preach" to people, why didn´t he do that on the 1st place? Some of his fans and supporters would go along and he could have also reach those of different faith (atheists included).

Now, if @TS feels as Jonah or Jesus and wants to preach via forum to feel that he is doing the right thing for humanity, that´s fine with me but I don´t and never will see right the use of Michael Jackson´s name for it.

“If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it.” Marcus Aurelius


Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: SimPattyK on January 24, 2012, 05:51:29 PM
[...]
LMAO...'telepathic thoughts' are NOT allowed Sim (wasn't that part of the jury's instructions?  :lol:).  Since we're all the same person, according to the haters  :roll:...what you're feeling is probably just a side effect.  Nothing some little blue pills won't fix  :lol:
You're so funny!!  :lol: :lol:

[...]
Thank you for your kind words!  I somehow missed them before! :lol:
aaaah What do you mean? You know I love you very much, you and your posts, don't you? (http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Amour/0034.gif) (http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Amour/0009.gif) I guess I'll have to say it more often, then ! ;)

I've printed all your post TS and will read it again, on paper, with an open mind, later.
When are you going to tell us who you are bow/ bow/ bow/ ??
God bless you Gina...you ALWAYS manage to make me smile or laugh  :lol: I'm glad you are here with us   bearhuh
+1  :lol:
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: GINAFELICIA on January 24, 2012, 06:04:35 PM
I'll think about it Sou.
Now it's very late and I have to go to bed but today there are 2 years and 7 months since  Mike is not with us and he's still dead BTW.  I hope you are OK Michael, love you more  bearhug.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Dontwalkaway on January 24, 2012, 07:16:05 PM
Wow MJonMind,

Maybe there is a connection between "The Dome Project" and The Dome of The Rock ???   The arc of the covenant and the temple being built is extremely important.   I think we should pay attention to The Dome of the Rock area and the plans for building the new temple. 

Also, Front said the key to unlocking the true ark is the number 7.   Any ideas ?  How would the ark Ron Wyatt found relate to the number 7 ?   What about the one in Ethiopia ???

 mj_dance/   
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Grace on January 24, 2012, 07:30:28 PM
I will not participate in / contribute to the biblical discussion or the "this religion is doing this" and "that one is doing that". There are others doing that better than I would. In addition, I think this is a very private affair.

One thing however I want to get out as this is the key IMHO to further understanding.
We have witnessed a "death" story being told which led us to determine from the pieces we were offered that the person said to have died (said so by very powerful and convincing multiplicators) did NOT die.

I think we are dealing with a parable which we still have not figured out completely.
IMHO it is essential to look back to remember and look again at what we saw and read and witnessed.

We thought the story would refer to 2005, Sneddon, Klein, Jackson 5, AEG, Sony, TPTB, bad contracts, cheaters, leeches, false estate, bad doctors, bad guys, good guys, indepted physicians repeatedly lost on nittycritty child support issues (bad daddy) but negociating with real big guys six-digit contracts, making a career from a personal physician to a family doctor with a holistic approach and being such a loved member of his church (and patient) community that he would address them and his emotions not only in a publicly printed letter of a "once in a lifetime chance" but also on today's mass medium youtube etc etc...
One day we were thinking this or that person played this or that role, the other day we were getting into the contrary impression and were never able to really nail it down to a 100% fact. We were hovering around like a balloon losing its knot --------- pschschschscht --------- up and down and right and left. When we fell down to one theory, we were blown up again with a new story and --------- pschschschscht --------- went the balloon again. LOL


BUT - what if all that was presented was NEVER about Michael?
What if Michael has taken on the role to witness on Jesus, tell the Bible, from door to door, like he never has done it before? Didn't he get as close as can be with us? Didn't he invite us to discover the man? And wouldn't he (I'm trying to imagine) like to "start with the one in the mirror, for once in his life, it's gonna feel real good, gonna make a difference, gonna make it right? I gotta make that make me then make (that change)"?

I remember I did not get the memorial at all as to who, why and how was participating - REALLY strange. For the farewell of THE entertainer? Far too religious. Painted oversticky with symbolism and not convincing to be a heartfelt goodbye for a person. A show to transport symbols and serve public emotions in providing a valve to let the steam out. I remember I sat there in disbelief.

So if it was not a farewell for the entertainer or person, the memorial was what then?
It was bringing a pretty whole lot of spiritual momentum back into our memory of Michael Jackson and changed our perception, right? Was it moving? Yes. Was it asking for handkerchiefs? Yes. Was it our goodbye to Thriller, Bad, "scandals", Dancing The Dream, Moonwalker? No.
Even the commenting journalists were completely confused. They had prepared discography and career data and had to face Al Sharpton. Not much of their bio script would come up to be commented on. So they stayed with "it's sooo sad" and most of the times they were blubbering true nonsense.

Coming from a "we do not know exactly what happened but it is all sooo sad" media and public assumptions of God knows what - swallowing the ambulance / coroner van fodder without any further question - to a spiritual <Thank You Lord> convention to celebrate an empty golden casket at Staples Center. Right. We went back "to normal" to investigate Sheriff, LAPD, LAFD, coroner, FBI, CIA, hospital, docs, pharmacies, the media and God knows what.
Was that relevant? This was also it. But not the right key.

Do we realize now how many spiritually important persons have accompanied the first phases and Michael and us and do we realize that everything ties back to the belief in God? To "HEALING THE WORLD" taken serious?

TMZ's "SWAT" operation picture with the moonwalking casket comes into my mind - special weapons and tactics - if for anything, I love Harvey for his word games - and Michael for being the master of word games. This is so brilliant...

July 7, 2009 (there is an "s" missing):
http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/07/michael-jackson-lapd-funeral/ (http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/07/michael-jackson-lapd-funeral/)

April 10, 2010:
http://www.tmz.com/2010/04/10/michael-jackson-casket-memorial-burial-staples-center/ (http://www.tmz.com/2010/04/10/michael-jackson-casket-memorial-burial-staples-center/)
http://ll-media.tmz.com/2010/04/10/photo-credit-2.jpg (http://ll-media.tmz.com/2010/04/10/photo-credit-2.jpg)
(aka THIS AIN'T REAL ... LOL)

We thought it was a criminal investigation into Doc Murray when in fact court room was a live demonstration of false assumptions, theories, curves of 9 peaks on a slide that were all man-made without any backing up case behind.
When Doc Murray was strangled in IV tubes and buried under 777 vials in the room, Dr. White had to acknowledge he violated court rules, Dr. Shafer emphasized on his huge theoretical hot air achievements and global recommendations, when Judge Pastor was predicting the weather and traffic conditions (remember the rainy days?), when Flannagan let the room fall asleep one more time, when the camera zoomed onto a wrong seal nobody seemed to care about, when the Sheriff staff sat on a torch and we found all kinds of keys, elephants and dodos in the room and Ms. Brazil was just as pretty as ever and Wally was sooo smart again, it was NOT about Michael.

It was about what we make out of our belief in God (for agnostics or atheists: the positive higher powers in our life).
A show, a selfish "look how great I am", stuffed with all kinds of cosy things, breaking the rules, putting garbage on the table declaring it important, making up our own drafts of explanations of our pictures in a TERRIBLE quality, playing on I-Pad during court (or the cell phone in church during mass?), dwelling again and again in all kinds of unnecessary loops (and loopholes), finally falling asleep and making everybody else asleep - thus being a block in the path of our brothers and sisters and of ourselves.

Michael is holding up a real HUGE mirror IMHO.
He's doing a tremendously good job. This is breathtaking.
Not over yet. More to come. Did I say, I love this journey? I really do. From the bottom of my heart.
So grateful for Michael's patience. If anyone, he got it.

Gratitude thread?
God, am I blessed to live these days, to have been called into this place, to get to know Michael and grow myself everyday more. This is the most exciting deep sea dive I've ever agreed to undertake without knowing whether there'd be any oxygene or life support (or IV) down there - and yet I KNOW, I will get up and out as a new person and it will all be fine and better than ever.

EOW ? End of ME.

Blessings and much love to everybody - my deepest respect to Michael who just did it.

 bearhug
Oh how I bet Michael sat down for hours if not days to discuss with Doc Murray.
But not about Propofol LOL

L.O.V.E.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: paula-c on January 24, 2012, 07:33:22 PM
The truth i have not had time to read a lot ... and i am a little confused with the things that I have read someone can interpret this:

In Revelation 11:19 am, the Bible explicitly states that the Ark of the Covenant is in the temple of God in Heaven.


The "2 witnesses" of Revelation.11:
One immediately thinks of Enoch and Elijah, who are the two people who did not die... but who tells us here are "2 witnesses" that make the same wonders that Elijah and Moses: can close the sky so that no rain, as Elijah; turn the water in blood, and could send the plagues that God commanded through Moses, 11: 6.
Do the wonders you did Moses and Elijah, but they will be defeated by the "beast" and their bodies exposed to the world for 3 days and half... but they risen and will rise to heaven, to the astonishment of the world!.
... And will be a "great earthquake" in 11: 13, at the end of the sixth trumpet, as happened in the sixth seal, 6: 2, and will be on 7th Cup 16: 18-19...
...The "Temple", is the central theme in this passage of the "2 witnesses": starts by measuring the Temple in 11: 1, and ends "opening the Temple" in 11: 19, seeing the Ark of the Covenant, and by sending to the ground "lightning, voices, lightning and an earthquake and strong hail", with e same meaning that 8: 5, already discussed... the 1,260 days of the testimony of the "2 witnesses" are the 3 and a half years of the "abominable desolation"in which there will be no sacrifice in the temple; and the 3 and a half days in which witnesses are dead are the 3 and a half years of the great tribulation






" …In heaven was opened the Temple of the Tabernacle of the Testimony" in the 4:1, a door opens up in the sky for John; in the 11:19 am, the Ark of the Covenant appears in the Temple so that believers they see it. Now the heavenly tabernacle appear in all its fullness (Exodus 38:21; Numbers 10:11; 17:7; Acts 7:44)
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: RK on January 24, 2012, 08:23:38 PM
Just a quick reply to all who said they would join together in a fresh look at the memorial. Thankyou guys. I will start a thread for it. It may get off to a slow start  as there is so much to be studying and researching at the moment.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on January 24, 2012, 09:32:59 PM
Here is a post I wrote in 2010 regarding The Dome of the Rock with other interesting connections.
Quote
Going back to Key word "DOME" this should be after Millineum Dome info about London

Templar Knights>>>Dome of The Rock

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dome_of_the_Rock
Quote
The Dome of the Rock is an Islamic shrine and major landmark located on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem.

The Dome of the Rock is an Islamic shrine and major landmark located on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem. It was completed in 691-692, making it the oldest existing Islamic building in the world. The site's significance stems from the religious beliefs regarding the rock, known as the Foundation Stone, at its heart.

The first headquarters of the Knights Templar, Al Aqsa Mosque, on Jerusalem's Temple Mount. The Crusaders called it the Temple of Solomon, as it was built on top of the ruins of the original Temple, and it was from this location that the Knights took their name of Templar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Aqsa_Mosque
Quote
Al-Aqsa Mosque also known as al-Aqsa, is an Islamic holy place in the Old City of Jerusalem. The site that includes the mosque (along with the Dome of the Rock) is also referred to as al-Haram ash-Sharif or "Sacred Noble Sanctuary", a site also known as the Temple Mount, the holiest site in Judaism, the place where the First and Second Temples are generally accepted to have stood. Widely considered as the third holiest site in Islam, Muslims believe that Muhammad was transported from the Sacred Mosque in Mecca to al-Aqsa during the Night Journey. Islamic tradition holds that Muhammad led prayers towards this site until the seventeenth month after the emigration, when God ordered him to turn towards the Ka'aba.

Located On:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Mount
Quote
The Temple Mount, also known as Mount Moriah and by Muslims as the Noble Sanctuary, is a religious site in the Old City of Jerusalem.

Judaism regards the Temple Mount as the place where God chose the Divine Presence to rest, it was from here the world expanded into its present form and where God gathered the dust used to create the first man, Adam. The site is the location of Abraham's binding of Isaac, and of two Jewish Temples. According to the Bible the site should function as the center of all national life - government, judicial, economical (during the 2nd Temple period), and, of course, religious center. From that location the word of God will come out to all nations, and that is the site that all prayers are focused at. The first was built by Solomon the son of David in 957 BCE and destroyed by the Babylonians in 586 BCE. The second was constructed under the auspices of Zerubbabel in 516 BCE and destroyed by the Roman Empire in 70 CE. Jewish tradition maintains it is here the Third and final Temple will also be built. The location is the holiest site in Judaism and is the place Jews turn towards during prayer. Due to its extreme sanctity, many Jews will not walk on the Mount itself, to avoid unintentionally entering the area where the Holy of Holies stood, since according to Rabbinical law, some aspect of the Divine Presence is still present at the site. It was from the Holy of Holies that the High Priest communicated directly with God. The ark of covenant and the tablets may still be buried in one of the many underground cavities at the site.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Moriah
Quote
Moriah is the name given to a mountain range by the Book of Genesis, in which context it is given as the location of the sacrifice of Isaac. Traditionally Moriah has been interpreted as the name of the specific mountain at which this occurred, rather than just the name of the range. The exact location referred to is currently a matter of some debate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Genesis
Quote
The Book of Genesis is the first book of the Hebrew Bible, the first of five books of the Torah, which are called the Pentateuch in the Christian Old Testament.

Genesis contains some of the best known biblical stories, including the Hebrew account of the creation of the world, Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel, Noah's Ark, the Tower of Babel, the Call of Abraham, Abraham and the sacrifice of Isaac, Esau and Jacob, the marriage of Jacob, Jacob and Laban, Sarah and Pharaoh, Sarah and Abimelech, the battle of the Vale of Siddim, Sodom and Gomorrah, Jacob's wrestling with the angel at Peniel, Joseph and his coat of many colours, Joseph and the interpretation of Pharaoh's dreams, Onan and his sin, the seduction of Lot by his daughters, the Blessing of Jacob, the purchase of the cave of Machpelah, and others. Structurally, it consists of the "primeval history" (chapters 1–11) and cycles of Patriarchal stories (chapters 12–50)—Abraham, Isaac, Jacob (renamed, Israel), and concluding with Joseph. Modern critical scholarship believes that the Book of Genesis reached its final form in the 5th century BC, with a previous history of composition reaching back into the 6th and 7th centuries.

Located In:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem
Quote
The oldest part of the city, the City of David, was settled in the 4th millennium BCE, making Jerusalem one of the oldest cities in the world. Jerusalem is the holiest city in Judaism and has been the spiritual center of the Jewish people since c. 1000 BCE, when David the King of Israel first established it as the capital of the united Kingdom of Israel (Psalms 122), and his son Solomon commissioned the building of the First Temple in the city. Jerusalem is also considered a holy city in Christianity and contains a number of significant Christian sites, and, due to the mentioning of 'The Farthest Mosque' in the Qur'an (Sura al-Isra) and the subsequent building of a mosque called 'the Farthest Mosque' on the Temple Mount, Islam regards Jerusalem as its third-holiest city.

Full Circle back to the beginning.
This IS just scratching the surface.
Peace

Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on January 24, 2012, 10:51:51 PM
Quote
20. Why Can’t We See the Ark?

Some ask why we can’t see the ark, if Ron really found it? What about the Israelites, did they have to see the ark physically, in order to believe that it existed? Remember, only the high priest was allowed to see the ark, and only on one day of the year (Yom Kippur). Also, the ark is still being guarded by the four angels; so nobody will see the ark without God allowing it (see Leviticus 16:12,13). In fact, Ron said that there were: “… six Israelis that died, in attempts to go in and move it [six men to move the ark!]. … But the men that went in to move it died, before they even got near the chamber.” (~44:00, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfYpYv_A4Ns).

John 20:29 “Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me [resurrected], thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.”

God wants us to see the ark by faith. But not blind faith, gullibly believing everything that anyone tells us; no, we should have intelligent faith that is based upon plenty of evidence. Also, video of the ark and the tables of stone will be made public in the near future, shortly after the mark of the beast law is passed.

For now, there are a few drawings of the ark, based upon Ron’s description of it. One of them has the blood on the correct side of the mercy seat, and the staves near the bottom, but not underneath. This is because Ron was not the artist, and some of the finer details were not understood correctly by the artist. There are a few other drawings of the Wyatt ark, at least one of which has the staves completely under the ark, where they belong.

Furthermore, Ron also discovered Noah’s ark, Sodom and Gomorrah, the Red Sea crossing, Mount Sinai, the crucifixion site, and more. Just like with the ark of the covenant, these other genuine discoveries stand out in striking contrast to the traditional beliefs on these things. And with everything other than the ark, we can see at least photographs or video; and some of them can even be seen in person! So these other discoveries help to give Ron Wyatt additional validation, that he found the real ark of the covenant.
The National Sunday Law is the mark of the beast law.
I received the booklet in this link:
http://www.wyattarchaeology.com/nsl.pdf in my mailbox in 2010. I have known about this and I have been watching to see when this will be enforced. The pdf of The National Sunday Law is available to download for free. I am not promoting anything except truth. I just found the link and read that the booklet was available on line recently.

I also found this website that has alot of info regarding the N.S.L.
http://www.markofbeast.net/page3.htm
I am not trying to promote any religion or sway anyone's opinion. Go by the evidence.  rr/
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: GINAFELICIA on January 25, 2012, 12:59:06 AM
wow Grace I loved your words, you even made me cry. I hope you have the right image of what happened, anyway it was very emotional to read your post.

Quote
So if it was not a farewell for the entertainer or person, the memorial was what then?
It was bringing a pretty whole lot of spiritual momentum back into our memory of Michael Jackson and changed our perception, right? Was it moving? Yes. Was it asking for handkerchiefs? Yes. Was it our goodbye to Thriller, Bad, "scandals", Dancing The Dream, Moonwalker? No.
Even the commenting journalists were completely confused. They had prepared discography and career data and had to face Al Sharpton. Not much of their bio script would come up to be commented on. So they stayed with "it's sooo sad" and most of the times they were blubbering true nonsense.

Coming from a "we do not know exactly what happened but it is all sooo sad" media and public assumptions of God knows what - swallowing the ambulance / coroner van fodder without any further question - to a spiritual <Thank You Lord> convention to celebrate an empty golden casket at Staples Center. Right. We went back "to normal" to investigate Sheriff, LAPD, LAFD, coroner, FBI, CIA, hospital, docs, pharmacies, the media and God knows what.
Was that relevant? This was also it. But not the right key.

Do we realize now how many spiritually important persons have accompanied the first phases and Michael and us and do we realize that everything ties back to the belief in God? To "HEALING THE WORLD" taken serious?

I love you Michael.

Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: MJonmind on January 25, 2012, 03:17:52 AM
Grace, that was a lovely summation of much of the hoax events! /bravo/
Quote
pschschschscht --------- went the balloon again. LOL
Michael is holding up a real HUGE mirror IMHO.


Im_convinced linked to:
Quote
The "Sabbath" to Make a "Comeback" in 2012 in America (January 2012)
Faith leaders were asked for predictions for 2012. Look at one of the things that was stated ...
"Sabbath becomes trendy! Fourth Commandment makes a comeback! Sabbath named Time’s person of the year! A new movement sweeps the country. They call themselves 24/6. Worn out by being tethered to the grid 24/7, sick of being accessible all hours of the day, inundated by updates, upgrades, and breaking news, AMERICANS FINALLY REBEL, DEMANDING, "WE NEED A DAY OFF." People all over the country go offline for 24 hours every week. The simple break from the frenetic pace results in lowered cholesterol rates, fewer speeding tickets, and a reduction in marital strife. Peace, tranquility and contentment spread like wildfire."
This "sabbath" as we know will be Sunday!
News Article: (See point number 9)    http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/01/01/12-faith-based-predictions-for-2012/ (http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/01/01/12-faith-based-predictions-for-2012/)


Sign (TS)
Quote
Also, video of the ark and the tables of stone will be made public in the near future, shortly after the mark of the beast law is passed.).

It's possible that MJ has met and discussed the findings with Ron Wyatt, since he seems confident about what will be shown in the future. Talking one on one changes things, such as trustworthiness possibly. Perhaps MJ has met with political law-makers and knows about the NSL New Sunday Law, with certainty as well.


SimPattyK
Quote
Quote from: MJonmind on January 23, 2012, 11:34:43 PM (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=22042.msg386501#msg386501)
Quote
Thank you for your kind words!  I somehow missed them before!

aaaah What do you mean? You know I love you very much, you and your posts, don't you?
I guess I'll have to say it more often, then !

My love right back at ya! 
bearhug
Actually what I meant was I missed reading your kind words in the post you made on that page, until later when re-reading! :lol:  Although I'll be happy to receive as many kind words as you can spare. :D 


Souza,
Your Bible studies are amazing especially considering this is all new for you!
I just noticed the yearly Sabbath days are different than the 7 feasts, particularly the Day of Atonement, and as TS said, Yom Kippur stands for the EOW before the happy 7th lights feast afterwards.
 
Quote
1 Passover
2. Feast: Feast of unleavened bread
3. Feast: Feast of Firstfruits
4. Feast: Shavuot (Pentecost)
5. Feast: Feast of trumpets
6. Feast: Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement)
7. Feast: Succoth (Tabernacles)
http://www.luziusschneider.com/Papers/JewishFeasts.htm (http://www.luziusschneider.com/Papers/JewishFeasts.htm)
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: emulik on January 25, 2012, 03:33:22 AM
happy that i saw your post Aussie, and i totally agree with you, i'm so confused lately more than ever......  most of TS latest post.
I still do strongly believe TS is speaking for Michael, so i want to see how this posts would develop futher, i think TS or MJ has a purpose for this post besides  the religion part. There's more to come!
This is what i believe and i'm feeling comfortable with this, it surely feels good to know MIchael
reaching out to us. i do feel a litlle ashamed or guilt for saying "US"because i know how much i wanted or tryed for contributing to the hoax Family, i can't measure with you all.i hope Maybe some day i can do something in return.

LOVE to you all, and thank you
TS i'm looking forward to see the other Signs


Hi Shybleueyes, please do not feel like you do not contribute here, because you DO! I like your comments, they are always so kind :)
I think everybody contributes here by visiting this forum and showing love and care for Michael.
Have a nice day! bearhug
[/quote]
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: emulik on January 25, 2012, 03:40:21 AM
Think this could be a connection?
The bloody shirt left behind at Carolwood hidden away in a closet
and the Blood of Jesus left behind on the mercy seat?
We've never had a dot to connect to the blood stained shirt before.

I also can't see TS using something as holy and precious as the Blood of Jesus to test people with. Just can't get my head around that . The blood of Christ is something not to be trivialized or played with. So I believe he is sincere in what he has presented.
you are right. and what about knife that was found on bed table in bedroom of Michael? he was really big so everybody could see him, but I think in official agencies there was no mention about him. could that knife be connection with that bloody shirt?
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: diggyon on January 25, 2012, 08:09:25 AM
Good point Diggyon.  There are other holy books such as the Quran and Talmud.  What do they say about the end of the World ?  Isn't the Talmud similar to the Old Testament ???  I know the three big religions Judiasm, Islam, and Christianity have a lot in common.   

Maybe it doesn't matter.  If God sent some one to help earth it's for the whole planet.  Not only one religion.  If you beleive in God, then it's the same God for all of us.   I think of God as the creator.

Love You All


I have read the Quran and the Bible. I must admit that there are many similarities between them. But it is suitable for such a subject to draw attention to other holy books as well. Until now we are only reading Bible quotes. Somehow I believe that TS believes only in the Bible. That's why we never see any other quotes from other Holy Books.

Indeed Diggyon there are a lot of similarities but also some contradictions. Now concerning the end of the world it doesn't go into great details, but there sure is mention of it. The world will end one day.

Now there is something that I had discovered and posted in a redirect thread and I remember you were the only one who answered. Do you remember Sura 55 "The Most Gracious" and the same verse repeated several times? When you add all the verses' numbers it pinpoints directly to 2012 (=1433 lunar calendar) and the verse in question is "Which of your Lord's marvels can you deny?. In all honesty I think that it's not a coincidence, especially considering that the Quran has been written a long time ago. So my interpretation is that God will show His marvels, surely the Ark is one of these marvels. Just what is happening with the unveiling of information about the Ark... coincidence? I think there will be other marvels to unveil as well.

There is also a prophecy called "the smoke" in Sura 44 that has to pass yet, before the advent of God and Magog, so maybe that it's related too.

44:10
Therefore, watch for the day when the sky brings a profound smoke.

I think it's about "darkness" envelopping the earth. Just my interpretation here.  ;)


Yes Sarahli, I remember that post very well. I must also admit that you have a very sharp memory. Actually I am interested in numerology in holy books. I read the Bible and the Quran too. I have copies of them at home. T.S. showed us numerology in the Bible. So I started to make my researches about numerology in Quran, since it is a holy book as well. I found amazing things about numerology in Quran that i wouldn't want to share here on that forum as may many won't be interested to read about. I also read Sura no. 44 and no 55. Actually I am open to any interpretation. I am glad to be the only one who answered you on what you wrote about the EOW in the Quran. It's important to make some researches about this subject. The holy books are full of signs and infromation, only for those who seek the knowledge!!!
Again, I must admit that you have a  V E R Y  sharp  M E M O R Y !!!!How do you do that???? Any advice??   
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Grace on January 25, 2012, 08:27:31 AM
Sarahli and diggyon - I for one am VERY interested in learning about the Quran. I remember a post about the number 7 in Quran but I would not be able to find it again.
I would also like to learn about the Torah and Jewish scriptures if we have someone here who could tell us about it. The more we know about each other and each other's cultural history, the more we can understand each other in our differences and our common elements.
Understanding is the basis for tolerance and tolerance is the basis for peace.
In the end, it does not matter which colour or belief we have.
The answer is love and love is understood in every language and culture and that's GREAT.

I would like to encourage you to start a thread about your findings in Quran.


Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: BeTheChange on January 25, 2012, 10:03:38 AM
Sarahli and diggyon - I for one am VERY interested in learning about the Quran. I remember a post about the number 7 in Quran but I would not be able to find it again.
I would also like to learn about the Torah and Jewish scriptures if we have someone here who could tell us about it. The more we know about each other and each other's cultural history, the more we can understand each other in our differences and our common elements.
Understanding is the basis for tolerance and tolerance is the basis for peace.
In the end, it does not matter which colour or belief we have.
The answer is love and love is understood in every language and culture and that's GREAT.
I would like to encourage you to start a thread about your findings in Quran.

Grace...I've said it before and I'll say it again, you've got some amazing posts!  Even if we don't see eye to eye on everything (although your thoughts very often mirror mine)...I SO respect your views, perspectives and YOU!  What you said right there (in bold), I think, is THE 'key' to a 'new' world.  Sadly, none of us have experienced THAT kind of world in our lifetimes...we'd have to go WAY back in history to find anything remotely resembling that kind of 'respect' among people and between 'man' and nature.  Even more sad is that our CHILDREN won't experience it either...unless WE do something about it.  And at the rate we've been going....our children will be lucky if they even have the chance to have children of their own. 

Your post about the hoax purpose...Mike's purpose for doing all this...was really interesting.  I can SEE Mike taking 'door to door' to a whole new level and that, in itself, would be great of Mike.  But I think it's got to be more than that...or at least that's what we're being led to believe.  Given the state we're in worldwide....I'm REALLY hoping it's more than that.  And if there's anyone who can 'kick-off' the global "change" that is needed...it's Mike.  He's practising what he preached all along...except now on a grand stage.  I can't see the whole picture yet...i.e. I don't know what the whole 'vision' is yet (there's been glimpses and flashes of some goals along the way)...but based on everything we've seen/heard/learned over the past 2.5 years, I have faith that he knows exactly what he's doing, he knows the end goal, he's studied the different ways to get there and chose the most 'entertaining' paths and the most 'educational' ones (thanks Mike  ::P ) and he WILL get us there.  I'm not sure how much of that is what I KNOW and how much is what I'm hoping for...and how much is both.

TS' last post took things to a whole new 'hoax' level...in fact, I think the 'hoax' portion of this adventure ended on November 29, 2011 (Level 7 ring a bell?...IT ended on November 29 because HE ended it)...we're beyond the 'hoax' now.  We went from dissecting ambulance footage to dissecting the Ark of the Covenant lol.  According to Jermaine, the time up until November 29 was about 'justice'...and only then would it be time for 'truth'.  Interesting how The Sign and the first of 7 Signs are 'surfacing' now...'he' didn't begin with the Sign/Signs (we first had updates and then levels) and according to TS, these are the final 7 pieces (i.e. he didn't list anything AFTER the 7 Signs when he listed what's to come THIS year).  When I put the two together (Jermaine's words and TS' posting dates---which we KNOW are intentional and well thought out)...I'm thinking that we're gonna be getting a lot of 'truth' coming our way.  I, for one, am gonna try my hardest to be open to it and not 'judge' it without really looking at it.  The 'truth' sometimes hurts or can make us feel uncomfortable...and we may not 'like' some of the truths that'll come our way....but in the end, 'truth' IS all that matters.  Well...truth AND love is all that matters.  Here's to hoping Mike has a plan to bring BOTH back into the world...a double BAM  ::P

We should all take a collective deep breath....find some extra seatbelts and a hand to hold lol....cause I do believe we're heading into the home-stretch....and it will end with a BAM!

With L.O.V.E. always.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: curls on January 25, 2012, 10:56:45 AM
What if MJ is not planning on Bamming until after the EOW, in the 'new world' that he believes is coming?  Then only those who make it to the 'other side', if there is to be one, will ever see him again. I'm beginning to wonder if I will go to my grave with my family still thinking I'm nuts for believing he is alive.  :cry:
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Sarahli on January 25, 2012, 11:04:12 AM
Diggyon  lolol/ I have a S.E.L.E.C.T.I.V.E. memory!  geek/  It works on its own nothing to do about that.  :mrgreen:

Thank you Grace for showing your interest, it's really nice. So I may start a thread about the Quran in the religious forum and I hope that you Diggyon will post your discoveries there too?

@Curls, TS has been very clear that Michael will return before 2013.  ;)

Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: BeTheChange on January 25, 2012, 11:25:31 AM
I'm reading over some stuff and I'm COMPLETELY confused about something (nothing new there lol).  THIS Bible passage 'overshadows' everything and anything I read, see, or 'learn' about the 'Ark' (the 'earthly' one):

Exodus 20:3-6
New International Version (NIV)

“You shall have no other gods before me.

You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.  You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments."

For those that study the Bible...how does the Ark factor in to that?  Isn't it an image made by man in the form of something in heaven?  Will people not 'bow down' to it IF it 'surfaces'?  I know a lot of people that go to church every Sunday (which I guess is the wrong day lol)...and they WILL bow down to it, if 'it' appears.  Was the Ark created out of 'sin' (i.e. a broken 'law')...or is it somehow exempt from God's 'law' in the passage above?  If it is exempt (i.e. God 'allowed' it)....then will those that bow down to it be commiting a 'sin'?

There's something that just doesn't 'feel' right about this whole Ark issue...but I can't pinpoint what it is.  Maybe it's my interpretation of that passage that is causing a 'stumbling block' for me.

With L.O.V.E. always.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: nefertari on January 25, 2012, 11:37:50 AM
The anointing of the Holy of Holies that Daniel 9:24 refers  is not yet occurred. It must come after the atonement of iniquity and the establishing of eternal justice, i.e  the day  representing Yom Kippur (EOW) - the day when the place where the king will sit will be anointed.
This is a point against the theory of Wyatt. Isn’t it?

I noticed that in the "Day of Atonement" (Yom Kippur = EOW) the Jews had to sacrifice a ram and  two goats and mark the ark with their blood. These are the same animals appeared to Daniel in a vision to indicate the empires that will be destroyed at the end of time

Quote
Daniel 8
19And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.
 20The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.
 21And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.
23And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
 25And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: wishingstar on January 25, 2012, 12:18:54 PM
What if MJ is not planning on Bamming until after the EOW, in the 'new world' that he believes is coming?  Then only those who make it to the 'other side', if there is to be one, will ever see him again. I'm beginning to wonder if I will go to my grave with my family still thinking I'm nuts for believing he is alive.  :cry:

Curls......have faith.  Michael said in TII, it's all an adventure....nothing to be afraid of.  I truly believe that Michael knows full well what's going here and in the hearts of believers.  For me, after reading this amazing thread and all that TS has posted over the past 2.5 years, I have made it to "the other side".  My heart is a much better place along with my mind. 

I feel like I am late to the ball in posting on this thread.  However, I enjoy each post so much, my mind races with thoughts in all directions.  Yet it was Grace's recent post about the farewell to the entertainer that made me realize, once again, the magnitude of this adventure called hoax.  It did indeed begin with the unyielding pain of death of someone I admired for years.  Michael was always more than just an entertainer to me.  Although, I can't exactly put into words what.  I never worshipped him like a mega-fan....there was a reverence I felt from the moment I first saw him as a boy.  His eyes told me something more.  Through the years, I loved, loved his music, his art, his style....though it was always a different level for me.  Like watching "divinity in motion"....he was truly gifted.  I don't feel that way about many artists.  Grace's post about the memorial being something more makes it crystal clear to me that June 25th as a whole was a metaphor for all things good.  It was a day of metaphoric death for a person I saw as divinely gifted.  I thought this very thought on June 25th, "if God gave such a gift to the world, why would he take it away....." It's only now that those words are proving to be the crux of my belief in Michael.  It's never been a secret Michael loves God.  Many celebrities thank God on stage after receiving an award.  It's the only time they acknowledge God at all.  Michael shared the love of God openly....and truly. The notion that this hoax has turned into a religious cavern of thought is true......all led by Michael.  It truly is a modern door-to-door way to discover things about God and religion as a whole.  It's an adventure of "beliefs"....of faiths.  To truly believe in Michael and his message, one must be willing to see how faith works in the heart.  Having faith doesn't always mean believing in God.   Having faith is believing in what you can not see.  At the moment, that something is Michael.  We can't see him physically, or can we?  I am 101% convinced he is here among us....ever writing, ever posting and guiding.  Who knows....perhaps I am completely nuts...right there with you curls, lol.  However, in my heart I feel it....and my heart doesn't lie.  My mind has the power to over-ride positive thoughts with seeds of doubt and despair.  However, it's only been through this adventure my mind has become stronger and more able to defend against those negative thoughts. 

This thread has proven very powerful in sustaining my belief that there is so much more to come.  It was never just about the death of a pop star.  It was never only for entertainment.....though it is incredibly entertaining on a whole different level.  The reasons for the hoax will come out in time.  "The truth will prevail".....what truth is that statement really talking about?  The truth of June 25th?  The truth of Michael's complete innocence? The truth of Jesus?  The truth of the Ark? 7 truths perhaps?

Michael's hoax was, is, and will be the greatest adventure of our lifetime.  To learn something in a totally new way is amazing to me.  If Michael knocked on my door, with a Bible in hand.....yes, I'd let him in.  However, I'd be so mesmerized I couldn't concentrate on the importance of the message.  Well Michael....knock knock.....I am totally concentrated on the the message now.  You have my full attention...........thank you. 

Curls...please have faith.  Everything will work out.  You are an amazing member here.  Your posts have inspired me to no end!  Thank you so much for all the hard work and effort you put in.  It truly shows.....surely Michael is very proud of you!

@BeTheChange.....your posts always make me fall over in amazement.  What you said about the "hoax portion" ending in November was brilliant.  It totally fits with what we are experiencing.  The words "truth" and "love" are what matters.  In all aspects of life those two things need to have the prevailing lead.  Without them, we are nothing.  With them, we are fulfilled.  Thank you, my friend, you always shed light on what I need to realize most.  *taking that collective deep breath now*

I will continue to poor over this thread and the new website TS directed to.  Thank you to all that posted so much here.....love you all!
Blessings Always


Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: paula-c on January 25, 2012, 01:24:24 PM
The name "Armageddon" produces hunches and terror in the minds of many. Some imagine a great world war in the Middle East. Others imagine an Antichrist struggling for world supremacy. Others do not know what believe or expect.

The Scriptures teach that this battle is fought between two major forces: God, and his followers, versus the devil, evil spirits and their wicked and unclean followers. So, the battle of Armageddon is a symbol that describes this controversy and furious conflict between God and Satan - between truth and error. And this spiritual battle will involve everyone on earth so that each can decide who follow - one or the other, God and the truth, or the devil and the error: to an eternal life with God or eternal destruction with Satan.

Of all the great powers that govern the Earth, the fact that in paganism, Church and State were not separate - but were jointly United is also shown. In Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome, the State was always used to support and give strength to the pagan religion of the time. Laws were always promulgated and the civil power was used to impose the worship of pagan deities and false beliefs.
Today, as in ancient times, the spirit of celebration and adoration of human perceptions, institutions and tradition; the desire to unite the Church with the State to the Church can be strengthened to impose their dogma and decrees, and worldly spirit is the spirit of the Dragon. And this spirit will grow more and more prominently until it ends in the great time of trouble for the people of God.

We must differentiate between the good of evil, and not let ourselves be fooled that the end i think it is the aim of this message of TS.


That difference of evil for good? as of the light to darkness. They are just opposites.
Evil is anything which damages
The good is what benefits us if we see him in a simplistic sense.
Evil is Satan, the tempting, hatred
The good is God, the love.
I believe that these concepts are the same everywhere. The form of their conceptualizacion would be the difference. The good is common, morally, bad too is common, as immoral and morality is one in all cultures. The differences of approach is something else. This clear, in my concept. In my way of seeing things. I sincerely believe that there are different customs, different forms of expression, but I think we have much in common. Love

Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: ShyBleuEyes on January 25, 2012, 02:19:00 PM



Hi Shybleueyes, please do not feel like you do not contribute here, because you DO! I like your comments, they are always so kind :)
I think everybody contributes here by visiting this forum and showing love and care for Michael.
Have a nice day! bearhug
[/quote]
[/quote]

@Emulik, Thank you for your very sweet words,  bearhug you make me happy for just reading my post.

I did already know you are very sweet and loving THANK U

 Wish you LOVE and happiness  :)
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: curls on January 25, 2012, 03:24:45 PM

@Curls, TS has been very clear that Michael will return before 2013.  ;)



Being realistic here, I have to say TS (normally) has a way of wording things that allows for changes of plans. He (almost) always leaves space for a 'get-out' if needed. It's a skill he has in writing that I actually admire greatly, even though it's exasperating at times!

I say 'normally' and 'almost' because in the first section of this Ark redirect (quoted below), he appears not to leave any room for doubt/change of heart or plan - and this is very uncharacteristic of him.

"It should also be clearly stated at this point that the world will not end on 12-21-2012; but it will end shortly after 2012! How long is “shortly”? Nobody knows a specific date; but it will probably be within the next few years (nobody living on earth now is going to grow old, unless you’re nearly there already). How can we be sure that this is true? If you keep watching, you will learn how, soon enough."
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: curls on January 25, 2012, 03:40:23 PM
What if MJ is not planning on Bamming until after the EOW, in the 'new world' that he believes is coming?  Then only those who make it to the 'other side', if there is to be one, will ever see him again. I'm beginning to wonder if I will go to my grave with my family still thinking I'm nuts for believing he is alive.  :cry:

Curls......have faith.  Michael said in TII, it's all an adventure....nothing to be afraid of.
 
 "The truth will prevail".....what truth is that statement really talking about?  The truth of June 25th?  The truth of Michael's complete innocence? The truth of Jesus?  The truth of the Ark? 7 truths perhaps?
 
Curls...please have faith.  Everything will work out. 


@wishingstar, I enjoyed reading your post, (bits quoted above) thanks for responding to mine.

Regarding MJ's comment in TII, it could be argued that this is how he views the EOW and beyond. It may have little to do with us and our response to his hoax.

You say 'have faith', but I have to ask myself 'faith in what?' Just as you went on to ask about what 'truth' will prevail, I ask myself what I'm supposed to be having faith in here. Faith in Michael being alive, faith in him coming back, faith in God, faith in a bright new world following the end of this one?????  Front has said it doesn't matter if you don't have faith in God, just have faith in Michael, but The Sign's post would indicate that faith in God and a new world is what is really important in all this.

I have faith that Michael is alive - and that's about as far as I can take things at the moment.  So I keep watching!
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: MJonmind on January 25, 2012, 04:44:03 PM
Grace
Quote
I would like to encourage you to start a thread about your findings in Quran.
Yes, Sarahli and Diggyon, the more merrier! respect/ 



BeTheChange  Yes, the image law is an enigma I’ve studied before. Also the temple was filled with imagery as well. I believe God in this master storyline, has put in some deliberate trip-ups for the ones who wish to go deeper into the riddles, layers, codes, cryptic messages the Bible holds.

Wishingstar
Quote
Michael shared the love of God openly....and truly. The notion that this hoax has turned into a religious cavern of thought is true......all led by Michael.  It truly is a modern door-to-door way to discover things about God and religion as a whole.  It's an adventure of "beliefs"....of faiths.  To truly believe in Michael and his message, one must be willing to see how faith works in the heart.


Michael's hoax was, is, and will be the greatest adventure of our lifetime.  To learn something in a totally new way is amazing to me.  If Michael knocked on my door, with a Bible in hand.....yes, I'd let him in.  However, I'd be so mesmerized I couldn't concentrate on the importance of the message.  Well Michael....knock knock.....I am totally concentrated on the the message now.  You have my full attention...........thank you.


Wishingstar, you and BeTheChange's posts are just so poignant and heart-stirring. Michael at the door brings to mind this oft seen painting.


(http://www.fellowtravelerblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/knocking-door-pg.jpg)

Curls
Quote
Being realistic here, I have to say TS (normally) has a way of wording things that allows for changes of plans. He (almost) always leaves space for a 'get-out' if needed. It's a skill he has in writing that I actually admire greatly, even though it's exasperating at times!
Isn't he truly all that, and much more!  Makes you want /pull hair/ /scream/   But we can't leave if we wanted to.  :lol:
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: everlastinglove_MJ on January 25, 2012, 04:45:15 PM
I will not participate in / contribute to the biblical discussion or the "this religion is doing this" and "that one is doing that". There are others doing that better than I would. In addition, I think this is a very private affair.

One thing however I want to get out as this is the key IMHO to further understanding.
We have witnessed a "death" story being told which led us to determine from the pieces we were offered that the person said to have died (said so by very powerful and convincing multiplicators) did NOT die.

I think we are dealing with a parable which we still have not figured out completely.
IMHO it is essential to look back to remember and look again at what we saw and read and witnessed.

We thought the story would refer to 2005, Sneddon, Klein, Jackson 5, AEG, Sony, TPTB, bad contracts, cheaters, leeches, false estate, bad doctors, bad guys, good guys, indepted physicians repeatedly lost on nittycritty child support issues (bad daddy) but negociating with real big guys six-digit contracts, making a career from a personal physician to a family doctor with a holistic approach and being such a loved member of his church (and patient) community that he would address them and his emotions not only in a publicly printed letter of a "once in a lifetime chance" but also on today's mass medium youtube etc etc...
One day we were thinking this or that person played this or that role, the other day we were getting into the contrary impression and were never able to really nail it down to a 100% fact. We were hovering around like a balloon losing its knot --------- pschschschscht --------- up and down and right and left. When we fell down to one theory, we were blown up again with a new story and --------- pschschschscht --------- went the balloon again. LOL


BUT - what if all that was presented was NEVER about Michael?
What if Michael has taken on the role to witness on Jesus, tell the Bible, from door to door, like he never has done it before? Didn't he get as close as can be with us? Didn't he invite us to discover the man? And wouldn't he (I'm trying to imagine) like to "start with the one in the mirror, for once in his life, it's gonna feel real good, gonna make a difference, gonna make it right? I gotta make that make me then make (that change)"?

I remember I did not get the memorial at all as to who, why and how was participating - REALLY strange. For the farewell of THE entertainer? Far too religious. Painted oversticky with symbolism and not convincing to be a heartfelt goodbye for a person. A show to transport symbols and serve public emotions in providing a valve to let the steam out. I remember I sat there in disbelief.

So if it was not a farewell for the entertainer or person, the memorial was what then?
It was bringing a pretty whole lot of spiritual momentum back into our memory of Michael Jackson and changed our perception, right? Was it moving? Yes. Was it asking for handkerchiefs? Yes. Was it our goodbye to Thriller, Bad, "scandals", Dancing The Dream, Moonwalker? No.
Even the commenting journalists were completely confused. They had prepared discography and career data and had to face Al Sharpton. Not much of their bio script would come up to be commented on. So they stayed with "it's sooo sad" and most of the times they were blubbering true nonsense.

Coming from a "we do not know exactly what happened but it is all sooo sad" media and public assumptions of God knows what - swallowing the ambulance / coroner van fodder without any further question - to a spiritual <Thank You Lord> convention to celebrate an empty golden casket at Staples Center. Right. We went back "to normal" to investigate Sheriff, LAPD, LAFD, coroner, FBI, CIA, hospital, docs, pharmacies, the media and God knows what.
Was that relevant? This was also it. But not the right key.

Do we realize now how many spiritually important persons have accompanied the first phases and Michael and us and do we realize that everything ties back to the belief in God? To "HEALING THE WORLD" taken serious?

TMZ's "SWAT" operation picture with the moonwalking casket comes into my mind - special weapons and tactics - if for anything, I love Harvey for his word games - and Michael for being the master of word games. This is so brilliant...

July 7, 2009 (there is an "s" missing):
http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/07/michael-jackson-lapd-funeral/ (http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/07/michael-jackson-lapd-funeral/)

April 10, 2010:
http://www.tmz.com/2010/04/10/michael-jackson-casket-memorial-burial-staples-center/ (http://www.tmz.com/2010/04/10/michael-jackson-casket-memorial-burial-staples-center/)
http://ll-media.tmz.com/2010/04/10/photo-credit-2.jpg (http://ll-media.tmz.com/2010/04/10/photo-credit-2.jpg)
(aka THIS AIN'T REAL ... LOL)

We thought it was a criminal investigation into Doc Murray when in fact court room was a live demonstration of false assumptions, theories, curves of 9 peaks on a slide that were all man-made without any backing up case behind.
When Doc Murray was strangled in IV tubes and buried under 777 vials in the room, Dr. White had to acknowledge he violated court rules, Dr. Shafer emphasized on his huge theoretical hot air achievements and global recommendations, when Judge Pastor was predicting the weather and traffic conditions (remember the rainy days?), when Flannagan let the room fall asleep one more time, when the camera zoomed onto a wrong seal nobody seemed to care about, when the Sheriff staff sat on a torch and we found all kinds of keys, elephants and dodos in the room and Ms. Brazil was just as pretty as ever and Wally was sooo smart again, it was NOT about Michael.

It was about what we make out of our belief in God (for agnostics or atheists: the positive higher powers in our life).
A show, a selfish "look how great I am", stuffed with all kinds of cosy things, breaking the rules, putting garbage on the table declaring it important, making up our own drafts of explanations of our pictures in a TERRIBLE quality, playing on I-Pad during court (or the cell phone in church during mass?), dwelling again and again in all kinds of unnecessary loops (and loopholes), finally falling asleep and making everybody else asleep - thus being a block in the path of our brothers and sisters and of ourselves.

Michael is holding up a real HUGE mirror IMHO.
He's doing a tremendously good job. This is breathtaking.
Not over yet. More to come. Did I say, I love this journey? I really do. From the bottom of my heart.
So grateful for Michael's patience. If anyone, he got it.

Gratitude thread?
God, am I blessed to live these days, to have been called into this place, to get to know Michael and grow myself everyday more. This is the most exciting deep sea dive I've ever agreed to undertake without knowing whether there'd be any oxygene or life support (or IV) down there - and yet I KNOW, I will get up and out as a new person and it will all be fine and better than ever.

EOW ? End of ME.

Blessings and much love to everybody - my deepest respect to Michael who just did it.

 bearhug
Oh how I bet Michael sat down for hours if not days to discuss with Doc Murray.
But not about Propofol LOL

L.O.V.E.

Grace, laughter, tears, clapping hands, yellin'  /woohoo/ and finally  bow/ were my reactions while I was reading your post! This HUGE mirror you were talking about is exactly what is Michael holding up in front of us, like he was singing "Man in the mirror" in TII "stand up.. stand up, look at yourself and make that change". You perfectly described my thoughts about Michael's plans and mission, in a bigger picture perspective. TMZ's casket and SWAT van article was one of the odd sort of spoofish articles of TMZ where I was "hmmm" thinking. My faith and amazement grew more and more during this journey . I love it and I'm also grateful to join all of you. Indeed, there's more to come, the journey ain't over yet, I've plenty of patience, it's definately worth it and I've a big suitcase with me lol.  
Quote
Oh how I bet Michael sat down for hours if not days to discuss with Doc Murray.
But not about Propofol LOL
 lolol/ I bet with you! Probably heavy discussions about the screenplay and acting techniques ;)).

Thanks Grace for your tremendously well written post.

I'm happy to be here, I wouldn't have missed this for the world and I thank ALL of you for your great posts here on this forum!

 bearhug

L.O.V.E.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: MJonmind on January 25, 2012, 04:53:44 PM
Quote
Oh how I bet Michael sat down for hours if not days to discuss with Doc Murray.But not about Propofol LOL

That's assuming he exists. ;)
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: VeryLittleSusie on January 25, 2012, 05:40:56 PM
Amazing post, Grace, and all of you guys... Knowing that Europe is going to sign ACTA tomorrow - now I'm starting to have all the pieces of the puzzle fit in my head...
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on January 25, 2012, 06:22:17 PM
Im_convinced linked to:
Quote
The "Sabbath" to Make a "Comeback" in 2012 in America (January 2012)
Faith leaders were asked for predictions for 2012. Look at one of the things that was stated ...
"Sabbath becomes trendy! Fourth Commandment makes a comeback! Sabbath named Time’s person of the year! A new movement sweeps the country. They call themselves 24/6. Worn out by being tethered to the grid 24/7, sick of being accessible all hours of the day, inundated by updates, upgrades, and breaking news, AMERICANS FINALLY REBEL, DEMANDING, "WE NEED A DAY OFF." People all over the country go offline for 24 hours every week. The simple break from the frenetic pace results in lowered cholesterol rates, fewer speeding tickets, and a reduction in marital strife. Peace, tranquility and contentment spread like wildfire."
This "sabbath" as we know will be Sunday!
News Article: (See point number 9)    http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/01/01/12-faith-based-predictions-for-2012/ (http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/01/01/12-faith-based-predictions-for-2012/)

Sign (TS)
Quote
Also, video of the ark and the tables of stone will be made public in the near future, shortly after the mark of the beast law is passed.).

It's possible that MJ has met and discussed the findings with Ron Wyatt, since he seems confident about what will be shown in the future. Talking one on one changes things, such as trustworthiness possibly. Perhaps MJ has met with political law-makers and knows about the NSL New Sunday Law, with certainty as well.


MJonmind-I can't tell if you think this is a good thing or bad thing based on the article you chose to post in this comment. The National Sunday Law is NOT a good thing at all. It is being sold to everyone as a good thing because people are tired of working with no day specified by law that they don't have to work. If the National Sunday Law goes into effect it will mean that people are taking the mark of the beast if they abide by that law. The reason people are/will take the mark of the beast is because they will be keeping the Sabbath on the wrong day. They wont even know it. This is why this info is so important now to us because we will know about the scheme and we can prepare to not take the mark of the beast. Saturday is the correct day of Sabbath (like Souza wrote). Sunday is the day Satan made us believe was the right day.

I realize that for right now most of the info regarding the National Sunday Law is geared towards America but it is said that once we (USA) make it mandatory as a law the rest of the countries will follow until the whole world is worshipping the beast. That link I posted has many articles about some countries already making this law enforcable. Here is another link I found regarding the issue.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/13224723/Enforced-Sunday-Law-Coming-Soon-To-America-by-Vance-Ferrell

The information you quoted from TS is not exclusive to him.
This link
http://www.wyattarchaeology.com/nsl.pdf I posted in my other comment where the booklet is available regarding the N.S.L. also has this info. http://www.wyattarchaeology.com/ark.htm
Quote
The time is coming when the inhabitants of the world will have a universal, religious law enforced upon them. This law will force man to break God's law, by penalty of disenfranchisement (being unable to buy or sell, Rev. 13:17). Some time after this law has been passed, God will allow the tables of stone (The 10 Commandments) and a good clear video of the Ark of the Covenant to be put on public display.
Scroll down to the first video. I believe that TS only tells us so much, like guiding us in the right direction but stops short of almost telling us everything. The rest is up to us to discover. ;)
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: MsTrinity333 on January 25, 2012, 07:18:19 PM
@ Bindupbrokenheart: Your posts were excellent.   /bravo/
Ron Wyatt is very controversial among the mainstream of Christianity.  There's some good and some bad so everyone please take him with a grain of salt, and don't be deceived.
I posted this earlier on the other site so will copy it here:


Just wanted to check in and let you know TS I saw the redirect.    ::P

My father passed away 1-16-2012 so I have been busy elsewhere making arrangements and will get back to studying & re-reading your post later. Right now I have a lot to handle. 
I love you TS; you know that.  That will never change, but I think you already know on this we will just need to agree to disagree on the Michael the Archangel / Jesus thing.  I understand where you are coming from, and why you would believe that with the whole Angel of the Lord thing which confuses a lot of people, but I believe as does most mainstream Christianity that the Bible supports & identifies them as two separate entities. 

I wish you well and will be back later.   :-*

Love to all 

 bearhug

PS:
I Just watched this today after my original post. I think it's relevant... WOW.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eucVQtdvQQ[/youtube]
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: wishingstar on January 25, 2012, 07:35:15 PM
@MsTrinity333.......I will keep you close in thought and prayer for the passing of your father.  You are such blessing here.  I hope you find peace and comfort knowing that friends are thinking of you.
Blessings to you always........
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: RK on January 25, 2012, 09:56:11 PM
We are talking in this topic about the Ark of the Covenant and the tablets of stone containing the commandments written with the finger of God that were placed inside the Ark.
The georgia guidestones also have a list of 10 commandments of the NWO's agenda. For comparison, this is their list.

Quote

THE MESSAGE OF THE GEORGIA GUIDESTONES
 
  1. Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature.
  2. Guide reproduction wisely - improving fitness and diversity.
  3. Unite humanity with a living new language.
  4. Rule passion - faith - tradition - and all things with tempered reason.
  5. Protect people and nations with fair laws and just courts.
  6. Let all nations rule internally resolving external disputes in a world court.
  7. Avoid petty laws and useless officials.
  8. Balance personal rights with social duties.
  9. Prize truth - beauty - love - seeking harmony with the infinite.
10. Be not a cancer on the earth - Leave room for nature - Leave room for nature.
 
Limiting the population of the earth to 500 million will require the extermination of nine-tenths of the world's people. The American Stonehenge's reference to establishing a world court foreshadows the current move to create an International Criminal Court and a world government. The Guidestones' emphasis on preserving nature anticipates the environmental movement of the 1990s, and the reference to "seeking harmony with the infinite" reflects the current effort to replace Judeo-Christian beliefs with a new spirituality.

I am once again totally speechless at the audacity and pride of man to raise his fist in defiance at the laws of the Living God.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: mjfansince4 on January 25, 2012, 10:03:44 PM

@Curls, TS has been very clear that Michael will return before 2013.  ;)



Being realistic here, I have to say TS (normally) has a way of wording things that allows for changes of plans. He (almost) always leaves space for a 'get-out' if needed. It's a skill he has in writing that I actually admire greatly, even though it's exasperating at times!

I say 'normally' and 'almost' because in the first section of this Ark redirect (quoted below), he appears not to leave any room for doubt/change of heart or plan - and this is very uncharacteristic of him.

"It should also be clearly stated at this point that the world will not end on 12-21-2012; but it will end shortly after 2012! How long is “shortly”? Nobody knows a specific date; but it will probably be within the next few years (nobody living on earth now is going to grow old, unless you’re nearly there already). How can we be sure that this is true? If you keep watching, you will learn how, soon enough."

i've stayed away from commenting in this thread because i don't know about the direction this is all going. however, i've read every post here trying to learn. i decided to sit back and watch how this all plays out.

i must say the quote curls uses from TS confuses me (and upsets  me). how does TS know the world will end soon after 2012? and pardon me, but am i the only one upset by the claim that we "won't live to grow old?" i'm not necessarily afraid of death, but i will certainly feel that i was cheated from experience and my purpose. i believe in the Bible that God says no one knows when the world will end. i don't think Michael knows. i don't think TS knows. unless TS is God and is up in heaven on his holy wifi giving us these updates, then i think he should be careful with these statements. people will (and have) started to question his role.

unless......and i could be reading this completely out of context....TS said the world will end "shortly after 2012." he did not clarify that it was after dec. 31 2012. he DID state that it won't end 12. 21. 12 (questionable because i don't think anyone knows for certain). what if this is all alluding to the bam. the world as we know it (meaning without Michael) will end after 2012 (1.1.12) but not on 12. 21. 12.  (maybe before that date). i don't know. i'm throwing it out there.

but i think the end of the world will be God's BAM. just like no one knows Michael's, no one knows God's.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: MJonmind on January 25, 2012, 11:15:43 PM
MsTrinity333, my condolences to you in the loss of your father. May God bring you comfort, and may you feel the love here as well.

MJfansince4
Quote
but i think the end of the world will be God's BAM. just like no one knows Michael's, no one knows God's.
Yes, all very mysterious/seeming impossible.


Im_Convinced, yes I agree with you. I have studied SDA teaching in the past.

Edit: (After reading Bec's post below which I agree is the right attitude to have! Silly me crash/ 

RK, I agree those Georgia Guidestones are downright scary  interesting!
They remind me of (not sure if these have been noted before) the Jewish Noahide Laws (and the New World Court) which are:
Quote
The Seven Noahide Laws

1.    Idolatry is forbidden. Man is commanded to believe in the One G-d alone and worship only Him.
2.     Incestuous and adulterous relations are forbidden. Human beings are not sexual objects, nor is pleasure the ultimate goal of life.
3.     Murder is forbidden. The life of a human being, formed in G-d's image, is sacred.
4.     Cursing the name of G-d is forbidden. Besides honoring and respecting G-d, we learn from this precept that our speech must be sanctified, as that is the distinctive sign which separated man from the animals.
5.     Theft is forbidden. The world is not ours to do with as we please.
6.     Eating the flesh of a living animal is forbidden. This teaches us to be sensitive to cruelty to animals. (This was commanded to Noah for the first time along with the permission of eating meat. The rest were already given to Adam in the Garden of Eden.)
7.     Mankind is commanded to establish courts of justice and a just social order to enforce the first six laws and enact any other useful laws or customs.
http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/noahide.html (http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/noahide.html)

The scary danger thing for Christians to keep in mind, about these laws especially tied to the New World Court is:
Quote
According to the Noahide Laws if one believes in the Messiah Yahushua, then they are guilty of Idolatry. To add fuel to the fire, if you speak the name of Eloah, you have Blasphemed, guilty as charged, outcome decapitation.

“NATIONAL ISSUE: One Court For All The World? A United Nations meeting in Rome is wrapping up five weeks of work on a proposed international criminal court. The new court would have worldwide jurisdiction and could investigate, indict, hold, try, and punish, those who committed certain crimes. The proposed international court would subject Americans to a new world authority... "Were talking about creating here something that exercises genuine power, real put-people-in-jail power, but that is responsible to no one but itself." said Lee Casey, a constitutional lawyer with the Washington firm of Hunton & Williams. [Investment Business Daily, Thursday July 16, 1998 Los Angeles, California]”
That old rugged machine is back! Guillotines, by the millions are being stored in Georgia and other parts of the United States. Bill #1274 of the Georgia House of Representatives- 1995/1996 Sessions HB 1274 - Death penalty; guillotine provisions Code Sections - 17-10-38/ 17-10-44:

"And I saw thrones – and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them – and the lives of those who had been beheaded because of the witness they bore to Yahushua and because of the Word of Elohim, and who did not worship the beast, nor his image, and did not receive his mark upon their foreheads or upon their hands. And they lived and reigned with Messiah for a thousand years" (Revelation 20:4)
http://bewareofthenoahidelaws.followersofyah.com/ (http://bewareofthenoahidelaws.followersofyah.com/)
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: bec on January 25, 2012, 11:30:26 PM
That statement bothers me too, mjfansince4.

I'm sitting here most nights unable to verbalize my thoughts re: all this. There's just a bunch of scattered emotions currently. This too shall pass.

But that statement does stick out as bothersome.

Ps. I don't think we need to worry about a law passing in regards to a Sunday Sabbath in the US. No major country could survive economically, especially right now, on a federally enforced 6 day work week. The service and entertainment industries would be crippled, for starters. It would never make it through the House. it wouldn't even make it to a bill considering the non-secular nature of the proposed legislation. You be hard pressed to find anyone in Government to sponsor it, much less support such an anti business/anti-capitalism/anti-economic growth political stance.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: bec on January 25, 2012, 11:34:24 PM
Who was it that was just saying, Stop Being Afraid,?

That's one emotion that I can do without. Wise words, anonymous friend, we do need to stop being afraid. Fear induced paranoia is what got this country into some super major shit in the first place, a few/ten years ago now. They use fear to make us compliant. So we "need" them to "rescue" us.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: MJonmind on January 25, 2012, 11:48:07 PM
Who was it that was just saying, Stop Being Afraid,?

That's one emotion that I can do without. Wise words, anonymous friend, we do need to stop being afraid. Fear induced paranoia is what got this country into some super major shit in the first place, a few/ten years ago now. They use fear to make us compliant. So we "need" them to "rescue" us.
You're right, so I changed my post above.  :D
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on January 26, 2012, 01:37:00 AM
Quote
1. The First of Seven Signs

This is the first of 7 signs, which warn about the end of the world (EOW); all 7 of these signs will be published this year (2012). Sign #1 here is information about the true ark of the covenant: it’s meaning and importance, and how to clearly and unmistakably distinguish it from all the counterfeit arks out there. There is a wealth of information here, which has never been published until now; some elements have been in the public realm for many years, but much of this information—and especially the bigger picture—is now (on 1-21-12) coming out for the very first time in history.

Although there will be a wide range of reactions to this information, the intent and purpose of this message is not to create fear; instead, it is a message to become educated and prepare for what is on the horizon. Also, it is true that through the years, decades, and even centuries: there have been many false alarms about the EOW. What makes this warning any different? By the end of Sign #1, and especially by the end of Sign #7, the answer to that question should be overwhelmingly obvious.

It should also be clearly stated at this point that the world will not end on 12-21-2012; but it will end shortly after 2012! How long is “shortly”? Nobody knows a specific date; but it will probably be within the next few years (nobody living on earth now is going to grow old, unless you’re nearly there already). How can we be sure that this is true? If you keep watching, you will learn how, soon enough.


The message one receives from TS is all in how you interpret it. The comment about nobody living on earth now is going to grow old, unless you’re nearly there already... is referring to nobody growing old NOT nobody is going to be alive as in we are going to die. But there is criteria. The prophesies are coming true and Revelation 21 talks about a new earth and new heaven and there will be no more death. Like TS said if you keep watching you will learn how soon enough. He already stated his message wasn't to create fear just awareness.  rr/

So because I believe what the Bible says, that there will be no more death, by the time Revelation 21 happens IF we are still alive during that time we will stop aging and we will live forever in the age we are when it happens. So we won't grow old.
If I only make it to 45 and then live forever after that I am down for that.
/woohoo/

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2021&version=NLT
Quote
Revelation 21
The New Jerusalem

1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the old heaven and the old earth had disappeared. And the sea was also gone. 2 And I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven like a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.

3 I heard a loud shout from the throne, saying, “Look, God’s home is now among his people! He will live with them, and they will be his people. God himself will be with them. 4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes, and there will be no more death or sorrow or crying or pain. All these things are gone forever.”

5 And the one sitting on the throne said, “Look, I am making everything new!” And then he said to me, “Write this down, for what I tell you is trustworthy and true.” 6 And he also said, “It is finished! I am the Alpha and the Omega—the Beginning and the End. To all who are thirsty I will give freely from the springs of the water of life. 7 All who are victorious will inherit all these blessings, and I will be their God, and they will be my children.

Quote
21. The Truth Will Prevail

God has provided the ark of safety for the EOW, just like he provided an ark of safety in the days of Noah. But this time, the ark of safety is not a boat; it’s not even a physical location at all. The safety lies only in knowing and following the true ark, and the truth which it reveals. “The Final Ark of Safety” is not any particular location, organization, or religion; it is simply the truth—nothing more, nothing less. The truth will prevail; so follow the truth, and you will prevail with the truth.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: emulik on January 26, 2012, 02:24:41 AM
What if MJ is not planning on Bamming until after the EOW, in the 'new world' that he believes is coming?  Then only those who make it to the 'other side', if there is to be one, will ever see him again. I'm beginning to wonder if I will go to my grave with my family still thinking I'm nuts for believing he is alive.  :cry:

Curls......have faith.  Michael said in TII, it's all an adventure....nothing to be afraid of.  I truly believe that Michael knows full well what's going here and in the hearts of believers.  For me, after reading this amazing thread and all that TS has posted over the past 2.5 years, I have made it to "the other side".  My heart is a much better place along with my mind. 

I feel like I am late to the ball in posting on this thread.  However, I enjoy each post so much, my mind races with thoughts in all directions.  Yet it was Grace's recent post about the farewell to the entertainer that made me realize, once again, the magnitude of this adventure called hoax.  It did indeed begin with the unyielding pain of death of someone I admired for years.  Michael was always more than just an entertainer to me.  Although, I can't exactly put into words what.  I never worshipped him like a mega-fan....there was a reverence I felt from the moment I first saw him as a boy.  His eyes told me something more.  Through the years, I loved, loved his music, his art, his style....though it was always a different level for me.  Like watching "divinity in motion"....he was truly gifted.  I don't feel that way about many artists.  Grace's post about the memorial being something more makes it crystal clear to me that June 25th as a whole was a metaphor for all things good.  It was a day of metaphoric death for a person I saw as divinely gifted.  I thought this very thought on June 25th, "if God gave such a gift to the world, why would he take it away....." It's only now that those words are proving to be the crux of my belief in Michael.  It's never been a secret Michael loves God.  Many celebrities thank God on stage after receiving an award.  It's the only time they acknowledge God at all.  Michael shared the love of God openly....and truly. The notion that this hoax has turned into a religious cavern of thought is true......all led by Michael.  It truly is a modern door-to-door way to discover things about God and religion as a whole.  It's an adventure of "beliefs"....of faiths.  To truly believe in Michael and his message, one must be willing to see how faith works in the heart.  Having faith doesn't always mean believing in God.   Having faith is believing in what you can not see.  At the moment, that something is Michael.  We can't see him physically, or can we?  I am 101% convinced he is here among us....ever writing, ever posting and guiding.  Who knows....perhaps I am completely nuts...right there with you curls, lol.  However, in my heart I feel it....and my heart doesn't lie.  My mind has the power to over-ride positive thoughts with seeds of doubt and despair.  However, it's only been through this adventure my mind has become stronger and more able to defend against those negative thoughts. 

This thread has proven very powerful in sustaining my belief that there is so much more to come.  It was never just about the death of a pop star.  It was never only for entertainment.....though it is incredibly entertaining on a whole different level.  The reasons for the hoax will come out in time.  "The truth will prevail".....what truth is that statement really talking about?  The truth of June 25th?  The truth of Michael's complete innocence? The truth of Jesus?  The truth of the Ark? 7 truths perhaps?

Michael's hoax was, is, and will be the greatest adventure of our lifetime.  To learn something in a totally new way is amazing to me.  If Michael knocked on my door, with a Bible in hand.....yes, I'd let him in.  However, I'd be so mesmerized I couldn't concentrate on the importance of the message.  Well Michael....knock knock.....I am totally concentrated on the the message now.  You have my full attention...........thank you. 

Curls...please have faith.  Everything will work out.  You are an amazing member here.  Your posts have inspired me to no end!  Thank you so much for all the hard work and effort you put in.  It truly shows.....surely Michael is very proud of you!

@BeTheChange.....your posts always make me fall over in amazement.  What you said about the "hoax portion" ending in November was brilliant.  It totally fits with what we are experiencing.  The words "truth" and "love" are what matters.  In all aspects of life those two things need to have the prevailing lead.  Without them, we are nothing.  With them, we are fulfilled.  Thank you, my friend, you always shed light on what I need to realize most.  *taking that collective deep breath now*

I will continue to poor over this thread and the new website TS directed to.  Thank you to all that posted so much here.....love you all!
Blessings Always
Wishingstar, thank you for your positive post! it was pleasure to read! bounce/
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: emulik on January 26, 2012, 02:29:43 AM



Hi Shybleueyes, please do not feel like you do not contribute here, because you DO! I like your comments, they are always so kind :)
I think everybody contributes here by visiting this forum and showing love and care for Michael.
Have a nice day! bearhug

Quote
@Emulik, Thank you for your very sweet words,  bearhug you make me happy for just reading my post.

I did already know you are very sweet and loving THANK U

 Wish you LOVE and happiness  :)

thank you :) you are very sweet too and one of the members here I like, really bearhug
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: MJonmind on January 26, 2012, 04:37:48 AM
I just got done watching this video of Ron Wyatt that TS linked to in Sign #1.  I had previously maybe almost 2 years ago seen one video of him telling about Christ's special blood, because someone told me about it.  I’m not now making any opinion of whether I think RW’s finding is true or not. I'm just saying a little about it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfYpYv_A4Ns (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfYpYv_A4Ns)

Aussie, I noticed that Ron Wyatt talks lots about the Holy Spirit, and seems to believe in the trinity, but TS doesn’t mention the HS.  What is the JW teaching on the HS? Thanks in advance!

Interesting that the 2 earthquakes match with RW’s claim, the one when Jesus died, supposedly opening the crack beneath him for the blood to fall on the mercy seat, then the other just after he was resurrected 2+ days later in the tomb location, but which supposedly closed the crack to the location of the ark, to seal it from air and moisture for 2000 years.  Makes one wonder why would God have caused them at all, if not for some practical purpose such as this. (I know the Bible says some graves opened and some people came alive and showed themselves to people. Also the earthquake could be perhaps for God to show Jesus was someone special.) But RW's is a more realistic reason for me!

Ron tells a story of when he was young that he stole something from a store, and felt so guilty about it, that he went back, purchased another one and then went back to put it back on the shelf. That way he didn’t have to confess his crime. I guess he’s trying to show that he wants to be honest and believable. 

One of the most interesting things to me, is that he said he was going to give copies of this video he shot in the underground chamber  to people he trusts around the world, which will be shown on TV in the future.  I’m wondering now if he may have given this video to Michael, who may show it to us in a future Sign. He said he was waiting for an angel to tell him who to give the video to.  I wonder how his death affects this process.  I’m assuming that this same angel protected RW from the usual danger, while removing the 2 tables of stone written on on 4 sides in proto-aramaic, and taking the blood sample. 

Actually he said the 4 angels guarding the ark, lifted up the mercy seat so he could remove them.  Later on there were 6 Israelis that died trying to remove the ark, so there’s been no more attempts, and the ark remains there.  Angels are seen in this coming video.  He went into the chamber alone, and so if anyone else claims to have seen it, they are lying.  He said the Ark was put in that underground chamber in 586 BC just before Solomon’s temple was destroyed, and that he is the first and only person to have seen it since that time, specially chosen by God.

RW seems very conservative evangelical Christian to me, very concerned for the lost, that they should trust in Jesus, and the audience seemed to believe his story was true. Well, that’s basically what stood out to me.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: BeTheChange on January 26, 2012, 09:29:28 AM
MsTrinity...my heartfelt condolences to you and your family during this difficult time.  May you continue to see and feel God's light in times of darkness.

@bec...I agree that it is very difficult to imagine a Sunday Sabbath 'law' being passed.  I remember when I was very little (this may 'date' me lol)...there was very little 'business' that would take place here in Canada on Sunday's (pretty much all stores were closed...and if I remember correctly, they were legally NOT able to be open).  Then a 'law' was passed giving businesses the option to open up on Sunday's and although it was initially met with much controversy (because people believed that Sunday was the Sabbath)...most businesses opened their doors immediately; before long, it became the 'norm' for everyone.  I don't see this being reversed now because neither businesses nor the public would want it to.  Given the 'unlikely' odds of this happening...if it were to somehow become a 'mainstream' topic of discussion and/or if it were introduced as a bill in consideration....I think it would be a HUGE sign of things to come.  It's definitely something to keep an eye/ear open to.

@Im_convinced...I completely agree with your interpretation of The Sign's last post re: the statement of 'not growing old'.  I've mentioned before that at NO time while reading the post did I feel 'fear' of any kind...I felt a million other things but not fear.  Regardless of what The Sign said...I have always believed in God's promise of 'eternity' and the magnificent splendor of the New Earth, where time ceases to exist as we know it (hence, no death, no aging). 

So because I believe what the Bible says, that there will be no more death, by the time Revelation 21 happens IF we are still alive during that time we will stop aging and we will live forever in the age we are when it happens. So we won't grow old.

I'm wondering if God is 'strict' on that point lol....cause if given the choice, I'd pick a younger age than my current one  :lol:

As for the 'Ark' discussion, I'm still REALLY confused over it because of how I'm interpreting God's laws regarding 'idolatry'...both in making 'idols' and in bowing down or worshipping them.  I posted about this conundrum that is causing a 'stumbling block' for me in a previous post...and I think it was only MJonmind that commented saying she sees it as a 'paradox' as well.  I would REALLY be interested in hearing others' interpretations regarding this (Souza, Im_convinced, Aussie, anyone help???).  I'm still feeling VERY 'weary' or cautious about the 'intent' behind the surfacing of this Ark 'object'.

@Wish and MJonmind...your posts are always an inspiration for me and you both have taught me SO much over the course of our friendship.  I am so thankful for having met you both, and all the other wonderful, brilliant, loving souls I got to meet during this wild and crazy adventure. 

With L.O.V.E. always.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Adi on January 26, 2012, 10:07:21 AM
Been watching and reading everything.......

I might be able to contribute when I have something worthwhile to add to the discussion.

That's all for now.

Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: curls on January 26, 2012, 12:08:50 PM

As for the 'Ark' discussion, I'm still REALLY confused over it because of how I'm interpreting God's laws regarding 'idolatry'...both in making 'idols' and in bowing down or worshipping them.  I posted about this conundrum that is causing a 'stumbling block' for me in a previous post...and I think it was only MJonmind that commented saying she sees it as a 'paradox' as well.  I would REALLY be interested in hearing others' interpretations regarding this (Souza, Im_convinced, Aussie, anyone help???).  I'm still feeling VERY 'weary' or cautious about the 'intent' behind the surfacing of this Ark 'object'.


Well seeing as you asked BeTheChange, I too thought of this as soon as great debate began about 'an object' with so much supposed importance. It doesn't tie in with what I personally understand of God's laws. Sorry I didn't chime in before - I'm really just watching here!
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Sarahli on January 26, 2012, 01:56:51 PM
Concerning idolatry in regards to the Ark, I think that it’s not something that is to be “considered” as it’s God Himself who asked and thought Moses how to build it. We have its description in the Bible so if we believe that the Ark is real based on the Bible then we must accept that it’s God Himself who commanded it to be built regardless of potential idolatry.

If people worship the Ark itself I think that it’s also part of the test of faith as God is very clear that only Him is God to be worshipped. So anyone who follows truthfully this commandment will not worship the Ark itself but the One who sent it and will just believe in the truth that it contains.

Concerning the law of the beast which I am still unsure what it is really about (what is the mark of the beast then?) I think we need not forget that the evil side operate with the problem-reaction-solution concept, so they may well create the problem themselves like for example the biggest economic crisis ever to be able to pass any unlawful law they want. It's happened like that many times with people not questionning but complying. So maybe that before this law is passed an "event" will happen to make it look like it's the panacea.

JMO.  respect/
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: AKHTONI on January 26, 2012, 02:20:42 PM
How about the muslims beliefs: this is from wiki:
Quote
In chapter 2 of the Islamic Quran (Verse 248), the Children of Israel, at the time of Samuel and Saul, were given back the Tabut E Sakina (the casket of Shekhinah) which contained remnants of the household of Musa (Moses) and Harun (Aaron) carried by angels which confirmed peace and reassurance for them from their Lord. The Qur'an states:
 

And (further) their Prophet said to them: "A Sign of his authority is that there shall come to you the Ark of the covenant, with (an assurance) therein of security (Sakina) from your Lord, and the relics left by the family of Moses and the family of Aaron, carried by angels. In this is a symbol for you if ye indeed have faith.[18]
 
The Islamic scholar Al Baidawi mentioned that the sakina could be Tawrat, the Books of Moses.[19] According to Al-Jalalan, the relics in the Ark were the fragments of the two tablets, rods, robes, shoes, mitres of Moses and the vase of manna.[19] Al-Tha'alibi, in Qisas Al-Anbiya (The Stories of the Prophets), has given an earlier and later history of the Ark.
 
According to most Muslim scholars, the Ark of the Covenant has a religious basis in Islam, and Islam gives it special significance. Shia sect of Muslims believe that it will be found by Mahdi near the end of times from Lake Tiberias.[20]
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: BeTheChange on January 26, 2012, 03:08:28 PM
@curls and Sarahli...thanks so much for your input.  As I mentioned, I think my interpretation is what is causing me confusion.  But my 'problem' extends beyond that, I guess.  If broken down (and this is just how I think of it, while fully respecting others' interpretations), my being 'unsure' stems from:

The Bible clearly states the 'description' of an Ark and it clearly states that it was God's will that it be 'created'.  On that alone, one must first believe in God (which I do, so that part is a non-issue for me) AND one must believe that God, indeed, 'commissioned' an earthly Ark to be made.  On a deeper level, this also means that one must believe and 'trust' that the information in the Bible about the Ark, written by 'man, was 'interpreted' correctly by those who wrote it and by those who've read it (and there's many different interpretations out there over just about every aspect of the Bible). 

To believe God 'asked' for this object to be built is difficult for me to understand because it would be an object housing 'laws' that forbid the making of such objects  :?  Also, God HAD to know that such an object would be worshipped---which ALSO goes against HIS 'laws' it housed.  So even if I take the leap in faith and believe that God DID ask for it to be made...I still can't/don't understand it (I know...trying to 'understand' God is no easy task, and perhaps we're not meant to).  As a parent myself (and I consider God to be THE father of ALL)...if I knew that one of my 'possessions' would cause a war between my children over ownership of it or that instead of loving me, they'd love and want this 'possession'...especially if I had raised them to NOT focus on or 'worship' material possessions----I'd get rid of it.  What 'pleasure' would this 'object' bring me or my children in the end?  I know the comparison between us as parents and God in all His wisdom isn't a great one lol....but a lot of my parenting comes from what I 'think' God would do or how He'd handle a certain situation.  And the only thing I can come up with...IF He asked for an Ark to be built, knowing full well that it would be worshipped AND could cause war...is that it was and still is some kind of test.

We had no say in the 'making' of it...so if there was some sort of 'sin' involved (i.e. a breaking of God's law), it was not our doing...it was not our test.  But we do have a say in how we 'treat' this Ark should it 'appear'.  And the more I think about it, the more I know (or hope) that should it appear, I will NOT bow down to it nor worship it nor support any 'side' that chooses war because of it.  I may be wrong in saying that and it may end up being the wrong choice (not supporting either 'side' in THAT battle)...but at least I'll know that I followed God's law, as I interpreted it.  How can that be a wrong choice in God's eyes?

If it's not a 'test'...the only other thing I can think of is that it is God's ultimate 'proof' for a world that sadly still needs confirmation in order to fully beLIEve.

With L.O.V.E. always.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: GINAFELICIA on January 26, 2012, 03:09:40 PM
TS you say as like it's a certainty the world won't end on 12/21/2012.
How can you be sure it won't end that day, as long as in the Bible it is written that nobody knows the exact moment? So how can you know it won't end that day? Doesn't this come against the Bible?
.......................
@AKHTONI - I like your signature.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: AKHTONI on January 26, 2012, 03:33:59 PM

.......................
@AKHTONI - I like your signature.
Thanks very much GINAFELICIA  bearhug penguin/
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: rswilley2011 on January 26, 2012, 04:22:56 PM
TS you say as like it's a certainty the world won't end on 12/21/2012.
How can you be sure it won't end that day, as long as in the Bible it is written that nobody knows the exact moment? So how can you know it won't end that day? Doesn't this come against the Bible?
.......................
@AKHTONI - I like your signature.

@Gina: Since millions of people expect something that day, that pretty much GUARANTEES it won't happen that day (since no man knows the day or hour of Jesus' return). But the scriptures DO say that if we study them, and gain knowledge and wisdom, it won't take us by surprise (since it tells us to keep an eye out).
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: MJonmind on January 26, 2012, 05:16:04 PM

BeTheChange, I think it's not so much the Ark at all, it's all about the Blood.  Whose is it, what are its properties, and how does the blood fit with Michael the Archangel and Michael Jackson?  I believe we're going to be reading of miracles and more Signs.  It's all about the blood, and it's going to be a miracle.  In Cry, the choir sings "You're the Chosen One", and Michael sings "I'm going to need some kind of sign". He sings that "they", not "we", don't know when it's all going to end, though he sings "I" twice. Stories buried could include the Ark.  "They'll be no more wars", could only be after the return of Christ, Michael the Archangel.  Finally he sings, "I will answer all your prayers."  I believe the Sign he's looking for could be the "transfer" of the blood to Michael.  MJ once said, "Have mercy for I have been bleeding for a long time."  Remember the bloody shirt 'In the closet', but now coming out to the world, priced $3.99 = 21 = 777.


Cry
Quote

[Verse 1]
Somebody shakes when the wind blows
Somebody's missing a friend, hold on
Somebody's lacking a hero
And they have not a clue
When it's all gonna end


[Verse 2]
Stories buried and untold
Someone is hiding the truth, hold on
When will this mystery unfold

And will the sun ever shine
In the blind man's eyes when he cries?

[Chorus:]
You can change the world (I can't do it by myself)
You can touch the sky (Gonna take somebody's help)
You're the chosen one (I'm gonna need some kind of sign)
If we all cry at the same time tonight

[Verse 3]
People laugh when they're feelin sad
Someone is taking a life, hold on
Respect to believe in your dreams
Tell me where were you
when your children cried last night?

[Verse 4]
Faces fill with madness
Miracles unheard of, hold on
Faith is found in the winds
All we have to do
Is reach for the truth


[Chorus]

And when that flag blows
There'll be no more wars
And when all calls
I will answer all your prayers

[Chorus x3]

Change the world
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: GINAFELICIA on January 26, 2012, 05:17:43 PM
TS you say as like it's a certainty the world won't end on 12/21/2012.
How can you be sure it won't end that day, as long as in the Bible it is written that nobody knows the exact moment? So how can you know it won't end that day? Doesn't this come against the Bible?
.......................
@AKHTONI - I like your signature.

@Gina: Since millions of people expect something that day, that pretty much GUARANTEES it won't happen that day (since no man knows the day or hour of Jesus' return). But the scriptures DO say that if we study them, and gain knowledge and wisdom, it won't take us by surprise (since it tells us to keep an eye out).
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+24%3A36&version=KJV
"Matthew 24:36
King James Version (KJV)

36But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."

So if nobody knows about that day, only God, I think nobody could tell exactly that it won't be a certain day.
Not even Michael Jackson can know about the end day >>>> this implies he can not know about the day the end won't come.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: curls on January 26, 2012, 05:37:15 PM

@rswilley, I disagree - I  suspect many more millions are (arrogantly, maybe) thinking it ridiculous to believe something will happen on that day, so to my mind, that makes it a perfect day for God to do whatever it is he has to do!

@Gina, I agree that unless MJ, TS, The Sign, is God, they cannot know the world will not end on 21st December. I highlighted this earlier as an uncharacteristicaly bold statement by The Sign (if he's TS, that is).

[Sorry, I haven't quoted the relevant posts, I'm having real problems composing posts today - one I tried first thing this morning keeps reappearing in the box you write in, even though I abandonned it and have been offline since. Fingers crossed for this one!]
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: dasb00b on January 26, 2012, 06:08:39 PM
For those struggling with the commandment about God not wanting idols, I was reminded of the blog post Kelly Clarkson posted shortly after Amy Winehouse's death. And it sort of puts a different perspective on it so I thought i'd share:

Quote
"I heard the news about Amy Winehouse. I'm incredibly sad. I didn't know her but I met her a few times and got to hear her sing before she blew up. She was a beautiful and talented girl. I'm angry. What a waste of a gifted person. What a shame she saw no hope and continued living her life in that manor. I have been that low emotionally and mentally and that is overwhelming. I keep asking myself why some of us are spared and the others are made examples. I'm very angry and sad. I don't know why it's bothering me so much. Sometimes I think this job will be the death of us all, or at least the emotional death of us all. Maybe that is why as a little kid in sunday school I learned that God didn't want false gods or idols. I thought it was terribly selfish of God as a child but I think I get it now. He didn't want us following people or things that are imperfect and not so much for the followers but for the gods and/or idols who will never be what everyone wishes or needs them to be because we are made imperfect. He knew we wouldn't be able to handle the pressure, the shame, the glory, or the power the spotlight brings. I am distraught. I am also extremely grateful and thankful for the people who love me and support me. Without such amazing friends and family who knows where I'd be. My thoughts and prayers are with her friends and family. I am so sorry for your loss. I pray for peace in your hearts."
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Dontwalkaway on January 26, 2012, 06:29:06 PM
MJonMind, 

Yes, I also think the blood is important.   The blood from the ark and also the bloody shirt found in Michaels closet.  What do you mean by the transfer of blood to Michael ?  I was thinking it could be some type of match with chromosomes,genes, or the number of chromosomes.   Ron Wyatt also said that the blood came back to life with a water solution.  Maybe this is the miracle I was waiting for using water !!!!  On one of the videos about it they said you needed water, blood and the holy spirit.

I'm getting so happy and excited but I will research and watch and "let it simmer".  BeTheChange you had a good point when saying that , if God's law is not to worship items then why are we looking for an item ?  Getting the physical ark can cause conflicts, deceit,lies and wars just like you said.   So maybe the laws, faith and the blood are important and not really the physical ark ??    The ark is just really God's contract or promise to us which was signed using blood ?

Love to All

Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: GodhaschosenMJ on January 26, 2012, 06:40:09 PM
Hello fellow hoaxers! I know I haven't been posting on this forum much for awhile now! Family duties and my husband being so against this has kept me away. But I have read all the post on this thread and on the other forum where my name is GodHasChosenTS!!!! I also believe Sunday is the false day of worship instituted by MAN not God. And Sabbath is Saturday the seventh day of the week! Souza you amaze me, how much you know after studying with your Bible teacher!

God Bless to everyone, lets keep an open mind and look at the evidences. I also believe RW findings are correct. Looking for the next Sign!!
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: GINAFELICIA on January 27, 2012, 01:10:18 AM
@curls - you have any idea why TS made that statement? There must be an explanation.

Anyway, I still have to read that post in detail, I've read only half of it.

from rswilley2011
Quote
Since millions of people expect something that day, that pretty much GUARANTEES it won't happen that day (since no man knows the day or hour of Jesus' return)

It makes sense but this logic can not be above the scripture that says nobody knows that day.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: MJonmind on January 27, 2012, 02:10:26 AM
Dontwalkaway,
Quote
What do you mean by the transfer of blood to Michael ?


Well, I know this seems a stretch, but somewhere along the line we're going to have to see a miracle if we believe the Bible--whether Jesus coming in the clouds, Michael's blood and body being changed to immortal, or our bodies either resurrected and/or changed to forever young, as TS declares confidently.

Here's Back:
Quote
On 6-25-09, tIME took a literal backseat to the mOMENt. I could always "see" a Silhouette on a Grand-stage, once again taking over the World. Perhaps also parallel in holding to our proclamation that this was NOT a "comeback", but a take-over. This was it. And in a thunderous sense,----- it was. It just didn't dawn on me that that Grand Stage would be in the Heavens; A visual Staple-d to the Center of our minds for all eternity.

Physically--no more, but with us in an eternal Angelic presence. We witnessed the beginning of this transfer on 7/7 of this historical year.

As History has shown, reflected through the books and logics of many faiths, Prophets do and have walked amongst us. They have sometimes been Angels in the temporary casts of both tIME and human flesh. And in their allotted tIME, their purposes have most often been message DeLIVErance.


July 7, 09 was the Memorial service, but I don't know what could have transferred there, other than taking the coffin to Forest Lawn. The context seems to be MJ as angelic. If the transfer belief is his spirit going up to heaven, then that would have been on June 25th. 


The word "transfer" means:

Quote

(transitive verb)
-to convey from one person, place, or situation to another

a: move (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/move), shift (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/shift)
b : to cause to pass from one to another : transmit (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/transmit)
c : transform (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/transform), change (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/change)

-to make over the possession or control of : convey (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/convey)
-to print or otherwise copy from one surface to another by contact
intransitive verb
-to move to a different place, region, or situation; especially: to withdraw from one educational institution to enroll at another

Collosians 1:13
Quote
For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,


2 Kings 2:12-15
After Elijah is taken up, his power is transferred to Elisha.



Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: curls on January 27, 2012, 02:29:25 AM
@curls - you have any idea why TS made that statement? There must be an explanation.


He must be God! Or he must be into even more cryptic, hidden-meaning, nothing-is-as-it-seems type writing than usual, if that is even possible. He'd just better not claim it as successful foretelling the future when nothing happens on that date!

@MJonmind, you seem to be stopping just short of saying MJ is dead, in your post just now.  Dead and now an 'Angelic presence'. Is this really where you're going with this?  errrr
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: MJonmind on January 27, 2012, 02:39:26 AM
 :lol:  Oh no, never dead!  Very much alive-- I'm just toying with semantics! :D  You know, moving puzzle pieces around.
What else can we do, until further insight from Front or TS?


Curls
Quote
He'd just better not claim it as successful foretelling the future when nothing happens on that date!


Right, when someone makes big claims which don't come true, they're in big trouble.  Mind you Jesus hasn't showed up yet either.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: curls on January 27, 2012, 02:51:12 AM
:lol:  Oh no, never dead!  Very much alive-- I'm just toying with semantics! :D  You know, moving puzzle pieces around.
What else can we do, until further insight from Front or TS?


 :lol: Ah, that's ok then! 'Bleep bleep' semantics - why can't people talk/write clearly?!!   /scream/
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: SimPattyK on January 27, 2012, 03:43:55 AM
[...]Wishingstar, you and BeTheChange's posts are just so poignant and heart-stirring. [...]
+1 ;)

I also adore your posts, MjonMind, Grace, Sarahli
 bearhug
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: jono on January 27, 2012, 04:45:17 AM
I bet MJ is having a good laugh reading this thread! Some of the statements in here are just downright funny!  lolol/

And sometimes he probably go something like this:  /overreacting/

Haha!  :lol: :lol:

Love you guys! bearhug
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: paula-c on January 27, 2012, 09:00:40 AM
The Ark of the Covenant and Ron Wyatt
By: Julian Cano Rave

Before entering the discussion on archaeological disputes and Ron Wyatt, it is important to mention that Ron was a faithful Christian, the seventh-day Adventist until the final day of his days. While on deathbed, a reporter for http://www.wnd.com/ (worldNetDailyNews) interviewed him to determine if Ron still on the brink of death claimed his allegations about his discoveries, including the arc of the Covenant. Ron response was clear. Ron maintained that everything that was said and done it was true.

When I interviewed him in WAPA Radio a few years ago I told him to pesonalmente to Ron and listened them to the interview by radio that if the he was lying, I would not be in their shoes, because the information given by Ron so questioned or complete harmony with the sky if it was true or in direct confrontation, if it was a lie. The impression I received that day, days and years, and I give testimony to that, was that Ron was a very honest, God-fearing, eager to do the will of God and that his main reason for sharing with the public their knowledge and findings, was the motivating a profound study of the word of God, and accept Jesus Christ as Savior. Ron also explained that none of the discoveries were required to substantiate their faith or the other, but understood that there were people who were going to get to the feet of God through these discoveries and for this reason the shared them.

Although I was that some will not believe or will doubt the following words, meeting necessary to know what Ron told me personally and to present fellow when I interviewed him in my house: Ron explained that in one of the occasions when the came to the cave where he was the Ark of the Covenant and the 10 commandments written with the finger of Godan Angel told him that when United States declares federal Sunday law, sometime later, the Lord will make the tables of the law so that they are a testimony to the whole world that his holy law has not been changed and remains forever, and that the fourth commandment, which talks about the day of the Lord, the Holy Saturday, seventh day of the week, is as alive today as from the beginning

Finally, Ron never claimed that it was an archaeologist, we all knew that it was an anesthesiologist nurse who had worked for many decades to Biblical archaeology which gained a vast experience. It is fully aware also that many discoveries have not been by archaeologists or by specialists in the field. It has often been by chance or by explorers. It is important to also clarify the reasons that my they personally motivated me to investigate deeply and with much detail allegations of Ron Wyatt.

First, many years ago, when he was only 18 years old a friend sold me a diagram or prophetic table prepared by Gordon Collier. In the bottom right of the diagram, were several quotations from E.G. White concerning the discovery of the 10 Commandments in the future. This awoke in my great interest on this topic and since then started the investigation, but not with so much interest as in later years. A few years later I visited the White Estate in Washington D.C., where once again I was in contact with information related to this topic. I was impressed so much that in documents that will delivered me there, E.G. White citations were interpreted slightly different from what they actually said. When Ron came to Puerto Rico, I must confess that even watching the videos and listen to lectures, it was not easy to convince me.

What was what convinced me rum? Ron convinced me that I had to investigate more deeply, especially the word of God, history and everything that had been investigated by archaeologists, explorers, etc. on four topics on which has primarily focused my interest and research: the Ark of the Covenant, the ten commandments, Mount Sinai and the Red sea crossing. For several months (now took several years) then I started to investigate allegations of Ron, his critics, disputes the allegations against him in his person and his "discoveries". What I found motivated me to invite you to Puerto Rico, to interview him on the radio program the Bible and also challenging it with several friends at the cottage where Ron was for several days.

Already many years have passed and research on these issues have continued, as in the "discoveries" of rum have come to call themselves as "deception", "fraud" or the "illusions" of a sincere, but extremely wrong man. In many Christian circles where Ron was invited, now they do not identify with him and or siquieren want to know that Ron was invited to his congregation. Apparently, many have shame
and they don't want to be identified with him. However, there are many who after having investigated in depth have to be strengthened and further investigate. I'm one of them. Without a spirit of controversy, and considering I only as a student
in the Bible, invite all those who read these articles to keep the
Similarly, avoid prejudice and keep an open mind and
objective. The fact that the world's archaeological experts re-
chacen discoveries of Ron and some even call you
charlatan, they do not represent for my no basis to reject,
investigate or not to listen. After all with Christ made it
same.

Dr. William Shea of the Institute of research Bible of the Confe-
Seventh-day Adventist General Conference expressed in a
during the following about Ron Wyatt: "Ron is an SDA (seventh-day Adventist)"
(from the seventh-day), anesthesiologist nurse in Nashville, TN, with a
great interest in several projects arqueologóciso in the Middle East.
Some of these projects have some validity and other not-could-
necessarily have basis to support them. Therefore, each
"their projects need be judged on its own merits"
In my case (Julian Cano), this is exactly what I did. However, Dr. Shea, he gave more credit to the discovery
of the Ark of Noah, while the Ark of the Covenant, the crossing of the Red Sea and Sinai, etc., found no reason or basis to giving any merit or credibility. Moreover, as for other alleged boast-
brimiento and particularly the Ark of the Covenant, Dr. Shea said: "I do not see any basis in the Bible, the spirit of prophecy or the biblical typology for such a theory". It is this particularly where I and Dr. Shea differ significantly.
None of which we met and interviewed several times on the radio program and on other occasions, Ron Wyatt can say with certainty that Ron discovered this or that. However, although we are not archaeologists, under the deep research of scientific, archaeological sources and mass media, have discovered evidence that give credibility to the allegations of Mr Wyatt, reconocimiendo at the same time as many experts/archaeologists did not give any credibility. When we look at the findings of the crossing of the Red Sea, Mount Sinai and more particularly the Ark of the Covenant, under the biblical evidence, did find a sound basis the spirit of prophecy and typology. This evidence is that we
It mainly encourages continued research, discussion and analysis
of all the biblical information. This analysis includes the scientific evidence on both sides of the dispute.

Curious and important are our findings of evidence of specialists in the areas of archaeology-scientific objective, which does not recognize the traditional sites of Mount Sinai, the crossing of the Red Sea and place of the crucifixion of Christ as truthful because they lack objective archaeological evidence and is often based on legends.
One of the biggest controversies related to Biblical archaeology broke out when Mr. Ron Wyatt, amateur archaeologist, said that the he had discovered the Ark of the Covenant, the tables of the 10 commandments, other objects related to the temple and the place of the crucifixion. These findings of course have great significance for Christians and it would be the most important finds in Biblical archaeology. In relation to the Covenant Ark or Ark of the testimony, Mr. Wyatt stated that he found in a cave below the place where Christ was crucified within a stone whose door was open and heading box. According to Wyatt the blood of Christ was found on top of the bringer ("Mercy Seat").
Once again without spirit of dogmatism or dispute, we are asking the public to analyze the biblical and typological arguments and for those who know and believe in the writings of E.G. White, carefully analyze their statements in light of the Holy Scriptures.
As a result of the publication of the book in English: "Holy Relics or Revelation" by Russell and Colin Standish of Hartland, the Bible Ministry has published a response by the document entitled: Revelation or Holy Relics. The comments and findings have been published primarily in English, while some things we have released them in Spanish. Are you same judges.

http://www.bibleministry.org/arqueolog%C3%ADa_b%C3%ADblica.htm

Original text in spanish
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: ovelias on January 27, 2012, 09:20:25 AM
hi all haw are you. i am reading this chapter and i dont aderstand why all are afraid that the end is caming. is not the end is a new begining for human nation.
21/12/2012 is anly a day were 1000 years of one raound of the san is end and is begining a new one. 
i just believe that like i believe in ather things.
i dont now why bat i believe that.
the end is near yes bad no one now the exact day.
GOD SAIDS:I WILL CAME LIKE THE THIVE IN THE NIGHT
SOW dont wayst  your time in minless thoughts that make you sad.
thing that life is fool of saprises.
GIVE all the love you all have in your hard in your lovesones, in your nayboors give a smile in strangers. look around you the sun is raising the birds are singing the most butiful song ever for you. the flowers are gave to you ther owsom parfum only for you.
WITH ALL MY LOVE TO YOU ALL
KISSES  ;))
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: applehead250609 on January 27, 2012, 10:25:38 AM
For those struggling with the commandment about God not wanting idols, I was reminded of the blog post Kelly Clarkson posted shortly after Amy Winehouse's death. And it sort of puts a different perspective on it so I thought i'd share:

Quote
"I heard the news about Amy Winehouse. I'm incredibly sad. I didn't know her but I met her a few times and got to hear her sing before she blew up. She was a beautiful and talented girl. I'm angry. What a waste of a gifted person. What a shame she saw no hope and continued living her life in that manor. I have been that low emotionally and mentally and that is overwhelming. I keep asking myself why some of us are spared and the others are made examples. I'm very angry and sad. I don't know why it's bothering me so much. Sometimes I think this job will be the death of us all, or at least the emotional death of us all. Maybe that is why as a little kid in sunday school I learned that God didn't want false gods or idols. I thought it was terribly selfish of God as a child but I think I get it now. He didn't want us following people or things that are imperfect and not so much for the followers but for the gods and/or idols who will never be what everyone wishes or needs them to be because we are made imperfect. He knew we wouldn't be able to handle the pressure, the shame, the glory, or the power the spotlight brings. I am distraught. I am also extremely grateful and thankful for the people who love me and support me. Without such amazing friends and family who knows where I'd be. My thoughts and prayers are with her friends and family. I am so sorry for your loss. I pray for peace in your hearts."

WOW ,just wow,thank you very much for this  bearhug ,I remember I had read somewere Kelly's words regarding Amy.Seeing this again made me understand many things and how The True Story Is Almost Never Told,cause the OPPOSITE is always easier to "digest".This is sad,really sad :( .
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: PureLove on January 27, 2012, 10:44:14 AM
Sarahli and diggyon - I for one am VERY interested in learning about the Quran. I remember a post about the number 7 in Quran but I would not be able to find it again.
I would also like to learn about the Torah and Jewish scriptures if we have someone here who could tell us about it. The more we know about each other and each other's cultural history, the more we can understand each other in our differences and our common elements.
Understanding is the basis for tolerance and tolerance is the basis for peace.
In the end, it does not matter which colour or belief we have.
The answer is love and love is understood in every language and culture and that's GREAT.

I would like to encourage you to start a thread about your findings in Quran.

Hey guys. I'm a Muslim so maybe I can help you about Quran. 7 is an important number in Quran too because it says that God created the sky with 7 layers, and the universe was created in 7 days. 7 is a very divine number in Quran too.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: AKHTONI on January 27, 2012, 12:03:27 PM
Sarahli and diggyon - I for one am VERY interested in learning about the Quran. I remember a post about the number 7 in Quran but I would not be able to find it again.
I would also like to learn about the Torah and Jewish scriptures if we have someone here who could tell us about it. The more we know about each other and each other's cultural history, the more we can understand each other in our differences and our common elements.
Understanding is the basis for tolerance and tolerance is the basis for peace.
In the end, it does not matter which colour or belief we have.
The answer is love and love is understood in every language and culture and that's GREAT.

I would like to encourage you to start a thread about your findings in Quran.

Hey guys. I'm a Muslim so maybe I can help you about Quran. 7 is an important number in Quran too because it says that God created the sky with 7 layers, and the universe was created in 7 days. 7 is a very divine number in Quran too.
and there are 7 heavens too, jesus is mointioned 25 times in the holy Quran (2+5=7), muslims Circumambulate around the Kaaba 7 times too and stoning the devil:On the 10th day of Dhu al-Hijjah (Eid al-Adha), pilgrims must hit the large jamrah only with 7 pebbles. On each of the following two days they must hit each of the three walls with 7 pebbles, going in order from east to west.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Sarahli on January 27, 2012, 12:44:54 PM
I have posted in the other forum but I post it here too in case some people do not check both forums. I have found interesting information about the Ark; quoting some parts from this website: http://web.mac.com/len15/HealthyWorldSolutions/Apocalypse_and_the_Ark_of_the_Covenant.html

Recently, mathematician Vic Showell produced substantial evidence that the universe’s most important mathematical constants Pi and PHI, and every geometric structure in nature, contains at its core only nine fundamental musical notes or frequencies of sound and light in which 528Hz is central.

Additionally, this frequency, 528Hz, has been advanced by this author to be the “key to the house of David” (Isaiah 22:22; Rev. 3:7). It exclusively exists at the heart of the electromagnetic sound and light spectrums. It is the heart of the rainbow (light green in color) said to be spinning like a vortex of energy in the middle of your chest—the heart (chakra). This color, greenish-yellow, is the primary pigment in the botanical world.

Now an ark, or arc, is shaped like a rainbow—like a slice or section of a perfect circle. Given sound and light are both mathematical wave forms, fundamentally frequency vibrations, the light of any rainbow, or sound of a drum shaped like an arc, shares mathematical constants including 528Hz, the sound of LOVE.

Said another way, if you draw an arc, then a straight line connecting each end, you have created a drum-like image or hull-like design from Noah’s Ark.

The Ark of the Covenant held the spiritual power of eternal life for souls drifting aimlessly in jeopardy. The Ark of Noah, likewise, provided a safe haven for long term salvation.

What is a Covenant? It is a contract--an agreement between two parties; in this case the Creator and you, or any individual within the human family.
What are the terms of this Contract or Covenant? Very simply, IF you give your Faith over to God, then you may call upon the King of the Universe at any time using prayer, or heart-felt loving intention, to remedy any troubling situation.
Now where in your “holy temple” do you feel Faith? Most certainly, in your heart.

The Arc is the musical-mathematical model or design that administers this experiment using the mathematical constants Pi, PHI, the Fibonacci Series and the Golden Mean. This entire experiment is fueled exclusively by what’s inside the Ark, the chest, the heart—the Holy Spirit of energetic perfection.
This Apocalypic vision, or “unveiling,” recognizes this true meaning of the Ark of the Covenant, and its fundamental musical-mathematical “contract” between Creator and created..

To be most secure in this agreement, you must learn to float with faith, zero fear, on the “Creative Juice”—the Living Water—in an ark built for safe transit.

The term “Apocalypse” actually means: “lifting of the veil.”

As stated in the New Jerusalem Bible, from the “Introduction to The Revelations of John,” the Greek “title of this book is literally, ‘The Apocalypse of John' or 'The Revelation of John'.: So the Apocalypse, or unveiling, is actually very beneficial, particularly spiritually, for those with “ears” to hear, or “eyes” to see, a Divine calling or destiny.
If “the truth shall set you free,” the greatest secreted truths hold the capacity to emancipate you completely. To be all that you can be, especially spiritually, you need to tune into the One Unifying Truth. This relates intimately to the term Apocalypse and the Ark of the Covenant. Their true meanings and functions are optimally freeing.

The word Lucifer is defined as “the morning star, a fallen rebel archangel, the Devil.” In Christian theology, Lucifer is known to be God’s chosen angel charged with administering music and the light of the morning star, the Sun. What a powerful position controlling the energies or frequencies of sound and light governing the earthly plane! No wonder “Babylon has fallen!”
Clearly, the secret of Lucifer’s power lies in the creative technology of sound and light advanced by God which has remained secret prior to this Apocalypse.

This Apocalyptic revelation and realization that the Arc of the Covenant broadcasts the “Music of the Light” is the main reason you are encouraged to participate in LIVE H2O. The “Concert for the Living Water” features loving people worldwide singing a “New Song” (Rev. 14:1) in LOVE (528Hz).
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: applehead250609 on January 27, 2012, 12:48:28 PM
hi all haw are you. i am reading this chapter and i dont aderstand why all are afraid that the end is caming. is not the end is a new begining for human nation.
21/12/2012 is anly a day were 1000 years of one raound of the san is end and is begining a new one. 
i just believe that like i believe in ather things.
i dont now why bat i believe that.
the end is near yes bad no one now the exact day.
GOD SAIDS:I WILL CAME LIKE THE THIVE IN THE NIGHT
SOW dont wayst  your time in minless thoughts that make you sad. (touche  ;) )
thing that life is fool of saprises.
GIVE all the love you all have in your hard in your lovesones, in your nayboors give a smile in strangers. look around you the sun is raising the birds are singing the most butiful song ever for you. the flowers are gave to you ther owsom parfum only for you. (  bearhug )
WITH ALL MY LOVE TO YOU ALL
KISSES  ;))

Exactly  Ovelias!!! I don't understand either why people are so afraid that the World will End  :? .The OPPOSITE is the TRUTH,cause the World will not end .Remember,everything is BACKwards and UPSIDE-down,just like most religious things !!!!

(http://i45.tinypic.com/2qlqtu1.jpg)(http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01432/moonwalk_1432135i.jpg)

TS,even if you will not believe me,I want you to know that I like you very much  :) .I want to thank you for everything you did and still do for us.You "opened" our minds and managed to "teach us" in a new and, innovate way,coincidencely ,just like Michael did all his life maybe  :idea:  ;D .Anyway for me it doesn't matter who you are,you can be even Michael Faraday lol  :mrgreen: ,what matters to me is your message  :) .Often people are worshipping the messenger and missing The Message,right  :?: ,which is the most important in the end.People act like it is the messenger that matters and not the message, even when the messenger says it is the message that matters. I am not saying Jesus was not divine; he was and we all can be  :mrgreen: .
I am not saying anything; it is Jesus and the Bible that says it. I am just pointing this fact out to people that say they believe in the Bible, but must not have really read it. Jesus said that it is the truth that sets you
FREE. That is the truth. The truth is not always what people want to hear, but it is what sets you FREE.
I remember when Michael "unveiled" his kids and "introduced" them to the world,people said,wow this is the end,they are "opened" to the dangers of the world,their freedom is over.In fact was exactly the OPPOSITE,and look at them now how mature,happy and well they are  :) .Michael knew exactly :WHY,WHEN and HOW he will do the right thing for his treasure,which are his children  :) .
Now talking about The End of the World/Apocalypse a little bit  albino/ .

You do not have to be smart to know the truth, but you do have to be rational, be honest, and know a few things that could not be known until now  :mrgreen: .The word “apocalypse” means to unveil, not the end of the world  :shock:  ;D .The meaning of the apocalypse is the OPPOSITE of what most people think. It does not mean the end of the world; it means the revealing of hidden secrets and the beginning of a heaven on earth. The apocalypse is starting now.
It is not the END,it is the BEGINING of something NEW   penguin/ !!!!!!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFEO5HP5Azs[/youtube]



Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Sarahli on January 27, 2012, 01:05:51 PM
The word “apocalypse” means to unveil, not the end of the world  :shock:  ;D .The meaning of the apocalypse is the OPPOSITE of what most people think. It does not mean the end of the world; it means the revealing of hidden secrets and the beginning of a heaven on earth. The apocalypse is starting now.
It is not the END,it is the BEGINING of something NEW   penguin/ !!!!!!

I agree with you Applehead, we almost posted at the same time!  lolol/
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: ovelias on January 27, 2012, 01:41:34 PM
thank you @appelhaid250609  bearhug
 yes you have right we have to see deeper and not take all litterally.
love 2 you. :)

Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Sarahli on January 27, 2012, 02:48:50 PM
I believe this has been posted before, but I'd like to post it again in view of the 1st Sign by TS.

The Sign:
Quote
In all cases, you will find the angels are standing on the throne, kneeling on the throne, crouching on the throne, or whatever; but always on the throne! However, angels are not even allowed to sit on God’s throne, much less have their feet on His throne!!! What blasphemy! The devil has a good laugh, no doubt.
There is one ark, though, depicted with a few different yet similar illustrations, where the angels are beside the ark and mercy seat—which is exactly where they belong! And this is the true ark; any and all arks with angels on top of the mercy seat are most certainly counterfeit.

(http://www.bibleplus.org/images/arkfront.jpg)

(http://a3.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/12/4d077e9b5de34a918d62cf1b1052aea0/l.jpg)

(http://a4.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/8/99ea2ac177df75d459adfe4817d6f40e/l.jpg)

Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Do on January 27, 2012, 02:53:52 PM

BeTheChange, I think it's not so much the Ark at all, it's all about the Blood.  Whose is it, what are its properties, and how does the blood fit with Michael the Archangel and Michael Jackson?  I believe we're going to be reading of miracles and more Signs.  It's all about the blood, and it's going to be a miracle.  In Cry, the choir sings "You're the Chosen One", and Michael sings "I'm going to need some kind of sign". He sings that "they", not "we", don't know when it's all going to end, though he sings "I" twice. Stories buried could include the Ark.  "They'll be no more wars", could only be after the return of Christ, Michael the Archangel.  Finally he sings, "I will answer all your prayers."  I believe the Sign he's looking for could be the "transfer" of the blood to Michael.  MJ once said, "Have mercy for I have been bleeding for a long time."  Remember the bloody shirt 'In the closet', but now coming out to the world, priced $3.99 = 21 = 777.

MJonmind, love your view on this!

And may I add this words from CRY:

Quote
"Cry with me,  Put it all on me . . . why YOU put it all on me . . .(who is he referring to? God? Jesus? Mankind? Who is putting WHAT on him?)
If we all cry at the same time tonight . . . Change the world
.”

Quote
MJonmind:
Well, I know this seems a stretch, but somewhere along the line we're going to have to see a miracle if we believe the Bible--whether Jesus coming in the clouds, Michael's blood and body being changed to immortal, or our bodies either resurrected and/or changed to forever young, as TS declares confidently
.

When I read that I thought of what Martin Bashir asked Michael when they stood at a replica of the coffin of Toetanchamon: 'Would you like to be buried in something like this?'
Michael answered: 'No, I don't ever want to be buried, I would like to live forever.'

When I heard him say this years ago, I thought, yeah, well, you're in denial, we ALL gonna die some day. When I hear this today again, I hear some kind of confidance in his voice, like he knows something that we don't know (yet!)

Quote
'He was like an old soul in a little body'

I'm now feeling more than ever that Michael is a very, very special man.

Guys, I'm so amazed by all of the posts in this thread!!
I was very, very confused by TS latest post and because I don't have much knowledge of the bible, I had such a hard time processing all of what he said. But, nevertheless, I was very intriged by it, so I read all the posts in here and I learned A LOT!
A few days ago it suddenly seemed to 'click' in my head! Like the puzzle was becoming a piece of art!!
I want to thank you ALL for your amazing words and explanations, and I keep on reading and learning!

Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: MJonmind on January 27, 2012, 02:59:27 PM
[...]Wishingstar, you and BeTheChange's posts are just so poignant and heart-stirring. [...]
+1 ;)

I also adore your posts, MjonMind, Grace, Sarahli
 bearhug


(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRZHoggt7nDk1tqCYawPxV8PCNCDBJrnBoHnawlrDk9Vz2Ty4Isag)




Sarahli, those Ark pics are definitely more accurate with the God's throne purpose.  And they're also simple too, not fancy like many depict.


Applehead, interesting you talk about the unveiling could only happen now. Also I think the unveiling of God doesn’t just choose contributors from one particular faith.  Michael is very widely read.  Sarahli, aren’t there videos of going into amazing universal numbers including pi from an Islamic perspective? I remember seeing them way back from someone.  Also the painting of Michael with the veil pulled back, Michael with the key on the book.  As if only he can put it all together, the bits and pieces from the others God has chosen.  Revelation 5.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: lilwendy on January 27, 2012, 03:18:04 PM
Anyway for me it doesn't matter who you are,you can be even Michael Faraday lol  :mrgreen: ,what matters to me is your message  :) .Often people are worshipping the messenger and missing The Message,right  :?: ,which is the most important in the end.People act like it is the messenger that matters and not the message, even when the messenger says it is the message that matters.

 /bravo/

I'm so glad you say this!  I think the same way as you!  Really, to me I really don't care who he is... he's NOT lying... he's delivering TRUTH!  He's NEVER asked us to send money, lie, do anything immoral, he's always directed us back to God!  I don't see what is so sinister about that?  If people want to find something bad though... they will.  They will say his motive is "probably" to recruit people to his belief or to start a cult.  It's all speculation though.  Facts are facts.  All he's done is guided us to information and told us to study and form our own opinions.  It's really quite sad because many of us (including myself sometimes) are self-deceived.  We THINK we are coming from a place of love, but our actions show otherwise.  We assume the worst.  We look for the negative in others.  :(

I suspect that TS would reveal a lot more of what he knows if he knew we would be receptive to him. :)  But timing is everything though and it's clear that TS works on a timeline.  :)

The message is clear: We need to study for ourselves, heighten our powers of discernment, and wake up to what is REALLY going on!

TS, I also want to thank you for all you do for us (even when many of us reject the message).  God bless you and I pray for you to stay strong.

Anyway, applehead250609 thank you thank you for your comment! 
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Sarahli on January 27, 2012, 03:33:58 PM
@MJonmind I just know something about the golden ratio.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Dontwalkaway on January 27, 2012, 04:49:52 PM
Sarahli and Applehead, great posts.  I have also heard that the apocolypse means unveiling.  Hidden truths will be revealed.  It means a new beginning of a new era or golden age.   We will realize we are all connected together and connected with God.  We have a shared consciousness also.  Your thoughts can effect vibrations which effect the world.  Meditating and especially doing it in a group can really make a change in the world.      Everything is vibration,light, and sound.   It has to do with increasing your vibrational level and going to higher dimensions.  I also heard about the 528 frequency and other frequencies.  528Hz is also used for DNA repair.  Love is a high vibration while fear is a low vibration, so it's important to spread love.

I am reading David Wilcock's book, The Source Field Investigations, and it's very very good.  He talks about shared consciousness, telepathy, and the importance of the pineal gland.  Ancient people knew how to work with this energy field or the source field.  They used pyramids and other structures.  I just read the part in the book about the Tibetans.  They levitated huge stones by working with sound vibrations.  They used chanting,drums, and horns placed in key positions.  All of this knowledge has not been readily available to us. 

He even talks about time travel, hover craft and other great stuff !!!  These are events, research, and experiments that really happened.  Not Science Fiction.

 
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Sarahli on January 27, 2012, 05:37:28 PM
Thank you Dontwalkaway.

@MJonmind I just know something about the golden ratio.

Thank you MJonmind to have reminded me of the golden ratio, Divine proportion or Phi number (Phi = 1.61803398874989...).

There is a lot of interesting information about this. Here’s a video about Phi where they mention the Ark of the Covenant:

[youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hvD5kLqjuw[/youtube]

In this website there is a little more information: http://www.goldennumber.net/bible.htm
Quote
In Exodus 25:10, God commands Moses to build the Ark of the Covenant, in which to hold His Covenant with the Israelites, the Ten Commandments, saying,

"Have them make a chest of acacia wood-
two and a half cubits long,
a cubit and a half wide,
and a cubit and a half high."

The ratio of 2.5 to 1.5 is 1.666..., which is as close to phi (1.618 ...) as you can come with such simple numbers and is certainly not visibly different to the eye.  The Ark of the Covenant is thus constructed using the Golden Section, or Divine Proportion.  This ratio is also the same as 5 to 3, numbers from the Fibonacci series.

Here is another interesting video:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oSePXRbW9o&feature=related[/youtube]

The theme of water is also important and has kept on popping up throughout the Hoax. I think it was discussed several times already on how the sound affects water and especially this 528 frequency. 

Also, I was wondering if this was linked to Back/Front’s numerology somehow.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: rswilley2011 on January 27, 2012, 06:36:12 PM
EDIT: My post posted twice for some reason, so I edited it out (don't know how to delete it).
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: rswilley2011 on January 27, 2012, 06:37:22 PM
TS you say as like it's a certainty the world won't end on 12/21/2012.
How can you be sure it won't end that day, as long as in the Bible it is written that nobody knows the exact moment? So how can you know it won't end that day? Doesn't this come against the Bible?
.......................
@AKHTONI - I like your signature.

@Gina: Since millions of people expect something that day, that pretty much GUARANTEES it won't happen that day (since no man knows the day or hour of Jesus' return). But the scriptures DO say that if we study them, and gain knowledge and wisdom, it won't take us by surprise (since it tells us to keep an eye out).
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+24%3A36&version=KJV
"Matthew 24:36
King James Version (KJV)

36But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."

So if nobody knows about that day, only God, I think nobody could tell exactly that it won't be a certain day.
Not even Michael Jackson can know about the end day >>>> this implies he can not know about the day the end won't come.

The wording of the verse is very weird. It says "day and hour," but could it possibly mean that we may be able to figure out the year? I believe that's entirely possible. Once the signs for the final 7 years happen, we know that the end will come in seven years (thus meaning that we could possibly know the year, but not the exact day). TS, in his post, said that the world wouldn't end in 2012 (he didn't say the exact date...but could be wrong).

Personally, based on research, believe that the final 7 years COULD begin this year, possibly on 12-21-2012 (but not the end of the world). I say this because, I believe Jesus was giving a hint at the time it'd begin in Matthew 24:20-21

Quote
"But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor shall ever be."

If you look at what day of the week 12-21 (the first day of WINTER) falls on, it is a friday (the day before the SABBATH). The context of this verse is about the flight away from Jerusalem when the Abomination of Desolation occurs again (it happened for the first time when the Romans destroyed Jerusalem/the Temple in 70 AD). THe scripture say that Jerusalem will be under seige again in the time of the end.

I believe that around this time, Jerusalem will once again be under seige (by it's enemies), but this time will be the victor. I believe that Jesus is warning whoever is in Jerusalem, at that time, to be away before the time the AoD happens. If you want to know a little more about my research about the Book of Revelation, check out my thread on the MichaelsArmyOfLove forum: http://www.michaelsarmyoflove.com/forum/index.php?topic=61.msg168;topicseen#new

I base all of this on my beliefs as a Latter-Day saint (Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints aka "Mormon"). I have had many confirmations that I am following the right path, but I respect anyones beliefs about everything. Not trying to force my beliefs on anyone, just trying to help people understand things and choose for themselves :)
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: SimPattyK on January 27, 2012, 06:37:48 PM
Quote from: The Sign
SIGN #1: THE FINAL ARK OF SAFETY
[...]  -- http://www.michaelsarmyoflove.com/forum/index.php?topic=56.msg118#msg118
5. Only Michael Has Ever Seen God

Psalm 97:2, “Clouds and darkness are round about him … the habitation of his throne.” (see 18:11).
Job 26:9, “He holdeth back the face of his throne, and spreadeth his cloud upon it.” (see Leviticus 16:2).
Psalm 104:1,2, “O LORD my God, thou art very great … Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment …”
1 Timothy 6:16, “Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto …”

Revelation 4:3, “… and there was a rainbow round about the throne …” (see Ezekiel 1:26-28; 28:13-16).

      The Father is hidden from the view of the angels, because He is surrounded by a cloud filled with colorful light and glory (see Jeremiah 14:21; 17:12; Acts 7:55,56). But the light alone would not hide the visibility of the Father, because light itself is what allows us to see things; however, shapes are not seen when light is scattered.
[....]

[...]
Recently, mathematician Vic Showell produced substantial evidence that the universe’s most important mathematical constants Pi and PHI, and every geometric structure in nature, contains at its core only nine fundamental musical notes or frequencies of sound and light in which 528Hz is central.

Additionally, this frequency, 528Hz, has been advanced by this author to be the “key to the house of David” (Isaiah 22:22; Rev. 3:7). It exclusively exists at the heart of the electromagnetic sound and light spectrums. It is the heart of the rainbow (light green in color) said to be spinning like a vortex of energy in the middle of your chest—the heart (chakra). This color, greenish-yellow, is the primary pigment in the botanical world.

Now an ark, or arc, is shaped like a rainbow—like a slice or section of a perfect circle. Given sound and light are both mathematical wave forms, fundamentally frequency vibrations, the light of any rainbow, or sound of a drum shaped like an arc, shares mathematical constants including 528Hz, the sound of LOVE.

(http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/6571/rainbowpics.jpg)

(http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/1329/michaelandrainbow1.jpg)

(http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/2118/michaelandrainbow2.jpg)

(http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/9112/michaelandrainbow3.jpg)

Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: SimPattyK on January 27, 2012, 06:45:35 PM
I had some trouble with uploading the pics, I hope you can all the visualize 4 pics.
You can find more info on this link , regarding Michael (our Michael!) and the Rainbow! ;)
http://liveinchapelperilous.blogspot.com/2009/06/michael-jackson-crosses-rainbow-bridge.html
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: SimPattyK on January 27, 2012, 07:06:04 PM
I had some trouble with uploading the pics, I hope you can all the visualize 4 pics.
You can find more info on this link , regarding Michael (our Michael!) and the Rainbow! ;)
http://liveinchapelperilous.blogspot.com/2009/06/michael-jackson-crosses-rainbow-bridge.html

Other RAINBOW - connections.........

Michael Jackson Hoax Death-Old man,Yellow Brick Road,Hollywood
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMs8TA1qzM8&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL


2011 Oscars - Live Performance - Somewhere Over The Rainbow - 83rd Academy Award
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46VrfroexW8[/youtube]


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELaILNtgIGk[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lIBLz0ikYU[/youtube]

Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: ~Souza~ on January 27, 2012, 07:31:55 PM
I can't say how glad I am about the change of tides in this thread. Love to see interesting informative posts instead of ridicule and attack.

As for TS saying the EOW is NOT on 12/21/12, that's just common sense I guess, because if you read Revelation, you see that LOTS has to happen before the end: mark of beast, time of trouble, resurrection of the dead etc. It's not very likely that ALL of that will happen within the next 11 months. It will probably be a few years at least for it to all happen before the EOW. All we know that the signs of the end are there, that we ARE at the end. We just don't know yet HOW close. I have said 2 years ago that I think that there is an evil plan for 2012. I still believe that although I had no Bible knowledge then. I now think that it might mean that it's the year of the mark of the beast, the beginning of the end.

The time of trouble will be a test of faith, its meaning is (IMO) for humanity to prove to Satan that it IS possible to live without sin, even if they are tempted to sin, or even persecuted if they refuse. It has to be proven that the human race is worth the trouble and the new earth/eternal life. Satan will do anything to prove God wrong and show that he was unfairly kicked out of heaven for sinning. That is in my opinion the battle that has to be fought. And I believe the 144000 is the group with that heavy task. They will not be the only ones saved at all, but they will have to win the battle for all humanity. Everyone besides the 144000 will die first and be resurrected later and judged everyone according to his works. Does that sound scary? I think being one of the 144000 will be far worse. Revelation 9:6:

"And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them."

That sounds scarier to me. Michael didn't only say to Batshit that he wanted to live forever (everyone saved outside the 144000 will), but he also said he didn't want to die. That means Michael wants to be one of the 144000 (the painting where he has the devil under his foot gives the same message). I am sure he can do it, he had one of the best tests with all the shit he has been through, but I hope in that case that he got rid of the JW belief that you only need to keep 9 commandments and can take "one of the least" (4th) with a grain of salt...

"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
Matthew 5:19

Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Dontwalkaway on January 27, 2012, 08:06:50 PM
SimPattyK, Great songs with rainbows but what do all the rainbows mean ?

Someone on here said that the rainbow was an arc.  It has all the frequencies of ultraviolet light.  Our bodies have chakras or energy centers and each one absorbs or uses a different one of these frequencies.  We are all connected to these frequencies of light or the rainbow.  Almost like a bridge connecting everything.  DNA absorbs light also.  We are really a light body first and then a physical body second.                     

That's why you need to listen to your mother, grandmother, doctor when they say eat all your fruits and vegetables, all the colors of the rainbow.      ::P

Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Dontwalkaway on January 27, 2012, 08:16:26 PM
Also,  Ron Wyatt said that there was a crystal radiating a RAINBOW in the cave with the arc of the covenant !!!!

It was on the video where he was talking about what was in the cave and what was in the arc.  There were two stone tablets in the arc.  There was furniture in the cave.  And then he mentions the crystal radiating a rainbow
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: SimPattyK on January 27, 2012, 08:33:26 PM
Thank you for adding all that, Dont'walkAway ;) this is really getting more and more interesting!! Can't wait to read the next "Signs" bounce/
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: skyways on January 27, 2012, 08:46:49 PM
Hi everyone!

still uneasy about authenticity of RW discovery i desited to hear all what i can find from his own word - so a search net for the videos with his interview and after get really excited from all the discovery he supposedly make , ONE thing get me caution from his speach  -

please start from 26.10 when he describing MEETING WITH THE ANGEL in the cave where Ark was posted and how he tooked 10 commadments tablet by his hand??  and so on .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8PnYNDCH54&feature=related
The Ark Of The Covenant found in Israel

That description give me BIG reason to think twice before i accepted words of that man- even I REALLY wanted!


My appology if that was already mentioned before - its a lot to read from this threa and some time my poore phone not accepting properly wth forum pages.

I will post in a while all what i thinking now after analising TS info, - so speak to  all of you soon, dear Fam!!@@


STAY BLESSED!

 bearhug


P>S>  cant find legit info where is Ark now after all discovery - anyone can help may be?

also, isnt true that Ark of the Covenant was discovered on the early christianity  and moved from that cave of Holy garden and then losted after 500AC or something. Then Rhon account cant be real unless in between those days and our time Ark have to be placed back to cave to be found againe.... sorry for rambling - may be i lost now on all that thoughts. *-)))

Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: ~Souza~ on January 27, 2012, 08:54:25 PM
Hi everyone!

still uneasy about authenticity of RW discovery i desited to hear all what i can find from his own word - so a searh net for the videos with his interview and after get really excited from all the discovery he supposedly make , ONE thing get me caution from his speach  -

please start from 26.10 when he describing MEETING WITH THE ANGEL in the cave where Ark was posted and how he tooked 10 commadments tablet by his hand??  and so on .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8PnYNDCH54&feature=related
The Ark Of The Covenant found in Israel

That description give me BIG reason to think twice before i accepted words of that man- even I REALLY wanted!


My appology if that was already mentioned before - its a lot to read from this threa and some time my poore phone not accepting properly wth forum pages.

I will post in a while all what i thinking now after analising TS info, - so speak to  all of you soon, dear Fam!!@@


STAY BLESSED!

 bearhug


P>S>  cant find legit info where is Ark now after all discovery - anyone can help may be?

also, isnt true that Ark of the Covenant was discovered on the early christianity  and moved from that cave of Holy garden and then losted after 500AC or something. Then Rhon account cant be real unless in between those days and our time Ark have to be placed back to cave to be found againe.... sorry for rambling - may be i lost now on all that thoughts. *-)))

I don't get what you mean. What exactly does he say that proves he is lying?

As or the Ark being moved to wherever, where does it say so? The last thing we know about it, is that Jeremiah hid it in the cave outside the walls of Jerusalem.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: skyways on January 27, 2012, 09:14:42 PM
thanx Souza!
 all that part of his speech seems off for me when he discribinng the angel meeting - just odd on the tone HOW he said aboutt i believe that BIIIG PERSONAL EXPIERENCE. He give such a common reaction like we meet them every day .
may be for Ron is true everyday expierence but for most people isnt.
If I dare to ask how many of us meet the Angels  and it was genuene expierence  - then HOW  u will tell that for audience of strasngers?
From my feeling - his speech at This part seems really like imaginative description - LET ALONG U WILL BE THREMBLING for meeting Angels so They such DIFFERENT Creature and operate on giffer frequency of energy ---   SO, just CASUALLY MEET THEM AND TALKING AND PASSING BY???

Nah, I wl NOT buying that part.

may be its just me , but that account from his discovery  give me Big warnings - THERE WAS PPL AROUND who also was witnessing his convo with angel - may be Third party also can left some memory about that part , because that particular piece is DOUBTING me Veeeery much.

PEACE!
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: ~Souza~ on January 27, 2012, 09:54:53 PM
thanx Souza!
 all that part of his speech seems off for me when he discribinng the angel meeting - just odd on the tone HOW he said aboutt i believe that BIIIG PERSONAL EXPIERENCE. He give such a common reaction like we meet them every day .
may be for Ron is true everyday expierence but for most people isnt.
If I dare to ask how many of us meet the Angels  and it was genuene expierence  - then HOW  u will tell that for audience of strasngers?
From my feeling - his speech at This part seems really like imaginative description - LET ALONG U WILL BE THREMBLING for meeting Angels so They such DIFFERENT Creature and operate on giffer frequency of energy ---   SO, just CASUALLY MEET THEM AND TALKING AND PASSING BY???

Nah, I wl NOT buying that part.

may be its just me , but that account from his discovery  give me Big warnings - THERE WAS PPL AROUND who also was witnessing his convo with angel - may be Third party also can left some memory about that part , because that particular piece is DOUBTING me Veeeery much.

PEACE!

So you are basig your judgement on a feeling? That's mostly not the right way, do you know how many people have the 'feeling' MJ abused kids?

Also, this is YEARS after Ron's experience and he probably has told this same story hundreds of times before. Let's give an example: I was in a car accident ten years ago and my car ended up in the water and I had to save myself from my seatbelt, crawl over broken glass nd save myself out of the freezing water in the dark on the side of a road where only people pass by who live there and that weren't very many. That too is not an experience that many people have in life and the first few times I told people I was quite emotional and amazed at how lucky I had been that I survived that. When I tell people the same story now, I tell it in a casual way as if it's every day life because I told it so many times already. It has become so normal to me that sometimes I am surprised at people's reaction when they say hear it for the first time.

Ron says that he froze because of that experience, that he couldn't say anything. So what he is saying is that it WAS an amazing experience. But Ron has told the story so many times and relived it in his head hundreds of times for sure, that for him it has become 'normal'. Also, Ron is a religious man who probably never even doubted the existence of angels, which would make the experience for him different from someone with less or no belief. You are assuming that he is lying solely on his way of speaking then that is not the right way. That is the same as people sayin 'MJ is a freak that wears wigs and builds himself a themepark, therefore he must have molested those kids'. Different case, but same (wrong) way of judging because in both cases you look at the person, say YOU would not have done things that way or said things that way and therefore it's ot true. No one is the same. We all react differently to certain things, we all say things dfferently and we all feel and experience things in other ways. So saying Ron is a liar based on what you wrote is very unfair.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: MJonmind on January 28, 2012, 03:41:16 AM
Souza, what an amazing story you have told! Thank you so much!


You know, if any of the people in the Bible who encountered angels were to have been living today and lived next door, probably few of us would believe them.  Yet we believe the Bible is true, historically IMO.  There are just so many liars everywhere, demented people, scammers, sincerely deluded people, money-makers, that it makes it EXTREMELY hard to find the few people who are indeed telling the truth.  Even let's say, if only .0001% are telling the truth about an angelic supernatural encounter, it means there are some on earth today who have really encountered an angel.


Skyways, I completely understand your hesitancy to believe RW’s talking to the angels. However I have heard in my life many stories of people who have encountered who they believe are angels, and several of those stories were told to me personally by the person who saw the angel.  In all the cases it was the unusual circumstances that led them to believe they were angels, things that happened that defied all logic.  Perhaps some members here have encountered an angel themselves.  This would be a very good time to hear some of them, if we are at this time questioning if RW really did/could see and talk to a real bona fide angel.

SimPattyK, wonderful  collage of MJ and rainbows!  Wow! The link also has so much!  Just adding about the two pillars that Michael in Captain EO stands between, is like the 2 pillars of Solomon’s temple named Jachin and Boaz, and also like the story of super-strong Samson taking down the enemy  by pushing on the two supporting pillars and making the building collapse.  Sim, do you realize that because we are finding how absolutely vast this rabbit hole is becoming and how we are probably only scratching the surface, you could be gathering enough collages for a thick hard-cover book!
 OMG! 


Donwalkaway,
Quote
I am reading David Wilcock's book, The Source Field Investigations, and it's very very good.  He talks about shared consciousness, telepathy, and the importance of the pineal gland.  Ancient people knew how to work with this energy field or the source field.  They used pyramids and other structures.  I just read the part in the book about the Tibetans.  They levitated huge stones by working with sound vibrations.  They used chanting,drums, and horns placed in key positions.  All of this knowledge has not been readily available to us. 
 
 He even talks about time travel, hover craft and other great stuff !!!  These are events, research, and experiments that really happened.  Not Science Fiction.

Great post!  I’ve read about the Tibetans lifting things with sound frequencies as well.
Have you heard about the Coral Castle in Florida.  If you haven’t it’s well worth the reading into it. See my link below, but there’s lots out there on this topic.  This man single-handedly built something that defies all modern known methods and equipment, and is very similar to the Great Pyramid in the seeming impossibility of it.  Mr.  Ed Leedskalnin claimed to know the secrets of ancient Egyptians, but would not share the secrets even to his death. Yet the proof stands there, amazing people ever since.
 
http://www.rense.com/general39/coral.htm (http://www.rense.com/general39/coral.htm)


(http://www.rense.com/1.imagesE/coralcastlemoonpond.jpg)     
(http://www.rense.com/1.imagesE/leedskalnin.jpg)

Sarahli, thanks, I’ll watch them when I have extra time!  I absolutely love it when more people get into the spirit of putting their contributions to this huge controversial and challenging TS task, rather than only hearing about negativity. I love it when it gets busy here, and I can't possibly keep up.  albino/ bounce/ typing/ /overreacting/ bangbang  I don't like it when the numbers are so low, people are fighting, and no one's posting. crash/ :'( argue/ pale/ 


Finally, Do, I want to thank you for your lovely response to my post!   I was basically sending off my last post and ran (for work), and so I missed your post just before mine until now.  Also the things you added are all some of the many things Michael sings/says that stick in one’s mind as strange, but with the bigger picture actually make better sense, though controversial.  beerchug 
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Suzy7 on January 28, 2012, 04:43:01 AM
 According to the Bible: Christians are NOT breaking any of the commandments because they are not required to keep the Law of Moses---the Old Covenant. SOME religious organizations hold that the Mosaic Law was in 2 parts: the Decalogue, or the "moral law", and the "ceremonial law". They claim that the Decalogue is still binding, whereas the "ceremonial law" passed away with the Messiah's coming; Jesus. This is why Christians do not keep the Sabbath. They believe in the New Covenant of Jesus whom nullified the law, whilst Jews still keep the Law of Moses because they don't even believe that Jesus was the Messiah. In fact, it is recorded in the Bible that they accused him of blasphemy and even sorcery!--see John 9:14 and on. Jews do not believe he fulfilled the Messianic prophecies, therefore, since they are still waiting for the Messiah they keep the Mosaic Law.

 Jesus himself, contradicts the belief that we must keep the Sabbath and the whole of the law when he states it's laws are no longer applicable--hence why Jews do not believe he is the Messiah. In fact, again John 9:14 tells us that Jesus made a paste in  violation of Sabbath, which caused the Pharisees to say in verse 16: "He does not observe Shabbat!" Jesus didn't even keep the Sabbath! But why, if it is apparently the "Mark of the Beast" for those who don't? Perhaps because Jesus was sent by God to fulfill the Law as he stated at Matthew 5:17-18: "Do not think I came to distroy the Law or the Prophets. I came, not to distroy, but to fulfill; for truly I say to you that sooner would heaven and earth pass away than for one smallest letter or one particle of a letter to pass away from the Law by any means and not all things take place." Jesus thereby showed that the law consisted of prophecies which were certain of fulfillment, so when he came the law was done.

 We are no longer bound by the written law (Ro 7:6) because Jesus died for our sins. Our sins are now able to be forgiven, because our only law given by Jesus is the law of love.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Suzy7 on January 28, 2012, 05:16:46 AM
 Taking my previous post into consideration, there are MANY Bible verses which state we are now under the new law--the New Covenant. By keeping the Old Covenant, we are denying Jesus and his sole purpose for living and dying for us. The old law did not allow for our sins to be forgiven; rather, it only gave us certain punishment and ultimate death for these sins. Under the New Covenant, we are given hope and forgiveness.

 The removal of the Decalogue need arouse no fears or apprehensions. At best it was but a negative approach to righteousness. The law of the Christians is a positive one: Love God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength and love your neighbor as yourself. Do to others as you would have them do to you. It's all for L.O.V.E. So do not have fear that you are not "righteous enough" or "on the side with the devil"--as long as your heart is loving and kind, that is what matters to God. This is the only commandment Jesus gave.

 As for the Ron story--- take it with a grain of salt. Btw, I think BeTheChange, Heartsong and others have raised great points and questions. But even IF it was the real Ark of the Covenant, it is irrelevant to us and more importantly God himself. The only Ark of His Covenant that matters at the "EOW", is Jesus. Jesus metaphorically "signed" the *New Covenant* with his blood indeed, not the old, when he died at the stake. To elaborate: Jesus' disciple Paul says, in regards to the end of the Mosaic Law at Eph 2:13-16: "But now in union with Christ Jesus you who were once far off have come to be near by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, he who made the two parties one and destroyed the wall in between that fenced them off. By means of his flesh he abolished the hatred, THE LAW of COMMANDMENTS consisting in decrees, that he might create two peoples in union with himself into one new man and make peace, and that he might fully reconcile both peoples in one body to God through the torture stake, because he had killed off the hatred by means of himself."
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: diggyon on January 28, 2012, 05:57:06 AM
I had some trouble with uploading the pics, I hope you can all the visualize 4 pics.
You can find more info on this link , regarding Michael (our Michael!) and the Rainbow! ;)
http://liveinchapelperilous.blogspot.com/2009/06/michael-jackson-crosses-rainbow-bridge.html


Other RAINBOW - connections.........

Michael Jackson Hoax Death-Old man,Yellow Brick Road,Hollywood
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMs8TA1qzM8&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL


2011 Oscars - Live Performance - Somewhere Over The Rainbow - 83rd Academy Award
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46VrfroexW8[/youtube]


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELaILNtgIGk[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lIBLz0ikYU[/youtube]



Wow, great songs, Sim...I just love them  :)   /bravo/
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: jono on January 28, 2012, 06:12:04 AM
According to the Bible: Christians are NOT breaking any of the commandments because they are not required to keep the Law of Moses---the Old Covenant. SOME religious organizations hold that the Mosaic Law was in 2 parts: the Decalogue, or the "moral law", and the "ceremonial law". They claim that the Decalogue is still binding, whereas the "ceremonial law" passed away with the Messiah's coming; Jesus. This is why Christians do not keep the Sabbath. They believe in the New Covenant of Jesus whom nullified the law, whilst Jews still keep the Law of Moses because they don't even believe that Jesus was the Messiah. In fact, it is recorded in the Bible that they accused him of blasphemy and even sorcery!--see John 9:14 and on. Jews do not believe he fulfilled the Messianic prophecies, therefore, since they are still waiting for the Messiah they keep the Mosaic Law.

 Jesus himself, contradicts the belief that we must keep the Sabbath and the whole of the law when he states it's laws are no longer applicable--hence why Jews do not believe he is the Messiah. In fact, again John 9:14 tells us that Jesus made a paste in  violation of Sabbath, which caused the Pharisees to say in verse 16: "He does not observe Shabbat!" Jesus didn't even keep the Sabbath! But why, if it is apparently the "Mark of the Beast" for those who don't? Perhaps because Jesus was sent by God to fulfill the Law as he stated at Matthew 5:17-18: "Do not think I came to distroy the Law or the Prophets. I came, not to distroy, but to fulfill; for truly I say to you that sooner would heaven and earth pass away than for one smallest letter or one particle of a letter to pass away from the Law by any means and not all things take place." Jesus thereby showed that the law consisted of prophecies which were certain of fulfillment, so when he came the law was done.

 We are no longer bound by the written law (Ro 7:6) because Jesus died for our sins. Our sins are now able to be forgiven, because our only law given by Jesus is the law of love.

Here I want to add:

“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself. All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” - Matthew 22:36-40

"Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin." - Romans 3:19-20

Romans is an excellent book talking about this rather complex subject.

I also want to add that Jesus did not break the law. What he did break was the additional rules that the Pharisees and religious people had added to the law.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: MJonmind on January 28, 2012, 06:59:10 AM
jono, you beat me to it! :lol:


Suzy7,  you certainly hit the nail on the head with the huge conundrum and difficulty, of law versus grace.  How far exactly does each extend?  There are so many verses that seem to blur the dividing lines, and make it not simple but complex.  IMO, I don’t think Jesus was disobeying the Sabbath at all, but only going against the many added rules that the religious leaders over time had added to the existing ones.  Jesus called them, “traditions of men.” 


And if you go only with Paul, then all Christian women should have their hair long and their heads covered errrr . Slaves should obey their masters. Paul clearly taught (less directly) to obey the 10 commandments in his teaching, but not the Levitical laws, and he kept them himself.

http://www.cogwriter.com/paul.htm (http://www.cogwriter.com/paul.htm)

I just thought I’d mention one aspect that makes it so difficult.  We Gentiles assume the whole Bible is directed to us, but we are actually peering over the shoulders  of the intended readers, the Israelites.   The 66 books  were not directed to us, except for those that actually say so.  Jesus was sent to the House of Israel (he wasn't speaking to us but them); and Paul was sent to the Gentiles (us).  We have to understand that, when we personalize the messages we read.

http://www.tektonics.org/qt/sheepjourney.html (http://www.tektonics.org/qt/sheepjourney.html)

Here the Bible books are divided into categories that help our understanding.  (Ernest Martin was simply one of the best Bible scholars I have encountered, and I spent literally months reading his extensive studies.  He did years of extensive archeology in Israel,  taught Astronomy/and more as a professor.)

http://www.askelm.com/restoring/res999.htm (http://www.askelm.com/restoring/res999.htm)

This is his book, Restoring the Original Bible.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/40523223/Restoring-the-Original-Bible#outer_page_6 (http://www.scribd.com/doc/40523223/Restoring-the-Original-Bible#outer_page_6)

This is the diagram of the 66 books arranged according to the above book. Lots of lovely 7's!
 
http://www.scribd.com/doc/40523223/Restoring-the-Original-Bible#outer_page_5 (http://www.scribd.com/doc/40523223/Restoring-the-Original-Bible#outer_page_5)

Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: melody on January 28, 2012, 07:18:16 AM
@ Suzy7: Some would argue that Jesus kept the spirit of the law, as opposed to the letter of the law, so his believers should follow his lead—which would include observing the seventh day of the week as the blessed and holy day of rest (Gen 2:3), the day in which to go to the temple like Jesus did (Luke 4:16), learn/teach about the gospel  or in other words tend to the flock (Mark 6:2, Luke 13:10, Acts 14:32), have mercy on the bodies of others and not make them labor for you (Exodus 20:8-11), let people spiritually rejuvenate themselves that day and not keep them bound to the mundane. 

The weekly day of rest (like all of the other moedims/appointed times) help believers keep certain things in mind, namely YHWH's "plan" for humanity and what he intended/intends to do with the Messiah. 


Quote
Sabbath:   A Memorial of Creation (Gen 2:1-3; Exod 20:8-11); Memorial of Redemption (Deut 5:12-15); Kept properly brings blessing (Isa 56:2; Isa 58:13-14); Sign of identity as God's people, as well as identity of God (Exod 31:13,17); Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28); The Sabbath foreshadows Resurrection & Millennial Rest (Hebrews 4).

Passover:   After being set aside on the 10th day and examined by the religious leaders, the spotless lamb was sacrificed on 14th day of the first month of the year to redeem the first-born of Israel providing deliverance from certain death (Ex 12).  Those houses that bore the blood of the lamb were passed over by the death angel (Ex 12:23).

     Joshua led the people into the Land in Joshua 4:19 on the 10th of the month (day of setting aside of the Lamb) and circumcised the children of Israel (Josh 5);  Moses, representing the law, could not lead the people into the promised land, but Joshua ("Joshua" means "Yehovah saves" and is the Hebrew form of  the name "Jesus") the son of Nun ("Nun" means "eternal") led them in. This antetype shows that the law couldn't save us (lead us into the promised land) but Jesus, the Son of the Eternal, can and He circumcises our hearts and leads us in.

      Compare the other types: Christ, the sinless Lamb of God (John 1:29,36), was sacrificed for our sins on 14th of the month (Passover) (I Cor 5:7).  He is the First-born of many brothers (Rom. 8:29), provides deliverance from "the second death" for the first born of the church (Rev 20:6) who bear have the blood of Christ covering them (I Cor 10:16; I Pet 1:18,19; Rev 1:5);   Jesus also was examined by the religious leaders and was found without blemish (Luke 23:14,15, 22). Passover is an antetype of the Day of Atonement where only the "firstborn" (first resurrection) are atoned for at this time.

Feast of Unleavened Bread:   Israel's exodus from bondage of Egypt; they had to sanctify the firstborn and all had to put out all leaven and eat unleavened bread (Ex 13:1-10); came to a point later where they had to be 'baptized' under the waters of the Red Sea (Ex 14; I Cor 10:1,2), then continue in the leaving behind of the lifestyles they had in Egypt. We notice and compare that Jesus is the "Bread of Life" (John 6:35, 48, 51) without sin (leaven). Jesus was born in Bethlehem, which in Hebrew, means house of bread. The believers in Christ that take the Passover should then be unleavened (Matt 26:17, I Cor 5:7-8). The Gospels and Epistles also admonish us numerous times to sin no more and to be perfect.

[...]

Feast of First Fruits or Pentecost:  Fifty days after the Elevation (Wave) Sheaf, two loaves of leavened bread were elevated (Lev 23:17), two lambs were offered as peace offering (Lev 23:19-20). A trumpet sounds to call the people to go up to be with the Lord (Ex 19). Moses was on Mt. Sinai receiving the Law at this time period. (Ex 19,20). This day also was a reminder that we were slaves to Egypt (Deut. 16:9-17). Compare and contrast these antetypes to their New Testament counterparts: Fifty days after Jesus arose, His disciples received the gift of the Holy Spirit. Jesus said in John 16:7-8 "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away (Wavesheaf) : for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart (Wavesheaf), I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment."; God wrote the law (Torah) on the hearts of the believers.(1 Cor 3:3); the Holy Spirit is given to help us keep the (spirit of the) law (Acts 2, Rom 7,8);  two witnesses are elevated (Rev 11:3-4,11-12, I Thess 4:13-17); a trumpet sounds then our transformation into Spirit beings occurs and we go up to be with the Lord.(I Cor 15:52,53; I Thess 4:16-17) (some say this occurs rather on Day of Trumpets), antetype of the Marriage Supper (Ex 24) Compare to the Marriage of the Lamb (Rev 19:7-9)

Day of Trumpets:  The first day of the seventh biblical month. The Shofar (Ram's horn called Trumpet) is blown to proclaim a gathering for worship, to herald the arrival of the King, but is used also to warn/signal of war. (Num 10; Jer 4) The book of the Law was read to all the people (Neh 8
'); Their repentant tears were turned to joy. (Neh 8:9-12); Some believe this to be the possible date of the Creation of world, historically the beginning of the Jewish Civil year, return of Christ as King to the earth to make war and judge, End of war & regathering of Israel (Is 2; Mic 4). Jesus will be King of kings upon all the earth (Rev 19:11-16).

Day of Atonement: Translated from Yom Kippur or Yom Kaphar, The tenth day of the seventh biblical month by the Jews. High Priest entered Holy of Holies only once in the year to offer atonement (Ex 30:10);  the High Priest performed ceremonial washings;  Two goats chosen, one to be sacrificed for transgressions of all the people/national sins and one, the Azazel, to have the sins confessed over it and have it carry the sins away from the people/nation. (Lev 16; Ps 103:12); this was for reconciliation to God; Start of Jubilee Year began on every 50th Atonement (Lev 25);  Jesus, our High Priest, offered as our atonement only once (Hebrews 9, 10; Romans 5:10,11) and removed our sin from us. Psalms 103:12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.;  The binding of Satan is thought by many to occur on this day (Rev 20:2);  Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,;   

Feast of Booths/Tabernacles:  Tabernacles means "temporary or "perishable" dwelling. Beginning the 15th Day of the seventh month and lasting seven days. Israel sojourning/living in tents/temporary dwellings in the wilderness 40 years prior to entering the Promised Land. (Leviticus 23:33-44; Neh 8; Zechariah 14:16-19 & Zechariah 14:1-4, 9) Compare to us living in these temporary fleshly tabernacles (2 Cor 5:1-4; 2 Pet 1:13) until we put them off (2 Pet 1:14) and enter the Promised Land in our new incorruptible spirit bodies.

The Eighth Day: New beginnings. Depicts (similarly to the weekly Sabbath) the Millenium Reign of the Messiah on earth, yet this day's picture continues on through the Second Resurrection, Great White Throne Judgement (Rev 20:11-15), New Heavens and New Earth (Isa 65:17; 66:22; 2Pet 3:13, Rev 21:1), even forever; Some see the spirit pouring out as water on this day and some a day previous (John 7:37-38).

http://www.truthontheweb.org/whyfeast.htm


I think this is where the misconception lies: when people are born-again spiritually, they become a new creature (2 Corinthians 5:17), they're made righteous and holy by Yeshua (1 Corinthians 1:30, 2 Corinthians 5:21), they naturally love what is righteous now that they are, so they tend to gravitate towards the law because it is righteousness, not necessarily "to become" righteous because Yeshua has already made them righteous. To say it another way, Yeshua made them righteous and then they fell in love with the law, lol.


@MJonmind: ah, you posted before me I was going to add that; needless to say, I concur  ::P
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: melody on January 28, 2012, 10:33:25 AM
I was thinking about covenants in the bible; so, we've got:


Hebrews 3 says Yeshua replaces Moses; Hebrews 7 says Yeshua replaces Aaron (in the same order of Melchizedek).


It goes from faith covenant—law covenant—back to faith covenant. That's probably why it says that if you walk in the spirit, you are not under the law (Galatians 5:18). It would seem as if YHWH gave the Israelites (that had been in Egypt for 400 years) the torah at Mt. Sinai after their Exodus from Rameses (Numbers 33:3-4, Exodus 24) because as a whole they knew absolutely nothing and had to start off with baby steps, as a people they needed to be taught all over again how to walk in the spirit, then things got Pharisaical, Yeshua incarnates, matures, teaches the people the spirit of the law which is how things were with Abraham (I'm guessing because there's never an explicit indication that he kept the weekly "Sabbath" or was given a written form of a law, that I'm aware of at least). That must mean he walked in the Spirit, so he must have naturally been merciful with his workers, allowing them to rest; ergo, no need for Abraham to be given (nor be held subject to) a written law.

In that case, there really isn't a contradiction: the law is needed for those who are oblivious; once they become aware, they are expected to start walking in the spirit of those instructions. From spiritual milk to spiritual meat (heb 5:12), baby believers to mature believers (1 Peter 2:2, 1 Cor 3:1-2, Heb 6:1). Hmm, now that has me wondering, there must be this same type of correlation within the hoax itself. What was our spiritual milk? (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/Aymii/smiley-think005.gif)



Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: ~Souza~ on January 28, 2012, 10:34:10 AM
I have done an intense study about the Sabbath and I disagree. If Christians don't have to keep the 10 commandments then appaently it's ok to steal, lie, worship false idols etc. But it's not, because everyone will say that we still have to keep 9 commandments, just not the fourth. Why? The answer then is that not worshipping idols falls under love for God and the others under love for your neighbour. How do we know that in the first place? Because they are part of the TEN commandments. So is the Sabbath day, and it falls under love for God. The Sabbath already exsisted way before the new old covenant and it exsisted after the new covenant. Even Paul, the one many quote to try and get rid of the Sabbath, kept the Sabbath himself after Jesus' death. Jesus himself said that NONE of the commandments should be done away with:

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." ~Matthew 5:17-19

He is not talking about the 600+ Torah laws, he is talking about the TEN commadments. Heaven and earth are still here. There is a difference between the annual sabbaths and God's holy Sabbath. The annual sabbaths don't have to be kept anymore, they were part of the feasts for the JEWS, the Sabbath day was made for MAN. Jesus even said the following:

"But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."
~Matthew 24:20-21

The context here is Jesus telling the disciples about what will happen at the end of days, way after Jesus' death. If Jesus knew that he would abolish the ten commandments after his death (only a little after he said this) then WHY would he say that you should pray it's not in winter OR THE sabbath day?

The fourth commandment is the only commandment that begins with "remember". Apparently God foresaw that people would either forget about it or dismiss it. He says it's a sign between Him and his people forever.

There is much more I could say about the Sabbath NOT being done away with, but I will leave it atthis for now. And Ron's story has scriptrural support, more then any other story where Jesus blood is wasted or where we hear a lot of mumbo jumbo just to ge rid of only one of the commandments. And if the mercy seat is signed with Jesus blood, which seems very likely to me, then the same document was signed in blood as with te old covenant: The 10 commandments, written by God himself.

I am not telling anyone what they should do, I am just pointing out one of the biggest misunderstandings of scripture.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: ~Souza~ on January 28, 2012, 10:37:22 AM
I have done an intense study about the Sabbath and I disagree. If Christians don't have to keep the 10 commandments then appaently it's ok to steal, lie, worship false idols etc. But it's not, because everyone will say that we still have to keep 9 commandments, just not the fourth. Why? The answer then is that not worshipping idols falls under love for God and the others under love for your neighbour. How do we know that in the first place? Because they are part of the TEN commandments. So is the Sabbath day, and it falls under love for God. The Sabbath already exsisted way before the new old covenant and it exsisted after the new covenant. Even Paul, the one many quote to try and get rid of the Sabbath, kept the Sabbath himself after Jesus' death. Jesus himself said that NONE of the commandments should be done away with:

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." ~Matthew 5:17-19

He is not talking about the 600+ Torah laws, he is talking about the TEN commadments. Heaven and earth are still here. There is a difference between the annual sabbaths and God's holy Sabbath. The annual sabbaths don't have to be kept anymore, they were part of the feasts for the JEWS, the Sabbath day was made for MAN. Jesus even said the following:

"But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."
~Matthew 24:20-21

The context here is Jesus telling the disciples about what will happen at the end of days, way after Jesus' death. If Jesus knew that he would abolish the ten commandments after his death (only a little after he said this) then WHY would he say that you should pray it's not in winter OR THE sabbath day?

The fourth commandment is the only commandment that begins with "remember". Apparently God foresaw that people would either forget about it or dismiss it. He says it's a sign between Him and his people forever.

There is much more I could say about the Sabbath NOT being done away with, but I will leave it atthis for now. And Ron's story has scriptrural support, more then any other story where Jesus blood is wasted or where we hear a lot of mumbo jumbo just to ge rid of only one of the commandments. And if the mercy seat is signed with Jesus blood, which seems very likely to me, then the same document was signed in blood as with te old covenant: The 10 commandments, written by God himself.

I am not telling anyone what they should do, I am just pointing out one of the biggest misunderstandings of scripture.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: melody on January 28, 2012, 11:22:24 AM
To clarify, I do not think the 10 commandments are done away with. I do agree with you Souza. When I said "torah", I meant the ten commandments; I should have simply said instructions to avoid any misunderstanding, my mistake (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/Aymii/icon_sweatdrop.gif)
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: wishingstar on January 28, 2012, 11:54:46 AM
[...]Wishingstar, you and BeTheChange's posts are just so poignant and heart-stirring. [...]
+1 ;)

I also adore your posts, MjonMind, Grace, Sarahli
 bearhug

Wow......I leave for a few days, and miss all this amazing talk.  This entire thread has become so interesting and full of notions and thoughts that far exceed anything I could have imagined.  However, I do want to say a big thank you for these sweet words and echo what Sim said about these guys as well....you're amazing.  I am sure I am missing a lot and probably need to back up more, lol.  But this caught my eye and I just wanted to send some hugs:

 bearhug x 7

Love you all.......I am so blessed by you, thank you!

Blessings Always
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: bindupbrokenhearted on January 28, 2012, 12:26:03 PM
I know people are going to disagree with me here, but that's okay:

Colossians 2:16
Quote
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Therefore, as Christians we are not to judge others based on Sabbath keeping according to Paul.

John MacArthur has a good study on this:
Quote
But there are three other things that Paul attacks in the heresy of the Essenes that had infiltrated Colossae. The next one is legalism. They not only had said to these Colossian Christians "you are not going to cut it because you don't know human philosophy. There are things that you haven't yet learned." But they said secondly, "You must commit yourself to the religion of human achievement. It is Christ plus works, righteousness." Notice verse 16, and here is Paul's answer to this kind of intimidation, and here the rather Jewish aspect of the Colossian heresy stands out. "Let no man Therefore judge you in," literally, "eating or drinking or in respect to the festival," or feast day, "or of the new moon or of the Sabbath day."

Now stop there. Paul says to these Colossians Christians "look, these people are trying to intimidate you with legalism. They are trying to judge you on what you eat, what you drink, whether or not you attend Passover, Pentecost, Feast of Tabernacles, Feast of Lights. Whether you make you sacrifice on the first day of the month, which is new moon, and whether you prescribe to all the laws and rules and rituals of the Sabbath day." They are saying, it isn't enough to know Christ, you have to know Christ and keep the Jewish law, and I would add there was even some Greek stuff mixed into this. There was even some pagan ritual no doubt mixed into it, so that it became very confusing. But the whole point here is, salvation and spirituality is based on Christ plus keeping certain rituals, legalism.

Now legalism is simply subscribing your spirituality to man‑made rules. That's legalism. Defining your spirituality by your ability to keep man‑made rules. Obeying God's rules is obedience, not legalism. But subscribing and defining your spirituality by your submission to man‑made rules is legalism, or to those rules which God has made and set aside in this age, and they become therefore man‑made for now.

Rest here: http://www.gty.org/Resources/Sermons/2143

It is similar to eating of pork too.  If we were to keep the whole law then that would be forbidden, but as Christ told Peter: Acts 10:13-15 things that were unclean are now made clean through Christ.  We are saved through Christ's righteousness not our own works.

I just know I am saved by FAITH, not works.  Would I love to keep the Saturday Sabbath and not work?  Absolutely.  But honestly, I can't for my job (which is where God Himself put me).  But...I am saved by FAITH not works.  So I won't be condemned for it.  Would God love for me to keep the Sabbath: absolutely.  But He knows I live in a WICKED world and getting my work done for HIM is more important right now.  Also, I need to do it all in love for humankind and love for God which go hand in hand.

Also, I am not saying that people should break the commandments: lie, steal, cheat.  That is breaking the second most important commandment according to Jesus, which are to 2. love humans as yourself (or more than yourself).  The first one being 1. to love God.  See Matthew 22: 37-39

Now, I don't judge anyone based on not keeping the Sabbath because Christ is their judge, not me.  The bottom line is this: we are saved through our Savior Jesus Christ as He is the only One who fulfilled the Law and thus died as a Sacrifice for us.

Also, the mark of the beast, as Revelation 13 is described as a "mark in the right hand or in the forehead' in the KJV.  Revelation 13:16-18.  Also, it is intimately involved with financial matters.  (Revelation 13:17).  Many Christians, including myself, think this MoB having to do with some sort of electronic mind control (truth is stranger and more disturbing than fiction for sure) as well as a tracking and financial device (maybe a microchip???).  I don't understand how keeping the Saturday Sabbath can even remotely be involved with finances? 

Anyways, I know people will disagree with me here, and that's okay.  We should continue to discuss this in LOVE.   bearhug
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: bindupbrokenhearted on January 28, 2012, 12:39:13 PM
@ Bindupbrokenheart: Your posts were excellent.   /bravo/
Ron Wyatt is very controversial among the mainstream of Christianity.  There's some good and some bad so everyone please take him with a grain of salt, and don't be deceived.
I posted this earlier on the other site so will copy it here:


Just wanted to check in and let you know TS I saw the redirect.    ::P

My father passed away 1-16-2012 so I have been busy elsewhere making arrangements and will get back to studying & re-reading your post later. Right now I have a lot to handle. 
I love you TS; you know that.  That will never change, but I think you already know on this we will just need to agree to disagree on the Michael the Archangel / Jesus thing.  I understand where you are coming from, and why you would believe that with the whole Angel of the Lord thing which confuses a lot of people, but I believe as does most mainstream Christianity that the Bible supports & identifies them as two separate entities. 

I wish you well and will be back later.   :-*

Love to all 

 bearhug

PS:
I Just watched this today after my original post. I think it's relevant... WOW.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eucVQtdvQQ[/youtube]

bearhug

MsTrinity, I am praying for you.  I am sorry about your father's passing.  May God keep you and bless you during this time.






To everyone: I have some serious personal things (not directly related to the forum) going on so I might not be on the forums much.  I apologize if I was previously on edge (I didn't realize how these things were affecting me) and I apologize to anyone if anyone was hurt (I don't mean to hurt anyone).  But...God is so Good...No matter how I was acting, God may have offered a breakthrough for something I have been praying for for a long, looong time, so pray for me and those God knows are involved with this.

Yeah, Jesus!  Luke 4:18

God bless you all here: Numbers 6:24

Quote
The Lord bless you, and keep you;
The Lord make His face shine on you,
And be gracious to you;
The Lord lift up His countenance upon you,
And give you peace

Sorry if this is off topic, back to topic.  I absolutely agree with MsTrinity about the Archangel Michael not being Jesus and about how to take info on the AoC. 

I do love you all; hopefully I will be back soon.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: jono on January 28, 2012, 01:05:53 PM
@bindupbrokenhearted

Excellent post! Exactly my thoughts on basically everything you wrote.. ;)

I also want to add this when it comes to the commandments (Matthew 5:18-48):

Quote
For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
 
Murder

“You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment. But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca, is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell. “Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother or sister has something against you, leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them; then come and offer your gift. “Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still together on the way, or your adversary may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison. Truly I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.

Adultery

“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery. But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

Divorce
   
“It has been said, ‘Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce. But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Oaths

“Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘Do not break your oath, but fulfill to the Lord the vows you have made. But I tell you, do not swear an oath at all: either by heaven, for it is God’s throne; or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. All you need to say is simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.

Eye for Eye

“You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth. But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

Love for Enemies

“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy. But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.


This helps us to understand the salvation can only come through faith (not works) and that it is really Gods GRACE and His grace alone that saves us... NO ONE can be as perfect as God, this is only possible through faith in Jesus because that puts us in Christ (Romans 6:23, 8:1, Galatians 3:26 etc, etc).
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: RK on January 28, 2012, 01:30:34 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHV1ONSeBt4&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHV1ONSeBt4&feature=related)
This is a link to a message by Chuck Missler titled The 7th Day. It is very detailed and thorough  It is also a couple of hours long.
He says that anyone who thinks this is a simple argument hasn't really studied it. The idea of the sabbath was established in Eden when God rested from His work. It predates the Mosiac law, as in it God says to" remember" the sabbath and to keep it holy. In Jesus' day keeping the sabbath  had become largely external and formal. Jesus shows in Mark 2: 23-27 the true concept of what the sabbath was instituted for. It was made for man.
I was  surprised to here Chuck say that he and his wife observe from Friday eve to Saturday evening as a time they decided to set apart. A decision they both came to after digging through the word of God.
He promises that there will be something in this to offend both sides of the debate.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: melody on January 28, 2012, 01:33:52 PM
@bindupbrokenhearted: In the spirit of continuing to discuss this in love, this is how I see it: to observe/remember the Sabbath is to show your loyalty to the creator, loyalty to his timetable as opposed to the timetable of the world; to have him as ultimate authority, not your house/money/job/anyone or anything else as the determinant factor to your decision-making. What does his word tell me to do VS. What does my bank account say I can do. Enter the rich man (Mark 10:17-31): he didn't murder, he didn't covet, he didn't steal, he didn't commit adultery, he didn't give false testimony, he didn't defraud anyone, he honored his parents, but he had his material possessions sitting on the throne instead of YHWH. He didn't want to give up his "richness", he saw that as a loss and walked away feeling"grieved" even though Yeshua told him that in doing so he would have treasure in heaven in its place. Treasure in heaven does not spoil; treasure on earth deteriorates (Matthew 6:19). The spiritual things are definitely more valuable. I think the Sabbath is a small test of loyalty in comparison to some of the examples in the scriptures. The characters/historical figures that showed the most loyalty in these biblical accounts would willingly risk/embrace death, give up their most precious possessions, or give up their elevated status in society in order to follow the Father's will, to avoid compromising what YHWH/Yeshua has commanded them to do.

I'm seeing this parallel with Michael's hoax (from the top of my head: Julien's auction getting rid of material possessions, leaving inheritance for your children (Proverbs 13:22), utilizing your opulence to care for his flock [charity], in the case that he is not living with his children at the moment, then he is giving up family for the sake of spreading the gospel [Matthew 19:29]). Whether he actually did or not, whether it's just for the "movie" or not, I don't know, but the information we're getting is in line with the scriptural examples. I don't know about the Sabbath though, lol. Regardless, I still see it as a test of loyalty.


@jono: the alternate perspective is that the Spirit enables you to walk like Yeshua as opposed to our own effort; no one can be perfect without him. edit: which is probably what you meant, my bad

"perspectives", lol. Reminds me of V for Vanquish.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: bindupbrokenhearted on January 28, 2012, 01:47:07 PM
@bindupbrokenhearted: In the spirit of continuing to discuss this in love, this is how I see it: to observe/remember the Sabbath is to show your loyalty to the creator, loyalty to his timetable as opposed to the timetable of the world; to have him as ultimate authority, not your house/money/job/anyone or anything else as the determinant factor to your decision-making. What does his word tell me to do VS. What does my bank account say I can do. Enter the rich man (Mark 10:17-31): he didn't murder, he didn't covet, he didn't steal, he didn't commit adultery, he didn't give false testimony, he didn't defraud anyone, he honored his parents, but he had his material possessions sitting on the throne instead of YHWH. He didn't want to give up his "richness", he saw that as a loss and walked away feeling"grieved" even though Yeshua told him that in doing so he would have treasure in heaven in its place. Treasure in heaven does not spoil; treasure on earth deteriorates (Matthew 6:19). The spiritual things are definitely more valuable. I think the Sabbath is a small test of loyalty in comparison to some of the examples in the scriptures. The characters/historical figures that showed the most loyalty in these biblical accounts would willingly risk/embrace death, give up their most precious possessions, or give up their elevated status in society in order to follow the Father's will, to avoid compromising what YHWH/Yeshua has commanded them to do.

I'm seeing this parallel with Michael's hoax (from the top of my head: Julien's auction getting rid of material possessions, leaving inheritance for your children (Proverbs 13:22), utilizing your opulence to care for his flock [charity], in the case that he is not living with his children at the moment, then he is giving up family for the sake of spreading the gospel [Matthew 19:29]). Whether he actually did or not, whether it's just for the "movie" or not, I don't know, but the information we're getting is in line with the scriptural examples. I don't know about the Sabbath though, lol. Regardless, I still see it as a test of loyalty.


@jono: the alternate perspective is that the Spirit enables you to walk like Yeshua as opposed to our own effort; no one can be perfect without him.

"perspectives", lol. Reminds me of V for Vanquish.

Hi Melody:

Like I said, I would LOVE to keep the Saturday Sabbath.  But...God knows there is more at stake in me keeping my job (which requires me to work on some Saturdays) than if I stopped working.  For example:

Matthew 12: 1-14

Quote
1At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn and to eat.

 2But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.

 3But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;

 4How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?

 5Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?

 6But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.

 7But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

 8For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

 9And when he was departed thence, he went into their synagogue:

 10And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.

 11And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?

 12How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

 13Then saith he to the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it forth; and it was restored whole, like as the other.

 14Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him.

Therefore, in order to fulfill God's work, Jesus did what God the Father wanted Him to do, even if it meant to work on the Sabbath.  He questioned (rhetorically and paraphrase) that it is better that I heal a man now instead of wait for the Sabbath to be over?  (see verse 11 above).

In other words, sometimes we DO have to work on the Sabbath if it is a life and death situation. 

Also, again, if you are in Christ, you are saved by Faith.  God will judge the heart, not man.  So, even though I don't necessarily like working on Saturdays, I do it BECAUSE God has asked me to, as there are lives here at stake.  If I told you I was a doctor and healed the sick, would that change anything?  Because this is the truth.  I am healing lives here.

I am not doing it for money.  God knows this in my heart.  I am absolutely loyal to my Creator.  He know this, as He knows I WOULD keep the Sabbath if I could or was able too.  But...He loves me and others so much that He realizes that some things (like healing) are best done at the present moment, Saturday or not.

With love

bearhug
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: SimPattyK on January 28, 2012, 01:53:44 PM
@diggyon and Wishingstar  bearhug X 77 ::P


[...]
SimPattyK, wonderful  collage of MJ and rainbows!  Wow! The link also has so much!  Just adding about the two pillars that Michael in Captain EO stands between, is like the 2 pillars of Solomon’s temple named Jachin and Boaz, and also like the story of super-strong Samson taking down the enemy  by pushing on the two supporting pillars and making the building collapse.  Sim, do you realize that because we are finding how absolutely vast this rabbit hole is becoming and how we are probably only scratching the surface, you could be gathering enough collages for a thick hard-cover book!
 OMG!  [...]
lolll I am glad you love the "RAINBOW-montages"... others told me too, that I could make an illustrated-book out of them all lol

Regarding the pillars the temple of Solomon ... those pillars seem to appear not only in Captain EO but also in YANA video  and what RK said about YANA clip and the garden of Adam and Eve on another topic.... I had made few months ago these photo-montages.... with some more info/interpretation added...

(http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/3382/mjlisadaybreak.jpg)

(http://img859.imageshack.us/img859/7747/montageatlantisislandya.jpg)
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: melody on January 28, 2012, 02:06:12 PM
@bindupbrokenhearted: Ah yes, I share that view. What I had in mind when I mentioned risking/embracing death was more of a "risking one's own comfort", being completely self-less, unconcerned about your own life if it came down to surviving or obeying YHWH. I do think believers should follow Yeshua's example in the case of emergencies when others' lives are at stake. Walking in the Spirit of the law takes precedence for sure.

@RK: the video sounds promising already, lol.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: bindupbrokenhearted on January 28, 2012, 02:54:40 PM
@bindupbrokenhearted: Ah yes, I share that view. What I had in mind when I mentioned risking/embracing death was more of a "risking one's own comfort", being completely self-less, unconcerned about your own life if it came down to surviving or obeying YHWH. I do think believers should follow Yeshua's example in the case of emergencies when others' lives are at stake. Walking in the Spirit of the law takes precedence for sure.

@RK: the video sounds promising already, lol.

Thanks Melody bearhug

And @jono Thanks bearhug  and love your posts too!
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Sarahli on January 28, 2012, 04:27:10 PM
(http://images2.fanpop.com/image/photos/11200000/God-s-Beautiful-Rainbow-god-the-creator-11283833-500-505.jpg)

http://goodnewspirit.com/rainbow.htm

"God said, 'Here is the sign of the Covenant I make between myself and you and every living creature with you for all generations: I set my rainbow in the clouds and it shall be a sign of the Covenant between me and the earth." (Genesis 9:12-13)

"When I gather the clouds over the earth and the rainbow appears in the clouds, I will recall the Covenant between myself and you and every living creature of every kind. And so the waters shall never again become a flood to destroy all things of flesh." (Genesis 9:14-15).

"When the rainbow is in the clouds I shall see it and call to mind the everlasting Covenant between God and every living creature of every kind that is found on the earth." (Genesis 9:16).


When the sign of God is manifested on earth, it shall be accompanied by a rainbow. The Spirit of God, when it descended visibly out of the heavens before the gaze of the prophet Ezekiel came wrapped in the following aura:

"Above the vault over their heads was something that looked like a sapphire; it was shaped like a throne and high up on this throne was a being that looked like a man. I saw him shine like bronze, and close to and all around him from what seemed his loins upwards was what looked like fire; and from what seemed his loins downwards I saw what looked like fire, and a light all round like a rainbow in the clouds on rainy days; that is how the surrounding light appeared.. It was something that looked like the glory of God. I looked, and prostrated myself, and I heard the voice of one speaking." (Ez.1:26-28).

The time of distress, described above, has already started, so that rainbow is not far away. The symbolism of the relationship between the rainbow and God's everlasting Covenant continues from one end of scripture to the other. Here are two quotations from the Book of Revelation:

"And then in my vision, I saw a door open in heaven and heard the same voice speaking to me, the voice like a trumpet, saying, 'Come up here: I will show you what is to come in the future'. With that, the Spirit possessed me and I saw a throne standing in heaven, and the One who was sitting on the throne. The Person sitting there looked like a diamond and a ruby. There was a rainbow encircling the throne,  and this had the resemblance of an emerald." (Rev.4:1-3).

"Then I saw another powerful angel coming down from heaven, wrapped in a cloud, with a rainbow over his head; his face was like the sun, and his legs were pillars of fire." (Rev.10:1).

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_zKuMwIApEFw/TEQEJ7c_hdI/AAAAAAAACNQ/UZ3tKZDSWnM/s1600/rainbow+in+water+droplet.jpg)
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Yambo3003 on January 28, 2012, 04:47:58 PM
(http://images2.fanpop.com/image/photos/11200000/God-s-Beautiful-Rainbow-god-the-creator-11283833-500-505.jpg)

http://goodnewspirit.com/rainbow.htm

"God said, 'Here is the sign of the Covenant I make between myself and you and every living creature with you for all generations: I set my rainbow in the clouds and it shall be a sign of the Covenant between me and the earth." (Genesis 9:12-13)

"When I gather the clouds over the earth and the rainbow appears in the clouds, I will recall the Covenant between myself and you and every living creature of every kind. And so the waters shall never again become a flood to destroy all things of flesh." (Genesis 9:14-15).

"When the rainbow is in the clouds I shall see it and call to mind the everlasting Covenant between God and every living creature of every kind that is found on the earth." (Genesis 9:16).


When the sign of God is manifested on earth, it shall be accompanied by a rainbow. The Spirit of God, when it descended visibly out of the heavens before the gaze of the prophet Ezekiel came wrapped in the following aura:

"Above the vault over their heads was something that looked like a sapphire; it was shaped like a throne and high up on this throne was a being that looked like a man. I saw him shine like bronze, and close to and all around him from what seemed his loins upwards was what looked like fire; and from what seemed his loins downwards I saw what looked like fire, and a light all round like a rainbow in the clouds on rainy days; that is how the surrounding light appeared.. It was something that looked like the glory of God. I looked, and prostrated myself, and I heard the voice of one speaking." (Ez.1:26-28).

The time of distress, described above, has already started, so that rainbow is not far away. The symbolism of the relationship between the rainbow and God's everlasting Covenant continues from one end of scripture to the other. Here are two quotations from the Book of Revelation:

"And then in my vision, I saw a door open in heaven and heard the same voice speaking to me, the voice like a trumpet, saying, 'Come up here: I will show you what is to come in the future'. With that, the Spirit possessed me and I saw a throne standing in heaven, and the One who was sitting on the throne. The Person sitting there looked like a diamond and a ruby. There was a rainbow encircling the throne,  and this had the resemblance of an emerald." (Rev.4:1-3).

"Then I saw another powerful angel coming down from heaven, wrapped in a cloud, with a rainbow over his head; his face was like the sun, and his legs were pillars of fire." (Rev.10:1).

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_zKuMwIApEFw/TEQEJ7c_hdI/AAAAAAAACNQ/UZ3tKZDSWnM/s1600/rainbow+in+water+droplet.jpg)


Beautiful!
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Sarahli on January 28, 2012, 04:56:02 PM
I'm happy you like it Yambo! :)
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: SimPattyK on January 28, 2012, 04:58:34 PM
Magnificent pics and post Sarahli!!  :) bearhug

These videos go with it and with what Don'twalkAway said on the previous page about the Rainbow, the colors, the light and DNA!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K4BUzQaCa8&feature=share[/youtube]

Music & Love
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fc4_xaWsQC4&feature=related[/youtube]

NO. 8 reversed... infinity symbol....
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=874SVIs3xgE&feature=share[/youtube]
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Sarahli on January 28, 2012, 05:05:16 PM
Thank you SimPattyK  bearhug I will take the time to watch these videos.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Dontwalkaway on January 28, 2012, 08:22:57 PM
Beautiful posts Sarahli and thanks for the videos SimPattyK.  I just listened to them all.  The one which is for unlocking codons is over an hour long but I played the whole thing !  I figured it doesn't hurt to try it.  I feel really peaceful and calm now.

Love you guys.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Suzy7 on January 28, 2012, 08:35:33 PM
 Jono, thanks for your posts and adding that about Jesus' commandments which I agree with. Romans is certainly helpful in clarifying this subject.

 Mjonmind, I also agree. Jesus was God's Son, he certainly wasn't "breaking the Sabbath" but rather, fulfilling it. However my point was: the Jews at the time did believe he broke the Sabbath by performing miracles on that day and thusly, did not believe him to be the Messiah. People who keep the Sabbath, believe it is to be kept forever and the New Testament says otherwise; hence why Christians are Christians and Jews are Jews etc. So the comparison between the two and the reasons as to why some keep the Sabbath and some don't, are not logical comparisons to make when making an argument against why Christians don't keep Sabbath. This is because Christians believe Jesus was/is the Messiah therefore, they do not keep the old covenant. For these same reasons, Jews for example, do NOT believe he is the Messiah and therefore: DO keep the Old Covenant. For example: Jesus' very existence and purpose contradicts the Torah, and that is what some aren't understanding. This is why Jews only follow the Old Testament and do not believe in the New. At the end of the day, whether or not Sabbath keeping is the "Mark of the Beast", is strictly dependant upon one's own beliefs. Mind you, there is zero Biblical support of that claim.

 On that note, I agree 100% bindupbrokenhearted, Sabbath isn't NEEDED for salvation. That is what Ron's claim is; which goes against Jesus who stated: it is not the works of man but the faith and love that gives us righteousness and salvation. There is zero Biblical support of the grand claim that the Old Ark of the Covenant will resurface and be crucial to our salvation. Also, there is zero support of any of Ron's claims regarding the blood belonging to Jesus for if there was, every Christian would gladly welcome his findings. If in fact there is, than by all means: please share along with the Biblical evidence.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Dontwalkaway on January 28, 2012, 09:07:00 PM
MJonMind, I just read what you posted about the Coral Castle.  Very Interesting, Thankyou for posting it.  You know I love this kind of stuff.

Also, all this talking about Jesus' blood and how it might have been on the arc reminds me of the Catholic church.    During the communion ceremony they hold up the wine and say something like "Drink this for this is my blood" and then they hold up the wafers/bread and say "Eat this for this is my body" and then something about "everlasting life".  They ring bells/chimes after the priest holds each thing up if I'm remembering correctly. 

And then the prayer/chant is "Through him, with him and in him, through the unity of the holy spirit, forever and ever, Amen, Amen, Amen.

Every one who has celebrated their first communion (usally 7 or 8 years old) and older lines up for communion.

In other words they are also saying that the blood of christ is of importance and it's forever but the holy spirit is needed.  And maybe the holy spirit is what brought the "dead" blood back to life that Ron Wyatt found ??

Anyway that prayer is starting to take on meaning for me.  I don't know if I'm remembering it perfectly ?  Is their anyone who can help me out ??  It's probably in a Catholic prayer/mass book which I don't have anymore.







Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Suzy7 on January 28, 2012, 09:20:17 PM
 Melody, you did clarify what I stated in my post. That is exactly the point: Jesus wants us to keep the spirit of the law through faith and not by our works as others have said. Jesus also made it known that now everyday should be as a "Sabbath Day" as we should know God and be grateful to Him for His creations and sending us Jesus as our salvation. But, much of your post is where Mjonmind's point comes in: much of the Bible including keeping Sabbath, was specifically directed at the Israelites; not us. God's New Covenant is ours to follow.

 Souza, I respect your studies and I mysef have studied Sabbath and therefore have drawn my own conclusion. I am fully aware Saturday is the seventh day, but it doesn't matter anymore anyway. You do realize if we are to keep the Sabbath to be saved; we would also still have to sacrifice animals at an altar for Jehovah God aswell. We do not need to sacrifice anything because Jesus was that ultimate sacrifice. The reason why the *Israelites* (not us) had to obey the Law, was because they were God's chosen people and were delivered out of Egypt by HIM. The Mosaic/written Law also didn't allow for sins to be forgiven; under the New Covenant we are forgiven and the difference between then and now is again: because of Jesus' death we are able to be forgiven and ultimately saved. Another example of the Law ending for Christians is at Romans 10:4: "Christ is the end of the Law, so that everyone exercising faith may have righteousness." Remember, Sabbath keeping was apart of that Law. God used Christ to bring that Law to it's end. Our having a righteous stand with God depends on faith in Christ, not keeping Sabbath. Also see: Galatians 4:9-11; Ephesians 2:13-16; Col 2:13-16.

 Now of course we are not to murder, steal, worship other gods etc., lol. This is where common sense comes in, along with what Jesus told us to do. If we are to "love our neighbor as ourself", we would not kill them; just as if we accept God and Jesus Christ as savior, we are not to worship false gods.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: ~Souza~ on January 28, 2012, 09:48:20 PM
Melody, you did clarify what I stated in my post. That is exactly the point: Jesus wants us to keep the spirit of the law through faith and not by our works as others have said. Jesus also made it known that now everyday should be as a "Sabbath Day" as we should know God and be grateful to Him for His creations and sending us Jesus as our salvation. But, much of your post is where Mjonmind's point comes in: much of the Bible including the Mosaic Law, was directed at the Israelites; not us. God's New Covenant is ours to follow.

 Souza, I respect your studies and I mysef have studied Sabbath and therefore have drawn my own conclusion. I am fully aware Saturday is the seventh day, but it doesn't matter anymore anyway. You do realize if we are to keep the Mosaic Law to be saved; we would also still have to sacrifice animals at an altar for Jehovah God aswell. We do not need to sacrifice anything because Jesus was that ultimate sacrifice. The reason why the *Israelites* (not us) had to obey the Law, was because they were God's chosen people and were delivered out of Egypt by HIM. The Mosaic Law also didn't allow for sins to be forgiven; under the New Covenant we are forgiven and the difference between then and now is again: because of Jesus' death we are able to be forgiven and ultimately saved. Another example of the Law ending for Christians is at Romans 10:4: "Christ is the end of the Law, so that everyone exercising faith may have righteousness." Remember, Sabbath keeping was apart of that Law. God used Christ to bring that Law to it's end. Our having a righteous stand with God depends on faith in Christ, not keeping Sabbath. Also see: Galatians 4:9-11; Ephesians 2:13-16; Col 2:13-16.

 Now of course we are not to murder, steal, worship other gods etc., lol. This is where common sense comes in, along with what Jesus told us to do. If we are to "love our neighbor as ourself", we would not kill them; just as if we accept God and Jesus Christ as savior, we are not to worship false gods.

You are mixing up the Mosaic law with God's perfect laws which have been around even before Moses was born; the TEN commandments. I never said the 600+ Jewish laws sill were in force, I am talking about God's perfect laws. But it's your own choice, all I can do is point out the errors in your interpretation of the scriptures. Can you answer the question why Jesus said people should pray the flight at the EOW was not on the Sabbath? Why would He bother about that?

Anyway, I am writing down my study but it will take a few weeks to finish. I can send it to you when it's done if you're interested.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Suzy7 on January 28, 2012, 10:24:49 PM
  You are partly correct, but the Mosaic Law IS used when referring to the Old Covenant, or Old Testament, including The Ten Commandments, but I edited my post anyway for clarification. The Ten Commandments were essentially a summation of the 600+ commandments contained in the Old Testament Law. The first four commandments deal with our relationship with God. The second six commandments deal with our relationship with one another. So there really isn't a difference between The Ten Commandments and the Old Testament, other than the fact that the Mosaic Law consisted of many more laws that all together could not give people salvation. Hence why we needed Jesus. It's quite clear that if you believe in the Bible, than you accept Jesus died for our salvation. If you don't and choose to obey the Old Covenant, than you are denying that Jesus died for us because he is the New Covenant to humanity. Again, that is the vast difference between why Christians do not keep the Sabbath and Jews do--it can't get any clearer.

 As for him praying the EOW not fall on a Sabbath Day, he was speaking regarding the times he was living in. Back then, they observed Sabbath and on those days people were to make sacrifices to Jehovah God; thus, it would have been horrible for the EOW to occur during a Sabbath Day *in those times*.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Yambo3003 on January 28, 2012, 11:40:03 PM
The New Commandment

 "A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another."

 -John 13:34-35

I think this new commandment summarizes all the others, in a way. From generations to generations there has been a confusion regarding the ten commandments "expiration date" when Christ died on the cross. Some say that we are living in a period of grace and the old law does not apply. Some dare to say that sin itself does not exist anymore. There are a lot of versions and interpretations that are passed on. I always have an opened mind about everything and pray to God for understanding of this things. The Bible is not that easy to understand.

Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on January 29, 2012, 12:11:46 AM
Suzy7:
Quote
Jesus didn't even keep the Sabbath! But why, if it is apparently the "Mark of the Beast" for those who don't?

At the end of the day, whether or not Sabbath keeping is the "Mark of the Beast", is strictly dependant upon one's own beliefs.

Suzy7-I am trying hard to understand your thinking regarding the mark of the beast law. From your first comment as quoted above it seems to me like you have the impression that because Jesus didn't keep the sabbath, why should anyone do it. It seems to me like you think the mark of the beast law applys only to those who don't keep the sabbath. To understand what the mark of the beast law aka National Sunday Law is, it requires some study into it. There is so much more to the mark of the beast than just the Sabbath. The articles I posted in my earlier comments explained how it would happen and what the National Sunday Law is and it's connection to the Sabbath. As it is right now in most countries and especially in the USA people who attend church do it on sunday. You already said you have researched the true sabbath day which is saturday. As it is right now people are worshipping on the wrong day. They think they are worshipping the lord on his day aka sunday. That is the day for satan being worshipped because he was the one who deceived the world into thinking sunday was the day of worshipping god.

The National Sunday Law if it goes into effect would be a law that would force everyone even athiest into going to church and worshipping on sunday the day for satan. There will be punishments for not going along with the law, for example the fact that we wouldn't be able to buy or sell, wouldn't be able to buy food, clothes, medicine, etc. So basically if I stand my ground and refuse to obey the law I will face punishments. The Sunday law would force people to bow down to satan. Therefore if people follow the law they will be worshipping satan and receive the mark of the beast. Below I have added some links to some websites that will hopefully explain the mark of the beast, end time signs, revelations, etc. you will defintely learn something new. I did. beerchug

Disclaimer: I am in no way promoting anything nor am I forcing my opinion on anyone. I am providing evidence. I have studied the evidence TS posted and have furthered my study into other areas that were not in his post. Some of the stuff I found out about within the last few days are in scripture in revelation 20:4-6, there is alot of info on the internet and youtube regarding the scripture being fulfilled. Read the section I mentioned and I am sure you will be able to figure out what I am referring to. Also this post isn't just for Suzy7, it is for whoever reads it and gains some insight. Or not. lol
  fresse/

http://www.endtimes-bibleprophecy.com/page19.htm
Quote
Revelation 14:9-11 ...'And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.'

The World has a choice to make, obey God or follow Satan

Now, the first clue we have to the mark of the beast is found in the above verses in Revelation 14, and the very next verse after them ... Revelation 14:12 ...'Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.' ... So why do the saints not receive the mark of the beast? Because they keep the Commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. So here we can see that it is to do with God's law and following in Jesus footsteps. Notice one important thing, it doesn't say that the saints have faith IN Jesus, but they keep the faith OF Jesus, ie. they follow Him. Many Christians believe that the law of God has been done away with. Well, God disagrees with them, because He says that the only way NOT to receive the mark of the beast is to keep His Law.

Revelation 13:16 ...'And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads.' ... So those who get the mark of the beast, have it in their hand or forehead. That's interesting, because there are another group of people who receive a mark in their foreheads ... Revelation 14:1 ...'And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.' ... So in Revelation 13:16, we have the one group of people with the mark of the beast, and then the very next verse in Revelation 14:1, we have the other group of people with God's Name written in their foreheads. These two groups of people are the one's at the end time before Jesus Christ returns at the second coming. They are the saved (with God's Name) and the lost (with the mark of the beast). But will there be two groups of people at the end, walking around with actual physical stamps on their heads or hands? Or are these 'spiritual' marks?

The mark of the beast is to do with breaking God's Law and choosing to obey man over God. But is the mark of the beast specifically to do with the Sabbath Commandment? Take a look at one of the three angels messages ... Revelation 14:6-7 ...'And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.' ... This is the end time call to worship God who created heaven and earth. Look at the words that are being used, these are taken from the Sabbath Commandment ... Exodus 20:11 ...'For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.' ... This issue of the mark of the beast and the seal of God is all to do with worship. Will we choose to worship God who created the heavens and the earth, and who set a special day aside for us to spend with Him? Or will we choose to obey man, who changed the law of God, and say NO! Keep my day instead!

PLEASE REMEMBER! In Revelation 14:12 it confirms that those who don't receive the mark of the beast, are the ones who are keeping the Commandments of God and follow in Jesus' footsteps. Those who accept the gospel message, follow Jesus Christ, obey God and keep His Commandments will not receive the mark of the beast.

Now remember where the mark of the beast is? In the hand or forehead? ... Exodus 20:8 ...'Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.' ... Where do we remember? In our foreheads (minds) ... Exodus 20:9-10 ...'Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work.' ... With what do we work? Our hands. Do you see this important truth? Those who receive the mark of the beast will go against God and His law. The Sabbath Commandment specifically deals with who we worship. Will you obey God and keep His Commandment, or will you obey the Roman Catholic Church and keep her commands?

So many people are waiting for a physical mark to come along, and are ignoring the Bible truth. If the mark of the beast was an actual physical mark, then it would be easy to spot. But take a look at the following verse ... Revelation 19:20 ...'And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.' ... Those who received the mark of the beast were DECEIVED! The whole point about being deceived is that you don't know you were deceived. So the true mark of the beast is going to involve subtle deception, just like the Sabbath to Sunday issue. Most of the Christian world keep Sunday as Sabbath thinking it's ok to change God's Law. This is the subtle deception that the Papal Church of Rome have brought in. Satan doesn't want you to obey God, he wants you to obey him, and through the Roman Catholic Church he is doing just that.

The number of the beast is 666. What is God's number? ... Genesis 2:2-3 ...'And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.' ... 777!

During the very end time, when the mark of the beast is enforced by law around the world, after each person has chosen to accept and obey God, or accept and obey the Roman Catholic Church. God will then look into the hearts of everyone and consider each person to either have His name (seal) in their foreheads or the mark of the beast. Those who don't believe in Rome's enforced law, but go along with it because of economic pressure (buying and selling, Rev. 13), they will receive the mark of the beast in their right hand. Who will you choose to obey and worship?

http://www.markofbeast.net/page3.htm
http://www.scribd.com/doc/13224723/Enforced-Sunday-Law-Coming-Soon-To-America-by-Vance-Ferrell
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Suzy7 on January 29, 2012, 12:14:00 AM
 Yambo3003, that's exactly it. All of the commandments were summed up in that final commandment. To love one another, is to not kill a person, steal from them, cheat on them etc. And having faith in God through Jesus Christ, is accepting the true God versus worshipping false idols. Very simple if you ask me ;).
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: GINAFELICIA on January 29, 2012, 01:05:08 AM
hmmm....I was reading opinions last evening.
Some say the mark of the beast won't be something physical like a real mark on our right hand or the forehead, but it will be about accepting it in our souls. i don't know what to believe about it.
Anyway, it makes sense because if it is something material implanted under the skin for example - nobody will accept it because it would be obvious it is the mark of the beast the Bible talks about.
Maybe it already happened and we don't know about it.

edit: now I see some say that not keeping the Sabbath but the Sunday is in fact accepting the mark of the beast. Some accept it on the forehead because they accept it out of conviction, some on the right hand because they accept it out of fear.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: jono on January 29, 2012, 05:04:50 AM
@ Suzy7

Great posts! ;)

I want to add these scriptures when it comes to the new covenant:

Quote
"I will put my law within them, and I will write it upon their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And no longer shall each man teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, says the LORD; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more." - Jeremiah 31:33b-34

"And you, who were dead in trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, having canceled the bond which stood against us with its legal demands; this he set aside, nailing it to the cross." - Colossians 2:13,14

"For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy. The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says: “This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds. Then he adds: “Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more.” And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary." - Hebrews 10:14-18

In the new covenant the law is fulfilled in Christ and written on our hearts (our God -given conscience).

"What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?" - Rom 6:1-2
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Suzy7 on January 29, 2012, 07:24:38 AM
 Correct Jono! And likewise, you've made great posts aswell.

 Im_convinced, I'm sorry I didn't respond earlier, I didn't see your post until now. I'll try and add some more info to make this even clearer, although I think I've said quite a bit. No, I do not think not keeping the Sabbath is taking the Mark of the Beast at all; in fact almost the contrary. Christians are not required to keep the Sabbath according to the Bible. And whether or not it is the "Mark of the Beast" (I'll use abbreviation MOB) depends upon what you believe, simply because Jews keep the Sabbath and therefore it would be MOB, whereas Christians do not and therefore, it would not be the MOB. Also, I doubt atheists think anything is the MOB given they don't even believe in God. I think people should be cautious before accepting that a law like this will even be passed, much less tolerated. Until we see proof this will come into fruition, paranoia is unnecessary and unhelpful.

 Yes we are living according to the Roman calendar, and thus Sunday is our day of "rest". This did originate from Pagan worship of the Sun, but since we are not required to keep Sabbath any day, especially Sunday, than no Christian is taking the MOB. You stated that the saints will be saved for they will not receive the mark if they have faith and follow God's commandments. Well, isn't that what I've been saying? We are to have faith and follow God's commandments of LOVE, see Jono's posts. This does not require keeping Sabbath, as that law was fulfilled and done away with. Jesus referred to the Jews as the "synagogue of Satan" for a reason; they chose to deny him and even killed him in order to stay bound by the Old Covenant. So although the fourth commandment commands the observing of the 7th day as a sabbath rest, it must be kept in mind that the Ten Commandments were part of the law given to the nation of Israel at Mount Sinai. This law covenant was a sign of *their* relationship with God in order to commemorate their deliverance, not to us. (Deut. 5:15; Ex. 31:16)
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Suzy7 on January 29, 2012, 07:56:21 AM
  To add to my above post, that specific law of observing sabbath belonged to the nation of Israel and is of the past. Christians are not living in the past but are living for the future when Christ's 1,000-year reign, which was pictured (prophecied) by the sabbath, will bring rest and peace to obedient mankind. Instead of observing a weekly sabbath, they look forward to this great sabbath rest under the "Lord of the sabbath." (Matthew 12:8 )
 
 Also, Jesus' Jewish followers after Pentecost ceased the observance of days and seasons. So did the Gentiles who left behind pagan religions when they became Christians. They worshiped and served God everyday, not just one day a week. For them to observe one day a week as a sabbath would be turning back to the elementary things and becoming enslaved to them, as Paul points out at Galatians 4:9-10; Galatians 5:1.

 And about Jesus praying about the EOW: I know some people may point to what he said at the verse Matthew 24:20, as proof that Christians would observe the sabbath. It should be borne in mind that Jesus was speaking to Jewish followers who were well aquainted with the great difficulty in trying to travel on the sabbath day because of their restrictions that kept Jews within 2,000 cubits of their cities on that day. It was Jesus' custom to illustrate his teachings with things which the people of his day were thoroughly familiar. In this instance he chose the great difficulty anyone of that time would have in trying to travel a great distance in Palestine during the winter or on the sabbath. Flight to safety should therefore be done before the time arrives when it is next to impossible. His advice was followed by Christians shortly before Jerusalem's destruction in A.D. 70. They did not stay in the city until the Roman armies under Titus had surrounded it, preventing anyone from fleeing, but they did before it was too late. Still, sabbath observance was not even being discussed here, much less proving Christians are obligated to observe sabbath in the future ages.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Sarahli on January 29, 2012, 01:47:32 PM
edit
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Do on January 29, 2012, 02:05:27 PM
MJonMind, I just read what you posted about the Coral Castle.  Very Interesting, Thankyou for posting it.  You know I love this kind of stuff.

Also, all this talking about Jesus' blood and how it might have been on the arc reminds me of the Catholic church.    During the communion ceremony they hold up the wine and say something like "Drink this for this is my blood" and then they hold up the wafers/bread and say "Eat this for this is my body" and then something about "everlasting life".  They ring bells/chimes after the priest holds each thing up if I'm remembering correctly. 

And then the prayer/chant is "Through him, with him and in him, through the unity of the holy spirit, forever and ever, Amen, Amen, Amen.

Every one who has celebrated their first communion (usally 7 or 8 years old) and older lines up for communion.

In other words they are also saying that the blood of christ is of importance and it's forever but the holy spirit is needed.  And maybe the holy spirit is what brought the "dead" blood back to life that Ron Wyatt found ??

Anyway that prayer is starting to take on meaning for me.  I don't know if I'm remembering it perfectly ?  Is their anyone who can help me out ??  It's probably in a Catholic prayer/mass book which I don't have anymore.

Hi Dontwalkaway, you remember it quite correctly!
The prayer you meant goes like this:

Through Him and with Him and in Him
 Your name will be praised
 Lord God, almighty Father
 in the unity of the Holy Spirit
 here and now and forever.
 Amen.

This is also said by the pastor during the ceremony of the table:

TAKE AND EAT THIS, YOU ALL,
BECAUSE THIS IS MY BODY WHICH IS GIVEN FOR YOU
TAKE THIS BEAKER AND DRINK ALL OUT OF THIS, BECAUSE THIS IS THE BEAKER OF THE NEW EVERLASTING COVENANT
THIS IS MY BLOOD, WHICH IS SHED FOR YOU AND FOR ALL PEOPLE TO FORGIVENESS OF SINS
KEEP DOING THIS TO REMEMBER ME
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: GINAFELICIA on January 29, 2012, 03:19:01 PM
Some say we keep Sunday instead of Sabbath because Jesus raised from the dead on a Sunday.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: ~Souza~ on January 29, 2012, 03:25:32 PM
Some say we keep Sunday instead of Sabbath because Jesus raised from the dead on a Sunday.

Yes, but that's totally made up hundreds of years later and nowhere in the Bible does Jesus say we should observe Sunday to remember his resurrection. Actually, Jesus raised from the dead on Sunday, because he RESTED on the Sabbath, even AFTER the cross, which is another indication that the Sabbath was not done away with by Jesus´ death.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Dontwalkaway on January 29, 2012, 03:29:46 PM
Thanks for posting the prayer Do.

  I had the main points but I couldn't remember it.  I couldn't remember the part about the beaker being the everlasting covenant.   

I think this is what Jesus told his apostles to do at the last supper.  It was an agreement so we would always remember him. 

Love

Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: GINAFELICIA on January 29, 2012, 03:36:45 PM
Some say we keep Sunday instead of Sabbath because Jesus raised from the dead on a Sunday.

Yes, but that's totally made up hundreds of years later and nowhere in the Bible does Jesus say we should observe Sunday to remember his resurrection. Actually, Jesus raised from the dead on Sunday, because he RESTED on the Sabbath, even AFTER the cross, which is another indication that the Sabbath was not done away with by Jesus´ death.
I know. But traditions are very difficult to change. And Jesus gave to the apostles/the church/priests a lot of power on earth .
 Matthew 18:18
New International Version (NIV)

  18 “Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be[a] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

I can't figure out if this means the apostles and the apostolic church had the right authority to change the resting day.
For the moment I say to keep both the Sabbath and the Sunday if we are not sure which one is the right one.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Do on January 29, 2012, 03:53:11 PM
Quote
MJonmind said: Finally, Do, I want to thank you for your lovely response to my post!   I was basically sending off my last post and ran (for work), and so I missed your post just before mine until now.  Also the things you added are all some of the many things Michael sings/says that stick in one’s mind as strange, but with the bigger picture actually make better sense, though controversial.


 bearhug bearhug
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Do on January 29, 2012, 04:53:37 PM
hmmm....I was reading opinions last evening.
Some say the mark of the beast won't be something physical like a real mark on our right hand or the forehead, but it will be about accepting it in our souls. i don't know what to believe about it.
Anyway, it makes sense because if it is something material implanted under the skin for example - nobody will accept it because it would be obvious it is the mark of the beast the Bible talks about.
Maybe it already happened and we don't know about it.

edit: now I see some say that not keeping the Sabbath but the Sunday is in fact accepting the mark of the beast. Some accept it on the forehead because they accept it out of conviction, some on the right hand because they accept it out of fear.


http://www.borntowatch.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5165&Itemid=1


Quote
Residents Of The U.S. Required To Have An RFID Chip Implanted Under Their Skin By March 23rd 2013

Law Of The Land, Another Hidden Provision In ObamaCare – RFID Subdermal Implants

ObamaCare will require an RFID chip implanted in all of us. This chip will not only contain your personal information with tracking capability but it will also be linked to your bank account.

And get this, Page 1004 of the new law (dictating the timing of this chip), reads, and I quote: “Not later than 36 months after the date of the enactment.”  It is now the law of the land that by March 23rd 2013 we will all be required to have an RFID chip underneath our skin and this chip will be link to our bank accounts as well as have our personal records and tracking capability built into it.

H.R. 3200 section 2521, Pg. 1001, paragraph 1.

The Secretary shall establish a national medical device registry (in this subsection referred to as the ‘registry’) to facilitate analysis of postmarket safety and outcomes data on each device that— ‘‘is or has been used in or on a patient; ‘‘and is— ‘‘a class III device; or ‘‘a class II device that is implantable, life-supporting, or life-sustaining.”

Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act —

A class II implantable device is an “implantable radio frequency transponder system for patient identification and health information.” The purpose of a class II device is to collect data in medical patients such as “claims data, patient survey data, standardized analytic files that allow for the pooling and analysis of data from disparate data environments, electronic health records, and any other data deemed appropriate by the Secretary.”

There are many articles about the obliged implantation of the chip on the net and there are also many people who have the chip already (mandatory and voluntary).

If you can only withdraw money from your account by using this chip, then you are indeed obliged to take the chip. And not only American citizens will have to accept the chip, also citizens of other countries.

The link below is how the Dutch government is acting on this. It's not very recent though. Maybe you have to translate the page, I tried but I don't know if it worked by copying the link.

This is a small part of the article:
Quote
In the mainstream media there are hardly messages about it: the subcutaneous chip. With the biometric personal proof and the central storage of your physical characteristics per 21 september, the basic condition for massive imports of this chip has met. The chip itself is only a technical extension. No one realizes that the few times that this subject is in the news, they presents the implanted verichip as a ' cool ' tender or ideal medical invention. The Government finds the subject hardly worth debating and refers to privacy questions invariably to the personal data protection act, which would reflect the fine on developments. These developments are unnoticed very far advanced. The possibilities are already more than we ever thought possible. Especially military branches of the Government and encourage the research and the megacorporations finance and implementation of applications ' for your safety "that since the attacks on 9/11 no obstacle in the way. The implantation of chips in the brain is part of a much wider programme that should lead to improvement of the human race: you surely are also for improvements?

http://www.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?from=nl&to=en&a=http%3A%2F%2Fanarchiel.com%2Fdisplay%2Fnederland_is_klaar_voor_de_onderhuidse_chip


OK I opened the link and it works, you have to wait a few seconds but then it is translated in English (although the translation is real bad).
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: ShyBleuEyes on January 29, 2012, 05:00:25 PM
hi all haw are you. i am reading this chapter and i dont aderstand why all are afraid that the end is caming. is not the end is a new begining for human nation.
21/12/2012 is anly a day were 1000 years of one raound of the san is end and is begining a new one. 
i just believe that like i believe in ather things.
i dont now why bat i believe that.
the end is near yes bad no one now the exact day.
GOD SAIDS:I WILL CAME LIKE THE THIVE IN THE NIGHT
SOW dont wayst  your time in minless thoughts that make you sad.
thing that life is fool of saprises.
GIVE all the love you all have in your hard in your lovesones, in your nayboors give a smile in strangers. look around you the sun is raising the birds are singing the most butiful song ever for you. the flowers are gave to you ther owsom parfum only for you.
WITH ALL MY LOVE TO YOU ALL
KISSES  ;))

 bearhug Your so right,

What a very sweet post Ovelias , it's so important to treasure the  most common things in life like, birds singing, and  flowers in bloom.

Love to you


Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on January 29, 2012, 05:38:54 PM
Im_convinced, I'm sorry I didn't respond earlier, I didn't see your post until now. I'll try and add some more info to make this even clearer, although I think I've said quite a bit. No, I do not think not keeping the Sabbath is taking the Mark of the Beast at all; in fact almost the contrary. Christians are not required to keep the Sabbath according to the Bible. And whether or not it is the "Mark of the Beast" (I'll use abbreviation MOB) depends upon what you believe, simply because Jews keep the Sabbath and therefore it would be MOB, whereas Christians do not and therefore, it would not be the MOB. Also, I doubt atheists think anything is the MOB given they don't even believe in God. I think people should be cautious before accepting that a law like this will even be passed, much less tolerated. Until we see proof this will come into fruition, paranoia is unnecessary and unhelpful.

Yes we are living according to the Roman calendar, and thus Sunday is our day of "rest". This did originate from Pagan worship of the Sun, but since we are not required to keep Sabbath any day, especially Sunday, than no Christian is taking the MOB. You stated that the saints will be saved for they will not receive the mark if they have faith and follow God's commandments. Well, isn't that what I've been saying? We are to have faith and follow God's commandments of LOVE, see Jono's posts. This does not require keeping Sabbath, as that law was fulfilled and done away with. Jesus referred to the Jews as the "synagogue of Satan" for a reason; they chose to deny him and even killed him in order to stay bound by the Old Covenant. So although the fourth commandment commands the observing of the 7th day as a sabbath rest, it must be kept in mind that the Ten Commandments were part of the law given to the nation of Israel at Mount Sinai. This law covenant was a sign of *their* relationship with God in order to commemorate their deliverance, not to us. (Deut. 5:15; Ex. 31:16)

Suzy7- I really think you don't grasp the concept of what the mark of the beast law aka sunday law is. This has nothing to do with whether or not someone is a Christian or Jew. It does not matter if someone believes in God or not. This has to do with Revelation 13 and below is the scripture pointing out what the mark of the beast means for EVERYONE. This is not about Jews keeping the Sabbath and therefore they receive the mark of the beast because they are. This has nothing to do with Christians and them not keeping the Sabbath and therefore they don't receive the mark of the beast. The Sabbath is technically supposed to be kept on Saturday and when the mark of the beast law is enforced people will be forced to keep the Sabbath on the wrong day, Sunday. Now if we refuse to go along with the law and refuse to go to church on sunday then we will not receive the mark of the beast. If someone goes along with it because they will not be able to buy or sell, etc. then they will be taking the mark of the beast.

I never once said that the mark of the beast makes a distinction between Jews or Christians. I am neither of those because those are titles that have to do with religious names. I never said anything about saints. The info I copied and pasted said that and also the Bible says so.

One other thing about this mark of the beast law, it is not related to Jesus' sacrifice on the cross for us in the way you are connecting it. Yes I know that Jesus died for our sins. Through his blood we are given grace from God and offered salvation. I do know about salvation and it doesn't depend on works to receive it. The subject of that is seperate from what I am pointing out. I have said before this information I am providing is for the sole purpose of it being evidence and after that it is up to the people to study it or not. I have said my last comment on this subject just now and I respect your choice in how to believe so please respect my choice. I am not even saying that anyone should or should not keep the Sabbath. I don't but I know I should because the Bible has God's word saying so.

I do not just think this way independantly from not studying and not reading scriptures in the Bible. I have formed my understanding of this issue from study of the Bible in regards to revelations and I have read other info and watched youtube videos. This is not just my opinion. This information is not to make people scared or paranoid but to give them an opportunity to know what is ahead in the near future. The evidence is there for all to see and the proof will be in prophesies fulfilled.
;)

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation%2013:15-18&version=NIRV
Quote
15 The second beast was allowed to give breath to the statue so it could speak. He was allowed to kill all who refused to worship the statue. 16 He also forced everyone to receive a mark on the right hand or on the forehead. People great or small, rich or poor, free or slave had to receive the mark. 17 They could not buy or sell anything unless they had the mark. The mark is the name of the beast or the number of his name. 18 Here is a problem that you have to be wise to figure out. If you can, figure out what the beast's number means. It is man's number. His number is 666.
Quote
The National Sunday Law if it goes into effect would be a law that would force everyone even athiest into going to church and worshipping on sunday the day for satan. There will be punishments for not going along with the law, for example the fact that we wouldn't be able to buy or sell, wouldn't be able to buy food, clothes, medicine, etc. So basically if I stand my ground and refuse to obey the law I will face punishments. The Sunday law would force people to bow down to satan. Therefore if people follow the law they will be worshipping satan and receive the mark of the beast.
^^My comment from my last post. I also would like to point out that the subject of the ark of the covenant was in TS' post and that does have to do with the Ten Commandments.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: melody on January 29, 2012, 06:08:25 PM
Jesus referred to the Jews as the "synagogue of Satan" for a reason; they chose to deny him and even killed him in order to stay bound by the Old Covenant.

Technically, he was not talking about Jews when he said that. The bible refers to the "synagogue of Satan" in two places only: Revelation 2:9 and 3:9.

Revelation 2:9
New International Version (NIV)

9 I know your afflictions and your poverty—yet you are rich! I know about the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.


Revelation 3:9
New International Version (NIV)

9 I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars—I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.



If this is talking about a future time, they sound more like the Political Zionists/Khazars to me, not your typical Jew. Or am I misunderstanding the context? I remember seeing a topic about them once upon a time, back when we first started investigating the illuminati (perhaps I came across the information myself; my memory is a little fuzzy). Their main concern is political, not spiritual. I don't recall the specific video, but no torah-observing Jew would shout such racist and hateful things to people on the street. Torah observing Jews are not too happy about what these "fake" Jews are doing. Even though I am not Jewish myself, it bothers me that they are ruining the world's perception of the Jewish people. I feel the same way about hypocrites in any group, just like nations who have Christian leaders that don't make very Christ-like decisions (or a group that always gets associated with Christianity, yet they're a poor reflection of the religion).


@Gina: Jesus made it very clear that man-made traditions mean nothing (Mark 7:8'), his believers should not conform to the world (Romans 12:2), but follow him, be imitators of the Messiah (1 Corinthians 11:1), not imitators of the world (Deuteronomy 18:9), to be "friendly" with the world's ways is to be an enemy of God (James 4:4). I suppose the latter means, if you "trust" or "look to" the world instead of what he has to say on the matter, you're his enemy. I think anyone claiming to believe in the biblical God would be wise to look to the actual text itself, instead of tradition, no matter what side of the argument they're on.


@RK: just wanted to say thanks for the video; it made me reassess some assumptions. I never really thought about how Noah distinguished clean from unclean all the way in Genesis, or the bit about circumcision. What I gathered is that there isn't enough substantial evidence to say that Christians are mandated to observe the Sabbath according to the terms of the new covenant (essentially a new contract), yet no one can deny that the Sabbath is the seventh day.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Andrea on January 29, 2012, 07:23:56 PM
hmmm....I was reading opinions last evening.
Some say the mark of the beast won't be something physical like a real mark on our right hand or the forehead, but it will be about accepting it in our souls. i don't know what to believe about it.
Anyway, it makes sense because if it is something material implanted under the skin for example - nobody will accept it because it would be obvious it is the mark of the beast the Bible talks about.
Maybe it already happened and we don't know about it.

edit: now I see some say that not keeping the Sabbath but the Sunday is in fact accepting the mark of the beast. Some accept it on the forehead because they accept it out of conviction, some on the right hand because they accept it out of fear.


http://www.borntowatch.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5165&Itemid=1


Quote
Residents Of The U.S. Required To Have An RFID Chip Implanted Under Their Skin By March 23rd 2013

Law Of The Land, Another Hidden Provision In ObamaCare – RFID Subdermal Implants

ObamaCare will require an RFID chip implanted in all of us. This chip will not only contain your personal information with tracking capability but it will also be linked to your bank account.

And get this, Page 1004 of the new law (dictating the timing of this chip), reads, and I quote: “Not later than 36 months after the date of the enactment.”  It is now the law of the land that by March 23rd 2013 we will all be required to have an RFID chip underneath our skin and this chip will be link to our bank accounts as well as have our personal records and tracking capability built into it.

H.R. 3200 section 2521, Pg. 1001, paragraph 1.

The Secretary shall establish a national medical device registry (in this subsection referred to as the ‘registry’) to facilitate analysis of postmarket safety and outcomes data on each device that— ‘‘is or has been used in or on a patient; ‘‘and is— ‘‘a class III device; or ‘‘a class II device that is implantable, life-supporting, or life-sustaining.”

Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act —

A class II implantable device is an “implantable radio frequency transponder system for patient identification and health information.” The purpose of a class II device is to collect data in medical patients such as “claims data, patient survey data, standardized analytic files that allow for the pooling and analysis of data from disparate data environments, electronic health records, and any other data deemed appropriate by the Secretary.”

There are many articles about the obliged implantation of the chip on the net and there are also many people who have the chip already (mandatory and voluntary).

If you can only withdraw money from your account by using this chip, then you are indeed obliged to take the chip. And not only American citizens will have to accept the chip, also citizens of other countries.

The link below is how the Dutch government is acting on this. It's not very recent though. Maybe you have to translate the page, I tried but I don't know if it worked by copying the link.

This is a small part of the article:
Quote
In the mainstream media there are hardly messages about it: the subcutaneous chip. With the biometric personal proof and the central storage of your physical characteristics per 21 september, the basic condition for massive imports of this chip has met. The chip itself is only a technical extension. No one realizes that the few times that this subject is in the news, they presents the implanted verichip as a ' cool ' tender or ideal medical invention. The Government finds the subject hardly worth debating and refers to privacy questions invariably to the personal data protection act, which would reflect the fine on developments. These developments are unnoticed very far advanced. The possibilities are already more than we ever thought possible. Especially military branches of the Government and encourage the research and the megacorporations finance and implementation of applications ' for your safety "that since the attacks on 9/11 no obstacle in the way. The implantation of chips in the brain is part of a much wider programme that should lead to improvement of the human race: you surely are also for improvements?

http://www.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?from=nl&to=en&a=http%3A%2F%2Fanarchiel.com%2Fdisplay%2Fnederland_is_klaar_voor_de_onderhuidse_chip


OK I opened the link and it works, you have to wait a few seconds but then it is translated in English (although the translation is real bad).

Nice connection between the mark of the beast and chipping.  I don't think this is something people should just dismiss - if we are chipped, we are their cattle.  They will own us and know our every action and thought, and you can't do anything about it because the chip connects you to everything.  Don't believe that it will be good for you whatever you're told.   
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: bec on January 29, 2012, 07:47:09 PM
No chip.

No way.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: paula-c on January 29, 2012, 08:05:27 PM
The Book of Revelation or Apocalypse of John, in Greek means 'revelation to John', and is the last book of the New Testament

 

Revelation 13:15-18 says the book of the New Testament.

"And he had power to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image could speak and cause to kill everyone who refused to worship.
And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark or the name of the beast or the number of his name.
Here is wisdom. He that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is man's number. And his number is Six hundred threescore and six "

Interesting passage, but for many of us, a symbolic text does not, a priori, nothing at all. I'm not well versed in the Bible, or the symbols are present. I have serious doubts about the authorship, originality and authenticity of the final document , currently regarded as the Bible , and reading this passage, like any other, but I do not suggest anything except that the tangible reality inevitably leads me to it . It's been a couple of months ago I published a translation of an interesting conversation between Aaron Russo , a documentary film director, who in his later years before his death very closely committed to the claim of the conspiracy behind the attack on the twin towers and the reporting of other plots in the world of global politics, and Nicholas Rockefeller , a member of the series Rockefeller openly admitted that Russo that the ultimate goal of the global elite was none other than having the entire world population with a microchip under the skin and take on the "servants" absolute control.



Russo died weeks after that interview and the news spread on the Internet dramatically, but again, this would be a news story, like many others in the network impossible to verify if it was not because the Internet brings us the information and reality in a way previously unimaginable. We've all heard of the subcutaneous microchip technology, implanted to allow medical monitoring of people with heart problems and other medical uses against those who, in general, just have to say.




Also at the time we read news about the family "Chipson", an American family where all members have a subcutaneous chip since 2002 and feels the sea of proud. But not many thought would be a few years ago that the goal of anyone outside a chip implanted under the skin of every citizen, the plan was too shocking and unnecessary.




However, as often these things happen gradually, "cup to cup", by the method of supporting an initiative to go here and there, some well regarded by most of society, while slip news " rare "or" cute "by other media, and all supported by millions of dollars in advertising and marketing, human mind is transformed, it will" brainwash "the population and creating a favorable opinion to this kind of initiatives and projects, and this is the exact point where we are today.


If we go into corporate Web site can read the VeriChip company:

"VeriChip, the first subdermal personal identification technology, announces a special program to register. Firm and to be among the first in the world 'Chip'. We invite you to fill out the form to be among the first 100,000, and receive a bonus of $ 50. "


It is an advertisement of the firm Applied Digital Solutions , which launched a chip the size of a rice that is placed under the skin of the arm containing the basic information for identifying a person. The chips are made ​​by the company VeriChip , a subsidiary of Applied Digital Solutions of Palm Beach (Florida) in October 2004 received the consent of the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to market the product.




Your initial use, as we have said, has been personally identifying or medical store, but its uses are expanding into unexpected aspects until recently.


The company began selling Solusat VeriChip in Mexico in July last year. The cost plus the cost of implementation is approximately $ 200, plus the $ 50 annual fee for maintenance of the database. The handheld scanner costs about $ 1,200. The attorney general of Mexico and 170 other officials were the "vanguard" in Mexico and placed under the skin the "identificatory chips." Several Latin American countries are queuing at the door of the company's Palm Beach (Florida), to design a special device to track people in case of kidnapping.




The company still claims on its website that the chip provides a unique identifier and the system is absolutely "safe." The bio-chip measures 7mm to 12 mm long and about 1 mm wide, more or less the size of a grain of rice.


Contains a "transponder", a system of information storage and retrieval by remote control and rechargeable lithium battery. The battery is recharged by a thermocouple circuit that produces an electric current with fluctuations in body temperature, why implanted in the right hand or head.



 

Invested more than $ 1.5 million in studies, only with the specific aim of knowing what was the best place to put this biochip in the human body and concluded that these two places on the body were the most appropriate and efficient


However, technology is talk of a "safe" when the truth is that the battery that contains spilled inside the body would produce ulcers and sores in the tissues that remove the chip without medical supervision can cause irreparable damage in the body as well as the individual's death. More than 250 corporations in 20 countries are involved distributing Mondex the world and many nations were "privileged" to use the system, including: UK, Canada, USA, Australia, New Zealand, Israel, Hong Kong, China, Indonesia, Macau, Malaysia, Philippines, Singapore, Thailand, India, Taiwan, Sri Lanka, Costa Rica, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Panama, Honduras, El Salvador and Brazil. Motorola is manufacturing billion Mondex biochips year.






Other systems are being used for Smartcard for this, especially since MasterCard bought a 51% backing the company.



We could think that, as in many other areas related to technology, in Spain this one take years to enter our country, but again it would be wrong.



In Barcelona a very successful club, Baja Beach, led by former Big Brother Conrad Chase , an American citizen, was the first in Europe to enter the subcutaneous chip clients and VIPS for anyone looking to implement it. Apparently, this club has expansion plans for new clubs in Holland and Germany



                          (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/imagenes_ciencia/implant09_07.jpg)










                                                              Conrad Chase subcuténeo chip implanted

The chip is used today as a purse in these clubs so that the credit or debit card and cash would be eradicated completely obsolete. As Hollywood films futuristic are already beginning to see, the "hero" VIP should not make the gesture of taking the wallet to pay, but their mere presence and slight of hand would pass that through a payment gateway, the business will be charged the total of their client.

Interview with Conrad Chase

 In another radio interview, this guy, Conrad Chase , confessed to the interviewer that the CEO of VeriChip, Mr. Bolton , had told him that there was a plan to use VeriChip ID system as a global implantable and that in the future would be required to take the chip to access your club.

 

He also told the interviewer that he thought the slogan used to promote this type of chip was precisely that "there'd be a VIP acceptable in this world if they did not chip implanted under the skin", a slogan that Conrad was "brilliant" . Conrad, the former big brother, which overly muscled otherwise consider a current-mill type, appears to be a representative of VeriChip in Spain, so that interest can not only be offering new "advantages" technology to its customers but also a lot of money advertising this technology in Spain and Europe to expand its uses and reduce the level of initial rejection in the population.



He told the interviewer that in the near future, all legal gun carriers, should have a microchip implanted in his hand to qualify for the license and that the Italian Government was preparing to implement the chip to all public employees.
 

This, on the other hand, there would be new as they have reported many cases of employees of private companies, as well as the one above in Mexico, public entities, where this initiative has been launched. Conrad told the interviewer that he is a great way to completely replace credit cards to carry out all types of purchase and sale transactions.




The interviewer asks him where he got all these ideas so novel, Conrad said that talks with VeriChip and he knew that they were producing these chips on a large scale plants in Beijing VeriChip . That is, basically, in a very short time, begin to see how we sell this as the latest fashion. And after reading this, now re-read chapter 13 of Revelation.



"And he had power to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image could speak and cause to kill everyone who refused to worship.
And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark or the name of the beast or the number of his name.
Here is wisdom. He that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is man's number. And his number is Six hundred threescore and six "

Can you make your hair stand on end as me?. And now I ask you again very seriously what the Bible and who wrote it . It is something that millions of people are apparently clear, but to me all this fills me with doubt. And what is it 666?





"Apparently, these chips may have 34 billion unique combinations of individual identification codes, more than enough to allow a unique code assigned to every human being on Earth, using three entries of six digits (666)."

Which would lead directly to the number of the Beast 666 that appears in the Bible. The number 666 has become very prominent in our day, probably to make people become familiar with this number and operate from its symbolism, eliminating evil connotations that owns the number. Below some of the places where we can find, according to references I've found, especially the United States where we know that Satanism is super-extended.



Companies Koehring and Clark equipment used as part of the 666 product identification number on certain models

the stickers distributed at DuPont plants say. "To contact with questions about how to call" Mom "to 666)

The company's products Bliss-Hastings contained the number 666

The annual festival border number 85 (8 + 5 = 13) held in Cheyenne, Wyoming was promoted under the slogan "Rodeo Day 666"

The logo of the National Bank cards Australia contain a configuration of 666

In August 1980, the telephone company Chesapeake and Potomac Virginia notifying customers that the phone number of the U.S. Weather Service had changed from 936-1212 to 666-1212

The men's shirts made in China and sold in the United States had the number 666 on the label forming the mark of Kerman Scott Ltd.

At the official reopening of the Suez Canal on June 5, 1975, the first Egyptian warship entered the channel leading to the then President Anwar Sadat had the number 666 on his helmet.

The code number of the World Bank was 666

Some credit cards in the U.S. had a number prefix of 666

The P6060 Olivetti computer system used processing numbers began with 666

Computers Sears, Belk, JC Penney and Montgomery Ward had a prefix for its transactions began with 666 as was established by programming their computers

The shoes manufactured in Italy had 666 on the label. It consisted of a circle divided in half with a lamb with horns on top and the number 666 on the bottom. Later it was put in all Common Market products

IBAM teams in supermarkets had the number 3x666 in them

Visa credit cards represent the number 666: the Roman numeral for 6 is VI, No. 6 in ancient Greece took the sixth letter of the alphabet, the letter Sigma which looks like the "S" and in our Babylonian sexagesimal system the letter A represented 6. So VI (6) S (6) A (6)

Computers manufactured by Lear Siegler Inc. in the U.S. and Israel had sent a seal on one side with the number 666 which was subsequently discontinued.

The number of employees of the division of the Federal Government Medical Service was 666

The tax collection service ATF (Alcohol, Snuff and Firearms) had the number 666 in their employees' identification badges

In 1977, the IRS began requiring the number 666 as a prefix in the tax models in Individual Retirement Accounts. The codes are 666.3 to 666.4 for sickness and death. After much protest it was removed in 1978 and 1979 but restored in 1980 and 1981

L as IRS instructions for W2 Employees nonprofit corporations require the prefix 666

Some states had the number 666 in the documentation requirements

The security forces of President Carter had secret IDs with the number 666 on them

Chrysler Corporation manufactured tanks for the power of secret services portfolio that had the number 666 on one side

A contest sponsored by the Department of Education of Israel in 1980, was a game that allowed to make money if you scratch and got the numbers 666

The textile company introduced McGregor Clothing clothing collection for men 666

A phone company Midwest had credit cards encoded with the number 666

The identification cards of Japanese-made parts for Caterpillar in Illinois had 666 on them as part of the product code

Men's Gloves FLXO Boss Clove Co. manufactured were stamped with 666 as the number of brand

The company 's Hybrid Corn Co. Crow Iowa seed offering "666" as their most productive hybrid

The company sold a fertilized improved Scotty called 6666

Credit cards Telco Bell had the 666 prefix and then the social security number of each person

Metric rules in 1979 distributed across the country had 666 on each

The identification cards of cars manufactured by General Motors in Flint, Michigan, had the number 666 on them

L as Selective Service Card USA had the number 666 as part of its code

The telephone operator number from Israel to call overseas countries was 666

After the 1973 Arab-owned vehicles in Jerusalem had the prefix 666 in their tuition in order to identify the enemy in wartime

An album of heavy metal band "Black Sabbath" was called "666"

Mastercard started wearing the number 66 in his statements in 1980,

Etc etc .... Is not it amazing? We will have to tread very eye to these signals. Consider a device with these characteristics will not only access information but also, of course, send information, data, and therefore, orders the microchip.





 

Does anyone would think that a millionaire investments as being made ​​are made ​​only to make us "life easier"?

 

And above is of course a form of control of our identity, our decisions, our tastes, our way of life ... in line with all control initiatives that are being implemented in a rush (video surveillance, control of mobile devices , checks at airports, waste control, mind control, education, etc ... ... and so on., etc.). Once a primitive version of subcutaneous chip has been implemented we will be prisoners of a system that allows chips to extract will (remember the danger of their breaking into or defective exhaust) so it would be obliged to implant a chip version of increasingly technologically advanced, more complex functions that allow a not so distant future completely control all our decisions, thoughts, desires and actions. Without neglecting any danger to the humanity (and there is a long list), it certainly seems the most ruthless, a life dominated by slogans sent to billions chip by means of remote control from the organs of power. And it's really surprising that a book, write who wrote hundreds of years, say so clearly what is to come, almost without symbolism, literally as it was envisaged.



http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_implants09.htm
 
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Dontwalkaway on January 29, 2012, 08:53:34 PM
I am not going to lie, the news about the RFID chip is scaring me.  I live in the US.  There is no way I'm getting a chip and I don't want my family getting it either.  Besides losing all of your freedom and privacy it sounds dangerous.  We all have to fight this. 
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on January 29, 2012, 09:08:57 PM
Come Back MJ!
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: bec on January 29, 2012, 09:17:58 PM
I am not going to lie, the news about the RFID chip is scaring me.  I live in the US.  There is no way I'm getting a chip and I don't want my family getting it either.  Besides losing all of your freedom and privacy it sounds dangerous.  We all have to fight this. 

I'll go live in the backwoods before I let them chip me. and people thought I was crazy for always having a zombie apocalypse plan.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: BeTheChange on January 29, 2012, 09:47:36 PM
Wow....there's a ton to catch up on in this thread alone!  Thanks to everyone for all the great posts...there's a lot of info to process and try to make sense of.  No matter the topic, there is always different perspectives...different interpretations, and in the end we have to go with the one we 'feel' is the right one after having looked a wide array of 'evidence'.  IMO, though, as our friend Murray once said lol...as long as we keep God (love) in our heart...we will be fine. 

As for Ron Wyatt...I came across this while doing some research (not sure if it's been posted already---I haven't caught up on every post yet).  It's a statement by a scientist who spoke with Ron about the blood findings and based on what he's been told (by Ron)...he is supporting the findings from a geneticist/scientific perspective.  I know nothing about Dr. Dunkley and don't understand all the 'science' involved...so I don't know how 'trustworthy' his opinion is but wanted to include this here since there isn't much out there in support of Ron's findings (I'm finding there's a ton more negative 'opinions' than positive ones about Ron).

Quote
A Scientist Analyzes Mr. Wyatt's Chromosome Theory

Dr. Eugene Dunkley, Geneticist
August 1999, England

 In regards to the statements made by Ron Wyatt and his chromosomal analysis: I do not believe that any of Ron's findings or conclusions will effect the Seventh Day Adventists or their faith. I don't believe that he had a crusade against the denomination or any denomination for that matter. 

Re his findings-you must remember that Ron was NOT a scientist, he was an anesthetist. This is not to excuse mistakes in his details, but to understand more accurately where he was coming from.   I sat with Ron and Derek at D's house in Oxford and Ron explained to me what was done. I filled in the details in my own mind, knowing that there were holes in what he said, but not done to deceive, just a lack of knowledge. 

Karyotypes are performed all the time. It is a technique in which the chromosomes are arrested in metaphase by a drug and then stained with either Giemsa or a reverse stain, and then in this stage are separated and counted and characterized. There is also a banding pattern associated with each chromosome pair so that identification of the chromosome is unmistakable.  White blood cells are the only blood cells that can be used for such an "experiment". Russell's criticism is inaccurate because he omitted what would have had to happen for the experiment to take place. First, the blood sample was scrapped from the altar. The cells were resuspended in PBS (a buffer), which allowed the cells to re-hydrate.  Then, the cells were cultured. Only cells with DNA would be able to grow in culture, so there is no need to "separate" red blood cells, platelets, etc., because they simply wouldn't be present in a freshly growing culture. These cells were simply white blood cells in culture (a routine procedure).  Next, the cells (or some of them) would be taken, arrested when the cells were in metaphase (when the chromosome condense and are visible by microscopy) and stained. Some of the stains allow light microscopy,  but others allow fluorescent microscopy. I imagine that Ron didn't  know one type of microcope from another; he could use an electron microscope to see the chromosomes, but certainly not to count them or characterize them. However, that would not detract from the finding.  The karyotype would have been made, and the chromosomes placed in their proper pairs.

Ron was convinced that the blood of the altar was in fact the divine blood of Jesus because the chromosome count was 24.  If Jesus was ONLY human we would expect 46. In fact, if he found 46 chromosomes I would have my doubts because the argument would be that it was simply the blood of a human being (except of course that the white blood cells were re-vitalized after almost 2000 years....).  Russell is wrong about the frequency of chromosomal diseases in humans: a number of conditions involving either 47 or 45 chromosomes have been well characterized, besides Turner's, such as Klinefelters, Down's syndrome, Pateau's syndrome, Cri-de-Chat syndrome, XYY, XXY, etc. and in fact there was a case in which a young man was found alive with only 24 chromosomes.   

You must remember that Ron's inaccuracies in describing this finding are due to the fact that he did not personally do the experiments or prepare the cells, because it is not his field of expertise. He simply got the data and presented it with the understanding that he had. Russell may be correct about other aspects of the research (I am not an archaeologist), but he himself is not accurate about the cells and the chromosomes, and his critique suggests that he is being subjective.   

Of course, I only have the description of what Ron said to me, so I too have no hard data. However, if there is a need to explain this data I would be happy to do so in defense of the findings. In fact, there are several more experiments that could be done to further prove what Ron stated. However, I do not believe that they would be necessary, and in fact would cause a few problems (especially in this age of cloning, one would conceivably want to clone the divine chromosome and modify themselves). I do remember that Ron was reluctant to say anything about the finding, but he felt moved during his talk at our church, having met with me earlier, to say what he had found. He knew that I would have some knowledge of the field, and if in fact he thought it was dodgy he would NOT have said anything because he knew that I would be one of the few people able to pick it apart. He said it in his sermon knowing that I would understand it, and I feel to this day that God moved on him to do so that the finding would be spoken of and would stand the test. This convinces me that Ron is right.... 
http://www.arkdiscovery.com/chromosomes.htm (http://www.arkdiscovery.com/chromosomes.htm)

With L.O.V.E. always.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: empyreal on January 29, 2012, 10:07:09 PM
Quote
I'll go live in the backwoods before I let them chip me. and people thought I was crazy for always having a zombie apocalypse plan.

I agree. Never ever ever ever. I'd die first.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: RK on January 29, 2012, 11:08:30 PM

Quote from Melody
Quote
@RK: just wanted to say thanks for the video; it made me reassess some assumptions. I never really thought about how Noah distinguished clean from unclean all the way in Genesis, or the bit about circumcision. What I gathered is that there isn't enough substantial evidence to say that Christians are mandated to observe the Sabbath according to the terms of the new covenant (essentially a new contract), yet no one can deny that the Sabbath is the seventh day.

I'm glad someone listened to it.  I have to admit, I always get plenty of food for thought from Chuck's teaching.
Quote
Prophetic Implications

From the standpoint of Bible prophecy, however, there are some provocative enigmas which also emerge from the Seventh Day issue.  The Sabbath is an intrinsic part of the creation, specifically for man.50     It isn’t intrinsically limited to the Mosaic Covenant.  Sabbaths will continue as a basis for worship in the Millennium: For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.  And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.  - Isaiah 66:22, 23

Yes....no one can deny that the sabbath is the 7th day.

Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Do on January 30, 2012, 03:12:52 AM
Quote
I'll go live in the backwoods before I let them chip me. and people thought I was crazy for always having a zombie apocalypse plan.

I agree. Never ever ever ever. I'd die first.

I don't want that crazy control-chip either. But what if they deny acces to my banksavings, if I can't go to a hospital or doctor anymore, if I can't travel anymore, can't get my retirement-savings (which we are obliged to pay in The Netherlands), if I can't get any insurancepayment anymore or can't buy food in the supermarket, then WHAT can we do???
Initially, it might just store our medical data, but over time they will be adding more and more features and we may be entirely dependent on the chip. And there are unfortunately not many backwoods in The Netherlands!
Maybe I can live with you Bec?  ;)
 
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: GINAFELICIA on January 30, 2012, 03:18:10 AM
I came across this site and I thought it\e beautiful, somehow reminded me of TS and all the religious stuff that we discuss lately

http://www.reflectionsonthedance.com/Michael-In-Writing.html
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: ibelieveinmj on January 30, 2012, 03:42:15 AM
I just thought of all the poor kitties and doggies they chip !!!  Well, they had to start somewhere....but kind of makes you wonder what kind of experimenting has been going on with our beloved four legged friends.    Now they "chip" our bank cards and have us convinced that it provides better security. 

The more reason to pray for Gods' Kingdom to come on EARTH as it is heaven.  That is my only hope anyways.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: MJonmind on January 30, 2012, 04:59:46 AM
On finding safety from even such a situation as the Big Brother chip to control us like robots, TS does mention that the truth of the Ark is our safety somehow, just like Noah's ark was safety for the 8. So I guess we will learn more with the other signs what we must do to protect ourselves. Also MJ/TS always remind us that we needn't fear or worry, only trust God and Michael.  Good point about the fact that the Christians just before 70 AD and Jerusalem being destroyed, were warned to flee, which they did, long before the Sabbath. 


The Sign
Quote
God wants us to see the ark by faith.But not blind faith, gullibly believing everything that anyone tells us; no, we should have intelligent faith that is based upon plenty of evidence. Also, video of the ark and the tables of stone will be made public in the near future, shortly after the mark of the beast law is passed.


Also we should not assume that he is ONLY meaning the "mark of the beast" to be the National Sunday Law. I think we only assumed this because Ron Wyatt was a Seventh Day Adventist and they believe that worshiping on Sunday IS the Mark of the Beast. I believe TS/The Sign is only endorsing Ron Wyatts discoveries, and not the particular SDA faith-group's teachings. Perhaps there will be a law passed that every human on earth has to receive the implanted chip, for national security, medical purposes and for our financial transactions. I can see the possibilities for both, but for practical purposes I think the chip is more realistic.  Although perhaps TSL may also be implemented somehow as well, who knows.  Usually things are far more complicated than we realize.


Paula-c, your post reminds me of the movie which I saw, "In Time", in which people had a large computer device under the skin of their wrist, but the currency was Time to live. For instance a meal might cost a week. Evil powers in the rich area, who had thousands of years to live, were ever raising the prices of things for those in the poor areas, so that the poor were living with often minutes to spare, stealing Time from each other, dying on the streets, and living basically in hell.  It was depressing and unrealistic, but it could give a picture of living with the micro-chip.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: WhiteNight on January 30, 2012, 06:14:49 AM
I am actually far from reading all of the posts. I just started on page 8 where I left off but I saw some posts that really got my attention and I felt compelled to respond and make a reference to them. I will keep reading but I have a lot to catch up on.
The 'thing' with Ron that I think is really 'tripping' me up/out...is that he just so happened to find everything he went looking for.  Stuff that people had searched forever for...and then this guy shows up...always at the right time, right place...and BAM  :lol: there it is.  Either he was truly led by God and had His help in locating these artifacts....or he's a scammer..

just to play devils advocate and no pun intended here, but just want to point out that evil side can make man accomplish, discover and achieve feats too (as per what we have all read in the bible) - ...

here are some examples, to refresh our memories:

-magic practicing priests in pharaohs time were able to duplicate some of gods miracles
-satan used a snake to talk to eve
-star that guided astrologers to baby jesus - stopped by herod first (the person out to kill baby jesus) and (unsure if i should open this can of worms)
-people under demonic influence can heal the sick
-some who practice satanism can fortell the future.

satan uses supernatural schemes and tactics to overcome his victim. he is a supernatural being with great power to deceive (Job 1:7)

the bible also indicates the antichrist and false prophet will also perform miracles. and the bible also speaks about counterfit signs and wonders...

revelation16:13-14  And I saw three evil spirits that looked like frogs leap from the mouth of the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet. These miracle-working demons caused all the rulers of the world to gather for battle against the Lord on that great judgment day of God Almighty.

another interesting scripture is where Paul also wrote in the letter to the Corinthians that the miraculous gifts of God’s holy spirit would end. He said: “Whether there are gifts of prophesying, they will be done away with; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will be done away with.”—1 Corinthians 13:8

powers, knowlege of god (one on one) and miracles ceased. meaning that those who continue to do such things or posess such gifts MAY be doing so NOT under the influence of god but the influence of evil, WITH THE motive of distracting people away from god - or with out motive as they could be being used by the devil (as per bible)

does someone being 'led by god' as in this case constitue a 'miracle' or 'prophecying' or 'knowledge' - ??? hmm, dont know. dont have the answer... just saying and putting it out there. interesting question for those that believe in god and read the bible... (incl me)

please note I AM NOT SAYING THAT THIS IS THE CASE, in this particular instance...

however for those who are 'god believers / bible readers - really the two possible scenarious in this situation that have been posted in this thread, being "chosen/sent/directed/influenced by god" or "scammer/fraud/faker" are not absolute, as there is a third possible explanation.

again, not saying i believe this IS the reason, just saying that if we credit the bible for what it says, we have to do so in this instance also and the third explanation is just as plausible as any other.

not trying to be contrary or cause debate, but just thought it would be food for thought... by the way - I HAVE no opinion of this particular situation we are looking at (not yet anyway, thats why i am on the sideline til i understand it better and before i can not only choose but understand what i choose to beleive)



any opinions or civil comments regarding the notion of my post?

True about false prophets, but I do have comments on what you quoted.

Quote
"-people under demonic influence can heal the sick"

Not true. Only God can truly heal, or those appointed by Him (like the disciples). Satan only destroys. Do you have scriptural reference for this statement?

Quote
"-some who practice satanism can fortell the future."

Same for this: do you have scriptural reference?

Quote
"satan uses supernatural schemes and tactics to overcome his victim. he is a supernatural being with great power to deceive (Job 1:7)"

He is already doing that for hundreds of years. People throwing away God's Holy Sabbath as if it's not important and worshipping Sunday and 'strange gods'. The catholic church is the worst, but there are flaws in every denomination. Some examples:

"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."
Matthew 5:17-19

This verse CLEARLY states that ALL ten commandments should be kept, even the ones that might seem unimportant to people, till heaven and earth pass. We all know THAT didn't happen yet, lol. Yet the catholics are very much breaking a lot of them:

"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments."

So the catholics do this and break the second commandment:

(http://ivarfjeld.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/prostrate-to-pope.jpg)

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_JRkgseRT7NY/S-L0Fmc_XfI/AAAAAAAAB04/ECFgBP_KQOk/s1600/cardinal+levada+kissing+pope+benedict+xvi+bowing+obedience+prostrate+catholic+church+sexual+abuse+collusion+cover-up+hypocrisy+liar+vatican+cdf.jpg)

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-JN0HHwDdLvI/Tk88ci7yjSI/AAAAAAAAP3Q/a42Esurotvg/s700/Queen_bow_Pope.jpg)


And they worship this:

(http://www.abbaswatchman.com/Sun%20Worship%20Catholic%20picture%203.jpg)

(http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Roman%20Catholicism/mary_devil_worship.jpg)

(http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID9052/images/Fr__V_at_Altar.jpg)

But some probably aren't even aware, because the catholic church is trying to get rid of the second commandment: http://www.catholicbible101.com/thetencommandments.htm


Oh and they worship this too, which in my opinion is breaking the first commandment as well, since the papacy claims it can play God, forgive sins, change God's Holy Laws etc:

(http://static5.businessinsider.com/image/4bd6cc627f8b9aa225570000/pope.jpg)


Then they work on Saturday or mown the lawn, and worship SUNday, breaking the fourth commandment.

(http://derek4messiah.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/1sunday29.gif)

Oh and for teaching false doctrine they break of course also the ninth commandment. Many are also breaking the 7th and the 10th, but I shall not go into that. So Satan is doing a VERY good job deceiving MILLIONS of catholics already.

The Jehova's Witnesses are doing a better job, but they somewhere forgot about the fourth commandment, because to them any day can be holy. Not true, only the Sabbath (seventh day) is holy, not just every day, or no day at all. By going door to door, teaching this (and more) false doctrines, they are also breaking the ninth.

The Jews seem have them all ten in order, but they have a little problem: they don't accept Jesus as their saviour which also makes them break the ninth every time they teach some one their religious beliefs.

I could go on and on, but you get my point. Satan IS already deceiving for hundreds or even thousands of years (Adam/Eve/Apple anyone?).


Quote
"the bible also indicates the antichrist and false prophet will also perform miracles. and the bible also speaks about counterfit signs and wonders...

revelation16:13-14  And I saw three evil spirits that looked like frogs leap from the mouth of the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet. These miracle-working demons caused all the rulers of the world to gather for battle against the Lord on that great judgment day of God Almighty."

This verse refers to the beasts from Revelation 13 (5th and 6th beasts) and Revelation 17 (8th beast, which is the same as the 5th):

"And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority." (Revelation 13:1-2)


"And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon [FALSE PROPHET]. And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him [IMAGE OF FORMER BEAST], and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed." (Revelation 13:11-12)


"So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is." (Revelation 17:3-6)


So the false prophet mentioned in the verse you qouted from Revelation 16, is actually a beast (world power, USA), the sixth one that is the image of the fifth/eight beast (Vatican). Ron was not a world power, far from it. He might have been an American, but if he would have been a false prophet for the image of the beasts, we all would have know him and his discoveries. But hardly anyone does: he is ridiculed and attacked and his discoveries are mocked and done away with. Also, the false prophet in Revelation 16 deceives people during the plagues, AFTER the mark of the beast. Thus this verse can in no way refer to Ron Wyatt. Plus I agree with jono about 1 John 4:2.


Quote
"another interesting scripture is where Paul also wrote in the letter to the Corinthians that the miraculous gifts of God’s holy spirit would end. He said: “Whether there are gifts of prophesying, they will be done away with; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will be done away with.”—1 Corinthians 13:8

powers, knowlege of god (one on one) and miracles ceased. meaning that those who continue to do such things or posess such gifts MAY be doing so NOT under the influence of god but the influence of evil, WITH THE motive of distracting people away from god - or with out motive as they could be being used by the devil (as per bible)

does someone being 'led by god' as in this case constitue a 'miracle' or 'prophecying' or 'knowledge' - ??? hmm, dont know. dont have the answer... just saying and putting it out there. interesting question for those that believe in god and read the bible... (incl me)"

Paul wrote this nearly 2000 years ago and he is talking about the time after Christ until the end of the 1335 days of Daniel 12. There will be no more miracles, no more prophets, no more scriptural knowledge (because Satan is doing his best to deceive the whole world):

"But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book [NO UNDERSTANDING], even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased [KNOWLEDGE WILL RETURN]. Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river. And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders [WHEN WILL THERE BE UNDERSTANDING OF THIS PROPHECY]? And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half [3.5 YEARS ARE 1260 DAYS, WHICH IN BIBLE PROPHECY MEANS 1260 YEARS, BUT NO BEGINNING OR END IS GIVEN] ; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished. And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand. And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up [STARTING POINT GIVEN (PAPACY), SAME ENDING POINT], there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days [BECAUSE THESE 'WONDERS' WIL END THEN]."
Daniel 12:8-13

Those who did the math on Daniel know that these 1335 years are passed already about 150+ years ago. Why are those blessed who wait? Because that is when understanding of the scriptures returned; the book of Daniel was no longer sealed. And what happens at the time of the end: knowledge shall INCREASE so that the truth can prevail. So actually that verse of Paul you quoted verifies Ron and his discoveries even more. Paul was referring to the years BEFORE the end of the time prophecy in Daniel.




Souza: Great post about the Roman Catholic Church! I’m glad that people are finally discussing this subject. When I started my video series, I was not sure how people would take it. Since you have quoted from the book of Revelation and mentioned the ‘Whore of Babylon’ , I would like to post the first 3 episodes of my series dealing with Michael and his encoded message about this subject. I am definitely going to post my series on the new forum MichaelsArmyofLove. I would like to start a discussion about it on that other forum now that I am seeing more of us open up our minds to this information. But for now, here are the first 3 episodes of my series:

Important Note!
These videos may be blocked in some countries due to copyright issues. If you cannot see the episodes because they are blocked in your country, go to hidemyass.com and paste these links in the box and click ‘hide my ass’>>>>>>

Episode 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCs-Y1SkI-Q
Episode 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pt0A7vKMuw8
Episode 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw_Qm14CPdg

Episode 1
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCs-Y1SkI-Q [/youtube]

Episode 2
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pt0A7vKMuw8[/youtube]

Episode 3
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw_Qm14CPdg[/youtube]

And Thanks again Souza for posting that info about the Sabbath. Now as for the seventh day, I have had a really hard time with my family on this one but I’m working on it. We were brought up to keep Sunday, the false Sabbath. I have been showing them the biblical proof along with a lot of the information that you posted about the Sabbath.

For those of you having issues with this particular subject:

The 10 Commandments are 10 Commandments! Nothing has changed. They are Gods laws and He is adamant that we follow them. Keeping His commandments was not meant to be easy or convenient. The choice is yours to follow them of not to follow them. But there is no in-between. There is no gray. It is either black or white. That sounds harsh but it’s the truth. God does not want us to be ‘lukewarm’! He will surely spit us out if we are! 

The Mark of the Beast LAW: WOAH! Thank you for posting this info Im_convincedmjalive!! That’s the info I was wondering about when I posted on the other forum asking TS to clarify. The mark of the beast IS NOT A RFID Chip!!!! It’s Sunday worship! All that BS circulating about that RFID Chip being the mark of the beast is propaganda that has been spread by the Jesuits.

And BTW...The belief that 'Sunday worship' is the mark of the beast is NOT a belief exclusively held by the SDA. There are non-SDAs that believe this to be the mark as well but I will not get in to that. My post is already long enough as it is. I'll let you all do your own research on the matter if you care enough to do so.


Here are the links that Im_convincedmjalive gave us again just so that people can check them out if they haven’t:
http://www.wyattarchaeology.com/nsl.pdf
http://www.markofbeast.net/page3.htm

All of you are making amazing posts and I will continue to read on until I can catch up. I’m just really enjoying this journey. It’s been amazing! I thank God for this everyday!

I send LOVE to all of you! <3
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: GINAFELICIA on January 30, 2012, 07:39:49 AM
OK if I have to make a choise at this moment, I would find it easy to switch from keeping the Sunday to keeping the Saturday.  In fact for many years I wasn't sure about keeping the Sunday.  Some say the Old Testament is only for the jews, why would we keep the laws God made for them??
Still....Jesus was also a jew, wasn't he? And we still follow him, don't we?
Our ortodox church says we should obey the church because it has authority from Jesus (Mathew 18:18). I have a problem understanding if the authority was given only to the apostles or also to the priests who came after the apostles. Something doesn't sound right to me though in this picture.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: paula-c on January 30, 2012, 10:28:56 AM
I am actually far from reading all of the posts. I just started on page 8 where I left off but I saw some posts that really got my attention and I felt compelled to respond and make a reference to them. I will keep reading but I have a lot to catch up on.
The 'thing' with Ron that I think is really 'tripping' me up/out...is that he just so happened to find everything he went looking for.  Stuff that people had searched forever for...and then this guy shows up...always at the right time, right place...and BAM  :lol: there it is.  Either he was truly led by God and had His help in locating these artifacts....or he's a scammer..

just to play devils advocate and no pun intended here, but just want to point out that evil side can make man accomplish, discover and achieve feats too (as per what we have all read in the bible) - ...

here are some examples, to refresh our memories:

-magic practicing priests in pharaohs time were able to duplicate some of gods miracles
-satan used a snake to talk to eve
-star that guided astrologers to baby jesus - stopped by herod first (the person out to kill baby jesus) and (unsure if i should open this can of worms)
-people under demonic influence can heal the sick
-some who practice satanism can fortell the future.

satan uses supernatural schemes and tactics to overcome his victim. he is a supernatural being with great power to deceive (Job 1:7)

the bible also indicates the antichrist and false prophet will also perform miracles. and the bible also speaks about counterfit signs and wonders...

revelation16:13-14  And I saw three evil spirits that looked like frogs leap from the mouth of the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet. These miracle-working demons caused all the rulers of the world to gather for battle against the Lord on that great judgment day of God Almighty.

another interesting scripture is where Paul also wrote in the letter to the Corinthians that the miraculous gifts of God’s holy spirit would end. He said: “Whether there are gifts of prophesying, they will be done away with; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will be done away with.”—1 Corinthians 13:8

powers, knowlege of god (one on one) and miracles ceased. meaning that those who continue to do such things or posess such gifts MAY be doing so NOT under the influence of god but the influence of evil, WITH THE motive of distracting people away from god - or with out motive as they could be being used by the devil (as per bible)

does someone being 'led by god' as in this case constitue a 'miracle' or 'prophecying' or 'knowledge' - ??? hmm, dont know. dont have the answer... just saying and putting it out there. interesting question for those that believe in god and read the bible... (incl me)

please note I AM NOT SAYING THAT THIS IS THE CASE, in this particular instance...

however for those who are 'god believers / bible readers - really the two possible scenarious in this situation that have been posted in this thread, being "chosen/sent/directed/influenced by god" or "scammer/fraud/faker" are not absolute, as there is a third possible explanation.

again, not saying i believe this IS the reason, just saying that if we credit the bible for what it says, we have to do so in this instance also and the third explanation is just as plausible as any other.

not trying to be contrary or cause debate, but just thought it would be food for thought... by the way - I HAVE no opinion of this particular situation we are looking at (not yet anyway, thats why i am on the sideline til i understand it better and before i can not only choose but understand what i choose to beleive)



any opinions or civil comments regarding the notion of my post?

True about false prophets, but I do have comments on what you quoted.

Quote
"-people under demonic influence can heal the sick"

Not true. Only God can truly heal, or those appointed by Him (like the disciples). Satan only destroys. Do you have scriptural reference for this statement?

Quote
"-some who practice satanism can fortell the future."

Same for this: do you have scriptural reference?

Quote
"satan uses supernatural schemes and tactics to overcome his victim. he is a supernatural being with great power to deceive (Job 1:7)"

He is already doing that for hundreds of years. People throwing away God's Holy Sabbath as if it's not important and worshipping Sunday and 'strange gods'. The catholic church is the worst, but there are flaws in every denomination. Some examples:

"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."
Matthew 5:17-19

This verse CLEARLY states that ALL ten commandments should be kept, even the ones that might seem unimportant to people, till heaven and earth pass. We all know THAT didn't happen yet, lol. Yet the catholics are very much breaking a lot of them:

"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments."

So the catholics do this and break the second commandment:

(http://ivarfjeld.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/prostrate-to-pope.jpg)

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_JRkgseRT7NY/S-L0Fmc_XfI/AAAAAAAAB04/ECFgBP_KQOk/s1600/cardinal+levada+kissing+pope+benedict+xvi+bowing+obedience+prostrate+catholic+church+sexual+abuse+collusion+cover-up+hypocrisy+liar+vatican+cdf.jpg)

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-JN0HHwDdLvI/Tk88ci7yjSI/AAAAAAAAP3Q/a42Esurotvg/s700/Queen_bow_Pope.jpg)


And they worship this:

(http://www.abbaswatchman.com/Sun%20Worship%20Catholic%20picture%203.jpg)

(http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Roman%20Catholicism/mary_devil_worship.jpg)

(http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID9052/images/Fr__V_at_Altar.jpg)

But some probably aren't even aware, because the catholic church is trying to get rid of the second commandment: http://www.catholicbible101.com/thetencommandments.htm


Oh and they worship this too, which in my opinion is breaking the first commandment as well, since the papacy claims it can play God, forgive sins, change God's Holy Laws etc:

(http://static5.businessinsider.com/image/4bd6cc627f8b9aa225570000/pope.jpg)


Then they work on Saturday or mown the lawn, and worship SUNday, breaking the fourth commandment.

(http://derek4messiah.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/1sunday29.gif)

Oh and for teaching false doctrine they break of course also the ninth commandment. Many are also breaking the 7th and the 10th, but I shall not go into that. So Satan is doing a VERY good job deceiving MILLIONS of catholics already.

The Jehova's Witnesses are doing a better job, but they somewhere forgot about the fourth commandment, because to them any day can be holy. Not true, only the Sabbath (seventh day) is holy, not just every day, or no day at all. By going door to door, teaching this (and more) false doctrines, they are also breaking the ninth.

The Jews seem have them all ten in order, but they have a little problem: they don't accept Jesus as their saviour which also makes them break the ninth every time they teach some one their religious beliefs.

I could go on and on, but you get my point. Satan IS already deceiving for hundreds or even thousands of years (Adam/Eve/Apple anyone?).


Quote
"the bible also indicates the antichrist and false prophet will also perform miracles. and the bible also speaks about counterfit signs and wonders...

revelation16:13-14  And I saw three evil spirits that looked like frogs leap from the mouth of the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet. These miracle-working demons caused all the rulers of the world to gather for battle against the Lord on that great judgment day of God Almighty."

This verse refers to the beasts from Revelation 13 (5th and 6th beasts) and Revelation 17 (8th beast, which is the same as the 5th):

"And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority." (Revelation 13:1-2)


"And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon [FALSE PROPHET]. And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him [IMAGE OF FORMER BEAST], and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed." (Revelation 13:11-12)


"So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is." (Revelation 17:3-6)


So the false prophet mentioned in the verse you qouted from Revelation 16, is actually a beast (world power, USA), the sixth one that is the image of the fifth/eight beast (Vatican). Ron was not a world power, far from it. He might have been an American, but if he would have been a false prophet for the image of the beasts, we all would have know him and his discoveries. But hardly anyone does: he is ridiculed and attacked and his discoveries are mocked and done away with. Also, the false prophet in Revelation 16 deceives people during the plagues, AFTER the mark of the beast. Thus this verse can in no way refer to Ron Wyatt. Plus I agree with jono about 1 John 4:2.


Quote
"another interesting scripture is where Paul also wrote in the letter to the Corinthians that the miraculous gifts of God’s holy spirit would end. He said: “Whether there are gifts of prophesying, they will be done away with; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will be done away with.”—1 Corinthians 13:8

powers, knowlege of god (one on one) and miracles ceased. meaning that those who continue to do such things or posess such gifts MAY be doing so NOT under the influence of god but the influence of evil, WITH THE motive of distracting people away from god - or with out motive as they could be being used by the devil (as per bible)

does someone being 'led by god' as in this case constitue a 'miracle' or 'prophecying' or 'knowledge' - ??? hmm, dont know. dont have the answer... just saying and putting it out there. interesting question for those that believe in god and read the bible... (incl me)"

Paul wrote this nearly 2000 years ago and he is talking about the time after Christ until the end of the 1335 days of Daniel 12. There will be no more miracles, no more prophets, no more scriptural knowledge (because Satan is doing his best to deceive the whole world):

"But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book [NO UNDERSTANDING], even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased [KNOWLEDGE WILL RETURN]. Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river. And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders [WHEN WILL THERE BE UNDERSTANDING OF THIS PROPHECY]? And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half [3.5 YEARS ARE 1260 DAYS, WHICH IN BIBLE PROPHECY MEANS 1260 YEARS, BUT NO BEGINNING OR END IS GIVEN] ; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished. And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand. And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up [STARTING POINT GIVEN (PAPACY), SAME ENDING POINT], there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days [BECAUSE THESE 'WONDERS' WIL END THEN]."
Daniel 12:8-13

Those who did the math on Daniel know that these 1335 years are passed already about 150+ years ago. Why are those blessed who wait? Because that is when understanding of the scriptures returned; the book of Daniel was no longer sealed. And what happens at the time of the end: knowledge shall INCREASE so that the truth can prevail. So actually that verse of Paul you quoted verifies Ron and his discoveries even more. Paul was referring to the years BEFORE the end of the time prophecy in Daniel.




Souza: Great post about the Roman Catholic Church! I’m glad that people are finally discussing this subject. When I started my video series, I was not sure how people would take it. Since you have quoted from the book of Revelation and mentioned the ‘Whore of Babylon’ , I would like to post the first 3 episodes of my series dealing with Michael and his encoded message about this subject. I am definitely going to post my series on the new forum MichaelsArmyofLove. I would like to start a discussion about it on that other forum now that I am seeing more of us open up our minds to this information. But for now, here are the first 3 episodes of my series:

Important Note!
These videos may be blocked in some countries due to copyright issues. If you cannot see the episodes because they are blocked in your country, go to hidemyass.com and paste these links in the box and click ‘hide my ass’>>>>>>

Episode 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCs-Y1SkI-Q
Episode 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pt0A7vKMuw8
Episode 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw_Qm14CPdg

Episode 1
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCs-Y1SkI-Q [/youtube]

Episode 2
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pt0A7vKMuw8[/youtube]

Episode 3
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw_Qm14CPdg[/youtube]

And Thanks again Souza for posting that info about the Sabbath. Now as for the seventh day, I have had a really hard time with my family on this one but I’m working on it. We were brought up to keep Sunday, the false Sabbath. I have been showing them the biblical proof along with a lot of the information that you posted about the Sabbath.

For those of you having issues with this particular subject:

The 10 Commandments are 10 Commandments! Nothing has changed. They are Gods laws and He is adamant that we follow them. Keeping His commandments was not meant to be easy or convenient. The choice is yours to follow them of not to follow them. But there is no in-between. There is no gray. It is either black or white. That sounds harsh but it’s the truth. God does not want us to be ‘lukewarm’! He will surely spit us out if we are! 

The Mark of the Beast LAW: WOAH! Thank you for posting this info Im_convincedmjalive!! That’s the info I was wondering about when I posted on the other forum asking TS to clarify. The mark of the beast IS NOT A RFID Chip!!!! It’s Sunday worship! All that BS circulating about that RFID Chip being the mark of the beast is propaganda that has been spread by the Jesuits.

And BTW...The belief that 'Sunday worship' is the mark of the beast is NOT a belief exclusively held by the SDA. There are non-SDAs that believe this to be the mark as well but I will not get in to that. My post is already long enough as it is. I'll let you all do your own research on the matter if you care enough to do so.


Here are the links that Im_convincedmjalive gave us again just so that people can check them out if they haven’t:
http://www.wyattarchaeology.com/nsl.pdf
http://www.markofbeast.net/page3.htm

All of you are making amazing posts and I will continue to read on until I can catch up. I’m just really enjoying this journey. It’s been amazing! I thank God for this everyday!

I send LOVE to all of you! <3







In this link there is information, true story of the catholic church and the Vatican, from the conquest of America, the inquisision until our days


http://www.michaelsarmyoflove.com/forum/index.php?topic=63.new;topicseen#new
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: jono on January 30, 2012, 10:40:50 AM
For those of you having issues with this particular subject:

The 10 Commandments are 10 Commandments! Nothing has changed. They are Gods laws and He is adamant that we follow them. Keeping His commandments was not meant to be easy or convenient. The choice is yours to follow them of not to follow them. But there is no in-between. There is no gray. It is either black or white. That sounds harsh but it’s the truth. God does not want us to be ‘lukewarm’! He will surely spit us out if we are! 

And how do we keep the 10 commandments? Through FAITH! Remember, it is impossible for man to keep the meaning of the 10 commandments -> to be as perfect as God (please refer to my last posts).

Quote
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. – eph 2:8-9

Quote
“But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith. For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.” – Rom 3:21-31

There is NOTHING we can do to make things better or worse (talking about salvation here), salvation is a gift that we receive through faith! Not works..
Wasn't Jesus' sacrifice good enough for us? Of course it was!

Then my question is: What will we gain from living a legalistic life? Remember, that is exactly what the Pharisees did! And what did Jesus call the Pharisees?
“You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?” – Matt 23:33

There is a BIG difference between living your life out of LOVE (I am forgiven, grace) and FEAR (I got to keep his commandments or else…). If we live our lives out of LOVE we will keep his commandments:

Quote
Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” – Matt 22:37-40

Is keeping the Sabbath a matter of life and death/ salvation or "eternal fire"?.. Not at all. ;)
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: GINAFELICIA on January 30, 2012, 12:26:55 PM
Quote from Jono
Quote
Then my question is: What will we gain from living a legalistic life? Remember, that is exactly what the Pharisees did! And what did Jesus call the Pharisees?
“You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?” – Matt 23:33

There is a BIG difference between living your life out of LOVE (I am forgiven, grace) and FEAR (I got to keep his commandments or else…)

Yes you make a good point. Remember Maria Magdalena. It's true she repented later but her life was far from being "legal" before.
Anyway, none of us can live in perfect purity, following all the rules.
Most of us here are not honest about why we are here. For MJ we say...yes for MJ but the true reasons "why for MJ" - we don't dare to admit not even when we are alone with ourselves.

If keeping "pure" means becoming some sort of robots executing a routine just because they were programed that way....I really don't know if I want that. I don't know, I am not sure but I think God loves us enough to save us in spite of our imperfections. Love God and each other is the highest command and maybe if we have love in our souls it will be enough in the end.

edit: now that I think about it:
The Old Testament tells us to fear God
The New Testament tells us to love God

That's the big difference. And let's not forget the worst sinner can be saved by God when least expected, like the criminal who was with MJ Jesus on the cross on Golgota.

Luke 23:39-43

New International Version (NIV)

 39 One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: “Aren’t you the Messiah? Save yourself and us!”

 40 But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? 41 We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.”

 42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.[a]”

 43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”



What a gift!!!I must say Jesus rocked ...if I may say so.

Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: GINAFELICIA on January 30, 2012, 12:46:48 PM
My grandfather didn't go to church too much....he told me when I was a child: the church is in a man's heart.
I agree with him.
He also served in full the 4 years of the second world war and he used to tell me his story...he was newly married when the war started...those days the young men had to serve in the army for 3 years. When the 3 years were over the war started, so he was away from home for 7 years...can you imagine that?? sometimes I wonder what kind of material our grandparents were made of, to go through that hell and survive....
And he told me that before the final fight he was in, a fight mentioned in our history books as a true massacre, he prayed to God to give him an easy wound to be sent home........and believe it or not - that exact thing happened. He was hit by a bullet  in that metal cap they had, he fainted and ended into the hospital and then he was sent home a few months before the war ended.

I don't know why I felt like telling this story...it just impressed me how God gave him what he prayed for.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: suspicious mind on January 30, 2012, 01:30:33 PM
chose to accept christ gift and you will not be judge according to the law.
don't chose him you will be judged by the law which is impossible to keep.
just the way i understand it.

you know when someone started the thread examining something we have gone over before in a new way , including the religion factor , it occured to me that we need to look at murrays trial again with that same pair of glasses on.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: MichaelsAngel on January 30, 2012, 01:36:40 PM
Thank you for the beautiful story Gina  bearhug

I agree that it is impossible for us to not sin or at least near impossible. I believe it is more about loving God and accepting him into your heart. I just can't imagine that murderers can be saved and brought into heaven but someone who does not recognize the Sabbath isn't.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: jono on January 30, 2012, 01:46:29 PM
@ Souza

As I understand it, you think that it is imperative (from the studies you have made) to keep the Sabbath even in the new covenant?

Do you believe this is a matter of “heaven or hell” or just that it is something that we ought to remember?

Have you talked to your bible teacher about this subject?

With the love   bearhug
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Do on January 30, 2012, 02:44:33 PM
WhiteNight said:

Quote
The Mark of the Beast LAW: WOAH! Thank you for posting this info Im_convincedmjalive!! That’s the info I was wondering about when I posted on the other forum asking TS to clarify. The mark of the beast IS NOT A RFID Chip!!!! It’s Sunday worship! All that BS circulating about that RFID Chip being the mark of the beast is propaganda that has been spread by the Jesuits.



Like PaulaC in this thread and many others in the past already posted:


Quote
Revelation 13:16-18

New International Version (NIV)

 16 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, 17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.
 18 This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man.[a] That number is 666.



I'm being honest here, I have little to none knowlegde of the bible (so I can't discuss with you on that), doesn't mean that I don't believe in God and I try to live my life as good as possible. Now tell me, after you read about the RFID chip and that law on that has passed already, AND after reading Revelation 13: 16-18, that it could NOT be about the chip??
We live in the 21 century, we have a 24/7 economy, many professions have to be exercised every day of the week.
We must be aware what is ahead of us, not what was common many many many years ago. You can't turn it back anymore I'm afraid.
A few members said this also (Gina and Michaelsangel among them), I don't think God will punish us when we don't live by a Sunday Law, but I do think we will be 'punished' through the 'elite' by accepting the chip. Darn, I'm having a hard time making myself clear on this!
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: BeTheChange on January 30, 2012, 03:12:18 PM
I, too, had been leaning towards the 'mark' being some sort of chip that would be mandated (made law)...but I've been reading up on different interpretations and came across this website that (for me) explained things really clearly.  I'm only going to post the section where they talk about the 'mark' possibly being a chip (which they disagree with)...but I've read every page on the website and I'm now seeing how the 'mark' could very well be about following the Roman Catholic Church (which includes making SUNday the Sabbath---one of God's laws that they have changed and which the Bible clearly states NO MAN is above God or His laws).  For those interested, they go into detail about the history of the church, of 666, of SUNday worship, the Papalcy (which they interpret as 'the beast'), etc.  VERY interesting stuff.

I'm still unsure about God's 'wrath' or the extent of it for those who DO have faith in Him but have been or will be somehow deceived in getting the 'mark of the beast' (which I agree is a symbolic mark).  There are just so many Bible verses that point to God's grace, forgiveness, mercy and love....the most prominent being Jesus having died for our sins (which I'd think would include 'falling for' the mark or not keeping the Sabbath).  But then there are verses that are clear on breaking just ONE of the 10 'laws' resulting in having broken all ten in His eyes.  It's just so contradictory....God's wrath versus His grace, forgiveness, love, etc....that I'm confused by the whole thing.  Or maybe I'm just making it more difficult than it needs to be  :?

Anyhow...here's the part about the chip but I would recommend reading the other pages on the site as well:

Quote
Is the Mark of the Beast Technology?We just read how Revelation 19:20 says, “He deceived them that had received the mark of the beast” so we know that 666 and the mark of the beast has to involve some sort of subtle deception or be something we are already deceived on. If the mark was some form of technology that the entire world already seems to think is the obvious answer, then how could almost the entire world be misled? Jesus warned us that Satan’s deceptions are so deceptive they can “deceive, if possible, even the elect.” Matthew 24:24.

Microchip Technology - Biochip, Verichip or Barcode etc?
How deceptive would it be for someone to command everyone to accept a computerized microchip in their forehead or hands? The Bible does not specifically say it will be a microchip such as a “miniature biochip or verichip” or that it will even involve any form of technology. These modern words, “biochip,” “verichip,” “bar code,” “computer” and “technology” do not appear in Revelation. People just assume that it will happen this way but it is nothing but pure speculation. How many people do you know that would accept the government implanting microchip technology inside their heads?

The King James Bible is partially to blame for some thinking it is a chip implant as Revelation 13:16; 14:9 and 20:4 have incorrectly translated the Greek word “Epi” as “in” instead of “on” or “upon.” The KJV Bible is correct only once in Revelation 20:4 where it says, “upon their foreheads.” Thus the correct translation of all these verses is “on” or “upon” the hand or forehead and not in.

Most also seem to overlook the mark of God that also goes on our forehead. What factors define those who get the seal or mark of God on their forehead versus those who get the mark of the beast? And what is God’s mark? Is it going to be a tattoo, barcode or microchip? I think most would agree that the seal of God is symbolic and is not literal and therefore stands to reason that the same symbology also applies to the mark of the beast since they are in competition to each other. You cannot get both as you either receive the mark of God or the mark of the Beast. See Revelation 7:3 and Revelation 9:4.

We know Satan counterfeits most things of God and the mark of the Beast is the counterfeit to the mark of God. For instance, there is the true gift of tongues and a counterfeit speaking in tongues. Establishing what God’s mark is will point you to what the counterfeit is. How could technology be a counterfeit to the Seal of God? Is God into technology such as microchips etc?

2 Peter 1:20 says, “Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.”

Bearing in mind that the Bible has no reasonable reference to microchips or other technology, so this can only be considered as “private interpretation” and is neither allowed nor necessary. This would also be considered as adding to the book of Revelation, which also carries an extremely severe warning.

Revelation 22:18-19 “For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.”

Why do some think the Mark of the Beast is Technology?
The speculation that 666 or the mark of the beast is technology originated from error as those responsible did not even notice that 666 and the MARK are two separate symbols. Even today most still assume that 666 is the mark of the beast because they do not carefully read what the Bible does say. So when barcodes first appeared, some bright spark figured that those enforcing the mark were going to hide 666 in a barcode and so paranoia ensued. Of course this was based on incorrect knowledge of the Word anyway as 666 is NOT the mark! The technology theory has just snowballed from there and has continued to gain momentum over time. Further speculation comes from the following verse but where does this verse state in any way that it will be microchips or technology? As you can see, it does not.

Revelation 13:17 “And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, OR the name of the beast, OR the number of his name.”

Technology cannot be the Mark of the Beast
It was assumed that if one cannot buy or sell then it must be controlled by some form of technology, and while Satan could use this to play a deceptive role, it is not 666 or the mark of the beast. Look at the above passage very closely. Note it says that you cannot buy or sell unless you have the MARK or the NAME or the NUMBER of his name. If the MARK was a computer chip and you did not have the MARK but you had the NAME or the NUMBER, you would still be able to buy and sell and yet you would not have the MARK. So what good would it be if the mark of the beast was technology? None whatsoever!

So technology being the mark of the beast is found to be impossible and does not fit the context of the passages on the mark or the entire Bible. So careful exegesis on what the Bible does say ends another unbiblical assumption. We must follow the Bible alone and strive to be like the Berean Christians who read the Word daily to see if what they were told was true. (Acts 17:11)

Note that the mark of the beast must be something that is a free will decision as one would not receive the full wrath of God for something that was forced upon you. Why would God pour out His most fiercest wrath upon you based on an implanted microchip anyway, which could be forced? Some claim because the mark of the beast is the mark of the devil but even if this were true, the free will issue remains the same. When we cover the origins of 666 later, you will be left with no doubt about it not being technology.
http://www.markbeast.org/index.html (http://www.markbeast.org/index.html)

With L.O.V.E. always.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: rswilley2011 on January 30, 2012, 03:58:32 PM
Some say we keep Sunday instead of Sabbath because Jesus raised from the dead on a Sunday.

Yes, but that's totally made up hundreds of years later and nowhere in the Bible does Jesus say we should observe Sunday to remember his resurrection. Actually, Jesus raised from the dead on Sunday, because he RESTED on the Sabbath, even AFTER the cross, which is another indication that the Sabbath was not done away with by Jesus´ death.

Actually, and not meaning to start anything, it DOES mention Sunday gathering (breaking bread aka communion/sacrament) in Acts 20:7

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"And on the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to depart the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight,"

People have been meeting on Sundays since the days of the apostles (shortly after Jesus ascended into Heaven). The reason people did that, was because Jesus has resurrected on a Sunday and they were doing it in honor of him.

But I do agree with you that the Sabbath day was NOT done away with, unlike what some believe.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: SimPattyK on January 30, 2012, 05:09:44 PM
(http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/2677/epass2005textde.jpg)

(http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/9387/antichip001.jpg)

(http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/1149/antichip002.jpg)

(http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/9375/antichip003.jpg)
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: MJonmind on January 30, 2012, 05:14:56 PM
MichaelsAngel
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I agree that it is impossible for us to not sin or at least near impossible. I believe it is more about loving God and accepting him into your heart. I just can't imagine that murderers can be saved and brought into heaven but someone who does not recognize the Sabbath isn't.

Ginafelicia
 
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That's the big difference. And let's not forget the worst sinner can be saved by God when least expected, like the criminal who was withMJ Jesus on the cross on Golgota.
Jono
 
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There is a BIGdifference between living your life out of LOVE (I am forgiven, grace) and FEAR (I got to keep his commandments or else…). If we live our lives out of LOVE we will keep his commandments:

I have grown up all my life in an passionate evangelical Christian home.  I know the difference in my heart between living under the fear of myself and others not quite pleasing God enough, and knowing that His love is unconditional as a true father's would be. Despite all the talk of "grace" and "free gift", there was always generous helpings of legalism and judgement of others, a certain arrogance of superiority for believing a certain way. "We must save those damned to hell, and tell the majority who are believing WRONG, the right way--our way." The words, "their blood be upon our heads", always  encourages this guilt over expending all of the focus on winning the lost, to save them from hell and God's wrath.  In all my years I would easily say that most Christians are the most judgmental people, though they claim to be loving--it is veiled.

It is because of all this that I chose to go deeper into the things of God, to find that there is indeed an over-arching bigger picture that God has in mind for humanity, and it is a mirror that shows us who we are.

Does anyone here remember seeing these puzzles where you stare at them with your eyes kinda focused a little more distant, and if you look at it right, another super-imposed picture jumps out at you almost 3D?  That's exactly the case with the Bible! IMO!  God has planned out the entire story of his dealings with mankind in the Old and New Testaments as a pre-ordained script. We can now see the results of legalism--impossible to obey completely and we are miserable. We can see the results of loving forgiveness/grace--we perhaps take too much liberty and grow wild/taking things for granted. HIStory is necessary to show us ourselves. As I searched I discovered these over-arching themes of the restitution of all things--that God would save ALL people--give them all faith, for we don't even know how to choose wisely.  We are all like sheep/foolish children.  But whether it's a chip or Sunday mark of the beast, no one (and I mean no one) will have everything figured out totally and may end up believing the wrong things at times.  And that's how I think God has set things up, similarly to this hoax.  MJ wants to keep us on the edge of our seats for this drama of all dramas.

Therefore, my view is that both the chip and Sunday law (or something still unknown) could be the mark intertwined.


About the Catholic church.  It was not started by supposedly Simon Peter, the disciple of Jesus, but a Samaritan (claimed to be Jews but were Gentiles) called Simon Magus mentioned in Acts.  Peter the first Pope is one of so many, many lies the world has accepted, and many more we are hardly aware of.

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The great false church system of Rome had its beginning in the day of the apostles of Christ. Unfortunately, this conflict did not go its separate way but mixed in to one religious system. This is why there are so many pagan ideas and doctrines in the Rome Catholic Church. Some crept in over time but many were there from the very beginning. The first conflict between early Christianity and false religion of paganism was recorded in the book of Acts, Chapter 8. This quarrel happened between a pagan high priest named Simon Magus and the apostles Peter and Philip. We first hear of Simon Magnus in Acts Chapter 8, verse 9-25
Verse 9:     But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used
Sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one:
10     To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God.
11     And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries.

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Notice the points Luke places clearly before us.
  • Simon was a Samaritan, not a Jew -- (Acts 8:9). Remember that the Bible tells us salvation was of the Jews -- not of the Samaritans (John 4:22).
  • Simon Magus greatly used demonistic powers to do miracles and wonders (Acts 8:9).
  • The whole population of Samaria (both small and great) gave heed to him (Verse 10). He was looked on as the greatest prophet -- all SamaritBELIEVEDIVED IN HIM!
  • The Samaritans WORSHIPPED him as "the Great One" -- a god. "This man is that power of God called Great [that is the Almighty]" (RSV. Verse 10).
  • Imagine it! They called him god in the flesh!
    Luke is also careful to inform us that Simon had become firmly established in Samaria as "the Great One" and had practiced his powers " for a long time" (Verse 11)
  • Luke wants us to understand that he nominally became a Christian ("Simon himself believed") and was baptized -- that is, he physically, outwardly "entered" the Christian Church (Verse 13).
  • Simon even recognized that Christ’s power was greater than his but wanted to be associated with that great name (Verse 13).
  • Simon, seeing the potential of the Christian religion waited until the authorities, Peter and John, came to Samaria and then offered to pay them money to OBTAIN AN APOSTLESHIP IN THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH (Verses 18-21).[/l][/l]
This is a fascinating study and this site goes into much more historical detail:  http://www.remnantofgod.org/pope1.htm (http://www.remnantofgod.org/pope1.htm)
[/list]
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: lilwendy on January 30, 2012, 05:20:58 PM
I think we are coming from this a little backwards.  Maybe a parable will help!  ;D

There once was a girl named Wendy.  She grew up with two loving parents.  They only wanted the best for her and she knew that.  She knew that they would die for her.  They had an amazing relationship. They asked her to clean her room every Sunday and she did.  She never asked to do it Saturday, she just did it because she loved them and they asked her to.

As Wendy got older, she started hanging out with friends that didn’t have that same kind of relationship that she had with her parents.  They used to tease Wendy because she actually listened to her parents and followed their rules.   “You’re so goody-goody” they would say.  “Just tell your parents you’re sleeping over at my house and we’ll go to the party” they would urge.

“But that would be lying!   I don’t want to lie to my parents” Wendy tried in vain to explain.
One day, Wendy started thinking of herself and her rights!   “Why do I have to listen to these rules?”  So she went to a party, got very drunk, went into a car with a young man who was also drinking that she didn’t know who offered to drive her home…. 

Well you can imagine what COULD have happened…. Rape…. Car accident…. By the grace of God none of that happened.

Bottomline, what I’m trying to show you here is it has not as much to do with the rules (if she should have gone to a party or not, if she should have cleaned her room on Sundays or if Saturdays would have been fine) but more to do with her relationship with her parents.  She followed the rules set out for her because of her love for her parents and her TRUST that they had her back.

One thing I am studying now, among 77 other things, is surrender and faithtrust.

Jesus died on the cross for me.  God loves me more than I can even comprehend.  He wants the best for me.  I don’t always understand His ways because trying to understand with the limited human mind that which is limitless is not possible.  For this I am eternally grateful and I love Him.

That’s why I do my best to surrender my life to Him.  Do I do this perfectly? Nope! :) I fail A LOT!!! However, He knows my heart and that I am doing my BEST to give Him my life to do with as He will. Beside I am not striving for perfection for no person is perfect, I am striving for excellence and I know God wants the same for me.

So I think this is more a question of do you TRUST God to steer you right?  Are you willing to SURRENDER your life to Him and His ways (without question)?

SURRENDER

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3qh2dJxUy8[/youtube]

TRUST

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhnRvb-M-P4[/youtube]

Love you guys…. Thanks for being on this journey with me!
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: bindupbrokenhearted on January 30, 2012, 05:25:32 PM
Quote
One of the most common claims against a microchip implant is that the Mark of the Beast is supposed to be "on" the hand or forehead and not "in" the hand or forehead. Do Revelation 13:16, Revelation 14:9-10, and Revelation 20:4 refer to a mark in the body or on the body?

The overwhelming majority of available translations opt for on. In fact, all modern versions use on. In contrast, all early versions from 1380 to 1833 side with in. That includes Wycliffe's Bible (1380), Tyndale's (1525), Coverdale's (1535), The Bishop's Bible (1568), The Geneva Bible (1587), the much beloved King James Version (1611), Wesley's Bible (1755), and finally Webster's Bible (1883). It wasn't until Darby's Bible in 1890 that doubt was cast against in.

It's not easy to discard the work of early Christian martyrs, or the 54 scholars that painstakingly translated the KJV by committee [1], as well as the work of the wordsmith Noah Webster, a man who single handedly wrote his own dictionary [2]. It would be foolish to write off such faith and dedication in favor of modern versions whose paid translators didn't have the foresight to see how "in" could actually make sense.

According to Strong's Concordance [3], both "in" and "on" are valid translations of the Greek word epi . Epi's many definitions include "into", "in a place", and "among", all of which perfectly describe the placement of modern day RFID implants such as Applied Digital Solution's Verichip. The Verichip is easily injected "into" the body, "in a place" of the hand or forehead, and remains "among" the flesh.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G1909&t=KJV

Strong's concordance: http://www.eliyah.com/cgi-bin/strongs.cgi?file=greeklexicon&isindex=epi



With love and peace  bearhug
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: SimPattyK on January 30, 2012, 05:26:43 PM
[...]
Souza: Great post about the Roman Catholic Church! I’m glad that people are finally discussing this subject. [...]
+1 !!! 8)  /bravo/


(http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/7260/vatican001.jpg)

(http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/2996/33433146992775886715538.jpg)

(http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/3914/dracosiriussymbols1024x.jpg)

(http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/2497/popedevilsigns.jpg)
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: lilwendy on January 30, 2012, 05:37:32 PM
@SimPattyK  You are amazing!  I am speechless!  Thank you for all the work you put into your posts!
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: melody on January 30, 2012, 05:41:20 PM
edit: now that I think about it:
The Old Testament tells us to fear God
The New Testament tells us to love God




I hate to be a nitpick, but for truth's sake I'll have to be: the old testament tells us to love him too.


Quote
Deuteronomy 10:12-13 (NIV)

12 And now, Israel, what does the LORD your God ask of you but to fear the LORD your God, to walk in obedience to him, to love him, to serve the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, 13 and to observe the LORD’s commands and decrees that I am giving you today for your own good?

MJonmind, that's a mighty interesting topic. I'm so going to dig into this.  :geek:

I appreciate all the different perspectives being shared, definitely gives me something to think about.


Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: SimPattyK on January 30, 2012, 05:45:23 PM
 
@SimPattyK  You are amazing!  I am speechless!  Thank you for all the work you put into your posts!
bearhug
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: bindupbrokenhearted on January 30, 2012, 05:47:42 PM
From lilwendy:

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Bottomline, what I’m trying to show you here is it has not as much to do with the rules (if she should have gone to a party or not, if she should have cleaned her room on Sundays or if Saturdays would have been fine) but more to do with her relationship with her parents.  She followed the rules set out for her because of her love for her parents and her TRUST that they had her back.

Absolutely!  Bingo!


From Jono:

Quote
And how do we keep the 10 commandments? Through FAITH! Remember, it is impossible for man to keep the meaning of the 10 commandments -> to be as perfect as God (please refer to my last posts).

Absolutely!  That is why the Gospel is literally 'good news'!  Because we are saved through Christ's righteousness through our faith and trust in Him.  Not by anything we do, as Paul says to the Romans:

Quote
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
http://bible.cc/romans/3-10.htm

But...literally, The Good News is Jesus saved us by fulfilling the Law Himself and dying OUR DEATH as a Sacrifice for us:

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But God commends his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
http://bible.cc/romans/5-8.htm

And we are saved by faith not by works:

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For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--
http://bible.cc/ephesians/2-8.htm

Therefore, the whole idea about the MoB being keeping a Saturday Sabbath would be that I need to be saved by faith PLUS keeping the Sabbath, which is not true.  I am saved by GRACE alone--a gift from God--THE GOOD NEWS.

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For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 29Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one
Romans 3:28-30

And lilwendy had it right...some want to keep a Saturday Sabbath due to love for God, which is great.  We should do it out of love for God, but not out of legalism.  http://carm.org/are-we-saved-faith-alone-or-do-we-need-works-too

Also, anyone interested should read about the Sabbath actually being the 7th millenium on earth, which is the Millenial Kingdom.  As it was said, the Law is a foreshadowing of things to come: 

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For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Hebrews 10:1-4

With love  bearhug
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: MJonmind on January 30, 2012, 06:04:07 PM
In every good story there must be a protagonist or the villain, as well as the hero and his helpers who save the day.  It's all about good versus evil, the theme of almost all books and movies. Sex is a major component, or driving factor in this story.


SimPattyK, yes, the telling the priests that they must remain celibate, is the setting up for sexual deviancy and sins. God has created us for pro-creation--we are hard-wired.


Quote
The third of Newton's laws of motion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton%27s_laws_of_motion) of classical mechanics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_mechanics) states that forces (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force) always occur in pairs. Every action is accompanied by a reaction of equal magnitude but opposite direction. This principle is commonly known in the Latin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin) language as actio et reactio. The attribution of which of the two forces is action or reaction is arbitrary. Each of the two forces can be considered the action, the other force is its associated reaction.


Every stone we throw in the pond creates ripples that move to the edges, and affect everything in their vicinity.


Michaelangelo after 1508, in the Sistine Chapel at the Vatican. What really was the "fruit"?


(http://www.bible-people.info/Copy_of_Michelangelo_Fall_from_Grace_and_Expulsion_from_Paradise.jpg)
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: lilwendy on January 30, 2012, 06:05:28 PM
For the record, based on studies I have done, I believe God has asked us to keep Friday sunset to Saturday sunset as the true Sabbath and that's what I keep out of love for Him.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: paula-c on January 30, 2012, 06:33:17 PM
(http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/2677/epass2005textde.jpg)

(http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/9387/antichip001.jpg)

(http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/1149/antichip002.jpg)

(http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/9375/antichip003.jpg)



..And already are also present in the credit and debit cards, in fact here is mandatory to have those cards with chip, ( banks say they are safer) suspicious// the other cards have stopped function the December 31.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on January 30, 2012, 06:50:14 PM
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If you take the side of the true ark, then you are on Michael’s side of the Armageddon battle; if you chose to go against the true ark—or even if you take a position of neutral indifference—then you are on Lucifer’s side of Armageddon (see Matthew 12:30; Luke 11:23). Nobody will be drafted to fight for the truth, it’s a volunteer army; but those who don’t voluntarily enlist on the side of truth, will be on the other side of the battle, whether they intend to or not. There will be only two sides. “If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.”

For those who choose Michael’s side, Michael Himself has made this amazing promise, “To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne …” (Revelation 3:21; see 22:1-5; 1 Samuel 2:7,8; Matthew 25:31; 20:21-23; Mark 10:37-40). Yes, Lucifer got kicked out of heaven for demanding a seat upon God’s throne; he failed the test of faith. But for those who pass the test of faith, Jesus will give them the very same thing which Lucifer demanded, and yet never received—the privilege to sit on God’s throne! This is not a message of fear, it’s a message of faith, a faith that will conquer Lucifer and all who take sides with him. This is what the final battle is all about; the battle where faith and only faith will win the victory and prize: to sit with God on His throne—this is the battle, the final battle, the battle of Armageddon!!!!!!!

The Bottom Line is about chosing who to worship. Which side are you on?

http://www.endtimes-bibleprophecy.com/page19.htm
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Revelation 14:9-11 ...'And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.'

The World has a choice to make, obey God or follow Satan

Now, the first clue we have to the mark of the beast is found in the above verses in Revelation 14, and the very next verse after them ... Revelation 14:12 ...'Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.' ... So why do the saints not receive the mark of the beast? Because they keep the Commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. So here we can see that it is to do with God's law and following in Jesus footsteps. Notice one important thing, it doesn't say that the saints have faith IN Jesus, but they keep the faith OF Jesus, ie. they follow Him. Many Christians believe that the law of God has been done away with. Well, God disagrees with them, because He says that the only way NOT to receive the mark of the beast is to keep His Law.

Revelation 13:16 ...'And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads.' ... So those who get the mark of the beast, have it in their hand or forehead. That's interesting, because there are another group of people who receive a mark in their foreheads ... Revelation 14:1 ...'And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.' ... So in Revelation 13:16, we have the one group of people with the mark of the beast, and then the very next verse in Revelation 14:1, we have the other group of people with God's Name written in their foreheads. These two groups of people are the one's at the end time before Jesus Christ returns at the second coming. They are the saved (with God's Name) and the lost (with the mark of the beast). But will there be two groups of people at the end, walking around with actual physical stamps on their heads or hands? Or are these 'spiritual' marks?

The mark of the beast is to do with breaking God's Law and choosing to obey man over God. But is the mark of the beast specifically to do with the Sabbath Commandment? Take a look at one of the three angels messages ... Revelation 14:6-7 ...'And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.' ... This is the end time call to worship God who created heaven and earth. Look at the words that are being used, these are taken from the Sabbath Commandment ... Exodus 20:11 ...'For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.' ... This issue of the mark of the beast and the seal of God is all to do with worship. Will we choose to worship God who created the heavens and the earth, and who set a special day aside for us to spend with Him? Or will we choose to obey man, who changed the law of God, and say NO! Keep my day instead!

PLEASE REMEMBER! In Revelation 14:12 it confirms that those who don't receive the mark of the beast, are the ones who are keeping the Commandments of God and follow in Jesus' footsteps. Those who accept the gospel message, follow Jesus Christ, obey God and keep His Commandments will not receive the mark of the beast.

Now remember where the mark of the beast is? In the hand or forehead? ... Exodus 20:8 ...'Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.' ... Where do we remember? In our foreheads (minds) ... Exodus 20:9-10 ...'Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work.' ... With what do we work? Our hands. Do you see this important truth? Those who receive the mark of the beast will go against God and His law. The Sabbath Commandment specifically deals with who we worship. Will you obey God and keep His Commandment, or will you obey the Roman Catholic Church and keep her commands?

So many people are waiting for a physical mark to come along, and are ignoring the Bible truth. If the mark of the beast was an actual physical mark, then it would be easy to spot. But take a look at the following verse ... Revelation 19:20 ...'And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.' ... Those who received the mark of the beast were DECEIVED! The whole point about being deceived is that you don't know you were deceived. So the true mark of the beast is going to involve subtle deception, just like the Sabbath to Sunday issue. Most of the Christian world keep Sunday as Sabbath thinking it's ok to change God's Law. This is the subtle deception that the Papal Church of Rome have brought in. Satan doesn't want you to obey God, he wants you to obey him, and through the Roman Catholic Church he is doing just that.

The number of the beast is 666. What is God's number? ... Genesis 2:2-3 ...'And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.' ... 777!

During the very end time, when the mark of the beast is enforced by law around the world, after each person has chosen to accept and obey God, or accept and obey the Roman Catholic Church. God will then look into the hearts of everyone and consider each person to either have His name (seal) in their foreheads or the mark of the beast. Those who don't believe in Rome's enforced law, but go along with it because of economic pressure (buying and selling, Rev. 13), they will receive the mark of the beast in their right hand. Who will you choose to obey and worship?


http://www.scribd.com/doc/13224723/Enforced-Sunday-Law-Coming-Soon-To-America-by-Vance-Ferrell This book goes into detail and history of the Sunday Law and the Papacy.

Quote
Revelation 13:17 “And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, OR the name of the beast, OR the number of his name.”
See the 3 different things mentioned in this scripture? ^^1. Mark 2. Name 3. Number.

MJonmind-Perhaps you assumed the mark of the beast was only about the sunday law but for me I had read many different opinions regarding the subject of the mark of the beast. I kept trying to hint towards other things being involved in this issue. I had already read the info/opinions on different websites regarding the RFID chip. I didn't write everything I had read. For example The Roman Catholic Church being considered The Beast System. Also many other members posted the info that I had learned about so no need for me to repeat that.

BeTheChange-I had also found that website and read through that one. When I posted references I just chose the ones that for me were the easiest at the time to understand. I am glad you took the time to research for your own understanding.

WhiteNight-You are welcome. I will be watching your videos. There is a whole pandoras box to be opened regarding the mark of the beast and yes the Vatican/Roman Catholic Church has everything to do with the mark of the beast.

Here is another hint. I do not feel comfortable saying outright what I am talking about because it can be considered very scary.

Quote
Some of the stuff I found out about within the last few days are in scripture in revelation 20:4-6, there is alot of info on the internet and youtube regarding the scripture being fulfilled.

P.S. I know I said I was done commenting on this subject but I just can't help myself sometimes...
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: paula-c on January 30, 2012, 07:14:14 PM
Then, if you save the Sunday would be preparing to receive the mark of the Beast, and   save the Sunday does not correspond to the true Christianity, because it is the mark of the Vatican.

(http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/2497/popedevilsigns.jpg)
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: ~Souza~ on January 30, 2012, 07:44:50 PM
@jono

I have started my Bible with the EOW, because that is the subject most relevant at the moment and while looking into that, and watching videos, I noticed that the minority thought the Sunday law would be the mark of the beast. Since I believe that the minority is usually right, I looked further into that with common sense and the Bible as source, and to me it is clear as day that the Sabbath will be very important in the future and that it is the most forgotten and dismissed commandment of the ten, even though God said REMEMBER it. I am working out my complete study now but that might take a while because I have done studies with people who do NOT believe the Sabbath should still be kept and I want to go into all their comments. One thing I noticed is that they who do not think the Sabbath should still be kept, usually give vague answers or no answer at all, while those who do believe it should still be kept, have amazing scriptural evidence and are able to answer to all the excuses from the ones that don't believe. So I will refrain from commentening on the Sabbath issue until I have everything ready and I will show you why I (and I am not an SDA at all, had never heard of them even before I started to study this) I believe that the Sabbath is not something that should be dismissed.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: bindupbrokenhearted on January 30, 2012, 07:46:57 PM
Quote
If you take the side of the true ark, then you are on Michael’s side of the Armageddon battle; if you chose to go against the true ark—or even if you take a position of neutral indifference—then you are on Lucifer’s side of Armageddon (see Matthew 12:30; Luke 11:23). Nobody will be drafted to fight for the truth, it’s a volunteer army; but those who don’t voluntarily enlist on the side of truth, will be on the other side of the battle, whether they intend to or not. There will be only two sides. “If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.”

For those who choose Michael’s side, Michael Himself has made this amazing promise, “To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne …” (Revelation 3:21; see 22:1-5; 1 Samuel 2:7,8; Matthew 25:31; 20:21-23; Mark 10:37-40). Yes, Lucifer got kicked out of heaven for demanding a seat upon God’s throne; he failed the test of faith. But for those who pass the test of faith, Jesus will give them the very same thing which Lucifer demanded, and yet never received—the privilege to sit on God’s throne! This is not a message of fear, it’s a message of faith, a faith that will conquer Lucifer and all who take sides with him. This is what the final battle is all about; the battle where faith and only faith will win the victory and prize: to sit with God on His throne—this is the battle, the final battle, the battle of Armageddon!!!!!!!

The Bottom Line is about chosing who to worship. Which side are you on?

http://www.endtimes-bibleprophecy.com/page19.htm
Quote
Revelation 14:9-11 ...'And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.'

The World has a choice to make, obey God or follow Satan

Now, the first clue we have to the mark of the beast is found in the above verses in Revelation 14, and the very next verse after them ... Revelation 14:12 ...'Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.' ... So why do the saints not receive the mark of the beast? Because they keep the Commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. So here we can see that it is to do with God's law and following in Jesus footsteps. Notice one important thing, it doesn't say that the saints have faith IN Jesus, but they keep the faith OF Jesus, ie. they follow Him. Many Christians believe that the law of God has been done away with. Well, God disagrees with them, because He says that the only way NOT to receive the mark of the beast is to keep His Law.

Revelation 13:16 ...'And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads.' ... So those who get the mark of the beast, have it in their hand or forehead. That's interesting, because there are another group of people who receive a mark in their foreheads ... Revelation 14:1 ...'And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.' ... So in Revelation 13:16, we have the one group of people with the mark of the beast, and then the very next verse in Revelation 14:1, we have the other group of people with God's Name written in their foreheads. These two groups of people are the one's at the end time before Jesus Christ returns at the second coming. They are the saved (with God's Name) and the lost (with the mark of the beast). But will there be two groups of people at the end, walking around with actual physical stamps on their heads or hands? Or are these 'spiritual' marks?

The mark of the beast is to do with breaking God's Law and choosing to obey man over God. But is the mark of the beast specifically to do with the Sabbath Commandment? Take a look at one of the three angels messages ... Revelation 14:6-7 ...'And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.' ... This is the end time call to worship God who created heaven and earth. Look at the words that are being used, these are taken from the Sabbath Commandment ... Exodus 20:11 ...'For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.' ... This issue of the mark of the beast and the seal of God is all to do with worship. Will we choose to worship God who created the heavens and the earth, and who set a special day aside for us to spend with Him? Or will we choose to obey man, who changed the law of God, and say NO! Keep my day instead!

PLEASE REMEMBER! In Revelation 14:12 it confirms that those who don't receive the mark of the beast, are the ones who are keeping the Commandments of God and follow in Jesus' footsteps. Those who accept the gospel message, follow Jesus Christ, obey God and keep His Commandments will not receive the mark of the beast.

Now remember where the mark of the beast is? In the hand or forehead? ... Exodus 20:8 ...'Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.' ... Where do we remember? In our foreheads (minds) ... Exodus 20:9-10 ...'Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work.' ... With what do we work? Our hands. Do you see this important truth? Those who receive the mark of the beast will go against God and His law. The Sabbath Commandment specifically deals with who we worship. Will you obey God and keep His Commandment, or will you obey the Roman Catholic Church and keep her commands?

So many people are waiting for a physical mark to come along, and are ignoring the Bible truth. If the mark of the beast was an actual physical mark, then it would be easy to spot. But take a look at the following verse ... Revelation 19:20 ...'And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.' ... Those who received the mark of the beast were DECEIVED! The whole point about being deceived is that you don't know you were deceived. So the true mark of the beast is going to involve subtle deception, just like the Sabbath to Sunday issue. Most of the Christian world keep Sunday as Sabbath thinking it's ok to change God's Law. This is the subtle deception that the Papal Church of Rome have brought in. Satan doesn't want you to obey God, he wants you to obey him, and through the Roman Catholic Church he is doing just that.

The number of the beast is 666. What is God's number? ... Genesis 2:2-3 ...'And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.' ... 777!

During the very end time, when the mark of the beast is enforced by law around the world, after each person has chosen to accept and obey God, or accept and obey the Roman Catholic Church. God will then look into the hearts of everyone and consider each person to either have His name (seal) in their foreheads or the mark of the beast. Those who don't believe in Rome's enforced law, but go along with it because of economic pressure (buying and selling, Rev. 13), they will receive the mark of the beast in their right hand. Who will you choose to obey and worship?


http://www.scribd.com/doc/13224723/Enforced-Sunday-Law-Coming-Soon-To-America-by-Vance-Ferrell This book goes into detail and history of the Sunday Law and the Papacy.

Quote
Revelation 13:17 “And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, OR the name of the beast, OR the number of his name.”
See the 3 different things mentioned in this scripture? ^^1. Mark 2. Name 3. Number.

MJonmind-Perhaps you assumed the mark of the beast was only about the sunday law but for me I had read many different opinions regarding the subject of the mark of the beast. I kept trying to hint towards other things being involved in this issue. I had already read the info/opinions on different websites regarding the RFID chip. I didn't write everything I had read. For example The Roman Catholic Church being considered The Beast System. Also many other members posted the info that I had learned about so no need for me to repeat that.

BeTheChange-I had also found that website and read through that one. When I posted references I just chose the ones that for me were the easiest at the time to understand. I am glad you took the time to research for your own understanding.

WhiteNight-You are welcome. I will be watching your videos. There is a whole pandoras box to be opened regarding the mark of the beast and yes the Vatican/Roman Catholic Church has everything to do with the mark of the beast.

Here is another hint. I do not feel comfortable saying outright what I am talking about because it can be considered very scary.

Quote
Some of the stuff I found out about within the last few days are in scripture in revelation 20:4-6, there is alot of info on the internet and youtube regarding the scripture being fulfilled.

P.S. I know I said I was done commenting on this subject but I just can't help myself sometimes...

Hi Imconvinced!

I am confused.  I am just not sure how can keeping a Saturday Sabbath have anything to do with finances since the MoB is absolutely intimately tied to finances: Revelation 13 16

What I find interesting is if you look at what 'TPTB' (I put them into quotations because they don't really have power, only God does) but anyways, what they want to do is to microchip the population and having these microchips intimately tied to finances, where only people who have an active one being able to buy and sell.  See Aaron Russo's interview about this here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1263677258215075609

Which might fit very well with the description of the MoB in Revelation

I do believe (and have Scriptural support) that God's true children will not be deceived.  Jesus said that no one has the ability to snatch any of His children out of His hand so we need not be afraid:
Quote
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
http://bible.cc/john/10-28.htm

And God's true children cannot be deceived away from Salvation which goes along with the passage above:
Quote
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; so that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
http://bible.cc/matthew/24-24.htm

So we are not to be afraid.  We are in Christ, our Tabernacle, our Shelter, our great Shepard!  With love  http://bible.cc/1_john/4-18.htm

PS: and I know we might end up disagreeing on this, so that's okay bearhug

Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: paula-c on January 30, 2012, 08:16:50 PM
I am going to read a study of the sabbath day tonight, tomorrow commented
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on January 30, 2012, 08:56:01 PM
@bindupbrokenhearted-

Here is where your understanding is flawed. The mark of the beast law DOES NOT=keeping the Sabbath on the right day=Saturday. What the mark of the beast law is about is people who already are worshipping on the wrong day=Sunday. The mark of the beast law is about FORCING people to worship on the wrong day=Sunday. The right day for Sabbath keeping is Saturday=God's law. Worshipping on Sunday=Man's law. You aren't the only one who keeps making this mistake in thinking that IF people worship the Sabbath (on the right day)=mark of the beast.

I hope this makes it clear for you what the info I am posting is really saying. I have said more than once that what I am posting is for the purpose of it being evidence for others to study and then MAKE up their OWN minds. I am not saying that what I am posting is the absolute right way and others way is wrong.

Also everyone who keeps going on about salvation and assuming I or anyone else who talks about the Sabbath has anything to do with each other. I never wrote about having to keep the Sabbath, being under legalistic law, having to do works to be saved, etc. The ones who are saying this have assumed in their own minds that is what we are saying. We aren't even saying anything about faith, salvation, or following the 10 commandments in order to be saved.

If someone chooses to keep the Sabbath on the correct day then that is their spiritual choice. I never said IF you don't keep the correct Sabbath day that you won't be saved. What would be wrong with keeping the Sabbath because someone wants to do it and they are not being forced to do it? Keeping the correct Sabbath day is NOT considered a work anyways. Works=doing charity work and anything else people do thinking that will be enough for God to be impressed.

I am very aware of what the meaning of being saved equals.

Once someone chooses to follow Jesus it doesn't mean that you don't have to at LEAST TRY to be more like Jesus. As much as humanly possible every day we should try to turn away from sinful behavior.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Dontwalkaway on January 30, 2012, 09:40:38 PM
I have a bad feeling that the mark of the beast law will be about the RFID chip.  I think people will protest it or at least I'm hoping they will.   I think Bec has the right idea about getting ready to camp out in the woods if need be.  What country do you live in Bec ?

SimPattyK, those pictures of the Vatican are just so creepy !!!  The Vatican is just so corrupt.  People have to start realizing I hope.  What's Draco verse Sirius ?  The dragon/lizard people vs the Sirians ?????? 

Love
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: bindupbrokenhearted on January 30, 2012, 10:13:43 PM
@bindupbrokenhearted-

Here is where your understanding is flawed. The mark of the beast law DOES NOT=keeping the Sabbath on the right day=Saturday. What the mark of the beast law is about is people who already are worshipping on the wrong day=Sunday. The mark of the beast law is about FORCING people to worship on the wrong day=Sunday. The right day for Sabbath keeping is Saturday=God's law. Worshipping on Sunday=Man's law. You aren't the only one who keeps making this mistake in thinking that IF people worship the Sabbath (on the right day)=mark of the beast.

I hope this makes it clear for you what the info I am posting is really saying. I have said more than once that what I am posting is for the purpose of it being evidence for others to study and then MAKE up their OWN minds. I am not saying that what I am posting is the absolute right way and others way is wrong.

Also everyone who keeps going on about salvation and assuming I or anyone else who talks about the Sabbath has anything to do with each other. I never wrote about having to keep the Sabbath, being under legalistic law, having to do works to be saved, etc. The ones who are saying this have assumed in their own minds that is what we are saying. We aren't even saying anything about faith, salvation, or following the 10 commandments in order to be saved.

If someone chooses to keep the Sabbath on the correct day then that is their spiritual choice. I never said IF you don't keep the correct Sabbath day that you won't be saved. What would be wrong with keeping the Sabbath because someone wants to do it and they are not being forced to do it? Keeping the correct Sabbath day is NOT considered a work anyways. Works=doing charity work and anything else people do thinking that will be enough for God to be impressed.

I am very aware of what the meaning of being saved equals.

Once someone chooses to follow Jesus it doesn't mean that you don't have to at LEAST TRY to be more like Jesus. As much as humanly possible every day we should try to turn away from sinful behavior.


Hi Imconvinced:

No, I understood that MoB 'law' was Sunday worship.  I see my post wasn't clear before, so I apologize for that. 

Honestly, this whole idea of the MoB law thing intrigued me many months ago, when I found out that SD Adventists believe this, so I did my own study on it back then.  And...so far I don't agree with them mostly because I have trouble linking this MoB 'law' with finances in comparison to say micro chipping the population which is clearly linked to finances and is actually in the global elite agendas.  I think this study is incredibly important because I think Satan will try to deceive many into thinking certain things are actually the MoB, when the people actually end up taking the true MoB anyways.  So, a good Bible study is important on this topic, and I am open to any possibilities on this, since I am not omniscient, only God is and therefore He only knows all truths.  But the truth will come out in the end, and God is in control, so I have nothing to worry about nor fear.  I pray for people not to be deceived, regardless of what the MoB ends up to be. 

One thing that I said previously is that many mainstream Christians believe that the MoB is tied to some sort of electronic mind control (and I do believe this too), which forces those taking the electronic mind control to end up bowing down to the Beast System as a slave, similar to MK ultra.  That is what bothers me, but again, I can't be afraid.  The global elite have this in their plans too, from what I have heard.  Whether this is the MoB remains to be seen.

As far as Sunday worship: I still have the same question: how do you see Sunday worship being tied to finances?

FYI: I was talking about salvation and legalism since taking the MoB is synonymous with losing any ability for God's salvation according to mainstream Christianity.  It also implies that Christians today who worship on Sunday are in some form of trouble in their Salvation (I don't believe this, as Jesus fulfilled the law for us during His 33 years on Earth AND died our death so He was a Sacrifice for us: which is all that is needed for our salvation).  I really want to write more on this, but I have to get some things done so maybe I can actually get some sleep tonight.  I do have Scriptural evidence for this, but need to continue this tomorrow.  I hope you understand.

Maybe I will write (or post) something regarding a Bible study on this, but right now I need to get some things done tonight and will hopefully write more (or find a good Bible study on this) later.

With love bearhug

Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: bindupbrokenhearted on January 30, 2012, 10:16:35 PM
I have a bad feeling that the mark of the beast law will be about the RFID chip.  I think people will protest it or at least I'm hoping they will.   I think Bec has the right idea about getting ready to camp out in the woods if need be.  What country do you live in Bec ?

SimPattyK, those pictures of the Vatican are just so creepy !!!  The Vatican is just so corrupt.  People have to start realizing I hope.  What's Draco verse Sirius ?  The dragon/lizard people vs the Sirians ?????? 

Love

I would rather die than be chipped.  Regardless of if it is the true MoB or not.  I won't.

With love and peace
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: RK on January 31, 2012, 12:43:05 AM
I've been thinking about the well known 'hoax quotes' like 'the truth will prevail' and 'it's all going to come out.' What exactly is going to come out in to the open. Could it be the exposing of history for the subtle lies that have crept in to all we have taken as truth. Even in the areas of personal faiths?
The whole sabbath and sunday study has made me look into other areas and one that sticks out to me is the hebrew Yeshua vs the greek Jesus.
http://www.hebrewyeshua.com/hebrew_yeshua_book.html (http://www.hebrewyeshua.com/hebrew_yeshua_book.html)
I think this is just the start of many such misconceptions being righted.
Prior to this hoax, I and probably many others had a preconcieived idea of what Michael was like. In truth, we saw one side of him. His public persona. A true side no doubt, but only a part of the whole. Planning this hoax is proof that there is way more to Michael than I ever thought about and knew. Could this be a parallel to the Yeshua/Jesus debate as well? And I just want to say thankyou to everyone for the privlege of being allowed to think aloud here.

Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on January 31, 2012, 02:04:37 AM
Quote
One thing that I said previously is that many mainstream Christians believe that the MoB is tied to some sort of electronic mind control (and I do believe this too), which forces those taking the electronic mind control to end up bowing down to the Beast System as a slave, similar to MK ultra. That is what bothers me, but again, I can't be afraid. The global elite have this in their plans too, from what I have heard. Whether this is the MoB remains to be seen.

As far as Sunday worship: I still have the same question: how do you see Sunday worship being tied to finances?

FYI: I was talking about salvation and legalism since taking the MoB is synonymous with losing any ability for God's salvation according to mainstream Christianity. It also implies that Christians today who worship on Sunday are in some form of trouble in their Salvation (I don't believe this, as Jesus fulfilled the law for us during His 33 years on Earth AND died our death so He was a Sacrifice for us: which is all that is needed for our salvation). I really want to write more on this, but I have to get some things done so maybe I can actually get some sleep tonight. I do have Scriptural evidence for this, but need to continue this tomorrow. I hope you understand.
@bindupbrokenhearted-

Well as far as I am concerned I am not one to follow mainstream christianity so I have no clue what they believe regarding mind control and it being tied to the MoB. Also the FYI info you stated is something that I am not familiar with either. I have no denomination/religious name. I am not taking info from one group over the other as it being the truth or not. What I have done is take info that I have found on these subjects and posted it regardless of the Religion someone is. I am very familiar with the elite's plan and I see where you are coming from regarding the RFID chip. I have done alot of research regarding the TPTB/NWO. In my first post that you quoted I did mention the RFID chip. I also said there are 3 different things in the scripture regarding the MoB.
Quote

Revelation 13:17 “And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, OR the name of the beast, OR the number of his name.”

See the 3 different things mentioned in this scripture? ^^1. Mark 2. Name 3. Number.
This subject is not so easy to understand because it deals with a number of things in order to grasp it. TPTB/NWO are the source with which Satan will try/and has been using to get everyone to bow down to him. It is not going to be obvious that people are actually pledging their allegiance to Satan. It is not like he will appear in front of us and say "Hi I am Satan" having devil horns holding a pitchfork. The things he will/has done is very subtle. The same subtleness that TPTB/NWO have been doing to us over the entire course of our lives. There is an easing into accepting the ideas. A little here and a little there and before we know it we accept the B.S. they are selling. Below I am adding some links to websites that if you study them you will have more answers than questions. I can not answer everything because I don't know it all either.

http://www.signs-of-end-times.com
Quote
Bible End Time Sign - ABILITY TO ENFORCE THE MARK

Revelation 13:17 ...'And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, of the name of the beast, or the number of his name.'

Now this is an end time sign that most people miss! Have a think about it ... What needs to happen in order for the "beast system" to stop people from buying and selling if they refuse the mark? We need to have a worldwide financial system whereby everything bought and sold is through electronic means, not cash.

Has there been any time in history where this could happen? No. Are WE living in a day where this could happen? Most certainly, yes! And the powers of this world are now trying to make cash obsolete, and actively pushing pure electronic forms of payment, like "PayPal" and "Google Wallet" for instance. We have the techonology to do this now, which in times past wasn't possible. And look at the financial turmoil around the world today. This will help in bringing in a "unified" currency to help make it possible to enforce the mark of the beast. Technology isn't the mark, but technology is needed for proper enforcement of it. This is a SURE sign of the end times!


http://www.thebible-tencommandments.com/gods-law-end-times-bible-prophecy.html
http://www.thebible-tencommandments.com/under-grace-not-law.html
http://www.endtimes-bibleprophecy.com/page20.htm
http://www.signs-of-end-times.com/the-last-days-end-of-world-signs.html
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: MJonmind on January 31, 2012, 02:42:29 AM
I finally found the type of 3D puzzle I was referring to before in my other post.    http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=22042.msg387391#msg387391 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=22042.msg387391#msg387391)


How many of you can see the 3D dinosaur in the middle?  You could enlarge it on your screen, then stare at it close up, and then slowly back away, letting your eyes go slightly out of focus.  That's what I'm saying about the Bible's hidden bigger picture.  Here's more hidden pictures at  http://www.vision3d.com/sghidden.html (http://www.vision3d.com/sghidden.html)



(http://www.vision3d.com/sghidden/images_sghidden/dino.jpeg)




I've been thinking about the well known 'hoax quotes' like 'the truth will prevail' and 'it's all going to come out.' What exactly is going to come out in to the open. Could it be the exposing of history for the subtle lies that have crept in to all we have taken as truth. Even in the areas of personal faiths?
The whole sabbath and sunday study has made me look into other areas and one that sticks out to me is the hebrew Yeshua vs the greek Jesus.
http://www.hebrewyeshua.com/hebrew_yeshua_book.html (http://www.hebrewyeshua.com/hebrew_yeshua_book.html)
I think this is just the start of many such misconceptions being righted.
Prior to this hoax, I and probably many others had a preconcieived idea of what Michael was like. In truth, we saw one side of him. His public persona. A true side no doubt, but only a part of the whole. Planning this hoax is proof that there is way more to Michael than I ever thought about and knew. Could this be a parallel to the Yeshua/Jesus debate as well? And I just want to say thankyou to everyone for the privlege of being allowed to think aloud here.




It's the coming of the internet that has enabled the truth to come out, about MJ, about the Bible, about history and more.  Remember Daniel said that in the end times, that, "knowledge will increase."    On the other topic you brought up, there's more than one perspective on the name of 'Jesus' as well.  (Even the study on the name of 'God' is vast with more misconceptions.)  I don't think TS/The Sign are dealing with more than a few misconceptions at a time in their studies. Bring on the next study TS!!


http://www.hebrewisraelites.org/physicalapp.htm (http://www.hebrewisraelites.org/physicalapp.htm)   Here they call him Yahshuah, which is what I believe personally.


(http://www.hebrewisraelites.org/images/blkjesusgmerge.jpg)
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: jono on January 31, 2012, 04:08:12 AM
@Souza

Thank you for your answer!

I don't think that the concept of the Sabbath is something that should be totally dismissed either.
I believe that, just as Jesus said; “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.” – Mark 2:26-28

But as I mentioned in my other posts, I just don’t believe that this is a question of salvation (eph 2:8-9, Rom 3:21-31, 10:4,9, Acts 16:31, John 3:16 etc).

Quote
Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. – Col 2:16-17

Quote
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin. – Rom 3:20

Questions you should consider when doing your bible study:

-What will man gain from keeping the Sabbath? We know it is not salvation…
-Should man keep the Sabbath to appease God or because it is good for her?
-What type of Sabbath are we supposed to keep? Is it a strict Jewish Sabbath (http://www.teshuvah.com/articles/shabbat/sabbath1.htm) or some other Sabbath?

I am looking forward to read the conclusion of your studies later! ::P (is it not possible to get a regular smiley anymore?? :) lol)

PS. If the majority is usually wrong, then maybe salvation is not gained through faith in Jesus (John 3:16) either after all? DS.


Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Suzy7 on January 31, 2012, 04:42:12 AM
 Souza, with respect, everyone who has posted about us no longer needing to observe sabbath, have done so using Biblical evidence. Among our long posts I don't think a vague answer was ever given. Also, all throughout the New Testament, there are many verses that show us we are no longer bound to the Old Covenant. That is why I keep mentioning the Jews vs. Christians beliefs as the ultimate example. Christians believe in the Bible, which includes the New Testament that tells us sabbath has been done away with. Jesus fulfilled that prophecy.

  Many of us here have studied the Bible our whole lives and continue to do so; therefore I think we also have a good understanding of it. But I repect anyone and everyone who believes they must keep sabbath in order to have a righteous stand with God. But just know that God no longer requires that of you, but instead faith in him and a good heart.

 Melody, he in fact was referring to Jews, hence "synagogue". What those verses mean, is he was illustrating that they weren't *true Jews*, as he was. They constantly attacked his character and eventually killed him. I do believe in the rest of your post about the true vs. "fake" Jews.

Edit: Jono great questions one should ask themselves regarding sabbath and salvation.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: jono on January 31, 2012, 04:43:55 AM
I have grown up all my life in an passionate evangelical Christian home.  I know the difference in my heart between living under the fear of myself and others not quite pleasing God enough, and knowing that His love is unconditional as a true father's would be. Despite all the talk of "grace" and "free gift", there was always generous helpings of legalism and judgement of others, a certain arrogance of superiority for believing a certain way. "We must save those damned to hell, and tell the majority who are believing WRONG, the right way--our way." The words, "their blood be upon our heads", always  encourages this guilt over expending all of the focus on winning the lost, to save them from hell and God's wrath.  In all my years I would easily say that most Christians are the most judgmental people, though they claim to be loving--it is veiled.

It is because of all this that I chose to go deeper into the things of God, to find that there is indeed an over-arching bigger picture that God has in mind for humanity, and it is a mirror that shows us who we are.

Does anyone here remember seeing these puzzles where you stare at them with your eyes kinda focused a little more distant, and if you look at it right, another super-imposed picture jumps out at you almost 3D?  That's exactly the case with the Bible! IMO!  God has planned out the entire story of his dealings with mankind in the Old and New Testaments as a pre-ordained script. We can now see the results of legalism--impossible to obey completely and we are miserable. We can see the results of loving forgiveness/grace--we perhaps take too much liberty and grow wild/taking things for granted. HIStory is necessary to show us ourselves. As I searched I discovered these over-arching themes of the restitution of all things--that God would save ALL people--give them all faith, for we don't even know how to choose wisely.  We are all like sheep/foolish children.  But whether it's a chip or Sunday mark of the beast, no one (and I mean no one) will have everything figured out totally and may end up believing the wrong things at times.  And that's how I think God has set things up, similarly to this hoax.  MJ wants to keep us on the edge of our seats for this drama of all dramas.

Therefore, my view is that both the chip and Sunday law (or something still unknown) could be the mark intertwined.

Absolutely! Good post.. Thanks for sharing! :)

Yes, and isn't it sad that, as you wrote "most Christians are the most judgmental people, though they claim to be loving"....
Sometimes we are the worst ambassadors for Jesus!  crash/  /overreacting/  :'(
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: jono on January 31, 2012, 05:11:04 AM
@ bindupbrokenhearted

+1 on all your posts as usual...
We should grab a coffee or something!!  beerchug

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: jono on January 31, 2012, 05:46:27 AM
I finally found the type of 3D puzzle I was referring to before in my other post.    http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=22042.msg387391#msg387391 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=22042.msg387391#msg387391)


How many of you can see the 3D dinosaur in the middle?  You could enlarge it on your screen, then stare at it close up, and then slowly back away, letting your eyes go slightly out of focus.  That's what I'm saying about the Bible's hidden bigger picture.  Here's more hidden pictures at  http://www.vision3d.com/sghidden.html (http://www.vision3d.com/sghidden.html)



(http://www.vision3d.com/sghidden/images_sghidden/dino.jpeg)

Nooo! It's a spaceship!! lolol/

Please watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11neMoelz8g#t=0m45s
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: applehead250609 on January 31, 2012, 06:05:00 AM
In every good story there must be a protagonist or the villain, as well as the hero and his helpers who save the day.  It's all about good versus evil, the theme of almost all books and movies. Sex is a major component, or driving factor in this story.


SimPattyK, yes, the telling the priests that they must remain celibate, is the setting up for sexual deviancy and sins. God has created us for pro-creation--we are hard-wired.


Quote
The third of Newton's laws of motion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton%27s_laws_of_motion) of classical mechanics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_mechanics) states that forces (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force) always occur in pairs. Every action is accompanied by a reaction of equal magnitude but opposite direction. This principle is commonly known in the Latin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin) language as actio et reactio. The attribution of which of the two forces is action or reaction is arbitrary. Each of the two forces can be considered the action, the other force is its associated reaction.


Every stone we throw in the pond creates ripples that move to the edges, and affect everything in their vicinity.


Michaelangelo after 1508, in the Sistine Chapel at the Vatican. What really was the "fruit"?


(http://www.bible-people.info/Copy_of_Michelangelo_Fall_from_Grace_and_Expulsion_from_Paradise.jpg)

MJonmind thank you very much for pointing this out albino/   :) ,this is very important,and sadly often "let out" by many people.
The GENESIS is very,very important and it's also mentioned in  the last video of Magicalxcapism,what a coincidence,isn'it  ;)   ;D ???
Of course that Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of Knowledge,and by this they felt the "taste" of the FORBIDDEN FRUIT,lol  geek/  albino/  ,but all this it's just METAPHORICALLY way or a SUBSTITUTION of how things really are/were.What people still miss to understand is that the GENESIS ,is not the BEGINING,lol,cause it's in fact the END.It's the END of the IMMORTALITY, cause please don't forget that they both ate from the Tree of Knowledge (the only one in the EDEN) and that means,they wolud know the difference betewn GOOD and EVIL and also they would know the OPPOSITE of IMMORTALITY,which is DEATH.
Now please note that what I'm "speaking" here is what I think and I'm not trying to force anyone to believe  :)  .Everyone here has his beliefes and it's free to believe and to think what they want,after all  bearhug .

Truth/deception:
First let's be clear on something regarding GOOD versus EVIL.There are no good or evil people; there are just those that know the truth and those that do not. The battle between good and evil is a battle between the TRUTH and DECEPTION, nothing more, nothing less  :mrgreen: .
The Bible describes Satan as the “deceiver",  and by definition, that means that Satan has to be your mind. All there is, is the mind and LIFE, and life by definition is “THE TRUTH” ,so Satan, the devil, has to be the deceptive mind. There is life and the imagination; there is nothing else. True or false  :?:  :mrgreen: ?

The talking snake:
The mind is sneaky  :lol:  like the snake in the Bible; it is the perfect metaphor for the devil/mind  :mrgreen:. It will slip into your head, your life, without you noticing it. It is a thought, a judgment  :x , a belief, an idea, guilt, envy, hate  :x , FEAR  :x, worry or one of the mind’s other manifestations. It takes you out of the present if you don’t notice it and recognize it for what it is.Michael knows better  8-)  ,lol,and I think that's why he "teased"us all with his snakes  :lol:  :lol:  :mrgreen: :


(http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Luxury+Pet+Pavilion+Opens+Los+Angeles+Look+6zyRM6toTkml.jpg)

This controlling mind is not your friend. It is no more your friend than the snake in the story of the Garden of Eden was Adam and Eve’s friend. It will tempt, distract, deceive and mislead you. It separates you from God/life and paradise.

Tree of knowledge:
In the mythical story of the Garden of Eden, the tree Adam and Eve ate from and mankind continues to eat from is the tree of knowledge (unfortunately  :x ). It is described as the knowledge of good and evil. It is the knowledge of judgment, of comparison, of right and wrong, success and failure, of life and death, past and future, the opposites of life  :shock:  albino/ .
Adam and Eve learned of the opposites, but not the balance of the opposites, so the grass started looking greener on the other side of the garden. They saw their bodies and felt naked for the first time. They saw death and started worrying. The knowledge caused human beings to start thinking and worrying about life instead of living it. They left the present, because they could no longer see it; they no longer perceived the paradise. They could not see life’s perfection. Human beings became a mind. Mankind (mind kind) was created. As a result, we ended up in the land of Nod. The land of Nod is the land of semi-sleep. We were not good enough, so we began living in a dream world;
we nodded off. It is interesting that the word (nod), a place in a mythical story, came to mean sleep, or not being awake to the truth and life. Just a coincidence? I don't think so  :mrgreen: .
Knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep, for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. Rom 13:11

We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed. 1 Cor 15:51

Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest and arise from the dead, and
Christ shall give thee light. Eph 5:14

The Bible says in many places that mankind is just sleeping and just needs to wake up. The problem is that we are too asleep to know we are asleep,lol  :lol:  :mrgreen: .


The tree of life:
There is another tree in the story of the Garden of Eden that mankind is about to start partaking of. The Bible calls it the tree of life. Once we know the ultimate truth, we wake up to divine life; we metaphorically begin to start partaking of the tree of life. We are born again as spiritual beings. A spiritual being metaphorically eats from both trees.

The Bible says, “Behold the man has become as one of us to know good and evil, now lest he put forth his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat and live forever.” Genesis 3:22

When you eat from the tree of life, you will know both the mind truth (tree of knowledge) and the living truth (tree of life). You will then know the truth and the life (Jesus). Just another coincidence?  :mrgreen:  ;) Too many I think,lol  :lol:  :lol: !!!!!


That Bible verse is supposed to represent the voice of God. The key word is “live”, not just exist forever  :?   :mrgreen: . You can live in God/life forever, in heaven forever. .Please remember Michael words from his song Heal the World  :idea:  ;D :
.
.........................................
If You Want To Know Why
There's A Love That
Cannot Lie
Love Is Strong
It Only Cares For
Joyful Giving
If We Try
We Shall See
In This Bliss
We Cannot Feel
Fear Or Dread
We Stop Existing And
Start Living


The Bible says that God tells Adam and Eve: “If you eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge, you will surely die.” They did not die physically, but they did die spiritually  bangbang  :( . They died to true life; they died to the present, and paradise was lost.
The Bible verse plainly says that if we eat from the tree of life after we eat from the tree of knowledge, we will be as Gods (become as one of us). It says that we will be more than Adam and Eve were. Adam and Eve were not like Gods before eating the apple. We do not want to get back to the garden. Adam and Eve did what they had to do to get to heaven. The Garden of Eden was not perfect, heaven is. To realize heaven, you have to know the truth and the life; you have to metaphorically eat from BOTH TREES  ;)) .

People have been misinterpreting the story,unfortunately  :( . People believe they did something wrong; the OPPOSITE is the truth  albino/  :mrgreen: . They sacrificed paradise for knowledge. The serpent did them the ultimate favor in the long run. We needed the mind to learn the truth, and we needed the truth to know divine life, to get to God and Heaven.


The Bible says, “We must turn our minds into the minds of an angel.”

The story of Adam and Eve has many hidden things in it, but the overall message is how our minds were created. It describes how we joined with the devil/mind, and how we can turn this devil/mind back into an angel.

To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.  Rev. 2:7

In other words, when you overcome the delusions of the mind, you can see LIFE as it truly is, and it will fulfill you . The metaphor of life as fruit or food means LIFE, when truly seen, will nourish you  bearhug . Jesus said, man does not live by bread alone.

True/metaphor:
The Bible story of Adam and Eve is a myth/metaphor and not literal truth, but it explains the literal truth exactly. A coincidence?
No, no absolutely no  :mrgreen: .
The story metaphorically describes the transition of human beings into mankind perfectly. It also shows us the next step in our evolution. The odds of it just being a coincidence are way too high. This story came from our collective unconscious, or the Holy Spirit, if you prefer the religious terminology.


Revelations is about the beginning of Christianity; Genesis is about now  :mrgreen: .

Like most religious things, the Bible is BACKwards and upside down lol  lolol/ . People are thinking Genesis is about just the BEGINING of mankind, and it is actually more about the END; it is about what is happening NOW. People are looking in the book of Revelations thinking it applies to now or the future, when it is mostly about the beginning of Christianity. 666 was Nero, the Emperor of Rome.
Much of both books and the rest of the Bible are misinterpretations or meant for people that lived in the past. Trying to find truth where it does not exist is just a deception of the mind to distract people from the real truth that the books contain.


The truth in the Bible is all mixed up; things are not in the order of events.

About now:
Everything about everything is about now, because nothing else exists. Never look for the truth in the past or future; it is all about
NOW.
It took us ten-thousand years to get into a position to see and understand the knowledge and be able to eat from the tree of LIFE (the NOW), but better late than never. Eating from the tree of LIFE will not be as easy as biting into an APPLE  :mrgreen: . It will require taking control of our animal mind and putting it behind our spirit  ;)) .

Truth first:
As the story of Adam and Eve attests, you have to learn the truth before you get the LIFE. It is in that order, not the other way around. Eastern religions, through meditation and ritual, try to know the life first, and it will not work. You have to learn the truth of this realm, all of it, before you can take the next step in evolution and know TRUE LIFE. How could it be any other way  :shock:  ;) ? If you do not understand the way the world works, how can you overcome it? You cannot overcome what you do not know. It’s the tree of knowledge, then the tree of life in the story of Adam and Eve, and Jesus says he is the TRUTH and the LIFE   bearhug .


Jesus said, "Your minds must be cleared of the falsehoods of this realm if you are to be taught Eternal Truth."
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Suzy7 on January 31, 2012, 06:16:44 AM
 Im_convinced, I just read your post and no offense, but it makes zero sense. You contradicted yourself several times regarding the "Mark of the Beast" not having anything to do with salvation; yet you say "if we refuse to worship "God" (satan) on a Sunday than we are not receiving the mark." Thusly, not keeping sabbath on a Sunday in your opinion, wouldn't give us the MOB and therefore gives us salvation. You also said how one's own belief's have nothing to do with this law. Huh? Of course whether or not we are an Atheist, Jew, Christian, Muslim etc., has everything to do with this law. The whole idea of the law is based off of the Christian Bible, lol. And if this law had nothing to do with what anyone believes, than it shouldn't be a problem for many religious people, even though it's based in religion. Soo? I'm not understanding the big deal if you don't think it has anything to do with Jesus or salvation. Why do you care if you're taking the MOB and worshipping satan than?

 I want to add that I am not disagreeing with much of TS' post at all; just Ron's beliefs and the idea that the old Ark is of importance. Ron believed in keeping sabbath (on Saturday), so for him, any other day would indeed be taking the MOB. That is why whether or not the sabbath part of this law is "taking the MOB", is most definitely dependant upon our personal beliefs. Also Im_convinced, I wasn't saying your posts were enticing paranoia because I don't; but my point is that paranoia and fear should not be more powerful than faith. And that is another reason why what we believe in matters. Keeping sabbath is an ancient law no longer imperative to our salvation. The MOB law is a mere man-made law. Neither of these laws can override how powerful faith alone in God is, if you believe in God. So even IF we were all forced to worship on a Sunday, don't you think God knows what is in our hearts and whom we really worship? I think so.

And bindupbrokenhearted, great posts. You and jono save me alot of typing lol.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Suzy7 on January 31, 2012, 06:35:25 AM
 I do however, think other "laws" are far more concerning. For example, the RFID chip. There is actually much evidence that supports this could be implemented in the near future, and is actually the "Mark of the Beast Law." Late last year major news networks like CNN, reported on the chip being a reasonable solution to our current problems. They even showed what it looks like and how it's similar to what is being used on pets in order to keep track of them etc., and even soon, possibly children. These chips are currently being used for many other things.

 The problem with the "sabbath" part of the MOB law, is how exactly would the government keep tabs on every individual, in every country and force them to worship? That is impossible, unless of course there was some type of chip that allowed them to do that. So perhaps it would be a combination of those things as others have said.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: applehead250609 on January 31, 2012, 11:00:45 AM

I've been thinking about the well known 'hoax quotes' like 'the truth will prevail' and 'it's all going to come out.' What exactly is going to come out in to the open. Could it be the exposing of history for the subtle lies that have crept in to all we have taken as truth. Even in the areas of personal faiths?
The whole sabbath and sunday study has made me look into other areas and one that sticks out to me is the hebrew Yeshua vs the greek Jesus.
http://www.hebrewyeshua.com/hebrew_yeshua_book.html (http://www.hebrewyeshua.com/hebrew_yeshua_book.html)
I think this is just the start of many such misconceptions being righted.
Prior to this hoax, I and probably many others had a preconcieived idea of what Michael was like. In truth, we saw one side of him. His public persona. A true side no doubt, but only a part of the whole. Planning this hoax is proof that there is way more to Michael than I ever thought about and knew. Could this be a parallel to the Yeshua/Jesus debate as well? And I just want to say thankyou to everyone for the privlege of being allowed to think aloud here.




It's the coming of the internet that has enabled the truth to come out, about MJ, about the Bible, about history and more.  Remember Daniel said that in the end times, that, "knowledge will increase."    On the other topic you brought up, there's more than one perspective on the name of 'Jesus' as well.  (Even the study on the name of 'God' is vast with more misconceptions.)  I don't think TS/The Sign are dealing with more than a few misconceptions at a time in their studies. Bring on the next study TS!!


http://www.hebrewisraelites.org/physicalapp.htm (http://www.hebrewisraelites.org/physicalapp.htm)   Here they call him Yahshuah, which is what I believe personally.


(http://www.hebrewisraelites.org/images/blkjesusgmerge.jpg)

In one of my posts from TIAI 11 November I wrote and asked TS for a sign cause I thought that what is happenig with this hoax it's in fact a SUBSTITUTION or a PARALLEL for something bigger maybe  :idea: ???? !!!!!

Quote
Re: TIAI November 11 (11-11-11)
applehead250609
December 17, 2011, 05:20:11 AM »

Quote
TS_comments
    Re: TIAI November 11 (11-11-11)
    « Reply #1844 on: December 13, 2011, 11:26:34 AM »
    Just a short note ...

    Haven't been here on the forum much since 11-30; and I have not had time to read the threads.  I'm in the middle of an important project.  But I will be back next week sometime to catch up on the threads, and work on finishing level 7.

     typing/


Today during my work I suddenly thought at you TS.I was just thinking about this hoax and what kind of project are you doing,cause I mean what could be more important than the level 7  :idea: !!!! I thought also at what is happening to us and that something is not right.The time is too long and the CONTRADICTION WAY TOO BIG  :?!!!!!
After I finished to watch Michael's daughter interview,suddenly the tears started to flow on my face.To see this wonderful and humble girl,standing right there,and talking the way she did,it was almost a shock for me.I know she is humble,I know she is normal but when I think at what was told to us by the media all this years,I still can't believe it.Don't get me wrong,cause I'm not talking about what you all think,no way.One thing is clear to me,that if Michael were here today,the situation would be totally different .Michael would be still "the freak" and his kids still the freak's kids, and nothing more.I usually look at comments done by people who wach the videos on youtube,and I was very happy to see that all the comments were SUPER Positive  :),they all like Paris.
During this 2.5 years of hoax,we learned alot about all kind of things:about Michael's family and friends,about his suppose enemies, about history,about politics,about math,about music business,about movies,abour religion ,about nature,about charities ,any many,many more.In the end I and maybe you all realised that in fact we don't know anything concrete.Michael "died" and we all wait for him to come back,aka to ressurect  :? .Some people believe he died and some believe he didn't,still the life goes on as if nothing happened.Each side believes that they are right.At this point I ask myself,what if it doesen't matter at all if he died or not???? I feel we are missing something here and to BELIEVE or NOT to BELIEVE is in fact about something else.That the hoax we are all experience is just a substitution for something BIGGER  :idea: .
I know that maybe what I just wrote above makes no sense but I had to wrote down what I felt,cause otherwise
my head would explode  :oops: !!!!
TS if you have time give me a sign,please  :mrgreen:  :)  !!!!!!

Now talking about the KNOWLEDGE that will/is increase/increasing.We have to keep in mind that KNOWLEDGE is not the same thing with WISDOM,isn't this right ???? We all can have Knowledge but if we have no Wisdon everything is in vain unfortunately :( .You can't have one whithout the other  :mrgreen:   8-) ,and it's like the male completing the female and Vice Versa .

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-_83EokZ8Kt8/TZvyv3SoCxI/AAAAAAAAABE/TK2B52ETrdg/s1600/ying-yang.jpg)

Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: nefertari on January 31, 2012, 01:36:17 PM
Quote
Quote from Melody
I think this is where the misconception lies: when people are born-again spiritually, they become a new creature (2 Corinthians 5:17), they're made righteous and holy by Yeshua (1 Corinthians 1:30, 2 Corinthians 5:21), they naturally love what is righteous now that they are, so they tend to gravitate towards the law because it is righteousness, not necessarily "to become" righteous because Yeshua has already made them righteous. To say it another way, Yeshua made them righteous and then they fell in love with the law, lol.

I was thinking about covenants in the bible; so, we've got:
Abraham as the leader and Melchizedek an immortal priest
Moses as the leader and Aaron as a mortal priest
Yeshua/Jesus as the leader and immortal priest.
Hebrews 3 says Yeshua replaces Moses; Hebrews 7 says Yeshua replaces Aaron (in the same order of Melchizedek).
It goes from faith covenant—law covenant—back to faith covenant. That's probably why it says that if you walk in the spirit, you are not under the law (Galatians 5:18). It would seem as if YHWH gave the Israelites (that had been in Egypt for 400 years) the torah at Mt. Sinai after their Exodus from Rameses (Numbers 33:3-4, Exodus 24) because as a whole they knew absolutely nothing and had to start off with baby steps, as a people they needed to be taught all over again how to walk in the spirit, then things got Pharisaical, Yeshua incarnates, matures, teaches the people the spirit of the law which is how things were with Abraham (I'm guessing because there's never an explicit indication that he kept the weekly "Sabbath" or was given a written form of a law, that I'm aware of at least). That must mean he walked in the Spirit, so he must have naturally been merciful with his workers, allowing them to rest; ergo, no need for Abraham to be given (nor be held subject to) a written law.
In that case, there really isn't a contradiction: the law is needed for those who are oblivious; once they become aware, they are expected to start walking in the spirit of those instructions. From spiritual milk to spiritual meat (heb 5:12), baby believers to mature believers (1 Peter 2:2, 1 Cor 3:1-2, Heb 6:1).
Thanks Melody. This has made many things clear to me
Quote
Quote from Melody
The weekly day of rest (like all of the other moedims/appointed times) help believers keep certain things in mind, namely YHWH's "plan" for humanity and what he intended/intends to do with the Messiah. 

And that is exactly what TS said : ” The great God of the Bible designed the temple and sanctuary services, to be filled with object lessons illustrating the important truths of God’s plan… Yom Kippur… This service is what God designed, to represent the EOW.”In fact God says about the Day of Atonement: “It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath.” (Leviticus 23:32)
Now, could it be that marking with the blood  the final ark of safety -  in the Day of Atonement (as were marked the houses of the people of Israel to be saved from the last plague of Egypt)  refers to Revelation 7:3)?
3Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
Quote
Quote from TS
…they will survive, because they will be in “the final ark of safety.”
So the “AnointedArk” would be the not physical location where believers are gathered together (for Atonement) before Armageddon. And “pray ye that your flight be not on the sabbath day” can mean “pray ye that your flight be not before the conclusion of the rite of atonement”. Is that why  Michael said,  “we have 4 years to get it right otherwise the damage will be irreversible”?
I wonder if there is a possibility that the hoax  was designed to represent Yom Kippur rite, with the goat who is chosen to be consecrated to God and the scapegoat that is designed to be let into the wilderness. That might also give the answers for level 7
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Do on January 31, 2012, 04:27:26 PM
Suzy7 said:

Quote
The MOB law is a mere man-made law. Neither of these laws can override how powerful faith alone in God is, if you believe in God. So even IF we were all forced to worship on a Sunday, don't you think God knows what is in our hearts and whom we really worship? I think so.
I do however, think other "laws" are far more concerning. For example, the RFID chip. There is actually much evidence that supports this could be implemented in the near future, and is actually the "Mark of the Beast Law." Late last year major news networks like CNN, reported on the chip being a reasonable solution to our current problems. They even showed what it looks like and how it's similar to what is being used on pets in order to keep track of them etc., and even soon, possibly children. These chips are currently being used for many other things.

The problem with the "sabbath" part of the MOB law, is how exactly would the government keep tabs on every individual, in every country and force them to worship? That is impossible, unless of course there was some type of chip that allowed them to do that. So perhaps it would be a combination of those things as others have said
.

Suzy7, this is what I tried to say in my post on page 15.
I agree with you. And I also believe that at this moment, many people (royal house, police men, prisoners, soldiers, certain club-goers, very rich people, mentally ill patients, children etc.) are already chipped, voluntary or mandatory.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on January 31, 2012, 05:00:45 PM
Im_convinced, I just read your post and no offense, but it makes zero sense. You contradicted yourself several times regarding the "Mark of the Beast" not having anything to do with salvation; yet you say "if we refuse to worship "God" (satan) on a Sunday than we are not receiving the mark." Thusly, not keeping sabbath on a Sunday in your opinion, wouldn't give us the MOB and therefore gives us salvation. You also said how one's own belief's have nothing to do with this law. Huh? Of course whether or not we are an Atheist, Jew, Christian, Muslim etc., has everything to do with this law. The whole idea of the law is based off of the Christian Bible, lol. And if this law had nothing to do with what anyone believes, than it shouldn't be a problem for many religious people, even though it's based in religion. Soo? I'm not understanding the big deal if you don't think it has anything to do with Jesus or salvation. Why do you care if you're taking the MOB and worshipping satan than?

 I want to add that I am not disagreeing with much of TS' post at all; just Ron's beliefs and the idea that the old Ark is of importance. Ron believed in keeping sabbath (on Saturday), so for him, any other day would indeed be taking the MOB. That is why whether or not the sabbath part of this law is "taking the MOB", is most definitely dependant upon our personal beliefs. Also Im_convinced, I wasn't saying your posts were enticing paranoia because I don't; but my point is that paranoia and fear should not be more powerful than faith. And that is another reason why what we believe in matters. Keeping sabbath is an ancient law no longer imperative to our salvation. The MOB law is a mere man-made law. Neither of these laws can override how powerful faith alone in God is, if you believe in God. So even IF we were all forced to worship on a Sunday, don't you think God knows what is in our hearts and whom we really worship? I think so.

And bindupbrokenhearted, great posts. You and jono save me alot of typing lol.

I have no clue how you see something that is not there. You are reading my posts incorrectly. Show me where I have said anything of the sort of what you are accusing me of. If you say I'm wrong than you better prove your right. smiley_spider

@bindupbrokenhearted-

Here is where your understanding is flawed. The mark of the beast law DOES NOT=keeping the Sabbath on the right day=Saturday. What the mark of the beast law is about is people who already are worshipping on the wrong day=Sunday. The mark of the beast law is about FORCING people to worship on the wrong day=Sunday. The right day for Sabbath keeping is Saturday=God's law. Worshipping on Sunday=Man's law. You aren't the only one who keeps making this mistake in thinking that IF people worship the Sabbath (on the right day)=mark of the beast.

I hope this makes it clear for you what the info I am posting is really saying. I have said more than once that what I am posting is for the purpose of it being evidence for others to study and then MAKE up their OWN minds. I am not saying that what I am posting is the absolute right way and others way is wrong.

Also everyone who keeps going on about salvation and assuming I or anyone else who talks about the Sabbath has anything to do with each other. I never wrote about having to keep the Sabbath, being under legalistic law, having to do works to be saved, etc. The ones who are saying this have assumed in their own minds that is what we are saying. We aren't even saying anything about faith, salvation, or following the 10 commandments in order to be saved.

If someone chooses to keep the Sabbath on the correct day then that is their spiritual choice. I never said IF you don't keep the correct Sabbath day that you won't be saved. What would be wrong with keeping the Sabbath because someone wants to do it and they are not being forced to do it? Keeping the correct Sabbath day is NOT considered a work anyways. Works=doing charity work and anything else people do thinking that will be enough for God to be impressed.

I am very aware of what the meaning of being saved equals.

Once someone chooses to follow Jesus it doesn't mean that you don't have to at LEAST TRY to be more like Jesus. As much as humanly possible every day we should try to turn away from sinful behavior.


I have not said that IF we refuse to worship on a forced Sunday Law that means we will not take the mark of the beast and therefore we will be saved. I have NOT wrote anything about salvation/being saved having to do with THE MARK OF THE BEAST. I have said that those are seperate subjects. I am posting information for others to actually click the links, go to the websites, read and make up your own mind. I haven't wrote anywhere that this is MY OPINION. I am copying and pasting information. If I write about the stuff I am posting (outside of copied text) it is my UNDERSTANDING of the issue.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: MJonmind on January 31, 2012, 05:54:06 PM
Applehead, yes, the project TS/Front/Michael may be working on may well be End Times.  So, major, major, we have no idea.
Yes, there's knowledge, and then there's the practical application to fit it with today and our world-- and this crazy crazy hoax!!


Jono
Quote
Nooo! It's a spaceship!! Please watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11neMoelz8g#t=0m45s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11neMoelz8g#t=0m45s)



I about died laughing!!!  /scream/







Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: lilwendy on January 31, 2012, 07:08:58 PM
@jono

I have started my Bible with the EOW, because that is the subject most relevant at the moment and while looking into that, and watching videos, I noticed that the minority thought the Sunday law would be the mark of the beast. Since I believe that the minority is usually right, I looked further into that with common sense and the Bible as source, and to me it is clear as day that the Sabbath will be very important in the future and that it is the most forgotten and dismissed commandment of the ten, even though God said REMEMBER it. I am working out my complete study now but that might take a while because I have done studies with people who do NOT believe the Sabbath should still be kept and I want to go into all their comments. One thing I noticed is that they who do not think the Sabbath should still be kept, usually give vague answers or no answer at all, while those who do believe it should still be kept, have amazing scriptural evidence and are able to answer to all the excuses from the ones that don't believe. So I will refrain from commentening on the Sabbath issue until I have everything ready and I will show you why I (and I am not an SDA at all, had never heard of them even before I started to study this) I believe that the Sabbath is not something that should be dismissed.

Matthew 7:14 (KJV)  Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. :-)

Here is a site I found that I am currently going through that may be helpful.  http://www.sabbath-day.net/  Of course I am doing so with Bible in hand (because I think for myself)  :)  (That was for you TS!)

@Souza You are bang on about general evidence vs. specific scriptural evidence.  Well said!
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: SimPattyK on January 31, 2012, 08:38:54 PM
(http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/9020/michaeltheark001.jpg)

More interesting INFO on this link:
http://g8ors.blogspot.com/2009/06/michael-and-ark.html

 ;)

(http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/4471/michaeltheark002.jpg)

Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on January 31, 2012, 09:21:47 PM
Im_convinced, I just read your post and no offense, but it makes zero sense. You contradicted yourself several times regarding the "Mark of the Beast" not having anything to do with salvation; yet you say "if we refuse to worship "God" (satan) on a Sunday than we are not receiving the mark." Thusly, not keeping sabbath on a Sunday in your opinion, wouldn't give us the MOB and therefore gives us salvation. You also said how one's own belief's have nothing to do with this law. Huh? Of course whether or not we are an Atheist, Jew, Christian, Muslim etc., has everything to do with this law. The whole idea of the law is based off of the Christian Bible, lol. And if this law had nothing to do with what anyone believes, than it shouldn't be a problem for many religious people, even though it's based in religion. Soo? I'm not understanding the big deal if you don't think it has anything to do with Jesus or salvation. Why do you care if you're taking the MOB and worshipping satan than?

First part of these last 2 lines: Exactly, you're not understanding what I have said. You are assuming that I have said that. Why would I care?... Very Ignorant question to ask me. I can't make it any clearer why I have been on this forum for 2 years helping as much as possible to bring forth the truth along with TS/Front/ and Many on this forum. My allegiance is known to those who have paid attention. I can't be any more obvious.

Quote
I want to add that I am not disagreeing with much of TS' post at all; just Ron's beliefs and the idea that the old Ark is of importance. Ron believed in keeping sabbath (on Saturday), so for him, any other day would indeed be taking the MOB. That is why whether or not the sabbath part of this law is "taking the MOB", is most definitely dependant upon our personal beliefs. Also Im_convinced, I wasn't saying your posts were enticing paranoia because I don't; but my point is that paranoia and fear should not be more powerful than faith. And that is another reason why what we believe in matters. Keeping sabbath is an ancient law no longer imperative to our salvation. The MOB law is a mere man-made law. Neither of these laws can override how powerful faith alone in God is, if you believe in God. So even IF we were all forced to worship on a Sunday, don't you think God knows what is in our hearts and whom we really worship? I think so.

Can you imagine trying to see past what Ron's Religon/belief's might be or not and realize that the part about Ron finding the true ark of the covenant is what is important.

Quote
18. Not Following Cunningly Devised Fables

2 Peter 1:16, “For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ …”

Most of us have been so accustomed to seeing and hearing fiction for so long, that it may be hard to believe the truth when we are confronted with it. But this is as far from fiction or a joke as it could possibly be—this is reality, to the fullest extent.

It was on January 6, 1982, when Ron Wyatt discovered the anointed ark, hidden in a cave below the crucifixion site. This article and much of the information in it (especially the big picture) was never published until January 21, 2012; so thirty years later, the truth on the true ark is now coming out strong. Jesus was also on earth for thirty years, before the truth of His mission as the anointed Messiah came out strong (see Luke 3:21-23).

My understanding of the scripture referenced is Peter has NOT followed a fable when he told people of the power and coming of our Lord Jesus. He told the truth. Now apply that to what TS is saying regarding Ron and the true ark of the covenant being found. To me he is saying that Ron and himself aren't following some cunningly devised fable but they are telling the truth.

Quote
20 Why Can’t We See the Ark?

Some ask why we can’t see the ark, if Ron really found it? What about the Israelites, did they have to see the ark physically, in order to believe that it existed? Remember, only the high priest was allowed to see the ark, and only on one day of the year (Yom Kippur). Also, the ark is still being guarded by the four angels; so nobody will see the ark without God allowing it (see Leviticus 16:12,13). In fact, Ron said that there were: “… six Israelis that died, in attempts to go in and move it [six men to move the ark!]. … But the men that went in to move it died, before they even got near the chamber.” (~44:00, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfYpYv_A4Ns).
John 20:29 “Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me [resurrected], thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.”

God wants us to see the ark by faith. But not blind faith, gullibly believing everything that anyone tells us; no, we should have intelligent faith that is based upon plenty of evidence. Also, video of the ark and the tables of stone will be made public in the near future, shortly after the mark of the beast law is passed.

I do not follow with blind faith. I follow because I have used intelligent faith by researching the evidence. That is how I have come to understand this subject.

Do you understand why the true ark and the tables of stone will be made public once the MoB law is passed?

My understanding of that is God will show himself to the world through the video of the true ark and his word. Why would he do that then? Because the devil/satan is going to LIE to us, deceive many, trying to make people believe he is God. So the REAL God will come along and shoot down Satan's lies and prove him to be a FAKE.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: BeTheChange on January 31, 2012, 10:54:10 PM
My understanding of that is God will show himself to the world through the video of the true ark and his word. Why would he do that then? Because the devil/satan is going to LIE to us, deceive many, trying to make people believe he is God. So the REAL God will come along and shoot down Satan's lies and prove him to be a FAKE.

I wish He would come today...right this moment.  Even without knowing for sure if I made the 'final cut' or passed His 'test(s)'...I just want to feel His presence and confirm what I KNOW to be true...deep in my soul.  In that one moment of actually seeing Him....and feeling my soul fully shine and love course through me at lightening speed...everything that is, was, or ever will be will cease to matter.  That's THE moment I'm waiting for...looking forward to....craving.  And with all my being...I believe we will see Him soon.

I could replace He/His/Him in the above with Mike....and my feelings would be the same...no other words would need to be changed.  Seeing Mike again...in that moment...I will feel, if even for a second (but I know it will linger lol), 100% love...for everything and everyone....a 'snippet' of Heaven on Earth.  The ONLY moment that can ever, or will ever, top Mike's return....will be His.

The lines blurred, though, awhile back....and everything is grey.

With L.O.V.E. always.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: bec on January 31, 2012, 10:59:45 PM
It is very difficult to determine right/wrong, truth/false with matters of religion and belief. I wish TS would chime in and provide some light. There's so much dogma flying back n forth here... some of us are [I am] lost. The truth is what you make of it, in matters like this, I think. Perhaps in all matters. TS, I'm really going to give it the good Girl Scout try, but I'm feeling overwhelmed with the convo. Help?
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: BeTheChange on January 31, 2012, 11:20:55 PM
I was gonna post this in the 'Songs you listen to' thread...but wanted it post it here.  Beautiful song and video (fanmade)...it fits the thread...and so much more...at least for me.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkPV8Cn_roY&feature=related[/youtube]

With L.O.V.E. always.



Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: Yambo3003 on January 31, 2012, 11:47:04 PM
What about this passage from Colossians?

 Colossians 2:13-19 (KJV)

 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

 15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

 16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

 18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

 19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.


 Christ = New Beginning ?
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: paula-c on February 01, 2012, 10:44:47 AM
There are many interpretations of the "mark of the beast " and the seal of God.
This is an interpreacion that I read.
Where we have to be sealed? In our front. His act is in our hearts. In the New Testament his promise is:


"This is the Covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will give my laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them". Hebrews 10: 16.


The Holy Spirit puts the seal of God in our fronts when the select; . The front contains the Frontal lobe. In this section of the brain is where our conscience. When you receive the seal of God on his forehead, this means you leads him on his conscience. You come to believe in him. You are loyal and faithful.


"Remember you have to the (Saturday) Sabbath day to sanctify it;" six days work, and do all thy work; but the seventh day will be resting for Jebová your God; don't make it some work, your, or your son, or your daughter, nor thy servant, your servant, your beast or your alien that is within your gates; because in six days Lord made the heavens and the Earth, the sea and all things that in them there is, and was on the seventh day; "therefore Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it." Exodus 20: 8-11.


Which is the seal of the beast?, there are people who relate it to the day Sunday, others say that the stamp will be received in one hand. It has to do with the economic aspect.

Receiving in the hand means that when the mark is put in place by "the image of the beast", they her continue, not because they believe in it, but in order to have the advantage of buying and selling, to preserve their work and for their lives. The hand is a symbol of work with which wins the daily sustenance.
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: paula-c on February 01, 2012, 10:52:20 AM
I've been reading and asking people who know more than these issues I, anyone that can see me, only with the Bible, I am obliged to keep the Sunday Holy. There is no such law in the Bible. It is a law of the Catholic Church. The Bible says, 'remember the day Saturday to keep Holy it". The Roman Catholic Church says, ' No. My Divine power I cancel on Saturday and send to keep Holy the first day of the week.' And behold! "The civilised world kneels in reverent obedience to the mandate of the Holy Catholic Church".



Quote
Peter Geiermann, C.S.S.R., The Converts Catechism of Catholic Doctrine (Catechism of the Catholic doctrine of the converts) (1957), p. 50.


"Question:"
What is the Sabbath day?


"Answer:"
On Saturday.


"Question:"
Why we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?


"Answer:"
"We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday."




"I understood that how much God does, is durable, and anything you may add or remove." "God makes it so that men reverencien" Eclesiastes 3: 14
Title: Re: TIAI January 21
Post by: melody on February 01, 2012, 07:15:36 PM
A thought occurred to me as I read over The Sign's post: if the ark of the covenant was the "contract", and Yeshua's blood is the "signature", then wouldn't whatever the ark held at the time be the "terms and conditions" of the contract? Is this why TS brings up Ron Wyatt; Wyatt says he found the stone tablets inside of the ark, so the ark contained the stone tablets when it was "signed"; ergo, assuming Ron Wyatt is legit, all ten commandments are legally binding to Christians under the new contract/covenant. 

I don't think this changes any of what we have discussed so far considering that Yeshua, during his earthly life, taught people how to keep the spirit of the law over the letter.


Quote
The four angels lifted up the top of the Ark and said, "Reach in, take the Ten Commandments out.  When a world-wide law is passed forcing men to violate the Law of God, then they will be shown to mankind."  Mr. Wyatt handed the 10 C's to one of the angels who placed them on a shelf in the cave along with the video showing their removal.  The Ten Commandments are on two tablets of stone and have writing on both sides.  They are written in Proto-Aramaic.

[...]

When a law is passed forcing men to violate the law of God, independent genetic scientists will perform their own analysis of the blood of Christ and will reveal the test results to the world.  Everyone will have an opportunity to see the Ark on video, and some people will be able to see the Ten Commandments in person.  Everyone on earth will have an opportunity to accept Jesus as their Savior and ask forgiveness of their sins.  Shortly after this the Lord will return.  God is providing a simple yet effective show-and-tell demonstration to the world.&