“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world [World Wide Web] for a witness untoNo where does Michael or TS talk about getting the Gospel out to the world, that Jesus died to save them from sins and people need to trust in Jesus.
all nations; and then shall the end come .” (Matthew 24:14).
If you're a religious person, have faith in God.If you're not, then have faith in Michael.Even you would agree that TS has recently verified that he is at least Front. You have said yourself that you are pretty sure Back is authentic, but not necessarily Front.
Anna, am I right in thinking you're not a Christian nor have been raised with hearing a lot of Christian teaching and messages? Now when I read all this stuff and hear the audio again of this Tim Simkin, I'm hearing, reading a totally different person than our TS. He has a different way of talking and passion. One of the biggest things that unites Back, Front, TS and Michael for me, is their unusual usage of the name of Jesus. It is NEVER in the sense of worshipping him, spreading the gospel of Jesus, encouraging people to trust in Jesus, that Jesus did miracles, or was even God, for that matter. Back puts Michael on the same level as Jesus, Michael said he wanted to be like Jesus only in the sense of being kind especially to children, and his lyrics imply that he replaces Jesus in the sense that he/MJ is the light of the world, will answer our prayers, is the chosen one, etc. This Tim Simkin sounds to me like hundreds of Christian speakers that I have listened to, with just another plan to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the world. As he writes under his heading (that you pointed out) of "And then shall the end come".
1-3. What Does the Username “TS” Stand For?
As far as the person(s) operating TIAI (dot-com): many people are not concerned who it is; they just see the importance of the message, and the evidence that it is genuine, and that is sufficient for them.
Others have tried to name a specific person behind it—such as Marlon Jackson, or someone with the personal initials of “TS”. If it really is Marlon, then surely TIAI would be genuine; however, even if I claimed to be Marlon, this would not prove that I really am Marlon. This is why I asked people to go by the evidence that the information is genuine, and not by my claim of who I am or where I got the information.
On the other hand, if I claimed to be someone with the initials of “TS”—this would not prove that I really have those initials; in fact, it wouldn’t even prove that I am not Marlon! And even if I really did have these initials, how could that be any evidence whatsoever that TIAI is or is not genuine??? And yet several have dismissed TIAI, merely on this idea that I have these personal initials!
For the sake of argument, let’s assume that I do have these personal initials—and if this fact became known, then that alone would prove TIAI to be a fake. Do you suppose that if this were actually the case, I would be so careless as to use “TS” for a username??? After all of the time and thought that was put into TIAI and STUDY: would “TS” thoughtlessly be picked for a username, if it would (supposedly) prove that TIAI is fake? Have any of you TIAI objectors stopped to think about how flimsy your objections really are? And by the way: did any of you sharp investigators notice that “TS” is an abbreviation for T-IAI and S-TUDY??
Several people misunderstood the following statement, which was in TIAI Revealed, Part 1: “I am not going to say right now how I got this information; many would not believe me if I told you.”
The point here, especially taken in the wider context, is that I am not asking anyone to believe the information based upon my claim of who is behind TIAI, and/or where the information came from. For example, if I claimed to be Marlon, many would not believe that I am Marlon just because I say so. The words “many would not believe me if I told you”, refer to the previous phrase: “how I got this information”—it is not the information itself that many would not believe, if I told you where I got it.
So once again, the information itself has abundant evidence in the 9 parts, that the information is genuine; so any claim of where I got it is not needed. What is needed, however, is a clear understanding of the evidence which does show the information to be valid. This evidence was understood fairly well by some, but almost completely overlooked and ignored by others—including some who said they read all 9 parts. I have to wonder how quickly they skimmed over it. So in this update, I will go over the evidences that TIAI is genuine; many of these will be repeats taken from portions of the 9 parts (which quite a few people missed and/or ignored), but there will also be a few new ones.
I understand what you say, also you, Kristina4LOVE. But how can one explain the obvious connection between TS and Tim Simkin? The name, the S.T.U.D.Y. name and slogan that TS used when posting under STUDY ("Study to Understand Doctrines Yourself" is Simkin's slogan used also by TS on the old board).
The idea of the site, name, slogan, being used as decoy doesn't hold water. It's not only the name, but the message of spreading God's word to Christians. Literally only religion, love the Lord, read the Bible, spread the Lord's Gospel to as many people as possible, study the Bible, etc. What I mean is- Simkin's site and purpose is only about this, religion, God, Praise the Lord. Only. And i saw some things about NWO but couldn't read, there were only titles. Michael can be more spiritual, he loves God, but he has never created a project to spread the Lord's Gospel to people, neither go to such extent as to focus his life on this.
One major point of ^^^ is that no matter who one may assume TS to be, that is all it is...assumptions and speculations. Many of us read A LOT of what Tim Simkin had on his site and I'm pretty sure everyone pretty much came to the same conclusion....there is nothing concrete to 'prove' that TS is Tim Simkin or anyone else for that matter.
The 'similarities' that are being put forth....the same initials, the religious angle, the interest in the NWO/EOW, and a talent for writing...can apply to many people other than Tim Simkin. I'm sure there's plenty of people with the initials T.S. that are very religious (and therefore believe in some sort of NWO/EOW) and are talented writers. But EVEN IF people think to themselves..."wow, this 'link' between TS and Tim Simkin is too much of a coinicidence to not be true"....IMO, it simply means they have either missed huge chunks of TS' posts OR they haven't dug deep enough because on the surface TS could be anyone, including Tim Simkin.
This might sound pretty simple - but, what if TS is indeed Tim Simkin? What will that mean? Will it change anything? Will it make TS less credible/reliable/less "in-the-know"?Tim Simkin is a Lord Preacher, a Gospel spreader. Only.
If TS is Tim, then the he is not MJ. That is one thing that would come out of the above. Nothing more if you ask me.
and....I'm on the other side. I believe in God, but I will only read about religious things if it comes from Michael, because I HAVE studied the bible most of my life. I have searched and researched and have my answers I am 100% a believer in. I won't do it because some, as you say, "Lord preacher" claims it to be related to Michael in ANY way.This might sound pretty simple - but, what if TS is indeed Tim Simkin? What will that mean? Will it change anything? Will it make TS less credible/reliable/less "in-the-know"?Tim Simkin is a Lord Preacher, a Gospel spreader. Only.
If TS is Tim, then the he is not MJ. That is one thing that would come out of the above. Nothing more if you ask me.
Let aside the religion for a moment. What Tim Simkin says might be true, his message might be positive, mind entertaining, etc. , but if it doesn't come from Michael, then how do you take it? It's ok to go and study the bible, the Lord, spread the Gospel, but we are here for Michael. If we wanted to dig into religion, bible, the Lord, we would have done it on our own.
Most of us spend lots of time digging into Bible verses, stories, even the atheists do it, thinking "It's not my hoax, it's Michael's. Ok, I'm an atheist, but it doesn't matter, I want to understand Michael's message". So we go and digg and read in case of "what if?"; what if TS/TIAI is really Michael's message and that's how we can help Michael? just because we want to understand Michael. Not a religion preacher. I am somehow an atheist, many here are. But I'm sure and I've seen, that I am and they are ready to let aside their atheism and read Bible verses and stories even as literature, to understand Michael. But ONLY if it DOES come from Michael. Not from a Lord preacher.
This might sound pretty simple - but, what if TS is indeed Tim Simkin? What will that mean? Will it change anything? Will it make TS less credible/reliable/less "in-the-know"?
If TS is Tim, then the he is not MJ. That is one thing that would come out of the above. Nothing more if you ask me.
If one assumes TS is not MJ, then TS might be anybody.Could be...but, really who's to say that? Who's to say that Michael is Ts, or if not that Ts was found by Michael?
Then, if one assumes TS/TIAI is part of the hoax, then MJ had to get to know/hire/use this someone (Mr.Mysterious, Mr.Smith, Mr.Simkin or whatever his name is) as long as "Mr.Mysterious" was capable of working/helping him with the hoax.
This is the way I look at it.
One major point of ^^^ is that no matter who one may assume TS to be, that is all it is...assumptions and speculations. Many of us read A LOT of what Tim Simkin had on his site and I'm pretty sure everyone pretty much came to the same conclusion....there is nothing concrete to 'prove' that TS is Tim Simkin or anyone else for that matter.
The 'similarities' that are being put forth....the same initials, the religious angle, the interest in the NWO/EOW, and a talent for writing...can apply to many people other than Tim Simkin. I'm sure there's plenty of people with the initials T.S. that are very religious (and therefore believe in some sort of NWO/EOW) and are talented writers. But EVEN IF people think to themselves..."wow, this 'link' between TS and Tim Simkin is too much of a coinicidence to not be true"....IMO, it simply means they have either missed huge chunks of TS' posts OR they haven't dug deep enough because on the surface TS could be anyone, including Tim Simkin.
As you know from TS's posts, many ways to prove himself were about some specific words used by the family. Like the "revealed" word used in the January 18 2010 tweet. If only one word can prove TS has ties to the family, then:
TS/TIAI:
-using the initials "T" and "S" from Tim Simkin;
-using the screen name S.T.U.D.Y.;
-using the same slogan "Study To Understand Doctrines Yourself";
-numerology;
-Bible/religion preaching
are not proofs he is Tim Simkin?
Just your honest answer.
IF TS is Tim Simkin, then this Tim person not only KNOWS a heck of a lot about MJ, but he also has 'ties' to Sony, TMZ, Elvis, the FBI, Conrad Murray, the court system, and several Jackson family members (and I may be missing some other 'ties'). Where is the 'proof' that Tim Simkin, based on his website and his postings, has ANY of these 'ties' apart from sharing the same initials with TS, a religious background, and a great writing ability? (Although, having read both TS and Tim Simkin, my findings are that the writing styles are very different...even if they are both 'good').
If one assumes TS is not MJ, then TS might be anybody.Could be...but, really who's to say that? Who's to say that Michael is Ts, or if not that Ts was found by Michael?
Then, if one assumes TS/TIAI is part of the hoax, then MJ had to get to know/hire/use this someone (Mr.Mysterious, Mr.Smith, Mr.Simkin or whatever his name is) as long as "Mr.Mysterious" was capable of working/helping him with the hoax.
This is the way I look at it.
Also, who's to say that this is NOT someone with the simple hope of saving souls??
That IS how this person began with us and now how he's ended up....
Well, I don't see it as you do. I never saw undeniable proof that TS has connections to SONY, the family, FBI or Elvis.
Anna, the answer I gave you was my honest answer. The similarities that you mention can be applied to many others...whether or not their initials are T.S. (speaking of which, were is the 'proof' that TS' actual name has those initials?).
You didn't give an honest answer to what I asked in my post though:QuoteIF TS is Tim Simkin, then this Tim person not only KNOWS a heck of a lot about MJ, but he also has 'ties' to Sony, TMZ, Elvis, the FBI, Conrad Murray, the court system, and several Jackson family members (and I may be missing some other 'ties'). Where is the 'proof' that Tim Simkin, based on his website and his postings, has ANY of these 'ties' apart from sharing the same initials with TS, a religious background, and a great writing ability? (Although, having read both TS and Tim Simkin, my findings are that the writing styles are very different...even if they are both 'good').
Where is the 'proof' tying Tim Simkin to any of the 'sources' I listed above which have been established as 'links' with/to TS?
With L.O.V.E. always.
If TS really doesn't want to reveal who he is until after the BAM then it wouldn't make sense to make it so obvious. Tim Simkin - same intials, STUDY site and former username, etc. It takes only a few seconds to google and find the name Tim Simkin from the info we were given. If TS is this guy, he didn't try very hard at concealing it.
reading reading reading and I still don't know what to believe.
Please someone can tell me how people found out of Tim Simkin in the first place?
Let's say I'm new to TIAI and STUDY and I read and I am suspicious - what should I google to get to Tim Simkin without knowing from before that Tim Simkin exists? Let's say I only know about TS, TIAI and Study. How do I get to Tim Simkin?
reading reading reading and I still don't know what to believe.Because of S.T.U.D.Y.
Please someone can tell me how people found out of Tim Simkin in the first place?
Let's say I'm new to TIAI and STUDY and I read and I am suspicious - what should I google to get to Tim Simkin without knowing from before that Tim Simkin exists? Let's say I only know about TS, TIAI and Study. How do I get to Tim Simkin?
This might sound pretty simple - but, what if TS is indeed Tim Simkin? What will that mean? Will it change anything? Will it make TS less credible/reliable/less "in-the-know"?Tim Simkin is a Lord Preacher, a Gospel spreader. Only.
If TS is Tim, then the he is not MJ. That is one thing that would come out of the above. Nothing more if you ask me.
Let aside the religion for a moment. What Tim Simkin says might be true, his message might be positive, mind entertaining, etc. , but if it doesn't come from Michael, then how do you take it? It's ok to go and study the bible, the Lord, spread the Gospel, but we are here for Michael. If we wanted to dig into religion, bible, the Lord, we would have done it on our own.
Most of us spend lots of time digging into Bible verses, stories, even the atheists do it, thinking "It's not my hoax, it's Michael's. Ok, I'm an atheist, but it doesn't matter, I want to understand Michael's message". So we go and digg and read in case of "what if?"; what if TS/TIAI is really Michael's message and that's how we can help Michael? just because we want to understand Michael. Not a religion preacher. I am somehow an atheist, many here are. But I'm sure and I've seen, that I am and they are ready to let aside their atheism and read Bible verses and stories even as literature, to understand Michael. But ONLY if it DOES come from Michael. Not from a Lord preacher.
For your information: I am familiar with the STUDY website. Does this mean that it is me, my website? Maybe; or maybe it’s someone I know; or maybe that website was used as a decoy. Regardless of which is the actual case: you are being tested, to see whether you can unbiasedly assess evidence based upon the evidence itself—and not on who the evidence came from, or who you think it came from, etc.http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=11061.0
@Bec
Yes, everyone has their own will to join in something or not. But we talk here about Michael. I don't know if I make myself clear,but I'm trying.
We are many who love Michael very much, we want to help and understand what this is all about, how we can help, in what way, what we should learn and what we should dig deeper into. You say what's dangerous in TS being Tim Simkin. Well, the very fact that he's all about God and religion. Michael may love God but he's never ever shown any sign of wanting to become a Church figure, Gospel spreader, The Pope or Moses, etc., you understand it.
Think about this- we want to help and we want to understand what Michael wants from us. If this person just seeks to get people to listen to his message (that let's say it didn't reach as many people as he wanted with the "Response-Able" project) he will feed us what he knows we are starving for: Michael. Because that's why we are here for. You can see very well all the religious things we've been fed subliminally, how we are drifted into religion slowly because "that's how we can help Michael". If we ask ourselves "what if this is really Michael's will?", we, even the atheists, like me, like you, would go and read. We drift into the religious aspect because we hope this way we get Michael's message and help. But what IF this is really not his hand? In the end if some Religion Preacher wants many people, then no matter the means, he will get people. And even atheists will listen to it because we hope this helps Michael. All this while this might not be Michael's will at all.
And we feel worthless. Like "if you don't want to join, no one forces you". But I WANT TO. I want to help him. Even as the atheist that I am. Michael would not be that naive as to think he can drift a whole world full of hundreds of different religions, into studying the Bible and the Gospel. If he wanted to become a Preacher he would have done it, he wouldn't have become a music genius, an entertainment genius. Do you understand what I mean?
You are right, if I google Study To Understand Doctrines Yourself it takes me straight to Tim Simkin's site.reading reading reading and I still don't know what to believe.Because of S.T.U.D.Y.
Please someone can tell me how people found out of Tim Simkin in the first place?
Let's say I'm new to TIAI and STUDY and I read and I am suspicious - what should I google to get to Tim Simkin without knowing from before that Tim Simkin exists? Let's say I only know about TS, TIAI and Study. How do I get to Tim Simkin?
TS posted as STUDY on the old board, signing with the phrase "Study To Understand Doctrines Yourself". If you search this phrase you find everything else.
You can see his old posts on the old mjkit
If you're not a religious person…it matters not!
If you think Front is Mickey Mouse…it matters not!
If you're a religious person, have faith in God.
If you're not, then have faith in Michael.
bec you don't get it. You simply don't get it. It's not about shifting the blame on anyone. It above all an overall concern towards what this all has turned into. I read many comments and one of the comments that pushed me to open the thread was one from fordtocarr sometime last week, when she said she posts less and less because she doesn't feel to fit into it anymore. A lot of us sense strange things happening. Not from yesterday or last month, but slowly. A lot of us at this time need some solid answers. Would Michael really want all the people to leave if his purpose was to have us here fighting for him? A lot of people stopped posting or even coming here. Because a lot of us feel worthless, and at this moment, at least since the sentence on November 29th there is nothing left to discuss about. Silence. And a lot of us stop and think.@Bec
Yes, everyone has their own will to join in something or not. But we talk here about Michael. I don't know if I make myself clear,but I'm trying.
We are many who love Michael very much, we want to help and understand what this is all about, how we can help, in what way, what we should learn and what we should dig deeper into. You say what's dangerous in TS being Tim Simkin. Well, the very fact that he's all about God and religion. Michael may love God but he's never ever shown any sign of wanting to become a Church figure, Gospel spreader, The Pope or Moses, etc., you understand it.
Think about this- we want to help and we want to understand what Michael wants from us. If this person just seeks to get people to listen to his message (that let's say it didn't reach as many people as he wanted with the "Response-Able" project) he will feed us what he knows we are starving for: Michael. Because that's why we are here for. You can see very well all the religious things we've been fed subliminally, how we are drifted into religion slowly because "that's how we can help Michael". If we ask ourselves "what if this is really Michael's will?", we, even the atheists, like me, like you, would go and read. We drift into the religious aspect because we hope this way we get Michael's message and help. But what IF this is really not his hand? In the end if some Religion Preacher wants many people, then no matter the means, he will get people. And even atheists will listen to it because we hope this helps Michael. All this while this might not be Michael's will at all.
And we feel worthless. Like "if you don't want to join, no one forces you". But I WANT TO. I want to help him. Even as the atheist that I am. Michael would not be that naive as to think he can drift a whole world full of hundreds of different religions, into studying the Bible and the Gospel. If he wanted to become a Preacher he would have done it, he wouldn't have become a music genius, an entertainment genius. Do you understand what I mean?
Yes, I understand, but not in the way you are hoping I will.
You can dress it up all you want but the fact remains, Anna, and you said it yourself (in bold above), you are making a CHOICE here. You get to decide what is legit and worthy of your time and what is BS and worth none of your time. You are trying to justify blaming someone else (TS) for your emotional fallout over that choice. If you chose not to take responsibility for your own choices, fine, but don't go pointing the finger of blame at other people.
Oh, so this is all a test, a mind game? I thought Michael had some serious reasons for this hoax, and now playing mind games and "testing" believers is one of them? That doesn't sound very likable at all.
I hope this thread won't turn into a fight, I said this is not what I want. I hope it won't. It's for discussion, without doing it in Back's thread or a redirect thread, etc.
Oh, so this is all a test, a mind game? I thought Michael had some serious reasons for this hoax, and now playing mind games and "testing" believers is one of them? That doesn't sound very likable at all.
Well maybe you thought incorrectly. Or perhaps more accurately, maybe you are too short sighted in your assessment. I am personally of the opinion that this hoax is for many reasons; multiple serious agendas being fulfilled via an entertainment vessel. I do believe the ARG aspect is a game designed to promote spiritual (non-religious) awakening and self exploration/awareness. You want to call that mind games, fine. I disagree with you.
But then perhaps I am thinking incorrectly as well.
TIAI Revealed, Part 6: “This Is It” Movie Rating (R20 - R28)
Part 6 here has to do with the movie, “This Is It”, and also statements that I made about the movie (with username S.T.U.D.Y.) before it came out. I may repost those old S.T.U.D.Y. threads soon in this forum, with some updates, under the “Numbers Theory” section {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/board,14.0.html}.
In addition to my 9-9-09 prediction, I made several other statements about “This Is It” weeks before it came out publicly. Here are a few examples, all stated on 9-18-09; this was more than a month before the release of “This Is It”, and the old MJkit forum still has this thread available to read (dated 9-20-09, because it was reposted on MJkit a couple days after I posted it on MJHD; {http://mjkit.forumotion.net/the-numbers-theory-for-all-theories-regarding-the-numbers-theory-f58/from-mjhd-excellent-the-9-9-09-prediction-did-come-true-this-is-it-settles-the-question-is-mj-alive-t1766.htm}
“Yes, this whole hoax and plan is for a bigger purpose than just exposing the media. It is time for everyone to STUDY peace {http://new.etonline.com/documents/mjackson_funeral_program_et_090409.pdf}: peace in our own lives, and peace in our world.”
“So if an MJ ‘resurrection’ is part of the plan and movie, what day would it be: … During the funeral wouldn’t even fit with the original Thriller, because the dead did not hop out of their caskets during a funeral—no, they came out of their graves. … ‘R’ = MJ Resurrection (9-9-09), MJ Return, MJ hoax Revealed!!! … Let’s see how many ‘R’ votes we can get between now and October 28 …”
Notice here that I connected the “Resurrection” with 9-9-09, which was already 9 days past at that time; so I was not using resurrection in the sense of returning to public view—I used the word “Return” for that. I used the word “resurrection” in the sense of a concept, related to the hoax and especially the Thriller II film segment (graveyard scene, see R20 & R21 below).
As already stated, the cinema version of the movie did “Reveal” the hoax to a degree (no MJ RIP; Smooth Criminal hoax death, hoax death actor in original “Gilda” had same birthday as MJ {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Macready}; and MJ “bam” statement at end, etc). And the home version will reveal it even more (see R20 & R22 below).
Then what about the MJ “Return” to public view, when will that be? Well, the sad thing is that potentially he could’ve returned at Halloween; but we were not ready. We did not understand the NWO conspiracy aspect of the hoax, or the seriousness of it; in fact, the old MJHD was forbidding discussion on this subject! And just a few days later, it went down and was out for about a week. We simply were not ready for MJ to return yet; if he had, in all the excitement, people would’ve had little or no interest in studying into the NWO aspects of the hoax.
Since people were not ready for the MJ return at Halloween: immediately after the TII movie was released, TIAI was set up. The purpose of TIAI was (and still is) to give MJ fans, and especially hoax believers, a better understanding and bigger picture of the hoax and the reasons for it; this in turn would help prepare the way for the MJ “Return”!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
R20. 2 to 3 Hours of Additional Footage on “THIS IS IT” DVD/Blu-ray
{http://www.collider.com/2009/10/31/exclusive-director-kenny-ortega-says-expect-2-to-3-hours-of-additional-footage-on-this-is-it-dvdblu-ray/}
This was a video clip of an interview with Kenny Ortega, about the fact that the DVD and Blu-ray versions of “This Is It” would have 2 or 3 hours of additional footage. Please notice that this redirect was on November 22, which was a week before the official release date (and specific content) was made public. That did not happen until November 30 {http://www.michaeljackson.com/us/news/michael-jacksons-it-dvd-and-blu-ray-release-date-announced}.
Once the DVD release date was made public, the website gave the specifics of what would be included in the additional footage {http://www.thisisitmovieondvd.com/, then click “Special Features” at the top}.
So, it doesn't matter if TS is a preacher or if it is Michael.
Sarah, I also think MJ will never say - I'm testing you. He's just not that kind of person.Oh, so this is all a test, a mind game? I thought Michael had some serious reasons for this hoax, and now playing mind games and "testing" believers is one of them? That doesn't sound very likable at all.
Well maybe you thought incorrectly. Or perhaps more accurately, maybe you are too short sighted in your assessment. I am personally of the opinion that this hoax is for many reasons; multiple serious agendas being fulfilled via an entertainment vessel. I do believe the ARG aspect is a game designed to promote spiritual (non-religious) awakening and self exploration/awareness. You want to call that mind games, fine. I disagree with you.
But then perhaps I am thinking incorrectly as well.
Seriously, if someone just wants to test me, play with me, manipulate me - or do this to other people, they can go eff themselves. Nothing justifies that, not even a death hoax for serious reasons. That is my honest opinion. And one of the reasons why I always questioned certain "insiders". And come on, if they themselves are saying "I'm testing you" - I don't want to be on the receiving end of this, in general and especially not if I don't even know who this person is, because it's just some anonymous username on the internet. I don't want to be the mouse running through the labyrinth while someone is watching me, may the intentions be good or bad. A decent human being doesn't use other human beings that way.
Might I suggest you all read T.S. Elliot's The Hollow Men? Might shine a light on some subject matters.
So, it doesn't matter if TS is a preacher or if it is Michael.
I don't get this, how does it not matter? The people who believe in "TS" also believe that he is either Michael or someone working for Michael or a family member giving clues for the hoax, etc. Now if it turns out none of that is true and it's just some preacher using the forum and the believers for his own agenda, claiming that he is an "insider" and close to Michael, when his agenda has nothing to do with Michael, how does that not matter, especially after doing this for 2.5 years? And without "TS", if he is just some preacher, a big part of the whole hoax theory is just breaking off and away. So how does this not matter?
The Seventh-day Adventist Church and the teachings of Ellen G. White developed out of the Millerite movement organized by William Miller in the 1840's.That's another huge Bible-based faith group that I've studied, a parallel group to JW's, with their own slants on Scripture, and definately not Michael's.
TS
For your information: I am familiar with the STUDY website. Does this mean that it is me, my website? Maybe; or maybe it’s someone I know; or maybe that website was used as a decoy. Regardless of which is the actual case: you are being tested, to see whether you can unbiasedly assess evidence based upon the evidence itself—and not on who the evidence came from, or who you think it came from, etc.
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=11061.0 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=11061.0)
Michael may love God but he's never ever shown any sign of wanting to become a Church figure, Gospel spreader, The Pope or Moses, etc., you understand it.
Speculation About the Purpose of TIAI
I love all of you hoax believers, even those who have opposed TIAI; and I also love the non-believers. In fact, I love all people of all races and all religions. But many hoax believers have not taken TIAI seriously, based primarily or entirely on assumption—not on any solid evidence. Good investigators do not dismiss any avenue of investigation, unless there is very solid evidence that it’s not valid. Actually, TIAI is the farthest from goofing around as you can possibly get; anyone who reads all 9 parts will know this for certain, without a trace of doubt.http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=1924.msg27558#msg27558 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=1924.msg27558#msg27558)
IMO, Michael is still proselytizing. Did you come to the same conclusion?
But I'm sure and I've seen, that I am and they are ready to let aside their atheism and read Bible verses and stories even as literature, to understand Michael. But ONLY if it DOES come from Michael. Not from a Lord preacher.
Well this subject of Tim Simkins has been brought several times already with no conclusion and this time again with abslolutely no evidence, clue or dot to be connected. All the while we received many more clues validating TS and Front but people refuse to see the connections. I'm sorry but I am like this right now ------> /pull hair/I'm CERTAINTY NOT attacking TS.
TS has not taken over we believed in the Hoax before he came in and it's a free choice if one wants to "follow" his posts. No one is obliged so I don't understand why all the attacks against him. People are free to open their own threads and begin their own investigation. No?
Sarah, I also think MJ will never say - I'm testing you. He's just not that kind of person.Oh, so this is all a test, a mind game? I thought Michael had some serious reasons for this hoax, and now playing mind games and "testing" believers is one of them? That doesn't sound very likable at all.
Well maybe you thought incorrectly. Or perhaps more accurately, maybe you are too short sighted in your assessment. I am personally of the opinion that this hoax is for many reasons; multiple serious agendas being fulfilled via an entertainment vessel. I do believe the ARG aspect is a game designed to promote spiritual (non-religious) awakening and self exploration/awareness. You want to call that mind games, fine. I disagree with you.
But then perhaps I am thinking incorrectly as well.
Seriously, if someone just wants to test me, play with me, manipulate me - or do this to other people, they can go eff themselves. Nothing justifies that, not even a death hoax for serious reasons. That is my honest opinion. And one of the reasons why I always questioned certain "insiders". And come on, if they themselves are saying "I'm testing you" - I don't want to be on the receiving end of this, in general and especially not if I don't even know who this person is, because it's just some anonymous username on the internet. I don't want to be the mouse running through the labyrinth while someone is watching me, may the intentions be good or bad. A decent human being doesn't use other human beings that way.
But hey, do you remember Murray said in his documentary that Michael had been testing him for a pretty long time before he could trust him? So, does that mean that we are wrong in thinking that or Murray was lying?
Well this subject of Tim Simkins has been brought several times already with no conclusion and this time again with abslolutely no evidence, clue or dot to be connected. All the while we received many more clues validating TS and Front but people refuse to see the connections. I'm sorry but I am like this right now ------> /pull hair/I'm CERTAINTY NOT attacking TS.
TS has not taken over we believed in the Hoax before he came in and it's a free choice if one wants to "follow" his posts. No one is obliged so I don't understand why all the attacks against him. People are free to open their own threads and begin their own investigation. No?
I never said a bad thing against him. I actually said I hope he IS Michael. I hope I am wrong. I love the people here and TS is one of us.
What I am saying is all of the hoax tends to be based upon his "rules" and if I don't follow them or research them, I'm totally lost on the
entire forum. Opening my own thread would lead to being lost as most believe TS is gospel.
I'm just saying, if some of us do NOT fully, entirely give our whole trust in TS, or ANYONE, then we hear things as you wrote.
If I have free will, which I do and do not follow most things now because of this..then I am lost on the whole site.
Oh, so this is all a test, a mind game? I thought Michael had some serious reasons for this hoax, and now playing mind games and "testing" believers is one of them? That doesn't sound very likable at all.
Well maybe you thought incorrectly. Or perhaps more accurately, maybe you are too short sighted in your assessment. I am personally of the opinion that this hoax is for many reasons; multiple serious agendas being fulfilled via an entertainment vessel. I do believe the ARG aspect is a game designed to promote spiritual (non-religious) awakening and self exploration/awareness. You want to call that mind games, fine. I disagree with you.
But then perhaps I am thinking incorrectly as well.
Seriously, if someone just wants to test me, play with me, manipulate me - or do this to other people, they can go eff themselves. Nothing justifies that, not even a death hoax for serious reasons. That is my honest opinion. And one of the reasons why I always questioned certain "insiders". And come on, if they themselves are saying "I'm testing you" - I don't want to be on the receiving end of this, in general and especially not if I don't even know who this person is, because it's just some anonymous username on the internet. I don't want to be the mouse running through the labyrinth while someone is watching me, may the intentions be good or bad. A decent human being doesn't use other human beings that way.
Sarah, I also think MJ will never say - I'm testing you. He's just not that kind of person.
But hey, do you remember Murray said in his documentary that Michael had been testing him for a pretty long time before he could trust him? So, does that mean that we are wrong in thinking that or Murray was lying?
Piero di Cosimo's "The Discovery of Honey by Bacchus" revisited (http://boston.com/ae/blogs/sebastiansmee/2011/06/piero_di_cosimos_the_discovery.html)http://boston.com/ae/blogs/sebastiansmee/ (http://boston.com/ae/blogs/sebastiansmee/)
Posted by Sebastian Smee June 23, 2011 12:29 PM
After taking a look at Piero di Cosimo's "The Discovery of Honey by Bacchus" at the Worcester Art Museum in Tuesday's Frame by Frame column (http://www.boston.com/ae/theater_arts/articles/2011/06/21/sebastian_smees_looks_at_the_discovery_of_honey_by_bacchus_at_worcester_art_museum/?camp=localsearch:on:twit:smee), I received an email from a man named Donald Novak:
"One thing you didn't comment on but seems to jump out of the painting is that the tree trunk is a grotesque of a woman in labor. I don't understand how that image might belong to the story. But maybe just another manifestion of his [Piero's] strange personality. Or is it a figment of my diseased mind?"
Decide for yourself, but I personally don't think Mr Novak's mind is diseased. I have no idea how much validity his interpretation has, but it does chime with an interpretation once offered in Art Bulletin by Fr Thomas Matthews of Boston College.
Where Panofsky's interpretation underplayed the significance of the discovery of honey, Matthews points out that honey had long been associated with the theme of love.
The multiple occurrence of couples in the painting and Pan's offering of a bunch of onions (a known aphrodisiac to the ancients) confirmed for him the amorous theme.
And so perhaps, with this interpretation in mind, Novak's observation about the tree makes sense?
There is, after all, an infant issuing forth from the hollow in the tree's base... Or, as Matthews put it: "For this gnarled and very striking tree which holds the hidden and desired honey is the same tree in whose hollow, as in a womb, we discover the child at play. In one bold stroke, the discovery of honey is thus identified with the discovery of love."
I'm CERTAINTY NOT attacking TS.
I never said a bad thing against him. I actually said I hope he IS Michael. I hope I am wrong. I love the people here and TS is one of us.
What I am saying is all of the hoax tends to be based upon his "rules" and if I don't follow them or research them, I'm totally lost on the
entire forum. Opening my own thread would lead to being lost as most believe TS is gospel.
I'm just saying, if some of us do NOT fully, entirely give our whole trust in TS, or ANYONE, then we hear things as you wrote.
If I have free will, which I do and do not follow most things now because of this..then I am lost on the whole site.
I really believe in my heart and you don't need to be his mother or brother to understand that a man like Michael, who tried to unite people as one allover the world, would not go with the principle of "you don't believe, you don't belong". TS said once something of this sort: "have you noticed how some are ready and willing to rather have MJ dead than accept they are wrong?" when it was a discussion about the numerology and how people questioned it. Have you really thought how much such statement hurts? How can one say something like that? It's making you to feel guilty for not accepting it.I don't think TS meant what you say with that statement. In fact I agree with TS - some would prefer to have MJ dead than admit they were wrong. So very true.
This is one of my concerns, others brought up other concerns. For me it's about what Michael WANTS. Like fordtocarr said- is this what Michael wants?
I'm CERTAINTY NOT attacking TS.
I never said a bad thing against him. I actually said I hope he IS Michael. I hope I am wrong. I love the people here and TS is one of us.
What I am saying is all of the hoax tends to be based upon his "rules" and if I don't follow them or research them, I'm totally lost on the
entire forum. Opening my own thread would lead to being lost as most believe TS is gospel.
I'm just saying, if some of us do NOT fully, entirely give our whole trust in TS, or ANYONE, then we hear things as you wrote.
If I have free will, which I do and do not follow most things now because of this..then I am lost on the whole site.
Yep. That's exactly what happens.
It matters who one follows. We have to know who's behind.
John 6:55-71American Standard Version (ASV)
55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56 He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood abideth in me, and I in him.
57 As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father; so he that eateth me, he also shall live because of me.
58 This is the bread which came down out of heaven: not as the fathers ate, and died; he that eateth this bread shall live for ever.
59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.
60 Many therefore of his disciples, when the heard this, said, This is a hard saying; who can hear it?
61 But Jesus knowing in himself that his disciples murmured at this, said unto them, Doth this cause you to stumble?
62 What then if ye should behold the Son of man ascending where he was before?
63 It is the spirit that giveth life; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I have spoken unto you are spirit, are are life.
64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who it was that should betray him.
65 And he said, For this cause have I said unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it be given unto him of the Father.
66 Upon this many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
67 Jesus said therefore unto the twelve, Would ye also go away? 68 Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. 69 And we have believed and know that thou art the Holy One of God. 70 Jesus answered them, Did not I choose you the twelve, and one of you is a devil? 71 Now he spake of Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.
Oh, so this is all a test, a mind game? I thought Michael had some serious reasons for this hoax, and now playing mind games and "testing" believers is one of them? That doesn't sound very likable at all.
Well maybe you thought incorrectly. Or perhaps more accurately, maybe you are too short sighted in your assessment. I am personally of the opinion that this hoax is for many reasons; multiple serious agendas being fulfilled via an entertainment vessel. I do believe the ARG aspect is a game designed to promote spiritual (non-religious) awakening and self exploration/awareness. You want to call that mind games, fine. I disagree with you.
But then perhaps I am thinking incorrectly as well.
Seriously, if someone just wants to test me, play with me, manipulate me - or do this to other people, they can go eff themselves. Nothing justifies that, not even a death hoax for serious reasons. That is my honest opinion. And one of the reasons why I always questioned certain "insiders". And come on, if they themselves are saying "I'm testing you" - I don't want to be on the receiving end of this, in general and especially not if I don't even know who this person is, because it's just some anonymous username on the internet. I don't want to be the mouse running through the labyrinth while someone is watching me, may the intentions be good or bad. A decent human being doesn't use other human beings that way.
Well see, but again, if that's how you feel, and I DO respect it, you have a choice to disregard and move on to something else you deem more worthy of your time. No one is trying to force you to watch and read and keep track of, least of all TS. You can click the red X and move on. Everyone makes a personal choice to participate in TS threads or not. They aren't pop ups when you visit the site or anything.
I do strongly believe that we all need to seriously consider the possibility that Michael Jackson is absolutely nothing like the person we believed him to be for our entire lives.
I will just let it go and wait for things unfold itself. One thing is clear- WE HAVE BEEN HERE TO "INVESTIGATE"= FIND OUT WHETHER MJ IS ALIVE-IF SO , HOW HE DID IT; IF DEAD- WHO DID IT. THEN HOAX INVESTIGATION TURNS OUT TO BE DIFFICULT AND TO KEEP FAITH AND HOAX GOING, A NEW THEORY HAS DEVELOPED:GOD, BIBLE,ETC.
MICHAEL'S BELIEVE IN GOD AND HIS MESSAGE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HOAX AND REAL REASONS BEHIND IT. IF MJ KILLED IS ABOUT MONEY, IF MJ IS ALIVE AND HOXING, IT IS ABOUT REVENGE & THREAT TO LIFE.
AS FOR TS, WHETHER HE IS TOM SIMKIN OR NOT, TO ME HE IS NOT MICHAEL NOR HIS INSIDER, NEVER WAS. THIS IS NOT A BIG NEWS FOR ME, BUT IT IS NOT AN HONEST GAME TO ONES WHO BELIEVED HE IS MJ OR "HIRED" BY MJ.
There is no attack against anybody. people perceive it as attack because it doesn't fit to what image they have about some person.
So far all the discussions about this have been left in the air, forgotten, banned, people shut up. I just want to have a place where we are free to express our concerns, thoughts and opinions without being slammed. Some of us honestly don't want fights. Just answers and understanding. We are free and democratically we have the right to discuss this subject too, because no one bashed anyone. This is serious and real talk, not bashing.
There is an obvious connection between TS and STUDY/Tim Simkin. At least, if you state you don't find ANY connection, this doesn't mean anything?- the name used, the slogan used, the religious aspect and the numerology. These are evidence of connection that in my opinion are stronger than other subtle clues. You see it with your eyes. From here all the questions and discussions, and debate over the entire purpose of all this.
Like fordtocarr said, I put here my thoughts also- some of us can just stay away. Leave it all and stay away. But Michael fought all his life to bring people together, to not discriminate anyone, to not separate anyone. This context of "you don't believe, you don't belong" is discriminating. Is Michael's message really so much about religion? Is Michael's will to have so many people leaving? If anything, it should unite us, not separate us. It's obvious and everyone knows, that as long as you perpetrate a religious message there will be always a reason for separation. Because there are people with other convictions, other religions, others are atheists.
It's true that TS/TIAI didn't have only religious subjects, but many are based on religious aspects and Bible study and Lord preaching, studying the Ark of the Covenant, etc.
I really believe in my heart and you don't need to be his mother or brother to understand that a man like Michael, who tried to unite people as one allover the world, would not go with the principle of "you don't believe, you don't belong". TS said once something of this sort: "have you noticed how some are ready and willing to rather have MJ dead than accept they are wrong?" when it was a discussion about the numerology and how people questioned it. Have you really thought how much such statement hurts? How can one say something like that? It's making you to feel guilty for not accepting it.
This is one of my concerns, others brought up other concerns. For me it's about what Michael WANTS. Like fordtocarr said- is this what Michael wants?
I'm CERTAINTY NOT attacking TS.
I never said a bad thing against him. I actually said I hope he IS Michael. I hope I am wrong. I love the people here and TS is one of us.
What I am saying is all of the hoax tends to be based upon his "rules" and if I don't follow them or research them, I'm totally lost on the
entire forum. Opening my own thread would lead to being lost as most believe TS is gospel.
I'm just saying, if some of us do NOT fully, entirely give our whole trust in TS, or ANYONE, then we hear things as you wrote.
If I have free will, which I do and do not follow most things now because of this..then I am lost on the whole site.
Yep. That's exactly what happens.
Well there is another major hoax site that has zero TS influence that you could participate on if this is how you feel. I'm not being snotty, I really just don't get it.
I don't understand the complaint. You chose to be here, you chose to participate, yet you have a multitude of complaints about it. I don't understand being unhappy and yet returning time after time again to complain some more and remain so perpetually unhappy by your own doing.
WOW, I"m sorry. Things have changed on here, and I'm trying to understand WHY and why we are so easy to follow the changes. I'm sorry for the "complaints" while I try to understand, learn, ask and investigate. Love u anyhow and I do appreciate your opinion.It matters who one follows. We have to know who's behind.
I can appreciate that, but TS has made it pretty clear that his identity isn't going to be revealed until some later date. That being said, you then have to make a choice; to believe in leu of proof, or that you are not comfortable taking that leap of faith. There is no wrong answer but again we come back to choice.
If I could jump in for a second.....perhaps "testing" is too strong of word with a negative connotation. It implies that some believers might "test" better etc. Therefor, sending a signal that some are better than others.....which I am sure is far from Michael's heart. Nobody is better than anyone else here, we all know that.Sarah, I also think MJ will never say - I'm testing you. He's just not that kind of person.Oh, so this is all a test, a mind game? I thought Michael had some serious reasons for this hoax, and now playing mind games and "testing" believers is one of them? That doesn't sound very likable at all.
Well maybe you thought incorrectly. Or perhaps more accurately, maybe you are too short sighted in your assessment. I am personally of the opinion that this hoax is for many reasons; multiple serious agendas being fulfilled via an entertainment vessel. I do believe the ARG aspect is a game designed to promote spiritual (non-religious) awakening and self exploration/awareness. You want to call that mind games, fine. I disagree with you.
But then perhaps I am thinking incorrectly as well.
Seriously, if someone just wants to test me, play with me, manipulate me - or do this to other people, they can go eff themselves. Nothing justifies that, not even a death hoax for serious reasons. That is my honest opinion. And one of the reasons why I always questioned certain "insiders". And come on, if they themselves are saying "I'm testing you" - I don't want to be on the receiving end of this, in general and especially not if I don't even know who this person is, because it's just some anonymous username on the internet. I don't want to be the mouse running through the labyrinth while someone is watching me, may the intentions be good or bad. A decent human being doesn't use other human beings that way.
But hey, do you remember Murray said in his documentary that Michael had been testing him for a pretty long time before he could trust him? So, does that mean that we are wrong in thinking that or Murray was lying?
I totally see Michael testing people. But this is just my perception.
Oh, so this is all a test, a mind game? I thought Michael had some serious reasons for this hoax, and now playing mind games and "testing" believers is one of them? That doesn't sound very likable at all.
Well maybe you thought incorrectly. Or perhaps more accurately, maybe you are too short sighted in your assessment. I am personally of the opinion that this hoax is for many reasons; multiple serious agendas being fulfilled via an entertainment vessel. I do believe the ARG aspect is a game designed to promote spiritual (non-religious) awakening and self exploration/awareness. You want to call that mind games, fine. I disagree with you.
But then perhaps I am thinking incorrectly as well.
Seriously, if someone just wants to test me, play with me, manipulate me - or do this to other people, they can go eff themselves. Nothing justifies that, not even a death hoax for serious reasons. That is my honest opinion. And one of the reasons why I always questioned certain "insiders". And come on, if they themselves are saying "I'm testing you" - I don't want to be on the receiving end of this, in general and especially not if I don't even know who this person is, because it's just some anonymous username on the internet. I don't want to be the mouse running through the labyrinth while someone is watching me, may the intentions be good or bad. A decent human being doesn't use other human beings that way.
Well see, but again, if that's how you feel, and I DO respect it, you have a choice to disregard and move on to something else you deem more worthy of your time. No one is trying to force you to watch and read and keep track of, least of all TS. You can click the red X and move on. Everyone makes a personal choice to participate in TS threads or not. They aren't pop ups when you visit the site or anything.
bec, now what makes you think that just because I don't believe in those "insiders", I'm not interested in investigating them? In watching what they are doing? That is why I follow certain threads on here, I want to know who is doing this and why, some people just want to believe that Michael is behind the "insiders" and just don't want anyone doubting them for the simple reason that they themselves don't have 110 % trust in them, because there is no real proof, but there are things pointing in some other directions too. Those who believe in those "insiders" don't want to be reminded of that.
I don't know about you, but I am here to investigate, and the things that point in other directions make a lot more sense than TS being an actual insider (and the same goes for Front, just because they "legitimized" each other doesn't have to mean they are Michael or close to Michael, it could be just one fake legitimzing the other fake).
I am here to investigate and find the truth, not follow some anonymous users because they are good at being cryptic and writing like a horoscope (meaning, it can be interpreted in all kinds of ways, even in opposite ways, so you can read whatever you want into it). If you investigate something, you have to keep an open mind and look at all directions. Which I did. If you just look into one and then talk about "faith", that's the opposite of an investigation. This forum is not called "Michael Jackson Death Hoax Church".
I would hope that Michael feels secure enough, with enough of us, that he can truly, for the first time ever.....see humble, caring love towards him and his family. Not raving lunatics with any ulterior motives or agendas. He was surrounded by people that took advantage of him.....sad, but true. Some of those, took advantage to new heights of desperation. Some, just lingered around taking bits of his life here and there. I would hope, if he is here, he is indeed questioning us enough to find a steadfast love and respect....for all things Jackson. Enough answers to fill his heart with the same joy he gave so freely.
By your own words you have concluded your investigation (bolded by me for reference), and additionally have such strong, negative views about this site, so then why do you linger?
I was looking for this, and i found it, remember what he said TS of the film Este es weeks before it will be released?QuoteTIAI Revealed, Part 6: “This Is It” Movie Rating (R20 - R28)
Part 6 here has to do with the movie, “This Is It”, and also statements that I made about the movie (with username S.T.U.D.Y.) before it came out. I may repost those old S.T.U.D.Y. threads soon in this forum, with some updates, under the “Numbers Theory” section {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/board,14.0.html}.
In addition to my 9-9-09 prediction, I made several other statements about “This Is It” weeks before it came out publicly. Here are a few examples, all stated on 9-18-09; this was more than a month before the release of “This Is It”, and the old MJkit forum still has this thread available to read (dated 9-20-09, because it was reposted on MJkit a couple days after I posted it on MJHD; {http://mjkit.forumotion.net/the-numbers-theory-for-all-theories-regarding-the-numbers-theory-f58/from-mjhd-excellent-the-9-9-09-prediction-did-come-true-this-is-it-settles-the-question-is-mj-alive-t1766.htm}
“Yes, this whole hoax and plan is for a bigger purpose than just exposing the media. It is time for everyone to STUDY peace {http://new.etonline.com/documents/mjackson_funeral_program_et_090409.pdf}: peace in our own lives, and peace in our world.”
“So if an MJ ‘resurrection’ is part of the plan and movie, what day would it be: … During the funeral wouldn’t even fit with the original Thriller, because the dead did not hop out of their caskets during a funeral—no, they came out of their graves. … ‘R’ = MJ Resurrection (9-9-09), MJ Return, MJ hoax Revealed!!! … Let’s see how many ‘R’ votes we can get between now and October 28 …”
Notice here that I connected the “Resurrection” with 9-9-09, which was already 9 days past at that time; so I was not using resurrection in the sense of returning to public view—I used the word “Return” for that. I used the word “resurrection” in the sense of a concept, related to the hoax and especially the Thriller II film segment (graveyard scene, see R20 & R21 below).
As already stated, the cinema version of the movie did “Reveal” the hoax to a degree (no MJ RIP; Smooth Criminal hoax death, hoax death actor in original “Gilda” had same birthday as MJ {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Macready}; and MJ “bam” statement at end, etc). And the home version will reveal it even more (see R20 & R22 below).
Then what about the MJ “Return” to public view, when will that be? Well, the sad thing is that potentially he could’ve returned at Halloween; but we were not ready. We did not understand the NWO conspiracy aspect of the hoax, or the seriousness of it; in fact, the old MJHD was forbidding discussion on this subject! And just a few days later, it went down and was out for about a week. We simply were not ready for MJ to return yet; if he had, in all the excitement, people would’ve had little or no interest in studying into the NWO aspects of the hoax.
Since people were not ready for the MJ return at Halloween: immediately after the TII movie was released, TIAI was set up. The purpose of TIAI was (and still is) to give MJ fans, and especially hoax believers, a better understanding and bigger picture of the hoax and the reasons for it; this in turn would help prepare the way for the MJ “Return”![/size]
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
R20. 2 to 3 Hours of Additional Footage on “THIS IS IT” DVD/Blu-ray
{http://www.collider.com/2009/10/31/exclusive-director-kenny-ortega-says-expect-2-to-3-hours-of-additional-footage-on-this-is-it-dvdblu-ray/}
This was a video clip of an interview with Kenny Ortega, about the fact that the DVD and Blu-ray versions of “This Is It” would have 2 or 3 hours of additional footage. Please notice that this redirect was on November 22, which was a week before the official release date (and specific content) was made public. That did not happen until November 30 {http://www.michaeljackson.com/us/news/michael-jacksons-it-dvd-and-blu-ray-release-date-announced}.
Once the DVD release date was made public, the website gave the specifics of what would be included in the additional footage {http://www.thisisitmovieondvd.com/, then click “Special Features” at the top}.
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=1929.0
I'm CERTAINTY NOT attacking TS.
I never said a bad thing against him. I actually said I hope he IS Michael. I hope I am wrong. I love the people here and TS is one of us.
What I am saying is all of the hoax tends to be based upon his "rules" and if I don't follow them or research them, I'm totally lost on the
entire forum. Opening my own thread would lead to being lost as most believe TS is gospel.
I'm just saying, if some of us do NOT fully, entirely give our whole trust in TS, or ANYONE, then we hear things as you wrote.
If I have free will, which I do and do not follow most things now because of this..then I am lost on the whole site.
Yep. That's exactly what happens.
Well there is another major hoax site that has zero TS influence that you could participate on if this is how you feel. I'm not being snotty, I really just don't get it.
I don't understand the complaint. You chose to be here, you chose to participate, yet you have a multitude of complaints about it. I don't understand being unhappy and yet returning time after time again to complain some more and remain so perpetually unhappy by your own doing.
WOW, I"m sorry. Things have changed on here, and I'm trying to understand WHY and why we are so easy to follow the changes. I'm sorry for the "complaints" while I try to understand, learn, ask and investigate. Love u anyhow and I do appreciate your opinion.It matters who one follows. We have to know who's behind.
I can appreciate that, but TS has made it pretty clear that his identity isn't going to be revealed until some later date. That being said, you then have to make a choice; to believe in leu of proof, or that you are not comfortable taking that leap of faith. There is no wrong answer but again we come back to choice.
... I'm not all that interested in TS.http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=5167.msg382238#msg382238
bec, now what makes you think that just because I don't believe in those "insiders", I'm not interested in investigating them?
I am here to investigate and find the truth, not follow some anonymous users because they are good at being cryptic and writing like a horoscope
As long as this is still going on, as long as these people (and who knows, maybe new ones at some point) keep posting, nothing is completely "concluded". I don't know 100 % who is behind those names, as long as I don't know 100 %, I'll keep watching. As far as my time allows me to.
I was looking for this, and i found it, remember what he said TS of the film Este es weeks before it will be released?QuoteTIAI Revealed, Part 6: “This Is It” Movie Rating (R20 - R28)
Part 6 here has to do with the movie, “This Is It”, and also statements that I made about the movie (with username S.T.U.D.Y.) before it came out. I may repost those old S.T.U.D.Y. threads soon in this forum, with some updates, under the “Numbers Theory” section {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/board,14.0.html}.
In addition to my 9-9-09 prediction, I made several other statements about “This Is It” weeks before it came out publicly. Here are a few examples, all stated on 9-18-09; this was more than a month before the release of “This Is It”, and the old MJkit forum still has this thread available to read (dated 9-20-09, because it was reposted on MJkit a couple days after I posted it on MJHD; {http://mjkit.forumotion.net/the-numbers-theory-for-all-theories-regarding-the-numbers-theory-f58/from-mjhd-excellent-the-9-9-09-prediction-did-come-true-this-is-it-settles-the-question-is-mj-alive-t1766.htm}
“Yes, this whole hoax and plan is for a bigger purpose than just exposing the media. It is time for everyone to STUDY peace {http://new.etonline.com/documents/mjackson_funeral_program_et_090409.pdf}: peace in our own lives, and peace in our world.”
“So if an MJ ‘resurrection’ is part of the plan and movie, what day would it be: … During the funeral wouldn’t even fit with the original Thriller, because the dead did not hop out of their caskets during a funeral—no, they came out of their graves. … ‘R’ = MJ Resurrection (9-9-09), MJ Return, MJ hoax Revealed!!! … Let’s see how many ‘R’ votes we can get between now and October 28 …”
Notice here that I connected the “Resurrection” with 9-9-09, which was already 9 days past at that time; so I was not using resurrection in the sense of returning to public view—I used the word “Return” for that. I used the word “resurrection” in the sense of a concept, related to the hoax and especially the Thriller II film segment (graveyard scene, see R20 & R21 below).
As already stated, the cinema version of the movie did “Reveal” the hoax to a degree (no MJ RIP; Smooth Criminal hoax death, hoax death actor in original “Gilda” had same birthday as MJ {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Macready}; and MJ “bam” statement at end, etc). And the home version will reveal it even more (see R20 & R22 below).
Then what about the MJ “Return” to public view, when will that be? Well, the sad thing is that potentially he could’ve returned at Halloween; but we were not ready. We did not understand the NWO conspiracy aspect of the hoax, or the seriousness of it; in fact, the old MJHD was forbidding discussion on this subject! And just a few days later, it went down and was out for about a week. We simply were not ready for MJ to return yet; if he had, in all the excitement, people would’ve had little or no interest in studying into the NWO aspects of the hoax.
Since people were not ready for the MJ return at Halloween: immediately after the TII movie was released, TIAI was set up. The purpose of TIAI was (and still is) to give MJ fans, and especially hoax believers, a better understanding and bigger picture of the hoax and the reasons for it; this in turn would help prepare the way for the MJ “Return”![/size]
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
R20. 2 to 3 Hours of Additional Footage on “THIS IS IT” DVD/Blu-ray
{http://www.collider.com/2009/10/31/exclusive-director-kenny-ortega-says-expect-2-to-3-hours-of-additional-footage-on-this-is-it-dvdblu-ray/}
This was a video clip of an interview with Kenny Ortega, about the fact that the DVD and Blu-ray versions of “This Is It” would have 2 or 3 hours of additional footage. Please notice that this redirect was on November 22, which was a week before the official release date (and specific content) was made public. That did not happen until November 30 {http://www.michaeljackson.com/us/news/michael-jacksons-it-dvd-and-blu-ray-release-date-announced}.
Once the DVD release date was made public, the website gave the specifics of what would be included in the additional footage {http://www.thisisitmovieondvd.com/, then click “Special Features” at the top}.
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=1929.0
Maybe I'm off topic but I would like to point out the red parts in TS' post. As I've said before, I was never a follower of TS, doesn't mean that I assume that he is fake, not at all, but to me it wasn't necessary to follow him to learn more about the hoax. What strikes me as very strange is that TS is saying that WE were not ready for a return, otherwise Michael COULD HAVE returned/bammed at Halloween!!! In 2009!!!! What he is saying that we first had to learn more about NWO aspects of the Hoax. And now, TWO years later, knowing much more about NWO and many many other aspects, are we still not ready??? Ofcourse, there could be many other aspects and problems Michael faced during these past two years, so maybe HE is the one now who is not ready to return (if he will return at all), but that's not what TS implies in his post. He specifically is saying that it's US, WE are not ready.
Maybe I'm reading it all wrong, and I don't want to accuse TS in any way, but I feel this is striking remark of him that contradicts the sequel of the hoax.
I hope members over here are not mad at me for writing this, we agreed that, as long as we discuss things in a respectful way, we could ask anything. Like I've said, I know not too much about TS and maybe he proved himself right for many times now, but this is very odd to me.
Yeah, that's right, I'm not interested in following TS and hanging on every word he says and believing it to be the gospel.
As long as this is still going on, as long as these people (and who knows, maybe new ones at some point) keep posting, nothing is completely "concluded". I don't know 100 % who is behind those names, as long as I don't know 100 %, I'll keep watching. As far as my time allows me to.
Yeah, that's right, I'm not interested in following TS and hanging on every word he says and believing it to be the gospel.
Btw. - whatever happened to level 7?
Btw. - whatever happened to level 7?
Yeah, that's right, I'm not interested in following TS and hanging on every word he says and believing it to be the gospel.
But you do follow him.
As long as this is still going on, as long as these people (and who knows, maybe new ones at some point) keep posting, nothing is completely "concluded". I don't know 100 % who is behind those names, as long as I don't know 100 %, I'll keep watching. As far as my time allows me to.
So you do admit that you believe there is a possibility that TS is legitimate. So then why all the animosity? How does arguing about it help you discover the truth about his identity?
Again I agree with what Bec has said and this is worth considering:QuoteI do strongly believe that we all need to seriously consider the possibility that Michael Jackson is absolutely nothing like the person we believed him to be for our entire lives.I will just let it go and wait for things unfold itself. One thing is clear- WE HAVE BEEN HERE TO "INVESTIGATE"= FIND OUT WHETHER MJ IS ALIVE-IF SO , HOW HE DID IT; IF DEAD- WHO DID IT. THEN HOAX INVESTIGATION TURNS OUT TO BE DIFFICULT AND TO KEEP FAITH AND HOAX GOING, A NEW THEORY HAS DEVELOPED:GOD, BIBLE,ETC.
MICHAEL'S BELIEVE IN GOD AND HIS MESSAGE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HOAX AND REAL REASONS BEHIND IT. IF MJ KILLED IS ABOUT MONEY, IF MJ IS ALIVE AND HOXING, IT IS ABOUT REVENGE & THREAT TO LIFE.
AS FOR TS, WHETHER HE IS TOM SIMKIN OR NOT, TO ME HE IS NOT MICHAEL NOR HIS INSIDER, NEVER WAS. THIS IS NOT A BIG NEWS FOR ME, BUT IT IS NOT AN HONEST GAME TO ONES WHO BELIEVED HE IS MJ OR "HIRED" BY MJ.
You shouldn’t assume that someone is being dishonest. Where is the PROOF for this? Maybe you should wait and see. Many people here and myself included are not Christians, some are atheists as Bec freely admits so if people really do feel excluded from these kind of discussions then as suggested people are free to start their own threads with topics that interest them.
Concerning Michael’s real message behind the Hoax we don’t know anything for sure but we have a number of theories and this spiritual message seems to be an important part of the Hoax as Michael has always been very spiritual himself and the Bible was always an important part of his life.
@ Anna, no one is saying you don't belong here, just that if you don't agree with the TS discussions that you can discuss what is important to you in your own threads with others who also don't believe in TS.
As I read in this entire forum and elsewhere I realize that some people have made of Michael their "god" because they want him to be ALL LOVING, ALL FORGIVING, ALL EVERYthing... he is not allowed to be a human being with preferences, personal beliefs, personal choices, feelings. That's one big problem that I see here.
@Sarah31 At this stage in the Hoax what do people expect if not whispers and "cryptic" messages? Do they expect everything to be spelled out in Black & White? Come on people! There is a right time for all to be revealed. Until then some of us appreciate and understand those whispers from behind the curtain. If whispers and cryptic messages are not for you, there is no need to ridicule and be sarcastic. Again, don't read Front's/TS's posts. It's simple.
Who critiques something who hasn't even bothered to read and re-read something in its entirety? That's like tabloid trash!/bravo/
p.s.: If you are trying to cast doubt on TS yet again regarding level 7, it's not going to work, because some of us realize that TS like the rest of us is human and also Michael's Hoax is complicated and complex. So we are being patient.
@ Sarah31 You seem irritated and annoyed by the "cryptic" messages. So don't read them. Keep your peace.
:shock: Oh my pokes mean “fuck you” WTF?? :shock: Geez that sucks. One day I looked up and had 20. I thought they were good things. Matter-of-fact I have 2 now :lol: I must really be rubbing somebody the wrong way. Oh well, heck can’t win em all. beerchug
In my personal opinion, more would be accomplished if doubters simply went elsewhere more to their liking, or observed quietly while serious students of TS/Front tried to analyze their posts relating to Michael and hoax events as they unfold. There is so much more to be uncoded and discussed.
Really, I don't think I should feel like I should leave because I don't agree to give my 100% loyalty to TS or anyone aside from Michael. Really, do you think it right to suggest to to so? There have been informers come and go, and really we've wondered if TS was gone most of the time. I've been here almost since the beginning and have posted more than TS, so should I be more believable? Should some of YOU who have intense wonderful...deep, honest and provable thoughts?
I have tried to just remain in the background and not get involved or comment, but is that WHY I came here? I needed all of you to fulfill my belief in Michael being alive. It's you comment that makes me feel that that is all there is to the forum now. Go elsewhere (this site was here before TS involvement, but some don't agree totally now, so leave if we don't ???) or...let SERIOUS students investigate. Really, we are not serious if we don't....
Truly, I don't want to go. None of us do or we'd have done it. We want to investigate, and by looking into who some of you consider the basis for our investigation we ARE still investigating.
Do, in your TS posts.
I agree that TS is saying that by and large many hoaxers on this site are not ready for MJ's return because they haven’t bothered to read his posts, to even begin to understand the reasons for the hoax and the nature of his return and BAM, relating to the EOW and NOW. And yes, I agree this hoax parallels OTHER things in history, many things, because it is a genius masterful plan, channelled from God, IMO. This is it! On so many levels.
Who critiques something who hasn't even bothered to read and re-read something in its entirety? That's like tabloid trash!
:shock: Oh my pokes mean “fuck you” WTF?? :shock: Geez that sucks. One day I looked up and had 20. I thought they were good things. Matter-of-fact I have 2 now :lol: I must really be rubbing somebody the wrong way. Oh well, heck can’t win em all. beerchug
Fordtocarr, I seriously don't want to upset you or anybody who is upset about TS or the religious discussions. It's just we seem to be coming to this crossroads so many times now. It's like a major road-block or obstacle that is disrupting this forum. This thread could go to 100 pages, and accomplish what exactly. More tortured minds. And I don't want to add to Gina's torture, at least she has a way out, watching MJ videos ;) . Hi Gina!
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-xH1tkMkj4Qw/TZ78aVeoBLI/AAAAAAAAAA4/GchMDYfSb8g/s1600/crossroads.jpg)
:shock: Oh my pokes mean “fuck you” WTF?? :shock: Geez that sucks. One day I looked up and had 20. I thought they were good things. Matter-of-fact I have 2 now :lol: I must really be rubbing somebody the wrong way. Oh well, heck can’t win em all. beerchug
Wow, that's putting a new edge to pokes! I looked up at mine, and noticed I had from Sarahli and Wishingstar! They have got to be using their Jupiter finger! :lol:
@ Sarah31 You seem irritated and annoyed by the "cryptic" messages. So don't read them. Keep your peace.
I'm not irritated, I just see that you can always read into them whatever you want. So the interpretations that people agree on on this forum is not the only way to interpret them. That's all I'm saying.
But it could be that Michael wants to remain hidden behind TS/Front and have the reaction of doubters.
:shock: Oh my pokes mean “fuck you” WTF?? :shock: Geez that sucks. One day I looked up and had 20. I thought they were good things. Matter-of-fact I have 2 now :lol: I must really be rubbing somebody the wrong way. Oh well, heck can’t win em all. beerchug
@ Sarah31 You seem irritated and annoyed by the "cryptic" messages. So don't read them. Keep your peace.
I'm not irritated, I just see that you can always read into them whatever you want. So the interpretations that people agree on on this forum is not the only way to interpret them. That's all I'm saying.
Of course it's not... have you noticed I'm almost always against the grain on TS stuff? I post counter-interpretations and give TS a hard time ALL THE TIME.
Because I straight up don't see it the way the majority does or the way TS explains it sometimes. I disagree. So I post about it. A lot. And I get attacked for it too, sometimes.
Like Bec says "Why are we fighting ?" We shouldn't be arguing among ourselves. I don't know about all of you but I joined this in order to help "Heal The World". I always loved Michael and have been a big fan and wanted to find out the truth about what happened to him but then I saw there was also a higher purpose to this.
No matter what religion you are or aren't you have to admit that the world is in very sad shape. The only way to save/heal the world is to have everyone united. The illuminati, TPTB, military-industrial complex, or whatever you want to call them have used war, religion, money, propoganda, media to separate us.
There are serious issues going on in the world and the illuminati, New World Order is not a joke. I took the time to read and investigate all this year on many different sources. People are suffering all around the world due to corrupt corporations such as the big pharma companies, The Federal Reserve banking system, secret societies, and more.
Maybe Michael is using his celebrity status to WAKE PEOPLE UP and discover the truth about what is going on. Why do you think they wanted to take him down so bad ? They don't want us to know the truth and they don't want us united and they know Michael has billions of fans.
I think the TS/front/back/STUDY mystery will work itself out. Obviously they/he is knowledgeable and authentic and has a plan. They/he have to be subtle for a reason and part of it is a learning experience. Let's spread information, and love to help Heal the World. Who else is going to do it ???????
@ Sarah31 You seem irritated and annoyed by the "cryptic" messages. So don't read them. Keep your peace.
I'm not irritated, I just see that you can always read into them whatever you want. So the interpretations that people agree on on this forum is not the only way to interpret them. That's all I'm saying.
Of course it's not... have you noticed I'm almost always against the grain on TS stuff? I post counter-interpretations and give TS a hard time ALL THE TIME.
Because I straight up don't see it the way the majority does or the way TS explains it sometimes. I disagree. So I post about it. A lot. And I get attacked for it too, sometimes.
If you reread the last couple of posts I wasn't talking about TS' cryptic posts here, I was talking about Front. Never saw you question his cryptic message or pointing out that they coud mean the total opposite.
So what, bec? The people who believe in TS also believe that TS and Front are linked and TS clearly wants to be linked to Front. Some people even believe they are the same person.
Also, you yourself said that Front explained the thing with level 7 (which means you link them too), that's what started this line of the discussion.
This is something Michael said about God. It's a huge different approach than what we've seen from TS/ Tim Simkin. To me it is a huge difference. That's what I'm trying to explain when I insist about being fed religion doctrines.
Michael sees God as the source of creation, not as Bible quotes and doctrines and literal Bible study.
"It's strange that God doesn't mind expressing Himself/Herself in all the religions of the world, while people still cling to the notion that their way is the only right way. Whatever you try to say about God, someone will take offense, even if you say everyone's love of God is right for them.
For me the form God takes is not the most important thing. What's most important is the essence. My songs and dances are outlines for Him to come in and fill. I hold out the form. She puts in the sweetness.
I've looked up at the night sky and beheld the stars so intimately close, it was as if my grandmother had made them for me.
"How rich, how sumptuous," I thought. In that moment I saw God in His creation. I could as easily have seen Her in the beauty of a rainbow, the grace of a deer bounding through a meadow, the truth of a father's kiss. But for me the sweetest contact with God has no form.
I close my eyes, look within, and enter a deep soft silence.
The infinity of God's creation embraces me. We are one.
Written By: Michael Jackson"
Anna, am I right in thinking you're not a Christian nor have been raised with hearing a lot of Christian teaching and messages? Now when I read all this stuff and hear the audio again of this Tim Simkin, I'm hearing, reading a totally different person than our TS. He has a different way of talking and passion. One of the biggest things that unites Back, Front, TS and Michael for me, is their unusual usage of the name of Jesus. It is NEVER in the sense of worshipping him, spreading the gospel of Jesus, encouraging people to trust in Jesus, that Jesus did miracles, or was even God, for that matter. Back puts Michael on the same level as Jesus, Michael said he wanted to be like Jesus only in the sense of being kind especially to children, and his lyrics imply that he replaces Jesus in the sense that he/MJ is the light of the world, will answer our prayers, is the chosen one, etc. This Tim Simkin sounds to me like hundreds of Christian speakers that I have listened to, with just another plan to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the world. As he writes under his heading (that you pointed out) of "And then shall the end come".
I totally agree with you MJonmind. I also think that Tim Simkin is a very traditional kind of Christian. When T.S, Front, Back and Michael speak about God and Jesus in a very different way. In my opinion someone like Tim Simkin will not allow himself to compare Michael to Jesus and call him the light of the world, even for the sake of getting people into his group. For him Jesus is an unearthly holy creature who in no way could be compared to a pop star, even the greatest in the world.
I understand you Anna, there is a lot of mystery surrounding these guys and we are all looking for the answers, i just don't think that the answer is that simple.
Matt. 5:14-16: "Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven."
This is something Michael said about God. It's a huge different approach than what we've seen from TS/ Tim Simkin. To me it is a huge difference. That's what I'm trying to explain when I insist about being fed religion doctrines.
Michael sees God as the source of creation, not as Bible quotes and doctrines and literal Bible study.
"It's strange that God doesn't mind expressing Himself/Herself in all the religions of the world, while people still cling to the notion that their way is the only right way. Whatever you try to say about God, someone will take offense, even if you say everyone's love of God is right for them.
For me the form God takes is not the most important thing. What's most important is the essence. My songs and dances are outlines for Him to come in and fill. I hold out the form. She puts in the sweetness.
I've looked up at the night sky and beheld the stars so intimately close, it was as if my grandmother had made them for me.
"How rich, how sumptuous," I thought. In that moment I saw God in His creation. I could as easily have seen Her in the beauty of a rainbow, the grace of a deer bounding through a meadow, the truth of a father's kiss. But for me the sweetest contact with God has no form.
I close my eyes, look within, and enter a deep soft silence.
The infinity of God's creation embraces me. We are one.
Written By: Michael Jackson"
As far as I can tell, this was written in 1992, so MJ's religious viewpoints could have changed in 20 years. We just don't know.
Well, he was at the KH into the 2000's. To me...the years after disassociation he was sort of lost and searching for God outside of
the JW's. If he went back, which we know he did, then he must have held his beliefs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5BqKgPHYRQ
[....]I think one of the main reasons of the hoax is to increase spirituality and a spiritual awakening. You say he never had a project, but maybe This Is It ? It seems like a life long mission to me, that's just my impression. Also on one of the threads about the arc of the covenant, someone said that both Elvis and Michael were priests. I don't know but I think this could be a possibility and maybe they were chosen by God for a special purpose/mission. [...]Priscilla also said that if Elvis hadn't been a singer, he would have made a good preacher.... She said he often used to preach to his family and friends in his very natural funny way....
@Sim..I can't tell you how many times you made me smile today (and sometimes LOL)...love ya sis! ::P
But WTF?? is 'Fata Morgana'? :lol:
Wise words:
Ezekiel 12:2 ~ "Son of man, you are living among a rebellious people. They have eyes to see but do not see and ears to hear but do not hear, for they are a rebellious people"
This is ALL a part of HIStory...and we've got a FRONT-row seat watching it unfold ::P
With L.O.V.E. always.
After reading 6 pages of comments it's become clear that there are members who are genuinely cautious and skeptical...but there are others who are openly cynical. There is a huge difference between the two. It boggles my mind that there seems to be some that discount the message(s) delivered by our "informers"...they claim it suspect and are now even likening it to brainwashing. Yet in some of the comments you can clearly see that if it were to suddenly be revealed concretely as coming from Michael...then presto-chango...it's all good. What good is it really if you only accept the message because you like, love (or in some cases are obsessed with) the messenger? Wouldn't that mean you have totally missed the point IN the message? A healthy dose of skepticism is never a bad thing...any dose of cynicism is never good.
After reading 6 pages of comments it's become clear that there are members who are genuinely cautious and skeptical...but there are others who are openly cynical. There is a huge difference between the two. It boggles my mind that there seems to be some that discount the message(s) delivered by our "informers"...they claim it suspect and are now even likening it to brainwashing. Yet in some of the comments you can clearly see that if it were to suddenly be revealed concretely as coming from Michael...then presto-chango...it's all good. What good is it really if you only accept the message because you like, love (or in some cases are obsessed with) the messenger? Wouldn't that mean you have totally missed the point IN the message? A healthy dose of skepticism is never a bad thing...any dose of cynicism is never good.
After reading 6 pages of comments it's become clear that there are members who are genuinely cautious and skeptical...but there are others who are openly cynical. There is a huge difference between the two. It boggles my mind that there seems to be some that discount the message(s) delivered by our "informers"...they claim it suspect and are now even likening it to brainwashing. Yet in some of the comments you can clearly see that if it were to suddenly be revealed concretely as coming from Michael...then presto-chango...it's all good. What good is it really if you only accept the message because you like, love (or in some cases are obsessed with) the messenger? Wouldn't that mean you have totally missed the point IN the message? A healthy dose of skepticism is never a bad thing...any dose of cynicism is never good.
/bravo/
What good is it really if you only accept the message because you like, love the messenger?So what do you mean, that I should accept the message of someone I don't like, love or respect afraid/?? Get out of here :o ;D crash/!
PS: @Michael - if you want now to be loved just for your brain and messages- you shouldn't worry you beautiful one - it is obvious it takes a lot of brains to be so sexy
Not kidding.
And on that wonderful note...it's off to dreamland for me (http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/Smileys/default/in_bed_SMILEY.gif)
Wishing you ALL a good nite...filled with the sweetest of dreams.With L.O.V.E. always.
After reading 6 pages of comments it's become clear that there are members who are genuinely cautious and skeptical...but there are others who are openly cynical. There is a huge difference between the two.
lmao :lol: :lol:Quote from: SimpattyK[...]@Sim..I can't tell you how many times you made me smile today (and sometimes LOL)...love ya sis! ::P
And I am talking only about my personal experience, but there are so many people here who also did their own research, the also checked info, searched for clues and realized that the only answer is this: TS' information is authentic! BECAUSE:
Numbers & DNA don't lie!
Logic is flawless!
Family "slip-ups" are blatant!
Twitter is not Fata Morgana!
Coincidences don't just exist!
Clues are abundant!
[...]
But WTF?? is 'Fata Morgana'? :lol:
[....]
By the way, TS already addressed this issue in the last update:QuoteFor your information: I am familiar with the STUDY website. Does this mean that it is me, my website? Maybe; or maybe it’s someone I know; or maybe that website was used as a decoy. Regardless of which is the actual case: you are being tested, to see whether you can unbiasedly assess evidence based upon the evidence itself—and not on who the evidence came from, or who you think it came from, etc.
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=11061.0 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=11061.0)
If one assumes TS is not MJ, then TS might be anybody.
Then, if one assumes TS/TIAI is part of the hoax, then MJ had to get to know/hire/use this someone (Mr.Mysterious, Mr.Smith, Mr.Simkin or whatever his name is) as long as "Mr.Mysterious" was capable of working/helping him with the hoax.
This is the way I look at it.
After reading 6 pages of comments it's become clear that there are members who are genuinely cautious and skeptical...but there are others who are openly cynical. There is a huge difference between the two.
Yes, that's how it is Love4Michael.
I really hope I'm now thrown in the same bucket. I tried to make it clear from the very beginning and I hope people understand, noticing from everyone's way of talking, and notice the difference between the way I bring up the discussion, or the way others bring up the discussion.
I want this thread to stay open for us, who genuinely need some answers, who are not here to stir shit and then be entertained by it. This is not a "TS/TIAI bash thread", it's a "TS/TIAI discussion thread". Maybe the ones who want to be sarcastic and throw shit just for their "entertainment" can open a separate thread for it.
Some of us do want serious debate and real talk. I hope you understand.
This is something Michael said about God. It's a huge different approach than what we've seen from TS/ Tim Simkin. To me it is a huge difference. That's what I'm trying to explain when I insist about being fed religion doctrines.
Michael sees God as the source of creation, not as Bible quotes and doctrines and literal Bible study.
"It's strange that God doesn't mind expressing Himself/Herself in all the religions of the world, while people still cling to the notion that their way is the only right way. Whatever you try to say about God, someone will take offense, even if you say everyone's love of God is right for them.
For me the form God takes is not the most important thing. What's most important is the essence. My songs and dances are outlines for Him to come in and fill. I hold out the form. She puts in the sweetness.
I've looked up at the night sky and beheld the stars so intimately close, it was as if my grandmother had made them for me.
"How rich, how sumptuous," I thought. In that moment I saw God in His creation. I could as easily have seen Her in the beauty of a rainbow, the grace of a deer bounding through a meadow, the truth of a father's kiss. But for me the sweetest contact with God has no form.
I close my eyes, look within, and enter a deep soft silence.
The infinity of God's creation embraces me. We are one.
Written By: Michael Jackson"
I was looking for this, and i found it, remember what he said TS of the film Este es weeks before it will be released?QuoteTIAI Revealed, Part 6: “This Is It” Movie Rating (R20 - R28)
Part 6 here has to do with the movie, “This Is It”, and also statements that I made about the movie (with username S.T.U.D.Y.) before it came out. I may repost those old S.T.U.D.Y. threads soon in this forum, with some updates, under the “Numbers Theory” section {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/board,14.0.html}.
In addition to my 9-9-09 prediction, I made several other statements about “This Is It” weeks before it came out publicly. Here are a few examples, all stated on 9-18-09; this was more than a month before the release of “This Is It”, and the old MJkit forum still has this thread available to read (dated 9-20-09, because it was reposted on MJkit a couple days after I posted it on MJHD; {http://mjkit.forumotion.net/the-numbers-theory-for-all-theories-regarding-the-numbers-theory-f58/from-mjhd-excellent-the-9-9-09-prediction-did-come-true-this-is-it-settles-the-question-is-mj-alive-t1766.htm}
“Yes, this whole hoax and plan is for a bigger purpose than just exposing the media. It is time for everyone to STUDY peace {http://new.etonline.com/documents/mjackson_funeral_program_et_090409.pdf}: peace in our own lives, and peace in our world.”
“So if an MJ ‘resurrection’ is part of the plan and movie, what day would it be: … During the funeral wouldn’t even fit with the original Thriller, because the dead did not hop out of their caskets during a funeral—no, they came out of their graves. … ‘R’ = MJ Resurrection (9-9-09), MJ Return, MJ hoax Revealed!!! … Let’s see how many ‘R’ votes we can get between now and October 28 …”
Notice here that I connected the “Resurrection” with 9-9-09, which was already 9 days past at that time; so I was not using resurrection in the sense of returning to public view—I used the word “Return” for that. I used the word “resurrection” in the sense of a concept, related to the hoax and especially the Thriller II film segment (graveyard scene, see R20 & R21 below).
As already stated, the cinema version of the movie did “Reveal” the hoax to a degree (no MJ RIP; Smooth Criminal hoax death, hoax death actor in original “Gilda” had same birthday as MJ {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Macready}; and MJ “bam” statement at end, etc). And the home version will reveal it even more (see R20 & R22 below).
Then what about the MJ “Return” to public view, when will that be? Well, the sad thing is that potentially he could’ve returned at Halloween; but we were not ready. We did not understand the NWO conspiracy aspect of the hoax, or the seriousness of it; in fact, the old MJHD was forbidding discussion on this subject! And just a few days later, it went down and was out for about a week. We simply were not ready for MJ to return yet; if he had, in all the excitement, people would’ve had little or no interest in studying into the NWO aspects of the hoax.
Since people were not ready for the MJ return at Halloween: immediately after the TII movie was released, TIAI was set up. The purpose of TIAI was (and still is) to give MJ fans, and especially hoax believers, a better understanding and bigger picture of the hoax and the reasons for it; this in turn would help prepare the way for the MJ “Return”![/size]
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R20. 2 to 3 Hours of Additional Footage on “THIS IS IT” DVD/Blu-ray
{http://www.collider.com/2009/10/31/exclusive-director-kenny-ortega-says-expect-2-to-3-hours-of-additional-footage-on-this-is-it-dvdblu-ray/}
This was a video clip of an interview with Kenny Ortega, about the fact that the DVD and Blu-ray versions of “This Is It” would have 2 or 3 hours of additional footage. Please notice that this redirect was on November 22, which was a week before the official release date (and specific content) was made public. That did not happen until November 30 {http://www.michaeljackson.com/us/news/michael-jacksons-it-dvd-and-blu-ray-release-date-announced}.
Once the DVD release date was made public, the website gave the specifics of what would be included in the additional footage {http://www.thisisitmovieondvd.com/, then click “Special Features” at the top}.
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=1929.0
Maybe I'm off topic but I would like to point out the red parts in TS' post. As I've said before, I was never a follower of TS, doesn't mean that I assume that he is fake, not at all, but to me it wasn't necessary to follow him to learn more about the hoax. What strikes me as very strange is that TS is saying that WE were not ready for a return, otherwise Michael COULD HAVE returned/bammed at Halloween!!! In 2009!!!! What he is saying that we first had to learn more about NWO aspects of the Hoax. And now, TWO years later, knowing much more about NWO and many many other aspects, are we still not ready??? Ofcourse, there could be many other aspects and problems Michael faced during these past two years, so maybe HE is the one now who is not ready to return (if he will return at all), but that's not what TS implies in his post. He specifically is saying that it's US, WE are not ready.
Maybe I'm reading it all wrong, and I don't want to accuse TS in any way, but I feel this is striking remark of him that contradicts the sequel of the hoax.
I hope members over here are not mad at me for writing this, we agreed that, as long as we discuss things in a respectful way, we could ask anything. Like I've said, I know not too much about TS and maybe he proved himself right for many times now, but this is very odd to me.
I'm pretty sure that TS is an ARG. I'm pretty sure there are fictional aspects to it. You could call this rectifying a hole in a theory if you like, but there are many other examples, that I see besides the one you provided, that point toward this possibility. I think there is a story line, for us, that runs parallel to the truth in this whole thing. Similar to how for non-believers, the "death" is the fictional aspect running parallel to the truth, hoaxers have their own fictional story running parallel. How much is fiction and how much is real is really confusing, I believe it is intertwined in complex fashion, similar to how court [almost had to be] both real and staged at the same time. I think it's very difficult to separate the truth from the fiction story but this is part of the game. I don't believe TS is handing out hoax truths on a silver platter. I think you have to dig for it. I think this is also part of the game. Do you believe based on the source? Or do you believe based on the information.
Yes, but it’s ‘Come to me (Michael)’, and not Jesus. Slight but BIG difference.How many other people out there do you see putting themselves on the same level as Jesus, who are not in a mental institution? Michael is telling the truth or he’s deranged. People are clinging to understanding of Scriptures that may be meant for the first century, but not in 2000’s.
1 Corinthians 3:2-5 (ERV)
2 And the teaching I gave you was like milk, not solid food. I did this because you were not ready for solid food. And even now you are not ready. 3 You are still not following the Spirit. You are jealous of each other, and you are always arguing with each other. This shows that you are still following your own selfish desires. You are acting like ordinary people of the world. 4 One of you says, “I follow Paul,” and someone else says, “I follow Apollos.” When you say things like that, you are acting like people of the world.
5 Is Apollos so important? Is Paul so important? We are only servants of God who helped you believe. Each one of us did the work God gave us to do.
MESSAGE TO THE FANS, FROM MR. JOSEPH JACKSON AND MR. MAJESTIK MAGNIFICENT:
MAY 10, 2010
It has recently come to our attention that Conrad Murray supporters will be demonstrating at the preliminary hearing, June 14th at the Superior Court of Los Angeles, much like Michael’s supporters have always done. This is their right just as it is ours.
We would like to urge fans that are planning to attend to please do so in peace, unity, and love for Michael. There should be NO violence, NO slander, NO yelling, and NO bad-mouthing or name-calling of Murray or his supporters. This reflects negatively on Michael. He would not support this type of behavior. The press called Michael names that were undeserved and hurtful. By acting out and creating chaos, our message can not be heard or is overshadowed by our behavior. By calling names, we are lowering ourselves to their level. That would only contribute to the filthy tabloid gossip. Michael deserved better than that. We must honor him, his wishes, and his message of peace and compassion, even in the face of opposition. Both sides can peacefully co-exist and let the justice be served inside the courtroom, just as it has been before.
Please ignore their signs, actions and words. DO NOT acknowledge their presence, IGNORE them completely, and certainly do not respond to anything they have to say. DO NOT let them bait you into an argument or lashing out to defend Michael. That is what they want. Our protest should be silent. We do not want to draw any attention to them at all. The world needs to see Michael’s light shining through all of you instead.
Our message is much bigger, better, and more dignified by not using slanderous or vulgar words. Your respect will make a much larger statement that will be revered instead of criticized. Their behavior toward a silent prayer vigil will only make them look bad. They cannot fight if there is no one to fight with. Do not give them the fuel for their fire.
Please do not even acknowledge their banners. Our banners will stay the same: “Justice for Michael”. We all have a common, unifying mission, which is JUSTICE FOR MICHAEL. We do not have to respond to them at all, because Conrad Murray supporters are not on the side of righteousness or justice, they are wrong, and right will prevail.
This is much deeper than just a demonstration. This will go down in history. Whatever your actions are that day, will be part of Michael’s legacy. When people look back on this day we want them to remember Michael, not Conrad Murray. Michael Jackson supporters are not to be looked down on as crazed fanatics, but as crusaders for peace and love. This is what Michael Jackson is, was, and always will be. It is what he believed in and stood for. We are HIS voice, representing HIM.
Martin Luther King Jr. said,
“A riot is the language of the unheard. All labor that uplifts humanity has dignity. Importance should be undertaken with painstaking excellence. We must love our enemies – or else? The chain reaction of evil – hate begetting hate”
MICHAEL IS LOVE AND PEACE, NOT HATE! This is the message we must unite to send to the world.
You have caught the attention of the entire world; you represent their conscience and inspiration. This is your chance to impact Michael’s legacy and reputation for generations to come. We must stand together to honor him. We can shut them out completely and let our message speak for itself. The most powerful impact you can have in carrying on his legacy, is spreading his peace and love. Our silent protest and prayer vigil will be seen and felt the world over. Make Michael proud!
THANK YOU, AND GOD BLESS YOU ALL!
Mr. Joseph Jackson, and Mr. Majestik Magnificent
[/color][/color][/size][/b][/i][/size]Yes, but it’s ‘Come to me (Michael)’, and not Jesus. Slight but BIG difference.How many other people out there do you see putting themselves on the same level as Jesus, who are not in a mental institution? Michael is telling the truth or he’s deranged. People are clinging to understanding of Scriptures that may be meant for the first century, but not in 2000’s.
More accurately I think the messge is "Follow me; Come to God", especially after stumbling upon the following; see if it reminds you of a particular person(s):Quote1 Corinthians 3:2-5 (ERV)
2 And the teaching I gave you was like milk, not solid food. I did this because you were not ready for solid food. And even now you are not ready. 3 You are still not following the Spirit. You are jealous of each other, and you are always arguing with each other. This shows that you are still following your own selfish desires. You are acting like ordinary people of the world. 4 One of you says, “I follow Paul,” and someone else says, “I follow Apollos.” When you say things like that, you are acting like people of the world.
5 Is Apollos so important? Is Paul so important? We are only servants of God who helped you believe. Each one of us did the work God gave us to do.
TS telling us we're not ready, some strictly choosing one messenger over another, the purpose of our many messengers. In the end, the person who delivered the message does not matter as most of us have come to realize. What Michael has been conveying in his songs is the same thing TS has posted about: TPTB don't care about us, we've got to unite, be soldiers of L.O.V.E. I repeat: he's been saying this way before TS. We don't have to look any further than "All in Your Name". That is Michael singing, isn't it? Barry Gibb posted the video on his YouTube channel and the video description says this: " 'All in Your Name' is infact the message that Michael wanted to send out to all of his fans all over the World [...]" The whole song is littered with biblical allusions, but did anyone catch this lyric: "Follow me to the gates of paradise", in other words "heaven", the shamayim. The "gates of paradise" is synonymous with "house of god" (Genesis 28:17).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ruo8JetOex8
If Michael really held on to the beliefs of the bible, then he doesn't want people idolizing him, a mere human. He's trying to lead them to love and truth which, by the bible's definition, is leading people to God. (John 14:6, 1 John 4:8') . The more I read of the bible, the more parallels I see, even to the Justice4MJ group.
Remember the letter Majestik Magnificent wrote to them?QuoteMESSAGE TO THE FANS, FROM MR. JOSEPH JACKSON AND MR. MAJESTIK MAGNIFICENT:
MAY 10, 2010
It has recently come to our attention that Conrad Murray supporters will be demonstrating at the preliminary hearing, June 14th at the Superior Court of Los Angeles, much like Michael’s supporters have always done. This is their right just as it is ours.
We would like to urge fans that are planning to attend to please do so in peace, unity, and love for Michael. There should be NO violence, NO slander, NO yelling, and NO bad-mouthing or name-calling of Murray or his supporters. This reflects negatively on Michael. He would not support this type of behavior. The press called Michael names that were undeserved and hurtful. By acting out and creating chaos, our message can not be heard or is overshadowed by our behavior. By calling names, we are lowering ourselves to their level. That would only contribute to the filthy tabloid gossip. Michael deserved better than that. We must honor him, his wishes, and his message of peace and compassion, even in the face of opposition. Both sides can peacefully co-exist and let the justice be served inside the courtroom, just as it has been before.
Please ignore their signs, actions and words. DO NOT acknowledge their presence, IGNORE them completely, and certainly do not respond to anything they have to say. DO NOT let them bait you into an argument or lashing out to defend Michael. That is what they want. Our protest should be silent. We do not want to draw any attention to them at all. The world needs to see Michael’s light shining through all of you instead.
Our message is much bigger, better, and more dignified by not using slanderous or vulgar words. Your respect will make a much larger statement that will be revered instead of criticized. Their behavior toward a silent prayer vigil will only make them look bad. They cannot fight if there is no one to fight with. Do not give them the fuel for their fire.
Please do not even acknowledge their banners. Our banners will stay the same: “Justice for Michael”. We all have a common, unifying mission, which is JUSTICE FOR MICHAEL. We do not have to respond to them at all, because Conrad Murray supporters are not on the side of righteousness or justice, they are wrong, and right will prevail.
This is much deeper than just a demonstration. This will go down in history. Whatever your actions are that day, will be part of Michael’s legacy. When people look back on this day we want them to remember Michael, not Conrad Murray. Michael Jackson supporters are not to be looked down on as crazed fanatics, but as crusaders for peace and love. This is what Michael Jackson is, was, and always will be. It is what he believed in and stood for. We are HIS voice, representing HIM.
Martin Luther King Jr. said,
“A riot is the language of the unheard. All labor that uplifts humanity has dignity. Importance should be undertaken with painstaking excellence. We must love our enemies – or else? The chain reaction of evil – hate begetting hate”
MICHAEL IS LOVE AND PEACE, NOT HATE! This is the message we must unite to send to the world.
You have caught the attention of the entire world; you represent their conscience and inspiration. This is your chance to impact Michael’s legacy and reputation for generations to come. We must stand together to honor him. We can shut them out completely and let our message speak for itself. The most powerful impact you can have in carrying on his legacy, is spreading his peace and love. Our silent protest and prayer vigil will be seen and felt the world over. Make Michael proud!
THANK YOU, AND GOD BLESS YOU ALL!
Mr. Joseph Jackson, and Mr. Majestik Magnificent
To name a few: Galatians 3:28, Colossians 3:8, 2 Corinthians 5:20, Matthew 5:14, Hebrews 12:14, Ephesians 4:2-6 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians%203:28,%20Colossians%203:8,%202%20Corinthians%205:20,%20Matthew%205:14-16,%20Hebrews%2012:14,%20Ephesians%202:19-22,%204:2-6%20&version=NIV;AMP)
Melody I think you have some profound thoughts and connections there.
I agree there are lessons to be learned and this is one of the goals of MJ's hoax. I agree MJ is trying to coax people into learning these lessons and choosing a more positive path for their lives (and by doing so, change the world one person at a time). I agree that some will learn these lessons the hard way. I am able to recognize that TS is an attempt to give a heads up to a select group, who differentiated THEMSELVES by virtue of their beliefs and choosing wisely, and having strength and conviction of character, confidence in self, and being able to properly determine BS from Truth. I see a parallel between God's warning to the Israelites to smear the blood of the lamb on their doorstep to protect themselves from the curse of first born male death that one night... and TS's repeated guidance to us. Perhaps I'm making connections where there are none, but I figure there's no harm in it if I'm wrong.
Majestic's letter to the fans was an eye opener for me, as it subtlety supported this theory that until then was merely a hunch or gut feeling regarding the TINI group (<---lesson to be learned the HARD way).
Everyone made a choice which path to go down following 6/25/09. There were limitless options but people tend to band together with others like-minded so distinct groups formed. Free will, everyone got to chose... and we still are making that choice, every day. You still get to decide, every day is a new day, every clue is an opportunity to change course. Majestic's letter was an example of a clue planted as one more opportunity to change course for those who initially selected a negative path.
You got to give MJ credit, he never quits trying to show his fans the light. He really has never given up on them.
In my personal opinion, more would be accomplished if doubters simply went elsewhere more to their liking, or observed quietly while serious students of TS/Front tried to analyze their posts relating to Michael and hoax events as they unfold. There is so much more to be uncoded and discussed.
Do, in your TS posts.
I agree that TS is saying that by and large many hoaxers on this site are not ready for MJ's return because they haven’t bothered to read his posts, to even begin to understand the reasons for the hoax and the nature of his return and BAM, relating to the EOW and NOW. And yes, I agree this hoax parallels OTHER things in history, many things, because it is a genius masterful plan, channelled from God, IMO. This is it! On so many levels.
Who critiques something who hasn't even bothered to read and re-read something in its entirety? That's like tabloid trash!
@Sim....thank you for your wonderful explanation of "Fata Morgana"...makes perfect sense to me now ::P (and you've described the current 'situation' perfectly)(http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Amour/chirolp_wkiss2.gif)
OK....another Wishingstar moment.............lmao :lol: :lol: :lol: you just killed me !!! you're ma' lil' sis' (http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Amour/0033.gif)
I thought Fata Morgana had to do with The Little Mermaid 2.......OMGosh, ever feel so dumb your knees are numb? Good thing I can laugh at myself........
(http://images.wikia.com/disney/images/0/07/MorganaDisneyLittleMermaid.jpg)
http://disney.wikia.com/wiki/Morgana
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Blessings
Who critiques something who hasn't even bothered to read and re-read something in its entirety? That's like tabloid trash!
I was looking for this, and i found it, remember what he said TS of the film Este es weeks before it will be released?QuoteTIAI Revealed, Part 6: “This Is It” Movie Rating (R20 - R28)
Part 6 here has to do with the movie, “This Is It”, and also statements that I made about the movie (with username S.T.U.D.Y.) before it came out. I may repost those old S.T.U.D.Y. threads soon in this forum, with some updates, under the “Numbers Theory” section {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/board,14.0.html}.
In addition to my 9-9-09 prediction, I made several other statements about “This Is It” weeks before it came out publicly. Here are a few examples, all stated on 9-18-09; this was more than a month before the release of “This Is It”, and the old MJkit forum still has this thread available to read (dated 9-20-09, because it was reposted on MJkit a couple days after I posted it on MJHD; {http://mjkit.forumotion.net/the-numbers-theory-for-all-theories-regarding-the-numbers-theory-f58/from-mjhd-excellent-the-9-9-09-prediction-did-come-true-this-is-it-settles-the-question-is-mj-alive-t1766.htm}
“Yes, this whole hoax and plan is for a bigger purpose than just exposing the media. It is time for everyone to STUDY peace {http://new.etonline.com/documents/mjackson_funeral_program_et_090409.pdf}: peace in our own lives, and peace in our world.”
“So if an MJ ‘resurrection’ is part of the plan and movie, what day would it be: … During the funeral wouldn’t even fit with the original Thriller, because the dead did not hop out of their caskets during a funeral—no, they came out of their graves. … ‘R’ = MJ Resurrection (9-9-09), MJ Return, MJ hoax Revealed!!! … Let’s see how many ‘R’ votes we can get between now and October 28 …”
Notice here that I connected the “Resurrection” with 9-9-09, which was already 9 days past at that time; so I was not using resurrection in the sense of returning to public view—I used the word “Return” for that. I used the word “resurrection” in the sense of a concept, related to the hoax and especially the Thriller II film segment (graveyard scene, see R20 & R21 below).
As already stated, the cinema version of the movie did “Reveal” the hoax to a degree (no MJ RIP; Smooth Criminal hoax death, hoax death actor in original “Gilda” had same birthday as MJ {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Macready}; and MJ “bam” statement at end, etc). And the home version will reveal it even more (see R20 & R22 below).
Then what about the MJ “Return” to public view, when will that be? Well, the sad thing is that potentially he could’ve returned at Halloween; but we were not ready. We did not understand the NWO conspiracy aspect of the hoax, or the seriousness of it; in fact, the old MJHD was forbidding discussion on this subject! And just a few days later, it went down and was out for about a week. We simply were not ready for MJ to return yet; if he had, in all the excitement, people would’ve had little or no interest in studying into the NWO aspects of the hoax.
Since people were not ready for the MJ return at Halloween: immediately after the TII movie was released, TIAI was set up. The purpose of TIAI was (and still is) to give MJ fans, and especially hoax believers, a better understanding and bigger picture of the hoax and the reasons for it; this in turn would help prepare the way for the MJ “Return”![/size]
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R20. 2 to 3 Hours of Additional Footage on “THIS IS IT” DVD/Blu-ray
{http://www.collider.com/2009/10/31/exclusive-director-kenny-ortega-says-expect-2-to-3-hours-of-additional-footage-on-this-is-it-dvdblu-ray/}
This was a video clip of an interview with Kenny Ortega, about the fact that the DVD and Blu-ray versions of “This Is It” would have 2 or 3 hours of additional footage. Please notice that this redirect was on November 22, which was a week before the official release date (and specific content) was made public. That did not happen until November 30 {http://www.michaeljackson.com/us/news/michael-jacksons-it-dvd-and-blu-ray-release-date-announced}.
Once the DVD release date was made public, the website gave the specifics of what would be included in the additional footage {http://www.thisisitmovieondvd.com/, then click “Special Features” at the top}.
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=1929.0
Maybe I'm off topic but I would like to point out the red parts in TS' post. As I've said before, I was never a follower of TS, doesn't mean that I assume that he is fake, not at all, but to me it wasn't necessary to follow him to learn more about the hoax. What strikes me as very strange is that TS is saying that WE were not ready for a return, otherwise Michael COULD HAVE returned/bammed at Halloween!!! In 2009!!!! What he is saying that we first had to learn more about NWO aspects of the Hoax. And now, TWO years later, knowing much more about NWO and many many other aspects, are we still not ready??? Ofcourse, there could be many other aspects and problems Michael faced during these past two years, so maybe HE is the one now who is not ready to return (if he will return at all), but that's not what TS implies in his post. He specifically is saying that it's US, WE are not ready.
Maybe I'm reading it all wrong, and I don't want to accuse TS in any way, but I feel this is striking remark of him that contradicts the sequel of the hoax.
I hope members over here are not mad at me for writing this, we agreed that, as long as we discuss things in a respectful way, we could ask anything. Like I've said, I know not too much about TS and maybe he proved himself right for many times now, but this is very odd to me.
Off-topic:aaawww! I just can't help it! I have to reply to this, even if it's off topic (sorry to others, pls skip our little delirious sisterhood-moment :lol: )
@Sim and WishingStar...you both bring such joy and laughter to my days. We should all meet up in the house bar later (or the underground wine cellar :lol:) and then 'mag-funk' to The Experience (I'm still waiting on that dance-off michael-jackson/).
Sending LOVE to you both! bearhug
With L.O.V.E. always.
@Do
What do you mean? You didn't do/say anything wrong.
Yes, what you say is also something I asked some time ago and didn't receive any reasonable answer.
This is what I brought up sometimes around the trial in autumn. If Michael was supposed to come back in October 2009 and then cancelled it because we weren't ready, now it all went through a whole trial, Murray received his guilty verdict, was sentenced to full, while we learned way more about secret societies and NWO, and still nothing.
You see, this is one of the main things that bother me. If you know, then why all this? Ok, we weren't ready in October 2009, but after 2+ years from October 2009 we are still not ready? Too many excuses over excuses, twistings and turnings to justify something that didn't happen. It's like I or you are guessing when it would be and go over statistics. But we don't know. Just guessing, considering some factors, but not knowing what Michael's plan is. But someone who knows the plan(s) should know beyond a shadow of a doubt if something will happen or not. And not roll the dice, guessing and making probabilities. And it was not only with Halloween 2009, but also January 18 (2010 MLK day) and January 25, and then he gave up setting dates.
I might be overly sincere saying all this and maybe it's not good, but that's how it is and that's how I am. You can't say what I say is not true, you all witnessed it. It's this why I feel the need to get this out and make people see that we, who doubt someone's intentions don't do it baseless or out of the desire to bash. But seriously. And another reason, we are all in this to fight against TPTB and their manipulation and infiltration in everything, they, who are puppeteering people. So that's what some of us feel. And even if we could just let it go and leave it and say "fuck it, I don't care". It's not like that. We are here for Michael and fight against lies, and if some of us feel manipulation and bad intentions we can't just let it there, down, don't care. As long as we have concerns, we express them not to bash, but really out of concern. Of what this has turned into, how we see it now in hindsight. It's not only me who feels the same. Because the main important thing here is Michael's situation. We are either a family or not. If I felt that my sister or brother is being led by some shady person with apparent good message (apparently Michael's message here) I won't just sit and watch. At least, if anything, I would express my feelings.
There are a lot of unanswered questions, and shady things. I don't say I know for sure who TS is, but some obvious connections to a Lord preacher and religion minister is not something to overlook. People don't even want to hear about it. But for some of us it's not like that. A lot of people from here left. We can't all go away and leave the forum. Well, we can, but that's the plan?
Regarding a TEST and/or Investigation being performed on us: I must admit I cannot exclude this possibility.Well, I bring again the Tim Simkin subject, because it fits with what you say.
BUT, Taking into account that there is such a small number of forum users who are active and post regularly, I rather doubt there is a test or a character analysis going on , much less on so many levels. Because in order for such a complex TEST to have reliable results, for a correct classification of believers and /or non-believers, there should be at least 100 users posting daily on the forum, and not just on 2-3 topics, but maybe 10 topics each!
But as long as there are only 20-30 of us posting in a disparate manner... each on topics according to their curiosity/tastes, I think nobody would have any interest in losing time with an experiment/test with us! lol
The TEST results would be inconclusive, irrelevant! How can you have an idea about how thousands of believers are if you do a test based only on a "sample" of a 2-3 dozens of users?
And on the other had, in these circumstances ^^ I think it's useless to do any test to analyze people here and their believes and/or reactions, MAINLY because: anyone can see that there are basically 2 main groups here with members opposing more or less to the opinions expressed by the other group members. So what's the use of a TEST at this point?
Yeah but I think she's being a bit short sighted in regards to it all. There is an ARG aspect that I have spoken about at length. There is a fictional aspect running parallel to reality in this. Well, at least, that's my take on it, and has been clear to me for some time. TS has been pretty upfront about us not taking his words as the gospel, and that he will occasionally support false theories (fiction).
This is why you have to rely only on yourself and your own instincts. Again, we come back to that common theme.
Off-topic:aaawww! I just can't help it! I have to reply to this, even if it's off topic (sorry to others, pls skip our little delirious sisterhood-moment :lol: )
@Sim and WishingStar...you both bring such joy and laughter to my days. We should all meet up in the house bar later (or the underground wine cellar :lol:) and then 'mag-funk' to The Experience (I'm still waiting on that dance-off michael-jackson/).
Sending LOVE to you both! bearhug
With L.O.V.E. always.
@BTC: please have no doubt you mean the same to me, us... you're our beloved hoax-sis'
Would I seem exaggerated if I told you that you're one of my VERY FAV posters here? I am always looking for you, I never want to miss any of your posts!! Sometimes I would love to reply to everything you say, but either I don't find the right words or I'm afraid I might add something unimportant to the discussion... But just know, my eyes are on you and I love you very much for everything you write! bearhug
About getting mag-funked together someday: YEAHHH! I would sooo love that!!
We should definitely start with a THRILLER-dance! (http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Divers/zombie46ni.gif)
I am overly thrilled (http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Content/youpi-12.gif) only at the thought of such an Experience with you guys ! ;) and not just you! I really have a dream about all our hoax-family getting to finally meet one day... (http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Amour/0004.gif)
Yeah but I think she's being a bit short sighted in regards to it all. There is an ARG aspect that I have spoken about at length. There is a fictional aspect running parallel to reality in this. Well, at least, that's my take on it, and has been clear to me for some time. TS has been pretty upfront about us not taking his words as the gospel, and that he will occasionally support false theories (fiction).
This is why you have to rely only on yourself and your own instincts. Again, we come back to that common theme.
Not short sighted I think, but cautious. What you are saying could be very well the deal (I mean the ARG-aspect and the false theories) and with Michael, you can expect anything, but like you are saying, rely on yourself and your instincts. And darn, those instincts still not allowing me to surrender!!! Maybe it's a good thing for me to finally read ALL TS' posts/threads/updates etc.
I'm not talking about testing people, but about gathering people and slowly perpetrating a certain agenda.
[...]Anna,
I saw on one of Simkin's sites that it has around 230 visitors since 2003. So very few. For sure, TIAI has way more visitors, like a few thousands, considering the views the pages have. So here I mean that Michael's fans are a target. Not for a psychological experiment/test, but for all kinds of people who want to gather audience to fulfill their agenda.
By the way, TS already addressed this issue in the last update:QuoteFor your information: I am familiar with the STUDY website. Does this mean that it is me, my website? Maybe; or maybe it’s someone I know; or maybe that website was used as a decoy. Regardless of which is the actual case: you are being tested, to see whether you can unbiasedly assess evidence based upon the evidence itself—and not on who the evidence came from, or who you think it came from, etc.http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=11061.0
Yet in some of the comments you can clearly see that if it were to suddenly be revealed concretely as coming from Michael...then presto-chango...it's all good. What good is it really if you only accept the message because you like, love (or in some cases are obsessed with) the messenger? Wouldn't that mean you have totally missed the point IN the message? A healthy dose of skepticism is never a bad thing...any dose of cynicism is never good.
Of course we'd all jump on if the ts bandwagon if we found him to be Michael! That's why we are here. But, there are in the know people coming and going all the time. I WANT to be 100% for sure...about anything I read...isn't that what Michael told us to do?Yet in some of the comments you can clearly see that if it were to suddenly be revealed concretely as coming from Michael...then presto-chango...it's all good. What good is it really if you only accept the message because you like, love (or in some cases are obsessed with) the messenger? Wouldn't that mean you have totally missed the point IN the message? A healthy dose of skepticism is never a bad thing...any dose of cynicism is never good.
Hmmm...
Imagine for one second that such "charismatic messenger" happens to be no other than Charles Manson, or another psychopath/ sociopath/ serial killer....let´s say...someone despicable in the eyes of society. Would you still "accept the message and it´s messenger?
It is VERY important to know the messenger now days.
I put it this way. I may accept the message in general terms but not the messenger.
Yet in some of the comments you can clearly see that if it were to suddenly be revealed concretely as coming from Michael...then presto-chango...it's all good. What good is it really if you only accept the message because you like, love (or in some cases are obsessed with) the messenger? Wouldn't that mean you have totally missed the point IN the message? A healthy dose of skepticism is never a bad thing...any dose of cynicism is never good.
Hmmm...
Imagine for one second that such "charismatic messenger" happens to be no other than Charles Manson, or another psychopath/ sociopath/ serial killer....let´s say...someone despicable in the eyes of society. Would you still "accept the message and it´s messenger?
It is VERY important to know the messenger now days.
I put it this way. I may accept the message in general terms but not the messenger.
Many are failing the test, and they didn’t even know that they were being tested. In fact, there is no better way to test people, than to do it without their knowledge; then people act natural, and don’t try to make themselves into something artificial. Does it make any difference, whether you pass or fail this test? Good question; but I won’t give the answer to that right now.
Yet in some of the comments you can clearly see that if it were to suddenly be revealed concretely as coming from Michael...then presto-chango...it's all good. What good is it really if you only accept the message because you like, love (or in some cases are obsessed with) the messenger? Wouldn't that mean you have totally missed the point IN the message? A healthy dose of skepticism is never a bad thing...any dose of cynicism is never good.
Hmmm...
Imagine for one second that such "charismatic messenger" happens to be no other than Charles Manson, or another psychopath/ sociopath/ serial killer....let´s say...someone despicable in the eyes of society. Would you still "accept the message and it´s messenger?
It is VERY important to know the messenger now days.
I put it this way. I may accept the message in general terms but not the messenger.
Pretty sure the message ought to stand for itself, regardless.
If Charles Manson preached a message of love and peace would you reject it because it was from Charles Manson? What's wrong with love and peace regardless of who it's coming from?
Yeah but I think she's being a bit short sighted in regards to it all. There is an ARG aspect that I have spoken about at length. There is a fictional aspect running parallel to reality in this. Well, at least, that's my take on it, and has been clear to me for some time. TS has been pretty upfront about us not taking his words as the gospel, and that he will occasionally support false theories (fiction).
This is why you have to rely only on yourself and your own instincts. Again, we come back to that common theme.
It is VERY important to know the messenger now days.
Of course we'd all jump on if the ts bandwagon if we found him to be Michael! That's why we are here. But, there are in the know people coming and going all the time. I WANT to be 100% for sure...about anything I read...isn't that what Michael told us to do?Yet in some of the comments you can clearly see that if it were to suddenly be revealed concretely as coming from Michael...then presto-chango...it's all good. What good is it really if you only accept the message because you like, love (or in some cases are obsessed with) the messenger? Wouldn't that mean you have totally missed the point IN the message? A healthy dose of skepticism is never a bad thing...any dose of cynicism is never good.
Hmmm...
Imagine for one second that such "charismatic messenger" happens to be no other than Charles Manson, or another psychopath/ sociopath/ serial killer....let´s say...someone despicable in the eyes of society. Would you still "accept the message and it´s messenger?
It is VERY important to know the messenger now days.
I put it this way. I may accept the message in general terms but not the messenger.
Bingo,i think this as well.I feel Michael,has experienced his spiritual awakening and has changed many of his beliefs.Imo,his main purpose for the hoax,is to save humanity.I really dont agree with the movie aspect,if he really believes in the 2012 N.W.O. theory,whats the point of the hoax,if its just about a movie and fooling the media.The hoax,is risky enough,so there has to be an important reason,and i believe its about exposing the evil,and manipulating powers that control the world.This is something Michael said about God. It's a huge different approach than what we've seen from TS/ Tim Simkin. To me it is a huge difference. That's what I'm trying to explain when I insist about being fed religion doctrines.
Michael sees God as the source of creation, not as Bible quotes and doctrines and literal Bible study.
"It's strange that God doesn't mind expressing Himself/Herself in all the religions of the world, while people still cling to the notion that their way is the only right way. Whatever you try to say about God, someone will take offense, even if you say everyone's love of God is right for them.
For me the form God takes is not the most important thing. What's most important is the essence. My songs and dances are outlines for Him to come in and fill. I hold out the form. She puts in the sweetness.
I've looked up at the night sky and beheld the stars so intimately close, it was as if my grandmother had made them for me.
"How rich, how sumptuous," I thought. In that moment I saw God in His creation. I could as easily have seen Her in the beauty of a rainbow, the grace of a deer bounding through a meadow, the truth of a father's kiss. But for me the sweetest contact with God has no form.
I close my eyes, look within, and enter a deep soft silence.
The infinity of God's creation embraces me. We are one.
Written By: Michael Jackson"
As far as I can tell, this was written in 1992, so MJ's religious viewpoints could have changed in 20 years. We just don't know.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5BqKgPHYRQ
Many are failing the test, and they didn’t even know that they were being tested. In fact, there is no better way to test people, than to do it without their knowledge; then people act natural, and don’t try to make themselves into something artificial. Does it make any difference, whether you pass or fail this test? Good question; but I won’t give the answer to that right now.
WOW...I'm certainly not here to please Michael. To please ANYONE. I'm here to satisfy my desire to be with others that believe Michael is alive. I'm here to find friends all over the world who love Michael and his music, dance, words and love. I'm here MAYBE, not necessarily to find out why Michael did the hoax, but if I don't whatever. I just want to know I'm not crazy like the world feels I/we are in believing Michael lives.Of course we'd all jump on if the ts bandwagon if we found him to be Michael! That's why we are here. But, there are in the know people coming and going all the time. I WANT to be 100% for sure...about anything I read...isn't that what Michael told us to do?Yet in some of the comments you can clearly see that if it were to suddenly be revealed concretely as coming from Michael...then presto-chango...it's all good. What good is it really if you only accept the message because you like, love (or in some cases are obsessed with) the messenger? Wouldn't that mean you have totally missed the point IN the message? A healthy dose of skepticism is never a bad thing...any dose of cynicism is never good.
Hmmm...
Imagine for one second that such "charismatic messenger" happens to be no other than Charles Manson, or another psychopath/ sociopath/ serial killer....let´s say...someone despicable in the eyes of society. Would you still "accept the message and it´s messenger?
It is VERY important to know the messenger now days.
I put it this way. I may accept the message in general terms but not the messenger.
That may be the point. People are only willing to follow the message if it comes from Michael. To me, that means that you (i'm talking in general terms, not necessarily you Ford) really don't care what the message is. Rather, you just care about pleasing Michael. Thus, the importance of the message itself is lost.
I understand but then I got confused when you said:
QuoteIt is VERY important to know the messenger now days.
Sorry MissG, I am confused as to what you are trying to say. If you can accept the message in general terms, why is it important to know the messenger?
Ps. yeah I did too, paula. Meh.
QuoteMany are failing the test, and they didn’t even know that they were being tested. In fact, there is no better way to test people, than to do it without their knowledge; then people act natural, and don’t try to make themselves into something artificial. Does it make any difference, whether you pass or fail this test? Good question; but I won’t give the answer to that right now.
So the testing is over now? Why put the users on guard if you'd want a natural result?
Someone would do this only if she/he wants to get a collection of false smiles and as many users who take your side against those who dare to criticize you.
GREAT POST!!!! WOW. GREAT. ;)I understand but then I got confused when you said:
QuoteIt is VERY important to know the messenger now days.
Sorry MissG, I am confused as to what you are trying to say. If you can accept the message in general terms, why is it important to know the messenger?
Ps. yeah I did too, paula. Meh.
Thanks for asking. Here the answer. Any message coming from someone we like or accept has more value at the end than a message that is accepted blindly, not knowing the messenger. Trust is crucial.
I am sure that many here are accepting "the message" because they believe it is coming from MJ or someone close to him, so they learn (because they think they haven´t learned before) and take it. If those who accepted the message find out that the message comes from Tom Sneddon i.e I can assure you that many will have the opposite reaction to it, even if it´s a good message. Why? because a lot of emotion and feelings are being invested here and we humans perceive the world classifying everything.
This forum and it´s members have something in common, Michael Jackson. Not Jesus, not the Bible, not faith, love, culture and if "we" are here is because we want to know about him, not to "learn" about anything else.
So far, such "message" everyone talk about i have not clear in which way has been presented by TS or Front or Back.
I go further. I have learnt more about love and tolerance from some other members here and kept "their messages" tight in my mind and heart.
Yeah, TS knows how to put people at work but I have not "learnt" love, compassion, understanding, care...neither from Front or Back. If the message is LOVE both have failed to convince me.
Thank you for your answer, Sarahli!QuoteMany are failing the test, and they didn’t even know that they were being tested. In fact, there is no better way to test people, than to do it without their knowledge; then people act natural, and don’t try to make themselves into something artificial. Does it make any difference, whether you pass or fail this test? Good question; but I won’t give the answer to that right now.
So the testing is over now? Why put the users on guard if you'd want a natural result?
Someone would do this only if she/he wants to get a collection of false smiles and as many users who take your side against those who dare to criticize you.
I believe the test can be seen on a wider scope/scale. The whole world witnessed Michael's "death" and that's when the test begun. When Michael comes back all those who were witnesses of this event will have to come to certain conclusions about themselves and how they relate to the media that's for sure.
So the test may end only when Michael bams.
I understand but then I got confused when you said:
QuoteIt is VERY important to know the messenger now days.
Sorry MissG, I am confused as to what you are trying to say. If you can accept the message in general terms, why is it important to know the messenger?
Ps. yeah I did too, paula. Meh.
Thanks for asking. Here the answer. Any message coming from someone we like or accept has more value at the end than a message that is accepted blindly, not knowing the messenger. Trust is crucial.
I am sure that many here are accepting "the message" because they believe it is coming from MJ or someone close to him, so they learn (because they think they haven´t learned before) and take it. If those who accepted the message find out that the message comes from Tom Sneddon i.e I can assure you that many will have the opposite reaction to it, even if it´s a good message. Why? because a lot of emotion and feelings are being invested here and we humans perceive the world classifying everything.
This forum and it´s members have something in common, Michael Jackson. Not Jesus, not the Bible, not faith, love, culture and if "we" are here is because we want to know about him, not to "learn" about anything else.
So far, such "message" everyone talk about i have not clear in which way has been presented by TS or Front or Back.
I go further. I have learnt more about love and tolerance from some other members here and kept "their messages" tight in my mind and heart.
Yeah, TS knows how to put people at work but I have not "learnt" love, compassion, understanding, care...neither from Front or Back. If the message is LOVE both have failed to convince me.
Of course we'd all jump on if the ts bandwagon if we found him to be Michael! That's why we are here. But, there are in the know people coming and going all the time. I WANT to be 100% for sure...about anything I read...isn't that what Michael told us to do?Yet in some of the comments you can clearly see that if it were to suddenly be revealed concretely as coming from Michael...then presto-chango...it's all good. What good is it really if you only accept the message because you like, love (or in some cases are obsessed with) the messenger? Wouldn't that mean you have totally missed the point IN the message? A healthy dose of skepticism is never a bad thing...any dose of cynicism is never good.
Hmmm...
Imagine for one second that such "charismatic messenger" happens to be no other than Charles Manson, or another psychopath/ sociopath/ serial killer....let´s say...someone despicable in the eyes of society. Would you still "accept the message and it´s messenger?
It is VERY important to know the messenger now days.
I put it this way. I may accept the message in general terms but not the messenger.
Me too, after I read his "Dancing the dream" I've perceive him as a free man in spirit, freed from the typical constraints of a religion.Bingo,i think this as well.I feel Michael,has experienced his spiritual awakening and has changed many of his beliefs. Imo,his main purpose for the hoax,is to save humanity.I really dont agree with the movie aspect,if he really believes in the 2012 N.W.O. theory,whats the point of the hoax,if its just about a movie and fooling the media.The hoax,is risky enough,so there has to be an important reason,and i believe its about exposing the evil,and manipulating powers that control the world.This is something Michael said about God. It's a huge different approach than what we've seen from TS/ Tim Simkin. To me it is a huge difference. That's what I'm trying to explain when I insist about being fed religion doctrines.
Michael sees God as the source of creation, not as Bible quotes and doctrines and literal Bible study.
"It's strange that God doesn't mind expressing Himself/Herself in all the religions of the world, while people still cling to the notion that their way is the only right way. Whatever you try to say about God, someone will take offense, even if you say everyone's love of God is right for them.
For me the form God takes is not the most important thing. What's most important is the essence. My songs and dances are outlines for Him to come in and fill. I hold out the form. She puts in the sweetness.
I've looked up at the night sky and beheld the stars so intimately close, it was as if my grandmother had made them for me.
"How rich, how sumptuous," I thought. In that moment I saw God in His creation. I could as easily have seen Her in the beauty of a rainbow, the grace of a deer bounding through a meadow, the truth of a father's kiss. But for me the sweetest contact with God has no form.
I close my eyes, look within, and enter a deep soft silence.
The infinity of God's creation embraces me. We are one.
Written By: Michael Jackson"
As far as I can tell, this was written in 1992, so MJ's religious viewpoints could have changed in 20 years. We just don't know.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5BqKgPHYRQ
MissG, I can't argue with you there. That's what, to me, points toward the ARG aspect of it all.
When actors on a stage play out a scene to evoke an emotion from the audience are they being manipulative to it's members? Yes, but most people don't take offense to that. They signed up for it by buying tickets or at least sitting down, because they want to have an entertaining, emotional experience. Let it be reminded that I think TIAI is the ARG. TS is not necessarily an individual. TS is a character in this ARG, and may be just that; a character, a role.
In regards to the cryptic messages indicating deceit. I agree there is deception at work here, but again I think how you define that deceit comes down to your perception/how you look at it. It's sort of like deceiving in the name of a game being played, as in poker, or hide-n-seek, or deception in a magic trick. As in the case of a magic trick, if you tell the truth you ruin the fun.
But the same could be said here. We all willingly signed up to get on the Michael Jackson Hoax Death ride at some point along the way. Some of that group signed up to see the TS sideshow too, but at no time has this been an easy or welcoming stay, and TS certainly didn't do a good job of enticing anyone to follow him. Many complained about updates too long or too boring with too much to read and complicated math problems. The levels don't yield answers and he doesn't keep promises. He doesn't really say anything, etc. He has never offered to do anything differently going forward.
Facing such overwhelming adversity in the hoax community from the start, 2.5 years in, TS doesn't seem to be fitting the profile of the possibility that you are guarding against; one who is manipulating in order to gather a congregation of supporters for some unknown agenda. I think 20 people is a pretty good estimate, considering the numbers lost along the way, there is certainly no gathering going on.
It is VERY important to know the messenger now days.
@BTC.....
you said: "I think level 7 included a 'test' in this sort of thing...and I'm pretty sure I failed."
LOL......you read my mind!!!!! No failure /woohoo/
LOVE
It is VERY important to know the messenger now days.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVRXXbU-z7U[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXi71XBdh1o[/youtube]
Well, thatWOW...I'm certainly not here to please Michael. To please ANYONE. I'm here to satisfy my desire to be with others that believe Michael is alive. I'm here to find friends all over the world who love Michael and his music, dance, words and love. I'm here MAYBE, not necessarily to find out why Michael did the hoax, but if I don't whatever. I just want to know I'm not crazy like the world feels I/we are in believing Michael lives.Of course we'd all jump on if the ts bandwagon if we found him to be Michael! That's why we are here. But, there are in the know people coming and going all the time. I WANT to be 100% for sure...about anything I read...isn't that what Michael told us to do?Yet in some of the comments you can clearly see that if it were to suddenly be revealed concretely as coming from Michael...then presto-chango...it's all good. What good is it really if you only accept the message because you like, love (or in some cases are obsessed with) the messenger? Wouldn't that mean you have totally missed the point IN the message? A healthy dose of skepticism is never a bad thing...any dose of cynicism is never good.
Hmmm...
Imagine for one second that such "charismatic messenger" happens to be no other than Charles Manson, or another psychopath/ sociopath/ serial killer....let´s say...someone despicable in the eyes of society. Would you still "accept the message and it´s messenger?
It is VERY important to know the messenger now days.
I put it this way. I may accept the message in general terms but not the messenger.
That may be the point. People are only willing to follow the message if it comes from Michael. To me, that means that you (i'm talking in general terms, not necessarily you Ford) really don't care what the message is. Rather, you just care about pleasing Michael. Thus, the importance of the message itself is lost.
About the message, I don't even believe there is a message actually. I don't have proof that it is about religion. About saving the world. About and ARG. About a movie. About getting crocked doctors or pharmacies. About the court system. Whatever we've guessed at. And it don't matter to me. It just matters that he's alive. He'll let me/us know when it's time to do it.
About only believing a message if it comes from Michael...THAT IS why I'm here. For Michael. Anyone can tell me anything any place in my life, that don't mean crap. Using what was said above about if a message of love came from Manson...EXACTLY! What I feel about that is, NO. Just because anyone is claiming LOVE and that it's what Michael wants them to be saying don't mean it's true. It could be A "manson" a whoever. Right, if it's a good message, then what does it matter, right? NOT. I do care who they come from. On line we can be anyone. Just because an angel is an angel don't tell whether it's a good angel or a bad angel. Just an angel. Same with the message. Just because it's a good message, don't make it a good person giving it. OR from Michael. Wish it did...AND MAYBE IT DOES.
I think the VERY problem IS that most people in the world DO follow the 'messengers' without thinking for themselves. And no matter how 'awake' we are now...we, TOO, have at one point or other ALSO followed 'messengers' without verifying or researching anything on our own. That is called being 'conditioned'...and not all conditioning is bad. A loving parent conditioning their child to learn right from wrong is NOT a bad thing, while conditioning your child to hate is...it's all in the 'INTENT' motivating the conditioning.
But 'society' (and it's pretty global) has become TOO conditioned...too lazy to question anything because that involves time and effort...it's MUCH easier if someone, anyone just provides the answers. We believe what doctors tell us we should put into our bodies after a 10 minute meeting in their office (doctors who probably got more problems than you can shake a stick at and are probably self-medicating to get through the day---they are 'human' too)...we rely on 'government' to test our drugs, our water, our food, our children (BUT...the kicker is, we know that 'they don't care about us')....we rely (for the most part) on rich, white men to run countries and make laws that affect our lives every second (all the while being completely ignorant, or willfully disregarding, the history of the 'white man' and how 'they', historically, haven't given a shit about anyone but themselves)....and we allow 'them' to 'fill the minds' of our children (as if they were empty) with stuff THEY choose to teach, based on THEIR perspective...whether in a school, in a libarary, in a movie theatre, or even in our own living rooms. And people are 'worried' about TS or Front or Back????
TS' 'message' from the very beginning was to question everything....EVEN him and everything he says. He offered 'paths' that anyone was free to choose to take or completely ignore. But based on post counts alone....he pretty much provided the 'titles' and WE filled in the chapters with OUR research, OUR thoughts, OUR findings, OUR analysis, OUR teamwork. It's completely CRAZY for me to understand those that feel TS is 'manipulating' us for some sinister 'hidden agenda'. THAT sort of 'conditioning'/manipulation that people are insinuating works in the polar opposite direction...the 'chapter' is written FOR you in those cases and you're lucky if you even get a say in the 'title'.
There are 373985 posts on this forum....as of this post. Under the username TS, where he did most of his writing, there were 24 posts in total. Under the username TS_comments, there are to-date, 166 posts. If his 'mission' is some grand form of sinister 'manipulation', then he's really not putting a lot of emphasis on brainwashing people with anything he has to say. WE have been writing the hoax 'chapters' all along....and EVEN when people have begged and begged and begged for TS to just give us the answers, he didn't and still hasn't and most likely won't. Adding THAT 'trait' (refusing to fill people's minds for them)...to the 'profile' of a sociopath or some cult-like 'manipulator' would, IMO, require a complete abandonment of logic.
I think level 7 included a 'test' in this sort of thing...and I'm pretty sure I failed .
With L.O.V.E. always.
Me too, after I read his "Dancing the dream" I've perceive him as a free man in spirit, freed from the typical constraints of a religion.
Religion is good in the early stage, it's like learning ABC in spirituality, but from a certain point it doesn't allow you to grow any more, but keeps you in patterns and rules, and fear.
About saving the world... How he would do that by hoaxing his death? Don't we expect too much from him? He's only a human like us...
In regards to the cryptic messages indicating deceit. I agree there is deception at work here, but again I think how you define that deceit comes down to your perception/how you look at it. It's sort of like deceiving in the name of a game being played, as in poker, or hide-n-seek, or deception in a magic trick. As in the case of a magic trick, if you tell the truth you ruin the fun.
As fordtocarr mentioned...most would be thrilled to jump on the bandwagon if these messages were deemed to have come directly from Michael...or per his instructions...but maybe along with the cynics that's part of the problem..."bandwagoners" If Michael is responsible directly or indirectly for our "whispers"...maybe he's trying to find out who is genuinely interested in all that's been discussed without the aura of his celebrity swaying the opinion. This seems totally logical to me given what I've watched, read or heard about the man. His lifetime it seems has been spent with the entire world clamoring for him and professing their undying devotion...but in reality it's obvious that most of that adoring public and even some from his "camp" were purely "drunk on celebrity" and in love with Michael the Entertainer and all the fluff that goes with it. If this is to be the biggest feat of his life to this point...I can completely understand the culling of the herd to make certain that the one's who claim to be his soldiers are fighting for the right reasons and not merely trying to get up close and personal. If I'm right...it's pretty sad that he'd have to deal with that even now...but I sure can't blame him for protecting himself...especially now. And before anyone says..."but he LOVES his fans"...I truly believe he does...but in this adventure...with some of the seriousness that's been implied...he also shouldn't risk them being his undoing IMO.
I really have a dream about all our hoax-family getting to finally meet one day...How totally awesome that would be! A little bit of heaven on earth!
This forum and it´s members have something in common, Michael Jackson. Not Jesus, not the Bible, not faith, love, culture and if "we" are here is because we want to know about him, not to "learn" about anything else.
The problem is we're not very indicative of the world as a whole. We all have a background of looking pretty deep below the surface into all things Michael Jackson. The general public is not. I'm not sure how studying our reactions would help him.
MissG, I can't argue with you there. That's what, to me, points toward the ARG aspect of it all.
When actors on a stage play out a scene to evoke an emotion from the audience are they being manipulative to it's members? Yes, but most people don't take offense to that. They signed up for it by buying tickets or at least sitting down, because they want to have an entertaining, emotional experience. Let it be reminded that I think TIAI is the ARG. TS is not necessarily an individual. TS is a character in this ARG, and may be just that; a character, a role.
In regards to the cryptic messages indicating deceit. I agree there is deception at work here, but again I think how you define that deceit comes down to your perception/how you look at it. It's sort of like deceiving in the name of a game being played, as in poker, or hide-n-seek, or deception in a magic trick. As in the case of a magic trick, if you tell the truth you ruin the fun.
If you think any of them is controlling your mind, then you clearly do not think for yourself and you lack faith in yourself and your own beliefs. Saying that you would only believe the information if it were fed to you by Michael, is a strange statement. If Michael tells you to jump in the fire, would you do that? If he told you to convert to the JW belief, would you do that? Only because you trust the messenger? TS said to go by the evidence itself, not the messenger. He provides information and you are free to believe whatever you want. If you do not believe the information, then fine: move along to other threads. This has been discussed a hundred times and is going in circles. Are we bored or something?
Only because you trust the messenger? TS said to go by the evidence itself, not the messenger. He provides information and you are free to believe whatever you want.Basicly, TS/Front is challenging us to THINK and investigate deeper than we probably normally would do, i.e. do research in circles within the easy comfort zone. Information provided by TS/Front could lead us to investigate in a certain direction. It's just a matter of taking notice of this information and deciding if it's useful and yet stick to your own beliefs without being destracted by discussions (which is not easy..I know :roll:).
If Michael tells you to jump in the fire, would you do that?
I think the VERY problem IS that most people in the world DO follow the 'messengers' without thinking for themselves. And no matter how 'awake' we are now...we, TOO, have at one point or other ALSO followed 'messengers' without verifying or researching anything on our own. That is called being 'conditioned'...and not all conditioning is bad. A loving parent conditioning their child to learn right from wrong is NOT a bad thing, while conditioning your child to hate is...it's all in the 'INTENT' motivating the conditioning.
But 'society' (and it's pretty global) has become TOO conditioned...too lazy to question anything because that involves time and effort...it's MUCH easier if someone, anyone just provides the answers. We believe what doctors tell us we should put into our bodies after a 10 minute meeting in their office (doctors who probably got more problems than you can shake a stick at and are probably self-medicating to get through the day---they are 'human' too)...we rely on 'government' to test our drugs, our water, our food, our children (BUT...the kicker is, we know that 'they don't care about us')....we rely (for the most part) on rich, white men to run countries and make laws that affect our lives every second (all the while being completely ignorant, or willfully disregarding, the history of the 'white man' and how 'they', historically, haven't given a shit about anyone but themselves)....and we allow 'them' to 'fill the minds' of our children (as if they were empty) with stuff THEY choose to teach, based on THEIR perspective...whether in a school, in a libarary, in a movie theatre, or even in our own living rooms. And people are 'worried' about TS or Front or Back????
TS' 'message' from the very beginning was to question everything....EVEN him and everything he says.
And that's what some of us are doing. Perhaps TS would be glad we are if he instructed us to question everything, even him.
Also, to me and I think to others, the reason this keeps getting brought up, isn't boredom (it comes up when things lul because it's always on our mind, but when busy our mind is occupied), but the reason is because we never get an answer. I think we know there probably is no answer, but it is a puzzle, just as the whole hoax, and as ts has come into the hoax proclaiming to KNOW, then it is part of the puzzle to find and question just who is claiming that.
True, he don't have many posts, but why the need if you can come in with even just ONE post and shape the way the hoax travels? It don't take a lot of words to change an investigation. Just make people believe you know more than they do. Get them with simple clues to do their own research then that way, if you are not legit or if things don't pan out, it's not because of you, but because of THEM, who came to the wrong conclusion simply from your hint.
I'm not sitting on the fence with ts, wanting to be right, or just in case, that way I'm right either way. I just don't want anyone to tell me which path to take without telling me why to do it, or where I'll end up even. Granted I don't have to listen...BUT, as I keep saying, what ts says, does effect the entire hoax. I can post, oh say, Michael did all this so all will become JW"S. But, then it would go back to...NO, TS posts say...blah blah. Or we have proof otherwise because of somethings said that ts lead to. So, not following ts does still matter.
I think that probably, once again, these questions will not be answered, until there is some firm definitive evidence for us who question as ts did say to do.
Also, I'm not saying I will do everything Michael says to do. But, regarding the hoax, if he said well, you need to do this or that to understand, then yes I would. Of course, I don't think he'd say to do things to change MY life as jump in the fire or change my religion, unless he could provide why.
To me it is important where your info comes from when you represent someone people are investigating. If there were an actual physical investigation, and someone as ts wrote this info to the cops, would they want proof, would they want to know who is giving it? Well, to us too. I'm not at all wanting to be right. I'd rather be wrong really and have ts just lead me and push the directions for me. But for me true colors have shown and facts too. We can and will believe as our inner voice speaks, but really, perhaps we should once again let it go and just investigate it all in the background.
Love to you all♥
He offered 'paths' that anyone was free to choose to take or completely ignore. But based on post counts alone....he pretty much provided the 'titles' and WE filled in the chapters with OUR research, OUR thoughts, OUR findings, OUR analysis, OUR teamwork. It's completely CRAZY for me to understand those that feel TS is 'manipulating' us for some sinister 'hidden agenda'. THAT sort of 'conditioning'/manipulation that people are insinuating works in the polar opposite direction...the 'chapter' is written FOR you in those cases and you're lucky if you even get a say in the 'title'.
There are 373985 posts on this forum....as of this post. Under the username TS, where he did most of his writing, there were 24 posts in total. Under the username TS_comments, there are to-date, 166 posts. If his 'mission' is some grand form of sinister 'manipulation', then he's really not putting a lot of emphasis on brainwashing people with anything he has to say. WE have been writing the hoax 'chapters' all along....and EVEN when people have begged and begged and begged for TS to just give us the answers, he didn't and still hasn't and most likely won't. Adding THAT 'trait' (refusing to fill people's minds for them)...to the 'profile' of a sociopath or some cult-like 'manipulator' would, IMO, require a complete abandonment of logic.
I think level 7 included a 'test' in this sort of thing...and I'm pretty sure I failed :lol:.
With L.O.V.E. always.
QuoteIf Michael tells you to jump in the fire, would you do that?
yes bounce/
;D
Regardless of who Front and TS are, I think we are forgetting here that both knew certain things in advance, and both are being backed up by Michael's own family. So whoever they might be should not be important, clearly the family thinks it's important enough to support both of them. That means that there is probably something in the messages we should pay attention to.
If you think any of them is controlling your mind, then you clearly do not think for yourself and you lack faith in yourself and your own beliefs. Saying that you would only believe the information if it were fed to you by Michael, is a strange statement. If Michael tells you to jump in the fire, would you do that? If he told you to convert to the JW belief, would you do that? Only because you trust the messenger? TS said to go by the evidence itself, not the messenger. He provides information and you are free to believe whatever you want. If you do not believe the information, then fine: move along to other threads. This has been discussed a hundred times and is going in circles. Are we bored or something?
:? I think it’s about my time to jump ship because unfortunately it seems to be sinking fast. /cook/ I didn’t come here to debate others reigious beliefs, nor to judge anyone about who they have chosen for their spiritual guidance and/or savior. And though I am somewhat certain that spirituality plays a large part of the hoax, I don’t believe that Michael Jakson would try to pit one against the other based on how they were raised to serve their God, who ever he or she turns out to be. It is a choice, after all. All the bickering, and finger pointing and putting each other down on a personal level for how they choose to believe is in my opinion a waste of energy. It’s turned into a I am wrong and you are right, I am knowledgeable and you are stupid, a me, me, me mentality that doesn’t accomplish anything. I thought we were here to find the truth in the lies that we were being told about June 25, 2009. How did that get us here, fighting with each other about our own faith? It’s not about us. :evil: I say who ever you choose to pray to is your choice, as well it should be. I will never tell anyone that their belief is wrong. And I wouldn’t appreciate anyone telling me that mine was with such defiance. That’s why I usually never talk religion and shun it altogether. It’s dangerous. It’s called “choice” for a reason. No one else gets to vote. This is getting beyond my comfort level. I’ll come back when the discussion gets back to helping pave the way for Michael to return safely. This debate has no resolve and is frustrating to watch it unfold. Michael wants us to find our own truth not for anyone else to find it for us.
Also, to me and I think to others, the reason this keeps getting brought up, isn't boredom (it comes up when things lul because it's always on our mind, but when busy our mind is occupied), but the reason is because we never get an answer. I think we know there probably is no answer, but it is a puzzle, just as the whole hoax, and as ts has come into the hoax proclaiming to KNOW, then it is part of the puzzle to find and question just who is claiming that.
I'm not sitting on the fence with ts, wanting to be right, or just in case, that way I'm right either way. I just don't want anyone to tell me which path to take without telling me why to do it, or where I'll end up even. Granted I don't have to listen...BUT, as I keep saying, what ts says, does effect the entire hoax. I can post, oh say, Michael did all this so all will become JW"S. But, then it would go back to...NO, TS posts say...blah blah. Or we have proof otherwise because of somethings said that ts lead to. So, not following ts does still matter.
I think that probably, once again, these questions will not be answered, until there is some firm definitive evidence for us who question as ts did say to do.
AND, to me, would he have planned on this 20 years and then had 3 children to leave? Granted we think he's with them, but really, tell me the worlds biggest story ever would be catching a living Michael Jackson. Think he's with the kids, never leaving the house? They are there in public now..coming and going. He'd be seen for sure that close to the world. But, otherwise, he'd plan on having kids, knowing he'd leave them, 20 years ago. To much don't make sense. I do think his songs point to "something", but I don't know if it's this.....
Also, to me and I think to others, the reason this keeps getting brought up, isn't boredom (it comes up when things lul because it's always on our mind, but when busy our mind is occupied), but the reason is because we never get an answer. I think we know there probably is no answer, but it is a puzzle, just as the whole hoax, and as ts has come into the hoax proclaiming to KNOW, then it is part of the puzzle to find and question just who is claiming that.
Exactly. This is my problem too. We never get some serious answers, just more and more questions and "maybe's".
I'm not sitting on the fence with ts, wanting to be right, or just in case, that way I'm right either way. I just don't want anyone to tell me which path to take without telling me why to do it, or where I'll end up even. Granted I don't have to listen...BUT, as I keep saying, what ts says, does effect the entire hoax. I can post, oh say, Michael did all this so all will become JW"S. But, then it would go back to...NO, TS posts say...blah blah. Or we have proof otherwise because of somethings said that ts lead to. So, not following ts does still matter.
I think that probably, once again, these questions will not be answered, until there is some firm definitive evidence for us who question as ts did say to do.
Again, exactly my thoughts. I will explain more.
Let's say some of us really don't believe Michael has planned all his life to hoax his death at the age of 50, so some of us don't believe he's spent 20 years planning to do this in 2009. I'm not saying this can be done in a rush, but I hardly believe he's spent 20 years thinking and planning this. If those who think he has planned this let's say most likely around "Invincible", people jump and say "you have to be kidding me, I mean Michael has spent 20+ years planning his hoax for you to come and say [...]" and etc, and etc. You know? Who says he spent 20 years planning to hoax his death? TS. Actually there is no real proof of that. Just the movie "Moonwalker" is not a proof. It doesn't show any sign about planning to hoax his death since late 80s. And from there, the ones that don't believe he spent 20 years planning to hoax his death are somehow belittled as if we "don't know shit". So somehow yes, all the discussion spins around already pre-established doctrines.
[...]TS to me is NOT one who is manipulating in order to gather a congregation of supporters for some unknown agenda but Front, and not to gather a congregation but to have an audience to be entertain with, not the other way around.1. How do you envision someone's entertainment as you mentioned above^^?
[...]Many points of view has been presented. Enough to decide who or what to believe. To make up the mind with "second" opinions ;)Exactly! We've arrived at a point when everybody should know what way to take! you either believe or not!
P.S. @Sim...thank you SO much for your kind words. You have taught me plenty...through your posts on and off the forum...and I am 'better' for having met you. You've 'manipulated'/shifted my perspective on Elvis and on the connections between Elvis and MJ...and have inspired me to further learn more on my own.aaawww! (http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Amour/emoticones-msn-amoureux-baiser-confus.gif)
Keep up the great work!
With L.O.V.E. always.
SimPattyKooh yess! definitely! ;) bearhugQuoteI really have a dream about all our hoax-family getting to finally meet one day...How totally awesome that would be! A little bit of heaven on earth!
2. that strong evidence was always based on numerology, which is a pseudoscience.
Numerology is any study of the purported divine, mystical or other special relationship between a count or measurement and life.
TS to me is NOT one who is manipulating in order to gather a congregation of supporters for some unknown agenda but Front, and not to gather a congregation but to have an audience to be entertain with, not the other way around.
Regardless of who Front and TS are, I think we are forgetting here that both knew certain things in advance, and both are being backed up by Michael's own family. So whoever they might be should not be important, clearly the family thinks it's important enough to support both of them. That means that there is probably something in the messages we should pay attention to.
Souza: Regardless of who Front and TS are, I think we are forgetting here that both knew certain things in advance, and both are being backed up by Michael's own family. So whoever they might be should not be important, clearly the family thinks it's important enough to support both of them. That means that there is probably something in the messages we should pay attention to.
To me it is important where your info comes from when you represent someone people are investigating. If there were an actual physical investigation, and someone as ts wrote this info to the cops, would they want proof, would they want to know who is giving it? Well, to us too. I'm not at all wanting to be right.
Also, I'm not saying I will do everything Michael says to do. But, regarding the hoax, if he said well, you need to do this or that to understand, then yes I would. Of course, I don't think he'd say to do things to change MY life as jump in the fire or change my religion, unless he could provide why.
But for me true colors have shown and facts too.
@Ford...thanks for reading and responding to my post. There have been a lot of great posts from differing perspectives and I think that's great---healthy and respectful discussion is always good. It is evident (to me) that we won't all agree on TS (and that's ok...he's not the only thing we haven't all agreed on)...but it's also becoming more evident, through reading the posts, that the reason for that is NOT TS at all...but rather our individual preferences, outlooks, beliefs, and personalities. How we each 'interpret' TS depends more on the 'reader' than on what he actually says.
For example...Ford said:QuoteTo me it is important where your info comes from when you represent someone people are investigating. If there were an actual physical investigation, and someone as ts wrote this info to the cops, would they want proof, would they want to know who is giving it? Well, to us too. I'm not at all wanting to be right.
That's one way of 'interpreting' things...but it's not the only way. I 'interpret' it in a completely different way because to me, the 'message' always takes precedence over the 'messenger' (i.e. the information I hear or see either pans out or it doesn't...regardless of the 'source'). In the example Ford presented...i.e. if there were an investigation...there are MILLIONS of 'tips' that go in to real-life investigators (police, FBI, etc) where the 'source' is never known and it is that person's right to remain anonymous. IF the 'source' of these tips HAD to be 'validated' before the information provided could be checked, researched, studied, verified, etc....countless crimes would never have been solved.
On the flip side...Charles Manson was mentioned earlier and some said they would NOT consider him a valuable 'source' for anything....i.e. whatever 'message' he could possibly have would be worthless because of WHO he is/what he has done, etc. But that is just ONE perspective/interpretation...and once again, I see it completely different. Who better to 'study' in order to learn the inner workings of the sociopathetic mind, than a sociopath? Would reading about the capabilities of the 'insane mind' in a book or listening to some guest speaker give you more tangible information or experience, than watching and listening to an actual 'insane mind'? There are many things that could be learned from someone like Manson...including what signs to look for regarding sinister 'manipulation'. And make no mistake...the saying "there is a fine line between genius and insanity" is very true, in many cases.Also, I'm not saying I will do everything Michael says to do. But, regarding the hoax, if he said well, you need to do this or that to understand, then yes I would. Of course, I don't think he'd say to do things to change MY life as jump in the fire or change my religion, unless he could provide why.
But what if he IS telling us what we need to do to understand things more but you're disregarding it because you're 'hung up' on fear or insecurity? Because there is no 'assurance' either way (i.e. we have not and will not hear from Mike directly...until he deems it's time)...then there IS a possibility that he IS 'guiding' us through TS, Front and Back in order to help us understand. No one here can claim to KNOW with 100% certainty that there is NO possibility that this is what's happening. It's been 2.5 years and NO ONE has been able to refute TS' posts with anything substantial. And if the possibility DOES exists...even if in your mind it's only a slight possibility...what harm is there in reading what could very well be coming from Mike? Has TS ever asked anyone for money or for their personal info or to do ANYTHING that would be dangerous? People are so quick to caution about 'reading' TS' posts...yet they have no problem sending their kids off to school everyday to read, learn and be 'taught' half-truths, slanted perspectives and, in many cases, outright lies ("history books ARE full of lies"). I just don't get it :?QuoteBut for me true colors have shown and facts too.
Questioning TS and/or things he has said has never been an issue...he, himself, asked us to do that. I think the frustration, for some, sets in when statements like this are made with absolutely no backing or evidence or specific reference to something TS said. That is not questioning, that is expressing an opinion while withholding your reasoning for it. Of course, opinions are a huge part of any discussion...but it would really help the discussion if people were more clear on what they mean by statements such as 'true colors have shown and facts too'. What 'true colors' and what 'facts'? We can only provide our own opinion/interpretation if we know the reasoning behind these statements.
Again...I do think these discussions are good so long as they provide people with things to think about and remain respectful. When it comes to TS, though, I really don't think we will all agree because our individual 'interpretations' are VERY much dependant on factors that actually have little to do with the 'messenger'....and much more to do with the 'receiver'.
With L.O.V.E. always.
2. that strong evidence was always based on numerology, which is a pseudoscience.
I just wanted to bring this back up. Your sentiments re: numerology are repeated not infrequently, yet they miss the point completely and need to be addressed.
Of course numerology is a pseudoscience. No one disputes that. This is not the point.
Numerology defined:QuoteNumerology is any study of the purported divine, mystical or other special relationship between a count or measurement and life.
and this equating pseudoscience I believe is undisputed.
But this is not how it applies to the hoax.
How does numerology apply to the hoax?
The accepted premise is: MJ used certain numbers as a template for his hoax plans. He purposely manipulated dates, quantities, and figures to include numerical elements; ie 9/9/09, 777, 1998, 111, 666, etc, that show up periodically. These numerical elements that appear with tremendous frequency in all things hoax related could either be 1) coincidences or 2) by design. Because we all agree that numerology is a pseudoscience, we accept that their appearances are not divinely inspired. This leaves few possibilities as to WHO designed their inclusion. Many accept that MJ himself designed their inclusion, NOT GOD.
If anyone were touting that god (or even fate) was responsible for these numbers showing up in this hoax, you could refute that theory by offering the fact that numerology is a pseudoscience and you'd be right.
However, as it is, the idea is that MJ is responsible for these numbers showing up is not a pseudoscience, that's a PLAN.
And that's the point. So please, once and for all, understand that it matters not that numerology IS INDEED a pseudoscience. It matters only that the numerology is either 1) all coincidences or 2) planned by SOMEONE.
This is why TS posted the $999 reward to anyone who could prove that the numerology was all a coincidence. If you rule out coincidence, you settle on 2) it was planned.
Once you arrive at that premise, you must further delve into deciding WHO's plan it was. That brought us to the murder vs. hoax discussion. The numerology was either planned by 1) MJ or 2) the murders... and etc etc etc as TS's posts entail.
Does that help clarify?
both are being backed up by Michael's own family.
Really, do you honestly think that Michael could tell us directly that he's Michael?
QuoteIf Michael tells you to jump in the fire, would you do that?
yes bounce/
;D
@Ford...SUPER congrats on your new job!!!! That is SO exciting...and, I'm sure, also a bit scary...but you will do great! Believe in yourself...you ARE great bearhug
Don't stay away for too long, though...you are appreciated, valued and loved ::P
Good luck!
With L.O.V.E. always.
Can someone clarify my questions?I think BEC did a great job at clarifying things related to hoax-Numerology in her post.
[...]or
These numerical elements that appear with tremendous frequency in all things hoax related could either be
1) coincidences
or
2) by design.
Because we all agree that numerology is a pseudoscience, we accept that their appearances are not divinely inspired. This leaves few possibilities as to WHO designed their inclusion. Many accept that MJ himself designed their inclusion, NOT GOD.I agree...I accept that Elvis and Michael designed their death hoax, BUT by certain numbers that they thought were indicated to them by God.
If anyone were touting that god (or even fate) was responsible for these numbers showing up in this hoax, you could refute that theory by offering the fact that numerology is a pseudoscience and you'd be right. [...]Numerology is a pseudoscience, ok.
@MissG: before I start asking you some questions, I'd like to tell you that I appreciate you very much for your original points of view, very cleverly expressed and especially for your polite, civilized tone. Not only you don't offend nor patronize anyone of us who have definitely a very different opinion from yours, but you also manage to have a conversation with opposing interlocutors. That's rare! and I love this! I just wanted you to know this.
Everything I wrote in this paragraph is also available to Anna! ;)
Now, let's continue with our contradictory discussion ;)[...]TS to me is NOT one who is manipulating in order to gather a congregation of supporters for some unknown agenda but Front, and not to gather a congregation but to have an audience to be entertain with, not the other way around.1. How do you envision someone's entertainment as you mentioned above^^?
I mean if Front likes to have an audience here (even as small as 20-30 people like on this forum and a few hundred others who just watch , but by not participating you can never know if they read Front's messages in particular, so we stick to 20-30 people), ok so I repeat: if you think Front is entertained by fooling around with this audience here, I tried to put myself in the shoes of such a person and I thought: how entertaining can it be? to play pretend as an insider to some 20-30 MJ believers, by writing a post or two per week, not more, giving them cryptic messages as you say, false clues, writing jokes, making some snippets with lyrics bashing the media, and you can add anything that Front-the faker seems to be doing here. I thought and I thought from the faker's perspective, but I couldn't find the entertainment! what's so funny about it? I mean at the beginning: you can have fun receiving all the posters' attention, receiving loving messages, you can feel good about yourself knowing that some 20-30 people wait impatiently for your next post, then you can laugh at believers at first, for 2-3 days, even weeks, but then, it's gotta become extremely boring, even for a mentally disturbed person who would do such a thing. So please tell me what do you think that Front, who in your view is a faker, who entertains himself with the 20 people audience here, what do you think he finds so entertaining about his fake game?
2. And if you think that it's not TS the one who manipulates, but only Front, then how do you explain TS validating Front? I mean in this case they either have to be both manipulators/fakers or neither of them!
Really, do you honestly think that Michael could tell us directly that he's Michael?
After seeing how people is still affected, yes.
MissG:QuoteTS to me is NOT one who is manipulating in order to gather a congregation of supporters for some unknown agenda but Front, and not to gather a congregation but to have an audience to be entertain with, not the other way around.
That doesn't make sense at all suspicious// because TS has validated Front many times through his redirects. Not to mention all the validation from MJ's family and official MJ Facebook page. Not just once -- not twice -- but several times. rr/
Agree Sarahli!Really, do you honestly think that Michael could tell us directly that he's Michael?
After seeing how people is still affected, yes.
Yes and ruin his security and risk failure of the Hoax plans? Michael "faked his death" so he must make the world believe he is "dead". So how do you expect him to directly tell us? In which manner can he do that? I don't understand this at all.
Really, do you honestly think that Michael could tell us directly that he's Michael?
After seeing how people is still affected, yes.
Yes and ruin his security and risk failure of the Hoax plans? Michael "faked his death" so he must make the world believe he is "dead". So how do you expect him to directly tell us? In which manner can he do that? I don't understand this at all.
[...]TS to me is NOT one who is manipulating in order to gather a congregation of supporters for some unknown agenda but Front, and not to gather a congregation but to have an audience to be entertain with, not the other way around.[...]
2. And if you think that it's not TS the one who manipulates, but only Front, then how do you explain TS validating Front? I mean in this case they either have to be both manipulators/fakers or neither of them!
I don´t say that Front is a faker but it is clear that he/she is evasive about giving a straight answer= "I AM NOT MJ PEOPLE"
Everybody stand up for him/her but he/she rarely or never stands up for anyone.And who do you want Front to stand up for ?
MissG:QuoteTS to me is NOT one who is manipulating in order to gather a congregation of supporters for some unknown agenda but Front, and not to gather a congregation but to have an audience to be entertain with, not the other way around.
That doesn't make sense at all suspicious// because TS has validated Front many times through his redirects. Not to mention all the validation from MJ's family and official MJ Facebook page. Not just once -- not twice -- but several times. rr/
Makes sense since both are 2 different characters, as shown in their posts.
They may have validated each other but Michael´s family has not validated them.
Regardless of who Front and TS are, I think we are forgetting here that both knew certain things in advance, and both are being backed up by Michael's own family. So whoever they might be should not be important, clearly the family thinks it's important enough to support both of them. That means that there is probably something in the messages we should pay attention to.
Can someone clarify my questions?I think BEC did a great job at clarifying things related to hoax-Numerology in her post.
I'll try to add my way of understanding and seeing Numerology too.
Bec , I respect your view and you'll see that even though I agree with 80% of what you said, there are some parts where... I can't say I disagree, but maybe I complete what you said with my own perspective....[...]or
These numerical elements that appear with tremendous frequency in all things hoax related could either be
1) coincidences
or
2) by design.
3) by God's will
The following data cannot be explained by the first 2 points mentioned by you, Bec, but in my opinion, these data can only be explained by God's will! While one can plan the dates on which some hoax-events will happen, I think everybody agrees no one can PLAN their own birthday. So there's definitely a 3rd option here - GOD, just my opinion and everything hoax-related had been planned starting from these already divinely set-up numbers.
<snip for ease of reviewing>
So Elvis significant numbers 42 & 24 perfectly match the total sums of Michael's birthday-date [42] & death-date [24] How funny! Can it be all a Coincidence? Can it be all just a man-made PLAN? or Does God have a 'hand' in this too?
*** I think that, as Bec said, the hoax is planned based on intentional figures and events meant to happen at a specific time! Why? maybe because:
1. doing everything by the numbers, namely doing calculated things, one can hardly make mistakes! carefully planned, calculated actions = the way to PERFECTION! I think we all know "someone" very dear to all of us, who has always been a PERFECTION seeker!
2. the belief that doing everything by the numbers, and not just any numbers, but the DIVINE ones, ensures the success of the plan
3. doing everything by the numbers represents the perfect proof that nothing was accidental, that there was a plan with a purpose and not just a capricious game
4. doing everything by the numbers made the perfect connection to Elvis' hoax!
and I could go on and on like this....
- I marked in purple the word "by design" because I found it interesting that Bec used it in this context, just like Elvis... and something tells me Bec was unaware of this Elvis' quote... Am I right or wrong, Bec? ;)
Because we all agree that numerology is a pseudoscience, we accept that their appearances are not divinely inspired. This leaves few possibilities as to WHO designed their inclusion. Many accept that MJ himself designed their inclusion, NOT GOD.I agree...I accept that Elvis and Michael designed their death hoax, BUT by certain numbers that they thought were indicated to them by God.If anyone were touting that god (or even fate) was responsible for these numbers showing up in this hoax, you could refute that theory by offering the fact that numerology is a pseudoscience and you'd be right. [...]Numerology is a pseudoscience, ok.
Fate is not responsible for all numerological connections in the hoax, ok.
God is not responsible for all numerological connections in the hoax, ok.
BUT the numerological connections in the hoax were designed to fit certain God given numbers that influenced the lives and careers of both Elvis & Michael!
I perceive Michael (after watching his speeches in TII for a couple of times) as a kind loving person and quite direct when communicating his message. He definitely would use a kind loving approach, assuming he is the man shown in TII for real.
“One time I took pictures of him while he was in bed because he was late for a meeting I’d set up and wouldn’t get up. He was like, “Todd, I’m gonna get you for that!
And he did. I’d forgotten all about what happened while he was performing one night and he’d told me to stand in a specific spot to take photos of him when he began singing that song. I did as I was instructed. So right before I go to take my position, Michael drops to his back and starts saying, “Help me, help me! I need some woman to touch me!” and every woman in that place collapsed on me. I was between them and Michael and I couldn’t even get one shot in and he gave me this look like, I got you.
Afterwards, I said you think you’re so cute, and he says, “What do you mean, Todd?” I’m like, Mike that hurt; those people were crushing me and all he said: “Todd, the spirit just takes me sometimes and the spirit just took me.” That’s when I knew that was payback and that was the last time I stepped out of line with him” - Todd Gray
MJFAN7 http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=6765.msg385454#msg3854 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=6765.msg385454#msg385454)
A VERY important hoax-number, occurring very often both in Elvis & MJ hoax [we also saw Dr. Murray wearing a t-shirt with it]Great work, thanks so much!
is NUMBER24 [which is Backwards or Reversed: 42-- the age Elvis "died"]
- 24 = 8 + 8 + 8 or 888 [no. 8 is Elvis' number]
- 42 = 7 + 7 + 7 +7 +7 +7 or 777 777 [no. 7 is Michael's number]
- The 3 most important hoax-numbers sum: 7 + 8 + 9 = 24
- Elvis “death” month + day: 16+8= 24
- Elvis "death"year: 1+9+7+7 = 24
- Elvis comeback in 1968: 1+9+6+8 = 24
- Lisa Marie's birthday year: 1+9+6+8 = 24
- Michael’s birthday-anniversary in 2012: 8 + 2 + 9 + 2 + 1 + 2 = 24
- Michael ‘s birthday-date: 8+2+9+1+9+5+8 = 42 - the age Elvis "died"
- Michael’s “death”-date: 6+ 2 + 5 + 2 + 9 = 24
So Elvis significant numbers 42 & 24 perfectly match the total sums of Michael's birthday-date [42] & death-date [24] How funny! Can it be all a Coincidence? Can it be all just a man-made PLAN? or Does God have a 'hand' in this too?
*** I think that, as Bec said, the hoax is planned based on intentional figures and events meant to happen at a specific time! Why? maybe because:
1. doing everything by the numbers, namely doing calculated things, one can hardly make mistakes! carefully planned, calculated actions = the way to PERFECTION! I think we all know "someone" very dear to all of us, who has always been a PERFECTION seeker!
2. the belief that doing everything by the numbers, and not just any numbers, but the DIVINE ones, ensures the success of the plan
3. doing everything by the numbers represents the perfect proof that nothing was accidental, that there was a plan with a purpose and not just a capricious game
4. doing everything by the numbers made the perfect connection to Elvis' hoax!
and I could go on and on like this....
*** But I also think these intentional figures were not just randomly chosen to plan the hoax, but these numbers were intentionally chosen to fit the divine figures already planned by God. Why would Michael chose no. 7 and not no. 2 , for example? Well here is a possible explanation: The Number 7 in Scripture (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcTnVVV0RIE)and here: THE AMAZING FIRST VERSE OF THE BIBLE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZV0hUldrYp4)
*** I think that both Elvis and Michael, realized that God's perfect creation is based on Numbers: think about how everything surrounding us is all about numbers! the Bible, the musical notes, everything in this world seems to exist because of Numbers! This would explain why, being so faithful and spiritual persons, both Elvis and Michael were so passioned by Numerology! I think they studied this "pseudoscience" because they believed it would get them to a better understanding of God's message, it brought them closer to God....
I think Elvis' words explain it best: "People who put down God, don't realize there is an order in the universe: the seasons, the movements of the planets, the harmony of words and numbers. We have no order unless it is by design. -He smiled- And no design without a designer."
But what if he IS telling us what we need to do to understand things more but you're disregarding it because you're 'hung up' on fear or insecurity? Because there is no 'assurance' either way (i.e. we have not and will not hear from Mike directly...until he deems it's time)...then there IS a possibility that he IS 'guiding' us through TS, Front and Back in order to help us understand. No one here can claim to KNOW with 100% certainty that there is NO possibility that this is what's happening. It's been 2.5 years and NO ONE has been able to refute TS' posts with anything substantial. And if the possibility DOES exists...even if in your mind it's only a slight possibility...what harm is there in reading what could very well be coming from Mike? Has TS ever asked anyone for money or for their personal info or to do ANYTHING that would be dangerous? People are so quick to caution about 'reading' TS' posts...yet they have no problem sending their kids off to school everyday to read, learn and be 'taught' half-truths, slanted perspectives and, in many cases, outright lies ("history books ARE full of lies"). I just don't get it
Can someone clarify my questions?I think BEC did a great job at clarifying things related to hoax-Numerology in her post.
I'll try to add my way of understanding and seeing Numerology too.
Bec , I respect your view and you'll see that even though I agree with 80% of what you said, there are some parts where... I can't say I disagree, but maybe I complete what you said with my own perspective....[...]or
These numerical elements that appear with tremendous frequency in all things hoax related could either be
1) coincidences
or
2) by design.
3) by God's will
The following data cannot be explained by the first 2 points mentioned by you, Bec, but in my opinion, these data can only be explained by God's will! While one can plan the dates on which some hoax-events will happen, I think everybody agrees no one can PLAN their own birthday. So there's definitely a 3rd option here - GOD, just my opinion and everything hoax-related had been planned starting from these already divinely set-up numbers. And I will try to explain my opinion and I will give more arguments to sustain my opinion, just below my numerology-demonstration here:
A VERY important hoax-number, occurring very often both in Elvis & MJ hoax [we also saw Dr. Murray wearing a t-shirt with it]
is NUMBER 24 [which is Backwards or Reversed: 42-- the age Elvis "died"]
- 24 = 8 + 8 + 8 or 888 [no. 8 is Elvis' number]
- 42 = 7 + 7 + 7 +7 +7 +7 or 777 777 [no. 7 is Michael's number]
- The 3 most important hoax-numbers sum: 7 + 8 + 9 = 24
- Elvis “death” month + day: 16+8= 24
- Elvis "death"year: 1+9+7+7 = 24
- Elvis comeback in 1968: 1+9+6+8 = 24
- Lisa Marie's birthday year: 1+9+6+8 = 24
- Michael’s birthday-anniversary in 2012: 8 + 2 + 9 + 2 + 1 + 2 = 24
- Michael ‘s birthday-date: 8+2+9+1+9+5+8 = 42 - the age Elvis "died"
- Michael’s “death”-date: 6+ 2 + 5 + 2 + 9 = 24
So Elvis significant numbers 42 & 24 perfectly match the total sums of Michael's birthday-date [42] & death-date [24] How funny! Can it be all a Coincidence? Can it be all just a man-made PLAN? or Does God have a 'hand' in this too?
*** I think that, as Bec said, the hoax is planned based on intentional figures and events meant to happen at a specific time! Why? maybe because:
1. doing everything by the numbers, namely doing calculated things, one can hardly make mistakes! carefully planned, calculated actions = the way to PERFECTION! I think we all know "someone" very dear to all of us, who has always been a PERFECTION seeker!
2. the belief that doing everything by the numbers, and not just any numbers, but the DIVINE ones, ensures the success of the plan
3. doing everything by the numbers represents the perfect proof that nothing was accidental, that there was a plan with a purpose and not just a capricious game
4. doing everything by the numbers made the perfect connection to Elvis' hoax!
and I could go on and on like this....
*** But I also think these intentional figures were not just randomly chosen to plan the hoax, but these numbers were intentionally chosen to fit the divine figures already planned by God. Why would Michael chose no. 7 and not no. 2 , for example? Well here is a possible explanation: The Number 7 in Scripture (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcTnVVV0RIE) and here: THE AMAZING FIRST VERSE OF THE BIBLE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZV0hUldrYp4)
*** I think that both Elvis and Michael, realized that God's perfect creation is based on Numbers: think about how everything surrounding us is all about numbers! the Bible, the musical notes, everything in this world seems to exist because of Numbers! This would explain why, being so faithful and spiritual persons, both Elvis and Michael were so passioned by Numerology! I think they studied this "pseudoscience" because they believed it would get them to a better understanding of God's message, it brought them closer to God....
I think Elvis' words explain it best: "People who put down God, don't realize there is an order in the universe: the seasons, the movements of the planets, the harmony of words and numbers. We have no order unless it is by design. -He smiled- And no design without a designer."
- I marked in red the word "universe" in Elvis' quote because I remember how Lisa Marie, in that Oprah interview about Michael's "death", I remember how at one point she looked upwards saying she's asking the universe (namely God) for answers as to why the circumstances of her father's death and Michael's death "were so identical, play by play by play" !!! I think this speaks volumes about what is happening "behind the curtains" of the hoax!! Who are the designer(s) of this hoax and what Lisa Marie really knows!! ;)
- I marked in purple the word "by design" because I found it interesting that Bec used it in this context, just like Elvis... and something tells me Bec was unaware of this Elvis' quote... Am I right or wrong, Bec? ;)Because we all agree that numerology is a pseudoscience, we accept that their appearances are not divinely inspired. This leaves few possibilities as to WHO designed their inclusion. Many accept that MJ himself designed their inclusion, NOT GOD.I agree...I accept that Elvis and Michael designed their death hoax, BUT by certain numbers that they thought were indicated to them by God.If anyone were touting that god (or even fate) was responsible for these numbers showing up in this hoax, you could refute that theory by offering the fact that numerology is a pseudoscience and you'd be right. [...]Numerology is a pseudoscience, ok.
Fate is not responsible for all numerological connections in the hoax, ok.
God is not responsible for all numerological connections in the hoax, ok.
BUT the numerological connections in the hoax were designed to fit certain God given numbers that influenced the lives and careers of both Elvis & Michael!
^^ This is how I see this whole Numerology trick related to the hoax. Everything is just my opinion, based on my own research that I started doing after reading TS' messages about Numerology.
I don't claim to be right on everything I said here. I may be wrong on certain points, I hope the BAM will clarify everything in the end!
@scorpionchik: I hope i could help you a little bit, since you asked for some clarifications. I tried... I cannot get any clearer than that and I hope that TS will step in to make the necessary corrections and / or to complete with further enlightening information what Bec and I have said here...
This subject really interests me the MOST since it led me to all those fascinating discoveries about Elvis! So I'd be very happy to read more of what TS has to say on Numerology! ;) bearhug
Darling, you did not clarify anythingI never said I did.
you just repeated what has been posted here and there and added your own.Yes, that's what I said myself: "I'll try to add my way of understanding and seeing Numerology too."
Can someone clarify my questions?
No one can answer on my questions.That's a very self assured statement. This means you already found your answers, otherwise you wouldn't be so sure about that. So you must know better. That must be feel great. I am glad for you, darling.
Don't worry about itoh but I don't. I understood now, after your categorical reply, that you are at piece with yourself.
Can someone clarify my questions?I think BEC did a great job at clarifying things related to hoax-Numerology in her post.
I'll try to add my way of understanding and seeing Numerology too.
Bec , I respect your view and you'll see that even though I agree with 80% of what you said, there are some parts where... I can't say I disagree, but maybe I complete what you said with my own perspective....[...]or
These numerical elements that appear with tremendous frequency in all things hoax related could either be
1) coincidences
or
2) by design.
3) by God's will
The following data cannot be explained by the first 2 points mentioned by you, Bec, but in my opinion, these data can only be explained by God's will! While one can plan the dates on which some hoax-events will happen, I think everybody agrees no one can PLAN their own birthday. So there's definitely a 3rd option here - GOD, just my opinion and everything hoax-related had been planned starting from these already divinely set-up numbers. And I will try to explain my opinion and I will give more arguments to sustain my opinion, just below my numerology-demonstration here:
A VERY important hoax-number, occurring very often both in Elvis & MJ hoax [we also saw Dr. Murray wearing a t-shirt with it]
is NUMBER 24 [which is Backwards or Reversed: 42-- the age Elvis "died"]
- 24 = 8 + 8 + 8 or 888 [no. 8 is Elvis' number]
- 42 = 7 + 7 + 7 +7 +7 +7 or 777 777 [no. 7 is Michael's number]
- The 3 most important hoax-numbers sum: 7 + 8 + 9 = 24
- Elvis “death” month + day: 16+8= 24
- Elvis "death"year: 1+9+7+7 = 24
- Elvis comeback in 1968: 1+9+6+8 = 24
- Lisa Marie's birthday year: 1+9+6+8 = 24
- Michael’s birthday-anniversary in 2012: 8 + 2 + 9 + 2 + 1 + 2 = 24
- Michael ‘s birthday-date: 8+2+9+1+9+5+8 = 42 - the age Elvis "died"
- Michael’s “death”-date: 6+ 2 + 5 + 2 + 9 = 24
So Elvis significant numbers 42 & 24 perfectly match the total sums of Michael's birthday-date [42] & death-date [24] How funny! Can it be all a Coincidence? Can it be all just a man-made PLAN? or Does God have a 'hand' in this too?
*** I think that, as Bec said, the hoax is planned based on intentional figures and events meant to happen at a specific time! Why? maybe because:
1. doing everything by the numbers, namely doing calculated things, one can hardly make mistakes! carefully planned, calculated actions = the way to PERFECTION! I think we all know "someone" very dear to all of us, who has always been a PERFECTION seeker!
2. the belief that doing everything by the numbers, and not just any numbers, but the DIVINE ones, ensures the success of the plan
3. doing everything by the numbers represents the perfect proof that nothing was accidental, that there was a plan with a purpose and not just a capricious game
4. doing everything by the numbers made the perfect connection to Elvis' hoax!
and I could go on and on like this....
*** But I also think these intentional figures were not just randomly chosen to plan the hoax, but these numbers were intentionally chosen to fit the divine figures already planned by God. Why would Michael chose no. 7 and not no. 2 , for example? Well here is a possible explanation: The Number 7 in Scripture (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcTnVVV0RIE) and here: THE AMAZING FIRST VERSE OF THE BIBLE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZV0hUldrYp4)
*** I think that both Elvis and Michael, realized that God's perfect creation is based on Numbers: think about how everything surrounding us is all about numbers! the Bible, the musical notes, everything in this world seems to exist because of Numbers! This would explain why, being so faithful and spiritual persons, both Elvis and Michael were so passioned by Numerology! I think they studied this "pseudoscience" because they believed it would get them to a better understanding of God's message, it brought them closer to God....
I think Elvis' words explain it best: "People who put down God, don't realize there is an order in the universe: the seasons, the movements of the planets, the harmony of words and numbers. We have no order unless it is by design. -He smiled- And no design without a designer."
- I marked in red the word "universe" in Elvis' quote because I remember how Lisa Marie, in that Oprah interview about Michael's "death", I remember how at one point she looked upwards saying she's asking the universe (namely God) for answers as to why the circumstances of her father's death and Michael's death "were so identical, play by play by play" !!! I think this speaks volumes about what is happening "behind the curtains" of the hoax!! Who are the designer(s) of this hoax and what Lisa Marie really knows!! ;)
- I marked in purple the word "by design" because I found it interesting that Bec used it in this context, just like Elvis... and something tells me Bec was unaware of this Elvis' quote... Am I right or wrong, Bec? ;)Because we all agree that numerology is a pseudoscience, we accept that their appearances are not divinely inspired. This leaves few possibilities as to WHO designed their inclusion. Many accept that MJ himself designed their inclusion, NOT GOD.I agree...I accept that Elvis and Michael designed their death hoax, BUT by certain numbers that they thought were indicated to them by God.If anyone were touting that god (or even fate) was responsible for these numbers showing up in this hoax, you could refute that theory by offering the fact that numerology is a pseudoscience and you'd be right. [...]Numerology is a pseudoscience, ok.
Fate is not responsible for all numerological connections in the hoax, ok.
God is not responsible for all numerological connections in the hoax, ok.
BUT the numerological connections in the hoax were designed to fit certain God given numbers that influenced the lives and careers of both Elvis & Michael!
^^ This is how I see this whole Numerology trick related to the hoax. Everything is just my opinion, based on my own research that I started doing after reading TS' messages about Numerology.
I don't claim to be right on everything I said here. I may be wrong on certain points, I hope the BAM will clarify everything in the end!
@scorpionchik: I hope i could help you a little bit, since you asked for some clarifications. I tried... I cannot get any clearer than that and I hope that TS will step in to make the necessary corrections and / or to complete with further enlightening information what Bec and I have said here...
This subject really interests me the MOST since it led me to all those fascinating discoveries about Elvis! So I'd be very happy to read more of what TS has to say on Numerology! ;) bearhug
Numerology is important to MJ. Numerology is incorporated throughout the hoax. This indicates that the hoax was created and implemented by design (by someone!=MJ), not by chance (coincidence=dead).
All beliefs regarding numerology are irrelevant, because numerology is not in question. It exists. In MJ's hoax it is everywhere. This is an undisputed fact. The only question remains, WHO incorporated the numerology? Well, probably MJ, right? Who else would?
Perhaps a little off the subject but i do not say to the numbers a pseudo-science, look at these " matches "? With the number phi and what many are calling the geometry of God
"Why is the number of petals of the flowers or the leaves of the plants (filotaxis) are organized by fulfilling this numerical sequence? "Why is the shell of a seashell meets this proportion? "Why the Parthenon greek, the man of - Vitruvius, the Mona Lisa, the ancient pyramids or the UN building are also designed and developed on the basis to Ihp? "Why do hurricanes, whirlpools, galaxies and black holes develop their dynamics on the basis of the proportion ?
• How is it possible that rabbits also occur on the basis of this ratio?
• Did you know that the physical dimensions of the human body also fulfil the aspect ratios given by 1, 6180…?
• How is it possible that the flight of a bird of prey lurking also describes the ellipse marked by this series?
• Why the city of Mecca is located in the geographical position whose distance to the poles and the solstices meets the PHI relationship?
•Podemos even find this amazing series on the aspect ratio of the spiral of DNA and the beating of the heart.
• Where this incredible mathematical knowledge published Leonardo of Pisa (Fibonacci) originates from the 13th century and what is behind it?
Perhaps a little off the subject but i do not say to the numbers a pseudo-science, look at these " matches "? With the number phi and what many are calling the geometry of God
"Why is the number of petals of the flowers or the leaves of the plants (filotaxis) are organized by fulfilling this numerical sequence? "Why is the shell of a seashell meets this proportion? "Why the Parthenon greek, the man of - Vitruvius, the Mona Lisa, the ancient pyramids or the UN building are also designed and developed on the basis to Ihp? "Why do hurricanes, whirlpools, galaxies and black holes develop their dynamics on the basis of the proportion ?
• How is it possible that rabbits also occur on the basis of this ratio?
• Did you know that the physical dimensions of the human body also fulfil the aspect ratios given by 1, 6180…?
• How is it possible that the flight of a bird of prey lurking also describes the ellipse marked by this series?
• Why the city of Mecca is located in the geographical position whose distance to the poles and the solstices meets the PHI relationship?
•Podemos even find this amazing series on the aspect ratio of the spiral of DNA and the beating of the heart.
• Where this incredible mathematical knowledge published Leonardo of Pisa (Fibonacci) originates from the 13th century and what is behind it?
To put it simply......Michael has used the numerology throughout this hoax to show us the entire thing WAS planned from LONG ago and the events which have occurred the past 2.5 years (and probably also some prior to the "death date") are not a coincidence.
To put it simply......Michael has used the numerology throughout this hoax to show us the entire thing WAS planned from LONG ago and the events which have occurred the past 2.5 years (and probably also some prior to the "death date") are not a coincidence.
To put it simply......Michael has used the numerology throughout this hoax to show us the entire thing WAS planned from LONG ago and the events which have occurred the past 2.5 years (and probably also some prior to the "death date") are not a coincidence.You said it very clearly, I'm grateful! :)
To put it simply......Michael has used the numerology throughout this hoax to show us the entire thing WAS planned from LONG ago and the events which have occurred the past 2.5 years (and probably also some prior to the "death date") are not a coincidence.
This is what the TS skeptics who constantly repeat the true statement, "numerology is a psudoscience" fail to understand. I went over this 2 pages ago.
This is what the TS skeptics who constantly repeat the true statement, "numerology is a psudoscience" fail to understand. I went over this 2 pages ago.
I actually said months ago (I think in the old back thread) that I don't get why people call it "numerology", because that's the wrong word for it. Numerology is about numbers and their meaning, reading stuff into numbers, like astrology. The numbers in this case have nothing to do with that, they are more used as a code. So no idea who started to call that "numerology" as it has nothing to do with that.
This is what the TS skeptics who constantly repeat the true statement, "numerology is a psudoscience" fail to understand. I went over this 2 pages ago.
I actually said months ago (I think in the old back thread) that I don't get why people call it "numerology", because that's the wrong word for it. Numerology is about numbers and their meaning, reading stuff into numbers, like astrology. The numbers in this case have nothing to do with that, they are more used as a code. So no idea who started to call that "numerology" as it has nothing to do with that.
she is saying the whys, hows and what the numbers are inspired by is irralevent.
Quote from: SimPattyK[...]TS to me is NOT one who is manipulating in order to gather a congregation of supporters for some unknown agenda but Front, and not to gather a congregation but to have an audience to be entertain with, not the other way around.[...]
2. And if you think that it's not TS the one who manipulates, but only Front, then how do you explain TS validating Front? I mean in this case they either have to be both manipulators/fakers or neither of them!I don´t say that Front is a faker but it is clear that he/she is evasive about giving a straight answer= "I AM NOT MJ PEOPLE"
@MissG: Thank you for your answer.
In my opinion, you don't have a clear perception of neither Front or TS because from what I see in the 2 quotes above ^^ you contradict yourself.
Or maybe it's me who doesn't understand what you want to say. Please help me understand how you see Front.
- In your first statement, you clearly said that TS is not a manipulator, but that Front is a manipulator.
- In your second statement you said that Front is not a faker [it was me who understood that from your first quote, because to me: manipulator =faker], but just an evasive person who is entertained by making people believe he is MJ
So to you, in this given context, being a manipulator does not equal faker?
I mean you consider Front to be a manipulator, but not a faker?
So, what you say is that Front is authentic [insider or MJ], but he's a manipulator because he doesn't clearly say that he is or that he is NOT MJ?
So, by this logic, Front = MJ and/or insider = manipulator = entertained ?
I think you just might be right! :lol: :lol: [hi Mike! hope you're having a great time watching YOUR show! :lol: ]
We finally agree! But I also think that you just don't realize that right now, MissG.
Everybody stand up for him/her but he/she rarely or never stands up for anyone.And who do you want Front to stand up for ?
In your opinion, is there anyone here that needs to be protected by Front?
Are we helpless? Aren't we able to defend ourselves and our opinions against those who contradict us?
We need Front to step in and help us?
I will answer those questions ^^ for myself:
I don't stand up for Front nor for TS.
I stand up for my own beliefs and convictions!
I don't need Front to stand up for me when I have a contradictory conversation with the opponents here.
I think I can do just fine by myself.
What is irrelevant?
MissG, concerning your answer about Michael telling us directly. I think I understand you are doubting that Michael is alive? I am not sure about this maybe you can tell more.
Concerning Michael being kind and loving I totally agree with you on this and this Hoax is proof of that even if it doesn't meet certain people's expectations or assumptions of who is Michael and what he would or wouldn't do. To me this Hoax is proof of Michael's big kinded heart and shows how much he cares for the world. Anyway I may answer more later I need some sleep now. (there should be a sighing smiley lol).
If it is "real" numerology or not makes no difference to the debate.
@Bec & MJonMind - bearhugQuote from: scoprionchikDarling, you did not clarify anythingI never said I did.
I only said: "I hope I could help you a little bit, since you asked for some clarifications. I tried... I cannot get any clearer than that."Quote from: scoprionchikyou just repeated what has been posted here and there and added your own.Yes, that's what I said myself: "I'll try to add my way of understanding and seeing Numerology too."
So I took the information given by TS and I added what I found through my further research.Quote from: scoprionchikCan someone clarify my questions?Quote from: scoprionchikNo one can answer on my questions.That's a very self assured statement. This means you already found your answers, otherwise you wouldn't be so sure about that. So you must know better. That must be feel great. I am glad for you, darling.
I am sorry if I thought your question was for real. I should have taken it as a rhetorical question. Sorry if I bothered you with my long answer.
Quote from: scoprionchikDon't worry about itoh but I don't. I understood now, after your categorical reply, that you are at piece with yourself.
You made me laugh with your explanation :DSo it's reciprocal ;)
Manipulator and faker is not the same.In my opinion, in this hoax-context: manipulator = faker.
I am of the opinion that non of them is Michael.In my opinion, none of them is Michael, but Michael is watching and/or occasionally steps in as Front/TS.
Lol let's play the contradiction game then... we can turn the subject on all sides... :lol:Quote from: SimPattyKSo it´s goes the other way around as well ;)Everybody stand up for him/her but he/she rarely or never stands up for anyone.And who do you want Front to stand up for ?
In your opinion, is there anyone here that needs to be protected by Front?
Are we helpless? Aren't we able to defend ourselves and our opinions against those who contradict us?
We need Front to step in and help us?
I will answer those questions ^^ for myself:
I don't stand up for Front nor for TS.
I stand up for my own beliefs and convictions!
I don't need Front to stand up for me when I have a contradictory conversation with the opponents here.
I think I can do just fine by myself.
Many people as soon as the TS/ Front debate pops up are 100% on his/ her defense, but, they can defense themselves, right?
way too powerfulIn what way?
Quote from: MissGway too powerfulIn what way?
Are you afraid?
even if there are "pages" written, I still didn't understand what power you are talking about. Please, can you be more specific? Give some examples, I am really trying to understand your point of view.The way can be read over pages. Each one to his/her conclusion.Quote from: MissGway too powerfulIn what way?
Both have gained supporters, followers, people who agree with them in a higher % vs "naysayers".1. Why do you think they have gained supporters?
Many members here have posted valid points, smart posts, and a lot of informative deductions regarding MJ his life and the case yet are not as "powerful" or have influenced the rest as TS or Front does.1. Does it really matter that some people are powerful and others are not? I mean as long as you consider all the posts were smart and informative, does it really matter who is powerful and who is not? regardless of that, the reader is enriched, so the purpose is fulfilled.
Of the how come and the why i made up my mind long ago and some thoughts i rather keep to not influence others too much with second opinions.Trust me, I wont be influenced, you can tell me if you want, even if it never occurred to me to ask you that.
No one needs to agree or think alike.I agree and I never said otherwise.
I am ok with others putting certain members on a pedestal but not to impose who to trust or like or enjoy.Yes I think the same.
I like TS´s posts, and Front´s at times, and yours SimpattiK and I value every one the same.Thank you very much. And just know I appreciate yours very much too!
There have been here members who posted a lot of info, quite good posts and never got as many followers.Do you think that "getting many followers" is an important thing?
Some of the posts talked about things that TS have been posting after they made the posts, but people ignored those posts when the others wrote it.Super!! I think this^^ is the best thing you wrote in this message!
That´s power and influenceOk, let's say a user posts something very interesting today and people ignore it , just like you said it happened other times too.
and imo is happening because some members DO BELIEVE that MJ is behind those accounts.1. But do you think that "some members" believe that because they have some reasons to believe it ? or Do you think they have no reasons at all?
Get ma´point now? :)More or less. Thank you for answering.
I do agree with you MissG!
and yours SimpattiK
And JT your purpose of posting that was for what reason? To spread love and peace? Add to the discussion? Or was it to start a little fire?
That's a rhetorical question for anyone who wasn't sure.
Cause I really love all the girls here.afraid/
"I try to be kind and generous and to give to people and to do what I think God wants me to do. Sometimes I pray and say "where do you want me to go next, God? What do you want me to do from here?" I’ve always been very spiritual in that way. It’s nothing new." 2005 At Large with Geraldo Rivera TV Interview
Seth Riggs, "You know, there was one moment. I was playing a piano, and he was standing next to me. All of a sudden, he stretched his hands, looking upwards. It seemed to me that it was very important to him. That’s why I left the room and switched the light off. After half an hour I came back to the room. He was whispering: “Thank you for my talent. Thank you for everything I’ve got. Thank you for all the people who love me. Tell me what I should do, and I’ll do it.” It seemed to me that it was the moment of his communication with God."
http://www.reflectionsonthedance.com/His-Faith.html (http://www.reflectionsonthedance.com/His-Faith.html)
And if you dont mind me interrupting you both, I would like to ask Simpattik a few questions as well :)I don’t mind you stepping in in our discussion and I will gladly answer to your questions.
Does it necessarily mean that people who think otherwise should necessarily be shoved by other people ideas or beliefs down their throats?I’m sorry, please clarify this for me: WHO “shoved anything down the throats” of anyone?? And even if (as you seem to imply), even if someone wanted to do so, please tell me HOW can this possibly be put into practice, for God’s sake? WHO forces anyone to come here and read this forum if they disagree with things being said here?
I just wanted to get some answers from sympatikk cause I was fascinated by her absolute assurance. Really.Assurance? - YES!!
[…]those who tried hard to get rid of those who were skeptical about front in the BACKs thread and constantly showed them the door have been doing exactly the same thing in here.[…] People have created a new thread to not be bashed and not welcomed anymore yet they still are lol[…]
I, for one do like TS, so what? I would never try to make you love him\her!:)WHO tried to make you or anyone else, love TS? And HOW?
[…]those who tried hard to get rid of those who were skeptical about front in the BACKs thread and constantly showed them the door have been doing exactly the same thing in here.[…] People have created a new thread to not be bashed and not welcomed anymore yet they still are lol[…]
Excellent answer, Sim.
He / They will not come here confirm or deny who they are.In my opinion, "they" don't want to "confirm" because they have a well made plan that does not allow them to "confirm" who they are, at least not for now.
So why continue?Freedom of expression?
[...]1. "Lack of concrete answers" - By this you mean you expect Ts or Front to answer concretely: "Yes, I am Michael Jackson posting as TS/Front."?
2) What discredit them? Lack of concrete answers, the non-fulfillment of promises and some absurd theories associated with Elvis and religious themes.
Ah .. yes. And if Michael is alive, there are 99.9% chances for him to know what's going on here.So in case Michael is alive you admit, even better you are 99,9% sure that he knows what's going on here. Well in that case, if you think that TS and Front manipulate people and "play games" with them, do you think that Michael would allow this to happen to his fans? Or wouldn't he rather get involved [unless he had planned it all from the very beginning! including the existence of this forum with its informers] and help them by guiding them through TS and Front? Which way is it?
Excellent answer, Sim.
I concur...wholeheartedly. Great work sis! ::P
And...
(http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/4/3/129148009504305323.jpg)
With L.O.V.E. always.
I am generally a person who has self-confidence, not only in life, but also in hoax-related matters. Why? Because I read, listen, watch and then I think, reflect, check and research.This should be the quote of the day! /bravo/
Therefore, from the moment the above mentioned process is complete, everything that I decide to say or write is because I am convinced of what I think, say or write. I always base my beliefs on personal research and I always sustain my opinions with facts or solid arguments. I don’t just talk for the sake of talking.
But this ^^ doesn’t imply that I ever thought or declared my judgement or my opinions to be absolutely correct! Everytime I write something, I always repeat: I may be right on certain points, but I may be wrong on others! And finally: anyone who is reading me, is also “equipped” with a brain, right? Who stops anyone from checking and doing more research after reading what I write? Just like I always did after reading what other people wrote. And who forces anyone to agree with me or with anyone else?
Ah .. yes. And if Michael is alive, there are 99.9% chances for him to know what's going on here.Yes, and he's been talking up a blue streak, if you haven't noticed!
Excellent answer, Sim.
I concur...wholeheartedly. Great work sis! ::P
And...
(http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/4/3/129148009504305323.jpg)
With L.O.V.E. always.
I just asked simpattyk some questions in the hope of getting some answers but I got only questions inteadNot only you received the answers you deserved, but you were also proven not to be interested in those answers you were supposedly seeking.
Btw, wouldnt it be cool if y'all just took a day off from here and spent some lovely time with your bfs\husbands or friends instead of sitting here all day and all night long fighting with each other and analyzing someone's good or bad intentions?I don't see what is keeping anyone from doing what you suggested.
Where are you, my girl?....Thank you for mentioning that. It was a much "needed" mention. :roll: WTF??
(simpattyk, this is not a question for you ;) )
Ps. there are few girls here. As an FYI to you, because I KNOW you didn't mean it this way, but; in western culture, in pleasant company, when a male refers to a female of adult age as a "girl", it is considered belittling, disrespectful, and an attempt to verbally minimize her status and position thereby raising his own in the process of the exchange*. Males should use the term "woman" or "women" (collective) to prevent a misunderstanding of tone and to convey proper respect in social exchanges. Now that you are made aware of this cultural nuance, I am confident there will be no more future miscommunications like this.
[...]However, at least you have been specific with the members in question with which you had a grievance which allows them an opportunity to respond to your accusations.Thank you for emphasizing that, bec! (http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Respect/number-one-45.gif)
I find it curious, however, that you chose to embed your complaints against Sarahli and Purelove into a question posed at SimPattyK, as if implying that they are a collective entity. That seems counter productive and just fraught with opportunities for all sorts of misunderstandings.
[...]
He / They will not come here confirm or deny who they are.In my opinion, "they" don't want to "confirm" because they have a well made plan that does not allow them to "confirm" who they are, at least not for now.
Or maybe they just don't feel like it. They don't want to. Why force anyone do what they don't want to do? have they forced you do anything that you didn't want to do?So why continue?Freedom of expression?
If this topic had been closed, people (me included) would have screemed : CENSORSHIP.[...]1. "Lack of concrete answers" - By this you mean you expect Ts or Front to answer concretely: "Yes, I am Michael Jackson posting as TS/Front."?
2) What discredit them? Lack of concrete answers, the non-fulfillment of promises and some absurd theories associated with Elvis and religious themes.
I think that this would be the most disappointing BAM ever! :lol: For Michael to BAM on a forum , read by a few hundreds, where only 20-30 people post.
2. "The non-fulfillment of promises" - May I know which promises you are referring to?
3. "Some absurd theories associated with Elvis and religious themes" - Again generalization "some theories". Which theories more exactly? And because I wouldn't like us to flood this topic with discussions about Elvis and religion, AnaMarcia please go to the topics where you found those "absurd theories" and give your arguments for your opinion, there. I am really interested in your point of view. Thank you.Ah .. yes. And if Michael is alive, there are 99.9% chances for him to know what's going on here.So in case Michael is alive you admit, even better you are 99,9% sure that he knows what's going on here. Well in that case, if you think that TS and Front manipulate people and "play games" with them, do you think that Michael would allow this to happen to his fans? Or wouldn't he rather get involved [unless he had planned it all from the very beginning! including the existence of this forum with its informers] and help them by guiding them through TS and Front? Which way is it?
@Bec & BTC : (http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Respect/enaccord8.gif)
He / They will not come here confirm or deny who they are.In my opinion, "they" don't want to "confirm" because they have a well made plan that does not allow them to "confirm" who they are, at least not for now.
Or maybe they just don't feel like it. They don't want to. Why force anyone do what they don't want to do? have they forced you do anything that you didn't want to do?So why continue?Freedom of expression?
If this topic had been closed, people (me included) would have screemed : CENSORSHIP.[...]1. "Lack of concrete answers" - By this you mean you expect Ts or Front to answer concretely: "Yes, I am Michael Jackson posting as TS/Front."?
2) What discredit them? Lack of concrete answers, the non-fulfillment of promises and some absurd theories associated with Elvis and religious themes.
I think that this would be the most disappointing BAM ever! :lol: For Michael to BAM on a forum , read by a few hundreds, where only 20-30 people post.
2. "The non-fulfillment of promises" - May I know which promises you are referring to?
3. "Some absurd theories associated with Elvis and religious themes" - Again generalization "some theories". Which theories more exactly? And because I wouldn't like us to flood this topic with discussions about Elvis and religion, AnaMarcia please go to the topics where you found those "absurd theories" and give your arguments for your opinion, there. I am really interested in your point of view. Thank you.Ah .. yes. And if Michael is alive, there are 99.9% chances for him to know what's going on here.So in case Michael is alive you admit, even better you are 99,9% sure that he knows what's going on here. Well in that case, if you think that TS and Front manipulate people and "play games" with them, do you think that Michael would allow this to happen to his fans? Or wouldn't he rather get involved [unless he had planned it all from the very beginning! including the existence of this forum with its informers] and help them by guiding them through TS and Front? Which way is it?
@Bec & BTC : (http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Respect/enaccord8.gif)
I just asked simpattyk some questions in the hope of getting some answers but I got only questions intead along with quite a full analyze of me and my "tortuous intentions" and not a word on the subject lol That's mostly why I asked about the effects lol
<snip>
oh and about the names I think they know who they are :) But out of respect for you and everyone else here I would say its sarahli :)
Also waving to purelove but seems she hasnt been here too often lately.
ok but in brief, It werent my complaints against Sarahli and purelove and I haven't nursed a grievance against them. If it was the case I would call Anna's name cause I still remember her being not really nice to me and I didnt know why:) but I never have any hard feelings towards women.
Also, Ladies I notice that those who tried hard to get rid of those who were skeptical about front in the BACKs thread and constantly showed them the door have been doing exactly the same thing in here.:) Thats funny:) People have created a new thread to not be bashed and not welcomed anymore yet they still are lol But the funniest thing is that those whos slogan is - Get outta here if you dont like whats been discussed here NEVER follow their own advice lol
Take a leaf from Sousa's book. She is clearly not interested in this thread and doesn't make extremely long posts falling over herself to make you believe she's right and her opinion is a gospel :)
Hello,
Since here is a T.S./T.I.A.I. discussion (I hope I've chosen the right place because I don't post in this forum), I've got a question for anyone who could answer it. Why should I be trusting this theory of the T.I.A.I. and in general T.S. ? Why should anyone believe or not in it ? (No, I am not looking for an answer like ''Take it , or leave it'' ; I want to read why do YOU think this is right..)
I am simply curious about your opinions , it is NOT a bashing or rhetorical question.
And..also one for T.S. , in your opinion , the supposed (so called by you) BAM's day ..could it be the day the real murder is revealed and not the one Michael comes back ?
I am not following any theory , just investigating so I am looking forward to see your answers. typing/
Thanks in advance.
SimPattyK.... Honey,When you accuse me of arrogance and cynicism, please come up with proof of what you say. Give quotes. Let's discuss straight on the MESSAGES written by both of us and not on your convenient INTERPRETATIONS.
I could not understand the arrogance and cynicism about my post.
Do not treat me like an idiot because I'm not, OK?Again, sustain your statements with concrete proof,OK? Stop throwing false accusations instead of coming with reasonable arguments to sustain your statements. Also mind mind your tone! I am not intimidated by tricks like that.
That's how you follow the messages of Michael?And by the way, I consider your calling me "Honey" at least as a hypocrite gesture from you, if not intentionally ironic, since you and I had never ever discussed before, this "intimate, too familiar tone" is clearly NOT a sincere tender loving way of addressing a person, whom you also accuse of some serious things^^
I've been here many months and never had problems with anyone, simply because I try to respect the opinions of others.You imply I didn't respect yours?
I do not want and do not think Michael / TS / Front come here to say who they are ...What do you want , then?
if you read my post right you will see that I said that perhaps many questions remain unanswered,... And I think the identity of these people will be one of them.You seem to have changed your opinion since your last message.
When I say lack of concrete answers I refer to the levels started by TS. For example, we had the answer to level 7? I think not. This is also related to the non-fulfillment of promises, right? At least for me it is.
I thought that I would have time over the holidays for level 7 here; but that didn't happen, sorry.And you said PROMISES in the plural form, right Anamarcia? Where are the other examples?
Obviously, others can continue the investigation here; and I will be back here as soon as I can.
For sure, all three 7's will be done by the end of 2012: Level 7, Update 7, and Sign 7 (777).
:!: :!: :!:
In relation to the theories not credible, I say that to me, saying "For me" Elvis alive theory does not convince me. But even I don't believing in some things I do not totally disbelieve in TS.And I said: "AnaMarcia please go to the topics where you found those "absurd theories" and give your arguments for your opinion, there. I am really interested in your point of view. Thank you."
So, if you read my comment right,Sorry do you imply, for a second time, that I can't read right?
you will reach the conclusion that I did not say anything against TS / Front ... I did not say that they are false or manipulator, in fact I was more in favor than against, right?NOT right!
One day, if we found that TS is false, he yet has my admiration for his intelligence.There you go, we finally agree on something.
Finally, if I said that Michael probably know what happens here, do not you think I meant something like "If Michael knows that there are these insiders here .... this is a great point in favor of them?" I said That, darling.Funny how when you accused me your English was perfect! than here where you play pretend not to know English so well, darling!.
I did not wanna to answer you, but I don't like to be misunderstood, especially when my messages are so clear.
Perhaps you don't understood my english, Sorry!
Keep your stones at the right time to use them and try to respect opinions and be humble in the right dose. This certainly facilitates relationships.Oh really! And you tell this to whom?
I think it's better to continue as I was until today ... just watching the forum without saying a word!And here we go with the victimizing role! You attack, yet you act as a victim. It's classic!
Ok ok let's try not to get too heated and off subject here. We can get back to that respectful discussion, right?Good idea!
Both have gained supporters, followers, people who agree with them in a higher % vs "naysayers".1. Why do you think they have gained supporters?
2. Do you think those supporters are their victims?
3. Do you think those supporters are easily manipulated individuals?
4. Do you think the number of their supporters is great? How great, approximately?
5. Do you think that the number of their supporters is indicative of that power you were talking about?Many members here have posted valid points, smart posts, and a lot of informative deductions regarding MJ his life and the case yet are not as "powerful" or have influenced the rest as TS or Front does.1. Does it really matter that some people are powerful and others are not? I mean as long as you consider all the posts were smart and informative, does it really matter who is powerful and who is not? regardless of that, the reader is enriched, so the purpose is fulfilled.
2. According to you that power means the power of attraction? You think that what makes TS/Front powerful is that people are attracted to them?
3. Do you think it is a bad thing that people are attracted to TS/Front?
4. According to you what are or what could be the dangers / negative effects of this attraction/power?
5. Do you think that because TS/Front are powerful, they can force people of doing something bad? In what way can/could TS/Front force people to read their messages? and/or do something bad?
6. To what extent do you think their power goes?Of the how come and the why i made up my mind long ago and some thoughts i rather keep to not influence others too much with second opinions.Trust me, I wont be influenced, you can tell me if you want, even if it never occurred to me to ask you that.No one needs to agree or think alike.I agree and I never said otherwise.
The reason why I am having this dialogue with you is not intended to have you agreeing with me nor vice-versa.
I only want to understand how you view things, what makes you doubt and I find very interesting the way you think, it arouses my interest the more I read you.I am ok with others putting certain members on a pedestal but not to impose who to trust or like or enjoy.Yes I think the same.
But who imposed those things and to whom?I like TS´s posts, and Front´s at times, and yours SimpattiK and I value every one the same.Thank you very much. And just know I appreciate yours very much too!There have been here members who posted a lot of info, quite good posts and never got as many followers.Do you think that "getting many followers" is an important thing?Some of the posts talked about things that TS have been posting after they made the posts, but people ignored those posts when the others wrote it.Super!! I think this^^ is the best thing you wrote in this message!
And whose fault is that, according to you?
Is it really TS' or Front's fault that people are more receptive and pay more attention to the person who delivers the message than to the message in itself?That´s power and influenceOk, let's say a user posts something very interesting today and people ignore it , just like you said it happened other times too.
In this case: how are TS or Front guilty for this? How can they influence people to ignore that interesting post?and imo is happening because some members DO BELIEVE that MJ is behind those accounts.1. But do you think that "some members" believe that because they have some reasons to believe it ? or Do you think they have no reasons at all?
2. In case you think they have no reasons at all: can you at least admit that maybe it's you who doesn't understand/see their reasons? even if there's "pages" of them?!
I mean you're entitled to think they have no reasons to believe that MJ is behind TS/Front and nobody has the right to force you to think otherwise. But we can at least talk about it , right?
So what I'm saying is that the fact that you don't see/understand those reasons, it doesn't mean they do not exist.
3. If you believe that Michael is alive, how do you see him now? Do you think he will ever come back? Do you think he has a plan or do you think he faked his death and now he's living happily ever after in his hidden place?
4. In your opinion, Michael would never try to contact his fans via family-clues and or Internet? Do you think he just got it all out of his head once he "died" for the rest of the world?
5. In case you think that Michael still wants to come back and keep contact with his fans, how do you think he would do that?Get ma´point now? :)More or less. Thank you for answering.
Much LOVE to you!
[...]I've got a question for anyone who could answer it. Why should I be trusting this theory of the T.I.A.I. and in general T.S. ?This is not an answer, this is just my opinion I'm giving you: You shouldn't trust this theory and any other theory and you shouldn't trust TS nor anyone else.
I want to read why do YOU think this is right..)If you want to find out why this theory is right or wrong, then you should seek for this answer yourself.
[...]
Well, I’m sticking to my over-all heart feeling that as God channelled MJ’s music and lyrics, He also channelled the numerology/code plan, it’s beauty and complexity, and gave him the ability and protection in bringing it to fullfillment. When you consider the busyiness/demands/stresses/dangers of his life--that is near to impossible on a human level IMO. I don't think anything on this scale has been accomplished (that's including Elvis mind you). I believe it’s all a part of his calling from God, and a Biblical fullfillment, that I believe will be more revealed as time goes by. You agree there are numbers throughout the Scriptures, as well as in the layout of the accepted canon of the Bible. I disagree that number patterns are occultic but can be used for good or evil. God can do whatever he wants. Just like Michaelangelo's, Mozart's and more, MJ's gifts and number plan came from God. He could see it before his eyes and wrote it down, worked with it, babied it, toyed with it till it was fine-tuned. Most of all--he was completely committed to doing what God wanted him to do, and it was all for L.O.V.E. It still means MJ is a genius, but it was with "help".Quote"I try to be kind and generous and to give to people and to do what I think God wants me to do. Sometimes I pray and say "where do you want me to go next, God? What do you want me to do from here?" I’ve always been very spiritual in that way. It’s nothing new." 2005 At Large with Geraldo Rivera TV InterviewQuoteSeth Riggs, "You know, there was one moment. I was playing a piano, and he was standing next to me. All of a sudden, he stretched his hands, looking upwards. It seemed to me that it was very important to him. That’s why I left the room and switched the light off. After half an hour I came back to the room. He was whispering: “Thank you for my talent. Thank you for everything I’ve got. Thank you for all the people who love me. Tell me what I should do, and I’ll do it.” It seemed to me that it was the moment of his communication with God."
http://www.reflectionsonthedance.com/His-Faith.html (http://www.reflectionsonthedance.com/His-Faith.html)
Hello,
Since here is a T.S./T.I.A.I. discussion (I hope I've chosen the right place because I don't post in this forum), I've got a question for anyone who could answer it. Why should I be trusting this theory of the T.I.A.I. and in general T.S. ? Why should anyone believe or not in it ? (No, I am not looking for an answer like ''Take it , or leave it'' ; I want to read why do YOU think this is right..)
I am simply curious about your opinions , it is NOT a bashing or rhetorical question.
And..also one for T.S. , in your opinion , the supposed (so called by you) BAM's day ..could it be the day the real murder is revealed and not the one Michael comes back ?
I am not following any theory , just investigating so I am looking forward to see your answers. typing/
Thanks in advance.
Quote from: E on January 20, 2012, 01:57:19 PM (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=22007.msg385956#msg385956)Hello,
Since here is a T.S./T.I.A.I. discussion (I hope I've chosen the right place because I don't post in this forum), I've got a question for anyone who could answer it. Why should I be trusting this theory of the T.I.A.I. and in general T.S. ? Why should anyone believe or not in it ? (No, I am not looking for an answer like ''Take it , or leave it'' ; I want to read why do YOU think this is right..)
I am simply curious about your opinions , it is NOT a bashing or rhetorical question.
And..also one for T.S. , in your opinion , the supposed (so called by you) BAM's day ..could it be the day the real murder is revealed and not the one Michael comes back ?
I am not following any theory , just investigating so I am looking forward to see your answers.
Thanks in advance.
I will not comment on TS' subjects from now, read them or check them. Because this was the proof of what is behind all this. Not what's behind Michael's hoax, but what's behind TS' character. For me this was the last proof. I will not be part of this. It is scary - because I simply don't understand who this character is, why he came here and why he chose Michael's subject. Enough.
AnaMarcia, I appreciate that your tone was helpful in defusing a possibly rising situation. I think sometimes when there is a language barrier, there can be frustrations and wrong interpretations leading to tones that can appear hostile.
Post #82
TIAI revealed, part 6
Then what about the MJ “Return” to public view, when will that be? Well, the sad thing is that potentially he could’ve returned at Halloween; but we were not ready. We did not understand the NWO conspiracy aspect of the hoax, or the seriousness of it; in fact, the old MJHD was forbidding discussion on this subject! And just a few days later, it went down and was out for about a week. We simply were not ready for MJ to return yet; if he had, in all the excitement, people would’ve had little or no interest in studying into the NWO aspects of the hoax.
Since people were not ready for the MJ return at Halloween: immediately after the TII movie was released, TIAI was set up. The purpose of TIAI was (and still is) to give MJ fans, and especially hoax believers, a better understanding and bigger picture of the hoax and the reasons for it; this in turn would help prepare the way for the MJ “Return”!
My remark:
Maybe I'm off topic but I would like to point out the red parts in TS' post. As I've said before, I was never a follower of TS, doesn't mean that I assume that he is fake, not at all, but to me it wasn't necessary to follow him to learn more about the hoax. What strikes me as very strange is that TS is saying that WE were not ready for a return, otherwise Michael COULD HAVE returned/bammed at Halloween!!! In 2009!!!! What he is saying that we first had to learn more about NWO aspects of the Hoax. And now, TWO years later, knowing much more about NWO and many many other aspects, are we still not ready??? Ofcourse, there could be many other aspects and problems Michael faced during these past two years, so maybe HE is the one now who is not ready to return (if he will return at all), but that's not what TS implies in his post. He specifically is saying that it's US, WE are not ready.
Maybe I'm reading it all wrong, and I don't want to accuse TS in any way, but I feel this is striking remark of him that contradicts the sequel of the hoax.
I hope members over here are not mad at me for writing this, we agreed that, as long as we discuss things in a respectful way, we could ask anything. Like I've said, I know not too much about TS and maybe he proved himself right for many times now, but this is very odd to me.
Post #97
Your reply:
Do, in your TS posts.
I agree that TS is saying that by and large many hoaxers on this site are not ready for MJ's return because they haven’t bothered to read his posts, to even begin to understand the reasons for the hoax and the nature of his return and BAM, relating to the EOW and NOW. And yes, I agree this hoax parallels OTHER things in history, many things, because it is a genius masterful plan, channelled from God, IMO. This is it! On so many levels.
Who critiques something who hasn't even bothered to read and re-read something in its entirety? That's like tabloid trash!
Post #150
My reply to you:
MJonmind, it was absolutely NOT my intension to upset people with my question/remark. You are right, I shouldn't have opened my mouth without exactly knowing what I was talking about. When I read the post of Paula, this was only something that I noticed. When I said that I wasn't a follower of TS, I didn't mean that I haven't read ANY of his posts, because I have. I interpreted the post like it was ONLY BECAUSE OF US and our not-knowing/understanding, otherwise Michael had returned already. Like there weren't any other major and important reasons which caused Michael to hoax his death, than to learn us, a relatively small group of hoaxers, about NWO, the media, child abuse, you name it. That was strange to me, I hope you understand what I'm saying, I have a hard time explaing myself in English.
@Bec, thank you for your explanation.
@PaulaC, I know that you posted for an entire other reason, I'm sorry that I used it for my question.
@Anna, I'm sorry that I was off-topic with my question.
No hard feelings? I will not interfere again!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doomsday_cult
To read the bible is one thing, but to create conditionated fear by a belief can have serious consequences.
@Simpattik,Thank you MissG for your answer. And pls don't feel pressured to answer to all those questions...take your time.
I, some day, will answer ALL the questions you made :) but not today. Just realized there are too many. Wow, you are motivated!
I´ll post this here. I am kind of shocked to find out what the phuck has Michael Jackson Death to do with this...
[...]
The post said in resume accept Jesus and God or die
@MissG...thanks for your reply. As I suspected, it's a difference in interpretation, which I guess is to be expected because we will all interpret it in our own way based on several factors.
Based on your interpretation, you concluded that:QuoteThe post said in resume accept Jesus and God or die
I didn't interpret it at all in that way...and I may have missed it, but nowhere in the post did I see TS specifically say that. If he didn't, then you are 'inferring' or 'interpreting' that. I interpreted it as 'taking sides'... being on the 'right' side vs. the 'wrong' side (good vs. evil, etc). None of that portion of the post is 'news' to me...I think most people try to live their lives on the 'good' side of things...regardless of a belief in a higher power.
Could you quote what part of the post you are referring to in the above quote?
Again, I'm just trying to 'see' it from a different perspective...and we seem to be seeing it quite differently. (Not sure if we should keep posting in this thread or move it over to the other).
@Sim...yes, I have also learned to 'let it simmer' before making any rash 'judgements' or decisions...not only with TS' posts but with everything in life.
With L.O.V.E. always.
yes, I have also learned to 'let it simmer' before making any rash 'judgements' or decisions...not only with TS' posts but with everything in life.
Those with a "weak and humble" mind would fall in to it, as depressed people or people who joined this forum after MJ´s death, because they were depressed, hurt and lost. [...]:shock: :shock::shock:
The difference between some of us is that many have their minds already formed and in no way there is a place for a change in beliefs of thoughts and others are still vulnerable.Please give examples of those "vulnerable members". If you are so concerned about them, maybe you should address to them directly and help them see what you see.
:roll: Allow me to doubt that Illuminati or any other fanatic ...occult clan would even move a finger for 2-3 people! It's really NOT worth it!Quote from: simpattik"I can't see why such clever people , able to use so "manipulative , mind controlling" techniques, why were they so dumb as to waste their time and their intelligence here on this small audience-forum?"1,2,3 is better than 0. there is no need to be 100.
I am aware that many people have changed their faith already from agnostic to believing. Just read Souza´s blog as an example.And do you think it's a bad thing for people to start trusting in God?
And no, sympattik, I am not as motivated. I believe my posts are short and clear and feel just explaining my points over and over. I am tired.is there any competition of who is more or less motivated? or who has shorter or clearer messages? or what? suspicious//
At the end of his post he says something like, if you are neutral you will be considered to be on Satan's side. I think.As I said in a previous message, I am being neutral for the moment regarding TS post! until I can analyze, check, research everything.
[...] at no point when reading his post (and it took about an hour) did I feel 'fear' of any kind. Confusion, questions, uncertainties...yes, but not 'conditioned fear'[...]+1 ;)
I tell you what, I can't get down with the God stuff. If I'm on Satan's side unless I get with it, well, in a handbasket I go.I fully agree with everything you say about this life, and the system, especially because I am pretty much in the same situation as you.
I already know I'm going to work like a dog until the day I die. No retirement package will ever be mine. I already know I'll likely die sick and poor. Can't afford health insurance so that means no health care either. I can forget about those sunny beach vacations so many people seem to get. Never in the budget. The system has me by the proverbial balls, there is no escape, KAPISHE?
I don't think it behooves me to spend the little free time that I get focused on the end of the world nor on the Illuminati. I'm aware we are in peril. I'm aware the system sucks, oh TRUST me I'm aware. I need to spend my personal time on positive pursuits, some escape from that doom n gloom that is the world we all live in.
AnaMarcia, I appreciate that your tone was helpful in defusing a possibly rising situation. I think sometimes when there is a language barrier, there can be frustrations and wrong interpretations leading to tones that can appear hostile.
Then practice what you preach!
I'm sorry, I had to get this of off my chest!
Because I didn't have the feeling I was rude in my post, yet you attacked me on it, and when I appologized, you didn't even bother to answer me. But it's okay.QuotePost #82
TIAI revealed, part 6
Then what about the MJ “Return” to public view, when will that be? Well, the sad thing is that potentially he could’ve returned at Halloween; but we were not ready. We did not understand the NWO conspiracy aspect of the hoax, or the seriousness of it; in fact, the old MJHD was forbidding discussion on this subject! And just a few days later, it went down and was out for about a week. We simply were not ready for MJ to return yet; if he had, in all the excitement, people would’ve had little or no interest in studying into the NWO aspects of the hoax.
Since people were not ready for the MJ return at Halloween: immediately after the TII movie was released, TIAI was set up. The purpose of TIAI was (and still is) to give MJ fans, and especially hoax believers, a better understanding and bigger picture of the hoax and the reasons for it; this in turn would help prepare the way for the MJ “Return”!
My remark:
Maybe I'm off topic but I would like to point out the red parts in TS' post. As I've said before, I was never a follower of TS, doesn't mean that I assume that he is fake, not at all, but to me it wasn't necessary to follow him to learn more about the hoax. What strikes me as very strange is that TS is saying that WE were not ready for a return, otherwise Michael COULD HAVE returned/bammed at Halloween!!! In 2009!!!! What he is saying that we first had to learn more about NWO aspects of the Hoax. And now, TWO years later, knowing much more about NWO and many many other aspects, are we still not ready??? Ofcourse, there could be many other aspects and problems Michael faced during these past two years, so maybe HE is the one now who is not ready to return (if he will return at all), but that's not what TS implies in his post. He specifically is saying that it's US, WE are not ready.
Maybe I'm reading it all wrong, and I don't want to accuse TS in any way, but I feel this is striking remark of him that contradicts the sequel of the hoax.
I hope members over here are not mad at me for writing this, we agreed that, as long as we discuss things in a respectful way, we could ask anything. Like I've said, I know not too much about TS and maybe he proved himself right for many times now, but this is very odd to me.QuotePost #97
Your reply:
Do, in your TS posts.
I agree that TS is saying that by and large many hoaxers on this site are not ready for MJ's return because they haven’t bothered to read his posts, to even begin to understand the reasons for the hoax and the nature of his return and BAM, relating to the EOW and NOW. And yes, I agree this hoax parallels OTHER things in history, many things, because it is a genius masterful plan, channelled from God, IMO. This is it! On so many levels.
Who critiques something who hasn't even bothered to read and re-read something in its entirety? That's like tabloid trash!QuotePost #150
My reply to you:
MJonmind, it was absolutely NOT my intension to upset people with my question/remark. You are right, I shouldn't have opened my mouth without exactly knowing what I was talking about. When I read the post of Paula, this was only something that I noticed. When I said that I wasn't a follower of TS, I didn't mean that I haven't read ANY of his posts, because I have. I interpreted the post like it was ONLY BECAUSE OF US and our not-knowing/understanding, otherwise Michael had returned already. Like there weren't any other major and important reasons which caused Michael to hoax his death, than to learn us, a relatively small group of hoaxers, about NWO, the media, child abuse, you name it. That was strange to me, I hope you understand what I'm saying, I have a hard time explaing myself in English.
@Bec, thank you for your explanation.
@PaulaC, I know that you posted for an entire other reason, I'm sorry that I used it for my question.
@Anna, I'm sorry that I was off-topic with my question.
No hard feelings? I will not interfere again!
In your post #214, you addressed a lot, but not my apologies.
confused/
@Simpattik,
Misleading, brainwashing technique based on fear. It has NOTHING to do with Michael Jackson. NOTHING.
Be ready for the EOW? really?....well, be ready for the end of your life (our lives) every day, because since we are born we are dying slowly and that day will come sooner or later, that we are sure about.
Playing the fear card on people is so low, TS.
Jesus, Mohammed or the green rabbit cannot make things better or worst as they are already.
People, focus in living your life happy and loving each other as you feel like it instead of getting afraid whit those theories which only agenda is to make you change your mind, faith or beliefs.
Do as you feel but don´t take TS´s words as "the gospel". Be objective and think for yourself.
Do, I totally apologize for not responding to you. I never thought I was attacking you at all, so I didn't even realize there was a problem. I mentioned twice that I was agreeing with you in my first paragraph directed to you, thinking positive thoughts towards your post! So I'm feeling a little confused. The general discussion back then was a lot of criticism of TS by people who didn't even read his posts, so my final statement about tabloid trash was to those specific people, not necessarily you. There's been so much to read lately, it's been hard to keep up with all the threads, plus I work half the week, so on those days I can't read as much.
Very sorry! Please no hard feelings?
bearhug
@MissG...thanks for your reply. As I suspected, it's a difference in interpretation, which I guess is to be expected because we will all interpret it in our own way based on several factors.
Based on your interpretation, you concluded that:QuoteThe post said in resume accept Jesus and God or die
I didn't interpret it at all in that way...and I may have missed it, but nowhere in the post did I see TS specifically say that. If he didn't, then you are 'inferring' or 'interpreting' that. I interpreted it as 'taking sides'... being on the 'right' side vs. the 'wrong' side (good vs. evil, etc). None of that portion of the post is 'news' to me...I think most people try to live their lives on the 'good' side of things...regardless of a belief in a higher power.
Could you quote what part of the post you are referring to in the above quote?
Again, I'm just trying to 'see' it from a different perspective...and we seem to be seeing it quite differently. (Not sure if we should keep posting in this thread or move it over to the other).
@Sim...yes, I have also learned to 'let it simmer' before making any rash 'judgements' or decisions...not only with TS' posts but with everything in life.
With L.O.V.E. always.
I will next time i connect! time to sleep now.
Those with a "weak and humble" mind would fall in to it, as depressed people or people who joined this forum after MJ´s death, because they were depressed, hurt and lost. [...]:shock: :shock::shock:
@MissG I'm shocked by your statement!! Is THAT your opinion about people who joined this forum?
Besides the offensive aspect of your statement (even if I know you do not refer to ALL the members, at least I hope so!), so besides this, in my opinion it makes no sense, because the biggest difference between beLIEvers and non-beLIEvers has always been this:
1. beLIEvers have always remained optimistic, full of faith, in their clear and calm state of minds , which helped them investigate and cleverly find more and more proves of Michael being alive. So totally the opposite of what you're saying.
2. non-beLIEvers have always remained blinded by their grief, they've been depressed, always nervous and hateful, enraged either towards the beLIEvers or Conrad Murray (some even demanding his death) , many manifested hatred towards MJ's family, etc....
So to say what you said about people who joined this forum, in my opinion is just as if you said that non-beLIEvers joined MJDHI suspicious// because IMO your characterization fits a non-believer's profile! especially the "weak and humble mind" part.The difference between some of us is that many have their minds already formed and in no way there is a place for a change in beliefs of thoughts and others are still vulnerable.Please give examples of those "vulnerable members". If you are so concerned about them, maybe you should address to them directly and help them see what you see.:roll: Allow me to doubt that Illuminati or any other fanatic ...occult clan would even move a finger for 2-3 people! It's really NOT worth it!Quote from: simpattik"I can't see why such clever people , able to use so "manipulative , mind controlling" techniques, why were they so dumb as to waste their time and their intelligence here on this small audience-forum?"1,2,3 is better than 0. there is no need to be 100.I am aware that many people have changed their faith already from agnostic to believing. Just read Souza´s blog as an example.And do you think it's a bad thing for people to start trusting in God?
I think that whatever helps people have greater faith in God is a good thing. I don't see anything bad , hidden, occult effect coming out from this. My faith in God increased since the beginning of this hoax! And I haven't followed TS from the beginning, only later.. besides that I am happier than ever with what i discovered from this hoax and from TS posts as well !
And I don't feel manipulated in any way and whatever happens I won't let myself dragged into any occult sect or clan, in case in the end, TIAI proves to be just that. I would continue with my investigation into MJ & Elvis hoax and I will go on with my life. Nothing changes whether TS is a fake or the real deal!And no, sympattik, I am not as motivated. I believe my posts are short and clear and feel just explaining my points over and over. I am tired.is there any competition of who is more or less motivated? or who has shorter or clearer messages? or what? suspicious//At the end of his post he says something like, if you are neutral you will be considered to be on Satan's side. I think.As I said in a previous message, I am being neutral for the moment regarding TS post! until I can analyze, check, research everything.
Plus, the statement you are referring at, has nothing to do with what people think about TS posts. At least this is my opinion. It has more to do with having faith in God.[...] at no point when reading his post (and it took about an hour) did I feel 'fear' of any kind. Confusion, questions, uncertainties...yes, but not 'conditioned fear'[...]+1 ;)
I don't think this TS is the same TS we have been dealing with for the past 2.5 years. I don't know how or why that would be, but I have a suspicion that this is not the same person that posted the Updates and then later the Levels.
Well, Bec. You are a mod and can check ip´s. I know that ip´s are not accurate anyway and can be hidden up behind the real one but to think that this TS is not the original one does not fit.
For how long have you been visiting chats, forums, youtube or similar regarding this matter?Long enough to see that believers are everything but "weak, vulnerable and depressed" people as you say.
Michael was a man respecting all faiths and beliefs and to not believe in something is also a belief,
so why would Michael be so unrespectfull to the ones who decide not to be a part of it?
What´s all that condition about?
Nah, i don´t buy it. I support Michael as a person and that post of TS has nothing to do with it.
-----
If one wants to believe in God, it needs to happen by conviction of thought and beliefs,
not for fear that the world would end and guilt that one wasn´t on "the good side"
[...]I choose go to hell and being on Lucifer's side, but not to be led by this paranoid shepherd --:shock:
who is but a typical second-generation religious fanatic -- to a some illusory 'salvation.' Pffft.
What do you make out of this then, Sarahli?
"Fortunately, if someone starts to oppose this truth now, there is still a little time left to get back on the right side, before it’s too late. However, opposition usually works like a very powerful inertia; once someone starts opposing something, it is very difficult to change directions later. So be extremely careful before you decide to oppose this message, or saying anything that would prejudice others against it."
"If you take the side of the true ark, then you are on Michael’s side of the Armageddon battle; if you chose to go against the true ark—or even if you take a position of neutral indifference—then you are on Lucifer’s side of Armageddon (see Matthew 12:30; Luke 11:23). Nobody will be drafted to fight for the truth, it’s a volunteer army; but those who don’t voluntarily enlist on the side of truth, will be on the other side of the battle, whether they intend to or not. There will be only two sides. “If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.”
"faith that will conquer Lucifer and all who take sides with him"
To me sounds like either believe or go to feed the maggots.
I believe in what I want to and that does not mean to be against Michael or not on his side.
Michael was a man respecting all faiths and beliefs and to not believe in something is also a belief, so why would Michael be so unrespectfull to the ones who decide not to be a part of it? What´s all that condition about?
Nah, i don´t buy it. I support Michael as a person and that post of TS has nothing to do with it.
[...] I think we need to take this more figuratively than literally and not make it so complex.Excellent post Sarahli !! /bravo/
[...]
Also, perhaps this is a “test” to see if we can distinguish the “true from the fake” (Ark). I think this correlates to the Hoax in the sense of “real” MJ vs “fake” death/hoax/MJ (the corpse, autopsy photo, recordings, etc.)
I think TS is saying not to be too quick to dismiss things without careful study, to carefully weigh up the information presented. Yes to really think for yourself.
[...]
AgainLucifer to me simply represents TBTB in the world, those who rule by ignorance and selfish motives for their own gain and “they don’t really care about us”.
Regarding not choosing which side you are on in this figurative battle of Armageddon, then it's possible that one will get caught up in the whirlwind of what represents the darker forces in our world. So it's important in my opinion to not be too quick to judge here, and to at least take time to read and investigate what's being presented, we might need this in the near future.
At the end of his post he says something like, if you are neutral you will be considered to be on Satan's side. I think.As I said in a previous message, I am being neutral for the moment regarding TS post! until I can analyze, check, research everything.
Plus, the statement you are referring at, has nothing to do with what people think about TS posts. At least this is my opinion. It has more to do with having faith in God.[/b]
[...]I LOVE you BTC!!! Thank you for speaking out my heart!! bearhug
The FACT that you are 100% wrong in your interpretation/assumptions regarding 'me' as a member here and how I'm 'affected' by TS....leaves the door wide open on the possibility that you are also wrong about many others here as well. Those who are 'weak', as you described them, have issues or problems that extend WAY beyond TS or anyone else who posts here. Based on the many posts I've read here by MANY members...I honestly think that you are greatly UNDER-estimating the intelligence of most.
The quote that you've mentioned a few times from TS' post....that YOU have interpreted as being an 'indoctrination' of some sort (i.e. about choosing sides)...is NOT something that TS pulled out of his ass, nor is it 'news' to me or ANYONE who has at least a 'working knowledge' of the Bible. TS is simply stating what has been 'common knowledge' (for centuries) to many who read, understand and follow the Bible...and that would INCLUDE Mike. You, I and/or anyone else don't HAVE to believe what TS says in that quote to be 'truth'...but to insinuate or suggest that TS is the 'author' or 'creator' of the sentiments in that quote, is just as wrong as insinuating or suggesting that people aren't able to 'think for themselves'.
The quote that you've mentioned a few times from TS' post....that YOU have interpreted as being an 'indoctrination' of some sort (i.e. about choosing sides)...is NOT something that TS pulled out of his ass, [...]LMFAO !! :lol: :lol: :lol:
I don't think this TS is the same TS we have been dealing with for the past 2.5 years. I don't know how or why that would be, but I have a suspicion that this is not the same person that posted the Updates and then later the Levels.
[...]I didn't want you to tell me if to trust or not TS (because that's def. a personal choice), [...]Everyone here said the same thing: it's a personal choice. Who said otherwise?
I simply wanted your opinion on it..thanks anyway for trying to help.I think "the opinion" is pretty much obvious. There are 3 groups of people on this forum, each with their own 3 distinct opinions:
[...]I was interested more in the psychological part of this story.This ^^ meaning what? more precisely?