Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators
Hoax Investigation => The Death Certificate, The Autopsy Report & The Will => After June 25, 2009 => Michael's Death Certificate => Topic started by: ClineMJJ on December 24, 2009, 06:02:30 PM
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Well, i'm a little confused about the second name. In the death certificate, it's "Joseph" but in a lot of others administrative papers ( From court, on his license, passeport, etc...) it's "Joe". Sombedoy ( who doesn't live in USA ) told me that in USA, you can use a diminutive for your second name in some papers, so MJ's real second name is Joseph but it sometimes uses joe as a diminutive because of lack of place on the paper. Sooo, two are right. But, here there are real americans so I wanna really know if you can really use a diminutive on all administratives documents ? Do you understand what I mean coz my english isn't PERFECT ! Thank you :D
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I thought this was being discussed somewhere...
What me bothers at the moment in this Joe/Joseph case... If he was really born as Joseph, why would his father use Joe in Michael's Motown contract?
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I am an American and have always been instructed that official legal documents-human resource info, insurance information, drivers license, or any other legal documents had to be signed with one's given legal name only.
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Well, I think I have my answer. And, if his real name was "Joseph", whi did he use "Joe" on his driver license ? Ok, thank you for your answers guys :) I think the guy who told me that you use diminutive in USA just wanna have the final word ...
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His mother also said "Michael Joe" in her book. :?:
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Yes, why does she use a diminutive in a book ? This have no sens
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I have read "Moonwwalk" recently and Michael says (in his own words): "I was born in Gary, Indianna, on alate summer night in 1958... My father JOE JACKSON, was born in Arkansas and in 1949 he married my mother...", "All those styles were amazing and each had an influence on Joe and on us...", "Joe Jackson had always loved singing and music...". On the contrary, he doesn't mention, not even for once, the name "Joseph"!!!
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But, on the other hand, check this out... :?
http://www.joseph-jackson.de/ (http://www.joseph-jackson.de/)
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Michael said on WMA 2006: I would like to thank my father Joseph Jackson.
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:)
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I was just on myspace (which I have not been on in months) and something made me check out "The Greatest Milestone's" page again and this picture of a legal document (contract) once again got me to thinking about the whole Joe/Joseph controversy from a while back. I was not able to get on here for a while and did not know if this had ever been figured out. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Also I do not know how to insert an image so I will give you the link:
http://www.myspace.com/peterpanpyt/phot ... 4217742%7D (http://www.myspace.com/peterpanpyt/photos/3958955#%7B%22ImageId%22%3A14217742%7D)
Thanks so much.
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I know this is all old for you here, but all new for me...
LOL
But there is a huge red stamp on the document stating " Informational, not a valid document to establish identity "
- Are there any new news about this?
And look at the symbol down att the right bottom of the document (snakes?) I have seen that symbol somewhere!
http://michaeljacksonfuneral.org/death-certificate.pdf (http://michaeljacksonfuneral.org/death-certificate.pdf)
And this:
No place of interment is listed. A ‘temp’ place could be a church. A ‘temporary’ location is not a proper location on a California death certificate.
California Health and Safety Code Section 7009 defines “Interment”:
“‘Interment’ means the disposition of human remains by entombment or burial in a cemetery or, in the case of cremated remains, by inurnment, placement or burial in a cemetery, or burial at sea [].”
“Temp” is not a valid disposition.
- I don't really know what that means, but the words temporary and not valid....
Any new news on this?
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I was just on myspace (which I have not been on in months) and something made me check out "The Greatest Milestone's" page again and this picture of a legal document (contract) once again got me to thinking about the whole Joe/Joseph controversy from a while back. I was not able to get on here for a while and did not know if this had ever been figured out. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Also I do not know how to insert an image so I will give you the link:
http://www.myspace.com/peterpanpyt/phot ... 4217742%7D (http://www.myspace.com/peterpanpyt/photos/3958955#%7B%22ImageId%22%3A14217742%7D)
(http://a4.l3-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/117/ed4a3486210244318d136483e3f62e10/l.jpg)
http://a4.l3-images.myspacecdn.com/imag ... 2e10/l.jpg (http://a4.l3-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/117/ed4a3486210244318d136483e3f62e10/l.jpg)
Thanks so much.
On this one he even signs it as Michael Joe Jackson.
(http://www.historyforsale.com/productimages/jpeg/217586.jpg)
http://www.historyforsale.com/productim ... 217586.jpg (http://www.historyforsale.com/productimages/jpeg/217586.jpg)
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I was just on myspace (which I have not been on in months) and something made me check out "The Greatest Milestone's" page again and this picture of a legal document (contract) once again got me to thinking about the whole Joe/Joseph controversy from a while back. I was not able to get on here for a while and did not know if this had ever been figured out. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Also I do not know how to insert an image so I will give you the link:
http://www.myspace.com/peterpanpyt/phot ... 4217742%7D (http://www.myspace.com/peterpanpyt/photos/3958955#%7B%22ImageId%22%3A14217742%7D)
(http://a4.l3-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/117/ed4a3486210244318d136483e3f62e10/l.jpg)
http://a4.l3-images.myspacecdn.com/imag ... 2e10/l.jpg (http://a4.l3-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/117/ed4a3486210244318d136483e3f62e10/l.jpg)
Thanks so much.
On this one he even signs it as Michael Joe Jackson.
(http://www.historyforsale.com/productimages/jpeg/217586.jpg)
http://www.historyforsale.com/productim ... 217586.jpg (http://www.historyforsale.com/productimages/jpeg/217586.jpg)
Hi, pepper. MJ has apparently used both names, Joe and Joseph, for legal matters. :)
And "The name!" seems to have been a hot topic in more than one thread. The following thread includes a post I shared on yesterday containing a clip of court proceedings in which MJ states his middle name as Joseph: http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=121&t=19418&p=336708#p336708.
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I was just on myspace (which I have not been on in months) and something made me check out "The Greatest Milestone's" page again and this picture of a legal document (contract) once again got me to thinking about the whole Joe/Joseph controversy from a while back. I was not able to get on here for a while and did not know if this had ever been figured out. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Also I do not know how to insert an image so I will give you the link:
http://www.myspace.com/peterpanpyt/phot ... 4217742%7D (http://www.myspace.com/peterpanpyt/photos/3958955#%7B%22ImageId%22%3A14217742%7D)
(http://a4.l3-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/117/ed4a3486210244318d136483e3f62e10/l.jpg)
http://a4.l3-images.myspacecdn.com/imag ... 2e10/l.jpg (http://a4.l3-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/117/ed4a3486210244318d136483e3f62e10/l.jpg)
Thanks so much.
On this one he even signs it as Michael Joe Jackson.
(http://www.historyforsale.com/productimages/jpeg/217586.jpg)
http://www.historyforsale.com/productim ... 217586.jpg (http://www.historyforsale.com/productimages/jpeg/217586.jpg)
The first thing I noticed about these two signatures of Michael's is that the first one, looks like whoever signed it is left handed as the script slants to the left, and in the second one, the script slants to the right, like someone who is right handed! Once again that brings up the fact that either Michael can write with both hands, or maybe there really are 2 different Michael's, one left handed and one right handed??? ( one Joe and one Joseph??) Any thoughts friends??
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It's a little useless to post the same thing in every thred so i'll just link:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=19247 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=19247)
viewtopic.php?f=121&t=19418 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=121&t=19418)
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It's a little useless to post the same thing in every thred so i'll just link:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=19247 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=19247)
viewtopic.php?f=121&t=19418 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=121&t=19418)
viewtopic.php?f=135&t=14345 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=135&t=14345)
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I was just on myspace (which I have not been on in months) and something made me check out "The Greatest Milestone's" page again and this picture of a legal document (contract) once again got me to thinking about the whole Joe/Joseph controversy from a while back. I was not able to get on here for a while and did not know if this had ever been figured out. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Also I do not know how to insert an image so I will give you the link:
http://www.myspace.com/peterpanpyt/phot ... 4217742%7D (http://www.myspace.com/peterpanpyt/photos/3958955#%7B%22ImageId%22%3A14217742%7D)
(http://a4.l3-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/117/ed4a3486210244318d136483e3f62e10/l.jpg)
http://a4.l3-images.myspacecdn.com/imag ... 2e10/l.jpg (http://a4.l3-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/117/ed4a3486210244318d136483e3f62e10/l.jpg)
Thanks so much.
On this one he even signs it as Michael Joe Jackson.
(http://www.historyforsale.com/productimages/jpeg/217586.jpg)
http://www.historyforsale.com/productim ... 217586.jpg (http://www.historyforsale.com/productimages/jpeg/217586.jpg)
The first thing I noticed about these two signatures of Michael's is that the first one, looks like whoever signed it is left handed as the script slants to the left, and in the second one, the script slants to the right, like someone who is right handed! Once again that brings up the fact that either Michael can write with both hands, or maybe there really are 2 different Michael's, one left handed and one right handed??? ( one Joe and one Joseph??) Any thoughts friends??
Hello mjj4ever777 !!!!!
Finally someone who noticed the things I noticed,THANK YOU :D .
First of all I want to say that I'm not here on this topic to force someone to believe what I BELIEVE.MICHAEL JOE JACKSON AND MICHAEL JOSEPH JACKSON are real names and are 2 different persons.Believe me it was hard for me to accept the reality but this is going for a long time ,lol 8-) .I noticed for the first time when I looked to the BAD TOUR.The BAD TOUR is my favorite,I can watch it day and night mj_bad/ .The doubles were just a diversion for the REAL TRUTH.Walter Joseph Jackson loves his family very much and most of people don't know him.
Even at the MEMORIAL we had some clues in our faces.The big photo with the little Michael had no beauty spot on his face.That's was the difference betewn them two.Ofcourse there are more but you have to see,to believe.Try to go back and think,2 is a MAGIC NUMBER is it????
Yes it was hard for them,only God and them knows how hard :( .
"I said you had to do it. You said you didn't want to. We talked about it, and we agreed that maybe I could help.
I said you were wrong. You insisted you were right. We held each other's hand, and right and wrong disappeared.
I began crying. You began crying, too. We embraced, and between us grew a flower of peace.
How I love this mystery called We! Where does it come from, out of thin air? I thought about this mystery, and I realized something : We must be love's favorite child, because until I reach out for you, We is not even there. It arrives on the wings of tenderness : it speaks through our silent understanding. When I laugh at myself, it smiles. When I forgive you, it dances in jubilation.
So We is not a choice anymore, not if you and I want to grow with one another. We unites us, increases our strength; it picks up our burden when you and I are ready to let it fall. The truth is that you and I would have given up long ago, but We won't let us. It is too wise. "Look into your hearts," it says. "What do you see? Not you and I, but only We."
I LOVE YOU ,I and WE ;) !!!!!
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Suzie @SeaShellsRule
26th April 2013 from TwitLonger
Hello MJJ Family
Today let us revisit the issue of the Wrong Middle Name on Michael Jackson's Death Certificate.
For current & up to date information on this - I decided to call a Local Registrar office of Births and Deaths in California (every state can vary on this so-I figured the best bet is calling a California one).
I spoke to a women on the phone today at 11 AM Central time Zone. I asked her Could I ask a couple questions about death certificates? She said " Yes"
" How important is it to have the correct name on the death Certificate? Or is it no big deal if you have like the wrong middle name on it? Can you just leave it?
She said" You definately want to change it"
I asked why is that? She answered " Because that person could be referred to as a different person. "
I also read on many websites that the death certificate is the most important legal document in the settlement of the estate and insurance. From a legal and insurance point of view the information in the death certificate can impact various matters. For this very reason, it is important that the information on the certificate is correct every time. "Death certificates are legal vital records. They are required to prove death in cases of estate matters, social security benefits, tax matters and genealogical research. Sometimes errors occur when creating the records and must be corrected or amended." Mistakes on death certificates can delay estate and insurance and other matters for the survivors.
I also found out this INFORMATION:
A PERSON HAS TO USE THEIR REAL LEGAL NAMES ON DEATH CERTIFICATE & CANNOT USE AN AKA NAME or AN ASSUMED NAME ON The death certificate.
Death records have been maintained in the California Department of Public Health Vital Records since July 1, 1905.
The NAME required on Vital Records is the GIVEN NAME at Birth, or name recieved through adoption, court-ordered name change, or naturalization.
AKA ( Also Known As) and Assumed names CANNOT BE entered as the legal name on the death record.
The name required on Vital Records (see Items 1C, 6C, 7C, 9C, and 12C) is the name given at birth, or a name received through
adoption, court-ordered name change, or naturalization. AKAs (Also Known As) and assumed names cannot be entered as the legal name on the death record.
I called this Office:
County Recorder
Dave Peets
Alpine County Recorder
County Administration Building
99 Water Street
Mail to: P.O. Box 155
Markleeville, CA 96120
Office (530) 694-2283
FAX (530) 694-2491
Information from these sites on death Certificates.
http://msdh.ms.gov/msdhsite/_static/31,1248,109,62.html
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/post-mortem/things-to-know/death-certificates.html
http://www.ehow.com/how_7528039_change-error-death-certificate.html
The name required on Vital Records (see Items 1C, 6C, 7C, 9C, and 12C) is the name given at birth, or a name received through
adoption, court-ordered name change, or naturalization. AKAs (Also Known As) and assumed names cannot be entered as the legal name on the death record.
Page VS 112 (01/13)Page 2 of 3
http://www.ehow.com/how_7528039_change-error-death-certificate.html
http://www.cdph.ca.gov/certlic/birthdeathmar/Documents/Death-2013.pdf
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1rjvsbu
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I was just on myspace (which I have not been on in months) and something made me check out "The Greatest Milestone's" page again and this picture of a legal document (contract) once again got me to thinking about the whole Joe/Joseph controversy from a while back. I was not able to get on here for a while and did not know if this had ever been figured out. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Also I do not know how to insert an image so I will give you the link:
<!-- m -->http://www.myspace.com/peterpanpyt/phot ... 4217742%7D (http://www.myspace.com/peterpanpyt/photos/3958955#%7B%22ImageId%22%3A14217742%7D)<!-- m -->
I have missed you my Beautiful sister
(http://a4.l3-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/117/ed4a3486210244318d136483e3f62e10/l.jpg)
<!-- m -->http://a4.l3-images.myspacecdn.com/imag ... 2e10/l.jpg (http://a4.l3-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/117/ed4a3486210244318d136483e3f62e10/l.jpg)<!-- m -->
Thanks so much.
On this one he even signs it as Michael Joe Jackson.
(http://www.historyforsale.com/productimages/jpeg/217586.jpg)
<!-- m -->http://www.historyforsale.com/productim ... 217586.jpg (http://www.historyforsale.com/productimages/jpeg/217586.jpg)<!-- m -->
The first thing I noticed about these two signatures of Michael's is that the first one, looks like whoever signed it is left handed as the script slants to the left, and in the second one, the script slants to the right, like someone who is right handed! Once again that brings up the fact that either Michael can write with both hands, or maybe there really are 2 different Michael's, one left handed and one right handed??? ( one Joe and one Joseph??) Any thoughts friends??
Hello mjj4ever777 !!!!!
Finally someone who noticed the things I noticed,THANK YOU <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> .
First of all I want to say that I'm not here on this topic to force someone to believe what I BELIEVE.MICHAEL JOE JACKSON AND MICHAEL JOSEPH JACKSON are real names and are 2 different persons.Believe me it was hard for me to accept the reality but this is going for a long time ,lol <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> .I noticed for the first time when I looked to the BAD TOUR.The BAD TOUR is my favorite,I can watch it day and night <!-- smj_bad/ -->mj_bad/<!-- smj_bad/ --> .The doubles were just a diversion for the REAL TRUTH.Walter Joseph Jackson loves his family very much and most of people don't know him.
Even at the MEMORIAL we had some clues in our faces.The big photo with the little Michael had no beauty spot on his face.That's was the difference betewn them two.Ofcourse there are more but you have to see,to believe.Try to go back and think,2 is a MAGIC NUMBER is it????
Yes it was hard for them,only God and them knows how hard <!-- s:( -->:(<!-- s:( --> .
"I said you had to do it. You said you didn't want to. We talked about it, and we agreed that maybe I could help.
I said you were wrong. You insisted you were right. We held each other's hand, and right and wrong disappeared.
I began crying. You began crying, too. We embraced, and between us grew a flower of peace.
How I love this mystery called We! Where does it come from, out of thin air? I thought about this mystery, and I realized something : We must be love's favorite child, because until I reach out for you, We is not even there. It arrives on the wings of tenderness : it speaks through our silent understanding. When I laugh at myself, it smiles. When I forgive you, it dances in jubilation.
So We is not a choice anymore, not if you and I want to grow with one another. We unites us, increases our strength; it picks up our burden when you and I are ready to let it fall. The truth is that you and I would have given up long ago, but We won't let us. It is too wise. "Look into your hearts," it says. "What do you see? Not you and I, but only We."
I LOVE YOU ,I and WE <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> !!!!!
Wow Applehead...I don't know how I missed this post 2 yrs ago, but somehow I did, but reflecting on this now, I realize that we really do think alike!! 2 Michaels? hell, I wouldn't be surprised in the least. I bet there are probably 7 "Michaels" out there right now, playing their "part" in this whole shebang! lol but seriously...2 Michaels makes a whole lot of "sense", if you know what I mean?? Joe/ Joseph...Blk/white...healthy astute businessman/ frail addiction broke...etc...Could it be that one Michael's really did die?? OR...is one the REAL Michael, blk healthy astute businessman, and the other is only the "Character" MJ the pop star that Michael created, so he could live a separate lifestyle while the other one kept the world's attention? ...and now came the time to end the "life" of the KOP, so why not go out with a BAM/ hoax, by creating the Greatest Show on Earth ???... I can't wait until the TRUTH is finally revealed...4 yrs is a long time to wait, but the TRUTH will prevail for eternity!!
Anyway, the "Reveal" is underway, so we will see!!! All I know is I see Michael's "Influence" everywhere, and I think this whole thing is much bigger then a lot of people think!!
I have missed you sweet Applehead and you know that I LOVE you!!!!!!
:bearhug:
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...is one the REAL Michael, blk healthy astute businessman, and the other is only the "Character" MJ the pop star that Michael created, so he could live a separate lifestyle while the other one kept the world's attention? ...
Bearing in mind that the simplest scenarios are often the truth, I think your statement here may well have it in a nutshell!
EDIT: Just to be clear, when I say 'simplest', I don't mean necessarily 'easy' - I just mean the most uncomplicated, straightforward way of achieving a goal.
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To make it easy: there are NOT two Michaels, there is ONE Michael playing two different characters, that makes much more sense I guess. (http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/smileys/drawing-smiley.gif?1292867584)
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Oh dear, I think I may have misunderstood mjj4ever777! I thought she was saying there's only one MJ, playing KOP to divert attention from 'real' MJ. This is what I was agreeing with, not that there are two separate people!
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Oh dear, I think I may have misunderstood mjj4ever777! I thought she was saying there's only one MJ, playing KOP to divert attention from 'real' MJ. This is what I was agreeing with, not that there are two separate people!
Actually mjj4ever777 was trying to say that there must be 2 different Michaels 2 different persons with what I don't agree and my post was addressing her, so now I don't know what do you think about that theory because I didn't understand well what you meant with your post :LolLolLolLol:
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:icon_lol: Don't worry about it sweet!
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I must say that while this forum has the theme we agree upon that MJ is alive, the most dominate theme we disagree into two camps has to be the question of whether there is one MJ or two. MJJ4ever777 is not alone in thinking there are 2.
I remain firmly in the camp of one MJ, though I have had times of doubts, and certainly there was used stand-in MJ's, that would easily be recognized if their faces/hands/body/dance/voice/personality were shown. JMO
Sweetsunset, love your smiley, very appropriate. Though I doubt if the ‘man in the mirror’ or MJ created caricature is sticking his tongue at the real MJ, but what do I know.
(http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/smileys/drawing-smiley.gif?1292867584)
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I think MJ sets up the illusion of two MJs
Double talk has been around for over 25 yrs
It's as though MJ tries to create as much ambiguity and confusion possible about who he really is
Survival tactic? Entertainment genius? Or both?
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I must say that while this forum has the theme we agree upon that MJ is alive, the most dominate theme we disagree into two camps has to be the question of whether there is one MJ or two. MJJ4ever777 is not alone in thinking there are 2.
I remain firmly in the camp of one MJ, though I have had times of doubts, and certainly there was used stand-in MJ's, that would easily be recognized if their faces/hands/body/dance/voice/personality were shown. JMO
Sweetsunset, love your smiley, very appropriate. Though I doubt if the ‘man in the mirror’ or MJ created caricature is sticking his tongue at the real MJ, but what do I know.
(http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/smileys/drawing-smiley.gif?1292867584)
I think the yellow MJ is creating a fake white MJ who doesn't want to show up because the yellow MJ thinks he is enough and don't need any help to deal with all his fans :icon_lol:
ps: I am with you in thinking that MJ is only one, the difference between you and me is that I have never had any doubt about it.
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And I think there are two. And I have no doubt about it :icon_lol:
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just something random here his brother, Jermaine Confirms in his book "you are not alone" that MJ's middle name is indeed Joe and NOT Joseph. He says it's an odd rumour he keeps heAring that Joseph is the correct name but it DEFINATELY IS NOT.
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Well as long as the real deal does the coming back bit, I don't mind if there have been dozens of them!!
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Even the name, "You are not alone" could be a hint to 2 MJ's. Remember on the 'Michael' album jacket MJ saying, "It's always nice to sing with my brother" (correct me if I have it wrong), which was very mysterious and discussed a lot. But all those many interesting hints by MJ (including 02 swag MJ) could all be intended to leave the hoax impression there are 2 when there are not.
So Mary, that's okay, I love you anyway! A little variety spices life up! :icon_lol:
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Even the name, "You are not alone" could be a hint to 2 MJ's. Remember on the 'Michael' album jacket MJ saying, "It's always nice to sing with my brother" (correct me if I have it wrong), which was very mysterious and discussed a lot. But all those many interesting hints by MJ (including 02 swag MJ) could all be intended to leave the hoax impression there are 2 when there are not.
So Mary, that's okay, I love you anyway! A little variety spices life up! :icon_lol:
Awwww....I love you too :bearhug:
I think if one wants to delve into this subject of 2 MJs, one needs to go way way back to earlier years.
But that..is another story and shall be told another time :icon_e_wink: :icon_lol:
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And I think there are two. And I have no doubt about it :icon_lol:
(http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/playful/teasing-smiley-sticking-tongue-out-emoticon.gif) :icon_lol:
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I swear I hope the double stuff gets dropped on the world when hoax is revealed. Double bam.
Just to floor everyone and make them question themselves.
Which one did I worship? Which one did I idolise? Which one did I tease, judge and make fun of?
MJ will have the ultimate last laugh and force the masses to question reality / perception / reality etc!