Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators
Latest News => The Redirects => TIAI => The Plan (Qanon, TIAI, BACK) => TIAI ~ 2011 => Topic started by: SoldierofLOVE on January 09, 2011, 11:39:59 PM
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viewtopic.php?f=72&t=17015&start=250#p292114 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=17015&start=250#p292114)
Re: Official General Prelim Discussion thread
by Serenitys_Dream » Fri Jan 07, 2011 6:57 pm
If a real body was procured, in some way, then the paramedics are telling the truth about the events of that day therefore they would not be in on the hoax. It explains why they would not have recognized Michael (because it wasn't him) and why it would seem that he had been "down" for a lengthy amount of time (because the body would be from a previously deceased person).
If a real body was procured, then an autopsy on this body would be contradictory to Michael's physical condition such as the lung ailments reported in the Autopsy report. These lung disorders would have made it impossible for Michael to sing/dance. But we see that he was singing and dancing in the movie "This Is It". At least two of the lung disorders, reported in the autopsy report, are related to smoking. One of them is usually only attributed to a smoker, I do not believe Michael was a smoker most singers and/or dancers do not smoke and Michael was not shown smoking in the many pictures taken of him. This therefore could mean that a single individual, a couple of people or no one at all from the coroner's office is directly involved in the hoax.
If a real body was used, the reports by the other witnesses who were present in the house, may also be accurate from their point of view. Using a real body, would diminish the number of people involved in the hoax, the less people actually in on the hoax...the more successful it would be. Less people, means more control over how things unfold and less chances of someone revealing the hoax before intended.
Given these things, it is possible that the trial is not a fake in itself. It may be that this a real court proceeding in an effort to show how the courts can be manipulated, as part of an ARG scenario and/or a sort of "live action drama" being played out before the entire world. A Vendetta even. This also shows how the legal system can get it so wrong, how the media can report things without really investigating or asking pertinent questions. It could also be in an effort to try to open the general publics eyes to the all the inconstancies, get them asking questions and awaken even more people to the idea that Michael Jackson is actually alive.
How else would the hoax gain more attention, beyond the believers, who are already aware of it. It had to go "Global" as in the media reporting this hearing or nothing would progress further than it has, we would be at a standstill.
On another note, the admitting name supposedly used at UCLA was Shaun Soule. The reason given for this was to protect Michael's privacy and prevent a crush of people and media coming to UCLA. Well we know that didn't work, National Photo Group was at Michael's house so it was reported anyway. But if they used an alias when admitting Michael to the hospital, why did they use a completely different one on the blood samples obtained from the body?
They autopsy report tells us that the vials of blood were labelled as "Gershwin" and this was the blood used for the reported testing in the autopsy report.
There would have been no reason to use two different aliases, one for the patient and one for the patient's blood samples. The using of the Shaun Soule alias did not even come out until weeks after June 25, 2009 so the use of a different alias on the blood samples wasn't required to protect Michael Jackson's privacy. These blood samples were taken prior to any death having been pronounced and when resuscitation efforts were still ongoing.I would think that it is procedure to label blood and other fluid samples with the same name that a patient is admitted under so that these samples can be matched up with the right patient when results are obtained.
So there must be another reason why two different names would have been used.
Gershwin
George & Ira Gershwin - brothers, composer/pianist & lyricist." Porgy and Bess" is their most renowned Opera. There most popular song came from this Opera "It Ain't Necessarily So".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porgy_and_Bess (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porgy_and_Bess)
It Ain't Necessarily So - It's not as it at first seems, It's fake, It's not true...it's a hoax.
Liza May Minnelli is an American singer and actress. She is the daughter of singer and actress Judy Garland (Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz) and film director Vincente Minnelli.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liza_Minnelli (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liza_Minnelli)
Liza Minnelli's godfather is IRA GERSHWIN.
http://www.ibdb.com/person.php?id=68333 (http://www.ibdb.com/person.php?id=68333)
Shaun - God's Gift
http://www.name-meanings.com/search.php (http://www.name-meanings.com/search.php)
Anglicized form of SEÁN
http://www.behindthename.com/name/shaun (http://www.behindthename.com/name/shaun)
SEÁN - God Is Gracious
http://www.name-meanings.com/search.php (http://www.name-meanings.com/search.php)
Irish form of JOHN
http://www.behindthename.com/name/sea10n (http://www.behindthename.com/name/sea10n)
JOHN - God Is Gracious, Merciful
http://www.name-meanings.com/search.php (http://www.name-meanings.com/search.php)
English form of Iohannes, the Latin form of the Greek name Ioannes, itself derived from the Hebrew name Yochanan meaning "YAHWEH is gracious". This name owes its popularity to two New Testament characters, both highly revered saints. The first was John the Baptist, a Jewish ascetic who was considered the forerunner of Jesus Christ. The second was the apostle John, who was also traditionally regarded as the author of the fourth Gospel and Revelation
http://www.behindthename.com/name/john (http://www.behindthename.com/name/john)
Soule - Obsolete spelling of SOUL
French verb
1. First-person singular present indicative of SOULER.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/soule (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/soule)
Souler
1. (transitive) To get (someone) drunk.
2. (transitive, literary) To fill up as if with food.
3. (transitive) To confuse or extenuate with an unending flow of something.
4. (transitive) To figuratively intoxicate or overexcite.
5. (reflexive) To get drunk.
6. (reflexive) To consume excessively of something; to gorge oneself on something.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/souler#French (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/souler#French)
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Wow! That was your 777 post "SoldierofLOVE"! :lol:
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"A Vendetta even. This also shows how the legal system can get it so wrong, how the media can report things without really investigating or asking pertinent questions."
If the trial is real, the legal system can get wrong if they don' t do their job well in verifying the authenticity of evidence and files.
If the trial is real, they get wrong if they sent Murray in jail.
If the trial is real, they can get right(make justice) only by revealing a hoax.
Michael's Vendetta makes no sense here because if the legal system is doing their job right, they reveal his own hoax. And if not, Murray is going to jail.
There are no winners.
So, no, i mostly disagree.
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"A Vendetta even. This also shows how the legal system can get it so wrong, how the media can report things without really investigating or asking pertinent questions."
If the trial is real, the legal system can get wrong if they don' t do their job well in verifying the authenticity of evidence and files.
If the trial is real, they get wrong if they sent Murray in jail.
If the trial is real, they can get right(make justice) only by revealing a hoax.
Michael's Vendetta makes no sense here because if the legal system is doing their job right, they reveal his own hoax. And if not, Murray is going to jail.
There are no winners.
So, no, i mostly disagree.
You're right.
The only way around that logic is if Murray is supposed to be found guilty and that's when MJ reveals. I mean that's literally the only way.
Like you said, if court is real, then the only way MJ is making a point is if Murray actually gets found guilty.
And really, the court did their job in 2005. Justice was served. MJ was rightfully found not guilty. It's not the court that failed to perform properly, it's the media.
So for this hoax to make sense as MJ's Vendetta, court has to be rigged, at least, if not 100% staged, as a set up for the media to expose themselves and their reporting of lies and made up stories.
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Yes, bec, this is exactly what i meant.
And you said that "the only way around that logic is if Murray is supposed to be found guilty and that's when MJ reveals." Do you mean in case the trial is real? Because i still see a problem, Michael &Co could face legal charges for everything. Or maybe i didn't understand very well what you said.
And i do believe the trial is real, the judge is real and i read about their incompatibilities, they can't have such activities like acting for example.
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Yes, bec, this is exactly what i meant.
And you said that "the only way around that logic is if Murray is supposed to be found guilty and that's when MJ reveals." Do you mean in case the trial is real? Because i still see a problem, Michael &Co could face legal charges for everything. Or maybe i didn't understand very well what you said.
And i do believe the trial is real, the judge is real and i read about their incompatibilities, they can't have such activities like acting for example.
Yes that's what I meant. Good lawyers can ensure legality so I have to assume that Michael isn't going to do this without some assurance of legality ahead of time.
People who appear in documentaries are not actors though. We can't forget that.
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I'm assuming TS is agreeing that they used a real body and that the trial is at least partly real.
Bec
Yes that's what I meant. Good lawyers can ensure legality so I have to assume that Michael isn't going to do this without some assurance of legality ahead of time.
I'm sure of that.
IMO If the trial is real, and the judge, lawyers, witnesses and jury are telling their truth as they know it, they would come to the same conclusion as us on this hoax forum in all of our detailed investigation. The judge and jury's verdict would be --MJ is alive. They would surely get to the bottom of whether it was MJ's own body who was admitted to the hospital and had an autopsy, who was lying or telling the truth especially if they used polygraph tests and DNA samples, etc., and if Murray actually was a qualitfied doctor by checking his background thoroughly. It doesn't appear that they are doing any of this, and are caught up in lesser things such as fingerprints on the IV and propofol bottles found in the room. I think there are some very key people at the top who need to be in on the hoax, such as the judge, coroner, chief of police, etc. Using an already dead body approximately the same age would be the easiest. The person wouldn't even have to have looked like MJ, because the ambulance pic took care of that. No double had to die at a precise time. I don't buy the Romanian double story, but I think it's one of many spins to lead people in multi-directions. I'm not sure how the case will go, because MJ likes to keep us on the edge of our seats, and we should expect the unexpected!
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I am sure Michael has the best lawyers possible. I am excited to see the legal way that will help Michael back safe, after a real trial.
(in case we accept the fact that he is planning to return. if not, then Murray is on his own with well paid lawyers, u know what i mean)
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I'm assuming TS is agreeing that they used a real body and that the trial is at least partly real.
Bec
Yes that's what I meant. Good lawyers can ensure legality so I have to assume that Michael isn't going to do this without some assurance of legality ahead of time.
I'm sure of that.
IMO If the trial is real, and the judge, lawyers, witnesses and jury are telling their truth as they know it, they would come to the same conclusion as us on this hoax forum in all of our detailed investigation. The judge and jury's verdict would be --MJ is alive. They would surely get to the bottom of whether it was MJ's own body who was admitted to the hospital and had an autopsy, who was lying or telling the truth especially if they used polygraph tests and DNA samples, etc., and if Murray actually was a qualitfied doctor by checking his background thoroughly. It doesn't appear that they are doing any of this, and are caught up in lesser things such as fingerprints on the IV and propofol bottles found in the room. I think there are some very key people at the top who need to be in on the hoax, such as the judge, coroner, chief of police, etc. Using an already dead body approximately the same age would be the easiest. The person wouldn't even have to have looked like MJ, because the ambulance pic took care of that. No double had to die at a precise time. I don't buy the Romanian double story, but I think it's one of many spins to lead people in multi-directions. I'm not sure how the case will go, because MJ likes to keep us on the edge of our seats, and we should expect the unexpected!
If this is a real body what are the chances of MJ finding someone who died on the same day that could pass for MJ?
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There are many deaths each day in every hospital, very likely some close to his age, weight, dark hair. The EMT did not recognize him as Michael Jackson, the most easily recognizable face on the planet.
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[attachment=0:2soboss4]595disappointed3if8.jpg[/attachment:2soboss4]o.k...................stand back here for a moment ......................if this is s deliberate redirect by TS...............and we care assuming TS........is not playing with us.............
stand back....................look....................he has just used this to reassure us YET AGAIN.....................................ITS NOT.and NEVER WAS...................MICHAEL....................
is that still not enough for you all.......???????
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okay here's what i'm thinking. there were whispers that two ambulances were used. what if the one going out to the front (the one where we get the ambulance picture from) is really a dummy. michael's people could say that they need this as a diversion. in this case, what if michael was in that ambulance? they could say that they have it set up to distract people. that way michael could dress as an EMT (we never do see the faces) and also see the hype surrounding his impending "death." also, how do we know the EMTS in the picture are not family and close friends? (eliminate the need to hire more actors and contract their silence)
with that in mind, the real EMTS don't have to lie on the stand because they thought they were transporting the "real" body (and yes, i agree that a deceased person was used. i don't know how yet, but that's just my belief). i don't think i've heard one peep from an EMT stating they were in that ambulance photo. no one has commented on the ride they had there.
i agree with serenity's dream, the less people in on the hoax, the easier for michael to control. people could be a part of this hoax and be completely unaware of it.
the only problem i have with the trial scenario is time. the justice system is flawed in many ways, one of which is that it likes to take its sweet time with hearings and proceedings. even though as a US citizen you are technically "guaranteed" a "speedy" trial, that is really a joke. i'm not sure this thing will go to the full trial, or even complete it. i mean, we've had one week of prelims and it's already a circus. i think a trial works well with the suggested theory above, but i just think sand is falling through the hourglass faster than we think.
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70 days between Murray's court cases is very coincidental.
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loyalfan, where is TS post
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I don't have time to read it all right now but I'm very glad this discussion about a body came up.
I think it is really important to investigate more on this subject as not all the people and institutions involved could be IN the hoax.
Oh Michael shall we ever know the truth :( ?
Love you.....
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I think it had to be a body....I just don't know if it was His body or ......somebody else.......yes I remember that story that surfaced imediately after June 25th about the romanian double........ sounded like a fairytale of course........ but what sounds real in this story?!
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Hi Gina,
but if there is a body, Serenity made a good point, numerology can't be involved.
I don't know how you feel about numerology. And i still think about the legal way Michael could return safe after a real trial, which i'm sure it is.
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Hi Gina,
but if there is a body, Serenity made a good point, numerology can't be involved.
I don't know how you feel about numerology. And i still think about the legal way Michael could return safe after a real trial, which i'm sure it is.
No, sorry you misunderstood me. I meant that you can not predict when a terminally ill patient would die and since numerology is involved in the hoax, specific dates etc are relevant, than IMO the Dimitri story is false. A real body was used for the scene, ambulance, autopsy (maybe not the ambulance picture we see) but it wasn't this DD person as has been described on that blog.
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oh, ok, i thought we mean the same body Dimitri.
sorry, confused..so just any dead body ok.
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It's hard in a post as long as Serenity's (the redirect), to pin point what exactly TS is directing us to. There's enough talk all over the forum in numerous threads about all the areas covered in Serenity's post, so he can't be wanting us to discuss something we've missed so far. I don't see the point of this redirect.
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loyalfan, it's ok.
now i understand that TS redirects, she/he doesn't post.
Is he a numerologist or an insider?
And if he is an insider so why does he/she point us? Are we the source?
Looks like a PR for this forum like daily miss/mister popularity - best post in order to encourage us to write and make this forum most popular.
Hi , TS, i will do my best:))
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yes .puremind...i agree with you there.................you can imagine members saying.."oh me next" ha ha ............................and irs interesting to see how differently we all interpret the re directs...................xxxxxxxxxx
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Ok, I have a thought. Maybe a little controversial but it has been in my mind for ages. I think the main point TS wants to refer to is that there indeed was a dead body and not that the prelim is real. Someone died on June 25 and that person was terminally ill. If you look at the AR the person was really ill, and I think that person had cancer (lungs and liver showed dark spots I think). Don't forget TMZ reported right after June 25 that MJ received a shot of Demerol on a daily basis. That's a strong painkiller. They also have found marihuana and sigarettes (to make a joint). This is a good painkiller as well and used a lot by terminally ill cancer patients who are in serious pain. The person died on an OD of propofol, I don't know what they use for human beings that are being euthanized, I need to call a doctor here in Holland for that, but it IS used to euthanize animals. The dose might not be fatal for a healthy person, but it can be for a terminally ill person.
There are different explanations for the timing of June 25. One is that maybe initially Mike planned to use a dummy, but this just came his way. This person has had a lot of plastic surgery: nose, ears, wrists even (see AR). There is a chance that this person was one of his doubles (or even the main double), who had surgery to look like him. I can only imagine how well they would have known each other. Being able to play a double (and I am not talking about an impersonator) means you have to spend a lot of your time with the person you need to become. There is a big chance they knew each other for decades. That would also mean that this double was aware of Mike's plan. Maybe when he heard he was ill and wouldn't get better, he offered to Mike to be his dead body as well. With assistent suicide the date can be planned. Maybe he was such a loyal person. Also don't forget that the Jacksons did bury a person on July 6, 2009 at Forest Lawn (can't search for that YouTube now, but maybe someone can post it for me). If I even go a little further, I would say that there is a possibility that Katherine and Joe adopted this person legally so he could indeed change his name to Jackson. That way it would not be MJ's biological brother, but it would be his brother, which makes it not a lie when Katherine says her son died, or the siblings saying their brother died. Maybe far fetched but to me in this hoax really nothing is far fetched. Trump said to Larry King that there were two Michaels and that he knew them both (again I can't search for the video, but it's on YouTube somewhere). On the AR we see a person that is very ill, no pepsi burn, lots of plastic surgery, but not the chin. It's just not Michael Jackson, but maybe it is, if you get what I am saying.
Mike made his lip thinner with make-up because the double had thinner lips. Mike added a cleft because the double had a longer chin and a cleft, the double had his nose done because Mike had a smaller nose, the double had his ears done to get them closer to his head, and the double had implants in the wrist to match Mike's 'bumps'. No implants were found according to the AR, but there were scars on both wrists. Maybe they were removed in the hospital because he had to go through the MRI or something like that.
Because I still think the name 'Michael Joseph Jackson' is not real in order to make it easier in this hoax to publish 'fake' documents, I think the AR and DC are still fake. I do think the info in the AR might be real. That would mean the double had vitiligo. When I talked about this before, people asked me how it was possible to find someone that looks so much like you, who also has vitiligo? I don't know, but we know they have found lots and lots of cream in the house, cream that MJ didn't want anyone to know of according to Murray. There is bleaching cream that is only temporary, but you have to keep smearing to keep the light skin. So maybe one of them simply was still black, but who? If all the info in the AR is accurate, that would mean the double had vitiligo and Mike didn't. The covers of Dangerous and Michael make my head spin. Dangerous shows Michael hiding behind a mask. As Trump said, there were 2 MJ's from that time on. You see on Dangerous that he is showing a circus, hiding behind the mask. We see a factory and everything seems surreal. The album cover of Michael reminds me a lot of the Dangerous cover. Yet here we see him without a mask, with his 'King of Pop' era left behind him, showing the real deal in front. On his right side we see everything before '88, on his left side we see everything after '88. One side is dark (before '88), one side is light (after '88). Black...White. Michael in front is black. Just made me think he never had vitiligo, but the double had. Could explain all the illnesses too. Two people have more illnesses than one. If the double broke a leg, Mike had to have his leg plastered. And sometimes you get (like in the movies) a continuation error. I remember something during the Dangerous era with a broken leg or something like that that suddenly wasn't broken anymore, but I really can't recall the exact story.
So back to the doubles but to me it still seems the most logical explanation for this mess. It would explain too much to be ignored. If MJ's name is Michael Joe Jackson, like we see on real legal papers, I think the double's name is Mike Joseph Jackson. I think Michael Joseph Jackson is a fake name, also the birth date 8/29/1958. I still haven't found ANY reference to this birth date or middle name before '88. I think Moonwalk was written to make people think Michael Jackson was born on 8/29/1958, had Joseph as a middle name and was 5'10". If you mix up Mike Joseph Jackson and Michael Joe, you get Michael Joseph. If you take the average of the heights (5'9" on the AR, 5'11" on the mug shot) you get 5'10". The birth date is 8/29/1958 because the hoax and date of death was planned way back then. This birth date would make that the Pepsi burn would be exaclty in the middle of his life. I don't think either of them was born on that date. I think the double being terminally ill right before the start of this hoax was just a coincidence.
I agree with SD that a real corpse would reduce the quantity of the people involved, but I do not think the prelim is completely real. I think the coroner knows. He did have a dead body, he made the AR although I think the one that was published was altered for the hoax. The coroner did state right after the autopsy that it was not foul play. He must have seen what this person suffered from. There was a rumor that there were two ambulances leaving Carolwood and there were reports of two hospitals; UCLA and Cedar's. What if the masses were distracted with a dummy in the ambulance that left the main gate? Maybe that is why it took so long to get the ambulance out, to make sure the paps would stay there not to miss anything. That way the other ambulance had time to go through the other gate and leave to Cedar's. UCLA might have been a distraction. If that is the case, some bobos from UCLA must know about the hoax, other doctors and staff must have been asked to keep it quiet that MJ never arrived there, that they brought in a dummy for distraction of the media. According to TMZ on June 25, Katherine was on her way to the hospital at 1:30 PM, yet she arrives at UCLA 2 whole hours later. This makes me think the person died in the hospital (Cedar's) and the Jacksons were by his side when it happened, or at least Katherine. If there is any emotion we see, it could be because they are really there and have to ACT that there is none, to make people open their eyes to the hoax happening as well. And maybe some of them didn't really even knew him that well. Glasses to hide tears AND to hide the lack of tears? It could also explain Randy's anger, maybe he didn't think using the body for the hoax was ethical. But because he loves his brother, he carries on with the hoax. It can also explain why Karen Faye is so sure Mike was sick and frail and not able to do the shows, while others said he was perfectly fine.
I think this prelim is fake. The media and fans attending are thinking that they are attending a real prelim, because Murray is there, the judge is there, the witnesses are there etc. That doesn't mean it's real. There is no need for a real investigation, trial and such, because the deceased person was terminally ill. This is not to get back at the court, because Mike was acquitted. The media fucked him, and he fucks them back, big time. He is letting them attend a prelim, and maybe even a trial later on, of a man who never hurt a soul. If the media would do their journalistic jobs, they would notice that there is absolutely no proof that Murray killed MJ, but no one is questioning, they are all reporting the garbage even though it is clear that this is all too ridiculous to be true. The media will be exposed, not the justice system. People in that courtroom and the witnesses, with the exception of the media and the few that also are allowed inside, know about it. Those are the ones that know, have signed the confidentiality agreement and play a role. It's fake, but looks real. A combination of Law and Order and Punk'd.
Sounds complicated and maybe it is all much simpeler, but this is what I have been thinking for a long long time.
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Ok, I have a thought. Maybe a little controversial but it has been in my mind for ages. I think the main point TS wants to refer to is that there indeed was a dead body and not that the prelim is real. Someone died on June 25 and that person was terminally ill. If you look at the AR the person was really ill, and I think that person had cancer (lungs and liver showed dark spots I think). Don't forget TMZ reported right after June 25 that MJ received a shot of Demerol on a daily basis. That's a strong painkiller. They also have found marihuana and sigarettes (to make a joint). This is a good painkiller as well and used a lot by terminally ill cancer patients who are in serious pain. The person died on an OD of propofol, I don't know what they use for human beings that are being euthanized, I need to call a doctor here in Holland for that, but it IS used to euthanize animals. The dose might not be fatal for a healthy person, but it can be for a terminally ill person.
There are different explanations for the timing of June 25. One is that maybe initially Mike planned to use a dummy, but this just came his way. This person has had a lot of plastic surgery: nose, ears, wrists even (see AR). There is a chance that this person was one of his doubles (or even the main double), who had surgery to look like him. I can only imagine how well they would have known each other. Being able to play a double (and I am not talking about an impersonator) means you have to spend a lot of your time with the person you need to become. There is a big chance they knew each other for decades. That would also mean that this double was aware of Mike's plan. Maybe when he heard he was ill and wouldn't get better, he offered to Mike to be his dead body as well. With assistent suicide the date can be planned. Maybe he was such a loyal person. Also don't forget that the Jacksons did bury a person on July 6, 2009 at Forest Lawn (can't search for that YouTube now, but maybe someone can post it for me). If I even go a little further, I would say that there is a possibility that Katherine and Joe adopted this person legally so he could indeed change his name to Jackson. That way it would not be MJ's biological brother, but it would be his brother, which makes it not a lie when Katherine says her son died, or the siblings saying their brother died. Maybe far fetched but to me in this hoax really nothing is far fetched. Trump said to Larry King that there were two Michaels and that he knew them both (again I can't search for the video, but it's on YouTube somewhere). On the AR we see a person that is very ill, no pepsi burn, lots of plastic surgery, but not the chin. It's just not Michael Jackson, but maybe it is, if you get what I am saying.
Mike made his lip thinner with make-up because the double had thinner lips. Mike added a cleft because the double had a longer chin and a cleft, the double had his nose done because Mike had a smaller nose, the double had his ears done to get them closer to his head, and the double had implants in the wrist to match Mike's 'bumps'. No implants were found according to the AR, but there were scars on both wrists. Maybe they were removed in the hospital because he had to go through the MRI or something like that.
Because I still think the name 'Michael Joseph Jackson' is not real in order to make it easier in this hoax to publish 'fake' documents, I think the AR and DC are still fake. I do think the info in the AR might be real. That would mean the double had vitiligo. When I talked about this before, people asked me how it was possible to find someone that looks so much like you, who also has vitiligo? I don't know, but we know they have found lots and lots of cream in the house, cream that MJ didn't want anyone to know of according to Murray. There is bleaching cream that is only temporary, but you have to keep smearing to keep the light skin. So maybe one of them simply was still black, but who? If all the info in the AR is accurate, that would mean the double had vitiligo and Mike didn't. The covers of Dangerous and Michael make my head spin. Dangerous shows Michael hiding behind a mask. As Trump said, there were 2 MJ's from that time on. You see on Dangerous that he is showing a circus, hiding behind the mask. We see a factory and everything seems surreal. The album cover of Michael reminds me a lot of the Dangerous cover. Yet here we see him without a mask, with his 'King of Pop' era left behind him, showing the real deal in front. On his right side we see everything before '88, on his left side we see everything after '88. One side is dark (before '88), one side is light (after '88). Black...White. Michael in front is black. Just made me think he never had vitiligo, but the double had. Could explain all the illnesses too. Two people have more illnesses than one. If the double broke a leg, Mike had to have his leg plastered. And sometimes you get (like in the movies) a continuation error. I remember something during the Dangerous era with a broken leg or something like that that suddenly wasn't broken anymore, but I really can't recall the exact story.
So back to the doubles but to me it still seems the most logical explanation for this mess. It would explain too much to be ignored. If MJ's name is Michael Joe Jackson, like we see on real legal papers, I think the double's name is Mike Joseph Jackson. I think Michael Joseph Jackson is a fake name, also the birth date 8/29/1958. I still haven't found ANY reference to this birth date or middle name before '88. I think Moonwalk was written to make people think Michael Jackson was born on 8/29/1958, had Joseph as a middle name and was 5'10". If you mix up Mike Joseph Jackson and Michael Joe, you get Michael Joseph. If you take the average of the heights (5'9" on the AR, 5'11" on the mug shot) you get 5'10". The birth date is 8/29/1958 because the hoax and date of death was planned way back then. This birth date would make that the Pepsi burn would be exaclty in the middle of his life. I don't think either of them was born on that date. I think the double being terminally ill right before the start of this hoax was just a coincidence.
I agree with SD that a real corpse would reduce the quantity of the people involved, but I do not think the prelim is completely real. I think the coroner knows. He did have a dead body, he made the AR although I think the one that was published was altered for the hoax. The coroner did state right after the autopsy that it was not foul play. He must have seen what this person suffered from. There was a rumor that there were two ambulances leaving Carolwood and there were reports of two hospitals; UCLA and Cedar's. What if the masses were distracted with a dummy in the ambulance that left the main gate? Maybe that is why it took so long to get the ambulance out, to make sure the paps would stay there not to miss anything. That way the other ambulance had time to go through the other gate and leave to Cedar's. UCLA might have been a distraction. If that is the case, some bobos from UCLA must know about the hoax, other doctors and staff must have been asked to keep it quiet that MJ never arrived there, that they brought in a dummy for distraction of the media. According to TMZ on June 25, Katherine was on her way to the hospital at 1:30 PM, yet she arrives at UCLA 2 whole hours later. This makes me think the person died in the hospital (Cedar's) and the Jacksons were by his side when it happened, or at least Katherine. If there is any emotion we see, it could be because they are really there and have to ACT that there is none, to make people open their eyes to the hoax happening as well. And maybe some of them didn't really even knew him that well. Glasses to hide tears AND to hide the lack of tears? It could also explain Randy's anger, maybe he didn't think using the body for the hoax was ethical. But because he loves his brother, he carries on with the hoax. It can also explain why Karen Faye is so sure Mike was sick and frail and not able to do the shows, while others said he was perfectly fine.
I think this prelim is fake. The media and fans attending are thinking that they are attending a real prelim, because Murray is there, the judge is there, the witnesses are there etc. That doesn't mean it's real. There is no need for a real investigation, trial and such, because the deceased person was terminally ill. This is not to get back at the court, because Mike was acquitted. The media fucked him, and he fucks them back, big time. He is letting them attend a prelim, and maybe even a trial later on, of a man who never hurt a soul. If the media would do their journalistic jobs, they would notice that there is absolutely no proof that Murray killed MJ, but no one is questioning, they are all reporting the garbage even though it is clear that this is all too ridiculous to be true. The media will be exposed, not the justice system. People in that courtroom and the witnesses, with the exception of the media and the few that also are allowed inside, know about it. Those are the ones that know, have signed the confidentiality agreement and play a role. It's fake, but looks real. A combination of Law and Order and Punk'd.
Sounds complicated and maybe it is all much simpeler, but this is what I have been thinking for a long long time.
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Great Post ;)
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I'm thinking it's very possible that a dead body was in fact used that day. "Michael" was ID'd with his driver's license according to the AR and for all we know, that piece of ID may have been a forgery. Although I am certainly not ruling out no body, or a dummy (which was obviously used for the ambulance pic).
I think it makes sense that the fewer people in on it (initially), the better for Michael. More people means more uncontrollable factors. I do think that as time has passed since June 25th, more people may have been brought into the loop but I honestly think that no one knows everything, apart from Michael.
As for the prelim, I think it's "partially" real, in that it could very well be an actual prelim but there are key players involved who are aware of the hoax, at least to some degree. It's possible that some of the witness testimony is true, from what they know, but everybody is contradicting each other so I'm really hoping that the general public is at least paying some attention and realize that something doesn't add up.
This case will definitely go to trial and that's how Michael wants it, IMO. This hoax needs to be taken to the furthest point in order for Michael to prove his point.
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I found this picture on Lastfm in a plethora of many real MJ pictures. Judging by the comments so many people believe that it is him! Since when would MJ hold a cigerette? But there is someone out there who looks similiar to him that does.
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If someone was on life support it would not be hard to get the death date to line up with the numerology of the hoax. It would be a matter of turning off the machine. Just a thought.
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If someone was on life support it would not be hard to get the death date to line up with the numerology of the hoax. It would be a matter of turning off the machine. Just a thought.
Seems logical. I don't think assistent suicide is legal in the US but maybe just turning off the life support is when someone can't function on his own anymore.
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I'm thinking it's very possible that a dead body was in fact used that day. "Michael" was ID'd with his driver's license according to the AR and for all we know, that piece of ID may have been a forgery. Although I am certainly not ruling out no body, or a dummy (which was obviously used for the ambulance pic).
I think it makes sense that the fewer people in on it (initially), the better for Michael. More people means more uncontrollable factors. I do think that as time has passed since June 25th, more people may have been brought into the loop but I honestly think that no one knows everything, apart from Michael.
As for the prelim, I think it's "partially" real, in that it could very well be an actual prelim but there are key players involved who are aware of the hoax, at least to some degree. It's possible that some of the witness testimony is true, from what they know, but everybody is contradicting each other so I'm really hoping that the general public is at least paying some attention and realize that something doesn't add up.
This case will definitely go to trial and that's how Michael wants it, IMO. This hoax needs to be taken to the furthest point in order for Michael to prove his point.
I completley agree with your point of view. 8-)
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Well it's just theories about what happened on that day and how it happened. And still the dead body in the room makes sense to me. Not everyone can be in on the hoax. Paramedics could be telling the truth about how they couldn't recognize MJ or how he looked like an Asian guy. It is still no hard to find a body who died a couple of hours earlier. Maybe your theory is right but still mine makes perfect sense to me. This is fiction in reality and reality in fiction and some of the things we see are the reality in fiction part of the hoax. Not everything we hear is made up. It is important to make the difference btw the two.
I wrote this on the previous redirect of TS. This is reality in fiction, fiction in reality, and there has to be a reality in fiction side of the hoax. Not everything we hear is made up. And not everyone we see is in on the hoax. A dead body made sense to me always. That explains so well why the paramedics didn't recognize MJ because there was a dead body in the room but it wasn't MJ.
I believe that the courts are in the fiction in reality side of the hoax. There're main characters who know about the hoax but there're some witnesses and some others who have no idea about the hoax. I wrote this a couple of days ago in my Twitter.
Blame Murray and declare him like he's the killer of MJ and then let him go without any charges.Show the world injustice!
The reason of the court can be about showing the world the injustice in the governments.
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Souza, I've been having a similar theory in my head for a long time. That's why I posted the BAD Theme thread because there's a lot of signs pointing to this era. And I do believe that was a turning point in his career and life and where the double entered into the picture. It is also when Tommy Mottola entered into the picture as well in MJ's career.
And Serenity, you make some really valid and interesting points that I haven't even thought of.
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RK wrote:
If someone was on life support it would not be hard to get the death date to line up with the numerology of the hoax. It would be a matter of turning off the machine. Just a thought.
This may be true, maybe that person was dependent on the machine to stay alive. I agree with SD about the declaration of the paramedics, Michael did not recognize that it was not, perhaps it was a person with cancer, one of the effects of chemotherapy is hair loss and the paramedics said it was a man with little hair. I remember the chef said at some point every day that Murray was down all day with some oxygen tanks, a dancer if something has to have is the ability to breathe and know how to do, then how is that supposed to be the Michael spent the night with oxygen position? Not understood, a dancer, if something is good at is breathing, it is a technique that can also learn to optimize physical performance.
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If you concede that the EMTs are real and not in on it, then you must concede that the 911 call was real.
One leads to the other.
I don't believe there was a real body of any sort, at any time in this hoax. I've thrown out lots of reasons why in the past, but I guess it really boils down to just gut instinct... a hunch.
Hard to do anything all for L.O.V.E. while mishandling a corpse. It's super bad PR. Dead bodies are not part of family friendly entertainment and MJ has always created entertainment appropriate for people of all ages.
I have a feeling TS is messing with us.
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Oh goodness Bec, I'm so glad you said this. I composed a post this morning saying as much then didn't submit it because I thought I'd get accused of criticising TS!
I think TS does not always direct us to the 'truth', but sometimes (as now) sends us on wild goose chases with red herrings (sorry for any non English speakers who probably think I've lost my marbles!), especially if we get too close to uncovering what really happened. Assuming TS and MJ are linked, he doesn't want us working it all out. MJ wants OUR jaws on the floor as well as the rest of the world's!
And you know how TS never just comes out and says it the way it is, there's always something cryptic about his posts and redirects. This one today could be taken, and has been by many, to mean there was a body used, but TS will easily be able to come back and explain that it was just meant to show MJ's body wasn't involved i.e. he's not dead!
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Serenity....your posts are always so informative. You are a blessing to have on this forum. Thanks for your hard work.
Souza......wow! Great thoughts. Can't help but think about LaToya's comment at the airport about "while we're watching the right hand, we don't know what the left one is doing".
Bate and switch.......nobody sees the "moonwalking bear"!!!!
Mission accomplished!
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If someone was on life support it would not be hard to get the death date to line up with the numerology of the hoax. It would be a matter of turning off the machine. Just a thought.
Seems logical. I don't think assistent suicide is legal in the US but maybe just turning off the life support is when someone can't function on his own anymore.
sort of true. my grandmother was on life support when she passed away. thankfully we didn't have to decide for her, she just went by her own. however, even when someone is on life support, you can see on the machine that they sometimes are functioning by themselves and not relying 100% on the machine. this is, of course, certain cases. if the person was on life support and depended on it 100%, they would more than likely pass away within minutes of being taken off. if they were able to function slightly off it, but still needed life support to survive, it could be a while (certainly not a long time) before they passed away. i hope this makes sense.
@souza- your post was very interesting. something to think about. it certainly does make sense in terms of the emotions during this whole hoax. jermaine and joe's smiling (they maybe didn't know the double well enough), katherine's tears (she's very caring) and the kids' tearless faces at the memorial (it's not their dad). with that being said, if this double spent so much time with michael to mimic him as a person, poor guy must have been through hell. can you imagine michael going through this hoax, leaving his fans, compromising his family and then losing someone who would have had to be like a brother? it's just so sad.
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Found the right thread...lol :oops:
The only evidence that Michael was supposedly 5' 11" comes from the Mug shot.
(http://www.mugshots.com/IMAGES/Mugshot__michael-jackson-info.jpg)
If Michael was wearing heels and they didn't make him remove his shoes that would account for the discrepancy in height. Not every person who is arrested is required to remove their shoes when a mug shot is taken. You would think that they would be required to do so but this isn't the case.
His license (which expired in 1989) from the FBI files shows a height of 5 '9" and a weight of 120lbs. The number on the license is N8685798
(http://www.nypost.com/rw/nypost/2009/12/22/news/photos_stories/jackson_license131742--300x200.jpg)
Michael Jackson's driver's license, which was part of the FBI's files.
The AR lists the bodies height as 5' 9" and 136lbs and states that a California DL was used to identify the body. The number on this license is N8685798, the same as the license that expired in 1989. It seems that the height and weight for the AR was recorded from the license. This doesn't mean that the license wasn't manipulated though but you would want to keep some things consistent to Michael, even in a hoax.
I believe that Michael was 5' 9" and he is a "lean" man, thin but muscular; a dancer's body. Any height differences in photographs that have been perceived over the years are due to heels and/or inserts that you can put in your shoes (lifts).
Here is an example:
Welcome to the Levitator Shoe Lift Company!
Brief Introduction
Levitator Lifts, a division of Canfield Plastics develops shoe lifts for people that need a comfortable, low cost, removable, high quality product and want to gain up to 2 1/2 inches in height.
http://www.levitatorlifts.com/
(http://www.talleryou.com/images/albums/NewAlbum_266e9/tn_shoe_lifts_2009_catalog_043.jpg)
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There has been significant discussion on the room temperature and determining time of death and I don't want to argue with anyone regarding this but the ambient or room temperature is a factor in the determination of TOD.
Estimating Time of Death (TOD)
Coroner measures temperature of liver to determine time of death.
Coroner measures temperature of liver to determine time of death.
Medical investigators look for various signs to help them estimate a time frame - usually a two to four-hour window of time - in which the victim probably died. These signs may include the following:
* Rigor mortis
(the stiffening of the muscles that occurs shortly after death)
* Lividity (pooling of blood)
* Body core temperature
* Clouding of the corneas
* Evidence of a decompositional process
* Presence/absence of purge fluid
* Drying of the tissues.
The organs most commonly used to determine the body core temperature are the liver and the brain, because of their mass and density. After death, the body temperature falls toward the temperature of the surroundings at a rate of about one-and-a-half degrees per hour. This rate will vary depending on the amount of body fat, the amount of blood loss, the amount of type of clothing worn by the victim, the location of the body (whether it was lying near a heating or air conditioning vent or inside a cooler), and, if the body was found outdoors, on the weather conditions, including air temperature, wind, and precipitation (rain or snow).
http://www.trutv.com/shows/forensic_files/techniques/tod.html
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f264/IndigoDreams0007/TOD.png)
http://books.google.ca/books?id=SCvuR7laiKcC&pg=PA657&lpg=PA657&dq=can+room+temperature+affect+determination+of+time+of+death%3F&source=bl&ots=tLHS6Oster&sig=Ij9L6VowHMK9vGbGTsIWC5_I9m0&hl=en&ei=zmQrTYLzDYi4sQO34LXfBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CE8Q6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=can%20room%20temperature%20affect%20determination%20of%20time%20of%20death%3F&f=false
In the AR the temperature of the hospital room was recorded and included in the autopsy report. Page 3 of the Autopsy Report:
"The ambient temperature in the hospital room was 68 degrees F at 1815"
This was noted because it is used as a factor in determine TOD. The problem is that the person who died did not do so in that hospital room by all accounts they were already deceased when discovered at Carolwood. the heat was blasted in that room in the middle of summer. The reason for this may very well been to make TOD impossible.
When bodies are stored they are done so in refrigeration to slow the decomposition process, this doesn't stop it but can significantly slow it down. This would mean that if this body was of a recently deceased person, it could have been refrigerated, then moved to the Carolwood home and the surrounding temperature of the room would affect the temperature of the body. There is also the possibility as has been stated that this was a person who was brain dead and on life support and that this life support was turned off on or near June 25, 2009. Again the body would have had to have been moved to the Carolwood home or the equipment removed before 911 was called.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f264/IndigoDreams0007/TOD2.png)
http://books.google.ca/books?id=3tO9uJOXktsC&pg=PA91&lpg=PA91&dq=does+refrigeration+of+a+body+stop+decomposition%3F&source=bl&ots=reOgEN6UxT&sig=sNRM5uOcSjr8yBppS9oMElSu2xg&hl=en&ei=nmorTaO5NJK4sAPG96S1Bg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAw#v=onepage&q&f=false
I don't want to go into too much about myself personally here but my mother died alone, of a heart attack, in her mobile home, in the latter part of the month of May. The inside of the house was sweltering. She was discovered approximately 7-8 hours after she had passed away and decomposition was to such an extent that we were not able to view her before her funeral.
So if Michael (or anyone else) had passed away in that extremely hot room, hours before 911 was called, without refrigeration...
1. The body would have been showing signs of decomposition.
2. He definitely would not be appearing as he does in that ambulance photograph.
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100% right SD.
No authority involved is going to be fooled by a real body. They are trying to fabricate a reality and convince us of it despite a mountain of evidence to the contrary.
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Oh goodness Bec, I'm so glad you said this. I composed a post this morning saying as much then didn't submit it because I thought I'd get accused of criticising TS!
I think TS does not always direct us to the 'truth', but sometimes (as now) sends us on wild goose chases with red herrings (sorry for any non English speakers who probably think I've lost my marbles!), especially if we get too close to uncovering what really happened. Assuming TS and MJ are linked, he doesn't want us working it all out. MJ wants OUR jaws on the floor as well as the rest of the world's!
And you know how TS never just comes out and says it the way it is, there's always something cryptic about his posts and redirects. This one today could be taken, and has been by many, to mean there was a body used, but TS will easily be able to come back and explain that it was just meant to show MJ's body wasn't involved i.e. he's not dead!
TS is a tricky one, but in a good way. A good storyteller doesn't give too much away. We're the children gathered around Michael with our mouths open, glued to every word.
Just going by what MJ has done in the past. Illusion and magic are key elements. His world is make-up, professional artists and actors, lots of technology, knowledge of various fields including medical. With all the gruesomeness of Thriller, or in the real world of movie-making such as Pirates of the Caribbean, there is no real decaying corpse involved. When BAM has come and MJ hopefully does some explaining, I don't think he's going to tell us some funny outtakes about when things went wrong and rigormortis kicked in and scared everyone, or everyone was gagging at the smell, or the eyelids wouldn't close and they ripped them trying to close them, on and on.
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I also tend to think that there was no real body. Because of what has been stated here but also because I absolutely don't understand the reaction of paramedics. They supposedly first believed that the person was dead for quite some time (one hour or so) but they rushed to perform CPR without checking the body temperature. If they had that first belief, the first thing to do is to check the body temp, no? And this conveniently or not does not permit anyone to know the exact time of death ... to keep some mystery in all of this?? Or can it be useful somehow?
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imo there could'nt have been a terminally ill person in the mix, the AR showed nothing terminally wrong with the body they autopsied.
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When BAM has come and MJ hopefully does some explaining, I don't think he's going to tell us some funny outtakes about when things went wrong and rigormortis kicked in and scared everyone, or everyone was gagging at the smell, or the eyelids wouldn't close and they ripped them trying to close them, on and on.
Thanks - I just laughed out loud when I read this!! :lol:
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When BAM has come and MJ hopefully does some explaining, I don't think he's going to tell us some funny outtakes about when things went wrong and rigormortis kicked in and scared everyone, or everyone was gagging at the smell, or the eyelids wouldn't close and they ripped them trying to close them, on and on.
Thanks - I just laughed out loud when I read this!! :lol:
Me too :lol:
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Supporting SD & Souza. Well said.
Getting back to the chopper videos where the "full" bag was exchanged by a "flat" bag (not coroner bags but white linens with more or less underneath"), I think there was a body or a mannequin at some moment, being "exchanged". There were even two choppers on the roof of UCLA.
Remembering that the person from the ambulance did sit up at the stretcher when entering UCLA, I'd say it was neither a dead person nor a mannequin playing the "full" bag part.
When they got into the coroner's car, the white linen was taken away and there was a "bee-hive" in and out of the car and I really counted, I admit, how many and who got in and out LOL.
Cedar's Hospital
We were told that Michael was seen in the area around Cedar's in April 2009:
Michael Jackson's SUV Hits Ambulance
The King Of Pop Michael Jackson has reportedly been involved in a bizarre car smash involving an ambulance and some paparazzi in Los Angeles.
http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2009/04/michael-jacksons-suv-hits-ambulance
Cedar's specialize in immunobiology, lung disease, cancer, heart disorders and do have a neurosurgical institute.
http://www.cedars-sinai.edu/
Ronald Reagan UCLA Medical Center is a teaching hospital and is specialized as to trauma patients. Ronald Reagan has been in some controversial discussion, however is ranking among the best hospitals in the U.S. as to:
* Adult and Pediatric Organ Transplantation
* Cancer
* Geriatrics
* Heart Care
* Mental Health
* Minimally Invasive and Robotic Surgeries
* Ophthalmology
* Orthopaedics
* Pediatric and Adolescent Medicine
* Spine and Brain Disorders
http://health.usnews.com/best-hospitals/ronald-reagan-university-of-california-los-angeles-medical-center-6931755/about-us
The mansion:
The second entrance with the underground garage made Carolwood mansion a very strategic place. Close to Sunset Boulevard, a major traffic axis, not too far from neither Cedar's nor UCLA. It was hear-say that nobody was allowed upstairs in the mansion except Michael.
All of this fits well into an care plan for a dear friend.
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Oh goodness Bec, I'm so glad you said this. I composed a post this morning saying as much then didn't submit it because I thought I'd get accused of criticising TS!
I think TS does not always direct us to the 'truth', but sometimes (as now) sends us on wild goose chases with red herrings (sorry for any non English speakers who probably think I've lost my marbles!), especially if we get too close to uncovering what really happened. Assuming TS and MJ are linked, he doesn't want us working it all out. MJ wants OUR jaws on the floor as well as the rest of the world's!
And you know how TS never just comes out and says it the way it is, there's always something cryptic about his posts and redirects. This one today could be taken, and has been by many, to mean there was a body used, but TS will easily be able to come back and explain that it was just meant to show MJ's body wasn't involved i.e. he's not dead!
TS is a tricky one, but in a good way. A good storyteller doesn't give too much away. We're the children gathered around Michael with our mouths open, glued to every word.
Just going by what MJ has done in the past. Illusion and magic are key elements. His world is make-up, professional artists and actors, lots of technology, knowledge of various fields including medical. With all the gruesomeness of Thriller, or in the real world of movie-making such as Pirates of the Caribbean, there is no real decaying corpse involved. When BAM has come and MJ hopefully does some explaining, I don't think he's going to tell us some funny outtakes about when things went wrong and rigormortis kicked in and scared everyone, or everyone was gagging at the smell, or the eyelids wouldn't close and they ripped them trying to close them, on and on.
... and the "wild goose chases" and "red herrings" are terms used in an ARG, which is something Serenity's Dream referred to in the original post that TS is redirecting to. So, IMO, this is what TS wants to highlight ... that we have been in an ARG situtation from the start and we are not meant to figure it out too soon, hence the red herrings that Curls pointed out will no doubt continue ;)
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Oh goodness Bec, I'm so glad you said this. I composed a post this morning saying as much then didn't submit it because I thought I'd get accused of criticising TS!
I think TS does not always direct us to the 'truth', but sometimes (as now) sends us on wild goose chases with red herrings (sorry for any non English speakers who probably think I've lost my marbles!), especially if we get too close to uncovering what really happened. Assuming TS and MJ are linked, he doesn't want us working it all out. MJ wants OUR jaws on the floor as well as the rest of the world's!
And you know how TS never just comes out and says it the way it is, there's always something cryptic about his posts and redirects. This one today could be taken, and has been by many, to mean there was a body used, but TS will easily be able to come back and explain that it was just meant to show MJ's body wasn't involved i.e. he's not dead!
TS is a tricky one, but in a good way. A good storyteller doesn't give too much away. We're the children gathered around Michael with our mouths open, glued to every word.
Just going by what MJ has done in the past. Illusion and magic are key elements. His world is make-up, professional artists and actors, lots of technology, knowledge of various fields including medical. With all the gruesomeness of Thriller, or in the real world of movie-making such as Pirates of the Caribbean, there is no real decaying corpse involved. When BAM has come and MJ hopefully does some explaining, I don't think he's going to tell us some funny outtakes about when things went wrong and rigormortis kicked in and scared everyone, or everyone was gagging at the smell, or the eyelids wouldn't close and they ripped them trying to close them, on and on.
LMAO, that was hilarious. Although I agree everything can be faked, i do think there is a reasonable possibility that there really did die someone that day, although I do like the scenario without real corpse though.
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After rereading the original post that TS has redirected to, it seems to indicate that yes, a really body was used. There are less people involved in the actual hoax than it may seem, many of the witness are testifying to the events of that day, from their perspective so they are not committing perjury, and that the trial is a real proceeding.
But this is just my opinion and of course you can disagree. I have never received any hoax plan memo from anyone. ;)
I also think that the information on the alias and labeling on the blood sample are important as they also substantiate that `It Ain`t Necessarily So`; things are not as they may appear at first glance. This entire adventure, requires thinking in bigger terms, outside the box, and maybe even not what you would normally expect to find.
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Thank you, TS. It is also helpful to reread TIAI update #4d: 777+999= Greatest Proof Hoax, Not Murder, especially parts 4-36, 4-37, 4-38, 4-42, and 4-43.
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@Serenity....I'm sorry to hear that about your mom..... :(
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When BAM has come and MJ hopefully does some explaining, I don't think he's going to tell us some funny outtakes about when things went wrong and rigormortis kicked in and scared everyone, or everyone was gagging at the smell, or the eyelids wouldn't close and they ripped them trying to close them, on and on.
Thanks - I just laughed out loud when I read this!! :lol:
Me too :lol:
:lol: :lol: and we know he loves telling stories! "...We initially wanted one real corpse but as we had 2 of everything else, we decided to have 2 corpses as well... "
Swiftly moving on...
I have done a bit of research on Gershwin, and in addition to what SerenityDreams has already mentioned I found out that Lady Gaga performed a surprise show at the Oak room in New York and sang G Gershwin's "Someone to watch over me". Whilst it may be an unrelated event, the lyrics are very nearly relevant. ;)
Lady Gaga surprise performance at Plaza Hotel in NYC
January 6th, 2011 7:36 pm ET
No tickets were sold and no announcements were made for the surprise performance by Lady Gaga at the Plaza Hotel's Oak Room bar in Manhattan.
Lady Gaga is an old friend of resident musician Brian Newman. Rolling Stone reports Lady Gaga also performed a trio of covers with the musician in September.
During her performance Wednesday night in NYC, Lady Gaga sang versions of Nat King Cole's “Orange Colored Sky” and George Gershwin's “Someone to Watch Over Me.”
Lady Gaga's impromptu performance was made wearing a scant black outfit, thigh-high tights, black boots, white powder on her face and smudged black eyeliner.
According to the New York Daily News, a rep for the Oak Room said, “There were no tickets sold. She sang three songs as a surprise gig because she's friends with the musician we have on Wednesdays, Brian Newman.”
http://www.examiner.com/city-buzz-in-new-york/lady-gaga-surprise-performance-at-plaza-hotel-nyc
" Someone To Watch Over Me "
There's a saying old says that love is blind,
Still we're often told, "Seek and ye shall find."
So I'm going to seek a certain lad I've had in mind.
Looking everywhere, haven't found him yet;
He's the big affair I cannot forget.
Only man I ever think of with regret.
I'd like to add his initials to my monogram.
Tell me, where is the shepherd for this lost lamb?
Chorus:
There's a somebody I'm longing to see,
I hope that he turns out to be
Someone who'll watch over me.
I'm a little lamb who's lost in the wood.
I know I could always be good
To one who'll watch over me.
Although he may not be the man some girls think of as handsome.
To my heart he carries the key.
Won't you tell him please to put on some speed,
Follow my lead, oh, how I need
Someone who'll watch over me.
With L.O.V.E
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Thanks for the redirect, TS.
Wow- lots of info to digest... That's all I have right now. My brain hurts...
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by RK » Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:37 am
If someone was on life support it would not be hard to get the death date to line up with the numerology of the hoax. It would be a matter of turning off the machine. Just a thought.
And Propofol is used as sedation for mechanically ventilated adults according to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propofol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propofol)
Oh goodness Bec, I'm so glad you said this. I composed a post this morning saying as much then didn't submit it because I thought I'd get accused of criticising TS!
I think TS does not always direct us to the 'truth', but sometimes (as now) sends us on wild goose chases with red herrings (sorry for any non English speakers who probably think I've lost my marbles!), especially if we get too close to uncovering what really happened. Assuming TS and MJ are linked, he doesn't want us working it all out. MJ wants OUR jaws on the floor as well as the rest of the world's!
And you know how TS never just comes out and says it the way it is, there's always something cryptic about his posts and redirects. This one today could be taken, and has been by many, to mean there was a body used, but TS will easily be able to come back and explain that it was just meant to show MJ's body wasn't involved i.e. he's not dead!
TS is a tricky one, but in a good way. A good storyteller doesn't give too much away. We're the children gathered around Michael with our mouths open, glued to every word.
Just going by what MJ has done in the past. Illusion and magic are key elements. His world is make-up, professional artists and actors, lots of technology, knowledge of various fields including medical. With all the gruesomeness of Thriller, or in the real world of movie-making such as Pirates of the Caribbean, there is no real decaying corpse involved. When BAM has come and MJ hopefully does some explaining, I don't think he's going to tell us some funny outtakes about when things went wrong and rigormortis kicked in and scared everyone, or everyone was gagging at the smell, or the eyelids wouldn't close and they ripped them trying to close them, on and on.
... and the "wild goose chases" and "red herrings" are terms used in an ARG, which is something Serenity's Dream referred to in the original post that TS is redirecting to. So, IMO, this is what TS wants to highlight ... that we have been in an ARG situtation from the start and we are not meant to figure it out too soon, hence the red herrings that Curls pointed out will no doubt continue ;)
Completely OT:
Is that red herring term significant? Where does it come from? The only reason I ask is because "herring" makes me think of the Broadway Monty Python play "Spamalot" that I saw a couple years ago. (The Knights of Ni tell King Author he has to cut down a tree with a herring. lol) One of the songs in Spamalot is "I'm Not Dead Yet".
Part of the song:
I am not dead yet
I can dance and I can sing
I am not dead yet
I can do the Highland Fling
I am not dead yet
No need to go to bed
No need to call the doctor
Cause I'm not yet dead.
As I said completely off topic but every time I see that word herring on this board I think of that. Cracks me up. lol
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Also a Python fan :D
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If you concede that the EMTs are real and not in on it, then you must concede that the 911 call was real.
One leads to the other.
I don't believe there was a real body of any sort, at any time in this hoax. I've thrown out lots of reasons why in the past, but I guess it really boils down to just gut instinct... a hunch.
Hard to do anything all for L.O.V.E. while mishandling a corpse. It's super bad PR. Dead bodies are not part of family friendly entertainment and MJ has always created entertainment appropriate for people of all ages.
I have a feeling TS is messing with us.
TS never messed with us before, why would he do it now? I don't think so. There has to be some key people who are in on the hoax in the authorities like in the D.A, the coroner, in the courts etc. Especially if Michael is under some kind of protection program. Why would it be hard to find a dead body who died soon? A fake autopsy could be established easily as long as the authorities are in on it. The dead body was probably needed just for the paramedics and probably some doctors at UCLA. And they used a different name so the doctors would not need to ask how it could be MJ since he didn't look any like him. The 911 call(s) we heard were fake but do we know that they are the only calls? Maybe there's a real call but Michael didn't want it to be heard and gave the fake ones on purpose as a clue. There has to be some real players in this game to make it look real.
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@Serenity....I'm sorry to hear that about your mom..... :(
Thank you anewfan.
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From the beginning I have always thought it was ATTEMPTED MURDER. I think Michael was really transported to the hospital and I think that UCLA which is known for reviving the dead, helped bring Michael back. Now they are trying to get the perpetrators of the murder and the only way to do so is if it goes to trail and then the truth comes out.
If UCLA did indeed bring Michael back to life, and he has now gone into hiding, it would explain all the inconsistencies with the death certificate and the delaying of the burial, etc. Some people are aware that Michael survived and some are just trying to find out if he is and jumping on the bandwagon. A lot of them are scumbags but we will soon know who is on which side. It will be like judgment day where there will all be separated into good and evil.
I don't believe that Michael is doing this just for a movie, yes he is filming it to be the best movie ever but it is real and he was in danger and you can bet that the film will be a thriller.
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No real dead human body. EVER.
@ Bec, THANK YOU. Mishandling, or what constitutes disrespect/abuse of a corpse is a crime everywhere. Not only would it be difficult to convince people anything MJ planned these last years was "all for love", additionally, he would spend the remainder of his life with the NEW tag as the spook who moved on to necromancy, and ruin like no one ever imagined.
I am certain, also, that the Michael Jackson at heart, exposed in the lyrics he penned himself, and the songs he chose to sing, and the kind loving actions he has done with his life and time (and fortune), is good, decent man, who would seriously recoil at hijacking, borrowing, bargaining for (pre-mortem), or any which way, utilizing a real human's remains, no matter WHO advised him during this ARG's planning.
This goes double for the idea that MJ would involve himself in assisted suicide (or any manner of attendance or approval of anyone's life willingly or arbitrarily being drained from their body, terminally ill or not). MJ is the eternally hopeful diehard. He wants everyone to LIVE forever. With God ALL things are possible; everything can turn around, as long as evil people do not interfere.
Besides, if an ill person in the hospital even looks as if they are close to death(within, say, days), it is not allowed for them to be discharged from the hospital, NO way, and anyone conspiring to help them leave would be prosecuted. So no ill friend of his could have offered himself for Hoax purposes, either.
Everyone who is saying they saw or handled a dead body is lying, or they could be giving true testimony about a completely different scene, which was subsequently (creatively) spliced to the MJ "death" story. After all, no EMT appeared on TV talking about this, we only heard some one say they said these things about "MJ's not looking recognizable, etc..." We have become accustomed to accepting words by anybody as fact, because it is the nature of news on TV, to report about someone else, when actually, unless it is THE first person speaking, we can't trust ANY of it. Just accept that. It is at best, scary entertainment, gossip. :roll:
@Souza, :lol: :lol: "Law and Order & Punked". INDEED. I love it :!:
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It's Her, I missed your post from the 1st but this is exactly what I have been trying to say for a year and a half on the subject. Real corpse? No way, it just makes no sense to use a real body. Ick. No. God. Why bother. Gross. It's so unnecessary and macabre and shady. Why be so family-friendly everywhere else and blow the whole thing into weirdo freak-show land by using a real dead body during the big illusion.
It would be like David Copperfield doing the "cut the lady in half" trick by actually chainsawing through a corpse on stage instead of the fake kicking legs sticking out of the box. Um... not so fun.
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Bec wrote: Real corpse? No way, it just makes no sense to use a real body. Ick.
I have to agree with you Bec...ooouwww! But, I woudl like to know what the heck happened to E Cas. There was talk at one time that he was very ill, cancelled all his shows, and took down his myspace page. Others said they saw a picture of him at the Memorial, but I didn't think it looked like him at all. What if E Cas, who rumor had it was very ill, took Michael's place on June 25, 2009. The paramedic's statement about Micahel initially deceibed him as an old man, a hospice patient. Just thinkin' :ugeek:
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Bec wrote: Real corpse? No way, it just makes no sense to use a real body. Ick.
I have to agree with you Bec...ooouwww! But, I woudl like to know what the heck happened to E Cas. There was talk at one time that he was very ill, cancelled all his shows, and took down his myspace page. Others said they saw a picture of him at the Memorial, but I didn't think it looked like him at all. What if E Cas, who rumor had it was very ill, took Michael's place on June 25, 2009. The paramedic's statement about Micahel initially deceibed him as an old man, a hospice patient. Just thinkin' :ugeek:
This is something that I have considered as well... but I do think there was a body involved; a double.
I saw E Cas' MySpace page saying he was terminally ill...then he disappeared along with this post and the page. The photo of him at the Memorial was revealed as photo-shopped by Tom/Piano Games I believe. Then he popped up again out of nowhere after another investigator started in on the twin theory on YT... E Cas has since put up a new MySpace page along with a newly released song ?! Give me a break. :roll:
Read his blog entries; something's going on. :?
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It's Her, I missed your post from the 1st but this is exactly what I have been trying to say for a year and a half on the subject. Real corpse? No way, it just makes no sense to use a real body. Ick. No. God. Why bother. Gross. It's so unnecessary and macabre and shady. Why be so family-friendly everywhere else and blow the whole thing into weirdo freak-show land by using a real dead body during the big illusion.
It would be like David Copperfield doing the "cut the lady in half" trick by actually chainsawing through a corpse on stage instead of the fake kicking legs sticking out of the box. Um... not so fun.
Yes! Exactly! "Cut the lady in half TRICK"
This is MJ's greatest ILLUSION. It is a massive and clever TRICK. NO one (particularly Michael Jackson---The Greatest Entertainer Who Ever Lived :D ), uses a real dead body for an ILLUSION. :roll: :roll:
Hi Bec, I guess I didn't know you had said this before; I try to stay out of the "messier" parts of the Hoax investigation :lol: (I am waiting for the movie version :lol: :lol: ). (and, I tend to stick with the more "philosophical" :) aspects.) But, I was SO tickled to read your good old horse sense here on this thread! 8-) It was a no-brainer as well for me.
MJ is a master magician---how many magicians have any of us EVER seen pull a corpse outta their hats??? Eeewwww.
:lol:
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^^None. That's icky :lol: