Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators

Latest News => The Redirects => TIAI => The Plan (Qanon, TIAI, BACK) => TIAI ~ 2010 => Topic started by: GodhaschosenMJ on November 18, 2010, 12:24:23 AM

Title: TIAI November 18
Post by: GodhaschosenMJ on November 18, 2010, 12:24:23 AM
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=ASV (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Job%201:6-22&version=ASV)
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: RK on November 18, 2010, 12:32:35 AM
Ah....the story of God's servant Job. I'm thinking of the end of Job's trials where God restored everything that was stolen from him many times over. I have always had the impression that things will be similar for our Mike.  Thankyou TS. As I'm way late for work I will study this when I get home at depth.
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: Serenitys_Dream on November 18, 2010, 12:35:29 AM
Job 1:6-22 (American Standard Version)

 6 Now it came to pass on the day when the sons of God came to present themselves before Jehovah, that Satan also came among them.

 7 And Jehovah said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered Jehovah, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

 8 And Jehovah said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job? for there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and turneth away from evil.

 9 Then Satan answered Jehovah, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?

 10 Hast not thou made a hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath, on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.

 11 But put forth thy hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will renounce thee to thy face.

 12 And Jehovah said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thy hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of Jehovah.

 13 And it fell on a day when his sons and his daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house,

 14 that there came a messenger unto Job, and said, The oxen were plowing, and the asses feeding beside them;

 15 and the Sabeans fell upon them, and took them away: yea, they have slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.

 16 While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The fire of God is fallen from heaven, and hath burned up the sheep and the servants, and consumed them; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.

 17 While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The Chaldeans made three bands, and fell upon the camels, and have taken them away, yea, and slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.

 18 While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, Thy sons and thy daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house;

 19 and, behold, there came a great wind from the wilderness, and smote the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young men, and they are dead; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.

 20 Then Job arose, and rent his robe, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground, and worshipped;

 21 and he said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: Jehovah gave, and Jehovah hath taken away; blessed be the name of Jehovah.

 22 In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.
http://http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Job%201:6-22&version=ASV
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: voiceforthesilent on November 18, 2010, 12:36:41 AM
When I think of Job I think of "the patience of Job". Are we being told to be patient?

But yes, because of Job's faithfulness he was blessed more in the end than he was up to that point in his life. I really hope this story of Michael turns out like the story of Job....what a day of rejoicing that will be!
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: Serenitys_Dream on November 18, 2010, 12:49:18 AM
Since I don't know the meaning of this I looked it up.  :D

Satan obtains leave to try Job.
Job's afflictions began from the malice of Satan, by the Lord's permission, for wise and holy purposes. There is an evil spirit, the enemy of God, and of all righteousness, who is continually seeking to distress, to lead astray, and, if possible, to destroy those who love God. How far his influence may extend, we cannot say; but probably much unsteadiness and unhappiness in Christians may be ascribed to him. While we are on this earth we are within his reach. Hence it concerns us to be sober and vigilant, 1Pe 5:8.

See how Satan censures Job. This is the common way of slanderers, to suggest that which they have no reason to think is true. But as there is nothing we should dread more than really being hypocrites, so there is nothing we need dread less than being called and counted so without cause. It is not wrong to look at the eternal recompence in our obedience; but it is wrong to aim at worldly advantages in our religion.

God's people are taken under his special protection; they, and all that belong to them. The blessing of the Lord makes rich; Satan himself owns it. God suffered Job to be tried, as he suffered Peter to be sifted. It is our comfort that God has the devil in a chain, Re 20:1. He has no power to lead men to sin, but what they give him themselves; nor any power to afflict men, but what is given him from above. All this is here described to us after the manner of men. The Scripture speaks thus to teach us that God directs the affairs of the world. (Job 1:13-19)
http://http://www.biblegateway.com/resources/commentaries/?action=getCommentaryText&cid=35&source=2&seq=i.22.1.2

The Book of Job
The Book of Job is one of the books of the Hebrew Bible. It relates the story of Job, who was not Jewish, and in Jewish tradition is the son of Utz, who was the son of Nahor, the brother of Abraham. It tells of his trials at the hands of God, his theological discussions with friends on the origins and nature of his suffering, his challenge to God, and finally a response from God. The Book itself comprises a didactic poem set in a prose frame and has been called "the most profound and literary work of the entire Old Testament". The Book itself and its numerous exegeses are attempts to address the problem of evil.

Narrative
There was an extremely pious man named Job. He was very prosperous, and had seven sons and three daughters. Constantly fearing that his sons may have sinned and "cursed God in their hearts", he habitually offered burnt offerings as a pardon for their sins.

The "sons of God" and Satan (literally "the adversary") present themselves to God. God asks Satan his opinion on Job, apparently a truly pious man. Satan answers that Job is pious only because God put a "wall around" him and "blessed" his favorite servant with prosperity. But if God touches "his possessions", then Job would curse him. God gives Satan permission to test Job's righteousness.

All of Job's possessions are destroyed and a 'ruach' (wind/spirit) causes the house of the firstborn to collapse killing all of Job's offspring who were gathered for a feast. Job does not curse God after this but instead shaves his head, tears his clothes and says, "Naked I came out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return: Lord has given, and Lord has taken away; blessed be the name of Lord".

As Job endures these calamities without reproaching Divine Providence, Satan solicits permission to afflict his person as well, and God says, "Behold, he is in your hand, but don't touch his life." Satan, therefore, smites him with dreadful boils, and Job, seated in ashes, scrapes his skin with broken pottery. His wife prompts him to "curse God, and die" but Job answers, "You speak as one of the foolish speaks. Moreover, shall we receive good from God and shall not receive evil?"

Three friends of Job, Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite, and Zophar the Naamathite, come to console him. And the three of Job's friends heard all this evil that came on him, and they came every man from his place — Eliphaz the Temanite (Heb: Aliphaz the Thimanite), Bildad the Shuhite (Heb: Bildad the Shuchite), and Zophar Naamathite (Heb: Zuphar the Nomathite). A fourth, Elihu the Buzite (Heb: Alieua ben Barakal the Buzite), first begins talking in chapter 32 and plays a significant role in the dialogue; however, his arrival is not described. The friends spend 7 days sitting on the ground with Job, without saying anything to him because they see that he is suffering and in much pain. Job at last breaks his silence and "curses the day he was born".
http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Job
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: lilwendy on November 18, 2010, 12:54:46 AM
For those of you that take offense to any mention of religion, God, etc.  Do not read my post.  It's for TS anyway.  ;)

TS, I know this is a clue and all, but I have to thank you.... I'm crying right now as I type this.
By no means do I compare myself to Job as my life is extremely blessed.  I do, however, have one area in my life that constantly gets attacked once I make a decision to make a stand or do something for God, and that's my health.

Today I was flat on my back with muscle spasms, yet another health challenge I was blessed to be afflicted with recently.  I was feeling very low.

This redirect put EVERYTHING back into perspective for me.  I will not charge God foolishly TS!  I WILL NOT!  And despite ANY AND EVERY challenge that comes my way, let God's name be glorified!

Thank you TS!!!
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: emeraldcity on November 18, 2010, 01:11:56 AM
I think this redirect follows on from the discussions which were engendered in the redirect of 16/11.  Mike's faith, like that of Job, has been refined and strengthened by adversity.  It's all very well to have faith in a guiding power when everything is going well in life.  A different matter altogether when you're facing seemingly insurmountable hurdles, people are accusing you of crimes you are totally innocent of, and even your own body appears to be turning against you (in Job's case, the boils that covered his entire body ... in Mike's case, the vitiligo and lupis).

Thank you TS for your continued guidance.  We may have differing points of view when it comes to religion/spirituality/personal belief systems ... however I'm sure the collective LOVE I see expressed for Michael and HIS beliefs outweighs any differences.  Love & peace to all, emerald xo
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: MJonmind on November 18, 2010, 01:16:19 AM
Emeraldcity, I agree on the connection between Job's boils and MJ's skin condition.

My thoughts: there are only two places in the Bible that the phrase 'Sons of God' are used, this place in Job 1:6 and also twice in Genesis 6:1-8. Some Bible scholars have thought they were sons of Seth, but I disagree, I believe they were aliens very similar to humans but from outside of earth. They were not angels because the Bible consistently uses other terminology for angelic beings. (I have more controversial beliefs about these beings which I've mentioned elsewhere.)

 
Quote
1And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

 2That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

 3And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

 4There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

 5And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

 6And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

 7And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

 8But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

Also yes, this story about Job is a deep discussion on the problem of suffering and pain. When we realize that both come from the hand of God because God has created Satan our tormentor, it will bring us peace and trust. Like Joseph who went through many trials, in the end said to his brothers, "You meant it for evil (selling him into slavery) but God meant it for good to save many lives." Like Job was blessed in the end with double all that he had before, so Joseph became the second in the command over all Egypt. I believe Michael Jackson was blessed in many ways in his life, but when God is through with him, he will be blessed doubley or perhaps more than we can even imagine, to save many lives.
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: Serenitys_Dream on November 18, 2010, 01:31:11 AM
Quote from: "MJonmind"
Also yes, this story about Job is a deep discussion on the problem of suffering and pain. When we realize that both come from the hand of God because God has created Satan our tormentor, it will bring us peace and trust. Like Joseph who went through many trials, in the end said to his brothers, "You meant it for evil (selling him into slavery) but God meant it for good to save many lives." Like Job was blessed in the end with double all that he had before, so Joseph became the second in the command over all Egypt. I believe Michael Jackson was blessed in many ways in his life, but when God is through with him, he will be blessed doubley or perhaps more than we can even imagine, to save many lives.

Thank you so much for clearly clarifying the significance of this redirection.
It may also be an answer to some of the questions that have been raised, on the forum, asking things like "If there is a God, why did he let Michael suffer so much".
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: navibl on November 18, 2010, 04:21:44 AM
Sweet Jesus,  Just when I was about to go to sleep here at 2:45 AM.  I remember I had not checked the redirect and low and behold, as I was feeling alone and desolate today, here we have JOB...I think I read somewhere that Michael loved the story of JOB.  Rightfully so.  Michael has been tempted and tested in EVERY area if his life.  And what a victory he is about to have in his life!!!!

Lucifer aka Satan was the most beautiful Angel in heaven, but he decided one day he wanted to take Gods place...YEAH RIGHT!!!!! ok so when you challenge God well, lets just say God created a very HOT place for Satan to live and he is about to be sent there.  

But Satan thought Job to be weak and only love and serve God because of his wealth.  BUT God knew Jobs heart and he knew that JOB would never renouce him.  God used Job to show for the centuries to come that if we are faithful and steadfast that not only will Satan be defeated, our loss and mourning will be turned into ten fold gain and rejoycing.

We just have to have patients and faith when we are tried by Satan,  NOT by God.  Gods word says he will not allow anymore to come against us than we can bare. So do you see how Michael was able to with stand Satan coming at him in all directions of his life?  But yet he said he kept this faith in God.  And he came through.  Why would we think, that because Satan was out to destroy Michael and take his life, Michael would just sit by and let it happen?  God gave Michael a plan just like he gave him the music.

God knows Michael’s heart and that he would not give in and turn his back on God because the going got tough.  Everything happening with Michael makes the statement true, that when the going gets tough, the tough get going.    God never caused anything to go wrong in Jobs life, he just allowed Satan to test Job because God knew what Job was made of.

If God had thought that Job would buckle under pressure he would have stepped in and delivered Job, but God knew that people would read of Job and be inspired by his testimony. And indeed so many received encouragements to know that God does restore all that is lost.  I am experiencing this same type thing in my own life now, but I know if I hold fast, God is my provider, and my ever present help in time of need and I will not be swayed or discouraged, because God is never too early or too late, he is always always right on time.  Michael’s return will be in the same manner, so we need to hold fast.
Here is a most beautiful song to describe what is important.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Hny-xp4k9c (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Hny-xp4k9c)

If we keep our faith in Christ Jesus, Satan cannot do more to us that God knows we can withstand, and it is always used as a testimony of how great God is and how much he loves us.  It is an amazing fact that the CREATOR of the Universe is IN LOVE with US and  Job is a beautiful example of that.
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: MJonmind on November 18, 2010, 06:16:03 AM
Quote from: "Serenitys_Dream"
Quote from: "MJonmind"
Also yes, this story about Job is a deep discussion on the problem of suffering and pain. When we realize that both come from the hand of God because God has created Satan our tormentor, it will bring us peace and trust. Like Joseph who went through many trials, in the end said to his brothers, "You meant it for evil (selling him into slavery) but God meant it for good to save many lives." Like Job was blessed in the end with double all that he had before, so Joseph became the second in the command over all Egypt. I believe Michael Jackson was blessed in many ways in his life, but when God is through with him, he will be blessed doubley or perhaps more than we can even imagine, to save many lives.

Thank you so much for clearly clarifying the significance of this redirection.
It may also be an answer to some of the questions that have been raised, on the forum, asking things like "If there is a God, why did he let Michael suffer so much".
Your very welcome. My interpretations are very unorthodox however, and Navibl above expresses the orthodox view if that is the direction you wish to go. With all respect, I have come to believe that Scripture says God is fully sovereign (full control) and isn't somehow frustrated that Satan turned evil, messed up His perfect plans and so He had to re-adjust things and go to plan B. The ONLY way God is truly LOVE and not unbelievably sadistical (hell) is that every single being, and person created is tried, suffers, has their heart changed miraculously (pre-determined) to enjoy a resurrected forever existence with God. God is omnicient (all-knowing), so did He not know Satan would turn "rebellious" and all humans follow after him like dumb sheep? I believe the Bible actually teaches all this but it is subtle, on purpose. Suffering of every single human is preparation to be fellow heirs of God with Christ. Suffering was part of the making of all the greats in the Bible including Christ. There is an interpretative concept of Progressive Revelation throughout the Bible, similar to this hoax in that truths are dispensed on a time-line withholding key truth until the right time. As a result there is much confusion, division, and doubt throughout history and now, but it's the (C)creator who's in charge and it will all ultimately end in full clarity and GOOD for all. JMO
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: Sarahli on November 18, 2010, 07:08:22 AM
Thank you TS I could not prevent the tears... this is pure and unwavering faith, we should never blame God for the bad things that happens in our lives, if you keep the faith this will be turned into a GREAT RECOMPENSE and for eternity. So just keep the faith in God's Mercy, no matter what happens. The path was never meant to be easy but steadfastness through the burdens, pains and sufferings is rewarded and this is a promise that God has made.
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: trublu on November 18, 2010, 07:12:20 AM
Oh talk of Satan, what fun.

As I am not religious and don't believe in Satan I am just trying to figure out the message behind it.
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: Sarahli on November 18, 2010, 07:14:55 AM
Quote from: "trublu"
Oh talk of Satan, what fun.

As I am not religious and don't believe in Satan I am just trying to figure out the message behind it.

Basically the message is... keep the faith no matter what.
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: trublu on November 18, 2010, 07:15:53 AM
Quote from: "Sarahli"
Quote from: "trublu"
Oh talk of Satan, what fun.

As I am not religious and don't believe in Satan I am just trying to figure out the message behind it.

Basically the message is... keep the faith no matter what.

Keep the faith in terms of Michael or in terms of God or both?
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: Sarahli on November 18, 2010, 07:22:52 AM
Quote from: "trublu"
Quote from: "Sarahli"
Quote from: "trublu"
Oh talk of Satan, what fun.

As I am not religious and don't believe in Satan I am just trying to figure out the message behind it.

Basically the message is... keep the faith no matter what.

Keep the faith in terms of Michael or in terms of God or both?

I don't know if this is also what TS wants to convey as a message but it corresponds to Michael who kept the faith in God despite what he had to go through...  but as you don't believe in God... keep the faith into beLIEving in the hoax despite the confusion?

I think that TS redirected to these verses because of the last discussions for the last redirect. So maybe that it is not hoax related... idk.
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: Tarja on November 18, 2010, 07:25:42 AM
I feel like everything has drifted away from Michael and it all became a religious thing, with almost daily redirects to the Bible. And because people want to get to the bottom of it all, they read it today, read it tomorrow and they'll end up without even noticing thet they've read the whole Bible. people start to develop the situation exposed in these quotes and almost don't notice how far away from the subject they go. The subject is MICHAEL and the main important thing.  Not the Bible, nor Satan nor God. And the answer in the end is what? Nothing. Just the analysis of another Bible quote.

It's everyone's decision if they want to read the Bible or not and forcing people into it won't lead to anything. It all became all about religion and nothing about Michael. I don't say the Bible is good or bad, I just don't read either believe in it. Is that if those who don't read or believe the Bible have no rights to have normal answers? I don't find any answer in those quotes and either I find any connections.
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: Sarahli on November 18, 2010, 08:20:08 AM
Quote from: "Tarja"
I feel like everything has drifted away from Michael and it all became a religious thing, with almost daily redirects to the Bible. And because people want to get to the bottom of it all, they read it today, read it tomorrow and they'll end up without even noticing thet they've read the whole Bible. people start to develop the situation exposed in these quotes and almost don't notice how far away from the subject they go. The subject is MICHAEL and the main important thing.  Not the Bible, nor Satan nor God. And the answer in the end is what? Nothing. Just the analysis of another Bible quote.

It's everyone's decision if they want to read the Bible or not and forcing people into it won't lead to anything. It all became all about religion and nothing about Michael. I don't say the Bible is good or bad, I just don't read either believe in it. Is that if those who don't read or believe the Bible have no rights to have normal answers? I don't find any answer in those quotes and either I find any connections.

Exactly. And if it was Michael himself re-directing to the Bible what would you say? I really want to know what would people who don't believe in God think if Michael went to be like Jesus and preaching the Bible? Would you listen or not? This is a honest question that I have because maybe that this is also part of Michael's message. Thanks.
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: AnaMarcia on November 18, 2010, 08:33:04 AM
"And Jehovah said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job? for there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and turneth away from evil."

Interestingly enough this redirection today, the day that makes seven years that Michael was arrested unjustly.
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: Tarja on November 18, 2010, 08:38:13 AM
Quote from: "Sarahli"
Quote from: "Tarja"
I feel like everything has drifted away from Michael and it all became a religious thing, with almost daily redirects to the Bible. And because people want to get to the bottom of it all, they read it today, read it tomorrow and they'll end up without even noticing thet they've read the whole Bible. people start to develop the situation exposed in these quotes and almost don't notice how far away from the subject they go. The subject is MICHAEL and the main important thing.  Not the Bible, nor Satan nor God. And the answer in the end is what? Nothing. Just the analysis of another Bible quote.

It's everyone's decision if they want to read the Bible or not and forcing people into it won't lead to anything. It all became all about religion and nothing about Michael. I don't say the Bible is good or bad, I just don't read either believe in it. Is that if those who don't read or believe the Bible have no rights to have normal answers? I don't find any answer in those quotes and either I find any connections.

Exactly. And if it was Michael himself re-directing to the Bible what would you say? I really want to know what would people who don't believe in God think if Michael went to be like Jesus and preaching the Bible? Would you listen or not? This is a honest question that I have because maybe that this is also part of Michael's message. Thanks.

Sarah, if it was Michael himself redirecting to Bible quotes I would peacefully read them because I know he is a good man and his intentions are not bad or to develop a mind control. In TS' situation I can't be sure if his intentions are also good. You understand me? I've never seen the person, never looked into his eyes. I can't be sure his intentions are good as I would be if it were Michael giving us these quotes.  There is a so big difference.I honestly answer you
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: Sarahli on November 18, 2010, 08:55:28 AM
Quote from: "Tarja"
Quote from: "Sarahli"
Quote from: "Tarja"
I feel like everything has drifted away from Michael and it all became a religious thing, with almost daily redirects to the Bible. And because people want to get to the bottom of it all, they read it today, read it tomorrow and they'll end up without even noticing thet they've read the whole Bible. people start to develop the situation exposed in these quotes and almost don't notice how far away from the subject they go. The subject is MICHAEL and the main important thing.  Not the Bible, nor Satan nor God. And the answer in the end is what? Nothing. Just the analysis of another Bible quote.

It's everyone's decision if they want to read the Bible or not and forcing people into it won't lead to anything. It all became all about religion and nothing about Michael. I don't say the Bible is good or bad, I just don't read either believe in it. Is that if those who don't read or believe the Bible have no rights to have normal answers? I don't find any answer in those quotes and either I find any connections.

Exactly. And if it was Michael himself re-directing to the Bible what would you say? I really want to know what would people who don't believe in God think if Michael went to be like Jesus and preaching the Bible? Would you listen or not? This is a honest question that I have because maybe that this is also part of Michael's message. Thanks.

Sarah, if it was Michael himself redirecting to Bible quotes I would peacefully read them because I know he is a good man and his intentions are not bad or to develop a mind control. In TS' situation I can't be sure if his intentions are also good. You understand me? I've never seen the person, never looked into his eyes. I can't be sure his intentions are good as I would be if it were Michael giving us these quotes.  There is a so big difference.I honestly answer you

Why would it change? The Bible quoted by TS or Michael is still the same... the meaning does not change, the words are still the same. How can the intention be different? TS is only re-directing without analyzing or telling people what to think. When I read these verses I've been touched by their content, by the message and it is not TS who has written it. TS is just a messenger.
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: TheRunningGirl on November 18, 2010, 08:56:58 AM
Quote from: "Sarahli"

Exactly. And if it was Michael himself re-directing to the Bible what would you say? I really want to know what would people who don't believe in God think if Michael went to be like Jesus and preaching the Bible? Would you listen or not? This is a honest question that I have because maybe that this is also part of Michael's message. Thanks.

When one beLIEve that TS and Michael are ONE... as I do, the answer is simple: I am listening!
I do not however necessarily beLIEve that our Teacher is teaching us the Bible, more using the Bible to Teach us about Values, and to establish parallels (& learnings) with "hoax" events.

Job's story is a message of Faith.
In relation to the Hoax, it means that we will hear and see messages that will lead us to question our beliefs in the Hoax (i.e. That Michael is alive) and in those time we need to remember why we believed in the first place and stick to those beliefs... 'cos there is a much greater "reward" in keeping Faith in the Hoax.

And Thank You TS for today's redirect..xx

With L.O.V.E
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: Tarja on November 18, 2010, 09:10:21 AM
Quote from: "Sarahli"
Why would it change? The Bible quoted by TS or Michael is still the same... the meaning does not change, the words are still the same. How can the intention be different? TS is only re-directing without analyzing or telling people what to think. When I read these verses I've been touched by their content, by the message and it is not TS who has written it. TS is just a messenger.

No, you don't understand me. First, you didn't underline the sentence well, so this means to read between the lines.- which is not good.  The whole sentence would have been if it was Michael himself redirecting to Bible quotes I would peacefully read them[/b] because I know he is a good man and his intentions are not bad or to develop a mind control - from this, I explain it again. If it were Michael showing us quotes from the Bible I wouldn't think they might be probably with bad intention. Why? Because I can look into Michael's eyes, I can see it in his eyes because he is a tangible person. It's totally another thing if we regard TS. I can't look into his eyes. The eyes are the window to your soul and this can't be ingnored and considered unimportant. Even one of FBI's techinques to spot a liar is the eye to eye alaysis.  

If it were Michael giving these quotes from the Bible I wouldn't regard the possibility of a mindcontrol for objective reasons- he never did that no matter his religious beliefs. This doesn't happen with TS in my case. It's a feeling that I have since very long. Haven't you heard about mindcontrol through religious procedures? i did and also witnessed in my life and this can go far away if you don't have a strong mind. This is what I don't like about this. I don't know TS, never seen his face, never looked into his eyes so I have the right too REGARD the possibility he might not have actually only good intentions with all this. It is my right to my opinion. I hope now you got what I wanted to say with all this.

I know that the path through hell is paved with good intentions
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: suspicious mind on November 18, 2010, 09:52:14 AM
Quote from: "Tarja"
I feel like everything has drifted away from Michael and it all became a religious thing, with almost daily redirects to the Bible. And because people want to get to the bottom of it all, they read it today, read it tomorrow and they'll end up without even noticing thet they've read the whole Bible. people start to develop the situation exposed in these quotes and almost don't notice how far away from the subject they go. The subject is MICHAEL and the main important thing.  Not the Bible, nor Satan nor God. And the answer in the end is what? Nothing. Just the analysis of another Bible quote.

It's everyone's decision if they want to read the Bible or not and forcing people into it won't lead to anything. It all became all about religion and nothing about Michael. I don't say the Bible is good or bad, I just don't read either believe in it. Is that if those who don't read or believe the Bible have no rights to have normal answers? I don't find any answer in those quotes and either I find any connections.
[/size]

my advice to you : when you see the thread title and it is thia and a date. don't click on it :)
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: _Anna_ on November 18, 2010, 09:56:01 AM
I will try to put my opinion too regarding all this religious/Bible redirects, as well as I can, from my point of perceiving, and maybe the ones who find no reason ro feel bad about Bible would understand how we, the oters, think. In a way.

I am not a religious person, I've said that. Probably it depends on what everyone experienced, but some people (including myself, Tarja-who is my sister, and even some members of my family) have experienced some kind of religious brainwashing contact that led me/us to have a rejecting feeling towards religious feeding. To make a long story short, my other sister (she's older living with her fiancee)- her fiancee is very very obsessed with religion. He said that for him on the 1st place comes God, then his family.He believes in God in a psychotic way,too much and what's too much, exagerrated, is harmful. For anybody.He kinda changed my older sister's behaviour completely: she was never very religious, almost at all, like me, like Tarja, but since they are together slowly slowly he fed her this thing with religion and slowly she started to read the Bible, read a book of prayers every night, read books about some priests' lives and their convictions, step by step he brainwashed her. The guy doesn't even hold her hand when there is some religious day, nor kiss nor anything, he doesn't even turn on the computer on Sundays because it's a sin in his concept and God's rules probably. You know what I mean? That's why I am so revolted sometimes, because unlike cases when people let themselves think "what harm could the Bible do to me?", I don't react like that. Because I won't swallow what I do not want to and what doesn't connect with my sense.That's the reason why I connect religion with a bad intention.Because I consider it like a weapon.The constant feeding is what makes me see it like pushing it on me.

Second, I feel forced to read it because I want to know what happens with Michael too, like all of us do, I come here and read because deep inside I search for answers I never had. So on some kind of psychological level I feel "forced" to take the Bible into consideration just because I want to understand this situation....You know? And I want to get a non-religious point of view, not a quote from the Bible. Because automatically it's like you tie religion with Michael like they are one and for me the Bible is some kind of fiction, and in my head the hoax is immediately connected to somethhing not tangible, therefore not real and therefore like God-I am not sure wether he exists or not.

Then, there are many people who are not religious here, so it feels like discriminating; we don't have the right to receive non-religious and normal answers?it seems that if you are not religious and do not believe in the Bible's teachings you will never get the message right.Indeed, there are not only religious redirects, but most of them, more than a half, are from the Bible.

I respect Michael's faith in God and I have abslutely nothing to say against his beliefs, he is free as I am, but the fact that he believes in God doesn't mean i have to believe too, and if the religion is an important point in the hoax then the message will get only to religious people. No one will change my beliefs.And it feels like the hoax is only for who has a strong belief in God.... If I do not, doesn't mean I don't suport Michael with all my heart in everything he does.... I support him completely and I wish with all my heart to see him achieving his vision.But I feel rejected because I cannot have faith in something I never had faith in.

I tried to express the best I can the reason why I feel like this.

As you all, I need to have a lot of my questions answered, and as all of you, I come here and try to find them. But then when I read Bible quotes most of the time, I feel forced to believe and react in consequence. Why, if Michael respects people who don't believe in any religion, don't get normal messages? If Michael respects that and if TS is his messenger then I don't think he would ever force religion on anybody.He never had.Why not normal messages, quotes from books, quotes from writers, and so on?That won't offend the religious people. The message should be available to everybody, and not in a religious way.This way it means forcing.
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: MissG on November 18, 2010, 10:13:16 AM
The moral I understand after reading this last redirection is that  life has to be carried with resignation to make the best of every situation, even with the inevitable. Once we accept what comes, it is easier to survive.
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: paula-c on November 18, 2010, 10:26:35 AM
Saint job is a Biblical character under an oppressive test by Satan with the permission of God and whose dignity and temple to save adversity is used by many religions as an example of sanctity, integrity of spirit and strength to the difficulties.
wikipedia


Job 1: 6-22

there is a big question that we must do when we are passing through testing in our life.

Does God expect of us when we tested?

1.) Decide how we are going to react to these  problems
2.) Reaction with rejoicing
3.) Not to drop the head by shame or dismay under testing

when we act as expected we receive blessings.
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: suspicious mind on November 18, 2010, 10:28:15 AM
Quote from: "_Anna_"
I will try to put my opinion too regarding all this religious/Bible redirects, as well as I can, from my point of perceiving, and maybe the ones who find no reason ro feel bad about Bible would understand how we, the oters, think. In a way.

I am not a religious person, I've said that. Probably it depends on what everyone experienced, but some people (including myself, Tarja-who is my sister, and even some members of my family) have experienced some kind of religious brainwashing contact that led me/us to have a rejecting feeling towards religious feeding. To make a long story short, my other sister (she's older living with her fiancee)- her fiancee is very very obsessed with religion. He said that for him on the 1st place comes God, then his family.He believes in God in a psychotic way,too much and what's too much, exagerrated, is harmful. For anybody.He kinda changed my older sister's behaviour completely: she was never very religious, almost at all, like me, like Tarja, but since they are together slowly slowly he fed her this thing with religion and slowly she started to read the Bible, read a book of prayers every night, read books about some priests' lives and their convictions, step by step he brainwashed her. The guy doesn't even hold her hand when there is some religious day, nor kiss nor anything, he doesn't even turn on the computer on Sundays because it's a sin in his concept and God's rules probably. You know what I mean? That's why I am so revolted sometimes, because unlike cases when people let themselves think "what harm could the Bible do to me?", I don't react like that. Because I won't swallow what I do not want to and what doesn't connect with my sense.That's the reason why I connect religion with a bad intention.Because I consider it like a weapon.The constant feeding is what makes me see it like pushing it on me.

Second, I feel forced to read it because I want to know what happens with Michael too, like all of us do, I come here and read because deep inside I search for answers I never had. So on some kind of psychological level I feel "forced" to take the Bible into consideration just because I want to understand this situation....You know? And I want to get a non-religious point of view, not a quote from the Bible. Because automatically it's like you tie religion with Michael like they are one and for me the Bible is some kind of fiction, and in my head the hoax is immediately connected to somethhing not tangible, therefore not real and therefore like God-I am not sure wether he exists or not.

Then, there are many people who are not religious here, so it feels like discriminating; we don't have the right to receive non-religious and normal answers?it seems that if you are not religious and do not believe in the Bible's teachings you will never get the message right.Indeed, there are not only religious redirects, but most of them, more than a half, are from the Bible.

I respect Michael's faith in God and I have abslutely nothing to say against his beliefs, he is free as I am, but the fact that he believes in God doesn't mean i have to believe too, and if the religion is an important point in the hoax then the message will get only to religious people. No one will change my beliefs.And it feels like the hoax is only for who has a strong belief in God.... If I do not, doesn't mean I don't suport Michael with all my heart in everything he does.... I support him completely and I wish with all my heart to see him achieving his vision.But I feel rejected because I cannot have faith in something I never had faith in.

I tried to express the best I can the reason why I feel like this.

As you all, I need to have a lot of my questions answered, and as all of you, I come here and try to find them. But then when I read Bible quotes most of the time, I feel forced to believe and react in consequence. Why, if Michael respects people who don't believe in any religion, don't get normal messages? If Michael respects that and if TS is his messenger then I don't think he would ever force religion on anybody.He never had.Why not normal messages, quotes from books, quotes from writers, and so on?That won't offend the religious people. The message should be available to everybody, and not in a religious way.This way it means forcing.


i am probably gonna wish i stayed out of this but here goes.
i don't know what kind of mess your sister is in but god is not into bondage. whatever you do don't abandon her.
there are as you say many here who are not religious but they still read.
the key is not letting someone else decide for you what it means. imo this is what has happened with your sister .
since you do not believe perhaps some of those who do will take up the burdon to pray for your sisters and yourself and the situation.
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: suspicious mind on November 18, 2010, 10:36:07 AM
Quote from: "suspicious mind"
Quote from: "_Anna_"
I will try to put my opinion too regarding all this religious/Bible redirects, as well as I can, from my point of perceiving, and maybe the ones who find no reason ro feel bad about Bible would understand how we, the oters, think. In a way.

I am not a religious person, I've said that. Probably it depends on what everyone experienced, but some people (including myself, Tarja-who is my sister, and even some members of my family) have experienced some kind of religious brainwashing contact that led me/us to have a rejecting feeling towards religious feeding. To make a long story short, my other sister (she's older living with her fiancee)- her fiancee is very very obsessed with religion. He said that for him on the 1st place comes God, then his family.He believes in God in a psychotic way,too much and what's too much, exagerrated, is harmful. For anybody.He kinda changed my older sister's behaviour completely: she was never very religious, almost at all, like me, like Tarja, but since they are together slowly slowly he fed her this thing with religion and slowly she started to read the Bible, read a book of prayers every night, read books about some priests' lives and their convictions, step by step he brainwashed her. The guy doesn't even hold her hand when there is some religious day, nor kiss nor anything, he doesn't even turn on the computer on Sundays because it's a sin in his concept and God's rules probably. You know what I mean? That's why I am so revolted sometimes, because unlike cases when people let themselves think "what harm could the Bible do to me?", I don't react like that. Because I won't swallow what I do not want to and what doesn't connect with my sense.That's the reason why I connect religion with a bad intention.Because I consider it like a weapon.The constant feeding is what makes me see it like pushing it on me.

Second, I feel forced to read it because I want to know what happens with Michael too, like all of us do, I come here and read because deep inside I search for answers I never had. So on some kind of psychological level I feel "forced" to take the Bible into consideration just because I want to understand this situation....You know? And I want to get a non-religious point of view, not a quote from the Bible. Because automatically it's like you tie religion with Michael like they are one and for me the Bible is some kind of fiction, and in my head the hoax is immediately connected to somethhing not tangible, therefore not real and therefore like God-I am not sure wether he exists or not.

Then, there are many people who are not religious here, so it feels like discriminating; we don't have the right to receive non-religious and normal answers?it seems that if you are not religious and do not believe in the Bible's teachings you will never get the message right.Indeed, there are not only religious redirects, but most of them, more than a half, are from the Bible.

I respect Michael's faith in God and I have abslutely nothing to say against his beliefs, he is free as I am, but the fact that he believes in God doesn't mean i have to believe too, and if the religion is an important point in the hoax then the message will get only to religious people. No one will change my beliefs.And it feels like the hoax is only for who has a strong belief in God.... If I do not, doesn't mean I don't suport Michael with all my heart in everything he does.... I support him completely and I wish with all my heart to see him achieving his vision.But I feel rejected because I cannot have faith in something I never had faith in.

I tried to express the best I can the reason why I feel like this.

As you all, I need to have a lot of my questions answered, and as all of you, I come here and try to find them. But then when I read Bible quotes most of the time, I feel forced to believe and react in consequence. Why, if Michael respects people who don't believe in any religion, don't get normal messages? If Michael respects that and if TS is his messenger then I don't think he would ever force religion on anybody.He never had.Why not normal messages, quotes from books, quotes from writers, and so on?That won't offend the religious people. The message should be available to everybody, and not in a religious way.This way it means forcing.


i am probably gonna wish i stayed out of this but here goes.
i don't know what kind of mess your sister is in but god is not into bondage. whatever you do don't abandon her.
there are as you say many here who are not religious but they still read.
the key is not letting someone else decide for you what it means. imo this is what has happened with your sister .
since you do not believe perhaps some of those who do will take up the burdon to pray for your sisters and yourself and the situation.


feel like i need to add something. just in case the situation with your sister is not exactly as you percieve it to be and your sister has really found something special that she willingly wants for her life and it is good then it is not yours to decide for her either.
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: PureLove on November 18, 2010, 10:36:42 AM
Quote from: "Sarahli"

Basically the message is... keep the faith no matter what.

Ohh thank you so much for summarizing it. I'm a Muslim and my native language is not English. So it makes it double harder for me to understand these Bible passages TS redirects to. So if this one is about Keeping the Faith, probably TS wanted to point at this one because Randy was on and he seemed so pissed off about the album. The things he wrote on Twitter, especially when he wrote "May him rest in peace" for 4 times, my heart hurt. Whenever Randy comes to Twitter, he makes me question about the hoax. I hope he doesn't write that there's no hoax and MJ was really gone. Because that is when I will start losing my hope. But TS warned us to keep the faith whatever happens. So let's keep the faith and keep on believing in Michael and his plan. God bless you all.
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: _Anna_ on November 18, 2010, 10:41:56 AM
Quote from: "suspicious mind"


feel like i need to add something. just in case the situation with your sister is not exactly as you percieve it to be and your sister has really found something special that she willingly wants for her life and it is good then it is not yours to decide for her either.
No, I never try to make anyone think differently from what they wish. It's the case with her too. She likes it, I suppose. Just that thinking completely different than her, I find it harmful. My mother believes in God but not in an obsessive way. And it's somehow normal...But when you base your life on God's rules and teaching it's when I see it harmful.

All in all , the reason why I don't understand why the message is not for all of us to understand and feel closure.
Honestly saying, I feel discrimination.All of us have the right to feel closure with the message if it's important.
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: MissG on November 18, 2010, 10:46:09 AM
Quote from: "_Anna_"
when you base your life on God's rules and teaching it's when I see it harmful.

More than harmful is egoistic imo. By putting all the weight in God ones responsability is less.
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: suspicious mind on November 18, 2010, 10:47:48 AM
Quote from: "_Anna_"
Quote from: "suspicious mind"


feel like i need to add something. just in case the situation with your sister is not exactly as you percieve it to be and your sister has really found something special that she willingly wants for her life and it is good then it is not yours to decide for her either.
No, I never try to make anyone think differently from what they wish. It's the case with her too. She likes it, I suppose. Just that thinking completely different than her, I find it harmful. My mother believes in God but not in an obsessive way. And it's somehow normal...But when you base your life on God's rules and teaching it's when I see it harmful.

All in all , the reason why I don't understand why the message is not for all of us to understand and feel closure.
Honestly saying, I feel discrimination.All of us have the right to feel closure with the message if it's important.

can i ask you did you read ts post? if so what did you take away from it . if it was a story that wasn't from the bible what would you take away from it?
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: _Anna_ on November 18, 2010, 10:51:27 AM
Yes, I read it.

mmmm.....

As far as I understood this guy, Job, was put to a test to see if he has faith in God, even if he was put through suffering. Then I understood that some people came to him telling him a version of something that happened, and every version was different. If i understood it wrong, it's hard for me with the old English.

So yeah, that's what I understood mainly. That all the people lied. And that Job's faith was put to test. And that in the end he didn't blame God for his sufferings.
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: cassi on November 18, 2010, 10:55:15 AM
Quote from: "MJonmind"
Emeraldcity, I agree on the connection between Job's boils and MJ's skin condition.

My thoughts: there are only two places in the Bible that the phrase 'Sons of God' are used, this place in Job 1:6 and also twice in Genesis 6:1-8. Some Bible scholars have thought they were sons of Seth, but I disagree, I believe they were aliens very similar to humans but from outside of earth. They were not angels because the Bible consistently uses other terminology for angelic beings. (I have more controversial beliefs about these beings which I've mentioned elsewhere.)

 
Quote
1And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

 2That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

 3And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

 4There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

 5And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

 6And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

 7And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

 8But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

Very interesting about your analysis about the Sons of God, i agree with you, and i must say that these "aliens" are actually fallen angels.  The ones that were cast out with satan when he rebelled.  I believe this passage is redirected because just like job, michaels faith was tested, but he never stopped loving, and he never stopped believing in God.  After it was all over job was blessed in folds, whatever was taken was given back, and more. I think michael will be blessed the same way for being faithful, and for never giving up on love.
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: navibl on November 18, 2010, 11:00:06 AM
Quote from: "Tarja"
I feel like everything has drifted away from Michael and it all became a religious thing, with almost daily redirects to the Bible. And because people want to get to the bottom of it all, they read it today, read it tomorrow and they'll end up without even noticing thet they've read the whole Bible. people start to develop the situation exposed in these quotes and almost don't notice how far away from the subject they go. The subject is MICHAEL and the main important thing.  Not the Bible, nor Satan nor God. And the answer in the end is what? Nothing. Just the analysis of another Bible quote.

It's everyone's decision if they want to read the Bible or not and forcing people into it won't lead to anything. It all became all about religion and nothing about Michael. I don't say the Bible is good or bad, I just don't read either believe in it. Is that if those who don't read or believe the Bible have no rights to have normal answers? I don't find any answer in those quotes and either I find any connections.


The Bible references are  DIRECTLY relating to Michael Joe Jackson!! And what he has and is doing.  Anyone who truly has studied and understands him, knows that he studies his bible everyday.  The bible is not a book of impressive fairytale stories.  If so, it would not transcend time.  It is the oldest history book on the face of the earth.  But the history it conveys is full of prophesy for today.  No I am NOT orthodox in any of my thinking; I simply take the bible for face value, period. Eveyone like to put lables on things.

If you listen to Michael and understand the messages in ALL his music, you will understand that he believes in the end of the age as we know it.  His having left the public eye has reason on so many levels.  What is being done here is one of them.  Michael said God gave him the music RIGHT???  Well if you can understand the messages in his lyrics you will see that he believes in bible prophesy.  He has pointed to it all along.  So the bible is in fact very relevant in what is talking place in Michael’s life right now.  And is the message that he is trying his best to turn Mans attention to.
No Michael never stood in a church and preached, but he DID teach by the way he lives his life!!!  What does one think LOVE is?  To truly understand the meaning of love and to exercise LOVE you have to understand WHO IS LOVE.  Love is not an action word, it a noun, a state of exsistance.  When you live in LOVE you produce the fruit of LOVE by your actions.  This is spoken of throughout the bible.

I really dislike the word Hoax because it represents trying to fool someone.  Michael did none of this for purposes of fooling people.  Michael did this to save his life and hopefully millions along with him. However Michael is not religious he is in fact VERY spiritual.  He is indeed a Christian.  People confuse Christianity with religion.  Religion is situational, Christianity is relational.  They should never be confused one with the other.  Christianity is having a direct relationship with the creator of the universe, to be like Christ just as Michael said he wanted to be, something that all religions do not provide.

So when directing to the bible we are in direct line with Michael’s heart and his purpose and what he is doing to expose the enemy SATAN.  Who do you suppose wanted Michael dead?  Not just someone who was bored and had nothing to do, but SATAN because Michael refused to give in to him.  I really hate to say this but ones lack of belief does not change what was , is and is to come.  The only problem with unbelief, is that one is caught totally unaware of what is taking place in front their eyes.

It is like standing on a train track staring dead ahead at a train coming at you and saying I don’t believe in trains.  It doesn’t change the fact that in a matter of seconds you will be wiped out by the thing!! So for unbelievers I would say, think of it as someone offering you the winning numbers to the lottery for free.  You can’t be sure they are the right numbers but wouldn’t you rather take them with the chance they are wrong than not take them and they be right??  What harm is taking them done to you either way.  Eternal life with our loving heavenly father and all that he has to give us, mainly his LOVE seems like a very good prize to me!!

Unfortunately man has taken God’s direct word. “the bible” and has given it so many interpretations  no one knows what in fact to believe anymore. So some chose not to believe anything.  When in doubt ignore!  It is all very plain and laid out for us very directly.  There is Good, who is Good?  There is evil, who is evil?  Those who believe in nothing by default  are drawn into evil because in the absence of no thought, Satan has a place to play, because he does  roam the earth seeking  whom he may devour regardless of belief in him or not.

What do you suppose Michael meant when he said we have four years to get it right or else it is irreversible the damage we have done.  Do you really think that Michael was saying we can correct the damage that has been done to the planet over decades in four years???  Let those who hath ears hear!  

IT REALLY IS ALL FOR LOVE!!!!  And I love each and every one of you regardless of what you believe!! We are all God’s children regardless of belief in him or not!!
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: suspicious mind on November 18, 2010, 11:04:18 AM
Quote from: "_Anna_"
Yes, I read it.

mmmm.....

As far as I understood this guy, Job, was put to a test to see if he has faith in God, even if he was put through suffering. Then I understood that some people came to him telling him a version of something that happened, and every version was different. If i understood it wrong, it's hard for me with the old English.

So yeah, that's what I understood mainly. That all the people lied. And that Job's faith was put to test. And that in the end he didn't blame God for his sufferings.

this is all i see that maybe you misunderstood . the people who came to him were basically telling him of all that was happening to his stuff. so noone lied. other than that  i think you see pretty much what it is. now how does it relate to michael for you?
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: Sarahli on November 18, 2010, 12:03:15 PM
Quote from: "Tarja"
Quote from: "Sarahli"
Why would it change? The Bible quoted by TS or Michael is still the same... the meaning does not change, the words are still the same. How can the intention be different? TS is only re-directing without analyzing or telling people what to think. When I read these verses I've been touched by their content, by the message and it is not TS who has written it. TS is just a messenger.

No, you don't understand me. First, you didn't underline the sentence well, so this means to read between the lines.- which is not good.  The whole sentence would have been if it was Michael himself redirecting to Bible quotes I would peacefully read them[/b] because I know he is a good man and his intentions are not bad or to develop a mind control - from this, I explain it again. If it were Michael showing us quotes from the Bible I wouldn't think they might be probably with bad intention. Why? Because I can look into Michael's eyes, I can see it in his eyes because he is a tangible person. It's totally another thing if we regard TS. I can't look into his eyes. The eyes are the window to your soul and this can't be ingnored and considered unimportant. Even one of FBI's techinques to spot a liar is the eye to eye alaysis.  

If it were Michael giving these quotes from the Bible I wouldn't regard the possibility of a mindcontrol for objective reasons- he never did that no matter his religious beliefs. This doesn't happen with TS in my case. It's a feeling that I have since very long. Haven't you heard about mindcontrol through religious procedures? i did and also witnessed in my life and this can go far away if you don't have a strong mind. This is what I don't like about this. I don't know TS, never seen his face, never looked into his eyes so I have the right too REGARD the possibility he might not have actually only good intentions with all this. It is my right to my opinion. I hope now you got what I wanted to say with all this.

I know that the path through hell is paved with good intentions

I am not reading between the lines it is very clear. I understand that you rely on the messenger (Michael) and not on the message (the Bible). Or if you prefer, the Bible quoted by Michael is ok because you 'know' Michael but not from TS because you don't know him. Am I right?

Quote
Haven't you heard about mindcontrol through religious procedures? i did and also witnessed in my life and this can go far away if you don't have a strong mind.

That is why it is absolutely necessary to think for ourselves and it implies that you put your interest/focus on the message and its meaning and not on the messenger. If we rely blindly on people because they have managed to have our (blind?) trust we are more likely to be mind-controlled. In general those who mindcontrol people in religious areas interpret the scriptures for their benefit and in general people believe them without questionning because of their so called authority and because they actually don't study themselves the scriptures. Here TS is not explaining the scriptures we, have to do it ourselves. So it is not mind control.

Tarja I really don't understand your need to see in TS' eyes to accept the Bible being quoted or not. As I have said what will it change to the message? The Bible is like it is, Michael or TS quoting will not change that.

If you're not religious maybe just interpret it in regards to the hoax. And here it means keep the faith no matter what is happening with all the confusion surrounding it.
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: _Anna_ on November 18, 2010, 12:29:10 PM
Quote from: "suspicious mind"
Quote from: "_Anna_"
Yes, I read it.

mmmm.....

As far as I understood this guy, Job, was put to a test to see if he has faith in God, even if he was put through suffering. Then I understood that some people came to him telling him a version of something that happened, and every version was different. If i understood it wrong, it's hard for me with the old English.

So yeah, that's what I understood mainly. That all the people lied. And that Job's faith was put to test. And that in the end he didn't blame God for his sufferings.

this is all i see that maybe you misunderstood . the people who came to him were basically telling him of all that was happening to his stuff. so noone lied. other than that  i think you see pretty much what it is. now how does it relate to michael for you?
Well, I think that TS answered to me when I said the other day that if God exists and manages the life then why did Michael have to pass through such suffering.I think it was related to that. To what happened to him and all the hell he's been through.

But then again, who knows if it was God's will? It's a Bible story ..... That's why for me it's hard to get at the bottom of these quotes.
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: _Anna_ on November 18, 2010, 12:44:03 PM
Quote
Sarahli wrote:
 I really don't understand your need to see in TS' eyes to accept the Bible being quoted or not. As I have said what will it change to the message? The Bible is like it is, Michael or TS quoting will not change that.
It happens to me too. For me the messenger is as important as the message. Because, if we take these Bible quotes, and let's supposedly say that the person who sends them has another purpose (let's say to cover a crime) it is done on a holy base, and apparently would mean no harm.

 So yes, for me too, the messenger is as important as the message. Not only in this case, I say in many cases, regardless TS or anyone.I just wanted to address the idea of the message and the messenger.
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: trublu on November 18, 2010, 12:48:12 PM
Anna, I think you said your feelings very well.

I do not feel forced to read TS's bible quotes as I know that nobody can force me to do anything. I do however feel that I would be maybe 'missing out' if I didn't read them, but most of the time, these bible quotes seem not to be actual information, but encouragement. I still believe in the hoax and bible quotes won't make me believe more than I do.

I think it's good that these quotes give encouragement to religious people.

If Michael himself is behind these redirects then it doesn't change anything for me. I will still carry on reading them, I am strong enough not to change my whole idea about religion system because of this. The fact is, there are many things I don't agree with that appear in the bible and I will never use it as a source of information or encouragement. Others disagree and that's fine. Makes no difference to me if it's TS, Michael Jackson or the pope, I won't be changing my mind about this.

This is not to say I think there is 'nothing' out there. I think there are things that we don't know about the afterlife etc. But I won't conform to any religion.

I hope not to have offended anyone as these are my honest thoughts and I have no problem with people who are religious. It's a free world as far as I'm concerned.
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: curls on November 18, 2010, 01:11:59 PM
Just want to mention that I think it's important not to confuse 'God' with 'religion'. The two are very different in my eyes.
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: bec on November 18, 2010, 01:27:57 PM
Oops.

Edited because I had a blonde moment lol.
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: trublu on November 18, 2010, 01:43:02 PM
Quote from: "curls"
Just want to mention that I think it's important not to confuse 'God' with 'religion'. The two are very different in my eyes.

You are totally right.

A lot of people don't believe in either (I for one).
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: Serenitys_Dream on November 18, 2010, 02:09:01 PM
Quote from: "navibl"
The Bible references are  DIRECTLY relating to Michael Joe Jackson!! And what he has and is doing.  Anyone who truly has studied and understands him, knows that he studies his bible everyday.  The bible is not a book of impressive fairytale stories.  If so, it would not transcend time.  It is the oldest history book on the face of the earth.  But the history it conveys is full of prophesy for today.  No I am NOT orthodox in any of my thinking; I simply take the bible for face value, period. Eveyone like to put lables on things.

If you listen to Michael and understand the messages in ALL his music, you will understand that he believes in the end of the age as we know it.  His having left the public eye has reason on so many levels.  What is being done here is one of them.  Michael said God gave him the music RIGHT???  Well if you can understand the messages in his lyrics you will see that he believes in bible prophesy.  He has pointed to it all along.  So the bible is in fact very relevant in what is talking place in Michael’s life right now.  And is the message that he is trying his best to turn Mans attention to.
No Michael never stood in a church and preached, but he DID teach by the way he lives his life!!!  What does one think LOVE is?  To truly understand the meaning of love and to exercise LOVE you have to understand WHO IS LOVE.  Love is not an action word, it a noun, a state of exsistance.  When you live in LOVE you produce the fruit of LOVE by your actions.  This is spoken of throughout the bible.

I really dislike the word Hoax because it represents trying to fool someone.  Michael did none of this for purposes of fooling people.  Michael did this to save his life and hopefully millions along with him. However Michael is not religious he is in fact VERY spiritual.  He is indeed a Christian.  People confuse Christianity with religion.  Religion is situational, Christianity is relational.  They should never be confused one with the other.  Christianity is having a direct relationship with the creator of the universe, to be like Christ just as Michael said he wanted to be, something that all religions do not provide.

So when directing to the bible we are in direct line with Michael’s heart and his purpose and what he is doing to expose the enemy SATAN.  Who do you suppose wanted Michael dead?  Not just someone who was bored and had nothing to do, but SATAN because Michael refused to give in to him.  I really hate to say this but ones lack of belief does not change what was , is and is to come.  The only problem with unbelief, is that one is caught totally unaware of what is taking place in front their eyes.

It is like standing on a train track staring dead ahead at a train coming at you and saying I don’t believe in trains.  It doesn’t change the fact that in a matter of seconds you will be wiped out by the thing!! So for unbelievers I would say, think of it as someone offering you the winning numbers to the lottery for free.  You can’t be sure they are the right numbers but wouldn’t you rather take them with the chance they are wrong than not take them and they be right??  What harm is taking them done to you either way.  Eternal life with our loving heavenly father and all that he has to give us, mainly his LOVE seems like a very good prize to me!!

Unfortunately man has taken God’s direct word. “the bible” and has given it so many interpretations  no one knows what in fact to believe anymore. So some chose not to believe anything.  When in doubt ignore!  It is all very plain and laid out for us very directly.  There is Good, who is Good?  There is evil, who is evil?  Those who believe in nothing by default  are drawn into evil because in the absence of no thought, Satan has a place to play, because he does  roam the earth seeking  whom he may devour regardless of belief in him or not.

What do you suppose Michael meant when he said we have four years to get it right or else it is irreversible the damage we have done.  Do you really think that Michael was saying we can correct the damage that has been done to the planet over decades in four years???  Let those who hath ears hear!  

IT REALLY IS ALL FOR LOVE!!!!  And I love each and every one of you regardless of what you believe!! We are all God’s children regardless of belief in him or not!!
Thank you navibl, your posts are very insightful and enlightening. I do believe in God, though I am not involved in an organized religion, I do consider myself "spiritual". I am glad that you are here to help with the bible interpretations as I haven't really read it before this adventure began. I agree with what you have written here wholeheartedly and thank you again for taking the time to try and show, those of us who have not been exposed to the the bible's content or are non-believers, a relevant meaning for these passages.
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: MissG on November 18, 2010, 02:23:49 PM
Quote from: "navibl"
Those who believe in nothing by default  are drawn into evil because in the absence of no thought, Satan has a place to play, because he does  roam the earth seeking  whom he may devour regardless of belief in him or not.

I strongly disagree with your quote above. I do not believe and I am not drawn into evil. I believe in human actions and care.

I do not believe in any of them. God/Satan goes hand in hand. "Good" vs "evil".
If I don´t believe in God how can I possible believe in Satan?  Makes no sense.

There is no such thing as Satan, is people with mental problems who creates hell on earth. Rewiring is essential, but from the core.

Quote
IT REALLY IS ALL FOR LOVE!!!!  And I love each and every one of you regardless of what you believe!! We are all God’s children regardless of belief in him or not!!

By reading your post, it looks to me that LOVE would mean to convert?  ;) nah!

People should love each other for the sake of it, not to win "heaven", not to be "safe" from evil or the end of the world. That´s pure conditioning and black mailing.

I love you because I chose to do so, not because a book or faith or a concept tells me to do so. That´s slavery.
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: trublu on November 18, 2010, 02:33:03 PM
Quote from: "navibl"
Those who believe in nothing by default  are drawn into evil because in the absence of no thought, Satan has a place to play, because he does  roam the earth seeking  whom he may devour regardless of belief in him or not.

When you believe in nothing what do you mean? Nothing as in God? I believe in evolution and nature. I am a kind person who tries my very best to help people. Am I drawn into Evil? I'm finding it difficult to understand maybe because of the language. If you could explain I would be very grateful. Thanks.
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: curls on November 18, 2010, 03:14:45 PM
Quote from: "navibl"
Those who believe in nothing by default  are drawn into evil because in the absence of no thought, Satan has a place to play, because he does  roam the earth seeking  whom he may devour regardless of belief in him or not.

Sorry, I'm going to disagree with you on this statement as well! If you believe in God and Satan as you have depicted, then surely Satan would be seeking out and trying to win over those that are most hateful and threatening to him, i.e. those that have faith in God. He's already got the 'unbelievers' on his side!

I personally don't necessarily believe what I have just written to be true. It just seems if you're going to believe in a real evil presence (i.e. Satan) who wants to steer people away from God, this is a more logical way of looking at his methods.
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: Tarja on November 18, 2010, 03:26:29 PM
Talking about what I said today: mindcontrol through  religious procedures. It's the proof that I was right. It is the typical way of  taking the things into people if they are aware their theories don't catch as many people as they want. I simply don't agree with the brainwashing the Bible still does on people and how people still guide themselves after it. And because TS in almost all his redirects gives quotes from the Bible it implies: read the Bible or stick out of this.

And I don't think Michael wants everyone to be numbed by the Bible and either I think he discriminates those who don't believe in it. Messages should be sent for everyone not just for a part of the comunity. Michael's message is unity and not discrimination. He never showed any sign of leading people into believing in the Bible or any other religious book, either he discredited those with different beliefs.

Such way of believing and such way of regarding the God fact takes away half of people's own personality. they are not able to think for themselves because God already said what is good and what is bad, what they should or shouldn't do. people become numb. This is the exact word in my opinion: numb

I want to understand everything regarding this hoax and I do not accept the theory: read the Bible or just stick out of it. It is not what Michael stands for, it is not in his nature. And the bad feeling that TS gives me because of this increases since 5-6 months ago
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: MJonmind on November 18, 2010, 03:37:08 PM
Tarja, I totally agree with your last post.

I know lots of you here are uncomfortable with all the Bible stuff, but you could always just skim it quickly. I mean, I don't go deep into legal, celebrity or medical stuff because it's hard for me, not having much background in it. I'm just thankful for those here who really understand that stuff. I really appreciate everyone's strong areas of knowledge in this forum. Michael's hoax has got something for everyone I feel. So I say just relax and enjoy the ride. Michael's not trying to convert anybody. 8-)  :D  :mrgreen: This is his adventure and we're just trying to play his game. :P  :D

I made a mistake in my earier post, that "Sons of God" were just in those 3 places, but it is also in Job 38:7. And they are not angels.

Quote
Job 38:1-11
 1Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,

 2Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?

 3Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.

 4Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

 5Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

 6Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

 7When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

 8Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?

 9When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,

 10And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors,

 11And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?

Quote
_Anna_
So yeah, that's what I understood mainly. That all the people lied. And that Job's faith was put to test. And that in the end he didn't blame God for his sufferings.
I believe you are taking the word blame as in negative which it is not. Rather it should be that he acknowledged God as the source of his troubles and gave God respect and praise that He knows best for the full picture. 2:10
Quote
What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.
When all these bad things befall Job, these 4 so-called friends come to try to comfort him, but they basically are trying to pin the blame on Job's sins that he might not be aware of, even if it is simply righteous attitude, saying that God wouldn't do bad things to a good person. God jumps into the conversation several times always talking about how Job knows nothing about what's going on in the vastness of the creation, the intricasies of the balance of nature, nor the grand plan of God for the ages. Nobody can tell God what He can or cannot do, nobody. God always takes full responsibility for what happened with Job, never once blaming Satan.
Then Job says 42:1
1Then Job answered the LORD, and said,
Quote
2I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee.
At the end all Job's family came to him in 42:11
Quote
comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him
We are all safe in God's hands, and He will do what He chooses, whether we know it, or resist it or not. On that basis, I'm happy just to go with the program.
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: MissG on November 18, 2010, 03:41:35 PM
Gilda said "put the blame on Mame" and the blame should be put on her.
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on November 18, 2010, 03:46:01 PM
:ugeek:
Regarding material possessions. How quickly they can be taken not only by God who gives and also takes it away but, by man himself.

What do we live for?
What reward do we want at the end of our lives when all is said and done and it is our final curtain call?


http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=AMP (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew%206:19-24&version=AMP)
Matthew 6:19-24 (Amplified Bible)

19 Do not gather and heap up and store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust and worm consume and destroy, and where thieves break through and steal.

20 But gather and heap up and store for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust nor worm consume and destroy, and where thieves do not break through and steal;

21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

22 The eye is the lamp of the body. So if your eye is sound, your entire body will be full of light.

23 But if your eye is unsound, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the very light in you [your conscience] is darkened, how dense is that darkness!

24 No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will stand by and be devoted to the one and despise and be against the other. You cannot serve God and mammon (deceitful riches, money, possessions, or whatever is trusted in).

This scripture below teaches us that for EVERYONE who keeps asking you will receive. For the people who don't want to consider the spiritual side even for them if they keep on asking eventually they will receive what it is they are seeking.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=AMP (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew%207:8&version=AMP)
Matthew 7:8 (Amplified Bible)

8 For everyone who keeps on asking receives; and he who keeps on seeking finds; and to him who keeps on knocking, [the door] will be opened.

Everyone is offered the opportunity to walk through the narrow gate.
It is ultimately your choice whether to accept the gift God is presenting to us.
It is never a force thing when it comes to God and his Love for his creations.


http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=AMP (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew%207:13-14&version=AMP)
Matthew 7:13-14 (Amplified Bible)

13 Enter through the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and spacious and broad is the way that leads away to destruction, and many are those who are entering through it.

14 But the gate is narrow (contracted by pressure) and the way is straitened and compressed that leads away to life, and few are those who find it.

God Loves his creations unconditionally. There isn't always gonna be a happy fuzzy feeling in life. There are consequences for our actions. Punishment isn't just in the form here on earth by man but, also punishment from God regarding how we choose to live our lifes. If we steal and we are caught man has a law that comes from God's word.

The punishment on earth from man is usually a fine of something. It could be jail sometimes, it is no different when it comes to us being punished or disciplined by God when we do wrong. He is our Father and as our Father he is right in punishing/disciplining us.

Does a human man and woman punish their children? Do you still love your child regardless of what the child has done? It is no different. In some cases it won't actually be God's direct hand in the punishment or trials that we must go through.

God will allow us to be punished by other sources. God will use the enemy to punish us, tempt us, to make our character/spirit stronger.
[youtube:1sszx387]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_0YyLOpP8o[/youtube:1sszx387]
Peace
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: Sarahli on November 18, 2010, 03:53:08 PM
Don't worry, the truth is destined to prevail and 2012 is coming ...
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: _Anna_ on November 18, 2010, 03:57:45 PM
I simply feel like we are in a cult or something and not in a supposed death hoax. The end of the world is coming.... No mortal knows that. Just because it's printed in black ink doesn't make it the gospel, being it the Bible.

Here it's exactly what Gema was saying, it's slavery. Is THIS what this situation is about?
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: trublu on November 18, 2010, 03:58:57 PM
Quote from: "Sarahli"
Don't worry, the truth is destined to prevail and 2012 is coming ...

That is a double-edged statement if ever I heard one! lol
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: OneLove on November 18, 2010, 04:00:37 PM
Quote from: "_Anna_"
I simply feel like we are in a cult or something and not in a supposed death hoax. The end of the world is coming.... No mortal knows that. Just because it's printed in black ink doesn't make it the gospel, being it the Bible.

Here it's exactly what Gema was saying, it's slavery. Is THIS what this situation is about?

Don't worry Anna, don't let it take over your life. Fear not what can't control you.
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: Sarahli on November 18, 2010, 04:01:12 PM
Quote from: "trublu"
Quote from: "Sarahli"
Don't worry, the truth is destined to prevail and 2012 is coming ...

That is a double-edged statement if ever I heard one! lol

 :mrgreen:
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: Sarahli on November 18, 2010, 04:21:18 PM
Quote from: "_Anna_"
I simply feel like we are in a cult or something and not in a supposed death hoax. The end of the world is coming.... No mortal knows that. Just because it's printed in black ink doesn't make it the gospel, being it the Bible.

Here it's exactly what Gema was saying, it's slavery. Is THIS what this situation is about?

A cult? This is still a death hoax investigation site and more precisely a Michael Jackson death hoax investigation. TS has quoted the Bible since the beginning or at least already very early. Why is it that it has become a problem now?
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: _Anna_ on November 18, 2010, 04:33:44 PM
That's the problem (for me)- that it's not now, it's always been, since the beginning, and probably the reason why some people can't get to his message. It feels like it's all about the Bible, end of the world-which no one knows either IF it will come or when it will come, and constant creating fear by feeding this is blackmailing, because no one actually knows a thing about it. No one.

If all this has to be understood by the large public,in order to be put in practice, then why is it not made for everyone to receive it? Doesn't it have to open people's eyes and help find the right meaning in order to help Michael?
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: MissG on November 18, 2010, 04:40:38 PM
The end of the world will come when Germany stops lending money to countries in the world  :lol:

Sorry, I needed to step  ;)

2012 is coming, and 2013 and 2014 and 2015....hopefully by then, all the continents can leave in peace and tolerance and love each other.

I fear war and unfortunatelly "holly wars" have been known since always.

Tolerance between religions and beliefs would be the best imo. Would that day come when we love each other and respect each other?
(http://http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSK9hTpsGADAPcqi0XU-Qz72dDsWb3cRCxebHI9Ylok17HLdZG0)
(http://http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTj5x5KZSPqNkmMAIiJyUDDMUe1PhSIvIaH8P8d1AUuxAWQOYll_w)
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: Sarahli on November 18, 2010, 04:44:22 PM
Quote from: "Im_convincedmjalive"
:ugeek:
Regarding material possessions. How quickly they can be taken not only by God who gives and also takes it away but, by man himself.

What do we live for?
What reward do we want at the end of our lives when all is said and done and it is our final curtain call?


http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=AMP (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew%206:19-24&version=AMP)
Matthew 6:19-24 (Amplified Bible)

19 Do not gather and heap up and store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust and worm consume and destroy, and where thieves break through and steal.

20 But gather and heap up and store for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust nor worm consume and destroy, and where thieves do not break through and steal;

21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

22 The eye is the lamp of the body. So if your eye is sound, your entire body will be full of light.

23 But if your eye is unsound, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the very light in you [your conscience] is darkened, how dense is that darkness!

24 No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will stand by and be devoted to the one and despise and be against the other. You cannot serve God and mammon (deceitful riches, money, possessions, or whatever is trusted in).

This scripture below teaches us that for EVERYONE who keeps asking you will receive. For the people who don't want to consider the spiritual side even for them if they keep on asking eventually they will receive what it is they are seeking.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=AMP (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew%207:8&version=AMP)
Matthew 7:8 (Amplified Bible)

8 For everyone who keeps on asking receives; and he who keeps on seeking finds; and to him who keeps on knocking, [the door] will be opened.

Everyone is offered the opportunity to walk through the narrow gate.
It is ultimately your choice whether to accept the gift God is presenting to us.
It is never a force thing when it comes to God and his Love for his creations.


http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=AMP (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew%207:13-14&version=AMP)
Matthew 7:13-14 (Amplified Bible)

13 Enter through the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and spacious and broad is the way that leads away to destruction, and many are those who are entering through it.

14 But the gate is narrow (contracted by pressure) and the way is straitened and compressed that leads away to life, and few are those who find it.

God Loves his creations unconditionally. There isn't always gonna be a happy fuzzy feeling in life. There are consequences for our actions. Punishment isn't just in the form here on earth by man but, also punishment from God regarding how we choose to live our lifes. If we steal and we are caught man has a law that comes from God's word.

The punishment on earth from man is usually a fine of something. It could be jail sometimes, it is no different when it comes to us being punished or disciplined by God when we do wrong. He is our Father and as our Father he is right in punishing/disciplining us.

Does a human man and woman punish their children? Do you still love your child regardless of what the child has done? It is no different. In some cases it won't actually be God's direct hand in the punishment or trials that we must go through.

God will allow us to be punished by other sources. God will use the enemy to punish us, tempt us, to make our character/spirit stronger.
[youtube:facle7z0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_0YyLOpP8o[/youtube:facle7z0]
Peace

I agree with you.

Quote
What do we live for?
What reward do we want at the end of our lives when all is said and done and it is our final curtain call?

We are here for a test and some people will choose this earthly life and not the afterlife despite the warnings God sends. This is as simple as that. You don't believe in God and follow His law? Fine. There are very good people amongst them, this is not the point... the point is the choices we make spiritually talking and our consequent responsibility. This is our only chance before the curtain falls.
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: curls on November 18, 2010, 04:45:41 PM
Quote from: "Tarja"
Talking about what I said today: mindcontrol through  religious procedures. It's the proof that I was right. It is the typical way of  taking the things into people if they are aware their theories don't catch as many people as they want. I simply don't agree with the brainwashing the Bible still does on people and how people still guide themselves after it. And because TS in almost all his redirects gives quotes from the Bible it implies: read the Bible or stick out of this.

And I don't think Michael wants everyone to be numbed by the Bible and either I think he discriminates those who don't believe in it. Messages should be sent for everyone not just for a part of the comunity. Michael's message is unity and not discrimination. He never showed any sign of leading people into believing in the Bible or any other religious book, either he discredited those with different beliefs.

Such way of believing and such way of regarding the God fact takes away half of people's own personality. they are not able to think for themselves because God already said what is good and what is bad, what they should or shouldn't do. people become numb. This is the exact word in my opinion: numb

I want to understand everything regarding this hoax and I do not accept the theory: read the Bible or just stick out of it. It is not what Michael stands for, it is not in his nature. And the bad feeling that TS gives me because of this increases since 5-6 months ago

At the risk of being heavily criticised for this, I'd like to say to you and Anna that your posts today about your discomfort around religious discussions, speak more about yourselves than about TS or MJ or God or the Bible. BlackJack wrote an excellent piece today on the Re-education thread about how we are responsible for our own responses to things. You cannot blame TS if you find his re-directs uncomfortable.

You've spoken about your worries for your sister and religious brainwashing, so I can fully understand why you are unsettled. My only question to you both is why are you even reading threads with bible quotes and religious themes? If you are genuinely worried, why are you not keeping away from these kind of threads, no one is forcing you to read, even less so to believe. And nowhere has anyone said 'read the bible or just stick out of it'.

You both have stated many times that you think for yourselves and have your own opinions, so I would urge you to follow that through and either just read and dismiss or, if you are seriously worried about being drawn into something you don't want to be a part of, just stick to the many other topics being discussed around the forum. (And there are loads, even though you seem not to have that impression) You seriously don't have to read everything that gets posted on every thread, every day to be a fully paid up member of the hoax!

Lighten up, take some time away if it's getting too heavy for you. Please, I'm not saying these things to criticise either of you but I'm concerned as your anxiety is not healthy.
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: suspicious mind on November 18, 2010, 04:55:20 PM
Quote from: "navibl"
Quote from: "Tarja"
I feel like everything has drifted away from Michael and it all became a religious thing, with almost daily redirects to the Bible. And because people want to get to the bottom of it all, they read it today, read it tomorrow and they'll end up without even noticing thet they've read the whole Bible. people start to develop the situation exposed in these quotes and almost don't notice how far away from the subject they go. The subject is MICHAEL and the main important thing.  Not the Bible, nor Satan nor God. And the answer in the end is what? Nothing. Just the analysis of another Bible quote.

It's everyone's decision if they want to read the Bible or not and forcing people into it won't lead to anything. It all became all about religion and nothing about Michael. I don't say the Bible is good or bad, I just don't read either believe in it. Is that if those who don't read or believe the Bible have no rights to have normal answers? I don't find any answer in those quotes and either I find any connections.


The Bible references are  DIRECTLY relating to Michael Joe Jackson!! And what he has and is doing.  Anyone who truly has studied and understands him, knows that he studies his bible everyday.  The bible is not a book of impressive fairytale stories.  If so, it would not transcend time.  It is the oldest history book on the face of the earth.  But the history it conveys is full of prophesy for today.  No I am NOT orthodox in any of my thinking; I simply take the bible for face value, period. Eveyone like to put lables on things.

If you listen to Michael and understand the messages in ALL his music, you will understand that he believes in the end of the age as we know it.  His having left the public eye has reason on so many levels.  What is being done here is one of them.  Michael said God gave him the music RIGHT???  Well if you can understand the messages in his lyrics you will see that he believes in bible prophesy.  He has pointed to it all along.  So the bible is in fact very relevant in what is talking place in Michael’s life right now.  And is the message that he is trying his best to turn Mans attention to.
No Michael never stood in a church and preached, but he DID teach by the way he lives his life!!!  What does one think LOVE is?  To truly understand the meaning of love and to exercise LOVE you have to understand WHO IS LOVE.  Love is not an action word, it a noun, a state of exsistance.  When you live in LOVE you produce the fruit of LOVE by your actions.  This is spoken of throughout the bible.

I really dislike the word Hoax because it represents trying to fool someone.  Michael did none of this for purposes of fooling people.  Michael did this to save his life and hopefully millions along with him. However Michael is not religious he is in fact VERY spiritual.  He is indeed a Christian.  People confuse Christianity with religion.  Religion is situational, Christianity is relational.  They should never be confused one with the other.  Christianity is having a direct relationship with the creator of the universe, to be like Christ just as Michael said he wanted to be, something that all religions do not provide.

So when directing to the bible we are in direct line with Michael’s heart and his purpose and what he is doing to expose the enemy SATAN.  Who do you suppose wanted Michael dead?  Not just someone who was bored and had nothing to do, but SATAN because Michael refused to give in to him.  I really hate to say this but ones lack of belief does not change what was , is and is to come.  The only problem with unbelief, is that one is caught totally unaware of what is taking place in front their eyes.

It is like standing on a train track staring dead ahead at a train coming at you and saying I don’t believe in trains.  It doesn’t change the fact that in a matter of seconds you will be wiped out by the thing!! So for unbelievers I would say, think of it as someone offering you the winning numbers to the lottery for free.  You can’t be sure they are the right numbers but wouldn’t you rather take them with the chance they are wrong than not take them and they be right??  What harm is taking them done to you either way.  Eternal life with our loving heavenly father and all that he has to give us, mainly his LOVE seems like a very good prize to me!!

Unfortunately man has taken God’s direct word. “the bible” and has given it so many interpretations  no one knows what in fact to believe anymore. So some chose not to believe anything.  When in doubt ignore!  It is all very plain and laid out for us very directly.  There is Good, who is Good?  There is evil, who is evil?  Those who believe in nothing by default  are drawn into evil because in the absence of no thought, Satan has a place to play, because he does  roam the earth seeking  whom he may devour regardless of belief in him or not.

What do you suppose Michael meant when he said we have four years to get it right or else it is irreversible the damage we have done.  Do you really think that Michael was saying we can correct the damage that has been done to the planet over decades in four years???  Let those who hath ears hear!  

IT REALLY IS ALL FOR LOVE!!!!  And I love each and every one of you regardless of what you believe!! We are all God’s children regardless of belief in him or not!!


i don't know how i missed this post first time around but thank you that was awesome
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: MJonmind on November 18, 2010, 04:57:03 PM
Quote from: "Gema"
Gilda said "put the blame on Mame" and the blame should be put on her.
Gema, you are so wise and timely! :lol:

_Anna_
Since the beginning for me, on June 25, 2009, I tried so hard, spending practically every waking hour trying to get to know this man Michael Jackson, whom sadly, I had hardly given a thought prior to that. I listened to everything, read everything, trying to have an open mind. At first some things turned me off, but eventually I came to love everything about him. The good, bad and ugly. Now I don't really see any of it as bad or ugly. I had to give it time, let it simmer. Whatever is still future in this hoax, I have decided to love, trust and believe him. I don't know everything and neither do any of you. I try to have an open mind. I also have a background which I came from, that mingles with my trying to understand this whole MJ thing. Michael grew up in a belief system, and knows we all did. It's about uniting, coming together to harmonize. This forum is about giving, and receiving our knowledge and thoughts. I have broadened my mind so incredibly much in this amazing 'adventure' as MJ put it. All of our thoughts, doubts and opinions are welcome here, as long as they are respectful to others. That's why I love this place.
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: _Anna_ on November 18, 2010, 05:01:13 PM
@curls
I will answer to you about why I read in TIAI thread, but i already said- I come and read because I just want to find answers I don't have, like anyone else here. That's why, and as everyone else I have the right to understand the situation and if I go and read in the thread it's because of this. But everytime I see such redirects it simply makes me feel like I am not fit to be part of it. Everyone is in searching of answers, understanding of the situation in order to get to the bottom of the things, and probably at this point in time, after 17 months, I hung myself on whatever I can.

It is very hard because I feel like either I get into this or I am out, and the hoax should be for everyone to get closure. You know what I mean? I want to read, I do this all the time.But why does it have to come in a shape that some of us don't get into? doesn't it have to be for everyone?
It's not anxiety, just feeling out of the bucket. There are people who dismiss without willing to understand, and there are people (like I am ) who read, willing to help and understand this all, but not getting closure.
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: Sarahli on November 18, 2010, 05:09:54 PM
Quote from: "_Anna_"
@curls
I will answer to you about why I read in TIAI thread, but i already said- I come and read because I just want to find answers I don't have, like anyone else here. That's why, and as everyone else I have the right to understand the situation and if I go and read in the thread it's because of this. But everytime I see such redirects it simply makes me feel like I am not fit to be part of it. Everyone is in searching of answers, understanding of the situation in order to get to the bottom of the things, and probably at this point in time, after 17 months, I hung myself on whatever I can.

It is very hard because I feel like either I get into this or I am out, and the hoax should be for everyone to get closure. You know what I mean? I want to read, I do this all the time.But why does it have to come in a shape that some of us don't get into? doesn't it have to be for everyone?
It's not anxiety, just feeling out of the bucket. There are people who dismiss without willing to understand, and there are people (like I am ) who read, willing to help and understand this all, but not getting closure.

And what if the Bible is also Michael's message?
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: Tarja on November 18, 2010, 05:11:51 PM
It's nothing about anxiety or anything that has to do with that. It's just, in my case,  a kind of revolt. Yes, revolt. And I just don't understand why everything about what TS redirects is  related to bible and people still don't ask themselves if this is good or bad.

Second, I am reading TS' posts since the very beginning and just because some of his explanations found logic in my mind I want to keep analyzing him and have my eyes and ears opened for everything. So, I tried to hold up my opinion about this and then I though that I do have the right to say what I think, no matter if the whole community disagrees with me. If I would have considered TS a deluded crazy person I would have ceased to read any of his posts long ago. My question is : Are TS' intentions good or bad? What if this is just a brainwash? What happened since the beninning of this summer or around so, is that I found out that he drifted it all slowly more and more into the religious part. I, who I am not a religious person and I don't think that the rest of 99% of this community is entitled to the Bible or God, am waiting day by day for a logic redirect, a normal redirect that has nothing to do with any religious book. You know? A help, a hand in all this mess and confusion. And all I  got from his latest redirects was smoke in my head, not being able at least to decode the Bible quotes due to their structure. I feel discriminated and maybe there are a lot who are not into this and still want to hear a logic redirect of TS but they just prefer to shut up and let things be. Unfortunately I am the opposite type of person and when I have something to say I take the risk and I am aware of what could happen if I state my opinion. - Like now. I said what I thought and that I consider this to have gone on the religious path too much and that this has been driven day by day far away from reality and into the religion and of course that I got many "don't come here", "stop reading the thread", "you don't believe in god then you are entitled to evil" and ect. Maybe it's hard to understand but I am opened to hear absolutelly everything regarding the situation we are in and this doesn't mean I have to shut up because maybe 90% of the people won't agree with me. I always had in mind all the possibilities and read everything so far and I will do so from now on as well.

It's not my intention to make anyone loose faith in God, I'll never do that. Everyone is free to believe what they want but as I said, because of the fact that I couldn't so far find anybody to explain some things that TS explained (and there are a few not the whole thing he wrote here) I am still interested to see where is he heading to, what is his purpose after all this time, if he will ever give a logic redirect that could clear a bit the fog we are into at this point in time. And because of this, I am put everyday against the fact that I have to read another and another quote from the Bible and it just wakes up the justice and the equality sense I have in myself. His messages became written only for those who support the Bible and that's all. The rest can go to hell?
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: _Anna_ on November 18, 2010, 05:14:45 PM
Quote from: "Sarahli"
Quote from: "_Anna_"
@curls
I will answer to you about why I read in TIAI thread, but i already said- I come and read because I just want to find answers I don't have, like anyone else here. That's why, and as everyone else I have the right to understand the situation and if I go and read in the thread it's because of this. But everytime I see such redirects it simply makes me feel like I am not fit to be part of it. Everyone is in searching of answers, understanding of the situation in order to get to the bottom of the things, and probably at this point in time, after 17 months, I hung myself on whatever I can.

It is very hard because I feel like either I get into this or I am out, and the hoax should be for everyone to get closure. You know what I mean? I want to read, I do this all the time.But why does it have to come in a shape that some of us don't get into? doesn't it have to be for everyone?
It's not anxiety, just feeling out of the bucket. There are people who dismiss without willing to understand, and there are people (like I am ) who read, willing to help and understand this all, but not getting closure.

And what if the Bible is also Michael's message?
It could be, I don't know, only he knows.. But now, do you think Michael would try to express himself through the Bible? why would he try to push his beliefs on people?
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: melody on November 18, 2010, 05:30:04 PM
I think this is being blown way out of proportion.

Anna asked a question (well, several):

Quote from: "_Anna_"
I will put it this way: if God can make things happen and is managing life's situations, then why did Michael have to suffer like that? Why did he have to be humiliated, ridiculed and have his heart thrown in the dirt when he is innocent? Since the very beginning, why did he have to suffer like that, what did he ever do wrong to have God put such weight on his shoulders?

Admittedly, they may have been rhetorical ones but the point is that TS answered her query by redirecting to Job, an upright and righteous man who has done nothing wrong yet went through humiliation and ridicule—all according to "God's" plan. "God" allowed "Satan" to bring all sorts of calamities, suffering, and adversity into his life to test his character and faith. From what I've read, "God" deliberately allows for adversity  in order to shape his believers into the people he wants/needs them to be.

I'm not a religious person either, but I have read the literature (still in the process of finishing it actually). Reading a book doesn't automatically make you an adherent of any religion. Becoming part of a religion is a conscious choice.  If you reassure yourself why you believe (or don't believe) what you do, I don't see how reading the bible (or TS' redirects) could unwillingly brainwash you.

Mind-control is a legitimate and understandable concern. The more I read your posts, however, the more I see a classic case of prejudice. To use you as an example Anna, you're allowing an individual's interpretation of a book (and how they applied that interpretation) to define your opinion of the book, a book that you have no intention of personally acquainting yourself with first-hand, yet you still have formulated an opinion about it without getting to know it. This same prejudice, to this day, has people believing that Michael is a pedophile. They have no intention of acquainting themselves with Michael's true character nor, more importantly, what actually happened in 1993 and 2005. They flat out refuse to get to know Michael or familiarize themselves with the settlement in 1993 and the 2005 court case, and instead rely on the media's interpretation of what happened, the media's interpretation of Michael.

And I say all this, not to imply that you need to read the bible, but to say that you shouldn't let your personal prejudices hinder you from seeing what's actually being said; don't let the source of the information throw you off and more importantly don't let anyone elses' interpretations (but your own) define your reality.

Quote from: "_Anna_"
Quote from: "Sarahli"
And what if the Bible is also Michael's message?
It could be, I don't know, only he knows.. But now, do you think Michael would try to express himself through the Bible? why would he try to push his beliefs on people?

Well, to put myself in Michael's shoes, he seems to have a true and genuine concern for people; if he wholeheartedly believed the bible, why wouldn't he warn those he loved?
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on November 18, 2010, 06:04:51 PM
:geek:
Dear _Anna_ and Tarja,

In my first post I was pointing out that you do have freedom of choice. You do have the right like all of us to choose what to believe and what to focus on. There is no written rule that states you and your sister can't be included in this "hoax" adventure just because you don't believe in the testimonies written in the Bible.

I am a person who many would not consider a righteous person. I have not lived my life without sin. I have been to the bottom and for me the bottom was hell. There is only one place to go once you hit rock bottom and that is to start climbing back up.

We all fall and stumble. Some of us choose to hold onto a higher power and we have choosen to call our higher power God. We also have choosen to take from the Bible stories/testimonies that will help us to see that we aren't the only ones who had to go through shit storms in our lives. The stories/testimonies give some of us comfort and a view into how the outcome can be depending on how you choose to respond to the hell on earth.

There is no discrimination towards you or anyone else who doesn't believe in God or  God's word which is in my opinion the scriptures written.

As I said I am the least likely person many would think of that follows God's word. Rahab is a perfect example of who I am.

Jesus didn't call on the righteous, he called the sinners and the down and out.
Why? Because we are the testimony that God is all powerful and saves us from ourselves if we only allow him to be in our hearts and life.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=AMP (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%205:32&version=AMP)
Luke 5:32 (Amplified Bible)
32 I have not come to arouse and invite and call the righteous, but the erring ones (those not free from sin) to repentance to change their minds for the better and heartily to amend their ways, with abhorrence of their past sins].

I am posting my comment I made the day after I signed up on this forum. As you can see I was also reluctant to trust TS. It was only after I allowed myself to think outside my comfort level and expand my mind that I began to know it was ok to trust once in a while. Michael's life with all of his achievements and pitfalls is also a great testimony to God's graciousness and favor to those who are faithful. Faith can not be seen or touched by our senses. It is a feeling one has that something is in control of our lives.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=AMP (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews%2011:1&version=AMP)
Hebrews 11:1 (Amplified Bible)
Hebrews 11
1 NOW FAITH is the assurance (the confirmation, the title deed) of the things [we] hope for, being the proof of things [we] do not see and the conviction of their reality [faith perceiving as real fact what is not revealed to the senses].
Quote
Re: Recruiting Soldiers for Michael’s Army of L.O.V.E.
by Im_convincedmjalive » Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:41 am

Dear M.J./ T.S./ Study (the world):
 
In following your (MJ) lessons and outlines of revelations in process and order, I am going to try my best to put down and express each and every relevant lessons I have learned and why, how they relate to me and the world.

Note: I understand this section to be for the topic of army of L.O.V.E. and it will reflect on this subject with extra info.

Testimonies:

1: Testimonies are important as a teaching tool and to show relevance of the power in belief of a higher power in control of our lives. The power of having faith and trusting in something other than our own will and that a power greater than ourselves has the right plan for our lives if only we will listen.

It is no accident and or coincidence that you (MJ) were chosen by God to be a great teacher, messenger for the world to hear the very ” IMPORTANT” things of our time to be addressed. The influence that you possess due in part because of your status as “ The king of Pop” can and has/ will continue to move people in the right direction of learning.

In keeping with the theme of testimonies here is mine in a short version. I offer this to the world to be used as a lesson for anyone who reads this.

I have suffered many trials and tribulations at the hands of abusers. I now know that it wasn’t their fault but it was the evil spiritual influence on those who wronged me.

I was beaten by my father at a very young age and it continued up until around the age of 15. I was adopted <(personal issue and demon for me) at 3 weeks old and I have 2 younger sisters who are my adopted parents biological children but, obviously I don’t share that bond. I, being the oldest had to be made an example of by my father.

At the time I did not know the circumstances surrounding my father’s anger issues. I now know he was an alcoholic, and my parents marriage was falling apart. There were adultery affairs with other married people by both my dad and mom. That was a huge factor in why my father beat me. The fact that both my parents worked long hours and were not at home with us children also played a huge role in attitudes and upbringing.. Misunderstandings. The way my father was raised was reflected in action by how he punished me versus my sisters.

I grew up the “black sheep” of the family. To keep this simple I can’t go into every detail, that would take a novel to write.

My point in this testimony is:

The impact of my childhood has stayed with me for years. I had to go on a journey of “self awareness” to understand why I did what I did as an adult. So begins the first part of my “Awakening!”

On topic with the very important lessons I have learned from you MJ and your powerful statement of AIR.

Also due to time constraints I have to try to keep this as simple as possible but, also try to relate the experience to what I have learned so far from your “statement.”

Due to the nature of how important this is for the world and the relevance of time. I became more aware of the NWO, illuminati, mind control, elite, etc. at a very relevant time in history. Although I did not fully understand it at the time. Looking back on the date I now realize when and why I felt a urgent frenzy need to research and absorb as much information as possible starting on Jan. 18th 2010. MLK B-day. <Relevant! Which was long before I found this site and your revelations.

2: NWO:

I had been introduced to the subject of the NWO by a black man who was serving 70 years in prison back in 1998. He had sent me some copied information from a book about this subject. I read it and understood it but, I was not fully aware at the time of how important that information was. I do now! As with most people my life was a mess and full of personal demons that distracted me from fully absorbing the info.

3: Media influence/mind control:

Fast forward to 1993. Your (MJ) first accusations of child molestations. I am not the type of person who watched the news or paid much attention to what the media said about you and the issue. I was pregnant at that time with my daughter so I was distracted by that. I am now grateful for that due in part because I wasn’t influenced by said media to have a negative outlook upon you. I was aware of it but, did not believe the story being told or portrayed of you through the news. What a blessing for me to have been distracted by pregnancy to not fall victim of media mind control.

Media mind control/ influence:

Fast forward to 2005. Your second accusation. At this very important time in your life, I was again distracted by my own personal demons. Shortly after my 37 th b-day by roughly 3 days I had ruptured my lower colon. This caused my bowels to release a toxic poison into my system that was going to kill me for sure. Timing is everything. I felt a sharp pain but, brushed it off. After some convincing by my neighbor and the ill feeling I had I finally went to the ER. I was originally misdiagnosed by the ER dr. and was sent home. I have a time ticking bomb inside of me and I am unaware of it. I went through the next four days with poison filling my blood from the feces and was almost at death’s door when I could no longer take the pain.

On May 15th 2005 I finally drove myself back to the ER and was then properly diagnosed. I was told that I needed emergency life saving surgeries or I would die. I was told that if I had waited one more day I would not have lived. I was told of the procedures that needed to be done and why. I was under the influence of pain medication but, I understood the nature of this conversation. I had no choice but, to say yes to life and allow the surgeon to perform the operations. I was alone in the hospital.

All my family was out of town and I only had my faith in the Lord to save me. I prayed faithfully to the Lord to guide the surgeons hands to save me. I had to let go and trust in God. I knew that my time here wasn’t over. I had felt that for a long time that I hadn’t reached the point of being used for God’s divine purpose so I had to stay alive to figure out what God has in store for me.

I underwent the first exploratory surgery on May 15th 2005 and was kept sedated and on a respiratory machine in a medical coma for 2 days for the 2 necessary surgeries. I knew I was going to wake up with a colostomy bag and was fully prepared for that knowing it needed to be done to save my life. For those who don’t know what a colostomy bag is: it is a bag that is placed on the front of your abdomen to catch the shit coming out of your body because my colon was separated and brought up to come out to the front for necessary repair and healing.

The relevant part here is I had no more control. No control of my life or my bowels. I had to completely surrender. During my 2 week stay in the hospital I underwent one more surgery. So that is 3 total. This was also the time of your trial. 2005. Again for me, I was aware of it but, very distracted by my own health issues. I was heavily sedated by morphine drip and other medicines. I understand addiction from surgery to pain medication.

Following my 2 week stay and 3 surgeries I had to learn how to adjust for 7 ½ months living with a shit bag. I woke up every day and heavily sedated myself to proceed on with my life. I had no control over my bowel functions. I had to let the natural process happen.

Fast forward to Dec. 2005. I went in for my 4th surgery for repair and reversal of the colostomy. I am not 100% to this day but, I am alive. I had became addicted to prescription meds. for about 3 years. That is a very powerful demon to get rid of.

4: Your call to serve in the army of L.O.V.E.

My experience with my surgeries and the medical aspect of it has led me in a direction of wanting to do something in the health care field. Due to the timing and lack of time I have now narrowed it down to C.N.A. This is in part because of my experience with the nurses at the hospital and their valuable role they played.

Also now because of Obama’s true health care reform and not the fake one he portrays on the media I now know it is very important for people to be there to stop the depopulation that is in motion from this Obama administration.

I have learned of it and know that I fall into the category of the ones who will be first to go. I am a single mother, first strike. I do not contribute as of right now to the standard of society’s norms, strike 2. I have had medical issues in the past and could fall victim to the 5 year of medical attention needed and seen by Obama’s administration as necessary to get rid of me to save the health care costs.

I also am aware of his plan to get rid of the disabled people, retarded, elderly, or frail population. By the way not my language of choice but is how it is stated.


All very dear to my heart. I have a neighbor who is on SS disability. I have a retarded/ mentally and physically disabled uncle. I have a grandma who is in a Alzheimer’s facility. All very important to me!
All on the list to go if Obama’s health care plan passes.

In saying all that my pledge to your (MJ) call to serve in the army of love. I have started with the woman in the mirror and I now need to start on my journey to become a C.N.A. (fast track) as my way of infiltrating the medical issues at hand.

5: “Sweet home Alabama”

I was at first hesitant to trust fully in who was writing to the board. T.S. I now know who after ready that story. That sealed the deal for me.

I believe in the man who is singing to the world now. Not the guy on the jukebox.

I am going to end this now. Not finished with this at all. There is way more to say and way more to do.

God bless you MJ and love you more.  
My special glasses for seeing the truth are on!
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: angel on November 18, 2010, 08:56:44 PM
Thank you again, TS.  Your thoughtfulness in addressing this issue is appreciated.  This redirect illustrates the use of suffering in the divine plan as a means of perfecting character.  Michael is truly a man of character who values his relationship with God and the direction it gives him.  L.O.V.E.
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: navibl on November 19, 2010, 01:37:34 AM
Quote from: "Gema"
Quote from: "navibl"
Those who believe in nothing by default  are drawn into evil because in the absence of no thought, Satan has a place to play, because he does  roam the earth seeking  whom he may devour regardless of belief in him or not.

I strongly disagree with your quote above. I do not believe and I am not drawn into evil. I believe in human actions and care.

I do not believe in any of them. God/Satan goes hand in hand. "Good" vs "evil".
If I don´t believe in God how can I possible believe in Satan?  Makes no sense.

There is no such thing as Satan, is people with mental problems who creates hell on earth. Rewiring is essential, but from the core.

Quote
IT REALLY IS ALL FOR LOVE!!!!  And I love each and every one of you regardless of what you believe!! We are all God’s children regardless of belief in him or not!!

By reading your post, it looks to me that LOVE would mean to convert?  ;) nah!

People should love each other for the sake of it, not to win "heaven", not to be "safe" from evil or the end of the world. That´s pure conditioning and black mailing.

I love you because I chose to do so, not because a book or faith or a concept tells me to do so. That´s slavery.


hmmmm...OK so if there is not good or evil then there is no need for love either..what is love?  I could hate you and do just as well right?  or just simply ingnor the fact that you even exist, because  don't believe in you!!  Is there a judicidal system were you come from?  I hope not, because if you break the law/evil you will go to prison regardless of believeing in it or not.
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: bec on November 19, 2010, 01:50:11 AM
Quote from: "Tarja"
Talking about what I said today: mindcontrol through  religious procedures. It's the proof that I was right. It is the typical way of  taking the things into people if they are aware their theories don't catch as many people as they want. I simply don't agree with the brainwashing the Bible still does on people and how people still guide themselves after it. And because TS in almost all his redirects gives quotes from the Bible it implies: read the Bible or stick out of this.

And I don't think Michael wants everyone to be numbed by the Bible and either I think he discriminates those who don't believe in it. Messages should be sent for everyone not just for a part of the comunity. Michael's message is unity and not discrimination. He never showed any sign of leading people into believing in the Bible or any other religious book, either he discredited those with different beliefs.

Such way of believing and such way of regarding the God fact takes away half of people's own personality. they are not able to think for themselves because God already said what is good and what is bad, what they should or shouldn't do. people become numb. This is the exact word in my opinion: numb

I want to understand everything regarding this hoax and I do not accept the theory: read the Bible or just stick out of it. It is not what Michael stands for, it is not in his nature. And the bad feeling that TS gives me because of this increases since 5-6 months ago

I agree with you, Tarja.

But I don't necessarily take TS's redirects this way. This is MJ's hoax so if these verses mean something to him, and he is trying to express himself through them to us, then it doesn't matter whether I believe in the book or not. It's a sign, an encouragement, a clue, whatever, but I don't see it as a command or philosophy promotion.

I take it more like those poetry magnets. You put together words and phrases to make a poem. TS uses web pages the same way. Bible quotes are easy to isolate and are highly metaphorical. Might be less a religious message and more a faith based message that we are supposed to get from it.
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: bec on November 19, 2010, 02:06:14 AM
Quote from: "navibl"
Quote from: "Gema"
Quote from: "navibl"
Those who believe in nothing by default  are drawn into evil because in the absence of no thought, Satan has a place to play, because he does  roam the earth seeking  whom he may devour regardless of belief in him or not.

I strongly disagree with your quote above. I do not believe and I am not drawn into evil. I believe in human actions and care.

I do not believe in any of them. God/Satan goes hand in hand. "Good" vs "evil".
If I don´t believe in God how can I possible believe in Satan?  Makes no sense.

There is no such thing as Satan, is people with mental problems who creates hell on earth. Rewiring is essential, but from the core.

Quote
IT REALLY IS ALL FOR LOVE!!!!  And I love each and every one of you regardless of what you believe!! We are all God’s children regardless of belief in him or not!!

By reading your post, it looks to me that LOVE would mean to convert?  ;) nah!

People should love each other for the sake of it, not to win "heaven", not to be "safe" from evil or the end of the world. That´s pure conditioning and black mailing.

I love you because I chose to do so, not because a book or faith or a concept tells me to do so. That´s slavery.


hmmmm...OK so if there is not good or evil then there is no need for love either..what is love?  I could hate you and do just as well right?  or just simply ingnor the fact that you even exist, because  don't believe in you!!  Is there a judicidal system were you come from?  I hope not, because if you break the law/evil you will go to prison regardless of believeing in it or not.

No, it's not in your survival interest to hate anyone. It's a evolutionary success trait to be popular and have many friends. Well liked individuals that are accepted into a group will be able to share the resources obtained by the group instead of fending for themselves. The well liked and popular people are more likely to live longer, stay healthy, and have more babies thus giving birth to more people who are likely to be popular too.

Beyond that there is a moral code that has existed since mankind began to live in urban city groups of behavior that is and is not tolerated in civilized society. Anarchy never works. Though shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, are not original inventions of Moses's 10 commandments, they are ancient common laws.

Beyond that there's a certain ethics in which you are taught starting with your parents, your teachers, your peers, later your employers, and the world around you, we never stop learning this lesson. Ways to behave, say please and thank you, don't be selfish, consider other people's feelings, play fair, don't hit, always ask permission, don't be late, return phone calls, pay your bills, etc... religion is not alone in teaching people the right way to live in peace with each other.
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: navibl on November 19, 2010, 02:15:19 AM
Quote from: "trublu"
Quote from: "navibl"
Those who believe in nothing by default  are drawn into evil because in the absence of no thought, Satan has a place to play, because he does  roam the earth seeking  whom he may devour regardless of belief in him or not.

When you believe in nothing what do you mean? Nothing as in God? I believe in evolution and nature. I am a kind person who tries my very best to help people. Am I drawn into Evil? I'm finding it difficult to understand maybe because of the language. If you could explain I would be very grateful. Thanks.



I guess believing in nature and evolution is believing in something, there just doesn't seem to be much substance or hope! For the poor unfortunate people who nature has not been so good to, and have evolved into pain and desease and poverty and lack, war and destruction. I guess they have nothing to really look forward to in life, just a mere pittful exsistance, because when they die they go from being helpless and without to rotting in the ground. I don't really think I could get through the day with that belief. I would want to put an end to it all if I had no hope of a restored resurrected body that would live in divine glory with my loving heavenly creator for enternity. Maybe that is why thousands of people commit suicide each day!!! No hope of a better life! Or would I come back as a frog!! Just need to understand where I am evolving to!! How sad! I prefer a choice of Good and Evil, to not have that choice is true slavery!!! That is why God gave us that choice, he didn't create slaves.  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: navibl on November 19, 2010, 02:49:45 AM
Quote from: "bec"
Quote from: "navibl"
Quote from: "Gema"
Quote from: "navibl"
Those who believe in nothing by default  are drawn into evil because in the absence of no thought, Satan has a place to play, because he does  roam the earth seeking  whom he may devour regardless of belief in him or not.

I strongly disagree with your quote above. I do not believe and I am not drawn into evil. I believe in human actions and care.

I do not believe in any of them. God/Satan goes hand in hand. "Good" vs "evil".
If I don´t believe in God how can I possible believe in Satan?  Makes no sense.

There is no such thing as Satan, is people with mental problems who creates hell on earth. Rewiring is essential, but from the core.

Quote
IT REALLY IS ALL FOR LOVE!!!!  And I love each and every one of you regardless of what you believe!! We are all God’s children regardless of belief in him or not!!

By reading your post, it looks to me that LOVE would mean to convert?  ;) nah!

People should love each other for the sake of it, not to win "heaven", not to be "safe" from evil or the end of the world. That´s pure conditioning and black mailing.

I love you because I chose to do so, not because a book or faith or a concept tells me to do so. That´s slavery.


hmmmm...OK so if there is not good or evil then there is no need for love either..what is love?  I could hate you and do just as well right?  or just simply ingnor the fact that you even exist, because  don't believe in you!!  Is there a judicidal system were you come from?  I hope not, because if you break the law/evil you will go to prison regardless of believeing in it or not.

No, it's not in your survival interest to hate anyone. It's a evolutionary success trait to be popular and have many friends. Well liked individuals that are accepted into a group will be able to share the resources obtained by the group instead of fending for themselves. The well liked and popular people are more likely to live longer, stay healthy, and have more babies thus giving birth to more people who are likely to be popular too.

Beyond that there is a moral code that has existed since mankind began to live in urban city groups of behavior that is and is not tolerated in civilized society. Anarchy never works. Though shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, are not original inventions of Moses's 10 commandments, they are ancient common laws.

Beyond that there's a certain ethics in which you are taught starting with your parents, your teachers, your peers, later your employers, and the world around you, we never stop learning this lesson. Ways to behave, say please and thank you, don't be selfish, consider other people's feelings, play fair, don't hit, always ask permission, don't be late, return phone calls, pay your bills, etc... religion is not alone in teaching people the right way to live in peace with each other.


Moses didn't create the 10 commandments, and they are irrelevant in the lack of belief in God, because one of the commandements says thou shalt have no other Gods before me. So we can toss those out!!
And I would have to say that in this world today the moral code has been tossed out as well. My son came back from Iraq last year and after cleaning up his best friends brains off the ground, I think the moral code was somehow overlooked. So if there is no good and evil then there are no consequences of the actions of such, I would just figure whoever has the biggest guns wins! Seems our exsistance is doomed. We are on the verge of Nuclear war...One had better hope there is a God because there will be no nature and nothing to evolve. Just look around and listen to the news.
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: bec on November 19, 2010, 02:59:48 AM
Well that's true navibl but religion won't save mankind. Only mankind can save mankind. How fortunate we are that MJ is using his death hoax to give mankind a little shove in that direction.
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: navibl on November 19, 2010, 03:48:08 AM
Quote from: "bec"
Well that's true navibl but religion won't save mankind. Only mankind can save mankind. How fortunate we are that MJ is using his death hoax to give mankind a little shove in that direction.

No religion certainly can not save mankind, but God's son Jesus Christ can.  Christ wasn't about religion.  Michael lives his life to be like Jesus as he said many times.  I think since Michael reads his bible and is aware of what is about to take place, he hopes we come to an understanding of what will save mankind.  How can mankind save ourselves if we are the very ones destroying oursleves?  If we could save ourselves I would imagine we would have already done so.  We are not progressing we are regressing ....What would be the deciding factor on when it is time to step in a save US!!  I somehow believe if that is that case we are HOPELESS
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: trublu on November 19, 2010, 05:28:11 AM
Quote from: "navibl"
Quote from: "trublu"
Quote from: "navibl"
Those who believe in nothing by default  are drawn into evil because in the absence of no thought, Satan has a place to play, because he does  roam the earth seeking  whom he may devour regardless of belief in him or not.

When you believe in nothing what do you mean? Nothing as in God? I believe in evolution and nature. I am a kind person who tries my very best to help people. Am I drawn into Evil? I'm finding it difficult to understand maybe because of the language. If you could explain I would be very grateful. Thanks.



I guess believing in nature and evolution is believing in something, there just doesn't seem to be much substance or hope! For the poor unfortunate people who nature has not been so good to, and have evolved into pain and desease and poverty and lack, war and destruction. I guess they have nothing to really look forward to in life, just a mere pittful exsistance, because when they die they go from being helpless and without to rotting in the ground. I don't really think I could get through the day with that belief. I would want to put an end to it all if I had no hope of a restored resurrected body that would live in divine glory with my loving heavenly creator for enternity. Maybe that is why thousands of people commit suicide each day!!! No hope of a better life! Or would I come back as a frog!! Just need to understand where I am evolving to!! How sad! I prefer a choice of Good and Evil, to not have that choice is true slavery!!! That is why God gave us that choice, he didn't create slaves.  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Hmm I see your point. I do. But on the flip side, why would God allow these people to be in this awful situation? Doesn't seem very fair. Especially as if you say these people believe in him. Also, I don't think being Ateheist makes people unhappy or without hope, it allows one to live this life to the full. I have said previously I am not an atheist, I am agnostic, but I will never conform to a religion.As ar as I'm concenred as previously stated, religion and spiritually are different. Religion divides and gives people a reason for war. Also, just because religion might give people a reason to live and hope (which is great) it doesn't make it true. As far as I am concerned, there are hundreds of religions and how are we to know which is true? For the most part, people chose their religion because of the part of the world they are born into and the cuture of their country or family.
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: curls on November 19, 2010, 05:38:51 AM
Maybe this would be a good point to take a look at what MJ wrote about God in 'Dancing the Dream':

God

It's strange that God doesn't mind expressing Himself/Herself in all the religions of the world,
while people still cling to the notion that their way is the only right way. Whatever you try to say
about God, someone will take offense, even if you say everyone's love of God is right for them.
For me the form God takes is not the most important thing. What's most important is the
essence. My songs and dances are outlines for Him to come in and fill. I hold out the form. She
puts in the sweetness.
I've looked up at the night sky and beheld the stars so intimately close, it was as if my
grandmother had made them for me. "How rich, how sumptuous," I thought. In that moment I
saw God in His creation. I could as easily have seen Her in the beauty of a rainbow, the grace of
a deer bounding through a meadow, the truth of a father's kiss. But for me the sweetest contact
with God has no form. I close my eyes, look within, and enter a deep soft silence. The infinity of
God's creation embraces me. We are one.
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: Serenitys_Dream on November 19, 2010, 05:39:28 AM
Redirected to: http://http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/posting.php?mode=quote&f=72&p=267820

Quote from: "melody"
I think this is being blown way out of proportion.

Anna asked a question (well, several):

Quote from: "_Anna_"
I will put it this way: if God can make things happen and is managing life's situations, then why did Michael have to suffer like that? Why did he have to be humiliated, ridiculed and have his heart thrown in the dirt when he is innocent? Since the very beginning, why did he have to suffer like that, what did he ever do wrong to have God put such weight on his shoulders?

Admittedly, they may have been rhetorical ones but the point is that TS answered her query by redirecting to Job, an upright and righteous man who has done nothing wrong yet went through humiliation and ridicule—all according to "God's" plan. "God" allowed "Satan" to bring all sorts of calamities, suffering, and adversity into his life to test his character and faith. From what I've read, "God" deliberately allows for adversity  in order to shape his believers into the people he wants/needs them to be.

I'm not a religious person either, but I have read the literature (still in the process of finishing it actually). Reading a book doesn't automatically make you an adherent of any religion. Becoming part of a religion is a conscious choice.  If you reassure yourself why you believe (or don't believe) what you do, I don't see how reading the bible (or TS' redirects) could unwillingly brainwash you.

Mind-control is a legitimate and understandable concern. The more I read your posts, however, the more I see a classic case of prejudice. To use you as an example Anna, you're allowing an individual's interpretation of a book (and how they applied that interpretation) to define your opinion of the book, a book that you have no intention of personally acquainting yourself with first-hand, yet you still have formulated an opinion about it without getting to know it. This same prejudice, to this day, has people believing that Michael is a pedophile. They have no intention of acquainting themselves with Michael's true character nor, more importantly, what actually happened in 1993 and 2005. They flat out refuse to get to know Michael or familiarize themselves with the settlement in 1993 and the 2005 court case, and instead rely on the media's interpretation of what happened, the media's interpretation of Michael.

And I say all this, not to imply that you need to read the bible, but to say that you shouldn't let your personal prejudices hinder you from seeing what's actually being said; don't let the source of the information throw you off and more importantly don't let anyone elses' interpretations (but your own) define your reality.

Quote from: "_Anna_"
Quote from: "Sarahli"
And what if the Bible is also Michael's message?
It could be, I don't know, only he knows.. But now, do you think Michael would try to express himself through the Bible? why would he try to push his beliefs on people?

Well, to put myself in Michael's shoes, he seems to have a true and genuine concern for people; if he wholeheartedly believed the bible, why wouldn't he warn those he loved?
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: Serenitys_Dream on November 19, 2010, 05:40:05 AM
Quote from: "_Anna_"
Quote from: "lilwendy"
There IS a message.  What do we believe that message is?  If we believe TS, he has told us already that MJ's plan is to turn the NWO upside down, that we are in critical times (end of the world), that MJ reads his Bible daily, etc.  

can you please tell me where can I see with my eyes Michael stating he reads Bible daily? I just want to see with my eyes. Because I've read this sentence about Michael reading the Bible daily and who said that was Ian Halperin.If you know what I mean.

As long as I don't see Michael saying with his own mouth "I read Bible daily", I don't believe it. I know it might sound harsh but it's how I think. I don't believe anybody who makes statements about him. Only he can know what he does inside his home.And I've never seen Michael with my own eyes saying he reads the Bible daily.Isn't it like this- to not believe anything you hear or see, and just because it's printed in black ink doesn't make it the gospel.

"When you hear it from my mouth, then you can believe it"- Michael

Michael Jackson

On studying the Bible: 1976 "Black Stars" Magazine interview
"Each day I take time out to study the Bible, no matter where I am. The teachings of the Bible have added a new dimension to my life. It, somehow, makes me whole."

1979 Ebony Magazine
"I believe in the Bible and I try to follow the Bible. I know I’m an imperfect person… I’m not making myself an angel because I’m not an angel and I’m not a devil either. I try to be the best I can and I try to do what I think is right. It’s that simple…I don’t just pray at night. I pray at different times during the day. Whenever I see something beautiful, I say, "Oh, God, that’s beautiful." I say little prayers like that all through the day."

2003 60 Minutes TV interview with Ed Bradley
"I will never stop helping and loving people the way Jesus said to. He said "Continue to love. Always love. Remember children. Imitate the children." Not childish, but childlike."

2005 At Large with Geraldo Rivera TV Interview
"Caring. And reading the Bible, learning about God, Jesus, love. He said, 'Bring on the children', 'Imitate the children', 'Be like the children' and 'Take care of others.' Take care of old people. And we were raised with those values. Those are very important values and my family and I we were raised with those values and they continue strong in us today."

"It's important to love your neighbors.  I truly think it comes from my mother and God. The way we were raised. The values my mother instilled in us in youth. She was always with the Bible teaching us - we’d go to service all the time. Four times a week, and I’m so glad we did that because those values are very important. I don’t know if I could have done as well without them."

"I try to be kind and generous and to give to people and to do what I think God wants me to do. Sometimes I pray and say "where do you want me to go next, God? What do you want me to do from here?" I’ve always been very spiritual in that way. It’s nothing new.  I always have been."

Time Magazine
Seth Riggs, a vocal teacher who worked with Michael for two hours a day, 5 or 6 days a week while Michael was recording Thriller and also on subsequent projects, commented on Michael's character in a Time Magazine article.  "Michael is a very special man. He would come in for his lesson and sit down and we would have a prayer and then read the Bible and then have another prayer and start to work.  That's the way he liked to begin his day.  Can you imagine a performer as big as Michael Jackson turning around in a lesson and discussing how wonderful God has been to him and how much he loves God?"
http://http://www.reflectionsonthedance.com/The-Man.html

Michael Jackson Bodyguards' Q&A:
06/17/2010
Among the tidbits shared by the bodyguards? Michael Jackson cooked home-made meals for his kids, owned a chocolate lab named Kenya, read the Bible daily, used his zoo as a pick-up line, loved Subway, and even had his own Facebook account.
http://http://community.livejournal.com/ohnotheydidnt/48008897.html

Did Michael Jackson read the bible?
Yes, Michael Jackson was very well read on the Bible and could quote scripture from memory.
http://http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Did_Michael_Jackson_read_the_bible
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: trustno1 on November 19, 2010, 05:41:47 AM
Navibl:

I think it's very wrong to suggest those who do not have a religious faith are leading empty lives and are by default "drawn to the devil". That kind of talk incites hatred on both sides.  I am not religious but I have always lived my life the way I think is right, to be a good, honest, compassionate person who would help anyone in need and who treasures their children and tries to instill the same moral values in them.  I think navibl you said it all when you said you couldn't get through the day knowing there was nothing after this life but to rot in the ground, that's what religion is for many people it's a security blanket of sorts, it makes it easier to get through the day if you believe you were put here for a purpose.  That's entirely your choice to believe that but to suggest those who don't are misguided or desolate is plain wrong.  I've said before it's pointless to get into arguments about religion but when someone says something so irresponsible I won't just ignore it. As Trublu pointed out there are so many religions and how can you say yours is the right one? You can't, anyone who has a religious belief no matter what it is believes theirs is the right one.  So much suffering in the world is caused by this very argument.  I think the least we can do is try not to judge each other in the same way.
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: diggyon on November 19, 2010, 05:47:43 AM
Hi Im_convincedmjalive,
I really love your post. I read it with tears in my eyes. I guess MJ suffered a lot in his life. this is God's wish. God knows us all. And he also knows how we think. This suffering Mj has been through is the reason why he is doing all this. He loves us all, yyou and me and everyone else. My question is: if he hasen't been through all this would he have cared about exposing the Illuminati or the NWO?? I doubt!!!!!!!!!
So may be this is God's plan. You can never feel someone elses pain  unless you have suffered from your own pains. Peace
We all remember Moses. He was living in a great palace. But he never forgot God's words. and yes, he suffered a lot. So may God give us the courage and the support to defeat our enemies. Amen
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: Serenitys_Dream on November 19, 2010, 06:50:52 AM
Never mind I am going to bed it's 4am. These 2 threads and 2 forums are confusing me :lol:
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: Sarahli on November 19, 2010, 07:00:46 AM
There are very good people amongst the non-believers, this is not the point. The point is that they knowingly choose to not believe and to not follow God's commands. The Paradise God promises is for the believers, those who ackowledge Him and His messages. It is not only a question of being good or bad, it is about Faith in the Creator and His absolute Authority. We are here for that specific reason. So, if it happens that all this is for real then the non-believers will just have to face the consequences of their rejection of God's message. We cannot convince the people and certainly not that way. Jesus performed miracles and people still did not believe... sometimes it is just the way it is.

Our God is one and the same despite the different religions and this is what should unite us.

When you are true believer in God you cannot skip that subject, this is a part of yourself hence I presume that TS will still redirect to the Bible  :D
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: MissG on November 19, 2010, 07:22:59 AM
Quote from: "navibl"
Quote from: "Gema"
Quote from: "navibl"
Those who believe in nothing by default  are drawn into evil because in the absence of no thought, Satan has a place to play, because he does  roam the earth seeking  whom he may devour regardless of belief in him or not.

I strongly disagree with your quote above. I do not believe and I am not drawn into evil. I believe in human actions and care.

I do not believe in any of them. God/Satan goes hand in hand. "Good" vs "evil".
If I don´t believe in God how can I possible believe in Satan?  Makes no sense.

There is no such thing as Satan, is people with mental problems who creates hell on earth. Rewiring is essential, but from the core.

Quote
IT REALLY IS ALL FOR LOVE!!!!  And I love each and every one of you regardless of what you believe!! We are all God’s children regardless of belief in him or not!!

By reading your post, it looks to me that LOVE would mean to convert?  ;) nah!

People should love each other for the sake of it, not to win "heaven", not to be "safe" from evil or the end of the world. That´s pure conditioning and black mailing.

I love you because I chose to do so, not because a book or faith or a concept tells me to do so. That´s slavery.


hmmmm...OK so if there is not good or evil then there is no need for love either..what is love?  I could hate you and do just as well right?  or just simply ingnor the fact that you even exist, because  don't believe in you!!  Is there a judicidal system were you come from?  I hope not, because if you break the law/evil you will go to prison regardless of believeing in it or not.


Hmmmm, what?
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: MissG on November 19, 2010, 07:32:30 AM
Quote from: "trustno1"
Navibl:

I think it's very wrong to suggest those who do not have a religious faith are leading empty lives and are by default "drawn to the devil". That kind of talk incites hatred on both sides.  I am not religious but I have always lived my life the way I think is right, to be a good, honest, compassionate person who would help anyone in need and who treasures their children and tries to instill the same moral values in them.  I think navibl you said it all when you said you couldn't get through the day knowing there was nothing after this life but to rot in the ground, that's what religion is for many people it's a security blanket of sorts, it makes it easier to get through the day if you believe you were put here for a purpose.  That's entirely your choice to believe that but to suggest those who don't are misguided or desolate is plain wrong.  I've said before it's pointless to get into arguments about religion but when someone says something so irresponsible I won't just ignore it. As Trublu pointed out there are so many religions and how can you say yours is the right one? You can't, anyone who has a religious belief no matter what it is believes theirs is the right one.  So much suffering in the world is caused by this very argument.  I think the least we can do is try not to judge each other in the same way.

Can I say here...Aaaaaamén?  :lol:
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: MissG on November 19, 2010, 07:43:32 AM
I see no harm in TS´s redirections  :)  I never read Biblic passages on this level before and I enjoy some of them. It is a mix of morals, ethics and psychology that I perceive as the standard living value during those years. Some passages are using the profesy of God as something to fear, but I can also see that may be that was the only way to approach people in order to avoid crime.
Imo, It´s a book to controll de masses and live accordingly within society.

ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'-->Authority figure

TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'-->"you" are not holly and must obey.

THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain
.'-->fear, respecting the authority?

FOUR: 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
'-->one happy holiday!

FIVE: 'Honor your father and your mother.'-->respect!

SIX: 'You shall not murder.'-->common sense!avoiding crime!

SEVEN: 'You shall not commit adultery.'-->family unity values!

EIGHT: 'You shall not steal
.'-->common sense again avoiding crime!

NINE: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.'
-->morals and truth!

TEN: 'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's
.' -->again avoiding crime to live in peace!
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: navibl on November 19, 2010, 02:03:27 PM
Quote from: "trustno1"
Navibl:

I think it's very wrong to suggest those who do not have a religious faith are leading empty lives and are by default "drawn to the devil". That kind of talk incites hatred on both sides.  I am not religious but I have always lived my life the way I think is right, to be a good, honest, compassionate person who would help anyone in need and who treasures their children and tries to instill the same moral values in them.  I think navibl you said it all when you said you couldn't get through the day knowing there was nothing after this life but to rot in the ground, that's what religion is for many people it's a security blanket of sorts, it makes it easier to get through the day if you believe you were put here for a purpose.  That's entirely your choice to believe that but to suggest those who don't are misguided or desolate is plain wrong.  I've said before it's pointless to get into arguments about religion but when someone says something so irresponsible I won't just ignore it. As Trublu pointed out there are so many religions and how can you say yours is the right one? You can't, anyone who has a religious belief no matter what it is believes theirs is the right one.  So much suffering in the world is caused by this very argument.  I think the least we can do is try not to judge each other in the same way.


Obiviously you have paid no attenton to everything I have said but rather picked out what suited your opinion, to make your point, just as the media has done Michael for years.  This is what causes suffering in the world, lack of attention to the important things.  I refuse to argue over religion beliefs or the lack therefore, because I am not a religious person, but then you would know that if you had paid attention.  This is the last that I will have to say on this issue because, I will not debate with you my personal convictions in a forum thread that is designed to support Michael Joe Jackson and his spritiual belief and his purpose and the mission he has worked his whole life to achieve.  
I would hope with you being the compassionate person that you are and all, that you wouldn’t walk into someone’s home and find fault with their spiritual convictions and tell them how irresponsible they are for discussing what is on their heart.  Because this particular thread is our living room for loving and supporting what Michael has stated that he believes?  

 If you chose to put your faith in yourself alone that is your choice.  I personally am not self sustaining and don’t really know of any other human being that is.  Everyone looks to someone or something to sustain them, label and call it what you like, that is your opinion and like the saying is everyone has one and is entitled to it, so the name calling is out of line. We are here to Love and support one another because our children are suffering and dying and people are losing their lives in war and humanity has to have hope and faith in something or what is the point in life period. I personally chose to put my faith in something that will sustain me eternally.  Truth is not relevant so in the end as Michael said the Truth will prevail.  It is our job to find and know what it is.  Because good and evil forces are at war!
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: navibl on November 19, 2010, 02:13:16 PM
Quote from: "Serenitys_Dream"
Never mind I am going to bed it's 4am. These 2 threads and 2 forums are confusing me :lol:


Heeheee   God bless you girl..It does get better I promise...It's all for Love, and I do Love you!!
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: trustno1 on November 19, 2010, 02:31:43 PM
navibl I didn't resort to name-calling at all, if you could point out the name I called you I will gladly apologise for that. I was simply saying that we are all here for the same reason but we do not all share the same religious beliefs.  Therefore none of us has the right to judge anyone on their belief system whether it is religious or not.   Michael did not preach discrimination towards anyone no matter if they shared his beliefs or not. I am a compassionate person which is why I  respect anyone's right to a religious belief but I'd expect them to extend the same courtesy to me for not choosing to have one. I did not disrespect your beliefs or anyone else's as they are their own beliefs to hold on to.  I am sustained by the belief that there is more than we know, I do have a spiritual side but I am fully aware there are others who think that's wrong. That's fine with me as we're all entitled to our beliefs. You're right that this forum is here to support Michael and investigate the hoax and normally I would steer clear of any conversation regarding religion as I know from reading others debates on here that it only leads to trouble.  This is therefore the last I'll say on the subject and from now on I'll follow my own advice and leave the religious bickering to others.  As you said there is real suffering in the world, and we are Michael's army, we're all different, and I think we are stronger for our differences.
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: navibl on November 19, 2010, 02:41:40 PM
Quote from: "trustno1"
navibl I didn't resort to name-calling at all, if you could point out the name I called you I will gladly apologise for that. I was simply saying that we are all here for the same reason but we do not all share the same religious beliefs.  Therefore none of us has the right to judge anyone on their belief system whether it is religious or not.   Michael did not preach discrimination towards anyone no matter if they shared his beliefs or not. I am a compassionate person which is why I  respect anyone's right to a religious belief but I'd expect them to extend the same courtesy to me for not choosing to have one. I did not disrespect your beliefs or anyone else's as they are their own beliefs to hold on to.  I am sustained by the belief that there is more than we know, I do have a spiritual side but I am fully aware there are others who think that's wrong. That's fine with me as we're all entitled to our beliefs. You're right that this forum is here to support Michael and investigate the hoax and normally I would steer clear of any conversation regarding religion as I know from reading others debates on here that it only leads to trouble.  This is therefore the last I'll say on the subject and from now on I'll follow my own advice and leave the religious bickering to others.  As you said there is real suffering in the world, and we are Michael's army, we're all different, and I think we are stronger for our differences.

No need to apologise, I understand you, and we have a huge task in front of us, so we should just move on.  It really is all for L.O.V.E. and not just words.
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: trustno1 on November 19, 2010, 02:53:20 PM
I agree 100% Navibl,  I think it's always best to work out differences and then move on even stronger.  And I think we're a pretty strong army! Thank you so much for your gracious reply it is much appreciated.  Much L.O.V.E. to you.  :)
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: MsTrinity333 on November 19, 2010, 04:54:21 PM
Dear TS,

Wow... lots of debate since yesterday's redirect.  I just wanted to thank you for the Job passage & redefining the point.  I get it.  God KNOWS I get it.  Going through the intense testing of the Wilderness Experience & Dark Night of the Soul is something I wouldn't wish upon my worst enemy.  When God pulls back his presence and lets the enemy have free rein to do his worst to you, and refine your soul in such spiritual darkness is NOT the most pleasant of experiences. How do you describe such intensity? ...  total abandonment.

Dark Night of the Soul is the extreme form of The Wilderness of Preparation. It is characterized by the apparent loss of all the blessings we associate with being close to God – and it may last for a CONSIDERABLE length of time! It's been 10 yrs and sometime I wonder if I'm not still skirting the edges of this abyss ready to fall back in.  'Dark Night of the Soul’ is a term which has become widespread to describe prolonged periods when our senses are shut down to the point where we can no longer feel the Lord’s presence.  
I couldn't even function...   :|

Be still and know that I am God   Ps 46:10
"be still" comes from the Hiphil stem of the verb (רפה) rapha (meaning to be weak, to let go, to release), which might better be translated as, "cause yourselves to let go" or "let yourselves become weak" (in poetic contexts, the noun form rephai'im was sometimes used as a synonym for "the place of the dead").  Hmmmm 'place of the dead'.  There's a good description of what I felt.  :|

But to what end are we to "be still," "let go," "surrender," and even to "die to ourselves"? In Hebrew grammar, the emphasis of coordinate imperatives ("be still!" and "know!") is on the second imperative. In other words, we surrender in order to know that God is in control as Ribbono Shel Olam – the Master of the Universe.  We "let go" in order to objectively know the saving power of God in our lives. We give up trusting in ourselves and our own designs in order to experience the glory of God's all-sufficiency (Ex 14:14).

http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Medita ... still.html (http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Meditations/Be_Still/be_still.html)

I seek Him and He won’t be found; He turns a deaf ear to my sighs and moaning.
‘Tell me who You are and what You want,’ I say to Him.
‘Make Yourself known and then let me die.’
I am uncontrolled almost to the extent of being rude to Him.
I end up by calling Him cruel, but immediately afterwards beg His pardon.
Some of the things I say are prompted not by anger but by so much love.
(Gemma Galgani)1

‘I shall and shall not be with you.
I shall clothe you in My grace,
but you will think yourself deprived of it,
because while dwelling within you I shall be able to go unrecognized.
I am concealing Myself from you
so that you may discover by yourself
what you are without Me.’
(Margaret of Cortona)

Some helpful information:
http://www.khouse.org/articles/2000/291/ (http://www.khouse.org/articles/2000/291/)
http://www.johnankerberg.com/Articles/_ ... 3W0100.pdf (http://www.johnankerberg.com/Articles/_PDFArchives/streams-of-life/SL3W0100.pdf)
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: MsTrinity333 on November 19, 2010, 05:07:44 PM
Glitch in the system... Someone please delete the double.
Thanks
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: bec on November 19, 2010, 05:50:33 PM
I understood what you said navibl and I respect it. I'm glad I asked you about it because I mistook your original post as expressing something different.

You're right it's about more then words, but words are what connect this community together. I am glad to have had this exchange with you  :D

Ps. and thanks TS for inspiring the conversation.
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: traceys_home on November 21, 2010, 06:01:27 AM
Quote from: "navibl"
Quote from: "trublu"
Quote from: "navibl"
Those who believe in nothing by default  are drawn into evil because in the absence of no thought, Satan has a place to play, because he does  roam the earth seeking  whom he may devour regardless of belief in him or not.

When you believe in nothing what do you mean? Nothing as in God? I believe in evolution and nature. I am a kind person who tries my very best to help people. Am I drawn into Evil? I'm finding it difficult to understand maybe because of the language. If you could explain I would be very grateful. Thanks.



I guess believing in nature and evolution is believing in something, there just doesn't seem to be much substance or hope! For the poor unfortunate people who nature has not been so good to, and have evolved into pain and desease and poverty and lack, war and destruction. I guess they have nothing to really look forward to in life, just a mere pittful exsistance, because when they die they go from being helpless and without to rotting in the ground. I don't really think I could get through the day with that belief. I would want to put an end to it all if I had no hope of a restored resurrected body that would live in divine glory with my loving heavenly creator for enternity. Maybe that is why thousands of people commit suicide each day!!! No hope of a better life! Or would I come back as a frog!! Just need to understand where I am evolving to!! How sad! I prefer a choice of Good and Evil, to not have that choice is true slavery!!! That is why God gave us that choice, he didn't create slaves.  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Hmmm....Agree to a disagree! But...all in all, we are here, we are alive no matter our individual "Position/s In Life". Yet we are born...we are alive for a reason (selfish reasons for some of us), we all have our purpose (just figure it out)...although be it "selfish sacrifice" sometimes, we are none the less,  here. We, "I" could never look down upon another because he/she appears to be lacking in a "normal" way. What's normal, What's usual, What's Execpted? None of of us here in this forum are any of the for-mentioned. So I ask you all, to walk a mile in the shoes of those less fortunate, come back here and give your report on that time in your life. I bet we all get nothing....nothing....nothing! If this is so, then we should all bow our heads to one another for many reasons...belief, love, sanctity and the fortune of life, because in the end, LIFe, is all that matters!


Our personal message to others is all that matters




:mrgreen:


PS
BTW...Good and Evil dose not exist, it's an image of your imagination...IMHO! You are the Good and the Evil of your realm! We all are my friend...it's all very relative. You make what you believe to be true...a fourth + dimension.
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: suspicious mind on November 27, 2010, 09:17:52 PM
God allowed satan to tempt job because he knew he could trust him to love him even when all of the good things that God had given him were taken away.

breaking news : faith is a two way street  :o




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ype1xE0wzsg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ype1xE0wzsg)
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: Believe 777 on November 27, 2010, 09:33:06 PM
A@ traceys_home
Quote
PS
BTW...Good and Evil dose not exist, it's an image of your imagination...IMHO! You are the Good and the Evil of your realm! We all are my friend...it's all very relative. You make what you believe to be true...a fourth + dimension.

This is so true and very well said  ;)  This really brings it home!
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: mjj4ever777 on November 27, 2010, 11:25:57 PM
Quote from: "Believe 777"
A@ traceys_home
Quote
PS
BTW...Good and Evil dose not exist, it's an image of your imagination...IMHO! You are the Good and the Evil of your realm! We all are my friend...it's all very relative. You make what you believe to be true...a fourth + dimension.

This is so true and very well said  ;)  This really brings it home!

I agree also...wholeheartedly! Love and Light to all!
Title: Re: TIAI 11/18
Post by: traceys_home on December 04, 2010, 09:45:05 PM
Quote from: "Believe 777"
A@ traceys_home
Quote
PS
BTW...Good and Evil dose not exist, it's an image of your imagination...IMHO! You are the Good and the Evil of your realm! We all are my friend...it's all very relative. You make what you believe to be true...a fourth + dimension.

This is so true and very well said  ;)  This really brings it home!

Thank you Believe777, I'm glad you "understood" what my message was meant to reveal. By the way everyone, it is just my opinion.  :D



:mrgreen:
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