Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators

Hoax Investigation => Understanding His Music & (Short) Films => Michael's Life & Clues He Left Us => Michael => Topic started by: bec on November 17, 2010, 12:08:03 AM

Title: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: bec on November 17, 2010, 12:08:03 AM
I blogged this here: http://exploringthehoax.wordpress.com/2 ... nd-really/ (http://exploringthehoax.wordpress.com/2010/11/17/hold-my-hand-really/)

but I really am interested in getting some feedback on this theory so I am posting it as well.

Hold My Hand: Duet with Akon and MJ is a: weak track (in my opinion), the first single released on first MJ "posthumous" album, first of massive $250 million music contract with Sony, first new music in 9 years from a troubled global icon who's career was severely impacted by false allegations and who's estate is seeking to rebuild a legacy for.

This is a big deal, right?

So I already said I think the track is weak. That's an opinion, of course, which means little, but to back it up, the music is simple, there's no layering of instruments and sounds, there's little depth to the lyrics. I mean it's not a bad song but it's not... wow at all. It's very vanilla pudding if you know what I mean. Fine song, pretty song, good message but forgettable and not likely to get non-MJ fans excited to hear more.

Now here's where I'm going to get a little controversial. I think there's something more going on with this song and this album then just an innocuous seeming album release.

Sony and the Estate ought to both have the same goal (in all realistic proportions), to present MJ in his best light and attempt to convince the public to move past the false allegations and onto feeling comfortable with accepting MJ as an artist again... more so then enjoying his music, though that's important too... people aren't going to be ok with MJ music again until they're ok with MJ again. Follow me?

Are they comfortable with MJ again? I don't know. Are child molestation allegations the first thing people still think of when they think of MJ? For a lot of people, yes, that's still true. It sucks and it's not fair and it proves that people are quick to judge and slow to change their minds, but it's the world we still live in.

That being said, how wise is it for Sony (speaking as if MJ was actually dead), under these real world conditions, to release Hold My Hand as the first single to promote the album when the last hand most people remember seeing MJ holding was Gavin's on the nightmarish Bashir tapes???

Ok and to top it all off, considering the homosexuality rumors and gay bashing that goes with it, Sony thinks that no one is likely to snicker at the thought of Akon and MJ holding each other til sunlight? I know that's not what the lyrics mean but you know it could be taken that way. and likely will by someone, somewhere, with a blog and an audience, sooner or later.

And then we have what appears to be Akon and MJ holding hands in silhouette on the single cover. So then they're singing about holding each others hand then right? No, but again, it could so easy be twisted that way, and considering the past track record of things in this department... well, I already said it once. It's only a matter of time.

Does this seem like wise marketing for a company who just invested the most money ever into a music contract with a dead icon who died recently pretty much in shame and exile and a swirl of rumors and previous allegations?


No. This seems very foolish. Sony looks either completely clueless as to the current market of their dead icon's brand name, or they are brazenly shoving it in people's faces in lieu of giving them knock-your-socks-off music.

Because there are better, more mainstream tracks that would announce this new album in a big way. And people would be so busy vibing to it they'd forget all about anything ugly associated with MJ.

So, what are the possible reasons for HMH to be the first single from the new album?

This is getting long so I'll paraphrase the reasons that I came up with and then please add your own. I'm curious what you guys think of this.

-The handwritten note left by Michael stating he wanted HMH released first. (I don't buy this explanation. I neither believe that any note discussing track release wishes was left after the "death" nor that Sony would actually honor it anyway considering what I already wrote in this post.)

-The song was chosen for the first single because Akon could help promote it. But he isn't, so that doesn't seem plausible.

-Sony was just hoping that adding Akon's name to the song would give it  automatic added interest... and no one noticed the subtle homoerotic aspects to the lyrics or the reminder to the Bashir tapes when the decision was made.

-The song is supposed to shove this stuff in our faces (Bashir/Gavin/allegations, homosexual rumors) for some reason that I don't understand yet. But as this is risky, I don't see Sony doing this. Of the options I can think of, it only makes sense that an ALIVE MJ himself would be willing to do this. It would only mean enough to HIM personally, to want to confront it so head on style. Anyone seeking to profit off MJs name should be hoping everyone forgets about these things. But to MJ his name is more important then money, his name is what he leaves to his children. The only way to fix it once and for all is to attack it and win.

Of course HMH is only the first track, but I'm interested in how it goes down with this single and what the other songs on the album will be. I'm starting to do the: ...what if... the album itself is a hoax? I mean of course it's a real album, with real songs, and you can really go buy it.... but a hoax in that it's not designed to be simply for listening to songs, nor resurrecting a music career for Sony to make money off of. Maybe it's a message carrier, a means to help advance a larger agenda, a package of bottomless newspaper story inspirations, ingredients for Twitter wars, and to spark scripted and improvisational debates far and wide. Effectively and thereby kicking this hoax into the next phase... maybe?
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: nynyro on November 17, 2010, 12:13:55 AM
The album being a hoax...that was my first instinct.
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: Serenitys_Dream on November 17, 2010, 12:18:32 AM
I am going to disagree with you on this. I love the song and that picture is of a man on the left holding the hand of a woman on the right.
The bodies are shaped differently, the body on the left has muscles...masculine looking and the arm on the right is more slender, the hand appears smaller and more feminine, look at the wrist. All only IMO of course.

[attachment=0:1oowdxs8]HMH.jpg[/attachment:1oowdxs8]
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: nynyro on November 17, 2010, 12:33:16 AM
Quote from: "Serenitys_Dream"
I am going to disagree with you on this. I love the song and that picture is of a man on the left holding the hand of a woman on the right.
The bodies are shaped differently, the body on the right has muscles...masculine looking and the arm on the right is more slender, the hand appears smaller and more feminine, look at the wrist. All only IMO of course.

[attachment=0:ijmsdxht]HMH.jpg[/attachment:ijmsdxht]

I agree with you that the  the hands are not two men.  I also don't think their was homosexual innuendo in the song.  So i disagree with that part of the OP's post.  However, the strange happenings surrounding the release of this album scream hoax.  The album and the songs on it are a message.

I feel that when people get this album, if they get this album, they will be surprised by what they get.
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: simalves on November 17, 2010, 12:36:06 AM
We already know they purposely released a fake sounding track for Breaking News and then replaced it fast enough with a better one. We know that money hungry Sony would never release tracks for free on any website. And they are pulling everyone's videos so that only theirs is up, so they can have only the version they want out at that point in time.

This has to be Michael driven and I bet he has the best Stereo Sound System that he let Harvey listen to the tracks on. He had to have told Harvey what his gameplan is and H is going along with it.
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: bec on November 17, 2010, 12:37:31 AM
Ok SD, that's very valid. But what about the other points? Hand holding, male-male duet about hand holding and the innuendo it triggers, the track itself compared to other snippets we've heard recently and in the past, Sony's decision to put out this one first... you get the idea.

Also nyonyo, I am NOT insinuating that the lyrics are meant to be homosexual.... I'm pointing out that  it's so easy to be twisted that way, perhaps way too easy considering what's at stake for Sony, why select this track?
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: mj33 on November 17, 2010, 12:51:12 AM
I was thinking that maybe Hold My Hand was released first because it was leaked way back in 2007 so people have already heard it or can hear it for free now since its so easy to download already. Maybe Sony thought that single sales for the song would already be low so they decided it would make a good freebie.

Also the lyrics "This life don't last for ever.." is a tear jerker for a supposedly dead mega star and is sure to get attention and hopefully open peoples minds to MJs innocence.

Michaels full world vindication I hope is part of the BAM
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: Serenitys_Dream on November 17, 2010, 01:14:59 AM
Quote from: "bec"
Ok SD, that's very valid. But what about the other points? Hand holding, male-male duet about hand holding and the innuendo it triggers, the track itself compared to other snippets we've heard recently and in the past, Sony's decision to put out this one first... you get the idea.

Also nyonyo, I am NOT insinuating that the lyrics are meant to be homosexual.... I'm pointing out that  it's so easy to be twisted that way, perhaps way too easy considering what's at stake for Sony, why select this track?

Men holding hands is actually only taboo in Western culture. Straight men hold hands in many countries and it is culturally acceptable.

Only in Asia: Straight Guys Holding Hands
Pakistan men are an interesting bunch…who like to hold each others’ hands. Hand holding between Pakistani men signifies friendship and solidarity. Despite what you may think, being gay is against the law so we highly doubt this sign of affection will ever lead to anything more.

(http://www.wegomobile.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/dsc_0470_2_2.jpg)
http://www.wegomobile.com/2008/11/28/only-in-asia-straight-guys-holding-hands/

Men Holding Hands
Mariana van Zeller takes a look at the common practice of men holding hands in the Arab world
Video:http://current.com/shows/vanguard/76352422_men-holding-hands.htm?xid=RSSfeed

Hand Symbolism
Hands represent relationships and connections with the world. Hands serve as a form of communication and can represent authority, hate, protection, justice, etc depending on the gesture. The left hand symbolizes your graciousness and the feminine, receptive qualities, while the right hand symbolizes the masculine and active attributes. Holding hands with someone represents love and affection. Hands are clasped or closed, signify unity, completeness, acceptance or agreement.
http://dreammoods.com/cgibin/dreamdictionarysearch.pl?method=exact&header=dreamsymbol&search=hand

As for Sony putting that song out first, maybe there really was a note from directing that to be done.In the following video Michael says he owns half of Sony, the he says he owns half of Sony`s publishing. So maybe he owns more than just the half the catalogue or not but either way his wealth is tied to the success of Sony. He may have insiders within Sony helping him or he could simply be directly controlling this all.

Starts at about 1:24 in this video. I did not alter the time line of when he says things, I just cut out some of the cheering from the crowd so we can hear what Michael has to say without interruption.

[youtube:1lev075v]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17CEKKyaY6s[/youtube:1lev075v]
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: MJonmind on November 17, 2010, 01:18:15 AM
In all honesty, though I love the song, when I first looked at the pic yesterday I was thinking how the female aspect of the one on the right was minimal, slightly thinner wrist and slightly wider hips, otherwise they're the same height, upper arms the same. The song itself does not even contain "girl" or anything just "Baby". Do homo men refer to each other as baby? Maybe someone here knows. I wonder if sometimes when people have gotten hurt over and over again by someone of the opposite sex, they might be more willing to receive the comfort of same-sex. Maybe I'm totally wrong. I believe 100% that up to his relationship with Lisa and Debbie failed, he totally loved women. But we don't see much of his real feelings after that. The song One More Chance is clearly about his love for a girl saying "her" over and over. One More Chance video was made in 2003, but Hold My Hand is apparantely 2007, which is much later. :?  :?

Then I happened to see this very negative news article about Akon, his treatment of women, and sexually explicit songs, so he's definately not gay.  http://twogirlsandagay.blogspot.com/200 ... rapin.html (http://twogirlsandagay.blogspot.com/2007/04/akon-goes-arapin.html)
So why would Michael even want to sing with this guy or be friends with him?

[youtube:154teuu5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BnJeUnv3CU&feature=player_embedded[/youtube:154teuu5]
Quote
Thursday, April 19, 2007
Akon goes a'rapin!

Akon totally grinded the crap out of the girl (who is rumoured to be 14) in the photo above. And by "grinded the crap out of" i mean practically R'd her with his clothes on. Take a look:

Apparently this went down in Trinidad, where Akon told the audience that he was having a dance-off contest and that they could win a trip to Africa. By "trip to Africa", Akon obviously meant he'd put his African wang all up in them, because that's all this "winner" got. There was no contest, there was no trip to Africa, Akon just wanted to get his grind on. Dang, Akon - I hope you at least bought that poor girl a pizza when you were finished tossing her around like a raped rag doll.

Source via Dlisted

Posted by Amber at 7:55 AM  

Labels: Akon, dance-offs, girl #1, going a'rapin, lies

8 comments:
 Anne said...
I HATE IT!!!

April 19, 2007 8:29:00 AM EST  
 Anonymous said...
WHOA!!!!!! He just left her on stage laying there! Ouch

April 19, 2007 8:39:00 AM EST  
 Anonymous said...
this is really the lowest, and 2 think that people will still support him. his actions towards her was noet even gentlt but brutal, almost as if she was a rag doll. he should be ashamed and DONT EVER COME BACK 2 TRINIDAD.

April 19, 2007 10:34:00 AM EST  
 Anonymous said...
TRINIDAD SAYS .......

SHAME ON U!!! 2 D LOWEST U HAVE BROUGHT OUR WOMEN. NO WONDER YOU R SO LONELY AND NOBODY WANT U 2 BE TOGETHER. IS THAT HOW YOUR FATHER TREATED UR MOTHER, IS THAT D RESPECT HE THOUGHT U, 2 RAG AROUND WOMEN????

April 19, 2007 10:42:00 AM EST  
 Evorgleb said...
Akon is such a clown. I just did a feature over on Highbrid Nation with video on how the guy basically molests women on stage at his concerts while his cheesy music plays in the background. I can't stand him. I don't even understand his popularity right now.

April 19, 2007 11:36:00 AM EST  
 candini said...
the video is gone now and i can't see it. boo.

April 19, 2007 4:42:00 PM EST  
 Anonymous said...
Ew, I hate Akon. All he does is sing about sex, he's not creative at all. And was he even BORN in Africa? Jeeeeeeeeeeez.
And even though I hate Akon, (he's soooooooo ugly too) it really was that girl's fault. Sure, he shouldn't have been doing that to those girls, but those girls should have known from his music that he's a total perv. Also, that girl's dad shouldn't be mad at Akon, he should be pissed at his daughter for wearing THAT OUTFIT and going into a club. Obviously something bad was going to happen to her if she was wearing that and going to an Akon concert in a club. Seriously.

April 8, 2008 2:18:00 PM EST  
 Anonymous said...
akon actully gets some but yall fuckin dumb assess who are jelious and that girl should get fucked by him shes hot

And here's the song lyrics again:
Quote
Hold My Hand lyrics

This life don't last forever (hold my hand)
So tell me what we're waiting for (hold my hand)
We're Better off being together (hold my hand)
Than being miserable alone (hold my hand)

Cause I've been there before
And you've been there before
But together we can be alright.
Cause when it gets dark and when it gets cold
We hold each other till we see the sunlight

(So if you just)


Hold my hand
Baby I promise that I'll do
All I can
Things will get better if you just hold my hand
Nothing can come between us if you just hold,
hold my, hold, hold my, hooold, hold my hand.

(Hold my hand)

The nights are getting darker (hold my hand)
And there's no peace inside (hold my hand)
So why make our lives harder (hold my hand)
By fighting love, tonight. (sooooo)

Cause I've been there before
And you've been there before
But together we can be alright (alright)
Cause when it gets dark and when it gets cold
We hold each other till we see the sunlight

So if you just hold my hand
Baby I promise that I'll do (If you just, If you just)
All I can
Things will get better if you just hold my hand (yeahh)
Nothing can come between us if you just hold,
hold my, hold, hold my, hooold, hold my hand.

Hold my hand

I can tell you're tired of being lonely (yeahhh)
Take my hand don't let go baby hold me (hold mee)
Come to me and let me be your one and only (hold my haand)
So I can make it alright til' the morning (hold my hand)

I can tell you're tired of being lonely (hold my hand)
Take my hand don't let go baby hold me (hold mee)
Come to me and let me be your one and only (one and only)
So I can make it alright til' the morning (hold my hand)

Hold my hand

Hold my hand (yeahhh)
Baby I promise (hold my hand) that I'll do
All I can (hold my hand)
Things will get better (oohhhhoooo) if you just hold my hand (ooooo)
Nothing can come between us if you just hold,
hold my, hold, hold my, hooold, hold my hand.

(Hold my hand)

Hold my hand (yeahh)
Baby I promise (yeahh x4)that I'll do
All I can (hold my haand)
Things will get better if you just (oohhoo) hold my hand
Nothing can come between us if you just hold,
hold my, hold, hold my, hooold, hold my hand.

Hold my hand
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: Snoopy71 on November 17, 2010, 01:41:35 AM
Quote from: "bec"
Ok SD, that's very valid. But what about the other points? Hand holding, male-male duet about hand holding and the innuendo it triggers, the track itself compared to other snippets we've heard recently and in the past, Sony's decision to put out this one first... you get the idea.

Also nyonyo, I am NOT insinuating that the lyrics are meant to be homosexual.... I'm pointing out that it's so easy to be twisted that way, perhaps way too easy considering what's at stake for Sony, why select this track?


As someone who has never heard any version of this song and hearing it for the first time ever today, I have to be honest and say my first thought was that the song had homosexual overtones :?  This song release did seem odd to me.

Two things immediately popped into my head after hearing this....

1) the allegations Arnold Kleins assistant made about being Michael's gay lover

2) how Michael was upset over how the singles were released on the Invincible album back in 2001, which I think in part sparked that little controversy with Sony (not sure why that popped into my head, but it did).


The fact that the art cover for the song is ambiguous (It could have included a head shot of a man and woman to clear up any confusion) but the fact they chose not to, also makes me wonder if Sony isn't targeting a gay audience subliminally at the expense of Michael's reputation.

The song and the way it's being presented is leaving it to wide open for interpretation (IMO).  I've never heard the song before now and don't know the history behind it's making, so I have no bias one way or the other, this was just my intial impression.

At first, I didn't understand Will.I.ams comment about this song release being "disrespectful" until now...and now I see there are multiple layers to his statement.


I do believe this album is another version of a hoax or another phase of it. Because so far nothing about this album is what it seems. So I have to agree. :|
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: MJonmind on November 17, 2010, 01:49:27 AM
Michael, I know is --alive.  But now I'm wondering if there truly is a major war going on between 2 parties, behind the scenes.  I'm starting to feel a little sick to my stomach. I hope things will become clearer. TS please help! :?  :(  :shock:
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: bec on November 17, 2010, 01:54:20 AM
Snoopy I was starting to think I was alone in this. I'm glad you noticed too. It was also an immediate connection I made, and I have never thought of MJ as gay! Not that I would care, I've just never gotten a vibe in that direction to have a preconceived notion from.

But the gay audience is minute, really super tiny. Considering gays make up ~10% of the population, and certainly not all gay people like the same music, so we're talking a small cross section of 10% of the population? I don't think market targeting makes much sense here either, but it's an interesting thought.
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: simalves on November 17, 2010, 02:10:25 AM
I think our narrow mindedness makes us think of homosexual overtones. Music is not all about sex, at least Michael's music isn't. Michael mostly spoke about healing the world, and to me this song is just about that.

The first thing that comes to my mind is it could represent soldiers at war relying on each other or people helping one another, like maybe a charity extending a helping hand, rehabilitation for those who have lost families and homes, etc.

To me this is a very heal the world goodfeel type of song, and to insinuate it is something else, is really disrespectful to the message. I know there are hate messages posted on youtube, but for every negative there are 10 or 20 more positive comments. Don't concentrate on the small negative percentage, cos if we start doubting the MAN who will trust him?
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: Snoopy71 on November 17, 2010, 02:18:09 AM
Quote from: "bec"
Snoopy I was starting to think I was alone in this. I'm glad you noticed too. It was also an immediate connection I made, and I have never thought of MJ as gay! Not that I would care, I've just never gotten a vibe in that direction to have a preconceived notion from.

But the gay audience is minute, really super tiny. Considering gays make up ~10% of the population, and certainly not all gay people like the same music, so we're talking a small cross section of 10% of the population? I don't think market targeting makes much sense here either, but it's an interesting thought.


I personally don't care if Michael is straight, gay, bi-sexual or metro sexual...that's his business, I just dissect what information is presented to me.

I only say "targeting a gay audience" because of recent "trending media events" could fuel their motives.  Issues like same sex marriage, artists who are now "openly" gay like George Michael or Ricky Martin etc...

Akon must have sensed the reception of this song would raise eyebrows eventually because of his need to "prove he is not gay" in the media.

So then you are left with the lingering question...what's this song and its release really all about?  :?:
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: bec on November 17, 2010, 02:24:13 AM
Quote from: "simalves"
I think our narrow mindedness makes us think of homosexual overtones. Music is not all about sex, at least Michael's music isn't. Michael mostly spoke about healing the world, and to me this song is just about that.

And by our you mean mine since you went on to say you don't think of it that way.

No. Please don't call me narrow minded or anyone who agrees with me narrow minded. That's not productive to the situation. I'm trying to have an honest, straightforward, grown up conversation on the subject, assuming we can all be adults without thinly veiled insults thrown around if someone doesn't agree.

Just say you don't agree. That's fine. I'd like to exchange ideas, not throw darts.

Ps. simalves, I have complete faith in the man. I am fairly certain there's a plan here, as I said in the OP. I enjoy trying to decipher it.
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: bec on November 17, 2010, 02:35:06 AM
Quote from: "Snoopy71"
Quote from: "bec"
Snoopy I was starting to think I was alone in this. I'm glad you noticed too. It was also an immediate connection I made, and I have never thought of MJ as gay! Not that I would care, I've just never gotten a vibe in that direction to have a preconceived notion from.

But the gay audience is minute, really super tiny. Considering gays make up ~10% of the population, and certainly not all gay people like the same music, so we're talking a small cross section of 10% of the population? I don't think market targeting makes much sense here either, but it's an interesting thought.


I personally don't care if Michael is straight, gay, bi-sexual or metro sexual...that's his business, I just dissect what information is presented to me.

I only say "targeting a gay audience" because of recent "trending media events" could fuel their motives.  Issues like same sex marriage, artists who are now "openly" gay like George Michael or Ricky Martin etc...

Akon must have sensed the reception of this song would raise eyebrows eventually because of his need to "prove he is not gay" in the media.

So then you are left with the lingering question...what's this song and its release really all about?  :?:

Interesting and looks like you hit the nail on the head.

What is it all about? What's the album all about? Certainly strange how they are going about it. It's as if it's not a very good set of tracks. Why pay $250 mil for mediocre music from an embattled dead pop icon.... and then go about promoting it (or not) like this?

It's just all off. It fits right in with the hoax, in any number of scenarios... and seems to fit into "dead MJ reality" not at all... almost seems to good to be true.
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: *Mo* on November 17, 2010, 02:48:13 AM

What is interesting here is that Hold My Hand was released almost at the same time the Beatles hit i-Tunes (who doesn't know their hit I Want To Hold Your Hand?) and the announcement of the official Prince William / Kate Middleton engagement.  Prince William revealed he asked Kate's father for her hand in marriage.

Marriage proposal -> asking for a woman's hand in marriage -> I Wanna Hold Your Hand -> Hold My Hand.

When you take a good look at this image, you can clearly see an "M" in it:

(http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/download/file.php?id=10984)

The "M" of Marriage..?
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: robd on November 17, 2010, 03:04:00 AM
Personally I don't think the track is weak, I like it alot, the message I get from the song is to love, pure and simple, L.O.V.E. If you love someone you hold their hand, gives you a warm feeling of not being alone.

Maybe my ears are playing tricks with me, but at the start of the song I hear "I'm alive" and at the end I also hear "home again" instead of "hold my hand".

Remember MJ loves to create controversy and get the world talking about him ... this album is doing exactly that.
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: simalves on November 17, 2010, 03:13:38 AM
Okay @Bec I did not mean your narrow mindedness, that is why I said our.

I read the comments on youtube and I know what the OP means, that it has a chance to be misconstrued and so they should not have used this song. You must understand that there are many haters out there, so they will twist and turn any good song of Michael's into something negative, just so that he does not succeed. You must have read the bad comments about Do you know where your children are too.

There have been many male duets before (like bridge over troubled water) and none of them have ever been homosexual - so why should we allow the haters to make us feel that way. Akon is definitely not gay so maybe we just need to nullify the negativity to this song. Remember how simple Enid Blyton books have been twisted saying that Noddy was gay when she just meant to use the word as happy?

Thanks to TMZ we also have confirmation of the theme for this video - it isn't gay at all. And now people will make fun of the no hands guy, but I am sure the video will show that those who can't stretch their hand out will be embraced.
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: Snoopy71 on November 17, 2010, 03:17:27 AM
Quote from: "robd"
Personally I don't think the track is weak, I like it alot, the message I get from the song is to love, pure and simple, L.O.V.E. If you love someone you hold their hand, gives you a warm feeling of not being alone.

Maybe my ears are playing tricks with me, but at the start of the song I hear "I'm alive" and at the end I also hear "home again" instead of "hold my hand".

Remember MJ loves to create controversy and get the world talking about him ... this album is doing exactly that.
[/b][/u]


Yeah, you aren't kidding on that one! WOW :shock:
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: Snoopy71 on November 17, 2010, 03:38:11 AM
Quote from: "simalves"
Okay @Bec I did not mean your narrow mindedness, that is why I said our.

I read the comments on youtube and I know what the OP means, that it has a chance to be misconstrued and so they should not have used this song. You must understand that there are many haters out there, so they will twist and turn any good song of Michael's into something negative, just so that he does not succeed. You must have read the bad comments about Do you know where your children are too.

There have been many male duets before (like bridge over troubled water) and none of them have ever been homosexual - so why should we allow the haters to make us feel that way. Akon is definitely not gay so maybe we just need to nullify the negativity to this song. Remember how simple Enid Blyton books have been twisted saying that Noddy was gay when she just meant to use the word as happy?

Thanks to TMZ we also have confirmation of the theme for this video - it isn't gay at all. And now people will make fun of the no hands guy, but I am sure the video will show that those who can't stretch their hand out will be embraced.
[/u]

It's an interesting theme....trying to hold hands with someone who doesn't have one. I know this from personal experience because a friend of mine is an amputee (both hands and both legs up to the knee)...and most people are afraid to touch her or feel uncomfortable around her. I hold her "hand" and embrace her all the time and I can tell it makes a difference in how she feels about her situation. I think people will be less likely to mock the perception of the song if they did see the video in this way....but yes you will have some people who will make fun of it just because. :roll:


Another thing that got me to thinking about this whole "hand holding" was on Michael's Invincible album the song "Whatever happens"...he repeatedly says "don't let go of my hand"...which I would take to mean, that even if you don't have a "hand" or are reaching out for something that isn't there, hold on to what you can, don't let go and have faith.

One thing is for sure there are many ways to interpret this song and it's release...whether it's gay or humanitarian...if the "M" on the art is for "marriage" or "Michael"...there are several layered meanings...which makes me think this album is part of the hoax...there's a bigger message to all this.
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: LovelyLurker on November 17, 2010, 04:53:15 AM
Have you people lost your minds?????   This song was leaked 2 yrs ago and is nothing but a lovley  lovely song! I have not read all the post but are you people nuts !!

This is a song that sent chills up my spine the first time I heard it and as I have it on my ipod I have listened to it over and over again and it is just a SONG....a very nice song......a very lovely song by two people who respected one another and wanted to collaberate on a song together.

It is a great song for goodness sake just listen to the song and enjoy it. Who cares about a freaking picture ( which is very nice in my opinion)  

Stop now and go to bed and get up in the morning and stop trying to see things where there are no things to see .  Just my opinion
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: truthprevails on November 17, 2010, 07:20:36 AM
I too see HMH as a lovely song and not much else.  MJ has dueted with Freddie Mercury, Eddie Murphy, Lenny Kravitz & wanted to duet with Prince at one point.  He also worked with Michael Jordan in "Jam"... All of this doesn't mean anything - other than the fact that MJ liked/likes to collaborate.  As for the meaning of the album, I don't even want to think about it before the album comes out.

I'm a little intrigued by the following: If we assume MJ is alive, why do we keep talking about "the estate" making decisions?  An "estate" only exists when a person has died.  But wouldn't MJ be making all the decisions if he were/is alive?  And if so, would that contract with Sony exist at all?  Couldn't MJ find other ways to release his albums?!  He could have his own record company!  MJ wanted to release himself from Sony, to have nothing to do with it... I'm very puzzled about this, and am surprised that more people aren't discussing this. And NO, MJ doesn't own half of Sony (I mean, it's very unlikely); he only owns 50% of the Sony/ATV catalog, which is a part (only a part) of Sony Music Entertainment - which in turn is a small part of "Sony".
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: Snoopy71 on November 17, 2010, 08:34:02 AM
Quote from: "LovelyLurker"
Have you people lost your minds????? (Firstly, no need to be rude- everyone has an opinion just like you, which is why we came here to express it-just like you)  This song was leaked 2 yrs ago and is nothing but a lovley  lovely song!

I have not read all the post but are you people nuts !!
(Second, you may want to try to do this first before making a comment, if you had read any of it, you'd understand the purpose of the thread)

This is a song that sent chills up my spine the first time I heard it and as I have it on my ipod I have listened to it over and over again and it is just a SONG....a very nice song......a very lovely song by two people who respected one another and wanted to collaberate on a song together. (You are right it is a lovely song-but that's not what this thread is about)

It is a great song for goodness sake just listen to the song and enjoy it. Who cares about a freaking picture (The visual representation of a song is just as important as the song itself, it can set the tone of its meaning)

Stop now and go to bed and get up in the morning and stop trying to see things where there are no things to see .  (Again, no need to be rude, If you yourself are comfortable in your life to only see the surface of things, then that's your perogative, but don't berate others who choose to dig deeper.)

Just my opinion
[/u](If you share this in a respectful manner, more people are apt to listen to your point of view. ;) )
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: suspicious mind on November 17, 2010, 08:35:49 AM
Quote from: "Serenitys_Dream"
I am going to disagree with you on this. I love the song and that picture is of a man on the left holding the hand of a woman on the right.
The bodies are shaped differently, the body on the left has muscles...masculine looking and the arm on the right is more slender, the hand appears smaller and more feminine, look at the wrist. All only IMO of course.

[attachment=0:15v3lazo]HMH.jpg[/attachment:15v3lazo]

hmmm feminine body with no waisteline ;)
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on November 17, 2010, 08:40:18 AM
Quote from: "Serenitys_Dream"
I am going to disagree with you on this. I love the song and that picture is of a man on the left holding the hand of a woman on the right.
The bodies are shaped differently, the body on the left has muscles...masculine looking and the arm on the right is more slender, the hand appears smaller and more feminine, look at the wrist. All only IMO of course.

[attachment=0:18jhlrkz]HMH.jpg[/attachment:18jhlrkz]


Yes it is a man and a woman holding hands, and also It makes the letter M.. for Michael..
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: Snoopy71 on November 17, 2010, 08:44:33 AM
Quote from: "suspicious mind"
Quote from: "Serenitys_Dream"
I am going to disagree with you on this. I love the song and that picture is of a man on the left holding the hand of a woman on the right.
The bodies are shaped differently, the body on the left has muscles...masculine looking and the arm on the right is more slender, the hand appears smaller and more feminine, look at the wrist. All only IMO of course.

[attachment=0:1bnjgz6z]HMH.jpg[/attachment:1bnjgz6z]

hmmm feminine body with no waisteline ;)


To me this could have been clarified if they had shown a full body silhouette (head to toe) - then you would know conclusively it is a man and woman. But they did not do this, so it seems it was very intentional that the wanted anyone looking at it to get a "different meaning" out of the song, something more than just the simple act of holding hands.  People have commented that this song could represent humanitarian or brotherly love---so then if you take that meaning from it, why would they show just a picture of a man and woman's silhouette holding hands which would indicate it is a "romantic song" instead? You can't have it both ways.... :?

It's like his song "Leave Me Alone"- the video was about Michael being harrassed by the media and all the things they critcized him for, yet the lyrics of the song are about a woman.  So you can't conclude "Hold my hand" is one dimensional...

I think the artwork related to this album is going to be just as interesting as the songs themselves. and there is more to this song than it seems.
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: JMseesMJ on November 17, 2010, 09:00:40 AM
To me it sounds like a calming, soothing song which symbolically could stand for us and Michael, he's holding hands with us, leading the way to the light. No matter when it actually was leaked first, it just fits into the phase of the whole hoax ( upcoming controversy ) we are in right now. I don't see any gay context or connection.  
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: jacilovesmichael on November 17, 2010, 09:15:39 AM
Thanks for all your insight on this, guys. I had heard the original version of this song a long time ago, so when I heard the version with MJ I was kind of disappointed that it sounded exactly like the original. Nothing new. Not a bad song, but I would have to agree with it being somewhat "weak" (in MJ standards, which are high). I didn't initially get the homosexual vibe, BUT...I just remembered an interesting convo I had with a friend the other day about the new song "Do you know where your children are". I sent the link to my friend in Chicago to check it out. He said he'd have to listen to it a bit later but he asked me what it was called. When I told him the title, he's like "whoa, really? that's an interesting choice for a title..." hinting towards the child molestation charges. The song itself is simply amazing and not creepy in any way, but certainly someone had to realize that giving it that title would raise some eyebrows unfortunately. Perhaps that is the point though.
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: suspicious mind on November 17, 2010, 09:18:38 AM
Quote from: "Snoopy71"
Quote from: "suspicious mind"
Quote from: "Serenitys_Dream"
I am going to disagree with you on this. I love the song and that picture is of a man on the left holding the hand of a woman on the right.
The bodies are shaped differently, the body on the left has muscles...masculine looking and the arm on the right is more slender, the hand appears smaller and more feminine, look at the wrist. All only IMO of course.

[attachment=0:1gag2ys2]HMH.jpg[/attachment:1gag2ys2]

hmmm feminine body with no waisteline ;)


To me this could have been clarified if they had shown a full body silhouette (head to toe) - then you would know conclusively it is a man and woman. But they did not do this, so it seems it was very intentional that the wanted anyone looking at it to get a "different meaning" out of the song, something more than just the simple act of holding hands.  People have commented that this song could represent humanitarian or brotherly love---so then if you take that meaning from it, why would they show just a picture of a man and woman's silhouette holding hands which would indicate it is a "romantic song" instead? You can't have it both ways.... :?

It's like his song "Leave Me Alone"- the video was about Michael being harrassed by the media and all the things they critcized him for, yet the lyrics of the song are about a woman.  So you can't conclude "Hold my hand" is one dimensional...

I think the artwork related to this album is going to be just as interesting as the songs themselves. and there is more to this song than it seems.

so maybe we can all look at anything and see if differently according to our preconcieved notions?
i am off to look at leave me alone again :D
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: peterpanswendy on November 17, 2010, 09:44:08 AM
I have personally never gotten any homosexual vibes from this song EVER. There's absolutely nothing in this song that insinuates that. I hate how people don't hear "she" "girl" etc and come to wild conclusions. I value everyone's opinion, don't get me wrong but in MY opinion, there's nothing gay. I've already heard crazy tabloid junk about this song on the web, so sad.
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: Snoopy71 on November 17, 2010, 09:50:57 AM
Quote from:  so maybe we can all look at anything and see if differently according to our preconcieved notions?
i am off to look at leave me alone again [/quote


(I realize I'm getting off topic here, but bear with me)

It's like the song Michael did with Lenny Kravitz, "Another Day". If you had no artwork to look at or video to interpret it, just based on the lyrics what would you assume the song to mean?

Here is some of the lyrics: (courtesy of directlyrics.com)

My life has taken me beyond the planets and the stars
And you’re the only one that could take me this far
I’ll be forever searching for your love

(Huhhh-Ooh)

[CHORUS]
I walked away but I was wrong
(I can't make it another day)
You’re the one that keeps me strong
(I can't make it another day)
You’re the fire that keeps me warm
(I can't make it another day)
How did I get through this storm?
(I can't make it another day without your love)

(Hoohoo)
(Come on now!)

At night, I pray before I sleep in hope of finding you
(finding you)
I've opened up my heart to let you to come through
I'll be forever searching for your love
(Huhhh-ooooh)

[CHORUS]
I walked away but I was wrong
(I can't make it another day)
You’re the one that keeps me strong
(I can't make it another day)
You’re the fire that keeps me warm
(I can't make it another day)
How did I get through this storm?
(I can't make it another day without your love)


Now imagine this song paired with the 'Hold my hand" picture....would you question the meaning behind the song?

How about if it was a picture of Christ on the cross...would the song take on a different meaning then?

How about if you saw a video, showing all of Michael's fans all around the world searching for him, but he's hidden away. He can see us but we can't see him and he's singing this song...does the meaning of the song change then too?

I hope I'm getting my  point across  :? ...the visual presentation really affects how you percieve something and can alter it's meaning. So yeah, something literal can be percieved many different ways.
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: truthprevails on November 17, 2010, 09:53:12 AM
Quote from: "jacilovesmichael"
Thanks for all your insight on this, guys. I had heard the original version of this song a long time ago, so when I heard the version with MJ I was kind of disappointed that it sounded exactly like the original. Nothing new. Not a bad song, but I would have to agree with it being somewhat "weak" (in MJ standards, which are high). I didn't initially get the homosexual vibe, BUT...I just remembered an interesting convo I had with a friend the other day about the new song "Do you know where your children are". I sent the link to my friend in Chicago to check it out. He said he'd have to listen to it a bit later but he asked me what it was called. When I told him the title, he's like "whoa, really? that's an interesting choice for a title..." hinting towards the child molestation charges. The song itself is simply amazing and not creepy in any way, but certainly someone had to realize that giving it that title would raise some eyebrows unfortunately. Perhaps that is the point though.

I love that song, "Do You Know Where Your Children Are", but it's not on the album tracklist.  The thing is, if MJ were to always care about anything that anyone might think of his songs or art, he'd never do anything!  Some people always make certain connections or take things out of context or misconstrue them... TDCAU got Michael accused of being anti-semite!  Another time someone took 1 poem, just 1, from "Dancing the Dream" - and I believe this was quite recently - and wrote an article making the point that it was creepy!  Now anyone who's read that book should see that it's just a beautiful collection of poems and essays and there's nothing creepy about it.  But, unfortunately, some people's minds are pretty perverse (which MJ's mind wasn't).
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: truthprevails on November 17, 2010, 09:58:16 AM
Quote from: "peterpanswendy"
I have personally never gotten any homosexual vibes from this song EVER. There's absolutely nothing in this song that insinuates that. I hate how people don't hear "she" "girl" etc and come to wild conclusions. I value everyone's opinion, don't get me wrong but in MY opinion, there's nothing gay. I've already heard crazy tabloid junk about this song on the web, so sad.

Yes, very sad... And it's not just "tabloid junk"... There are people whose MINDS work that way... They're always after juicy stuff to gossip about.  They don't give a damn about the essence/substance of things.
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: suspicious mind on November 17, 2010, 10:03:01 AM
Quote from: "Snoopy71"
Quote from:  so maybe we can all look at anything and see if differently according to our preconcieved notions?
i am off to look at leave me alone again [/quote


(I realize I'm getting off topic here, but bear with me)

It's like the song Michael did with Lenny Kravitz, "Another Day". If you had no artwork to look at or video to interpret it, just based on the lyrics what would you assume the song to mean?

Here is some of the lyrics: (courtesy of directlyrics.com)

My life has taken me beyond the planets and the stars
And you’re the only one that could take me this far
I’ll be forever searching for your love

(Huhhh-Ooh)

[CHORUS]
I walked away but I was wrong
(I can't make it another day)
You’re the one that keeps me strong
(I can't make it another day)
You’re the fire that keeps me warm
(I can't make it another day)
How did I get through this storm?
(I can't make it another day without your love)

(Hoohoo)
(Come on now!)

At night, I pray before I sleep in hope of finding you
(finding you)
I've opened up my heart to let you to come through
I'll be forever searching for your love
(Huhhh-ooooh)

[CHORUS]
I walked away but I was wrong
(I can't make it another day)
You’re the one that keeps me strong
(I can't make it another day)
You’re the fire that keeps me warm
(I can't make it another day)
How did I get through this storm?
(I can't make it another day without your love)


Now imagine this song paired with the 'Hold my hand" picture....would you question the meaning behind the song?

How about if it was a picture of Christ on the cross...would the song take on a different meaning then?

How about if you saw a video, showing all of Michael's fans all around the world searching for him, but he's hidden away. He can see us but we can't see him and he's singing this song...does the meaning of the song change then too?

I hope I'm getting my  point across  :? ...the visual presentation really affects how you percieve something and can alter it's meaning. So yeah, something literal can be percieved many different ways.



and this can extend to anything that is put in front of us.
politcal issues, social issues .

i also think the rest of the art work will be interesting.
let's not forget the cry video either no michael at all only other people holding hands
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: RK on November 17, 2010, 10:20:30 AM
Quote from: "jacilovesmichael"
Thanks for all your insight on this, guys. I had heard the original version of this song a long time ago, so when I heard the version with MJ I was kind of disappointed that it sounded exactly like the original. Nothing new. Not a bad song, but I would have to agree with it being somewhat "weak" (in MJ standards, which are high). I didn't initially get the homosexual vibe, BUT...I just remembered an interesting convo I had with a friend the other day about the new song "Do you know where your children are". I sent the link to my friend in Chicago to check it out. He said he'd have to listen to it a bit later but he asked me what it was called. When I told him the title, he's like "whoa, really? that's an interesting choice for a title..." hinting towards the child molestation charges. The song itself is simply amazing and not creepy in any way, but certainly someone had to realize that giving it that title would raise some eyebrows unfortunately. Perhaps that is the point though.
Wow, Jaci...I seemed to have a light bulb moment when reading your post. Previous to it, I was thinking that HMH was just a song. Don't try to overanalyze it....but add Do You Know Where Your Children Are and it  makes me think there are no such things as coincidences. I'm hot to have a listen to Monster too.
This has to be strategic to the hoax. It seems Mike is throwing these things in the world's face. Where it can't be ignored. I'd say our boy is understandably really pissed off. It reminds me of  Is It Scary. where he says
I'm gonna be exactly what you wanna see
It's you whose haunting me Your warning me
To be the stranger in your life
Am I amusing you or just confusing you
Am I the beast you visualize.
And if you wanna see eccentrialities I'll be grotesque before your eyes
Let them all materialize.
But if you came to see the truth and purity
It's here inside a lonely heart
So let the performance start......
As far as HMH goes, I love it. Nice song....but the controversy is on purpose....hoax purpose. I don't understand how it all will unfold, but I intend to keep watching the performance of the greatest show on earth.
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: truthprevails on November 17, 2010, 10:22:54 AM
suspicious mind:

Good point.  Seeing a picture or video with a song can change how we perceive it... but not necessarily completely.  For instance: In my mind the song YANA (You Are Not Alone) by MJ is completely divorced from the music video - which I don't like much, and I don't think goes well with the song.

As for the song "Another Day", I interpret it as someone saying they walked away from a love (any love!) that was fulfilling and inspiring, and which they now yearn after.  Love can be for Jesus, for someone like MJ, for any other person... Love isn't just "romance".

"We see the world not as it is, but as we are."
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: LOVESoldier28 on November 17, 2010, 11:09:02 AM
In the picture the way the hands are interlinked with each other makes it look like the shape of the heart that you usually see in a painting of Jesus with a gold aura emanating from it. What do you guys think?
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: simalves on November 17, 2010, 11:16:45 AM
Missed the quote but I think it is Snoopy

The reason why the woman does not have a slim waist is because then there would be no M, it would look like an undecipherable alphabet.
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: suspicious mind on November 17, 2010, 11:28:12 AM
Quote from: "truthprevails"
suspicious mind:

Good point.  Seeing a picture or video with a song can change how we perceive it... but not necessarily completely.  For instance: In my mind the song YANA (You Are Not Alone) by MJ is completely divorced from the music video - which I don't like much, and I don't think goes well with the song.

As for the song "Another Day", I interpret it as someone saying they walked away from a love (any love!) that was fulfilling and inspiring, and which they now yearn after.  Love can be for Jesus, for someone like MJ, for any other person... Love isn't just "romance".

"We see the world not as it is, but as we are."

i have not seen the lryrics for another day before your previous post but i see what you mean.
as for your are not alone. thank god someone finally said it ! i have never been able to reconcile that song and video .but i also have not been able to fit that one angry gesture into anything directed at god either. :?
i can remember the first time i saw sister act. when the nuns were singing my guy and replaceing guy with god. i was so blown away. it was so neat to me. i am so corny :lol:
we just don't think of god on a personal level . he has been made to seem so distant and he is not .
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: lynnandsofee on November 17, 2010, 11:32:01 AM
Quote from: "LovelyLurker"
Have you people lost your minds?????   This song was leaked 2 yrs ago and is nothing but a lovley  lovely song! I have not read all the post but are you people nuts !!

This is a song that sent chills up my spine the first time I heard it and as I have it on my ipod I have listened to it over and over again and it is just a SONG....a very nice song......a very lovely song by two people who respected one another and wanted to collaberate on a song together.

It is a great song for goodness sake just listen to the song and enjoy it. Who cares about a freaking picture ( which is very nice in my opinion)  

Stop now and go to bed and get up in the morning and stop trying to see things where there are no things to see .  Just my opinion
God, you are so right....I don't know what to think anymore.  I just don't understand why everytime something good happens, everyone tries to disect it into something negative.  Have we not learned yet what this man was all about???? Obviously NOT.  I can't believe this site has become what it is.  What happened????
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: Snoopy71 on November 17, 2010, 11:38:12 AM
Quote from: "simalves"
Missed the quote but I think it is Snoopy

The reason why the woman does not have a slim waist is because then there would be no M, it would look like an undecipherable alphabet.

Yeah, that was me :D  ....I see what you mean...so we are meant to see the letter moreso than the shapes? (I know that sounds weird).  If that's the case then it would tweak my perspective of it and whose behind it.
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: suspicious mind on November 17, 2010, 12:19:49 PM
Quote from: "Snoopy71"
Quote from: "simalves"
Missed the quote but I think it is Snoopy

The reason why the woman does not have a slim waist is because then there would be no M, it would look like an undecipherable alphabet.

Yeah, that was me :D  ....I see what you mean...so we are meant to see the letter moreso than the shapes? (I know that sounds weird).  If that's the case then it would tweak my perspective of it and whose behind it.

couldn't they have used two children to achieve that same effect or would that become even more controversial ?
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: truthprevails on November 17, 2010, 12:42:06 PM
Quote from: "suspicious mind"
Quote from: "Snoopy71"
Quote from: "simalves"
Missed the quote but I think it is Snoopy

The reason why the woman does not have a slim waist is because then there would be no M, it would look like an undecipherable alphabet.

Yeah, that was me :D  ....I see what you mean...so we are meant to see the letter moreso than the shapes? (I know that sounds weird).  If that's the case then it would tweak my perspective of it and whose behind it.

couldn't they have used two children to achieve that same effect or would that become even more controversial ?

I think 2 children wouldn't fit the idea of the song, which seems to be about adults (i.e. people who have some life experience).  The song says:
Cause I've been there before
And you've been there before
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: Datroot on November 17, 2010, 12:46:51 PM
As someone who has never heard any version of this song and hearing it for the first time ever today, I have to be honest and say my first thought was that the song had homosexual overtones :?  This song release did seem odd to me.

Two things immediately popped into my head after hearing this....

1) the allegations Arnold Kleins assistant made about being Michael's gay lover

2) how Michael was upset over how the singles were released on the Invincible album back in 2001, which I think in part sparked that little controversy with Sony (not sure why that popped into my head, but it did).


The fact that the art cover for the song is ambiguous (It could have included a head shot of a man and woman to clear up any confusion) but the fact they chose not to, also makes me wonder if Sony isn't targeting a gay audience subliminally at the expense of Michael's reputation.

The song and the way it's being presented is leaving it to wide open for interpretation (IMO).  I've never heard the song before now and don't know the history behind it's making, so I have no bias one way or the other, this was just my intial impression.

At first, I didn't understand Will.I.ams comment about this song release being "disrespectful" until now...and now I see there are multiple layers to his statement.


I do believe this album is another version of a hoax or another phase of it. Because so far nothing about this album is what it seems. So I have to agree. :|[/quote]

I have to agree.  When something is ambiguous and unclear, it never takes certain elements of society long to get the wrong idea.  There is definately a game plan here.
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: jacilovesmichael on November 17, 2010, 12:48:17 PM
Quote from: "RK"
Quote from: "jacilovesmichael"
Thanks for all your insight on this, guys. I had heard the original version of this song a long time ago, so when I heard the version with MJ I was kind of disappointed that it sounded exactly like the original. Nothing new. Not a bad song, but I would have to agree with it being somewhat "weak" (in MJ standards, which are high). I didn't initially get the homosexual vibe, BUT...I just remembered an interesting convo I had with a friend the other day about the new song "Do you know where your children are". I sent the link to my friend in Chicago to check it out. He said he'd have to listen to it a bit later but he asked me what it was called. When I told him the title, he's like "whoa, really? that's an interesting choice for a title..." hinting towards the child molestation charges. The song itself is simply amazing and not creepy in any way, but certainly someone had to realize that giving it that title would raise some eyebrows unfortunately. Perhaps that is the point though.
Wow, Jaci...I seemed to have a light bulb moment when reading your post. Previous to it, I was thinking that HMH was just a song. Don't try to overanalyze it....but add Do You Know Where Your Children Are and it  makes me think there are no such things as coincidences. I'm hot to have a listen to Monster too.
This has to be strategic to the hoax. It seems Mike is throwing these things in the world's face. Where it can't be ignored. I'd say our boy is understandably really pissed off. It reminds me of  Is It Scary. where he says
I'm gonna be exactly what you wanna see
It's you whose haunting me Your warning me
To be the stranger in your life
Am I amusing you or just confusing you
Am I the beast you visualize.
And if you wanna see eccentrialities I'll be grotesque before your eyes
Let them all materialize.
But if you came to see the truth and purity
It's here inside a lonely heart
So let the performance start......
As far as HMH goes, I love it. Nice song....but the controversy is on purpose....hoax purpose. I don't understand how it all will unfold, but I intend to keep watching the performance of the greatest show on earth.

That's what I'm thinking too! It all has to be strategic. I didn't think of any of those negative things about these songs, but I simply know that some OTHER people will. And those lyrics you pointed out show exactly what I mean.
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: Snoopy71 on November 17, 2010, 12:51:26 PM
Quote from: "suspicious mind"
Quote from: "Snoopy71"
Quote from: "simalves"
Missed the quote but I think it is Snoopy

The reason why the woman does not have a slim waist is because then there would be no M, it would look like an undecipherable alphabet.

Yeah, that was me :D  ....I see what you mean...so we are meant to see the letter moreso than the shapes? (I know that sounds weird).  If that's the case then it would tweak my perspective of it and whose behind it.

couldn't they have used two children to achieve that same effect or would that become even more controversial ?

Well, see that's the thing!...Thank you for that.... if they did do that, then it seems weird to have a "grown-up" song with kids holding hands on the cover.  I know people are getting all upset about suggesting a "gay" undertone to it, but how it's presented that can make you percieve it a certain way. If they did use two little kids, then what? What would people be saying then? would they be confused about  the context of the song?

But if you hear the song and see the single cover, the outward observer is going to take it for the "literal"...they aren't seeing an "M" for Michael or thinking of it in hoax terms. They hear two men singing an ambiguous love song and see an ambiguous art cover...what conclusion are they going to naturally come to?

(by ambiguous I mean there is no gender reference)

check out the attached picture...you tell me if this is a man and woman holding hands or two men? :geek:
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: Datroot on November 17, 2010, 12:52:35 PM
When I hear the song I don't hear negativity but I do when I look at the cover.  Only because it can be taken two ways - I think the ambiguity speaks for itself.
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: Snoopy71 on November 17, 2010, 01:02:30 PM
Quote from: "Datroot"
I have to agree.  When something is ambiguous and unclear, it never takes certain elements of society long to get the wrong idea.  There is definately a game plan here.

Thank you!...that's all I was trying to say... it's sad that society thinks that way, but it's real.

That was my "knee jerk" reaction to first hearing the song and seeing this cover.  It's no different than say seeing two women kissing and hugging each other on the street.  My first "knee jerk" reaction would be to think they were gay...when in fact they could have been a mother - daughter. Things aren't always so obvious until they are explained or researched and sadly not alot of people are going to research such things...they are just going to go on their initial assumption.

I feel like I'm preaching to the choir here because if people are here reading these forum threads, they obviously "get it"....they "see" things differently already...you know the meaning behind things Michael does....that's not true for everyone else.

maybe this is part of the plan to re educate people's minds...but I've honestly never had that reaction to any of Michael's other songs he's collaborated on. Go figure  :|
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: Datroot on November 17, 2010, 01:06:28 PM
Quote from: "Snoopy71"
Quote from: "Datroot"
I have to agree.  When something is ambiguous and unclear, it never takes certain elements of society long to get the wrong idea.  There is definately a game plan here.

Thank you!...that's all I was trying to say... it's sad that society thinks that way, but it's real.

That was my "knee jerk" reaction to first hearing the song and seeing this cover.  It's no different than say seeing two women kiss and hug each other on the street.  My first "knee jerk" reaction would be to think they were gay...when in fact they could have been a mother - daughter. Things aren't always so obvious until they are explained or researched and sadly not alot of people are going to research such things...they are just going to go on their initial assumption.

I feel like I'm preaching to the choir here because if people are here reading these forum threads, they obviously "get it"....they "see" things differently already...you know the meaning behind things Michael does....that's not true for everyone else.

Yes - you only stop to wonder when something is ambiguous - someone obviously meant it that way to make people wonder.   Its a bit like the Say Say Say cover where you could plainly see MJ and Paul McCartney holding hands - I often used to wonder why they did the cover that way.
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: simalves on November 17, 2010, 01:15:12 PM
I think it is just unfortunate. This is how much they destroyed Michael's image and why Michael would have found it a hurdle to release music all these years. I think a lot of songs can now be misinterpreted and all the parody songs come to mind.

If there were no allegations, would people think this about his song. If people are questioning this track, they are the ones who refuse his legacy to be stain free. They are constantly trying to insinuate all sorts of negative things about him. I am just glad that on youtube where the views are going up so fast, there are just 2% listeners who think this track is bad. And we the 98*% can surely drown them out. We owe it to Michael.

I would say just ignore the negativity and try to spread positivity. A thread like this on this forum means that we are doubting Michael, why should we be concerned about it having a gay vibe, do we believe he was gay? And even if he was, would we love him less??

Even Michael can make mistakes, maybe he meant this song and the picture to just be one of brotherly love, he must now be upset that even part of the Michael's army of love doubt his actions.
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: simalves on November 17, 2010, 01:16:41 PM
Quote from: "Datroot"
Quote from: "Snoopy71"
Quote from: "Datroot"
I have to agree.  When something is ambiguous and unclear, it never takes certain elements of society long to get the wrong idea.  There is definately a game plan here.

Thank you!...that's all I was trying to say... it's sad that society thinks that way, but it's real.

That was my "knee jerk" reaction to first hearing the song and seeing this cover.  It's no different than say seeing two women kiss and hug each other on the street.  My first "knee jerk" reaction would be to think they were gay...when in fact they could have been a mother - daughter. Things aren't always so obvious until they are explained or researched and sadly not alot of people are going to research such things...they are just going to go on their initial assumption.

I feel like I'm preaching to the choir here because if people are here reading these forum threads, they obviously "get it"....they "see" things differently already...you know the meaning behind things Michael does....that's not true for everyone else.

Yes - you only stop to wonder when something is ambiguous - someone obviously meant it that way to make people wonder.   Its a bit like the Say Say Say cover where you could plainly see MJ and Paul McCartney holding hands - I often used to wonder why they did the cover that way.

I don't think the world was that corrupt those days. Right now everything anyone does or says has a double meaning and I am tired of it already.
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: Datroot on November 17, 2010, 01:18:18 PM
Response to Simsalves post before last -

We don't doubt - we are just acknowledging that there are people out there who will and the ambiguity on the cover will only add to it.  Personally, I don't hear any ambiguity in the song itself - just on the cover - which is open to interpretation.  I think most, if not all of us here don't doubt MJ at all.
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: suspicious mind on November 17, 2010, 03:04:12 PM
anyone considered the possibilty of friendship turned romance .make any sense?
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: peterpanswendy on November 17, 2010, 03:04:34 PM
I looked further into this, and I still see nothing gay about this at all. Men do songs together all the time, sometimes with disgusting lyrics, but nobody ever has anything to say about that. Nothing about this song or cover looks or sounds gay. It doesn't even look like two men, even if it was, it's not a big deal, I hold hands with friends of the same gender all the time, am I a lesbian now? No, not at all. I love men. That's just me and my friends loving each other and having fun together. Plus, if they were gay, which I do NOT believe to be true, so what, what does this have to do with anything? I know we are some hardcore investigators and we look into everything, but this is just off the wall, no pun intended. And narrow-minded. Just my opinion

XOXO
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: trublu on November 17, 2010, 03:28:18 PM
You know bec, I looked at the cover and the first thing I thought was, ok that makes an M and a V.

Second thing I thought was, who are those two guys holding hands?
Though I agree with Serenity that on a closer inspection one wrist is more feminine.

Now, my thought is, either

1) Sony really are the bad guys and are trying to make Michael look gay (although why ANYONE would have a problem if he WAS gay is beyond me-hello! it's 2010 not the stone age!!) and releasing the album and simoutaneously sabotaging Michaels name (this theory doesn't make too much sense to me)

2) Michael is behind it and wants to shake up peoples perceptions or even just cause controversy (possible)

3) We are reading too much into it. (possible)

Right now my brain is a mushy fuzzy mess so who knows.  :lol:
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: backstager on November 17, 2010, 04:27:22 PM
Its funny you bring this up. Just yesterday I played this song for my little brother, who is ten years old, from YouTube. The very first thing out of his mouth was, "Is that supposed to be Akon and Michael holding hands?" Of course I told him no and pointed out the differences of the two.

My personal opinion is he's stirring up controversy, as usual. I don't think Sony is out to get him or any of that jazz. I just think he's doing what he used to do, just without people knowing he's behind it. Know what I mean?
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: truthprevails on November 17, 2010, 04:59:36 PM
Quote from: "peterpanswendy"
I looked further into this, and I still see nothing gay about this at all. Men do songs together all the time, sometimes with disgusting lyrics, but nobody ever has anything to say about that. Nothing about this song or cover looks or sounds gay. It doesn't even look like two men, even if it was, it's not a big deal, I hold hands with friends of the same gender all the time, am I a lesbian now? No, not at all. I love men. That's just me and my friends loving each other and having fun together. Plus, if they were gay, which I do NOT believe to be true, so what, what does this have to do with anything? I know we are some hardcore investigators and we look into everything, but this is just off the wall, no pun intended. And narrow-minded. Just my opinion

XOXO

I agree with the point that it shouldn't matter whether it's 2 men or 2 women or a parent and child... It's 2 people holding hands - since when is that wrong/bad, and WHY?!  There's nothing wrong with being gay, so why is anyone talking about "negativity" at all?

WE are the ones creating the controversy - ANY controversy - not MJ or anyone else.  If we were indifferent to MJ, this forum would not exist and we wouldn't be here (regardless of what MJ did or does)... It's our reactions to people's words and actions that create controversy.  MJ's life simply held a mirror onto us... in which we got and still get reflected.  That's all.  No one ever held a gun to our heads telling us what to think or do about MJ, if anything.  

This cover is, to me, a simple M and 2 people holding hands... I don't think "Oh wait, let me figure out who exactly that is!" And if this cover happened pre 6/25/2009, would we dissect it so much?

Other artists have dabbled in ambiguity of all sorts - including Prince, Freddie Mercury... WHY NOT?  Seems to make people go nuts, so it's a good marketing ploy. :D
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: truthprevails on November 17, 2010, 05:09:50 PM
Another thought:
MJ was someone who wanted to break barriers and walls of all kinds.  He promoted equality through his songs and everything else he did in life... He took on the issue of color, race, and nationality.  What if now he's taking on the issue of gay-ness, trying to send out a message that "it don't matter if you're straight or gay"?  There was a recent incident in the U.S. where a gay boy (college student) ended up committing suicide... Remember that Michael was sensitive to people's pain and sometimes wrote songs inspired by real stories of real people (Bad, Gone Too Soon)?  Maybe this is just another example of that.  Now I know HMH was written in 2007 or so, but maybe the cover was created recently and is ambiguous on purpose... And maybe it IS about gay-ness.  (I don't know, of course.  This is a possible theory.)
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: looking4truth on November 17, 2010, 08:21:58 PM
I am not going to say I totally disagree with bec because I did think of the homosexual overtones but I thought of that when I heard the demo. I figured that is not what they meant obviously but I did think of it. I just laughed it off and enjoyed the song. However, I'm actually surprise, no one didn't think that this could simply be a continuation of Michael's last single and video from Invincible--Cry. Throughout the video, there are people of different backgrounds, races, cultures, holding hands. It is also interesting that Michael is NOT in this video. It seems to be a prelude to this adventure we are on now. I think the message of Cry and Hold My Hand is similar and goes along with this adventure of L.O.V.E. and truth. I think the homosexual overtones could just be a coincidence? It's not there with Cry so I would say it could be just be our interpretations getting in the way of the important message or maybe you guys are onto something...what exactly...not sure. The video for Cry is below.

[youtube:o7z34xl1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj3MfUR35CM[/youtube:o7z34xl1]
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: DREAMSandTRUTH on November 17, 2010, 08:24:54 PM
Sorry guys, I didn't read all the posts, just the first page.

I also think that the woman on the cover could look more womanly, but if they make an hourglass figure for her, the letter M wouldn't be that obvious...

And I also think it can be good that we cannot really decide whether it's a woman on the right or not, because IMO the main thing is that people are holding each other's hands. Any people. It symbolises that if we are connected, together we can reach much more.

I posted my opinion of this song (and this cover photo) in the other thread, but I post it here too, as it fits here:
(Basically I wrote about the hands forming a human heart).

Quote
The heart as a symbol would just fit for me to this song. When I hear this song I think of Michael's "I Have This Dream" - when he encourages people to hold each other's hands.

"I would like all of you now to take the hand of the person to the left and to the right of you. Go ahead. Right now, I mean it. Don't be shy. Do it, because it starts now. ... Now tell the person next to you that you care for them, tell them that you LOVE them. Tell them that you LOVE them! This is what makes the difference. Together we can make a change to the world, together we can help to stop racism, together we can help to stop prejudice, we can help the world live without fear, it is our only hope. Without hope we are lost. Thank you all!"

HEART symbolises LOVE, this is why I think it's possible that the form of the hands shows a heart for us, telling that LOVE is the most important thing.

You can listen to Michael's speech here:
http://www.myvideo.de/watch/6876715/Mic (http://www.myvideo.de/watch/6876715/Mic) ... _the_world

(I cannot copy-paste videos here - it doesn't work with my computer. Sorry.)

From HMH:
We're Better off being together (hold my hand)
Than being miserable alone (hold my hand)

together we can be alright

Do you guys see the similarities?
I know it's basically a love song, but artists used to create music (etc.) which can be understood differently - for being perfect for everyone's feelings. We can hear from the song which we want, we can connect them with our own lifes. So maybe this song was also written with that goal: to be able to reach everyone's feelings. But the main message to me is: together, by holding our hands (like people used to do in Catholic churches for example) and loving each other, we can do more.
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: suspicious mind on November 17, 2010, 08:27:42 PM
when i clicked on the thread and saw the cry vid picture immediately i got a flash of the the shot of kenny and the others in a circle holding hands with their heads bowed.
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: DREAMSandTRUTH on November 17, 2010, 08:34:17 PM
looking4truth, I just read your post, and realized that we basically think the same. We just brought up different examples  :)
Sorry that I read it only after writing mine...
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: DREAMSandTRUTH on November 17, 2010, 08:37:18 PM
Quote from: "suspicious mind"
when i clicked on the thread and saw the cry vid picture immediately i got a flash of the the shot of kenny and the others in a circle holding hands with their heads bowed.
Yes! :)
I only thought of the statue of the children in Neverland, but yours has way more meaning  :D
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: looking4truth on November 17, 2010, 10:00:31 PM
Quote from: "DREAMSandTRUTH"
looking4truth, I just read your post, and realized that we basically think the same. We just brought up different examples  :)
Sorry that I read it only after writing mine...

Oh you're fine! I didn't even think of that example. So many things are pointing to Michael and holding hands.  :lol:
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: Tumic Shason on November 17, 2010, 10:36:30 PM
Quote from: "nynyro"
Quote from: "Serenitys_Dream"
I am going to disagree with you on this. I love the song and that picture is of a man on the left holding the hand of a woman on the right.
The bodies are shaped differently, the body on the right has muscles...masculine looking and the arm on the right is more slender, the hand appears smaller and more feminine, look at the wrist. All only IMO of course.

[attachment=0:dye816hv]HMH.jpg[/attachment:dye816hv]

I agree with you that the  the hands are not two men.  I also don't think their was homosexual innuendo in the song.  So i disagree with that part of the OP's post.  However, the strange happenings surrounding the release of this album scream hoax.  The album and the songs on it are a message.

I feel that when people get this album, if they get this album, they will be surprised by what they get.


I AGREE WITH YOU A 100000000000000000000000%
IT IS SO OBVIOUS IT IS A MALE AND FEMALE!
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: MJonmind on November 18, 2010, 02:00:18 AM
I honestly believe this thread was a worth-while discussion, and that I think we've come very close to what Michael has in mind. IMO.

IT IS NOW I SEE AND FEEL THAT CALLING ONCE AGAIN, TO BE PART OF A MUSIC THAT WILL NOT JUST CONNECT BUT, MAKE ALL FEEL ONE, ONE IN JOY, ONE IN PAIN, ONE IN LOVE, ONE IN SERVICE AND IN CONSCIOUSNESS. MJ

Quote
by RK » Wed Nov 17, 2010 11:20 am
 This has to be strategic to the hoax. It seems Mike is throwing these things in the world's face. Where it can't be ignored. I'd say our boy is understandably really pissed off. It reminds me of Is It Scary. where he says
I'm gonna be exactly what you wanna see
It's you whose haunting me Your warning me
To be the stranger in your life
Am I amusing you or just confusing you
Am I the beast you visualize.
And if you wanna see eccentrialities I'll be grotesque before your eyes
Let them all materialize.
But if you came to see the truth and purity
It's here inside a lonely heart
So let the performance start......
As far as HMH goes, I love it. Nice song....but the controversy is on purpose....hoax purpose. I don't understand how it all will unfold, but I intend to keep watching the performance of the greatest show on earth.
Quote
suspicious mind wrote:
when i clicked on the thread and saw the cry vid picture immediately i got a flash of the the shot of kenny and the others in a circle holding hands with their heads bowed.
Quote
DREAMSandTRUTH
The heart as a symbol would just fit for me to this song. When I hear this song I think of Michael's "I Have This Dream" - when he encourages people to hold each other's hands.
"I would like all of you now to take the hand of the person to the left and to the right of you. Go ahead. Right now, I mean it. Don't be shy. Do it, because it starts now. ... Now tell the person next to you that you care for them, tell them that you LOVE them. Tell them that you LOVE them! This is what makes the difference. Together we can make a change to the world, together we can help to stop racism, together we can help to stop prejudice, we can help the world live without fear, it is our only hope. Without hope we are lost. Thank you all!"
Quote
by looking4truth » Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:21 pm
I am not going to say I totally disagree with bec because I did think of the homosexual overtones but I thought of that when I heard the demo. I figured that is not what they meant obviously but I did think of it. I just laughed it off and enjoyed the song. However, I'm actually surprise, no one didn't think that this could simply be a continuation of Michael's last single and video from Invincible--Cry. Throughout the video, there are people of different backgrounds, races, cultures, holding hands. It is also interesting that Michael is NOT in this video. It seems to be a prelude to this adventure we are on now. I think the message of Cry and Hold My Hand is similar and goes along with this adventure of L.O.V.E. and truth. I think the homosexual overtones could just be a coincidence? It's not there with Cry so I would say it could be just be our interpretations getting in the way of the important message or maybe you guys are onto something...what exactly...not sure. The video for Cry is below.
Quote
by truthprevails » Wed Nov 17, 2010 6:09 pm
Another thought:
MJ was someone who wanted to break barriers and walls of all kinds. He promoted equality through his songs and everything else he did in life... He took on the issue of color, race, and nationality. What if now he's taking on the issue of gay-ness, trying to send out a message that "it don't matter if you're straight or gay"? There was a recent incident in the U.S. where a gay boy (college student) ended up committing suicide... Remember that Michael was sensitive to people's pain and sometimes wrote songs inspired by real stories of real people (Bad, Gone Too Soon)? Maybe this is just another example of that. Now I know HMH was written in 2007 or so, but maybe the cover was created recently and is ambiguous on purpose... And maybe it IS about gay-ness. (I don't know, of course. This is a possible theory.)

Quote
by trublu » Wed Nov 17, 2010 4:28 pm
You know bec, I looked at the cover and the first thing I thought was, ok that makes an M and a V.
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: MJonmind on November 18, 2010, 02:06:10 AM
I also must say, that this afternoon as I started the car to do shopping, immediately the DJ said someone requested MJ and Akon's "Hold my Hand". So I pumped er up and that was so great. I felt so happy. I really feel people are going to love the song too!  

I know Michael's alive, I love him, and I know he knows what he's doing with these songs! :D  :oops:  :D
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: mjjglory on November 18, 2010, 03:28:49 AM
Well , I love the song very much and I never  noticed any gay hints in it . But really when I saw the  cover   I   felt  like “ wow !  what does it mean ? “
For me the explanation is  that  everything concerning Michael , his art , his talent , his life etc. has dual meaning. His intentions , his thoughts, his songs , his life  are simple from his point of view- it’s love , humanism. But when   it goes to  public and media  they immediately  start to look for some hidden meaning  and put everything  upside down.
The controvercy  surrounds Michael  all the time. We know   there is  controvercy that is intended by the author himself  for  some reason  but here we have  conrovercy  installed in our minds . Remember Breaking News, there were rumours  from the family it was not Michael ‘s voice just before the releasing of the song  and when it was released  the hot discussion started.  We were ready already to percept the song  being fake.
The  same with   HMH.  I’m   sure   the  majority of us didn’t even dare to think the song is about gay love. But now when we are given a  picture  we  start to hesitate.
The whole thing with the album shows  the fact that it’s too easy to manipulate people’s mind. This media manipulation surrounded Michael  and his art everywhere.
For me it’s one more proof he’s alive and he’s teaching us to think   first  before judge something. Things may be different from what  we see them  ! :!:
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: SoldierofLOVE on November 18, 2010, 08:20:23 PM
The original post here is something to consider, but after thinking about the song and it being chosen as the first single as a love ballad sung by two men with a gender-neutral look to the cover,   I believe it follows MJ's warrior spirit in speaking out against injustice.  Again, with his huge heart, he majestically underscores that everyone deserves love and intimacy unencumbered.   Same-sex couples could very well see this as an anthem and Michael is saying there's victory for all.  The inclusiveness of this song and artwork is a brilliant way to make a statement like only Michael can do.  And this, on the heels of the children who are hanging themselves and jumping off bridges out of desperation and despair,  Michael speaks out once again. And he speaks out as a straight man who is in solidarity with the gay community.  Why not consider this as the underlying agenda for the release of Hold My Hand?    

I don't know anything about Akon but I'm glad to see he's unafraid of being part of something like this.   It's also interesting to note that this song is released soon after Janet mentioned the anti-bullying campaign she's a part of.  I can see why it's the first song released.    There are a lot of children in pain right now and I hope they hear Michael's  message.

"JUSTICE IS WHAT LOVE LOOKS LIKE IN PUBLIC"  Cornel West
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: suspicious mind on November 21, 2010, 06:05:47 PM
Quote from: "Serenitys_Dream"
I am going to disagree with you on this. I love the song and that picture is of a man on the left holding the hand of a woman on the right.
The bodies are shaped differently, the body on the left has muscles...masculine looking and the arm on the right is more slender, the hand appears smaller and more feminine, look at the wrist. All only IMO of course.

[attachment=0:12aepmrk]HMH.jpg[/attachment:12aepmrk]

look at the background of the two hands. does anyone else see a very pregnant body there or is it time for my meds. :?
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: mjintrigue2012 on November 21, 2010, 06:18:43 PM
Quote from: "suspicious mind"
Quote from: "Serenitys_Dream"
I am going to disagree with you on this. I love the song and that picture is of a man on the left holding the hand of a woman on the right.
The bodies are shaped differently, the body on the left has muscles...masculine looking and the arm on the right is more slender, the hand appears smaller and more feminine, look at the wrist. All only IMO of course.

[attachment=0:2sq820as]HMH.jpg[/attachment:2sq820as]

look at the background of the two hands. does anyone else see a very pregnant body there or is it time for my meds. :?
I saw that too, @suspicious mind.  You are not alone -- lol!
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: lovemj on November 21, 2010, 06:42:31 PM
i can plainly see its a male and female hand look at the one on the right its a female lovely long manicured finger nails i also dont think this song is weak i love it i cant stop listening to it i love michaels voice miss him so much though hurry up mike we want you back we miss you like mad
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: suspicious mind on November 21, 2010, 06:45:52 PM
Quote from: "mjintrigue2012"
Quote from: "suspicious mind"
Quote from: "Serenitys_Dream"
I am going to disagree with you on this. I love the song and that picture is of a man on the left holding the hand of a woman on the right.
The bodies are shaped differently, the body on the left has muscles...masculine looking and the arm on the right is more slender, the hand appears smaller and more feminine, look at the wrist. All only IMO of course.

[attachment=0:owiz6co9]HMH.jpg[/attachment:owiz6co9]

look at the background of the two hands. does anyone else see a very pregnant body there or is it time for my meds. :?
I saw that too, @suspicious mind.  You are not alone -- lol!

good i hate the thought of going crazy alone ;)
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: encino_girl on November 22, 2010, 08:38:23 PM
Quote from: "Serenitys_Dream"
I am going to disagree with you on this. I love the song and that picture is of a man on the left holding the hand of a woman on the right.
The bodies are shaped differently, the body on the left has muscles...masculine looking and the arm on the right is more slender, the hand appears smaller and more feminine, look at the wrist. All only IMO of course.

[attachment=0:39h92gwn]HMH.jpg[/attachment:39h92gwn]

Besides the male and female forms, I see an 'M"... :D
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: Snoopy71 on December 01, 2010, 08:31:05 PM
Quote from: "encino_girl"
Quote from: "Serenitys_Dream"
I am going to disagree with you on this. I love the song and that picture is of a man on the left holding the hand of a woman on the right.
The bodies are shaped differently, the body on the left has muscles...masculine looking and the arm on the right is more slender, the hand appears smaller and more feminine, look at the wrist. All only IMO of course.

[attachment=2:2jvee8r4]HMH.jpg[/attachment:2jvee8r4]

Besides the male and female forms, I see an 'M"... :D



This may be coincidence, but it caught my eye while going through the "rare" picture thread...it makes me wonder about this song cover even more. Check out this picture...what does something remind you of?  :)
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: truthprevails on December 01, 2010, 08:44:57 PM
Snoopy, I imagine that any M will resemble another M.  :D
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: Snoopy71 on December 01, 2010, 10:25:22 PM
Quote from: "truthprevails"
Snoopy, I imagine that any M will resemble another M.  :D


true, very true....I only mention it because very rarely do you ever see MJ wearing a necklace...and of course he happens to be prominently wearing this one!  ;)
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: truthprevails on December 01, 2010, 10:35:59 PM
Quote from: "Snoopy71"
Quote from: "truthprevails"
Snoopy, I imagine that any M will resemble another M.  :D

true, very true....I only mention it because very rarely do you ever see MJ wearing a necklace...and of course he happens to be prominently wearing this one!  ;)

I do like that necklace, but am not sure if 50-year old MJ, with all the stuff going on in his life, would remember or think of the things he used to wear back in the day...  :?
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: nick_93 on December 01, 2010, 11:04:50 PM
A little bit off topic but I just noticed, HMH is #77 on Australian iTunes charts :lol:
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: Snoopy71 on December 02, 2010, 08:13:29 AM
Quote from: "truthprevails"
Quote from: "Snoopy71"
Quote from: "truthprevails"
Snoopy, I imagine that any M will resemble another M.  :D

true, very true....I only mention it because very rarely do you ever see MJ wearing a necklace...and of course he happens to be prominently wearing this one!  ;)

I do like that necklace, but am not sure if 50-year old MJ, with all the stuff going on in his life, would remember or think of the things he used to wear back in the day...  :?


true ...unless it had "sentimental" value (maybe a gift from a grandmother or something), then maybe he'd remember it or still has it.  It doesn't look like something he'd buy for himself since he doesn't really wear necklaces.

Again, maybe just a coincidence :)
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: IWantYouBack on December 02, 2010, 10:44:57 AM
I haven't read all the posts in this thread. Just the first and the last page. But to be honest, I think we're making something out of nothing in this thread.

Michael wrote and sang a lot of songs that were about healing the world and I think this song is just that. I think Michael wanted Akon to collaborate with him on this song so then people realize that everyone in the world, male and male, female and female, male and female, can hold hands together and create peace. Not homosexuality or sex. Just peace between countries and people in general. As he said, it's all for love. And when he says this, he doesn't mean it sexually. He just means loving each other like we're all family. Michael believed in God and in God's eyes, we're all related. We're all brothers and sisters. There's no need to fight with each other and express hatred towards one another. And that's what I think this song is about. "Things will go better if you just hold my hand."  :)
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: bec on December 02, 2010, 11:29:15 AM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/fcfbec/blondememorial.jpg)

Hold My Hand. Lol.

Is that Teddy Riley holding MJs hand at the memorial?

If so, dot connected  :D
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: Snoopy71 on December 02, 2010, 11:50:50 AM
Quote from: "bec"
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/fcfbec/blondememorial.jpg)

Hold My Hand. Lol.

Is that Teddy Riley holding MJs hand at the memorial?

If so, dot connected  :D


I think they said TR was wearing a different outfit so it probably isn't him.  BUT, the "hold my hand" idea still applies.  It's interesting how ALL THREE of these people are wearing sunglasses....just like the family.

It's a shell game....and Michael is the Magician....someone wanted these 3 people to stick out at the memorial...."hold my hand" is another piece of the puzzle.

Video theme....a person with no hands (requires prosthetics)...a disguise for what's not there, what's not real.
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: bec on December 02, 2010, 11:53:53 AM
TR's outfit from the actual memorial performance has not been confirmed.
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: PeaceLoveHappiness on December 02, 2010, 01:29:41 PM
Has anyone asked Teddy Riley where he was sitting at the Memorial?  I don't have twitter or I would ask him, but it seems to me, his answer could clear up some of the discussion here.
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: nefari on December 28, 2010, 08:34:43 PM
Apologies as I had started another thread on this and I had not seen that this one existed first. But what I was sort of shocked about is I just now noticed how the two hands joined look so much like a human heart. This has so many meanings for me, as in Michael's heart still beating maybe, and also that the two people holding hands to me look like 2 Michaels, which just drums home the twin theory more than ever IMO. Not really feeling any gay overtones to this but I'm feeling like there is something just strange with Latoya and Michael over the years. She started looking more and more like him as the years went by and I am certain they swapped places from time to time. Not sure why they would do this though. Latoya started looking not like the Latoya on the old Jacksons tv show at all. She changed more than Michael ever did. And it makes me wonder if Latoya is not who we should be trying to find out more about.
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: michaelsupporter on December 29, 2010, 04:41:39 AM
Every artist begins with a concept......a vision. I can only speak for myself and my personal interpretation of this artwork. But, for me it is an exciting piece...one that elicits great joy, hope and expectation.

Sometimes, I admit, that we can become so distracted by the details that we fail to see the whole pic. Step back, look again, and tell me what you really see? Can you see it now? If not, let your mind free and look with your heart rather than your eyes. It is there in plain sight---for everyone to see.

This image can be likened to an optical illusion. There are two darkened figures at the margins of the artwork clasping hands. However, do you see the image that is formed between the two?????? Yes, an image of a female is formed out of the space between the darkened figures and where the light is brightest---behind the clasped hands is the impregnated womb. The light of life. Life is growing within.....she (the figure) is clearly rotund. Do we dare wager when this impending birth will take place????

To me, this new life is what is most meaningful in the artwork. However, there are other elements within it that lend to its beauty and intrigue.  If you look carefully at the interlocking arms/hands you will nearly go mad trying to decipher if the darkened figures are facing the light or stepping out of the light. Could that bear any significance to the meaning? I am not certain. The interlocking arms do create the letter "M" strategically over the umbilicus. This is quite meaningful, too, and draws the eye to the light which is brightest---the embryo/fetus.

A synergistic multi-dimensional energy is created when you combine the artwork with the lyrics and music of the single. The purity and wholesomeness of simply holding hands in friendship, or in demonstration of  love, can be likened to the purity and innocence of a newborn babe. How sweet is that?

Now, how do you interpret that?
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: finfin on December 29, 2010, 05:27:45 PM
@michaelsupporter
I have just read your intriguing interpretation of the Hold My Hand artwork. You have obviously got a very artistic streak, I would never have looked at it in the way you describe as a globe that could represent a pregnant uterus, but now that you have pointed it out -  I can see it - poor observation on my part, especially as I have midwifery background, but "barbers are always bald" as they say.
Also when you describe the strange effect of the darkened figures either stepping into the light or out of the light, it reminds me of the TMZ post about the Hold My Hand music video, where MJ is seemingly in a tunnel and when turned upside down you can see him walking either towards or away from the light

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=15963#p270541 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=15963#p270541)

(http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/1238/1122michaeljacksontunne.jpg)
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: MJonmind on January 04, 2011, 11:22:18 PM
Quote from: "michaelsupporter"
Every artist begins with a concept......a vision. I can only speak for myself and my personal interpretation of this artwork. But, for me it is an exciting piece...one that elicits great joy, hope and expectation.

Sometimes, I admit, that we can become so distracted by the details that we fail to see the whole pic. Step back, look again, and tell me what you really see? Can you see it now? If not, let your mind free and look with your heart rather than your eyes. It is there in plain sight---for everyone to see.

This image can be likened to an optical illusion. There are two darkened figures at the margins of the artwork clasping hands. However, do you see the image that is formed between the two?????? Yes, an image of a female is formed out of the space between the darkened figures and where the light is brightest---behind the clasped hands is the impregnated womb. The light of life. Life is growing within.....she (the figure) is clearly rotund. Do we dare wager when this impending birth will take place????
To me, this new life is what is most meaningful in the artwork. However, there are other elements within it that lend to its beauty and intrigue.  If you look carefully at the interlocking arms/hands you will nearly go mad trying to decipher if the darkened figures are facing the light or stepping out of the light. Could that bear any significance to the meaning? I am not certain. The interlocking arms do create the letter "M" strategically over the umbilicus. This is quite meaningful, too, and draws the eye to the light which is brightest---the embryo/fetus.

A synergistic multi-dimensional energy is created when you combine the artwork with the lyrics and music of the single. The purity and wholesomeness of simply holding hands in friendship, or in demonstration of  love, can be likened to the purity and innocence of a newborn babe. How sweet is that?

Now, how do you interpret that?[/color]

This got me thinking in a slightly different direction. See the V on top of the hands and the same shape in Da Vinci's painting?
http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http ... s%3Disch:1 (http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.knowledgerush.com/wiki_image/d/d2/Wpdms_davinci_lastsupper_marymagdalene.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/The_Da_Vinci_Code/&usg=__T6Ez5uXldKuHjoXPWRmFyusAirY=&h=256&w=362&sz=35&hl=en&start=11&zoom=1&itbs=1&tbnid=M_t0F0yF2H3SFM:&tbnh=86&tbnw=121&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dleonardo%2Bda%2Bvinci,%2Bholy%2Bgrail%26hl%3Den%26gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:1)
Detail of the Last Supper by Leonardo da Vinci. As explained by Leigh Teabing to Sophie Neveu, the figure at the right hand of Jesus is not an apostle, but a woman, supposedly Mary Magdalene, who was actually his wife and pregnant with his child. The absence of a chalice is in the painting indicates that Da Vinci knew that Mary Magdalene was actually the Holy Grail (the bearer of Jesus' blood). This is reinforced by the letter "M" that is created the bodily positions of Jesus, Mary,and the male apostle upon who she is leaning.[attachment=1:3b1y9ewz]HMH[1].jpg[/attachment:3b1y9ewz][attachment=0:3b1y9ewz]Wpdms_davinci_lastsupper_marymagdalene[1].jpg[/attachment:3b1y9ewz]
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: SoldierofLOVE on January 04, 2011, 11:35:06 PM
Quote from: "michaelsupporter"
Every artist begins with a concept......a vision. I can only speak for myself and my personal interpretation of this artwork. But, for me it is an exciting piece...one that elicits great joy, hope and expectation.

Sometimes, I admit, that we can become so distracted by the details that we fail to see the whole pic. Step back, look again, and tell me what you really see? Can you see it now? If not, let your mind free and look with your heart rather than your eyes. It is there in plain sight---for everyone to see.

This image can be likened to an optical illusion. There are two darkened figures at the margins of the artwork clasping hands. However, do you see the image that is formed between the two?????? Yes, an image of a female is formed out of the space between the darkened figures and where the light is brightest---behind the clasped hands is the impregnated womb. The light of life. Life is growing within.....she (the figure) is clearly rotund. Do we dare wager when this impending birth will take place????

To me, this new life is what is most meaningful in the artwork. However, there are other elements within it that lend to its beauty and intrigue.  If you look carefully at the interlocking arms/hands you will nearly go mad trying to decipher if the darkened figures are facing the light or stepping out of the light. Could that bear any significance to the meaning? I am not certain. The interlocking arms do create the letter "M" strategically over the umbilicus. This is quite meaningful, too, and draws the eye to the light which is brightest---the embryo/fetus.

A synergistic multi-dimensional energy is created when you combine the artwork with the lyrics and music of the single. The purity and wholesomeness of simply holding hands in friendship, or in demonstration of  love, can be likened to the purity and innocence of a newborn babe. How sweet is that?

Now, how do you interpret that?


An exquisite interpretation @michaelsupporter!

Stepping in or out of the light, we shall hold on.

"Cause when it gets dark and when it gets cold we hold each other till we see the sunlight."
Title: Re: Is HMH not quite as it seems?
Post by: diggyon on January 05, 2011, 11:41:47 AM
@Bec
thanks for posting this. I bet you must be from Europe or the USA. I will be discussing men's gestures in my country in brief. Here men can hug each other an even kiss each other without being called gay. Women do the same too. So it really astonishes me a lot when I see people in other countries criticize this behavior. I remember Micheal saying in several interviews that he loves children and  and that he invites them to have some great time with him. In my country this is a very normal behavior, if the parents of these children accept the invitation. But sadly in Europe and the USA this behavior is odd an eccentric. If someone in my country kisses a child then he is called nice and a children lover. In the USA or Europe if someone kisses a child then he is called pedophile!!!!
It makes me really sad when I see people in other countries jump very quickly to the wrong conclusions. So when I first heard the song "Hold my Hand" I felt sorry for Micheal. I just had the feeling that he needs support and love from the others because he was confronted with all that hate during his last years as the King of Pop. This song also reminds me of the song "Will you be there". Micheal needs love and support and he is crying out loud  for everyone to hear that. But sadly people might get the message wrong again, as you described in your post. I never felt what you said because as I said I am not from Europe or from the USA and people in my country behave differently. But it makes me really sad when I feel that a  cry for support and love could be understood that way. No wonder MJ left the USA.
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