Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators
Hoax Investigation => Michael's Life & Clues He Left Us => Michael's features, habits & disguises => Topic started by: Hopeless on August 04, 2010, 04:36:35 AM
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Every time i look at older pics i wonder when i see the hands from Michael.
There are not much pics i could find online from the early years when i saw that he has markant long thin fingers, also so long hand, not so strong like now.
There is no reason to that change....arthritis or lupus or being older... the lenght of the fingers can't change.
I put some pics...the best i could find in the moment :
His fingers seams to be longer then the hand...very long, thin and fine, also the hand.
http://imagebank.ipcmedia.com/imageBank/j/jackson12.jpg (http://imagebank.ipcmedia.com/imageBank/j/jackson12.jpg)
http://static1.slamxhype.com/wp-content ... ixes-2.jpg (http://static1.slamxhype.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/hiroshi-fujiwara-kudo-michael-jackson-jackson-5-remixes-2.jpg)
http://www.jacksonaction.com/70s/earlyyears3.jpg (http://www.jacksonaction.com/70s/earlyyears3.jpg)
http://mjjgallery.free.fr/earlyyears/so ... t2/001.jpg (http://mjjgallery.free.fr/earlyyears/solo/photoshoots/photoshoot2/001.jpg)
http://www.jackson.ch/assets/images/winfrey-jackson.jpg (http://www.jackson.ch/assets/images/winfrey-jackson.jpg)
http://www.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http ... s%3Disch:1 (http://www.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2186/2216333910_658e67fecb.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.flickr.com/photos/kenttwitchell/2216333910/&usg=__Z0xwtnuJYLFglhflzQT0BFEJ_A0=&h=500&w=381&sz=71&hl=de&start=32&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=-f3rPYUK1mZArM:&tbnh=130&tbnw=99&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmichael%2Bjackson%2Bhands%2Bpic%26start%3D18%26um%3D1%26hl%3Dde%26sa%3DN%26rlz%3D1T4GGLL_deDE377DE377%26ndsp%3D18%26tbs%3Disch:1)
http://craziestgadgets.com/wp-content/u ... 00x494.jpg (http://craziestgadgets.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/michael-jackson-left-hand-500x494.jpg)
http://www.foxnews.com/images/542748/0_ ... 06_320.jpg (http://www.foxnews.com/images/542748/0_61_Jackson_May_2006_320.jpg)
http://www.amoeba.com/dynamic-images/bl ... kson-3.jpg (http://www.amoeba.com/dynamic-images/blog/Amoebite/michael-jackson-3.jpg)
http://dailyblabber.ivillage.com/entert ... /Jacko.jpg (http://dailyblabber.ivillage.com/entertainment/archives/Jacko.jpg)
http://slog.thestranger.com/files/2006/ ... 5b1%5d.jpg (http://slog.thestranger.com/files/2006/06/0_22_jackson_michael_bruises1%5b1%5d.jpg)
Here you have to soom, but you see how long ! the fingers are !
http://www.michaeljacksonmoon.com/image ... untain.jpg (http://www.michaeljacksonmoon.com/images/Michael-Jackson-on-a-mountain.jpg)
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_WrRXSeqz3PU/S ... ackson.jpg (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_WrRXSeqz3PU/SkZ1Ub-mLEI/AAAAAAAAAS0/74vcbRAdg1o/s400/paul_mccartney_michael_jackson.jpg)
http://www.slashfilm.com/wp/wp-content/ ... 50x362.jpg (http://www.slashfilm.com/wp/wp-content/images/zz30f79c65-550x362.jpg)
And here some pics where it seams like the fingers are short, the hand very strong :
http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/MJHD ... pare-3.jpg (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/MJHD/mjhd/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/hand-compare-3.jpg)
http://004a926.netsolhost.com/blog1/wp- ... 63x300.jpg (http://004a926.netsolhost.com/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/michael-jackson-hand-cast-2-263x300.jpg)
http://michaeljacksonnotdead.files.word ... =500&h=475 (http://michaeljacksonnotdead.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/michael-jackson-right-hand-5.jpg?w=500&h=475)
Please, what do you think ? All the same...than i should need some new glasses soon... :D
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I've been noticing this for awhile. The Michael I grew up watching had long slender fingers but large hands never the less. But that red curtain 02 dude's hand's look thicker and much stockier, fatter even which is crazy being that Michael was so thin, if that is Michael. It all goes back to the doubles theory and at different times possibly a stand in or double being used. At one point it even looks like the guy had on some sort of extra skin or glove over his hand....which makes me ponder the Dave Dave theory even more.
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Here a pic from the long fingers....looking very il...
http://femmenoir.net/wp-content/uploads ... s-2006.jpg (http://femmenoir.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/michael-jackson-finger-nails-2006.jpg)
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It's not easy to find his hands from the early years, but i found some pic's where he always had this long fingers.
Because i can't imagine that it was always the same person through the years, i thought that after " Of the wall" there where other hands, but i must see that it was at Oprah he has this very good seeing long fingers and the last years, they are sadly looking very old....too old for 50 years....and the coloured fingernails....it looks not good, but the fingers are long !
The Michael at the trial had the short fingers...
Confusion.... :shock:
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Long fingers :
http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/500/3 ... +MJJ52.jpg (http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/500/32728045/Michael+Jackson+MJJ52.jpg)
http://ribotto.com/sitebuilder/images/m ... 51x407.jpg (http://ribotto.com/sitebuilder/images/michael_jackson_and_et-351x407.jpg) Power Thursday....reminds me on the Thursday think...
But what is that ?????????????????????? Total confusion....Michael early years with shorter fingers....
http://images.freshnessmag.com/wp-conte ... _tee_3.jpg (http://images.freshnessmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/hype_means_nothing_mj_rip_tee_3.jpg)
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Hi Hopeless,
I wondered the same!! Especially when I saw this MJ at the rehearsal ... the MJ with the glasses watching the rehearsals!!! This MJ had VERY LONG AND THIN fingers almost like spider legs ... soooo thin.
Here is the YouTube link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4j9_lR-pkw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4j9_lR-pkw)
And when you compare these with the hand of the O2 guy it is very very obvious that something is not quite right!!!
We all know that MJ was thin and assuming that the 02 guy was the "real deal" so how come that he is thin and has suddenly so thick and strong fingers??? I never understood this.
Can anyone explain???
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Hi MJ_Facts,
fine that i am not the only one who noticed ! I can better watch pics or videos, than understand complicated english posts... :D
Yes, what you say is absolut right ! He was so thin and the fingers normaly getting thin too.
When we think that he has to take some medication, like cortison against his disease, it was unusual that only the fingers get swollen...the whole body likes to get more weight...and fingers dosn't get shorter...i know no medicaton for that..... :lol:
The O2 Michael had big hands and shorter fingers......and a bigger head, he seems to be taller...i rearly can't believe that the Michael Jackson, this small man with the little head can change so much.....i can't believe...look at other celebs who had surgery...we all see it....and it often looks scaring...but Michael always looks like he was so born....that goes round and round in my head...
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In the video we could rearly see his long fingers.
But i must realy say that the oic from the last years with the long finger Michael, he looks not good.....rearly not.
Maybe he is in rehab, because i can't believe he is dead with all this circus around from the family.
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This issue makes me want to get my straight jacket lol, but it really makes me stand my ground on the notion that there was a Michael Joseph and a Michael Joe OR else someone who took the real MJ's place somewhere along the line for what ever reason. If the real Michael Jackson is truly alive my bet is that he looks about like he did during the Bad era, skin and all. I think Michael used a lot more make up and disguises than we can fathom, even when we thought we were seeing him totally natural and this goes for the hands as well.
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Hi.
I collected a few pictures on this theme before. I was also interested by his hands. Does can my pictures will help also?
http://torrent.dn.ua/img/upload_image/t ... 6940d0.jpg (http://torrent.dn.ua/img/upload_image/thumb/28c051b0624d4217def826d7326940d0.jpg)
http://www.glomu.ru/images/6866/92/68669273.jpg (http://www.glomu.ru/images/6866/92/68669273.jpg)
http://s42.radikal.ru/i097/0908/0f/59629c410b62.jpg (http://s42.radikal.ru/i097/0908/0f/59629c410b62.jpg)
http://s39.radikal.ru/i083/0906/14/1997857eb5c6.jpg (http://s39.radikal.ru/i083/0906/14/1997857eb5c6.jpg)
http://s39.radikal.ru/i085/0907/85/f36932bea7f2.jpg (http://s39.radikal.ru/i085/0907/85/f36932bea7f2.jpg)
http://img0.liveinternet.ru/images/atta ... 522671.jpg (http://img0.liveinternet.ru/images/attach/c/0/48/298/48298262_1236522671.jpg)
http://img.dni.ru/binaries/v2_articlepic/356594.jpg (http://img.dni.ru/binaries/v2_articlepic/356594.jpg)
http://briansk.ru/images/m211447.jpg (http://briansk.ru/images/m211447.jpg)
http://m.vgorode.ru/media_image/2363122/5859581/6.jpeg (http://m.vgorode.ru/media_image/2363122/5859581/6.jpeg)
http://www.etonline.com/media/photo/200 ... 260408.jpg (http://www.etonline.com/media/photo/2009/03/81343/400_mjackson_090305_cdesouza_85260408.jpg)
http://lichnosti.net/photos/105/11916056281.jpg (http://lichnosti.net/photos/105/11916056281.jpg)
http://s41.radikal.ru/i092/0904/26/ab1a85ce95ab.jpg (http://s41.radikal.ru/i092/0904/26/ab1a85ce95ab.jpg)
http://xmages.net/images.php/i6497_MDF02503.JPG (http://xmages.net/images.php/i6497_MDF02503.JPG)
http://s57.radikal.ru/i155/0902/ed/c9dafae8eaef.jpg (http://s57.radikal.ru/i155/0902/ed/c9dafae8eaef.jpg)
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/6108 ... haeljr.jpg (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/6108/galleryenlargedmichaeljr.jpg)
http://img-kiev.fotki.yandex.ru/get/300 ... 6eb23b3_XL (http://img-kiev.fotki.yandex.ru/get/3001/starcevatatyana.5/0_22dae_d6eb23b3_XL)
http://img1.liveinternet.ru/images/foto ... 714054.jpg (http://img1.liveinternet.ru/images/foto/b/3/214/2107214/f_18714054.jpg)
http://www.handresearch.com/news/pictur ... ssauds.jpg (http://www.handresearch.com/news/pictures/michael-jackson-right-hand-wax-cast-madame-tussauds.jpg)
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Hello whisper9396,
thank you so much for your help ! Am i right that there was only one pic with the long fingers ? These pics are difficult to find and weird is that Katherine put in her book " Never can say good bye " only oics from the Michael with long fingers !!!
Wath can they more give us to see ?
The original Michael has this very long fine fingers, but it looks very ill in the less pics from the last years.
The double or wath ever has stronger hands with shorter fingers.
In the " watching rehersal" video are it rearly that long fingers, but i can't believe ... helooks thin, but tall with stronger bones.....for me it was nearly unpossible ...this change...
It costs many sleepless nights and i think we will never hear what happens... :?
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What are you thinking ?
Long or short fingers ?
http://mjjgallery.free.fr/thriller/awar ... ng/006.jpg (http://mjjgallery.free.fr/thriller/awards/screening/006.jpg)
Long :
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/6108 ... haeljr.jpg (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/6108/galleryenlargedmichaeljr.jpg)
Short :
http://s57.radikal.ru/i155/0902/ed/c9dafae8eaef.jpg (http://s57.radikal.ru/i155/0902/ed/c9dafae8eaef.jpg)
I think short and it would mean that it was for 25 or more years two of them !
The long finger Michael wasn't much in public....on tours ??? i am not sure. Was he Joe ?
The one with the short fingers was all about....was he Joseph and the father of the children ?
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Also arthritis can swell the joints making the fingers look shorter and thicker.
But for me the last time we saw the real Michael Jackson was the Bad era.
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These are the same persons :
http://mjjgallery.free.fr/thriller/awar ... ng/006.jpg (http://mjjgallery.free.fr/thriller/awards/screening/006.jpg)
http://s57.radikal.ru/i155/0902/ed/c9dafae8eaef.jpg (http://s57.radikal.ru/i155/0902/ed/c9dafae8eaef.jpg)
Look at the smile.
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Hi.
I collected a few pictures on this theme before. I was also interested by his hands. Does can my pictures will help also?
http://torrent.dn.ua/img/upload_image/t ... 6940d0.jpg (http://torrent.dn.ua/img/upload_image/thumb/28c051b0624d4217def826d7326940d0.jpg)
http://www.glomu.ru/images/6866/92/68669273.jpg (http://www.glomu.ru/images/6866/92/68669273.jpg)
http://s42.radikal.ru/i097/0908/0f/59629c410b62.jpg (http://s42.radikal.ru/i097/0908/0f/59629c410b62.jpg)
http://s39.radikal.ru/i083/0906/14/1997857eb5c6.jpg (http://s39.radikal.ru/i083/0906/14/1997857eb5c6.jpg)
http://s39.radikal.ru/i085/0907/85/f36932bea7f2.jpg (http://s39.radikal.ru/i085/0907/85/f36932bea7f2.jpg)
http://img0.liveinternet.ru/images/atta ... 522671.jpg (http://img0.liveinternet.ru/images/attach/c/0/48/298/48298262_1236522671.jpg)
http://img.dni.ru/binaries/v2_articlepic/356594.jpg (http://img.dni.ru/binaries/v2_articlepic/356594.jpg)
http://briansk.ru/images/m211447.jpg (http://briansk.ru/images/m211447.jpg)
http://m.vgorode.ru/media_image/2363122/5859581/6.jpeg (http://m.vgorode.ru/media_image/2363122/5859581/6.jpeg)
http://www.etonline.com/media/photo/200 ... 260408.jpg (http://www.etonline.com/media/photo/2009/03/81343/400_mjackson_090305_cdesouza_85260408.jpg)
http://lichnosti.net/photos/105/11916056281.jpg (http://lichnosti.net/photos/105/11916056281.jpg)
http://s41.radikal.ru/i092/0904/26/ab1a85ce95ab.jpg (http://s41.radikal.ru/i092/0904/26/ab1a85ce95ab.jpg)
http://xmages.net/images.php/i6497_MDF02503.JPG (http://xmages.net/images.php/i6497_MDF02503.JPG)
http://s57.radikal.ru/i155/0902/ed/c9dafae8eaef.jpg (http://s57.radikal.ru/i155/0902/ed/c9dafae8eaef.jpg)
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/6108 ... haeljr.jpg (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/6108/galleryenlargedmichaeljr.jpg)
http://img-kiev.fotki.yandex.ru/get/300 ... 6eb23b3_XL (http://img-kiev.fotki.yandex.ru/get/3001/starcevatatyana.5/0_22dae_d6eb23b3_XL)
http://img1.liveinternet.ru/images/foto ... 714054.jpg (http://img1.liveinternet.ru/images/foto/b/3/214/2107214/f_18714054.jpg)
http://www.handresearch.com/news/pictur ... ssauds.jpg (http://www.handresearch.com/news/pictures/michael-jackson-right-hand-wax-cast-madame-tussauds.jpg)
Sometimes I think that ALL these guys are NOT Mikey - the MJ in TII looked completely different!!
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You have a lot of pictures with him holding up his hand with his palm showing, get someone who can compare the lines, a palm reader and a good one. I think I will ask my friend she has been doing this for 30 years maybe she can give some insight, don't know, but it is worth a try.. :D
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[attachment=0:32dgqcpg]19538_1207552192294_1333351207_30542107_6780152_n[1].jpg[/attachment:32dgqcpg]
IMO they are all the same person. Our eyes can easily play tricks on us (optical illusions). That's why an a-line skirt with vertical stripes makes you look slimmer. When MJ was younger his hands had more accentuated long tendons giving the longer appearance. In this pic, the hand on the left appears longer because of the tendons, and the hand on the right appears stockier because it faces us head on. He is still dark here and IMO his hands look like his later life hands. He had arthritis apparently in later years which affects swelling in the fingers (my husband has that). Also the angle of the hands even slightly affects perception of the length of fingers.
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oh God! Looking at these hand-pictures I'm confused now.... :roll: can't tell anymore if it's Michael or not..or which is Michael I knew..or I thought I knew.. :? when did "they" make a change and introduced to us this Michael we know now? Lines and fingers are different almost on every pic..specially when to compare pics from dark-skin Michael and white-skin Michael...how is this possible?
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i have always paid more attention to the hands and the general bone structure. long upper leg bones ect. it doesn't really have to mean alot of height. he has big bones for not that big a dude. i think if someone else was playing the role of michael it was intermitten (like the way they used the olson twins in full house). uumm i wonder when did that show come about? i just don't know what the legal ramifications of this practice would be if one was used for more that the normal circumstances.not to mention the deception factor doesn't bode well for character in my opinion. what about performances and videos, the idea of that not being the real deal doesn't sit too well for me and i can't see that many would feel any different. based on all this i do however feel that the michael we saw at least at the end of tii telling us about the BAM was in deed michael. of course i haven't had my meds today :lol: ;) still my heart can't help but believe that his character is good and that this kind of deception is just sometimes a part of our imagination.
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You have a lot of pictures with him holding up his hand with his palm showing, get someone who can compare the lines, a palm reader and a good one. I think I will ask my friend she has been doing this for 30 years maybe she can give some insight, don't know, but it is worth a try.. :D
Good idea!!!!!!!! I think it is really hard to tell but I agree with the artritus idea, it really affected my Grandmothers fingers! Also when you look at pics of him waving or holding up his hand it sems that his little finger sticks out to the side in a certain way (don't know how to describe it). :?
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Each and every one of these pictures are Michael. The same Michael that began in Gary, In. as a six year old little boy. It's all Michael. Your hands can change over the course of time with age, weight fluctuation, arthritic conditions, and in his case, loss of pigmentation. They can look different in photographs because of angles, lighting and so forth.
He was never replaced by another Michael. Michael has always been Michael.
In TII, it was all Michael. In these pics, it's all Mike.
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You have a lot of pictures with him holding up his hand with his palm showing, get someone who can compare the lines, a palm reader and a good one. I think I will ask my friend she has been doing this for 30 years maybe she can give some insight, don't know, but it is worth a try.. :D
Good idea!!!!!!!! I think it is really hard to tell but I agree with the artritus idea, it really affected my Grandmothers fingers! Also when you look at pics of him waving or holding up his hand it sems that his little finger sticks out to the side in a certain way (don't know how to describe it). :?
As for me, I collected thees pics just only for hands lines. Lets make attention for lines! The lines must be the same in one human during his life. :?
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Each and every one of these pictures are Michael. The same Michael that began in Gary, In. as a six year old little boy. It's all Michael. Your hands can change over the course of time with age, weight fluctuation, arthritic conditions, and in his case, loss of pigmentation. They can look different in photographs because of angles, lighting and so forth.
He was never replaced by another Michael. Michael has always been Michael.
In TII, it was all Michael. In these pics, it's all Mike.
You are right, possible....But when I watched TII, I cant to belive that this is the real MJ. I cant to axplaine this my since. Just another condact.....something another in his motions...I guess...
Sorry for terrible english :|
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Each and every one of these pictures are Michael. The same Michael that began in Gary, In. as a six year old little boy. It's all Michael. Your hands can change over the course of time with age, weight fluctuation, arthritic conditions, and in his case, loss of pigmentation. They can look different in photographs because of angles, lighting and so forth.
He was never replaced by another Michael. Michael has always been Michael.
In TII, it was all Michael. In these pics, it's all Mike.
I'm totally with you :)
And, guys, are you gonna tell me this guy has short fingers?
Not in my life :lol: :lol:
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Each and every one of these pictures are Michael. The same Michael that began in Gary, In. as a six year old little boy. It's all Michael. Your hands can change over the course of time with age, weight fluctuation, arthritic conditions, and in his case, loss of pigmentation. They can look different in photographs because of angles, lighting and so forth.
He was never replaced by another Michael. Michael has always been Michael.
In TII, it was all Michael. In these pics, it's all Mike.
I'm totally with you :)
And, guys, are you gonna tell me this guy has short fingers?
Not in my life :lol: :lol:
Perfect pics, really. Can you tell me (I dont know) did MJ has an illness of the bones? I see some problems with hands bones MJ on your pics. (Because my mother has this problems, I knew hands like on pics). Thank you.
Sorry for errors.
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I can't help but giggle at how some of us call him 02 dude or The red curtain guy he he but even if this is really Michael I get an air of mystery around him in these photos in front of the red curtain. And these are some of the better shots of his hands.
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Each and every one of these pictures are Michael. The same Michael that began in Gary, In. as a six year old little boy. It's all Michael. Your hands can change over the course of time with age, weight fluctuation, arthritic conditions, and in his case, loss of pigmentation. They can look different in photographs because of angles, lighting and so forth.
He was never replaced by another Michael. Michael has always been Michael.
In TII, it was all Michael. In these pics, it's all Mike.
I'm totally with you :)
And, guys, are you gonna tell me this guy has short fingers?
Not in my life :lol: :lol:
Perfect pics, really. Can you tell me (I dont know) did MJ has an illness of the bones? I see some problems with hands bones MJ on your pics. (Because my mother has this problems, I knew hands like on pics). Thank you.
Sorry for errors.
He does have arthritis and my mother is 50 and her little fingers look like that too :)
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Each and every one of these pictures are Michael. The same Michael that began in Gary, In. as a six year old little boy. It's all Michael. Your hands can change over the course of time with age, weight fluctuation, arthritic conditions, and in his case, loss of pigmentation. They can look different in photographs because of angles, lighting and so forth.
He was never replaced by another Michael. Michael has always been Michael.
In TII, it was all Michael. In these pics, it's all Mike.
I'm totally with you :)
And, guys, are you gonna tell me this guy has short fingers?
Not in my life :lol: :lol:
Perfect pics, really. Can you tell me (I dont know) did MJ has an illness of the bones? I see some problems with hands bones MJ on your pics. (Because my mother has this problems, I knew hands like on pics). Thank you.
Sorry for errors.
He does have arthritis and my mother is 50 and her little fingers look like that too :)
Well, this is mean, that it was problem to play piano, to dance, to work hard for him. Hi felt the paine. Arthritis means a problems with heart. Now Im asking: 50 concerts ????????????????????? Its anreal..... :roll:
Sorry for english.
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I call the guy at the 02 announcement..."Michael"!! I have always thought it was him as well as all the Michael's in TII. As mentioned there are many aspects that can make someone look different. Lighting, angels...etc..I have often looked at pictures or watched TII and thought to myself...to what extent would our genius go to, to make people think there was more than one of him? ;) Because while I think it is Michael, I do admit he does have different looks at times. There are many different looks of Michael in TII, but I think he has created these looks for a reason! This is the Greatest Show on Earth!! :)
Let me remind you, (and I have said this before but it seems to get ignored) that Michael is a genius....he is a master of illusion...master of disguises...what makes anyone think that he could not pull of different techniques to make the illusion that there was more than one of him? I believe Michael is capable of anything!! I believe he is in control of every aspect of this hoax, and that everyone involved gets their ques from Michael, but that's my opinion :) I LOVE you Michael and appreciate YOU for the man you are, for your compassion for others, & most of all... for your LOVE! God Bless You!! :)
LOVE, PEACE, Joy, & BLESSINGS to ALL! :)
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Well, sometimes I thought, that decisions of MJ rebuses are too difficult for greater part of fans. He counts on our education, intellect and logic. OK, but it is not a lot of people like thees. Is he for select fans? :?
Sorry for bad english.
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I have always thought that some of the pictures from last year of mj`s hands the skin looks far older than that of a fifty year old.I know a lot of people in there fiftys that have done hard manuel work over their life and even they don`t look as old as mj` hands.His hands look like they belong to someone far older say in their late 60`s.
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Each and every one of these pictures are Michael. The same Michael that began in Gary, In. as a six year old little boy. It's all Michael. Your hands can change over the course of time with age, weight fluctuation, arthritic conditions, and in his case, loss of pigmentation. They can look different in photographs because of angles, lighting and so forth.
He was never replaced by another Michael. Michael has always been Michael.
In TII, it was all Michael. In these pics, it's all Mike.
You are right, possible....But when I watched TII, I cant to belive that this is the real MJ. I cant to axplaine this my since. Just another condact.....something another in his motions...I guess...
Sorry for terrible english :|
I'm sorry you find it hard to believe, but it's all Michael in TII.
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02 dude isn't Michael he looks like hes in his 20s and looks much healthier than the one in tii if it was really Michael in all of tii then something was wrong he was way to skinny he looked like he was 90 pounds no way could he have toured
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02 dude isn't Michael he looks like hes in his 20s and looks much healthier than the one in tii if it was really Michael in all of tii then something was wrong he was way to skinny he looked like he was 90 pounds no way could he have toured
Michael was not too much thinner than he'd been in the past. He'd lost weight, but not as much as has been reported, and he certainly wasn't 90 pounds. His (always) small frame was more evident as a result of the more form fitting clothing he'd taken to wearing. Michael was never a big man.
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In TII, it was all Michael. In these pics, it's all Mike.
Now that's quote an interesting statement - Michael in TII, and Mike in the hands pics...
By the way - I most definitely do not agree with it all being the same person in TII - one simply can't change hight and shape back and forth in a couple of days, leave alone change face and ears.
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Long fingers :
http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/500/3 ... +MJJ52.jpg (http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/500/32728045/Michael+Jackson+MJJ52.jpg)
http://ribotto.com/sitebuilder/images/m ... 51x407.jpg (http://ribotto.com/sitebuilder/images/michael_jackson_and_et-351x407.jpg) Power Thursday....reminds me on the Thursday think...
But what is that ?????????????????????? Total confusion....Michael early years with shorter fingers....
http://images.freshnessmag.com/wp-conte ... _tee_3.jpg (http://images.freshnessmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/hype_means_nothing_mj_rip_tee_3.jpg)
I've always thought that this last picture looked more like Janet than Michael.
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I have always thought that some of the pictures from last year of mj`s hands the skin looks far older than that of a fifty year old.I know a lot of people in there fiftys that have done hard manuel work over their life and even they don`t look as old as mj` hands.His hands look like they belong to someone far older say in their late 60`s.
When Michael was growing up,he had very large hands for his age and his frame. I think he just grew into them. His nails turned colors I've read from the auto immune meds he was taking, perhaps that also affected the joints of his hands. He had some arthritic affliction in his back and that sometimes affects the hands. I have a disc disease and it has caused the cartilage in the joints of my hands to become thickened and less flexible and they will according to how I move, spasm and lock. They appear shorter and thicker because the ligaments don't stretch as they should. Maybe that could explain it. If you notice when he's performing, Michael often takes hold of his hands and massages them or shakes them vigorously, which could indicate they might have been in spasm. I do it all the time, it relaxes the spasm. Anything affecting the spine also affects the extremities, the hands and feet or at least one if not both of them.
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I have always thought that some of the pictures from last year of mj`s hands the skin looks far older than that of a fifty year old.I know a lot of people in there fiftys that have done hard manuel work over their life and even they don`t look as old as mj` hands.His hands look like they belong to someone far older say in their late 60`s.
When Michael was growing up,he had very large hands for his age and his frame. I think he just grew into them. His nails turned colors I've read from the auto immune meds he was taking, perhaps that also affected the joints of his hands. He had some arthritic affliction in his back and that sometimes affects the hands. I have a disc disease and it has caused the cartilage in the joints of my hands to become thickened and less flexible and they will according to how I move, spasm and lock. They appear shorter and thicker because the ligaments don't stretch as they should. Maybe that could explain it. If you notice when he's performing, Michael often takes hold of his hands and massages them or shakes them vigorously, which could indicate they might have been in spasm. I do it all the time, it relaxes the spasm. Anything affecting the spine also affects the extremities, the hands and feet or at least one if not both of them.
seems like the hand shaking thing goes back a long way for michael. i am thinking that is just a stage gesture he picked up from one of the oldies but goodies he admired so much.
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These are the same persons :
http://mjjgallery.free.fr/thriller/awar ... ng/006.jpg (http://mjjgallery.free.fr/thriller/awards/screening/006.jpg)
http://s57.radikal.ru/i155/0902/ed/c9dafae8eaef.jpg (http://s57.radikal.ru/i155/0902/ed/c9dafae8eaef.jpg)
Look at the smile.
I agree that these two handsome men are the same. I'm really confused like the rest of you on the difference of the hands. Could it be angle of picture shot and light, etc? IDK - just asking...
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need to compare the hands to the way the brothers have changed over the years maybe. :idea:
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In TII, it was all Michael. In these pics, it's all Mike.
Now that's quote an interesting statement - Michael in TII, and Mike in the hands pics...
By the way - I most definitely do not agree with it all being the same person in TII - one simply can't change hight and shape back and forth in a couple of days, leave alone change face and ears.
Let me rephrase it for you so as not to seem cryptic.
In TII, the man you see performing is Michael Jackson. In each song and dance rehearsal, it's Michael Jackson. There are no doubles, fill ins, substitutes, stand ins or any other person pretending to be Michael Jackson. It is all 100% Michael Jackson. Whether wearing black pants, blue pants, orange pants, or whatever color pants, it is Michael Jackson.
The hands in each photo belong to Michael Jackson.
Now I'm going to rant.
As for Randy's statement about Mike not approving of the film. Someone mentioned that in this thread I believe. That's a lie and Randy makes me angry by saying that. I will even venture to say he's pissed because he isn't getting one red cent from the sale of the movie.
It was Michael's idea to film this rehearsal just as he's filmed every rehearsal for every tour he's ever done. Michael was excited about the tour, about performing again, and he was not unhealthy. His weight wasn't 90 or 100 pounds. The last time I saw him - a little over a month before he died, or whatever the hell it was he did-, he looked to me to be about 130-140. I even told him he looked good for an old man. He was happy, his kids were happy, and he was on top of the damned world. I even told him the world was at his feet again - just as it should be. He wasn't paranoid. He was lucid. He was energetic. He was the freaking happiest I'd seen him in a very long time. The cloud that seemed to have hovered over him during the years since the trial was finally completely gone.
Back to the topic at hand.
And someone upthread posted a very interesting observation. The color and shape/lines of a garment can distort your height, weight, and your complexion. Black slims and lengthens you as do some colors. Was he wearing loafers or boots?
I'm editing to add: I read the comment about the colors in another thread. I've read so much on here my eyes are running together and I'm forgetting where certain things were when I read them. I'm on overload.
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Thank you Callofthewild for that rant, it was much appreciated on my part! ;) And just for the record I believe you 100%. Because I have always thought that the color of his clothes, the fit of his clothes, etc...played a big part in how we saw him in TII. Not to mention the lighting and camera angles, and all that good stuff. Thank you so much for sharing with us what you know. God Bless you :)
And btw...all of the clothes colors, lighting, camera angles, etc...can create whats called optical illusions! ;)
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Each and every one of these pictures are Michael. The same Michael that began in Gary, In. as a six year old little boy. It's all Michael. Your hands can change over the course of time with age, weight fluctuation, arthritic conditions, and in his case, loss of pigmentation. They can look different in photographs because of angles, lighting and so forth.
He was never replaced by another Michael. Michael has always been Michael.
In TII, it was all Michael. In these pics, it's all Mike.
See but you don't really know if that is true or not. None of us do. You speak very confidently but I sense you are compensating for some insecurity here. Rightfully so I'll add.
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Long fingers :
http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/500/3 ... +MJJ52.jpg (http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/500/32728045/Michael+Jackson+MJJ52.jpg)
http://ribotto.com/sitebuilder/images/m ... 51x407.jpg (http://ribotto.com/sitebuilder/images/michael_jackson_and_et-351x407.jpg) Power Thursday....reminds me on the Thursday think...
But what is that ?????????????????????? Total confusion....Michael early years with shorter fingers....
http://images.freshnessmag.com/wp-conte ... _tee_3.jpg (http://images.freshnessmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/hype_means_nothing_mj_rip_tee_3.jpg)
LOL be careful you guys...that picture of MJ with the shorter fingers around his eyes is a photo shop picture. I've seen it before. The photo of him is from a famous photo shoot picture and the fingers and hands are are someone else...you are being fooled by photoshop...LOL
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well, if we are bringing this subject up again....LOL
and I'm gonna say this... His hands don't look the same because they are the hands of a 50 year old man and not a 20 year old kid. This is the reason why no one can accept the fact that it was MJ at O2, because no one wants to see a 50 year old man taking the place of their handsome young heartthrob. No wonder MJ was such a recluse and addicted to surgery...because all his fans couldn't let him go...him being who he and what he looked like when he was young. The man wore wigs for you, tattooed his eyes for you, starved himself sick for you, and still we are so critical. Let the man be. Those fingers are his, arthritic and strong. They have seen more and done more than any of us can imagine...let him have his hands and let him be 50.
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well, if we are bringing this subject up again....LOL
and I'm gonna say this... His hands don't look the same because they are the hands of a 50 year old man and not a 20 year old kid. This is the reason why no one can accept the fact that it was MJ at O2, because no one wants to see a 50 year old man taking the place of their handsome young heartthrob. No wonder MJ was such a recluse and addicted to surgery...because all his fans couldn't let him go...him being who he and what he looked like when he was young. The man wore wigs for you, tattooed his eyes for you, starved himself sick for you, and still we are so critical. Let the man be. Those fingers are his, arthritic and strong. They have seen more and done more than any of us can imagine...let him have his hands and let him be 50.
That was wonderfully stated.
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Each and every one of these pictures are Michael. The same Michael that began in Gary, In. as a six year old little boy. It's all Michael. Your hands can change over the course of time with age, weight fluctuation, arthritic conditions, and in his case, loss of pigmentation. They can look different in photographs because of angles, lighting and so forth.
He was never replaced by another Michael. Michael has always been Michael.
In TII, it was all Michael. In these pics, it's all Mike.
See but you don't really know if that is true or not. None of us do. You speak very confidently but I sense you are compensating for some insecurity here. Rightfully so I'll add.
I'm sorry. I don't mean to be rude, but I'm just going to have to say 'whatever' to that.
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well, if we are bringing this subject up again....LOL
and I'm gonna say this... His hands don't look the same because they are the hands of a 50 year old man and not a 20 year old kid. This is the reason why no one can accept the fact that it was MJ at O2, because no one wants to see a 50 year old man taking the place of their handsome young heartthrob. No wonder MJ was such a recluse and addicted to surgery...because all his fans couldn't let him go...him being who he and what he looked like when he was young. The man wore wigs for you, tattooed his eyes for you, starved himself sick for you, and still we are so critical. Let the man be. Those fingers are his, arthritic and strong. They have seen more and done more than any of us can imagine...let him have his hands and let him be 50.
I could not have said it better thanks, Bless You! :)
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Each and every one of these pictures are Michael. The same Michael that began in Gary, In. as a six year old little boy. It's all Michael. Your hands can change over the course of time with age, weight fluctuation, arthritic conditions, and in his case, loss of pigmentation. They can look different in photographs because of angles, lighting and so forth.
He was never replaced by another Michael. Michael has always been Michael.
In TII, it was all Michael. In these pics, it's all Mike.
See but you don't really know if that is true or not. None of us do. You speak very confidently but I sense you are compensating for some insecurity here. Rightfully so I'll add.
Bec...that was not very nice of you to say. Did you read Callofthewild's post above? He/She does know Michael and had seen him just a month before he left us. Please try to not judge people, as you never know who they might really be and what they might know.
LOVE to All!
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Each and every one of these pictures are Michael. The same Michael that began in Gary, In. as a six year old little boy. It's all Michael. Your hands can change over the course of time with age, weight fluctuation, arthritic conditions, and in his case, loss of pigmentation. They can look different in photographs because of angles, lighting and so forth.
He was never replaced by another Michael. Michael has always been Michael.
In TII, it was all Michael. In these pics, it's all Mike.
See but you don't really know if that is true or not. None of us do. You speak very confidently but I sense you are compensating for some insecurity here. Rightfully so I'll add.
I'm sorry. I don't mean to be rude, but I'm just going to have to say 'whatever' to that.
Why do you say whatever?
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Each and every one of these pictures are Michael. The same Michael that began in Gary, In. as a six year old little boy. It's all Michael. Your hands can change over the course of time with age, weight fluctuation, arthritic conditions, and in his case, loss of pigmentation. They can look different in photographs because of angles, lighting and so forth.
He was never replaced by another Michael. Michael has always been Michael.
In TII, it was all Michael. In these pics, it's all Mike.
See but you don't really know if that is true or not. None of us do. You speak very confidently but I sense you are compensating for some insecurity here. Rightfully so I'll add.
Bec...that was not very nice of you to say. Did you read Callofthewild's post above? He/She does know Michael and had seen him just a month before he left us. Please try to not judge people, as you never know who they might really be and what they might know.
LOVE to All!
Well it's been my experience that people lie a lot on the internet.
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rofl my hands look nothing like they did when i was a kid either. i must have a body double
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Each and every one of these pictures are Michael. The same Michael that began in Gary, In. as a six year old little boy. It's all Michael. Your hands can change over the course of time with age, weight fluctuation, arthritic conditions, and in his case, loss of pigmentation. They can look different in photographs because of angles, lighting and so forth.
He was never replaced by another Michael. Michael has always been Michael.
In TII, it was all Michael. In these pics, it's all Mike.
See but you don't really know if that is true or not. None of us do. You speak very confidently but I sense you are compensating for some insecurity here. Rightfully so I'll add.
I'm sorry. I don't mean to be rude, but I'm just going to have to say 'whatever' to that.
Why do you say whatever?
To be direct, I replied with 'whatever' because, quite frankly, I found your post to me rude and insulting.
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But on Arena 02 picture I clearly see brownish nails MJ has because of vitiligo and swollen little finger from artritis. :roll:
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not to start a fight or doubt your personal knowledge, but just playing devil's advocate...
In TII, the man you see performing is Michael Jackson. In each song and dance rehearsal, it's Michael Jackson. There are no doubles, fill ins, substitutes, stand ins or any other person pretending to be Michael Jackson. It is all 100% Michael Jackson. Whether wearing black pants, blue pants, orange pants, or whatever color pants, it is Michael Jackson.
blame Joe, he was the one who started the doubles talk in TII. :)
Michael was excited about the tour, about performing again, and he was not unhealthy.
what about the youtube video where he was complaining about the 50 shows? many fans have seen it, but it was taken down before anyone could download a copy.
this, too.
"The Newshound can today reveal that despite having been captured on camera arriving in London, Jackson still attempted to pull out of his press conference."
"The Newshound can exclusively reveal that Jackson had barricaded himself in his hotel room and spent several hours refusing to attend the press conference. Minders were forced to stand in the hotel corridor and plead with him through the door to his room. By the time he was persuaded to leave, he was already significantly late for the announcement."
more here:
http://lowlynewshound.blogspot.com/2010 ... press.html (http://lowlynewshound.blogspot.com/2010/07/50-nights-in-london-jackson-press.html)
other stories about how RP would get pissed because MJ was not attending rehearsals, and they would have a not-so-nice phone conversation, and then MJ would come and just to show Randy he held no grudge, he would tap RP on the back when he passes him by.
His weight wasn't 90 or 100 pounds. The last time I saw him - a little over a month before he died, or whatever the hell it was he did-, he looked to me to be about 130-140. He was happy, his kids were happy, and he was on top of the damned world. He was lucid. He was energetic. He was the freaking happiest I'd seen him in a very long time. The cloud that seemed to have hovered over him during the years since the trial was finally completely gone.
if you saw him last in May last year, TINI says they saw him right up till last rehearsal day, and he was skin and bones. not saying they're right because how would i know? but that's another story out there. there's the movie, though, and i didn't see a man weighing 130-140 pounds. he still looked very thin despite several layers of shirts.
all i'm saying is that if this is a smoke-and-mirrors kind of thing, we can never really be sure about what we're seeing, and i am not even referring to a double. things could have changed since the last time you saw him, or he could have been giving you that impression when the truth might be that he was having problems with AEG.
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Each and every one of these pictures are Michael. The same Michael that began in Gary, In. as a six year old little boy. It's all Michael. Your hands can change over the course of time with age, weight fluctuation, arthritic conditions, and in his case, loss of pigmentation. They can look different in photographs because of angles, lighting and so forth.
He was never replaced by another Michael. Michael has always been Michael.
In TII, it was all Michael. In these pics, it's all Mike.
See but you don't really know if that is true or not. None of us do. You speak very confidently but I sense you are compensating for some insecurity here. Rightfully so I'll add.
Bec...that was not very nice of you to say. Did you read Callofthewild's post above? He/She does know Michael and had seen him just a month before he left us. Please try to not judge people, as you never know who they might really be and what they might know.
LOVE to All!
Well it's been my experience that people lie a lot on the internet.
I understand that people lie on the internet. But that does not mean everyone who says something about Michael is lying. I see this all the time on this forum, people discrediting things people say without knowing for sure that these people might know what they are talking about. I see people all the time talking about being fooled by trolls, and people posing as Michael, or someone close to him. Well you can only be fooled as far as you let yourself be fooled. If you take in all the details and keep an open mind, while thinking for yourself. You will not be drawn into their web. You can only be manipulated, as far as you let yourself be manipulated and fooled.
I feel bad for some people who post and immediately they are ridiculed as being a liar, or not knowing what they are talking about. What would people feel like if they found out that the person they did that to was Michael? In closing, it's my prayer that this MJ family can think a little before they so quickly criticize or discredit what another person says. You wouldn't like it done to you I'm sure! It's all for LOVE! :)
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not to start a fight or doubt your personal knowledge, but just playing devil's advocate...
In TII, the man you see performing is Michael Jackson. In each song and dance rehearsal, it's Michael Jackson. There are no doubles, fill ins, substitutes, stand ins or any other person pretending to be Michael Jackson. It is all 100% Michael Jackson. Whether wearing black pants, blue pants, orange pants, or whatever color pants, it is Michael Jackson.
blame Joe, he was the one who started the doubles talk in TII. :)
Michael was excited about the tour, about performing again, and he was not unhealthy.
what about the youtube video where he was complaining about the 50 shows? many fans have seen it, but it was taken down before anyone could download a copy.
this, too.
"The Newshound can today reveal that despite having been captured on camera arriving in London, Jackson still attempted to pull out of his press conference."
"The Newshound can exclusively reveal that Jackson had barricaded himself in his hotel room and spent several hours refusing to attend the press conference. Minders were forced to stand in the hotel corridor and plead with him through the door to his room. By the time he was persuaded to leave, he was already significantly late for the announcement."
more here:
http://lowlynewshound.blogspot.com/2010 ... press.html (http://lowlynewshound.blogspot.com/2010/07/50-nights-in-london-jackson-press.html)
other stories about how RP would get pissed because MJ was not attending rehearsals, and they would have a not-so-nice phone conversation, and then MJ would come and just to show Randy he held no grudge, he would tap RP on the back when he passes him by.
His weight wasn't 90 or 100 pounds. The last time I saw him - a little over a month before he died, or whatever the hell it was he did-, he looked to me to be about 130-140. He was happy, his kids were happy, and he was on top of the damned world. He was lucid. He was energetic. He was the freaking happiest I'd seen him in a very long time. The cloud that seemed to have hovered over him during the years since the trial was finally completely gone.
if you saw him last in May last year, TINI says they saw him right up till last rehearsal day, and he was skin and bones. not saying they're right because how would i know? but that's another story out there. there's the movie, though, and i didn't see a man weighing 130-140 pounds. he still looked very thin despite several layers of shirts.
all i'm saying is that if this is a smoke-and-mirrors kind of thing, we can never really be sure about what we're seeing, and i am not even referring to a double. things could have changed since the last time you saw him, or he could have been giving you that impression when the truth might be that he was having problems with AEG.
I can't tell you why Joe would say that wasn't Michael. I'm sorry I don't have a better answer for you, but I don't. Why does Joe say a lot of what Joe says? Editing to add text here: A lot of people pegged Mike as an enigma. Joe is really the enigma, or the one who can't be figured out. He says/does the most random things at the most inopportune times, yet he's smart as a fox. All I can say about Joe is, Joe is Joe, and LaToya is just like her father.
I've never seen the video of him complaining about doing fifty shows. I know he said he was excited about getting back on stage. Those were his words, not mine. Was he lying? Presenting a facade? It's possible, but I don't believe so. As for that media report, I've never seen it, nor do I put much faith in most of what I read about Mike. I don't know about his relationship with Randy Phillips or AEG. I didn't delve into his business. That was not the nature of my relationship with him. (The Randy I was referring to was his brother Randy).
I don't know who TINI is, or when he/she saw Mike, but the Michael Jackson I saw, conversed with, and hugged goodbye, the man I've known for nearly thirty five years, wasn't 'skin and bones'. Thin? Yes. Strong? Yes. But skin and bones? No. Fragile? No. Did he lose twenty or thirty pounds in a little over a month? I don't know. I doubt it. I know he was working out as it was mentioned in conversation. Could I be overestimating his weight by a few pounds based on my visual assessment? It's possible. I didn't demand he get on a scale to verify the numbers, but he was at least 130 when I saw him. He looked fine to me in TII. He wasn't anorexic. He wasn't sickly. He was vivacious. He was energetic and focused. He certainly wasn't drugged, or under the influence.
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I can't tell you why Joe would say that wasn't Michael. I'm sorry I don't have a better answer for you, but I don't. Why does Joe say a lot of what Joe says? Editing to add text here: A lot of people pegged Mike as an enigma. Joe is really the enigma, or the one who can't be figured out. He says/does the most random things at the most inopportune times, yet he's smart as a fox. All I can say about Joe is, Joe is Joe, and LaToya is just like her father.
I've never seen the video of him complaining about doing fifty shows. I know he said he was excited about getting back on stage. Those were his words, not mine. Was he lying? Presenting a facade? It's possible, but I don't believe so. As for that media report, I've never seen it, nor do I put much faith in most of what I read about Mike. I don't know about his relationship with Randy Phillips or AEG. I didn't delve into his business. That was not the nature of my relationship with him. (The Randy I was referring to was his brother Randy).
I don't know who TINI is, or when he/she saw Mike, but the Michael Jackson I saw, conversed with, and hugged goodbye, the man I've known for nearly thirty five years, wasn't 'skin and bones'. Thin? Yes. Strong? Yes. But skin and bones? No. Fragile? No. Did he lose twenty or thirty pounds in a little over a month? I don't know. I doubt it. I know he was working out as it was mentioned in conversation. Could I be overestimating his weight by a few pounds based on my visual assessment? It's possible. I didn't demand he get on a scale to verify the numbers, but he was at least 130 when I saw him. He looked fine to me in TII. He wasn't anorexic. He wasn't sickly. He was vivacious. He was energetic and focused. He certainly wasn't drugged, or under the influence.
oh, so you're not in the investigative loop, so to speak. thank you for sharing your perspective.
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I call the guy at the 02 announcement..."Michael"!! I have always thought it was him as well as all the Michael's in TII. As mentioned there are many aspects that can make someone look different. Lighting, angels...etc..I have often looked at pictures or watched TII and thought to myself...to what extent would our genius go to, to make people think there was more than one of him? ;) Because while I think it is Michael, I do admit he does have different looks at times. There are many different looks of Michael in TII, but I think he has created these looks for a reason! This is the Greatest Show on Earth!! :)
Let me remind you, (and I have said this before but it seems to get ignored) that Michael is a genius....he is a master of illusion...master of disguises...what makes anyone think that he could not pull of different techniques to make the illusion that there was more than one of him? I believe Michael is capable of anything!! I believe he is in control of every aspect of this hoax, and that everyone involved gets their ques from Michael, but that's my opinion :) I LOVE you Michael and appreciate YOU for the man you are, for your compassion for others, & most of all... for your LOVE! God Bless You!! :)
LOVE, PEACE, Joy, & BLESSINGS to ALL! :)
I agree with you 100%! I think that everything we have seen, all the different "looks", the different "characters", are all a part of Michael's "plan". His genius, is endless! I truly believe that there is nothing that Michael can't do! I don't think that we should ever underestimate his capabilities!
Callofthewild, i would just like to say thank you once again, for your "straight forward" and very "informative" information! God Bless you for that. To me it is obvious that what you say is the "truth" as you have spoken with the passion of someone who knows Michael, better then any of us here, that's for sure!
I think that all of us here need to open our eyes and our hearts to callofthewild, as he/she didn't need to offer us any information, but he/she did and how often in the last 13 months has that happened? Yes, there are many people who "claim" to know Michael or something about Michael and they are usually "fakes", but I truly believe that this time, we have been offered some "real" information, so I think we should be appreciative of that. If you don't believe in what Callofthewild is saying, then that is fine, but please, if you disagree, at least disagree with "Politeness". There is no need to be insulting or rude to anyone, at anytime! Remember my friends, you never know who is watching and reading these posts, so lets treat others like we ourselves would like to be treated. Think before you speak and always do everything with love.
We need to remember that "everything" happens for a reason, so please, don't be so quick to judge others!
Thanks again Callofthewild...god Bless You! Michael is truly a gift from God and I am so glad that I have had this chance to help spread love and awareness to others. in the end, all will be "revealed" and the "Truth will Prevail!" Until then, keep spreading the Love! :D
To my friend Michael...I love you most!..."Heart" To "Heart" <3
Dayna
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Time out. Show me where I criticized, was not nice to, or ridiculed anyone.
I simply said this person doesn't know for sure, same as the rest of us. I do feel if you're that confident about something that NO ONE knows the truth regarding, then you're likely compensating for feeling insecure about it. That's not an insult in my opinion. I don't know why anyone would take that as an insult.
Shit, I'm insecure as hell regarding a lot of aspects of this hoax. Aren't YOU?
Yeah there's a lot of nastiness on these hoax boards so I kind of get it. But I wasn't being nasty. You guys jumped to conclusions on me.
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not to start a fight or doubt your personal knowledge, but just playing devil's advocate...
In TII, the man you see performing is Michael Jackson. In each song and dance rehearsal, it's Michael Jackson. There are no doubles, fill ins, substitutes, stand ins or any other person pretending to be Michael Jackson. It is all 100% Michael Jackson. Whether wearing black pants, blue pants, orange pants, or whatever color pants, it is Michael Jackson.
blame Joe, he was the one who started the doubles talk in TII. :)
Michael was excited about the tour, about performing again, and he was not unhealthy.
what about the youtube video where he was complaining about the 50 shows? many fans have seen it, but it was taken down before anyone could download a copy.
this, too.
"The Newshound can today reveal that despite having been captured on camera arriving in London, Jackson still attempted to pull out of his press conference."
"The Newshound can exclusively reveal that Jackson had barricaded himself in his hotel room and spent several hours refusing to attend the press conference. Minders were forced to stand in the hotel corridor and plead with him through the door to his room. By the time he was persuaded to leave, he was already significantly late for the announcement."
more here:
http://lowlynewshound.blogspot.com/2010 ... press.html (http://lowlynewshound.blogspot.com/2010/07/50-nights-in-london-jackson-press.html)
other stories about how RP would get pissed because MJ was not attending rehearsals, and they would have a not-so-nice phone conversation, and then MJ would come and just to show Randy he held no grudge, he would tap RP on the back when he passes him by.
His weight wasn't 90 or 100 pounds. The last time I saw him - a little over a month before he died, or whatever the hell it was he did-, he looked to me to be about 130-140. He was happy, his kids were happy, and he was on top of the damned world. He was lucid. He was energetic. He was the freaking happiest I'd seen him in a very long time. The cloud that seemed to have hovered over him during the years since the trial was finally completely gone.
if you saw him last in May last year, TINI says they saw him right up till last rehearsal day, and he was skin and bones. not saying they're right because how would i know? but that's another story out there. there's the movie, though, and i didn't see a man weighing 130-140 pounds. he still looked very thin despite several layers of shirts.
all i'm saying is that if this is a smoke-and-mirrors kind of thing, we can never really be sure about what we're seeing, and i am not even referring to a double. things could have changed since the last time you saw him, or he could have been giving you that impression when the truth might be that he was having problems with AEG.
I can't tell you why Joe would say that wasn't Michael. I'm sorry I don't have a better answer for you, but I don't. Why does Joe say a lot of what Joe says? Editing to add text here: A lot of people pegged Mike as an enigma. Joe is really the enigma, or the one who can't be figured out. He says/does the most random things at the most inopportune times, yet he's smart as a fox. All I can say about Joe is, Joe is Joe, and LaToya is just like her father.
I've never seen the video of him complaining about doing fifty shows. I know he said he was excited about getting back on stage. Those were his words, not mine. Was he lying? Presenting a facade? It's possible, but I don't believe so. As for that media report, I've never seen it, nor do I put much faith in most of what I read about Mike. I don't know about his relationship with Randy Phillips or AEG. I didn't delve into his business. That was not the nature of my relationship with him. (The Randy I was referring to was his brother Randy).
I don't know who TINI is, or when he/she saw Mike, but the Michael Jackson I saw, conversed with, and hugged goodbye, the man I've known for nearly thirty five years, wasn't 'skin and bones'. Thin? Yes. Strong? Yes. But skin and bones? No. Fragile? No. Did he lose twenty or thirty pounds in a little over a month? I don't know. I doubt it. I know he was working out as it was mentioned in conversation. Could I be overestimating his weight by a few pounds based on my visual assessment? It's possible. I didn't demand he get on a scale to verify the numbers, but he was at least 130 when I saw him. He looked fine to me in TII. He wasn't anorexic. He wasn't sickly. He was vivacious. He was energetic and focused. He certainly wasn't drugged, or under the influence.
Call of the wild, I'll have to stop you right there. I don't know what argument is going on here but I saw that video in question, the one where MJ says he only signed on for 10 and woke up to 50. I saw it twice before they took it down and it haunts me till today. I think about it all the time. The person who made that vid is sitting pretty on lots of cash given by AEG to keep it down or it's going to surface at trial and is in evidence. I saw it. Another thing, MJ could have said he was excited. When asked how you are doing, even if you are having a horrible day we all say "good." Has MJ ever admitted to being afraid to anyone? During his trial, did he ever tell anyone anything negative? Of course he would say he was excited, that's part of his problem, he never shared his fears with anyone...he internalized everything and suffered alone! Vitiligo, Lupus, he never appeared weak. What would the media do with a man who didn't think he could complete 50 concerts or who was afraid he couldn't live up to everyone's expectations of him?. And the man was not 140 pounds.
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Time out. Show me where I criticized, was not nice to, or ridiculed anyone.
I simply said this person doesn't know for sure, same as the rest of us. I do feel if you're that confident about something that NO ONE knows the truth regarding, then you're likely compensating for feeling insecure about it. That's not an insult in my opinion. I don't know why anyone would take that as an insult.
Your above statement you don't think is ridiculing callofthewild? If you would have read His/Her posts you would know that they indeed know Michael and had spent time with Michael before he disappeared. It's almost as if you were calling him/her a liar, as you didn't think he knew what he was talking about. Which leads me to the response below...YOU are INSECURE regarding this hoax, so there is your answer to your questions about thinking everyone could be lying. Because you are insecure so you dismiss what others have to say. And to answer your question; no I am not insecure about this hoax. I am sitting back, soaking up information, making changes to the woman in the mirror & the planet we live on, and waiting to see what happens next. I have nothing to feel insecure about, if you ever want to talk to someone about how you feel please pm me and I would love to listen! I do not mean to hurt anyone, but I also don't like seeing others hurt as well! It's all for LOVE...Hugs & Blessing to all! :)
"Shit, I'm insecure as hell regarding a lot of aspects of this hoax. Aren't YOU?"
Yeah there's a lot of nastiness on these hoax boards so I kind of get it. But I wasn't being nasty. You guys jumped to conclusions on me.
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Time out. Show me where I criticized, was not nice to, or ridiculed anyone.
I simply said this person doesn't know for sure, same as the rest of us. I do feel if you're that confident about something that NO ONE knows the truth regarding, then you're likely compensating for feeling insecure about it. That's not an insult in my opinion. I don't know why anyone would take that as an insult.
Shit, I'm insecure as hell regarding a lot of aspects of this hoax. Aren't YOU?
Yeah there's a lot of nastiness on these hoax boards so I kind of get it. But I wasn't being nasty. You guys jumped to conclusions on me.
Bec, I understand your apprehension and I don't think anyone can blame you for wanting proof beyond doubt. It's been a long, emotional 13+ months and we are all tired of people who claim to be in the know. I have always appreciated your bold approach to finding the truth.
We've all seen our emotions go from very low to very high back to low. We want Michael back. We want to know that he's okay. We want justice to be served. We want the media to retract all of the horrible things they've published over the years. We want Sneddon to stand trial for destroying the reputation of an innocent man. We want the media to leave the children alone. We don't want to be deceived. We want Jermaine to stop taking Michael's accolade as he is talented in his own right. Etc, etc, etc.
It appears that you perceive this persons confidence as an overcompensation for insecurity. However, it could possibly be the opposite. It could be that this person, callofthewild, is confident because he/she knows the truth. He isn't making up wild stories about water fights and KFC at midnight. You know, the ones that people think we want to hear. His proof to me is in the lack of filler content. I try to keep in mind that the truth always prevails in the end. It's okay to take a step back and see how it plays out because sooner or later a liar will always get caught in their own trap.
I would like to end by saying that I don't feel in my heart that this will be the case this time. But time will tell. You've been patient all of these months, please don't get discouraged or think you are being picked on. We are on your side. Blessings to you.
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Time out. Show me where I criticized, was not nice to, or ridiculed anyone.
I simply said this person doesn't know for sure, same as the rest of us. I do feel if you're that confident about something that NO ONE knows the truth regarding, then you're likely compensating for feeling insecure about it. That's not an insult in my opinion. I don't know why anyone would take that as an insult.
Your above statement you don't think is ridiculing callofthewild? If you would have read His/Her posts you would know that they indeed know Michael and had spent time with Michael before he disappeared. It's almost as if you were calling him/her a liar, as you didn't think he knew what he was talking about. Which leads me to the response below...YOU are INSECURE regarding this hoax, so there is your answer to your questions about thinking everyone could be lying. Because you are insecure so you dismiss what others have to say. And to answer your question; no I am not insecure about this hoax. I am sitting back, soaking up information, making changes to the woman in the mirror & the planet we live on, and waiting to see what happens next. I have nothing to feel insecure about, if you ever want to talk to someone about how you feel please pm me and I would love to listen! I do not mean to hurt anyone, but I also don't like seeing others hurt as well! It's all for LOVE...Hugs & Blessing to all! :)
"Shit, I'm insecure as hell regarding a lot of aspects of this hoax. Aren't YOU?"
Yeah there's a lot of nastiness on these hoax boards so I kind of get it. But I wasn't being nasty. You guys jumped to conclusions on me.
That's a totally sweet post, thank you! But I think I'm failing to properly express myself. I was referring to being insecure about what are truths and what aren't regarding details and finer aspects of this hoax, like for example TII and doubles. I think these things will be debated until Michael comes back and tells us himself. No one on a message board is going to clear that up just cuz he/she says it's so. We just don't know, you know?
Now, someone wants to put up some proof to go with their words, then we're talking and in business.
and Ps. guys, there's no attack here. Just convo.
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Voiceforthesilent, thanks very much. I'm taken aback at how kind you were to me.
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Voiceforthesilent, thanks very much. I'm taken aback at how kind you were to me.
It's because you deserve to be treated nicely. Have a blessed night Bec.
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That's a totally sweet post, thank you! But I think I'm failing to properly express myself. I was referring to being insecure about what are truths and what aren't regarding details and finer aspects of this hoax, like for example TII and doubles. I think these things will be debated until Michael comes back and tells us himself. No one on a message board is going to clear that up just cuz he/she says it's so. We just don't know, you know?
Now, someone wants to put up some proof to go with their words, then we're talking and in business.
and Ps. guys, there's no attack here. Just convo.
What's in bold, Bec, I agree completely. Back when I didn't want to think that there were doubles at all, I used all of the power of suggestion I could from the board and I still couldn't see that dancing, those little shoulders, that face, as the real Michael Jackson.. In my view, that is not him- unless MJ himself shows me that it is, and not with just words..
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i think we're barking at the wrong tree. callofthewild has said she hasn't delved into the Mike-AEG business (unlike us who are all nosy :) , she doesn't know about TINI (they're the 'followers' and the group who started the call for MJ justice), she hasn't read much or didn't believe most of the MJ write-ups, and it seems she's never heard the story of Mike complaining about the 50 shows. (huh?) for sure, she says she hasn't seen the video. ( i haven't too.)
so maybe she's just here as Michael's friend, to defend him where she can (though we all love Mike here, for sure.)
still, given all of the above, i also think it's a bit carrying it too far when she states with absolute certainty that that was all Mike in the movie.
I'm sorry you find it hard to believe, but it's all Michael in TII.
In TII, the man you see performing is Michael Jackson. In each song and dance rehearsal, it's Michael Jackson. There are no doubles, fill ins, substitutes, stand ins or any other person pretending to be Michael Jackson. It is all 100% Michael Jackson. Whether wearing black pants, blue pants, orange pants, or whatever color pants, it is Michael Jackson.
callofthewild, i'm not saying you're wrong, but considering that you seem to know very little of what's happening in hoax city, how could you know for sure? such strong statements need tangible support, methinks.
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Just for the sake of speculating I wonder is it possible LMP, Debbie or Lou Ferrigno are on this forum?
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I'm not calling anyone a liar either but surely its natural for some of us to be wary of people who say they know MJ - I mean how do we know they know/knew him just because they say so? It may or may not be true - after all this time, I am still a skeptic who relies on proof to believe 100%. I believe in my own mind that MJ is still alive but I need that extra bit of proof to know for sure - as we all do.
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Oh..i only want a serious discussion about the differences, but i feel it was a emotional theme....sorry !
I respect every feeling and i by myself am sure that also in TII it wsn't all one Michael. The one who began with the Jackson 5 medley...yes Michael, he had the joy in his eyes and seems not so thin as the other, he was strong and fit and his....don't know the word...aura...was very nice !
So, again the hands.
OK, i am have had also thought about the camera perspective, the light, the age, the arthritis....BUT:
I can't find one pic with Michael and longer fingers at the trial 2005.
I can't find one pic from Michael in early years untill of the wall with shorter fingers.
Both hands are absolut different.
The slender hand: the fingers are longer then the hand without fingers....don't know how to explain... The lenghth can't change...fingers can swollen and locking older but in the ratio finger/ hand dosn't change.
The breadth of both hands is different.
The stronger hand has fingers that are as long as the hand, means shorter.
LaToya has the slender hand too, i think Janet too. I have to look about the hands of the brothers.....
So, i believe it can't be a illusion...then it would be more mixed pics from both hands at the same event.
Greetings !!! ;)
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I have noticed the difference in finger length too but didn't bother posting as people get to upset at the thought of MJ using a double that I didn't want to upset the applecart again but as this thread is being quite civilised, I am posting what I think here.
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Thank you Datroot.
I would like to read what is your impression.
I noticed the difference by watching Photo Books..." Early years " and " Never can say good bye " . Both books only show pics with the slender hands...not even one other pic and that is weird. Pics at the Memorial and the funeral...slender hands.
Coincidence ?
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Hopeless I agree totally. Something changed and not just arthritis or something like that. Michael has a distinct left ear marking/shape though, almost an M shape near the lobe and I saw that same ear from childhood/J5 on through the HIStory era BUT there were a few times in the BAD era I did not see that ear though. I feel like I'm in Romper Room. :D
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I have noticed the differences in photos over the years - I have seen a couple of pics at least where MJ's fingers look quite 'chubby' compared to others taken around the same time. Its really just a general observation of mine without going into too much investigation.
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MJ has eyes that never lie. Why focus on hands when you could just look into his deep chocolate eyes?
And as for hands, I should show you pics of mine and I can guarantee you, despite what you see on those pictures I am 100% me. :lol:
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I want to add that MJ was musician, we must not forget. Therefore, in my opinion, hands must were save grace, flexibility during life. :?
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i think we're barking at the wrong tree. callofthewild has said she hasn't delved into the Mike-AEG business (unlike us who are all nosy :) , she doesn't know about TINI (they're the 'followers' and the group who started the call for MJ justice), she hasn't read much or didn't believe most of the MJ write-ups, and it seems she's never heard the story of Mike complaining about the 50 shows. (huh?) for sure, she says she hasn't seen the video. ( i haven't too.)
so maybe she's just here as Michael's friend, to defend him where she can (though we all love Mike here, for sure.)
still, given all of the above, i also think it's a bit carrying it too far when she states with absolute certainty that that was all Mike in the movie.
I'm sorry you find it hard to believe, but it's all Michael in TII.
In TII, the man you see performing is Michael Jackson. In each song and dance rehearsal, it's Michael Jackson. There are no doubles, fill ins, substitutes, stand ins or any other person pretending to be Michael Jackson. It is all 100% Michael Jackson. Whether wearing black pants, blue pants, orange pants, or whatever color pants, it is Michael Jackson.
callofthewild, i'm not saying you're wrong, but considering that you seem to know very little of what's happening in hoax city, how could you know for sure? such strong statements need tangible support, methinks.
seems like the only way to be that positive is to have been there the whole time.
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It's definately MJ @ the O2 announcement...look @ his nailbeds, they are brownish in colour...
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I think it's Criss Angel honestly. Laugh if you want. I do not take offense to that because we are all investigating and without difference of opinions we would get nowhere in this. I'm not saying I'm positive nor am I saying you better think like me or I'll send a stink bomb to your computer.....I just have a strong hunch and am throwing it in the mix. And stop fighting people!!! Hold hands and think about super soakers!!!
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Each and every one of these pictures are Michael. The same Michael that began in Gary, In. as a six year old little boy. It's all Michael. Your hands can change over the course of time with age, weight fluctuation, arthritic conditions, and in his case, loss of pigmentation. They can look different in photographs because of angles, lighting and so forth.
He was never replaced by another Michael. Michael has always been Michael.
In TII, it was all Michael. In these pics, it's all Mike.
I'm totally with you :)
And, guys, are you gonna tell me this guy has short fingers?
Not in my life :lol: :lol:
I completely agree with both of you :)
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well, if we are bringing this subject up again....LOL
and I'm gonna say this... His hands don't look the same because they are the hands of a 50 year old man and not a 20 year old kid. This is the reason why no one can accept the fact that it was MJ at O2, because no one wants to see a 50 year old man taking the place of their handsome young heartthrob. No wonder MJ was such a recluse and addicted to surgery...because all his fans couldn't let him go...him being who he and what he looked like when he was young. The man wore wigs for you, tattooed his eyes for you, starved himself sick for you, and still we are so critical. Let the man be. Those fingers are his, arthritic and strong. They have seen more and done more than any of us can imagine...let him have his hands and let him be 50.
In TII, the man you see performing is Michael Jackson. In each song and dance rehearsal, it's Michael Jackson. There are no doubles, fill ins, substitutes, stand ins or any other person pretending to be Michael Jackson. It is all 100% Michael Jackson. Whether wearing black pants, blue pants, orange pants, or whatever color pants, it is Michael Jackson.
The hands in each photo belong to Michael Jackson.
Now I'm going to rant.
As for Randy's statement about Mike not approving of the film. Someone mentioned that in this thread I believe. That's a lie and Randy makes me angry by saying that. I will even venture to say he's pissed because he isn't getting one red cent from the sale of the movie.
It was Michael's idea to film this rehearsal just as he's filmed every rehearsal for every tour he's ever done. Michael was excited about the tour, about performing again, and he was not unhealthy. His weight wasn't 90 or 100 pounds. The last time I saw him - a little over a month before he died, or whatever the hell it was he did-, he looked to me to be about 130-140. I even told him he looked good for an old man. He was happy, his kids were happy, and he was on top of the damned world. I even told him the world was at his feet again - just as it should be. He wasn't paranoid. He was lucid. He was energetic. He was the freaking happiest I'd seen him in a very long time. The cloud that seemed to have hovered over him during the years since the trial was finally completely gone.
Back to the topic at hand.
And someone upthread posted a very interesting observation. The color and shape/lines of a garment can distort your height, weight, and your complexion. Black slims and lengthens you as do some colors. Was he wearing loafers or boots?
I'm editing to add: I read the comment about the colors in another thread. I've read so much on here my eyes are running together and I'm forgetting where certain things were when I read them. I'm on overload.
Also, strongly agree with both you guys on this, very well said!! And callofthewild thank you for sharing your experience with MJ with us.
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yes there is an overload of information. no wonder we are all starting to see doubles our eyes are probably becoming crossed :lol:
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Thank you Call of the wild!
I imagine it took a lot of strength to post your thoughts.
Those quick to judge need to step back a moment and let it simmer.
First if Callofthewild actually does know Michael personally then I feel honored that they even posted. OMG they know him enough to get a hug!! That in itself is a swoon!!
I do not know one person that knew him, I do not know one person that even went to one of his concerts! I know 2 people I met online that were at Madison Square Garden 9-10-2001, that's it.
Not every person in Michaels life was shady. I know about all the fakes on the net, sure we flock to tweets and such all the time.
But what if Michael was on this forum? Reading these threads and grinning his cute butt off? He would see a few that even refuse to listen to somebody that knew him.
So where is the LOVE? You don't have to agree with posts but be kind and most of all listen first and think long about what is said. We have been confused for so long why let in the beast of quick judgement so fast?
Michael- if you are reading this I hope you are well and you have to know we are here for you, we are waiting for the truth.
We L*O*V*E you very much!
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well, if we are bringing this subject up again....LOL
and I'm gonna say this... His hands don't look the same because they are the hands of a 50 year old man and not a 20 year old kid. This is the reason why no one can accept the fact that it was MJ at O2, because no one wants to see a 50 year old man taking the place of their handsome young heartthrob. No wonder MJ was such a recluse and addicted to surgery...because all his fans couldn't let him go...him being who he and what he looked like when he was young. The man wore wigs for you, tattooed his eyes for you, starved himself sick for you, and still we are so critical. Let the man be. Those fingers are his, arthritic and strong. They have seen more and done more than any of us can imagine...let him have his hands and let him be 50.
Also, strongly agree with both you guys on this, very well said!! And callofthewild thank you for sharing your experience with MJ with us.
I don't agree that this was well said, and for this reason: no one was criticizing O2 Dude's appearance. No one was saying that they "want his hands to look like a 20-year-old kid"! Heck, most of the pictures, videos, general gushing I encounter online is over MJ of the last five-or-so years, not when he was young, people adore the pale-and-black look.. Further, not just I but many people here believe that we have pretty solid reason to believe that MJ did not "starve himself sick" or believe that he has been "addicted to surgery", we are convinced in the belief that he used doubles with surgery and makeup to aid him when he couldn't be around due to sickness or danger, even if it sounds far-fetched to some, that's only because it's thinking far out of the box with reason to do so. Even if there are people who feel that way, they can just shut their loud mouths because their opinions shouldn't matter in the slightest with what MJ has to do with his life. No one has said they want him to be a young sex-god here.
Thank you Call of the wild!
I imagine it took a lot of strength to post your thoughts.
Those quick to judge need to step back a moment and let it simmer.
First if Callofthewild actually does know Michael personally then I feel honored that they even posted. OMG they know him enough to get a hug!! That in itself is a swoon!!
I do not know one person that knew him, I do not know one person that even went to one of his concerts! I know 2 people I met online that were at Madison Square Garden 9-10-2001, that's it.
Not every person in Michaels life was shady. I know about all the fakes on the net, sure we flock to tweets and such all the time.
But what if Michael was on this forum? Reading these threads and grinning his cute butt off? He would see a few that even refuse to listen to somebody that knew him.
So where is the LOVE? You don't have to agree with posts but be kind and most of all listen first and think long about what is said. We have been confused for so long why let in the beast of quick judgement so fast?
Michael- if you are reading this I hope you are well and you have to know we are here for you, we are waiting for the truth.
We L*O*V*E you very much!
2. B., I don't know what you're talking about, as no one was fighting with Call and even if they were they've certainly stopped now. We all know about the possibility of MJ's friends being online, maybe coming here, and I certainly think we shouldn't instantly doubt Call (I t would be great to meet one of his friends here), but the issue of knowing him or not aside, I, and I know others, simply do not agree with them about the doubles at the announcement and in TII. Nothing to do with them personally, as investigators, we need to know for sure whether there were or weren't.
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EDIT: Ignore the version of my post above, I made a typo
well, if we are bringing this subject up again....LOL
and I'm gonna say this... His hands don't look the same because they are the hands of a 50 year old man and not a 20 year old kid. This is the reason why no one can accept the fact that it was MJ at O2, because no one wants to see a 50 year old man taking the place of their handsome young heartthrob. No wonder MJ was such a recluse and addicted to surgery...because all his fans couldn't let him go...him being who he and what he looked like when he was young. The man wore wigs for you, tattooed his eyes for you, starved himself sick for you, and still we are so critical. Let the man be. Those fingers are his, arthritic and strong. They have seen more and done more than any of us can imagine...let him have his hands and let him be 50.
Also, strongly agree with both you guys on this, very well said!! And callofthewild thank you for sharing your experience with MJ with us.
I don't agree that this was well said, and for this reason: no one was criticizing O2 Dude's appearance. No one was saying that they "want his hands to look like a 20-year-old kid"! Heck, most of the pictures, videos, general gushing I encounter online is over MJ of the last five-or-so years, not when he was young, people adore the pale-and-black look.. Further, not just I but many people here believe that we have pretty solid reason to believe that MJ did not "starve himself sick" or believe that he has been "addicted to surgery", we are convinced in the belief that he used doubles with surgery and makeup to aid him when he couldn't be around due to sickness or danger, even if it sounds far-fetched to some, that's only because it's thinking far out of the box with reason to do so. Even if there are "fans" who feel in that critical way about his appearance, they can just shut their loud mouths because their opinions shouldn't matter in the slightest with what MJ has to do with his life. No one has said they want him to be a young sex-god here.
Thank you Call of the wild!
I imagine it took a lot of strength to post your thoughts.
Those quick to judge need to step back a moment and let it simmer.
First if Callofthewild actually does know Michael personally then I feel honored that they even posted. OMG they know him enough to get a hug!! That in itself is a swoon!!
I do not know one person that knew him, I do not know one person that even went to one of his concerts! I know 2 people I met online that were at Madison Square Garden 9-10-2001, that's it.
Not every person in Michaels life was shady. I know about all the fakes on the net, sure we flock to tweets and such all the time.
But what if Michael was on this forum? Reading these threads and grinning his cute butt off? He would see a few that even refuse to listen to somebody that knew him.
So where is the LOVE? You don't have to agree with posts but be kind and most of all listen first and think long about what is said. We have been confused for so long why let in the beast of quick judgement so fast?
Michael- if you are reading this I hope you are well and you have to know we are here for you, we are waiting for the truth.
We L*O*V*E you very much!
2. B., I don't know what you're talking about, as no one was fighting with Call and even if they were they've certainly stopped now. We all know about the possibility of MJ's friends being online, maybe coming here, and I certainly think we shouldn't instantly doubt Call (I t would be great to meet one of his friends here), but the issue of knowing him or not aside, I, and I know others, simply do not agree with them about the doubles at the announcement and in TII. Nothing to do with them personally, as investigators, we need to know for sure whether there were or weren't.
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i think we're barking at the wrong tree. callofthewild has said she hasn't delved into the Mike-AEG business (unlike us who are all nosy :) , she doesn't know about TINI (they're the 'followers' and the group who started the call for MJ justice), she hasn't read much or didn't believe most of the MJ write-ups, and it seems she's never heard the story of Mike complaining about the 50 shows. (huh?) for sure, she says she hasn't seen the video. ( i haven't too.)
so maybe she's just here as Michael's friend, to defend him where she can (though we all love Mike here, for sure.)
still, given all of the above, i also think it's a bit carrying it too far when she states with absolute certainty that that was all Mike in the movie.
I'm sorry you find it hard to believe, but it's all Michael in TII.
In TII, the man you see performing is Michael Jackson. In each song and dance rehearsal, it's Michael Jackson. There are no doubles, fill ins, substitutes, stand ins or any other person pretending to be Michael Jackson. It is all 100% Michael Jackson. Whether wearing black pants, blue pants, orange pants, or whatever color pants, it is Michael Jackson.
callofthewild, i'm not saying you're wrong, but considering that you seem to know very little of what's happening in hoax city, how could you know for sure? such strong statements need tangible support, methinks.
LOL - I certainly have fallen in love with each and every one of your personalities. I can picture the type of personalities each of you have and it's fun to see all of the special, unique, individuals that have been brought together for a common purpose - Michael Jackson. You make me laugh in a good way and I thank each of you.
I don't mean to laugh at you, but with you. However, I think we're all a bit crazy here now. Listen to us...would we rather live in hoax city or on reality lane? Sometimes we don't see the forest for the trees. It's okay to let something go if we don't agree. The truths will still be standing in the end. It's like separating the chaff from the wheat. Blessings to each of you.
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" 2. B., I don't know what you're talking about, as no one was fighting with Call and even if they were they've certainly stopped now. We all know about the possibility of MJ's friends being online, maybe coming here, and I certainly think we shouldn't instantly doubt Call (I t would be great to meet one of his friends here), but the issue of knowing him or not aside, I, and I know others, simply do not agree with them about the doubles at the announcement and in TII. Nothing to do with them personally, as investigators, we need to know for sure whether there were or weren't."
Pink Topaz- I didn't say anybody was fighting with Call. I said it took a lot of strength because I am sure there were others thinking 'yes yes we've heard that before, you are a friend of MJ's'
We shouldn't instantly doubt anything, that I agree with 100% ;)
I won't put my opinion down as to who the O2 guy was or the orange pants guy as I don't know MJ well enough to say for certain. I have loved MJ since he was a young man singing Off The Wall so I have been around watching a long time. I'll continue to watch and learn as much as I can. I know it won't count for much towards the hoax but why does it matter if MJ had a double do a few parts? It doesn't bother me and I kind of enjoyed watching the orange pants guy do his thing if he was MJ or was not. :lol:
Peace Love and Michael Jackson!!
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I won't put my opinion down as to who the O2 guy was or the orange pants guy as I don't know MJ well enough to say for certain. I have loved MJ since he was a young man singing Off The Wall so I have been around watching a long time. I'll continue to watch and learn as much as I can. I know it won't count for much towards the hoax but why does it matter if MJ had a double do a few parts? It doesn't bother me and I kind of enjoyed watching the orange pants guy do his thing if he was MJ or was not. :lol:
Peace Love and Michael Jackson!!
I've been watching for a long time too - since J5 cartoon on a Saturday morning at my friend's house! As far as the hoax goes, I personally don't find any evidence for it in doubles or indeed, many of the other things discussed here, interesting little diversions though they may be. And as far as MJ's real message goes, even the hoax isn't really important. He could be dead, and all he stood for and was trying to tell us would still be here. What the hoax is doing now and will do even more when it's all revealed, is bring the seriousness of his message to everyone's attention. I think we're pretty much all guilty of not really listening before. :cry:
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" ... As far as the hoax goes, I personally don't find any evidence for it in doubles or indeed, many of the other things discussed here, interesting little diversions though they may be. And as far as MJ's real message goes, even the hoax isn't really important. He could be dead, and all he stood for and was trying to tell us would still be here. What the hoax is doing now and will do even more when it's all revealed, is bring the seriousness of his message to everyone's attention. I think we're pretty much all guilty of not really listening before. :cry:"
Yes Curls that is true. Michael's real messages are the important thing.
It is easy to get swept up by the diversions, could be a case of "anything is better than nothing".
I feel so sad thinking that humans pushed MJ into doing the disappearing act.
Through my days I come across people that I just want to shake and tell them that MJ wouldn't act like that! Get a grip! LOVE is the message! sigh...
But I'm listening now Baby! When most of the world operates on lies, threats and you name it, I'm listening. And we need to continue to listen and try to "Make this a better world".
"When the power of love
overcomes the love of power,
the world will know peace."
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http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/MJHD/mjhd/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/hand-compare-3.jpg
Here I can see the same... spot in the midle finger
and he was thin in the early years and then he was more filled and when you gain some extra wait that is what happens
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I can't tell you why Joe would say that wasn't Michael. I'm sorry I don't have a better answer for you, but I don't. Why does Joe say a lot of what Joe says? Editing to add text here: A lot of people pegged Mike as an enigma. Joe is really the enigma, or the one who can't be figured out. He says/does the most random things at the most inopportune times, yet he's smart as a fox. All I can say about Joe is, Joe is Joe, and LaToya is just like her father.
I've never seen the video of him complaining about doing fifty shows. I know he said he was excited about getting back on stage. Those were his words, not mine. Was he lying? Presenting a facade? It's possible, but I don't believe so. As for that media report, I've never seen it, nor do I put much faith in most of what I read about Mike. I don't know about his relationship with Randy Phillips or AEG. I didn't delve into his business. That was not the nature of my relationship with him. (The Randy I was referring to was his brother Randy).
I don't know who TINI is, or when he/she saw Mike, but the Michael Jackson I saw, conversed with, and hugged goodbye, the man I've known for nearly thirty five years, wasn't 'skin and bones'. Thin? Yes. Strong? Yes. But skin and bones? No. Fragile? No. Did he lose twenty or thirty pounds in a little over a month? I don't know. I doubt it. I know he was working out as it was mentioned in conversation. Could I be overestimating his weight by a few pounds based on my visual assessment? It's possible. I didn't demand he get on a scale to verify the numbers, but he was at least 130 when I saw him. He looked fine to me in TII. He wasn't anorexic. He wasn't sickly. He was vivacious. He was energetic and focused. He certainly wasn't drugged, or under the influence.
Hi @callofthewild. I understand from all your posts that you could be distant family or assumed family and I am happy that you are partly here with us on this journey. I really would like to know why you would hug Michael goodbye when no one knew what would happen in a month's time?
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I can't tell you why Joe would say that wasn't Michael. I'm sorry I don't have a better answer for you, but I don't. Why does Joe say a lot of what Joe says? Editing to add text here: A lot of people pegged Mike as an enigma. Joe is really the enigma, or the one who can't be figured out. He says/does the most random things at the most inopportune times, yet he's smart as a fox. All I can say about Joe is, Joe is Joe, and LaToya is just like her father.
I've never seen the video of him complaining about doing fifty shows. I know he said he was excited about getting back on stage. Those were his words, not mine. Was he lying? Presenting a facade? It's possible, but I don't believe so. As for that media report, I've never seen it, nor do I put much faith in most of what I read about Mike. I don't know about his relationship with Randy Phillips or AEG. I didn't delve into his business. That was not the nature of my relationship with him. (The Randy I was referring to was his brother Randy).
I don't know who TINI is, or when he/she saw Mike, but the Michael Jackson I saw, conversed with, and hugged goodbye, the man I've known for nearly thirty five years, wasn't 'skin and bones'. Thin? Yes. Strong? Yes. But skin and bones? No. Fragile? No. Did he lose twenty or thirty pounds in a little over a month? I don't know. I doubt it. I know he was working out as it was mentioned in conversation. Could I be overestimating his weight by a few pounds based on my visual assessment? It's possible. I didn't demand he get on a scale to verify the numbers, but he was at least 130 when I saw him. He looked fine to me in TII. He wasn't anorexic. He wasn't sickly. He was vivacious. He was energetic and focused. He certainly wasn't drugged, or under the influence.
Hi @callofthewild. I understand from all your posts that you could be distant family or assumed family and I am happy that you are partly here with us on this journey. I really would like to know why you would hug Michael goodbye when no one knew what would happen in a month's time?
I always hug someone if i am leaving...
And if I see him the next day i will hug again...
Some people do and some people dont...
Nothing strange for me...so perhaps callofthewild does the same?
Chaps
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I can't tell you why Joe would say that wasn't Michael. I'm sorry I don't have a better answer for you, but I don't. Why does Joe say a lot of what Joe says? Editing to add text here: A lot of people pegged Mike as an enigma. Joe is really the enigma, or the one who can't be figured out. He says/does the most random things at the most inopportune times, yet he's smart as a fox. All I can say about Joe is, Joe is Joe, and LaToya is just like her father.
I've never seen the video of him complaining about doing fifty shows. I know he said he was excited about getting back on stage. Those were his words, not mine. Was he lying? Presenting a facade? It's possible, but I don't believe so. As for that media report, I've never seen it, nor do I put much faith in most of what I read about Mike. I don't know about his relationship with Randy Phillips or AEG. I didn't delve into his business. That was not the nature of my relationship with him. (The Randy I was referring to was his brother Randy).
I don't know who TINI is, or when he/she saw Mike, but the Michael Jackson I saw, conversed with, and hugged goodbye, the man I've known for nearly thirty five years, wasn't 'skin and bones'. Thin? Yes. Strong? Yes. But skin and bones? No. Fragile? No. Did he lose twenty or thirty pounds in a little over a month? I don't know. I doubt it. I know he was working out as it was mentioned in conversation. Could I be overestimating his weight by a few pounds based on my visual assessment? It's possible. I didn't demand he get on a scale to verify the numbers, but he was at least 130 when I saw him. He looked fine to me in TII. He wasn't anorexic. He wasn't sickly. He was vivacious. He was energetic and focused. He certainly wasn't drugged, or under the influence.
Hi @callofthewild. I understand from all your posts that you could be distant family or assumed family and I am happy that you are partly here with us on this journey. I really would like to know why you would hug Michael goodbye when no one knew what would happen in a month's time?
I always hug someone if i am leaving...
And if I see him the next day i will hug again...
Some people do and some people dont...
Nothing strange for me...so perhaps callofthewild does the same?
Chaps
Hi Chaps
Goodbye is usually final. If you are going to see someone again you just hug them bye.
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Each and every one of these pictures are Michael. The same Michael that began in Gary, In. as a six year old little boy. It's all Michael. Your hands can change over the course of time with age, weight fluctuation, arthritic conditions, and in his case, loss of pigmentation. They can look different in photographs because of angles, lighting and so forth.
He was never replaced by another Michael. Michael has always been Michael.
In TII, it was all Michael. In these pics, it's all Mike.
the red pants Michael in tii was really him? i saw him very diferent there...movements and all...just the one with the outfit from tdcau seems to be him, so the very thin Michael too...confused as always!
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.....Someone once said.. its not his death thats the hoax but his life.... I understand.
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hmm
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So I am not sure if this has been mentioned before, but I think the change in his hands as he grew older was due to his Lupus. My mother used to have the longest, slimmest, prettiest hands in the whole world, but she was diagnosed with Rheumatiod Arthritus not too long ago, (which is very similar to Lupus) and the disease has destroyed her hands. They look puffy and swollen, the nails have become colored, and they look nothing like they used to. I feel like Lupus is to blame when examining Michael's body as he aged. His hands, wrists, the way he walked. He became stiffer as he aged, as his body suffered the damage of the disease, bones would become deformed, but his case of Lupus does not look as bad as some I have seen, I have known people to die from Lupus before. Yet Michael through being a health nut through most of his life, lol, and being able to afford the best health care, looks like he managed the Lupus better than most as he aged.
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P.S. Michael is and has always been a beautiful man, who shared his gift to the world, and I love Michael, not for his hands, this is a quote I use quite often: I am mesmerized by this man. Infatuated. Inspired. And just completely, crazy for this man. Not crazy in the sense of how a crazy die heart woman would be, but in the way my soul looks at his soul and knows, that it is home. I love this man. And also: The truest and purest soul, I ever laid eyes upon.
I absolutely understand, (people where discussing this before, I feel, and this applies very much so to me), that we get stuck in the past and imagine Michael from the earlier years of Thriller, Bad, and Dangerous, and we forget that naturally he wouldn't look like he did back than, because simply he is in his 50's now. I feel bad that maybe he feels he has to compete with the Young Michael, when that isn't fair at all, he is the older Michael. I just pray and hope that he never feels bad for aging, because eventually everyone ages and dies and it isn't something a person should fear or stress about, yet I have this gut feeling that he does. I just hope that he is safe, and that he knows that we all love him, and that he doesn't have to feel pressured or anxious anymore, because we accept him and love him, just the way he is.
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So I am not sure if this has been mentioned before, but I think the change in his hands as he grew older was due to his Lupus. My mother used to have the longest, slimmest, prettiest hands in the whole world, but she was diagnosed with Rheumatiod Arthritus not too long ago, (which is very similar to Lupus) and the disease has destroyed her hands. They look puffy and swollen, the nails have become colored, and they look nothing like they used to. I feel like Lupus is to blame when examining Michael's body as he aged. His hands, wrists, the way he walked. He became stiffer as he aged, as his body suffered the damage of the disease, bones would become deformed, but his case of Lupus does not look as bad as some I have seen, I have known people to die from Lupus before. Yet Michael through being a health nut through most of his life, lol, and being able to afford the best health care, looks like he managed the Lupus better than most as he aged.
I think you are right about the hands cause Julia who is a member here told us some time ago that Michael's hads looked older than tye rest of him.BTW I'm sorry to hear about your mother :( ,now I know some things too cause my grandmother has also this painfull disease :cry: .I wish your mother all the health in the world,take care bearhug !!!!
P.S. Michael is and has always been a beautiful man, who shared his gift to the world, and I love Michael, not for his hands, this is a quote I use quite often: I am mesmerized by this man. Infatuated. Inspired. And just completely, crazy for this man. Not crazy in the sense of how a crazy die heart woman would be, but in the way my soul looks at his soul and knows, that it is home. I love this man. And also: The truest and purest soul, I ever laid eyes upon.
I absolutely understand, (people where discussing this before, I feel, and this applies very much so to me), that we get stuck in the past and imagine Michael from the earlier years of Thriller, Bad, and Dangerous, and we forget that naturally he wouldn't look like he did back than, because simply he is in his 50's now. I feel bad that maybe he feels he has to compete with the Young Michael, when that isn't fair at all, he is the older Michael. I just pray and hope that he never feels bad for aging, because eventually everyone ages and dies and it isn't something a person should fear or stress about, yet I have this gut feeling that he does. I just hope that he is safe, and that he knows that we all love him, and that he doesn't have to feel pressured or anxious anymore, because we accept him and love him, just the way he is.
Wow what a wonderful post you made,I really hope Michael can see this ,thank you very much bearhug bearhug bearhug !!!