Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators
Hoax Investigation => Michael's Life & Clues He Left Us => Michael's Health & Alleged Drug/Painkiller Addiction => Topic started by: wishingstar on July 13, 2010, 03:03:25 PM
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Hey guys.....
Something is bugging me....it is known that Michael wears a medical id bracelet.
We can see it in various pictures...trial pics, Exley pics etc.
I have looked around at TII pics or pictures from that time frame, I might be able to see it on a few. But not really sure........
does anyone have or know of clear recent photos in which we can see it?
Has far as I can tell, there is no mention of it within the paramedics report or autopsy report(did I miss it)..........wouldn't it be there? The paramedic report states he is allergic to thorizine (fyi...misspelling: should be thorazine, I think)
Where did they get this information....Murray, Alvarez....etc? I would think they would state on the report something like:
"....patient has medical id bracelet stating allergy to thorazine, lupus......"
and whatever else might pertain.......
wouldn't it be mentioned somewhere? Wouldn't he still be wearing it in 2009? He has lupus, he's allergic......it's not like he would have stopped wearing it, it's very important. Where is it?
What are your thoughts.........?
Thanks!
Blessings Always!
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allergic to thorazine? wow. how would they know that, i wonder? why would michael have ever taken that? i ask because thorazine is primarily used as an antipsychotic for people with extremely severe mental disorders (e.g. schizophrenia)
i suppose it could be used for other things like anxiety but it's such a heavy duty drug.
and not often used for other things.
anyone taking it feels like a zombie. i know this because i used to manage an outpatient clinic for the severly mentally ill.
but, to answer your question, i don't know about recent pics with the medical bracelet.
good question.
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I know nothing of the medical bracelet and frankly have never seen MJ wearing one in pics. It is interesting to find it if so.
It is odd you should speak of mental disorders.....because like anything else it could be nothing but rumor....but I recall many years ago MJ's brothers saying something to the effect that MJ was diagnosed with schizophrenia.
This of course, is a highly serious matter and I don't say it to disrespect MJ.....I love him.....so if he had this disorder it is only fair that it is discussed compassionately.
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I know nothing of the medical bracelet and frankly have never seen MJ wearing one in pics. It is interesting to find it if so.
It is odd you should speak of mental disorders.....because like anything else it could be nothing but rumor....but I recall many years ago MJ's brothers saying something to the effect that MJ was diagnosed with schizophrenia.
This of course, is a highly serious matter and I don't say it to disrespect MJ.....I love him.....so if he had this disorder it is only fair that it is discussed compassionately.
that's interesting. i'm not a supporter of thorazine use by the way. and in most circles, thorazine is not used as much anymore but int he 70's and 80's it was highly used to treat severe and persistent disorders. i have seen people on it. do you recall where you heard this info about schizophrenia and MJ?
to have this disorder to the degree where you need thorazine, would have made it difficult for him to have ever functioned well. certainly not at the genius level we've consistently seen MJ through his work or interviews.
in any case, i find this to be an interesting thread. i think i've seen one picture where michael had medical bracelet but i'm not sure when/where. i assumed it was for lupus. let's see if we can find any pictures at all.
as for the autopsy report, it's fake right? so maybe the person who died was allergic to thorazine but that wasn't michael.
INFO: http://www.sntp.net/drugs/thorazine.htm (http://www.sntp.net/drugs/thorazine.htm)
Psychiatric Drugs: Thorazine
"People's voices came through filtered, strange. They could not penetrate my Thorazine fog; and I could not escape my drug prison." - Janet Gotkin, testimony before the Senate Subcommittee on the Abuse and Misuse of Controlled Drugs in Institutions (1977)
"It's very hard to describe the effects of this drug and others like it. That's why we use strange words like "zombie". But in my case the experience became sheer torture." - Wade Hudson, testimony before the Senate Subcommittee on the Abuse and Misuse of Controlled Drugs in Institutions (1977)
"Frequent Effects: sedation, drowsiness, lethargy, difficult thinking, poor concentration, nightmares, emotional dullness, depression, despair . . ." - Dr. Calagari's Psychiatric Drugs (1987)
In 1954 the neuroleptic drug, Thorazine, began flooding the state mental hospitals. The neuroleptics are synonymous with tranquilizers and antipsychotics. The neuroleptics are the drug most commonly given to schizophrenics. The psychiatrist would like us to believe that drugs such as Thorazine "cure" the patient by repairing or altering "bad" brain chemistry (whatever that means. . .). But the truth is the drug involves a strong dulling of the mind and emotional functions, and that this is what acts to inhibit or "push the symptoms into the back ground". According to Jerry Avon, M.D.:
"My concern is that people are having their minds blunted in a way that probably does diminish their capacity to appreciate life". (Boston Globe, 1988)
To fully understand the nature and effects of drugs such as Thorazine, it is useful to go back and see what the early research psychiatrists themselves had to say about the drug. The two pioneers of Thorazine, Delay and Deniker, said about small doses of the drug in 1952:
"Sitting or lying, the patient is motionless in his bed, often pale and with eyelids lowered. He remains silent most of the time. If he is questioned, he answers slowly and deliberately in a monotonous and indifferent voice; he expresses himself in a few words and becomes silent".
In 1954, Canada's Heinz Lehmann described the "emotional indifference" and specifically called it the "aim" of the treatment. Like Deniker and Delay, he found "the patients under treatment display a lack of spontaneous interest in the environment. . .". Contrary to today's psychiatric PR, the early pioneers plainly stated there was no positive cure or reduction of the patient's delusional symptoms or hallucinatory phenomena. With stronger dosages, there is a marked dulling and blunting of the patient's overall awareness, motor control and "thereness". A 1950 textbook candidly reported the "lobotomylike" impact of Thorazine, and in 1958, Noyes and Kolb summarized in Modern Clinical Psychiatry:
"If the patient responds well to the drug, he develops and attitude of indifference both to his surroundings and to his symptoms".
The common factor is that the drug strongly reduces awareness and interest with the result the patient doesn't lose their symptoms, they lose interest in them.
Thorazine has been called a "chemical lobotomy" because of the similar effects it creates. Briefly, a lobotomy destroys partially or completely all functioning of the frontal lobes. The frontal lobes are unique to human beings and are the seat of the higher functions such as love, concern for others, empathy, self-insight, creativity, initiative, autonomy, rationality, abstract reasoning, judgment, future planning, foresight, will-power, determination and concentration. Without the frontal lobes it is impossible to be "human" in the fullest sense of the word; they are required for a civilized, effective, mature life. Without this "human" aspect a person is incapable of living a rewarding, happy and responsible life.
While the neuroleptics are toxic to most brain functions, disrupting nearly all of them, they have an especially well-documented impact on the dopamine neurotransmitter system. As any psychiatric textbook explains, dopamine neurotransmitters provide the major nerve pathways from the deeper brain to the frontal lobes and limbic system - the very same area attacked by surgical lobotomy. The disruption in the functioning of the frontal lobes results in the same effect - a greatly reduced person with dementia and reduction of awareness of self and the environment. They become "vegetables" - a body with very little mind or personality left.
While American psychiatrists continue to deny the obvious reality of chemical lobotomy, many European psychiatrists often acknowledge it openly, even in public and to the press. They can argue and play word games all they like - Thorazine is an extremely dangerous drug which does chemically what a lobotomy does surgically.
"The blunting of conscious motivation, and the inability to solve problems under the influence of chlorpromazine (Thorazine) resembles nothing so much as the effects of frontal lobotomy. . . Research has suggested that lobotomies and chemicals like chlorpromazine may cause their effects in the same way, by disrupting the activity of the neurochemical, dopamine. At any rate, a psychiatrist would be hard put to distinguish a lobotomized patient from one treated with chlorpromazine." - Peter Sterling, neuroanatomist, article Psychiatry's Drug Addiction, New Republic magazine (March 3, 1979)
Like surgical lobotomy, chemical lobotomy has no specific beneficial effect on any human problem or human being. It puts a chemical clamp on the higher brain of anyone. Therefore, the drugs can be used to subdue anyone.
In Tranquilizing of America (1979), Richard Hughes and Robert Brewin state:
"When used on a large population of institutionalized persons, as they are, they can help keep the house in order with the minimum program of activities and rehabilitation and the minimum number of attendants, aides, nurses, and doctors".
Again, there is no hiding the obvious real purpose of the drug. It saves money for the institutions and makes the people more manageable. Neuroleptic use is not rare or unusual. In fact,
"On many psychiatric wards the neuroleptics are given to 90 to 100 percent of the patients; in many nursing homes, to 50 percent or more of the old people; and in many institutions for persons with mental retardation, to 50 percent or more of the inmates. Neuroleptics are also used in children's facilities and in prisons." - Peter Breggin, Toxic Psychiatry
Neuroleptics have been used in the Soviet Union to quell political dissidents. Russian poet, Olga Iofe, was imprisoned and forcibly drugged. She was singled out for "treatment" after protesting against the resurgence of Stalinism. In Soviet Psychoprisons, says political scientist Harvey Fireside, "The massive drugs she was forcibly given were, in Dr. Norman Hirt's opinion, 'in fact a chemical lobotomy', in light of reports that, on her release, Iofe 'appears to be permanently damaged, an altered person' ".
On February 16, 1976, U.S. News and World Report quoted another Russian dissent who had been forced to take neuroleptics, in this case Haldol, "I was horrified to see how I deteriorated intellectually, morally and emotionally from day to day. My interest in political problems quickly disappeared, then my interest in scientific problems, and then my interest in my wife and children". The reader might assume he was given mega-doses of some especially deadly drug. On the contrary, "I was prescribed haloperidol (Haldol) in small doses."
The neuroleptics are also used in tranquilizing darts for subduing wild animals and in injections to permit the handling of domestic animals who become viscous. The psychiatrists continue to attempt to explain the mechanics of the neuroleptics as an alteration, for the better, of bad brain chemistry. The veterinary use of neuroleptics so undermines their antipsychotic theory that young psychiatrists are not taught about it.
Peter Breggin, M.D., psychiatrist, points out clearly that the purpose of Thorazine is to alter and disable normal brain functions. It is actually the HARM caused by the drug which produces the effect.
"The brain-disabling principle applies to all of the most potent psychiatric interventions - neuroleptics, antidepressants, lithium, electroshock, and psychosurgery. . . the major psychiatric treatments exert their primary or intended effect by disabling normal brain function. Neuroleptic lobotomy, for example, is not a side effect, but the sought-after clinical effect. Conversely, none of the major psychiatric interventions correct or improve existing brain dysfunction, such as any presumed biochemical imbalance. If the patient happens to suffer from brain dysfunction, then the psychiatric drug, electroshock, or psychosurgery will worsen or compound it."
The psychiatrists continue to promote and attempt to educate the public into believing Thorazine and other drugs "help" correct a mental disease. This is so far from the truth. That they even believe this themselves is meaningless. Whether or not some psychiatric patients have brain diseases (which has still never been verified - it's only a theory) is irrelevant to this brain-disabling principle. Even if someday a subtle defect is found in some mental patients, it will not change the damaging effect of the current treatments in use by psychiatry. Nor will it change the fact that the current treatments worsen brain function rather than improving it. If, for example, a person's emotional upset is caused by a hormonal problem, by a viral infection, or by ingestion of a hallucinogenic drug, the impact of the neuroleptics is still that of a lobotomy. The person now has his or her original brain damage and dysfunction plus a chemical lobotomy.
In summary, Thorazine, and all neuroleptics, cause chemical lobotomies with no specific therapeutic effect on any symptoms or problems. Their main impact is to blunt and subdue the individual. They also physically paralyze the body, acting as a chemical straightjacket. Additionally, these drugs are the cause of a plague of brain damage effecting up to half or more of long-term patients. Psychiatry refuses to accept these criticisms despite a large amount of evidence to the contrary. The psychiatric industry cannot tolerate dissemination of the truth as this strikes at the very core of their theoretical foundation (which is largely false).
As mentioned in other articles in this site, psychiatry and modern psychology have redefined the meaning of the word "psychology", and completely ignore addressing the person's actual problems they have with life and their own minds. The entire realm of personality, including thought, concentration, intention, imagination, goals, hopes, and dreams are omitted from the psychiatric approach. Dealing with these areas directly through counseling, support groups, religion or alternative methods such as meditation or visualization techniques, has been forgotten. The result is a complete attempt to control behavior ONLY, with absolutely no regard for the person themselves. It should be no surprise psychiatric methods actually inhibit and harm the basic aspects of the human personality which it's very nomenclature ignores and denies..
Psychiatry is a modern day belief system not dissimilar to the religious structures of the Spanish Inquisition. The psychiatrists are the High Priests, they tolerate no criticisms, will never alter their views despite all evidence to the contrary, and will fight relentlessly to maintain their positions of power and authority. What makes it worse though is that psychiatric theories, parading as "science", have insinuated themselves in nearly all aspects of modern society - government, law, medicine, sociology, social services, and education. Their influence is dulling the overall awareness and ability of the entire society.
(Much of the information in this article came from chapter 3 of Peter Breggin's classic expose on psychiatry, Toxic Psychiatry.)
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That, I think, is one of the scariest things I've ever read.
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That, I think, is one of the scariest things I've ever read.
i definitely agree. tens of thousands of people are given these type of drugs. keep in mind that if thorazine doesn't work or isn't used, then something else quite similar is. the modern psychiatric movement is scary and a whole other area of the NWO that needs to be fought against.
that said, i'm still curious as to how thorazine and mj or schizophrenia and mj ever got in the same sentence. bizarre! but i'd like to get to the bottom of the whole medical bracelet, thorazine and autopsy issue.
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allergic to thorazine? wow. how would they know that, i wonder? why would michael have ever taken that? i ask because thorazine is primarily used as an antipsychotic for people with extremely severe mental disorders (e.g. schizophrenia)
i suppose it could be used for other things like anxiety but it's such a heavy duty drug.
and not often used for other things.
anyone taking it feels like a zombie. i know this because i used to manage an outpatient clinic for the severly mentally ill.
but, to answer your question, i don't know about recent pics with the medical bracelet.
good question.
Could it have been prescribed for Dissociative Identity Disorder?
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found a pic of mj with the bracelet
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allergic to thorazine? wow. how would they know that, i wonder? why would michael have ever taken that? i ask because thorazine is primarily used as an antipsychotic for people with extremely severe mental disorders (e.g. schizophrenia)
i suppose it could be used for other things like anxiety but it's such a heavy duty drug.
and not often used for other things.
anyone taking it feels like a zombie. i know this because i used to manage an outpatient clinic for the severly mentally ill.
but, to answer your question, i don't know about recent pics with the medical bracelet.
good question.
Could it have been prescribed for Dissociative Identity Disorder?
I think so, eventhough I do strongly disagree that Michael had DID. I have a box set of almost every interview that Michael has ever given and I've listened to a number of radio interviews. From the time he was 11 or 12, his personality and thought constructs are extremely consistent, in my observation of these interviews. Not robotic though. Genuine and pure. I base this on having worked with people with poor to no personality construction although I'm not an expert but I have been exposed to severely mentally ill children, adolescents and adults.
Perhaps he was exposed to a certain conditioning (you've convinced me he was exposed to an awful lot of evil), but his mind and spirit was too strong for the affects to take hold to the degree of personality shredding.
That said, I do have to wonder how the medical bracelet and thorazine came up.
here's an article called:
CIA, mind control, Nazis, mk-ultra, ritual abuse information which references thorazine and DID.
http://ritualabuse.us/mindcontrol/mc-do ... formation/ (http://ritualabuse.us/mindcontrol/mc-documents-links/cia-mind-control-nazis-mk-ultra-ritual-abuse-information/)
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Remember the lyrics in just another part of me? Yore a vegatable!
While the neuroleptics are toxic to most brain functions, disrupting nearly all of them, they have an especially well-documented impact on the dopamine neurotransmitter system. As any psychiatric textbook explains, dopamine neurotransmitters provide the major nerve pathways from the deeper brain to the frontal lobes and limbic system - the very same area attacked by surgical lobotomy. The disruption in the functioning of the frontal lobes results in the same effect - a greatly reduced person with dementia and reduction of awareness of self and the environment.
They become "vegetables" - a body with very little mind or personality left.
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I knew you guys could help....many thanks :)
As for how I came upon this line of thought.......
1) I was looking through my "Remembering Michael" magazine here is the thread I posted about it:
viewtopic.php?f=49&t=10915 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=10915)
on page 9, there is an Exley photo of MJ, dressed in black, sitting with his left hand on his knee.....there is a bracelet clearly visible. Knowing that MJ has lupus I got curious and searched around. I found several sites that talk about the fact he wore one, here is one:
http://www.michaeljackson.com/ph/node/411106 (http://www.michaeljackson.com/ph/node/411106)
2) the thorazine information clearly shows on the paramedics report in that same magazine, page 61 (it is commonly misspelled thorizine)
I searched about the drug and was utterly surprised to find its usage, like what's listed here. Under what circumstances was it, he found out he was allergic to it? Why was he ever given that drug?
Anyways...you guys are awesome! I'll keep looking around........
BTW, in gematria: (sit down for this!)
spelled like it is on the paramedics report:
124 = Thorizine = Michael Jackson
spelled correctly:
116 = Thorazine = Liberian Girl
*I talked about gematria in a thread called, "Coincidences......?"
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=10681 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=10681)
Blessings Always!
L.O.V.E.
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And... and this is just my therory..... where is the post from a few days ago about Michael started changing in the 80s, wearing glasses to hide his eyes and the compared photos of his hairline , how sometimes he looked with vitiligo and others without, his face lighter then his hands ect.. I can't find it right now.... anyway, IF Michael became ill in the 80s and the poster ahead of me said that she heard years ago that the brothers said he was sick, then this is making more sence for me, because why would they use old photos from the 80s for the funereal and the memorial? Is it because thats when we last saw the REAL Michale Jackson? Being such a mony making machine, they just could'nt commit him, and the whole thing be over, this is when the impersonater shows up and when we start seeing the differances. And why the family is not showing the usual family grief over their loved one. And why the autopsy report looks like someone else. And sometime we saw the real one, maybe when he was feeling better, and other times the imposter and is why things look different. Maybe at some point in the 80s he became to bad and had to be commited, and the imposter took over full time.
Almost sounds like a book or a movie!
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And... and this is just my therory..... where is the post from a few days ago about Michael started changing in the 80s, wearing glasses to hide his eyes and the compared photos of his hairline , how sometimes he looked with vitiligo and others without, his face lighter then his hands ect.. I can't find it right now.... anyway, IF Michael became ill in the 80s and the poster ahead of me said that she heard years ago that the brothers said he was sick, then this is making more sence for me, because why would they use old photos from the 80s for the funereal and the memorial? Is it because thats when we last saw the REAL Michale Jackson? Being such a mony making machine, they just could'nt commit him, and the whole thing be over, this is when the impersonater shows up and when we start seeing the differances. And why the family is not showing the usual family grief over their loved one. And why the autopsy report looks like someone else. And sometime we saw the real one, maybe when he was feeling better, and other times the imposter and is why things look different. Maybe at some point in the 80s he became to bad and had to be commited, and the imposter took over full time.
Almost sounds like a book or a movie!
in some ways, this theory makes a lot of sense. i saw that video a few days ago that you're speaking about. but, what refutes this for me is michael as a singer and dancer. NO ONE can imitate him. no one. when he performs dangerous live on stage in germany or at the grammy's in the mid-90's, or sings the earth song, or accepts an award or gives an interview to geraldo in 2005, swoons sadly over diana ross at some world music thing -- wasn't that like 2006? etc. that is michael jackson. THE, michael jackson. again, there is consistency to me.
now, photos or random appearances -- well, perhaps this is when michael decides to use a double because it's a decoy and unfortunately, the cameras are always snapping.
i could totally hear michael saying, "i don't want to go to that party or award ceremony. i'm not performing and am just expected to show up so i don't want to go. let xyz go." lol. but performing and interviews? michael jackson was with us all the time until a year ago, imho.
i hear you jude, and it makes sense to a point but how do you explain the performances throughout the 80's, 90's and at least through 2001 with MSG anniversary and the 911 benefit?
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And... and this is just my therory..... where is the post from a few days ago about Michael started changing in the 80s, wearing glasses to hide his eyes and the compared photos of his hairline , how sometimes he looked with vitiligo and others without, his face lighter then his hands ect.. I can't find it right now.... anyway, IF Michael became ill in the 80s and the poster ahead of me said that she heard years ago that the brothers said he was sick, then this is making more sence for me, because why would they use old photos from the 80s for the funereal and the memorial? Is it because thats when we last saw the REAL Michale Jackson? Being such a mony making machine, they just could'nt commit him, and the whole thing be over, this is when the impersonater shows up and when we start seeing the differances. And why the family is not showing the usual family grief over their loved one. And why the autopsy report looks like someone else. And sometime we saw the real one, maybe when he was feeling better, and other times the imposter and is why things look different. Maybe at some point in the 80s he became to bad and had to be commited, and the imposter took over full time.
Almost sounds like a book or a movie!
WOW! that blew my mind....
almost strange enough to make sense :(
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And... and this is just my therory..... where is the post from a few days ago about Michael started changing in the 80s, wearing glasses to hide his eyes and the compared photos of his hairline , how sometimes he looked with vitiligo and others without, his face lighter then his hands ect.. I can't find it right now.... anyway, IF Michael became ill in the 80s and the poster ahead of me said that she heard years ago that the brothers said he was sick, then this is making more sence for me, because why would they use old photos from the 80s for the funereal and the memorial? Is it because thats when we last saw the REAL Michale Jackson? Being such a mony making machine, they just could'nt commit him, and the whole thing be over, this is when the impersonater shows up and when we start seeing the differances. And why the family is not showing the usual family grief over their loved one. And why the autopsy report looks like someone else. And sometime we saw the real one, maybe when he was feeling better, and other times the imposter and is why things look different. Maybe at some point in the 80s he became to bad and had to be commited, and the imposter took over full time.
Almost sounds like a book or a movie!
in some ways, this theory makes a lot of sense. i saw that video a few days ago that you're speaking about. but, what refutes this for me is michael as a singer and dancer. NO ONE can imitate him. no one. when he performs dangerous live on stage in germany or at the grammy's in the mid-90's, or sings the earth song, or accepts an award or gives an interview to geraldo in 2005, swoons sadly over diana ross at some world music thing -- wasn't that like 2006? etc. that is michael jackson. THE, michael jackson. again, there is consistency to me.
now, photos or random appearances -- well, perhaps this is when michael decides to use a double because it's a decoy and unfortunately, the cameras are always snapping.
i could totally hear michael saying, "i don't want to go to that party or award ceremony. i'm not performing and am just expected to show up so i don't want to go. let xyz go." lol. but performing and interviews? michael jackson was with us all the time until a year ago, imho.
i hear you jude, and it makes sense to a point but how do you explain the performances throughout the 80's, 90's and at least through 2001 with MSG anniversary and the 911 benefit?
I can only say that the imporsanator may have been the real genious, I dont really know
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Re: Nightmare play.Written by Michael..Starring MJ kids
by Jude » Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:00 pm
It's his handwriting! Heres another theroy I want to throw out there, please don't bash me, we are supposed to be investigators here.
What if, and I stress if, Michael became mentaly unstable and has been in seclusion ever since. It would explain alot regarding his family's lack of emotional grief, after all hes still alive but not with us anymore, his children still see him and the rest of the family is carrying on and actually benifiting from it, its brillint actually, listen, it would'nt be the first time a GENIUS HAS LOST THEIR MIND, and IMO a plausable theory. For anyone out there who cannot accept anything other then , hes coming back , have a towel over their heads, for this family to go through everything so far, seems a bit too much just to have him appear again out of the blue, no , These notes shed a new light on things for me, and if we are all honest with ourselves, it could very well be possible.
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How do you post view topic?
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And... and this is just my therory..... where is the post from a few days ago about Michael started changing in the 80s, wearing glasses to hide his eyes and the compared photos of his hairline , how sometimes he looked with vitiligo and others without, his face lighter then his hands ect.. I can't find it right now.... anyway, IF Michael became ill in the 80s and the poster ahead of me said that she heard years ago that the brothers said he was sick, then this is making more sence for me, because why would they use old photos from the 80s for the funereal and the memorial? Is it because thats when we last saw the REAL Michale Jackson? Being such a mony making machine, they just could'nt commit him, and the whole thing be over, this is when the impersonater shows up and when we start seeing the differances. And why the family is not showing the usual family grief over their loved one. And why the autopsy report looks like someone else. And sometime we saw the real one, maybe when he was feeling better, and other times the imposter and is why things look different. Maybe at some point in the 80s he became to bad and had to be commited, and the imposter took over full time.
Almost sounds like a book or a movie!
in some ways, this theory makes a lot of sense. i saw that video a few days ago that you're speaking about. but, what refutes this for me is michael as a singer and dancer. NO ONE can imitate him. no one. when he performs dangerous live on stage in germany or at the grammy's in the mid-90's, or sings the earth song, or accepts an award or gives an interview to geraldo in 2005, swoons sadly over diana ross at some world music thing -- wasn't that like 2006? etc. that is michael jackson. THE, michael jackson. again, there is consistency to me.
now, photos or random appearances -- well, perhaps this is when michael decides to use a double because it's a decoy and unfortunately, the cameras are always snapping.
i could totally hear michael saying, "i don't want to go to that party or award ceremony. i'm not performing and am just expected to show up so i don't want to go. let xyz go." lol. but performing and interviews? michael jackson was with us all the time until a year ago, imho.
i hear you jude, and it makes sense to a point but how do you explain the performances throughout the 80's, 90's and at least through 2001 with MSG anniversary and the 911 benefit?
I can only say that the imporsanator may have been the real genious, I dont really know
No comment. :(
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Re: Nightmare play.Written by Michael..Starring MJ kids
by Jude » Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:00 pm
It's his handwriting! Heres another theroy I want to throw out there, please don't bash me, we are supposed to be investigators here.
What if, and I stress if, Michael became mentaly unstable and has been in seclusion ever since. It would explain alot regarding his family's lack of emotional grief, after all hes still alive but not with us anymore, his children still see him and the rest of the family is carrying on and actually benifiting from it, its brillint actually, listen, it would'nt be the first time a GENIUS HAS LOST THEIR MIND, and IMO a plausable theory. For anyone out there who cannot accept anything other then , hes coming back , have a towel over their heads, for this family to go through everything so far, seems a bit too much just to have him appear again out of the blue, no , These notes shed a new light on things for me, and if we are all honest with ourselves, it could very well be possible.
My, my. It's almost as if the believers are starting to bash beloved Michael and second guess him too. Does anyone think this man really existed as a genius who was in his right mind? I do!
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Re: Nightmare play.Written by Michael..Starring MJ kids
by Jude » Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:00 pm
It's his handwriting! Heres another theroy I want to throw out there, please don't bash me, we are supposed to be investigators here.
What if, and I stress if, Michael became mentaly unstable and has been in seclusion ever since. It would explain alot regarding his family's lack of emotional grief, after all hes still alive but not with us anymore, his children still see him and the rest of the family is carrying on and actually benifiting from it, its brillint actually, listen, it would'nt be the first time a GENIUS HAS LOST THEIR MIND, and IMO a plausable theory. For anyone out there who cannot accept anything other then , hes coming back , have a towel over their heads, for this family to go through everything so far, seems a bit too much just to have him appear again out of the blue, no , These notes shed a new light on things for me, and if we are all honest with ourselves, it could very well be possible.
My, my. It's almost as if the believers are starting to bash beloved Michael and second guess him too. Does anyone think this man really existed as a genius who was in his right mind? I do!
Hey , anything is possible when it comes to this family, and I think most of us here has come to that agreement.
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Wow guys...
I so did not mean to set off a firestorm here. I just posted a few random thoughts that were bugging me......LOL, the original question...
why wasn't this bracelet talked about or mentioned by paramedic report, hospital or autopsy or family or anything ? Big thanks to katoooooo for the pic!
I admire the thought tenacity here....you guys are amazing, truly. Thank you!
I totally believe Michael has always been in the right state of mind. Although, the theory here is interesting. I think the fact that it's on the paramedic report is interesting.....the allergy. And the fact it's misspelled......I read somewhere Michael is a not a great speller (LOL, me either!)and that he may have even written the report. I would think someone in the medical field would spell it correctly, or look it up. Remember what I wrote a few posts ago.....the gematria matches for both spellings.....I ask you, what are the odds?
Truly, thank you for the help. It's a long and winding road..........
Blessings to all!
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The following information was taken from http://www.americanmedical-id.com (http://www.americanmedical-id.com)
If you have ongoing medical conditions, drug or food allergies, or are taking multiple medicines, you should wear a medical ID alert. An engraved medical ID bracelet or necklace presenting a concise overview of your conditions, allergies and medicines will alert a doctor or medic before starting treatment. Informing medical personnel about your unique medical conditions and needs will greatly aid pre-hospital care.
Below is a partial list of ailments or persons who should wear a medical ID:
* Diabetes
* Heart disease (angina, atrial fibrillation, pacemakers)
* Blood thinners/anticoagulants (Coumadin/Warfarin)/even aspirin
* Drug allergies (such as Penicillin)
* Food allergies (such as peanut)
* Insect allergies (such as bee stings)
* Alzheimer's/Dementia/Memory impairment
* Anemia
* Ankylosing Spondylitis
* Arrhythmias
* Asthma
* Autism
* ADD/ADHD
* Bariatric surgery patients
* Blood disorders
* Breathing disorders
* Cerebral Palsy
* Clinical trial patients
* COPD
* Cystic Fibrosis
* Emphysema
* Epilepsy, seizures
* Hearing, sight or mentally impaired
* Hypertension
* Kidney failure
* Mental health patients
* Multiple Sclerosis
* Parkinson's Disease
* People taking multiple medications
* Rare diseases
* Special needs children
* Stroke risk
* Surgery, transplant or cancer patients
* Tourette Syndrome
These medical ailments demand a medical ID. In particular, many individuals suffer from allergies or asthma yet do not wear an allergy bracelet or asthma ID. Or for those suffering from epilepsy, an epilepsy bracelet is a must. If you're unsure whether you need to wear a medical ID tag, consult your physician or pharmacist. Or, if you prefer, contact our office for assistance.
Medical IDs are also recommended for family caregivers, in case they are ever in an accident, to ensure their loved one can get the care they need.
I was very curious to see what ailments were most likely to require a medical alert bracelet. I find it interesting to read that thorazine was incorrectly spelled....perhaps that indicates something huge??? At least I hope so. I am frankly in the dark on this one as I agree with Soldier of Love----I find it difficult to believe that MJ could function at his high level with this disorder. Plus, for the life of me, I cannot place the source of that quote. However, I do know that I read it somewhere long before MJ "died" and long before rumors were rampant. Let's hope this is incorrect like much of the other stuff out there we need to weed through.
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Maybe MJ discovered he was being druggd with thorazine without his knowledge and had the bracelet made for self-defense? I remember Samantha followed him one time to Dr. Kleins and when he came out she said he was really *out of it* like heavily drugged. Also heard not long ago that someone *very close* to him may even have been attempting to drug him. (And yes, I too read that Jermaine had said he was diagnosed with Schizo when very young)
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Maybe MJ discovered he was being druggd with thorazine without his knowledge and had the bracelet made for self-defense? I remember Samantha followed him one time to Dr. Kleins and when he came out she said he was really *out of it* like heavily drugged. Also heard not long ago that someone *very close* to him may even have been attempting to drug him. (And yes, I too read that Jermaine had said he was diagnosed with Schizo when very young)
You heard that too, we need to find it, this could be big. Just makes too much sense
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What I found is that IAN HALPERIN says one of the brothers told him that Michael was diagnosed with schizophrenia. There's an article online that Halperin wrote and in the same article he mentions the gay lovers. So, anything Halperin says is probably not worth the paper it's written on.
I did find a description of use of the drug and it says that sometimes, Thorazine is given to
nervous patients before surgery. I can't imagine that any hospital would do this, but perhaps this is the connection?
Childhood schizophrenia can be very severe - like adult onset - and primarily, it would be hard for a child to function and consistently concentrate for long periods of time.
Schizoid type features is different. This could be mild cases of paranoia or "strange behaviors". But, schizoid type features wouldn't/shouldn't rise to the level of needing to be managed by any anti-psychotic drug, particularly thorazine.
I don't know how prevalent it is to give thorazine to a surgery patient but perhaps the thorazine is treatment for the fear of surgery and extreme agitation before surgery.
I feel sorry for anyone who's be given that drug before an operation!
Perhaps we can let this rest with the possibility of a surgery drug?
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What I found is that IAN HALPERIN says one of the brothers told him that Michael was diagnosed with schizophrenia. There's an article online that Halperin wrote and in the same article he mentions the gay lovers. So, anything Halperin says is probably not worth the paper it's written on.
I did find a description of use of the drug and it says that sometimes, Thorazine is given to
nervous patients before surgery. I can't imagine that any hospital would do this, but perhaps this is the connection?
Childhood schizophrenia can be very severe - like adult onset - and primarily, it would be hard for a child to function and consistently concentrate for long periods of time.
Schizoid type features is different. This could be mild cases of paranoia or "strange behaviors". But, schizoid type features wouldn't/shouldn't rise to the level of needing to be managed by any anti-psychotic drug, particularly thorazine.
I don't know how prevalent it is to give thorazine to a surgery patient but perhaps the thorazine is treatment for the fear of surgery and extreme agitation before surgery.
I feel sorry for anyone who's be given that drug before an operation!
Perhaps we can let this rest with the possibility of a surgery drug?
Why? Because it dosn't fit with your ideas? This as good a possiblity as any, we get here and preach about how Michael is just a normale human being, but hey, don't anyone dare apply normal human possablities to him, it's an oxymoron, and an insult to the millions of mental health patients around the world, the old sterio type is still alive and kicking about mental health . No wonder He ran away!
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allergic to thorazine? wow. how would they know that, i wonder? why would michael have ever taken that? i ask because thorazine is primarily used as an antipsychotic for people with extremely severe mental disorders (e.g. schizophrenia)
i suppose it could be used for other things like anxiety but it's such a heavy duty drug.
and not often used for other things.
anyone taking it feels like a zombie. i know this because i used to manage an outpatient clinic for the severly mentally ill.
but, to answer your question, i don't know about recent pics with the medical bracelet.
good question.
Could it have been prescribed for Dissociative Identity Disorder?
I think so, eventhough I do strongly disagree that Michael had DID. I have a box set of almost every interview that Michael has ever given and I've listened to a number of radio interviews. From the time he was 11 or 12, his personality and thought constructs are extremely consistent, in my observation of these interviews. Not robotic though. Genuine and pure. I base this on having worked with people with poor to no personality construction although I'm not an expert but I have been exposed to severely mentally ill children, adolescents and adults.
Perhaps he was exposed to a certain conditioning (you've convinced me he was exposed to an awful lot of evil), but his mind and spirit was too strong for the affects to take hold to the degree of personality shredding.
That said, I do have to wonder how the medical bracelet and thorazine came up.
here's an article called:
CIA, mind control, Nazis, mk-ultra, ritual abuse information which references thorazine and DID.
http://ritualabuse.us/mindcontrol/mc-do ... formation/ (http://ritualabuse.us/mindcontrol/mc-documents-links/cia-mind-control-nazis-mk-ultra-ritual-abuse-information/)
I do think it's because of the thorazine and I do think Mike has DID. It's the base of every mind control program. Split the brain in pieces so you can program the bits and trigger every personality you want: Childlike Michael, feminine Michael, the beast on stage... You can see them in the Bashir tapes, and also in other interviews. To me it's quite clear that there is more than one Mike in that brain.
I do agree with you when you say his mind and spirit was strong, that is why he managed to go get therapy in the late 80's. If you see the Geraldo interview, I think that is where we see the real Mike.
When a person with DID gets therapy, it gets way worse before it gets better. That would explain the huge appearance changes between 2000 and 2004. After that he looked relaxed and himself, which makes me think he has it under control now. Yet it will never go away, you still have DID. That is why I think he wears the bracelet.
I want to point out that I am not saying he has been someone else every time we saw him in between those years. I am also not saying that one of his alters was a humanitarian and that he himself is a selfish dick, I think the real Mike is the person all the fans love so much, although I do think he might be more 'normal' than many think.
I hope I expressed that in a way I didn't offend anyone, but this is what I truly believe, the signs are everywhere.
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allergic to thorazine? wow. how would they know that, i wonder? why would michael have ever taken that? i ask because thorazine is primarily used as an antipsychotic for people with extremely severe mental disorders (e.g. schizophrenia)
i suppose it could be used for other things like anxiety but it's such a heavy duty drug.
and not often used for other things.
anyone taking it feels like a zombie. i know this because i used to manage an outpatient clinic for the severly mentally ill.
but, to answer your question, i don't know about recent pics with the medical bracelet.
good question.
Could it have been prescribed for Dissociative Identity Disorder?
I think so, eventhough I do strongly disagree that Michael had DID. I have a box set of almost every interview that Michael has ever given and I've listened to a number of radio interviews. From the time he was 11 or 12, his personality and thought constructs are extremely consistent, in my observation of these interviews. Not robotic though. Genuine and pure. I base this on having worked with people with poor to no personality construction although I'm not an expert but I have been exposed to severely mentally ill children, adolescents and adults.
Perhaps he was exposed to a certain conditioning (you've convinced me he was exposed to an awful lot of evil), but his mind and spirit was too strong for the affects to take hold to the degree of personality shredding.
That said, I do have to wonder how the medical bracelet and thorazine came up.
here's an article called:
CIA, mind control, Nazis, mk-ultra, ritual abuse information which references thorazine and DID.
http://ritualabuse.us/mindcontrol/mc-do ... formation/ (http://ritualabuse.us/mindcontrol/mc-documents-links/cia-mind-control-nazis-mk-ultra-ritual-abuse-information/)
I do think it's because of the thorazine and I do think Mike has DID. It's the base of every mind control program. Split the brain in pieces so you can program the bits and trigger every personality you want: Childlike Michael, feminine Michael, the beast on stage... You can see them in the Bashir tapes, and also in other interviews. To me it's quite clear that there is more than one Mike in that brain.
I do agree with you when you say his mind and spirit was strong, that is why he managed to go get therapy in the late 80's. If you see the Geraldo interview, I think that is where we see the real Mike.
When a person with DID gets therapy, it gets way worse before it gets better. That would explain the huge appearance changes between 2000 and 2004. After that he looked relaxed and himself, which makes me think he has it under control now. Yet it will never go away, you still have DID. That is why I think he wears the bracelet.
I want to point out that I am not saying he has been someone else every time we saw him in between those years. I am also not saying that one of his alters was a humanitarian and that he himself is a selfish dick, I think the real Mike is the person all the fans love so much, although I do think he might be more 'normal' than many think.
I hope I expressed that in a way I didn't offend anyone, but this is what I truly believe, the signs are everywhere.
Very well put, Souza. I agree with you 100%. I was a bit reluctant to even consider the possiblility of DID at first, but once I got over the initial denial and shock and started reading, it is the concept that makes most sense to me and explains SO much.
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I agree with you Souza, I've been investagating mind control and Illuminate for 3 + years, and you are right, when the brain is partition off like that, it opens up any and all possiblities, this is as big as it gets as far as I'm concerend, and the possiblities are endless, it all just makes too much sense to me, if during one of the mind control episodes he became schizo, then they would experiment with the drug mentioned above, theses are ruthless, uncaring,inhuman,entities and saw Mike as the ultimate way to control the masses, being as popular as he was. This deserves any and all of us to investagate the possibility.
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allergic to thorazine? wow. how would they know that, i wonder? why would michael have ever taken that? i ask because thorazine is primarily used as an antipsychotic for people with extremely severe mental disorders (e.g. schizophrenia)
i suppose it could be used for other things like anxiety but it's such a heavy duty drug.
and not often used for other things.
anyone taking it feels like a zombie. i know this because i used to manage an outpatient clinic for the severly mentally ill.
but, to answer your question, i don't know about recent pics with the medical bracelet.
good question.
Could it have been prescribed for Dissociative Identity Disorder?
I think so, eventhough I do strongly disagree that Michael had DID. I have a box set of almost every interview that Michael has ever given and I've listened to a number of radio interviews. From the time he was 11 or 12, his personality and thought constructs are extremely consistent, in my observation of these interviews. Not robotic though. Genuine and pure. I base this on having worked with people with poor to no personality construction although I'm not an expert but I have been exposed to severely mentally ill children, adolescents and adults.
Perhaps he was exposed to a certain conditioning (you've convinced me he was exposed to an awful lot of evil), but his mind and spirit was too strong for the affects to take hold to the degree of personality shredding.
That said, I do have to wonder how the medical bracelet and thorazine came up.
here's an article called:
CIA, mind control, Nazis, mk-ultra, ritual abuse information which references thorazine and DID.
http://ritualabuse.us/mindcontrol/mc-do ... formation/ (http://ritualabuse.us/mindcontrol/mc-documents-links/cia-mind-control-nazis-mk-ultra-ritual-abuse-information/)
I do think it's because of the thorazine and I do think Mike has DID. It's the base of every mind control program. Split the brain in pieces so you can program the bits and trigger every personality you want: Childlike Michael, feminine Michael, the beast on stage... You can see them in the Bashir tapes, and also in other interviews. To me it's quite clear that there is more than one Mike in that brain.
I do agree with you when you say his mind and spirit was strong, that is why he managed to go get therapy in the late 80's. If you see the Geraldo interview, I think that is where we see the real Mike.
When a person with DID gets therapy, it gets way worse before it gets better. That would explain the huge appearance changes between 2000 and 2004. After that he looked relaxed and himself, which makes me think he has it under control now. Yet it will never go away, you still have DID. That is why I think he wears the bracelet.
I want to point out that I am not saying he has been someone else every time we saw him in between those years. I am also not saying that one of his alters was a humanitarian and that he himself is a selfish dick, I think the real Mike is the person all the fans love so much, although I do think he might be more 'normal' than many think.
I hope I expressed that in a way I didn't offend anyone, but this is what I truly believe, the signs are everywhere.
Yes, you said just what I think, too, BUT I know there are doubles in "Living With", because when I watched it on YT all the way in 2008 when I knew nothing about him, I noticed that he just looked so ridiculously different from interview to interview- and that show still puzzles me so dang much because I just don't know why he would do it if he knew he was going through that alter therapy..
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allergic to thorazine? wow. how would they know that, i wonder? why would michael have ever taken that? i ask because thorazine is primarily used as an antipsychotic for people with extremely severe mental disorders (e.g. schizophrenia)
i suppose it could be used for other things like anxiety but it's such a heavy duty drug.
and not often used for other things.
anyone taking it feels like a zombie. i know this because i used to manage an outpatient clinic for the severly mentally ill.
but, to answer your question, i don't know about recent pics with the medical bracelet.
good question.
Could it have been prescribed for Dissociative Identity Disorder?
I think so, eventhough I do strongly disagree that Michael had DID. I have a box set of almost every interview that Michael has ever given and I've listened to a number of radio interviews. From the time he was 11 or 12, his personality and thought constructs are extremely consistent, in my observation of these interviews. Not robotic though. Genuine and pure. I base this on having worked with people with poor to no personality construction although I'm not an expert but I have been exposed to severely mentally ill children, adolescents and adults.
Perhaps he was exposed to a certain conditioning (you've convinced me he was exposed to an awful lot of evil), but his mind and spirit was too strong for the affects to take hold to the degree of personality shredding.
That said, I do have to wonder how the medical bracelet and thorazine came up.
here's an article called:
CIA, mind control, Nazis, mk-ultra, ritual abuse information which references thorazine and DID.
http://ritualabuse.us/mindcontrol/mc-do ... formation/ (http://ritualabuse.us/mindcontrol/mc-documents-links/cia-mind-control-nazis-mk-ultra-ritual-abuse-information/)
I do think it's because of the thorazine and I do think Mike has DID. It's the base of every mind control program. Split the brain in pieces so you can program the bits and trigger every personality you want: Childlike Michael, feminine Michael, the beast on stage... You can see them in the Bashir tapes, and also in other interviews. To me it's quite clear that there is more than one Mike in that brain.
I do agree with you when you say his mind and spirit was strong, that is why he managed to go get therapy in the late 80's. If you see the Geraldo interview, I think that is where we see the real Mike.
When a person with DID gets therapy, it gets way worse before it gets better. That would explain the huge appearance changes between 2000 and 2004. After that he looked relaxed and himself, which makes me think he has it under control now. Yet it will never go away, you still have DID. That is why I think he wears the bracelet.
I want to point out that I am not saying he has been someone else every time we saw him in between those years. I am also not saying that one of his alters was a humanitarian and that he himself is a selfish dick, I think the real Mike is the person all the fans love so much, although I do think he might be more 'normal' than many think.
I hope I expressed that in a way I didn't offend anyone, but this is what I truly believe, the signs are everywhere.
Yes, you said just what I think, too, BUT I know there are doubles in "Living With", because when I watched it on YT all the way in 2008 when I knew nothing about him, I noticed that he just looked so ridiculously different from interview to interview- and that show still puzzles me so dang much because I just don't know why he would do it if he knew he was going through that alter therapy..
I am still puzzled on all the Mikes as well, and it will probably stay that way :lol:
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O-o-oh, please don't say that, Souza, I wanna kno-o-w somehow somewa-a-y..! *collapse*
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorpromazine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorpromazine) ( whole story)
Adverse effects
The main side effects of chlorpromazine are due to its anticholinergic properties; these effects overshadow and counteract, to some extent, the extrapyramidal side effects typical of many early generation antipsychotics. These include sedation, slurred speech, dry mouth, constipation, urinary retention and possible lowering of seizure threshold. Appetite may be increased with resultant weight gain, Glucose tolerance may be impaired.[21] It lowers blood pressure with accompanying dizziness.[14] Chlorpromazine, which has sedating effects, will increase sleep time when given at high doses or when first administered, although tolerance usually develops.[22] Sleep cycles or REM sleep is not altered by antipsychotics.[23]
Dermatological reactions are frequently observed. In fact three types of skin disorders are observed: hypersensitivity reaction, contact dermatitis, and photosensitivity. During long-term therapy in schizophrenic patients chlorpromazine can induce abnormal pigmentation of the skin. This can be manifested as gray-blue pigmentation in regions exposed to sunlight.[22]
Scary stuff. This stuff is developed and used since the 50'ies. Makes me think about mk-ultra as well. That was also in the 50'ies.
Thorazine and mkultra> http://www.whale.to/a/thorazine_h.html (http://www.whale.to/a/thorazine_h.html) :shock:
:shock: :shock: :shock: "Various forms of punishment were used against members considered to be serious disciplinary problems. Methods included imprisonment in a 6 x 4 x 3-foot (1.8 x 1.2 x 0.9m) plywood box and forcing children to spend a night at the bottom of a well, sometimes upside-down. For some members who attempted to escape, drugs such as Thorazine, sodium pentathol, chloral hydrate, Demerol and Valium were administered in an 'extended care unit'."
source: http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/socio ... LTRA04.htm (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/sociopol_mindconMKULTRA04.htm)
This is so sick!
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorpromazine ( whole story)
Adverse effects
The main side effects of chlorpromazine are due to its anticholinergic properties; these effects overshadow and counteract, to some extent, the extrapyramidal side effects typical of many early generation antipsychotics. These include sedation, slurred speech, dry mouth, constipation, urinary retention and possible lowering of seizure threshold. Appetite may be increased with resultant weight gain, Glucose tolerance may be impaired.[21] It lowers blood pressure with accompanying dizziness.[14] Chlorpromazine, which has sedating effects, will increase sleep time when given at high doses or when first administered, although tolerance usually develops.[22] Sleep cycles or REM sleep is not altered by antipsychotics.[23]
Dermatological reactions are frequently observed. In fact three types of skin disorders are observed: hypersensitivity reaction, contact dermatitis, and photosensitivity. During long-term therapy in schizophrenic patients chlorpromazine can induce abnormal pigmentation of the skin. This can be manifested as gray-blue pigmentation in regions exposed to sunlight.[22]
Scary stuff. This stuff is developed and used since the 50'ies. Makes me think about mk-ultra as well. That was also in the 50'ies.
Thorazine and mkultra> http://www.whale.to/a/thorazine_h.html.... (http://www.whale.to/a/thorazine_h.html....). :shock:
:shock: :shock: :shock: "Various forms of punishment were used against members considered to be serious disciplinary problems. Methods included imprisonment in a 6 x 4 x 3-foot (1.8 x 1.2 x 0.9m) plywood box and forcing children to spend a night at the bottom of a well, sometimes upside-down. For some members who attempted to escape, drugs such as Thorazine, sodium pentathol, chloral hydrate, Demerol and Valium were administered in an 'extended care unit'."
source: http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/socio ... LTRA04.htm (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/sociopol_mindconMKULTRA04.htm)
This is so sick!
Could explain the allergy to the sun. Gonna read some more about this. Gonna click that link as well, not sure if I want to read it though...
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allergic to thorazine? wow. how would they know that, i wonder? why would michael have ever taken that? i ask because thorazine is primarily used as an antipsychotic for people with extremely severe mental disorders (e.g. schizophrenia)
i suppose it could be used for other things like anxiety but it's such a heavy duty drug.
and not often used for other things.
anyone taking it feels like a zombie. i know this because i used to manage an outpatient clinic for the severly mentally ill.
but, to answer your question, i don't know about recent pics with the medical bracelet.
good question.
Could it have been prescribed for Dissociative Identity Disorder?
I would not say that. May be a Medical doctor can confirm if that drug would help just for that porpouse.
The DID is usually trated by psychotherapy during a long period. If the client shows other symtoms associated to other causes, the doctor would prescribe the right drug to start with the approach.
That drug anyway, it´s pretty old.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorpromazine ( whole story)
Adverse effects
The main side effects of chlorpromazine are due to its anticholinergic properties; these effects overshadow and counteract, to some extent, the extrapyramidal side effects typical of many early generation antipsychotics. These include sedation, slurred speech, dry mouth, constipation, urinary retention and possible lowering of seizure threshold. Appetite may be increased with resultant weight gain, Glucose tolerance may be impaired.[21] It lowers blood pressure with accompanying dizziness.[14] Chlorpromazine, which has sedating effects, will increase sleep time when given at high doses or when first administered, although tolerance usually develops.[22] Sleep cycles or REM sleep is not altered by antipsychotics.[23]
Dermatological reactions are frequently observed. In fact three types of skin disorders are observed: hypersensitivity reaction, contact dermatitis, and photosensitivity. During long-term therapy in schizophrenic patients chlorpromazine can induce abnormal pigmentation of the skin. This can be manifested as gray-blue pigmentation in regions exposed to sunlight.[22]
Scary stuff. This stuff is developed and used since the 50'ies. Makes me think about mk-ultra as well. That was also in the 50'ies.
Thorazine and mkultra> http://www.whale.to/a/thorazine_h.html.... (http://www.whale.to/a/thorazine_h.html....). :shock:
:shock: :shock: :shock: "Various forms of punishment were used against members considered to be serious disciplinary problems. Methods included imprisonment in a 6 x 4 x 3-foot (1.8 x 1.2 x 0.9m) plywood box and forcing children to spend a night at the bottom of a well, sometimes upside-down. For some members who attempted to escape, drugs such as Thorazine, sodium pentathol, chloral hydrate, Demerol and Valium were administered in an 'extended care unit'."
source: http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/socio ... LTRA04.htm (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/sociopol_mindconMKULTRA04.htm)
This is so sick!
Could explain the allergy to the sun. Gonna read some more about this. Gonna click that link as well, not sure if I want to read it though...[/quote
Wow.. I always assumed that vitiligo caused sensitivity to the sun ut haven't actually researched it. Either way it could al be related somehow. The throazine link isn't working for me...
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I do think it's because of the thorazine and I do think Mike has DID. It's the base of every mind control program. Split the brain in pieces so you can program the bits and trigger every personality you want]
It could be possible that MJ suffered from DID, but on other terms than the ones you point, and I explain why.
MJ did not have a common childhood. After reading some of his inner thoughts as how he perceived his childhood and observing and analyzing some of the interviews, I can say that MJ neededto create an alter ego in order to live his life. It´s human nature ;)
Not really DID, as becoming someone else, but DID within the proyection of the "normal, day by day" person that he wasn´t.
That scenario could have been increasing due to all the critics that he needed to face up when "acting normal", like could be playing with kids.
Let´s look at MJ as 2 individuals who need to become 1 whole. The child and the mature star.
One can see many times that MJ´s behaviour does not match with "what is expected" from a "normal" dude.
When stress became too much for MJ1, MJ1 switched to MJ2 to protect himself from the enviroment, but not neccesarely having the profile of DID.
To me, looks like 2 individuals who know each other, the inner "this is the man I am" and the outer "This is the man I became for others".
When a person with DID gets therapy, it gets way worse before it gets better.
That is not correct.
I think the real Mike is the person all the fans love so much, although I do think he might be more 'normal' than many think.
He is just, Human, but a very special one ;)
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Why is it not correct that a person with DID getting treatment gets worse before getting better? I do not know either way I am just asking what evidence or research you have done to come to your conclusion. Thanks!
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Why is it not correct that a person with DID getting treatment gets worse before getting better? I do not know either way I am just asking what evidence or research you have done to come to your conclusion. Thanks!
Me? Oh, I just went to wikipedia to speculate about that subject because someone told me and I heard that another person said that it could be... :lol:
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Dissociative Identity Disorder
Alejandra Swartz
December 10, 2001
Dissociation is the state in which a person becomes separated from reality. Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID), sometimes referred to as Multiple Personality Disorder (MPD), is a disorder involving a disturbance of identity in which two or more separate and distinct personality states (or identities) control the individual’s behavior at different times. When under the control of one identity, the person is usually unable to remember some of the events that occurred while other personality was in control. The different identities are referred to as “alters”.
Alters may have experienced a distinct personal history, self image and identity, including a separate name, as well as age. At least two of these personalities recurrently take control of the person’s behavior.
Multiplicity simply put by the majority of multiples is about hiding, pain and survival no more no less. It is a desperate completely creative and wonderful survival mechanism for the child who endures repeated abuse mentally, emotionally and physically it may be their only escape. Dissociation is a common defense mechanism against childhood abuse, there is no adult onset of multiple personality. Only children have the flexibility to fracture off from the “core” personality and escape the traumatic and painful memory. The common belief among most professionals is the personality splintered or fractured before the age of five.
Those with MPD have a dominant personality that determines the individual’s behavior. Each personality has a separate and consistent pattern of perceiving their environment, themselves and others. Each multiple has a specific way they see the inside of their mind, where the alters live when they are not in control of the body. Examples include stages, tunnels, houses and levels. These are their internal houses where they go when they are not out or when they are hiding. The mind of a multiple personality is like a roaming house in which two or more individuals co-exist. When one personality is in charge, the others remain hidden in the inner recesses of the brain. Each acts independently of the others and is totally different from them.
Virtually, every victim of multiple personality in time develops an ISH- an Inner Self Helper- described by Dr. Ralph Allison, a separate personality whose sole function seems to be to prevent the other personalities from tearing the physical body apart and therefore ending their own existences. (Hawksworth & Schwarz, The Five of Me. Page 14)
The person with DID may have as few as two alters, or as many as 100. The average number is about 10. Often alters are stable over time, continuing to play specific roles in the person’s life for years. Some alters may harbor aggressive tendencies, directed toward individuals in the person’s environment or towards other alters within the person.
The alter’s job is to protect the host personality from the memory of the trauma therefore, it is not necessary for all alters to look and act differently than the host.
Typical types of alters:
A depressed, exhausted host.
A strong, angry protector.
A scared, hurt child.
A helper.
An internal persecutor who blames one or more of the alters for the abuse they have endured. (Sometimes named after the actual abuser)
Common Terminology of MPD
Personality An entity with a firm, persistent, and well-founded sense of self and of a characteristic and consistent pattern of behavior and feelings in response to stimuli.
Birth Person also known as the Original Personality This is the person that was present from birth, the one born into the body. For the majority of people, this is the person that began life before the multiplicity was created, though not for all.
Core Personality_ The general belief is that this is the birth personality. The thought held by some in the psychological community is this person is often asleep or at least very distant from the system. Believed to be fragile, and one of the last personalities to be found. Although, this is not always the case.
Host_ For most multiples, this is the personality which most often is present and is in control of the body. This is the person who deals with daily functioning, and the system within, as a whole. Some multiples may have more several personalities that serve as their hosts.
Alter_ A generic term for any personality useful because, in clinical situations, it often us unclear which personalities are original, host, and so forth, or whether an entity is sufficiently distinct and elaborate for a more precise label.
Inner Self Helper (ISH) _ Described first by Allison (1974), ISH’s are serene, rational and objective commentators and advisors.
Co-Consciousness_ The degree of knowledge and awareness that alters have with one another. They can communicate and work together as a group and have very little if any time loss.
Integration_ This is the process of merging or joining alters so that the multiple becomes one person.
Statistics
Dissociative disorders are not common psychiatric illnesses but are not rare. Few good epidemiological studies have been performed some estimate 1 per 10,000 in the population but higher proportions are reported among psychiatric populations between 0.5% and 2%. A sharp rise in reported cases may be attributed to greater awareness of the diagnosis and misdiagnosis of DID as schizophrenia or borderline personality disorder. Some experts attribute possible under diagnosis to family disavowal of sexual and physical abuse. However, there has been controversy about possible over diagnosis of the syndrome as well. Individuals who most commonly have the disorder are highly hypnotizable and therefore especially sensitive to suggestion or cultural influences.
Some studies show that women make up the majority of these cases 90% or more. Both in the United States and in non Western Countries the most common dissociative disorder diagnosis falls into the “not otherwise specified” category. Dissociative disorders are the world, although the structure of the symptoms varies across cultures.
Even after extensive studies were begun on the phenomenon of the multiple personality in about the year 1919, most psychiatrists insisted that men did not suffer from it, only women. Today we know that approximately 20% of the recorded cases are male. But the disorder itself is still shrouded in mystery the subject of a good deal of controversy. Perhaps 50% of all psychiatrists deny that it even exists. Research has shown that the average age for the initial development of alters is 5.9 years. (Hawskworth & Schwarz. The Five of Me. Page 11)
Symptoms
Voices_ Approximately one third of patients complain of auditory or visual hallucinations, it is common for these patients to complain that they hear voices in their heads but are merely the personalities within, communicating with one another. Often times, the MOD is misdiagnosed as a schizophrenic due to “hearing voices”, but the multiple personality hears the voices inside their head in contrast to the schizophrenic which hears from the outside of themselves. Often a multiple before diagnosis will speak of noise or clatter inside making it difficult for them to concentrate. It is possible for the multiple to hear many distinct and separate voices, of all ages talking at the same time.
Physical Differences_ Each alter within a multiple has their own history, personalities that are unique to them, body movements, facial expressions, the way they express verbal communication, voice tone and pitch. You might encounter a small child who hides her face and speaks in a childlike voice. Another child within the same system of personalities might be gregarious and charming. The description above would hold true for any age alter and are just tow examples of the variance your might find within the same age group of any of the alters.
Handwriting Differences_ In diagnosing MPD another indicator is the difference in handwriting styles.
Time Loss_ Time loss is quite common in the non-conscious multiple. For the non-conscious multiple the time losses can be devastating. Time loss can occur when something triggers an alter that the host is unaware of. These individuals might find themselves in a place or talking to someone they don’t even know. The length and duration of the time loss depends on how the multiple’s system works and if a more dominant personality can remain in control.
Depression_ Suicidal and self-mutilation is a common in this group, body memories and nightmares.
Children with DID have a great variety of symptoms including some of the ones mentioned above, depressive tendencies, anxiety, conduct problems, episodes of amnesia, difficulty paying attention in school and hallucinations. Often these children are misdiagnosed as having schizophrenia. By the time the child reaches adolescence, it is less difficult for a mental health professional to recognize the symptoms and make a diagnosis of DID.
Some two hundred cases have been reliably recorded in medical literature and several recent ones have proved similar in a variety of respects. For example: Chris Sizemore (10), Sybil Dorsett (16), Billy Milligan (10). (Ian Wilson. All in the Mind. Pages 128-135)
Treatment
Treatment for DID consists primarily of psychotherapy with hypnosis. The therapist seeks to make contact with as many alters as possible and to understand their roles and functions in the patient’s life. In particular, the therapist seeks to form an effective relationship with any personalities that are responsible for violent or self-destructive behavior, and to curb this behavior. The therapist seeks to establish communication among the personality states and to find ones that have memories of traumatic events in the patients past. The gold of the therapist is to enable the patient to achieve breakdown of the patients separate identities and their unification into a single identity.
Pharmacological approaches involve balancing therapeutic benefit and risk. Antianxiety medications are most commonly used and may be helpful in reducing the amplification of depersonalization and derealization are also side effects of antianxiety drugs, so their therapeutic response, may also increase symptoms, leading to a spiral of increasing symptoms and drug dosage but without therapeutic benefit.
Conclusion
We have seen, then, that multiple personality is a psychiatric condition under diagnosed. The personalities do not have an extraterrestrial origin, but can be traced back to the characteristics of real-life persons who have formed a strong impression upon the sufferer, who has then personalized them and unconsciously developed them into a character of his own. In short, each personality is nothing more than a satellite, a superficial fragment split off from the parent individual as a result of extreme stress-yet from our point of view the equally important aspect is that each is extraordinary convincing. (Wilson, Ian. All in the Mind. P.136)
MPD has always fascinated me, from the phenomenon of being different personalities to the amazing survival that these people have, because that’s how they learn how to survive by slipping into a state of mind to the point that they think that all this abuse is not happening to them but to someone else. But it is sad though that many doctors do not detect the problem until after is too late in some cases and misdiagnose to be something else. I did notice that as it was said by Ian Wilson in his book, every personality has his own job as we can say the reason why they are there. The child who was innocent when all this abuse started happening for example, we have the aggressive protector, we have the helper, etc.
I have always admired these people their defense mechanism against all this abuse is extraordinary and for those of us who do not understand about this illness it would be great to read about it and even watch videos about it. For me it has made me understand more about it and comprehend the pain they go thru especially since children are the ones who are able to split into these states.
http://allpsych.com/journal/did.html (http://allpsych.com/journal/did.html)
Dissociative identity disorder
Previously known as multiple personality disorder, dissociative identity disorder (DID) is a condition in which a person has more than one distinct identity or personality state. At least two of these personalities repeatedly assert themselves to control the affected person's behavior. Each personality state has a distinct name, past, identity, and self-image.
Psychiatrists and psychologists use a handbook called the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders , fourth edition text revision or DSM-IV-TR , to diagnose mental disorders. In this handbook, DID is classified as a dissociative disorder. Other mental disorders in this category include depersonalization disorder , dissociative fugue , and dissociative amnesia . It should be noted, however, that the nature of DID and even its existence is debated by psychiatrists and psychologists.
Description
"Dissociation" describes a state in which the integrated functioning of a person's identity, including consciousness, memory and awareness of surroundings, is disrupted or eliminated. Dissociation is a mechanism that allows the mind to separate or compartmentalize certain memories or thoughts from normal consciousness. These memories are not erased, but are buried and may resurface at a later time. Dissociation is related to hypnosis in that hypnotic trance also involves a temporarily altered state of consciousness. Dissociation occurs along a continuum or spectrum, and may be mild and part of the range of normal experience, or may be severe and pose a problem for the individual experiencing the dissociation. An example of everyday, mild dissociation is when a person is driving for a long period on the highway and takes several exits without remembering them. In severe, impairing dissociation, an individual experiences a lack of awareness of important aspects of his or her identity.
The phrase "dissociative identity disorder" replaced "multiple personality disorder" because the new name emphasizes the disruption of a person's identity that characterizes the disorder. A person with the illness is consciously aware of one aspect of his or her personality or self while being totally unaware of, or dissociated from, other aspects of it. This is a key feature of the disorder. It only takes two distinct identities or personality states to qualify as DID but there have been cases in which 100 distinct alternate personalities, or alters, were reported. Fifty percent of DID patients harbor fewer than 11 identities.
Because the alters alternate in controlling the patient's consciousness and behavior, the affected patient experiences long gaps in memory— gaps that far exceed typical episodes of forgetting that occur in those unaffected by DID.
Despite the presence of distinct personalities, in many cases one primary identity exists. It uses the name the patient was born with and tends to be quiet, dependent, depressed and guilt-ridden. The alters have their own names and unique traits. They are distinguished by different temperaments, likes, dislikes, manners of expression and even physical characteristics such as posture and body language. It is not unusual for patients with DID to have alters of different genders, sexual orientations, ages, or nationalities. Typically, it takes just seconds for one personality to replace another but, in rarer instances, the shift can be gradual. In either case, the emergence of one personality, and the retreat of another, is often triggered by a stressful event.
People with DID tend to have other severe disorders as well, such as depression, substance abuse, borderline personality disorder and eating disorders, among others. The degree of impairment ranges from mild to severe, and complications may include suicide attempts, self-mutilation, violence, or drug abuse.
Left untreated, DID can last a lifetime. Treatment for the disorder consists primarily of individual psychotherapy .
Causes and symptoms
Causes
The severe dissociation that characterizes patients with DID is currently understood to result from a set of causes:
an innate ability to dissociate easily
repeated episodes of severe physical or sexual abuse in childhood
lack of a supportive or comforting person to counteract abusive relative(s)
influence of other relatives with dissociative symptoms or disorders
The primary cause of DID appears to be severe and prolonged trauma experienced during childhood. This trauma can be associated with emotional, physical or sexual abuse, or some combination. One theory is that young children, faced with a routine of torture, sexual abuse or neglect , dissociate themselves from their trauma by creating separate identities or personality states. A manufactured alter may suffer while the primary identity "escapes" the unbearable experience. Dissociation, which is easy for a young child to achieve, thus becomes a useful defense. This strategy displaces the suffering onto another identity. Over time, the child, who on average is around six years old at the time of the appearance of the first alter, may create many more.
As stated, there is considerable controversy about the nature, and even the existence, of dissociative identity disorder. One cause for the skepticism is the alarming increase in reports of the disorder since the 1980s. An area of contention is the notion of suppressed memories, a crucial component in DID. Many experts in memory research say that it is nearly impossible for anyone to remember things that happened before the age three, the age when some DID patients supposedly experience abuse, but the brain's storage, retrieval, and interpretation of childhood memories are still not fully understood. The relationship of dissociative disorders to childhood abuse has led to intense controversy and lawsuits concerning the accuracy of childhood memories. Because childhood trauma is a factor in the development of DID, some doctors think it may be a variation of post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). In both DID and PTSD, dissociation is a prominent mechanism.
Symptoms
The major dissociative symptoms experienced by DID patients are amnesia , depersonalization , derealization, and identity disturbances.
AMNESIA. Amnesia in DID is marked by gaps in the patient's memory for long periods of their past, and, in some cases, their entire childhood. Most DID patients have amnesia, or "lose time," for periods when another personality is "out." They may report finding items in their house that they can't remember having purchased, finding notes written in different handwriting, or other evidence of unexplained activity.
DEPERSONALIZATION. Depersonalization is a dissociative symptom in which the patient feels that his or her body is unreal, is changing, or is dissolving. Some DID patients experience depersonalization as feeling to be outside of their body, or as watching a movie of themselves.
DEREALIZATION. Derealization is a dissociative symptom in which the patient perceives the external environment as unreal. Patients may see walls, buildings, or other objects as changing in shape, size, or color. DID patients may fail to recognize relatives or close friends.
IDENTITY DISTURBANCES. Persons suffering from DID usually have a main personality that psychiatrists refer to as the "host." This is generally not the person's original personality, but is rather one developed in response to childhood trauma. It is usually this personality that seeks psychiatric help. DID patients are often frightened by their dissociative experiences, which can include losing awareness of hours or even days, meeting people who claim to know them by another name, or feeling "out of body."
Psychiatrists refer to the phase of transition between alters as the "switch." After a switch, people assume whole new physical postures, voices, and vocabularies. Specific circumstances or stressful situations may bring out particular identities. Some patients have histories of erratic performance in school or in their jobs caused by the emergence of alternate personalities during examinations or other stressful situations. Each alternate identity takes control one at a time, denying control to the others. Patients vary with regard to their alters' awareness of one another. One alter may not acknowledge the existence of others or it may criticize other alters. At times during therapy, one alter may allow another to take control.
Demographics
Studies in North America and Europe indicate that as many as 5% of patients in psychiatric wards have undiagnosed DID. Partially hospitalized and out-patients may have an even higher incidence. For every one man diagnosed with DID, there are eight or nine women. Among children, boys and girls diagnosed with DID are pretty closely matched 1:1. No one is sure why this discrepancy between diagnosed adults and children exists.
Diagnosis
The DSM-IV-TR lists four diagnostic criteria for identifying DID and differentiating it from similar disorders:
Traumatic stressor: The patient has been exposed to a catastrophic event involving actual or threatened death or injury, or a serious physical threat to him- or herself or others. During exposure to the trauma, the person's emotional response was marked by intense fear, feelings of helplessness, or horror. In general, stressors caused intentionally by human beings (genocide, rape, torture, abuse, etc.) are experienced as more traumatic than accidents, natural disasters, or "acts of God."
The demonstration of two or more distinct identities or personality states in an individual. Each separate identity must have its own way of thinking about, perceiving, relating to and interacting with the environment and self.
Two of the identities assume control of the patient's behavior, one at a time and repeatedly.
Extended periods of forgetfulness lasting too long to be considered ordinary forgetfulness.
Determination that the above symptoms are not due to drugs, alcohol or other substances and that they can't be attributed to any other general medical condition. It is also necessary to rule out fantasy play or imaginary friends when considering a diagnosis of DID in a child.
Proper diagnosis of DID is complicated because some of the symptoms of DID overlap with symptoms of other mental disorders. Misdiagnoses are common and include depression, schizophrenia , borderline personality disorder, somatization disorder , and panic disorder .
Because the extreme dissociative experiences related to this disorder can be frightening, people with the disorder may go to emergency rooms or clinics because they fear they are going insane.
When a doctor is evaluating a patient for DID, he or she will first rule out physical conditions that sometimes produce amnesia, depersonalization, or derealization. These conditions include head injuries, brain disease (especially seizure disorders), side effects from medications, substance abuse or intoxication, AIDS dementia complex, or recent periods of extreme physical stress and sleeplessness. In some cases, the doctor may give the patient an electroencephalograph (EEG) to exclude epilepsy or other seizure disorders. The physician also must consider whether the patient is malingering and/or offering fictitious complaints.
If the patient appears to be physically healthy, the doctor will next rule out psychotic disturbances, including schizophrenia. Many patients with DID are misdiagnosed as schizophrenic because they may "hear" their alters "talking" inside their heads. If the doctor suspects DID, he or she can use a screening test called the Dissociative Experiences Scale (DES). If the patient has a high score on this test, he or she can be evaluated further with the Dissociative Disorders Interview Schedule (DDIS) or the Structured Clinical Interview for Dissociative Disorders (SCID-D).
Treatments
Treatment of DID may last for five to seven years in adults and usually requires several different treatment methods.
Psychotherapy
Ideally, patients with DID should be treated by a therapist with specialized training in dissociation. This specialized training is important because the patient's personality switches can be confusing or startling. In addition, many patients with DID have hostile or suicidal alter personalities. Most therapists who treat DID patients have rules or contracts for treatment that include such issues as the patient's responsibility for his or her safety. Psychotherapy for DID patients typically has several stages: an initial phase for uncovering and "mapping" the patient's alters; a phase of treating the traumatic memories and "fusing" the alters; and a phase of consolidating the patient's newly integrated personality.
Most therapists who treat multiples, or DID patients, recommend further treatment after personality integration, on the grounds that the patient has not learned the social skills that most people acquire in adolescence and early adult life. In addition, family therapy is often recommended to help the patient's family understand DID and the changes that occur during personality reintegration.
Many DID patients are helped by group therapy as well as individual treatment, provided that the group is limited to people with dissociative disorders. DID patients sometimes have setbacks in mixed therapy groups because other patients are bothered or frightened by their personality switches.
Medications
Some doctors will prescribe tranquilizers or antidepressants for DID patients because their alter personalities may have anxiety or mood disorders. However, other therapists who treat DID patients prefer to keep medications to a minimum because these patients can easily become psychologically dependent on drugs. In addition, many DID patients have at least one alter who abuses drugs or alcohol, substances which are dangerous in combination with most tranquilizers.
Hypnosis
While not always necessary, hypnosis (or hypnotherapy ) is a standard method of treatment for DID patients. Hypnosis may help patients recover repressed ideas and memories. Further, hypnosis can also be used to control problematic behaviors that many DID patients exhibit, such as self-mutilation, or eating disorders like bulimia nervosa . In the later stages of treatment, the therapist may use hypnosis to "fuse" the alters as part of the patient's personality integration process.
Prognosis
Unfortunately, no systematic studies of the long-term outcome of DID currently exist. Some therapists believe that the prognosis for recovery is excellent for children and good for most adults. Although treatment takes several years, it is often ultimately effective. As a general rule, the earlier the patient is diagnosed and properly treated, the better the prognosis. Patients may find they are bothered less by symptoms as they advance into middle age, with some relief beginning to appear in the late 40s. Stress or substance abuse, however, can cause a relapse of symptoms at any time.
Prevention
Prevention of DID requires intervention in abusive families and treating children with dissociative symptoms as early as possible.
http://www.minddisorders.com/Del-Fi/Dis ... order.html (http://www.minddisorders.com/Del-Fi/Dissociative-identity-disorder.html)
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Why is it not correct that a person with DID getting treatment gets worse before getting better? I do not know either way I am just asking what evidence or research you have done to come to your conclusion. Thanks!
Me? Oh, I just went to wikipedia to speculate about that subject because someone told me and I heard that another person said that it could be... :lol:
She asked a genuine question, I would like to know where you base that on as well.
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I think that those questions are out of the point and very unrespectful.
I gave my answers already quoting your previous post.
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I think that those questions are out of the point and very unrespectful.
I gave my answers already quoting your previous post.
I'm sorry, but we both mean no disrespect, but you only said "That is not correct."
Because I am interested in DID and its treatment, I would like to know where you get that info from. As far as I know, and i have read quite a bit about it, in most therapies it gets worse before the alters merge. So I do hope you can enlighten us.
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I think that those questions are out of the point and very unrespectful.
I gave my answers already quoting your previous post.
I'm sorry, but we both mean no disrespect, but you only said "That is not correct."
Because I am interested in DID and its treatment, I would like to know where you get that info from. As far as I know, and i have read quite a bit about it, in most therapies it gets worse before the alters merge. So I do hope you can enlighten us.
You wrote:
When a person with DID gets therapy, it gets way worse before it gets better.
I answered that is not correct.
Now you wrote:
in most therapies it gets worse before the alters merge.
This statement would be more accurate.
Lost in the translation ;)
I am far from enlighten anybody.
Every therapy is different for each individual and each individual will evolve differently as well.
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I think that those questions are out of the point and very unrespectful.
I gave my answers already quoting your previous post.
I'm sorry, but we both mean no disrespect, but you only said "That is not correct."
Because I am interested in DID and its treatment, I would like to know where you get that info from. As far as I know, and i have read quite a bit about it, in most therapies it gets worse before the alters merge. So I do hope you can enlighten us.
You wrote:
When a person with DID gets therapy, it gets way worse before it gets better.
I answered that is not correct.
Now you wrote:
in most therapies it gets worse before the alters merge.
This statement would be more accurate.
Lost in the translation ;)
I am far from enlighten anybody.
Every therapy is different for each individual and each individual will evolve differently as well.
Means your statement "That is not correct" was also far from accurate, because it is true, yet not always in therapies where no pharmaceuticals are being used. In most therapies though they are used.
Means the change in behavior and appearance between 2000 and 2004 is not that strange.
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But you are assuming that MJ had DID, and that patients with DID gets worst with therapy before the alters emerged.
The change in behavior and appearance between 2000 and 2004 is not that strange
Meaning? strange from which perspective? the psychological one points more towards dismorphia, not DID.
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But you are assuming that MJ had DID, and that patients with DID gets worst with therapy before the alters emerged.
The change in behavior and appearance between 2000 and 2004 is not that strange
Meaning? strange from which perspective? the psychological one points more towards dismorphia, not DID.
I'm sorry, but dysmorphia does not have different personalities or time loss as a result. It's like anorexia or boulimia, where the patient is never pleased with the way he looks. These patients will change in mood and in appearance, but will not show multiple personalities.
I am assuming that MJ has DID, because it makes the most sense looking at his past, medical issuess, behavior etc. He might have had a form of dysmorphia as well, I don't know, but that doesn't explain the different personalities.
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I want to know where and when the brothers made the statement that Mike was schizophrnic, it's obvious that something was off, and souza some of that research was earily true, like the change in signatures, the change in voice pitch, etc. it's all there.
I think we've hit the nail on the head, and that there is way more to it to be learnt.
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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... 0-0079.pdf (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1823302/pdf/canmedaj00740-0079.pdf)
This stuff thorazine is more like poison :shock:
Please search google images with the following keywords: thorazine advertisments
Holy F-word :?
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But you are assuming that MJ had DID, and that patients with DID gets worst with therapy before the alters emerged.
The change in behavior and appearance between 2000 and 2004 is not that strange
Meaning? strange from which perspective? the psychological one points more towards dismorphia, not DID.
I'm sorry, but dysmorphia does not have different personalities or time loss as a result. It's like anorexia or boulimia, where the patient is never pleased with the way he looks. These patients will change in mood and in appearance, but will not show multiple personalities.
I am assuming that MJ has DID, because it makes the most sense looking at his past, medical issuess, behavior etc. He might have had a form of dysmorphia as well, I don't know, but that doesn't explain the different personalities.
The only time i saw a hint of "different personality" and also looks, was in the Bashir documentary and i emailed Mo or you (don´t remember) about that, but after watching a second time those footages, i can see that MJ was with his guard up the second time.
Another behaviour but not another personality clinically diagnosed as DID.
On the other hand, I understand the why of your point of view.
To be certain about labeling someone with a diagnose, one must be face to face with the person subject of the discussion, interact for a while and determinate the man as the whole in order to approach a future diagnosis, if any. And have the proper studies, tools, experience and, of course, competence to do it.
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Okay, since we already went this far discussing MJ`s psychological / mental state I`d like to recommend to read the following books as well:
1. "The Secret - The Story of brilliant, beautiful, handicapped Michael Jackson" (Patricia Eddington, 2009) - a profound, insightful and - IMO - convincing analysis from a loving point of view; here is a website with comments http://www.michaeljacksonthesecret.com (http://www.michaeljacksonthesecret.com)
2. "Backdoor to Neverland - Exposing the King of Pop`s secret mindsets" (Yves Gautier, 2010) - another profound analysis and a website http://www.backdoortoneverland.com (http://www.backdoortoneverland.com)
Both books are dealing with lots of facts and an overall respectful approach to his person / personaliy. Definitely worth reading (available on Amazon, with more comments on there).
What we should keep in mind is that there is absolutely NO person on this planet that ever experienced anything similar to such an extraordinary upbringing and life like MJ, so much a "public persona" and at the same time so extremely sheltered from the real world and so reclusive from early childhood on, i. e. never ever any "regular" socialisation (like interaction with friends, at school, among peer groups) but every step, every move, every appearance so well documented over four decades - almost like public property.
MJ himself explaines it right to the point in his speech accepting the Grammy living legend award in 1993: "When you grow up in the eyes of the public you are automatically different." Worth to watch again ...
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I will start reading the 1st one. Thanks for the tip!
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I am assuming that MJ has DID, because it makes the most sense looking at his past, medical issuess, behavior etc. He might have had a form of dysmorphia as well, I don't know, but that doesn't explain the different personalities.
My uncle is PSYCHOLOGIST, I will ask him about DID. And I work with a girl, she and her family are evangelical Christians, his brother was diagnosed psychotic. They have great faith in God, pray constantly, the brother is improving, he is leaving the medication and reinserting socially and occupationally. we know that MJ has a lot of faith in God and we know he reads the Bible daily, could this be his searching in God support for his DID?
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But you are assuming that MJ had DID, and that patients with DID gets worst with therapy before the alters emerged.
The change in behavior and appearance between 2000 and 2004 is not that strange
Meaning? strange from which perspective? the psychological one points more towards dismorphia, not DID.
I'm sorry, but dysmorphia does not have different personalities or time loss as a result. It's like anorexia or boulimia, where the patient is never pleased with the way he looks. These patients will change in mood and in appearance, but will not show multiple personalities.
I am assuming that MJ has DID, because it makes the most sense looking at his past, medical issuess, behavior etc. He might have had a form of dysmorphia as well, I don't know, but that doesn't explain the different personalities.
The only time i saw a hint of "different personality" and also looks, was in the Bashir documentary and i emailed Mo or you (don´t remember) about that, but after watching a second time those footages, i can see that MJ was with his guard up the second time.
Another behaviour but not another personality clinically diagnosed as DID.
On the other hand, I understand the why of your point of view.
To be certain about labeling someone with a diagnose, one must be face to face with the person subject of the discussion, interact for a while and determinate the man as the whole in order to approach a future diagnosis, if any. And have the proper studies, tools, experience and, of course, competence to do it.
I'm sorry Gema, but ALL the signs for DID are right in front of your eyes. Same goes for the signs of MK Ultra, which goes hand in hand with DID.
Here's a video for you. Start at 1:10. Listen to what happens when Mike says the word "slave". Look at what happens to him when the alarm goes off. Look at his face... He's triggered into another alter ego.
[youtube:1cl7nhvz]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGigBvtr5IE[/youtube:1cl7nhvz]
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I'm sorry Gema, but ALL the signs for DID are right in front of your eyes. Same goes for the signs of MK Ultra, which goes hand in hand with DID.
Here's a video for you. Start at 1:10. Listen to what happens when Mike says the word "slave". Look at what happens to him when the alarm goes off. Look at his face... He's triggered into another alter ego.
I don´t see signs of DID in that video at all. MJ does not lose contact with him. He is MJ all the time, talks about the same subjects and reminds being MJ answering the questions.
If the alarm would be the trigger, another personality would surface. That did not happen.
I see the same face and the same Michael.
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I'm sorry Gema, but ALL the signs for DID are right in front of your eyes. Same goes for the signs of MK Ultra, which goes hand in hand with DID.
Here's a video for you. Start at 1:10. Listen to what happens when Mike says the word "slave". Look at what happens to him when the alarm goes off. Look at his face... He's triggered into another alter ego.
I don´t see signs of DID in that video at all. MJ does not lose contact with him. He is MJ all the time, talks about the same subjects and reminds being MJ answering the questions.
If the alarm would be the trigger, another personality would surface. That did not happen.
I see the same face and the same Michael.
Then again we agree to disagree, because I CLEARLY see what's happening right there.
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could this be his searching in God support for his DID?
Do you mean that MJ search for god made him "lose it" or?
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Mo, did you read the books I mentioned above?
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I'm sorry Gema, but ALL the signs for DID are right in front of your eyes. Same goes for the signs of MK Ultra, which goes hand in hand with DID.
Here's a video for you. Start at 1:10. Listen to what happens when Mike says the word "slave". Look at what happens to him when the alarm goes off. Look at his face... He's triggered into another alter ego.
I don´t see signs of DID in that video at all. MJ does not lose contact with him. He is MJ all the time, talks about the same subjects and reminds being MJ answering the questions.
If the alarm would be the trigger, another personality would surface. That did not happen.
I see the same face and the same Michael.
I advise you to WATCH it again... carefully.... you didn't see anything or you just refused to see....?
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I did not see DID, that´s for sure.
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I don`t see anything here either.
I think it´s not that simple.
IMO the alarm was planned and went on on purpose (commercial break), that`s the way it`s been done on live acts.
Again, did you read the books, Mo?
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I watched the video and i did not see any change in him he just looked a little concerned about the alarm but only a little
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I agree with Gema
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I don`t see anything here either.
I think it´s not that simple.
IMO the alarm was planned and went on on purpose (commercial break), that`s the way it`s been done on live acts.
Again, did you read the books, Mo?
the second book might be interesting, and I too agree he may have looked startled by the alarm but thats all I see.
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I read both resumes of the books posted by @Aintnosunshine.
I think we are following the same thought here.Here I quote myself again to, in resume, get the picture.
I do think it's because of the thorazine and I do think Mike has DID. It's the base of every mind control program. Split the brain in pieces so you can program the bits and trigger every personality you want]
It could be possible that MJ suffered from DID, but on other terms than the ones you point, and I explain why.
MJ did not have a common childhood. After reading some of his inner thoughts as how he perceived his childhood and observing and analyzing some of the interviews, I can say that MJ neededto create an alter ego in order to live his life. It´s human nature ;)
Not really DID, as becoming someone else, but DID within the proyection of the "normal, day by day" person that he wasn´t.
That scenario could have been increasing due to all the critics that he needed to face up when "acting normal", like could be playing with kids.
Let´s look at MJ as 2 individuals who need to become 1 whole. The child and the mature star.
One can see many times that MJ´s behaviour does not match with "what is expected" from a "normal" dude.
When stress became too much for MJ1, MJ1 switched to MJ2 to protect himself from the enviroment, but not neccesarely having the profile of DID.
To me, looks like 2 individuals who know each other, the inner "this is the man I am" and the outer "This is the man I became for others".
When a person with DID gets therapy, it gets way worse before it gets better.
That is not correct.
I think the real Mike is the person all the fans love so much, although I do think he might be more 'normal' than many think.
He is just, Human, but a very special one ;)
Something I really agree with the book "Backdoor to Neverland" is the theory called
Magical Thinking
I could not agree more ;)
In my country we are not as sofisticated as the French, so we don´t call it "magical thinking" we call it "the ostrich" or "selective perception".
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I agree with Gema
Thanks.
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I agree with Gema
Thanks.
I don't think Michael suffered from it..Just my 2 cents
Peace,
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I agree with Gema
Thanks.
I don't think Michael suffered from it..Just my 2 cents
Peace,
I think he suffered, from what, is the question.
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I agree with Gema
Thanks.
I don't think Michael suffered from it..Just my 2 cents
Peace,
I think he suffered, from what, is the question.
He created his world, it´s human nature. The mind (brain) has it´s ways to create the bridge that helps up to cop with situations.
This happens in DID profiles, but also in traumatic situations, depression.....it´s a survival mode.
Think that MJ, if we try to understand where he is coming from, needed to be an iron soul to endure his life.
He was fighting for the love of his father. He said in many occasions that he wanted to be the best to be loved by his father. This could have made him unproportionally competitive, perfeccionistic and controlling.
The only think he could control somehow was his life or part of it, and for that, he created a pseudo world to live in, as a cocoon.
Too many situations to fix, too many to understand. Feeling that his life was threatened and also as a money making machine. At the end, may be was a good thing to break through, for love, for the love to himself and the people around him.
I think that he feared for his life. At the end, looks like he could not handle "being Michael Jackson"
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I agree with Gema
Thanks.
I don't think Michael suffered from it..Just my 2 cents
Peace,
I think he suffered, from what, is the question.
He created his world, it´s human nature. The mind (brain) has it´s ways to create the bridge that helps up to cop with situations.
This happens in DID profiles, but also in traumatic situations, depression.....it´s a survival mode.
Think that MJ, if we try to understand where he is coming from, needed to be an iron soul to endure his life.
He was fighting for the love of his father. He said in many occasions that he wanted to be the best to be loved by his father. This could have made him unproportionally competitive, perfeccionistic and controlling.
The only think he could control somehow was his life or part of it, and for that, he created a pseudo world to live in, as a cocoon.
Too many situations to fix, too many to understand. Feeling that his life was threatened and also as a money making machine. At the end, may be was a good thing to break through, for love, for the love to himself and the people around him.
I think that he feared for his life. At the end, looks like he could not handle "being Michael Jackson"
He was fighting for the love of his father. He said in many occasions that he wanted to be the best to be loved by his father. This could have made him unproportionally competitive, perfeccionistic and controlling.
No doubt what Joe did to him did not help, but someone has to be predispose to exhibit some of the behaviour, not everyone who has been abused become competitive, perfeccionistic, controling, whatever, its already a part of the phycie, born in them, and usually a traumatic event brings it out, like joe beating him, would have set in motion a lifetime of problems down the road, coupled with the enormas fame, the poor guy didn't have a chance.
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I agree with Gema
Thanks.
I don't think Michael suffered from it..Just my 2 cents
Peace,
I think he suffered, from what, is the question.
He created his world, it´s human nature. The mind (brain) has it´s ways to create the bridge that helps up to cop with situations.
This happens in DID profiles, but also in traumatic situations, depression.....it´s a survival mode.
Think that MJ, if we try to understand where he is coming from, needed to be an iron soul to endure his life.
He was fighting for the love of his father. He said in many occasions that he wanted to be the best to be loved by his father. This could have made him unproportionally competitive, perfeccionistic and controlling.
The only think he could control somehow was his life or part of it, and for that, he created a pseudo world to live in, as a cocoon.
Too many situations to fix, too many to understand. Feeling that his life was threatened and also as a money making machine. At the end, may be was a good thing to break through, for love, for the love to himself and the people around him.
I think that he feared for his life. At the end, looks like he could not handle "being Michael Jackson"
I think you are right
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We all behave differently with different people and situations at home hopefully we can be ourselves at work we put on our work face agree with people and smile at people we dont like that much and sometimes say what you think they want you too say you cant always speak your mind. You have to keep your self in check I just think michael is a special person that felt at a higher level than most
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@Jude
Starting from the fact that he was under the microscope, in his case, I believe that genetical predisposition is not primary to the evolution of his answers solving the conflicts of being bigger than himself.
He shows being more vulnerable than his other brothers and sisters, so, looking from that perspective, may be his nature was easier getting affected by the responsabilities he was exposed to and the enviroment.
When the family said "He was gone", at first I understood it like "he was gone in his head, he lost it"...he is, in the moon, floating (this thought came to me when i was confused and sick..but it made sense somehow).
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We all behave differently with different people and situations at home hopefully we can be ourselves at work we put on our work face agree with people and smile at people we dont like that much and sometimes say what you think they want you too say you cant always speak your mind. You have to keep your self in check I just think michael is a special person that felt at a higher level than most
Also, MJ, the King of Pop, the star, was the performer and this apply to every sense of the word.
I wish to know how he was behind the cameras and the lights. Who he was, who he is.
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@Jude
Starting from the fact that he was under the microscope, in his case, I believe that genetical predisposition is not primary to the evolution of his answers solving the conflicts of being bigger than himself.
He shows being more vulnerable than his other brothers and sisters, so, looking from that perspective, may be his nature was easier getting affected by the responsabilities he was exposed to and the enviroment.
When the family said "He was gone", at first I understood it like "he was gone in his head, he lost it"...he is, in the moon, floating (this thought came to me when i was confused and sick..but it made sense somehow).
His brothers and sisters were not under the same size of microscope, to say they were less vulnerable is not acurate
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But you are assuming that MJ had DID, and that patients with DID gets worst with therapy before the alters emerged.
The change in behavior and appearance between 2000 and 2004 is not that strange
Meaning? strange from which perspective? the psychological one points more towards dismorphia, not DID.
I'm sorry, but dysmorphia does not have different personalities or time loss as a result. It's like anorexia or boulimia, where the patient is never pleased with the way he looks. These patients will change in mood and in appearance, but will not show multiple personalities.
I am assuming that MJ has DID, because it makes the most sense looking at his past, medical issuess, behavior etc. He might have had a form of dysmorphia as well, I don't know, but that doesn't explain the different personalities.
The only time i saw a hint of "different personality" and also looks, was in the Bashir documentary and i emailed Mo or you (don´t remember) about that, but after watching a second time those footages, i can see that MJ was with his guard up the second time.
Another behaviour but not another personality clinically diagnosed as DID.
On the other hand, I understand the why of your point of view.
To be certain about labeling someone with a diagnose, one must be face to face with the person subject of the discussion, interact for a while and determinate the man as the whole in order to approach a future diagnosis, if any. And have the proper studies, tools, experience and, of course, competence to do it.
Yeah, well that is not very possible at the moment, so all I can do is speculate. But it makes a lot of sense.
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I don't see DID, but I do see an extraordinary tantalyzing brilliant man, who seems consistent in personality throughout, and who just makes me smile and thrill whenever I watch that Oprah interview.
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I know nothing of the medical bracelet and frankly have never seen MJ wearing one in pics. It is interesting to find it if so.
It is odd you should speak of mental disorders.....because like anything else it could be nothing but rumor....but I recall many years ago MJ's brothers saying something to the effect that MJ was diagnosed with schizophrenia.
This of course, is a highly serious matter and I don't say it to disrespect MJ.....I love him.....so if he had this disorder it is only fair that it is discussed compassionately.
that's interesting. i'm not a supporter of thorazine use by the way. and in most circles, thorazine is not used as much anymore but int he 70's and 80's it was highly used to treat severe and persistent disorders. i have seen people on it. do you recall where you heard this info about schizophrenia and MJ?
to have this disorder to the degree where you need thorazine, would have made it difficult for him to have ever functioned well. certainly not at the genius level we've consistently seen MJ through his work or interviews.
in any case, i find this to be an interesting thread. i think i've seen one picture where michael had medical bracelet but i'm not sure when/where. i assumed it was for lupus. let's see if we can find any pictures at all.
as for the autopsy report, it's fake right? so maybe the person who died was allergic to thorazine but that wasn't michael.
INFO: http://www.sntp.net/drugs/thorazine.htm (http://www.sntp.net/drugs/thorazine.htm)
Psychiatric Drugs: Thorazine
"People's voices came through filtered, strange. They could not penetrate my Thorazine fog; and I could not escape my drug prison." - Janet Gotkin, testimony before the Senate Subcommittee on the Abuse and Misuse of Controlled Drugs in Institutions (1977)
"It's very hard to describe the effects of this drug and others like it. That's why we use strange words like "zombie". But in my case the experience became sheer torture." - Wade Hudson, testimony before the Senate Subcommittee on the Abuse and Misuse of Controlled Drugs in Institutions (1977)
"Frequent Effects: sedation, drowsiness, lethargy, difficult thinking, poor concentration, nightmares, emotional dullness, depression, despair . . ." - Dr. Calagari's Psychiatric Drugs (1987)
In 1954 the neuroleptic drug, Thorazine, began flooding the state mental hospitals. The neuroleptics are synonymous with tranquilizers and antipsychotics. The neuroleptics are the drug most commonly given to schizophrenics. The psychiatrist would like us to believe that drugs such as Thorazine "cure" the patient by repairing or altering "bad" brain chemistry (whatever that means. . .). But the truth is the drug involves a strong dulling of the mind and emotional functions, and that this is what acts to inhibit or "push the symptoms into the back ground". According to Jerry Avon, M.D.:
"My concern is that people are having their minds blunted in a way that probably does diminish their capacity to appreciate life". (Boston Globe, 1988)
To fully understand the nature and effects of drugs such as Thorazine, it is useful to go back and see what the early research psychiatrists themselves had to say about the drug. The two pioneers of Thorazine, Delay and Deniker, said about small doses of the drug in 1952:
"Sitting or lying, the patient is motionless in his bed, often pale and with eyelids lowered. He remains silent most of the time. If he is questioned, he answers slowly and deliberately in a monotonous and indifferent voice; he expresses himself in a few words and becomes silent".
In 1954, Canada's Heinz Lehmann described the "emotional indifference" and specifically called it the "aim" of the treatment. Like Deniker and Delay, he found "the patients under treatment display a lack of spontaneous interest in the environment. . .". Contrary to today's psychiatric PR, the early pioneers plainly stated there was no positive cure or reduction of the patient's delusional symptoms or hallucinatory phenomena. With stronger dosages, there is a marked dulling and blunting of the patient's overall awareness, motor control and "thereness". A 1950 textbook candidly reported the "lobotomylike" impact of Thorazine, and in 1958, Noyes and Kolb summarized in Modern Clinical Psychiatry:
"If the patient responds well to the drug, he develops and attitude of indifference both to his surroundings and to his symptoms".
The common factor is that the drug strongly reduces awareness and interest with the result the patient doesn't lose their symptoms, they lose interest in them.
Thorazine has been called a "chemical lobotomy" because of the similar effects it creates. Briefly, a lobotomy destroys partially or completely all functioning of the frontal lobes. The frontal lobes are unique to human beings and are the seat of the higher functions such as love, concern for others, empathy, self-insight, creativity, initiative, autonomy, rationality, abstract reasoning, judgment, future planning, foresight, will-power, determination and concentration. Without the frontal lobes it is impossible to be "human" in the fullest sense of the word; they are required for a civilized, effective, mature life. Without this "human" aspect a person is incapable of living a rewarding, happy and responsible life.
While the neuroleptics are toxic to most brain functions, disrupting nearly all of them, they have an especially well-documented impact on the dopamine neurotransmitter system. As any psychiatric textbook explains, dopamine neurotransmitters provide the major nerve pathways from the deeper brain to the frontal lobes and limbic system - the very same area attacked by surgical lobotomy. The disruption in the functioning of the frontal lobes results in the same effect - a greatly reduced person with dementia and reduction of awareness of self and the environment. They become "vegetables" - a body with very little mind or personality left.
While American psychiatrists continue to deny the obvious reality of chemical lobotomy, many European psychiatrists often acknowledge it openly, even in public and to the press. They can argue and play word games all they like - Thorazine is an extremely dangerous drug which does chemically what a lobotomy does surgically.
"The blunting of conscious motivation, and the inability to solve problems under the influence of chlorpromazine (Thorazine) resembles nothing so much as the effects of frontal lobotomy. . . Research has suggested that lobotomies and chemicals like chlorpromazine may cause their effects in the same way, by disrupting the activity of the neurochemical, dopamine. At any rate, a psychiatrist would be hard put to distinguish a lobotomized patient from one treated with chlorpromazine." - Peter Sterling, neuroanatomist, article Psychiatry's Drug Addiction, New Republic magazine (March 3, 1979)
Like surgical lobotomy, chemical lobotomy has no specific beneficial effect on any human problem or human being. It puts a chemical clamp on the higher brain of anyone. Therefore, the drugs can be used to subdue anyone.
In Tranquilizing of America (1979), Richard Hughes and Robert Brewin state:
"When used on a large population of institutionalized persons, as they are, they can help keep the house in order with the minimum program of activities and rehabilitation and the minimum number of attendants, aides, nurses, and doctors".
Again, there is no hiding the obvious real purpose of the drug. It saves money for the institutions and makes the people more manageable. Neuroleptic use is not rare or unusual. In fact,
"On many psychiatric wards the neuroleptics are given to 90 to 100 percent of the patients; in many nursing homes, to 50 percent or more of the old people; and in many institutions for persons with mental retardation, to 50 percent or more of the inmates. Neuroleptics are also used in children's facilities and in prisons." - Peter Breggin, Toxic Psychiatry
Neuroleptics have been used in the Soviet Union to quell political dissidents. Russian poet, Olga Iofe, was imprisoned and forcibly drugged. She was singled out for "treatment" after protesting against the resurgence of Stalinism. In Soviet Psychoprisons, says political scientist Harvey Fireside, "The massive drugs she was forcibly given were, in Dr. Norman Hirt's opinion, 'in fact a chemical lobotomy', in light of reports that, on her release, Iofe 'appears to be permanently damaged, an altered person' ".
On February 16, 1976, U.S. News and World Report quoted another Russian dissent who had been forced to take neuroleptics, in this case Haldol, "I was horrified to see how I deteriorated intellectually, morally and emotionally from day to day. My interest in political problems quickly disappeared, then my interest in scientific problems, and then my interest in my wife and children". The reader might assume he was given mega-doses of some especially deadly drug. On the contrary, "I was prescribed haloperidol (Haldol) in small doses."
The neuroleptics are also used in tranquilizing darts for subduing wild animals and in injections to permit the handling of domestic animals who become viscous. The psychiatrists continue to attempt to explain the mechanics of the neuroleptics as an alteration, for the better, of bad brain chemistry. The veterinary use of neuroleptics so undermines their antipsychotic theory that young psychiatrists are not taught about it.
Peter Breggin, M.D., psychiatrist, points out clearly that the purpose of Thorazine is to alter and disable normal brain functions. It is actually the HARM caused by the drug which produces the effect.
"The brain-disabling principle applies to all of the most potent psychiatric interventions - neuroleptics, antidepressants, lithium, electroshock, and psychosurgery. . . the major psychiatric treatments exert their primary or intended effect by disabling normal brain function. Neuroleptic lobotomy, for example, is not a side effect, but the sought-after clinical effect. Conversely, none of the major psychiatric interventions correct or improve existing brain dysfunction, such as any presumed biochemical imbalance. If the patient happens to suffer from brain dysfunction, then the psychiatric drug, electroshock, or psychosurgery will worsen or compound it."
The psychiatrists continue to promote and attempt to educate the public into believing Thorazine and other drugs "help" correct a mental disease. This is so far from the truth. That they even believe this themselves is meaningless. Whether or not some psychiatric patients have brain diseases (which has still never been verified - it's only a theory) is irrelevant to this brain-disabling principle. Even if someday a subtle defect is found in some mental patients, it will not change the damaging effect of the current treatments in use by psychiatry. Nor will it change the fact that the current treatments worsen brain function rather than improving it. If, for example, a person's emotional upset is caused by a hormonal problem, by a viral infection, or by ingestion of a hallucinogenic drug, the impact of the neuroleptics is still that of a lobotomy. The person now has his or her original brain damage and dysfunction plus a chemical lobotomy.
In summary, Thorazine, and all neuroleptics, cause chemical lobotomies with no specific therapeutic effect on any symptoms or problems. Their main impact is to blunt and subdue the individual. They also physically paralyze the body, acting as a chemical straightjacket. Additionally, these drugs are the cause of a plague of brain damage effecting up to half or more of long-term patients. Psychiatry refuses to accept these criticisms despite a large amount of evidence to the contrary. The psychiatric industry cannot tolerate dissemination of the truth as this strikes at the very core of their theoretical foundation (which is largely false).
As mentioned in other articles in this site, psychiatry and modern psychology have redefined the meaning of the word "psychology", and completely ignore addressing the person's actual problems they have with life and their own minds. The entire realm of personality, including thought, concentration, intention, imagination, goals, hopes, and dreams are omitted from the psychiatric approach. Dealing with these areas directly through counseling, support groups, religion or alternative methods such as meditation or visualization techniques, has been forgotten. The result is a complete attempt to control behavior ONLY, with absolutely no regard for the person themselves. It should be no surprise psychiatric methods actually inhibit and harm the basic aspects of the human personality which it's very nomenclature ignores and denies..
Psychiatry is a modern day belief system not dissimilar to the religious structures of the Spanish Inquisition. The psychiatrists are the High Priests, they tolerate no criticisms, will never alter their views despite all evidence to the contrary, and will fight relentlessly to maintain their positions of power and authority. What makes it worse though is that psychiatric theories, parading as "science", have insinuated themselves in nearly all aspects of modern society - government, law, medicine, sociology, social services, and education. Their influence is dulling the overall awareness and ability of the entire society.
(Much of the information in this article came from chapter 3 of Peter Breggin's classic expose on psychiatry, Toxic Psychiatry.)
The person who posted right after yours, said TRUTHFULLY, this was the scariest thing ...
All I can say to that is, stay out of the hospital. :shock: In my state, if you are admitted, you sign away your rights, as, especially, ALL intensive care patients are given anti-psychotics, and if that patient does not have a Durable Power of Attorney document on file, the "doctor" makes all decisions FOR them, as to what OTHER chemicals to infuse them with... Isn't that just lovely? Then,even WITH a DPoA, IF you are allowed to recover and go back to your life, you have to put up with hallucinations and anxiety attacks for a whole year afterward, if you are young, and if you are over 60 it is your new way of life, damaged and not knowing why...
I'm going to say this as sweetly as I am able: anyone who administers controlling drugs of slavery to ANY human being, for ANY fraction of time, deserves the ultimate (EQUAL) punishment, themselves, and the sooner the better, to prevent them from continuing in their STATE LICENSED, BOARD APPROVED, criminally destructive path.
ALL for LOVE.
These "doctors" and drug companies know EXACTLY what these chemicals do---they are NEVER innocent. Avoid them like the plague! THINK. BE FREE. LIVE ANOTHER DAY to do some good, here.
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could this be his searching in God support for his DID?
Do you mean that MJ search for god made him "lose it" or?
YES, TO LOOSE DID... :roll:
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@Jude
Starting from the fact that he was under the microscope, in his case, I believe that genetical predisposition is not primary to the evolution of his answers solving the conflicts of being bigger than himself.
He shows being more vulnerable than his other brothers and sisters, so, looking from that perspective, may be his nature was easier getting affected by the responsabilities he was exposed to and the enviroment.
When the family said "He was gone", at first I understood it like "he was gone in his head, he lost it"...he is, in the moon, floating (this thought came to me when i was confused and sick..but it made sense somehow).
His brothers and sisters were not under the same size of microscope, to say they were less vulnerable is not acurate
Pls, re-read my post.
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I posted this in another interesting thread;
http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=12085&start=350
Michael was bigger than life and somehow I also feel that his search for his Isis, was part of it.
All to me points to the same conclusion. He could not accept his stardom any longer.
Being "some one else" helped him to cop with his stressful life, in my opinion.
I am starting to think that may be what we are perceiving here are the thoughts of that magic man, Michael Jackson.
He had an extraordinary nature, I wish to have known the person behind he mask. Would have been an amazing journey to understand that genious mind.
The truth is that we don´t know who MJ really was.
We see a lovely, innocent, creative man who wanted to deliver a message, others see him from the hate and push him down.
How this thread has been developing, looks like some of us don´t want to accept that MJ could have been, or not, a person with a mental illness.
Moving one step forward, @its her mentioned the effects of drugs.
We all know that MJ (he said it himself) was under some very powerful pain killers. Long term intake of certain medications will affect the brain as well in a negative spiral.
After reading the AR, listening to the family and what MJ said, I now understand that one must start from point cero.
Possibilities:
-MJ was killed by a negligent doctor/ and-or, under the command of others
-MJ was killed by the result of years of taking inadequate prescription drugs prescribed by corrupt doctors
-MJ lost it and attempted to kill MJ-King of Pop by drinking propofol (inyecting himself sounds odd)or tried to harm himself to don´t face up the upcoming concerts
-MJ got a heart attack (not cardiac arrest) by all the stress
-MJ, in the need of building up another mental bridge to survive being MJ-the KOP, lost it and forgot it all
-MJ had a brain tumor...
-MJ was fed up with all and decided when and how MJ-the KOP died for the public eye.
-MJ tested how much people loved him and cared, so he faked his own death and snoops here and there testing people.
-MJ feared a lot for his life, he said that all those concerts would kill him, got suspicious, faked his death and wait for justice to be done and all the criminals around them will end up in jail.
-MJ wants to shock the world and will come back with the J-5.
-MJ wants to prove the media wrong and wants to win this time.
-Mj wants a new life as MJ the person, not the artist
-MJ really died on June 25th and we are still in denial.
What more possibilities are out there?
Limbo....I hate being in limbo....better to stop caring.
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I think some things in this thread are being farfetched..
But hey, that's just my opinion..let's give the man some privacy and not speculate this kind of things, it hurts, and it might hurt him too (imagine he reads the forum..)
Peace,
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@Jude
Starting from the fact that he was under the microscope, in his case, I believe that genetical predisposition is not primary to the evolution of his answers solving the conflicts of being bigger than himself.
He shows being more vulnerable than his other brothers and sisters, so, looking from that perspective, may be his nature was easier getting affected by the responsabilities he was exposed to and the enviroment.
When the family said "He was gone", at first I understood it like "he was gone in his head, he lost it"...he is, in the moon, floating (this thought came to me when i was confused and sick..but it made sense somehow).
His brothers and sisters were not under the same size of microscope, to say they were less vulnerable is not acurate
Pls, re-read my post.
He shows being more vulnerable than his other brothers and sisters, so, looking from that perspective, may be his nature was easier getting affected by the responsabilities he was exposed to and the enviroment.
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It is not uncommon for individuals who suffer from Lupus and Vitiligo to wear Medical ID Bracelets. This is due to the fact that they may be taking medications to treat these disorders. Michael may also have had allergies and this would also account for the wearing of Medical ID Bracelet.
Are there any medications people with lupus should avoid?
There are no absolute contraindications to medications for people with lupus. But, as people with lupus are usually 'allergic' people, your doctor should watch for any connection between flares & medications, especially oral contraceptives, sulfa antibiotics & penicillin.
http://www.uklupus.co.uk/new.html
There is also research that has been done that links food allergies to the increase in increased loss of pigment in the skin with Vitiligo and food allergies.
As far as mental illness goes this is pure speculation and has no factual foundation but we do KNOW that he suffered from Lupus and Vitiligo.
I suggest we stick to facts.
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True, Hazzely. It can hurt (I doubt he reads the forum)
All of our theories, investigations questions or speculations lead to the same answer. We don´t know who Michael Jackson was/ is.
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Another possibility, and this is the one that still stands out to me:
-MJ never lost it, was and is very aware of all the shit that's going on in the world and how people are screwed day after day for years already, and knew if there's anyone who can achieve a change it is him as he has millions of fans. In order to accomplish this he had to pull off something really big, so that all eyes in the entire world would be focused on him when he reveals his "trick" and people will finally listen to him.
Gema, you can't go on ignoring the overwhelming amount of evidence pointing is this direction.
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@Jude
Starting from the fact that he was under the microscope, in his case, I believe that genetical predisposition is not primary to the evolution of his answers solving the conflicts of being bigger than himself.
He shows being more vulnerable than his other brothers and sisters, so, looking from that perspective, may be his nature was easier getting affected by the responsabilities he was exposed to and the enviroment.
When the family said "He was gone", at first I understood it like "he was gone in his head, he lost it"...he is, in the moon, floating (this thought came to me when i was confused and sick..but it made sense somehow).
His brothers and sisters were not under the same size of microscope, to say they were less vulnerable is not acurate
Pls, re-read my post.
He shows being more vulnerable than his other brothers and sisters, so, looking from that perspective, may be his nature was easier getting affected by the responsabilities he was exposed to and the enviroment.
My post stars with "Starting from the fact that he was under the microscope, in his case, I believe that genetical predisposition is not primary to the evolution of his answers solving the conflicts of being bigger than himself."
I already made clear that he was exposed more than the others, plus more was expected from him.
Still we can see how the rest of the family evolved, being also critiziced to eternity.
Michael did show to be more sensitive than the other brothers.
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Another possibility, and this is the one that still stands out to me:
-MJ never lost it, was and is very aware of all the shit that's going on in the world and how people are screwed day after day for years already, and knew if there's anyone who can achieve a change it is him as he has millions of fans. In order to accomplish this he had to pull off something really big, so that all eyes in the entire world would be focused on him when he reveals his "trick" and people will finally listen to him.
Gema, you can't go on ignoring the overwhelming amount of evidence pointing is this direction.
Oh, I don´t ignore that posibility :) but I am dubious of what he wants to expose. To me looks like he wants to expose the criminal gang that was after him not "of all the shit that's going on in the world and how people are screwed day after day".
If that turns to be the case, I will be more than happy.
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Come on..he could have weared that bracelet because he liked it..I know people who wear it and they have no DID or any mental problem ..
If he really had DID or any of the things you mentioned before he would have weared that bracelet always, and he didn't ..
There's no need to dig so much in this kind of things..can't we think for a moment that he could have had it because he liked it?
Peace,
(http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/5651/overstockjeweler1943220.jpg) (http://img59.imageshack.us/i/overstockjeweler1943220.jpg/)
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It is not uncommon for individuals who suffer from Lupus and Vitiligo to wear Medical ID Bracelets. This is due to the fact that they may be taking medications to treat these disorders. Michael may also have had allergies and this would also account for the wearing of Medical ID Bracelet.
Are there any medications people with lupus should avoid?
There are no absolute contraindications to medications for people with lupus. But, as people with lupus are usually 'allergic' people, your doctor should watch for any connection between flares & medications, especially oral contraceptives, sulfa antibiotics & penicillin.
http://www.uklupus.co.uk/new.html
There is also research that has been done that links food allergies to the increase in increased loss of pigment in the skin with Vitiligo and food allergies.
As far as mental illness goes this is pure speculation and has no factual foundation but we do KNOW that he suffered from Lupus and Vitiligo.
I suggest we stick to facts.
Good that you mention this again.
In the AR thread was confirmed that he suffered Discoid lupus? His skin was breaking he said. Usually the inflamation is treated with cortisone.
Did the AR mention it?
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I for one will continue to investagate this theory, if who ever refuses to believe that Michael Jackson was a normal human being suseptable to the same illnesses as everyone else, then I humbly suggest they not put themselves through all this anguish and, with all do respect, not continue with this topic.
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Come on..he could have weared that bracelet because he liked it..I know people who wear it and they have no DID or any mental problem ..
If he really had DID or any of the things you mentioned before he would have weared that bracelet always, and he didn't ..
There's no need to dig so much in this kind of things..can't we think for a moment that he could have had it because he liked it?
Peace,
(http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/5651/overstockjeweler1943220.jpg) (http://img59.imageshack.us/i/overstockjeweler1943220.jpg/)
Those are used to engrave a name. Popular in Spain, btw. The perfect gift when a baby is born.
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Occam's Razor
The principle states that one should not make more assumptions than the minimum needed. This principle is often called the principle of parsimony. It underlies all scientific modelling and theory building. It admonishes us to choose from a set of otherwise equivalent models of a given phenomenon the simplest one. In any given model, Occam's razor helps us to "shave off" those concepts, variables or constructs that are not really needed to explain the phenomenon. By doing that, developing the model will become much easier, and there is less chance of introducing inconsistencies, ambiguities and redundancies.
http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/occamraz.html
Michael wore a Medical ID Bracelet because he suffered from Lupus & Vitiligo. This bracelet would enable anyone treating him to be aware of possible drug interactions and/or allergies, if he was unable to inform them himself.
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Come on..he could have weared that bracelet because he liked it..I know people who wear it and they have no DID or any mental problem ..
If he really had DID or any of the things you mentioned before he would have weared that bracelet always, and he didn't ..
There's no need to dig so much in this kind of things..can't we think for a moment that he could have had it because he liked it?
Peace,
(http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/5651/overstockjeweler1943220.jpg) (http://img59.imageshack.us/i/overstockjeweler1943220.jpg/)
Those are used to engrave a name. Popular in Spain, btw. The perfect gift when a baby is born.
Yes but that doesn't mean that whoever wears this bracelet has a mental problem or DID.................
Please, some people has it because it's nice and because they like it.. Why can't this happen in his case? Because he is MICHAEL JACKSON?
He was and still is a very lucid person...
Peace,
I think i'll stay away from this thread
-
Occam's Razor
The principle states that one should not make more assumptions than the minimum needed. This principle is often called the principle of parsimony. It underlies all scientific modelling and theory building. It admonishes us to choose from a set of otherwise equivalent models of a given phenomenon the simplest one. In any given model, Occam's razor helps us to "shave off" those concepts, variables or constructs that are not really needed to explain the phenomenon. By doing that, developing the model will become much easier, and there is less chance of introducing inconsistencies, ambiguities and redundancies.
http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/occamraz.html
Michael wore a Medical ID Bracelet because he suffered from Lupus & Vitiligo. This bracelet would enable anyone treating him to be aware of possible to drug interactions and/or allergies, if he was unable to inform them himself.
Sounds like the mission statement for the NWO
-
Occam's Razor
The principle states that one should not make more assumptions than the minimum needed. This principle is often called the principle of parsimony. It underlies all scientific modelling and theory building. It admonishes us to choose from a set of otherwise equivalent models of a given phenomenon the simplest one. In any given model, Occam's razor helps us to "shave off" those concepts, variables or constructs that are not really needed to explain the phenomenon. By doing that, developing the model will become much easier, and there is less chance of introducing inconsistencies, ambiguities and redundancies.
http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/occamraz.html
Michael wore a Medical ID Bracelet because he suffered from Lupus & Vitiligo. This bracelet would enable anyone treating him to be aware of possible to drug interactions and/or allergies, if he was unable to inform them himself.
Sounds like the mission statement for the NWO
Of course it does. I have gone from being accused of being TS to being an advocate for the NWO because I am logical, scientific, read a lot and stick to the facts.
William of Ockham was an English Franciscan friar and scholastic philosopher, who is believed to have been born in Ockham, a small village in Surrey. He is considered to be one of the major figures of medieval thought. He is commonly known for Occam's razor, the methodological principle that bears his name.
In science, Occam’s razor is used as a heuristic (rule of thumb) to guide scientists in the development of theoretical models rather than as an arbiter between published models.
Heuristic (Greek: "find" or "discover") is an adjective for experience-based techniques that help in problem solving, learning and discovery. A heuristic method is used to come to a solution rapidly that is hoped to be close to the best possible answer, or 'optimal solution'. A heuristic is a "rule of thumb", an educated guess, an intuitive judgment or simply common sense. A heuristic is a general way of solving a problem. Heuristics as a noun is another name for heuristic methods.
In more precise terms, heuristics stand for strategies using readily accessible, though loosely applicable, information to control problem solving in human beings and machines.
-
Occam's Razor
The principle states that one should not make more assumptions than the minimum needed. This principle is often called the principle of parsimony. It underlies all scientific modelling and theory building. It admonishes us to choose from a set of otherwise equivalent models of a given phenomenon the simplest one. In any given model, Occam's razor helps us to "shave off" those concepts, variables or constructs that are not really needed to explain the phenomenon. By doing that, developing the model will become much easier, and there is less chance of introducing inconsistencies, ambiguities and redundancies.
http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/occamraz.html
Michael wore a Medical ID Bracelet because he suffered from Lupus & Vitiligo. This bracelet would enable anyone treating him to be aware of possible to drug interactions and/or allergies, if he was unable to inform them himself.
Sounds like the mission statement for the NWO
Of course it does. I have gone from being accused of being TS to being an advocate for the NWO because I am logical, scientific, read a lot and stick to the facts.
hey, don't get your back up girl, I never said you were NWO I was commenting on the artical ,,,sheesh
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@Hazzely
The bracelet can be just for the sake of having it or, as @Serenity mentioned, to inform about the persons medical condition.
Also, it can come in a pendant or batch form, staing the blood type.
I never heard of the used of an engraved bracelet for DID profiles.
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Of course it does. I have gone from being accused of being TS to being an advocate for the NWO because I am logical, scientific, read a lot and stick to the facts.
:lol: :lol: :lol: you forgot to add that you have also been MJ
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@Hazzely
The bracelet can be just for the sake of having it or, as @Serenity mentioned, to inform about the persons medical condition.
Also, it can come in a pendant or batch form, staing the blood type.
I never heard of the used of an engraved bracelet for DID profiles.
Having said that , do we know what was written on the bracelet?
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Of course it does. I have gone from being accused of being TS to being an advocate for the NWO because I am logical, scientific, read a lot and stick to the facts.
:lol: :lol: :lol: you forgot to add that you have also been MJ
Yes, I did . It has also been suggested that I am Michael. though I assure you I can not moonwalk, lack his glowing personality and am missing several essential parts. :lol:
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I remember reading that was a diabetic one. But never got clear confirmation.
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:piTYhHbKhvKPmM:http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-3/128639/lifestar.jpg)
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:c_85gnZdKqsXiM:http://www.magnificentbastard.com/images/pics/medical-bracelet.jpg)
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Of course it does. I have gone from being accused of being TS to being an advocate for the NWO because I am logical, scientific, read a lot and stick to the facts.
:lol: :lol: :lol: you forgot to add that you have also been MJ
Yes, I did . It has also been suggested that I am Michael. though I assure you I can not moonwalk, lack his glowing personality and am missing several essential parts. :lol:
The most essencial, the visas :lol:
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Do we know , without any doubt, what was written on the medical ID bracelet?
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I tend to agree with Serenity, let's stick to facts. In my first post about this bracelet, I asked if there was mention of it by either the paramedics or hospital. How did they get the allergic information? We know he wore a bracelet, it's in pictures. In fact, it's in certain pictures very prominently...the one posted here by katoooooo and the Exley picture I described from the Remembering Michael magazine. Almost like he wants people to see it.
Does anyone know if this bracelet was on Michael at the time of his, "departure"? Was there mention of it, maybe TMZ....Harvey?
I do think Michael reads the hoax sites. Why on Earth wouldn't he? If all this is a hoax, certainly we are part of it. If he faked death for other reasons, I am sure he would want to be up on this hoax theory. It's so MJ ;)
Michael, please know you have our respect. We just can't figure you out!!!! :lol:
I am still waiting for my Coke............
Thank you all for your thoughts, theories, and determination....you're amazing!
Many Blessings to all!
L.O.V.E.
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A red thread
(http://craig.purplestateofmind.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/michael_jackson_this_is_it1.jpg)
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A green rubber band
(http://madnews.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/thisisit1.jpg)
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A black one
http://arvenru.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/rehearsals1.jpg
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None
(http://blackchristiannews.com/news/images/michael-jackson-getty-392.jpg)
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None
(http://blackchristiannews.com/news/images/michael-jackson-getty-392.jpg)
i think he had the red blacelet on but the sleeves were covering it.. In other photos taken the same day we can see it :?
A black one
http://arvenru.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/rehearsals1.jpg
That's the red bracelet but it may be confusing because of the lights
A green rubber band
(http://madnews.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/thisisit1.jpg)
3. Again, I THINK this is the "ID bracelet"
A red thread
(http://craig.purplestateofmind.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/michael_jackson_this_is_it1.jpg)
That's the bracelet he always wore
(http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/3452/picimgmichaeljacksonpre.jpg) (http://img3.imageshack.us/i/picimgmichaeljacksonpre.jpg/)
(http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/3030/getattachmentn.jpg) (http://img821.imageshack.us/i/getattachmentn.jpg/)
ZOOMED IN: http://www.celebitchy.com/wp-content/up ... 318043.jpg (http://www.celebitchy.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/full_michael_jackson_press_conference_03_wenn2318043.jpg)
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Sticking to the facts in this case is more like ignoring them.
Ok so give them to me, prove me wrong what are the facts, and not your opinion
And I'll ask again, not cuz I like chewing my cabbage twice, but anyway, for certain, what was written on the bracelet?
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Sticking to the facts in this case is more like ignoring them.
Ok so give them to me, prove me wrong what are the facts, and not your opinion
And I'll ask again, not cuz I like chewing my cabbage twice, but anyway, for certain, what was written on the bracelet?
If you can find out what exactly was written on Michael's Medical ID Bracelet, you can let us all know. ;)
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Sticking to the facts in this case is more like ignoring them.
Ok so give them to me, prove me wrong what are the facts, and not your opinion
And I'll ask again, not cuz I like chewing my cabbage twice, but anyway, for certain, what was written on the bracelet?
If you can find out what exactly was written on Michael's Medical ID Bracelet, you can let us all know. ;)
I rest my case!
now then back to what was the orignal topic, the bracelet, the allergy to a drug know to treat schizophrina, and his possible DID, that Mo and souza have mentioned.
This could take awhile, and all who have an intrest in investigateing furthur, I commend you.
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Chlorpromazine it´s used as well for other causes ;) like Porphyrias....(Cutaneous porphyria) and I Quote:
The cutaneous, or erythropoietic, porphyrias primarily affect the skin, causing photosensitivity (photodermatitis), blisters, necrosis of the skin and gums, itching, and swelling, and increased hair growth on areas such as the forehead. Often there is no abdominal pain, distinguishing it from other porphyrias.
In some forms of porphyria, accumulated heme precursors excreted in the urine may cause various changes in color, after exposure to sunlight, to a dark reddish or dark brown color. Even a purple hue or red urine may be seen.
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Sticking to the facts in this case is more like ignoring them.
Ok so give them to me, prove me wrong what are the facts, and not your opinion
And I'll ask again, not cuz I like chewing my cabbage twice, but anyway, for certain, what was written on the bracelet?
If you can find out what exactly was written on Michael's Medical ID Bracelet, you can let us all know. ;)
I rest my case!
now then back to what was the orignal topic, the bracelet, the allergy to a drug know to treat schizophrina, and his possible DID, that Mo and souza have mentioned.
This could take awhile, and all who have an intrest in investigateing furthur, I commend you.
Chlorpromazine it´s used as well for other causes ;) like Porphyrias....(Cutaneous porphyria) and I Quote:
The cutaneous, or erythropoietic, porphyrias primarily affect the skin, causing photosensitivity (photodermatitis), blisters, necrosis of the skin and gums, itching, and swelling, and increased hair growth on areas such as the forehead. Often there is no abdominal pain, distinguishing it from other porphyrias.
In some forms of porphyria, accumulated heme precursors excreted in the urine may cause various changes in color, after exposure to sunlight, to a dark reddish or dark brown color. Even a purple hue or red urine may be seen.
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Sticking to the facts in this case is more like ignoring them.
Ok so give them to me, prove me wrong what are the facts, and not your opinion
And I'll ask again, not cuz I like chewing my cabbage twice, but anyway, for certain, what was written on the bracelet?
If you can find out what exactly was written on Michael's Medical ID Bracelet, you can let us all know. ;)
I rest my case!
now then back to what was the orignal topic, the bracelet, the allergy to a drug know to treat schizophrina, and his possible DID, that Mo and souza have mentioned.
This could take awhile, and all who have an intrest in investigateing furthur, I commend you.
Chlorpromazine it´s used as well for other causes ;) like Porphyrias....(Cutaneous porphyria) and I Quote:
The cutaneous, or erythropoietic, porphyrias primarily affect the skin, causing photosensitivity (photodermatitis), blisters, necrosis of the skin and gums, itching, and swelling, and increased hair growth on areas such as the forehead. Often there is no abdominal pain, distinguishing it from other porphyrias.
In some forms of porphyria, accumulated heme precursors excreted in the urine may cause various changes in color, after exposure to sunlight, to a dark reddish or dark brown color. Even a purple hue or red urine may be seen.
Was that on his bracelet?
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Anyway Gema I'm tired of blabbin' back and forth with you, you do what you want and I'll do what I want, hows that?
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Sticking to the facts in this case is more like ignoring them.
Ok so give them to me, prove me wrong what are the facts, and not your opinion
And I'll ask again, not cuz I like chewing my cabbage twice, but anyway, for certain, what was written on the bracelet?
If you can find out what exactly was written on Michael's Medical ID Bracelet, you can let us all know. ;)
I rest my case!
now then back to what was the orignal topic, the bracelet, the allergy to a drug know to treat schizophrina, and his possible DID, that Mo and souza have mentioned.
This could take awhile, and all who have an intrest in investigateing furthur, I commend you.
you have nothing to base your assumption on...
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Jude,
The opening post of this thread:
by wishingstar » Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:03 pm
Hey guys.....
Something is bugging me....it is known that Michael wears a medical id bracelet.
We can see it in various pictures...trial pics, Exley pics etc.
I have looked around at TII pics or pictures from that time frame, I might be able to see it on a few. But not really sure........
does anyone have or know of clear recent photos in which we can see it?
Has far as I can tell, there is no mention of it within the paramedics report or autopsy report(did I miss it)..........wouldn't it be there? The paramedic report states he is allergic to thorizine (fyi...misspelling: should be thorazine, I think)
Where did they get this information....Murray, Alvarez....etc? I would think they would state on the report something like:
"....patient has medical id bracelet stating allergy to thorazine, lupus......"
Nobody knows what the medical bracelet has written on it.
The thread went on with the speculation of Michael suffering from Schizophrenia due to the supossed used to this medication which happens to be allergic from.
I just made clear that Chlorpromazine (marketed as Thorazine among others) it is used as well to treat other symptoms from other sufferings, like cutaneous (erythropoietic) porphyrias, which makes more sense than the schizo theory since it is a fact that MJ suffered a skin condition that we know as vitiligo but could have been something else since "lupus" was involved in MJ health.....also to say that porphyria affects the nerv system and other organs....so much of a coincidence.....
I am not evaluating MJ health, I am just opposing the schizo theorists.
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http://badbanana.typepad.com/weblog/200 ... g_the.html (http://badbanana.typepad.com/weblog/2007/06/advertising_the.html)
check the advertising out...
:?
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Jude,
The opening post of this thread:
by wishingstar » Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:03 pm
Hey guys.....
Something is bugging me....it is known that Michael wears a medical id bracelet.
We can see it in various pictures...trial pics, Exley pics etc.
I have looked around at TII pics or pictures from that time frame, I might be able to see it on a few. But not really sure........
does anyone have or know of clear recent photos in which we can see it?
Has far as I can tell, there is no mention of it within the paramedics report or autopsy report(did I miss it)..........wouldn't it be there? The paramedic report states he is allergic to thorizine (fyi...misspelling: should be thorazine, I think)
Where did they get this information....Murray, Alvarez....etc? I would think they would state on the report something like:
"....patient has medical id bracelet stating allergy to thorazine, lupus......"
Nobody knows what the medical bracelet has written on it.
The thread went on with the speculation of Michael suffering from Schizophrenia due to the supossed used to this medication which happens to be allergic from.
I just made clear that Chlorpromazine (marketed as Thorazine among others) it is used as well to treat other symptoms from other sufferings, like cutaneous (erythropoietic) porphyrias, which makes more sense than the schizo theory sinc it is a fact that MJ suffered a skin condition that we know as vitiligo but could have been something else since "lupus" was involved in MJ health.....alo to say that porphyria affects the nerv system and other organs....so much of a coincidence.....
I am not evaluating MJ health, I am just opposing the schizo theorists.
and what facts do you have to denounce the schizo theory, listen I take a antidepressant to controle my menopause,at the same time tho it keeps my mood stable, it was;nt origanaly perscribed for depression, but with menopause depression is a common side effect.
Get what I'm saying?
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Either you are depressed or you are not, Jude. Independently of what it´s triggering it, enviroment or hormons.
I never ever had the chance to talk face to face to MJ, observe him in his enviroment or listen to his "delutions" or the way he conceives the world, his true fears or perceptions of reality. By that, I cannot say if MJ was or not Schizo, so I hope that rule applies to all of the readers, also the pro-schizo theorists.
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Either you are depressed or you are not, Jude. Independently of what it´s triggering it, enviroment or hormons.
I never ever had the chance to talk face to face to MJ, observe him in his enviroment or listen to his "delutions" or the way he conceives the world, his true fears or perceptions of reality. By that, I cannot say if MJ was or not Schizo, so I hope that rule applies to all of the readers, also the pro-schizo theorists.
Never once said he was schizo, reread the posts, I said its worth investagating, and if you fear the outcome of it, if something comes up that COULD support the theory, then I can only say that you may be in denial and closed minded to the suggestion.
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From Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaJump to: navigation, search
Michael Jackson in May 1984.Michael Jackson (August 29, 1958 – June 25, 2009) was an American musician and entertainer who spent over forty years in the public eye, first as a child star with The Jackson 5, and later as a solo artist.
Starting in the mid-1980s it became clear that Jackson's appearance was changing dramatically. His skin tone became lighter, his nose and facial shape changed, and he lost weight. The lighter skin tone was initially caused by vitiligo and lupus — with which Jackson was diagnosed in 1986—and his use of make-up to cover the blotched skin.[1] Surgeons speculated he also had a rhinoplasty, a forehead lift, cheekbone surgery, and altered his lips.[2] Those close to the singer say that, by 1990, he had undergone around ten procedures.
Jackson and some of his siblings said they had been physically and emotionally abused by their father, and in 2003, his father admitted whipping Jackson as a child.[3] Jackson rarely spoke about it, but when he did, he became very emotional and said he would vomit before meeting his father. Mental health experts said he had the mind of a regressed ten-year-old, while other physicians said he suffered from body dysmorphic disorder. Dr. Deepak Chopra, a friend of Jackson's for 20 years, said: "What became his compulsion with cosmetic surgery was an expression of self-mutilation, a total lack of respect for himself."[4]
At some point during the 1990s, it appeared that Jackson became dependent on prescription drugs, mainly painkillers and strong sedatives, and his health deteriorated dramatically. He went into rehabilitation in 1993 with the help of Elizabeth Taylor and Elton John,[5] but the addiction remained. He died of cardiac arrest on June 25, 2009.
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Either you are depressed or you are not, Jude. Independently of what it´s triggering it, enviroment or hormons.
I never ever had the chance to talk face to face to MJ, observe him in his enviroment or listen to his "delutions" or the way he conceives the world, his true fears or perceptions of reality. By that, I cannot say if MJ was or not Schizo, so I hope that rule applies to all of the readers, also the pro-schizo theorists.
Never once said he was schizo, reread the posts, I said its worth investagating, and if you fear the outcome of it, if something comes up that COULD support the theory, then I can only say that you may be in denial and closed minded to the suggestion.
Yeah, should be you the one to judge me.....
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Jude, you are contradicting yourself.
I made my point clear and said all I had to say.
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http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p ... 23B09F8871 (http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=9DFD2C23B09F8871)
Somewhere at the end of the video series a few different 'Mikes'. Everything points to DID. We all know he had medical issues, we all know he had times where he acted differently. Why deny he could have such a disorder? I think we can speculate on that and have our opinions about it. It's not disrespectful, it's trying to find out what happened in his life.
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http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=9DFD2C23B09F8871
Somewhere at the end of the video series a few different 'Mikes'. Everything points to DID. We all know he had medical issues, we all know he had times where he acted differently. Why deny he could have such a disorder? I think we can speculate on that and have our opinions about it. It's not disrespectful, it's trying to find out what happened in his life.
I agree Souza, why deny it, as I said before he is a normal human being, suseptable to the same illinesses as all of us, it don't change how I feel about him, in fact if he accomplished all that he did while having a disorded, then truly he is an exceptional human being, and I respect that with all my heart.
To Gema, dear I'm not judging you, and I have not contradicated myself, it's a fact that Michael did behave strangely at times, and if what the other poster said is true about the brother saying he was diagnosed with schizophrina, that coupled with the drug used to treat the disorder, then I want to know, what, where, when, and why. You can also look at this as a way of ruling it out, don't feel bad, I know you are because I can feel it, even from here,take a deep breath,and try to relax a little
peace
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There are many theories:
DID Theory
Doubles Theory
Twin Theory
Doppleganger Theory
Dualism Theory
All are simply theories, none is more believable than any other.
The fact is that you do not know what was written on the Medical ID bracelet. You can assume this or that was but it doesn`t make it so.
We do not have access to Michael`s medical records. We do not know for a fact that he suffered from any mental illness or was even treated for any mental illness. We simply do not know.
All theories are just as relevant as any other theory and it is your own perspective that makes one more believable, over another for you individually and it has nothing to do with being closed minded. Until something is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, that it is fact, they all remain simply theories based on speculation alone.
We do know that Michael suffered from Lupus and Vitiligo, knowing this, it is most likely that a medical ID bracelet would have been worn due to these afflictions. Until that is proven otherwise it is the most logical explanation.
As far as Michael`s behaviour goes, to be a free thinker and act according to that; to be different and challenge the social norms does not mean that someone is suffering from mental illness. Again we do not know his motivations behind his behaviour, so to say he behaved strangely, weird, bizarre, odd etc is judge based only on what you perceive and society suggests is normal. This does not mean that this judgment is correct, it is based solely on what you have been taught and or society dictates as correct but many great thinkers and those who wished to create change have challenged previously accepted norms. As well, his behaviour often seems to be related to the hoax, some of it could have been the planting of seeds for revelation at this time.
I personally find the Dualism Theory the most appealing to myself. Does this mean that it is the correct one, no but it means it is the one that appeals to my way of thinking and from the evidence, that I believe I have found or been led to. It will be the same for all of us.
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1) we know he wore a medical bracelet. It shows the medical sign clearly on the front, in the Exley picture. What it was for.... who knows..... I don't care what it was for. I care if he had it on, at the time of death. That was my original question. The mention of thorazine came only because I noticed it was mentioned as an allergy on the paramedic report. I put 2 and 2 together.....if he has a drug allergy, how did they know? Murray? Staff? Kids? ID bracelet? I remembered seeing what looked like an ID bracelet in the Exley picture......sure enough. I searched, and found he did wear it. All sites point to vitiligo and lupus as the reason for the bracelet. I figured the drug was listed as well, just unknown to the general public. The misspelling caught my eye and I dug around gematria: thorizine=124=Michael Jackson thorazine=116=Liberian Girl ..... (what are the odds....that's for another thread, "Coincidences....?")
I never wanted this thread to dig around the theory of mental illness. I just wanted to know if he was wearing the bracelet. I respect all of the opinions and thoughts, but please, try to keep neutral. We need to stay focused and press onward. It's a great group here!
Blessings to each of you!
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1) we know he wore a medical bracelet. It shows the medical sign clearly on the front, in the Exley picture. What it was for.... who knows..... I don't care what it was for. I care if he had it on, at the time of death. That was my original question. The mention of thorazine came only because I noticed it was mentioned as an allergy on the paramedic report. I put 2 and 2 together.....if he has a drug allergy, how did they know? Murray? Staff? Kids? ID bracelet? I remembered seeing what looked like an ID bracelet in the Exley picture......sure enough. I searched, and found he did wear it. All sites point to vitiligo and lupus as the reason for the bracelet. I figured the drug was listed as well, just unknown to the general public. The misspelling caught my eye and I dug around gematria: thorizine=124=Michael Jackson thorazine=116=Liberian Girl ..... (what are the odds....that's for another thread, "Coincidences....?")
I never wanted this thread to dig around the theory of mental illness. I just wanted to know if he was wearing the bracelet. I respect all of the opinions and thoughts, but please, try to keep neutral. We need to stay focused and press onward. It's a great group here!
Blessings to each of you!
First time I saw him wearing that medical bracelet was 2004, and last time 2005.
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1) we know he wore a medical bracelet. It shows the medical sign clearly on the front, in the Exley picture. What it was for.... who knows..... I don't care what it was for. I care if he had it on, at the time of death. That was my original question. The mention of thorazine came only because I noticed it was mentioned as an allergy on the paramedic report. I put 2 and 2 together.....if he has a drug allergy, how did they know? Murray? Staff? Kids? ID bracelet? I remembered seeing what looked like an ID bracelet in the Exley picture......sure enough. I searched, and found he did wear it. All sites point to vitiligo and lupus as the reason for the bracelet. I figured the drug was listed as well, just unknown to the general public. The misspelling caught my eye and I dug around gematria: thorizine=124=Michael Jackson thorazine=116=Liberian Girl ..... (what are the odds....that's for another thread, "Coincidences....?")
I never wanted this thread to dig around the theory of mental illness. I just wanted to know if he was wearing the bracelet. I respect all of the opinions and thoughts, but please, try to keep neutral. We need to stay focused and press onward. It's a great group here!
Blessings to each of you!
First time I saw him wearing that medical bracelet was 2004, and last time 2005.
Interesting.....why such a small amount of time? He is a perfectionist for sure. If he didn't want people to see it in pictures, he would have made sure it was out of sight....the Exley pictures for sure. I would think anyways. So, if he stopped wearing it, how did the ER crew know about the allergy? I am sure that was the furthest thing from Murrays' mind at the time.
Thanks for the information!
Have a great day!
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Moving back to the most plausible theory, here my 2 cents:
J-W Medical Jewelry
(http://adrocaleb.tripod.com/msl163.jpg)
JW - NO BLOOD -
The Twist-O-Flex bracelets listed above include an abbreviated Advance Medical Directive form (Acts 15:28,29) on which you can list your Healthcare Agent and Alternate Agent and their phone numbers. The form states that you have completed an Advance Medical Directive and Healthcare Power of Attorney, that you will accept no Blood Transfusions under any circumstances, but will accept nonblood volume expanders and other non-blood management. The reverse side provides space for listing Allergies, current medications, and medical problems. THIS FORM BRINGS YOUR SPECIFIC DIRECTIVE IMMEDIATELY TO THE ATTENTION OF EMERGENCY TREATMENT PERSONNEL WITHOUT THEIR HAVING TO SEARCH YOUR WALLET OR PURSE. NEVERTHELESS, YOU SHOULD STILL CARRY YOUR ADVANCE MEDICAL DIRECTIVE CARD IN YOUR WALLET OR PURSE FOR MAXIMUM PROTECTION.
http://adrocaleb.tripod.com/JWShowcase1.htm
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1) we know he wore a medical bracelet. It shows the medical sign clearly on the front, in the Exley picture. What it was for.... who knows..... I don't care what it was for. I care if he had it on, at the time of death. That was my original question. The mention of thorazine came only because I noticed it was mentioned as an allergy on the paramedic report. I put 2 and 2 together.....if he has a drug allergy, how did they know? Murray? Staff? Kids? ID bracelet? I remembered seeing what looked like an ID bracelet in the Exley picture......sure enough. I searched, and found he did wear it. All sites point to vitiligo and lupus as the reason for the bracelet. I figured the drug was listed as well, just unknown to the general public. The misspelling caught my eye and I dug around gematria: thorizine=124=Michael Jackson thorazine=116=Liberian Girl ..... (what are the odds....that's for another thread, "Coincidences....?")
I never wanted this thread to dig around the theory of mental illness. I just wanted to know if he was wearing the bracelet. I respect all of the opinions and thoughts, but please, try to keep neutral. We need to stay focused and press onward. It's a great group here!
Blessings to each of you!
First time I saw him wearing that medical bracelet was 2004, and last time 2005.
Interesting.....why such a small amount of time? He is a perfectionist for sure. If he didn't want people to see it in pictures, he would have made sure it was out of sight....the Exley pictures for sure. I would think anyways. So, if he stopped wearing it, how did the ER crew know about the allergy? I am sure that was the furthest thing from Murrays' mind at the time.
Thanks for the information!
Have a great day!
(Edit**
I can clearly see that he was already wearing the bracelet in the "OK Magazine" footage from Prince's B-Day 2003, and I'm almost sure I can also see the bracelet when he was showing baby Blanket to his fans in Berlin, 2002.)
He did have Vitiligo, but I highly doubt he wore an ID Bracelet because of it nor because its treatment (topical treatment, with creams). It was said he had Discoid Lupus, again I don't think he would need a bracelet for that.
Since 2005 he didn't wear the bracelet anymore, so I assume Dr. Murray was the source for the Paramedics Report.
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All I can say is, you go your way of thinking and I'll go mine, it's the only respectable thing we could do at this point, and, no hard feeling on my part, just to make that clear!
Peace and love to all!
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All I can say is, you go your way of thinking and I'll go mine, it's the only respectable thing we could do at this point, and, no hard feeling on my part, just to make that clear!
Peace and love to all!
Absolutely..... thank you....peace and love always!
You are awesome!
L.O.V.E.
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Ever heard about this?
http://allforloveblog.com/?p=2928 (http://allforloveblog.com/?p=2928) Evan Chandler drugged Michael ( ????)
Latoya said once that michael was afraid to be poisoned..
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Mike told Dick Gregory that people poisoned him:
[youtube:x7bjpx5x]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HluEtIMI0VY[/youtube:x7bjpx5x]
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It is said tht at the end, the only ate food that his kids provided to him.
This last statement I wrote, don´t remember the source, but makes no sense then with MJ dietitian, who said that MJ ate the day before what she cooked, tuna fish with some sallad, and he said "Thank you, God blees you". Does anybody remember this?
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http://www.tmz.com/tmz-live/?mediaKey=e ... reURL=true (http://www.tmz.com/tmz-live/?mediaKey=e660c735-c8fc-41b4-9da9-dd57317c4a3b&isShareURL=true)
Also a poisoner? ..anyway he died in a weird way.
Was he a druggie or not?
http://allforloveblog.com/?p=2269 (http://allforloveblog.com/?p=2269) ?
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All I can say is, you go your way of thinking and I'll go mine, it's the only respectable thing we could do at this point, and, no hard feeling on my part, just to make that clear!
Peace and love to all!
Absolutely..... thank you....peace and love always!
You are awesome!
L.O.V.E.
Thank you Wishingstar, that was sweet :D
Love and peace
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1) we know he wore a medical bracelet. It shows the medical sign clearly on the front, in the Exley picture. What it was for.... who knows..... I don't care what it was for. I care if he had it on, at the time of death. That was my original question. The mention of thorazine came only because I noticed it was mentioned as an allergy on the paramedic report. I put 2 and 2 together.....if he has a drug allergy, how did they know? Murray? Staff? Kids? ID bracelet? I remembered seeing what looked like an ID bracelet in the Exley picture......sure enough. I searched, and found he did wear it. All sites point to vitiligo and lupus as the reason for the bracelet. I figured the drug was listed as well, just unknown to the general public. The misspelling caught my eye and I dug around gematria: thorizine=124=Michael Jackson thorazine=116=Liberian Girl ..... (what are the odds....that's for another thread, "Coincidences....?")
I never wanted this thread to dig around the theory of mental illness. I just wanted to know if he was wearing the bracelet. I respect all of the opinions and thoughts, but please, try to keep neutral. We need to stay focused and press onward. It's a great group here!
Blessings to each of you!
Hey All,
I usually try to keep to myself most of the time, but after reading this thread and all the bickering that has been 6 pages long. I feel I need to ask a question!
This whole thing has been about something that was reported on the "paramedic report"!!!??? The autopsy report was false and who says that this report was not false also?? Does anyone have proof that the "paramedic report" was authentic? If so I apologize in advance! But if no one can prove that it is real, then do you see where this whole thread has been a waste of time and just another debate on whether Michael had DID or was a mind control victim, etc...Everyone has their own theories and beliefs and we should respect one another for their individualism. But we also need to remember who it is we are talking about....Michael...who is a genius, a master of illusion...who is I believe capable of most anything and I would never underestimate him what so ever!! With having said that, I also know he was human and I believe he is entitled to some privacy in his life and sometimes people forget that when digging his life apart in the name of the "death hoax".
For me all that matters is that Michael is alive, happy, healthy, and is with his children. I do think he hoaxed his death for a few different reasons. The main one being to save our planet and our lives and to bring this world back to a state of LOVE & PEACE. But we can never get to that state of peacefulness if we continue to daily have these threads of disagreement. We need to be spreading happiness, joy, LOVE and peace and it starts with us! If we believers can't even get along and agree to disagree, then how in God's name are we ever going to convince the non believers?? I'll leave you with that question!
I didn't respond to this to hurt anyone's feelings and if I did I am truly sorry that was not my intention. I'm a lover not a fighter. Let's start loving more and spread Michael's message of peace. Thanks for listening!
Gob Bless you all, I love you!
Please remember Michael's words....Don't beLIEve everything you read or hear!! :)
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Ever heard about this?
http://allforloveblog.com/?p=2928 (http://allforloveblog.com/?p=2928) Evan Chandler drugged Michael ( ????)
Latoya said once that michael was afraid to be poisoned..
Does this item have a post of it's own as it shoul have it is very important the whole thing makes sense then chandler commits.suicide maybe he couldn't take the shame possibly
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http://www.nami.org/Template.cfm?Sectio ... entID=4858 (http://www.nami.org/Template.cfm?Section=Helpline1&template=/ContentManagement/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=4858)
"People with Mental Illness Enrich Our Lives"
Information about famous people throughout history who have had a serious mental illness.
Abraham Lincoln
The revered sixteenth President of the United States suffered from severe and incapacitating depressions that occasionally led to thoughts of suicide, as documented in numerous biographies by Carl Sandburg.
Virginia Woolf
The British novelist who wrote To the Lighthouse and Orlando experienced the mood swings of bipolar disorder characterized by feverish periods of writing and weeks immersed in gloom. Her story is discussed in The Dynamics of Creation by Anthony Storr.
Lionel Aldridge
A defensive end for Vince Lombardi's legendary Green Bay Packers of the 1960's, Aldridge played in two Super Bowls. In the 1970's, he suffered from schizophrenia and was homeless for two and a half years. Until his death in 1998, he gave inspirational talks on his battle against paranoid schizophrenia. His story is the story of numerous newspaper articles.
Eugene O'Neill
The famous playwright, author of Long Day's Journey Into Night and Ah, Wilderness!, suffered from clinical depression, as documented in Eugene O'Neill by Olivia E. Coolidge.
Ludwig van Beethoven
The brilliant composer experienced bipolar disorder, as documented in The Key to Genius: Manic Depression and the Creative Life by D. Jablow Hershman and Julian Lieb.
Gaetano Donizetti
The famous opera singer suffered from bipolar disorder, as documented in Donizetti and the World Opera in Italy, Paris and Vienna in the First Half of the Nineteenth Century by Herbert Weinstock.
Robert Schumann
The "inspired poet of human suffering" experienced bipolar disorder, as discussed in The Dynamics of Creation by Anthony Storr.
Leo Tolstoy
Author of War and Peace, Tolstoy revealed the extent of his own mental illness in the memoir Confession. His experiences is also discussed in The Dynamics of Creation by Anthony Storr and The Inner World of Mental Illness: A Series of First Person Accounts of What It Was Like by Bert Kaplan.
Vaslov Nijinsky
The dancer's battle with schizophrenia is documented in his autobiography, The Diary of Vaslov Nijinksy.
John Keats
The renowned poet's mental illness is documented in The Dynamics of Creation by Anthony Storr and The Broken Brain: The biological Revolution in Psychiatry by Nancy Andreasen, M.D.
Tennessee Williams
The playwright gave a personal account of his struggle with clinical depression in his own Memoirs. His experience is also documented in Five O'Clock Angel: Letters of Tennessee Williams to Maria St. Just, 1948-1982; The Kindness of Strangers: The Life of Tennessee Williams by Donald Spoto, and Tennessee: Cry of the Heart by Dotson.
Vincent Van Gogh
The celebrated artist's bipolar disorder is discussed in The Key to Genius: Manic Depression and the Creative Life by D. Jablow Hershman and Julian Lieb and Dear Theo, The Autobiography of Van Gogh.
Isaac Newton
The scientist's mental illness is discussed in The Dynamics of Creation by Anthony Storr and The Key to Genius: Manic Depression and the Creative Life by D. Jablow Hershman and Julian Lieb.
Ernest Hemingway
The Pulitzer Prize-winning novelist's suicidal depression is examined in the True Gen: An Intimate Portrait of Ernest Hemingway by Those Who Knew Him by Denis Brian.
Sylvia Plath
The poet and novelist ended her lifelong struggle with clinical depresion by taking own life, as reported in A Closer Look at Ariel: A Memory of Sylvia Plath by nancy Hunter-Steiner.
Michelangelo
The mental illness of one of the world's greatest artistic geniuses is discussed in The Dynamics of Creation by Anthony Storr.
Winston Churchill
"Had he been a stable and equable man, he could never have inspired the nation. In 1940, when all the odds were against Britain, a leader of sober judgment might well have concluded that we were finished," wrote Anthony Storr about Churchill's bipolar disorder in Churchill's Black Dog, Kafka's Mice, and Other Phenomena of the Human Mind.
Vivien Leigh
The Gone with the Wind star suffered from mental illness, as documented in Vivien Leigh: A Biography by Ann Edwards.
Jimmy Piersall
The baseball player for the Boston Red Sox who suffered from bipolar disorder detailed his experience in The Truth Hurts.
Patty Duke
The Academy Award-winning actress told of her bipolar disorder in her autobiography and made-for-TV move Call Me Anna and A Brilliant Madness: Living with Manic-Depressive Illness, co-authored by Gloria Hochman.
Charles Dickens
One of the greatest authors in the English language suffered from clinical depression, as documented in The Key to Genius: Manic Depression and the Creative Life by D. Jablow Hershman and Julian Lieb, and Charles Dickens: His Tragedy and Triumph by Edgar Johnson.
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Latoya said once that michael was afraid to be poisoned
Paranoid Schizophrenia
Paranoid schizophrenia is the most common form. With this type of schizophrenia, the primary symptoms are delusions or auditory hallucinations. People with paranoid schizophrenia usually do not have thought disorder, disorganized behavior, or affective flattening.
People with this condition have grandiose delusions. For example, they may believe that others are deliberately:
•Cheating them
•Harassing them
•Poisoning them
•Spying upon them
•Plotting against them or the people they care about.
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Latoya said once that michael was afraid to be poisoned
Paranoid Schizophrenia
Paranoid schizophrenia is the most common form. With this type of schizophrenia, the primary symptoms are delusions or auditory hallucinations. People with paranoid schizophrenia usually do not have thought disorder, disorganized behavior, or affective flattening.
People with this condition have grandiose delusions. For example, they may believe that others are deliberately:
•Cheating them
•Harassing them
•Poisoning them
•Spying upon them
•Plotting against them or the people they care about.
I don't think Mike only thought he was poisoned, I think he has been poisoned, for years.
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Latoya said once that michael was afraid to be poisoned
Paranoid Schizophrenia
Paranoid schizophrenia is the most common form. With this type of schizophrenia, the primary symptoms are delusions or auditory hallucinations. People with paranoid schizophrenia usually do not have thought disorder, disorganized behavior, or affective flattening.
People with this condition have grandiose delusions. For example, they may believe that others are deliberately:
•Cheating them
•Harassing them
•Poisoning them
•Spying upon them
•Plotting against them or the people they care about.
I don't think Mike only thought he was poisoned, I think he has been poisoned, for years. And I don't think he is schizophrenic, I think he has DID, there is a big difference, altough DID is often misdiagnosed as schizophrenia.
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I wouldn't be able to say for sure, either way.
It's that drug thorazine that just keeps bugging me to no end, but Michael has been said to have everything from Autism to Trauma disorder.
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I wouldn't be able to say for sure, either way.
It's that drug thorazine that just keeps bugging me to no end, but Michael has been said to have everything from Autism to Trauma disorder.
Kids with autism are more easy to control, they are 'good targets', so that would make sense.
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I wouldn't be able to say for sure, either way.
It's that drug thorazine that just keeps bugging me to no end, but Michael has been said to have everything from Autism to Trauma disorder.
Kids with autism are more easy to control, they are 'good targets', so that would make sense.
From my research, he does have some symptoms of a mild form of autism called aspergers syndrom, symptoms include, intensity on things till they get it right, like Mike, relates to children and animals better then wih adults, Mike again, spend alot of time alone even tho they have family and friends, and have this hunched over apperance, like bad posture, there is more, and since its mild, each individual has different behaviours.
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I wouldn't be able to say for sure, either way.
It's that drug thorazine that just keeps bugging me to no end, but Michael has been said to have everything from Autism to Trauma disorder.
Kids with autism are more easy to control, they are 'good targets', so that would make sense.
From my research, he does have some symptoms of a mild form of autism called aspergers syndrom, symptoms include, intensity on things till they get it right, like Mike, relates to children and animals better then wih adults, Mike again, spend alot of time alone even tho they have family and friends, and have this hunched over apperance, like bad posture, there is more, and since its mild, each individual has different behaviours.
Yes I am familiar with aspergers, one of my class mates had asperger. It's indeed a mild form and I remember he was very sweet. A loner, shy, had bunches of pets and was never nasty. He read a lot as well, knew everything about the subjects that mattered to him.
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And entertaining ment alot to Mike :!:
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My 12 yr old son is a high functioning Autistic, meaning he is not as severe. While he has socializing problems, he does ok after he gets to know someone a little. He does love his animals, he prefers human interaction more. My son does not have a hunched over appearance at all. He is very smart in the things that interest him, like someone above said. He is a wonderful artist, and a whiz on the computer and at video games. He just has problems with the easy things. One thing is being able to express his emotions. Although he is a happy, loving and very affectionate young man. He loves everyone and says "I have only Peace, Love & Joy in my heart Mom". He is my special Angel!!
That's why I am not convinced that an Autistic child would be easy to mind control. They are in their own little world. If someone were to try that with my son he would invert into himself and would probably completely shut down and quit talking all together. I have witnessed children at school making fun of him and thank God he does not seem to internalize it. But again if he did he probably would not be able to tell us, as he does not know how to convey those feelings. I would not even venture to say what things Michael has endured in his life as I was not witness to it and therefore will not speculate on it. Only Michael knows what happened to him and just maybe he would like to forget it and put it behind him.
Gob Bless you all, I love you!
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My 12 yr old son is a high functioning Autistic, meaning he is not as severe. While he has socializing problems, he does ok after he gets to know someone a little. He does love his animals, he prefers human interaction more. My son does not have a hunched over appearance at all. He is very smart in the things that interest him, like someone above said. He is a wonderful artist, and a whiz on the computer and at video games. He just has problems with the easy things. One thing is being able to express his emotions. Although he is a happy, loving and very affectionate young man. He loves everyone and says "I have only Peace, Love & Joy in my heart Mom". He is my special Angel!!
That's why I am not convinced that an Autistic child would be easy to mind control. They are in their own little world. If someone were to try that with my son he would invert into himself and would probably completely shut down and quit talking all together. I have witnessed children at school making fun of him and thank God he does not seem to internalize it. But again if he did he probably would not be able to tell us, as he does not know how to convey those feelings. I would not even venture to say what things Michael has endured in his life as I was not witness to it and therefore will not speculate on it. Only Michael knows what happened to him and just maybe he would like to forget it and put it behind him.
Gob Bless you all, I love you!
God bless your boy, and may he always have a loving mother like you to love him :D
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Yes I am familiar with aspergers, one of my class mates had asperger. It's indeed a mild form and I remember he was very sweet. A loner, shy, had bunches of pets and was never nasty. He read a lot as well, knew everything about the subjects that mattered to him.
For some reason that reminds me how I often wish MJ had been born with a sharper tongue and attitude..
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My 12 yr old son is a high functioning Autistic, meaning he is not as severe. While he has socializing problems, he does ok after he gets to know someone a little. He does love his animals, he prefers human interaction more. My son does not have a hunched over appearance at all. He is very smart in the things that interest him, like someone above said. He is a wonderful artist, and a whiz on the computer and at video games. He just has problems with the easy things. One thing is being able to express his emotions. Although he is a happy, loving and very affectionate young man. He loves everyone and says "I have only Peace, Love & Joy in my heart Mom". He is my special Angel!!
That's why I am not convinced that an Autistic child would be easy to mind control. They are in their own little world. If someone were to try that with my son he would invert into himself and would probably completely shut down and quit talking all together. I have witnessed children at school making fun of him and thank God he does not seem to internalize it. But again if he did he probably would not be able to tell us, as he does not know how to convey those feelings. I would not even venture to say what things Michael has endured in his life as I was not witness to it and therefore will not speculate on it. Only Michael knows what happened to him and just maybe he would like to forget it and put it behind him.
Gob Bless you all, I love you!
And that is exactly what they want, to push away the core person and have the alters surface.
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My 12 yr old son is a high functioning Autistic, meaning he is not as severe. While he has socializing problems, he does ok after he gets to know someone a little. He does love his animals, he prefers human interaction more. My son does not have a hunched over appearance at all. He is very smart in the things that interest him, like someone above said. He is a wonderful artist, and a whiz on the computer and at video games. He just has problems with the easy things. One thing is being able to express his emotions. Although he is a happy, loving and very affectionate young man. He loves everyone and says "I have only Peace, Love & Joy in my heart Mom". He is my special Angel!!
That's why I am not convinced that an Autistic child would be easy to mind control. They are in their own little world. If someone were to try that with my son he would invert into himself and would probably completely shut down and quit talking all together. I have witnessed children at school making fun of him and thank God he does not seem to internalize it. But again if he did he probably would not be able to tell us, as he does not know how to convey those feelings. I would not even venture to say what things Michael has endured in his life as I was not witness to it and therefore will not speculate on it. Only Michael knows what happened to him and just maybe he would like to forget it and put it behind him.
Gob Bless you all, I love you!
God bless your boy, and may he always have a loving mother like you to love him :D
Thank you Jude, that means a lot! Although I would not change a thing about my son, it is very heart breaking to have a child with learning difficulties. The things he has to endure from others that do not have his loving spirit, is very emotional to handle as a parent. I am just grateful he does not handle it as I do. It really breaks my heart, but also shows me how God works his miracles . My son has Autism, but God gave him the ability to over come it to a certain extent as he does not pay attention to the cruelty and still loves everyone!
Gob Bless you all, I love you!
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My 12 yr old son is a high functioning Autistic, meaning he is not as severe. While he has socializing problems, he does ok after he gets to know someone a little. He does love his animals, he prefers human interaction more. My son does not have a hunched over appearance at all. He is very smart in the things that interest him, like someone above said. He is a wonderful artist, and a whiz on the computer and at video games. He just has problems with the easy things. One thing is being able to express his emotions. Although he is a happy, loving and very affectionate young man. He loves everyone and says "I have only Peace, Love & Joy in my heart Mom". He is my special Angel!!
That's why I am not convinced that an Autistic child would be easy to mind control. They are in their own little world. If someone were to try that with my son he would invert into himself and would probably completely shut down and quit talking all together. I have witnessed children at school making fun of him and thank God he does not seem to internalize it. But again if he did he probably would not be able to tell us, as he does not know how to convey those feelings. I would not even venture to say what things Michael has endured in his life as I was not witness to it and therefore will not speculate on it. Only Michael knows what happened to him and just maybe he would like to forget it and put it behind him.
Gob Bless you all, I love you!
God bless your boy, and may he always have a loving mother like you to love him :D
Thank you Jude, that means a lot! Although I would not change a thing about my son, it is very heart breaking to have a child with learning difficulties. The things he has to endure from others that do not have his loving spirit, is very emotional to handle as a parent. I am just grateful he does not handle it as I do. It really breaks my heart, but also shows me how God works his miracles . My son has Autism, but God gave him the ability to over come it to a certain extent as he does not pay attention to the cruelty and still loves everyone!
Gob Bless you all, I love you!
God love him, and by the way I have 2 boys that could not care less about education, all they want to do is fart around on snowboard and bike and the like, I tell ya thats not easy either, watching them just throw it all away.
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I don't think Mike has Autism, but I'll continue to investagiate this drug, and any other possiblitys
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I think Michael was mindcontrolled. Uri hypnotized him.. to do a confession
Evan Chandler drugged him..to do a confession.
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I can´t believe what I am reading. Schizophrenia, autism, DID, Mind control...wow....WOW
Post-traumatic strees, leading to anxiety and this combined with seasonal depression it´s what I can "deduct" from videos and that is not even accurate, since we can´t tell when Michael was not acting. As soon as lights were on, he went on the act, he confirmed that.
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Didn't Michael sleep with the lights on as well?
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He said so. He had the lights on when going to sleep.
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I can´t believe what I am reading. Schizophrenia, autism, DID, Mind control...wow....WOW
Post-traumatic strees, leading to anxiety and this combined with seasonal depression it´s what I can "deduct" from videos and that is not even accurate, since we can´t tell when Michael was not acting. As soon as lights were on, he went on the act, he confirmed that.
Then don't read it! you are your own worst enemy Gema, sorry but it's true.
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I wouldn't be able to say for sure, either way.
It's that drug thorazine that just keeps bugging me to no end, but Michael has been said to have everything from Autism to Trauma disorder.
Kids with autism are more easy to control, they are 'good targets', so that would make sense.
From my research, he does have some symptoms of a mild form of autism called aspergers syndrom, symptoms include, intensity on things till they get it right, like Mike, relates to children and animals better then wih adults, Mike again, spend alot of time alone even tho they have family and friends, and have this hunched over apperance, like bad posture, there is more, and since its mild, each individual has different behaviours.
le through not reading the situation they are in.
Yes I am familiar with aspergers, one of my class mates had asperger. It's indeed a mild form and I remember he was very sweet. A loner, shy, had bunches of pets and was never nasty. He read a lot as well, knew everything about the subjects that mattered to him.
plus they can not read the situation they might be walking into #
they are honest and truthfull but are unable to read a situation that could be a problem to them.
sounds like somebody we know.
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I wouldn't be able to say for sure, either way.
It's that drug thorazine that just keeps bugging me to no end, but Michael has been said to have everything from Autism to Trauma disorder.
Kids with autism are more easy to control, they are 'good targets', so that would make sense.
From my research, he does have some symptoms of a mild form of autism called aspergers syndrom, symptoms include, intensity on things till they get it right, like Mike, relates to children and animals better then wih adults, Mike again, spend alot of time alone even tho they have family and friends, and have this hunched over apperance, like bad posture, there is more, and since its mild, each individual has different behaviours.
le through not reading the situation they are in.
Yes I am familiar with aspergers, one of my class mates had asperger. It's indeed a mild form and I remember he was very sweet. A loner, shy, had bunches of pets and was never nasty. He read a lot as well, knew everything about the subjects that mattered to him.
plus they can not read the situation they might be walking into #
they are honest and truthfull but are unable to read a situation that could be a problem to them.
sounds like somebody we know.
Indeed!
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I can´t believe what I am reading. Schizophrenia, autism, DID, Mind control...wow....WOW
Post-traumatic strees, leading to anxiety and this combined with seasonal depression it´s what I can "deduct" from videos and that is not even accurate, since we can´t tell when Michael was not acting. As soon as lights were on, he went on the act, he confirmed that.
Then don't read it! you are your own worst enemy Gema, sorry but it's true.
You just keep judging me, it´s hilarious :lol:
Whatever Jude, whatever.... :roll:
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I still believe that Michael is a mindcontrol victim.
This is a fragment from vanityfair
"When Salas testified that he had seen Jackson exhibit the effects of drinking "on a pretty much regular basis," Mesereau asked him, "And were you aware that there were times when he had a prescription-drug problem … and he had gotten a lot of injections from various physicians?" Mesereau was trying to suggest that Jackson's "appearing intoxicated" could actually be the result of taking medication for his health. However, Jackson checked into drug rehab when he was charged with molestation by Jordie Chandler in 1993, and I observed his bizarre performance on the stand when he was in Santa Maria in 2002 to testify in the civil trial he lost. A medical worker who treated Jackson that year told me recently that Jackson's bodyguards were worried about him, and that Jackson himself acknowledged how easy it was for him to obtain drugs from doctor friends. He said that Jackson traveled with a huge black suitcase containing an array of powerful prescription drugs, pre-loaded syringes, and IV bags and a collapsible IV pole, and that he spent whole days watching a video of Disney's Fantasia over and over again. He said Jackson's children got bored watching the film so many times, and he added that Prince Michael had several teeth rotting from eating too much candy. Jackson's drug use made it nearly impossible to fall asleep, and at one point he had to check into a nearby hospital and be given a powerful anesthetic in order to get rest. Once again, the medical worker said, Jackson's celebrity protected him. Stacy Brown told me, "In December of 2001, Janet, Tito, Rebbie, and Randy flew to New York for an intervention with him. He told them to leave him alone. He said, 'Look, I'll be dead in a year anyway.'"
source: http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/featu ... rentPage=7 (http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2005/07/orth200507?currentPage=7)
The article is not very pro-Michael , but read between the lines here.
Do you remember that Murray stated that Michael slept with the lights on and with the tv playing cartoons?
With mindcontrol they use images and sound, add some drugs to it and the world will look very different... and they can handle you they way they want to.
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/socio ... dcon02.htm (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_mindcon02.htm)
You can read more about disneyprogramming here.
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I can´t believe what I am reading. Schizophrenia, autism, DID, Mind control...wow....WOW
Post-traumatic strees, leading to anxiety and this combined with seasonal depression it´s what I can "deduct" from videos and that is not even accurate, since we can´t tell when Michael was not acting. As soon as lights were on, he went on the act, he confirmed that.
I agree with you. I see people making "on-line diagnoses" in more than one thread, that really should be made by a Genetist, a Psychiatrist or a Psycologist.
You need to be a professional, you need experience. They make their diagnoses after meet face to face the patient in a couple or more appointments, they dig deep into their life stories, they need their family's versions sometimes, they need to discuss it with other professionals, to have more than one opinion... And even after all this, you may not going to have a clear/ unique diagnose.
The only fact is that we don't know the patient, we don't know his kids and we don't know his story. You can keep speculating if you want, though...
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I still believe that Michael is a mindcontrol victim.
This is a fragment from vanityfair
"When Salas testified that he had seen Jackson exhibit the effects of drinking "on a pretty much regular basis," Mesereau asked him, "And were you aware that there were times when he had a prescription-drug problem … and he had gotten a lot of injections from various physicians?" Mesereau was trying to suggest that Jackson's "appearing intoxicated" could actually be the result of taking medication for his health. However, Jackson checked into drug rehab when he was charged with molestation by Jordie Chandler in 1993, and I observed his bizarre performance on the stand when he was in Santa Maria in 2002 to testify in the civil trial he lost. A medical worker who treated Jackson that year told me recently that Jackson's bodyguards were worried about him, and that Jackson himself acknowledged how easy it was for him to obtain drugs from doctor friends. He said that Jackson traveled with a huge black suitcase containing an array of powerful prescription drugs, pre-loaded syringes, and IV bags and a collapsible IV pole, and that he spent whole days watching a video of Disney's Fantasia over and over again. He said Jackson's children got bored watching the film so many times, and he added that Prince Michael had several teeth rotting from eating too much candy. Jackson's drug use made it nearly impossible to fall asleep, and at one point he had to check into a nearby hospital and be given a powerful anesthetic in order to get rest. Once again, the medical worker said, Jackson's celebrity protected him. Stacy Brown told me, "In December of 2001, Janet, Tito, Rebbie, and Randy flew to New York for an intervention with him. He told them to leave him alone. He said, 'Look, I'll be dead in a year anyway.'"
source: http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/featu ... rentPage=7 (http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2005/07/orth200507?currentPage=7)
The article is not very pro-Michael , but read between the lines here.
Do you remember that Murray stated that Michael slept with the lights on and with the tv playing cartoons?
With mindcontrol they use images and sound, add some drugs to it and the world will look very different... and they can handle you they way they want to.
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/socio ... dcon02.htm (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_mindcon02.htm)
You can read more about disneyprogramming here.
Oh my God- I read a horrible article a few months ago about Disney and it went into this whole step-by-step thing about the images in Fantasia and how someone will "narrate" it to program the person they're programming.. But it said that that controller needed to be there,"guiding" the victim..
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I wouldn't be able to say for sure, either way.
It's that drug thorazine that just keeps bugging me to no end, but Michael has been said to have everything from Autism to Trauma disorder.
Kids with autism are more easy to control, they are 'good targets', so that would make sense.
From my research, he does have some symptoms of a mild form of autism called aspergers syndrom, symptoms include, intensity on things till they get it right, like Mike, relates to children and animals better then wih adults, Mike again, spend alot of time alone even tho they have family and friends, and have this hunched over apperance, like bad posture, there is more, and since its mild, each individual has different behaviours.
le through not reading the situation they are in.
Yes I am familiar with aspergers, one of my class mates had asperger. It's indeed a mild form and I remember he was very sweet. A loner, shy, had bunches of pets and was never nasty. He read a lot as well, knew everything about the subjects that mattered to him.
plus they can not read the situation they might be walking into #
they are honest and truthfull but are unable to read a situation that could be a problem to them.
sounds like somebody we know.
Indeed!
Dear Lord, MJ hasn't been THAT naive in the past..!! Most of the stories like that aren't even true.. I think he's so underestimated in that way..
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I can´t believe what I am reading. Schizophrenia, autism, DID, Mind control...wow....WOW
Post-traumatic strees, leading to anxiety and this combined with seasonal depression it´s what I can "deduct" from videos and that is not even accurate, since we can´t tell when Michael was not acting. As soon as lights were on, he went on the act, he confirmed that.
I agree with you. I see people making "on-line diagnoses" in more than one thread, that really should be made by a Genetist, a Psychiatrist or a Psycologist.
You need to be a professional, you need experience. They make their diagnoses after meet face to face the patient in a couple or more appointments, they dig deep into their life stories, they need their family's versions sometimes, they need to discuss it with other professionals, to have more than one opinion... And even after all this, you may not going to have a clear/ unique diagnose.
The only fact is that we don't know the patient, we don't know his kids and we don't know his story. You can keep speculating if you want, though...
Thanks.
I take the time to also add that it takes 6 months of meetings before diagnosing anybody at the level being discussed here and this would be jointly with a clinical psychologist and a doctor in psyachtry face to face with the client and the family members. Meantime, the client is supervised with the trial and error medication untill gets stable.
Even if chlorpromazine has been discussed as a drug to treat Schizophrenia, it is also used for is also used to control nausea and vomiting, to relieve hiccups, to relieve restlessness and nervousness that may occur just before surgery, to treat acute intermittent porphyria (condition in which certain natural substances build up in the body and cause stomach pain, changes in thinking and behavior, and other symptoms).
Chlorpromazine is also used along with other medications to treat tetanus (a serious infection that may cause tightening of the muscles, especially the jaw muscle).
So, still, I don´t get where all this psychiatric "diagnoses" come from.
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http://www.scribd.com/doc/2285405/Mind-Control (http://www.scribd.com/doc/2285405/Mind-Control) they use "fantasia" for mindcontrol
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Gema and Jude, I am not going to take sides but I want the fighting to stop!
And this thread is about possibilities, not to diagnose him. This whole forum is about theories and no one is claiming to know the truth. Because it's not a fan based website, but an investigative website, these kinds of theories are allowed, as long as we keep it respectful.
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I agree Souza. But also understand that it´s not me the one going overboard with personal judgements ;)
I quote Jude
you are your own worst enemy Gema, sorry but it's true.
I can only say that you may be in denial and closed minded to the suggestion.
Comments like this are very unnecessary and unrespectful. Only proves that I am being judged out of the blue just for disagreeing with a theory.
I back up my posts whithout getting personal.
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I said both. Where two fight, both are wrong one way or another. Please stop it, because I think this thread is way too important to be locked. Just agree to disagree and ignore each other.
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i just read first few posts and the last one , if it was a medical bracelet worn for a brief time then i can safely say its for steriods which are prescribed for a very short time and taper off gradually to avoid side effects , by the way the steriods would be for discoid lupus which was said to be in remission , now does it make sense :)
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I forgot to mention medical bracelets are specially given to every patient on steriods even if they are taking for few weeks only , its a medical negligence not to give it to your patient , hopefully we end up this discussion nicely !take care you all
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Plausible for the bracelet, but that doesn't mean he couldn't suffer from DID. As far as I'm concerned the discussion can just go on...nicely.
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Thanks.
I take the time to also add that it takes 6 months of meetings before diagnosing anybody at the level being discussed here and this would be jointly with a clinical psychologist and a doctor in psyachtry face to face with the client and the family members. Meantime, the client is supervised with the trial and error medication untill gets stable.
This is gonna be very off topic, but I'm curious on why do you call "client" to the patient? Just asking :D
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@ MJ2981958
have you ever thought ;Why is it that doctors call what they do practice? ;)
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@ Souza i m not sure if he suffered Dissociative identity disorder,but i heard Dr deepak saying he had Body dysmorphic disorder,
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@ Souza i m not sure if he suffered Dissociative identity disorder,but i heard Dr deepak saying he had Body dysmorphic disorder,
I really don't know what to think about Chopra... Something about him gives me the creeps.
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Body dysmorphic disorder for those who want to read
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/body-d ... er/DS00559 (http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/body-dysmorphic-disorder/DS00559)
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Dissociative identity disorder
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/dissoc ... rs/DS00574 (http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/dissociative-disorders/DS00574)
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@ MJ2981958
did you ever thought ;Why is it that doctors call what they do practice? ;)
Hi mjj_fan! :D
Yes sure, technically they/we are clients if you think about it, but I was curious because this is the very first time I hear/read someone actually using the word "client" when referring to a patient... Know what I mean?
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@ Souza i m not sure if he suffered Dissociative identity disorder,but i heard Dr deepak saying he had Body dysmorphic disorder,
I really don't know what to think about Chopra... Something about him gives me the creeps.
I share the same creeps about Chopra.
If you have read my posts about disneyprogramming ( with Fantasia) it really makes me wonder about the plot from the movie moonwalker.
Remember the scene that the girl is getting injected and mj turns in a robot trying to save her and get killed in the end? ( but he does return..) Could the girl be another "alter" ?
The purpose of mindcontrol seems to be make people robots from flesh and blood.
Every fan likes the movie Moonwalker, but it never hit the cinema's in the usa.
• "Moonwalker" was not released in movie theatres in the United States. However, it was shown in movie theatres
in Europe and Asia. One of the reasons speculated as to why "Moonwalker" went straight to video is because of
failed financial negotiations with U.S. movie distributors for a movie theatre release.
source: http://www.blackclassicmovies.com/Movie ... alker.html (http://www.blackclassicmovies.com/Movie_Database/films/moonwalker.html)
Why? They released it on vhs.. was there already a conspiracy going on?
If i watch moonwalker with the mindcontrol in mind i do understand the story. The stalking/mobbing, the disguises, the cartoonfigures. Its actually creepy and disturbing.
The song come together at the end, does it mean come together to expose this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Come_Together (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Come_Together)
Remember the picture of mj ( come together) at the funeral.
Its some weird sh**... really really weird sh..
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Dissociative identity disorder
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/dissoc ... rs/DS00574 (http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/dissociative-disorders/DS00574)
Alternative medicine
By Mayo Clinic staff
Your therapist may recommend using hypnosis, which is sometimes referred to as hypnotherapy or hypnotic suggestion, as part of your treatment for a dissociative disorder.
Hypnosis creates a state of deep relaxation and quiets the mind. When you're hypnotized, you can concentrate intensely on a specific thought, memory, feeling or sensation while blocking out distractions. Because you're more open than usual to suggestions while under hypnosis, there is some controversy that therapists may unintentionally "implant" false memories by suggestion. However, when conducted under the care of a trained therapist, hypnosis is generally safe as a complementary treatment method.
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I believe DiLeo got fired because he didn't get the film shown in theatres in the U.S.
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Excuse me please, but why make a conspiracy out of everything?
Deepak Copra is not creepy but a world wide acknowledged medical doctor (internist and endocrinologist), scientific (quantum physics) and spiritual (hinduism, veda and bhagavad gita) advisor and best selling author whose books gained enormous popularity and have been translated in more than 25 languages.
He might be the key to most of "understanding Michael Jackson": His basic message — that love, health and happiness are possible, that mystery is real and that the universe is ultimately a friendly and benevolent place where orthodoxies old and new can meet and make peace with one another is not only one that he wants to believe in just as sincerely as his readers do, and Michael especially did so.
"Dancing the dream", mainly written by Deepak Chopra http://www.huffingtonpost.com/deepak-ch ... 21268.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/deepak-chopra/a-tribute-to-my-friend-mi_b_221268.html) was just one example (another is that many of MJ`s song lyrics are written by his son, Gotham Chopra http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gotham-ch ... 21280.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gotham-chopra/my-friend-mike_b_221280.html) ) And even more important: Deepak recommended Grace Rwaramba, who is "like a daughter to him" , as a nanny for MJ`s kids.
Sorry, but if Deepak is creepy, MJ is creepy. Or do I see a certain kind of ideology here judging him...?
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Excuse me please, but why make a conspiracy out of everything?
Deepak Copra is not creepy but a world wide acknowledged medical doctor (internist and endocrinologist), scientific (quantum physics) and spiritual (hinduism, veda and bhagavad gita) advisor and best selling author whose books gained enormous popularity and have been translated in more than 25 languages.
He might be the key to most of "understanding Michael Jackson": His basic message — that love, health and happiness are possible, that mystery is real and that the universe is ultimately a friendly and benevolent place where orthodoxies old and new can meet and make peace with one another is not only one that he wants to believe in just as sincerely as his readers do, and Michael especially did so.
"Dancing the dream", mainly written by Deepak Chopra http://www.huffingtonpost.com/deepak-ch ... 21268.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/deepak-chopra/a-tribute-to-my-friend-mi_b_221268.html) was just one example (another is that many of MJ`s song lyrics are written by his son, Gotham Chopra http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gotham-ch ... 21280.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gotham-chopra/my-friend-mike_b_221280.html) ) And even more important: Deepak recommended Grace Rwaramba, who is "like a daughter to him" , as a nanny for MJ`s kids.
Sorry, but if Deepak is creepy, MJ is creepy. Or do I see a certain kind of ideology here judging him...?
That is also what bothers me...
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Excuse me please, but why make a conspiracy out of everything?
Deepak Copra is not creepy but a world wide acknowledged medical doctor (internist and endocrinologist), scientific (quantum physics) and spiritual (hinduism, veda and bhagavad gita) advisor and best selling author whose books gained enormous popularity and have been translated in more than 25 languages.
He might be the key to most of "understanding Michael Jackson": His basic message — that love, health and happiness are possible, that mystery is real and that the universe is ultimately a friendly and benevolent place where orthodoxies old and new can meet and make peace with one another is not only one that he wants to believe in just as sincerely as his readers do, and Michael especially did so.
"Dancing the dream", mainly written by Deepak Chopra http://www.huffingtonpost.com/deepak-ch ... 21268.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/deepak-chopra/a-tribute-to-my-friend-mi_b_221268.html) was just one example (another is that many of MJ`s song lyrics are written by his son, Gotham Chopra http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gotham-ch ... 21280.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gotham-chopra/my-friend-mike_b_221280.html) ) And even more important: Deepak recommended Grace Rwaramba, who is "like a daughter to him" , as a nanny for MJ`s kids.
Sorry, but if Deepak is creepy, MJ is creepy. Or do I see a certain kind of ideology here judging him...?
That is also what bothers me...
That bothers the crap out of me also.
Something else: If Gotham Chopra was such a good friend, then what was he doing in the CNN studio being interviewed during the burial, instead of attending the burial..?
http://us.cnn.com/video/?/video/showbiz ... chopra.cnn (http://us.cnn.com/video/?/video/showbiz/2009/09/04/lkl.sanneh.chopra.cnn)
I don't recall seeing Deepak Chopra attending the burial either...
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Excuse me please, but why make a conspiracy out of everything?
Deepak Copra is not creepy but a world wide acknowledged medical doctor (internist and endocrinologist), scientific :roll: (quantum physics) and spiritual (hinduism, veda and bhagavad gita) advisor and best selling author whose books gained enormous popularity and have been translated in more than 25 languages.
He might be the key to most of "understanding Michael Jackson": His basic message — that love, health and happiness are possible, that mystery is real and that the universe is ultimately a friendly and benevolent place where orthodoxies old and new can meet and make peace with one another is not only one that he wants to believe in just as sincerely as his readers do, and Michael especially did so.
"Dancing the dream", mainly written by Deepak Chopra http://www.huffingtonpost.com/deepak-ch ... 21268.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/deepak-chopra/a-tribute-to-my-friend-mi_b_221268.html) was just one example (another is that many of MJ`s song lyrics are written by his son, Gotham Chopra http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gotham-ch ... 21280.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gotham-chopra/my-friend-mike_b_221280.html) ) And even more important: Deepak recommended Grace Rwaramba, who is "like a daughter to him" , as a nanny for MJ`s kids.
Sorry, but if Deepak is creepy, MJ is creepy. Or do I see a certain kind of ideology here judging him...?
[/color]
Doesn't this remind anyone of The Omen? :shock: I mean the guy was, in life, is stuck to MJ like a satellite, afraid he will miss something when MJ throws money around, as his son reported he'd seen him do...and now, of course, when MJ can't defend himself, all kinds of spooks come out off the woodwork to claim authorship of MJ's work!! :o Some friend, eh? :?
Chopra is creepy and tried for years to rub that creepiness off on MJ, in his sitting duck innocence. Jackson cannot be faulted for curiosity, or trusting charlatans---the Man-child was FASCINATED with magic!!! But WOE betide those who take advantage of a pure heart, or try to turn them from the Truth in that heart!! There may be a millstone with their name on it...
Anyway, it's not a judgment; it is a calculation. If it walks like a doctor and quacks like a doctor, filling MJ's head with all kinds of psychobabble, and then attempts to lay claim to intellectual property of the most loved, most prolific songwriter and thinker of the last 3 decades, at least---- all of THAT adds up to creepiness and spookiness...
I am RESERVING judgment, for later, because MJ had a nasty habit of surrounding himself with controversy by design, sometimes, so I can only roll my eyes at this one, until the truth comes from the LIVING horse's mouth... :roll: :lol: :lol:
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[youtube:22b8tcjx]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMVTKOoy1uk[/youtube:22b8tcjx] "The Omen" reminds me more of this song
...
I dont know what to think about Chopra, he did not attend the burial chooses to do a item at cnn.
Also the comic book fated ???
http://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-t ... tter-.html (http://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/international/international-book-news/article/11816-frankfurt-book-fair-at-a-slightly-smaller-fair-michael-jackson-project-draws-lots-of-chatter-.html)
weird.
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Thanks for bringing this topic up. I must admit that I am also puzzled by Michael's association with Deepak Chopra and his Gotham, both of which I knew nothing about. It is strange that they came out right away when he died and Deepak said Michael was an addict, manipulative, etc. As far as I know from this side of the pond, Deepak is a sort of New Age/quantum physics kind of doctor. He also introduced the fashion of Ayurvedic medicine to America and has been a sort of guru to many celebrities.
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Excuse me please, but why make a conspiracy out of everything?
Deepak Copra is not creepy but a world wide acknowledged medical doctor (internist and endocrinologist), scientific (quantum physics) and spiritual (hinduism, veda and bhagavad gita) advisor and best selling author whose books gained enormous popularity and have been translated in more than 25 languages.
Here's something else that bothers me about Deepak Copra, world wide acknowledged medical doctor (internist and endocrinologist), scientific (quantum physics) and spiritual (hinduism, veda and bhagavad gita) advisor and best selling author whose books gained enormous popularity and have been translated in more than 25 languages.
How many times has Mike said people were poisoning him? Wouldn't Deepak Copra, the world wide acknowledged medical doctor etcetera, who according to his own words was such a good and close friend of Mike, have recognized the symptoms..? Something ain't right here...
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Excuse me please, but why make a conspiracy out of everything?
Deepak Copra is not creepy but a world wide acknowledged medical doctor (internist and endocrinologist), scientific (quantum physics) and spiritual (hinduism, veda and bhagavad gita) advisor and best selling author whose books gained enormous popularity and have been translated in more than 25 languages.
Here's something else that bothers me about Deepak Copra, world wide acknowledged medical doctor (internist and endocrinologist), scientific (quantum physics) and spiritual (hinduism, veda and bhagavad gita) advisor and best selling author whose books gained enormous popularity and have been translated in more than 25 languages.
How many times has Mike said people were poisoning him? Wouldn't Deepak Copra, the world wide acknowledged medical doctor etcetera, who according to his own words was such a good and close friend of Mike, have recognized the symptoms..? Something ain't right here...
http://books.google.nl/books?id=PNXWmSf ... &q&f=false (http://books.google.nl/books?id=PNXWmSfdIlMC&pg=PA33&lpg=PA33&dq=chopra+mind+altering&source=bl&ots=x2G5a7PWwq&sig=4uJrdA3jNDwmJTbqubkj_3tKiII&hl=nl&ei=MFNETJqdJYilOMn7pZAN&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBcQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false)
enjoy.. its interesting.
( and im not gonna start on Uri..)
http://www.quantum-self.com/quantum-lib ... ining.html (http://www.quantum-self.com/quantum-library/mind-stretch/why-does-deepak-chopra-recommend-brainwav-training.html) :?: :?: mental re-programming ...oh really?
http://publicvigil.blogspot.com/2010/04 ... eepak.html (http://publicvigil.blogspot.com/2010/04/lady-gagas-infomercial-for-deepak.html) gaga..really?
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Excuse me please, but why make a conspiracy out of everything?
Deepak Copra is not creepy but a world wide acknowledged medical doctor (internist and endocrinologist), scientific (quantum physics) and spiritual (hinduism, veda and bhagavad gita) advisor and best selling author whose books gained enormous popularity and have been translated in more than 25 languages.
Here's something else that bothers me about Deepak Copra, world wide acknowledged medical doctor (internist and endocrinologist), scientific (quantum physics) and spiritual (hinduism, veda and bhagavad gita) advisor and best selling author whose books gained enormous popularity and have been translated in more than 25 languages.
How many times has Mike said people were poisoning him? Wouldn't Deepak Copra, the world wide acknowledged medical doctor etcetera, who according to his own words was such a good and close friend of Mike, have recognized the symptoms..? Something ain't right here...
http://books.google.nl/books?id=PNXWmSf ... &q&f=false (http://books.google.nl/books?id=PNXWmSfdIlMC&pg=PA33&lpg=PA33&dq=chopra+mind+altering&source=bl&ots=x2G5a7PWwq&sig=4uJrdA3jNDwmJTbqubkj_3tKiII&hl=nl&ei=MFNETJqdJYilOMn7pZAN&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBcQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false)
enjoy.. its interesting.
( and im not gonna start on Uri..)
http://www.quantum-self.com/quantum-lib ... ining.html (http://www.quantum-self.com/quantum-library/mind-stretch/why-does-deepak-chopra-recommend-brainwav-training.html) :?: :?: mental re-programming ...oh really?
http://publicvigil.blogspot.com/2010/04 ... eepak.html (http://publicvigil.blogspot.com/2010/04/lady-gagas-infomercial-for-deepak.html) gaga..really?
Mm, y'all are giving me the shivers here.. Ay, caramba, do you think he could have acted as a.. handler..to MJ..?
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Lady Gaga's infomercial for Deepak Chopra
WARNING: A severe overdose of Lady Gaga may cause permanent brain damage.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_PRJJxuTIeLw/S9uW5hnhBmI/AAAAAAAAAKg/nyjA5d1n2-g/s200/Lady+Gaga+Time+top+100.jpg)
Lady Gaga has appeared on Time Magazine's top 100 most influential people. In another sign that Gaga is the new Madonna, she features a bustier shooting out creamy-colored sparks. Thank you Time for this bit of tasteless pop culture. Is this what we've come to?
But even stranger than simulated electric-shock lactation is the video message from Lady Gaga praising the new age charlatan Deepak Chopra. "Dr." Chopra you may recall was a "close friend" and "advisor" to Michael Jackson. If I was Lady G. I would stay far, far away from him. You never know when some of those drugs he's prescribing might trigger some strange side-effects.
[youtube:11buslxz]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwJ3aA1nb-8[/youtube:11buslxz]
GAGA: "The most influential person in my life is Deepak Chopra. He means so much to so many people all over the world. All of the various books that he has written and his message is a true inspiration. I think about Deepak when it comes to my own work as a musician. I want so much for it to go beyond the music for my fans. "
If you've been following the comments, then you know that we'll probably be following up with more on the "guru of the stars" - Doc Chop. And yeah, don't miss the comments. That's where half the action is on Public Vigil. Thanks to "D" for alerting us to this video. Blame it on D. :)
(And the links. Don't forget to follow the links. They are there for a reason.)
To be continued...
http://publicvigil.blogspot.com/2010/04 ... eepak.html (http://publicvigil.blogspot.com/2010/04/lady-gagas-infomercial-for-deepak.html)
Thanks for the PM Glinda!
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Lady Gaga's infomercial for Deepak Chopra
WARNING: A severe overdose of Lady Gaga may cause permanent brain damage.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_PRJJxuTIeLw/S9uW5hnhBmI/AAAAAAAAAKg/nyjA5d1n2-g/s200/Lady+Gaga+Time+top+100.jpg)
Lady Gaga has appeared on Time Magazine's top 100 most influential people. In another sign that Gaga is the new Madonna, she features a bustier shooting out creamy-colored sparks. Thank you Time for this bit of tasteless pop culture. Is this what we've come to?
But even stranger than simulated electric-shock lactation is the video message from Lady Gaga praising the new age charlatan Deepak Chopra. "Dr." Chopra you may recall was a "close friend" and "advisor" to Michael Jackson. If I was Lady G. I would stay far, far away from him. You never know when some of those drugs he's prescribing might trigger some strange side-effects.
[youtube:1fjfkx9o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwJ3aA1nb-8[/youtube:1fjfkx9o]
GAGA: "The most influential person in my life is Deepak Chopra. He means so much to so many people all over the world. All of the various books that he has written and his message is a true inspiration. I think about Deepak when it comes to my own work as a musician. I want so much for it to go beyond the music for my fans. "
If you've been following the comments, then you know that we'll probably be following up with more on the "guru of the stars" - Doc Chop. And yeah, don't miss the comments. That's where half the action is on Public Vigil. Thanks to "D" for alerting us to this video. Blame it on D. :)
(And the links. Don't forget to follow the links. They are there for a reason.)
To be continued...
http://publicvigil.blogspot.com/2010/04 ... eepak.html (http://publicvigil.blogspot.com/2010/04/lady-gagas-infomercial-for-deepak.html)
Thanks for the PM Glinda!
[youtube:1fjfkx9o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C23pzvs2ERI&feature=player_embedded#![/youtube:1fjfkx9o]
http://fora.tv/2009/10/22/Deepak_Chopra ... ullprogram (http://fora.tv/2009/10/22/Deepak_Chopra_How_to_Create_a_New_Self#fullprogram)
To watch the whole thing.
He never gets sick.. ( everybody gets sick)
Personally i don't like the man to be honest.
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about the red bracelet that MJ wore all the time: Elizabeth Taylor gave the bracelet to him
"Taylor is a supporter of Kabbalah and member of the Kabbalah Centre. She encouraged long-time friend Michael Jackson to wear a red string as protection from the evil-eye during his 2005 trial for molestation, where he was eventually cleared of all charges."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Taylor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Taylor)
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Indeed,and on june 25 was "Carlo Rilley"on the memorial at Forrest Lawn,wearring the same red bracelet!SO I TELL TOU THAT MICHAEL WAS THERE TO SEE HOW MUTCH PEOPLE STILL CARE ABOUT HIM.But nowone believes my!Nobody expect somting like that and Michael can come out without fans that gets crazy.I FEEL I AM RIGHT ABOUT THIS!
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Indeed,and on june 25 was "Carlo Rilley"on the memorial at Forrest Lawn,wearring the same red bracelet!SO I TELL TOU THAT MICHAEL WAS THERE TO SEE HOW MUTCH PEOPLE STILL CARE ABOUT HIM.But nowone believes my!Nobody expect somting like that and Michael can come out without fans that gets crazy.I FEEL I AM RIGHT ABOUT THIS!
Do you have a picture of Carlo at forest lawn?
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Indeed,and on june 25 was "Carlo Rilley"on the memorial at Forrest Lawn,wearring the same red bracelet!SO I TELL TOU THAT MICHAEL WAS THERE TO SEE HOW MUTCH PEOPLE STILL CARE ABOUT HIM.But nowone believes my!Nobody expect somting like that and Michael can come out without fans that gets crazy.I FEEL I AM RIGHT ABOUT THIS!
Do you have a picture of Carlo at forest lawn?
(http://media.nola.com/tpphotos/photo/-05bde8f883a4d632_custom_665xauto.jpg)
(http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0aLF8FCffbfmC/610x.jpg)
[youtube:1qx6ku20]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_E0XednD7Jk[/youtube:1qx6ku20]
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Going back to the Chopras.
As I have learnt now, Souza and Mo, for you he is kind of suspect. And some members seem to considerate Deepak Chopra as controversal person. Okaaaayyy, I wasn`t aware of that. For myself - and the people I know - he made some very spiritual and scientific enlightening statements on overall questions of life and (human) being (maybe that is the problem - enlightening = illuminati? At your request I restrain my opinion on that but I definitely hope you are not considering any connection here.... please, come on!).
Well, ... about attending the funeral. Do we know that LKL was really live that day? I mean, think of Dave Dave ... And weren`t there only invited guests, like those the family wanted around? Who were these people anyway? Besides a few we recognized there have been a lot of people nobody has ever seen before. Relatives?
Maybe the Chopras were just not invited to attend the - private (JW?) - funeral.
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about the red bracelet that MJ wore all the time: Elizabeth Taylor gave the bracelet to him
"Taylor is a supporter of Kabbalah and member of the Kabbalah Centre. She encouraged long-time friend Michael Jackson to wear a red string as protection from the evil-eye during his 2005 trial for molestation, where he was eventually cleared of all charges."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Taylor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Taylor)
Kabbalah is also used in mindcontrol
http://www.adherents.com/people/pt/Eliz ... aylor.html (http://www.adherents.com/people/pt/Elizabeth_Taylor.html)
http://www.rense.com/general79/green.htm (http://www.rense.com/general79/green.htm)
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Off-topic, but Carlo is so darn cute! He seems young, how old is he?
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Excuse me please, but why make a conspiracy out of everything?
Deepak Copra is not creepy but a world wide acknowledged medical doctor (internist and endocrinologist), scientific (quantum physics) and spiritual (hinduism, veda and bhagavad gita) advisor and best selling author whose books gained enormous popularity and have been translated in more than 25 languages.
Here's something else that bothers me about Deepak Copra, world wide acknowledged medical doctor (internist and endocrinologist), scientific (quantum physics) and spiritual (hinduism, veda and bhagavad gita) advisor and best selling author whose books gained enormous popularity and have been translated in more than 25 languages.
How many times has Mike said people were poisoning him? Wouldn't Deepak Copra, the world wide acknowledged medical doctor etcetera, who according to his own words was such a good and close friend of Mike, have recognized the symptoms..? Something ain't right here...
THIS is what I mean :!: Chopra attached himself to MICHAEL JACKSON as if assigned to him, personally, :o in order to appear as an associate or friend, but secretly, see TO it that MJ is under the influence of SOMEthing evil, 24/7!!! That SOMEthing, being...chemicals?, mind controlling meditations? or hypnosis??...
Who BETTER than a "respected MEDICAL DOCTOR"? :P :P :roll:
MY Bible says to BEWARE of individuals whom the entire world system LOVES. If one is popular with EVERYone, offending NO one?? THAT individual is a snake, a chameleon, telling everyone what their itching ears want to hear instead of any facts or truth which would actually be beneficial.
But the main documented transgression for now, is Chopra's unethical giving out of ANYONE'S personal health information---true or not---most likely NOT :!: We need to ask WHY :twisted: would someone who was loyal to MJ do THIS???????
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if michael felt someone was poisoning him would it have nessesarily have had to mean chemically. could he have not meant emotionally and spirtually as well?
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if michael felt someone was poisoning him would it have nessesarily have had to mean chemically. could he have not meant emotionally and spirtually as well?
ABSOLUTELY! Some of the most powerful poisons are TOXIC thoughts and reprogramming. And a spook has to follow up all the time to make sure the toxicity STICKS, and the duped one's own willpower does not WAKE him up! :o
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how many of these spiritual advisors did the man go through ? they all seemed to bail or he rejected them at some point though.but as near as anyone has given any information he held fast to the bible.hmm
as far as the red braclet from liz he could wear it and the theology of it. what is that part in the bible i think it is where we get the expression when i rome do as the romans do or something. i guess it was paul talking about eating meat from a sacrifice and saying basicly that it was ok because the believers we set free from the law ect.sorry i'm not to good about knowing the number off verses ect.
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how many of these spiritual advisors did the man go through ? they all seemed to bail or he rejected them at some point though.but as near as anyone has given any information he held fast to the bible.hmm
as far as the red braclet from liz he could wear it and the theology of it. what is that part in the bible i think it is where we get the expression when i rome do as the romans do or something. i guess it was paul talking about eating meat from a sacrifice and saying basicly that it was ok because the believers we set free from the law ect.sorry i'm not to good about knowing the number off verses ect.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om8CjBgthJo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om8CjBgthJo)
The bible did help LaToya to keep the faith. She literally held the bible
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it is funny to me that no one seems to question the health of this carlo riley guy. i mean really . the footage of michael compared to this
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the causes of this has something to do with his childhood , like the cuases r things like physical, sexual,and emotional abuse. and as we all know michael suffered from physical and emotional abuse as a child :geek: :geek: :geek:
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how many of these spiritual advisors did the man go through ? they all seemed to bail or he rejected them at some point though.but as near as anyone has given any information he held fast to the bible.hmm
as far as the red braclet from liz he could wear it and the theology of it. what is that part in the bible i think it is where we get the expression when i rome do as the romans do or something. i guess it was paul talking about eating meat from a sacrifice and saying basicly that it was ok because the believers we set free from the law ect.sorry i'm not to good about knowing the number off verses ect.
Yes, The gist of the passage is not to offend someone who doesn't believe the same way you do. Specifically, even though all things were permitted to be eaten when sanctified(purified) by prayer (giving God thanks), the followers of Christ were cautioned not to eat either pork meats or meats used in pagan sacrifices in front of another brother in Christ who hadn't gotten that memo, yet. It was to prevent them from appearing to the younger brethren as if they were sinning boldly, and it was ok (because then, even though the younger ones did it too, THEY would have felt guilty, not realizing it actually WAS alright. A guilty, condemned conscience makes one hide from God. He wants us to fellowship with Him, not cower away from Him--especially over some misunderstanding over FOOD!) :)
I can't imagine MJ falling for superstition, that any inanimate object is able to protect one from anything, :o so it must have been explained to him so it made logical sense, OR he simply wore it to walk in love and not offend his friend, who gave it out of love. The greater offense would be to hurt someone's feelings, and be ungrateful for their love intent.
No object created by man has ANY supernatural power, even though some are convinced of it---but the lie surrounding those objects--objects to manipulate people and circumstances--opens a door and is forbidden in the bible---beCAUSE it "throws the game". It calls forth a rebellious spirit (Not an angel of God) to watch over the object like a sentinel. It's commonly called witchcraft, because its purpose is to do some OTHER person's will than the will of either the person to whom it is given, or God's, BY manipulation. It seems harmless, but there is a price to be paid later, for the spooks, once permitted in your situation(as they must be), have a plan for you...
If I give you an Eagle feather and just tell you it will give you an eagle's courage and command of your environment, it is STILL only a feather, which, incidentally, is no longer any good to its eagle, either! But, if you trust me and you TELL YOURSELF it must be true, putting actual faith in my words, or the idea applied to the feather paints a picture in your mind that you can RUN with, it is STILL a feather; only your beliefs have changed into something powerful enough to build courage and confidence inside you. It was there all the time, you just didn't believe it. WE are in charge of what we believe. 8-) 8-) 8-) :D
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I don't have time to browse through all the pages, so I apologize. Just wanted to ask if it's been confirmed Michael wore a medical ID bracelet. I have a bracelet that looks very similar to the one he wears and it's really just a piece of accessory.
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the causes of this has something to do with his childhood , like the cuases r things like physical, sexual,and emotional abuse. and as we all know michael suffered from physical and emotional abuse as a child :geek: :geek: :geek:
Did'nt Latoya say in her book that there was also sexual abuse going on? Or did I not read that correctly?
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the causes of this has something to do with his childhood , like the cuases r things like physical, sexual,and emotional abuse. and as we all know michael suffered from physical and emotional abuse as a child :geek: :geek: :geek:
Did'nt Latoya say in her book that there was also sexual abuse going on? Or did I not read that correctly?
Oh, dear Lord, say it isn't so!!!!!
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the causes of this has something to do with his childhood , like the cuases r things like physical, sexual,and emotional abuse. and as we all know michael suffered from physical and emotional abuse as a child :geek: :geek: :geek:
Did'nt Latoya say in her book that there was also sexual abuse going on? Or did I not read that correctly?
Oh, dear Lord, say it isn't so!!!!!
I'm sure I read that somewhere at some time, don't know where or when, but it sticks out in my mind.
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the causes of this has something to do with his childhood , like the cuases r things like physical, sexual,and emotional abuse. and as we all know michael suffered from physical and emotional abuse as a child :geek: :geek: :geek:
Did'nt Latoya say in her book that there was also sexual abuse going on? Or did I not read that correctly?
Oh, dear Lord, say it isn't so!!!!!
I'm sure I read that somewhere at some time, don't know where or when, but it sticks out in my mind.
It was Brice Taylor who wrote that in her book and as horrific as it is, I believe she is telling the truth.
Imagine after reading this how Mike felt after the strip search back in '93. Crying like a little boy, locking himself into a bathroom for hours. They photographed parts that were of no relevance at all, makes you think what else they did with him, besides humiliating him beyond belief, reminding him of his childhood abuse. Why did Sneddon never 'leak' the photos or videos just for his own satanic fun? Is there something on there that people are not supposed to know?
If the haters would read only 10% of the horror I have been reading I am sure they would lower their voice about Mike. I think he has endured things we can't even imagine and I think it was way more than beatings alone.
http://www.conspirazzi.com/?p=98 (http://www.conspirazzi.com/?p=98)
Mind Controlled Slave Brice Taylor on Michael Jackson
Michael Jackson was just a little boy of four or five when I accompanied Bob Hope to a place where they were filming up-and- coming talent for television. Bob told me he supported and sponsored the Jacksons, getting them a professional foot in the door. Their father brought the boys in and I remembered seeing them taken into a side room where bright lights were on.
They all had to drop their pants and before their performance a big man raped each one of them in a lineup. Then they were taken to a different room and dressed in little suits and sent onto the stage to perform. Due to the mind control I was under, I’m not sure exactly where we were, but feel that it was the early days of the Ed Sullivan Show. I watched as Bob, dressed in a grey pinstripe suit and bow tie, with white shoes, shook hands with Ed; and then the Jackson boys went on. They were made into a sensation and famous, on purpose, so that they could be used in the future to influence large audiences.
Bob and his connections knew that all they needed was some talent, make- up, costumes, lights, glitter and lots of publicity. He said publicity was the most important ingredient.
I was just a teenager and Bob said that he wanted me to be present so I could learn the ropes to being a “starlet.” He wanted me to see how it was done and feel comfortable around the stage. I think he just said that as a cover to other people to hide the real reason I was with him – for his and others sexual pleasure.
Bob explained to me how important clothes are to one with a public image to uphold. I had on a short, small, tight-fitting, low-cut, yellow, sheath dress. I did as I was told and wore it along with the gold high heels I was provided.
Bob was often the connection for new entertainment. The Council used his connections for their own interest and got ‘key’ entertainers in place for future use. Many were robots like me. I saw many of them get hurt. I never saw Bob get hurt though.
The Jacksons were hurt; I was witness to their abuse. That first time when they performed, Bob got them onto the show and then we left in the limo and watched from the television inside. He told the driver to drive around until the show was over. Then Bob told me, “See how easy it is to be a star?” And he laughed and pushed my head into his lap for oral sex.
I think most would agree that the inherent love that is part of Michael Jackson’s soul essence shines through for the world to see. In spite of the programming themes in some of the songs he sings, as I was recovering I often held onto the words he sang, the lyrics reminding me, “You are not alone,” when I felt so very alone.
To Michael, I extend a hand and say you also are not alone. Now there is a way out of this insanity.
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Talk shows and magazines went crazy for La Toya’s childhood stories and she was a regular face on television for quite some time. Things came to a head when La Toya accused her father of sexual abuse against her older sister live on the Donahue show in 1991.
http://www.tv.com/latoya-jackson/person ... raphy.html (http://www.tv.com/latoya-jackson/person/162213/biography.html)
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I agree Souza, I think more went on then the beatings, and the verble abuse.
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the causes of this has something to do with his childhood , like the cuases r things like physical, sexual,and emotional abuse. and as we all know michael suffered from physical and emotional abuse as a child :geek: :geek: :geek:
Did'nt Latoya say in her book that there was also sexual abuse going on? Or did I not read that correctly?
Oh, dear Lord, say it isn't so!!!!!
I'm sure I read that somewhere at some time, don't know where or when, but it sticks out in my mind.
It was Brice Taylor who wrote that in her book and as horrific as it is, I believe she is telling the truth.
Imagine after reading this how Mike felt after the strip search back in '93. Crying like a little boy, locking himself into a bathroom for hours. They photographed parts that were of no relevance at all, makes you think what else they did with him, besides humiliating him beyond belief, reminding him of his childhood abuse. Why did Sneddon never 'leak' the photos or videos just for his own satanic fun? Is there something on there that people are not supposed to know?
If the haters would read only 10% of the horror I have been reading I am sure they would lower their voice about Mike. I think he has endured things we can't even imagine and I think it was way more than beatings alone.
http://www.conspirazzi.com/?p=98 (http://www.conspirazzi.com/?p=98)
Mind Controlled Slave Brice Taylor on Michael Jackson
Michael Jackson was just a little boy of four or five when I accompanied Bob Hope to a place where they were filming up-and- coming talent for television. Bob told me he supported and sponsored the Jacksons, getting them a professional foot in the door. Their father brought the boys in and I remembered seeing them taken into a side room where bright lights were on.
They all had to drop their pants and before their performance a big man raped each one of them in a lineup. Then they were taken to a different room and dressed in little suits and sent onto the stage to perform. Due to the mind control I was under, I’m not sure exactly where we were, but feel that it was the early days of the Ed Sullivan Show. I watched as Bob, dressed in a grey pinstripe suit and bow tie, with white shoes, shook hands with Ed; and then the Jackson boys went on. They were made into a sensation and famous, on purpose, so that they could be used in the future to influence large audiences.
Bob and his connections knew that all they needed was some talent, make- up, costumes, lights, glitter and lots of publicity. He said publicity was the most important ingredient.
I was just a teenager and Bob said that he wanted me to be present so I could learn the ropes to being a “starlet.” He wanted me to see how it was done and feel comfortable around the stage. I think he just said that as a cover to other people to hide the real reason I was with him – for his and others sexual pleasure.
Bob explained to me how important clothes are to one with a public image to uphold. I had on a short, small, tight-fitting, low-cut, yellow, sheath dress. I did as I was told and wore it along with the gold high heels I was provided.
Bob was often the connection for new entertainment. The Council used his connections for their own interest and got ‘key’ entertainers in place for future use. Many were robots like me. I saw many of them get hurt. I never saw Bob get hurt though.
The Jacksons were hurt; I was witness to their abuse. That first time when they performed, Bob got them onto the show and then we left in the limo and watched from the television inside. He told the driver to drive around until the show was over. Then Bob told me, “See how easy it is to be a star?” And he laughed and pushed my head into his lap for oral sex.
I think most would agree that the inherent love that is part of Michael Jackson’s soul essence shines through for the world to see. In spite of the programming themes in some of the songs he sings, as I was recovering I often held onto the words he sang, the lyrics reminding me, “You are not alone,” when I felt so very alone.
To Michael, I extend a hand and say you also are not alone. Now there is a way out of this insanity.
Souza, may I ask why you place so much weight on what Brice Taylor says? She could have mental issues! I mean, some women claim they've been married to and had babies with Michael! Not saying mind control doesn't exist... Just suggesting that this particular story isn't necessarily true.
False memories can be created in people, and we only have this 1 account... How do we know if it's reliable or not?
I don't believe Michael endured something as horrific as sodomy, and I'm not sure about mind control either... I think he would have hinted at that in his songs/speeches/interviews, and he never did... He spoke of his lost childhood and Joe's whippings, and I imagine that had he endured something more horrific than that then Joe's whippings would have PALED in comparison... Even more so if Joe "sold" him as a sex slave! SO: Until I see some serious evidence or at least serious HINTS, I don't believe it.
There are other reasons for my being skeptical... I think the light would have gone out of Mike (his eyes & his being) much earlier had he been sexually abused as a kid - and he wouldn't have lived at home, with his parents, till age 28 or so (had Joe been responsible, in some way, for that abuse).
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the causes of this has something to do with his childhood , like the cuases r things like physical, sexual,and emotional abuse. and as we all know michael suffered from physical and emotional abuse as a child :geek: :geek: :geek:
Did'nt Latoya say in her book that there was also sexual abuse going on? Or did I not read that correctly?
Oh, dear Lord, say it isn't so!!!!!
I'm sure I read that somewhere at some time, don't know where or when, but it sticks out in my mind.
It was Brice Taylor who wrote that in her book and as horrific as it is, I believe she is telling the truth.
Imagine after reading this how Mike felt after the strip search back in '93. Crying like a little boy, locking himself into a bathroom for hours. They photographed parts that were of no relevance at all, makes you think what else they did with him, besides humiliating him beyond belief, reminding him of his childhood abuse. Why did Sneddon never 'leak' the photos or videos just for his own satanic fun? Is there something on there that people are not supposed to know?
If the haters would read only 10% of the horror I have been reading I am sure they would lower their voice about Mike. I think he has endured things we can't even imagine and I think it was way more than beatings alone.
http://www.conspirazzi.com/?p=98 (http://www.conspirazzi.com/?p=98)
Mind Controlled Slave Brice Taylor on Michael Jackson
Michael Jackson was just a little boy of four or five when I accompanied Bob Hope to a place where they were filming up-and- coming talent for television. Bob told me he supported and sponsored the Jacksons, getting them a professional foot in the door. Their father brought the boys in and I remembered seeing them taken into a side room where bright lights were on.
They all had to drop their pants and before their performance a big man raped each one of them in a lineup. Then they were taken to a different room and dressed in little suits and sent onto the stage to perform. Due to the mind control I was under, I’m not sure exactly where we were, but feel that it was the early days of the Ed Sullivan Show. I watched as Bob, dressed in a grey pinstripe suit and bow tie, with white shoes, shook hands with Ed; and then the Jackson boys went on. They were made into a sensation and famous, on purpose, so that they could be used in the future to influence large audiences.
Bob and his connections knew that all they needed was some talent, make- up, costumes, lights, glitter and lots of publicity. He said publicity was the most important ingredient.
I was just a teenager and Bob said that he wanted me to be present so I could learn the ropes to being a “starlet.” He wanted me to see how it was done and feel comfortable around the stage. I think he just said that as a cover to other people to hide the real reason I was with him – for his and others sexual pleasure.
Bob explained to me how important clothes are to one with a public image to uphold. I had on a short, small, tight-fitting, low-cut, yellow, sheath dress. I did as I was told and wore it along with the gold high heels I was provided.
Bob was often the connection for new entertainment. The Council used his connections for their own interest and got ‘key’ entertainers in place for future use. Many were robots like me. I saw many of them get hurt. I never saw Bob get hurt though.
The Jacksons were hurt; I was witness to their abuse. That first time when they performed, Bob got them onto the show and then we left in the limo and watched from the television inside. He told the driver to drive around until the show was over. Then Bob told me, “See how easy it is to be a star?” And he laughed and pushed my head into his lap for oral sex.
I think most would agree that the inherent love that is part of Michael Jackson’s soul essence shines through for the world to see. In spite of the programming themes in some of the songs he sings, as I was recovering I often held onto the words he sang, the lyrics reminding me, “You are not alone,” when I felt so very alone.
To Michael, I extend a hand and say you also are not alone. Now there is a way out of this insanity.
Souza, may I ask why you place so much weight on what Brice Taylor says? She could have mental issues! I mean, some women claim they've been married to and had babies with Michael! Not saying mind control doesn't exist... Just suggesting that this particular story isn't necessarily true.
False memories can be created in people, and we only have this 1 account... How do we know if it's reliable or not?
I don't believe Michael endured something as horrific as sodomy, and I'm not sure about mind control either... I think he would have hinted at that in his songs/speeches/interviews, and he never did... He spoke of his lost childhood and Joe's whippings, and I imagine that had he endured something more horrific than that then Joe's whippings would have PALED in comparison... Even more so if Joe "sold" him as a sex slave! SO: Until I see some serious evidence or at least serious HINTS, I don't believe it.
There are other reasons for my being skeptical... I think the light would have gone out of Mike (his eyes & his being) much earlier had he been sexually abused as a kid - and he wouldn't have lived at home, with his parents, till age 28 or so (had Joe been responsible, in some way, for that abuse).
I disagree with you and I also think Mike hinted on Mind Control lots of times. If you are interested I can send you a book about it, it will make things more clear. Sexual abuse and the MK Ultra project unfortunately go hand in hand most of the time.
You could also do a search for Cathy O'brien, another victim.
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@truthprevails
Think about the content of your forum name: truthprevails. I read quite a few books about Mind Control/MK Ultra since a few years and as horrific as it sounds I believe it to be true. So, in that sense I have to back up Souzas' words. He DID indicate mind control.
Think about school. The ONLY thing that school makes of us is nice emploEES, 'slaves to the system, ensuring the constant cycle of earnings and being legally robbed through taxes & Co. to make TPTB even more rich. BUT: are we taught to be self employed? Are we taught to see business from a business owners' perspective? No. We learn to obey by all means. We are not supposed to think for ourselves.
We are conditioned to believe only what we see and hear on a daily basis. I think this alone is the trap. We get used to a certain form of 'normal', 'not normal', 'impossible' vs 'possible', etc. because school and media teaches us THEIR definition of these words. But stripping these words to get down to core we quickly learn, that normal is not equal normal. It's a question of perception; what is normal for you isn't normal for someone else. But the truth - and I believe that is the reason you picked your wonderful name - is, that there are no versions of truth but the truth in and by itself. So, in regards to Michael possibly being a MK Ultra victim, at least make a bit room for that possibility within yourself. Because just making room within yourself will help the truth to come forward.
Like Souza said, just read f.e. Cathy O'Brians' Book "Trance-formation of America". It IS hair raising but unfortunately I do believe this exists. And due to logical reasons information like this is not taught at school, resp. is not brought into the open. Sick minds depend on a people that is busy chasing the latest home entertainment equipment, the latest fashion trends, the latest in-clubs, on a people that votes for a candidate that it has no clue whatsoever who stands and supports him/her; sick minds depend on a people that believes satanism f.e. is something that was last seen in the 17th century, when it still takes place in 2010.
Truth prevails - and the truth sometimes is not what we thought it should be. And we need to learn to accept that truth can have an ugly face. But I take the stand and say, even in the case of an ugly faced truth, THIS is something I can grow upon. Never on lies or sunny-weather-styled-disguised 'thruths'.
Big hug to all, with L.O.V.E.