The real deal...at least that's what we think

[Ninanina]

Thinking about the mugshot. Surely they must have arrested the real Michael because they'd have to take his fingerprints as well, if that isn't the real Michael how do we explain that? I do agree that the pic seems a bit odd but the eyes are exactly the same to me which is the most important thing (to me at least). About the mouth being lower, I personally think that's due to the plastic surgery he had on his nose (a pointier nose makes the distance appear bigger) and his facial expression. He looked surprised, if you know what I mean? I did the same expression in front of the mirror and it made the bottom part of my face appear longer.

Note that I'm not trying to discredit your research I'm just stating my opinion and explainig why.

"I did the same expression in front of the mirror and it made the bottom part of my face appear longer.".  You got that right alovesmichael - it made the BOTTOM PART part of your face appear longer.  I'm not talking about the bottom part, but the part as from the upper lip all the way up to the eyes.  That distance does not change due to surgery, you would have to add bone to achieve that.  It may appear differently, but when layering up two pictures taken from the same angle, they have to match.  If it's not a match, then it's not the same person.

Mo, that is absolutely not true.  The only true measurement in this case is to measure the center of the pupil to the edge of the upper teeth, that is assuming that the teeth are not dentures or have not been moved or replaced in any way.  The upper teeth are set in bone that can not move and the eyes are set into a socket that can not move.  As for the lip...there are many many things that can increase the length of it.  
-Botox injection in the upper lip can paralyze the upper lip function for up to six months, most Doctors won't do it...(anyone notice that lots of times he doesn't move his upper lip when he talks just look at him at the 30th anniversary special and that album signing...the one where he has short hair and is wearing that bright blue outfit, and look at him on the home moves special...very little upper lip movement.) and in doing that, it drops the upper lip due to loss of muscle tone.
-repeated nose surgery or facial surgery can permanently paralyze the upper lip function causing it to lose muscle tone and to lengthen and causing the upper lip to drop down and cover more of the teeth due to loss of muscle tone.
-stroke can do the same thing
-surgery to cover protruding or gummy smile.  They cut inside the lip, bring it down on the gum line and reattach, this allows the person not to show as much gums when smiling or as much teeth when not smiling.
all of the above are possibilities, as you can see in some video footage of MJ when he has the longer upper lip, he also has no movement of it which points to paralysis...permanent or not, who knows?  The fact is, there is surgery called "upper lip shortening procedure" which is for people who grow long in the upper lip due to age.  They take a slice of lip out under the nose and stitch back up.  The effect makes the person look more youthful.  I have no doubt MJ had this done at some point before O2.  
-To sum it up...you can't rely measurement on flesh.  You must match up eyes and upper teeth of the upper jaw.  These are unmovable.  (assuming person had no braces or tooth replacement, but still, even if they did, it will still give a pretty accurate measurement)
here is the home video movie...he has little movement of upper lip and it affects his speech as well.[youtube:j9ose4p0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhK1cKBut_o[/youtube:j9ose4p0]

I agree, it's possible, except you shouldn't measure from the center of the pupils - if he looks into another direction, this will mess up the comparison... I guess the inner corner of the eye would make it pretty accurate.
Also, if I smile (as in the youth pic of Michael), my upper lip moves up - not that much though.

I also think he used Botox - not only his upper lip didn't move much while speaking, also there's no forhead/eyebrows movement.
I really didn't like that.

[mykidsmum]

Thinking about the mugshot. Surely they must have arrested the real Michael because they'd have to take his fingerprints as well, if that isn't the real Michael how do we explain that? I do agree that the pic seems a bit odd but the eyes are exactly the same to me which is the most important thing (to me at least). About the mouth being lower, I personally think that's due to the plastic surgery he had on his nose (a pointier nose makes the distance appear bigger) and his facial expression. He looked surprised, if you know what I mean? I did the same expression in front of the mirror and it made the bottom part of my face appear longer.

Note that I'm not trying to discredit your research I'm just stating my opinion and explainig why.

"I did the same expression in front of the mirror and it made the bottom part of my face appear longer.".  You got that right alovesmichael - it made the BOTTOM PART part of your face appear longer.  I'm not talking about the bottom part, but the part as from the upper lip all the way up to the eyes.  That distance does not change due to surgery, you would have to add bone to achieve that.  It may appear differently, but when layering up two pictures taken from the same angle, they have to match.  If it's not a match, then it's not the same person.

Mo, that is absolutely not true.  The only true measurement in this case is to measure the center of the pupil to the edge of the upper teeth, that is assuming that the teeth are not dentures or have not been moved or replaced in any way.  The upper teeth are set in bone that can not move and the eyes are set into a socket that can not move.  As for the lip...there are many many things that can increase the length of it.  
-Botox injection in the upper lip can paralyze the upper lip function for up to six months, most Doctors won't do it...(anyone notice that lots of times he doesn't move his upper lip when he talks just look at him at the 30th anniversary special and that album signing...the one where he has short hair and is wearing that bright blue outfit, and look at him on the home moves special...very little upper lip movement.) and in doing that, it drops the upper lip due to loss of muscle tone.
-repeated nose surgery or facial surgery can permanently paralyze the upper lip function causing it to lose muscle tone and to lengthen and causing the upper lip to drop down and cover more of the teeth due to loss of muscle tone.
-stroke can do the same thing
-surgery to cover protruding or gummy smile.  They cut inside the lip, bring it down on the gum line and reattach, this allows the person not to show as much gums when smiling or as much teeth when not smiling.
all of the above are possibilities, as you can see in some video footage of MJ when he has the longer upper lip, he also has no movement of it which points to paralysis...permanent or not, who knows?  The fact is, there is surgery called "upper lip shortening procedure" which is for people who grow long in the upper lip due to age.  They take a slice of lip out under the nose and stitch back up.  The effect makes the person look more youthful.  I have no doubt MJ had this done at some point before O2.  
-To sum it up...you can't rely measurement on flesh.  You must match up eyes and upper teeth of the upper jaw.  These are unmovable.  (assuming person had no braces or tooth replacement, but still, even if they did, it will still give a pretty accurate measurement)
here is the home video movie...he has little movement of upper lip and it affects his speech as well.[youtube:2x7gdbhp]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhK1cKBut_o[/youtube:2x7gdbhp]

I agree, it's possible, except you shouldn't measure from the center of the pupils - if he looks into another direction, this will mess up the comparison... I guess the inner corner of the eye would make it pretty accurate.
Also, if I smile (as in the youth pic of Michael), my upper lip moves up - not that much though.

I also think he used Botox - not only his upper lip didn't move much while speaking, also there's no forhead/eyebrows movement.
I really didn't like that.

I meant roughly center of pupil...sorry.  I should have said the center of the eye socket. but I think yours would work too.  Most people when they smile, the upper lip moves up exposing the teeth.  MJ's did when he was younger and not so much when he was older.

[alovesmichael]

@mykidsmum

Excellent points! Just a question out of curiousity, what would be the reason for botox injections in the upper lip? I mean is it supposed to make people look younger or are there other reasons? Just thinking about why one would want the upper lip to "drop". During his 30th anniversary performances Michael covered his mouth a lot while singing, it appears as he's singing the songs live so I don't think he was trying to cover that he was miming. Some have said (read it somewhere, therefore no reliable source but still...) that he wasn't happy with his lips and therefore self-conscious about it. Perhaps cosmetic procedure wasn't the reason or it was and michael wasn't happy with the result...

[mykidsmum]

@mykidsmum

Excellent points! Just a question out of curiousity, what would be the reason for botox injections in the upper lip? I mean is it supposed to make people look younger or are there other reasons? Just thinking about why one would want the upper lip to "drop". During his 30th anniversary performances Michael covered his mouth a lot while singing, it appears as he's singing the songs live so I don't think he was trying to cover that he was miming. Some have said (read it somewhere, therefore no reliable source but still...) that he wasn't happy with his lips and therefore self-conscious about it. Perhaps cosmetic procedure wasn't the reason or it was and michael wasn't happy with the result...

well, if you look at him at that time, especially of him going in with Elizabeth taylor...his lip has no movement and it looks puffy.  Maybe he had some recent mouth work (teeth) or maybe it was a side effect not intended, but I agree, he looked very self concious.  As for botox in upper lip, to help with the little purse lines around lips and the two lines that are on either side of your mouth.  The paraylisis of the upper lip is something that may happen and that is why most docs avoid that area.  Only MJ knows what happened to make his lip stop working right.  Wish we knew.

[PinkTopaz]

This is the real deal, too, right? I absolutely love this picture, that's the real sweet deal!

[mykidsmum]

This is the real deal, too, right? I absolutely love this picture, that's the real sweet deal!

I think I have some comparisons of that shot...lemee see what I can find....

[mykidsmum]

check out how the bodies match up... Check out the creases in the one with all the belts...I love it

[PinkTopaz]

check out how the bodies match up... Check out the creases in the one with all the belts...I love it

Mm, those are sexy all right- but what creases?

[mykidsmum]

if you click on the picture of MJ, the one with 3 of them...where he's wearing the belt...you can see the whole picture and you can see how his thigh matches the O2 guy and even the crease in the pants near his...uh hem...

[britney7]

What I am about to post, I have talked about to few others, but have posted on a twitter account, only to be ridiculed, because a few people that like to mislead others and force their theories on others, whether they be right or they are wrong. The twitter account was taken down because people would rather believe a lie than see the truth.  

This thread is on the right track, as well as video someone on this forum posted about doubles and dopplegangesr or such.  However, it is nowhere as sinister as a doppleganger, if you are speaking of such an entity in a supernatural sense. There is nothing supernatural about it.

As Michael's 30th birthday approached, after devoting nearly all of his life to performing, he had decided he did not want to tour anymore, he wanted to live as normal a life as he possibly could. This was met with much disdain from his "people". The "brand" of MICHAEL JACKSON was much too lucrative for him to end it. Coupled with the fact that if he did retire at 30, he would still have been harassed and hounded by the the public, the paps the fans. So the thought came to him of using doubles, and such an idea led to a search for them. Just prior to this, Michael had begun to have some problems with anxiety and had always had a fear of flying and now it was becoming traumatic emotionally. The first effects were after his injury in the pepsi commercial.

He had also met someone that he wanted to share his life with and start a family. So this became very urgent. I could go on and on about the ins and outs of it, but to make a long story short. They found a man looking very similar to Michael,in fact, there were 3, it was a process of transititioning original Michael to the 1st double, then the 1st to the 2nd, and later on after the 2nd one caused some legal issues for our beloved, he was removed, and now lives in India.

The surgeries were made to make Michael to look more like this gentleman, and he was made to look more like Michael. And subsequently #1 into #2. Taking us further and further from the the actual face of Michael. So many surgeries to confuse the public as to what he looked like anymore. So if we saw him and he looked different, we would just assume he had had more work done.

 The craniometry and  physical anthropology of a negro skull is markedly different from that of a caucasian
skull. so a mere nose job would not be sufficient. Chin implants and cheek implants were added to try to simulate Michael's features. His hair being worn hanging in his face was meant to hide some of this. Although, if you pay careful attention and freeze his videos you will see the double playing the part of Michael does not have the facial projection.

Example:  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login    

 freeze it at 2:18 seconds.

   Here is an article as well and although it's on Wiki it will give you the differences in the facial profiles. I'm sure if you want to read more about it you will know how to take it from there.

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Then once this was in place and these gentlemen were compensated and very well I might add. Michael was free to live his life, directing from "behind the curtain" The problem arose when #2 began to actually believe he was Michael and his ego was blown out of proportion, causing many problems and was the source of Michael's legal issues. When you give a man everything on earth and he believes he is untouchable, unless he is of pure heart such as the real Michael, corruption can take over his soul, if any of you have watched the movie Dorian Gray, there are a lot of parallels. Here is the trailer:

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So this is when he (# 2 ) was sent to India. enter # 3 who after a few years discovered he was ill. He also suffered from pulmonary fibrosis, which was hinted at in the AR. The physical he had to pass for the AEG insurance was an "illusion" our real Michael took the physical. Not  #3 . # 3 's illness which was terminal and painful, began to accelerate. Murray was called in, and yes it is true he is not in the national registry of board certified physicians, this serves several purposes. Murray a man that was in desperate financial need, took the job, basically as a trade off. He would be taken care of, but he may do a few years. The operative word here is few. It was a trade off. Many have done far more for far less. Could you do a "few" years for a few million?


So that brings us to the assisted suicide, Murray set everything up for #3, left the room. As a physician, he knew well how long it would take. So he waited the length of time it took before coming back in to find # 3 in a state of demise. #3 did not "push" syringe after syringe of propofol, he would have passed out almost immediately. Here is a picture of the device Dr. Kevorkian used:

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Remember there was an IV pole in the bedroom. A condom catheter was used, and when it was applied the bladder was drained, hence the jar of urine near the bed.
All # 3 had to do was roll open the roller clamp and the propofol flowed in. Propofol was used because it is not a controlled substance. The room as you may recall was described as "swelteringly hot" this was done in order to keep the body warm so as to confuse the time of death.


Real Michael was nowhere near any of this. He was and is where he has been since the late 80s.

He does not plan to come back. He had considered it. But, much like Dorian Gray he does not want to grow old in the public eye. He wants to be remembered the way you all portray him here. Young and vibrant.

Well, I have to go now. But, I promise you he is fine. You guys can believe me or not. It doesn't make what I have told you untrue if you all wish to ridicule me, sobeit. But, I had to tell someone.

[Hopeless]

Hello Britney7,

thank you for your post....it's long and not easy for me because i don't understand it all.....but most !
It sound so logical and i have this thoughs a long time that he was alive and someone else was at his place....that was a big risk, because all this double does comes back to the name Michael Jackson....all ! He has much power to make all done.
Stop him and he tells the whole story the media....Michael was in his hands...

For me is looks rearly like one of them tries to brake all down what Michael has build up.

In one video i found from the early years Michael said in an interview that he was afraid of the fans and people...he looks very sad and uncomfortable....i believe him...

For me, who comes after the 25.June it looks clearer, because i 'm not in love  
I wondered that most of the fans used pictueres from Michael that where 15-20 years old....they loved him like he was before 20 years....the concerts must be a desillusion....because now he was a 50 year old man

it would sound so logical....even there was such a big BUT :
Why was the death not in a logical way ? No clues , no DD at Larry King ? Why all this that let us come here together ?
They know the ways how it all go...they had made a normal statement from the UCLA, one autopsie report, no clues at all...so nobody would come on the idea that it is a hoax...
Why not one single word of his death in the TII Movie ? That's not normal !
Why ?

[alovesmichael]

@ Britney7

I do not wish to ridicule you, however what are your sources for all this information?

[liegi]

Hello Britney7,
a fascinating theory!  Including the part on the assisted suicide.

[MJJ1982]

Britney7: I'm sorry but I don't believe you, everyone can come here and claim they know things for sure.

[RK]

Hi Britney7....you definitely grabbed my attention with that post.  Sorry to read the part about MJ not coming back. Makes me question why there were so many loose ends and trails left to speculate on and why not just make it clean and believable if that was his intention all along.