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mjkate

Hi Lady Medic...Thanks for taking our questions...I have 2. The first is that when I looked up information on rigor mortis it should start to set in to some degree in the first 6 hours. You thought that possibly it had already started by the way the mouth piece wasn't fitting properly. The Autopsy stated that the coroners office didn't see any sign of rigor mortis when they examined the body around 6:00 that night. Does that seem odd? The second question is about the propofol. I thought you may have an opinion on this but if not it's ok. I am still confused about why MJ would use this. Was he actually using it every single night for 8 hours or was he just using it briefly for short spurts. Either way it doesn't make sense because if the belief is that he used it to sleep most nights for the whole night...he would not be rested and therefore could not have performed. If he used it for short spurts...what was the point...it couldn't be to sleep as was claimed because it was too short to accomplish anything. Thanks so much for your time.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Quote from: "mjkate"
Hi Lady Medic...Thanks for taking our questions...I have 2. The first is that when I looked up information on rigor mortis it should start to set in to some degree in the first 6 hours. You thought that possibly it had already started by the way the mouth piece wasn't fitting properly. The Autopsy stated that the coroners office didn't see any sign of rigor mortis when they examined the body around 6:00 that night. Does that seem odd? The second question is about the propofol. I thought you may have an opinion on this but if not it's ok. I am still confused about why MJ would use this. Was he actually using it every single night for 8 hours or was he just using it briefly for short spurts. Either way it doesn't make sense because if the belief is that he used it to sleep most nights for the whole night...he would not be rested and therefore could not have performed. If he used it for short spurts...what was the point...it couldn't be to sleep as was claimed because it was too short to accomplish anything. Thanks so much for your time.
Rigor is a tough thing (no pun intended haha), and I'm surprised the internet doesn't have more or better information on it. In my experience, I've seen patients in many different times throughout the death process. From them coding in front of me to being down over a week. The first place rigor tends to set in is in the jaw. In the field, we typically discover this quickly, when we try to put in an airway adjunct. If it's not obvious then, it's typically when we go to intubate the patient that it becomes clear that jaw is not moving. The onset of rigor is most dependent on the patient's muscle usage prior to death and the environment. Typyically, it beings after 3 hours, but that's just a rule of thumb and is subjective. Now as for there being no rigor at 6:00 that evening. It's hard to say. You figure the patient was being worked (CPR) until around 2:30. That would be 3 and a half hours after pronouncing.
Now, let's look a little more into the onset and duration of rigor. Rigor is most affected by the usage of muscle just prior to death. If someone is running a marathon and collapses and dies, both the onset and duration of rigor is going to be shorter. If someone passes away in bed, the onset and duration of rigor is going to be longer.
Ultimately, I would say it's not weird to say there was no or wasn't much rigor in this case. However, if reports say (and I don't know if they do or not) there was no lividty, I would have a hard time believing that.

As for the Propofol thing, it really doesn't make much sense to me (or anyone, including most doctors for that matter). The thought I suppose is that he was also using benzos to aid in helping him sleep in addition to the Propofol. But Propofol for sleeping is bazaar. It has to be a constant dosing otherwise you'll wake up. I don't use Propofol in the field, we use Etomidate (in conjunction with benzos), and only use it to intubate someone. Both meds will just knock your right out and sedate you, but I have no idea why he would have chosen Propofol.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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CC

HEY LADYMEDIC!
HI!
I HAVE A QUESTION, I READ IN SOME PLACE THAT THE PROPOFOL NEED ANTIDOTE BUT MURRAY NEVER SAY TO THE PARAMEDIC THAT WAS PROPOFOL AND THEY NEVER GIVE HIM THE ANTIDOTE... WHAT DO YOU THINK? :roll:
IF THIS IS THE CASE THIS WAS A MURDER, DON´T YOU THINK?
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Some men see things as they are and say: WHY?
I dream things that never were and say: WHY NOT?

Quote from: "CC"
HEY LADYMEDIC!
HI!
I HAVE A QUESTION, I READ IN SOME PLACE THAT THE PROPOFOL NEED ANTIDOTE BUT MURRAY NEVER SAY TO THE PARAMEDIC THAT WAS PROPOFOL AND THEY NEVER GIVE HIM THE ANTIDOTE... WHAT DO YOU THINK? :roll:
IF THIS IS THE CASE THIS WAS A MURDER, DON´T YOU THINK?
There is no antidote for Propofol.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Hi LADYMED, I appreciate your answers. I work in the medical field, too,and I noticed from the beginning that there were some wrong assumptions made because of lack of knowledge. Thank you for taking the time and making the effort to set things right from an objective and professional point of view!
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Just found this comparison....

Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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