Law on faking one´s death

[somekindofsign]

So then is Branca who could be accused of fraud?  :lol:
Sorry if I don´t get it.

[the arabian nights]

this is interesting........and knowing micheal as we do....he would have covered all the bases wouldnt he........he is not a sloppy worker,so i feel he would have had proper advise on this..............btw a friend i had coffee with today.......who does not believe........said to me "if he faked his death dont you think that is a vile thing to do to people"...............and although i believe he is alive it is a valid question........what do you guys think i should have said...??

Well for a non believer it may be vile. For believers it isn't. We all know he had rough times and needed to fix his issue. Yes it was a big shock when his death was posted, but once you realize what this man has gone through, you forgive and wish he is doing better. The non believers, obviously will not be able to comprehend why he has faked his death. You just should have told your friend, that he hasn't done anything wrong, did not cash his insurance so he is fine.  Talking about insurance, If he did really die, why not cash the insurance?? It would have benifited the children, so that is another proof that he did not die, since he did not cash his life insurance.

wasnt there an issue about the premiums not being paid

[the arabian nights]

Yes ONJ ex husband is going to jail simply because he cashed his life insurance policy.

Michaels is yet to be touched or cashed.

TMZ said the life insurance was quietly cashed in by Branca.
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[Jackson Honchos Score $3 Mil
Posted Aug 8th 2009 1:30AM by TMZ Staff

The special administrators of Michael Jackson's estate scored a big one -- reeling in $3 million from the company that issued a life insurance policy to M.J.

John Branca (above) and John McClain quietly cashed in the policy -- reports it was worth upwards of $20 million are simply not true. It was a $3 million payout. And here's why it was a swift move -- the coroner hasn't even released the autopsy report yet.

Some life insurance companies are hinky about paying out proceeds until the cause of death is known. Remember Heath Ledger's death, when the life insurance company wouldn't promptly fork over the $10 million because Heath allegedly lied about drug use on the application?

Somehow Branca and McClain convinced the insurance company to ante up with lightening speed -- and the estate is $3 million richer for it.
]

oops -this is not good - points to mike passing - given mikes status you would have thought he would have been insure for more, but maybe the premiums lapsed

[Missyb007]

deleted

[somekindofsign]

We know it´s legal if you had 2 murder attempts... (which FBI files to be MJ´s case)
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I posted that link to show that it´s not illegal in case of murder attempts (that´s wiki any way), but there says that this person don´t know for the rest.

Look to these other that goes further and seems more reliable... it´s not illegal itself.
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So the State is not important as it seems... maybe you´re right.

There are people who states that it´s illegal, but don´t give reasons nor details, so they seem to don´t understand the question and assume that it´s done for money etc.  

[the arabian nights]

wouldnt it be a federal offence rather than state?

idk just throwing this out

what about emailing brian to find out?

[2 Bad]

Here's an article on Olivia's BF.
It seems Dateline tracked him down. From the comments not many are willing to let him be. Too much hate out there for people to leave others that they don't even know alone.
I hated reading the comments. Some had a judgement without really knowing the story. :-( I know MJ has a different story besides he is well loved but how many will be pissed and lash out, out of anger? We are more in tune to our emotions and how we feel about the entire thing. We've already analyzed our emotions and how we react. We Know LOVE conquers all. Others maybe not so much, and common sense flies away. We believers have looked at this from every angle possible, that in itself taught us tons.

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We LOVE YOU MICHAEL!!!

[mjfansince4]

this is interesting........and knowing micheal as we do....he would have covered all the bases wouldnt he........he is not a sloppy worker,so i feel he would have had proper advise on this..............btw a friend i had coffee with today.......who does not believe........said to me "if he faked his death dont you think that is a vile thing to do to people"...............and although i believe he is alive it is a valid question........what do you guys think i should have said...??

well, michael went through things we can't even begin to imagine. if he faked his death, it was for a reason. and honestly, in this day and age, there are worse things people do to one another.

[reading_on]

If a life insurance policy was cashed in, and he is not dead, that is fraud. I believe it is a federal crime. It doesn't matter whether it was just the money Michael put into it or not, it is considered fraud because an insurance company paid out based on the death.

 Not to mention, everyone that bought or did something based on his death would bankrupt him. Can you imagine every single person that bought something because of his death filing a claim, the city filing claims, etc?

[awesome1]

yea if an insurance policy was cashed in then quite simply its fraud......

but seriously $3 million ? with all the money that michael had.... youd thinkg that he had put away more than that ! and im sure he probably would have had other policies... or other money stashed away somewehere.

but i thought that they cannot pay out on a policy without a Death Cert .... or a complete one.... as the article said that the autopsy wasnt even finshed yet, so that means the death cert couldnt have been valid, and the company couldnt have paid out.

[somekindofsign]

And we don´t know if the a life insurance policy was cashed for a FACT...

[MJmakesmespeechless]

Iam sure Michael read up about this of course and knows EXACTLY what he is doing

Don't worry guys. MJ can do anything he sets his mind to!

[topsecretgirl]

Is it true that if you hoax your death but you return within one year you will not be in trouble???

[simplyme]

I have tried to find a thread about this but I can´t find one.
If there´s anyone, just delete or mergue this, please.

We´ve made and discussed this question lots of times but I don´t think we have come to a conclusive answer.

As much as I search, I find no comfirmation of being illegal to fake one´s death perse.

All the answers I find says that it only would be illegal, other illegalities that it may involve, things such as commiting fraude to get benefits, killing someone to get a body, doing it to avoid payments or jail, civil responsabilities if someone is damaged, hurt, it could bring lawsuits to pay expenses...

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We know it´s legal if you had 2 murder attempts... (which FBI files to be MJ´s case)
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

We know it would no way be illegal within a guitness program, or government program.

We know it could be illegal to sign a fake death certificate...

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

All this could explain, as we know, a big part of the hoax.

It would be wonderful to find a definitive proof of this, or come to a conclusion based on this kind of sources at least.

This is from LAW GURU ANSWERS.........................................LINKS BELOW

THIS IS MOM'S QUESTION

hello,

My question is going to sound a little crazy.

I have a 16 year old daughter and she and her friends are convinced that Michael Jackson faked his death.

I have tried to tell her that this would be illegal, but she will not believe me.

I am hoping that you can provide a legal answer that will put this to rest for her.


I would assume that if he has faked his death, that admitting a fraudulent will into probate, and his estate making money would be illegal. He has also been reported to the Social Security as deceased and his children will collect from SS.

Wouldn't his attorney and family also be in trouble for aiding the faked death?

Also the FBI and DEA are involved in this investigation, would he not be in trouble with them also?

And i would assume that it is illegal to fake your death in order to make money for your estate.

Please help me explain this to my daughter,

she said that she would believe what is answered here.

Thank you for your time,

Tired Mom

This was the attorney's answer


 What's the old saying? Mom knows best.


Tell your daughter that she's got her confirmation. Mom is right.


If he were to just walk away from everything, but not falsely report his death, it's not a crime. Sure, you have obligations (bills, child support, etc), but you're free to pick up and leave whenever and to wherever you want.


But in the case of being in on a big scheme to fake your death for financial gain? All sorts of levels of fraud come into play.


Filing a false police report, falsely reporting an emergency, insurance fraud, perjury by filing false documents with the court system, theft by trick and device - just to name a few off the top of my head.


Besides - does your daughter honestly believe that the hundreds of people that would have to be involved in this massive conspiracy are all going along with a faked death? That would mean that the doctor that called 911, the police, coroner, DA, DEA, FBI, all the family, his attorneys and countless other people are all willing to lie, risk jail time and civil lawsuits amounting to millions of dollars for Michael Jackson's estate to sell a few memorial T-shirts and increase the value of his estate? Not one of the people involved in a massive cover-up would get greedy and blow the whistle, selling their story for a million bucks to the National Enquirer?


Sorry - mom wins on this. What's at stake?

PART 2 - SHE WROTE HIM AGAIN

Hello again,

I want to thank you all for answering my question Friday regarding

Michael Jackson faking his death.

Your answers were very helpful and also made me chuckle!

My 16 yr old daughter is starting to come to her senses regarding this .


But there are still some things that she is believing in...

if you could answer a couple more questions for me,

I believe that we will be able to put this Michael Jackson thing behind us

and our family can get back to normal.


For one she thinks that because on some documents

he is listed as Michael Jackson ,

some as Michael Joe Jackson and some as Michael Joseph Jackson

that he would not be held liable for any hoax related crimes

if his legal middle name is Joe instead of Joseph..

I have tried to explain to her that all 3 names would be recognized by the court as the same person.


Also she thinks that MJ would not be held responsible

for his estate making money,

because he didn't force the fans to buy the cd's, movie tickets...etc.

Wouldn't he still be held liable for profiting from a faked death?


She lastly believes that if this isn't a hoax for a huge comeback,

which I think she is now seeing how that couldn't be possible without legal ramifications,

she believes that the government is helping MJ in the witness protection program to help expose Drug Companies,

and that if he had is life threatened twice, that it is legal to fake your death.


As you can see, the imagination of a teenage girl is very vivid,

but she is starting to see the light with your legal help.

I know that you are quite busy and this is such a silly question, so I really want to thank you for your help!


Tired Mom


His answer

 Holy cow. Your daughter would do well to devote half the time to her studies as she does to the crazy conspiracy theories.


Okay - for you, Tired Mom - I'll address the questions in order, but only if you promise me your daughter will let this go.


The name thing -


My legal name is Joseph. Only my mom, when she's mad, calls me Joseph. Everybody calls me Joe. Guess what? I'm still the same person. If "Joe" gets a speeding ticket, "Joseph" is also in trouble. I can't fight the ticket just because it says "Joe."


The civil liability for faking his death -


No, he didn't force his fans to buy CDs, but if he intentionally did something, like say, fake his death, to drive up sales, then he's falsely advertised the scarcity of his music, creating a false market for his products. He would be exposed to massive lawsuits for the profits gained by a buying frenzy now that he's dead. By the way... he IS dead.


The Government is in on it... -


Yeah. They've got him in witness protection. I'm sure he'd be a star witness in any case they ever built against anyone.


No, you may not fake your death because you've been threatened once, twice or a million times.



So - we're all agreed then? Michael Joe/Joseph Jackson is dead. R.I.P. Michael. He's not in hiding, he will NOT be holding a comeback tour and it's now time for some other obsession.


Get some rest, Mom.

LINK TO PART 1 OF WHAT I POSTED
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LINK TO PART 2
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[NYMoonwalker]

I have tried to find a thread about this but I can´t find one.
If there´s anyone, just delete or mergue this, please.

We´ve made and discussed this question lots of times but I don´t think we have come to a conclusive answer.

As much as I search, I find no comfirmation of being illegal to fake one´s death perse.

All the answers I find says that it only would be illegal, other illegalities that it may involve, things such as commiting fraude to get benefits, killing someone to get a body, doing it to avoid payments or jail, civil responsabilities if someone is damaged, hurt, it could bring lawsuits to pay expenses...

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

We know it´s legal if you had 2 murder attempts... (which FBI files to be MJ´s case)
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

We know it would no way be illegal within a guitness program, or government program.

We know it could be illegal to sign a fake death certificate...

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

All this could explain, as we know, a big part of the hoax.

It would be wonderful to find a definitive proof of this, or come to a conclusion based on this kind of sources at least.

This is from LAW GURU ANSWERS.........................................LINKS BELOW

THIS IS MOM'S QUESTION

hello,

My question is going to sound a little crazy.

I have a 16 year old daughter and she and her friends are convinced that Michael Jackson faked his death.

I have tried to tell her that this would be illegal, but she will not believe me.

I am hoping that you can provide a legal answer that will put this to rest for her.


I would assume that if he has faked his death, that admitting a fraudulent will into probate, and his estate making money would be illegal. He has also been reported to the Social Security as deceased and his children will collect from SS.

Wouldn't his attorney and family also be in trouble for aiding the faked death?

Also the FBI and DEA are involved in this investigation, would he not be in trouble with them also?

And i would assume that it is illegal to fake your death in order to make money for your estate.

Please help me explain this to my daughter,

she said that she would believe what is answered here.

Thank you for your time,

Tired Mom

This was the attorney's answer


 What's the old saying? Mom knows best.


Tell your daughter that she's got her confirmation. Mom is right.


If he were to just walk away from everything, but not falsely report his death, it's not a crime. Sure, you have obligations (bills, child support, etc), but you're free to pick up and leave whenever and to wherever you want.


But in the case of being in on a big scheme to fake your death for financial gain? All sorts of levels of fraud come into play.


Filing a false police report, falsely reporting an emergency, insurance fraud, perjury by filing false documents with the court system, theft by trick and device - just to name a few off the top of my head.


Besides - does your daughter honestly believe that the hundreds of people that would have to be involved in this massive conspiracy are all going along with a faked death? That would mean that the doctor that called 911, the police, coroner, DA, DEA, FBI, all the family, his attorneys and countless other people are all willing to lie, risk jail time and civil lawsuits amounting to millions of dollars for Michael Jackson's estate to sell a few memorial T-shirts and increase the value of his estate? Not one of the people involved in a massive cover-up would get greedy and blow the whistle, selling their story for a million bucks to the National Enquirer?


Sorry - mom wins on this. What's at stake?

PART 2 - SHE WROTE HIM AGAIN

Hello again,

I want to thank you all for answering my question Friday regarding

Michael Jackson faking his death.

Your answers were very helpful and also made me chuckle!

My 16 yr old daughter is starting to come to her senses regarding this .


But there are still some things that she is believing in...

if you could answer a couple more questions for me,

I believe that we will be able to put this Michael Jackson thing behind us

and our family can get back to normal.


For one she thinks that because on some documents

he is listed as Michael Jackson ,

some as Michael Joe Jackson and some as Michael Joseph Jackson

that he would not be held liable for any hoax related crimes

if his legal middle name is Joe instead of Joseph..

I have tried to explain to her that all 3 names would be recognized by the court as the same person.


Also she thinks that MJ would not be held responsible

for his estate making money,

because he didn't force the fans to buy the cd's, movie tickets...etc.

Wouldn't he still be held liable for profiting from a faked death?


She lastly believes that if this isn't a hoax for a huge comeback,

which I think she is now seeing how that couldn't be possible without legal ramifications,

she believes that the government is helping MJ in the witness protection program to help expose Drug Companies,

and that if he had is life threatened twice, that it is legal to fake your death.


As you can see, the imagination of a teenage girl is very vivid,

but she is starting to see the light with your legal help.

I know that you are quite busy and this is such a silly question, so I really want to thank you for your help!


Tired Mom


His answer

 Holy cow. Your daughter would do well to devote half the time to her studies as she does to the crazy conspiracy theories.


Okay - for you, Tired Mom - I'll address the questions in order, but only if you promise me your daughter will let this go.


The name thing -


My legal name is Joseph. Only my mom, when she's mad, calls me Joseph. Everybody calls me Joe. Guess what? I'm still the same person. If "Joe" gets a speeding ticket, "Joseph" is also in trouble. I can't fight the ticket just because it says "Joe."


The civil liability for faking his death -


No, he didn't force his fans to buy CDs, but if he intentionally did something, like say, fake his death, to drive up sales, then he's falsely advertised the scarcity of his music, creating a false market for his products. He would be exposed to massive lawsuits for the profits gained by a buying frenzy now that he's dead. By the way... he IS dead.


The Government is in on it... -


Yeah. They've got him in witness protection. I'm sure he'd be a star witness in any case they ever built against anyone.


No, you may not fake your death because you've been threatened once, twice or a million times.



So - we're all agreed then? Michael Joe/Joseph Jackson is dead. R.I.P. Michael. He's not in hiding, he will NOT be holding a comeback tour and it's now time for some other obsession.


Get some rest, Mom.

LINK TO PART 1 OF WHAT I POSTED
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LINK TO PART 2
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It's what I've always thought but have tried to ignore. It makes sense--there have to be negative repercussions to faking a death. It is just a bit hard to see it in writing and from a legal source. SO..even if Michael isn't truly gone, chances are we're not going to be seeing him again   . Heartbreaking. Just my opinion. Hope I'm wrong..