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Tina K.

Re: Medics triggered MJ's heartbeat at UCLA
March 28, 2010, 05:54:52 AM
OMG ! have any of you read the book " Hideaway " by Dean R. Koontz ? this book is about a man who survives drowning for about 80 min.But the main thing is, that the metode they use to bring him back is very well written in this book.Very similar to this article, exept that they cool the patient down, and then slowly heat him up again.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Michael I love you allways.

Re: Medics triggered MJ's heartbeat at UCLA
March 28, 2010, 06:29:21 AM
i love the books from dean koontz but this one i havent read yet ,i should read it you think??  :shock:
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Tina K.

Re: Medics triggered MJ's heartbeat at UCLA
March 28, 2010, 07:52:32 AM
Quote from: "ni-co-le"
i love the books from dean koontz but this one i havent read yet ,i should read it you think??  :shock:
yes, he's a great writer.... and this one is exellent. I can't believe I diden't think of this book before.... :?
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Michael I love you allways.

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RavenTopic starter

Re: Medics triggered MJ's heartbeat at UCLA
March 28, 2010, 08:05:16 AM
Quote from: "simalves"
This is from Jul 2009

When Michael Jackson went into cardiac arrest, rescuers took him to a place known for bringing the dead back to life. A world-renowned surgeon at the UCLA Medical Center has pioneered a way to revive people that most doctors would have long written off, including a woman whose heart had stopped for 2 1/2 hours.

Tested on a few dozen cardiac arrest patients, 80 percent survived. Usually, more than 80 percent perish.

“They took people who were basically dead, not all that different than Michael Jackson, and saved most of them,” said Dr. Lance Becker, an emergency medicine specialist at the University of Pennsylvania and an American Heart Association spokesman.

Could Jackson, too, have been saved?

It’s impossible to know. Doctors at the hospital worked on him for an hour. The UCLA expert, cardiothoracic surgeon Dr. Gerald Buckberg, said he was not personally involved in Jackson’s treatment, and that too little is known about what preceded it.

“We have no idea when he died versus when he was found,” Buckberg said in a telephone interview.

However, the results in other patients show that “the window is wide open to new thinking” about how long people can be successfully resuscitated after their hearts quit beating, Buckberg said. “We can salvage them way beyond the current time frames that are used. We’ve changed the concept of when the heart is dead permanently.”

They call it “the Lazarus syndrome” for the man the Bible says Jesus raised from the dead.

Let’s be clear: No one is saying that people long dead without medical attention can be revived. The lucky ones in Buckberg’s study received quick help, and the reason they suffered cardiac arrest was known and could be fixed: blocked arteries causing a heart attack, in most cases.

Buckberg’s method requires:

_Prompt CPR — rhythmic chest compressions — to maintain blood pressure until the patient gets to a hospital.

_Use of a heart-lung machine to keep blood and oxygen moving through the body while doctors remedy what caused the heart to quiver or stop in the first place, such as a drug overdose or a clogged artery.

_Special procedures and medicines to gradually restore blood and oxygen flow, so a sudden gush does not cause fresh damage.

Without all three elements, patients might suffer brain damage if they survive at all.

“You can save the heart and lose the brain,” Buckberg explained.

UCLA and hospitals in Birmingham, Ala.; Ann Arbor, Mich.; and in Germany tested Buckberg’s method on 34 patients who had been in cardiac arrest for an average of 72 minutes. All had failed resuscitation methods with standard CPR and defibrillation to try to shock their hearts back to beating.

Only seven died. Only two survivors were left with permanent neurological damage. Results were published in 2006 in the journal Resuscitation.

Dr. Constantine Athanasuleas (pronounced uh-than-uh-SOO’-lee-us), a surgeon at the University of Alabama at Birmingham, treated one man in the study who had been in cardiac arrest for about an hour and a half. The man’s wife, a nurse, did CPR until a helicopter brought him to the hospital.

“He was flatlined,” with a heart “as still as your dining room table,” Athanasuleas said.

Doctors put him on a heart-lung machine, whisked him to the catheterization lab to see if he had artery blockages, then did bypass surgery to detour around them.

“The guy went home and was neurologically perfect” at least two years later, the doctor said.

Buckberg treated a woman who had been in cardiac arrest for 2 1/2 hours.

He would not send her to the operating room until her CPR and blood pressure could be maintained so further treatment could be attempted, he said.

Sadly, the woman survived all this but died several weeks later from an infection.

Buckberg has taken his work further in experiments with pigs in cardiac arrest. He deliberately deprived their brains of blood flow for half an hour, then used his resuscitation techniques to bring them back, with normal or near-normal function. Results presented at a heart association conference last fall stunned many, including Dr. Myron Weisfeldt, a cardiologist and chairman of medicine at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine.

“He’s doing extraordinary things. You almost don’t believe the results that he got,” Weisfeldt said of Buckberg. “Most of us carry around in our head that if somebody’s brain is deprived of blood flow for 10 to 15 minutes that we’re just not going to get them back to any useful function. His data suggest it’s possible.”

Doctors in Japan, Taiwan and elsewhere in Asia have tried approaches similar to Buckberg’s with excellent results, said Becker, who is about to try it in Philadelphia.

“It takes training. It takes rethinking” to get doctors to adopt something this new, and funding for bigger studies to prove it works, Buckberg said.

Source: AP

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So why was Michael not saved??? This is what makes me think he actually did survive it.
Thank you for this article simalves. UCLA is specialised in revival techniques. Additionally, propofol has neuroprotective properties meaning it prevents brain damage (it is being used in suspended animation techniques, and even as the main substance in cryogenics because of this property). So having that as an extra, and no known clogged arteries, it is very peculiar they would not have been able to revive him.
Last Edit: March 28, 2010, 08:14:44 AM by Raven
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Re: Medics triggered MJ's heartbeat at UCLA
March 28, 2010, 08:14:32 AM
@Raven..  but dont forget Michael was exhausted and emaciated too.  He had not body fat on him, he was so thin.  He wasnt eating properly and they say he was ill with bronchitis and brain swellling too...   it wasnt just the Propofol injection that caused his demise... it was a whole load of factors leading up to it.

So if MJ was sick and weak and thin,..  once his heart had stopped i think there was minimal chance of his recovery.  His body was just too weak and he had had enough.

There was also the benzodine effect.. Michael had other drugs in his system other than the Propofol.

Maybe the people who were revived in the Lazarus method were otherwise a lot healthier than Michael was when they had their heart attacks.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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RavenTopic starter

Re: Medics triggered MJ's heartbeat at UCLA
March 28, 2010, 08:41:10 AM
Quote from: "DancingTheDream"
@Raven..  but dont forget Michael was exhausted and emaciated too.  He had not body fat on him, he was so thin.  He wasnt eating properly and they say he was ill with bronchitis and brain swellling too...   it wasnt just the Propofol injection that caused his demise... it was a whole load of factors leading up to it.

So if MJ was sick and weak and thin,..  once his heart had stopped i think there was minimal chance of his recovery.  His body was just too weak and he had had enough.

There was also the benzodine effect.. Michael had other drugs in his system other than the Propofol.

Maybe the people who were revived in the Lazarus method were otherwise a lot healthier than Michael was when they had their heart attacks.
True, but at the same time we have to keep in mind that the data from the bronchitis, brain swelling and benzodiazepine effect originate only from the autopsy report. That leaves several options:

1. The autopsy report is genuine and Michael died
2. The autopsy report was forged, possibly with the aid of Michael's medical records, so there really was bronchitis, brainswelling and benzodiazepine effect, but Michael was revived despite the odds.
3. The autopsy report was completely forged, so there was no bronchitis, brainswelling or benzodiazepine effect at all, so Michael was revived with greater odds.

I tend to lean towards option 1 or 2
Last Edit: March 28, 2010, 09:45:28 AM by Raven
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Re: Medics triggered MJ's heartbeat at UCLA
March 28, 2010, 09:10:36 AM
How can someone be dead for almost 3 hours and then have a pulse of 50 BPM? That is bullshit.  Unless they were mechanically pumping the heart and then it is irrelevant information anyway.
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May cause- Abnormal Dreams, Agitation, Amorous Behavior, Anxiety, Bucking/Jerking/Thrashing, Chills/Shivering/Clonic/Myoclonic Movement, Combativeness, Confusion, Delirium, Depression, Dizziness, Emotional Lability, Euphoria, Fatigue, Hallucinations, Headache, Hypotonia, Hysteria, Insomnia, Moaning, Neuropathy, Opisthotonos, Rigidity, Seizures, Somnolence, Tremor, Twitching.

Re: Medics triggered MJ's heartbeat at UCLA
March 28, 2010, 09:16:23 AM
Right.. can I just say ..can ANYONE imaging Michael after this??

If this did happen and he survided.. you know.. heart attack scenario... could you imagine Michael after a heart attack?
It just wouldnt happen.
He would be so fragile.

This I think is a reason I believe he is alive. and for my mixed feeling the night he "died".

the second i heard he had had a heart attack i KNEW he would "die" or.. die.
The next morning I was sure he was alive. Either it was all fake.. or he survived but would not now come back. :?
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"Call the man
Who deals in love beyond repair
He can heal the world
Of hearts in need of care
Shine a light ahead
When the next step is unclear
Call the man
He\'s needed here"

 - I never can say goodbye

Re: Medics triggered MJ's heartbeat at UCLA
March 28, 2010, 09:18:06 AM
Quote from: "Raven"
Quote from: "DancingTheDream"
@Raven..  but dont forget Michael was exhausted and emaciated too.  He had not body fat on him, he was so thin.  He wasnt eating properly and they say he was ill with bronchitis and brain swellling too...   it wasnt just the Propofol injection that caused his demise... it was a whole load of factors leading up to it.

So if MJ was sick and weak and thin,..  once his heart had stopped i think there was minimal chance of his recovery.  His body was just too weak and he had had enough.

There was also the benzodine effect.. Michael had other drugs in his system other than the Propofol.

Maybe the people who were revived in the Lazarus method were otherwise a lot healthier than Michael was when they had their heart attacks.
True, but at the same time we have to keep in mind that the data from the bronchitis, brain swelling and benzodiazepine effect originate only from the autopsy report. That leaves several options:

1. The autopsy report is genuine and Michael died
2. The autopsy report was forged, possibly with the aid of Michael's medical records, so there really was bronchitis, brainswelling and benzodiazepine effect, but Michael was revived despite the odds.
3. The autopsy report was completely forged, so there was no bronchitis, brainswelling or benzodiazepine effect at all, so Michael was revived with greated odds.

I tend to lean towards option 1 or 2

True.....

...but he passed a 5 hour medical exam?

SOMEONE is lying...
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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"Call the man
Who deals in love beyond repair
He can heal the world
Of hearts in need of care
Shine a light ahead
When the next step is unclear
Call the man
He\'s needed here"

 - I never can say goodbye

*

Datroot

Re: Medics triggered MJ's heartbeat at UCLA
March 28, 2010, 09:20:08 AM
Quote from: "XspeechlessX"
Quote from: "Raven"
Quote from: "DancingTheDream"
@Raven..  but dont forget Michael was exhausted and emaciated too.  He had not body fat on him, he was so thin.  He wasnt eating properly and they say he was ill with bronchitis and brain swellling too...   it wasnt just the Propofol injection that caused his demise... it was a whole load of factors leading up to it.

So if MJ was sick and weak and thin,..  once his heart had stopped i think there was minimal chance of his recovery.  His body was just too weak and he had had enough.

There was also the benzodine effect.. Michael had other drugs in his system other than the Propofol.

Maybe the people who were revived in the Lazarus method were otherwise a lot healthier than Michael was when they had their heart attacks.
True, but at the same time we have to keep in mind that the data from the bronchitis, brain swelling and benzodiazepine effect originate only from the autopsy report. That leaves several options:

1. The autopsy report is genuine and Michael died
2. The autopsy report was forged, possibly with the aid of Michael's medical records, so there really was bronchitis, brainswelling and benzodiazepine effect, but Michael was revived despite the odds.
3. The autopsy report was completely forged, so there was no bronchitis, brainswelling or benzodiazepine effect at all, so Michael was revived with greated odds.

I tend to lean towards option 1 or 2

True.....

...but he passed a 5 hour medical exam?

SOMEONE is lying...

If MJ had all that wrong with him, he wouldn't have attended any rehearsals at all.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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I'M A LOVER, NOT A FIGHTER

Re: Medics triggered MJ's heartbeat at UCLA
March 28, 2010, 09:24:27 AM
Quote from: "The White Rabbit"
How can someone be dead for almost 3 hours and then have a pulse of 50 BPM? That is bullshit.  Unless they were mechanically pumping the heart and then it is irrelevant information anyway.

Did any of you watch a special on CNN a few months ago with Dr Sanja Gupta. It was amazing and yes people were brought back FROM THE DEAD. They had literally been declared "dead" for hours. There was this one woman who was like 50-60 degrees (her temperature) and it took several days of warming her up and she came back to life with a heartbeat. Another was considered medically dead for quite some time too and what they did was cool the body down (putting them like a hibernation like state) and he too came back. There was several people on that episode that should have been dead and normally would have been burried however with advanced medical procedures that are being done now people can actually be brought back despite having not breathed for many hours. It was fascinating stuff. Dr. Gupta wrote a book on this as well. There is actually a VERY thin line between life and death. It is truly amazing and a little scary as well what they can do now. To think some people COULD have actually been saved many years ago. Check out his book:
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Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Speechless, Speechless, That\'s how you make me feel!!!
I Love You now and forever Michael

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alive

Re: Medics triggered MJ's heartbeat at UCLA
March 28, 2010, 09:54:01 AM
Ummm okay ....so this is not from news of the world...its from dailymail UK and 2 new things stood out to me in this....

1...MJ when intubated had GOOD breath sounds  :shock:

2...Creams came in TOOTHPASTE sized tubes.....toothpaste on his bed?  :)


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Michael Jackson was resuscitated an hour after suffering from cardiac arrest
By Mail Foreign Service


Drugged: Detectives found 11 containers of the powerful anesthetic propofol, some of them empty, at the house where Jackson died
Michael Jackson was resuscitated for ten minutes an hour after he suffered cardiac arrest, the Jacksons' lawsuit has revealed.
An excerpt from the document, published in the News of the World, states: 'At 13:21 hours or 1:21pm, the nurses and physicians at UCLA detected a weak femoral pulse and cardiac activity for Michael Jackson. At 13:22 hours he showed cardiac activity. At 13.33 he showed a weak ventricular rhythm (contracting of the lower heart chambers).

It continues: 'Dr Cooper reported that when Michael Jackson was intubated with an endotrachial tube he had good breath sounds and "The initial cardiac rhythm appeared to be wide and slow in the 40s." At 13.52 or 1.52pm he had a pulse of 53 beats per minute, with a MAE complex (major arrhythmic event).'
The 50-year-old's father Joe Jackson believes his son's death could have been prevented by his personal doctor Conrad Murray.
He said to the News of the World: 'This evidence is damning. They should lock him up and throw away the key. It's disgusting what happened here.'
The lawsuit against Murray is a catalogue of alleged decisions made by Murray which Jackson claims led to his death.
These include failing to tell paramedics he had given the singer Propofol - the anaesthetic coroners ruled led to his death.

Search warrants have also revealed large quantities of general anaesthetic and dozens of tubes of skin-whitening creams were discovered in Jackson's home after the singer's death.
Investigators went to his rented mansion on June 29 following a lengthy interview with Murray, who told them he had placed a medical bag in a cupboard in a closet.
At the home, detectives found 11 containers of Propofol, some of them empty, as well as a range of sedatives and various medical items including a box of blood pressure cuffs, according to the warrants.
Jackson's death four days earlier was ruled a homicide caused by an overdose of propofol and other sedatives. Murray has pleaded not guilty to involuntary manslaughter.
During their search, detectives found 19 tubes of hydroquinone and 18 tubes of Benoquin, both of which are commonly used in the treatment of a skin condition Jackson had called vitiligo.

The disease creates patches of de-pigmented skin, and creams can be used to lighten skin that has retained its color to give a more even appearance.
'Some people with vitiligo get to the point where there is so much of them that is pale, it makes more sense to remove the bits that are brown,' said Dr. David Sawcer, assistant professor of clinical dermatology at the University of Southern California.
Benoquin is derived from hydroquinone. Though the creams can be used at the same time, it is unusual to do so, Sawcer said.

Enlarge A massive stash of drugs and skin whitening creams were discovered in Michael Jackson's home

Jackson's body is loaded into a van to be taken to the Los Angeles County Coroner's office on June 25 last year
The medications typically come in travel-toothpaste-sized tubes and each treatment usually lasts a few months. Side effects include acute sensitivity to the sun.
'In the places they have no pigment, they are exactly like an albino,' Sawcer said.
The discovery of medical creams in Jackson's home dovetails with an odd remark Murray reportedly made soon after Jackson's death.
Dr Conrad Murray faces involuntary manslaughter charges over Jackson's death
Jackson's personal assistant, Michael Amir Williams, told detectives that in the hospital where the singer was pronounced dead, Murray told him he wanted to return to Jackson's house 'so that he could pick up some cream that Mr. Jackson has so that the world wouldn't find out about it.'
Alberto Alvarez, Jackson's logistics director, who was summoned to the stricken star's side as he was dying, told police Murray interrupted CPR on the pop star to collect drug vials.

He gave the vials and an IV line with a milky substance resembling propofol to Alvarez, according to the statement Alvarez gave police, and told him to put them in bags that were similar in description to those later found in the closet.
The skin cream was not listed as a factor in Jackson's death nor was it detected in a toxicology report.

What killed Jackson, according to the autopsy report, was an overdose of propofol, an anesthetic normally used for surgery.

Murray told police he gave it to Jackson to help him sleep, a use anesthesiology experts have said is grossly improper.
Dr. Zeev Kain, anesthesiology department chair at the University of California, Irvine Medical Centre, said he was surprised by the amount of propofol detectives found.

Among the 11 containers police said they found were three 100ml vials, which Kain said could be used as general anesthesia for several hours.
'A doctor should not use propofol at home to start with,' Kain said.
The warrants also show Murray shipped propofol and other medications to his girlfriend Nicole Alvarez's house in Santa Monica. It's unusual to send propofol to a private residence but not illegal.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Re: Medics triggered MJ's heartbeat at UCLA
March 28, 2010, 10:12:11 AM
Quote from: "VeryLittleSusie"
Guys, it doesn't matter what the whole article says. What matters is the subliminal message that is being planted in non-believer's heads:

"brought back from the dead"



But, of course, I might be wrong...  :)

So, VerylittleSusie, is it your opinion that these stories coming out about Mj might have been brought backto life, is sort of a gearing up for a BAM?  :D
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Re: Medics triggered MJ's heartbeat at UCLA
March 28, 2010, 12:34:08 PM
The ambulace arrived at 12,26 in Hollomby Hills.
Paramedics claims he was dead around 11 am.
Michael was at the UCLA at 13,21.
If Michael showed cardiac activity at 13:22 and at 13:52 he had a pulse of 53 beats per minute and at 14:05 his diastolic blood pressure (the pressure between heartbeats) went from 20 to approximately 40 at times and sometimes to 60, that`s mean he was alive 3 hours after 11 am..???? It is possible to live 3 hour after an cardiac arrest? C`mon people..something`s wrong here. Smell like HOAX !!!!
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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L.O.V.E.


Re: Medics triggered MJ's heartbeat at UCLA
March 28, 2010, 12:52:28 PM
Quote from: "VeryLittleSusie"
Guys, it doesn't matter what the whole article says. What matters is the subliminal message that is being planted in non-believer's heads:

"brought back from the dead"



But, of course, I might be wrong...  :)
No, your right. that is the keyword :mrgreen:
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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