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liegi

Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross
February 25, 2010, 03:09:53 PM
I'm from Detroit originally.  When I was doing my student teaching at Cass Tech in 1983, I met Diana Ross's English teacher!!!  He said that she was a good student, but that she was interested in music,music, music.  For her to have been at Cass Tech meant that she was a serious student (it was and still is, Detroit's premier public high school).  And she was really into her music.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross
February 25, 2010, 03:23:57 PM
Interesting... I like your breakdown of the lyrics and it might be very possible. We know Michael was hurt by Diana, have ya'll seen his facial expression at the AMA's? Heartbreaking  :(  I think it was in 1985, video's on YT. He also says it took him hell of a long time to get over Diana on the Glenda tapes (if they're real i.e.). As someone said above it might very well be about groupies but there's so much feeling (or a bit of anger even) in this song and I don't think groupies angered Michael. He seemes more like, compassionate with them, like that story about him telling a fan not to go with Jackie after a show... About the tapes, I've been in contact with MJ fans that have been researching Michael's life for almost 40 years and they say the tapes are real some of them actually own all the tapes! Of course I don't have to believe them but I see no reason to lie since I was the one approaching them. I'm not saying for sure they're real but neither can I be sure they're fake. Michael probably did not have sex at the age of 10 but he probably knew more about it than normal 10 year olds considering the life he lived (groupies around his brother, his dad, show biz etc.)

Btw I LOVE that song and when he does it live - *hyperventilating* then *faints* hot hot hot!  :lol:  :lol:
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross
February 25, 2010, 04:32:09 PM
She's says that's ok
Hey baby do what you want
I'll be your night lovin' thing
I'll be the freak you can taunt
And I don't care what you say
I want to go too far
I'll be your everything
If you make me a star
here, I don't think this is what she is saying to MJ...I think this relates to the above verse. I think this is what she is saying to the men who can get her to the top. MJ is giving us a narrative of what he has learned about her I think he is mocking her and telling her what he knows about her... The verse "i want to go to far" could mean far as in career wise...


Actually I think this may refer to Diana! Once she realised Michael became powerful, more popular than anybody else on this earth, she might have come back to him with a wish of him makig her a star! Remember the song "Muscles"? Michael wrote it for her! It was supposed to revive her solo career.... God only knows what she might have offered him for that... Hee hee...
I also thought in the past that this song might have referred to groupies, but this verse of making sb a star... Groupies don't usually want to be stars... You've opened my eyes on it... And the choice of the name Diana is significant. If it wasn't about her, if she was an "angel" - he wouldn't probably like to hurt her with these lyrics... Unless, this was a little revenge... ;)
Hmmm... Michael always wrote songs about situations from his personal life...
I'd love to have him sit and tell about each of his songs. Piece by piece, line by line...!!! :D
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross
February 25, 2010, 04:40:42 PM
The choice of that name is what triggered me to think it was about Miss Ross. He could have easily used Denise, Donna, Delilah or any other name starting with a "D". Her marriage to Arne  Naes struck a nerve with MJ. The song may have been a little revenge on his part. I am not mad at him for it either.  One dirty deed deserves another. :lol:

Quote from: "VeryLittleSusie"
She's says that's ok
Hey baby do what you want
I'll be your night lovin' thing
I'll be the freak you can taunt
And I don't care what you say
I want to go too far
I'll be your everything
If you make me a star
here, I don't think this is what she is saying to MJ...I think this relates to the above verse. I think this is what she is saying to the men who can get her to the top. MJ is giving us a narrative of what he has learned about her I think he is mocking her and telling her what he knows about her... The verse "i want to go to far" could mean far as in career wise...


Actually I think this may refer to Diana! Once she realised Michael became powerful, more popular than anybody else on this earth, she might have come back to him with a wish of him makig her a star! Remember the song "Muscles"? Michael wrote it for her! It was supposed to revive her solo career.... God only knows what she might have offered him for that... Hee hee...
I also thought in the past that this song might have referred to groupies, but this verse of making sb a star... Groupies don't usually want to be stars... You've opened my eyes on it... And the choice of the name Diana is significant. If it wasn't about her, if she was an "angel" - he wouldn't probably like to hurt her with these lyrics... Unless, this was a little revenge... ;)
Hmmm... Michael always wrote songs about situations from his personal life...
I'd love to have him sit and tell about each of his songs. Piece by piece, line by line...!!! :D
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross
February 25, 2010, 05:24:17 PM
Quote (selected)
Michael always wrote songs about situations from his personal life...
I'd love to have him sit and tell about each of his songs. Piece by piece, line by line...!!!

Oh me too! Wouldn't that just be so so lovely!  :D
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross
February 25, 2010, 06:54:42 PM
I just want to know how anyone in their right mind could break his heart like that.
I mean come on, he's such a beautiful person inside and out..
how could you turn that down?!
 :?
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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mykidsmum

  • Guest
Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross
February 25, 2010, 07:38:08 PM
since I posted this, this topic has been on my mind constantly and I have been going about my day thinking of things under this light.  This is what I came to realize...  I honestly think MJ never ever got over Diana.  I think this infatuation and love he had for her was much bigger than any of us thought or even wondered about and is quite possibly the root of all his loneliness and agony.  I red somewhere on line that MJ dedicated Remember The Time to Diana Ross.  I started there and went and listened to it again.  I felt like I was hearing the song again for the first time!  I was going to the store, riding in my car, thinking, thinking...I remembered reading on a blog little tributes MJ paid to Diana in his career.  One of them was from the video...Who Is It.  In this video when the "call girl" knocks on MJ's door, the butler tosses her all of her business cards with all her different aliases that MJ found.  One of the shots is a card with the name "Diana."  Thinking of this I listened to the song again and was astounded to realize poor MJ never ever got over Diana and even this song was about her.  Let me show you...

I Gave Her Money
i'm not sure if MJ ever gave Diana money, but he did give her a couple of songs for free, this made her some money, and also, she was his manager/producer for a while but MJ didn't like that situation and ended that, so that could be the meaning behind I gave her money.
I Gave Her Time
I Gave Her Everything
Inside One Heart Could Find
I Gave Her Passion
My Very Soul
I Gave Her Promises
And Secrets So Untold
this verse is self explanatory.  MJ said in various interviews that he shared secrets with Diana, they both shared them with each other

And She Promised Me Forever
And A Day We'd Live As One
We Made Our Vows
We'd Live A Life Anewagain, this goes back to the promise that Diana made to MJ about getting married when he turned 18.  I'm sure he promised him as a boy not really being serious, just playing with him, but I'm sure Michael took it very seriously
And She Promised Me In Secret
That She'd Love Me For All Time
it's no secret they spent lots of alone time together
It's A Promise So Untrue
Tell Me What Will I Do?

And It Doesn't Seem To Matter
And It Doesn't Seem Right
'Cause The Will Has Brought
No Fortune
Still I Cry Alone At Night
Don't You Judge Of My Composure
'Cause I'm Lying To Myself
to all of us he seems composed and no one would think this is bothering him, even to the point where he is fooling himself about how much this bothers him
And The Reason Why She Left Me
Did She Find In Someone Else?
it's no secret she married Arnie Nass...
(Who Is It?)
It Is A Friend Of Mineat one time it was Barry Gordy
(Who Is It?)
Is It My Brother!I hope she never had a fling with another Jackson!
(Who Is It?)
Somebody Hurt My Soul, Now
(Who Is It?)
I Can't Take This Stuff No More
obviously this isn't the first time Diana has put him in this situation

I Am The Damned
I Am The Dead
I Am The Agony Inside
The Dying Head
This Is Injustice
Woe Unto Thee
I Pray This Punishment
Would Have Mercy On Me

And She Promised Me Forever
That We'd Live Our Life As One
We Made Our Vows
We'd Live A Love So True
It Seems That She Has Left Me
For Such Reasons Unexplained
I Need To Find The Truth
But See What Will I Do!

And It Doesn't Seem To Matter
And It Doesn't Seem Right
'Cause The Will Has Brought
No Fortune
this line was difficult for me to decipher until it hit me...rumor has it that Diana married Arnie nass for his fortune...she was struggling at the time (it has been said) so with that in mind, I see Michael as using  the word will as representing her career...it has not brought you your fortune that you had counted on, like how some people count on wills, so you turned to desperate measures and this could be the reason Michael is looking for...it doesn't seem right...it's not right marrying someone for money, and it doesn't seem to matter....but it doesn't seem to matter to you that what you are doing isn't right. Meanwhile...
Still I Cry Alone At Night
Don't You Judge Of My Composure
'Cause I'm Bothered Everyday
And She Didn't Leave A Letter
it's been said that Diana married Arnie and Michel didn't find out until he was invited to the wedding, which he didn't go to.  People have said that he was upset that Diana never introduced him or made it a point to tell him about Arnie...she didn't even write a letter
She Just Up And Ran Away

(Who Is It?)
It Is A Friend Of Mine
(Who Is It?)
Is It My Brother?
(Who Is It?)
Somebody Hurt My Soul, Now
(Who Is It?)
I Can't Take It 'Cause I'm Lonely

(Who Is It?)
It Is Friend Of Mine
(Who Is It?)
To Me I'm Bothered
(Who Is It?)
Somebody Hurt My Soul, Now
(Who Is It?)
I Can't Take It 'Cause I'm Lonely

And It Doesn't Seem To Matter
And It Doesn't Seen Right
'Cause The Will Has Brought
No Fortune
Still I Cry Alone At Night
Don't You Judge Of My Composure
'Cause I'm Lying To Myself
And The Reason Why She Left Me
Did She Find Someone Else?

And It Doesn't Seem To Matter
And It Doesn't Seem Right
'Cause The Will Has Brought
No Fortune
Still I Cry Alone At Night
Don't You Judge Of My Composure
'Cause I'm Bothered Everyday
And She Didn't Leave A Letter
She Just Up And Ran Away

And It Doesn't Seem To Matter
And It Doesn't Seem Right
'Cause The Will Has Brought
No Fortune
Still I Cry Alone At Night
Don't You Judge Of My Composure
'Cause I'm Lying To Myself
And The Reason Why She Left Me
Did She Find Someone Else?

And It Doesn't Seem To Matter
And It Doesn't Seem Right
'Cause The Will Has Brought
No Fortune
Still I Cry Alone At Night
Don't You Judge Of My Composure
'Cause I'm Bothered Everyday
And She Didn't Leave A Letter
She Just Up And Ran Away

And It Doesn't Seem To Matter
And It Doesn't Seem Right
'Cause The Will Has Brought
No Fortune
Still I Cry Alone At Night
Don't You Judge Of My Composure
'Cause I'm Bothered Everyday
And She Didn't Leave A Letter
She Just Up And Ran Away

And It Doesn't Seem To Matter
And It Doesn't Seem Right
'Cause The Will Has Brought
No Fortune
Still I Cry Alone At Night
Don't You Judge Of My Composure
'Cause I'm Lying To Myself
And The Reason Why She Left Me
Did She Find Someone Else?
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross
February 25, 2010, 07:58:43 PM
Deep. Now you have me scratching my head and wondering about this song. Technically it could still apply to MJ ...who's heart was broken after their failed romance. For decades , I had heard that a marriage promise was made to him and that the promise would be fulfilled when he turned 18.

BTW- did you read Moonwalker and the way that MJ described his relationship with Miss Ross? Bear in mind, these are his words that are used in the book and not some 2nd or 3rd hand source. He used quite a few adjectives to describe what she was to him including the word "lover" . My best friend is a man and we love one another like brother and sister. He would not use the word "lover" to describe what I am to him.  :lol:

Quote from: "mykidsmum"
since I posted this, this topic has been on my mind constantly and I have been going about my day thinking of things under this light.  This is what I came to realize...  I honestly think MJ never ever got over Diana.  I think this infatuation and love he had for her was much bigger than any of us thought or even wondered about and is quite possibly the root of all his loneliness and agony.  I red somewhere on line that MJ dedicated Remember The Time to Diana Ross.  I started there and went and listened to it again.  I felt like I was hearing the song again for the first time!  I was going to the store, riding in my car, thinking, thinking...I remembered reading on a blog little tributes MJ paid to Diana in his career.  One of them was from the video...Who Is It.  In this video when the "call girl" knocks on MJ's door, the butler tosses her all of her business cards with all her different aliases that MJ found.  One of the shots is a card with the name "Diana."  Thinking of this I listened to the song again and was astounded to realize poor MJ never ever got over Diana and even this song was about her.  Let me show you...

I Gave Her Money
i'm not sure if MJ ever gave Diana money, but he did give her a couple of songs for free, this made her some money, and also, she was his manager/producer for a while but MJ didn't like that situation and ended that, so that could be the meaning behind I gave her money.
I Gave Her Time
I Gave Her Everything
Inside One Heart Could Find
I Gave Her Passion
My Very Soul
I Gave Her Promises
And Secrets So Untold
this verse is self explanatory.  MJ said in various interviews that he shared secrets with Diana, they both shared them with each other

And She Promised Me Forever
And A Day We'd Live As One
We Made Our Vows
We'd Live A Life Anewagain, this goes back to the promise that Diana made to MJ about getting married when he turned 18.  I'm sure he promised him as a boy not really being serious, just playing with him, but I'm sure Michael took it very seriously
And She Promised Me In Secret
That She'd Love Me For All Time
it's no secret they spent lots of alone time together
It's A Promise So Untrue
Tell Me What Will I Do?

And It Doesn't Seem To Matter
And It Doesn't Seem Right
'Cause The Will Has Brought
No Fortune
Still I Cry Alone At Night
Don't You Judge Of My Composure
'Cause I'm Lying To Myself
to all of us he seems composed and no one would think this is bothering him, even to the point where he is fooling himself about how much this bothers him
And The Reason Why She Left Me
Did She Find In Someone Else?
it's no secret she married Arnie Nass...
(Who Is It?)
It Is A Friend Of Mineat one time it was Barry Gordy
(Who Is It?)
Is It My Brother!I hope she never had a fling with another Jackson!
(Who Is It?)
Somebody Hurt My Soul, Now
(Who Is It?)
I Can't Take This Stuff No More
obviously this isn't the first time Diana has put him in this situation

I Am The Damned
I Am The Dead
I Am The Agony Inside
The Dying Head
This Is Injustice
Woe Unto Thee
I Pray This Punishment
Would Have Mercy On Me

And She Promised Me Forever
That We'd Live Our Life As One
We Made Our Vows
We'd Live A Love So True
It Seems That She Has Left Me
For Such Reasons Unexplained
I Need To Find The Truth
But See What Will I Do!

And It Doesn't Seem To Matter
And It Doesn't Seem Right
'Cause The Will Has Brought
No Fortune
this line was difficult for me to decipher until it hit me...rumor has it that Diana married Arnie nass for his fortune...she was struggling at the time (it has been said) so with that in mind, I see Michael as using  the word will as representing her career...it has not brought you your fortune that you had counted on, like how some people count on wills, so you turned to desperate measures and this could be the reason Michael is looking for...it doesn't seem right...it's not right marrying someone for money, and it doesn't seem to matter....but it doesn't seem to matter to you that what you are doing isn't right. Meanwhile...
Still I Cry Alone At Night
Don't You Judge Of My Composure
'Cause I'm Bothered Everyday
And She Didn't Leave A Letter
it's been said that Diana married Arnie and Michel didn't find out until he was invited to the wedding, which he didn't go to.  People have said that he was upset that Diana never introduced him or made it a point to tell him about Arnie...she didn't even write a letter
She Just Up And Ran Away

(Who Is It?)
It Is A Friend Of Mine
(Who Is It?)
Is It My Brother?
(Who Is It?)
Somebody Hurt My Soul, Now
(Who Is It?)
I Can't Take It 'Cause I'm Lonely

(Who Is It?)
It Is Friend Of Mine
(Who Is It?)
To Me I'm Bothered
(Who Is It?)
Somebody Hurt My Soul, Now
(Who Is It?)
I Can't Take It 'Cause I'm Lonely

And It Doesn't Seem To Matter
And It Doesn't Seen Right
'Cause The Will Has Brought
No Fortune
Still I Cry Alone At Night
Don't You Judge Of My Composure
'Cause I'm Lying To Myself
And The Reason Why She Left Me
Did She Find Someone Else?

And It Doesn't Seem To Matter
And It Doesn't Seem Right
'Cause The Will Has Brought
No Fortune
Still I Cry Alone At Night
Don't You Judge Of My Composure
'Cause I'm Bothered Everyday
And She Didn't Leave A Letter
She Just Up And Ran Away

And It Doesn't Seem To Matter
And It Doesn't Seem Right
'Cause The Will Has Brought
No Fortune
Still I Cry Alone At Night
Don't You Judge Of My Composure
'Cause I'm Lying To Myself
And The Reason Why She Left Me
Did She Find Someone Else?

And It Doesn't Seem To Matter
And It Doesn't Seem Right
'Cause The Will Has Brought
No Fortune
Still I Cry Alone At Night
Don't You Judge Of My Composure
'Cause I'm Bothered Everyday
And She Didn't Leave A Letter
She Just Up And Ran Away

And It Doesn't Seem To Matter
And It Doesn't Seem Right
'Cause The Will Has Brought
No Fortune
Still I Cry Alone At Night
Don't You Judge Of My Composure
'Cause I'm Bothered Everyday
And She Didn't Leave A Letter
She Just Up And Ran Away

And It Doesn't Seem To Matter
And It Doesn't Seem Right
'Cause The Will Has Brought
No Fortune
Still I Cry Alone At Night
Don't You Judge Of My Composure
'Cause I'm Lying To Myself
And The Reason Why She Left Me
Did She Find Someone Else?
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross
February 25, 2010, 08:11:16 PM
This makes waaaaaaay more sense then what I thought it was about! I thought it was about LMP because I never really heared it just kinda listenrd! OMG!! what if she really did sleep with a jackson! It could br jermaine since he slept around a lot! LOL JK!!!
btw I was singing who is it b4 I read ur post ! I really scare myself sometimes LOL!
thanks <3
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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mykidsmum

  • Guest
Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross
February 25, 2010, 08:14:29 PM
Quote from: "CrazyBanana"
This makes waaaaaaay more sense then what I thought it was about! I thought it was about LMP because I never really heared it just kinda listenrd! OMG!! what if she really did sleep with a jackson! It could br jermaine since he slept around a lot! LOL JK!!!
btw I was singing who is it b4 I read ur post ! I really scare myself sometimes LOL!
thanks <3
Boo!  LOL....I scare myself sometimes too!  LOL about your Jermaine comment... I love the guy I have to admit, I love them all, but what you said is true and FUNNY!  LOL  That is exactly who I thought when I heard that line!!!!  LOL! :lol:  Just wanted to add that this song was written before MJ and Lisa were a pair.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross
February 25, 2010, 08:22:57 PM
Quote from: "mykidsmum"
Quote from: "CrazyBanana"
This makes waaaaaaay more sense then what I thought it was about! I thought it was about LMP because I never really heared it just kinda listenrd! OMG!! what if she really did sleep with a jackson! It could br jermaine since he slept around a lot! LOL JK!!!
btw I was singing who is it b4 I read ur post ! I really scare myself sometimes LOL!
thanks <3
Boo!  LOL....I scare myself sometimes too!  LOL about your Jermaine comment... I love the guy I have to admit, I love them all, but what you said is true and FUNNY!  LOL  That is exactly who I thought when I heard that line!!!!  LOL! :lol:  Just wanted to add that this song was written before MJ and Lisa were a pair.
LOL im an idiot then... and I do love Jermaine ! hez my fav MJ bro.. He is very popular in the middle east so he is the only one I knew much about b4 june! and Latoya is my fav sister.. I dont know why ppl hate them.. the got character! I think theyre great!
and about Jermain! LOL I think hez past that phase ! I hope he and Halima have a great life <3
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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*

wilds

Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross
February 25, 2010, 08:41:47 PM
Quote (selected)
Thinking of this I listened to the song again and was astounded to realize poor MJ never ever got over Diana and even this song was about her.

Oh no, I had a feeling he was still in love with her but the thought of that was so sad I kinda dismissed it. I really think you've uncovered the truth about Diana and Michael. And yes it would explain why he was always saying he was so lonely - the one he loved didn't want him. This is heart breaking  :cry:
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross
February 25, 2010, 08:45:21 PM
Quote from: "GirlSaturday"
Great breakdown of the lyrics. I have always believed that Miss Ross popped his cherry. I don't think that it happened when he was a kid but when he was a young adult as they worked together on the Wiz. They filmed the movie in New York and it was the first time that he was away from the family too. There are  photos  showing them together during that time hanging out all of the time and partying together. Over the years there have been  several public appearances where Michael looked absolutely lovestruck while in her presence. He didn't look at her like she was just  a friend or big sister. There is a special way that a man looks at a woman that he loves and is intimate with.  Plus it has long been discussed how Miss Ross slept her way to the top. She probably jumped at the chance to teach  Michael Jackson,  Lucky bitch... :lol:
Bold sentence: Me too, it just makes so much sense! I agree that the way he looks at her is so intense, especially in the OTW era, they have this special sparkle.. He probably secretly feels like they belong together, sweet dear..
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross
February 25, 2010, 08:48:41 PM
Plus let's not forget who is willed to care for the children if something happens to Mrs. Jackson. Michael was apparently determined that one way or another Diana Ross would be the mother of his children.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross
February 25, 2010, 08:50:04 PM
Quote from: "GirlSaturday"
Plus let's not forget who is willed to care for the children if something happens to Mrs. Jackson. Michael was apparently determined that one way or another Diana Ross would be the mother of his children.
OMJ!! and poor naive me thinking it was because she was a mother figure to him!
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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