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Conrad Murray's legal team are struggling to compile their defense for their client, as they are still awaiting the full evidence and discovery relating to the case. One of Murray's attorney's, Michael Flanagan, even went so far as to say the D.A's office are being "a little bit secretive" with the information.You are not allowed to view links. Register or LoginSo i guess there's a lot more evidence to come yet, discounting the autopsy and affidavit which is already public. Can't wait. Murray's legal team seem worried.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: What... they are struggling with their defense??? :lol:
Well, the timeline issue has yet to be played out. However, for me, this is not the only issue that can convict Murray of criminal negligence - involuntary manslaughter. Conrad doesn't just need to be at the bedside of MJ he needs to have the right equipment with him if something goes wrong with that medication, particularly propofol! Even if Murray was there the whole time, if he hadn't got the right monitoring or rescue equipment he would not be able to help MJ in difficulty. It's worth noting that in deep sedation/anaesthesia, the airway can collapse. So it doesn't matter how hard you do mouth-to-mouth, the air ain't getting in to the lungs. Which is why you intubate. Except Murray didn't intubate. According to the Investigator's report in the autopsy report, Paramedics intubated. Another thing is in a situation like that, the person in distress needs emergency medical support - at the hospital. You wouldn't waste time doing 20 mins or so of cpr and then call 911. 911 is needed asap. There is no reversal agent for propofol.The following parameters should be monitored for all patients receiving propofol: pulse oximetry, blood pressure, and electrocardiography and heart rate. Appropriate resuscitation equipment should be readily available for airway management. It is important to note that propofol may cause vasodilation and myocardial depression independent of hypoxia and hypoventilation. While technology exists for capnography, the current literature does not support such a routine, because no change in clinical outcomes has been documented (2). You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Quote from: "DancingTheDream":lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: What... they are struggling with their defense??? :lol:sure, murray's lawyer can only get him off if he can maintain 'reasonable doubt' within the jury, so he can walk off. whatever is on that tape, he's gonna twist and turn it into murray's favor.this says it all: 'there is no information that leads to the conclusion that murray was anywhere else but at the bedside.' and there is no witness, no proof, no nothing to prove the opposite. that's even not saying anything but creating reasonable doubt within the jury. that will be their strategy and that's why they have to have the tapes, so they can prepare that step by step with the questions already in mind that are going to be asked. and the correct answers, of course. 'that's why we do rehearsals' :lol:
Quote from: "tabloidburn"Quote from: "DancingTheDream":lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: What... they are struggling with their defense??? :lol:sure, murray's lawyer can only get him off if he can maintain 'reasonable doubt' within the jury, so he can walk off. whatever is on that tape, he's gonna twist and turn it into murray's favor.this says it all: 'there is no information that leads to the conclusion that murray was anywhere else but at the bedside.' and there is no witness, no proof, no nothing to prove the opposite. that's even not saying anything but creating reasonable doubt within the jury. that will be their strategy and that's why they have to have the tapes, so they can prepare that step by step with the questions already in mind that are going to be asked. and the correct answers, of course. 'that's why we do rehearsals' :lol:i dont know about the US, you may need to google it, but it may be "beyond reasonable doubt" a higher threshold then in civil cases - but i dont know anything about the US criminal thresholds
Quote from: "the arabian nights"Quote from: "tabloidburn"Quote from: "DancingTheDream":lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: What... they are struggling with their defense??? :lol:sure, murray's lawyer can only get him off if he can maintain 'reasonable doubt' within the jury, so he can walk off. whatever is on that tape, he's gonna twist and turn it into murray's favor.this says it all: 'there is no information that leads to the conclusion that murray was anywhere else but at the bedside.' and there is no witness, no proof, no nothing to prove the opposite. that's even not saying anything but creating reasonable doubt within the jury. that will be their strategy and that's why they have to have the tapes, so they can prepare that step by step with the questions already in mind that are going to be asked. and the correct answers, of course. 'that's why we do rehearsals' :lol:i dont know about the US, you may need to google it, but it may be "beyond reasonable doubt" a higher threshold then in civil cases - but i dont know anything about the US criminal thresholdsif i'm not mistaken, the jury has to come to a unanimous decision first to have the judge come to a verdict. if there is only one saying 'not guilty' and eleven say 'guilty' they will have to rediscuss until they all come to the same conclusion. the lawyer only needs that one grain of doubt to keep murray out of jail. that part is called 'buying time', i think... i don't live in the states either but i have american family and friends (most of them look at me like i'm nuts, thinking hoax and all...). i asked if it were enough to create reasonable doubt in this case, they all said yes. it don't matter if it's high profile or what. and there is still no malpractice/ negligence charge yet, as far as i know...and not one valid proof for anything other than what murray says.
Quote from: "QuirkyDiana"Well, the timeline issue has yet to be played out. However, for me, this is not the only issue that can convict Murray of criminal negligence - involuntary manslaughter. Conrad doesn't just need to be at the bedside of MJ he needs to have the right equipment with him if something goes wrong with that medication, particularly propofol! Even if Murray was there the whole time, if he hadn't got the right monitoring or rescue equipment he would not be able to help MJ in difficulty. It's worth noting that in deep sedation/anaesthesia, the airway can collapse. So it doesn't matter how hard you do mouth-to-mouth, the air ain't getting in to the lungs. Which is why you intubate. Except Murray didn't intubate. According to the Investigator's report in the autopsy report, Paramedics intubated. Another thing is in a situation like that, the person in distress needs emergency medical support - at the hospital. You wouldn't waste time doing 20 mins or so of cpr and then call 911. 911 is needed asap. There is no reversal agent for propofol.The following parameters should be monitored for all patients receiving propofol: pulse oximetry, blood pressure, and electrocardiography and heart rate. Appropriate resuscitation equipment should be readily available for airway management. It is important to note that propofol may cause vasodilation and myocardial depression independent of hypoxia and hypoventilation. While technology exists for capnography, the current literature does not support such a routine, because no change in clinical outcomes has been documented (2). You are not allowed to view links. Register or Loginwell, i guess if they're going to say 'not guilty', it can only be proven by revealing a hoax, right? otherwise murray should get in major trouble here. and i didn't see a 'malpractice' charge yet, either, since you mention all the equipment that should have been there. if he was administering propofol regularly (like for weeks) under those circumstances, there should definitely be a malpractice charge cuz he had at least that much time to inform himself about the drug if he didn't know anything about it. a doctor has the duty of knowing exactly what he is giving his patient, why and most importantly: how to administer. klein said on tmz, that murray allegedly gave mj propofol as an im-injection, which is directly into a muscle (mostly buttocks), which is totally unthinkable, since propofol is iv only, it has to go in dripping, not as one injection. i am seriously thinking that murray cannot be that dumb. so the only solution to get him off the hook totally is really (apart from 'reasonable doubt'): nothing was administered, nobody died, the autopsy report is fake (meaning no autopsy actually happened) and all the evidence, footage, tapes, whatever, was planted to cover up the grandest hoax in history. otherwise: see you in 4 years, murray... :mrgreen:
Quote from: "tabloidburn"Quote from: "the arabian nights"Quote from: "tabloidburn"Quote from: "DancingTheDream":lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: What... they are struggling with their defense??? :lol:sure, murray's lawyer can only get him off if he can maintain 'reasonable doubt' within the jury, so he can walk off. whatever is on that tape, he's gonna twist and turn it into murray's favor.this says it all: 'there is no information that leads to the conclusion that murray was anywhere else but at the bedside.' and there is no witness, no proof, no nothing to prove the opposite. that's even not saying anything but creating reasonable doubt within the jury. that will be their strategy and that's why they have to have the tapes, so they can prepare that step by step with the questions already in mind that are going to be asked. and the correct answers, of course. 'that's why we do rehearsals' :lol:i dont know about the US, you may need to google it, but it may be "beyond reasonable doubt" a higher threshold then in civil cases - but i dont know anything about the US criminal thresholdsif i'm not mistaken, the jury has to come to a unanimous decision first to have the judge come to a verdict. if there is only one saying 'not guilty' and eleven say 'guilty' they will have to rediscuss until they all come to the same conclusion. the lawyer only needs that one grain of doubt to keep murray out of jail. that part is called 'buying time', i think... i don't live in the states either but i have american family and friends (most of them look at me like i'm nuts, thinking hoax and all...). i asked if it were enough to create reasonable doubt in this case, they all said yes. it don't matter if it's high profile or what. and there is still no malpractice/ negligence charge yet, as far as i know...and not one valid proof for anything other than what murray says.i find it strange that he has not been suspended from working until the conclusion of this criminal matter - why is this?
Quote from: "tabloidburn"Quote from: "QuirkyDiana"Well, the timeline issue has yet to be played out. However, for me, this is not the only issue that can convict Murray of criminal negligence - involuntary manslaughter. Conrad doesn't just need to be at the bedside of MJ he needs to have the right equipment with him if something goes wrong with that medication, particularly propofol! Even if Murray was there the whole time, if he hadn't got the right monitoring or rescue equipment he would not be able to help MJ in difficulty. It's worth noting that in deep sedation/anaesthesia, the airway can collapse. So it doesn't matter how hard you do mouth-to-mouth, the air ain't getting in to the lungs. Which is why you intubate. Except Murray didn't intubate. According to the Investigator's report in the autopsy report, Paramedics intubated. Another thing is in a situation like that, the person in distress needs emergency medical support - at the hospital. You wouldn't waste time doing 20 mins or so of cpr and then call 911. 911 is needed asap. There is no reversal agent for propofol.The following parameters should be monitored for all patients receiving propofol: pulse oximetry, blood pressure, and electrocardiography and heart rate. Appropriate resuscitation equipment should be readily available for airway management. It is important to note that propofol may cause vasodilation and myocardial depression independent of hypoxia and hypoventilation. While technology exists for capnography, the current literature does not support such a routine, because no change in clinical outcomes has been documented (2). You are not allowed to view links. Register or Loginwell, i guess if they're going to say 'not guilty', it can only be proven by revealing a hoax, right? otherwise murray should get in major trouble here. and i didn't see a 'malpractice' charge yet, either, since you mention all the equipment that should have been there. if he was administering propofol regularly (like for weeks) under those circumstances, there should definitely be a malpractice charge cuz he had at least that much time to inform himself about the drug if he didn't know anything about it. a doctor has the duty of knowing exactly what he is giving his patient, why and most importantly: how to administer. klein said on tmz, that murray allegedly gave mj propofol as an im-injection, which is directly into a muscle (mostly buttocks), which is totally unthinkable, since propofol is iv only, it has to go in dripping, not as one injection. i am seriously thinking that murray cannot be that dumb. so the only solution to get him off the hook totally is really (apart from 'reasonable doubt'): nothing was administered, nobody died, the autopsy report is fake (meaning no autopsy actually happened) and all the evidence, footage, tapes, whatever, was planted to cover up the grandest hoax in history. otherwise: see you in 4 years, murray... :mrgreen:MICHAEL DID SAY "WEVE ONLY GOT 4 YRS TO GET IT RIGHT" HAHAHA
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