Some General Observations

[MJsDangerousGirl]

And what about the lupus? Maybe I need to read the autopsy again, but was there any mention of his lupus?

I thought his lupus was in remission or whatever.  But still it should be on the report, you'd think?!?!

[mjj4ever777]

Great posts everyone!! The "urine" stuff just doesn't make any sense to me, but  what really gets me is all the "propofol" stuff. What I'd like to know is this... Murray said that he had given Michael 50ml of propofol every night for 6 weeks prior to this night right? So does anyone know how long he would be knocked out for with this amount being adminstered nightly? If you wake up as soon as the drug is not being administered, this would mean that Murray would have to be sitting at his bedside, for hours at a time so that Michael could stay asleep. But, if he only administered 50mls a night, how long would that keep him asleep for? It doesn't sound like very much propofol to me and if we can find out how long 50mls lasts, we might just find out that he wouldn't have gotten "enough" sleep to make it worthwhile! right? So why give it to him at all? Plus the fact that you don't feel rested with Propofol anyway, so if he wanted to be knocked out for "sleep" purposes, why not use a different anesthetic? Hope this makes sense :?  I don't buy the whole "propofol" theory at all....it smells HOAX to me!

[lisap27]

I can shed some light on the urine.

An external, or condom catheter, only captures urine as it is expelled from the body during the act of peeing-whether voluntary or not. Usually it is used for incontinence of urine.
An internal catheter is inserted into the bladder and drains urine continuously. Perhaps the filled cup near the bed was used to empty the catheter bag at one point??

However, none of this justifies that the story is true. I find it odd that a man would have the need to be catheterized for a few hours of sleep.  Something is very fishy here. It all sounds rather concocted or someone was terminal in that house.

i agree with this 100% the condom catheter stuck out to me, why would he need this, also the incontinent sheet on the bed, so basically what they are saying that once he was asleep he peed himself, REALLY COME ON!!

sounds like they had an ederly patient there or someone who was definatly ill!! thats why they didn't recognise him when they arrived!! IMO

oh i noticed no mention of lupus either!! hmmmmmmmmm  :geek:

[MJsDangerousGirl]

I love this thread!

ALSO - You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

did anyone else noticed on the report about them preparing the body for viewing?  (SEE LINK ABOVE)  How they put a wig on top of the head and put sheets over the body, only exposing the hands, then put a towel over his head, only exposing the top of his head?!?!?!  

So essentially ppl viewing the body wouldn't recognize that this wasn't MJ???  

[Michaelareuok]

Thought I'd share a few thoughts with you, please excuse any spelling errors. For those who read to the end, I'd be interested in your thoughts about the urine as the amount of urine vs the prostate medical condition seems contradictory to me. Thanks.

Synopsis of few contradictory autopsy statements and other miscellaneous observations


Clothing
Page 1.-Physical Evidence-NO
Page 3.- Body in hospital gown
Page 15. Body not clothed and no clothing available for review

Teeth
p.1-Teeth-all natural
p.13-metallic/ceramic restorations and multiple ceramic restorations of all maxillary teeth
p.24-incomplete dental records
p.32 and p.33-2 caps on teeth+2 teeth implants

Murray
911 caller stated Murray gave CPR on bed
p2.-Murray pulled patient to floor
p.2-throughout transport all medical orders were given by Murray-anyone have pics of murray in the ambulance???
p.2-paramedics found asystolic -pupils fixed and dilated

UCLA Medical Centre
p.2-Dr. Cooper pronounced death at 2:26 pm
P.1-LA Coroner assigned case at 16:15
P.1 LA Coroner arrive at UCLA at 17:20
p.1-Alexander Perez transported body to Los Angeles FSC at 18:50- 4 1/2 hours after Cooper pronounced death at 2:26 PM

Scene Evidence
P3.-closed bottle of urine at left foot of bed
p.42- 450 urine collected at the scene
p.3-opened box of catheters
p.3-external catheter present (on body,lower abdomen)

Autopsy Results
p.17-bladder contained 550 grams of clear yellow-orange urine
p.23-squamous metaplasia
p.23-Respiratory Bronchiolitis
p.23-chronic interstital pneumonitis
p.41-Benezodiazopine-Heart Blood-162 ml
p.41-Propfol-Femoral Blood test results for Propofol was 2.6 ml
p.43-Propofol-Blood test for Propofol was 3.2 ml
p.44-Propofol-Liver prpofol was 4.1 ml
p.45-Propofol-Stomach test for Propofol was .13 mg
p.47-Propofol-Urine propogol was .15ml
p.48-Propofol-Vitreous propofol was .40ml

Coroner Conclusions
P.21 Circumstances indicate that propofol....were administered by another
p.21-circumstances do not support self-administration of propofol
p.23-"it should be noted the aove lung injury with reserve loss is not to be considered a direct or contributing cause of death. However, such an individual would be susceptible to adverse health effects".
p.49 2 syringes containing Propofol, amounts .17g and .47g

My thoughts:

Teeth
p.24-incomplete dental records-This is my personal favorite in all the comments of this official autopsy because without complete dental records, there cannot be a verification to identify the body as that of Michael Jackson. Various means of forensic identification are used but dental records are a common method of verification.

Murray
WTF-make up your mind Murray, did you do CPR on the bed or floor-pick one!

UCLA
4.5 hours is a l-o-n-g time, WTH was going on?

Autopsy Results
Wow, imo, this amount of drugs is murder, not manslaughter. Oxman was right to say 'Michael' was swimming it it'.
This is beyond shocking!

Coroner Conclusions (P.21).. Circumstances indicate that propofol....were administered by another.

Terminal Respiratory Condition?
Corpse person had respiratory condition consistent with smoker. However, remember that a pack of ciggies was photographed on the bedside table-so, who was the smoker?
Whoever this person was, coroner comments suggest condition was serious, might be terminal? (p.23)

Sounds like a nice way of saying the patient would die soon:
"it should be noted the above lung injury with reserve loss is not to be considered a direct or contributing cause of death. However, such an individual would be susceptible to adverse health effects".

Wiki definition of some respiratory medical terms
p.23-squamous metaplasia-common with people who smoke-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squamous_metaplasia
p.23-Respiratory Bronchiolitis-Associated Interstitial Lung Disease-http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/466351
p.23-chronic interstital pneumonitis-patient coughs, rapid out of breath, disease is terminal- You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login ... r-int.html

Forensic Drug Reference Chart
Check out Propofol limits for toxicity levels!!!!!

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Word Puzzle

Somehow words 'trauma/gershwin' struck me as odd, see p.42-see "Trauma/Gershwin".
So I haven't investigated but discovered this interesting upload to YouTude 7 months ago about the '7 ages of Man':
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login


Urine Puzzle

Corpse person had 450 ml of urine in his bladder which is close to 2 cups of urine. Yet, Murray had attached a urine catheter which was found on the body. So, how why did the bladder fill up with 2 cups of urine if the body was catherized?
There was ALSO a capped bottled of urine found on a chair at the foot of the bed (another 550ml?).
Why was there so much urine?
If 2 cups in a bottle, 2 cups in bladder, that would be 4 cups of urine. One of the medical conditions listed was a prostate condition that I understood to have 'urine hesitancy' which contradicts the amount of urine found on scene.

Murray is lying.

Didn't Murray say he gave 'Michael' .25ml...nothing that should have killed him?

Somewhere I read that Murray too off to see a hooker, so was there someone else on site pummping the IV full of Propofol?

Fact is that this corpse person was poisoned by Propofol.

Final Thoughts

The surgery scars and tatoos along with the 'terminal' respiratory medical condition suggest to me that a terminal double was killed. I never heard Michael cough. A person with those respiratory conditions would most likely wheeze and cough.

I don't believe the autopsy was done on Michael.

I have chronic bronchitis (cant spell) and if MJ would have had it we would have known it mine flares up everytime I get a cold but normally without a cold its hard to tell I have it but when it flares constant coughing, lungs rattle, pressure on chest and I use an inhaler called Spiriva once a day with Advair for rescue and I have them around all the time because it can flare out of no where did Michael have any of these inhalers? And bronchitis isnt terminal or I would be dead long ago.

[Michaelareuok]

And how no clothing for review? He didnt arrive at the hospital in a hospital gown did he? And I doubt he slept naked since when do paramedics strip a patient naked and why the heck did MJ supposedly have a cath? I read somewhere that 400mg of propofol is what they use for surgery then 25mg would be close to nothing wouldnt it?

[mumof3]

Plus mj bedroom was a no go area I read

[mjj4ever777]

Ok, I just did some research and the closet I could find for the calculations of 50mls of propofol is that for a man who weighs 160lbs and 50mls would keep him asleep for aprox. 2hrs! So this just doesn't seem like it would be worthwhile that Michael would take this every night for 6 weeks for a mere 2 hrs sleep! Especially because when you wake up you don't feel rested! I have had propofol many times for a yearly procedure I have to have and as soon as I wake up, you are alert and feel like you have just closed your eyes and the 2 secs. later you open them! Doesn't sound like a good nights  sleep to me! Propofol= Prop of fools!!! :lol:

[KingMJ]

i agree with this 100% the condom catheter stuck out to me, why would he need this, also the incontinent sheet on the bed, so basically what they are saying that once he was asleep he peed himself, REALLY COME ON!!

When under anaesthetic, your muscles relax (Including the bladder).  Catheters are often used for this reason.  I can only go by personal experience.. my auntie was 'put under' and they catheterised her and she was always on top of soil pads.  When I asked why, they mentioned the above.   It's also one of the reasons why if you are going to have a general anaesthetic, they ask you not to drink/eat for upto 12hrs beforehand.

[MJsDangerousGirl]

I love this thread!

ALSO - You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

did anyone else noticed on the report about them preparing the body for viewing?  (SEE LINK ABOVE)  How they put a wig on top of the head and put sheets over the body, only exposing the hands, then put a towel over his head, only exposing the top of his head?!?!?!  

So essentially ppl viewing the body wouldn't recognize that this wasn't MJ???  

And... the dated it was signed - 9/9/09   :roll:

[mumof3]

Me too had it you feel like you are falling down a hole a rushing sound echo. Then you are awake not restful at all none of that nice dozing and losing your self ifeel a terminall person was there  a poor person that needed it  it seems to make sense

[MJsDangerousGirl]

I think the Prosectutions legal team needs to come here and look at everything this board has uncovered!!!  You guys are amazing.

[the arabian nights]

I can shed some light on the urine.

An external, or condom catheter, only captures urine as it is expelled from the body during the act of peeing-whether voluntary or not. Usually it is used for incontinence of urine.
An internal catheter is inserted into the bladder and drains urine continuously. Perhaps the filled cup near the bed was used to empty the catheter bag at one point??

However, none of this justifies that the story is true. I find it odd that a man would have the need to be catheterized for a few hours of sleep.  Something is very fishy here. It all sounds rather concocted or someone was terminal in that house.

i m with you here
and fantastic job white_orchid

[the arabian nights]

Plus mj bedroom was a no go area I read

but he wasn't in his bedroom that was down the hall, so what was this room of horror

[lovelidae]

Beautiful work done here. I knew with a couple of days behind us those brilliant minds would be back to work. This thread is amazing and an amazing job done by the OP. Keep up the great work guys.