Official back & Front thread

[RedPennylocks]

:icon_lol:

This is such a cute drawing Front. I love it! :th_bravo: :bearhug:

[GINAFELICIA]

:icon_lol:

I'd recognise those biceps and those collar bones anywhere!!!!

....it's Bubbles   :icon_e_wink:   :icon_lol:

 :icon_cool:

hahahahahahhh!!!

[GINAFELICIA]

From Souza

If they love the man, their love would be unconditional because it would mean they know him and accept him even if he has flaws, but they are actually saying he can't have flaws.

I liked it how you sayed that. He can't have flaws?? Oh yes he is FREE to have flaws. Feel free to have flaws Michael.
But I am afraid at some point he imposed it to himself to get rid of flaws. I hope he "came to his senses" by now :bowdown:. Mike please know that you are loved unconditionally, at least by most of us here (me included).
Actually, the last 3 years had this scary effect on me: I actually feel I started to love unconditionally most of the people around. Is this normal doctor Michael :errrr:  ?

You don't have to meet a person to know a person. A face is just a face. Love can be expressed in different ways, characters can peek through the tiniest holes. I believe in love without sight, lol. 

This just became one of the best things you ever said Sou, at least for me.
Yes we don't have to meet Mike to love him. We can see him even he's hiding so well. I am glad you said it. I believe you are right.

[GINAFELICIA]

Everlastinglove:

I can imagine that Michael was longing for genuine love because of who he really is. That's why he loves the unprejudiced pure love of kids because they still know that although he was no no longer the "Ben" singing "little Michael" he is still the same person inside. I think it was very tough to have doubts about people's real intentions constantly.

Souza:

You don't get it? Who was loved all over the world? Michael Jackson the man, or Michael Jackson the performer? Don't you understand how that would make him question that love? As he sings in Behind the mask: "WHO do you love? Is it me? Well? I don't know." I understand very well that he did not know. Was it because they liked his songs, or his gold pants, or his hair? Or whatever else that made MJ the performer, or did people really love HIM? Michael, the person off stage. The man, not the performer. I can understand really well that he had trouble with that. As much as the fans love him, and I do believe it's sincere, they love MJ the Performer, because that is the person they know. I don't think anyone knew the real him, he was too private for that. Glimpses of the true Michael, sure, but not the whole real package. I bet he even isn't sure about the friends that REALLY love HIM for who he is, it's hard to know for sure they are sincere. It all comes down to his trust in people and that is something that has been violated so many times. I understand it very well.

OK Mike, I got it, you suffered because you didn't know who to trust and who not. But those days when you didn't know in who to put your trust are long gone, aren't they?
I hope now you know who you can trust. I hope you know.

[GINAFELICIA]

From Veronicafall

I'm one of the fans who believe they love both, the artist and the man.
Why? For I'm convinced the values ​​he promotes as an artist, primarily exist in the man Michael Jackson.

Yes, yes! You are right. He can not promote what he can not feel inside.

[bec]

I speak only from my own experience. True love requires intimacy. Intimacy is the sharing of inner most personal thoughts and feelings that occurs because one feels they are in a safe place with another person who withholds judgement. The desire for intimacy can be difficult to deal with because intimacy, much like true love, cannot be forced nor really sought and striven for, it is one of those wonderful things that takes time to develop and does so at it's own rate. It occurs slowly and progressively resulting from other factors such as familiarity and trust, which also cannot be hurried or manufactured. It requires one to submit to a great deal of vulnerability. For someone struggling with intimacy, it can seem nearly unattainable, for unlike most other desires for achievement, you cannot simply jump headlong into the pursuit of it and give it your all, expecting results. It doesn't happen that way. But it also does not happen unless one lets down their emotional walls (or takes off their persona mask). This can be especially frustrating for otherwise successful people, and people who have had traumatic experiences or who have been victimized in the past.

Regarding MJ, I don't think he is going to find true love from fans. That is superficial love really no matter how you look at it because there is no intimacy. In order to truly love someone and be loved back one has to be familiar on a deeply personal level and that's really not going to happen in that venue. It's just not possible no matter how great the desire.

Now, @Front, you quoted a couple posts so I presume you agree with those statements, so I just have to say, MJ has true friends who love him, and who likely MJ loves right back. Just off the top of my head, Miko Brando comes to mind, talk about a true friend. The Cascio Family as well, they seem to have true, sincere love for MJ. However, I can't think of any women specifically, at least no names stick out, so maybe THAT is what you mean?

MJ's fans could never truly love him. They never knew him. They still don't know him. MJ took great pains to ensure what we saw all these years was carefully orchestrated and before any of us knew it, everything became a facade, and one had no idea if what they were seeing/hearing was the "real" MJ or the "stage" MJ. The man is an enigma cloaked in mystery, wrapped up in an illusion. To some extent, who could blame them/us?

Ps. Bubbles does not have a tail. He is an Ape, he is not a monkey. Yes, it's bugging me.

[veronicafall]

Everlastinglove:

I can imagine that Michael was longing for genuine love because of who he really is. That's why he loves the unprejudiced pure love of kids because they still know that although he was no no longer the "Ben" singing "little Michael" he is still the same person inside. I think it was very tough to have doubts about people's real intentions constantly.

Souza:

You don't get it? Who was loved all over the world? Michael Jackson the man, or Michael Jackson the performer? Don't you understand how that would make him question that love? As he sings in Behind the mask: "WHO do you love? Is it me? Well? I don't know." I understand very well that he did not know. Was it because they liked his songs, or his gold pants, or his hair? Or whatever else that made MJ the performer, or did people really love HIM? Michael, the person off stage. The man, not the performer. I can understand really well that he had trouble with that. As much as the fans love him, and I do believe it's sincere, they love MJ the Performer, because that is the person they know. I don't think anyone knew the real him, he was too private for that. Glimpses of the true Michael, sure, but not the whole real package. I bet he even isn't sure about the friends that REALLY love HIM for who he is, it's hard to know for sure they are sincere. It all comes down to his trust in people and that is something that has been violated so many times. I understand it very well.

Interesting choice of quotes you made ​​here, Front. I understand you're saying Michael wasn't sure that his fans love him unconditionally as a whole, but only as an artist.

My question to you is: who has children? The megastar or the man? Or both, as a whole?

I ask this because at his 45th birthday party, in 2003, Michael told to fans the following:

"Over the years we became a family. You are all my family. My children are your children and all children of the world are our children and our responsibility."

Would a father entrust his children, even if just declarative, to some whose love and good faith he's not sure of?

[SEHF]

I speak only from my own experience. True love requires intimacy. Intimacy is the sharing of inner most personal thoughts and feelings that occurs because one feels they are in a safe place with another person who withholds judgement. The desire for intimacy can be difficult to deal with because intimacy, much like true love, cannot be forced nor really sought and striven for, it is one of those wonderful things that takes time to develop and does so at it's own rate. It occurs slowly and progressively resulting from other factors such as familiarity and trust, which also cannot be hurried or manufactured. It requires one to submit to a great deal of vulnerability. For someone struggling with intimacy, it can seem nearly unattainable, for unlike most other desires for achievement, you cannot simply jump headlong into the pursuit of it and give it your all, expecting results. It doesn't happen that way. But it also does not happen unless one lets down their emotional walls (or takes off their persona mask). This can be especially frustrating for otherwise successful people, and people who have had traumatic experiences or who have been victimized in the past.

Regarding MJ, I don't think he is going to find true love from fans. That is superficial love really no matter how you look at it because there is no intimacy. In order to truly love someone and be loved back one has to be familiar on a deeply personal level and that's really not going to happen in that venue. It's just not possible no matter how great the desire.

Now, @Front, you quoted a couple posts so I presume you agree with those statements, so I just have to say, MJ has true friends who love him, and who likely MJ loves right back. Just off the top of my head, Miko Brando comes to mind, talk about a true friend. The Cascio Family as well, they seem to have true, sincere love for MJ. However, I can't think of any women specifically, at least no names stick out, so maybe THAT is what you mean?

MJ's fans could never truly love him. They never knew him. They still don't know him. MJ took great pains to ensure what we saw all these years was carefully orchestrated and before any of us knew it, everything became a facade, and one had no idea if what they were seeing/hearing was the "real" MJ or the "stage" MJ. The man is an enigma cloaked in mystery, wrapped up in an illusion. To some extent, who could blame them/us?

Ps. Bubbles does not have a tail. He is an Ape, he is not a monkey. Yes, it's bugging me.

Woooo good post

[veronicafall]

@bec, "true love" sounds a bit... bombastic to me.  :icon_e_smile: But I believe in pure love, yes.

Maybe the fans don't know him intimately (it's unrealistic anyway, generally people do not really know themselves too well), but they haven't written "Wordd to the bad" or books in which to call him a c.m. - and NO slandering intended here, just facts.

I think his insecurity comes precisely from those who knew him closely and often betrayed him.

[curls]

Leaving MJ's perception of others' love for him aside for a moment, I wonder if he has ever found the peace within that comes from loving oneself. Being a perfectionist, striving always to be The Best is an almost impossible task and dare I suggest, comes at a huge price emotionally. In my experience insecurity and low self-esteem is at the root of desperate seeking of love and approval.

I hope MJ is happy and at peace with himself.  For a man promoting love at every turn all through his life he deserves that at the very least.

[MJonmind]

I agree with your post on love for the most part Bec.  Wow, love is so easily said, but such a complex thing to describe or feel really confident in.
I'm kinda grasping for words... I've known many hurts, and I've probably hurt others.  I know the feeling when I feel happy to be with someone in friendship when they accept you fully, and through the years never turn away from you. I know love in a friendship where they accept you, but you don't have the full range of topics to talk about, either they hate the topic, or know nothing about it, or are uninterested. Or you might feel loved for your thoughts but feel uncomfortable in their presence because of seeing the person physically, etc.  So complex.  True love for me, means having some history together to build up a knowledge base of understanding.  With Front, we've had one year for us to 'see' him, and him to 'see' us as individuals. Maybe one little thing you said ticked off the other person. When there is perfect trust, it doesn't matter what comes out of a person's mouth--it's okay and they should never fear they'll be rejected. Or when it's an in person friendship, they shouldn't have to fear if their shirt doesn't match, or they've gained a little weight, or they said something kinda stupid.  "There is no fear in perfect love."  You know the expression, when someone touches you, it opens up the flower of your heart. When someone believes in you, you can do things you didn't think you could, you think things in new exciting ways.  I really believe the vast majority of people in this world have never had someone really love them, for the flower of their heart to be opened to who they really are--it stays closed and hard for almost all their life. Well, just a few thoughts on a tough subject.

Front, sweet little monkey! You've got the hand waving "Hi!" 

Bec, you're  right!  Maybe monkey's got a tail because of Souza's post:

Why are they telling us Lucy is a missing link when Lucy's legs were found a mile and a half from her head in a different layer of the earth? Why are there still monkeys? Why did we loose our tail?

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
But the ape from MissG pic has no tail either!  :icon_lol:

[jono]

Of course he has an agenda. And he's probably wrong on certain things as well, but there are facts he presents that you can't ignore if you are an evolutionist. I always hear a lot of attacks towards creationists, mostly that they are stupid and delusional, but I have never seen anyone take the time and effort THEY put into their points of view, to refute them. It's okay to disagree, but if one party puts a lot of effort into (trying) to prove a point, and all people can say id 'that's BS' or 'He's biased and ignorant' etc, then there is not much to debate about. I can say 'evolution is stupid and ignorant and biased and I think that evolution was invented by satan to make sure people would distance themselves from God'. But if I say that, I have to back up that claim or else it's just that: an opinion without a solid foundation it's built on. .

+1

It is easy to to attack the person, it a whole different ball game to debunk the facts.

For example, why are the evolutionist STILL using Haeckel's embryo drawings as proof for evolution when it was proven wrong (actually, it was a fraud from the start) 125 years ago??

Do creationists have an explanation for why all mammal fetus's go through an aquatic and then reptilian stage while in vitro? Because we do. Human fetus's develop gills for a time...

And how come the evolutionist still claim the chimp to be evolutionary close to humans when modern genetics debunks (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login) this??

And the list goes on and on and on.... But, yes... This is a topic for You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login I guess  :icon_e_smile:

[jono]

:icon_lol:

 :thjajaja121:    :thjajaja121:

Well, I guess THIS IS IT... Our common ancestor!

Nice drawing Front !  :icon_e_biggrin:

[lilwendy]

:icon_lol:

I'd recognise those biceps and those collar bones anywhere!!!!

....it's Bubbles   :icon_e_wink:   :icon_lol:

 :icon_cool:

 :thjajaja121: :thjajaja121: :thjajaja121:  You are priceless Front and Adi!

[lilwendy]

@Adi Actually that sketch that Front posted is a portrait of me... I have proof...