Official back & Front thread

[bec]

p.s. Front is of the STRONG opinion that the KINGdom never wanted this "Great Divide"--it was inevitable--- I assure you, Michael would NOT WANT this! however, this too shall be righted in tIME…….

Front, when I talk about believing that what we are seeing is a Sting on the fans [and the media] I am not insinuating that this Sting is in order to expose for punishment, rather to expose for resurrection. The knowers have gone through a tremendous personal journey to get to where we are today, and for many it included being broken down, brought to the brink; we were Evy. The journey was necessary as the experience outweighed the destination. The scenery made the trip worth it.


I think it is entirely possible that this sort of tough love resurrection awaits the non-believers via this fan [and media] Sting... as well as some "believers" yet. Let's face it, the hoax is a fan Sting no matter how you slice it... MJ is working VERY HARD at horrifying his fan base, who largely and vocally believe he is a dead weirdo druggie. Who would have thunk it; the very people who claimed to love and understand him so deeply and so passionately, fell for his obvious hoax.


As far as the Great Divide, the anger on both sides is probably pretty disgusting but some people are just straight up nasty [some think I am]. I don't have a problem with non-believers, I have a problem with assholes. An asshole is apparent regardless of what hoax classification they fall under. You catch my drift.


For the record, nobody wants this to be true, it just is. So yeah, I think I catch yours too.

[MichaelsAngel]

I just wanted to thank everyone for their hard work  /bravo/ I wish I could be more actively involved but I promise I have been reading every day. Hopefully, I will get some down time and be able to help out more. Ironically, this hoax is keeping me sane right now  lolol/

[curls]

Do not become encumbered by ASSumptions from others who cast mere words upon the KNOWERS without irrefutable evidence to support their "certainties". It's no better than reading a tabloid….."Well, I read it in so-and-so, so it MUST be true!"

This part of your post Front, struck a chord with me.

Watching the trial yesterday I noticed how much assumption was going on: assuming MJ had drug dependency problems, assuming he had insomnia - hell, they even keep SAYING the word 'assuming', as if to further highlight the shortcomings of this trial! Since when did a court of law allow blatant ASSUMING with no FACTS to back up the assumptions???

There are no written records from Murray - from my living room courtroom I'm asking if that was actually because he did nothing that required recording??  Dr Klein who they keep referring to and who it would seem could be in a position to turn some of these assumptions into facts (or not), is conveniently not being called to testify.  Yet they have 'experts', giving highly informative 'lectures' that are however, irrelevant to this case unless there are facts and proof that the subjects they are talking about actually relate to MJ's situation.

I'll stop now!

Thanks for calling by, Front!

[MJonmind]

Yes, so much ASSumptions going on in trial yesterday. :lol:

Paula-C, good catch verifying that the pic of MJ can not be an official autopsy or deceased photo.  We knew that!!

MissG, I really love your attitude!!  :lol:  We almost have to have a tough shell here. MJ says, "I have rhinoceros skin."


Front, thanks for your reassuring presence here! Your KINGdom intrigues me. Great Divide -- between beLIEvers and nonbeLIEvers, perhaps even fans and nonfans, including everyone. 

p.s. Front is of the STRONG opinion that the KINGdom never wanted this "Great Divide"--it was inevitable--- I assure you, Michael would NOT WANT this! however, this too shall be righted in tIME…….

This just makes me think of the Kingdom of God that Jesus talked about all the time. The "Great Divide" could be referring also to heaven and hell, the sheep and the goats, for JW's the 144,000 and the others. In the song MJ wrote, "All in His Name", he sings there's one religion of love. So, "this too shall be righted in tIME..." MJ spoke about being able to help even Hitler, considered the epitome of evil. To me this is a whisper of ALL things being righted, the earth healed, all Divides being brought together. Healing the planet cannot be only about saving the rainforests and elephants, but healing the hurt and selfishness inside people.

voiceforthesilent quoted Front

Seek the answers in the darkness. Do not be afraid to venture into hidden shadows, for you will SEE the unmistakable LIGHT surrounding the "madness" of your scope. Bolster your foothold and hone your vision while walking the path of wisdom---and soon you shall SEE, every corner, crevice, fissure...with CLARITY.

For some reason when I read this quote by Front my mind went to the autopsy photo with the blacked out area. Maybe I am not reading far enough into the message...

Possibly, who knows? There has been plenty of focus on this area these past 2 years (not including GP :lol:).  I may be missing some things:  the peeing in the cup, catheders, urine measurements and annalysis, jock itch, Oprah asking why he grabs his crotch, autopsy saying he actively produced sperm, the 2005 trial photographs, JC mentioning a blemish/birthmark, the question of genetic link to PPB, several pictures of MJ sitting under Michaelangelo's statue of David looking at his privates, MJ making the symbol of the upsidedown pyramid with his hands in front of his privates. There has to be purpose behind this. Throughout history (especially secret societies) the phallus has been a key symbol of male power, creativity and life itself, no small matter. It also figured as part of Solomon's temple design. Ultimately we are created beautifully by God's design, male and female for procreation and pleasure and love. But I agree there has to be purpose and reason for all this. :?

[heartwarrior]

There must be several strong reasons for the director of this 'circus-court' to include the picture of a naked, dead man supposed to look like Michael Jackson. One reason surely is to test 'be-leavers' or encouraging believers to turn into knowers.
The black-out region makes me remember the childmolesting trial. I didn't follow it then but we all know that Michael Jackson was 'made naked' - physically... mentally...his sensitiv  soul put to filthy exibition, maybe the worst trauma he was experiencing throughout that trial.
Regarding those looking-back-facts it just shows one more time what a greate soul and character Michael Jackson is (not mentioned his multiple talents)...HE still gives us entertainment and laughter during this breathtaking journey, a fake autopsy picture is just part of the package to let our laughter freeze in our throats from time to time.

Thank you for this present Mr Jackson, you sure owe nobody nothing and still you are acting so generously....must be L.O:V:E:.....

[_Anna_]

I will not hide what I think and feel for the sake of anyone who might like or not what I say, and this goes for every aspect of my life.
 
 
To Front
The doubt has risen in me to high levels, I doubt the intentions of perpetrating this whole situation more and more, and if I didn't it would mean I have no idea of how internet is a dangerous platform, more dangerous than the majority of people maybe believe, and I know much about this to believe there are good people coming to help just because. You understand me, Front? Put yourself in my shoes; you don't know me, and I don't know you. You haven't seen my face and neither did I see yours. There are people who can trust in the good intention of someone they don't see, but to me it's impossible, because that would mean to believe the world is all good and to close the eyes to dangers that can be serious both for us and maybe for Michael himself; to puppeteers who don't want our good, that's for sure, but to manipulate, influence people's minds and draft them into a direction because "all is so clear" when it actually might not be clear at all. You get what I'm saying?
 
I'm not playing any game, I don't want to make you give away anything, what I feel is what you get; I don't wear masks in this situation. For me it's too important and maybe you got me, I hope at least... I'm not the person to laugh about this situation, to find it entertaining and funny because I would lie to say that. For me it was never funny, entertaining, I never could laugh about it because for me this situation has put a huge weight on me, emotionally. I am a person for who it's black or white, who either cares to the point of feeling I'd rather be myself in that situation than seeing someone I love being hurt...or dead; or if I don't care, I don't put heart into it, I ignore.
 
It's what i'd feel for my sister or brother, what I feel with Michael. I know how I suffered back in 2001-2005, seing him being dragged through dirt and feeling like I'd crush the screen just seeing him every day being dragged to court while innocent. If I felt that much pain I wonder how he could bear it. Since then I woke up and looked around me and I saw that the world was not good, at all. I saw there are monsters, people who'd crucify an innocent man for their own parasiting needs and agendas. I lost faith in a better world. I know the world is as bad as it can get, full of wickedness from all sides, dangers and (bad) puppeteers.
 
When I see the family going through all this, books, interviews, constantly saying he was murdered, I wonder WHY would they say this and at least not keep quiet? The books are out there; they were bought by people, sold for money,they will remain out there. Why, if Michael is alive? Now the photo...I broke down to tears when I saw it, and I don't need anyone to understand me or believe me. I know what I feel. I can't believe this photo is fake with no serious proof of it being fake... I work in Photoshop since years, I know it can be done, but just because it can be done doesn't mean it is in this case. Photoshop is noticeable. You can tel when it's photoshopped, and this photo doesn't look photoshopped in terms of colours and bruises, I don't know if Michael would pose for this photo, why for? Wasn't hard enough? Why would he do that.. Front...?
 
I am even afraid to think about this, but all this points towards murder more than anything. The family screamed murder since day one, they keep saying that. Why would Jermaine say "Michael was an insomniac desperate for sleep"? Why is the sleeping issue the main focus of this situation? From where all the toxicology reports and dosages to extremely explicit mg, why all these details if it's not true? Where did all these come from? who invented them? They certainly don't look like being invented. To keep the faith when all these come into question is hard.
 
I said above that I am afraid to trust anyone's good intentions, including you, Front. I know you understand me, you are not stupid, I know you get me...Behind a screen ID there can be anyone. Reason why this "unknowness" is taking the worst out of me. You certainly perpetrate the fact that Michael is alive when all this has gone into such graphic proof as the autopsy photo. So do others. Keeping this issue even through all this, makes me wonder for what reason? either it's true and yours (and others) intentions are good, or it's not and all this has been a monstruous plan to satisfy demented minds that would enjoy keeping false hopes high for more than 2 years just to see in the end that Michael is not with us, on this earth, in flesh and bones. I don't put the blame on you or anyone, but you know very well people will grasp on someone who might know, if not all of them, at least some of them. People say "you choose to believe or not" but it's true only on one hand; on the other hand it's like a relationship. You cannot give your love, trust and all to someone and then be told "you chose to love and trust me, that doesn't mean I asked you to or that I was truthful". It's a bond created. Just because you give your trust and love to someone doesn't mean they have all the right to lie to you, pretend and that it's a fair game cause you chose to. Yes, I chose to but that doesn't mean I deserve to be lied and hurt. You engage in it. It's give-give; from both sides. I am as responsible as the other side. Think about this hypothetical situation- just because someone loves you and you don't doesn't give you the right to lie to that person, give him/her false hopes and in the end to reveal it was never true, but it's his/her fault she believed. You understand me? I don't accuse you, I just say what I feel and I'm sure you understand. If all this is just a lie, keeping it up will hurt more in the end. Or if it's true, I'd cry tears of joy just to see him safe and sound, alive. I chose to give you a bit of my trust, but I hoped that it won't be stepped on in the end (and still have that hope).
 
I hope you get what I'm saying. I care more than you'll even know yourself. Otherwise I wouldn't be here, i wouldn't suffer and I wouldn't engage in this discussion with you.

[Love4MJ]

...

[_Anna_]

@Love4MJ
 
Yes, I question everything and even if I will sound straight in your face, I will tell you: your job here is highly suspicious for me.  Maybe it works with others, but not with me. I don't have to have anyone telling me I'm on the right track or not, and certainly I don't believe that a hardcore non-believer like you with more than 100 posts on a forum that is at 180 degrees distance of your beliefs, will spend time here trying to kiss doubters' asses just to drag them even more in the non-believer side for no reason and without a hidden agenda.
 
And yes, clapping smilies are uncalled for right now.

P.S Your posts scream out to me that you are  a hardcore non believer or a tabloid trash employee trying to work "undercover". 

[BeTheChange]

About the family writing 'books' that contain 'lies' or falsehoods (i.e. them stating MJ is dead when he's really alive)...and the points being made by some that these 'books' are being sold as truth...and money is being made on 'lies' (if you believe Mike is alive). 
 
I fully believe that Mike is alive...and knowing that means that yes, the family has 'lied' about certain things.  We may not understand the reason(s) why they have....but I fully trust that there is a very good reason for it.  People are getting all worked up about La Toya and Jermaine's books...while forgetting that long before we heard anything from any family member, the biggest 'lie' came from Mike himself in 'faking' his death.  Yet, people were able to look past Mike's 'lie' in trying to understand WHY he would go to these lengths.  Both La Toya and Jermaine, in their books, have simply perpetuated MIKE'S 'lie'.
 
Dialogue from V:
 
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login: You got to me? You did this to me? You cut my hair? You tortured me? You tortured me! Why?

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login: You said you wanted to live without fear. I wish there'd been an easier way, but there wasn't.
[Evey whispers, "Oh my God...?]

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login: I know you may never forgive me... but nor will you understand how hard it was for me to do what I did. Every day I saw in myself everything you see in me now. Every day I wanted to end it, but each time you refused to give in, I knew I couldn't.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login: You're *sick*! You're *evil*!

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login: *You* could've ended it, Evey, you could've given in. But you didn't. Why?

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login: Leave me alone! I *hate* you!

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login: That's it! See, at first I thought it was hate, too. Hate was all I knew, it built my world, it imprisoned me, taught me how to eat, how to drink, how to breathe. I thought I'd die with all my hate in my veins. But then something happened. It happened to me... just as it happened to you.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login: Shut up! I *don't* want to hear your lies!

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login: Your own father said that artists use lies to tell the truth. Yes, I created a lie. But because you believed it, you found something true about yourself.
 
How many countless books have been sold to millions of people around the globe...claiming to be 'truth', yet being FAR from 'truth'?  One need only take 9/11 as an example of 'lies' being used to cash in on a real tragedy.  Those who made money, and still continue to make money, by selling 'lies' about 9/11 are doing so with the intention(s) of greed or cover-up or ignorance or money or just plain evil.  They are NOT doing it to shed LIGHT on the 'truth'...they are not doing it with the purpose of helping humanity to better themselves.
 
Some may insist that a 'lie' is a 'lie' no matter what...and that is their perogative.  But IF a TRUE "artist is using lies to tell the truth"....IMO then the 'means' are, most definitely, justifiable....even if those 'means' are not understandable or cause pain.  Because, in the end, all will be understood...all the pain will be replaced with 'knowledge' and 'truth'.  In the meantime, when we find ourselves surrounded by 'darkness'...there's lots to be said for FAITH in everything we have learned over the past 2+ years, not to mention FAITH in the man who felt he had to 'lie' to the world to get us there.
 
With L.O.V.E. always.
 

[Sarahli]

Okay.

I do believe that someone has already mentioned this (MJonmind?)  but just to serve as a reminder. TS warned us that things would get worse before they get better. We are seeing and hearing many things that are unpalatable and shocking. Things that are shaking us to our very core. Viewing Michael’s private matters laid before the whole world to see is deeply upsetting even though we know that this is all part of the Hoax, it’s still difficult because we love Michael and care for him. However we have to remember that in order to detoxify the deep-seated lies that have become embedded in the minds of people would take something very big and dramatic to shift the focus and to see anew with fresh eyes. The fog of lies and slander that the media has built around Michael needs something as big or even greater in order to be dissipated, so everything that is going on right now with the Hoax is absolutely NECESSARY and fundamental. Again it's been said over and over and OVER again, Michael has not elaborated this 2 decade long (see more!) Plan just for entertainment. Serious issues are involved and WE must SUPPORT Michael in all this, not too much the other way around in my opinion...even though he did support us as well  , I hope you understand what I am trying to say.

There are many things that we do not know about Michael, but piece by piece the mystery is being revealed to those who keep their eyes, ears, minds and hearts open.

This Hoax is about Michael and not us. We either beLIEve or we don’t. That’s how faith works and this is also how faith is tested. Faith is put through fire. There comes a time when we have to take a stand and act on the courage of our convictions, lest we be driven and tossed about with every changing wind.

We have Michael’s words “it’s all for L.O.V.E”, and if we love him, we will have faith in him too.

Wise words to consider...........

Hebrews 11:1
International Standard Version (©2008)
Now faith is the assurance that what we hope for will come about and the certainty that what we cannot “SEE” exists.

TS quote:

You can also kindly remind them that the issue is what MJ believes, and his message; others are free to have their own beliefs, but the hoax forums are about MJ and his reasons for the hoax. And please do not get into unkind arguments with anyone; remember, it’s all for L.O.V.E. Preparing for bamsday means understanding the message, helping others to understand it, and most of all: living the L.O.V.E. yourself!”

Back Quote:

On 6-25-09, tIME took a literal backseat to the mOMENt. I could always "see" a Silhouette on a Grand-stage, once again taking over the World. Perhaps also parallel in holding to our proclamation that this was NOT a "comeback", but a take-over. This was it. And in a thunderous sense,----- it was. It just didn't dawn on me that that Grand Stage would be in the Heavens; A visual Staple-d to the Center of our minds for all eternity.

Physically--no more, but with us in an eternal Angelic presence. We witnessed the beginning of this transfer on 7/7 of this historical year.

For those of you losing faith, reflect on these words, look Back and beyond the Illusions, it's all there for us to SEE. Patience is a virtue and is always recompensed. So Keep the Faith, beLIEve and wait....

 moonwalk_/

[bec]

Yup Sarahli, you better hang on tight or you're gonna get blown away. Michael offered us all his hand to stay grounded. Grab it, hold it, and don't you let go.


You gotta stand for something or you'll fall for anything.

[Love4MJ]

...

[Sarahli]

Thanks Bec for the acknowledgment  beerchug

[GINAFELICIA]

@ _Anna_ I believe I have been quite clear that I am a non-beLIEver from the beginning. That does not mean I am not open to circumstance changing. However I have yet to see any compelling evidence to change my faith, belief or view. What I have been able to observe is how unwelcoming and not so nice some have been towards me. There are many Michael Jackson forums that I visit. Some I observe and others I participate.  Apparently its clear that some dont want to be encouraged if they are beginning to doubt (or from my perspective -- see the light). When you or anyone begins to lose faith you would rather others come running and prop you back up to your comfortable ways of thinking about the hoax and that MJ is alive. Instead I've been told to go away because my views are different. I welcome everyone's views. Only bullies try to run people off and make them feel unwelcomed. Now I know how Michael felt.

Blessings to all.

Don't you understand there's nothing you can do here?
Even if some of us doubt, we are NOT the people to be told what/how to think/fell or to be encouraged to go in a direction or another.
You honestly think that after enduring so much bashing from non believers we will ever accept their "compassion" ? Even if let's say finally they will be proved right (God forbid bow/ ).

I don't want/need it in any way or form, not now, not never.

[GINAFELICIA]

I just wanted to say that the only certainty for me at this time is that the ambulance photo is fake.
Because the paramedics said his eyes were wide open when they got there and the UCLA doctors said the same. So the ambulance photo must be fake.

I don't know anything else for sure.