Official back & Front thread

[GINAFELICIA]

Simpattyk maybe you are right and it was not rivalry. Maybe Michael just "stole" something from Elvis and made it better. After all Elvis is in that "the last supper" painting WTF??

[SimPattyK]

Simpattyk maybe you are right and it was not rivalry. Maybe Michael just "stole" something from Elvis and made it better. After all Elvis is in that "the last supper" painting WTF??

Yes, you got the main idea, it's just I don't agree very much with the way you put it ...  lol Don't take it wrong, please ! You see, Gina, I look at both of them very highly, I can't imagine any of them "stealing" something, even if I know you used the word instead of "inspiring", which sounds better to my ears lol
If you read pages 4 and 5 from the link I gave you above ^^ you will surely understand what seems to be the explanation for all these similarities/connections/"coincidences" between Elvis and Michael.
If you believe in GOD, you will understand 200%, if you are an atheist, you will understand only 100% lol

Regarding "The Last Supper" painting, it's just another "coincidence" !?? lol [ELVIS: "There's no such thing as coincidences"], both for Elvis and Michael, there were artists who painted them as JESUS in a replica of Da Vinci's painting of Last Supper.  Read more on the same link I gave you above ^^

Please answer me on that topic there ^^ , I don't want to get "OFF-topic" here and/or bore people who might not be that interested in this subject.
Thanks!

[bec]

Gina you're "suspicious" like a weather-vane.


@Miss G. I had a long reply to you about Plato's cave analogy and PC ate it [yum]. I'm running short on time but I just want to mention, I think this is an excellent connection. I think this is the ARG. By playing, we get led out of the cave. Non-believers are still inside it. Believers who fell off the wagon were disturbed by the real world and went back underground where it is familiar. TS has alluded to our future role as diplomats, more or less, more then once, to those let out of the cave [finally!] by the upcoming BAM.


TS is the teacher, but what we do with the lesson is up to us. Front is a teacher as well. This is why they don't take requests nor answer direct questions. This is also why they do not get angry or impatient, even when challenged, for they know what we do not know.


I think this is an adventure game [ARG] designed to educate through entertainment; which is a powerful medium capable of reaching and enlightening people on mass scale. Us first, as disciples or squad leaders, or equivalent, and the masses later [bamsday]. I think this potential is why MJ is [was-they think] considered such a massive threat by TPTB. I think he is aware of the power that he possesses and he is willing to unleash it. I'm just not sure he waited until they were about to strike before using it. I'm not even sure he was on their current radar when he announced the O2 series in March of 09... having more or less dropped out of sight since 05. Certainly strategic, as Im_convinced's vision, letting them believe they won, only to declare checkmate. I think he may have even had first strike... and they have no idea yet...

[GINAFELICIA]

I am sorry /white flag/.

I think I know. Michael wants us to do what he's doing geek/.....when he's serious and studying and planning, we must do the same, if he feels like joking and playing, we must urgently go into that mood mj_bad/.
What if he starts to dance michael-jackson/ michael-jackson/ michael-jackson/?!I guess we all have to learn to moonwalk/spin/grab crotch  before it's too late geek/

Bad MJ, bad !! /pull hair/ bearhug  I love you bearhug !!

[GINAFELICIA]

Oh...bec I agree with your post. Well the last part of it.

[MJonmind]

Simpattyk maybe you are right and it was not rivalry. Maybe Michael just "stole" something from Elvis and made it better. After all Elvis is in that "the last supper" painting WTF??

Yes, you got the main idea, it's just I don't agree very much with the way you put it ...  lol Don't take it wrong, please ! You see, Gina, I look at both of them very highly, I can't imagine any of them "stealing" something, even if I know you used the word instead of "inspiring", which sounds better to my ears lol
If you read pages 4 and 5 from the link I gave you above ^^ you will surely understand what seems to be the explanation for all these similarities/connections/"coincidences" between Elvis and Michael.
If you believe in GOD, you will understand 200%, if you are an atheist, you will understand only 100% lol

Regarding "The Last Supper" painting, it's just another "coincidence" !?? lol [ELVIS: "There's no such thing as coincidences"], both for Elvis and Michael, there were artists who painted them as JESUS in a replica of Da Vinci's painting of Last Supper.  Read more on the same link I gave you above ^^

Please answer me on that topic there ^^ , I don't want to get "OFF-topic" here and/or bore people who might not be that interested in this subject.
Thanks!

IMO, (aside from following the Megamind movie script of the characters representing Elvis and MJ)  it's about race, and it always has been about race, and will be in the future.
Were the Egyptian Pharoahs white or black. Egyptologists know much defacing of art has gone on, including the Spinx.
Was the Jesus (Yahshua) of 2000 years ago white or black? And the Israelites? The white world (at least my circles) would predominately be extremely offended to hear he might have been black, but the black world has accepted he must have been white. White supremacy has gone on for thousands of years, and Michael faught hard against it in the entertainment business, breaking many barriers that artists today take for granted.
I remember one interview with Joe and Katherine, where Joe said what happened to Michael was about racism, and Katherine chided him saying, Don't say that here.

SimPattyK, you say that Elvis was perceived as a kind of Jesus by his fans/followers, and MJ as a kind of Jesus for the black world. It's a kind of parallel thing goin on, which is sort of similar to the black or white Jesus in my mind.  Who will win in the end?  A good story or movie-line usually goes with the underdog, trampled/enslaved/abused and least expected-- triumphing over the more obvious winner/strongman. Don't most good stories follow that rule?

There's the counterfeit strain running parallel through Scripture, again part of God's grand story-line drama. The ending will be what no one expected.

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[SimPattyK]

[...]SimPattyK, you say that Elvis was perceived as a kind of Jesus by his fans/followers, and MJ as a kind of Jesus for the black world. [...]

?  I said that? Where? Please quote what you refer at, I really don't understand where you got this idea from. I never implied such a thing.

@MJonMind: Please read the rest of my answer , here: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login Just as I previously said to Gina, please, if you want to respond on the religious aspect, I think it's better if we continued our discussion in that topic ^^ I really don't want us to disturb the conversation here.  Thank you.

[MJonmind]

[...]SimPattyK, you say that Elvis was perceived as a kind of Jesus by his fans/followers, and MJ as a kind of Jesus for the black world. [...]

?  I said that? Where? Please quote what you refer at, I really don't understand where you got this idea from. I never implied such a thing.

@MJonMind: Please read the rest of my answer , here: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login Just as I previously said to Gina, please, if you want to respond on the religious aspect, I think it's better if we continued our discussion in that topic ^^ I really don't want us to disturb the conversation here.  Thank you.

Oh my bad, I worded it wrong.  I thought you said or implied the first part about Elvis being perceived by some of his followers as a type of Jesus because of the painting, and I was adding the second part about MJ myself. It's okay with me to continue the discussion on the other thread. Again, sorry for my mistake.  :oops: pale/

[MissG]

@Skyways, thanks for your kind words, you are so sweet  bearhug

Gina you're "suspicious" like a weather-vane.


@Miss G. I had a long reply to you about Plato's cave analogy and PC ate it [yum]. I'm running short on time but I just want to mention, I think this is an excellent connection. I think this is the ARG. By playing, we get led out of the cave. Non-believers are still inside it. Believers who fell off the wagon were disturbed by the real world and went back underground where it is familiar. TS has alluded to our future role as diplomats, more or less, more then once, to those let out of the cave [finally!] by the upcoming BAM.


TS is the teacher, but what we do with the lesson is up to us. Front is a teacher as well. This is why they don't take requests nor answer direct questions. This is also why they do not get angry or impatient, even when challenged, for they know what we do not know.


I think this is an adventure game [ARG] designed to educate through entertainment; which is a powerful medium capable of reaching and enlightening people on mass scale. Us first, as disciples or squad leaders, or equivalent, and the masses later [bamsday]. I think this potential is why MJ is [was-they think] considered such a massive threat by TPTB. I think he is aware of the power that he possesses and he is willing to unleash it. I'm just not sure he waited until they were about to strike before using it. I'm not even sure he was on their current radar when he announced the O2 series in March of 09... having more or less dropped out of sight since 05. Certainly strategic, as Im_convinced's vision, letting them believe they won, only to declare checkmate. I think he may have even had first strike... and they have no idea yet...

In the myth of the cave, Plato uses an allegorical explanation of the situation in which a man finds himself regarding knowledge.
In this situation the prisoners believe that the shadows they see and the echo of the voices they hear are true.

With the hoax glassess on, one could say that we have a release/ freedom process by:
-Going up to the outside world--access to the real world
-Returning to the underworld--the moral obligation to help the colleages

Like the prisoners in the cave who only see the shadows of objects, we live in ignorance when our concerns relate to the world that is offered to the senses. Only philosophy can release us and allowed us to leave the cave to reach the real world or world of "Ideas".

"A hoax is often intended as a practical joke or to cause embarrassment, or to provoke social or political change by raising people's awareness of something"

"The essential characteristic of a hoax is that it convey information that is, although false, at least somewhat credible. The subjective intent of hoax perpetrators varies, with the intent determining the content the perpetrator chooses and/or the content affecting the perpetrator's intent regarding whom to deceive"
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""Proven hoaxes of exposure" are semi-comical or private You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login. They usually encourage people to act foolishly or credulously by falling for patent nonsense that the hoaxer deliberately presents as reality. See also You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login."
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"Culture jamming sometimes entails transforming You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to produce ironic or satirical commentary about itself, using the original medium's communication method."
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now, my question: Who is deceiving who?

[BeTheChange]

@MissG....great analysis of "the cave" and how it relates to the hoax....and I agree, Plato's 'Cave' is being played out right off the paper it was written on and into a real life experience.
 

now, my question: Who is deceiving who?

THAT's the billion-dollar question, isn't it?  When you peel off all the 'layers' of the hoax...it pretty much boils down to THAT question.  Are we being led by good (Mike) or evil ('they')? 
 
My 'gut' and my heart tell me it's Mike leading us (i.e. good)...but there are still moments (although they are getting fewer in number)...when I 'ocsillate' between the two.  And I gotta say....it REALLY kills my buzz  :lol: ... when I 'entertain' the idea that this is all coming from a place of evil. 
 
I know we should not get stuck in 'wishful' thinking and be smart about things...but, with all I've seen and heard for the past 2 years (with huge emphasis on the 'guides' we've had through it all--Back, TS and Front)...it's actually becoming, in my mind anyway, 'illogical' to believe that they are leading us down a dangerous path...one fraught with evil.  Apart from being 'illogical'...I just don't FEEL they are evil...in fact, I think they are more 'good' than we are allowing oursevles to fully beLIEve.
 
With L.O.V.E. always.

P.S. My 'head' and/or 'ego' feels it necessary to add that maybe we are all being 'deceived' lol...but my heart says 'bring it on'.
 
 

[bec]

now, my question: Who is deceiving who?

P.S. My 'head' and/or 'ego' feels it necessary to add that maybe we are all being 'deceived' lol...but my heart says 'bring it on'.
 
 

I agree. I don't believe for a second that we have all the answers. I have always believed that Mike retains the right to shock the entire world... which includes us, obviously. I think we get our own special brand of hoax, through an adventure that we ourselves chose to embark on. There's a story line for the world, one for the fans, one for the nonbelievers, one for the latent hoaxers, one for the active hoaxers, and then one for the disciple hoaxers as well. I think when this is done, we will look back and laugh... because some aspect(s) that we were so sure about... will turn out to have been just an illusion all along.


I believe this is a game; a game in which it is becoming increasingly difficult to separate illusion from reality. But that is the game itself. If this were cut and dry, and the real truth was available to those who just sought to uncover it... we would have discovered the whole thing months, or perhaps years ago.


The deception is insured simply by definition and makes for some very interesting, and captivating, game play.

[RK]

There's a story line for the world, one for the fans, one for the nonbelievers, one for the latent hoaxers, one for the active hoaxers, and then one for the disciple hoaxers as well.

And I thought he was just cooking up a pie. Seems like it's more of a 7 day feast after all.

[voiceforthesilent]

@MissG....great analysis of "the cave" and how it relates to the hoax....and I agree, Plato's 'Cave' is being played out right off the paper it was written on and into a real life experience.
 

now, my question: Who is deceiving who?

THAT's the billion-dollar question, isn't it?  When you peel off all the 'layers' of the hoax...it pretty much boils down to THAT question.  Are we being led by good (Mike) or evil ('they')? 
 
My 'gut' and my heart tell me it's Mike leading us (i.e. good)...but there are still moments (although they are getting fewer in number)...when I 'ocsillate' between the two.  And I gotta say....it REALLY kills my buzz  :lol: ... when I 'entertain' the idea that this is all coming from a place of evil. 
 
I know we should not get stuck in 'wishful' thinking and be smart about things...but, with all I've seen and heard for the past 2 years (with huge emphasis on the 'guides' we've had through it all--Back, TS and Front)...it's actually becoming, in my mind anyway, 'illogical' to believe that they are leading us down a dangerous path...one fraught with evil.  Apart from being 'illogical'...I just don't FEEL they are evil...in fact, I think they are more 'good' than we are allowing oursevles to fully beLIEve.
 
With L.O.V.E. always.

P.S. My 'head' and/or 'ego' feels it necessary to add that maybe we are all being 'deceived' lol...but my heart says 'bring it on'.
 
 

BeTheChange - I can see why you'd go down this path of belief

For me, I interpreted the question a little differently. I see Michael as the deceiver over the media and whomever it is that has been set on taking him out. He's using their game to his advantage, a game of chess where he makes a move and watches to see what they do next. I wonder if he is a rated player? My ex-husband used to read books upon books of strategies and then would play against a computer for hours. He became a rated player by doing this. I guess I ran down a small bunny trail in my thought...LOL, but point is is that it takes a lot of strategically placed moves in order to make a checkmate. For the most part it doesn't just happen by chance - the players are not only thinking about what their opponent is doing but they are thinking 10 steps ahead. Oh - and it takes a LOT of patience to wait for the right time to make your move to checkmate.

Anyway, when I think about our Michael over the years and how he obviously used the media to his advantage, I can't help but wonder how much of what we saw was staged by Michael. I say this because we've been told by those privileged enough to spend time with MJ in private that he was a normal person. We've been told that he was actually quite handsome (we all know this without being told) but that he'd take hours to get ready to go out in public and sometimes it left the bodyguards, etc., scratching their heads as to why he made himself look so different. We've heard this from several people. We've heard recently from Jermaine about the wheelchair picture where MJ was being wheeled around Las Vegas - and Jermaine said Michael was playing with the media. It was a joke...which made me happy because it confirmed my thought that he did that for the media.  We've heard from insiders that if Michael didn't want to be seen nobody would see him - and example is a story from a Japanese businessman who said Michael would fly into Japan and be there for days without anyone knowing but him.  This happened elsewhere too.  However, there are stories where Michael would show up and media would be there - how did they know? I think they were deliberately tipped off on queue by Michael.

I've always thought that there was much more to Michael than what the media was portraying. For me, everything I've read over this past two years has confirmed just that. He was never a broken down, frail, drug addicted, nose-falling off, etc., person that was shown to the media. And he isn't now.

So, who's deceiving who? Michael is clearly the #WINNER. Michael is tired of how the media (and those that are behind the media) destroys the good character of his idols, friends, and family. He's angry that the entertainment industry (and those with the power) will set someone up to be crushed when they become too powerful or when they get out of line (the list is too long but look around for examples).

Okay - I had better quit rambling and get to work. I'm watchin' and waiting for that CHECKMATE!!!

Blessings to each of you this beautiful September day.

[MissG]

@MissG....great analysis of "the cave" and how it relates to the hoax....and I agree, Plato's 'Cave' is being played out right off the paper it was written on and into a real life experience.
 

now, my question: Who is deceiving who?

THAT's the billion-dollar question, isn't it?  When you peel off all the 'layers' of the hoax...it pretty much boils down to THAT question.  Are we being led by good (Mike) or evil ('they')? 
 
My 'gut' and my heart tell me it's Mike leading us (i.e. good)...but there are still moments (although they are getting fewer in number)...when I 'ocsillate' between the two.  And I gotta say....it REALLY kills my buzz  :lol: ... when I 'entertain' the idea that this is all coming from a place of evil. 
 
...

P.S. My 'head' and/or 'ego' feels it necessary to add that maybe we are all being 'deceived' lol...but my heart says 'bring it on'.
 
 

Thanks )

Same path here.

Imo, we all (or most of us) entertained the idea of Michael faking his death from the second we heard the news of his passing, so that side of questioning or "seeing from different perspectives" is latent in us, within our individual nature that seems to be shared in this matter. It does not matter how many "teachers" come along to take us from the cave, we were on our way out anyway, but, were the shadows this time the real deal? It can be understood either way...like in Delphi´s Oracle...Dead, not alive--Dead not, alive.

Some believe that certain member(s) of this forum is (are) Michael, so, by this fact there is proof that the man is still with us. The dilemma takes place when that "proof" is not vocal about it, confirming it.

We used "the philosopy" to get there, but some form of physical evidence is needed.

[BeTheChange]

The last few posts have been 'food for my brain'...L.O.V.E. it, great posts!
 
@Voice...isn't it amazing how we all interpret/internalize what we see or read in our own ways?  My 'mind' took me somewhere completely different than yours did (perhaps because, for me, my interpretation of the question is what gnaws at me in the background...more so than anything else---i.e. good vs. evil...more than Mike manipulating the media). 
 
But I find your 'perspective' fascinating as well...had you not shared it, I probably wouldn't have incorporated it into my thinking...thanks!  Although, the 'perspective' you presented stopped about half-way down the rabbit-hole  :lol: .  Just how MUCH and for how long has Mike been 'deceiving' and/or 'manipulating' the media?  Which events in Mike's life were 'real' and which were simply 'illusions'?  That could be a really deep hole once you start digging...and can set your mind spinning outta control lol.
 

We used "the philosopy" to get there, but some form of physical evidence is needed.

I agree...I beLIEve that the ONLY way for Mike to proclaim a REAL 'checkmate'...is through physical evidence.  We just gotta wait for it...
 
With L.O.V.E. always.