Murray not signing death certificate

[QuirkyDiana]

It is not necessarily unusual for Murray not to have signed, particularly if the cause of death is not obvious and not expected in his opinion. He is not obliged to sign the death certificate if the circumstances of death fall into the 406.11 category (see link pg 4 and 5). The Medical Examiner assumes jurisdiction and will sign the death certificate after investigating. Murray also cannot sign the certificate if he does not know the cause of death despite MJ being his patient. Also, by not signing the death certificate he is assuming not to have any knowledge of what killed MJ, thereby sticking to his story of 'I did not give Michael anything that should have killed him.'

http://www.miamidade.gov/medexam/librar ... lities.pdf

The link details info relevant to Florida. I am assuming the technicalities are the same or similar in California.

[nachomjj]

actually he is not in the obligaton to sign that DC, because he may not know what killed mj, and if he says he didn't give MJ anything that could cause him death is because he was not prescribring it to MJ, maybe other people went to the drugstores and bought it to MJ..

[the arabian nights]

It is not necessarily unusual for Murray not to have signed, particularly if the cause of death is not obvious and not expected in his opinion. He is not obliged to sign the death certificate if the circumstances of death fall into the 406.11 category (see link pg 4 and 5). The Medical Examiner assumes jurisdiction and will sign the death certificate after investigating. Murray also cannot sign the certificate if he does not know the cause of death despite MJ being his patient. Also, by not signing the death certificate he is assuming not to have any knowledge of what killed MJ, thereby sticking to his story of 'I did not give Michael anything that should have killed him.'

http://www.miamidade.gov/medexam/librar ... lities.pdf

The link details info relevant to Florida. I am assuming the technicalities are the same or similar in California.

he had the presence of mind to say those words, i wonder whether he has been involved in anyother untimely deaths before?

[word]

Maybe he didn't want to sign the death certificate because he didn't want to make it look like Michael died on his watch.Murray knew Michael was gone when the parameducs arrived,he knowing he had power over the paramedics because he was a doctor,he instructed then to continue CPR,so the time of death could be called at the hospital.You're slick Murray but you aint that slick.

[Christiana]

Maybe he didn't want to sign the death certificate because he didn't want to make it look like Michael died on his watch.Murray knew Michael was gone when the parameducs arrived,he knowing he had power over the paramedics because he was a doctor,he instructed then to continue CPR,so the time of death could be called at the hospital.You're slick Murray but you aint that slick.

But he would also know that by not signing the death certificate that would guarantee that the coroner's office would then have jurisdiction and would begin an investigation. So even if MJ is actually dead, Murray didn't do himself any favors by assuming control over the paramedics etc, so that the death could be called at the hospital.

So, if you play devil's advocate and assume, for the sake of argument, that MJ really died, then it's possible that Murray wanted an investigation. Think about it: if there was a conspiracy to kill MJ and Murray is just a fall guy (which I believe to be what happened, IF MJ ACTUALLY DIED), then refusing to sign the DC was the perfect way for Murray to ensure an investigation that might expose those involved in the conspiracy.

For all we know, Murray did leave the room and when he did, someone else went in and injected MJ with the lethal dose of propofol. Then Murray returned and found MJ dead and panicked. If he didn't give MJ the lethal dose, then someone else did. But Murray would know that he looked guilty as hell. So he set about trying to get rid of anything that would implicate him. At the same time, he would know he'd likely have to clear his name, and an investigation would be the perfect way to try to do that.

I've thought about all the possibilities a lot. If MJ is alive, then Murray is either in on it, or maybe not. And if MJ is dead, Murray is the fall guy at best (which would explain why his story is so screwed up--because he probably doesn't really know what happened either!) But either way, he had to ensure an investigation would occur, and his refusal to sign the DC was the answer. This is all just speculation, of course. I'm just thinking out loud.  :lol:

[Raven]

But he would also know that by not signing the death certificate that would guarantee that the coroner's office would then have jurisdiction and would begin an investigation. So even if MJ is actually dead, Murray didn't do himself any favors by assuming control over the paramedics etc, so that the death could be called at the hospital.

So, if you play devil's advocate and assume, for the sake of argument, that MJ really died, then it's possible that Murray wanted an investigation. Think about it: if there was a conspiracy to kill MJ and Murray is just a fall guy (which I believe to be what happened, IF MJ ACTUALLY DIED), then refusing to sign the DC was the perfect way for Murray to ensure an investigation that might expose those involved in the conspiracy.

Good observation. In case of an unnatural death, it is standard procedure that the physician is not to sign the deathcertificate and authorities are notified; the case is then automatically deferred to the coroner.
You do have a point there, if Murray did not want any investigation he could have signed the deathcertificate himself...but he didn't.

Another thing, you say "if there was a conspiracy to kill MJ and Murray is just a fall guy IF MJ ACTUALLY DIED)". There is also an option that there was a conspiracy, Murray was a fall guy but MJ DIDN't die. I'm saying that because it was known up front for a long time that certain people were out to murder MJ, and I find it hard to believe that nothing would have been undertaken to protect MJ or to catch them in the act and just let Michael be a sitting duck and get murdered. For all I know, getting Michael to the hospital could have been a way to escape from that house.

For all we know, Murray did leave the room and when he did, someone else went in and injected MJ with the lethal dose of propofol. Then Murray returned and found MJ dead and panicked. If he didn't give MJ the lethal dose, then someone else did. But Murray would know that he looked guilty as hell. So he set about trying to get rid of anything that would implicate him. At the same time, he would know he'd likely have to clear his name, and an investigation would be the perfect way to try to do that.

Well the point is..there was no IV pump found, so there was no dosage regulation at all. An empty bottle of propofol that was stashed away in a hidden compartment had a tear in the rubber, similar to what would have been caused by a spike. Basically what is being done then is the bottle is turned upside down and have gravity do its job...totally reckless in the case of propofol to put it mildly. Does not appear to be a case of simple injection that anyone could have done slipping into the room, it is something only a medically trained person would know how to do. In addition, the bottle was stashed away together with the other bottles meaning the person who did the tear knew the location of the hidden compartment. It totally doesn't add up.

[QuirkyDiana]

Some really intriguing posts here. It's only by running through the motions that you see what can be done and what may have happened.

What if the propofol that Murray was supplied with was deliberately stronger than that indicated on the bottle? If Murray gave the dosage he said, the concentration of propofol may not have been what he thought. Deliberate tampering? But is that even possible? The truth may also be much simpler. If Jackson had signs of lividity when paramedics arrived, you know Murray found him too late, suggesting he was not monitoring or absent at some point.