The Death Certificate: The Gift That Keeps On Giving!

[~Souza~]

Well who would have known we would still have legit death hoax cloooooooos in 2025?

In 2018 I uploaded this video, I suggest you watch this first before continuing to the rest of the thread:

(original date on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Po0--LuHTso)

I made that video after this thread was posted by @trublu : https://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=24986.0

At the end of the video I said I sent the Vital Records Office an email, but I just checked my email and I never received a reply to my first email and forgot about the whole thing for more than 6 years until I rewatched the video yesterday. So I decided to email them again with a different email address, because I still can't find any DC's with 'Department of Health Services' instead of 'Department of Public Health' in that same year, except for Patrick Swayze's death certificate. Here is what I asked:

"Dear sir/madam,

I have a question for my research paper. I read that the Department of Health Services was renamed to the Department of Public Health on July 1st, 2007 (Senate bill 162).
Does that mean that 'Department of Health Services' was replaced with 'Department of Public Health' on all vital records since that date if they stated 'Department of Health Services' before that time?

Thank you so much for your time!

Best wishes,
Souza Garcia"

And this time I actually DID get a reply and fairly quick (this morning). And guess what? Read their reply:

Thank you for contacting the California Department of Public Health-Vital Records (CDPH-VR). 
 
In May, 2007, the Office of Vital Records (OVR) told counties they should continue to use existing supplies of birth, death, fetal death, and marriage forms while OVR forms are being revised to reflect "CDPH." So, this process was not instantaneous on July 1, 2007. The revised forms appear to have been in use by January 1, 2008.
 
VR Mail
Center for Health Statistics and Informatics
California Department of Public Health

I will attach a screenshot of the email with this post as well.

Now what I also found was multiple websites offering PSD (Photoshop) templates for all kinds of documents, one of them being a Los Angeles County Death Certificate: https://editable-templates.cc/product/california-death-certificate-template (please do NOT purchase anything from this website!). Now this death certificate still has the old department on there, plus it looks an awful lot like Michael's death certificate. If you look at the little barcode bottom-right, mainly the placement of it, on Michael's DC (and Patrick's which also has the wrong department), it is different than all the legit death certificates you see in Trublu's original thread, yet similar to the fake template you can buy online. Yes, placements are not 100% the same, but it is a layered PSD where you can move everything around a bit here and there to make it look legit.

So even though we already knew the death certificate was fake because it never had Michael's true legal name on there, we now also know that the paper itself was not in use anymore after January 1st, 2008, nearly 18 full months BEFORE Michael 'died'!

Another thing on the Death Certificate that seems to be a 'mistake' is the 'VB' under the signature of the director/registrar Jonathan E. Fielding on the amended death certificate from 9/1/2009 after it had the code 'VE' on the original death certificate. I could never really find anything about it online, but now I was able to ask Grok what it meant, and here is the conversation, I suggest you read it in full because just like last time, you have to keep asking questions to get a good answer:

Grok, what does VE or VB or VD or VF mean under the signature of the director of public health and registrar mean on a California death certificate?

On a California death certificate, the codes "VE," "VB," "VD," or "VF" under the signature of the Director of Public Health and Registrar refer to specific types of events related to vital statistics:

VE stands for Vital Event. This is a generic term that could apply to any event recorded by vital statistics, including death, but specifically on a death certificate, it might indicate that the death was registered or processed in a standard manner without any special circumstances.

VB would typically denote Vital Birth, but on a death certificate, this might be an error or a misprint. However, in context, it could mean the record was linked or cross-referenced to a birth record for verification or correction purposes.

VD stands for Vital Death. This is directly relevant to death certificates, indicating that this particular document is a record of a death event. It signifies that the death has been officially recorded by the state's vital records system.

VF could refer to Vital Fetal Death. This is used when the certificate pertains to the death of a fetus, often where the fetus has achieved a certain stage of development (usually 20 weeks gestation or more in California), which must be reported similarly to other deaths.
These codes help in categorizing and managing vital records efficiently within the state's health department. They ensure that the type of event being recorded is clear, which is crucial for statistical purposes, legal documentation, and public health analysis.

Here's how these codes might apply:
Under the signature, these codes serve as an additional check or categorization by the registrar, ensuring that the document is correctly classified in the database or filing system of vital records.
They are part of the administrative process to ensure accuracy and completeness in recording vital statistics, which are important for demographic studies, public health policies, and legal validations.
If you need further clarification or if these codes appear in a different context on the certificate, it might be beneficial to consult directly with the California Department of Public Health or the county where the death was registered, as local practices can sometimes vary slightly.

Why would a death have VE instead of VD?

The use of "VE" instead of "VD" on a California death certificate might occur for several reasons:

Administrative Error or Typographical Mistake: The simplest explanation could be a clerical error where "VE" was entered instead of "VD" due to oversight or a typo. Given the volume of records processed, such mistakes can happen.

System Update or Transition: If there's a transition in the system used for recording vital statistics, or an update in the software or forms, "VE" might be a placeholder or a new code being phased in for a brief period before standardization back to "VD" for death records.

Ambiguity in Documentation: Sometimes, "VE" might be used when there's uncertainty about the exact classification of the event at the time of initial registration. This could happen if there's pending investigation, complex circumstances around the death (like in cases where it's not immediately clear if it's a natural death, accident, or something else), or if further verification of the death details is needed.

Cross-Event Reference: In some cases, a death might be linked to another vital event (like a birth if it's related to maternal death during childbirth), and "VE" might be used to denote this connection rather than just specifying it as a death event. This would be less common but could occur in scenarios where comprehensive records across different events are being managed.

Special Circumstances: There could be specific, less common situations where "VE" is used to denote a death that doesn't fit neatly into standard categories or requires special administrative handling. For example, if there's a need to flag the record for further review or special processing due to legal reasons, public health concerns, or for statistical purposes.

Training or Practice: In training scenarios for new staff or during practice sessions, "VE" might be used as a general placeholder before learning or deciding the specific event code.

It's worth noting that these are speculative reasons based on how such systems might work. The exact reason for using "VE" instead of "VD" would depend on the policies, practices, and specific context within the California Department of Public Health or the local registrar's office where the certificate was issued. If this discrepancy causes confusion or concern, it would be advisable to contact the issuing authority for clarification or correction.

So if the cause of death on the death certificate is 'deferred', would they use VE or VD?

If the cause of death on the death certificate is listed as "deferred," meaning it's pending further investigation or autopsy results, the code used would typically still be "VD". Here's why:

VD (Vital Death) is specific to the registration of a death event. The deferral of the cause of death does not change the fact that it is a death that needs to be registered. The use of "VD" indicates that the event being recorded is, without doubt, a death.

VE (Vital Event) in this context would be less appropriate because it's too broad when the specific event is known (a death has occurred), even if the cause is not yet determined. "VE" might be used in contexts where there's ambiguity about the nature of the event itself, not just its cause.

However:
There might be exceptional cases where "VE" could be used if there's an administrative policy or local practice where "deferred" cause of death certificates are flagged differently for follow-up or special processing. But this would not be the standard or expected use based on the information provided.
If there's a system where records are coded differently when awaiting further information, "VE" could theoretically serve as a temporary marker until the cause is finalized, but this would be an anomaly rather than the norm.
In summary, for a death certificate where the cause of death is "deferred," you would generally expect to see "VD" as the code because the event itself is clearly a death, regardless of how the cause might be pending clarification. If "VE" were used, it would likely be an indication of specific, perhaps unusual, administrative procedures rather than standard practice. If you encounter such a case, it might be worth checking with the issuing office for clarification on their coding practices.

So in case of a suspected homicide, what would they use? VE or VD?

In the case of a suspected homicide, the code used on the death certificate would typically still be "VD" (Vital Death). Here's the reasoning:

VD is used to denote that the event being recorded is a death. The nature of how the death occurred (in this case, suspected homicide) does not change the fact that a death has been registered. The cause and manner of death might be listed as "pending investigation," "homicide," or something similar once confirmed, but the event itself is still fundamentally a death.

VE (Vital Event) would generally not be used for this purpose because it's too broad when we know the specific event is a death. "VE" might be employed in scenarios where there's uncertainty about the event itself or when there's a need for a different administrative handling, but for a confirmed death, even if under criminal investigation, "VD" is the appropriate designation.

However, there are a few considerations:
Pending Final Determination: If the manner or cause of death is still under investigation at the time of issuing the certificate, the certificate might list the cause as "pending" or "under investigation," but the code would still be "VD" for the event itself.

Administrative Variations: There might be rare administrative practices or local procedural nuances where "VE" could be used to flag records for special handling or to denote that further legal or investigative actions are pending. But this would be an exception rather than the rule.

Systematic Coding: In some jurisdictions or during specific periods of system updates or transitions, there might be anomalies in how events are coded, but for a straightforward death registration, even in the context of a suspected homicide, "VD" would be expected.

In conclusion, for a suspected homicide, you would normally see "VD" on the death certificate because the event is definitively a death, regardless of the circumstances or the ongoing investigation into the cause or manner of that death. If there's confusion or a unique practice in place, direct inquiry with the issuing health department or registrar's office would clarify their specific practices.

So what about 'VB' on a death certificate, I take it that is a mistake?

Yes, typically, seeing "VB" (Vital Birth) on a death certificate would be considered a mistake or an error because "VB" is used to denote a birth event in vital statistics. Here's why:

Contextual Error: "VB" is specifically for registering births, not deaths. If "VB" appears on a death certificate, it's likely due to a clerical error, such as:

A typographical error where "VB" was entered instead of "VD" (Vital Death).
An accidental selection in a digital system where the wrong event code was chosen.
Miscommunication during the data entry process.
Administrative Oversight: Sometimes, in the rush or complexity of processing vital records, especially if there's manual data entry involved, mistakes can happen where the wrong code is used.

Systemic Issue: If there's a software glitch or during system updates, there might be a temporary confusion in how events are coded, though this would be unusual for such a fundamental distinction between birth and death records.

If you encounter "VB" on a death certificate, here are the steps you might take:
Verify with the Issuing Office: Contact the local registrar, county health department, or the state's vital records office where the death was registered to confirm if it's indeed an error and request a correction if necessary.
Check for Context: Sometimes, there might be accompanying notes, annotations, or subsequent corrections on the document itself or within the record system that clarify the mistake.
Document Correction: If it's an error, ensure that it's corrected in the official records to prevent any future confusion or administrative issues.

In summary, "VB" on a death certificate is most likely an error. The correct code for a death event should be "VD." If you come across such a discrepancy, addressing it with the appropriate authorities would be the best course of action to ensure the accuracy of legal and health documentation.

Could such mistakes have legal implications or cause issues with insurance companies?

Yes, mistakes like using "VB" (Vital Birth) instead of "VD" (Vital Death) on a death certificate can have both legal implications and cause issues with insurance companies. Here's how:

Legal Implications:

Identity and Record Accuracy:

Identity Confusion: If a death certificate incorrectly indicates a birth event, it could lead to confusion in identifying the deceased, particularly in legal proceedings or when establishing the legal status of someone thought to be alive.
Legal Documentation: Accurate death certificates are crucial for legal matters like estate settlement, inheritance, terminating benefits or pensions, and establishing rights to remarry in the case of a surviving spouse.
Probate and Estate Issues:
Without a correct death certificate, probate proceedings could be delayed or complicated, affecting the distribution of assets or execution of a will.
Criminal Investigations:
In cases where the manner of death is under investigation (like homicides), errors in documentation can confuse or delay legal proceedings.
Marriage and Divorce Records:
Errors might affect the legal standing of subsequent marriages or the dissolution of previous ones.

Insurance Issues:
Claim Processing:
Life Insurance: A death certificate is often required to process life insurance claims. An erroneous document might lead to claim denials, delays, or requests for further proof of death.
Health or Disability Insurance: If there's confusion about someone's living status, it could affect ongoing claims or the termination of benefits.
Beneficiary Rights:
Mistakes can lead to beneficiaries not receiving timely payouts or facing challenges in proving their entitlement to insurance benefits.
Fraudulent Claims:
Although rare, such errors could theoretically be exploited for fraudulent activities, although this would be detected upon further scrutiny.

General Implications:
Administrative Burden: Correcting such mistakes involves time, additional paperwork, and potentially legal fees if disputes arise.
Emotional Impact: For families, dealing with administrative errors during a time of grief can be particularly distressing.

Steps to Mitigate:
Immediate Correction: Contact the vital records office for an amendment or correction of the certificate.
Documentation: Keep records of all communications and corrections to provide to insurance companies or legal entities as proof of the mistake and its rectification.
Professional Assistance: In complex scenarios, involving lawyers or insurance adjusters might be necessary to navigate the implications.

While these errors are generally rectifiable, they underscore the importance of accuracy in vital records management, both for legal integrity and to prevent unnecessary hardship for families and affected parties.

You said: "Special Circumstances: There could be specific, less common situations where "VE" is used to denote a death that doesn't fit neatly into standard categories or requires special administrative handling. For example, if there's a need to flag the record for further review or special processing due to legal reasons, public health concerns, or for statistical purposes." What kind of legal reasons?

Here are some specific legal reasons that might lead to the use of "VE" (Vital Event) instead of the more specific "VD" (Vital Death) on a death certificate for special administrative handling or flagging:

Pending Legal Determination:

Criminal Investigation: If the death is under investigation for potential criminal activities (homicide, manslaughter, etc.), "VE" might be used to indicate a need for further review or to keep the record open for updates until the legal process concludes.
Identity Verification Issues:
Disputed Identity: If there's a dispute or uncertainty about the identity of the deceased, "VE" could signal that the record needs special attention, possibly involving DNA testing or other forms of identification verification before finalizing the death certificate.
Legal Guardianship or Custody Disputes:
If the death of a parent or guardian involves ongoing or resulting custody battles for minors, using "VE" might indicate that the record has implications for legal proceedings concerning guardianship.
Civil Lawsuits or Claims:
Wrongful Death Claims: If there's an anticipated or ongoing civil lawsuit related to the death, such as wrongful death suits, "VE" might be used to flag the record for legal departments to monitor or handle differently.
Coroner or Medical Examiner's Involvement:
Coroner's Court: In jurisdictions where a death must go through a coroner or medical examiner's court, "VE" might be used if the final determination of cause or manner of death is deferred to a legal process.
Legal Changes in Status:
Changes in Marital Status: For instance, if the death leads to the automatic dissolution of a marriage or affects the legal status of a surviving spouse, marking it with "VE" might indicate additional legal paperwork or actions required.
International Legal Issues:
If the deceased's status involves international law (e.g., citizenship, repatriation of remains, or foreign legal proceedings), "VE" could denote a need for coordination with international legal entities or special consular handling.
Legal Prohibitions or Restrictions:
Sealed Records: If for some reason the details of the death need to be kept confidential or legally sealed due to sensitive information, "VE" might be used to alert administrative staff to handle the record with additional care or under legal restrictions.
Statutory Requirements:
Certain statutes might require specific handling of death records in cases like deaths in custody, deaths related to medical malpractice, or deaths that trigger mandatory reporting or investigation by state agencies.

Using "VE" in these contexts would serve as an administrative marker to ensure that the record receives the appropriate legal scrutiny, handling, or flagging for special procedures. However, this would be more of an exception rather than a standard practice, and the exact use would depend on local laws, policies of the vital records office, or specific judicial or administrative needs at the time of registration.

'VE' was used on Michael Jackson's death certificate and 'VB' was used on the coroner's amendment of his death certificate. Can you explain that?

Based on the information provided in the web results:

VE on Michael Jackson's Death Certificate: Initially, Michael Jackson's death certificate was released with the cause of death listed as "deferred" because the coroner was still conducting tests, including on Jackson's brain. In such cases, where the cause or manner of death isn't immediately clear or is pending further investigation, "VE" (Vital Event) might be used to denote that the record needs special attention or handling. This could indicate that the record was to be revisited once more information was available or to flag it for legal or investigative purposes.
VB on the Coroner's Amendment: Later, after further investigation, the cause of death was amended to reflect that Michael Jackson's death was a homicide due to acute propofol intoxication. The use of "VB" (Vital Birth) on the amendment document appears to be an administrative or typographical error, given that "VB" is not typically used in the context of death certificates. This could happen for several reasons:
Clerical Error: A simple mistake where "VB" was entered instead of "VD" (Vital Death) during the amendment process.
System Error: If the amendment was processed through a database or system where codes are selected from a dropdown or similar interface, a wrong selection might have occurred.
Miscommunication: The amendment might have been communicated verbally or through a form where "VB" was mistakenly used or understood.

The usage of "VE" initially might have been to indicate that the exact circumstances or cause of death were not finalized, necessitating further review or legal considerations, especially given the high-profile nature of the case and the subsequent criminal investigation into Dr. Conrad Murray's actions. However, "VB" on the amendment is most likely an error, as it doesn't fit within the context of amending a death certificate.

These discrepancies highlight the complexities and potential for human error in managing high-profile or legally sensitive vital records. The amendment would have been issued to correct the initial "deferred" cause of death to "homicide," reflecting the coroner's findings, but the use of "VB" instead of "VD" or another appropriate designation for a death record amendment was likely a mistake.

But you said earlier that if it is clear that a death has occurred, even when the death certificate says 'deferred' for cause of death, or a homicide, it was still appropriate to use 'VD' instead of 'VE'. You believe that is not the case for Michael Jackson?
You're correct to point out the inconsistency. Based on the general practice for vital record coding as discussed earlier:

When a death has undeniably occurred, even if the cause or manner of death is "deferred" or under investigation, the appropriate code on the death certificate should typically be "VD" (Vital Death). This reflects that the event being documented is indeed a death, regardless of the specifics of cause or manner.

However, in the case of Michael Jackson:

The use of "VE" (Vital Event) on his initial death certificate might have been an administrative decision to flag the record for special attention or handling due to the unique circumstances surrounding his death:
High Profile Case: Given the public interest and the legal implications involved, using "VE" could have been a way to indicate that the record required additional scrutiny, legal review, or was subject to ongoing investigation.
Pending Investigation: With the cause of death initially "deferred" and later determined to be homicide, "VE" might have been used to signify that the record was not yet finalized in terms of legal or medical determination.
The "VB" on the Coroner's Amendment: This seems to be an error. "VB" (Vital Birth) has no place on a death certificate or its amendment. This was likely a typographical or administrative mistake, not reflective of any policy or correct procedure.

The unusual use of "VE" for Michael Jackson's case could be explained by:

Administrative or Policy Flexibility: Sometimes, in extraordinary circumstances, there might be flexibility or exceptions in how codes are applied, particularly if there's a need to highlight the case for further review or special handling due to legal, public, or investigative reasons.
Error or Misinterpretation: It's also possible that "VE" was mistakenly used when "VD" was intended, but given the context, it might have been a deliberate choice to signal the case's complexity.

In summary, while "VD" would be the standard code for any death certificate, the use of "VE" in Michael Jackson's case might have been an administrative decision to deal with the unique legal and public attention the case attracted. However, the use of "VB" on any amendment is clearly an error. My earlier statement was about general practice, and this case seems to be an exception where administrative decisions might have led to non-standard coding to accommodate the case's unique aspects.

Would the use of "VB" on the Coroner's Amendment give any issues in legal cases?
The use of "VB" (Vital Birth) on the Coroner's Amendment to Michael Jackson's death certificate, where "VD" (Vital Death) or another appropriate amendment code should have been used, could potentially lead to several issues in legal contexts:

Confusion in Legal Proceedings:
Identity Verification: If the legal proceedings involve verifying the identity of the deceased, an erroneous code could initially cause confusion about whether the document pertains to a birth or death, potentially complicating identity verification processes.
Evidence Reliability:
Court Admissibility: The presence of an obvious error like this might be used by opposing counsel to question the reliability of the document or the coroner's office's attention to detail, potentially affecting the perceived credibility of other evidence presented.
Legal Filings and Documentation:
Inaccurate Records: Legal documents or filings that reference the death certificate might need to be amended or corrected, leading to delays in legal proceedings or necessitating additional evidentiary hearings.
Probate and Estate:
Estate Settlement: In probate or estate matters, any confusion about the validity or accuracy of the death certificate could delay or complicate the settlement process, particularly if the estate is contested.
Insurance Claims:
Claim Processing: Insurance companies might hesitate or delay processing claims based on a document with a clear error, requiring additional verification or documentation to confirm the death.
Criminal or Civil Litigation:
Homicide Investigation: In the context of Michael Jackson's case, where the coroner's findings were critical to the criminal proceedings against Dr. Conrad Murray, an error like this might be highlighted to argue administrative incompetence or to suggest potential for other errors in the investigation.
Correction and Amends:
Amending the Record: The error would need to be corrected, which involves additional administrative steps, potentially drawing more attention to the case and possibly affecting public perception or media coverage.
Public Trust and Perception:
Transparency and Accuracy: Such an error might lead to public questioning of the coroner's office's competence or the integrity of the legal process, especially in high-profile cases.

To mitigate these issues:

Immediate Correction: The error should be corrected as soon as possible, with an official amendment or correction noted in the record.
Documentation: All involved parties (lawyers, insurance companies, court officials) should be informed of the correction to prevent misuse or misinterpretation of the document.
Explanation: If the error becomes a point of contention in legal proceedings, providing a clear explanation for how the mistake occurred might help in maintaining the document's credibility.

While the use of "VB" would not likely invalidate the legal proceedings or the determination of death, it would introduce unnecessary complications and potentially give grounds for legal arguments about procedural errors or document reliability.

So if Michael Jackson's death certificate said 'VE' first and then is amended with 'VB', does that mean that it the death certificate now has the wrong code of 'VB' if that has not been corrected?

Yes, if Michael Jackson's original death certificate used "VE" (Vital Event) and then was amended with "VB" (Vital Birth), and this amendment has not been further corrected, it would mean:

The Initial Use of 'VE': This could be interpreted as an administrative marker to indicate that the death was under special scrutiny or that the record required further attention due to the pending determination of the cause of death or other legal considerations.
The Amended Use of 'VB': This is clearly an error because "VB" is not the correct code for any part of a death certificate, especially an amendment. If this amendment stands without correction:
The Death Certificate Would Contain an Incorrect Code: The presence of "VB" instead of "VD" (Vital Death) or another appropriate amendment code (like "VE" again, or perhaps no code change at all since the amendment would typically update the cause of death, not recode the event) means the document is technically incorrect.
Legal and Administrative Implications:
Validity Concerns: While the factual information about the death (like the cause now being homicide) would still be legally recognized, the coding error could lead to confusion or challenges regarding the document's accuracy.
Need for Correction: There would be a need to officially correct this error to maintain the integrity of the legal record. This involves:
Issuing a new amendment or correction to the death certificate.
Notifying all relevant parties (courts, insurance companies, estate executors) of the correction to ensure that subsequent actions or decisions are based on accurate documentation.

If this error has not been addressed:

Potential for Misinterpretation: Though the context of the amendment would make it clear this is a death certificate, the wrong code could be cited in legal documents or discussions, leading to unnecessary complications.
Reputational Impact: This kind of error, especially in such a high-profile case, could reflect poorly on the administrative processes of the coroner's office or vital records department, potentially undermining public trust in official documentation.

To resolve this, the responsible authority should:

Amend the Amendment: Issue another amendment or correction to replace "VB" with the correct code or to clarify that this was indeed an amendment to a death certificate.
Record Keeping: Ensure that all records reflect the correct coding and that any reference to this document in legal proceedings or administrative use is based on the corrected version.

This process would ensure that Michael Jackson's death certificate is accurate and legally sound.

So as long as it is coded 'VB', it is not considered accurate and legally sound?
No, as long as the death certificate amendment is coded with "VB" (Vital Birth), it would not be considered accurate or legally sound for the following reasons:

Incorrect Coding: "VB" is used for birth records, not for death certificates or their amendments. This miscode directly contradicts the document's purpose and content.
Legal Accuracy: Legal documents, especially those as critical as death certificates, need to be accurate in every aspect, including coding. An incorrect code can lead to:
Confusion: In legal proceedings, administrative processes, or when dealing with insurance claims, this error could cause confusion about the nature of the document.
Challenges to Credibility: The mistake might be used to question the overall reliability of the document or the issuing authority's competence.
Administrative Integrity: Vital records are foundational documents for numerous legal and administrative actions. Errors in these records can undermine:
Public Trust: If discovered, such errors could lead to public skepticism regarding the accuracy of vital records.
Record Consistency: Accurate coding is essential for record-keeping, statistical analysis, and ensuring that all related documents and actions are based on correct information.
Legal Proceedings: In contexts like estate settlement, probate, or criminal investigations, an inaccurate death certificate could:
Delay Proceedings: Time might be spent clarifying the error rather than addressing substantive issues.
Require Additional Evidence: Parties might need to seek additional proof or verification of the death due to the document's inaccuracy.
Insurance and Financial Transactions: Insurance claims or financial settlements based on the death certificate might be held up or require additional scrutiny due to the coding error.

To be considered accurate and legally sound:

The Code Must Reflect the Document's Purpose: For a death certificate, this means using "VD" (Vital Death) or another appropriate code if one exists for amendments.
Corrective Action: The error should be officially amended or corrected by the issuing authority. This includes:
Issuing a new amendment document with the correct code.
Updating all official records and databases to reflect this correction.
Notifying all relevant parties of the correction.

Until such corrections are made, the death certificate with "VB" would be viewed as containing an administrative error, potentially affecting its legal standing and practical use.

Ok, humor me! Hypothetically, if Michael Jackson faked his deaths, could the use of "VB" on thr death certificate create some type of legal loophole that might help him later on if he decides to return to the public eye? No lectures on how improbable this is and how it is a conspiracy theory, I know that. I just want to hear how that could factually and legally have certain benefits when faking your death in case of witness protection programs.(To this question I received two answers with the question which one I prefered, so I will post them both:

Response 1
Understood, and I'll address this hypothetical scenario strictly from a factual and legal perspective, focusing on how the use of "VB" (Vital Birth) on death certificates could theoretically create legal or administrative effects in the context of faking a death, particularly for witness protection programs. I'll avoid speculation on the likelihood or ethics of such scenarios and focus on potential legal implications.

Hypothetical Scenario: Faking Death and "VB" Coding
In this scenario, if Michael Jackson faked his death and "VB" was used on his death certificate instead of "VD" (Vital Death), here's how it might interact with legal systems, particularly in the context of witness protection programs:

Legal Implications of "VB" on Death Certificates:
Document Misclassification: "VB" indicates a birth event, not a death. If this coding were deliberate, it could theoretically:
Obscure the Death Record: By misclassifying the record as a birth event, it might confuse automated systems, legal searches, or casual inquiries looking for death records, potentially reducing the visibility of the "death" in official databases.
Create Ambiguity in Legal Status: If someone were to search for a death certificate and find a "VB" code, it might lead to questions about the document's validity, potentially delaying or complicating legal actions that rely on proof of death (e.g., estate settlement, insurance claims).
Legal Loophole for Re-emergence:
Challenging the Death Certificate: If the individual later re-emerged, the "VB" coding could be used to argue that the death certificate was invalid or erroneous, potentially simplifying legal arguments for reinstating their legal identity. For example:
He could claim the certificate was a clerical error or never properly finalized as a death record.
This might reduce legal hurdles in proving he is alive, as the "VB" code could be cited as evidence of an administrative mistake rather than a deliberate death registration.
Witness Protection Context: In witness protection programs, where identities are often legally altered or obscured:
A "VB" code might be used as part of a broader strategy to muddy the waters around the individual's legal status, making it harder for adversaries to confirm their death or track their new identity.
If the individual needed to "return," the "VB" error could be leveraged to argue that the death was never legally valid, potentially easing the process of reinstating their original identity or creating a new legal persona.
Benefits in Witness Protection Programs:
Identity Obfuscation:
Database Searches: Many legal and administrative systems rely on standardized coding for record searches. A "VB" code might cause the record to be overlooked in searches for death certificates, providing an additional layer of obscurity for the protected individual.
Legal Challenges: If adversaries or investigators question the death, the "VB" code could introduce doubt, requiring them to expend more resources to verify the death, potentially protecting the individual's new identity longer.
Legal Re-emergence:
Reinstating Identity: If the protected individual needs to re-emerge (e.g., after the threat has passed), the "VB" code could be used to argue that the death certificate was never properly executed, potentially simplifying legal arguments for:
Restoring their original identity.
Nullifying legal actions taken based on the death (e.g., estate distribution, termination of contracts).
Avoiding Fraud Charges: If the death was faked with government assistance (as in witness protection), the "VB" code might provide a legal basis to argue that the death was never officially recognized, potentially reducing risks of fraud or perjury charges upon re-emergence.
Administrative Flexibility:
Record Manipulation: In witness protection, where records are often altered or sealed, a "VB" code might be part of a deliberate strategy to create administrative confusion, making it harder for unauthorized parties to access or interpret the record correctly.
Dual Identity Management: The "VB" code could theoretically allow for the creation of a parallel "birth" record under a new identity, which might be used to establish the protected individual's new life while the "death" record remains obscured.
Practical Challenges and Risks:
Legal Scrutiny: While "VB" might create ambiguity, it would likely be challenged in legal proceedings. Courts, insurance companies, or estate lawyers would likely demand corrections or clarifications, potentially exposing the error and undermining the strategy.
Public Records Access: In high-profile cases, media or public scrutiny might highlight the error, reducing its effectiveness as a loophole.
Witness Protection Oversight: Programs like the U.S. Marshals Service (which manages witness protection) typically have robust legal frameworks to handle identity changes. Relying on a coding error like "VB" might be unnecessary given their ability to legally create new identities or seal records.
Specific Benefits in Witness Protection:
Time Delays: The "VB" code could delay legal actions (e.g., estate distribution, insurance payouts) by requiring additional verification, buying time for the protected individual to establish their new identity.
Legal Defense: If discovered, the "VB" error could be used to argue that the death was never legally finalized, potentially reducing penalties or legal consequences for faking the death.
Obscuring Trails: For adversaries tracking the individual, the "VB" code might complicate searches, as it might not appear in expected death record databases, aligning with witness protection goals of obscuring identity.

In summary, while highly unconventional, the use of "VB" on a death certificate could theoretically create legal and administrative ambiguity that might benefit someone faking their death, particularly in witness protection contexts. It could obscure records, delay legal actions, and provide arguments for reinstating identity later. However, its effectiveness would depend on the specific legal and administrative systems involved, and it would likely face significant scrutiny in practice.
Response 2

Alright, let's entertain the hypothetical scenario purely for the sake of exploring the legal and factual implications, without any judgment on the plausibility of such events.

In this hypothetical scenario, where an individual like Michael Jackson might have faked his death (perhaps akin to a witness protection program situation), and the use of "VB" (Vital Birth) on his death certificate is deliberate, here's how this might theoretically create legal loopholes or benefits:

Legal and Factual Analysis:
Ambiguity and Legal Challenges:
Document Validity: The presence of "VB" (Vital Birth) on a death certificate could be used to argue that the death certificate is inherently flawed or invalid. If someone were to "return" to public life, they or their legal representatives might claim:
The death certificate was never legally sound due to the incorrect coding.
Therefore, any legal actions taken based on the death certificate (e.g., estate distribution, insurance payouts, contract terminations) could be contested or deemed voidable.
Identity and Status Confusion:
Reassertion of Identity: If "VB" suggests a birth rather than a death, this might be exploited to argue that the individual's legal identity was never properly "terminated" through death. They could:
Claim that their legal status as a living person was never fully extinguished.
Use this as a basis to reassert their identity and reclaim rights, property, or benefits that were altered or reassigned due to their "death."
Witness Protection or Legal Protections:
Protected Identity: In extreme cases like witness protection:
"VB" might be a coded signal within the legal or administrative system, indicating that the person is under protection and their "death" is not to be scrutinized too closely.
If they need to "resurface," the incorrect coding might provide a pretext for arguing that their death was always intended to be temporary or was a legal fiction, allowing them to resume their previous identity with fewer legal hurdles.
Estate and Financial Benefits:
Reversing Asset Distribution: If the death certificate is later deemed invalid due to the incorrect code:
They might argue for the reversal of asset distribution, insurance payouts, or other financial transactions that occurred based on their "death."
This could be beneficial if the "deceased" individual wants to regain control over assets that were distributed to heirs, trusts, or other entities.
Legal Precedent and Loopholes:
Legal Ambiguity: The presence of "VB" might create enough legal ambiguity to:
Challenge the finality of any legal proceedings (like probate) that relied on the death certificate.
Exploit procedural errors to argue that the individual's legal death was never properly recorded, thus allowing them to "return" without facing legal consequences for actions taken under the assumption of their death.
Avoidance of Legal Obligations:
Contracts and Debts: If someone faked their death and later returned:
They might use the "VB" code to argue that any contracts, debts, or legal obligations terminated upon their "death" should not be reinstated, claiming the death certificate was invalid.
Conversely, they could selectively enforce contracts beneficial to them by arguing the death was never legally valid.
Public Perception and Media Handling:
Narrative Control: The incorrect coding might be used to spin a narrative that the "death" was always questionable or legally dubious, making it easier for the individual to reintegrate into public life with less stigma or legal scrutiny.
Practical Benefits in Witness Protection:
Legal Reentry: If used as part of a witness protection program:
The "VB" code could serve as an internal signal to those "in the know" that the death was not genuine and that the individual might need to be "revived" legally at a future date.
It might simplify the process of reissuing identity documents, restoring legal rights, or reintegrating the person into society under their original identity.

Limitations and Risks:
Legal Scrutiny: Courts and legal authorities would likely scrutinize such claims heavily. Deliberately falsifying a death certificate (even with an incorrect code) could lead to serious legal consequences for fraud or conspiracy.
Third-Party Rights: Beneficiaries, insurance companies, or other entities that acted in good faith based on the death certificate might have strong legal standing to contest any attempts to reverse transactions or reclaim assets.
Practical Challenges: Even with a legal loophole, the individual would need to explain their absence, potentially facing public backlash, financial liabilities, or other complications.
Witness Protection Context: If used in witness protection, the government or program administrators would need to manage the reentry process carefully to avoid exposing the program's methods or compromising the individual's safety.

Conclusion:
In this hypothetical scenario, the use of "VB" on death certificates could theoretically create legal ambiguities or loopholes that might be exploited to challenge the validity of the death record, reverse legal actions, or facilitate a smoother return to public life. However, such a strategy would be fraught with legal risks, require careful planning, and depend heavily on the cooperation of authorities or legal systems. While the "VB" code might offer some superficial benefits in creating confusion or ambiguity, it would not guarantee a seamless or uncontested "return."

As far as I am aware the death certificate was amended last on 9/3/2009, as you can see in the attached PDF of the certified copy from 2019 (which does NOT mention the event codes, which is normal). All that was amended was the temporary envaultment at the mortuary at FL to the burial at FL by two mortuary representatives. The wrong name is still stated on the document and there is no amendment for the event code "VB" as far as we can see. Unless it was amended again after 6/24/2019 with the correct, legal name and the correct event code "VD", the death certificate is still BOGUS.

The use of "VB" in this case might have benefits and create loopholes. There is always a risk when you fake your death that people will sue your ass, but Michael is the GOAT of being sued (although I think Trump caught him on that easily by now. In fact, Trump must have danced in front of a bigger audience than Michael by now also. I wonder if it was a challenge Trump won HAHAHAHA). Anyway, lawsuits are nothing new to him and the estate has forked in so much money in the past 15+ years that it should not be a big issue in case he will be sued here and there. It's not like he has to handle most of it himself, he has a plethora of lawyers working for him.

So I thought I would share this information as I believe it's more evidence of a fake death certificate. I might make a video later for people who have the attention span of a goldfish and don't want to read. I can safely say that as they won't get to this point in the post anyway. If you do read this, kudos to you for making it to the end!

I do have to say that I do NOT believe Patrick Swayze faked his death, but I do believe his death certificate might be a fake. Not sure who released that, I can't find a credible source at all, so anyone could have made one with the template I just linked to for whatever reason. I do not believe it's Patrick's real death certificate but at least it has the code 'VD' on it.

Also, I am not claiming this death certificate is not filed with the Vital Records Office, it is filed as far as I am aware. I am not sure if Michael's DC can be requested, I haven't tried, has anyone else? The numbering seems consistent when I look at Brittany Murphy's, who died 6 months later. Just because it is archived there, doesn't mean he is dead. It only means what I have been saying all along: he had help from SOME type of law enforcement. But the death certificate. in my opinion, has so many 'mistakes' on there to make it look fake on purpose for those who actually look at it closely, likely for legal purposes, but who knows.

By the way, the signature under 126 (Signature of Coroner) is NOT a signature, it is the typed name of Cheryl Macwillie, Deputy Coroner, just like in the box to the right. I will attach that as well.  

[~Souza~]

The lack of the coroner's signature under the death certificate has been discussed years ago, but to add to this with Grok's answer:

What if the coroner did not sign the death certificate? It only has a printed name

Factually, if the coroner did not sign the death certificate but it only includes a printed name, here's how it would be legally interpreted:

Legal Requirements:
Signature Requirement: In California, a death certificate typically requires the signature of the certifying physician or coroner to be legally valid. The signature is part of the certification process that confirms the cause and manner of death.
Validity of the Document:
Lack of Signature: A death certificate without a signature might not be legally binding or considered complete:
Incomplete Certification: Without the coroner's signature, the document might be seen as a draft or incomplete record.
Administrative Review: This would likely prompt an administrative review to ensure proper certification.
Administrative Actions:
Correction Needed: The absence of a signature would necessitate:
Obtaining Signature: The coroner would need to sign the document or an amendment would need to be issued with the proper signature.
Official Amendment: If the original cannot be signed, an amended certificate would be created with the correct certification.
Legal Implications:
Not Legally Binding: For legal purposes like estate settlement, insurance claims, or probate, an unsigned certificate might not be accepted until corrected:
Delayed Proceedings: Legal processes could be delayed until the certificate is properly certified.
Challenge to Validity: In legal settings, the certificate's validity could be challenged due to the lack of signature.
Identity and Estate Issues:
Identity Confirmation: Even without a signature, if other identifiers match, the identity of the deceased would still be clear, but the document's legal standing would be in question until rectified.
Fraud or Error:
Investigation: There might be an investigation into why the certificate was issued without a signature, looking into administrative errors or potential fraud.
Re-emergence Scenario:
Legal Correction: If someone were to "re-emerge," they would still need to address the death certificate through legal means, proving they are alive and correcting the record, not just relying on the lack of a signature.

In summary, while an unsigned death certificate would not be legally valid until corrected, the fact of death would still be acknowledged through other means. The primary action would be to ensure the document is properly signed or amended to reflect legal certification of the death.

So all this might be why:

- His life insurance was 'cashed in': https://web.archive.org/web/20220429093856/https://www.contactmusic.com/michael-jackson/news/jacksons-life-insurance-pays-out-3-million_1112289 (see article itself, the title is misleading).
- His kids, his mother or charity have still not received a dime: https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/michael-jackson-heirs-estate-irs-dispute-1235030682/

And do I have to remind y'all: we are nearing the 16-year-mark. There has been PLENTY of time to correct all this. There is no reason for this to take this long. Not even for Michael Jackson.

[MadGallifreyan86]

I just think, how elaborate this whole thing is
Michael covered all his bases, but he HAD to
So what I'm taking from this is that technically it can't be accepted as a legal document ?
If im wrong please give me a shake haha

[~Souza~]

Well yes and no is what I got from it. It's a death certificate, but there's too many mistakes for a high profile person to be a coincidence. You should have suspected it to have been corrected soon, given the fact that it could lead to delays and issues with various proceedings. Which makes sense if Michael faked his death but would be extremely strange if he really died. Too sloppy, would have been fixed instantly by the estate.

I received another answer about the health services paper:

It appears that the revised marriage forms went into effect January 1, 2008. The birth certificate form was revised in July 2007, but some counties were still using up their stock of the previous form at least into the first months of 2008. So, the time varied based on how much stock each county had at the time the change went into effect.

I replied and asked specifically about death certificates. I will post the answer once I receive it. 'At least into the first months of 2008 still sounds far from mid-2009.

[MadGallifreyan86]

Yeah the death certificate is shady AF

[BettyZ]

Well done, sometimes it is worth to look into things after a while, as you said it is highly suspicious why it was never fully corrected. Even if it was a typo with the VB, which yes can happen, but come on not with MJ's death certificate, all the money behind that and complications..... They had to manipulate for all circumstances and possible return. For me it was always questionable why this was never brought up really, all the mistakes on the certificate, seems like they never wanted to draw any attention to the death certificate. And I bet that they have also their coding for witness protection or something hidden on death certificates that people involved can easily identify. Why change something to make it even more fake... maybe they needed to have it amended to make it so that, if he want to return they could argue that it is not legit.