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[Echo]

LOL Echo, it sounds like you've been on a management training course!

I'll have to get back to you on this as I don't have time right now to properly formulate my thoughts, but my initial response is to ask why you think we have not covered all of these bullet points as our investigation has evolved and progressed over the past five years.  We may not have had a flip chart or a formal 'tick list', but that doesn't mean we haven't been thorough!

Please, now that you're no longer a silent observer, tell us exactly where we've gone wrong and if you genuinely believe it's possible from 5 Steps to get all the answers, proof and solutions you need to 'solve' MJ's death.

LOL...my thoughts have been formulating for quite a while. Take your time...

This site is fantastic  :th_bravo:

Please understand that as a silent observer I have made no judgement that anything is wrong. There is nothing wrong.  My observation is that it is time to raise the bar on the process and begin to show productivity.

The five steps is a theoretical example, a guide of sorts, not to be taken literally line by line.

Michaelslady ( :screaming-7365:  :Pulling_hair: ...lol ) has given us a short list of the mounds of questions and phenomenal information  compiled. These same questions (and more) spin round and round and round in my head too.

So I ask again, where are we going with this information and how are we going to get there?

It's time to defrag and format...

[iamhere4mj]

Maybe we could start with a list of what we would search on and what would give us the best results in figuring out what happened and why. It would be nice to know if it was Michael or not at the 02 but that isn't going to tell us what happened or why.

And go in a different direction with searching, dig deep and think outside the box.

Since I am new to this site, I'm not sure if what I know (or think) has already been discussed here. There is a ton of information to go through and I don't want to repeat what is already here.

Here are a few things that might be new:

1.   In the Carolwood raid report there is a number that is associated with the investigation and I got the guts to contact the coroners office and I was given a name and date of death that corresponds to that number (it looks very much like an autopsy report number). The sad part is that it was of a 3 month old baby. To go along with that in Murray's arraignment report from 2010 there is a SCARS report – it has to do with abuse. Maybe we can dig a little deeper into this.

2.   The above kind of ties in with who is buried at Forest Lawn. I believe children are buried there – the tomb actually consists of 8 chambers and if I am remembering correctly there were 15 plots purchased by the family. I did research after receiving the info from the coroners report and in the year 2008 there were like 14 deaths of children where Childrens Services were involved. Elyssa Fleaks (the coroners assistant or something like that) is actually an advocate for children.

3.   I was lucky enough to talk to a guard at Neverland and he said things, without saying anything -  if you know what I mean. He also signed a confidentiality agreement after being hired in 2009 and he was at Neverland in 2005. Maybe what he said can shed some light on some things.

I'm not sure if this is what you are talking about Echo but I'm all for trying a different approach.

Love you Michael!

[curls]

I really don't want to put a dampener on your ideas, and it'd be great to see some serious investigating again here - it's been lacking for some time, probably due to tiredness and feeling jaded and needing to get on with life away from a screen!

I honestly don't know how many here still have the stomach for yet more investigating, though I know Souza has wanted it for some time!  I'm not sure that many feel the need, as they have either satisfied themselves that MJ is alive and have left it at that to pay attention to their own lives, leaving here completely, or going to where they think the action is, or just popping in to read, not wanting to miss anything, just in case, or, they still doubt it and have moved on or are still watching here - just in case, or they decided he's dead!

I'll tell you where I stand,  I came here to find out if MJ could still be alive, bothered by all the strange things that didn't add up, starting with the 02 announcement that just felt 'weird'. I reached the conclusion he's alive not by any one thing, but a culmination of many, that on their own prove nothing!  That conclusion was reinforced many times as the months/years went by, but the enthusiasm and hope of a return evaporated at the end of 2012.  Enter the jaded, tired feeling!

I'm still here though as I don't think Murray's story is over yet, and so I keep watching.  I'm not convinced of a come back any more, I think MJ's goals and ambitions may have changed with his 'time out', but I'm still hoping for some sort of an ending, a conclusion, before I go, so I'm not prepared yet to throw in the towel. I'll be honest and say I'll be disappointed if this all just fizzles out. I am very apprehensive of getting into obsessive computer time (again), especially when I don't see how it could make MJ any more alive for me!  I don't need any more proof.

That being said, I know we've missed a lot ( I don't think I've heard of the points you just raised iamhere, for example), so it'd be pretty neat to fill in some of the gaps ... and it probably wouldn't take much to spark my enthusiasm again!

michaelslady, yours was a brilliant post, you listed so many of the strange oddities we've witnessed and it was great to actually read them all listed again, rather than (what I generally do) a blanket. cover-all 'weird stuff' statement.

Well done guys - now I must do some life stuff!

P.S. It's great to have you here michaelslady, echo and iamhere4mj - you've injected some much needed life into the forum and brought up some interesting ideas on a number of threads!  Sorry if I'm fighting the enthusiasm!

[michaelslady]

I know the feeling. its exhausting. but this is like a train wreck; I just cant look away. Something is keeping me interested. I let go for 4 years, still thinking he was alive, but didn't know what to make of my thoughts. I lurked here off and on for the first few months. but then I didn't know what to make of the weird things that simply didn't add up. but im in too deep and just cant let go. there has to be an end to all of this. I hope we can make some sense of it all. but its like we don't know where to even begin. too bad we are not rich, because we could pay people to tell us what really happen lol

[Echo]

I really don't want to put a dampener on your ideas, and it'd be great to see some serious investigating again here - it's been lacking for some time, probably due to tiredness and feeling jaded and needing to get on with life away from a screen!

I honestly don't know how many here still have the stomach for yet more investigating, though I know Souza has wanted it for some time!  I'm not sure that many feel the need, as they have either satisfied themselves that MJ is alive and have left it at that to pay attention to their own lives, leaving here completely, or going to where they think the action is, or just popping in to read, not wanting to miss anything, just in case, or, they still doubt it and have moved on or are still watching here - just in case, or they decided he's dead!

I'll tell you where I stand,  I came here to find out if MJ could still be alive, bothered by all the strange things that didn't add up, starting with the 02 announcement that just felt 'weird'. I reached the conclusion he's alive not by any one thing, but a culmination of many, that on their own prove nothing!  That conclusion was reinforced many times as the months/years went by, but the enthusiasm and hope of a return evaporated at the end of 2012.  Enter the jaded, tired feeling!

I'm still here though as I don't think Murray's story is over yet, and so I keep watching.  I'm not convinced of a come back any more, I think MJ's goals and ambitions may have changed with his 'time out', but I'm still hoping for some sort of an ending, a conclusion, before I go, so I'm not prepared yet to throw in the towel. I'll be honest and say I'll be disappointed if this all just fizzles out. I am very apprehensive of getting into obsessive computer time (again), especially when I don't see how it could make MJ any more alive for me!  I don't need any more proof.

That being said, I know we've missed a lot ( I don't think I've heard of the points you just raised iamhere, for example), so it'd be pretty neat to fill in some of the gaps ... and it probably wouldn't take much to spark my enthusiasm again!

michaelslady, yours was a brilliant post, you listed so many of the strange oddities we've witnessed and it was great to actually read them all listed again, rather than (what I generally do) a blanket. cover-all 'weird stuff' statement.

Well done guys - now I must do some life stuff!

P.S. It's great to have you here michaelslady, echo and iamhere4mj - you've injected some much needed life into the forum and brought up some interesting ideas on a number of threads!  Sorry if I'm fighting the enthusiasm!

No apology needed. You all have been going at it for quite some time. Our thought process is that MJ did not die. I have to tell you, proving that something did not happen is very difficult. A few of the greatest minds have said that it is virtually impossible.

I joined the forum because I noticed that the members were a failing breed. Diminishing slowly...

Hopefully people will respond to my DO NOT REPLY threads and we will be able to decipher and put a few things in perspective.

Happy for our exchanges!

[NJackSwing91]

Hello @Echo.  I need more clarification on the 'Do Not Reply Zone' threads.  So, we would only respond with information on the topic and not include our personal thoughts and feelings about it?  Is that correct?

[Echo]

Hi NJS,

Your commentary can include anything that you want. Personal opinions, evidence, impressions etc.

The only restriction is that we do not reply on these threads. Our goal is to create a series of threads that are "easier" to navigate for ideas and information.

Any thoughts on this concept?

[NJackSwing91]

Ah. I get it now.  I think this is a great idea.

[michaelslady]

Everytime it seems as if we get close to knowing what could've truly happened, its like starting all over again. Somedays I get discouraged and wanna give up.

[Echo]

Everytime it seems as if we get close to knowing what could've truly happened, its like starting all over again. Somedays I get discouraged and wanna give up.

I understand. It can be discouraging. But do not give up. Maintain hope. Waive expectation. And continue to Believe. We may never know what truly happened - but we certainly can Believe.