Discussion 1: Could he have done it alone?

[AllInGoodTime]

If it was a real 911 heart attack, police are not normally sent.  

Since MJ's call it was not revealed it was MJ, the PD might not have been "aware" of who was at the house.

Having PD there as the Ambo did their thing could raise suspcision as to their being there.

So no PD just follows what every Joe Blow 911 call is like unless it is a crime scene and not a medical emergency.

If Ambo's arrive to a scene where an obvious crime was commited they notify PD , but in this case it did not appear this way.

[RK]

The irregulartities  and general oddities start from the beginning of the 25th. We have been told that the paramedics arrived to a death at home scenario. I don't know if protocol is the same in different countries, but in Australia, in the case of a person passing away at home, the police must attend because a death has occurred. Suspicious or not. In the event of a 000 call here, police usually roll up along with the ambulance and crew and they work together to coordinate the best outcome in the crisis.  So I'm having to entertain the idea that the 911 call was a fake because of no police present . Given the fact we were told a death occurred and the 'death scene' was not in lock down, we either have a very incompetent police force in LA or they were taking direction from a higher authority. This is not the keystone cops here so they must be under orders.
I  admit the chance of showing up the force's incompetence would be tempting considering the humiliation and brutality Michael had suffered at their hands, but I'm sure he's a bigger man than this and has much bigger fish to catch and then fry.
If I take the next logical step from here then the paramedics at the house on the 25th must be IOI if the 911 call is a fake. What are the overriding thoughts that lead me to arrive at this conclusion? The lack of police presence during the emergency. Feel free to shoot down my starter theory.

[bec]

That is true AIGT, but I thought we had more or less established that the call was fake and the paramedics are IOI. So no real call=no real emergency dispatch.

Quite true that LAPD need not send a patrol car to a routine emergency call even if the call/paramedics had been real/legit.

Hmm *scratches head*.

Off to think on this.

[AllInGoodTime]

Time of death can only be called by a doctor/RN.. THis case a docotor was there and he did not call death, so it was not a crime scene til after UCLA.

When we code someone at work, we go until told to stop even tho we know they ain't coming back.  I have coded people for over an hour and they dead from get go but time of death was not until we stop.

So CPR never "stopped" on MJ so therefore not dead. Not dead til UCLA.

Of course assuming this all happened on 25th.  Which will be debated later I'm sure.

[bec]

RK, but the argument is that Murray successfully got "the body" sent to hospital so therefore Carrolwood wasn't considered a death scene until many days later... which is when police finally came to investigate it.

So that sort of lends itself to the theory that LAPD might not have been IOI, at least originally.

No dead on site=no police presence=no crime scene.

Later reports leaked out that paramedics "thought he was dead " at scene. Not right away so it could be argued that was reason for no LAPD at Carrolwood. Like AIGT said, no need for PD at medical emergency, and he's right about that.

Again, no need to investigate a death scene when initial reports all indicated that this was simply a medical emergency in the home, with death occuring at UCLA.

Ok now I'm really off to think on this (aka go to work).

[RK]

MJ you are shifty. You have used every loophole to your advantage.

[bec]

You know, HIPAA laws restrict everyone from discussing anything in regards to a real patient and their condition that day.

[AllInGoodTime]

Hard to fathom PD not being IOI...but makes sense they weren't needed too....very interesting.  No seemingly real reason for them to be then.  
First question---

Help needed- yes-check

Who---
FBI-yes-check
Fire-yes-check
UCLA-yes-check
Coroner-yes-check
Police-hmmmm

[AllInGoodTime]

I still lean to PD IOI...

Once everyone knew it was MJ at hospital and he 'died', With everything about MJ being well overblown, etc, would you not send someone over directly after the 'death' knowing of crowd control and/or the possibilites of foul play just because it's MJ.  Seems they took their time.(I do not know if they sent PD for crowd control later on 25th for sure)  

But again, even if not involved, and evidence was gathered, the coroner already IOI so he could confirm/deny whatever it was they found.

[paula-c]

all bizarre characters in this story an incompetent doctor, a paramedic who recognize a person anywhere in the world is known, the police to act after the "crime scene" already been "contaminated", and is nothing but that these police have the videos up and they saw nothing but the moment when Michael gets home around 12:30 am, but as the case is not considered simply murder them! deleted!

[AllInGoodTime]

Well, I am torn 50/50 on PD.

I can see why they'd be IOI and why NIOI.

Maybe their role is revealed later as we break this down.

I call it a push right now.

[paula-c]

Michael was not alone in this, would not have done it without the help of the FBI

[~Souza~]

LAPD has to be in on it. They did an "exhaustive and thorough" investigation. If WE can figure out with the info we have that MJ is still alive, I am certain they would, IF they would not be in. They talked to Murray, the talked to family members, the coroner had to report to them, they had to be present at the court houses, memorial etc. No way they would not be aware of the hoax.

Detective Orlando Martinez asked a Las Vegas judge this AM to keep search warrant documents related to Applied Pharmacy secret until January 18. (a HOLIDAY)
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Investigation wraps up in October:
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Then finally it was late December, same time the FBI files were released:
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Chief William Bratton on the Lupus Race for Life, I thought that was interesting:

[youtube:7k8bb27i]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tikjYeF5Rgg&feature=related[/youtube:7k8bb27i]

[AllInGoodTime]

ok, I am now 80/20 PD in.....anyone else we are missing before we close this out?  

WE have made overwelming arguments for each group being involved, and very few solid points that  they aren't....

IMO we have answered out the first question.  

I think next should be ...that day umm the other day............did june 25th happen that day or perhaps prior?(this will be fun one)

Of course, when souza says "we graduate".....LOLOL

[paula-c]

~Souza~ wrote:

LAPD has to be in on it. They did an "exhaustive and thorough" investigation. If WE can figure out with the info we have that MJ is still alive, I am certain they would, IF they would not be in. They talked to Murray, the talked to family members, the coroner had to report to them, they had to be present at the court houses, memorial etc. No way they would not be aware of the hoax.

Detective Orlando Martinez asked a Las Vegas judge this AM to keep search warrant documents related to Applied Pharmacy secret until January 18. (a HOLIDAY)
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login ... las-vegas/

Investigation wraps up in October:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login ... ort-court/

Then finally it was late December, same time the FBI files were released:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login ... slaughter/

Chief William Bratton on the Lupus Race for Life, I thought that was interesting:

if I am not mistaken, correct me if I was not so LAPD have been the least have been mentioned in this :?: