Do you think Michael Jackson uses this forum?

[Le Papillon Bleu]

Souza this is the picture you are talking about two different MJs. People said that this one was at the backstage and the double was at the stage and showed this picture as a proof. But I do not see the one at the stage and this one behind the stage in a picture. Where is the picture we see both of them at the same time? If there's, I'd love to see.

Please don't tell me you think this picture resembles the one ON stage... I don't need a picture of both of them (and there is none) to see that these are two different persons. The fact that you knew what picture I meant tells me you DO think he looks different in this picture.

Okay, need to go now. I will see if I can find strength to show AGAIN why I am sure O2 dude is not Mike when I coma back, but I doubt it. Anyways, it's off topic so please continue this discussion in the O2 subforum.

Yes, it is the same Michael. I explained it by giving a picture example in my first post. I'm pretty sure that people would doubt if these two are the same if I showed these pictures separately. It's just becoz of the lighting.

That's photoshop, not lighting.

I will post my last pictures about this issue, hopefully you will get what I mean. I am not being disrespectful, I am simply saying O2 dude is not Michael.

I have shopped a picture from Mike from 2005 into O2 dude and put it next to O2 dude for comparison. Not the same person. I don't look at details because they can be altered with photoshop, prostetic make-up and stuff like that, I am looking from a distance. Lips/mouth totally don't match, the lines next to the mouth don't match when they smile (Mike has a U-shape, while O2 dude has a V-shape, hope you get what I mean) and Mike's nose is wider and cleft is shorter and rounder.




One might argue that that picture was taken 4 years before the O2 press conference and that people can change in 4 years. I agree, that is totally possible with plastic surgery and all of that and I would totally buy that, if I hadn't seen a picture from Michael only 1 day after the press conference, where he seems to look EXACTLY like he looked in 2005. Round, full lips, short round cleft, instead of a long small cleft, and the wider nose again.




The guy behind the curtain looks like the man from March 6 and 2005 as well, round lips, short cleft. Crappy quality, but still.




O2 dude has painted lips, if you zoom in you can actually see the original shape, which is pretty thin and straight:




Michael on the other hand always had round, full lips, and he had them still on March 6:




So, that's it. That was my last attempt and I will never discuss it again.

:shock:  oookay.....I'M STARTING TO HATE PHOTOS .... they can be edited and they make me confuse...the lights the makeups and all....outta here!

[PureLove]

Souza this is the picture you are talking about two different MJs. People said that this one was at the backstage and the double was at the stage and showed this picture as a proof. But I do not see the one at the stage and this one behind the stage in a picture. Where is the picture we see both of them at the same time? If there's, I'd love to see.

Please don't tell me you think this picture resembles the one ON stage... I don't need a picture of both of them (and there is none) to see that these are two different persons. The fact that you knew what picture I meant tells me you DO think he looks different in this picture.

Okay, need to go now. I will see if I can find strength to show AGAIN why I am sure O2 dude is not Mike when I coma back, but I doubt it. Anyways, it's off topic so please continue this discussion in the O2 subforum.

Yes, it is the same Michael. I explained it by giving a picture example in my first post. I'm pretty sure that people would doubt if these two are the same if I showed these pictures separately. It's just becoz of the lighting.

That's photoshop, not lighting.

I will post my last pictures about this issue, hopefully you will get what I mean. I am not being disrespectful, I am simply saying O2 dude is not Michael.

I have shopped a picture from Mike from 2005 into O2 dude and put it next to O2 dude for comparison. Not the same person. I don't look at details because they can be altered with photoshop, prostetic make-up and stuff like that, I am looking from a distance. Lips/mouth totally don't match, the lines next to the mouth don't match when they smile (Mike has a U-shape, while O2 dude has a V-shape, hope you get what I mean) and Mike's nose is wider and cleft is shorter and rounder.




One might argue that that picture was taken 4 years before the O2 press conference and that people can change in 4 years. I agree, that is totally possible with plastic surgery and all of that and I would totally buy that, if I hadn't seen a picture from Michael only 1 day after the press conference, where he seems to look EXACTLY like he looked in 2005. Round, full lips, short round cleft, instead of a long small cleft, and the wider nose again.




The guy behind the curtain looks like the man from March 6 and 2005 as well, round lips, short cleft. Crappy quality, but still.




O2 dude has painted lips, if you zoom in you can actually see the original shape, which is pretty thin and straight:




Michael on the other hand always had round, full lips, and he had them still on March 6:




So, that's it. That was my last attempt and I will never discuss it again.

I gave lighting to that picture in photoshop Souza, so it is lighting! I didn't play with the face features. Any of us look the same in every single photo or shoot. I have pictures of myself that people do not believe it is me. :lol: And all of your pictures made me believe more that all of those are Michael.  

[Guest]

Yep. All Michael. Any fan can see it.

[~Souza~]

PureLove, it is fine by me. To you it's all Michael, to me O2 dude is clearly a double. But you did not light up the pics, they were posted like that on MJJpictures. It's not lighting, it's brightness. Totally different because it doesn't create shadows.

@1guest, if you believe Mike is alive and will never come back, then fine. Go back to your life and have peace with that. Non-believers will not see anything, not even if the FACTS are rubbed into their faces. Sweet hoaxers have tried, not so sweet hoaxers have tried, pictures, videos, documents, nothing helps. And if they don't want to see it, then fine by me. The keep screaming Murray is a murderer while there wasn't even a crime commited. They are condemning Murray like the media and part of the public condemned Mike.

And like PureLove said, do not twist words. We KNOW he is alive, for many reasons, we do not KNOW details about the hoax.

You are reminding me more and more of some former members, they had the same negative and "You poor believers, I know better and you are all pathetic for staying here" attitude. Why are you here? What exactly are you challenging? You are targetting peoples feelings, other than coming up with back up for your claims. That's not how it works in here. If you want to convince people of your claims, then back it up with a good story, and not some psychological chat. "Any fan can see it"? Again targetting people's feelings and no back up. Luckily I'm not a fan, but my eyes are still pretty good.

[Guest]

Are you sure this answer was for me? What did i do?

[~Souza~]

Are you sure this answer was for me? What did i do?

Oh, don't pretend as if you're not smart enough to know that yourself.

[PureLove]

PureLove, it is fine by me. To you it's all Michael, to me O2 dude is clearly a double. But you did not light up the pics, they were posted like that on MJJpictures. It's not lighting, it's brightness. Totally different because it doesn't create shadows.

Brightness is lighting the picture. It's been a long time but I do remember I lightened that picture on the right. It is so fine with me too, anyone can think anything. I do not attempt to change people's minds. I stated my opinion and asked from people to be polite to him even if they do not think he's Michael himself. That's what I care for. If I wanted to discuss the issue, I would be on the double thread. That is the same Michael that I've been looking at and loving for the last 25 years.

[Guest]

If that answer was for me, i will be polite and i will reply.

@1guest, if you believe Mike is alive and will never come back, then fine. Go back to your life and have peace with that.
- I am in peace already because i am not waiting for anything. I'm just happy he is alive.

- Non-believers will not see anything, not even if the FACTS are rubbed into their faces. Sweet hoaxers have tried, not so sweet hoaxers have tried, pictures, videos, documents, nothing helps. And if they don't want to see it, then fine by me. The keep screaming Murray is a murderer while there wasn't even a crime commited. They are condemning Murray like the media and part of the public condemned Mike.
-That's their problem. Just like people who don't believe in God. I couldn't care less. Everyone is a free spirit. I don't see why should we convert non-believers. This is not a sect.

-And like PureLove said, do not twist words. We KNOW he is alive, for many reasons, we do not KNOW details about the hoax.
Thank you for clearing that.

You are reminding me more and more of some former members, they had the same negative and "You poor believers, I know better and you are all pathetic for staying here" attitude. Why are you here?
-Because i am a human being with an internet connection, willing to have social conversations about a topic that i love: MJ.

What exactly are you challenging?
-I don't have an agenda, i am just a guest on a forum.

You are targetting peoples feelings, other than coming up with back up for your claims. That's not how it works in here.
-What claims?

If you want to convince people of your claims, then back it up with a good story, and not some psychological chat.
-What claims?

"Any fan can see it"? Again targetting people's feelings and no back up. Luckily I'm not a fan, but my eyes are still pretty good.
-Targetting people's feelings? Now you're being sensitive? What about the freaky clown smile that O2 dude had?

[~Souza~]

If that answer was for me, i will be polite and i will reply.

@1guest, if you believe Mike is alive and will never come back, then fine. Go back to your life and have peace with that.
- I am in peace already because i am not waiting for anything. I'm just happy he is alive.

- Non-believers will not see anything, not even if the FACTS are rubbed into their faces. Sweet hoaxers have tried, not so sweet hoaxers have tried, pictures, videos, documents, nothing helps. And if they don't want to see it, then fine by me. The keep screaming Murray is a murderer while there wasn't even a crime commited. They are condemning Murray like the media and part of the public condemned Mike.
-That's their problem. Just like people who don't believe in God. I couldn't care less. Everyone is a free spirit. I don't see why should we convert non-believers. This is not a sect.

-And like PureLove said, do not twist words. We KNOW he is alive, for many reasons, we do not KNOW details about the hoax.
Thank you for clearing that.

You are reminding me more and more of some former members, they had the same negative and "You poor believers, I know better and you are all pathetic for staying here" attitude. Why are you here?
-Because i am a human being with an internet connection, willing to have social conversations about a topic that i love: MJ.

What exactly are you challenging?
-I don't have an agenda, i am just a guest on a forum.

You are targetting peoples feelings, other than coming up with back up for your claims. That's not how it works in here.
-What claims?

If you want to convince people of your claims, then back it up with a good story, and not some psychological chat.
-What claims?

"Any fan can see it"? Again targetting people's feelings and no back up. Luckily I'm not a fan, but my eyes are still pretty good.
-Targetting people's feelings? Now you're being sensitive? What about the freaky clown smile that O2 dude had?

I never claimed to be sensitive, because I am not. There is not a single post on this forum from me stating that I'm a sensitive person. Actually, I have never said anything at all about my characteristics because none of that is important on here.

O2 dude has a snarky smile, yes. That is my opinion and I have the right to voice that opinion. Snarky means: sarcastic, impertinent, or irreverent in tone or manner. Next time I will say that I think he has a sarcastic grin, any better? Anyways, not the same mouth as the MJ we see a day later. If anyone thinks different about that, fine by me.

I am talking about your claims that Michael is not coming back, we are waiting for nothing and that the clues found in the past 2 years are BS. It's fine to think so, but if you post it, you should back up your claims. Same as with the O2 dude remark towards me, "any fan could see that" is not backing up your claim that the guy on stage is Michael, it's based on emotions. I posted pictures, PureLove posted pictures, you are simply saying that if you say that O2 dude is not Michael, that you are not a fan. Like I said, I am NOT a fan, so I couldn't care less, but there are also people on here thinking the same who ARE fans. Who are YOU to say they are not real fans? Give me a break. They could say the same to you.

So anyone who wants the last word on this, go ahead. I have better things to do than discussing stuff like this again. I don't like to repeat myself.

[all4loveandbelieve]

Souza this is the picture you are talking about two different MJs. People said that this one was at the backstage and the double was at the stage and showed this picture as a proof. But I do not see the one at the stage and this one behind the stage in a picture. Where is the picture we see both of them at the same time? If there's, I'd love to see.

Please don't tell me you think this picture resembles the one ON stage... I don't need a picture of both of them (and there is none) to see that these are two different persons. The fact that you knew what picture I meant tells me you DO think he looks different in this picture.

Okay, need to go now. I will see if I can find strength to show AGAIN why I am sure O2 dude is not Mike when I coma back, but I doubt it. Anyways, it's off topic so please continue this discussion in the O2 subforum.

Yes, it is the same Michael. I explained it by giving a picture example in my first post. I'm pretty sure that people would doubt if these two are the same if I showed these pictures separately. It's just becoz of the lighting.

That's photoshop, not lighting.

I will post my last pictures about this issue, hopefully you will get what I mean. I am not being disrespectful, I am simply saying O2 dude is not Michael.

I have shopped a picture from Mike from 2005 into O2 dude and put it next to O2 dude for comparison. Not the same person. I don't look at details because they can be altered with photoshop, prostetic make-up and stuff like that, I am looking from a distance. Lips/mouth totally don't match, the lines next to the mouth don't match when they smile (Mike has a U-shape, while O2 dude has a V-shape, hope you get what I mean) and Mike's nose is wider and cleft is shorter and rounder.




One might argue that that picture was taken 4 years before the O2 press conference and that people can change in 4 years. I agree, that is totally possible with plastic surgery and all of that and I would totally buy that, if I hadn't seen a picture from Michael only 1 day after the press conference, where he seems to look EXACTLY like he looked in 2005. Round, full lips, short round cleft, instead of a long small cleft, and the wider nose again.




The guy behind the curtain looks like the man from March 6 and 2005 as well, round lips, short cleft. Crappy quality, but still.




O2 dude has painted lips, if you zoom in you can actually see the original shape, which is pretty thin and straight:




Michael on the other hand always had round, full lips, and he had them still on March 6:




So, that's it. That was my last attempt and I will never discuss it again.

:shock:  oookay.....I'M STARTING TO HATE PHOTOS .... they can be edited and they make me confuse...the lights the makeups and all....outta here!

Explain me how these pictures of Michael resembles themselves. That is not the same Michael. Look at the picture at your right, look at the nose, just the nose can tell you it is not the same person. The face is totally different, and it is not by lighting.

[Guest]

In my opinion he will never come back because it makes no sense to pull this entire ellaborated risky delicate hoax (especially for his family), to make everyone lie, your children your family, to make them lose all their respect and credibility, to make them look like freaks and feed tabloids with other hateful titles, to put them through a hell where haters will damn him and his family like the Jacksons weren't a target for bad mouths enough. I dont see why he would stay for so long far away from his children, this is the best reason for me to understand that what he did was not an entertainment reality show, not a movie, not a planned thing. I don't understand how his comeback would accomplish without legal issues for him, family, doctors, cornoer, witnesses, and fake trials (in case it's fake. if it's not fake then it's even worse) . If all is just legal and no one's corrupted with FBI involved then i dont get Murray's part. Is FBI part of the entertainment show too? Does not make sense, FBI doesn't support you in entertainemnt. If he was helped by FBI to escape from i dont know, threatnings, and it's all legal with the help of FBI then again what 's Murray's part in this and what's this trial about. Isnt FBI smarter than this? Or Michael? Dont they know how to pull a hoax without a trial? The trial part shouts for me one big conclusion: CORRUPTION. The hoax is not as clean in this case. If it was, there would have been no trial. WHAT FOR? Again, i want to make myself as clear as possible: this is my opinion and i cannot state it better than that because i never claimed i know, so i cannot back it up with a "story". I have no evidence, you dont have either. We just assume. And all i can do is use my logic.
On the other hand, i also thought about the BAM. Ok, let's assume it's so and i ignore all my cons against BAM. Ok so he BAMS. What for? To prove what?
-revenge on a corrupted system? What for? Justice was done in his case. The accused was found: NOT GUILTY.
-expose illuminati,change the world, save the world? and if he expose them then what happens? do you think the whole world is Michael's fan? We all love him on this forum and we dont choose to spend time with haters, but that doesnt mean there are not everywhere outside. And they are not just a small group. And even if not haters, do you think everyone is touched by Michael's spirit or willing to listen to his message? It's their loss, but no. Think about that, not even a tragedy, a small apocalypse like Japan doesn wake us up.
-to make the greatest reality show ever. I could buy that. But not with the sacrifice children, family and fans waiting fot this is it concerts. I am sure he would have found other ways, less painful ways for his children.
So before asking why wouldn't he come back, we should ask why would he? What for? What could have determined Michael to stay away from his children for so long? What's more important than his children?

[all4loveandbelieve]

Now you see the bottom lips go crooked, well that is Michael.

[~Souza~]

Now that wasn't so difficult? Was it?

In my opinion he will never come back because it makes no sense to pull this entire ellaborated risky delicate hoax (especially for his family), to make everyone lie, your children your family, to make them lose all their respect and credibility, to make them look like freaks and feed tabloids with other hateful titles, to put them through a hell where haters will damn him and his family like the Jacksons weren't a target for bad mouths enough.

Does it make sense to you to pull off this hoax with all the shit attached to it (cancelled tour, funeral partly on a movie set, a staged trial etc,) if he would just go chillin' on an island? If he would stay away? Nah, that makes no sense at all. He would have crashed with a plane or something else and he would have released a picture of him dead in a coffin, or at the autopsy table, and no one (or at least almost no one) would have had doubts about his death. He also could just have retired, he wasn't much in the public eye anyway for years already. He could have called Hoefflin, dyed his hair blond and head off to nowhereland. He could have taken the kids with him, because it was only  until very shortly before June 25 he decided to show their faces. Had he not done that, he could have easily be my neighbour without me ever knowing who he was. Showing the kids faces means he can't live somewhere quietly with them. Why would he do that if he wasn't planning on returning? And people have made fun of the Jacksons for ages, they can take it just a little longer, knowing there won't be much to laugh at once the truth prevails.

I dont see why he would stay for so long far away from his children, this is the best reason for me to understand that what he did was not an entertainment reality show, not a movie, not a planned thing.

First of all, we don't even know he really is far away from his chilren, but IF he is, even more reason to return. Like stated above, the whole world saw their faces, they will be recognized for the rest of their lives. Do you think he will stay in hiding and see them in secret with the risk of being caught? Again, it would have made much more sense if he had not shown their faces, if he was planning to hoax his death and never return.

I don't understand how his comeback would accomplish without legal issues for him, family, doctors, cornoer, witnesses, and fake trials (in case it's fake. if it's not fake then it's even worse) . If all is just legal and no one's corrupted with FBI involved then i dont get Murray's part. Is FBI part of the entertainment show too? Does not make sense, FBI doesn't support you in entertainemnt. If he was helped by FBI to escape from i dont know, threatnings, and it's all legal with the help of FBI then again what 's Murray's part in this and what's this trial about. Isnt FBI smarter than this? Or Michael? Dont they know how to pull a hoax without a trial? The trial part shouts for me one big conclusion: CORRUPTION. The hoax is not as clean in this case. If it was, there would have been no trial. WHAT FOR?

If this is a sting operation, there is a HUGE possibility that it started years and years ago. Pepsi triggered his drug addiction? Or did it make him so terribly mad that he was determined to get those responsible? Maybe the deal with the FBI is that he would go 'undercover' as Michael Jackson the drug addict, to expose corruption in medical world and the music industry. He made himself look like a perfect victim for snakes. He surrounded himself with lots of people he shouldn't have surrounded himself with. I never understood that, but who says that he didn't do that on purpose, to get information? I never believed any of the drug stories, nor did I ever believe he was broke. All smoke and mirrors if you ask me to catch the big fish. In return the FBI might help him with this hoax, which is probably part of the operation as well, but apart from it, it is his chance to show the world what an artist he is and how he can beat his own, unbeatable record. Sting operation or not, he's still an artist and an entertainer.
I never had to deal with stuff like this, so I am only guessing. I do know that such operations do exsist and that civilians are being used as bait and informers.

Again, i want to make myself as clear as possible: this is my opinion and i cannot state it better than that because i never claimed i know, so i cannot back it up with a "story". I have no evidence, you dont have either. We just assume. And all i can do is use my logic.
On the other hand, i also thought about the BAM. Ok, let's assume it's so and i ignore all my cons against BAM. Ok so he BAMS. What for? To prove what?

-revenge on a corrupted system? What for? Justice was done in his case. The accused was found: NOT GUILTY.

By the jury, yes. But the public and the media? Acquitted maybe, but just do a search on the internet. You really don't want to feed the ignorant souls that still say he's a pedophile and a child molester. The system did him justice, the media took him down. He could have been acquitted 10 more times, the damage was done in 1993 and they gave him the final shot in 2005. Biased media and media that lies is what is destroying our civilization and our world. They do not only damage the images of celebrities, they also cover up the lies of the government.

-expose illuminati,change the world, save the world? and if he expose them then what happens? do you think the whole world is Michael's fan? We all love him on this forum and we dont choose to spend time with haters, but that doesnt mean there are not everywhere outside. And they are not just a small group. And even if not haters, do you think everyone is touched by Michael's spirit or willing to listen to his message? It's their loss, but no. Think about that, not even a tragedy, a small apocalypse like Japan doesn wake us up.

Michael has always believed he was on this earth for a reason, he has a mission and yes, I believe he is right. If there is ANYONE on this planet capable of waking up the masses, it's Michael Jackson. I am not a fan, and it took me a few months before I understood it all, but I listened and I questioned. I know many many people, and of all those people, I have only heard one person say that he was a pedophile and a child molestor and that he hated him. I didn't even start on that person, because there was no use. 2% haters? 48% fans and 50% people like me, who are not fans per se but willing to listen and question? A friend of mine told me months ago that I was crazy. I challenged him and gave him homework every week. Movies, articles, documentaries. He became my personal project. He doesn't think I'm so crazy now. He doesn't believe anything I say and that's good. He reads up and gets back at me to challenge me. Last time I saw him he told me: "I don't believe anything anymore they say on TV, I am reading up on everything they are reporting and some shit doesn't make sense at all." Mission accomplished. It will take a while before the rest of the world will accept as well, even those who love him to death. But he will sure be able to make a huge start in a turn this world needs so bad, before it can't be reversed. And the shock-factor will help too, plus the involvement of the FBI in all this. Corruption, greed for money and power is what will end this world, way before mother nature kills herself. The world will keep turning, with or without us. Only we can make sure we will stay a part of it, and only he can reach that many people at once, with a shock factor like this.

-to make the greatest reality show ever. I could buy that. But not with the sacrifice children, family and fans waiting fot this is it concerts. I am sure he would have found other ways, less painful ways for his children.
So before asking why wouldn't he come back, we should ask why would he? What for? What could have determined Michael to stay away from his children for so long? What's more important than his children?

As for the children, see what I wrote above. I do not see the kids in pain at all, they look happy. The kids are most likely very much involved and play their part. Maybe he sees them on a regular basis, maybe not. We don't know. All I know is that those kids look happy and seem to be doing a great job. And his children ARE important to him, that is exactly why he is doing this.

[GINAFELICIA]

It's funny how people can prove totally opposite points with resonable arguments.

Both of you seem to be right.

Yet in Michael's case I have no doubt that if he is alive he will be back.
I don't have time or patience or the best english knowledges to explain my point, plus my emotions often take over my mind, but I am very sure that Michael won't do things in Elvis' way, to just dissapear.

[bec]

I think his track record of trying to one-up the competition is another argument for why MJ won't pull an Elvis. Simple fact, Death-Hoax-No-Come-Back has already been done. It's nothing new, or innovative at all. If anything it's tired and cliche', thank you Tupac fans.

"Just like Elvis"... no no no, Better then Elvis! That's how MJ does things. Since when has MJ ever been "just like" anyone?

You can't ignore a person's track record of behavior when trying to form a prediction of how they might act in the future. No good investigator would do so.

I know Michael Jackson is still alive. I believe very strongly that he plans to come back.