Sony is Behind the Hoax and MJ is Dead

[Datroot]

Now, you could also apply that logic to MJ himself - if he needed to make money he only had 'to die' - he didn't need a crazy hoax.

That's why I didn't ever think he would return.  He needed to die to save his own life (if shady peeps were after him) and keep the public interested in him for the future.  He did need a hoax to be able to carry on his work. 

[RememberHisTime]

Bec I just went back and re-read your original post. Let's entertain the idea that Sony is indeed behind the hoax. They have been involved with MJ for many years but they couldn't have seen 25/06/09 coming. Sure, once they acquired the rights to TII from AEG they could have started orchestrating clues and hints for believers, but PRIOR TO THAT what could have been their involvement with the hoax?

So what evidence do we have that Michael is alive, going back to the events of D-Day up until Sony's purchase of rights to TII in August 2009?

[bec]

Now, you could also apply that logic to MJ himself - if he needed to make money he only had 'to die' - he didn't need a crazy hoax.

That's why I didn't ever think he would return.  He needed to die to save his own life (if shady peeps were after him) and keep the public interested in him for the future.  He did need a hoax to be able to carry on his work. 

Interesting point, Datroot. Does anyone want to take this one?

Bec I just went back and re-read your original post. Let's entertain the idea that Sony is indeed behind the hoax. They have been involved with MJ for many years but they couldn't have seen 25/06/09 coming. Sure, once they acquired the rights to TII from AEG they could have started orchestrating clues and hints for believers, but PRIOR TO THAT what could have been their involvement with the hoax?

So what evidence do we have that Michael is alive, going back to the events of D-Day up until Sony's purchase of rights to TII in August 2009?

Excellent question. Anyone want to take up RememberHisTime's challenge?

Meanwhile, does anyone have a serious contest for the debunking of any of the numbered points on "Deactivated"s list? Scorpionchick?

[curls]

Now, you could also apply that logic to MJ himself - if he needed to make money he only had 'to die' - he didn't need a crazy hoax.

That's why I didn't ever think he would return.  He needed to die to save his own life (if shady peeps were after him) and keep the public interested in him for the future.  He did need a hoax to be able to carry on his work. 

Interesting point, Datroot. Does anyone want to take this one?

At the risk of boring everyone by repeating myself yet again, and because it was my comment that prompted Datroot's post, I'll respond to this.

If "he needed to die to save his own life (if shady peeps were after him)" he would have chosen a normal, convincing, no questions asked, natural death. (Also the reason why this isn't murder) Buried within a couple of weeks, we would all believe he'd died, we wouldn't have been here for 4 years discussing his death, and more importantly in that scenario, the 'shady peeps' would also believe he'd died. If we have been here for 4 years discussing his death, you can bet your life the 'shady peeps' have been also. So he would gain nothing by dying the way he did, he would still be hiding from and avoiding his enemies for the rest of his life. I agree, no coming back from that.

Re 'keeping the public interested in him', again, did he need a hoax? I maintain he only had to die, he only had to be a dead legend to resurrect interest and $ through release and re-release of music and films. This is what we have seen and continue to see happen. Therefore he didn't need a hoax to carry on his work if music and film such as the public has seen and continue to see, is what his work is all about. He can quietly, invisibly carry on with this type of work indefinitely through 'The Estate'. Again, no come back needed.

Which leads to the main point of what I have to say.  Why did he have such a questionable death, the fundamental reason for speculation about a hoax? It wasn't for money. It wasn't to escape his enemies. It wasn't murder.

I say it was, in the words of TII, 'for the fans...'. The Hoax IS his work. And for it to be acknowledged and recognised there has to be a come back (at best) or full revelation (at least).

[Do]

Quote Curls:

'Why did he have such a questionable death'

Marilyn Monroe, Kurt Cobain, Whitney Houston, Natalie Wood, Tupac Shakur, Brian Jones, Anne Nicole Smith and many more died a questionable death, but are dead nevertheless. True, none of them had so many inconsistenties as Michael's 'death', but we never can be 100% sure WHO fed those inconsistenties to us and for WHAT reason. Jermaine announced his death, there was a memorial, funeral, interviews, books, interviews from the family, all confirming that he had died and it was because of foul play (thus the trials).

For the fans, this hoax IS his work...

After almost 4,5 years, I begin to wonder just WHAT his main goal for this hoax is?? To make sure how easily people can be fooled and duped? Do we really believe he wants to alter us in suspicious human beings, who can not trust anyone and anything around them? What a world that would be...I admit I learned a whole lot, but with the consequence that I'm to the point that I see a conspiracy in almost everything. Or is this just me?

Quote from RemeberHisTime:

'They couldn't have seen 25/06/09 coming'

If Sony/AEG are the backgroundplayers (like Latoya said in interviews that there were backgroundplayers and she knew who they were), then YES, they could have seen this coming, knowing that the state Michael was in (voluntary or forced), they figured he couldn't do the concerts and all the money involved would fly out of the window. A sick Michael wouldn't produce money anymore, a dead Michael would. So realising this, they COULD have planned 25/06/09 and that could be THE REASON WHY the security-tapes are missing/being erased and why everything went how it went that fatal day.

The only question I have is: WAS Michael taking any drugs or not (many conflicting statements). Because I CAN NOT see WHY Michael would want HIS hoax starting with such a death, but I CAN see why any backgroundplayer would, like a final stab to Michael.

[curls]

Perhaps I should expand a bit on my use of the word 'questionable'.  Backtrack to pre-death date, to that '6 months to live' article, to March 2009 and the O2 announcement. A surprise I think, to most, if not all. That got MJ back into the forefront of the public's mind. How would he be as a 50 year old performer?  Fast forward a couple of months and concert starting dates were being put back. Questions began, will he, won't he, ever take to the stage, will the concerts ever happen?  He dies. My own personal first reaction? Wow, that's convenient, now he won't have to do the concerts! Drama, setting the scene, questions, doubt, and all that's before we even begin to hear how he died...

I get what you're saying Do about others who have died, and people have even said to me, Oh, it's Michael Jackson - he couldn't even die without a fuss! But you're heading down the 'murder' route and I'm not going there without some evidence, for reasons I've already given many times.

Can I also just clarify my quote that you misquoted in the second part of your post!  Probably a misunderstanding with language, no worries! I did not say or mean to say 'for the fans this hoax IS his work', emphasis there being on it being just fan opinion. I meant the hoax is intended 'for the fans...', quoting the intro to TII. Full stop. The Hoax IS his work (now).

[Do]

Perhaps I should expand a bit on my use of the word 'questionable'.  Backtrack to pre-death date, to that '6 months to live' article, to March 2009 and the O2 announcement. A surprise I think, to most, if not all. That got MJ back into the forefront of the public's mind. How would he be as a 50 year old performer?  Fast forward a couple of months and concert starting dates were being put back. Questions began, will he, won't he, ever take to the stage, will the concerts ever happen?  He dies. My own personal first reaction? Wow, that's convenient, now he won't have to do the concerts! Drama, setting the scene, questions, doubt, and all that's before we even begin to hear how he died...

I get what you're saying Do about others who have died, and people have even said to me, Oh, it's Michael Jackson - he couldn't even die without a fuss! But you're heading down the 'murder' route and I'm not going there without some evidence, for reasons I've already given many times.

Can I also just clarify my quote that you misquoted in the second part of your post!  Probably a misunderstanding with language, no worries! I did not say or mean to say 'for the fans this hoax IS his work', emphasis there being on it being just fan opinion. I meant the hoax is intended 'for the fans...', quoting the intro to TII. Full stop. The Hoax IS his work (now).

Hi Curls, sorry, my fault, yes I quoted you in the wrong way but I did get what you were saying about 'for the fans' being said by Michael in TII. Again, sorry!
But it won't change the questions in my head about what would be his main reason for this hoax/work/death. Everything that I thought it would be in the beginning of the hoax (vindication, get back to the media, getting attention about prescripted drugs, hiding for shady people etc., is almost not making sense to me anymore.

That 'six months to live' report came from a shady writer who also wrote that MJ surely was gay and was hitting on him too...I mean....WHAT? Ofcourse Michael could have planted that story but it also could be purely coincidental and slander.
Jermaine wrote that Michael behaved strange (there were reports that he had been drinking) at the O2 announcement because he grieved over one of his musicians who had died that day. The pushing back of concert dates could also have been an indication that Michael wasn't feeling well nor ready to go.
You see, today there is to every 'pro' hoax, a 'con' hoax for me because my faith in a comeback is deteriorating, how much I hate to admit it.

Yes, maybe I am heading down the 'dead' or perhaps the 'murder' route because in my eyes there is evidence pointing to it, like the CM trial, the AEG trial, the suicide attempt, the memorial, the tributes, I can go on and on but we weren't willing to accept them as possibly real because of pumpkins, elephants, stars etc and I admit that these things were so strange but could also be a cover up by 'the wrong ones' to keep us guessing. I mean, if Michael can put a pumpkin in a courtroom, so can 'the wrong ones'. I would be sooooo glad if I'm totally wrong, and I will be not ashamed to admit that I was wrong, I would LOVE to.

[sweetsunsetwithMJ]

Quote Curls:

If Sony/AEG are the backgroundplayers (like Latoya said in interviews that there were backgroundplayers and she knew who they were), then YES, they could have seen this coming, knowing that the state Michael was in (voluntary or forced), they figured he couldn't do the concerts and all the money involved would fly out of the window. A sick Michael wouldn't produce money anymore, a dead Michael would. So realising this, they COULD have planned 25/06/09 and that could be THE REASON WHY the security-tapes are missing/being erased and why everything went how it went that fatal day.

But in this case Michael would be dead or alive??

[Do]

Quote Curls:

If Sony/AEG are the backgroundplayers (like Latoya said in interviews that there were backgroundplayers and she knew who they were), then YES, they could have seen this coming, knowing that the state Michael was in (voluntary or forced), they figured he couldn't do the concerts and all the money involved would fly out of the window. A sick Michael wouldn't produce money anymore, a dead Michael would. So realising this, they COULD have planned 25/06/09 and that could be THE REASON WHY the security-tapes are missing/being erased and why everything went how it went that fatal day.

But in this case Michael would be dead or alive??

Hey Sweet, it was my quote, not Curls  :icon_e_smile:
But you have a point here. Could still be both options I guess, although I then wonder if the 'alive' option is voluntary on Michael's part (if Sony is in on it I mean).

[curls]

So they're forcing him to go along with their hoax?? Is this what you're saying?

[Do]

So they're forcing him to go along with their hoax?? Is this what you're saying?

I keep vacillating on that. I'm afraid that IF this is Sony's hoax, Michael is not here with us anymore.
But if Michael really was sick and drugged (maybe he was drugged without his knowledgde, like in his food -he didn't want to eat anymore, so maybe he was also aware of that possibility-) to the point that everything was becoming to much for him to bear and to the point he couldn't make wise decisions anymore, and was threatened with his debts and loans and to give up his catalog, yes, maybe he is involuntary taking part in something he doesn't want to but was necessary to meet Sony's demands. And maybe Sony has something upcoming for us.....the resurrection of Michael Jackson. The new messiah, the leader of the new world, the miracle comeback we are waiting for?
Curls, I don't know anymore.....

[sweetsunsetwithMJ]

So they're forcing him to go along with their hoax?? Is this what you're saying?

I keep vacillating on that. I'm afraid that IF this is Sony's hoax, Michael is not here with us anymore.
But if Michael really was sick and drugged (maybe he was drugged without his knowledgde, like in his food -he didn't want to eat anymore, so maybe he was also aware of that possibility-) to the point that everything was becoming to much for him to bear and to the point he couldn't make wise decisions anymore, and was threatened with his debts and loans and to give up his catalog, yes, maybe he is involuntary taking part in something he doesn't want to but was necessary to meet Sony's demands. And maybe Sony has something upcoming for us.....the resurrection of Michael Jackson. The new messiah, the leader of the new world, the miracle comeback we are waiting for?
Curls, I don't know anymore.....

LOL Do welcome to the Club!!

[Do]

And maybe Sony has something upcoming for us.....the resurrection of Michael Jackson. The new messiah, the leader of the new world, the miracle comeback we are waiting for?

Subsequent to this, do you know what is being said on the number 777, what we believed was a divine number, worn by Michael many times?

Antichrist
A being with pure intentions. Carries the name of the Antichrist for Christ and God are the ones that must be defeated. The Antichrist will not bring deception on to the Earth and Heavens, but it is foretold that He shall bring a great change to the world. He fights for peace, justice, and knowledge, and under the word and banner of Lord Satan, he shall bring true peace to the world that has been ruled under a God that brings chaos to our lives. He has not yet come, but He walks among the Earth, waiting for his time to rise to be your savior. His number is not 666, for this is Satan's number which he will inscribe onto his son's right hand. But the true number of the Antichrist will be 777.

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So there is division about the meaning of the number 777. Could they have been using Michael for that all along?
(Not that I believe Michael is the Anticrist, and I certainly don't believe Michael would go along with that idea, on the contrary).

[RememberHisTime]

Quote from RemeberHisTime:

'They couldn't have seen 25/06/09 coming'

If Sony/AEG are the backgroundplayers (like Latoya said in interviews that there were backgroundplayers and she knew who they were), then YES, they could have seen this coming, knowing that the state Michael was in (voluntary or forced), they figured he couldn't do the concerts and all the money involved would fly out of the window. A sick Michael wouldn't produce money anymore, a dead Michael would. So realising this, they COULD have planned 25/06/09 and that could be THE REASON WHY the security-tapes are missing/being erased and why everything went how it went that fatal day.

I was thinking that if Sony is really behind the hoax, then their involvement wouldn't have started until August 2009 when they bought the rights to release TII. Therefore they couldn't have planted the other clues prior to that. What about the ambulance? The missing security camera footage? The garbage bags? MJ sitting up in the helicopter? The switched lyrics of "Smile" at the memorial, the use of the photo from Liberian Girl, "I'm alive and I'm here forever," Paris's interjection, the green screen at the funeral, and not to mention no name on the tomb??? Sony couldn't have been responsible for all that hoaxy stuff way back when. And I doubt AEG would have planned all that stuff, seeing as they sold their rights afterward, and we are saying for the sake of argument that Sony is currently orchestrating the hoax for financial benefit. I don't think that's clear at all but it makes sense in my head!

[curls]

Ah, come on now guys - it's one thing to objectively reassess facts and genuine evidence and be prepared for them to lead to a possible different conclusion, but we should avoid employing over active imaginations and inventing new and totally unsupported scenarios.

What has happened to cause minds to be changed and doubts to creep in? No matter how much disruption/unease/confusion may have been experienced in hoaxland recently (which I imagine is at the root of this), the fundamentals, uncomplicated by fans, forums, blogs etc still remain, and continue to point squarely at this being MJ's hoax.