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Re: Important information for all members
September 05, 2013, 11:26:52 AM
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Souza, did I miss something here? If I did please let me know otherwise I don't understand all the secrecy and censorship?  I understand about keeping the forum clean and free of trolls, but at the same time we are here to investigate, ask questions and find out what the truth is.  I'm not siding with anyone, just want to understand and get to the truth which seems to be getting further away from us every day.........

The only posts removed were by me that involved a banned members thoughts being relayed here. Banned members have no voice here, if they were allowed to have one they wouldn't be banned in the first place. The only other posts removed, or that were edited, were posts linking to a forum run by banned members who have their own agenda to hate on this forum.

Continued from my first post above.  With my post from yesterday, I was only referring to Chappie's post that was deleted and no one else's.  Chappie was a moderator here, I don't know him and I don't even know if he was banned.  But in his post, he was not posting any links to any other forums and like I said, he was a moderator so again I didn't know that he was banned.  I am just trying to get to the truth here like every other member.  I don't have a twitter account, never will.  I don't know of any other forums about Front, I am only a member here and I will not become a member anywhere else.
Chappie mentioned in his post, that is now deleted, that he knew and respected both Souza and Mo and was asking us to not trust and take people's word for something that we have no proof of.  So you understand my confusion about his post being deleted.  As Souza has said we are here to investigate in order to get to the truth and not be a part of manipulation of the truth. 


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iLoveyoumore

Re: Important information for all members
September 05, 2013, 11:54:47 AM
I have feeling this new 'back' here will soon become another Front.  :icon_e_confused:
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"I'm invincible, I've been through it all. You can't hurt me. Knock me down, I get back up." –Michael Jackson

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~Souza~

Re: Important information for all members
September 05, 2013, 12:04:28 PM
No new Front on my watch.
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curls

Re: Important information for all members
September 05, 2013, 12:28:00 PM
@Faithad, I think I can clear up your confusion over deleted posts.  I think (and he will obviously correct me if I'm wrong) that SEHF was referring to a post of mine which contained a link to Mo's post on PureLove's forum, and a post that followed a few minutes later (I can't remember who from) which included Mo's actual post.

Have to admit to being a bit 'miffed' to begin with that my post had gone - I'm all for openness and balance, but respect that Souza and SEHF can and should do whatever they need to, to keep their forum as they want it, just as others are free to do what they like with their forums. (Not sure how they stand though with copying huge chunks of this forum!)
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Re: Important information for all members
September 05, 2013, 12:39:44 PM
Curls, thanks for your reply, but no, the post I'm referring to had nothing to do with your post.  It was posted by Chappie and it did not contain any links to any other forums.  It did not include anyone else's posts either.  That's why I mentioned secrecy and censorship in my previous post. I understand about keeping the forum clean and free of trolls, but at the same time we are here to investigate, ask questions and find out what the truth is. 

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iLoveyoumore

Re: Important information for all members
September 05, 2013, 12:42:55 PM
I don't get either what was so wrong with Chappies post it had to be deleted.
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"I'm invincible, I've been through it all. You can't hurt me. Knock me down, I get back up." –Michael Jackson

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curls

Re: Important information for all members
September 05, 2013, 01:04:17 PM
@Faithad, I know you're talking about Chappie's post, but I had it in my mind that you started this convo with questioning why SEHF mentioned 'links', when Chappies hadn't included any. That's what I was trying to clear up - why SEHF had mentioned links=my post. (I was online when he did it) Sorry, if I got the wrong end of the stick!
Last Edit: September 05, 2013, 01:14:13 PM by curls
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Re: Important information for all members
September 05, 2013, 01:16:36 PM
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I don't get either what was so wrong with Chappies post it had to be deleted.

ILoveyoumore, the only reason this is bothering me too is because I see no reason for the post to be deleted also, unless it was done by mistake, which probably is more than likely.  I don't want to lose my trust and respect in the administrators of this forum since by deleting Chappie's post, I get the message that someone has something to hide, otherwise the post should be left alone for members to read and decide for themselves what the truth is.......

Here is Chappie's post I'm referring to that was deleted.  As you can see there aren't any links to any other forum in this post. Again I don't know Chappie, I just know that he was a moderator here, I'm not agreeing with his post, I just want us to be able to investigate and find out what the truth is about all this openly as this is a forum for the purpose of investigating Michael's death and getting to the truth without any manipulation and censorship...........




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Re: Important information for all members
September 05, 2013, 01:25:27 PM
 :confused: All of the division isn't helping anyone here, everyone should calm down and not intensify this issue. As I've witnessed happening. There is alot of deflection occuring. Hit dogs holler. Whomever started this will reap what they sow. If you plant a troll then trouble will ensue. I feel sorry for SweetSunset but lashing out like that isn't going to solve any problems it just causes more pain. Maybe you should take a break from all of this Sweet,just for a while until you get yourself together. I'm just going to see how all of this plays out.  :icon_question:
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Do

Re: Important information for all members
September 05, 2013, 01:42:25 PM
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I don't get either what was so wrong with Chappies post it had to be deleted.

ILoveyoumore, the only reason this is bothering me too is because I see no reason for the post to be deleted also, unless it was done by mistake, which probably is more than likely.  I don't want to lose my trust and respect in the administrators of this forum since by deleting Chappie's post, I get the message that someone has something to hide, otherwise the post should be left alone for members to read and decide for themselves what the truth is.......

Here is Chappie's post I'm referring to that was deleted.  As you can see there aren't any links to any other forum in this post. Again I don't know Chappie, I just know that he was a moderator here, I'm not agreeing with his post, I just want us to be able to investigate and find out what the truth is about all this openly as this is a forum for the purpose of investigating Michael's death and getting to the truth without any manipulation and censorship...........


Faith, I saw that post too and yes, it was deleted, don't know why. I felt it was only a sincere heartfelt question from Chappie to keep everything clean, especially when no one is 100% sure who is behind Front. Souza admitted that already so also no reason for cencorship. So I'm with you Faith, when posts are deleted, it only makes me suspicious.
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"Three passions, simple but overwhelmingly strong, have governed my life: the longing for love, the search for knowledge, and unbearable pity for the suffering of mankind."
Bertrand Russel

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~Souza~

Re: Important information for all members
September 05, 2013, 01:45:17 PM
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I don't get either what was so wrong with Chappies post it had to be deleted.

ILoveyoumore, the only reason this is bothering me too is because I see no reason for the post to be deleted also, unless it was done by mistake, which probably is more than likely.  I don't want to lose my trust and respect in the administrators of this forum since by deleting Chappie's post, I get the message that someone has something to hide, otherwise the post should be left alone for members to read and decide for themselves what the truth is.......

Here is Chappie's post I'm referring to that was deleted.  As you can see there aren't any links to any other forum in this post. Again I don't know Chappie, I just know that he was a moderator here, I'm not agreeing with his post, I just want us to be able to investigate and find out what the truth is about all this openly as this is a forum for the purpose of investigating Michael's death and getting to the truth without any manipulation and censorship...........

Chappie's post was deleted because Chappie didn't come to me first since she even has my phone number. It is NONE of anyone's business and even Chappie doesn't give a fuck it is gone. I am asking to stop the whining about one stupid post NOW or I am going to lock this thread again. Do you see Chappie whine? NO and it was her post. I talked to Chappie not even too long ago. She and I have no issues, why would anyone else? Stop copying the post here.

On with what this thread is about: FRONT IS A TROLL.

Thank you, next time use the PM button and ask me or SEHF directly.
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blankie

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Re: Important information for all members
September 05, 2013, 02:57:38 PM
Guys,  ... we are here in the place we have chosen....out there are slanders and provocations, We must continue our journey together, without picking them up too...is what they want.  :icon_rolleyes:
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LOVE YOU MORE

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MaryK

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Re: Important information for all members
September 05, 2013, 03:11:56 PM
I have been watching for a while now and I think it´s time that I state my opinion re: the recent events, Front, „Twitter war“, divisiveness in the hoax community and here. I have been told to put my money where my mouth is and that´s what I am doing now.
This is very long, and I realize that everything might be a bit „criss-cross“ and that maybe you will find some mistakes in grammar, syntax or spelling. I´m not a native speaker so, if you find mistakes, please feel free to keep them and please bear with me ;)

So here goes:


I, personally, never believed in Front that much, I kept watching him, like many of us did. The clues and hints were not convincing for me. Also I never liked that he had favorites on this forum, sometimes I even thought that he was too cold, not cordial. With Twitter Front I noticed that he became MUCH more cordial and it did not sit right with me.Yes I admit that often he sounded like a female to me, sissyish even. But that was still ok for me because we all know that in this hoax everyone tries to investigate, find clues and is watching hoax characters that show up here and there. And before anyone is going to accuse me of hypocrisy: Yes, I said that I do not think that Twitter Front is malicious and I did not like that people were after him on Twitter. Yes, I admit it, I did that, and yes I said that. On Twitter. And yes, I have changed my mind.
At one point, not long ago, I noticed that he started to develop what I would call „classic troll behavior“. And that was BEFORE the shit hit the fan after „Back“´s post here.
I saw it and I did not like it and I still don´t. I´ve been in the online world for many many years, also as a mod in other forums that are in no way related to Michael, and I recognize troll behavior when I see it. Of course that is my opinion and if I am wrong, so be it.
To everyone who follows Front and believes in him: That´s ok, I respect your decision. It´s your choice and your right to do so.

BUT

Regardless of who Front is, I don´t understand how people fail to see the bigger picture. They keep saying Souza is jealous because Front left the forum. But Souza "outsourced" him long before he took to Twitter. Because the idolatry and ass kissing (sorry for the explicit language) became rampant. That is when Front decided to try it on Twitter. Pretty clear behavior in my opinion. And Front still linked to the "respected forum" for a long time, until the latest events, all the while whining and complaining about the haters. Too much and to obvious in my opinion. I plead with you to remember this well-known phrase: „Haters make me famous“. Even before the „you know who“ thing, he already started trolling big time, for everyone to see (who wanted to see of course and was able to), to establish a new platform for himself. Lucky coincidence for Front, that PureLove opened a new forum where the world revolves around him. Then, realizing that he´s considered no more than a troll on Souza´s forum now, he started the crusade against her. Openly. On Twitter. I still remember Front´s words on the forum, that he would never talk badly about this forum, or any of the members here. Now he does. And it´s no excuse to say "but Souza started the drama".
So yes, I do get that troll feeling from Front NOW, my opinion is clear.
But I also know and I do agree that we should not jump to conclusions re: who Front is. It does not matter what his/her or even their name is. However we need to find out what is behind the obvious troll behavior and again: I find it very disturbing and unsettling. Does not sit well with me, I feel uncomfortable and I fear that people will get hurt. So if there is somebody out there that is playing with peoples´ minds and hearts and has malicious intents, this person must be held accountable for it.

I will not believe for a minute that Souza or SEHF are behind „Back“ on here. I will not believe for a minute that they are out to wreak revenge. Neither on you know who, nor on PureLove.
I have to say that I understand that people sometimes felt that Souza, was too harsh, to „obscure“ and that they felt she should have communicated more.
I even understand that while this forum was offline with a very dramatic message and PureLove´s forum opened, some people felt the need to join there. Many interactions between members had been moved from here to Twitter anyway and things mostly evolved around Front. So PureLove´s forum was the place to be for various reasons. I understand that too.
One more thing that I admit here is that I, too, did at first not understand why someone who was a „cornerstone“ of the forum once, was suddenly shunned and no longer wanted on here. Yes, I said that on Twitter too.
We have all invited Front in and entertained the thought of him being an insider or even Michael. We discussed about his posts and communicated with him. Whatever our beliefs were, he was allowed in here. That´s a fact. I am also aware and I admit that people have been banned here for speaking up against Front earlier. In the light of recent events it might have been a mistake. However I now understand the problem that Souza started having with his presence here and it´s not morally reprehensible or hypocritical that she changed her opinion. On the contrary: if she feels something is seriously wrong or dangerous for the members here, it´s her duty to inform us and warn us. So that´s ok with me, I respect that and I support that. No matter what the outcome might be in the end. We need clarity.
I don´t know if Front is that person whose name must not be mentioned here anymore. But I do agree that we need to try and find out. Yes, I too feel reluctant to have somebody´s name and picture on here, accusing him of fraud. But I also think we need to be aware of the possibility and investigate and find out. Nobody wants to be fooled and hurt in the end I think.

Re: PureLove and Mariella, I want to say/clarify some things: they were always nothing but nice and respectful towards me when we met again on Twitter after they got banned a while ago. I admit that back in the day when she and Mariella were banned, I said that it was also my opinion that her presence on the forum was no longer wholesome. Neither for her, nor for anyone else here. And I remember that some other members/mods that are now over at PureLove´s forum were very happy to get rid of her and also supported the decision to ban her. If you changed your mind, that´s a good thing and I wish you well. But I do not understand or support your bashing of Souza, the forum and other members here. Why? Didn´t you all call this your home and the people here your friends and family? It´s so sad and I wish I understood why....
You may feel insulted and offended because Front is considered a troll on here and you might say that this is what they did to Michael...condemn him without investigation.
My question for you would be this: you have said many times that it does not matter to you who Front really is. So why are you so harsh and merciless and fierce in your quest to defend him now? If he´s not you know who, why bother? If he is, why bother? He knows who he is and if he´s honest and has no malicious intent, he does not need to defend himself over and over again, attack and blame others and make you lay your heads on the block for him.I understand where you are coming from though. You might say that Souza won´t stop saying that Front is a troll and Front is possibly person X, and that therefore Front has the right to defend himself too. Even if it´s over and over again, same old, same old. If you know who was a person without a voice, I´d understand. But he is not. So my words to Front on Twitter still hold true and I stand by them: methinks thou dost protest too much. If he´s good and honest and all of his words are coming from a place of love in his heart there should not be space for hate. To simply say „I am not X“ would have sufficed in my honest opinion. To simply say „I am not a troll, I find it outrageous what they are accusing me of and I don´t want to be associated with MJDHI any more“ would have sufficed. Defend oneself? Yes. Say it one time, say it loud and clear and that should be it. Yes I know it did not work in Michael´s case but this is something completely different. We are talking about a character online, hidden behing a screen like all of us. Not real life. Yes, if what this „Back“ character here on the forum said is wrong, that´s not funny and it´s really a bad situation and I´d feel sorry for the person in question .But it´s not Front´s war, is it? And it´s not your war.
If Souza is wrong, if all of us who doubt are wrong.....time will tell and the truh will prevail, won´t it? If Front is blameless he should carry on with his message of love instead of enforcing hate.
If he´s truly what he say he is, he should not be afraid or feel threatened.
Further Re: PureLove:
I had no problem whatsoever to embrace PureLove as a friend on Twitter and I was happy for her, that she found her „family“ again on Twitter and I wish her good luck and may her new forum home be a happy one for her.
When PureLove asked me to join her forum I told her, in all honesty, that it´s not for me to talk behind someone´s back and  that I did not want to join, since for me, personally, it was a question of loyalty. When I become a mod on a forum it´s „united we stand, divided we fall“ for me. Corporate identity so to speak. There´s a code of honor for me when it comes to these things in the online world. I also told PureLove that I did not believe in Front and I did not want to see topics like Pablo etc. on a forum. She respected my point of view and decision and that was it. Same goes for Mariella.

I came here for Michael, not for Front or TS. Frankly and honestly I don´t care who or what people believe in, in this hoax, in the fan community, in life in general. It´s their own choice and that´s ok with me.
It saddens me to see that now, with this Front situation, people are fighting and bashing each other. People that were friends on here or on Twitter or elsewhere.
I deactivated my Twitter account because I cannot bear to see this „war“ going on.

I, personally, will never allow my belief, be it religious or other, to make me hate anyone. It´s not worth it in the end. We all have our private lives, and that is where we should feel free and happy and enjoy ourselves first and foremost. Always remember love and compassion and please be careful with your hearts and that of others.
If I could have one wish, it would be that we all remain open-minded  and objective and neither engage in cultish behavior NOR in hasty condemnation. But, and I want to make it very clear one more time: We need to be aware of the possible danger and malicious intent.
At the end of the day and at the end of all this we all will have learned a lot and some might have been hurt and disappointed. We all have a heart...I don´t want to see anyone´s heart being broken.
Anyway....that´s what I had to say and you can now go and bash me or talk about me behind my back on the new forum or whatever you want. I wish you won´t though. For all of you who decided to not come here anymore or participate and who decided to join „Team Front“: I just want you to know that I enjoyed being with you here and that I enjoyed being your friend. I never thought it would come to this.
I always thought that we could rise above the situation and respect each other as human beings despite our differences.
I never thought that our love for the greatest light on earth, Michael, who always strived to unite people in love, would ever be the reason and catalyst for this war and division going on on a huge, global scale.
I don´t hate anyone and I don´t want to fight. Just needed to say what I think is right. In my heart.
I´m just weary and sad.
Take care everyone, stay safe and happy.
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You and I were never separate

It's just an illusion

Wrought by the magical lens of Perception



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curls

Re: Important information for all members
September 05, 2013, 03:34:06 PM
@Mary, just a huge ((((hug)))) for you!  I don't hold the same views about everything you wrote and I haven't followed the same path as you, but I applaud such a calm, balanced and thoughtful post. I AM a native English speaker and I haven't been able to put my thoughts together in such a clear and understandable manner. xx
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Re: Important information for all members
September 05, 2013, 03:51:58 PM
Mary i love your post,  :bearhug:

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“In a world filled with hate, we must still dare to hope. In a world filled with anger, we must still dare to comfort. In a world filled with despair, we must still dare to dream. And in a world filled with distrust, we must still dare to believe.”
― Michael Jackson

 

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