Marilyn Manson to Paris Jackson..You're always welcome at my shows

[MaryK]

Bec, you said:

So if people aren't yet aware, it's only on them.

And there´s the crucial point.

People that are aware of the hoax are a minority.

Therefore, again: the context and connotation are completely missing on a larger scale.

[Andrea]

I don't know a whole lot about Marilyn Manson but do like the music I've heard.  In high school a friend of mine was totally in love with him and would call him Nyliram Nosnam so no one would know who she was talking about, lol.  Anyways, from a couple interviews that I've seen of his, he is always thoughtful and well-spoken - not dark and evil-sounding.

For you Mary,  :bearhug:  I love you!

[MaryK]

Andrea  :bearhug:

I admit that my initial impulse was to leave here for good.

Yes I did feel disgusted and yes I did feel offended.

And I still feel that the idea of using teenage suicide for hoax purposed crosses my moral boundaries.

However I must say that I am not a person who will quit easily. I will always engange in a respectful discussion and I will try to clarify my point of view.

That is why I tried to explain why I cannot accept the idea.

Initially I felt heartbroken and I perceived insensitivity and coldness from some of you.

But I am now trying to look at things your way and entertain your thoughts without agreeing with them.

I don´t feel that is hypocritical. It´s being true to myself and a way to self-reflection.

Maybe some of you can now understand where I am coming from and maybe understand the pain that me and others feel when we read your words.

[Thriller4ever]

The difference for me is that (up to now), the public, the "audience" have no way, no possibility of perceiving the Paris story as art, since the majority of the world public isn´t aware of the death hoax.

Oh I gotta grab this and say, except that everyone is privy to the same info as us and we all know that MJ isn't dead. We recognized the clues and did the leg work to follow the rabbitholes and discover the truth that this is a hoax.

Now reports state that Paris said she wants to "join Dad". So if you accept that MJ isn't dead, you can deduce that Paris's "alleged suicide attempt" is not real either. I actually think it's pretty kind of MJ to make it so very clear only 48hrs into this story. He rarely makes it so easy.

So if people aren't yet aware, it's only on them. Not to be callous or anything but the playing field is level. We all had the same opportunity from the beginning. Like any game, your success is based solely on your own merit.

The reason why hoax community is a minority is because:

1) Rippers are dumb.

2) The non-fans are 'too practical' to believe that there's a person out there who's trying to make a difference in this world because everyone is busy trying to save their 'own world'.  They be like 'miracles don't happen'.

ugh!

[Thriller4ever]

BTW, aren't her siblings there to share her emotions? especially Prince.

[bec]

Maybe some of you can now understand where I am coming from and maybe understand the pain that me and others feel when we read your words.

Because we support different theories? I don't understand how differing opinions cause emotional pain.

[mrbigshot]

The difference for me is that (up to now), the public, the "audience" have no way, no possibility of perceiving the Paris story as art, since the majority of the world public isn´t aware of the death hoax.

Oh I gotta grab this and say, except that everyone is privy to the same info as us and we all know that MJ isn't dead. We recognized the clues and did the leg work to follow the rabbitholes and discover the truth that this is a hoax.

Now reports state that Paris said she wants to "join Dad". So if you accept that MJ isn't dead, you can deduce that Paris's "alleged suicide attempt" is not real either. I actually think it's pretty kind of MJ to make it so very clear only 48hrs into this story. He rarely makes it so easy.

So if people aren't yet aware, it's only on them. Not to be callous or anything but the playing field is level. We all had the same opportunity from the beginning. Like any game, your success is based solely on your own merit.

The reason why hoax community is a minority is because:

1) Rippers are dumb.

2) The non-fans are 'too practical' to believe that there's a person out there who's trying to make a difference in this world because everyone is busy trying to save their 'own world'.  They be like 'miracles don't happen'.

ugh!

Misinformed, not dumb. better word to describe it...even ignorant. It's not that they are incapable of understanding. Rather, they refuse to believe that this has happened, and find it so absurdly ludicrous that they fail do their research. There are a lot of intelligent people who still believe he is dead...but because it is such a dismissive ideal...they are ignorant and fail to dig deeper. that in itself I wouldn't just call dumb. Just need to get their facts straight. You can either give credit to michael, making him possibly the greatest entertainer and illusionist the world has ever seen, or admit that the general public is dim-witted. I'll give this one to michael, because by doing so you discredit his ability to create such a spectacle.


as for Marilyn Manson, he is deliberately eccentric. he likes to manipulate the media, when in actuality, after viewing a videos, he is very intelligent and has this articulation about him that undoubtedly surprising. His lyrics aren't demonic or sadistic, just help to convey his emotions. I wouldn't take those lyrics literally, you really have to read between the lines to draw your own interpretations from his music. Being a poet I know how lyricism is essentially created.

[MaryK]

Maybe some of you can now understand where I am coming from and maybe understand the pain that me and others feel when we read your words.

Because we support different theories? I don't understand how differing opinions cause emotional pain.

No, it´s not about the different theories.
It´s about the coldness and insensitivity I perceived.
Perception is subjective and so is emotional pain.

And this being said I want to add that I don´t think that anyone should consider themselves smarter or more "enlightened" and thus superior.
Nor should anyone judge and blame others for not seeing what they see.

[Thriller4ever]

@mrbishot : refusing to understand what is clearly evident after the facts are all laid out to them is, imo, dumb. 

[RK]

This doesn't translate well in print for me.   

Not to be callous or anything but the playing field is level. We all had the same opportunity from the beginning. Like any game, your success is based solely on your own merit.

It's no secret that I think this is  about more than making a movie or an  interactive game. I assume those may be  two amongst  many reasons [ some very serious]  for this hoax. I also don't buy that his whole life [publicly] was a hoax as others do. That's okay .
But I would just like to add that maybe  being successful in this virtual game if indeed it is such,  may be  more about our reactions and being sensitive and  compassionate than winning at any cost.   In my estimations, if I am genuinely  kind and compassionate then I am indeed a winner or more so... have already won.

I just wanted to voice this......that's all. 

[MaryK]

This doesn't translate well in print for me.   

Not to be callous or anything but the playing field is level. We all had the same opportunity from the beginning. Like any game, your success is based solely on your own merit.

It's no secret that I think this is  about more than making a movie or an  interactive game. I assume those may be  two amongst  many reasons [ some very serious]  for this hoax. I also don't buy that his whole life [publicly] was a hoax as others do. That's okay .
But I would just like to add that maybe  being successful in this virtual game if indeed it is such,  may be  more about our reactions and being sensitive and  compassionate than winning at any cost.   In my estimations, if I am genuinely  kind and compassionate then I am indeed a winner or more so... have already won.

I just wanted to voice this......that's all.

Yes! Thank you!

[Faithad777]

Quote from: MaryK

"And this being said I want to add that I don´t think that anyone should consider themselves smarter or more "enlightened" and thus superior.
Nor should anyone judge and blame others for not seeing what they see."


MaryK, very nice words. And I appreciate your honesty in speaking your mind.

With this hoax, Michael has pioneered yet another field.  People have been accustomed and programmed for years to believe what they see on TV and what they read in magazines.  To go against what's been reported for 4 years as the truth from every media that's out there would be crazy, right?  Even though the tides are turning and people are beginning to be very cautious of what's being reported as the truth, it will take a lot more time for the change to happen.
I believe it was Michael who made people open their eyes and do more research before they believe the media's reports to be true, but we still have a long way to go on that.

It is my belief that the main reason for this hoax is for Michael to expose AEG (and may be Sony) as the ruthless, unethical and devious company it is and how the people working for AEG were treating Michael and his family up to and before 6/25.  And this trial is doing just that, exposing the reasons why Michael hoaxed his death and how he had no other way out of the whole mess. 

[Thriller4ever]

@RK

i think bec meant understanding and realizing this hoax is a success and it's based on your own merit. that's how i got it. We all were at the same level on June 25, but what we believe after that day is based on our capacity and ability of recognizing the fake from the hullabaloo.

[Australian MJ BeLIEver]

Maybe some of you can now understand where I am coming from and maybe understand the pain that me and others feel when we read your words.

Because we support different theories? I don't understand how differing opinions cause emotional pain.

No, it´s not about the different theories.
It´s about the coldness and insensitivity I perceived.
Perception is subjective and so is emotional pain.

And this being said I want to add that I don´t think that anyone should consider themselves smarter or more "enlightened" and thus superior.
No one should anyone judge and blame others for not seeing what they see.

Again Mary, genuinely sad for you for being hurt. I truly am. I know that no one here would genuinely want to hurt others. The comments were simply objective statements about the story from one perspective. Regarding coldness and insensitivity you perceived, the comments were made in the same spirit that other comments have been made. We have discussed other things with the same 'coldness and insensitivity' you claim. Ex: autopsy, vitiligo, death pics, death scene. The kind of communication that was expressed with the Paris did not differ from other 'crude' conversations we have 'all' engaged in for hoax purposes in the past.

Without trivialising how you feel, you can't be responsible for others being hurt by our words. If we were all careful and sensitive to others in everything we say here on the forum, no one would ever say anything. Omg, some of the stuff I've read abt Jesus or God on this forum, was terrible to read. But nonetheless the opinion of others.

No one here said they consider themselves more enlightened or superior. And as for Judgement, the individuals who were being judged were actually the ones denying the Paris story, not the other way around. Lol, the amount of hate mail I've had this week is ridiculous, thanks to someone copying and pasting my comments from here onto twitter.

No one blamed others for not seeing what they see. In fact the only people who were blamed, again were the ones who didn't believe it. Blamed for being callous, uncaring, like tabloids, etc or my personal favourite blamed for sending out a message and promoting that teen suicide is entertainment.

Emotional pain, is subjective as you say. In this scenario it worked both ways. I got hurt too. The attacking was very personal, in my case. But eh, water off a ducks back! I'm used to bein unpopular because of what i say lol :icon_e_wink:

Anyways the reason for telling you this is to show, that it 'hurt' the other way around too. I get your position.

I don't regret any of my comments. Sad that you were offended and it made you want I leave. And I'm glad you're not!

 :bearhug:

[Australian MJ BeLIEver]

being successful in this virtual game if indeed it is such,  may be  more about our reactions and being sensitive and  compassionate than winning at any cost.   In my estimations, if I am genuinely  kind and compassionate then I am indeed a winner or more so... have already won.

And being analytical in this instance, an in-compassionate or unkind person does not make. I don't believe anyone who thinks the story is false has a 'win at any cost' attitude. More just tellin' it like they perceive it.

Emotion got mixed in which is why it got messy. Investigation is no place for emotion unfortunately.

 :bearhug: