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bec

Re: Paris Jackson possible suicide attempt
June 07, 2013, 01:05:07 AM
Amen, MJonmind. He totally started it.
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Are you entertained?

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MaryK

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Re: Paris Jackson possible suicide attempt
June 07, 2013, 01:57:36 AM
Ok I feel like I have just been ushered out.

I have lost someone I truly loved to suicide.

And I will never forget the almost unbearable pain, the helplessness, the numbness.

I still feel disgusted and I feel saddened.

And most certainly I do not feel entertained.

I feel sad and yes I feel offended when I see so many of you taking this lightly, laughing about it and joking.

Maybe my personal history with suicide makes me vulnerable.

If this turns out to be staged then I will still stand by my conviction that it is morally questionable, even morally reprehensible.

And I will feel disappointed by Michael and I will still think it´s a bad bad choice and in bad taste.

Call me petty, blind, ignorant, faint-hearted, hypocritical, a "bad hoaxer", misled or whatever you want but I can´t help it.

So maybe this isn´t the right place for me to be.

I understand that opinion and perception are bound to be subjective.

And I realize that maybe there are some among you that have a similar personal history but still feel comfortable with this.

I can´t.

I am sorry. I don´t want to offend anyone. Just feel truly and utterly sad.
Last Edit: June 07, 2013, 02:13:14 AM by MaryK
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You and I were never separate

It's just an illusion

Wrought by the magical lens of Perception



Re: Paris Jackson possible suicide attempt
June 07, 2013, 02:01:59 AM
When i saw yesterday the audio message from Murray it became weird to me......but i can't believe it is a hoax.....suicide attemt is so serious...
My feelings are going aroun and i think of Paris since i heard it.

Think to these 4 years that is a timeline in the hoax....Michael said 4 years...Murray got 4 years...

4 years ago Michael comes to the rehersals with the kids...first time without masks.....it was the first days of june.....i think the 5 th June, but i am not sure and now....the 5 th June Paris does this....

I am scared....
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Re: Paris Jackson possible suicide attempt
June 07, 2013, 02:25:18 AM
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Ok I feel like I have just been ushered out.

I have lost someone I truly loved to suicide.

And I will never forget the almost unbearable pain, the helplessness, the numbness.

I still feel disgusted and I feel saddened.

And most certainly I do not feel entertained.

I feel sad and yes I feel offended when I see so many of you taking this lightly, laughing about it and joking.

Maybe my personal history with suicide makes me vulnerable.

If this turns out to be staged then I still stand by my conviction that it is morally questionable, even morally reprehensible.

And I will feel disappointed by Michael and I will still think it´s a bad bad choice and in bad taste.

Call me petty, blind, ignorant, faint-hearted, hypocritical, a "bad hoaxer", misled or whatever you want but I can´t help it.

So maybe this isn´t the right place for me to be.

I understand that opinion and perception are bound to be subjective.

And I realize that maybe there are some among you that have a similar personal history but still feel comfortable with this.

I can´t.

I am sorry. I don´t want to offend anyone. Just feel truly and utterly sad.

I too have been touched by suicide and have worked with and around individuals with suicidal tendencies for most of my career as a social worker. Please do not think I am not saddened when I see individuals struggling with suicidal behaviors. I get what you are saying and appreciate that you feel sensitive to the story, it rattles your tree and you are identifying your own loss through this latest story about Paris. Nor does it make you a bad hoaxer. I am sorry that you feel saddened and sickened by some of the comments, presumably, mostly mine. I want to take this opportunity to say if some feel I am making light of the story, then its limited to the story itself, not the issue of suicide. I really resented Leilani saying I am making light of suicide, and sending a bad message to youths because that is not the case. Trust me, I have lost both clients and friends to suicide, I know how deeply it hurts and how significant the loss is to those left behind. I have felt the same pain you feel. In this situation it is the 'legitimacy' of the story that I am making light of in the 'context of the hoax', not the notion of suicide itself. I am thinking that this subject is one that several people on this forum should stay away from, especially minors or those who are clearly struggling to cope with how suicide has personally affected them. In fact I hope that those who are offended and hurt by comments or worried and sad for Paris use their better judgement and stop continuing to return here, as you are only going to continue to read things that may upset you. (Perhaps mods should lock this to over 18's - if there exists such a feature) My intention was not to upset anyone. Just state my POI. But I don't regret stating it. I am saddened for a few that they have been hurt. But I can't control how people feel.

Anyways Mary, you didn't offend me. Unlike others, I am ok with people having a different opinion. (Goodness me, some of the people I respect THE MOST here either don't believe God exists or think that MJ is Jesus! This is not the place to come if you get offended by what other people write or believe) Also I 'get' why ppl like yourself may be getting hurt - it's obviously too close to home. But you haven't offended me. Not in the slightest. In fact I feel the way you relayed your point of view was respectful and you explained why you are finding it hurtful and difficult to read in a kind and mild manner not resorting to insults, throwing shame or name calling - Leilani should really take a page from your book, because she could seriously learn to show a little grace like you have.

But yeah, I hope for their own sake, people who feel uncomfortable with this thread use their better judgement.

Most of all though, I am really sorry for your loss for whomever it was in your life that you lost to the tragedy of suicide.

Much Love x

Last Edit: June 07, 2013, 04:11:54 AM by Australian MJ BeLIEver
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People laugh when I explain. And though they may laugh, that doesn't change the fact that it's still the truth.


Michael is Alive
The end of evil is nigh
Trust in God
The righteous will prevail

Re: Paris Jackson possible suicide attempt
June 07, 2013, 02:44:43 AM
i agree with you Mary, with all due respect to members who are convinced it's all part of the hoax, because everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but the thought alone is troubling to me.

@ Mary and all members here who lost a friend(s) i feel your grief.
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“In a world filled with hate, we must still dare to hope. In a world filled with anger, we must still dare to comfort. In a world filled with despair, we must still dare to dream. And in a world filled with distrust, we must still dare to believe.”
― Michael Jackson

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Tove

Re: Paris Jackson possible suicide attempt
June 07, 2013, 04:07:55 AM
I'm still bothered, that investigation has uncritical. Hoax investigators should be more critical imo. It doesen't differ if person is believer or non-believer if the critisism is missing -Michael wanted us to guestion everything we hear and read. I think we aredanger to fall in circular argument and see everything as a hoax if we don't pay attention to reasoning and critical thinking.

I think it's sad and stupid that we're arguing is this news true or false and calling opposite opinions in names -that's not the point. Point is revealing and finding out the truth that no one of us knows yet.

Peace. I don't believe anyone of here thinks Paris haves a dark soul. I believe everyone wishes the best for her. I also don't believe everything in this hoax is for entertainment, that's quite shallow thought.

Conred Murrays message was a bit bizarre, it got me thinking the whole Paris news in new light.
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Re: Paris Jackson possible suicide attempt
June 07, 2013, 04:22:43 AM
Yes Tove, what you say is true. We do need to be critical, as per MJs instructions. Whichever you believe this story to be true or part of the hoax, the basis for your decision should be critical thinking, logic, looking into facts or historical similarities, not just emotion and how the story makes us 'feel' personally - weather that be sadness, fear, grief, etc.

From what I can see here the responses from some are based on emotions of fear or sadness stemming from a 'personal' perspective or experience, not necessarily the 'criticism' which you speak of. 'Criticism' which should be based on 'objectivity' not 'subjectivity'. Everyone's 'moral compass' is individual - subjective. DO WE KNOW whats in MJs heart? Do we know if Paris Suicide is 'inside' or 'outside' of his moral / ethical boundaries when it comes to the hoax? No. Therefore we can't say that "MJ wouldn't do this to Paris, or make light of Suicide". And we can't be subjective and assume to know 'what he feels' - Otherwise, the argument regarding DH that "MJ wouldn't do this to his fans" is also valid as it too is subjective. The only 'data' if you will, that we have to go by when reading this story is the historical trail of lies coming from Camp MJ as part of this hoax.

If from the start of the hoax, hoaxers made a decision on what to believe based on personal emotions, then they will not get too far in finding the truth. Typically, 'Deaders' don't believe in the hoax because they use this kind of emotive reasoning instead of looking at it objectively. For example "Michael wouldn't do this to his fans" reasoning over "Ok, lets go over the facts of timeline, or autopsy or whatever else there is that could be used to form your 'version' of the situation."
Last Edit: June 07, 2013, 04:36:17 AM by Australian MJ BeLIEver
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People laugh when I explain. And though they may laugh, that doesn't change the fact that it's still the truth.


Michael is Alive
The end of evil is nigh
Trust in God
The righteous will prevail

*

curls

Re: Paris Jackson possible suicide attempt
June 07, 2013, 04:38:52 AM
Mary, I feel and share your sadness.

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Re: Paris Jackson possible suicide attempt
June 07, 2013, 05:31:10 AM
The first shock is over and i ask some questions...

The media told that Paris called the suicide hotline and they send the ambulance......had Paris told them who she is and where she live ? Can they find the adress from a cell phone ?

The media told Paris was rushed to the West Hills Hospital.
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I can't find a physician for psychiatrie there...who made the psychiatrie hold for 72 hours and as i know it's not so good when family members come to visit in these 72 hours...

This hospital has not the best references and i wonder why the family said that she get a appropriate help......i weird discription...why not the very best care ?
Only Murray said that he is there for her and will help and care.
Has anybody of the family said any emotion thing like that.....same thing liket after the " death "....no emotions !

I was heartbroken when someone in my house was so depressed and i don't see it.

There is rearly a pic from Paris in the hospital. ?... :Pulling_hair:

On Paris twitter accound she had red hair in the last days....from black to red....but she don't look like Paris as we know her and the media uses pics from her a few years ago....same with Michael.....no new pic at the Memorial and the Funeral.

It's all confusion and for me to much....no jokes with death, illness or suicide.
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Re: Paris Jackson possible suicide attempt
June 07, 2013, 05:35:31 AM
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but he can't really blame us, since he trained us personally himself.

Reminds me of V and his lies.

Evey Hammond: You're *sick*! You're *evil*!

V: *You* could've ended it, Evey, you could've given in. But you didn't. Why?

Evey Hammond: Leave me alone! I *hate* you!

V: That's it! See, at first I thought it was hate, too. Hate was all I knew, it built my world, it imprisoned me, taught me how to eat, how to drink, how to breathe. I thought I'd die with all my hate in my veins. But then something happened. It happened to me... just as it happened to you.

Evey Hammond: Shut up! I *don't* want to hear your lies!

V: Your own father said that artists use lies to tell the truth. Yes, I created a lie. But because you believed it, you found something true about yourself.

Quote (selected)
Check out the MM pics near the bottom, and that is what MJ is doing in art in another medium.
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The pics you are referring to remind me of MJ in this particular order: 1) MJ Jesus pose, 2) MJ in Dangerous Gold G String Jumpsuit and 3) Give into me clip.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruEUCwVgHdk[/youtube]

Oh yes I remember like it was yesterday  :'( ..........
   
 
Quote (selected)
    Evey: You got to me? You did this to me... You cut my hair... You tortured me... You tortured me! Why?
    V: You said you wanted to live without fear. I wish there'd been an easier way, but there wasn't.  :icon_cry:
    Evey: [whispers] Oh, my God!
    V: I know you may never forgive me(really appropriate for some of us  :() , but nor will you ever understand how hard it was for me to do what I did. Every day, I saw in myself everything you see in me now. Every day, I wanted to end it. But each time you refused to give in, I knew I couldn't.
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Re: Paris Jackson possible suicide attempt
June 07, 2013, 05:52:57 AM
You know, we can all think what we want.

I totally don't mind that a 50 year old man decides about what his life needs to be and for exemple decides to fake his death for some reasons that are known by him. Being Mj or someone else, i don't give a shit, honestly.

Now you must keep in mind that not all life is HOAX and that appart from the hoax, this people have a REAL LIFE. Paris goes to school, she has a life, projects for her future. She's not only an actress of the hoax 100% of the time !

They have a family life, and in this family life, i don't really see a dad asking his daughter to fake a suicide, mixing her real life with such a lie.
Faking suicide is FAR FAR from posting strange pictures and tweets, and acting weird.

I'm sorry but i don't see Michael putting his daughter through such a lie.

Now i see that some media are already writting about AEG to be the reason for her attempt, because they try to crush the Jackson by prooving MJ is not the biological father of his children. I guess this REALLY happened and the Jackson are using it, because they are in the middle of a trial and of course they would use this and say AEG is responsible. If you have an ennemy you can blame, wouldn't you do it ?

And about Paris faking, well... the family said she did that before (hurting herself) but i don't remember i ever saw any post here saying you think Paris is not feeling well, and yet obviously she wasn't well.
Remember taj admittting he was molested by an uncle...would anyone dare tweet him : hey, nice lie, great entertainment, man !
Just please stop thinking the Jackson family is all safe and clear of any trouble. They are human and they don't need their pain to be denied.
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Do not push the carebear in the nettles

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Re: Paris Jackson possible suicide attempt
June 07, 2013, 05:57:40 AM
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Hopefully this link will work. That pic floating around of PJ on the hospital IS NOT HER!
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Re: Paris Jackson possible suicide attempt
June 07, 2013, 06:34:58 AM
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Hopefully this link will work. That pic floating around of PJ on the hospital IS NOT HER!

idk who or why people would want see a pic anyways, like i mean privacy not respected now days...
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a comeback is far more greater when the odds are impossible

Re: Paris Jackson possible suicide attempt
June 07, 2013, 06:51:28 AM
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Whichever you believe this story to be true or part of the hoax, the basis for your decision should be critical thinking, logic, looking into facts or historical similarities, not just emotion and how the story makes us 'feel' personally - weather that be sadness, fear, grief, etc.

This is something we can both agree on!

I hope the logic and facts of this sad episode for Paris are seen as the truth soon, because please believe me when I say that I have really tried to understand where members who don't believe this story are coming from and I have read all posts many times. I understand why they may have come to their conclusions, but LOGIC and CRITICAL THINKING are not being executed as far as I can see.

I firmly do not believe that Michael would publicise a lie that could change his Daughters future and label her, (like the labels he had to carry through life), as part of a gain for himself.

I firmly believe this is overstepping any boundary of the hoax (for whatever reason there is one) and is against the strong moral stance he has on life and his love of all children. 
 
I have also based my belief that this has happened to Paris on the factual research that has been available and I have made a short and by no means conclusive list of these.

Reputable news sources reported the news and followed up with statements (NOT INC TMZ)
A statement from her own Mother (who she has now bonded with and is spending time with)
A statement from the Jacksons themselves
A statement from the Estate
A statement from the 911 department (who declined to name the person they transported to Hospital)

Secondary research:
The Conrad Murray Phone Call to Paris
Prince cancelling his trip (important for his own career) at the weekend to be with Paris
100's of social media members (including big names in the industry) that have commented and left good wishes for Paris
Top Psychiatrists appearing on News channels reasoning with WHY this has happened
My own documentation/reviewing of the past 18 months of change in Paris and her life and considering her age/statistics of teenage suicide. 

Now based on these FACTS coupled with the thought that Michael did everything he could to shield his children from being used as tools to get to him, coupled with his moral and spiritual stance on life, I came to the conclusion that this was in no way part of the hoax.  It is just too serious of an issue to mess with and to be part of whatever people here want to label the hoax.

SUICIDE IS TOO SERIOUS OF A MATTER TO MESS WITH, reputations are on the line, Paris is a role model to many teenage girls, and no matter if you like it or not news stories influence minds, we wouldn't all be here 'HOAXING' otherwise.

This has been a divided and open discussion which has brought to the front some serious discussion points and feelings FROM EVERYONE and yes, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, right or wrong.  What saddens me is that it seems some have lost all faith in TRUTH itself and are so closed down to believing a truth when it hits the headlines. This is not the first time I've seen it happen here and it really saddens me because it's when love is needed to be sent back to the world the most and we ourselves grow spiritually.

One of Michael's biggest messages was to give LOVE back to the ones that are suffering in the world, especially the children and why he donated so much time and money to helping those who were suffering..... SO WHY ON EARTH WOULD HE MAKE UP A SUICIDE STORY ABOUT HIS OWN DAUGHTER and RUIN HER REPUTATION?

With Love. 
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Re: Paris Jackson possible suicide attempt
June 07, 2013, 07:20:18 AM
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Whichever you believe this story to be true or part of the hoax, the basis for your decision should be critical thinking, logic, looking into facts or historical similarities, not just emotion and how the story makes us 'feel' personally - weather that be sadness, fear, grief, etc.

This is something we can both agree on!

I hope the logic and facts of this sad episode for Paris are seen as the truth soon, because please believe me when I say that I have really tried to understand where members who don't believe this story are coming from and I have read all posts many times. I understand why they may have come to their conclusions, but LOGIC and CRITICAL THINKING are not being executed as far as I can see.

I firmly do not believe that Michael would publicise a lie that could change his Daughters future and label her, (like the labels he had to carry through life), as part of a gain for himself.

I firmly believe this is overstepping any boundary of the hoax (for whatever reason there is one) and is against the strong moral stance he has on life and his love of all children. 
 
I have also based my belief that this has happened to Paris on the factual research that has been available and I have made a short and by no means conclusive list of these.

Reputable news sources reported the news and followed up with statements (NOT INC TMZ)
A statement from her own Mother (who she has now bonded with and is spending time with)
A statement from the Jacksons themselves
A statement from the Estate
A statement from the 911 department (who declined to name the person they transported to Hospital)

Secondary research:
The Conrad Murray Phone Call to Paris
Prince cancelling his trip (important for his own career) at the weekend to be with Paris
100's of social media members (including big names in the industry) that have commented and left good wishes for Paris
Top Psychiatrists appearing on News channels reasoning with WHY this has happened
My own documentation/reviewing of the past 18 months of change in Paris and her life and considering her age/statistics of teenage suicide. 

Now based on these FACTS coupled with the thought that Michael did everything he could to shield his children from being used as tools to get to him, coupled with his moral and spiritual stance on life, I came to the conclusion that this was in no way part of the hoax.  It is just too serious of an issue to mess with and to be part of whatever people here want to label the hoax.

SUICIDE IS TOO SERIOUS OF A MATTER TO MESS WITH, reputations are on the line, Paris is a role model to many teenage girls, and no matter if you like it or not news stories influence minds, we wouldn't all be here 'HOAXING' otherwise.

This has been a divided and open discussion which has brought to the front some serious discussion points and feelings FROM EVERYONE and yes, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, right or wrong.  What saddens me is that it seems some have lost all faith in TRUTH itself and are so closed down to believing a truth when it hits the headlines. This is not the first time I've seen it happen here and it really saddens me because it's when love is needed to be sent back to the world the most and we ourselves grow spiritually.

One of Michael's biggest messages was to give LOVE back to the ones that are suffering in the world, especially the children and why he donated so much time and money to helping those who were suffering..... SO WHY ON EARTH WOULD HE MAKE UP A SUICIDE STORY ABOUT HIS OWN DAUGHTER and RUIN HER REPUTATION?

With Love.

I have to admit. I was beating hoax drum pretty hard yesterday. But the more I think (and maybe I just to need back away for things and stop thinking on impulse and emotion) that this suicide attempt is real.

The more I listen to Murray's audio, the more I think this is SIMPLY Michael telling Paris he is here for her. And that she may not be able to see him, but he's only a phone call away.

I ( at this point) still don't see how this fits the hoax. My first emotion was that is, if Murray released this audio it must be apart of this hoax.

I don't think Paris's suicide attempt (if real) means Michael is dead. One tragic even doesn't change what MJ has been working on, and the investigations into the hoax. It could be an isolated incident. Sometime real life just takes over.

I am 100% sure Michael is still alive, but this Paris thing is truly a roller coaster of emotions. I think, me personally I just need to wait for info to come out, and not be so impulsive.
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