Favorites

[MaryK]

Well I must admit that thought has crossed my mind.
We all doubt and question sometimes, right?
It´s a thicket of facts, ideas, events, backgrounds, characters involved, truths and half-truths, questions, mysteries, riddles.....
It´s not easy, and it probably was never meant to be easy to figure it all out.

But:
I´d rather concede ingenuity to Michael NOW and find out in the end that I was right, than doubt it and find out in the end that I was wrong and totally underestimated him. Not for selfish reasons and not bc I don´t like being wrong or bc thinking that way is easier. I don´t have blinders on. I still keep watching and observing critically. It´s simply bc I would never want to do wrong by him and underestimate him.
And from all that I´ve learned, heard and seen so far: there´s a good chance that he really is the genius behind all this and that it´s him who pulls the strings.
I love this thought. There´s so much beauty and brilliancy in this hoax if you decide to look at it that way. I love all the nuances and I would not want to miss that.

[bugsy]

I have had people say to me at times

"you know his dead right?" and I've argued against them asking them to void all what's happened to say otherwise, they can't of course but then they did say "what if in his real will he asked for a hoax to be played out?" I thought about it for a short time but dismissed it, I felt he wasn't dead the moment I saw the announcement and the only time I have doubted it was when I had my grandfather pass away and a friend from a long time ago die within a week of each other.. If i had gone on just the odd strange things happening from day 1 I probably would have believed more in the whole a possible real will stating for a hoax but my heart from the beginning said different which had nothing to do with others. I believe his a live and all these people who has given hoaxy stuff were in line with the hoax, In the end I think it's a trust yourself, trust what your instincts tell you personally.

Although it is good to look at all views, sides and possibilities, but  the instincts generally never fail.

[rachel1018]

there MAY be knowers...however, I feel that not everyone knows about MJ being alive....not everyone in his family.......maybe a few are aware or like you said, some of them are hoping he's not really gone.....the reactions they had didnt make sense, ie janet laughing 5 months later...........

[bec]

Sorry, son, you'll have to excuse me, I resolved all these doubts you speak of 2 years ago.

[YouRnotAlone7]

I don't know....what Son says does make sense....maybe MJ told his family that he was going to disappear....he told Paris "If I die tomorrow...remember everything that I've told you"...so apparently he was redding some of  them for it.  I do believe the fake corpse idea...the fake cadavers look extremely realistic these days...and unless you are touching the person, it could easily be believed to be real.  Plus add a bit of "magic" via Criss Angel and it could easily have been pulled off.   :animal0017:

[bec]

So Dr. Cooper is a liar then? A liar who perjured herself? The EMT's as well I suppose. Don't forget Dr. Nyugen (or however you spell her name). Lots of liars. For what purpose if no one knows?

Sorry, these theories are old n tired, half baked and been long ago debunked. Do a search on the forum for more info. There are volumes for your reading pleasure.

[Australian MJ BeLIEver]

@ son, my sister also a major MJ fan like I except she is a non believer, thinks silimarly to you.

She knows how amazing / crafty / imaginative he is and believes he is dead. She says MJ is the kind of person who would want to really die leaving people wondering if it's all a hoax (that's how she reconciles all the hoaxy proof I throw her way)

She can't digest it and feels embarrassed for me that I have been 'misguided' by nutcase conspiracy theorists. And yet I shake my head in amazement because she says this with such conviction with out ONCE giving one piece of evidence I show her serious and unbiased consideration.

Long story short. Rhetorically I have asked her, if you can't accept everything I am showing you that proves he is alive and simply just don't / can't believe it. That's fine. Leave it be. But set yourself a task and try to build a case and find evidence that he is dead then. And I'm not talking verbal accounts. I'm talking conclusive evidence he is dead.

There isn't any. Still to this day.

I am guessing this task will keep her busy for a while. (but knowing her she will probably form an opinion without seeking proof)

[Australian MJ BeLIEver]

Sorry hit 'post' prematurely.

My point is that after three years the theory that MJ is dead, is FAR LESS plausible than MJ being alive. The scales of evidence are tipped the other way. There is nothing to indicate he is dead.

[bec]

And this is why you need to read.

Aussie did it. She started late. She is living proof you can get up to speed even having missed a few years.

[Australian MJ BeLIEver]

Lol, and I'm still at it. Archived forums are the best. Besides our current priveledge of front and TS threads, I personally believe the best threads and discussions for quantifying theories or debunking theories, were had from sep 09 to early 2011.

Really worth fishing around those old theory boards if you have doubts or unresolved theories. A lot of the doubts have been addressed and debunked.

Good luck son!

NB. Just for a laugh now, here is one of my sisters other theories. Actually theory is too strong of a word, more of an ill thought out statement based on no research whatsoever.

My sis reconciles what family days about "conspiracy" and "hoax evidence" I throw at her, by saying "he is dead, and the people who killed him (doctor Murray and others she is vague about) are making out MJ hoaxed his death so that they are not held accountable, that it's a hoax within a hoax. MJ didn't die, he was murdered and they are covering it up with the hoax. Which is why you ..... (my real name) keep seeing hoax proof, because the hoax is a hoax itself. Which explains why family spoke of conspiracy, it's conspiracy about who killed him, not faking death" she goes on to plead, "look at Janet, Latoya, Katherine his kids! They all grieved publicly and spoke publically about his death, he wouldn't do that to them"

I just shake my head and walk away saying "when you hear the news, just remember, I told ya so!" see people forget hoax rule 101, 'just because you read it in a magazine or see it on a tv screen don't make it factual!'

[curls]

@son, are you saying the Jackson family is working it all out the same as we are?  That they don't know if he's dead or alive? That he somehow orchestrated his disappearance plus a body without anyone else's involvement? That the family is questioning the validity of the will because hoaxers did?

I know it's ill-advised to say 'MJ would never do such and such' but I think I'm on fairly solid ground to say MJ would not do that to his mother, at very least, even if it were a remotely desirable or possible-to-pull-off scenario, which IMO it itsn't!

Slightly off at a tangent, I have in mind TS saying the family's actions and reactions (those may not be the exact words he used) is one of the biggest indications of the hoax, and I've often wondered if any difference is noticeable to those who have always followed them.  I'm one who has never been interested in 'celebrity' news, even MJ news, had never heard of TMZ till 2010, so I really don't have anything to compare 'now' with!

So, just out of interest did anyone here follow the Jackson family pre-2009?  How did they behave then?  Were they forever hitting the tabloids?  Are they 'different' nowadays?

@son, my advice, as others have said, is to get reading!  Popular theories around here are here because indiciduals have given them much attention and satisfied themselves as to their validity - there are no thought police (you used the word bureaucracy) dictating what hoaxers should or should not believe, as evidenced by the lack of agreement on almost all aspects of the hoax!

[Australian MJ BeLIEver]

Before, I mentioned my sister believes MJ always had plans to have people wondering if it's really a hoax when he really does die and that there is no hoax, it's all just planted by MJ to appear that way.

After I posted I recalled bec's blog entry about proof which I read a while ago, which addresses a similar notion. Hope you don't mind bec, but just going to post the link, as it's a great read and I think it flows well along the lines of conversation happening on this thread at the mo.

And no, she isn't paying me lol, I just really liked this blog entry :)

http://exploringthehoax.wordpress.com/2012/05/08/what-is-proof/

[MaryK]

Before, I mentioned my sister believes MJ always had plans to have people wondering if it's really a hoax when he really does die and that there is no hoax, it's all just planted by MJ to appear that way.

Lol Aussie, that´s great. I´ve also been there, thinking that might be what happend.
But as bec said: the more you read, the more you will find that this theory is also illogical.
I also started late and I am still reading and learning everyday.
I can only endorse what has been said: read, read and read and then read more and read again  :icon_lol:

[YouRnotAlone7]

What I don't understand is why plan an elaborate hoax when only a small portions of beLIEvers would follow it?  All the people who think MJ is dead probably haven't even thought about him faking his death at all.
Can someone answer this w/o getting mad, frustrated or defensive?....It's just a question!  Do know that I do not think he is dead.....I'm just wanting feedback.

Also, Bec....are you saying that you think the Dr's were telling the truth?

Yeah...this is probably all OLD news and you've probably gone over it 1,000 times, but please humor me or direct me to a place where I can find the answers. :icon_e_smile:

[MaryK]

What I don't understand is why plan an elaborate hoax when only a small portions of beLIEvers would follow it?  All the people who think MJ is dead probably haven't even thought about him faking his death at all.
Can someone answer this w/o getting mad, frustrated or defensive?....It's just a question!  Do know that I do not think he is dead.....I'm just wanting feedback.

Also, Bec....are you saying that you think the Dr's were telling the truth?

Yeah...this is probably all OLD news and you've probably gone over it 1,000 times, but please humor me or direct me to a place where I can find the answers. :icon_e_smile:

I recommend this thread:

http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/index.php?topic=18688.0

The gist is:

If there were no clues about the hoax, then the FBI and/or MJ could be accused of entrapment.  However, and I'm going to let another cat out of the bag here: the hoax forums are a very strong defense against entrapment.  If the FBI or MJ were ever charged of entrapment, all they would need to do is point to the hoax forums as proof that anybody could've figured out MJ did not die, if they really wanted to figure it out.