TS Elliot discussion inspired by Front quote

[skyways]

destination: beginning----> end
destination: end----> beginning
Sometimes one must venture into the opposite direction in order to come full circle and acquire NEW realizations from the SAME window-seat scenery.

Wow dear Mr. Fro_t!!
destination: beginning----> end
destination: end----> beginning
Sometimes one must venture into the opposite direction in order to come full circle and acquire NEW realizations from the SAME window-seat scenery.
THAT particular quotes of Your just openned   full  Phandora   Box , isn't ? ha-ha ;D   -  to more and more interfiere with TS religious posts and all the deep meaning we are (succesefully?)  digging behind the Mega-Global Matrix of your  Hoax.
Shall we beginns? -  from Present   to Past and  and  Back to nowa-days.
So,
May  I highlight  couple  of  immediate thoughts,   that crossed my mind, as I read  ": beginning----> end
: end----> beginning"...

4 Quartets of TS Eliot,  Emerald Tablet,  Hermes Trismegistus, Dionysius the  Areopagite,  hermetism and indian vedas tradition

Besides the fact, that modern literature and ancient wisdom  its one of my faaavorite topick-)) – THAT particular Front's line is DIRECTLY  applying  to many of our researches and study  durind   loong/looud  pre-bam phase.

May I just go straight from the sources and then post lil bit of  digging available from Wiki and els..

HERE we go

East Coker from Four Quartets

In my beginning is my end.  In succession
Houses rise and fall, crumble, are extended,
Are removed, destroyed, restored, or in their place
Is an open field, or a factory, or a by-pass.
Old stone to new building, old timber to new fires,
Old fires to ashes, and ashes to the earth
Which is already flesh, fur and faeces,
Bone of man and beast, cornstalk and leaf.
Houses live and die: there is a time for building
And a time for living and for generation
And a time for the wind to break the loosened pane
And to shake the wainscot where the field-mouse trots
And to shake the tattered arras woven with a silent motto.

[In my beginning is my end. Now the light falls
Across the open field, leaving the deep lane
Shuttered with branches, dark in the afternoon,
Where you lean against a bank while a van passes,
And the deep lane insists on the direction
Into the village, in the electric heat
Hypnotised. In a warm haze the sultry light
Is absorbed, not refracted, by grey stone.
The dahlias sleep in the empty silence.
Wait for the early owl.
In that open field
If you do not come too close, if you do not come too close,
On a Summer midnight, you can hear the music
Of the weak pipe and the little drum
And see them dancing around the bonfire
The association of man and woman
In daunsinge, signifying matrimonie--
A dignified and commodious sacrament.
Two and two, necessarye coniunction,
Holding eche other by the hand or the arm
Whiche betokeneth concorde. Round and round the fire
Leaping through the flames, or joined in circles,
Rustically solemn or in rustic laughter
Lifting heavy feet in clumsy shoes,
Earth feet, loam feet, lifted in country mirth
Mirth of those long since under earth
Nourishing the corn. Keeping time,
Keeping the rhythm in their dancing
As in their living in the living seasons
The time of the seasons and the constellations
The time of milking and the time of harvest
The time of the coupling of man and woman
And that of beasts. Feet rising and falling.
Eating and drinking. Dung and death.

Dawn points, and another day
Prepares for heat and silence. Out at sea the dawn wind
Wrinkles and slides. I am here
Or there, or elsewhere. In my beginning.

T. S. Eliot

Burnt Norton from Four Quartets

Time present and time past
Are both perhaps present in time future,
And time future contained in time past.
If all time is eternally present
All time is unredeemable.
What might have been is an abstraction
Remaining a perpetual possibility
Only in a world of speculation.
What might have been and what has been
Point to one end, which is always present.
Footfalls echo in the memory
Down the passage which we did not take
Towards the door we never opened
Into the rose-garden. My words echo
Thus, in your mind.
But to what purpose
Disturbing the dust on a bowl of rose-leaves
I do not know.
Other echoes
Inhabit the garden. Shall we follow?
Quick, said the bird, find them, find them,
Round the corner. Through the first gate,
Into our first world, shall we follow
The deception of the thrush? Into our first world.
There they were, dignified, invisible,
Moving without pressure, over the dead leaves,
In the autumn heat, through the vibrant air,
And the bird called, in response to
The unheard music hidden in the shrubbery,
And the unseen eyebeam crossed, for the roses
Had the look of flowers that are looked at.
There they were as our guests, accepted and accepting.
So we moved, and they, in a formal pattern,
Along the empty alley, into the box circle,
To look down into the drained pool.
Dry the pool, dry concrete, brown edged,
And the pool was filled with water out of sunlight,
And the lotos rose, quietly, quietly,
The surface glittered out of heart of light,
And they were behind us, reflected in the popool.
Then a cloud passed, and the pool was empty.
Go, said the bird, for the leaves were full of children,
Hidden excitedly, containing laughter.
Go, go, go, said the bird: human kind
Cannot bear very much reality.
Time past and time future
What might have been and what has been
Point to one end, which is always present.

T. S. Eliot

Law of Attraction and the Emerald Tablet of Hermes

The Emerald tablet of Hermes is an essential and core document in the teachings of the Law of Attraction.

The tablet is a short inscription on a green stone and it details the law of attraction and the law of manifestation.
The Emerald was originally thought to have been discovered by "Balinas". He wrote down the entire text in the syriac language.
This stone is so important that many have provided their own translations including the famous Sir Issac Newton.
The Emerald Tablet if Hermes and the Law of Attraction is supported by a number of other independent sources including quantum physics.
The Emerald Tablet is also the basis of spiritual alchem.

Here is a version of the Emerald Tablet of Hermes taken from 12th century Manuscript.

"True without falsehood, certain most certain
What is above is like what is below, and what is below is like that which is above. To make the miracle of the one thing.
And as all things were made from the contemplation of The One, so all things were born again from one adaptation.
It's Father is the Sun, its Mother is the Moon.
The Wind carried it in its womb, the Earth breastfed it.
It is the Father of all works of wonder in the World.
It's power is complete.
If cast to Earth, it will separate Earth from Fire, the subtle from the gross.
With great capacity it ascends from Earth to Heaven. Again it descends to Earth, and takes back the power of the above and below.
Thus you will receive the glory of the distinctiveness of the World. All obscurity will flee from you.
This is the whole most strong strength of all strength, for it overcomes all subtle things, and penetrates all solid things.
Thus the World was created.
From this comes marvellous adaptations of which this is the procedure.
Therefore I am called Hermes Thrice Crowned, because I have three parts of the wisdom of the whole World.
And complete is what I had to say about the work of the Sun.

[skyways]

BASIC INTERPETATION:
The text of the Emerald Tablet starts by affirming that everything that follows is Universally true and accurate, and applies to "everything that is" without any exception.
"What is above is like what is below, and what is below is like that which is above. To make the miracle of the one thing":
This statement affirms the entire Universe in all spheres of reality is not separate in any way whatsoever, but is rather a continuum from the very highest aspect of "The One", "The Source", the "First Cause", down to the physical world of matter. This phrase also affirms the continuum of the Universe is equally effective and integral in all directions, above and below, below and above, all working in complete harmony as an inseparable aspect of the whole.
The adaption of the one thing is where creation get's its various colors, expressions, why stars are stars and planets are planets. They are an adaption of the One. Likewise the universe is an expression of mind, and as such we were given mind to co-create with the One, as we too are an expression of the One. This co-creation happens first in the mind, and then in the physical world. " As above so Below."

"It's Father is the Sun, its Mother is the Moon."
This is analogous to the creative process whereby the sperm of the father seeks the egg of the mother, the constant cycles of the Sun and the Moon representing the rhythm of the Universe and infinite creation.
"The Wind carried it in its womb, the Earth breastfed it":
In this statement, "wind" is analogous to the Universal Mind as opposed to the physical element of Air, which is the mediator of the Universal elements of Fire and Water. Wind or Air as a mediation of Fire and Water therefore represents the forces involved behind the process of creation, ultimately resulting in the final Universal element of Earth in the creation process; Earth representing solidification. Earth nourishes the creation thereby providing for independent form and existence as can be clearly witnessed by the presence of the physical world of matter.
"It is the Father of all works of wonder in the World":
Father represents the Prime Creator, The One, The All, the First Cause, the Quintessence of the four elements of Fire, Air, Water and Earth, the Ether, often known as "God" from Whom the aforementioned processes originated.
This process is continued by you. We are co-creators with the One or First Cause because we spring forth from the One. In this we can create our own reality, and this is largely accomplished by the Law of Attraction. It is important to note, that everything external or Macrocosmic is also Microcosmic.
With great capacity it ascends from Earth to Heaven. Again it descends to Earth, and takes back the power of the above and below."
This statement refers largly to the process known as the law of Vibration. However, it expresses the concept of the Law of Attraction, as the above is attracted to the below and the below to the above. Sincve the universe is primarily an expression of mind, it is vital that we monitor our thoughts as this is the microcosmic represenative of the above, and therefore that which we create in the heavens will descend to the earth and become our reality. Literally every millionaire claims that first their money was made in their mind, and then it became reality in their physical existence. It is the same with health and everything else.
This statement then goes on to tell us that the powers, the Consciousness of The One then descended a second time to Earth integrating all aspects "above and below", thus finally resulting in a fully aware force infinitely uniting the "above" with the "below" as integral aspects of the continuum of the entire Universe, from the very highest to the physical world
"Thus you will receive the glory of the distinctiveness of the World. All obscurity will flee from you":
This confirms that as a result of the processes thus involved, with force descending into form during the original act of creation, and form then acting upon itself with Consciousness once again ascending into a formless state.
The phrase all obscurity will flee from you is about being specific. It reminds you as co-creator to be specific with your thoughts and your goals. The law of Attraction works best when you are specific.

"This is the whole most strong strength of all strength, for it overcomes all subtle things, and penetrates all solid things":
This confirms that through the act of creation as previously described, the Consciousness of The One is "whole", complete and of infinite strength, and with the ability to work without restriction in all directions of the continuum of the Universe from above to the below and below to the above at any level of density and vibration, and in particular the power to surpass any "upwards" travelling entity. This statement also confirms your potientlal to do the same. You have the power thorught the Law of Attraction or what others call the Magic of Light to create the Universe you want. Therefore when you read the healdlines in the Newspaper, do not get angry, rather ask why you have created this world, and begin creating a world that is more in keeping with you values. There is nothing you can overcome, for all subtle things, thoughts and the spirit of thoughts can penatrate all solid things.

"Thus the World was created":
This confirms by this process of force descending into form thus realising self-awareness, followed by another cycle of creation, followed by a further descent into form, this eventually results in the physical "world", or more specifically the entire physical Universe of matter in the space-time reality. The world you create through your own inner magic is first created in the world of Spirit. This is the first creation, and from it descends back and forth creating the world of matter. Thus the law of vibration and the Law of Attraction play a special role in creating the world you want.

[skyways]

"From this comes marvellous adaptations of which this is the procedure":
The "marvellous adaptations" referred to here is the physical Universe of matter, the physical World known to everyone that is indeed a marvellous adaptation of The One. It should be noted that beyond the physical Universe everything consists of subtle Energy in the form of vibration, and physical matter simply does not exist. Therefore by comparison the physical Universe is indeed "marvellous adaptations". David Bohm, eminent physicist, very aptly describes the physical Universe as "frozen light".
Everything and everyone in the Universe, including the physical Universe, contains the Light of The One, the physical Universe thus created becoming the seed of the future ultimate self of The One, and thus the creative act.
the physical world of matter humans therefore "adapt

"Therefore I am called Hermes Thrice Crowned, because I have three parts of the wisdom of the whole World":
This statement is not intended to be a self-proclamation of greatness on the part of Hermes but rather represents the trinity of the levels or aspects of the continuum of the Universe; physical, Astral and Mental.

"And complete is what I had to say about the work of the Sun":
This final statement affirms the testimony of Hermes as to the creation and true nature of the Universe. Hermes Trismegistus, Hermes the Thrice Crowned, was indeed a true symbolic "messenger of the Gods. The work of the sun expresses the Divine creative process that we all go through in the creation of the universe and in the creation of our own lives.
This is a basic overview of the Tablet of Hermes. You can use this formula to create a world of harmony and love or a world of hate and anger. We share the choice. We are co-creators with the Divine Source, the One, the All. The Source expresses itself through us.
The Mentor of Light,
Robert Zink
Miracle Mentoring and Alchemy Life Coaching

Hermes Trismegistus  is allegetly  a myphological   "Father "   of  Emerald Tablet -  one of the earliest  sacred  manuscript , known  in a history ( besides Rigveda in Hinduism and  Egyptian early text  - which all linked togethr) .
Often he is mistaken with  Dionysius the  Areopagite,  one of the Platonic  phylosophers and follower of Hermesys tradition, that , in fact , also known as a   Hermetism.
He wrote one of the most basis descriptions of Angelic cretures --  The Celestial Hierarchy  by Dionysius the Areopagite   and THE MYSTICAL THEOLOGY   which content
I. What is the Divine Darkness?
II. The necessity of being united with and of rendering praise to Him who is the Cause of all and above all
III. What are the affirmations and negations concerning God?
IV. That He who is the pre-eminent Cause of all things sensibly perceived is not Himself any of those things
V. That He who is the pre-eminent Cause of all things intelligibly perceived is not Himself any of those things
its veery long -- let me know if I should copy/paste for our study  or move to the religious thred. )))
I hope you truly enjoyed that masterpieces  of  art - thinking and esoterical wisdom and  I will  post lil bit of  research  behind that all names,  as soon as I compose   from all info, that is possible scrab on fast net surface.

BLESSINGS and LOVE  to you my Dear Family!@@

[skyways]

Dear Mods!
I wl be so appreciated if my 4 last posts can b linked all together  - for some strange reason its not allow me to have long text there or give the net link or even  change color on some lines that apply more appropriate or i    find     more important.

Long text keep give me "EMTPHY"  message  and would not go. ((

THANX AGAIN FOR ALL YOR HARD WORK  - u are my Heros!! @@

p.s.  I still have some of my findings in store- to support the above  statement - not sure how to post now?  Lil by lil?..

[lettingitsimmer]

destination: beginning----> end
destination: end----> beginning
Sometimes one must venture into the opposite direction in order to come full circle and acquire NEW realizations from the SAME window-seat scenery.

Wow dear Mr. Fro_t!!
destination: beginning----> end
destination: end----> beginning
Sometimes one must venture into the opposite direction in order to come full circle and acquire NEW realizations from the SAME window-seat scenery.
THAT particular quotes of Your just openned   full  Phandora   Box , isn't ? ha-ha ;D   -  to more and more interfiere with TS religious posts and all the deep meaning we are (succesefully?)  digging behind the Mega-Global Matrix of your  Hoax.
Shall we beginns? -  from Present   to Past and  and  Back to nowa-days.
So,
May  I highlight  couple  of  immediate thoughts,   that crossed my mind, as I read  ": beginning----> end
: end----> beginning"...

4 Quartets of TS Eliot,  Emerald Tablet,  Hermes Trismegistus, Dionysius the  Areopagite,  hermetism and indian vedas tradition

Besides the fact, that modern literature and ancient wisdom  its one of my faaavorite topick-)) – THAT particular Front's line is DIRECTLY  applying  to many of our researches and study  durind   loong/looud  pre-bam phase.

May I just go straight from the sources and then post lil bit of  digging available from Wiki and els..

HERE we go

East Coker from Four Quartets

In my beginning is my end.  In succession
Houses rise and fall, crumble, are extended,
Are removed, destroyed, restored, or in their place
Is an open field, or a factory, or a by-pass.
Old stone to new building, old timber to new fires,
Old fires to ashes, and ashes to the earth
Which is already flesh, fur and faeces,
Bone of man and beast, cornstalk and leaf.
Houses live and die: there is a time for building
And a time for living and for generation
And a time for the wind to break the loosened pane
And to shake the wainscot where the field-mouse trots
And to shake the tattered arras woven with a silent motto.

[In my beginning is my end. Now the light falls
Across the open field, leaving the deep lane
Shuttered with branches, dark in the afternoon,
Where you lean against a bank while a van passes,
And the deep lane insists on the direction
Into the village, in the electric heat
Hypnotised. In a warm haze the sultry light
Is absorbed, not refracted, by grey stone.
The dahlias sleep in the empty silence.
Wait for the early owl.
In that open field
If you do not come too close, if you do not come too close,
On a Summer midnight, you can hear the music
Of the weak pipe and the little drum
And see them dancing around the bonfire
The association of man and woman
In daunsinge, signifying matrimonie--
A dignified and commodious sacrament.
Two and two, necessarye coniunction,
Holding eche other by the hand or the arm
Whiche betokeneth concorde. Round and round the fire
Leaping through the flames, or joined in circles,
Rustically solemn or in rustic laughter
Lifting heavy feet in clumsy shoes,
Earth feet, loam feet, lifted in country mirth
Mirth of those long since under earth
Nourishing the corn. Keeping time,
Keeping the rhythm in their dancing
As in their living in the living seasons
The time of the seasons and the constellations
The time of milking and the time of harvest
The time of the coupling of man and woman
And that of beasts. Feet rising and falling.
Eating and drinking. Dung and death.

Dawn points, and another day
Prepares for heat and silence. Out at sea the dawn wind
Wrinkles and slides. I am here
Or there, or elsewhere. In my beginning.

T. S. Eliot

Burnt Norton from Four Quartets

Time present and time past
Are both perhaps present in time future,
And time future contained in time past.
If all time is eternally present
All time is unredeemable.
What might have been is an abstraction
Remaining a perpetual possibility
Only in a world of speculation.
What might have been and what has been
Point to one end, which is always present.
Footfalls echo in the memory
Down the passage which we did not take
Towards the door we never opened
Into the rose-garden. My words echo
Thus, in your mind.
But to what purpose
Disturbing the dust on a bowl of rose-leaves
I do not know.
Other echoes
Inhabit the garden. Shall we follow?
Quick, said the bird, find them, find them,
Round the corner. Through the first gate,
Into our first world, shall we follow
The deception of the thrush? Into our first world.
There they were, dignified, invisible,
Moving without pressure, over the dead leaves,
In the autumn heat, through the vibrant air,
And the bird called, in response to
The unheard music hidden in the shrubbery,
And the unseen eyebeam crossed, for the roses
Had the look of flowers that are looked at.
There they were as our guests, accepted and accepting.
So we moved, and they, in a formal pattern,
Along the empty alley, into the box circle,
To look down into the drained pool.
Dry the pool, dry concrete, brown edged,
And the pool was filled with water out of sunlight,
And the lotos rose, quietly, quietly,
The surface glittered out of heart of light,
And they were behind us, reflected in the popool.
Then a cloud passed, and the pool was empty.
Go, said the bird, for the leaves were full of children,
Hidden excitedly, containing laughter.
Go, go, go, said the bird: human kind
Cannot bear very much reality.
Time past and time future
What might have been and what has been
Point to one end, which is always present.

T. S. Eliot

Wow great thoughts and  quotes Skyways!  Thanks for all your time and effort! Yes, I feel that there is no need to be a "HollowMan" (T.S.Eliot)  ( or Woman) and no need to "pay the ferryman.."  So, I guess it is about >> "Be Here Now"?!  We draw to us what we think,do,say to ourselves and others,  imagine ,and visualize at any moment in time.. The Law of Attraction..>> positive self talk and positve actions .. can change our ( inner and outer) world! We can light up the darkness inside us and outside us..and come out into the sunshine..!! All we need is L.O.V.E. (Thanks M.J. and  J. L.)xx

[skyways]

Thank you SIMMER for brotherly  L.O.V.E.! :icon_razz: :icon_razz:

...there is actually a lot of great things behind reason and meaning for those famous TS Eliot quote, I am sure know ))-  in my beginning is my end...---  and just to kill late time and find more connection about the Man we never meant to know)),
I will take some liberty to post what we have on the net in brief surface.

So, East Coker come first...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Coker_(poem)

East Coker (poem)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Poem
East Coker is described as a poem of late summer, earth, and faith.

[7] As in the other poems of the Four Quartets, each of the five sections holds a theme that is common to each of the poems: time, experience, purgation, prayer, and wholeness.[8] The time theme is stated in the first section as 'In my beginning is my end' which, given proper attention, might prove to lead into the eternal moment.
The second section discusses disorder within nature, which is opposite to the discussion of order within nature found in the second section of Burnt Norton.

[9] Also, rational knowledge itself is described as being inadequate for explaining reality. Those who pursue only reason and science are ignorant. Even our progress is not progress as we continue to repeat the same errors as the past.[10]
The third section discusses the rulers of secular society and their flaws. The fourth, which is a formal section, deploys a series of Baroque paradoxes in the context of the Good Friday mass. This past manner is regarded ironically by the poet in the fifth section as he looks back on his period of experimentation in 'the years of l'entre deux guerres' as 'largely wasted'. He welcomes approaching old age as a new opportunity to find renewal, although it might only be a rediscovery of 'what has been lost and found and lost again'.

Despite the poem's doubt and darkness, a note of hope is struck by the first line of the fifth section, 'So here I am in the middle way'. This refers to the first line of

Dante's Inferno, 'Midway in our life's journey, I went astray'.[11] Although the descent is predicated on going astray, so also is persevering beyond it into the light.

East Coker from Four Quartets

In my beginning is my end. In succession
Houses rise and fall, crumble, are extended,
Are removed, destroyed, restored, or in their place
Is an open field, or a factory, or a by-pass.
Old stone to new building, old timber to new fires,
Old fires to ashes, and ashes to the earth
Which is already flesh, fur and faeces,
Bone of man and beast, cornstalk and leaf.
Houses live and die: there is a time for building
And a time for living and for generation
And a time for the wind to break the loosened pane
And to shake the wainscot where the field-mouse trots
And to shake the tattered arras woven with a silent motto.

In my beginning is my end. Now the light falls
Across the open field, leaving the deep lane
Shuttered with branches, dark in the afternoon,
Where you lean against a bank while a van passes,
And the deep lane insists on the direction
Into the village, in the electric heat
Hypnotised. In a warm haze the sultry light
Is absorbed, not refracted, by grey stone.
The dahlias sleep in the empty silence.
Wait for the early owl.
In that open field
If you do not come too close, if you do not come too close,
On a Summer midnight, you can hear the music
Of the weak pipe and the little drum
And see them dancing around the bonfire
The association of man and woman
In daunsinge, signifying matrimonie--
A dignified and commodious sacrament.
Two and two, necessarye coniunction,
Holding eche other by the hand or the arm
Whiche betokeneth concorde. Round and round the fire
Leaping through the flames, or joined in circles,
Rustically solemn or in rustic laughter
Lifting heavy feet in clumsy shoes,
Earth feet, loam feet, lifted in country mirth
Mirth of those long since under earth
Nourishing the corn. Keeping time,
Keeping the rhythm in their dancing
As in their living in the living seasons
The time of the seasons and the constellations
The time of milking and the time of harvest
The time of the coupling of man and woman
And that of beasts. Feet rising and falling.
Eating and drinking. Dung and death.

Dawn points, and another day
Prepares for heat and silence. Out at sea the dawn wind
Wrinkles and slides. I am here
Or there, or elsewhere. In my beginning.

T. S. Eliot

[skyways]

here is lil of info for metaphysical meaning in Eliots genius art work  ---  ancient quote of Beginnig-end/End is beginning --- its the corner stone of that  set of poems, that linking together many  great wisdom into one bold and inspiring vision....

So, here is goes Wiki:

Four Quartets is a set of four poems written by T. S. Eliot that were published individually over a six-year period. The first poem, Burnt Norton, was written and published with a collection of his early works following the production of Eliot's play Murder in the Cathedral.
Poems

Each poem has five sections. The later poems connect to the earlier sections with Little Gidding synthesizing the themes of the earlier poems within its sections.[14] Within Eliot's own poetry, the five sections connect to The Waste Land. This allowed Eliot to structure his larger poems, which he had difficulty with.[15]

According to C.K. Stead, the structure is based on:[16]

1. The movement of time, in which brief moments of eternity are caught.
2. Worldly experience, leading on to dissatisfaction.
3. Purgation in the world, divesting the soul of the love of created things.
4. A lyric prayer for, or affirmation of the need of, Intercession.
5. The problems of attaining artistic wholeness which becomes analogue for, and merge into, the problems of achieving spiritual health.

These points can be applied to the structure of The Waste Land, though there is not necessarily a fulfillment of these but merely a longing or discussion of them.[17]

Eliot's poetry is filled with religious images beyond those common to Christianity: the Four Quartets brings in Hindu stories with a particular emphasis on the Bhagavad-Gita of the Mahabharata.[39] Eliot went so far as to mark where he alludes to Hindu stories in his editions of the Mahabharata by including a page added which compared battle scenes with The Dry Salvages.[40]

Music

The title Four Quartets connects to music, which appears also in Eliot's poems "Preludes", "Rhapsody on a Windy Night", and "A Song for Simeon" along with a 1942 lecture called "The Music of Poetry". Some critics have suggested that there were various classical works that Eliot focused on while writing the pieces.[15] In particular, within literary criticism there is an emphasis on Beethoven serving as a model, although these claims rarely pan out.[7] The purpose of the quartet was to have multiple themes that intertwined with each other. Each section, as in the musical image, would be distinct even though they share the same performance. East Coker and The Dry Salvages are written in such a way as to make the poems continuous and create a "double-quartet".[32]

Eliot focused on sounds or "auditory imagination", as he called it. He doesn't always keep to this device, especially when he is more concerned with thematic development. He did fix many of these passages in revision.

Krishna

Eliot's poetry is filled with religious images beyond those common to Christianity: the Four Quartets brings in Hindu stories with a particular emphasis on the Bhagavad-Gita of the Mahabharata.[39] Eliot went so far as to mark where he alludes to Hindu stories in his editions of the Mahabharata by including a page added which compared battle scenes with The Dry Salvages.[40]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burnt_Norton

[skyways]

Burnt Norton  is also deserve its own page, as it is have many cross-roads with MJ mission - what he seems stand against of and also what he is fighti_g for.@@

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burnt_Norton

Burnt Norton
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Burnt Norton is the first poem of T. S. Eliot's Four Quartets.
He created it while working on his play Murder in the Cathedral and it was first published in his Collected Poems 1909–1935 (1936). The poem's title refers to a Cotswolds manor house Eliot visited. The manor's garden served as an important image within the poem. Structurally, the poem is based on Eliot's The Waste Land with passages of the poem related to those excised from Murder in the Cathedral.

The central discussion within the poem is on the nature of time and salvation. Eliot emphasizes the need of the individual to focus on the present moment and to know that there is a universal order. By understanding the nature of time and the order of the universe, mankind is able to recognize God and seek redemption. Many reviewers of Burnt Norton focused on the uniqueness and beauty of the poem. However, others complained that the poem does not reflect Eliot's earlier greatness and that the use of Christian themes harmed the poem.

Epigraphs

The poem begins with two epigraphs taken from the fragments of Heraclitus:

τοῦ λόγον δέ ἐόντος ξενοῦ ζώουσιν οἱ πολλοί
ὡς ἰδίαν ἔχοντες φρόνησιν
I. p. 77. Fr. 2.
ὁδὸς ἄνω κάτω μία καὶ ὡυτή
I. p. 89 Fr. 60.
The first may be translated, "Though wisdom is common, the many live as if they have wisdom of their own"; the second, "the way upward and the way downward is one and the same."

Poem

The poem was the first of Eliot's that relied on speech, with a narrator who speaks to the audience directly.[12] Described as a poem of early summer, air, and grace, it begins with a narrator recalling a moment in a garden.
The scene provokes a discussion on time and how the present, not the future or past, really matters to individuals. Memories connect the individual to the past, but the past cannot change. The poem then transitions from memory to how life works and the point of existence.
In particular, the universe is described as orderly and that consciousness is not found within time even though humanity is bound by time. The scene of the poem moves from a garden to the London underground where technology dominates. Those who cling to technology and reason are unable to understand the universe or the Logos ("the Word", or Christ). The underworld is replaced by a churchyard and a discussion on death.

This, in turn, becomes a discussion of timelessness and eternity, which ends the poem.[13]

[skyways]

Murder in the Cathedral

is directly linking to   Burnt Norton  and also amizingly fit with Michael"s feat.  ))  :bowdown:

Its a verse drama by T. S. Eliot that portrays the assassination of Archbishop Thomas Becket in Canterbury Cathedral in 1170, first performed in 1935. Eliot drew heavily on the writing of Edward Grim, a clerk who was an eyewitness to the event.

The play, dealing with an individual's opposition to authority, was written at the time of rising Fascism in Central Europe, and can be taken as a protest to individuals in affected countries to oppose the Nazi regime's subversion of the ideals of the Christian Church.[1]

Some material that the producer asked Eliot to remove or replace during the writing was transformed into the poem "Burnt Norton".[

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_in_the_Cathedral

Plot

The action occurs between December 2 and December 29, 1170, chronicling the days leading up to the martyrdom of Thomas Becket following his absence of seven years in France. Becket's internal struggle is the main focus of the play.

The play is divided into two "parts" separated by an "interlude". Part one takes place in the Archbishop's hall on December 2, 1170. The play begins with a Chorus singing, foreshadowing the coming violence. The Chorus is a key part of the drama, with its voice changing and developing during the play, offering comments about the action and providing a link between the audience and the characters and action, as in Greek drama. Three priests are present, and they reflect on the absence of Becket and the rise of temporal power. A herald announces Becket's arrival. Becket is immediately reflective about his coming martyrdom, which he embraces, and which is understood to be a sign of his own selfishness—his fatal weakness. The tempters arrive, three of whom parallel the Temptations of Christ.

The first tempter offers the prospect of physical safety.

Take a friend's advice. Leave well alone,
Or your goose may be cooked and eaten to the bone.
The second offers power, riches and fame in serving the King.

To set down the great, protect the poor,
Beneath the throne of God can man do more?
The third tempter suggests a coalition with the barons and a chance to resist the King.

For us, Church favour would be an advantage,
Blessing of Pope powerful protection
In the fight for liberty. You, my Lord,
In being with us, would fight a good stroke
Finally, a fourth tempter urges him to seek the glory of martyrdom.

You hold the keys of heaven and hell.
Power to bind and loose : bind, Thomas, bind,
King and bishop under your heel.
King, emperor, bishop, baron, king:
Becket responds to all of the tempters and specifically addresses the immoral suggestions of the fourth tempter at the end of the first act:

Now is my way clear, now is the meaning plain:
Temptation shall not come in this kind again.
The last temptation is the greatest treason:
To do the right deed for the wrong reason.
The Interlude of the play is a sermon given by Becket on Christmas morning 1170. It is about the strange contradiction that Christmas is a day both of mourning and rejoicing, which Christians also do for martyrs. He announces at the end of his sermon, "it is possible that in a short time you may have yet another martyr". We see in the sermon something of Becket's ultimate peace of mind, as he elects not to seek sainthood, but to accept his death as inevitable and part of a better whole.

Part II of the play takes place in the Archbishop's Hall and in the Cathedral, December 29, 1170. Four knights arrive with "Urgent business" from the king. These knights had heard the king speak of his frustration with Becket, and had interpreted this as an order to kill Becket. They accuse him of betrayal, and he claims to be loyal. He tells them to accuse him in public, and they make to attack him, but priests intervene. The priests insist that he leave and protect himself, but he refuses. The knights leave and Becket again says he is ready to die. The chorus sings that they knew this conflict was coming, that it had long been in the fabric of their lives, both temporal and spiritual. The chorus again reflects on the coming devastation. Thomas is taken to the Cathedral, where the knights break in and kill him. The chorus laments: "Clean the air! Clean the sky!", and "The land is foul, the water is foul, our beasts and ourselves defiled with blood." At the close of the play, the knights step up, address the audience, and defend their actions. The murder was all right and for the best: it was in the right spirit, sober, and justified so that the church's power would not undermine stability and state power.''

On my view here we go with Church and Rock-n-Roll  from K.Ortega,  Latoyas shouting MURDER<,   Michael-Marture,  etc....

We still left out ancient wisdom of Hermes, Emerald Tablet, Dionisy Arheopagit,  Rigveda and Egyptian connection..

Let me know if you still interested  for lil exerecise and I will share my findings in next time@@@.

Appreciated all your thoughts and time on that matter and really feel that beauty behind KOP mask  will guide us on our digging more further to the TRUTH!

In fact Poetry and Music is reach out Verity itself as a bold -lighting.>>>

[lettingitsimmer]

Hi Skyways.. L.O.V.E back!!   Great posts .. all reaching for the Connection.. trains ,travelling..in same direction with passengers on their individual journeys at different paces with different experiences. Add the Law of Attraction( what we say /do/ think, how we act.. are all a product of our conscious self- talk and our choices  (either negative or positive)..  souls.. start to feel the connection to ALL , "we are ONE," living from the soul-level, heartfelt, innate wisdom discovered, seeking inner balance/calm/peace/ and keeping ego in check.?
Cosmic Consciousness? Self Realization? Humanity Lost and Found?

I once read ( Emerson) >>"Life is a journey, not a destination!"
It is amazing what one finds on the refrigerator! LOL!
" Be Here Now".. xx             :compute:

[pikachu]

destination: beginning----> end
destination: end----> beginning
Sometimes one must venture into the opposite direction in order to come full circle and acquire NEW realizations from the SAME window-seat scenery.

Wow dear Mr. Fro_t!!
THAT particular quotes of Your just openned   full  Phandora   Box , isn't ? ha-ha ;D   -  to more and more interfiere with TS religious posts and all the deep meaning we are (succesefully?)  digging behind the Mega-Global Matrix of your  Hoax.
Shall we beginns? -  from Present   to Past and  and  Back to nowa-days.

Murder in the Cathedral

is directly linking to   Burnt Norton  and also amizingly fit with Michael"s feat.  ))  :bowdown:

Its a verse drama by T. S. Eliot that portrays the assassination of Archbishop Thomas Becket in Canterbury Cathedral in 1170, first performed in 1935. Eliot drew heavily on the writing of Edward Grim, a clerk who was an eyewitness to the event.

those are great quotes, of course, I love Eliot too, but with the same success
you may start quoting here the whole world literature and entire Wikipedia.
for this tale is as old as time. no need to dig sooo deep,
the meaning of Front's words is on the surface... all is simple.
as zen ; )

[MJonmind]

Wow, Skyways, I can see poetry/literature is your specialty/passion!  Front just has that knack of inspiring us!
Blessings!

[lettingitsimmer]

destination: beginning----> end
destination: end----> beginning
Sometimes one must venture into the opposite direction in order to come full circle and acquire NEW realizations from the SAME window-seat scenery.

Wow dear Mr. Fro_t!!
THAT particular quotes of Your just openned   full  Phandora   Box , isn't ? ha-ha ;D   -  to more and more interfiere with TS religious posts and all the deep meaning we are (succesefully?)  digging behind the Mega-Global Matrix of your  Hoax.
Shall we beginns? -  from Present   to Past and  and  Back to nowa-days.

Murder in the Cathedral

is directly linking to   Burnt Norton  and also amizingly fit with Michael"s feat.  ))  :bowdown:

Its a verse drama by T. S. Eliot that portrays the assassination of Archbishop Thomas Becket in Canterbury Cathedral in 1170, first performed in 1935. Eliot drew heavily on the writing of Edward Grim, a clerk who was an eyewitness to the event.

those are great quotes, of course, I love Eliot too, but with the same success
you may start quoting here the whole world literature and entire Wikipedia.
for this tale is as old as time. no need to dig sooo deep,
the meaning of Front's words is on the surface... all is simple.
as zen ; )

I agree..Be  here now.. L.OV.E.  simplicity..  xx

[Sarahli]

Wow, Skyways, I can see poetry/literature is your specialty/passion!  Front just has that knack of inspiring us!
Blessings!

Yes it seems like that.  :compute: Very interesting Skyways, thank you for sharing.  :bearhug:

[titania]

Here's a thought regarding TS Eliot and all that jazz...

I wonder if FRONT might not be our very own Skimbleshanks at large in charge of the Hoax Train.....

Skimbleshanks: The Railway Cat

There's a whisper down the line at 11.39
When the Night Mail's ready to depart,
Saying "Skimble where is Skimble has he gone to hunt the thimble?
We must find him or the train can't start."
All the guards and all the porters and the stationmaster's daughters
They are searching high and low,
Saying "Skimble where is Skimble for unless he's very nimble
Then the Night Mail just can't go."
At 11.42 then the signal's nearly due
And the passengers are frantic to a man—
Then Skimble will appear and he'll saunter to the rear:
He's been busy in the luggage van!

He gives one flash of his glass-green eyes
And the signal goes "All Clear!"
And we're off at last for the northern part
Of the Northern Hemisphere!

You may say that by and large it is Skimble who's in charge
Of the Sleeping Car Express.
From the driver and the guards to the bagmen playing cards
He will supervise them all, more or less.
Down the corridor he paces and examines all the faces
Of the travellers in the First and the Third;
He establishes control by a regular patrol
And he'd know at once if anything occurred.
He will watch you without winking and he sees what you are thinking
And it's certain that he doesn't approve
Of hilarity and riot, so the folk are very quiet
When Skimble is about and on the move.
You can play no pranks with Skimbleshanks!
He's a Cat that cannot be ignored;
So nothing goes wrong on the Northern Mail
When Skimbleshanks is aboard.

Oh, it's very pleasant when you have found your little den
With your name written up on the door.
And the berth is very neat with a newly folded sheet
And there's not a speck of dust on the floor.
There is every sort of light-you can make it dark or bright;
There's a handle that you turn to make a breeze.
There's a funny little basin you're supposed to wash your face in
And a crank to shut the window if you sneeze.
Then the guard looks in politely and will ask you very brightly
"Do you like your morning tea weak or strong?"
But Skimble's just behind him and was ready to remind him,
For Skimble won't let anything go wrong.
And when you creep into your cosy berth
And pull up the counterpane,
You ought to reflect that it's very nice
To know that you won't be bothered by mice—
You can leave all that to the Railway Cat,
The Cat of the Railway Train!

In the watches of the night he is always fresh and bright;
Every now and then he has a cup of tea
With perhaps a drop of Scotch while he's keeping on the watch,
Only stopping here and there to catch a flea.
You were fast asleep at Crewe and so you never knew
That he was walking up and down the station;
You were sleeping all the while he was busy at Carlisle,
Where he greets the stationmaster with elation.
But you saw him at Dumfries, where he speaks to the police
If there's anything they ought to know about:
When you get to Gallowgate there you do not have to wait—
For Skimbleshanks will help you to get out!
He gives you a wave of his long brown tail
Which says: "I'll see you again!
You'll meet without fail on the Midnight Mail
The Cat of the Railway Train."

Purrrrrrr.......

Titania