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ABC7 Court News @ABC7Courts 10 ago
That was the end of Randy's deposition. Court adjourned until Monday at 10 am PT. AEG has not announced who the next witness is.
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A: I don't remember saying that, but that doesn't mean I didn't say it. I kind of felt that way at the time.
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Q: Do you recall telling Randy Phillips that you see that Michael was fortunate to have AEG involved in his return to the stage?
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Randy: I practically slept there to put the show together.
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Q: Did you have a positive experience with AEG?
A: Horrible! (laughs) No, I'm just joking. They were nice. They were very nice.
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Randy said he pushed everything to the side and was getting together this memorial for him and did it with AEG, Kenny Ortega and those guys.
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"I haven't even buried my brother yet," Randy said.
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Randy: We were still trying to figure out how to grieve, and these people are in court, and will, and this nonsense.
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Randy: After MJ died, everyone was shocked. I was really displeased with all the stuff that was going on in court with Branca, Weitzman.
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"Sometimes he would isolate himself because he didn't want people to hear his voice" Randy said.
Q: Because he might be using drugs?
A: Yes
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Q: Did you speak with him regularly?
A: I don't talk to anyone in my family regularly.
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Q: Was he doing it in the 5 years before his death? Isolated?
A: Oh, parts, parts of it.
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That was probably the first one, the first intervention, Randy said.
Q: Was MJ isolating himself?
A: Yeah, he would do that.
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Q: Did he seem he was using drugs at that time?
A: Yes, his speech was slurred, but nothing terrible.
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Randy said in Taiwan they visited him, gave him family love, wanted to make him feel comforted so he wouldn't think about doing those things
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Randy: I dind't know anything but we had heard things. That's why we were there.
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Randy said what spurred him to go to Taiwan was the fact that he needed help, he was far away, we said we need to go.
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Q: Did you go to Taiwan?
A: Yes, with Rebbie and some family members
MJ was doing shows in Taiwan.
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Randy talked about interventions in NY, Neverland, Las Vegas. And there was another intervention in Taiwan.
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After being turned down, Randy would then go home.
Q: After Carolwood, did you or father take any other action?
A: No, after that time no.
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They told Randy "he's not here, he's not there." Randy questioned if he wasn't there why they had the gate closed. "Open it up, no big deal"
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Q: Who did you see there?
A: Security guard.
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Randy: My dad and I tried to get the house at Carolwood. They wouldn't let me through. My brother didn't want me to see him like that.
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Q: Do you know if he slept well while on tour?
A: He slept well
Randy said MJ had no issues sleeping that he knew of.
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Randy: He was doing good in Ireland from what I recall. 06-7, 07-08 around that time.
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Randy said the last time Grace called was a long time ago. "I made my presence known, there wasn't lot more. She didn't need to call."
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Those were the only two times Randy saw him under the influence. "I'd get calls from Grace all the time," he said.
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Randy: He didn't know who to trust, because people around him were lying to him, telling him things just to secure their positions.
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He said MJ had slurry speech. "He was really frightened to go to that courtroom."
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Randy: Then I later found out she had gotten him a patch. I was livid.
Randy doesn't know what kind of patch it was.
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Randy said that when Grace was around MJ, he was under the some kind of influence. "But we had him go to court and had the doctor with him"
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Q: Was he in the hospital because he had reaction to his drug use?
Randy: No. He was in the hospital because he didn't want to go to court.
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Randy: And I said "Okay, but you are going to court." He goes "No, I'm not."
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Randy: I went to hospital MJ said "I don't know what you're thinking. I'm not walking into that courtroom so don't even think about it Randy
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Randy: He didn't want to go to court. He didn't show up to court. And I was freaking out because it was on the news.
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Randy said MJ was really scared before the Santa Maria trial. And somehow Grace was able to get him something.
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Randy: He would get physical with me, I wouldn't be afraid to say no. But he was 90 pounds, it wouldn't do much.
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Randy: MJ didn't want to talk to me too much. Because maybe I wasn't afraid to say no to him.
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Randy: Did she ever believe he had a problem? Yeah, but I think she was in denial, she didn't want to believe it.
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Randy: My mom, you know, she would mever want to believe it. She's a mom, you know. I felt bad for my her.
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The letter was MJ's idea, Randy said.
Q: Did you mom sign it?
A: My mom, LaToya, all my brothers.
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He said he wasn't behind the article, but didn't sign the letter. Janet, Rebbie and his dad didn't sign it either.
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Randy said MJ got people in his family to sign a letter that was on People Mag saying he never used drugs. "I was really disturbed by that."
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"I fired them both that's probably whay they said it," Randy opined. "It had nothing to do with me."
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Randy: Grace and actually Raymone Bain because I fired them both.
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Randy: There was a People Magazine article coming out talking about his drug use. Grace told him that I was behind putting this article out.
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Randy: He was using it again because there was a... it was quite disturbing to me.
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Q: Were all of the interventions were before the Santa Maria trial?
A: There was one after, the Vegas was after.
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Randy: I fired her again, I noticed when she was around there was a pattern. Whenever she's around, he's wasted. So I fired her again.
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Randy said he started right before Santa Maria trial but he got MJ clean. He told Rebbie "don't leave his side" because I didn't trust Grace
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"He was in a great place," Randy said. "Then Grace came back around and he started using it again. I was very pissed off about it."
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Randy said MJ would really, relaly enjoyed being around his children. He would cook for them.
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Randy: When I was helping with the situation in Santa Maria I was able to make it stop. I fired Grace, stoped it from coming in.
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Q: Could you give a range if years that this was happening?
A: It happened over a period of time, when I was, he stopped doing it also.
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Randy: Michael wouldn't want to really be around his family too much, I think because he didn't want us to see him that way, specially me
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Shadow Wood home was 50-thousand square feet. Randy said he hated it, it was just too big.
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Randy tried to jump the gate a few times. "My dad and I tried a few times to get him help."
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After Vegas, there were no more interventions, Randy said. "I tried to get him help but I couldn't get as many people to stage intervention"
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Randy didn't speak with MJ that day. He said people would tip MJ off. "So it's bad news. Randy's coming to shake things up."
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Q: What happened when you arrived at Neverland?
A: I think that time he wasn't there.
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Randy said Rebbie and Janet were always supportive, always with him. "My dad also."
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Katherine was at one intervention only, Randy said. "That must've been the first one, around 2002-2003, at Neverland.
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A: First one at Neverland, not the one that KJ was present. Janet, myself, Rebbie. Maybe my mom was at that one. I think my mom was there.
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Rebbie and Janet went on all of them, except one or two.
Q: Describe the 3-4 additional interventions:
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The 4-5 interventions at Neverland were between 2004-2006. "One of them included my mom," Randy said.
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Randy: No, my mon no. As a mom, I guess maybe it was hard for her, you know, for a mother to see that.
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Q: Did you get responses?
A: I think everyone was in shock, maybe a little denial. I always got responses, my dad, Rebbie and Janet, always
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He wrote the letter down on paper and had assistant copy it. He said not everybody in his family looks at email.
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Q: Did you send it to your mother as well?
A: Everybody got a copy of it.
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Randy: So this is where the family needs to step in and do something about it because their desire becomes physical.
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Randy: He's an addict, and at this point, addicts aren't so responsible for what they do.
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Q: Who did you send the letter to?
A: Everybody, copied everybody. I made sure everybody knew it.
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Randy wrote letters to my family about MJ's problem and that they had to do something to help.
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Randy said he was spending a lot of time with him, so he kind of got close look at what was going on.
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Finally out of twitter jail... Here's the rest of Randy Jackson's deposition.
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"There were a few over there. I don't know, maybe 4 or 5," Randy responded. It was around 2004, 2005. Or 2005-06.
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Interventions:
NY
Neverland
Las Vegas
Q: Were there any other?
A: It was more than one at Neverland.
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Q: You mentioned Grace would called but was getting him medication?
A: Yes. A few times I would meet her at the pharmacy.
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Randy: I staged several interventions and set up, tried to get him help many times.
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"I was just kind of taken aback by it, maybe," he said.
Q: Did you have concerns about MJ at that point?
A: Yes
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"He said he took it to help him sleep, and he said it was a mistake and that he was sorry about it," Randy testified.
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Randy asked MJ next day if he remembered what happened. He said MJ replied "no, no, but I heard."
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Next morning, Randy said MJ was sleeping pretty late. "I wanted to make sure he was ok, then I left," he said.
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Randy instructed one os the Cascios to sleep next to MJ. He stayed overnight as well.
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"Just let him rest it off. Somebody should sleep next to him, make sure he doesn't vomit or choke, anything like that," doc told Randy.
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Randy said the doctor gave MJ something that would counter, help counter whatever it is he had done.
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Randy: And as I recall, I called my doctor who lived literally around the corner. My doctor came over and took care of him, said he'll be ok
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Randy: They ran downstairs and told me that he had collapsed. And I went upstairs. I picked him up, put him on the bed, it was pretty late.
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A: I went downstairs, I think he had some friends over. And I went downstairs to eat something.
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Q: Did he tell you what he was taking specifically?
A: No
Q: Did you do anything else besides take it away?
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Randy said there wasn't much to talk to MJ then. "Yes, I could talk to him but I'd pick my moments. I'd wait till he'd be a bit more in tune
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Randy: Because what good would it be to help him if you're leaving stuff there?
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Q: You just looked around the house and took bottles?
A: I made her show where everything was.
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Randy said some prescription drugs were in Grace's name. "It was upsetting to me. I think she had a hard time saying no to him."
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Randy said he tried to take everything away, from Grace too. "It was ironic because she was giving it to him but complaining about it."
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A: He was certainly under the influence of something that was altering his normal way of functioning. I tried to get help him some help.
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Randy: We had discussed this before, so I kind of knew what was going on.
Q: And what did you see when you went over there?
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Grace called Randy again to come over. "She needed help with him. He wasn't doing so well."
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"I went over to help him out and take everything away as I could," Randy testified.
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Randy said his speech was slurred. Then Grace, his nanny, would tell me all the time, "You need to get over here. Something's not right."
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Randy said this was in 2005 at the Shadow Wood home in Beverly Hills. "He was under the influence of something."
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Other than the times Randy described in the last deposition, she said saw signs MJ was on prescription medications at home.
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Q: Did you ever see any signs he was on prescription meds on tour?
A: No.
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Randy said Michael enjoyed touring.
Q: Why do you say that?
A: Well, because we like to tour, perform.
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Second part of the deposition was taped on March 26, 2013.
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Q: From 2000 until the time that your brother passed were there periods you believed he didn't problem with prescription drugs?
A: Yes
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Randy said his brother didn't drink. "I never seen him drink alcohol."
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Randy had already selected a rehab facility to take MJ. It was in the Bay area, San Francisco. The same place were interventionist worked
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Randy said they were concerned about prescription abuse around the time MJ was living at the Carolwood house.
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Randy: Leonard Rowe was involved very much in the shows and was giving reports to me that he didn't look too good.
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Randy: There was a drug issue. He wasn't eating. All of these things were happening at the same time. And, you know, a lot of pressure.
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Randy said he and his father tried to call MJ while he lived at Carolwood home. "We were unsuccessful," he said.
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Q: Did your mother ever tell you she believed your brother had problem w/ prescription drugs?
A: No, no, she didn't tell me that believed
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"I told her that we need to plan an intervention and that, her being a mother, because she was there."
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Randy said he had a phone call with his mother, he initiated the conversation.
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That was after the second attempted intervention at Neverland, Randy testified, which was the same as the one his mother attended.
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Q: Did you ever discuss you believed your brother had a problem with prescription drugs with your mother?
A: Yes
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Q: Did he ever tell you he had a problem with prescription drugs?
A: No.
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Randy: Just excessive use, maybe, I don't know if I would call that an addict, I'm not a doctor.
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Q: Was he addicted?
A: I don't know, I wasn't sure, I wasn't clear on it.
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Randy said he forgot the doctors' names. He talked to doctor friends he knew about his concerns of MJ's prescription drug abuse.
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Randy: Also, as I recall, I tried calling a doctor in Vegas and a doctor in Florida, but they wouldn't talk to me about it.
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Randy didn't talk to MJ about it at this point. He talked to Rebbie. "I was investigating about it, talking to people around him."
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Q: What medicine?
A: Sedatives, whatever they call them, sedatives.
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"She just told me she was concerned," Randy described. "Because he was using prescription medication too much."
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"The first time was in Los Angeles, she called me," Randy said. It was around 2000, year 2000.
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Q: When did you first come to believe MJ had a prob with prescription drugs?
A: I guess it was Grace.
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Q: Did your brother ever discuss taking medication to sleep?
A: No
"I never got a call about illegal drugs," Randy explained.
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Randy said he never saw MJ take prescription drugs or illegal drugs. He never heard of propofol or diprivan prior to MJ's death.
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Randy did not know about MJ taking anesthesiologists on tour.
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"I went to visit him at the hospital," Randy said about MJ. He never discussed with MJ insomnia, sleeping problems.
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Q: Did MJ talk to you about his burned scalp?
A: Yes. He said it was painful.
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Randy learned DiLeo came back as MJ's while the O2 show was being put together.
Q: Was he a good manager?
A: Yes
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Randy said he went to visit Frank DiLeo in the hospital after he was in a coma. He knew DiLeo for 20-30 years.
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"I told him I wanted him to go to the therapist with me," Randy described. He said this was after Santa Maria trial, which took over things
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They were at the Ranch for 2/3 hours. Randy discussed with MJ the Ranch intervention after.
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"He just did it and got ready for the trial," Randy explained. MJ never discuss any drug problem with Randy ever.
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After the Las Vegas intervention, Randy said he watched MJ clean up. He was around, it was around Santa Maria trial.
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"My mom didn't believe it," Randy explained. "But it's my mom, she didn't want to believe it."
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Just leaving there all the brother talked about it, Randy said. Other family members didn't believe him either.
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Q: He also refused to go to rehab?
A: Yes
"I didn't believe him," Randy testified.
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Q: Believe your brother had problem with prescription drug?
A: Yes
Q: Did MJ deny he had a prob with prescription drugs?
A: Yes
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MJ didn't want to go to rehab that time either. The brothers stayed a few hours. It was just family, no doctors.
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Randy said he just walked in. One the brothers went over fence to open the gate
Q: Because security won't let you in?
A: Yes. We don't ask
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Q: Did you mom go?
A: I think so. Janet, Rebbie, no Marlon, not sure LaToya, no Jermaine, Tito maybe, Jackie
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Randy: I think my mom found out about the Grace.
"My family went with me," he said.
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Randy told siblings, Rebbie, brothers, Janet. They had another conference call. The parents were not on the call.
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Randy doesn't know how he cleaned up. The intervention at the Ranch occurred after NY. He got a call from Grace "You need to get down here."
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Randy: He stopped using these things, as fas as I know, he stopped using it. I learned it from Grace, pretty much Grace.
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Q: Did he clean up after LV intervention?
A: Yes
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Randy testified the brothers just talked to him. "Just tell him that his family loves him, concerned for him."
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Randy called Grace. "She told me that he cleaned up,"
Q: How?
A: Because I was there, probably.
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MJ didn't go to rehab, Randy didn't tell the parents, he said he didn't want to stress them out.
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Randy doesn't remember the details of the conversation, whether MJ admitted or not abusing prescription drugs.
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"He wouldn't go" Randy said about his attempt to take MJ to rehab.
Q: Did you tell him to go?
A: Yes
Q: Did he tell you he wouldn't?
A: Yes
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Randy went with family only to the NY intervention.
Q: Did he agreed to see you?
A: I guess, I just walked in.
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"You need to get down here," Randy said Grace told him. She didn't need to say anything else. "Because, my brother," Randy explained.
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Grace called him, he called the family, other family members, Rebbie, Tito, Janet, Randy said.
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Grace had called Randy each time. Janet, Rebbie and Tito were with Randy in NY. It happened in early to mid-2000.
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Randy believes the NY attempt happened prior to the Vegas time. He said he was worried about MJ, about "prescription," "prescription abuse."
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Besides Michael, just security was present.
Q: You mentioned another one in NY?
A: Yes
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Randy discussed with the doctors the attempted interventions. Randy did not speak with the doctors again after that.
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Randy said he told the doctor there had been prior attempts to get MJ help and they weren't successful, needed professional help.
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Randy discussed MJ's stint in rehab before with the singer. Randy said he thinks it was one time that MJ was in rehab.
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He said he wanted to know just what they do and what is the procedure here, what they suggest.
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Randy said he met the interventionist doctor at Madeo for lunch, probably met doctor one time prior as well.
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They talked to MJ while there, Randy said. He doesn't rememeber specifically what was said, but that the family loved him, wanted to help.
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Q: Besides siblings and the doctor was there somebody else who went?
A: I don't recall who the 2nd guy was. I didn't arrange it, Janet knew
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Q: Had you met him before?
A: No. Internet, maybe
Q: Was this Mr. Webb?
A: No. I don't recall
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"He was an experienced interventionist," Randy testified.
Q: How did you know that?
A: He told me
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Randy said he doesn't know if the parents talked to MJ. Randy and Janet had a doctor in the mix for the Vegas intervention.
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Q: Did you ever discuss that with your parents?
A: Yes
Q Their reaction?
A: Displeased
Q: With?
A: Him not getting the help that he needed.
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Randy: No, let me correct that. Initially we were playing on our tour, the brothers tour. There was concern then.
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Randy said Leonard Rowe told him MJ may have prob w/ prescription drug. He guessed it was around time shows in London were being prepared
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Q: Up until the time of his passing you never discussed it with him again?
A: No
Q: Why not?
A: I hadn't gotten call from Grace or anyone
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"It was just around the Santa Maria trial," Randy said. "It was after, I think."
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Q: When was next discussion?
A: That may have been the last time, maybe. There were prior times.
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Q: Did you leave thinking he had a prob?
A: Yes
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Randy said MJ told him 'Don't worry, I'm okay. I'm not gonna go.'
Q: Did he seem ok?
A: At the time yes
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Q: Did he say whether or not he had a problem with prescription drugs at that time?
A: No. No he didn't say it
They were with MJ for 2 hours
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Q: Did he deny he had a problem with prescription drugs at that time?
A: No
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MJ didn't go to rehab. Randy said the other siblings told MJ the same thing, to go to rehab.
Q: Did he admit having a problem?
A: No
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Q: Did you see MJ?
A: Yes. I told him him I was taking him to rehab," Randy said. "He said he was not going. I said you are, he said I'm not
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Randy said security told him MJ didn't want to see him. Just drive in and walked in the house. The gate was open, I just drove in walked in.
ABC7 Court News @ABC7Courts 9 ago
Randy confronted MJ every time Grace called him.
ABC7 Court News @ABC7Courts 9 ago
Grace called Randy before about MJ using prescription drugs. He said she called him two or 3 times before.
ABC7 Court News @ABC7Courts 9 ago
Q: Have you ever believed MJ was abusing prescription drugs before?
A: Yes.
ABC7 Court News @ABC7Courts 9 ago
Randy said he spoken with Grace, the other siblings spoke with her too. "We may have had a conference call."
ABC7 Court News @ABC7Courts 9 ago
MJ was staying in Vegas. Randy said he went there with Jackie, Rebbie, maybe Janet, maybe Marlon.
Abrir
ABC7 Court News @ABC7Courts 9 ago
Randy said it was around the time of the trial, doesn't know if before or after, not sure.
ABC7 Court News @ABC7Courts 9 ago
"Because I had received call that he had been abusing prescription drugs," Randy said. Grace called him, he's sure if she called anyone else
ABC7 Court News @ABC7Courts 9 ago
MJ's brother said one intervention was in Vegas, then in NY then LA. Randy remembered 3 times and intervention being attempted.
ABC7 Court News @ABC7Courts 9 ago
"I wanted to make sure he was ok," Randy testified.
ABC7 Court News @ABC7Courts 9 ago
Q: Your brother didn't want to see you and you went to see him?
A: Yes
Q: Couple occasions?
A: Yes, 3 or 4 times
ABC7 Court News @ABC7Courts 9 ago
There was a time he was the manager, then not manager, then manager again, Randy said.
ABC7 Court News @ABC7Courts 9 ago
Randy said Frank DiLeo was MJ's manager. "From what I understand until my brother passed," he explained.
ABC7 Court News @ABC7Courts 9 ago
Q: Did you call him in 2009?
A: I don't remember
Q: Did you see him in 2009?
A: I don't remember
ABC7 Court News @ABC7Courts 9 ago
Randy said he doesn't remember when it was the last time he spoke with MJ. He said MJ was traveling.
ABC7 Court News @ABC7Courts 9 ago
The attorneys stipulated the firing occurred in 2004/2005.
Randy said he and Michael were pretty close, since they were close in age.
ABC7 Court News @ABC7Courts 9 ago
Q: Why?
A: Because he asked me to.
Q: Your brother Michael did?
A: Yes
ABC7 Court News @ABC7Courts 9 ago
First deposition was on Nov 6, 2012.
Q: Do you know Grace Rwamba?
A:Yes, and fired her too.
ABC7 Court News @ABC7Courts 9 ago
Jessica Stebbins Bina said AEG is calling Randy Jackson via video deposition.
Q- Question (by an attorney)
A- Answer (by Randy Jackson)
ABC7 Court News @ABC7Courts 9 ago
Back in session...
ABC7 Court News @ABC7Courts 9 ago
Everyone still in the hallway waiting. Fans, reporters and many lawyers on stand by.
ABC7 Court News @ABC7Courts 9 ago
@LovesTheMessage And we hope to get copy of his video deposition prior to our newscast this afternoon. ;-)
ABC7 Court News @ABC7Courts 9 ago
@TheMJAP She testified Branca presented himself as such. The official appointment had to be sanctioned by the probate court.
ABC7 Court News @ABC7Courts 9 ago
@dizzydianajo1 Hi Diane, I have to remain impartial. Both sides have different explanation for the jurors to clap.
ABC7 Court News @ABC7Courts 9 ago
@NenehJackson I'll try! It's hard when you want to tweet all the details...
ABC7 Court News @ABC7Courts 9 ago
For the latest, watch our newscast @ABC7 and visit You are not allowed to view links.
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Login ABC7 Court News @ABC7Courts 9 ago
We'll bring you complete coverage of this afternoon's session as soon as we are able to tweet. Remember, per judge, no live tweets.
ABC7 Court News @ABC7Courts 9 ago
AEG claims Randy doesn't want to come testify in person; Jacksons say AEG doesn't want him to come in person. What do you think is true?
ABC7 Court News @ABC7Courts 9 ago
The other witness scheduled is Randy Jackson, also via video deposition.
