Whitney Houston - Is this really what it has come to?

[IWantYouBack]

Therefore, I simply used Michael's death hoax as a comparison to help us realize that Whitney didn't fake her death

And we've been using also Michael's hoax in the "Whitney dead at 48" thread to show that either she faked her death or she was murdered.
So it's all about looking at it from a different perspective.

So, what I did was, I pulled out some of the most memorable events which point to a hoax that happened around Michael's "death" compared them with Whitney's 

yeah we did the same thing.
And i think that we could go on with this endlessly, just like the Weird List.
Again it depends on how you want to see things. I prefer looking at the connections rather than at the differences. It's more constructive and it ties to the big PIcturE.

So isn't that evidence in itself IF my post was ultimately comparing Whitney's death to Michael's? 

No, it's not evidence. it's just your perspective.
just as the Weird List is not evidence either. it's just a List of weird facts that people are free to interpret as they choose.

Well, then I guess we have to agree to disagree.

[SimPattyK]

I believe her death is so similar to other celebrities who are under high suspicion of having faked their deaths simply because Whitey, too, was a legend in music and a larger than life figure with an incredibly LARGE following. I think Whitney's, Elvis', and "Michael's" deaths are all similar because these stars are all so big,

that is  not a solid reason, IMO.

I would - but as I said, this is a Michael Jackson Death Hoax forum. I'm here to seek the truth regarding my idol, Michael's "death". Not Whitney Houston's.

Ok, i agree with your explanation why you won't put up a "Non-Weird List".
But what if in the end this proves to be part of Michael's plan? Wouldn't you be sorry that you ignored the facts, the similarities, the "coincidences"?
I certainly would!

Even if these facts are weird, it still doesn't mean that she faked her death or that it relates to Michael's death hoax.

ok I agree.
But it doesn't mean that she is dead either! Sorry I didn't see enough proof until now, to convince me that she really died.

[SimPattyK]

[...]Well, then I guess we have to agree to disagree.

Well of course. Didn't we start this debate based on that?
We knew from the very start that we disagree.
But does this stop us from continuing our interesting discussion?
I love contradictory discussions, especially with civil people. They always lead to new constructive ideas.
I love your thread, especially because it produces this type of good inspiring debates. And it includes everyone, everyone can have his opinion represented here.

[Dontwalkaway]

IWantYouBack,

You said you are here for Michael and think Whitney's death or death hoax should not be on this one for MJ.  I see where you are coming from but I am looking at this at all angles until we know more.  I don't think we have enough information about what happened to Whitney to decide so fast.  There are too many What if's ........ ?   We don't know what's really going on.

1.  What if it was a planned illuminati sacrifice and Michael or others had a plan for her to escape ?
2.  What if it was all staged as part of the whole plan of Michael ?   
3.  What if a group of "stars" are working together, such as Michael and Elvis and maybe others ?
4.  What if Whitney was murdered ?
5.  What about all the coincidences and weird list ?
6.  What if they are counting on us, the soldiers of love to investigate this part of the plan ?
7.  What if she really overdosed ?  Maybe we want to get information so it doesn't happen again to someone else.
     
I think of it this way.  If I'm wrong than that's okay because I'll say it's just a learning experience.  But until I know more, I feel like I should support Michael and the "Greatest Fight For Freedom in History".

Let's not have a divided "army" !

Love You All   

[SimPattyK]

How do you know she wasn't in good shape? Were you there, beside her? What is so obvious to you about her condition?

See now this is where we NEED to let reality set in. We all know that throughout the years Whitney Houston has had a rough battle with drugs.

Which reality are you talking about? Is it he one that the media continued to present about her , even after she recovered?
This reminds me of Michael's case with the accusations. Even after he was found NOT guilty, the media continued to portrayed him as a child molester.
So again: what makes you so sure that she was "obviously not in good shape"?

I base my beliefs on her own words, just like I trust only in Michael's words!
I recommend you to watch her interview with Oprah in September 2009. And not only that interview, but also the most recent ones from last year. To me she looked extremely beautiful, very well grounded, in good shape. I saw no sign of her being back on drugs or something.

Not only that, there is VIDEO footage where you can clearly tell Whitney Houston is in rough shape. Her daughter, her manager, and Whitey herself, similarly to Michael, admitted that she had a drug problem a while back and she didn't deny the media's reports about it.

there were also videos and footage with Michael in a wheelchair, with him with plastres on his face, looking really bad. Also his family said that they vainly tried to bring him on the good track, regarding the prescription pain killers he used..
SO? Either they are both dead, murdered by the industry, or they are both alive.

[IWantYouBack]

that is  not a solid reason, IMO.

That was only a VERY small portion of what my actual reason was. If you re-read the part I posted about Selena Gomez and make the connections, in my opinion it makes perfect sense.

But what if in the end this proves to be part of Michael's plan?

But what if it's not? Wouldn't you then be sorry if you ignored her family's feelings and thought that after all of these days/months/years when or if Michael comes back that she did actually pass on and that her family and the world is actually trying to cope with this sudden, sad loss?

Wouldn't you be sorry that you ignored the facts, the similarities, the "coincidences"?

No, I wouldn't be sorry because I'm human. I make mistakes and I'm not always right. If it turns out that she is alive and this is all apart of Michael's plan, then I will stand corrected and learn from my mistakes and be glad that I respected the world's feelings towards this news (not that I am saying you're not). This hoax has already been one heck of a ride and I'm having a great adventure with or without the apparent "clues" I may miss by not believing in the Whitney Houston death hoax.

But it doesn't mean that she is dead either!

But in my mind it does because I see people genuinely crying at her funeral without even thinking "Gee, it could be fake...". I have a different feeling with her funeral compared to the strange feeling I had with Michael's. I felt the sadness. I truly felt it and I just don't believe she's alive no matter what that Weird List says or will say.

[IWantYouBack]

I base my beliefs on her own words

Well then if this is really the case, Whitney herself has never said she was going to fake her death. Where do her words apply to this debate? But, her words do apply to my side of the story. She admitted she had a drug problem.

there were also videos and footage with Michael in a wheelchair, with him with plastres on his face, looking really bad. Also his family said that they vainly tried to bring him on the good track, regarding the prescription pain killers he used..
SO? Either they are both dead, murdered by the industry, or they are both alive.

But, again, similar to the death hoax, Michael's case was different. Those pictures of Michael were pictures taken of him on his every day outing, and MJ himself ADMITTED that he did it to manipulate the media. The video footage of Whitney looking in rough shape was at an awards show where she is presenting herself to her fans, family and the world at a classy ceremony where she is going to get recognized for her great music. So it's not even close to being a similar case. And it is NOT true that if Michael is alive, she must be alive. Or that if Michael was murdered, she was murdered. Or that they are both dead. These people are not attached together by handcuffs or by the skull like conjoined twins. They are two SEPARATE people who have different memories, different achievements, and different lives all together. Yes, they were in the same business, but they're different people. That is just getting too far out there.

[SimPattyK]

But what if in the end this proves to be part of Michael's plan?

But what if it's not? Wouldn't you then be sorry if you ignored her family's feelings and thought that after all of these days/months/years when or if Michael comes back that she did actually pass on and that her family and the world is actually trying to cope with this sudden, sad loss?

No, i wouldn't be sorry, because I didn't say anything offensive , on the contrary I defended Whitney.
If in the end it would be proven that Michael died, would you be sorry for being a believer ?

[SimPattyK]

Wouldn't you be sorry that you ignored the facts, the similarities, the "coincidences"?

No, I wouldn't be sorry because I'm human. I make mistakes and I'm not always right. If it turns out that she is alive and this is all apart of Michael's plan, then I will stand corrected and learn from my mistakes and be glad that I respected the world's feelings towards this news (not that I am saying you're not). This hoax has already been one heck of a ride and I'm having a great adventure with or without the apparent "clues" I may miss by not believing in the Whitney Houston death hoax.

I agree with you.

But it doesn't mean that she is dead either!

But in my mind it does because I see people genuinely crying at her funeral without even thinking "Gee, it could be fake...". I have a different feeling with her funeral compared to the strange feeling I had with Michael's. I felt the sadness. I truly felt it and I just don't believe she's alive no matter what that Weird List says or will say.

ok.

[IWantYouBack]

IWantYouBack,

You said you are here for Michael and think Whitney's death or death hoax should not be on this one for MJ.  I see where you are coming from but I am looking at this at all angles until we know more.  I don't think we have enough information about what happened to Whitney to decide so fast.  There are too many What if's ........ ?   We don't know what's really going on.

1.  What if it was a planned illuminati sacrifice and Michael or others had a plan for her to escape ?
2.  What if it was all staged as part of the whole plan of Michael ?   
3.  What if a group of "stars" are working together, such as Michael and Elvis and maybe others ?
4.  What if Whitney was murdered ?
5.  What about all the coincidences and weird list ?
6.  What if they are counting on us, the soldiers of love to investigate this part of the plan ?
7.  What if she really overdosed ?  Maybe we want to get information so it doesn't happen again to someone else.
     
I think of it this way.  If I'm wrong than that's okay because I'll say it's just a learning experience.  But until I know more, I feel like I should support Michael and the "Greatest Fight For Freedom in History".

Let's not have a divided "army" !

Love You All   

But again, I can't make my decisions based on "what-ifs". I'm not a conspiracy theory enthusiast. I became a Michael Jackson death hoax beLIEver because there were true signs that Michael Jackson faked his death. I mean, La Toya was walking around telling us all to watch The Illusionist which is a movie about a faked death! That is a little odd, don't you think? There's nothing like this on this kind of level going on with Whitney Houston's death in my opinion. Michael's death screamed hoax. This one doesn't. It's just my opinion and no one is going to change it.

[IWantYouBack]

But what if in the end this proves to be part of Michael's plan?

But what if it's not? Wouldn't you then be sorry if you ignored her family's feelings and thought that after all of these days/months/years when or if Michael comes back that she did actually pass on and that her family and the world is actually trying to cope with this sudden, sad loss?

No, i wouldn't be sorry, because I didn't say anything offensive , on the contrary I defended Whitney.
If in the end it would be proven that Michael died, would you be sorry for being a believer ?

In some ways, I would be a little sorry for being a beLIEver because I don't want his children thinking that we thought they were liars and weren't coping with the loss of their father. So yes, I would be a little sorry, but I wouldn't lose sleep over it or anything.

[SimPattyK]

I base my beliefs on her own words

Well then if this is really the case, Whitney herself has never said she was going to fake her death.

And Michael did?

Where do her words apply to this debate? But, her words do apply to my side of the story. She admitted she had a drug problem.

You didn't watch the Oprah interview.
I prefer to believe her than what the media says about her. She said she recovered. I saw her alive and well and optimist and full of projects in interviews just few months before she died. That's where her words apply!

there were also videos and footage with Michael in a wheelchair, with him with plastres on his face, looking really bad. Also his family said that they vainly tried to bring him on the good track, regarding the prescription pain killers he used..
SO? Either they are both dead, murdered by the industry, or they are both alive.

But, again, similar to the death hoax, Michael's case was different.

of course. nobody said otherwise. The cases are totally different, but also very connected.

[...] And it is NOT true that if Michael is alive, she must be alive. Or that if Michael was murdered, she was murdered. Or that they are both dead. These people are not attached together by handcuffs or by the skull like conjoined twins. They are two SEPARATE people who have different memories, different achievements, and different lives all together. Yes, they were in the same business, but they're different people. That is just getting too far out there.

ye but then how do you explain all the similarities? or do you choose to ifgnore all that?
Ok, I understand you don't feel like putting up a Non-Weird List.
But then you never even touched the points in the Weird List. What are we discussing about here?
I think that rather than debating AROUND the subject we should get INTO the actual stuff!
You said you opened this thread after you saw the Weird List. Ok, well let's start discussing the Weird List, point by point. This way this debate will be meaningful.
Let's just get to the point(s) and discuss the essence!!

So what about point no. 1 from the List ? is this only "an apparent weird stuff?" as @IWantYouBack said or is it a REAL FACT!? I wanna hear all possible PROs and CONs about that.

What about point no. 2 ??

[bec]

Truth be told, it bothers me that some find "clues" in WH's death and are believing it is a hoax, because I feel like it diminishes the legitimacy of the MJ death hoax.

Although it shouldn't bother me because I have solid reasons to believe MJHD irregardless of what anyone else believes.

But it still does for some reason.

I think this trend would bother me less in 2010 then it does now. Or even less a year ago. But now? It's tough being an MJ death hoaxer these days. Real tough. It's frankly embarrassing to be known as a believer anymore because we appear to be completely insane and pathetic.

Exactly.

I thought you might feel similar. Thanks for confirming.

To answer the topic title, YES, this is what it has come to. Not that we should be surprised, I suppose. There's no more death hoax and all we have to do now it sit back and either invent stuff to look at or begin to question our own sanity. Genuinely this time, not the tongue in cheek manner of lighter times of past.

[SimPattyK]

IWantYouBack,

You said you are here for Michael and think Whitney's death or death hoax should not be on this one for MJ.  I see where you are coming from but I am looking at this at all angles until we know more.  I don't think we have enough information about what happened to Whitney to decide so fast.  There are too many What if's ........ ?   We don't know what's really going on.

1.  What if it was a planned illuminati sacrifice and Michael or others had a plan for her to escape ?
2.  What if it was all staged as part of the whole plan of Michael ?   
3.  What if a group of "stars" are working together, such as Michael and Elvis and maybe others ?
4.  What if Whitney was murdered ?
5.  What about all the coincidences and weird list ?
6.  What if they are counting on us, the soldiers of love to investigate this part of the plan ?
7.  What if she really overdosed ?  Maybe we want to get information so it doesn't happen again to someone else.
     
I think of it this way.  If I'm wrong than that's okay because I'll say it's just a learning experience.  But until I know more, I feel like I should support Michael and the "Greatest Fight For Freedom in History".

Let's not have a divided "army" !

Love You All   

But again, I can't make my decisions based on "what-ifs".

precisely!
 So then how can you decide whether she's dead, alive or murdered?


@Don'tWalkAway: good point!!

[ilovemjforever]

How do you know she wasn't in good shape? Were you there, beside her? What is so obvious to you about her condition?

See now this is where we NEED to let reality set in. We all know that throughout the years Whitney Houston has had a rough battle with drugs.

Which reality are you talking about? Is it he one that the media continued to present about her , even after she recovered?
This reminds me of Michael's case with the accusations. Even after he was found NOT guilty, the media continued to portrayed him as a child molester.
So again: what makes you so sure that she was "obviously not in good shape"?

I base my beliefs on her own words, just like I trust only in Michael's words!
I recommend you to watch her interview with Oprah in September 2009. And not only that interview, but also the most recent ones from last year. To me she looked extremely beautiful, very well grounded, in good shape. I saw no sign of her being back on drugs or something.

Not only that, there is VIDEO footage where you can clearly tell Whitney Houston is in rough shape. Her daughter, her manager, and Whitey herself, similarly to Michael, admitted that she had a drug problem a while back and she didn't deny the media's reports about it.

there were also videos and footage with Michael in a wheelchair, with him with plastres on his face, looking really bad. Also his family said that they vainly tried to bring him on the good track, regarding the prescription pain killers he used..
SO? Either they are both dead, murdered by the industry, or they are both alive.

Agreed,my feelings exactly.If Michael pulled off an elaborate hoax,who is to say he did not help Whitney.She could be dead,but then so could M.J.Not that i believe Michael is dead,im just saying,the industry aint no joke,but neither is Michael.