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Re: TIAI January 21
February 05, 2012, 08:15:18 PM
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Quote (selected)
From TS
This is because the high priest would go around the left side of the veil, and then face north while standing in front of the ark (the throne, on the sides of the north). Here, the priest would sprinkle the animal blood to his right, or eastward. Later, Christ’s blood would land on the other side of the mercy seat, to the left of the priest; but the right hand, from the perspective of sitting on the throne.
Sorry guys, can someone help me?
Is there something incorrect or am I deceived by the translation?
The east side that  is sprinkled with animal blood should be the right hand, from the perspective of sitting on the throne and not the other side where  the blood of Jesus would have fallen

Animal blood in OT sprinkled on the right side for the priest, left side for God sitting on the throne (priest would face God, they look in opposite directions; priest to the north, God to the south). Jesus sits on God's right hand, so left hand for the priest. That is the side where Ron found the blood. Does that help?
Yes. It is perfect in this way. Thanks. I was convinced that the throne looked to the north just because it was sprinkled in the east.
Last Edit: February 05, 2012, 11:19:31 PM by ~Souza~
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Adi

Re: TIAI January 21
February 05, 2012, 09:52:08 PM
Did anyone see Madonna's Half Time Show at the the Super Bowl??? !!!!

Anyone else note the  "coincidental" similarities with the current subject of this TIAI thread and Ark of the Covenant topic by The Sign on the other forum? At the beginning especially....

Wow.

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Last Edit: February 05, 2012, 09:59:39 PM by Adi
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Andrea

Re: TIAI January 21
February 05, 2012, 10:14:24 PM
You're right Adi, the beginning is especially interesting.  Thanks for posting the video as I did not watch the Super Bowl.  Bowling has never really been my thing...   






 ;)
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~Souza~

Re: TIAI January 21
February 05, 2012, 11:56:56 PM
Okay warning! I am going to post a long ass post I have been working on for days after the discussion about the mark of the beast and the sabbath was brought up. It's not the complete Sabbath study I am going to send to my JW friend, but it's an important part that identifies all 8 beasts in the time prophecies so that the mark of the beast becomes crystal clear. It's long so I think I have to post it in parts. I hope that with this post I can make clear what I mean. I skipped a lot of parts that I will discuss in the complete file, but if question: please ask. It will probably take me some time to post it, so please be patient, lol.
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GINAFELICIA

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Re: TIAI January 21
February 06, 2012, 12:05:50 AM
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Did anyone see Madonna's Half Time Show at the the Super Bowl??? !!!!

Anyone else note the  "coincidental" similarities with the current subject of this TIAI thread and Ark of the Covenant topic by The Sign on the other forum? At the beginning especially....

Wow.

[youtube] You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login [/youtube]

I don't like her, I don't like those horns she's wearing.

Yeah they all want to top Michael except that he was kind and beautiful and never promoted devil's signs.
 crash/ crash/ crash/
His performance was antiracism and all about love and understanding, he tried to make people see the planet needs healing.
I love you Michael!

@ Souza - I'm curious what will you bring up this time.
Last Edit: February 06, 2012, 12:34:24 AM by GINAFELICIA
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~Souza~

Re: TIAI January 21
February 06, 2012, 12:41:40 AM
THE MARK OF THE BEAST


There is much speculation about the mark of the beast. Will it be a chip implant, a peace contract with Israel, WWIII, or will it be something more ‘simple’ and therefore overlooked or dismissed by many?

In order to find out what the mark of the beast is, we should first identify the beast itself. Without knowing who the beast is, its mark will always be speculation. There are eight beasts mentioned in the time prophecies and I will walk through Daniel and Revelation to show the eight beasts and identify all of them.

“SURELY THE LORD GOD WILL DO NOTHING, BUT HE REVEALETH HIS SECRET UNTO HIS SERVANTS THE PROPHETS.”
~AMOS 3:7


I might repeat certain things several times but in that case it will be either to point out importance, or to show connection between two or more things, and I will give some historical information briefly. Any details on that can be found online if you want to research it for yourself. All Bible quotes are from the King James Version.

The first four beasts and hints for the 5th are mentioned in Daniel, the last four are in Revelation. Although it seems as though the beasts in Daniel start with his vision in Daniel 7, they actually start way earlier in the book but are presented in the form of a statue in Nebuchadnezzar’s dream, I will show you why these kingdoms in Nebuchadnezzar’s dream are the same as the four beasts of Daniel’s vision.

This is actually only one chapter of seven in the study I am writing out for my JW friend that thinks the Sabbath commandment is no big deal. I will be harsh on institutions, but not on people. Please understand that I do not seek to offend anyone, I only want to show what I believe and why I believe it.


DANIEL 2 – NEBUCHADNEZZAR’S DREAM

In Daniel 2, Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon had a dream . The dream and the meaning of the dream were revealed to Daniel by God and Daniel tells Nebuchadnezzar what he dreamt:


“THOU, O KING, SAWEST, AND BEHOLD A GREAT IMAGE. THIS GREAT IMAGE, WHOSE BRIGHTNESS WAS EXCELLENT, STOOD BEFORE THEE; AND THE FORM THEREOF WAS TERRIBLE.

THIS IMAGE'S HEAD WAS OF FINE GOLD, HIS BREAST AND HIS ARMS OF SILVER, HIS BELLY AND HIS THIGHS OF BRASS,

HIS LEGS OF IRON, HIS FEET PART OF IRON AND PART OF CLAY.

THOU SAWEST TILL THAT A STONE WAS CUT OUT WITHOUT HANDS, WHICH SMOTE THE IMAGE UPON HIS FEET THAT WERE OF IRON AND CLAY, AND BRAKE THEM TO PIECES.

THEN WAS THE IRON, THE CLAY, THE BRASS, THE SILVER, AND THE GOLD, BROKEN TO PIECES TOGETHER, AND BECAME LIKE THE CHAFF OF THE SUMMER THRESHINGFLOORS; AND THE WIND CARRIED THEM AWAY, THAT NO PLACE WAS FOUND FOR THEM: AND THE STONE THAT SMOTE THE IMAGE BECAME A GREAT MOUNTAIN, AND FILLED THE WHOLE EARTH.”

~DANIEL 2:31-35



The dream itself doesn’t give us much to hold on to, but Daniel also gives Nebuchadnezzar the interpretation of his dream, that gives us a little more information:


“THOU, O KING, ART A KING OF KINGS: FOR THE GOD OF HEAVEN HATH GIVEN THEE A KINGDOM, POWER, AND STRENGTH, AND GLORY.

AND WHERESOEVER THE CHILDREN OF MEN DWELL, THE BEASTS OF THE FIELD AND THE FOWLS OF THE HEAVEN HATH HE GIVEN INTO THINE HAND, AND HATH MADE THEE RULER OVER THEM ALL. THOU ART THIS HEAD OF GOLD.

AND AFTER THEE SHALL ARISE ANOTHER KINGDOM INFERIOR TO THEE, AND ANOTHER THIRD KINGDOM OF BRASS, WHICH SHALL BEAR RULE OVER ALL THE EARTH.

AND THE FOURTH KINGDOM SHALL BE STRONG AS IRON: FORASMUCH AS IRON BREAKETH IN PIECES AND SUBDUETH ALL THINGS: AND AS IRON THAT BREAKETH ALL THESE, SHALL IT BREAK IN PIECES AND BRUISE.

AND WHEREAS THOU SAWEST THE FEET AND TOES, PART OF POTTERS' CLAY, AND PART OF IRON, THE KINGDOM SHALL BE DIVIDED; BUT THERE SHALL BE IN IT OF THE STRENGTH OF THE IRON, FORASMUCH AS THOU SAWEST THE IRON MIXED WITH MIRY CLAY.

AND AS THE TOES OF THE FEET WERE PART OF IRON, AND PART OF CLAY, SO THE KINGDOM SHALL BE PARTLY STRONG, AND PARTLY BROKEN.

AND WHEREAS THOU SAWEST IRON MIXED WITH MIRY CLAY, THEY SHALL MINGLE THEMSELVES WITH THE SEED OF MEN: BUT THEY SHALL NOT CLEAVE ONE TO ANOTHER, EVEN AS IRON IS NOT MIXED WITH CLAY.

AND IN THE DAYS OF THESE KINGS SHALL THE GOD OF HEAVEN SET UP A KINGDOM, WHICH SHALL NEVER BE DESTROYED: AND THE KINGDOM SHALL NOT BE LEFT TO OTHER PEOPLE, BUT IT SHALL BREAK IN PIECES AND CONSUME ALL THESE KINGDOMS, AND IT SHALL STAND FOR EVER.

FORASMUCH AS THOU SAWEST THAT THE STONE WAS CUT OUT OF THE MOUNTAIN WITHOUT HANDS, AND THAT IT BRAKE IN PIECES THE IRON, THE BRASS, THE CLAY, THE SILVER, AND THE GOLD; THE GREAT GOD HATH MADE KNOWN TO THE KING WHAT SHALL COME TO PASS HEREAFTER: AND THE DREAM IS CERTAIN, AND THE INTERPRETATION THEREOF SURE.”

~DANIEL 2:37-45



We now know that the statue represents kingdoms that will rise and fall after Babylon. We get the following information:

Kingdom #1 (head of gold) is Babylon. We know that because Daniel tells Nebuchadnezzar “Thou art this head of gold”. Some think therefore that Nebuchadnezzar himself as an individual is the head of gold, but that doesn’t make much sense in this context, because Daniel goes on saying “…after thee shall arise another kingdom”.

Kingdom #2 (breast and arms of silver) is a kingdom that shall arise after Babylon, and it shall be inferior to it. That’s not much information, but with a little help from Wikipedia we can see that Cyrus the Great invaded Babylon in 539 BC and he was the founder of the Achaemenid Empire, also known as Medo-Persia. This empire would grow bigger than Bablyon, so why would it be inferior to it? It’s a guess from my side, but I think that was because the power of the actual king himself was weaker in this empire, which was the cause for the fall of this kingdom. From Wikipedia:

Quote (selected)
“TRADITIONAL VIEW IS THAT THE PERSIAN EMPIRE'S VAST SIZE AND ITS EXTRAORDINARY ETHNO CULTURAL DIVERSITY WOULD PROVE TO BE ITS UNDOING AS DELEGATION OF POWER TO LOCAL GOVERNMENTS WOULD EVENTUALLY WEAKEN THE KING'S CENTRAL AUTHORITY, CAUSING MUCH ENERGY AND RESOURCES TO BE WASTED IN ATTEMPTS TO SUBDUE LOCAL REBELLIONS EXPLAINING WHY WHEN ALEXANDER THE GREAT (ALEXANDER III OF MACEDON) INVADED PERSIA IN 334 BCE HE WAS FACED BY A DISUNIFIED REALM UNDER A WEAK MONARCH, RIPE FOR DESTRUCTION.”

Another interpretation could be, and probably is, that the kingdoms (not just the second) were moving further and further from God, thus why the metals decrease in value.

Kingdom #3 (the belly and thighs of brass) “shall bear rule over all the earth” is all the information we get now, plus it will come after Medo-Persia. The Wiki quote above already gives us a big clue about this kingdom, since we just read that Alexander the Great invaded the weakened empire, which would mean ancient Greece is here represented as the third kingdom.

Kingdom #4 (legs of iron) is by far the kingdom we get the most information about, plus a big hint on the fifth (toes of iron mixed with clay). This tells us that this is an important kingdom. The clues we get about this kingdom are that it is a strong kingdom, that it shall be divided and mixed with ‘clay’. Because the feet and toes give hints about the fifth beast (more on that later), this description tells us that it is still part of the legs (same metal). This is important to keep in mind when we move on to the fifth beast later on in Revelation.

Daniel 2:44-45 shows God’s (everlasting) kingdom breaking all these kingdoms to pieces and consuming them in the end. This would be the 9th kingdom and it shall stand forever. The fact that God’s (last) kingdom is mentioned in the explanation after these four (and a little about the fifth) tells us that most likely this fourth kingdom (although not in its original state, but divided) and the fifth kingdom will last until the end of times, until destroyed by God. This is represented in the dream and the explanation by the stone destroying the feet and causing the complete image to fall and break to pieces, never to be found again. This stone will become a great mountain and fill the whole earth (God’s eternal kingdom).


DANIEL 7 – DANIEL’S VISION


“DANIEL SPAKE AND SAID, I SAW IN MY VISION BY NIGHT, AND, BEHOLD, THE FOUR WINDS OF THE HEAVEN STROVE UPON THE GREAT SEA.

AND FOUR GREAT BEASTS CAME UP FROM THE SEA, DIVERSE ONE FROM ANOTHER.

THE FIRST WAS LIKE A LION, AND HAD EAGLE'S WINGS: I BEHELD TILL THE WINGS THEREOF WERE PLUCKED, AND IT WAS LIFTED UP FROM THE EARTH, AND MADE STAND UPON THE FEET AS A MAN, AND A MAN'S HEART WAS GIVEN TO IT.

AND BEHOLD ANOTHER BEAST, A SECOND, LIKE TO A BEAR, AND IT RAISED UP ITSELF ON ONE SIDE, AND IT HAD THREE RIBS IN THE MOUTH OF IT BETWEEN THE TEETH OF IT: AND THEY SAID THUS UNTO IT, ARISE, DEVOUR MUCH FLESH.

AFTER THIS I BEHELD, AND LO ANOTHER, LIKE A LEOPARD, WHICH HAD UPON THE BACK OF IT FOUR WINGS OF A FOWL; THE BEAST HAD ALSO FOUR HEADS; AND DOMINION WAS GIVEN TO IT.

AFTER THIS I SAW IN THE NIGHT VISIONS, AND BEHOLD A FOURTH BEAST, DREADFUL AND TERRIBLE, AND STRONG EXCEEDINGLY; AND IT HAD GREAT IRON TEETH: IT DEVOURED AND BRAKE IN PIECES, AND STAMPED THE RESIDUE WITH THE FEET OF IT: AND IT WAS DIVERSE FROM ALL THE BEASTS THAT WERE BEFORE IT; AND IT HAD TEN HORNS.

I CONSIDERED THE HORNS, AND, BEHOLD, THERE CAME UP AMONG THEM ANOTHER LITTLE HORN, BEFORE WHOM THERE WERE THREE OF THE FIRST HORNS PLUCKED UP BY THE ROOTS: AND, BEHOLD, IN THIS HORN WERE EYES LIKE THE EYES OF MAN, AND A MOUTH SPEAKING GREAT THINGS.”

~DANIEL 7:2-8



We get a few hints to show us that these beasts are kingdoms and are the same as the four metals in the statue of Nebuchadnezzar’s dream. There are four beasts, just as there were 4 metals. Another clue is that the first metal in the statue was gold (highest value) and the first beast mentioned here is the lion (king of the animals). We see that they come one after another, just like the kingdoms in Daniel 2 and again the fourth gets the most attention. Also, just as we got a hint on the fifth beast in the statue (represented by the toes with the clay mixture) we get a hint on the fifth beast here too with the little horn that comes up out of the beast. Where the fourth kingdom in the statue had ten toes, this beast has 10 horns. Even the metal of the fourth kingdom in Daniel 2 is included in this beast, which has iron teeth. And just as the statue was destroyed and replaced by God’s eternal kingdom, this beast is slain:


“I BEHELD TILL THE THRONES WERE CAST DOWN, AND THE ANCIENT OF DAYS DID SIT, WHOSE GARMENT WAS WHITE AS SNOW, AND THE HAIR OF HIS HEAD LIKE THE PURE WOOL: HIS THRONE WAS LIKE THE FIERY FLAME, AND HIS WHEELS AS BURNING FIRE.

A FIERY STREAM ISSUED AND CAME FORTH FROM BEFORE HIM: THOUSAND THOUSANDS MINISTERED UNTO HIM, AND TEN THOUSAND TIMES TEN THOUSAND STOOD BEFORE HIM: THE JUDGMENT WAS SET, AND THE BOOKS WERE OPENED.

I BEHELD THEN BECAUSE OF THE VOICE OF THE GREAT WORDS WHICH THE HORN SPAKE: I BEHELD EVEN TILL THE BEAST WAS SLAIN, AND HIS BODY DESTROYED, AND GIVEN TO THE BURNING FLAME.

AS CONCERNING THE REST OF THE BEASTS, THEY HAD THEIR DOMINION TAKEN AWAY: YET THEIR LIVES WERE PROLONGED FOR A SEASON AND TIME.

I SAW IN THE NIGHT VISIONS, AND, BEHOLD, ONE LIKE THE SON OF MAN CAME WITH THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN, AND CAME TO THE ANCIENT OF DAYS, AND THEY BROUGHT HIM NEAR BEFORE HIM.

AND THERE WAS GIVEN HIM DOMINION, AND GLORY, AND A KINGDOM, THAT ALL PEOPLE, NATIONS, AND LANGUAGES, SHOULD SERVE HIM: HIS DOMINION IS AN EVERLASTING DOMINION, WHICH SHALL NOT PASS AWAY, AND HIS KINGDOM THAT WHICH SHALL NOT BE DESTROYED.”

~DANIEL 7:9-14



Let’s have a look at the first explanation of this vision given to Daniel.


“THESE GREAT BEASTS, WHICH ARE FOUR, ARE FOUR KINGS, WHICH SHALL ARISE OUT OF THE EARTH.

BUT THE SAINTS OF THE MOST HIGH SHALL TAKE THE KINGDOM, AND POSSESS THE KINGDOM FOR EVER, EVEN FOR EVER AND EVER.”

~DANIEL 7:17-18



This is the other hint that this vision refers to the same kingdoms as the ones of the statue, for these are also kingdoms. Let’s have a look at the first three beasts (kingdoms) in Daniel’s vision to see if they are indeed the same (Babylon, Medo-Persia and Greece).

Beast #1 is a lion (pride and arrogance) which represents Nebuchadnezzar, the king of Babylon, which grew ‘hair like eagle’s feathers’ (Daniel 4:33) and was given a beasts’ heart (Daniel 5:21) when his kingdom was taken away from him and God taught him a lesson (see Daniel 4), until his ‘understanding returned’. The feathers being plucked, it being made stand upon its feet as a man and been given a man’s heart refers to Nebuchadnezzar’s humbling and repentance (Daniel 4:34-37) and transition from ‘beast’ to ‘man’.

Beast #2 is a bear that ‘raised up itself on one side’ with 3 ribs between its teeth. The first refers to the dual kingdom of Medo-Persia, which I will mention with more detail later on. The three ribs refer to the three directions of conquer of the Medo-Persians (west, north and south, as prophesied in a later vision).

Beast #3 is represented by a leopard with four wings like a fowl, and four heads that was given dominion to. The double pair of wings refers to the speedy conquest of Alexander the Great who, by the age of thirty, had created one of the largest empires of the ancient world, stretching from the Ionian Sea to the Himalayas. He was undefeated in battle and is considered one of history's most successful commanders. The four heads refer to the four generals that divided his empire and assumed control of different parts after his death. These four generals were Lysimachus, Cassander, Seleucus, and Ptolemy. Lysimachus received Thrace and most of Asia Minor. Cassander obtained Macedonia and Greece. Ptolemy was given Egypt, Palestine, Cilicia, Petra, and Cyprus while Seleucus controlled the rest of Asia: Syria, Babylon, Persia, and India.

This clearly shows that both the statue in Nebuchadnezzar’s dream and the four beasts in Daniel’s vision all refer to the same four kingdoms. That also means that we have received more information about the fourth beast and more hints on the fifth beast in revelation. From the vision we know that:

Beast #4 is “dreadful”, “terrible” and “strong exceedingly”. It had “iron teeth” (referring back to the iron legs of the statue), it was diverse from the others and had ten horns. There is only one kingdom in the history of mankind that fits this description: the Roman Empire. In the end the Western Roman Empire divided into ten separate kingdoms: Alemanni (now Germany), Franks (now France), Burgundians (now Switzerland), Suevi (now Portugal), Vandals (destroyed), Visigoths (now Spain), Anglo-Saxons (now England), Ostrogoths (destroyed), Lombards (now Italy), and the Heruli (destroyed). As prophesied, this beast is still in existence, yet not in the power as it was in before the division. Three kingdoms were destroyed, but that is exactly as the vision said; the three horns that would be plucked out before the little horn came up.

Daniel still wanted more understanding of his vision after the short explanation he got in Daniel 7:17-18, so he goes over his vision again, asking for more understanding, which he gets:


“THEN I WOULD KNOW THE TRUTH OF THE FOURTH BEAST, WHICH WAS DIVERSE FROM ALL THE OTHERS, EXCEEDING DREADFUL, WHOSE TEETH WERE OF IRON, AND HIS NAILS OF BRASS; WHICH DEVOURED, BRAKE IN PIECES, AND STAMPED THE RESIDUE WITH HIS FEET;

AND OF THE TEN HORNS THAT WERE IN HIS HEAD, AND OF THE OTHER WHICH CAME UP, AND BEFORE WHOM THREE FELL; EVEN OF THAT HORN THAT HAD EYES, AND A MOUTH THAT SPAKE VERY GREAT THINGS, WHOSE LOOK WAS MORE STOUT THAN HIS FELLOWS.

I BEHELD, AND THE SAME HORN MADE WAR WITH THE SAINTS, AND PREVAILED AGAINST THEM;

UNTIL THE ANCIENT OF DAYS CAME, AND JUDGMENT WAS GIVEN TO THE SAINTS OF THE MOST HIGH; AND THE TIME CAME THAT THE SAINTS POSSESSED THE KINGDOM.”


(end of repeat of his vision, asking for more understanding)

“THUS HE SAID, THE FOURTH BEAST SHALL BE THE FOURTH KINGDOM UPON EARTH, WHICH SHALL BE DIVERSE FROM ALL KINGDOMS, AND SHALL DEVOUR THE WHOLE EARTH, AND SHALL TREAD IT DOWN, AND BREAK IT IN PIECES.

AND THE TEN HORNS OUT OF THIS KINGDOM ARE TEN KINGS THAT SHALL ARISE: AND ANOTHER SHALL RISE AFTER THEM; AND HE SHALL BE DIVERSE FROM THE FIRST, AND HE SHALL SUBDUE THREE KINGS.

AND HE SHALL SPEAK GREAT WORDS AGAINST THE MOST HIGH, AND SHALL WEAR OUT THE SAINTS OF THE MOST HIGH, AND THINK TO CHANGE TIMES AND LAWS: AND THEY SHALL BE GIVEN INTO HIS HAND UNTIL A TIME AND TIMES AND THE DIVIDING OF TIME.

BUT THE JUDGMENT SHALL SIT, AND THEY SHALL TAKE AWAY HIS DOMINION, TO CONSUME AND TO DESTROY IT UNTO THE END.

AND THE KINGDOM AND DOMINION, AND THE GREATNESS OF THE KINGDOM UNDER THE WHOLE HEAVEN, SHALL BE GIVEN TO THE PEOPLE OF THE SAINTS OF THE MOST HIGH, WHOSE KINGDOM IS AN EVERLASTING KINGDOM, AND ALL DOMINIONS SHALL SERVE AND OBEY HIM.”


(more information given about the fourth beast (horns represent kingdoms) and also a lot more information given about the little horn/fifth beast of Revelation)

~DANIEL 7:19-27


It should be clear by now that these fourth and fifth beasts are important and that we should pay attention to it. Also, we get important information on the fifth beast once again: it shall be diverse from the first, it shall subdue three kings, it shall speak great words against the most High, it shall wear out the saints of the most High, it shall think to change times and laws and the period of its reign is given: a “time, times and the dividing of time”. Also, again we see that this beast shall not fall until it is destroyed by God, thus it shall last till the end of times. Another important hint we need to keep on mind with the fifth beast is that it is PART of the fourth, one way or another. The toes were part of the legs and had the same metal in it and the little horn came out of the terrifying beast.


DANIEL 8 – DANIEL’S SECOND VISION

Daniel 8 is the chapter with the last prophetic vision. This is important to understand. The chapters after that merely give more explanation about the vision, but after Daniel 8 there is no new prophetic vision. Daniel 8 talks about the same beasts as Daniel 7 and the same kingdoms as Daniel 2, yet this time it starts with the second kingdom: Medo-Persia. There are two reasons for that. Firstly, the first kingdom has already been established as being Babylon when Daniel told Nebuchadnezzar that his kingdom was the head of gold. Secondly, the time Daniel 11 was written was at the end of the Babylonian reign, thus there is no need for a repeat of a time prophecy that almost has been fulfilled. Here is the vision Daniel receives:


“THEN I LIFTED UP MINE EYES, AND SAW, AND, BEHOLD, THERE STOOD BEFORE THE RIVER A RAM WHICH HAD TWO HORNS: AND THE TWO HORNS WERE HIGH; BUT ONE WAS HIGHER THAN THE OTHER, AND THE HIGHER CAME UP LAST.

I SAW THE RAM PUSHING WESTWARD, AND NORTHWARD, AND SOUTHWARD; SO THAT NO BEASTS MIGHT STAND BEFORE HIM, NEITHER WAS THERE ANY THAT COULD DELIVER OUT OF HIS HAND; BUT HE DID ACCORDING TO HIS WILL, AND BECAME GREAT.

AND AS I WAS CONSIDERING, BEHOLD, AN HE GOAT CAME FROM THE WEST ON THE FACE OF THE WHOLE EARTH, AND TOUCHED NOT THE GROUND: AND THE GOAT HAD A NOTABLE HORN BETWEEN HIS EYES.

AND HE CAME TO THE RAM THAT HAD TWO HORNS, WHICH I HAD SEEN STANDING BEFORE THE RIVER, AND RAN UNTO HIM IN THE FURY OF HIS POWER.

AND I SAW HIM COME CLOSE UNTO THE RAM, AND HE WAS MOVED WITH CHOLER AGAINST HIM, AND SMOTE THE RAM, AND BRAKE HIS TWO HORNS: AND THERE WAS NO POWER IN THE RAM TO STAND BEFORE HIM, BUT HE CAST HIM DOWN TO THE GROUND, AND STAMPED UPON HIM: AND THERE WAS NONE THAT COULD DELIVER THE RAM OUT OF HIS HAND.

THEREFORE THE HE GOAT WAXED VERY GREAT: AND WHEN HE WAS STRONG, THE GREAT HORN WAS BROKEN; AND FOR IT CAME UP FOUR NOTABLE ONES TOWARD THE FOUR WINDS OF HEAVEN.

AND OUT OF ONE OF THEM CAME FORTH A LITTLE HORN, WHICH WAXED EXCEEDING GREAT, TOWARD THE SOUTH, AND TOWARD THE EAST, AND TOWARD THE PLEASANT LAND.

AND IT WAXED GREAT, EVEN TO THE HOST OF HEAVEN; AND IT CAST DOWN SOME OF THE HOST AND OF THE STARS TO THE GROUND, AND STAMPED UPON THEM.

YEA, HE MAGNIFIED HIMSELF EVEN TO THE PRINCE OF THE HOST, AND BY HIM THE DAILY SACRIFICE WAS TAKEN AWAY, AND THE PLACE OF THE SANCTUARY WAS CAST DOWN.

AND AN HOST WAS GIVEN HIM AGAINST THE DAILY SACRIFICE BY REASON OF TRANSGRESSION, AND IT CAST DOWN THE TRUTH TO THE GROUND; AND IT PRACTISED, AND PROSPERED.

THEN I HEARD ONE SAINT SPEAKING, AND ANOTHER SAINT SAID UNTO THAT CERTAIN SAINT WHICH SPAKE, HOW LONG SHALL BE THE VISION CONCERNING THE DAILY SACRIFICE, AND THE TRANSGRESSION OF DESOLATION, TO GIVE BOTH THE SANCTUARY AND THE HOST TO BE TRODDEN UNDER FOOT?

AND HE SAID UNTO ME, UNTO TWO THOUSAND AND THREE HUNDRED DAYS; THEN SHALL THE SANCTUARY BE CLEANSED.”

~DANIEL 8:3-14



As mentioned above, this vision starts with the second kingdom: Medo-Persia (the ram). The ram has two horns (dual kingdom) and one horn was higher and came up last. The first (smaller) horn represents Darius, king of the Medes, the higher horn that comes later represents Cyrus the Great, the Persian king. The ram “pushing westward, and northward, and southward” refers to the directions of conquest of the Medo-Persian kingdom:


MEDO-PERSIA IN ORANGE.


The goat therefore must represent Greece and Alexander the Great’s (notable horn between the eyes) speedy invasion (was so fast that it did not touch the ground). It came from the west (from Daniel’s point of view, Greece was westwards), it destroys the horns of the ram (Alexander the Great overthrew the Persian King Darius III and conquered the entirety of the Persian Empire) and the goat waxed very great (Alexander the Great was undefeated in battle and is considered one of history's most successful commanders) and when he was strong, the horn was broken and four new horns came up (Alexander died in Babylon in 323 BC at age 32 when he was strong, because he was still busy planning to invade Arabia and after his death his four generals took over the kingdom).

In this vision it’s not the fifth beast that is represented by a little horn coming up, it’s the fourth. This is again a clue that the fourth and the fifth beast are related. This little horn waxed exceeding great just like the fourth beast in Daniel 7:7 was “strong exceedingly”. By this horn (fourth beast) the daily sacrifice was taken away and the place of the sanctuary was cast down (the second Jewish temple was destroyed by the Romans) and he “magnified himself even to the prince of the host (Jesus was crucified under the Roman reign).


The last part of the vision has a time prophecy concerning the end. Again Daniel asks for understanding and receives an explanation from the angel Gabriel. I will not go over the historical facts anymore, because the explanation simply tells us which kingdoms the ram and the goat represent and just a little research on the Roman Empire will tell you that that is indeed the fourth kingdom (third in this vision since Babylon was left out):


“THE RAM WHICH THOU SAWEST HAVING TWO HORNS ARE THE KINGS OF MEDIA AND PERSIA.

AND THE ROUGH GOAT IS THE KING OF GRECIA: AND THE GREAT HORN THAT IS BETWEEN HIS EYES IS THE FIRST KING.

NOW THAT BEING BROKEN, WHEREAS FOUR STOOD UP FOR IT, FOUR KINGDOMS SHALL STAND UP OUT OF THE NATION, BUT NOT IN HIS POWER.

AND IN THE LATTER TIME OF THEIR KINGDOM, WHEN THE TRANSGRESSORS ARE COME TO THE FULL, A KING OF FIERCE COUNTENANCE, AND UNDERSTANDING DARK SENTENCES, SHALL STAND UP.

AND HIS POWER SHALL BE MIGHTY, BUT NOT BY HIS OWN POWER: AND HE SHALL DESTROY WONDERFULLY, AND SHALL PROSPER, AND PRACTISE, AND SHALL DESTROY THE MIGHTY AND THE HOLY PEOPLE.

AND THROUGH HIS POLICY ALSO HE SHALL CAUSE CRAFT TO PROSPER IN HIS HAND; AND HE SHALL MAGNIFY HIMSELF IN HIS HEART, AND BY PEACE SHALL DESTROY MANY: HE SHALL ALSO STAND UP AGAINST THE PRINCE OF PRINCES; BUT HE SHALL BE BROKEN WITHOUT HAND.

AND THE VISION OF THE EVENING AND THE MORNING WHICH WAS TOLD IS TRUE: WHEREFORE SHUT THOU UP THE VISION; FOR IT SHALL BE FOR MANY DAYS.

~DANIEL 8:20-26



The beasts and the time prophecies are all part of the same end time prophecy of Daniel and revelation, it’s all connected. The vision is not just to show the kingdoms and which will be the last, it also shows time prophecies; the 70 weeks of Daniel 9 foretelling the first coming of Christ, the 2300 days foretelling the time that the truth shall be “cast down to the ground” and by that we can even know the exact year the truth was being brought back to light for understanding. But if I have to go into that now, this post will be twice as long, so I will keep that for another time but it’s all part of the same end time prophecy. Daniel 11 has in-depth information about the kingdoms, starting with Medo-Persia, ending with the fifth beast, the “little horn” starting from verse 31 (referred as the ”abomination that maketh desolate”) until the end of Daniel 11. Daniel 12 gives more time prophecies, plus again refers to the time the fifth beast shall reign: “…for a time, times and an half…”. Like I said already, I will not go into the time prophecies now, but this “time, times and an half” is important to mention because it is a huge hint on the fifth beast. So far for Daniel in this post, on to Revelation.


REVELATION – BEAST NUMBER 5, 6, 7 AND 8 AND THE MARK OF THE BEAST

Revelation is more difficult to understand than Daniel for two reasons: it’s all prophecy thus symbolic and it’s not in chronological order. Some think that the letters to the 7 churches in Revelation 2 & 3 are literal, but in Revelation 1 (introductory) we read that it is a vision that John has and as we learned already from Daniel, visions are overall symbolic. The seven churches represent the phases religion goes through from the time of John until the end. The symbolism is important to understand when you read Revelation. There will not be a multiple-headed beast walking this earth at the end with a prostitute on its back. It is symbolic and gives us hints about the identity of the beast and therefore ALSO about the mark of the beast. Knowing the beast means knowing its mark.

Anyway, there is a lot in Revelation to study and understand, but I will discuss only Revelation 13, 17 and a little of Revelation 12 for now, because those chapters will show us the last four beasts.

Revelation 13 starts off with the fifth beast:


AND I STOOD UPON THE SAND OF THE SEA, AND SAW A BEAST RISE UP OUT OF THE SEA, HAVING SEVEN HEADS AND TEN HORNS, AND UPON HIS HORNS TEN CROWNS, AND UPON HIS HEADS THE NAME OF BLASPHEMY.

AND THE BEAST WHICH I SAW WAS LIKE UNTO A LEOPARD, AND HIS FEET WERE AS THE FEET OF A BEAR, AND HIS MOUTH AS THE MOUTH OF A LION: AND THE DRAGON GAVE HIM HIS POWER, AND HIS SEAT, AND GREAT AUTHORITY.

AND I SAW ONE OF HIS HEADS AS IT WERE WOUNDED TO DEATH; AND HIS DEADLY WOUND WAS HEALED: AND ALL THE WORLD WONDERED AFTER THE BEAST.

AND THEY WORSHIPPED THE DRAGON WHICH GAVE POWER UNTO THE BEAST: AND THEY WORSHIPPED THE BEAST, SAYING, WHO IS LIKE UNTO THE BEAST? WHO IS ABLE TO MAKE WAR WITH HIM?

AND THERE WAS GIVEN UNTO HIM A MOUTH SPEAKING GREAT THINGS AND BLASPHEMIES; AND POWER WAS GIVEN UNTO HIM TO CONTINUE FORTY AND TWO MONTHS.

AND HE OPENED HIS MOUTH IN BLASPHEMY AGAINST GOD, TO BLASPHEME HIS NAME, AND HIS TABERNACLE, AND THEM THAT DWELL IN HEAVEN.

AND IT WAS GIVEN UNTO HIM TO MAKE WAR WITH THE SAINTS, AND TO OVERCOME THEM: AND POWER WAS GIVEN HIM OVER ALL KINDREDS, AND TONGUES, AND NATIONS.

AND ALL THAT DWELL UPON THE EARTH SHALL WORSHIP HIM, WHOSE NAMES ARE NOT WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE OF THE LAMB SLAIN FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD.

IF ANY MAN HAVE AN EAR, LET HIM HEAR.

HE THAT LEADETH INTO CAPTIVITY SHALL GO INTO CAPTIVITY: HE THAT KILLETH WITH THE SWORD MUST BE KILLED WITH THE SWORD. HERE IS THE PATIENCE AND THE FAITH OF THE SAINTS.

AND I BEHELD ANOTHER BEAST COMING UP OUT OF THE EARTH; AND HE HAD TWO HORNS LIKE A LAMB, AND HE SPAKE AS A DRAGON.

AND HE EXERCISETH ALL THE POWER OF THE FIRST BEAST BEFORE HIM, AND CAUSETH THE EARTH AND THEM WHICH DWELL THEREIN TO WORSHIP THE FIRST BEAST, WHOSE DEADLY WOUND WAS HEALED.

AND HE DOETH GREAT WONDERS, SO THAT HE MAKETH FIRE COME DOWN FROM HEAVEN ON THE EARTH IN THE SIGHT OF MEN,

AND DECEIVETH THEM THAT DWELL ON THE EARTH BY THE MEANS OF THOSE MIRACLES WHICH HE HAD POWER TO DO IN THE SIGHT OF THE BEAST; SAYING TO THEM THAT DWELL ON THE EARTH, THAT THEY SHOULD MAKE AN IMAGE TO THE BEAST, WHICH HAD THE WOUND BY A SWORD, AND DID LIVE.

AND HE HAD POWER TO GIVE LIFE UNTO THE IMAGE OF THE BEAST, THAT THE IMAGE OF THE BEAST SHOULD BOTH SPEAK, AND CAUSE THAT AS MANY AS WOULD NOT WORSHIP THE IMAGE OF THE BEAST SHOULD BE KILLED.

AND HE CAUSETH ALL, BOTH SMALL AND GREAT, RICH AND POOR, FREE AND BOND, TO RECEIVE A MARK IN THEIR RIGHT HAND, OR IN THEIR FOREHEADS:

AND THAT NO MAN MIGHT BUY OR SELL, SAVE HE THAT HAD THE MARK, OR THE NAME OF THE BEAST, OR THE NUMBER OF HIS NAME.


HERE IS WISDOM. LET HIM THAT HATH UNDERSTANDING COUNT THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST: FOR IT IS THE NUMBER OF A MAN; AND HIS NUMBER IS SIX HUNDRED THREESCORE AND SIX.

~REVELATION 13



More information about the fifth beast and we also meet the sixth beast (in red). For those who are not sure that this is indeed the beast that comes after the fourth instead of being the fourth, let’s examine the details given. Verse one tells us it has ten horns, which makes some people think that this is the fourth beast, but that detail merely gives us yet again a hint that this fifth beast is CONNECTED to the fourth. Verse two is another clue that this is not the actual fourth beast of Daniel, because it mentions that this beast is like unto all the previous four. This time the first three kingdoms (leopard: Greece, bear: Medo-Persia and lion: Babylon) are mentioned backwards and the fourth beast (here referred to as the dragon) is last. The simple explanation for this is that at the time Revelation was written, the first three kingdoms were already history, where in Daniel they were all future. Daniel was looking forward; John is looking back in time.

So why is this forth beast now referred to as a dragon? How do we know that the dragon is indeed the fourth beast while in Daniel it’s never been referred to as a dragon? For that we need to go back one chapter:


“AND THERE APPEARED A GREAT WONDER IN HEAVEN; A WOMAN CLOTHED WITH THE SUN, AND THE MOON UNDER HER FEET, AND UPON HER HEAD A CROWN OF TWELVE STARS:

AND SHE BEING WITH CHILD CRIED, TRAVAILING IN BIRTH, AND PAINED TO BE DELIVERED.

AND THERE APPEARED ANOTHER WONDER IN HEAVEN; AND BEHOLD A GREAT RED DRAGON, HAVING SEVEN HEADS AND TEN HORNS, AND SEVEN CROWNS UPON HIS HEADS.

AND HIS TAIL DREW THE THIRD PART OF THE STARS OF HEAVEN, AND DID CAST THEM TO THE EARTH: AND THE DRAGON STOOD BEFORE THE WOMAN WHICH WAS READY TO BE DELIVERED, FOR TO DEVOUR HER CHILD AS SOON AS IT WAS BORN.

AND SHE BROUGHT FORTH A MAN CHILD, WHO WAS TO RULE ALL NATIONS WITH A ROD OF IRON: AND HER CHILD WAS CAUGHT UP UNTO GOD, AND TO HIS THRONE.

AND THE WOMAN FLED INTO THE WILDERNESS, WHERE SHE HATH A PLACE PREPARED OF GOD, THAT THEY SHOULD FEED HER THERE A THOUSAND TWO HUNDRED AND THREESCORE DAYS.”

~REVELATION 12:1-6



Here we see the dragon mentioned. If we decode the symbolism, we will see very clearly that this is indeed the fourth beast of Daniel: the Roman Empire.

This woman represents the church of truth and the baby she carries is Jesus. This site explains very well the symbolism of the woman and the child so I will link it to save space: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

The dragon has 7 heads (will be explained later), 10 horns (division of the Roman Empire into 10 kingdoms) and 7 crowns (3 of the 10 kingdoms destroyed before the little horn came up, remember?) and it wants to kill the woman’s child (King Herod commanded all the male babies in Bethlehem had to be killed, because he wanted baby Jesus dead). As you will see later on, the seven heads will remove all doubt (if there still is some) that this dragon is the fourth beast.


Revelation 13:2 tells us that the beast mentioned receives its seat FROM the dragon, which means it is a new beast. So who is this beast that apparently is so important that it gets so much attention in the end time prophecies? Once you recognize that the Roman Empire is the fourth beast, it’s actually pretty easy, but let’s take a look at the main characteristics.

•   #1. Rises up out of the sea (Rev. 13:1)
•   #2. Power, his seat and great authority given to it by the dragon (Rev. 13:2)
•   #3. Receives a deadly wound that will heal (Rev. 13:3,14)
•   #4. Is a religious power because it receives worship (Rev. 13:4,8)
•   #5. Is blasphemous (Rev. 13:5,6)
•   #6. Rules for 42 (prophetic) months (Rev. 13:5)
•   #7. Makes war with the saints and overcomes them (Rev. 13:7)
•   #8. It is a universal power (Rev. 13:7)
•   #9. The number of its name is 666 (Rev. 13:17,18)
•   #10. Is ruled by one superior man (Rev. 13:18)

It doesn’t really take a rocket scientist to figure out which world power is meant with this fifth beast because the prophecy is crystal clear. There is only world power in history of mankind that fits ALL TEN points: the papacy, the Roman Catholic Church, PART OF and RELATED TO the Roman Empire, as the hints about the fifth beast in Daniel already indicated. But for those still in doubt, let’s examine all points closely to be absolutely sure.

1.   RISES UP OUT OF THE SEA
Water or sea in Bible prophesy symbolizes great multitudes of people or high populated area (see Revelation 17:15; Isaiah 17:12). When the papacy rose to power, the Western Roman Empire was a highly populated area, if not the most populated area in the world. Population congregates around water: lakes, rivers, ocean shores, etc.  Also, human body and especially brain is made up mostly of water.  All the Bible symbols have a reason why something represents something else; there is always a reason as to WHY God chose a particular symbol.
Four winds strove on the "great sea" (Daniel 7).  In the Bible, the "great sea" almost always refers to the Mediterranean Sea, which was the center of highly populated areas back then (and still is).

2. POWER, HIS SEAT AND GREAT AUTHORITY GIVEN TO IT BY THE DRAGON
Quote (selected)
“To the succession of the ceasars [Roman emperors] came the succession of the pontiffs [popes] in Rome. When Constantine left Rome he gave his seat to the pontiff.”
~Labianca, Professor of History, University of Rome

3. RECEIVES A DEADLY WOUND THAT WILL HEAL
At the end of the French Revolution, in February 1798, the papacy is removed from power by French General Louis Alexandre Berthier. The pope is taken captive and dies in exhale and everyone thinks that this is the end of the papacy (deadly wound on beast/political power, not the end of the papacy because we all know that the papacy still exists to this day).

4. IS A RELIGIOUS POWER BECAUSE IT RECEIVES WORSHIP
The fact that Revelation 13 mentions over and over again that this beast will be worshipped clearly shows that this beast must be a religious power (different from the former kingdoms).


5. IS BLASPHEMOUS
The Bible defines blasphemy as man claiming to forgive sins (Luke 5:21) and claiming to be God (John 10:33). Let’s see what the Catholic Church claims:

Quote (selected)
"ALL NAMES WHICH IN THE SCRIPTURES ARE APPLIED TO CHRIST, BY VIRTUE OF WHICH IT IS ESTABLISHED THAT HE IS OVER THE CHURCH, ALL THE SAME NAMES ARE APPLIED TO THE POPE."
~ON THE AUTHORITY OF THE COUNCILS, BOOK 2, CHAPTER 17

Quote (selected)
"THE POPE AND GOD ARE THE SAME, SO HE HAS ALL POWER IN HEAVEN AND EARTH."
~POPE PIUS V, QUOTED IN BARCLAY, CHAPTER XXVII, P. 218, "CITIES PETRUS BERTANOUS"

Quote (selected)
"THE POPE TAKES THE PLACE OF JESUS CHRIST ON EARTH...BY DIVINE RIGHT THE POPE HAS SUPREME AND FULL POWER IN FAITH, IN MORALS OVER EACH AND EVERY PASTOR AND HIS FLOCK. HE IS THE TRUE VICAR, THE HEAD OF THE ENTIRE CHURCH, THE FATHER AND TEACHER OF ALL CHRISTIANS. HE IS THE INFALLIBLE RULER, THE FOUNDER OF DOGMAS, THE AUTHOR OF AND THE JUDGE OF COUNCILS; THE UNIVERSAL RULER OF TRUTH, THE ARBITER OF THE WORLD, THE SUPREME JUDGE OF HEAVEN AND EARTH, THE JUDGE OF ALL, BEING JUDGED BY NO ONE, GOD HIMSELF ON EARTH."
~QUOTED IN THE NEW YORK CATECHISM.

Quote (selected)
"TO BELIEVE THAT OUR LORD GOD THE POPE HAS NOT THE POWER TO DECREE AS HE IS DECREED, IS TO BE DEEMED HERETICAL."
~ ROMAN CANON LAW 1685

Quote (selected)
"IT IS QUITE CERTAIN THAT POPES HAVE NEVER APPROVED OR REJECTED THIS TITLE 'LORD GOD THE POPE,' FOR THE PASSAGE IN THE GLOSS REFERRED TO APPEARS IN THE EDITION OF THE CANON LAW PUBLISHED IN ROME IN 1580 BY GREGORY XIII."
~ FATHER A. PEREIRA

Quote (selected)
"THE POPE AND GOD ARE THE SAME, SO HE HAS ALL POWER IN HEAVEN AND EARTH."
~BARCLAY CAP. XXVII, P. 218. CITIES PETRUS BERTRANDUS, PIUS V. - CARDINAL CUSA SUPPORTS HIS STATEMENT.

Quote (selected)
"THE APPELLATION OF GOD HAD BEEN CONFIRMED BY CONSTANTINE ON THE POPE, WHO, BEING GOD, CANNOT BE JUDGED BY MAN."
~ POPE NICHOLAS I, LABB IX DIST.: 96 CAN. 7, SATIS EVIDENTUR, DECRET GRATIAN PRIMER PARA

Quote (selected)
"THE POPE IS NOT ONLY THE REPRESENTATIVE OF JESUS CHRIST, HE IS JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF, HIDDEN UNDER THE VEIL OF FLESH."
~CATHOLIC NATIONAL, JULY 1895

Quote (selected)
"WE HOLD UPON THIS EARTH THE PLACE OF GOD ALMIGHTY"
~POPE LEO XIII ENCYCLICAL LETTER OF JUNE 20, 1894

6. RULES FOR 42 (PROPHETIC) MONTHS
In Bible prophecy, one prophetic day equals one literal year (see Ezekiel 4:6 and Numbers 14:34). Earlier on, in Daniel, we have seen another time prophecy for this fifth beast: “time, times and a dividing of time” (Daniel 7:25; 12:7). Therefore we know now that these have to be the exact same time periods: the reign of the fifth beast. 42 months is equal to 3.5 years, which means ‘time’ here should be read as ‘year’ and thus ‘times’ refers to 2 years in order to get it summed up to 3.5 years. The same time prophecy is given about the woman (good church) that fled into the wilderness. The wording is almost identical, except time, times, and a half is replaced by 1260 days (score means 20, threescore is therefore 60).


“AND THE WOMAN FLED INTO THE WILDERNESS, WHERE SHE HATH A PLACE PREPARED OF GOD, THAT THEY SHOULD FEED HER THERE A THOUSAND TWO HUNDRED AND THREESCORE DAYS.

AND TO THE WOMAN WERE GIVEN TWO WINGS OF A GREAT EAGLE, THAT SHE MIGHT FLY INTO THE WILDERNESS, INTO HER PLACE, WHERE SHE IS NOURISHED FOR A TIME, AND TIMES, AND HALF A TIME, FROM THE FACE OF THE SERPENT.”

~REVELATION 12:6,14



But it does not mean 3.5 literal years for two reasons: we know the papacy ruled much longer than that and those times are mentioned in prophecy, thus symbolic. If we keep in mind that a biblical year had 12 x 30 days, we see that 42 months (42 x 30) are 1260 prophetic days, and 3.5 years (3.5 x 360) are also 1260 prophetic days. Now if we go back to the Biblical ‘day for a year’ principle we have a time prophecy for the reign of the papacy as a political power of 1260 literal years. Let’s see how long the papacy had political power:

In 534 AD, Justinian decreed that the bishop of Rome be the supreme head over all the churches, definer of doctrine and corrector of heretics (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login).

Quote (selected)
“FOR WE DO NOT SUFFER ANYTHING WHICH HAS REFERENCE TO THE STATE OF THE CHURCH, EVEN THOUGH WHAT CAUSES THE DIFFICULTY MAY BE CLEAR AND FREE FROM DOUBT, TO BE DISCUSSED WITHOUT BEING BROUGHT TO THE NOTICE OF YOUR HOLINESS, BECAUSE YOU ARE THE HEAD OF ALL THE HOLY CHURCHES, FOR WE SHALL EXERT OURSELVES IN EVERY WAY (AS HAS ALREADY BEEN STATED), TO INCREASE THE HONOR AND AUTHORITY OF YOUR SEE.”
~ EMPEROR JUSTINIAN, VICTORIOUS, PIOUS, HAPPY, RENOWNED, TRIUMPHANT, ALWAYS AUGUSTUS, TO JOHN, PATRIARCH, AND MOST HOLY ARCHBISHOP OF THE FAIR CITY OF ROME, CODE OF JUSTINIAN You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

This decree, although promulgated, could not be given effect immediately because several very strong groups warred against the bishop of Rome, including the Heruli, the Vandals and the Ostrogoths. The first two groups were dealt with; Heruli in 493 AD with the death of Odoacer, Vandals in 534 AD by the hands of Justinian who managed to reconquer the Africa province for the Eastern Roman (Byzantine) Empire. (The Byzantine Empire (Justinian and Belisarius) was the continuation of imperial ROME, moved from Italy to Constantinople/Istanbul in 330 AD.)
However, the Ostrogoths besieged Rome in 537 AD (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login ), with the pope inside the city walls. Thus, the pope was effectively imprisoned by the Ostrogoths, who certainly intended to overthrow him. Justinian replaced the (by Belisarius deposed) Silverius with Vigilius as the new pope and gave him military protection and in 538 AD Belisarius lifted the siege of Rome (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login ). The decree of Justinian could finally be given effect, starting the rise of the (official) political power of the papacy.

Although the Ostrogothic Kingdom was destroyed in phases, the hardest beating which would mark the beginning of the end was in March 538 when Witiges, king of the Ostrogoths, ended his siege of Rome, leaving the city in the hands of the victorious Byzantine general Belisarius. March 538 was the end of the LONGEST and MOST SUCCESSFUL resistance against papal Rome: the siege lasted for more than a year!

The Heruli, the Vandals and the Ostrogoths are the 3 horns from the fourth beast in Daniel 7 that were ‘plucked up by the roots’ and subdued by the ‘little horn’.

When did the power of the papacy come to an end again? Right, 1798 (see point 3 about the deadly wound it receives). 1798-538 = exactly 1260 years.

A last important point to mention is that in Daniel 7:25 it says that the saints shall be “given into his [the fifth beast’s] hands until a time and times and the dividing of time”. Given into his hands refers to the power to persecute those that did not agree with the Catholic Church that the papacy received when Justinian’s decree came into effect in 538 AD. The power to persecute came to an end in 1798.

7.   MAKES WAR WITH THE SAINTS AND OVERCOMES THEM
Quote (selected)
"...THE CHURCH OF ROME HAS SHED MORE INNOCENT BLOOD THAN ANY OTHER INSTITUTION THAT HAS EVER EXISTED AMONG MANKIND, WILL BE QUESTIONED BY NO PROTESTANT WHO HAS A COMPETENT KNOWLEDGE OF HISTORY..."
~ HISTORIAN W.E. LECKY

Quote (selected)
"FOR PROFESSING FAITH CONTRARY TO THE TEACHINGS OF THE CHURCH OF ROME, HISTORY RECORDS THE MARTYRDOM OF MORE THAN ONE HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE..."
~ BRIEF BIBLE READINGS

8. IT IS A UNIVERSAL POWER BECAUSE POWER WAS GIVEN HIM OVER ALL KINDREDS, AND TONGUES, AND NATIONS
No one will argue that the Roman Catholic Church, with more than one billion members, is to date the largest religious institution. But to remove all doubt, let’s look at the meaning of ‘catholic’.

Quote (selected)
“THE WORD CATHOLIC (DERIVED VIA LATE LATIN CATHOLICUS, FROM THE GREEK ADJECTIVE ΚΑΘΟΛΙΚΌΣ (KATHOLIKOS), MEANING "UNIVERSAL”) COMES FROM THE GREEK PHRASE ΚΑΘΌΛΟΥ (KATH'HOLOU), MEANING "ON THE WHOLE," "ACCORDING TO THE WHOLE" OR "IN GENERAL", AND IS A COMBINATION OF THE GREEK WORDS ΚΑΤΆ MEANING "ABOUT" AND ΌΛΟΣ MEANING "WHOLE". THE WORD IN ENGLISH CAN MEAN EITHER "INCLUDING A WIDE VARIETY OF THINGS; ALL-EMBRACING" OR "OF THE ROMAN CATHOLIC FAITH" AS "RELATING TO THE HISTORIC DOCTRINE AND PRACTICE OF THE WESTERN CHURCH."
IT WAS FIRST USED TO DESCRIBE THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH IN THE EARLY 2ND CENTURY TO EMPHASIZE ITS UNIVERSAL SCOPE. IN THE CONTEXT OF CHRISTIAN ECCLESIOLOGY, IT HAS A RICH HISTORY AND SEVERAL USAGES. IN NON-ECCLESIASTICAL USE, IT DERIVES ITS ENGLISH MEANING DIRECTLY FROM ITS ROOT, AND IS CURRENTLY USED TO MEAN

UNIVERSAL OR OF GENERAL INTEREST;
LIBERAL, HAVING BROAD INTERESTS, OR WIDE SYMPATHIES; OR
INCLUSIVE, INVITING AND CONTAINING STRONG EVANGELISM.”

~WIKIPEDIA, ARTICLE ‘CATHOLIC’

9. THE NUMBER OF ITS NAME IS 666
According to the Catholic Church and its supporters, the following is an anti-Catholic conspiracy theory from the Protestants and it denies the claim. But whether it is true or not, in BOTH cases they would deny it: either because it was really false or because it IS true and they don’t want you to know. I will quote from Wikipedia:

Quote (selected)
“THE CONVICTION THAT THE POPE IS THE ANTICHRIST WAS ONCE A COMMON BELIEF AMONG PROTESTANTS. SOME MAINSTREAM PROTESTANT DENOMINATIONS HAVE SINCE REJECTED THIS TEACHING, BUT IT IS STILL PART OF THE CONFESSION OF FAITH OF SOME PROTESTANT CHURCHES, SUCH AS THOSE WITHIN CONFESSIONAL LUTHERANISM. SOME PROTESTANT GROUPS CONTROVERSIALLY IDENTIFY THE ROMAN PAPACY WITH THE "NUMBER OF THE BEAST" (666) FROM THE BOOK OF REVELATION.

THE EARLIEST EXTANT RECORD OF A PROTESTANT WRITER ON THIS SUBJECT AND ADDRESSING THE PHRASE VICARIUS FILII DEI IS ANDREAS HELWIG IN 1612. IN HIS WORK ANTICHRISTUS ROMANUS HE TOOK FIFTEEN TITLES IN HEBREW, GREEK, AND LATIN AND COMPUTED THEIR NUMERICAL EQUIVALENTS IN THOSE LANGUAGES, ARRIVING AT THE NUMBER 666 MENTIONED IN THE BOOK OF REVELATION. OUT OF ALL THESE TITLES, HE PREFERRED TO SINGLE OUT VICARIUS FILII DEI, USED IN THE DONATION OF CONSTANTINE, FOR THE REASON THAT IT MET "ALL THE CONDITIONS WHICH [CARDINAL] BELLARMINE HAD THUS FAR DEMANDED." BESIDES BEING IN LATIN, THE TITLE WAS "NOT OFFENSIVE OR VILE," BUT RATHER WAS "HONORABLE TO THIS VERY ONE." (THE SUM WORKS AS FOLLOWS: VICARIVS FILII DEI = 5+1+100+1+5+1+50+1+1+500+1 = 666, WHERE 'U' IS TAKEN AS 'V', SEE U FOR INTERCHANGEABILITY REASONING). IN FACT, FOLLOWING THE ONLY WAY TO READ ROMAN NUMERALS WHERE "'IV' MEANS 4" AND NEVER 1+5, THE SUM IS 664 RATHER THAN 666.**

HELWIG SUGGESTED THAT THE SUPPOSED TITLE WAS AN EXPANSION OF THE HISTORICAL TITLE VICARIUS CHRISTI, RATHER THAN AN OFFICIAL TITLE USED BY THE POPES THEMSELVES. HIS INTERPRETATION DID NOT BECOME COMMON UNTIL ABOUT THE TIME OF THE FRENCH REVOLUTION. SOME LATER PROTESTANT FIGURES CLAIMED THAT VICARIUS FILII DEI WAS AN OFFICIAL TITLE OF THE POPE, WITH SOME SAYING THAT THIS TITLE APPEARED ON THE PAPAL TIARA AND/OR A MITRE.”
~You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

**Roman numerals in the name are to be taken as individual letters, or else the entire name as one long string (which doesn't work).

So the "IV" equals four idea comes from not taking the two letters as individual quantities. But if we do that with this number, then we are making it into a string of letters instead of counting each letter separately and it will give a non-existing number.

Also, to fit the Biblical beast it has to fit more than just 666, it has to fit ALL the characteristics (which we are going through) and the SYSTEM used to COUNT the number of the beast (which the verse tells us to COUNT it): is the ROMAN numeral system, the system of the ROMAN beast.

Also, let’s have a look at the actual meaning of ‘antichrist’.

Vicarius means Vicar, or IN PLACE OF, Antichrist means IN PLACE of Christ (not opposed to Christ) and Filii Dei literally means: Son (Filii) of God (Dei).

So Vicar of the Son of God is one and the same meaning as Antichrist and this name in Latin (the language of ROME, the POPE) adds up to 666.

The original Greek word is “ἀντίχριστος”, from ἀντί (anti: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login) and χριστος (Christos: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login)

Here they themselves admit the CONCEPT applies to the pope: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Vicar of CHRIST they admit, so who is Christ, if not the Son of God? And this is from the official "catholic.com" website. Actually, vicar of Christ is EXACTLY the same as anti-CHRIST (not anti-SonofGod).


10. IS RULED BY ONE SUPERIOR MAN
No need for explanation here: that would be the pope. All kingdoms were ruled by a single individual (king, president, etc) one at a time, though more than one down through time.


Then we have the sixth beast, also mentioned in Revelation 13. It rises up later than the beast, but it does not overthrow it, like the first four beasts overthrew each other. We also have established from the hints about the fifth beast in Daniel, that the beast would be destroyed by God at the end of times, which must mean this sixth beast rises up next to the fifth. Let’s look at the text again:


AND I BEHELD ANOTHER BEAST COMING UP OUT OF THE EARTH; AND HE HAD TWO HORNS LIKE A LAMB, AND HE SPAKE AS A DRAGON.

AND HE EXERCISETH ALL THE POWER OF THE FIRST BEAST BEFORE HIM, AND CAUSETH THE EARTH AND THEM WHICH DWELL THEREIN TO WORSHIP THE FIRST BEAST, WHOSE DEADLY WOUND WAS HEALED.

AND HE DOETH GREAT WONDERS, SO THAT HE MAKETH FIRE COME DOWN FROM HEAVEN ON THE EARTH IN THE SIGHT OF MEN,

AND DECEIVETH THEM THAT DWELL ON THE EARTH BY THE MEANS OF THOSE MIRACLES WHICH HE HAD POWER TO DO IN THE SIGHT OF THE BEAST; SAYING TO THEM THAT DWELL ON THE EARTH, THAT THEY SHOULD MAKE AN IMAGE TO THE BEAST, WHICH HAD THE WOUND BY A SWORD, AND DID LIVE.

AND HE HAD POWER TO GIVE LIFE UNTO THE IMAGE OF THE BEAST, THAT THE IMAGE OF THE BEAST SHOULD BOTH SPEAK, AND CAUSE THAT AS MANY AS WOULD NOT WORSHIP THE IMAGE OF THE BEAST SHOULD BE KILLED.

AND HE CAUSETH ALL, BOTH SMALL AND GREAT, RICH AND POOR, FREE AND BOND, TO RECEIVE A MARK IN THEIR RIGHT HAND, OR IN THEIR FOREHEADS:

AND THAT NO MAN MIGHT BUY OR SELL, SAVE HE THAT HAD THE MARK, OR THE NAME OF THE BEAST, OR THE NUMBER OF HIS NAME.

~REVELATION 13:11-17



Unlike the fifth beast, that came out of the sea (highly populated area), this beast comes out of the earth, representing a not so populated area. Two horns like a lamb tells us it appears as a Christian nation, speaking like a dragon tells us it ‘spake like Rome’, through passing laws.

Exercising the power of the fifth beast refers to its great political power.

Then the verse tells us it causes people to worship the fifth beast, who’s deadly wound was HEALED. The deadly wound was caused when the political power and the power to persecute was taken away at the end of the French Revolution. The papacy did not receive this power back yet, so that means that the rest is still future, although the ones already recognizing this first beast, will know that this beast indeed has power to perform ‘miracles’. There is only one nation that rose to great political power after the ‘deadly wound’ of the papacy which is still in power to this day: the United States of America. Nowhere in Revelation do we read this sixth beast will be overthrown by another, they will exist until the end together with the fifth. The USA are the image of the beast, and not the beast itself. They will cause people to receive the mark of the beast (enforce it upon them) but the mark is NOT their mark, it’s the mark of the fifth beast, as we read in Revelation 18:13. They will work together with the beast to give it back its power so that everyone will worship the beast. That also indicates that the mark of the beast has something to do with worship, that it is something religious.

Revelation 17 removes all doubt about the fifth beast. It starts with a vision John has, followed by an explanation. Here is the vision:


“AND THERE CAME ONE OF THE SEVEN ANGELS WHICH HAD THE SEVEN VIALS, AND TALKED WITH ME, SAYING UNTO ME, COME HITHER; I WILL SHEW UNTO THEE THE JUDGMENT OF THE GREAT WHORE THAT SITTETH UPON MANY WATERS:

WITH WHOM THE KINGS OF THE EARTH HAVE COMMITTED FORNICATION, AND THE INHABITANTS OF THE EARTH HAVE BEEN MADE DRUNK WITH THE WINE OF HER FORNICATION.


[Start of actual vision:] SO HE CARRIED ME AWAY IN THE SPIRIT INTO THE WILDERNESS:  AND I SAW A WOMAN SIT UPON A SCARLET COLOURED BEAST, FULL OF NAMES OF BLASPHEMY, HAVING SEVEN HEADS AND TEN HORNS.

AND THE WOMAN WAS ARRAYED IN PURPLE AND SCARLET COLOUR, AND DECKED WITH GOLD AND PRECIOUS STONES AND PEARLS, HAVING A GOLDEN CUP IN HER HAND FULL OF ABOMINATIONS AND FILTHINESS OF HER FORNICATION:

AND UPON HER FOREHEAD WAS A NAME WRITTEN, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

AND I SAW THE WOMAN DRUNKEN WITH THE BLOOD OF THE SAINTS, AND WITH THE BLOOD OF THE MARTYRS OF JESUS: AND WHEN I SAW HER, I WONDERED WITH GREAT ADMIRATION.

~REVELATION 17:3-6



A woman represents church, remember? And in this case it is a whore (bad religion) sitting upon many waters (having control over many people). It’s the fifth beast, which is made clear when we are shown that it has 7 heads and ten horns. ALL beasts/dragons/animals in Daniel and Revelation which have 7 head and 10 horns are referring to ROME (pagan and/or papal). When you search Google images for pictures of the Vatican, the pope or the Catholic Church, the verse that tells about the gold and precious stones and golden cup becomes extremely clear, if it wasn’t already. The woman is called the ‘mother of harlots’, which refers to the different protestant churches that come out of the Catholic Church. Even though the Protestants recognized the papacy as the antichrist, they are still not obeying God’s holy laws and are teaching false doctrines. And the woman was drunken with the blood of the saints (referring to the persecution of millions by the Catholic Church in the Dark Ages). Once you see which institution is meant with the fifth beast, the clues are all over the place. Here is the explanation from the angel about the beast.


“THE BEAST THAT THOU SAWEST WAS, AND IS NOT; AND SHALL ASCEND OUT OF THE BOTTOMLESS PIT, AND GO INTO PERDITION: AND THEY THAT DWELL ON THE EARTH SHALL WONDER, WHOSE NAMES WERE NOT WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, WHEN THEY BEHOLD THE BEAST THAT WAS, AND IS NOT, AND YET IS.

[those whose names are not written in the book of life refers to those receiving the mark of the beast]

AND HERE IS THE MIND WHICH HATH WISDOM. THE SEVEN HEADS ARE SEVEN MOUNTAINS, ON WHICH THE WOMAN SITTETH.

[the church ‘sits’ on seven mountains, or better known as the Seven Hills of Rome: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login]

AND THERE ARE SEVEN KINGS: FIVE ARE FALLEN, AND ONE IS, AND THE OTHER IS NOT YET COME; AND WHEN HE COMETH, HE MUST CONTINUE A SHORT SPACE.

[this gives us the time of the vision of John. 5 Kings are fallen (Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Pagan Rome, political power of the papacy), one is (USA) and one is not yet come but will not last long (referring to the fallen USSR, beast #7). For us this is now history, in the vision this was still future.]

AND THE BEAST THAT WAS, AND IS NOT, EVEN HE IS THE EIGHTH, AND IS OF THE SEVEN, AND GOETH INTO PERDITION.

[This is the confirmation of the papacy being the eighth beast. The beast was (papacy had political power which it lost in 1798), is not (received deadly wound and lost power, yet lived) and is the eighth. If that is not clear enough the angel continues saying that the eighth is one of the seven.]

AND THE TEN HORNS WHICH THOU SAWEST ARE TEN KINGS, WHICH HAVE RECEIVED NO KINGDOM AS YET; BUT RECEIVE POWER AS KINGS ONE HOUR WITH THE BEAST.

THESE HAVE ONE MIND, AND SHALL GIVE THEIR POWER AND STRENGTH UNTO THE BEAST.

THESE SHALL MAKE WAR WITH THE LAMB, AND THE LAMB SHALL OVERCOME THEM: FOR HE IS LORD OF LORDS, AND KING OF KINGS: AND THEY THAT ARE WITH HIM ARE CALLED, AND CHOSEN, AND FAITHFUL.


[this is still still future, because the ten receive power with the beast, when the beast itself has gained its power back. This did not happen yet, but there are speculations about this on the internet which I still have to study further.]

AND HE SAITH UNTO ME, THE WATERS WHICH THOU SAWEST, WHERE THE WHORE SITTETH, ARE PEOPLES, AND MULTITUDES, AND NATIONS, AND TONGUES.

[confirming the meaning of water and sea in the prophecy]

AND THE TEN HORNS WHICH THOU SAWEST UPON THE BEAST, THESE SHALL HATE THE WHORE, AND SHALL MAKE HER DESOLATE AND NAKED, AND SHALL EAT HER FLESH, AND BURN HER WITH FIRE.

FOR GOD HATH PUT IN THEIR HEARTS TO FULFIL HIS WILL, AND TO AGREE, AND GIVE THEIR KINGDOM UNTO THE BEAST, UNTIL THE WORDS OF GOD SHALL BE FULFILLED.


[the ‘ten kings’ that will support the papacy will know in the end that they are deceived and will seek revenge]

AND THE WOMAN WHICH THOU SAWEST IS THAT GREAT CITY, WHICH REIGNETH OVER THE KINGS OF THE EARTH.

[great city refers to Rome (the Vatican specifically)]

~REVELATION 17:8-18


So now that we have established the kingdoms (#1: Babylon, #2: Medo-Persia, #3. Greece,  #4. Rome, #5. Papacy,  #6. USA,  #7. USSR,  #8. Papacy), it is easier to see what the mark of THE beast (the 8th) will be. Actually, the Catholic Church even told us already what its mark is!


What does the papacy say is her symbol or mark of authority? 

Quote (selected)
"SUNDAY IS OUR MARK OF AUTHORITY...THE CHURCH IS ABOVE THE BIBLE, AND THIS TRANSFERENCE OF SABBATH OBSERVANCE IS PROOF OF THAT FACT." 
~THE CATHOLIC RECORD OF LONDON, ONTARIO, CANADA, SEPTEMBER 1, 1923

Quote (selected)
“Q: HAVE YOU ANY OTHER WAY OF PROVING THAT THE CHURCH HAS POWER TO INSTITUTE FESTIVALS OF PRECEPT?
A: HAD SHE NOT SUCH POWER, SHE COULD NOT HAVE DONE THAT IN WHICH ALL MODERN RELIGIONISTS AGREE WITH HER, SHE COULD NOT HAVE SUBSTITUTED THE OBSERVANCE OF SUNDAY, THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK, FOR THE OBSERVANCE OF SATURDAY, THE SEVENTH DAY, A CHANGE FOR WHICH THERE IS NO SCRIPTURAL AUTHORITY.”
~ A DOCTRINAL CATECHISM BY STEPHEN KEENAN

So by their own words, the Sunday worship is the MARK of the Papacy. What was the papacy again? Right, the BEAST. Sunday is the mark of the 5th beast, AND the woman (mother of harlots), AND the 8th beast. However, the prophecy of the enforcement of the mark of the beast, and receiving the mark, refers to the reign of the eighth beast. When Sunday is ENFORCED, that marks the beginning of the eighth beast, and the mark of the beast prophecy.


>>>>
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~Souza~

Re: TIAI January 21
February 06, 2012, 12:46:59 AM
>>>>

THE SEAL OF GOD

On the other hand, God has a sign of his authority as well. In Revelation 7:3 tells us that the servants of God will receive God’s seal in their foreheads. And as God is not the author of confusion, we know that we should be able to find the seal of God somewhere in the Bible. Firstly, let’s determine first what a seal is. A King’s seal for example will have three characteristics: it states the name of the King (for example Nebuchadnezzar), his function (king) and his territory (Babylon): Nebuchadnezzar, King of Babylon. A seal authenticates a document. 

So when looking in the Bible for God’s seal, we should look for something that has His name, function and territory in it. What document could God have authenticated? As far as I know, He only has written one document with His own fingers: the Ten Commandments. Now guess in which commandment we will find these three characteristics?


“REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY, TO KEEP IT HOLY.

SIX DAYS SHALT THOU LABOUR, AND DO ALL THY WORK:

BUT THE SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH OF THE LORD THY GOD: IN IT THOU SHALT NOT DO ANY WORK, THOU, NOR THY SON, NOR THY DAUGHTER, THY MANSERVANT, NOR THY MAIDSERVANT, NOR THY CATTLE, NOR THY STRANGER THAT IS WITHIN THY GATES:

FOR IN SIX DAYS THE LORD [name] MADE [function: creator] HEAVEN AND EARTH, THE SEA, AND ALL THAT IN THEM IS [territory], AND RESTED THE SEVENTH DAY: WHEREFORE THE LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH DAY, AND HALLOWED IT.”

~EXODUS 20:8-11



There it is, right there on His document, authenticating His document. The seal of God is the Sabbath day, the seventh day of the week. Notice also how it is the ONLY commandment that starts with “remember”. Did God know people would forget about it or say it wouldn’t matter much?

Does the New Testament indicate that the Sabbath should be dismissed, or that it doesn’t matter anymore? No. There is zero scriptural evidence that the Sabbath was done away with. Many will quote Paul who said that the law was nailed to the cross and that no one should judge you for not keeping the Sabbaths. But Paul was not referring to THE Sabbath, he was talking about the annual Sabbaths that were part of the laws written down by Moses on paper. He was not talking about God’s Holy day.


"LET NO MAN THEREFORE JUDGE YOU IN MEAT, OR IN DRINK, OR IN RESPECT OF AN HOLYDAY, OR OF THE NEW MOON, OR OF THE SABBATH DAYS:  WHICH ARE A SHADOW OF THINGS TO COME ..."

~COLOSSIANS 2:16,17




Paul himself clarifies the issue later on in Hebrews 10 by showing that the sabbaths which are a shadow is referring to the yearly system, the law of sacrifices and feast days that cycled "every year" (not weekly cycle).

Paul identifies WHICH sabbaths he is referring to. There would be no need to do that, if he was referring to ALL Sabbaths (weekly and yearly).


"FOR THE LAW HAVING A SHADOW OF GOOD THINGS TO COME, AND NOT THE VERY IMAGE OF THE THINGS, CAN NEVER WITH THOSE SACRIFICES WHICH THEY OFFERED YEAR BY YEAR CONTINUALLY MAKE THE COMERS THEREUNTO PERFECT. [...] BUT IN THOSE SACRIFICES THERE IS A REMEMBRANCE AGAIN MADE OF SINS EVERY YEAR."

~HEBREWS 10:1,3



Every scripture used today to support the Sunday worship, or no day at all, comes from Paul’s writings. Peter even warned that Paul’s writings might be misunderstood. It seems they were already a topic of debate in the first century AD.


“AND ACCOUNT THAT THE LONGSUFFERING OF OUR LORD IS SALVATION; EVEN AS OUR BELOVED BROTHER PAUL ALSO ACCORDING TO THE WISDOM GIVEN UNTO HIM HATH WRITTEN UNTO YOU;

AS ALSO IN ALL HIS EPISTLES, SPEAKING IN THEM OF THESE THINGS; IN WHICH ARE SOME THINGS HARD TO BE UNDERSTOOD, WHICH THEY THAT ARE UNLEARNED AND UNSTABLE WREST, AS THEY DO ALSO THE OTHER SCRIPTURES, UNTO THEIR OWN DESTRUCTION.

YE THEREFORE, BELOVED, SEEING YE KNOW THESE THINGS BEFORE, BEWARE LEST YE ALSO, BEING LED AWAY WITH THE ERROR OF THE WICKED, FALL FROM YOUR OWN STEDFASTNESS.”

~2 PETER 3:15-17



I am not going to quote all the misunderstood verses to save space, but throw them at me if you want and I will respond and try to explain.

You will see when you do a search that in the Old Testament God wanted His people to keep his statues (laws) and commandments. In the New Testament, we will see that the statues or laws disappeared and that Jesus asks only to keep his commandments:


“IF YE LOVE ME, KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.”

~JOHN 14:15

“HE THAT HATH MY COMMANDMENTS, AND KEEPETH THEM, HE IT IS THAT LOVETH ME: AND HE THAT LOVETH ME SHALL BE LOVED OF MY FATHER, AND I WILL LOVE HIM, AND WILL MANIFEST MYSELF TO HIM.”

~JOHN 14:21

“IF YE KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS, YE SHALL ABIDE IN MY LOVE; EVEN AS I HAVE KEPT MY FATHER'S COMMANDMENTS, AND ABIDE IN HIS LOVE.”

~JOHN 15:10


What commandments? HIS commandments, the ones He wrote down himself in stone. How many commandments? Right, TEN, not nine, or 8 or as many as you please. The first four to show your love for God, the latter six to show your love for man.

Does that mean those not keeping the Sabbath now and/or keep Sunday holy have received the mark of the beast? No. The mark is already there, but it is not forced upon people yet. If you read Revelation 17 again, you will notice that the sixth beast will be the one that will enforce it. Chips in your brain, arm or whatever or other technical devices will probably a tool that will help the image of the beast, and the beast itself, so that you cannot buy or sell if you refuse the mark of the beast.

Those who will receive the mark of the beast will get it either in their forehead (mind; those who want to worship the beast) or hand (acts of work: those who will worship the beast because they want to ‘buy or sell’ and make life easier). The ones sealed by God will get the seal only in their foreheads. They keep his commandments because they love Him, even when they are being persecuted, locked up or killed. It’s a matter of faith and love and therefore cannot be shown through works alone.


“BUT NOW HATH HE OBTAINED A MORE EXCELLENT MINISTRY, BY HOW MUCH ALSO HE IS THE MEDIATOR OF A BETTER COVENANT, WHICH WAS ESTABLISHED UPON BETTER PROMISES.

FOR IF THAT FIRST COVENANT HAD BEEN FAULTLESS, THEN SHOULD NO PLACE HAVE BEEN SOUGHT FOR THE SECOND.

FOR FINDING FAULT WITH THEM, HE SAITH, BEHOLD, THE DAYS COME, SAITH THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH:

NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; BECAUSE THEY CONTINUED NOT IN MY COVENANT, AND I REGARDED THEM NOT, SAITH THE LORD.

FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAITH THE LORD; I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MIND, AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS: AND I WILL BE TO THEM A GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE TO ME A PEOPLE:”

~HEBREWS 8:6-10



The new covenant shall be written in the MIND and on the heart. Instead of keeping the annual feasts or any of the other 600+ laws of the OT (works) God wants us just to keep his commandments because we love Him, no matter what happens. Jesus said he did not come to destroy the law (not lawS, but referring to God’s Law, the Decalogue) but he came to fulfill (Matthew 5:17). He came to earth and sacrificed himself to show us that it IS possible to keep all Ten Commandments, whatever happens. Yes, he healed on the Sabbath, but that was to show that if you see anyone in trouble, you should help, even when it’s on the Sabbath day. Do you think that if you see someone drowning on the Sabbath, that God wants you to do nothing? No, and to make sure everyone understands that you can help someone in need or danger on the Sabbath without sinning. Ambulance personnel should be able to rescue people also on the Sabbath, without being afraid they are sinning.

In Mathew 24, Jesus is asked by his disciples about the end of times. Therefore we know that what Jesus will say there, applies to the end, NOT the time Jesus and the disciples lived in. If the Sabbath was done away with when Jesus died, why would He even bother to say “But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day” (Matthew 24:20)? He is clearly talking about the end of times, as prophesied in Daniel and he even tells us to understand Daniel’s prophesy.


“WHEN YE THEREFORE SHALL SEE THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION, SPOKEN OF BY DANIEL THE PROPHET, STAND IN THE HOLY PLACE, (WHOSO READETH, LET HIM UNDERSTAND)”

~MATTHEW 24:15


Anyway, I could go on and on about this, but this is already way longer than I planned, so I will wrap this up. I hope I explained it in a way that is understandable for everyone, although I don’t expect the majority to agree.


“MANY SHALL BE PURIFIED, AND MADE WHITE, AND TRIED; BUT THE WICKED SHALL DO WICKEDLY: AND NONE OF THE WICKED SHALL UNDERSTAND; BUT THE WISE SHALL UNDERSTAND.”

~DANIEL 12:10



Did you know that ‘wicked’ means ‘lawless’? How can you be lawless if there is no law?

My understanding of Daniel and Revelation tells me Ron Wyatt’s Ark discovery is legit. The Ten Commandments are again the basis for the covenant between God and his people, but this time it’s written in the mind and heart (for those who understand) and salvation will not be by the works of people keeping the laws and statues of the OT, but by love for God and faith that if you keep his commandments, you may live. The old covenant was signed with the blood of a sacrificed animal; the new covenant was signed with the blood of the sacrificed lamb, Jesus Christ. It makes the most sense. Another thing is that Ron said he saw four angels that had been guarding the Ark since the time of Moses. Revelation 4:6 tells us that there are four ‘living creatures’ (KJV and some other versions translates it poorly into beasts, which is a little confusing) guarding the heavenly Ark. I can’t find any holes in his story.

The signs are there for everyone to see, the papacy did think they could change time (Saturday to Sunday) and law (Catholic Church has erased the term ‘seventh day’ from the commandments). On July 7, 2009 the pope “called for a radical rethinking of the global economy, criticizing a growing divide between rich and poor and urging the establishment of a “true world political authority” to oversee the economy and work for the ‘common good.’” (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login)

It’s happening right now, whether you like it or not. God created us all with a free will and individual mind, you are free to choose what to believe or who to follow, but there are consequences to every choice we make. Most will die, but do you want to stay dead forever, or do you want to live forever? It’s up to you. I only point out what’s obvious, I am not telling anyone what to do or what to believe.

To be or not to be… not a question, but a choice.
Last Edit: February 07, 2012, 09:02:08 AM by ~Souza~
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use_your_illusion

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Re: TIAI January 21
February 06, 2012, 12:56:54 AM
Man Souza that is long...haha.. (need to remind myself to read, when I have time).
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Do you give up yet?

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SEHF

Re: TIAI January 21
February 06, 2012, 01:48:09 AM
ty I work out
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Re: TIAI January 21
February 06, 2012, 04:31:45 AM
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We are talking in this topic about the Ark of the Covenant and the tablets of stone containing the commandments written with the finger of God that were placed inside the Ark.
The georgia guidestones also have a list of 10 commandments of the NWO's agenda. For comparison, this is their list.


Quote (selected)

THE MESSAGE OF THE GEORGIA GUIDESTONES
 
  1. Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature.
  2. Guide reproduction wisely - improving fitness and diversity.
  3. Unite humanity with a living new language.
  4. Rule passion - faith - tradition - and all things with tempered reason.
  5. Protect people and nations with fair laws and just courts.
  6. Let all nations rule internally resolving external disputes in a world court.
  7. Avoid petty laws and useless officials.
  8. Balance personal rights with social duties.
  9. Prize truth - beauty - love - seeking harmony with the infinite.
10. Be not a cancer on the earth - Leave room for nature - Leave room for nature.
 
Limiting the population of the earth to 500 million will require the extermination of nine-tenths of the world's people. The American Stonehenge's reference to establishing a world court foreshadows the current move to create an International Criminal Court and a world government. The Guidestones' emphasis on preserving nature anticipates the environmental movement of the 1990s, and the reference to "seeking harmony with the infinite" reflects the current effort to replace Judeo-Christian beliefs with a new spirituality.

I am once again totally speechless at the audacity and pride of man to raise his fist in defiance at the laws of the Living God.

I totally agree with you RK!

I agree that “looking at the man in the mirror” is very important and we must all strive to do this but the sad reality is that very few will choose to take this path. I’m not trying to be pessimistic. I’m simply stating the truth. Yes Michael has been spreading his message but of to no avail. He knows this very well. He would not have even bothered with this hoax if he felt otherwise. Most of the world has turned, and continues to turn, a blind eye to his message and instead, they focus on his rhythm and dance moves. I mean seriously… If people would heed his message like they devote themselves to everything else he has to offer, the world would have been changed a LONG time ago.

But the bottom line is that we ourselves, as humanity, can and will NEVER be able to achieve peace and harmony by our own power because we are tainted with sin. Only God can make all things perfect and new. We are scoffing at God and saying that we don’t need him when we say and believe that we ourselves are capable of achieving harmony with all men and nature. It just can’t be done. It has NEVER been done and it will NEVER be done without God’s divine intervention.

This current world and the way it is run, has to end in order for that to happen. There is NO other way. If we keep on like we are, we will most certainly enslave and ultimately destroy ourselves.

Michael does tell us that we have to ‘make that change’ but he also says >>

 ‘We gotta get it right while we got the time’

He knows that the clock is ticking. We do not have all of eternity to screw around (sorry for the vulgar term) and mess things up like we have been doing since the near beginning of our existence.
How can any of us possibly think that we have the solution when we, as the human race, are to blame for the sorry state of the world? Some will argue that it’s Satan’s fault but we are more to blame for allowing him to manipulate us. God gave us a free will after all.

Any peace that will come without God’s help will be a big lie. Anything that is made by the hands of man does not have God’s warrantee. In other words, it is not eternal and perfect.

Actually during the dark ages when the Roman Catholic Church ruled most of Europe with an iron fist, anyone who was caught keeping the true biblical Sabbath and not the ‘Sabbath’ mandated by the church was unable to buy or sell. This is an historical fact. They stood out like a sore thumb because they were marked by the Seal of God. The Sabbath is meant to be a sign between God and his people. The sign of obedience (forehead---frontal lobe) and the action of work (right hand symbolizes work)They were punished and if they did not comply with the law of the church, they were put to death in the most horrible of ways.  Now those who complied with the mandates of the church were spared and allowed to buy and sell and lead materially prosperous lives because they had the mark of the beast. >>>Obedience in observing the false Sabbath (forehead-frontal-lobe) and refraining from work on said ‘Sabbath’ (right hand symbolizing work)

As for The Keeping of all 10 commandments, we as followers of Christ (regardless of being Gentile or Jew) are obligated to keep them because they are God’s holy laws. Once we make up our mind to follow Christ, we are grafted in and become ‘adopted Jews’. The acts of keeping the commandments are not ‘deeds’ or ‘works’ at all. They are NOT ‘traditions of men’ because God was the one that instituted them. They are standards upon which we must live by. Sunday observance IS a ‘tradition of men’. Why is this even an issue? I mean we know that it’s wrong to break the rest of the commandments right? So what’s so difficult about this one? 

There is also no evidence in the bible that supports the idea that those who observe the Sabbath do not acknowledge that Jesus has come in the flesh to die for our sins. YES I know that the Jewish do not accept that Jesus has come yet and is the messiah but that’s just a percentage of those who do observe this day in accordance to God’s holy laws. SDA observe this day, RCG (Restored Church of God) and others observe this day as well. They all believe that Jesus came to earth to die for our sins. The Main reason that the Jewish people have not lost their identity is because they continue to follow that fundamental law.

You will be amazed to know how many of us actually come from Jewish lineage.

Here is a great book that talks about this. It’s very long but so worth the read. I have already read it myself. >>  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

 I am not saying that observing the true Sabbath is the path to salvation because it isn’t. It’s only part of it. It’s part of the ‘package’ so to speak. 

The Roman Catholic Church IS NOT God’s church! It’s an apostate church headed by Satan and his demons. Remember that a church is always described as a woman in the bible. Revelation 17 describes a harlot woman who is the mother of abominations on the earth. Read it carefully…It describes this false church very well.

I mean really…. Doesn’t just knowing that Sunday worship was instituted by the most filthy -hemorrhoid on the earths @$$ hole- of an institution ever to come into existence make you think twice about Sunday observance? Like seriously?!? Are people really that forgetful about what this dirty ‘system’ has done to humanity?! I feel dirty and filthy from all the years of Sunday observance. I feel like I need to de-tox myself. And yes I was an atheist but I was raised in a conservative Christian home.

But I do not believe that those who do not have knowledge will be punished for not keeping something they did not even know needed to be kept. However, I think that we will all come to the knowledge that it is indeed the real mark of the beast so there will be no excuse when all is said and done. Those of us who do know will have to deal with the consequences because we knew better and yet we chose to ‘compromise’ for the here and now. It’s just like taking the red pill….there is no turning back. We cannot unlearn what we already know to be proven as truth even if it goes against our ‘cherished ‘traditions of men'. HOWEVER, I believe that there are exceptions to this rule. If working on the Sabbath involves acts of selflessness, then that is reason enough to bend this rule IMHO because Jesus did this and we are to follow his example.

Now about that RFID chip….. I will NOT take it no matter what. I do not believe that it is the mark of the beast but like Andrea said …It can’t be good for any of us no matter what we are told or what we choose to believe. IMHO…all of those supposed 666 connections were placed there strategically on purpose so that we can be distracted from the real Mark of the Beast. The Jesuits have been controlling the USA since 1900. So take it from there. If you do not know what a Jesuit is by now…look it up yo.

Changing the Sabbath to Sunday worship is a testament to the authority of the Beast. The mark of the beast is NOT going to be solely a secular affair. It’s going to be religious in nature.  The Latin title given to the pope adds up to 666 in the Roman numeric system. Here is a great site that breaks this down >> You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Most naysayers will say that what I just said above is a ‘coincidence’ but I do not believe in coincidences and never will. Not after all of the stuff I’ve been though in this hoax. Say what you will but I will not change my opinion about the MOB unless overwhelming biblical evidence causes me to do so.

Ibelievinmj: Right on. I agree with you in that we must pray for God’s kingdom to come on earth as it is in heaven.

Paula-c: Thanks for that link! I’m definitely gonna check it out!...oh God..I’m so behind in my reading! I just reached my post that I posted on page 14. LOL

On a lighter note: You all are making such awesome posts! I want to respond to all of them but I’m soooo behind in my reading in this thread. LOL I really appreciate all of the insight and opinions being shared on here! It’s been such an amazing experience reading everyone’s input! <3
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GINAFELICIA

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Re: TIAI January 21
February 06, 2012, 04:55:07 AM
Wow Souza you did a lot of research for this.

I'll be back in a week, after I finish reading /understanding you post :shock:

I am curious if you did all this by yourself or you had some help.
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MJonmind

Re: TIAI January 21
February 06, 2012, 05:20:19 AM
Souza, I just finished reading your excellent post!

IMO, while the Catholic church appears to fit all the Biblical prophecy puzzle pieces pretty well, the Bible is layered, and can mean a few things at the same time. That's what makes it such a mystery, and has been interpreted in EXTREME detail by thousands over the years from various schools of theology.

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FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAITH THE LORD; I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MIND, AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS: AND I WILL BE TO THEM A GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE TO ME A PEOPLE:”
~HEBREWS 8:6-10
I mentioned this a while back that Jesus' message was to the Israelites, and Apostle Paul spoke to us, the Gentiles. So we have to read his words with that in mind.
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Also I believe that the Catholic church is part of something larger, a counterfeit stream running through history starting in Genesis. Included are Zionism, Royals of Europe, and more.  There has been a Satanic seed weaving its way through history.  There is a true blood-line from Abraham to the Israelites living at the time of and including Yahshuah (Jesus), which continues to today, but is barely recognized (not Jews).  Revelation clearly tells that the Great City is Jerusalem, not Vatican City, because it says it is "where our Lord was crucified". There are other verses that confirm this as well.  Also there are 7 hills (mountains) around Jerusalem as well  (again layers of truths and meaning).
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Whiteknight
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Actually during the dark ages when the Roman Catholic Church ruled most of Europe with an iron fist, anyone who was caught keeping the true biblical Sabbath and not the ‘Sabbath’ mandated by the church was unable to buy or sell. This is an historical fact. They stood out like a sore thumb because they were marked by the Seal of God. The Sabbath is meant to be a sign between God and his people. The sign of obedience (forehead---frontal lobe) and the action of work (right hand symbolizes work)They were punished and if they did not comply with the law of the church, they were put to death in the most horrible of ways.  Now those who complied with the mandates of the church were spared and allowed to buy and sell and lead materially prosperous lives because they had the mark of the beast.


>>>Obedience in observing the false Sabbath (forehead-frontal-lobe) and refraining from work on said ‘Sabbath’ (right hand symbolizing work)As for The Keeping of all 10 commandments, we as followers of Christ (regardless of being Gentile or Jew) are obligated to keep them because they are God’s holy laws. Once we make up our mind to follow Christ, we are grafted in and become ‘adopted Jews’. The acts of keeping the commandments are not ‘deeds’ or ‘works’ at all. They are NOT ‘traditions of men’ because God was the one that instituted them. They are standards upon which we must live by. Sunday observance IS a ‘tradition of men’. Why is this even an issue? I mean we know that it’s wrong to break the rest of the commandments right? So what’s so difficult about this one?


Interesting! Do you have any sources? It would mean that the MOB that TS says is coming, would be a repeat of that older law, so the church can regain her old power.  Also Christians may be grafted in with the Israelties (not Jews), but I believe there are specific roles in end times, which are for true Israelites only.  Just as we are seated with Christ on his throne and heirs to the throne, doesn't mean we are one and the same; it's somewhat symbolic.
Last Edit: February 06, 2012, 04:25:36 PM by MJonmind
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MJonmind

Re: TIAI January 21
February 06, 2012, 05:44:52 AM
Everlastinglove_MJ, thanks for the great 777 Sabbath study link!  I thought I would put it in this thread where the Sabbath is being discussed.

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You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login  An excerpt:
To us in A Voice In The Wilderness the triple sevens (777) numerically symbolize You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login, the Father of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login. He is the pinnacle of perfection, power and purity. The number 777 may also be the numeric value of some word or group of words: we do not know. Satan has hijacked this number and uses it in all kinds of bizarre ways; but as far as Scripture is concerned, seven is the number of perfection and holiness. To us in A Voice In The Wilderness the number 777 numerically expresses the Almighty's Truth as regards His7th day Sabbath, His 7 annual Sabbaths, His 7th year Sabbath and His 7th thousand year Sabbath - the millennium. We could go further and write 7777777 - ad infinitum, or 70 times 7, with each additional seven representing another perfect revelation of His character: but777 will do for the time being.


The key to unlocking the “sealed” prophecies concerning the mystery of the Second Coming is the perfect number of completion… 777.  The number 777 is as important to understanding the timing of the Second Coming as 666 is to identifying the False Messiah who fakes the second coming.  The number 777 identifies the true coming, where the number 666 identifies the fake.  It is that simple.

This writer has some really good research here, but he was off obviously, since 2007 has come and gone with no return of Jesus yet.  But the principles of 777 are still very sound for the real coming. IMO  He may have left out important things or put in the wrong things, which all would affect the accuracy of predicting the return year.
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Re: TIAI January 21
February 06, 2012, 05:45:58 AM
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Did anyone see Madonna's Half Time Show at the the Super Bowl??? !!!!

Anyone else note the  "coincidental" similarities with the current subject of this TIAI thread and Ark of the Covenant topic by The Sign on the other forum? At the beginning especially....

Wow.

[youtube] You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login [/youtube]

WORLD PEACE  /bravo/  !!!!!!!
OMG  :shock: :shock: :shock: thank you for this Adi  bearhug   !!!
OMG this is the second time Madonna made me cry  :'(  ,the first time was when she spoke about Michael in 2009 .


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2vVu9ZkxNw[/youtube]

Wonderful job,wow she is still good at 54  8-) ,as Prince was last year at the Forum  8-) .For people that don't know Michael,Prince and Madonna ,all 3 of them were born in the same year:1958.People can say what they want about Madonna but look at her,she's in her 50-ty with 30 years in the business,no drug/drink/nervous breakdown scandal..a woman with fierce determination and focus, a stage presesence that cannot be bought and for 30 years she has been critically mauled, slaughtered & yet still hold her head up high.
Madonna is right,yes MAN she is right,we must open our hearts, to give our LUV (LOVE) ,and stop  playing"that" stupid game ,once and for all maybe  :idea:  :mrgreen: .

Luv From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Luv or LUV may refer to:

    An intentional misspelling of love, sometimes used to show an affection that is more endearing than the word love shows.


The word LOVE was everywere,and so was letter M  :shock: .Coincidence or not the letter M was also in the Maroon 5 video:Move like Jagger  ;)) .People can say,ok you are looking for clues too much,and there are not ,but hey,why they wrote the letter M and not the whole word then  :shock:  ;)  :mrgreen: ????? Intresting,isn'it  :lol:  ;) ???
What I can say about this performance is that it's a MIX betewn what we wrote about Ark of Covenant, Cleopatra movie,Remember the time video,Immortal movie,This is it movie,Black Eyed Peas performance from last year and the last part (which "moved" me the most  ;) ) was like a copy of Sister act+ Joyful noise movies ,lol   lolol/  !!!!  penguin/  penguin/ penguin/
Last Edit: February 06, 2012, 05:51:16 AM by applehead250609
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Re: TIAI January 21
February 06, 2012, 07:11:20 AM
wow. what an overwhelming thread... and wow if i only had a dollar for every religious post in this thread... lol

and that was before i got to souza's post! anyway just a note to say that I am back.

souza thank you for posting your research, i have been looking forward to it since our last chat. i am up to date with every post in this thread except your post. i plan to read it tomorrow evening after i put my little one to bed.


thanks all for your contributions, altough this thread is intense i appreciate all of your work.


and SUZY7  - peace and love sister - I agree with your posts and not that you need it, but you have my full support!
 

Aussie

bearhug

P.S glad to be back all...
Last Edit: February 06, 2012, 07:13:20 AM by Australian MJ BeLIEver
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People laugh when I explain. And though they may laugh, that doesn't change the fact that it's still the truth.


Michael is Alive
The end of evil is nigh
Trust in God
The righteous will prevail

 

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