TIAI January 21

[Suzy7]

 According to the Bible: Christians are NOT breaking any of the commandments because they are not required to keep the Law of Moses---the Old Covenant. SOME religious organizations hold that the Mosaic Law was in 2 parts: the Decalogue, or the "moral law", and the "ceremonial law". They claim that the Decalogue is still binding, whereas the "ceremonial law" passed away with the Messiah's coming; Jesus. This is why Christians do not keep the Sabbath. They believe in the New Covenant of Jesus whom nullified the law, whilst Jews still keep the Law of Moses because they don't even believe that Jesus was the Messiah. In fact, it is recorded in the Bible that they accused him of blasphemy and even sorcery!--see John 9:14 and on. Jews do not believe he fulfilled the Messianic prophecies, therefore, since they are still waiting for the Messiah they keep the Mosaic Law.

 Jesus himself, contradicts the belief that we must keep the Sabbath and the whole of the law when he states it's laws are no longer applicable--hence why Jews do not believe he is the Messiah. In fact, again John 9:14 tells us that Jesus made a paste in  violation of Sabbath, which caused the Pharisees to say in verse 16: "He does not observe Shabbat!" Jesus didn't even keep the Sabbath! But why, if it is apparently the "Mark of the Beast" for those who don't? Perhaps because Jesus was sent by God to fulfill the Law as he stated at Matthew 5:17-18: "Do not think I came to distroy the Law or the Prophets. I came, not to distroy, but to fulfill; for truly I say to you that sooner would heaven and earth pass away than for one smallest letter or one particle of a letter to pass away from the Law by any means and not all things take place." Jesus thereby showed that the law consisted of prophecies which were certain of fulfillment, so when he came the law was done.

 We are no longer bound by the written law (Ro 7:6) because Jesus died for our sins. Our sins are now able to be forgiven, because our only law given by Jesus is the law of love.

[Suzy7]

 Taking my previous post into consideration, there are MANY Bible verses which state we are now under the new law--the New Covenant. By keeping the Old Covenant, we are denying Jesus and his sole purpose for living and dying for us. The old law did not allow for our sins to be forgiven; rather, it only gave us certain punishment and ultimate death for these sins. Under the New Covenant, we are given hope and forgiveness.

 The removal of the Decalogue need arouse no fears or apprehensions. At best it was but a negative approach to righteousness. The law of the Christians is a positive one: Love God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength and love your neighbor as yourself. Do to others as you would have them do to you. It's all for L.O.V.E. So do not have fear that you are not "righteous enough" or "on the side with the devil"--as long as your heart is loving and kind, that is what matters to God. This is the only commandment Jesus gave.

 As for the Ron story--- take it with a grain of salt. Btw, I think BeTheChange, Heartsong and others have raised great points and questions. But even IF it was the real Ark of the Covenant, it is irrelevant to us and more importantly God himself. The only Ark of His Covenant that matters at the "EOW", is Jesus. Jesus metaphorically "signed" the *New Covenant* with his blood indeed, not the old, when he died at the stake. To elaborate: Jesus' disciple Paul says, in regards to the end of the Mosaic Law at Eph 2:13-16: "But now in union with Christ Jesus you who were once far off have come to be near by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, he who made the two parties one and destroyed the wall in between that fenced them off. By means of his flesh he abolished the hatred, THE LAW of COMMANDMENTS consisting in decrees, that he might create two peoples in union with himself into one new man and make peace, and that he might fully reconcile both peoples in one body to God through the torture stake, because he had killed off the hatred by means of himself."

[diggyon]

I had some trouble with uploading the pics, I hope you can all the visualize 4 pics.
You can find more info on this link , regarding Michael (our Michael!) and the Rainbow!
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Other RAINBOW - connections.........

Michael Jackson Hoax Death-Old man,Yellow Brick Road,Hollywood
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2011 Oscars - Live Performance - Somewhere Over The Rainbow - 83rd Academy Award
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46VrfroexW8[/youtube]


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELaILNtgIGk[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lIBLz0ikYU[/youtube]

Wow, great songs, Sim...I just love them     /bravo/

[jono]

According to the Bible: Christians are NOT breaking any of the commandments because they are not required to keep the Law of Moses---the Old Covenant. SOME religious organizations hold that the Mosaic Law was in 2 parts: the Decalogue, or the "moral law", and the "ceremonial law". They claim that the Decalogue is still binding, whereas the "ceremonial law" passed away with the Messiah's coming; Jesus. This is why Christians do not keep the Sabbath. They believe in the New Covenant of Jesus whom nullified the law, whilst Jews still keep the Law of Moses because they don't even believe that Jesus was the Messiah. In fact, it is recorded in the Bible that they accused him of blasphemy and even sorcery!--see John 9:14 and on. Jews do not believe he fulfilled the Messianic prophecies, therefore, since they are still waiting for the Messiah they keep the Mosaic Law.

 Jesus himself, contradicts the belief that we must keep the Sabbath and the whole of the law when he states it's laws are no longer applicable--hence why Jews do not believe he is the Messiah. In fact, again John 9:14 tells us that Jesus made a paste in  violation of Sabbath, which caused the Pharisees to say in verse 16: "He does not observe Shabbat!" Jesus didn't even keep the Sabbath! But why, if it is apparently the "Mark of the Beast" for those who don't? Perhaps because Jesus was sent by God to fulfill the Law as he stated at Matthew 5:17-18: "Do not think I came to distroy the Law or the Prophets. I came, not to distroy, but to fulfill; for truly I say to you that sooner would heaven and earth pass away than for one smallest letter or one particle of a letter to pass away from the Law by any means and not all things take place." Jesus thereby showed that the law consisted of prophecies which were certain of fulfillment, so when he came the law was done.

 We are no longer bound by the written law (Ro 7:6) because Jesus died for our sins. Our sins are now able to be forgiven, because our only law given by Jesus is the law of love.

Here I want to add:

“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself. All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” - Matthew 22:36-40

"Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin." - Romans 3:19-20

Romans is an excellent book talking about this rather complex subject.

I also want to add that Jesus did not break the law. What he did break was the additional rules that the Pharisees and religious people had added to the law.

[MJonmind]

jono, you beat me to it! :lol:


Suzy7,  you certainly hit the nail on the head with the huge conundrum and difficulty, of law versus grace.  How far exactly does each extend?  There are so many verses that seem to blur the dividing lines, and make it not simple but complex.  IMO, I don’t think Jesus was disobeying the Sabbath at all, but only going against the many added rules that the religious leaders over time had added to the existing ones.  Jesus called them, “traditions of men.” 


And if you go only with Paul, then all Christian women should have their hair long and their heads covered errrr . Slaves should obey their masters. Paul clearly taught (less directly) to obey the 10 commandments in his teaching, but not the Levitical laws, and he kept them himself.

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I just thought I’d mention one aspect that makes it so difficult.  We Gentiles assume the whole Bible is directed to us, but we are actually peering over the shoulders  of the intended readers, the Israelites.   The 66 books  were not directed to us, except for those that actually say so.  Jesus was sent to the House of Israel (he wasn't speaking to us but them); and Paul was sent to the Gentiles (us).  We have to understand that, when we personalize the messages we read.

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Here the Bible books are divided into categories that help our understanding.  (Ernest Martin was simply one of the best Bible scholars I have encountered, and I spent literally months reading his extensive studies.  He did years of extensive archeology in Israel,  taught Astronomy/and more as a professor.)

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This is his book, Restoring the Original Bible.

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This is the diagram of the 66 books arranged according to the above book. Lots of lovely 7's!
 
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[melody]

@ Suzy7: Some would argue that Jesus kept the spirit of the law, as opposed to the letter of the law, so his believers should follow his lead—which would include observing the seventh day of the week as the blessed and holy day of rest (Gen 2:3), the day in which to go to the temple like Jesus did (Luke 4:16), learn/teach about the gospel  or in other words tend to the flock (Mark 6:2, Luke 13:10, Acts 14:32), have mercy on the bodies of others and not make them labor for you (Exodus 20:8-11), let people spiritually rejuvenate themselves that day and not keep them bound to the mundane. 

The weekly day of rest (like all of the other moedims/appointed times) help believers keep certain things in mind, namely YHWH's "plan" for humanity and what he intended/intends to do with the Messiah. 

Sabbath:   A Memorial of Creation (Gen 2:1-3; Exod 20:8-11); Memorial of Redemption (Deut 5:12-15); Kept properly brings blessing (Isa 56:2; Isa 58:13-14); Sign of identity as God's people, as well as identity of God (Exod 31:13,17); Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28); The Sabbath foreshadows Resurrection & Millennial Rest (Hebrews 4).

Passover:   After being set aside on the 10th day and examined by the religious leaders, the spotless lamb was sacrificed on 14th day of the first month of the year to redeem the first-born of Israel providing deliverance from certain death (Ex 12).  Those houses that bore the blood of the lamb were passed over by the death angel (Ex 12:23).

     Joshua led the people into the Land in Joshua 4:19 on the 10th of the month (day of setting aside of the Lamb) and circumcised the children of Israel (Josh 5);  Moses, representing the law, could not lead the people into the promised land, but Joshua ("Joshua" means "Yehovah saves" and is the Hebrew form of  the name "Jesus") the son of Nun ("Nun" means "eternal") led them in. This antetype shows that the law couldn't save us (lead us into the promised land) but Jesus, the Son of the Eternal, can and He circumcises our hearts and leads us in.

      Compare the other types: Christ, the sinless Lamb of God (John 1:29,36), was sacrificed for our sins on 14th of the month (Passover) (I Cor 5:7).  He is the First-born of many brothers (Rom. 8:29), provides deliverance from "the second death" for the first born of the church (Rev 20:6) who bear have the blood of Christ covering them (I Cor 10:16; I Pet 1:18,19; Rev 1:5);   Jesus also was examined by the religious leaders and was found without blemish (Luke 23:14,15, 22). Passover is an antetype of the Day of Atonement where only the "firstborn" (first resurrection) are atoned for at this time.

Feast of Unleavened Bread:   Israel's exodus from bondage of Egypt; they had to sanctify the firstborn and all had to put out all leaven and eat unleavened bread (Ex 13:1-10); came to a point later where they had to be 'baptized' under the waters of the Red Sea (Ex 14; I Cor 10:1,2), then continue in the leaving behind of the lifestyles they had in Egypt. We notice and compare that Jesus is the "Bread of Life" (John 6:35, 48, 51) without sin (leaven). Jesus was born in Bethlehem, which in Hebrew, means house of bread. The believers in Christ that take the Passover should then be unleavened (Matt 26:17, I Cor 5:7-8). The Gospels and Epistles also admonish us numerous times to sin no more and to be perfect.

[...]

Feast of First Fruits or Pentecost:  Fifty days after the Elevation (Wave) Sheaf, two loaves of leavened bread were elevated (Lev 23:17), two lambs were offered as peace offering (Lev 23:19-20). A trumpet sounds to call the people to go up to be with the Lord (Ex 19). Moses was on Mt. Sinai receiving the Law at this time period. (Ex 19,20). This day also was a reminder that we were slaves to Egypt (Deut. 16:9-17). Compare and contrast these antetypes to their New Testament counterparts: Fifty days after Jesus arose, His disciples received the gift of the Holy Spirit. Jesus said in John 16:7-8 "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away (Wavesheaf) : for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart (Wavesheaf), I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment."; God wrote the law (Torah) on the hearts of the believers.(1 Cor 3:3); the Holy Spirit is given to help us keep the (spirit of the) law (Acts 2, Rom 7,8);  two witnesses are elevated (Rev 11:3-4,11-12, I Thess 4:13-17); a trumpet sounds then our transformation into Spirit beings occurs and we go up to be with the Lord.(I Cor 15:52,53; I Thess 4:16-17) (some say this occurs rather on Day of Trumpets), antetype of the Marriage Supper (Ex 24) Compare to the Marriage of the Lamb (Rev 19:7-9)

Day of Trumpets:  The first day of the seventh biblical month. The Shofar (Ram's horn called Trumpet) is blown to proclaim a gathering for worship, to herald the arrival of the King, but is used also to warn/signal of war. (Num 10; Jer 4) The book of the Law was read to all the people (Neh 8'); Their repentant tears were turned to joy. (Neh 8:9-12); Some believe this to be the possible date of the Creation of world, historically the beginning of the Jewish Civil year, return of Christ as King to the earth to make war and judge, End of war & regathering of Israel (Is 2; Mic 4). Jesus will be King of kings upon all the earth (Rev 19:11-16).

Day of Atonement: Translated from Yom Kippur or Yom Kaphar, The tenth day of the seventh biblical month by the Jews. High Priest entered Holy of Holies only once in the year to offer atonement (Ex 30:10);  the High Priest performed ceremonial washings;  Two goats chosen, one to be sacrificed for transgressions of all the people/national sins and one, the Azazel, to have the sins confessed over it and have it carry the sins away from the people/nation. (Lev 16; Ps 103:12); this was for reconciliation to God; Start of Jubilee Year began on every 50th Atonement (Lev 25);  Jesus, our High Priest, offered as our atonement only once (Hebrews 9, 10; Romans 5:10,11) and removed our sin from us. Psalms 103:12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.;  The binding of Satan is thought by many to occur on this day (Rev 20:2);  Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,;   

Feast of Booths/Tabernacles:  Tabernacles means "temporary or "perishable" dwelling. Beginning the 15th Day of the seventh month and lasting seven days. Israel sojourning/living in tents/temporary dwellings in the wilderness 40 years prior to entering the Promised Land. (Leviticus 23:33-44; Neh 8; Zechariah 14:16-19 & Zechariah 14:1-4, 9) Compare to us living in these temporary fleshly tabernacles (2 Cor 5:1-4; 2 Pet 1:13) until we put them off (2 Pet 1:14) and enter the Promised Land in our new incorruptible spirit bodies.

The Eighth Day: New beginnings. Depicts (similarly to the weekly Sabbath) the Millenium Reign of the Messiah on earth, yet this day's picture continues on through the Second Resurrection, Great White Throne Judgement (Rev 20:11-15), New Heavens and New Earth (Isa 65:17; 66:22; 2Pet 3:13, Rev 21:1), even forever; Some see the spirit pouring out as water on this day and some a day previous (John 7:37-38).
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I think this is where the misconception lies: when people are born-again spiritually, they become a new creature (2 Corinthians 5:17), they're made righteous and holy by Yeshua (1 Corinthians 1:30, 2 Corinthians 5:21), they naturally love what is righteous now that they are, so they tend to gravitate towards the law because it is righteousness, not necessarily "to become" righteous because Yeshua has already made them righteous. To say it another way, Yeshua made them righteous and then they fell in love with the law, lol.


@MJonmind: ah, you posted before me I was going to add that; needless to say, I concur  :

[melody]

I was thinking about covenants in the bible; so, we've got:

• Abraham as the leader and Melchizedek an immortal priest
• Moses as the leader and Aaron as a mortal priest
• Yeshua/Jesus as the leader and immortal priest.

Hebrews 3 says Yeshua replaces Moses; Hebrews 7 says Yeshua replaces Aaron (in the same order of Melchizedek).


It goes from faith covenant—law covenant—back to faith covenant. That's probably why it says that if you walk in the spirit, you are not under the law (Galatians 5:18). It would seem as if YHWH gave the Israelites (that had been in Egypt for 400 years) the torah at Mt. Sinai after their Exodus from Rameses (Numbers 33:3-4, Exodus 24) because as a whole they knew absolutely nothing and had to start off with baby steps, as a people they needed to be taught all over again how to walk in the spirit, then things got Pharisaical, Yeshua incarnates, matures, teaches the people the spirit of the law which is how things were with Abraham (I'm guessing because there's never an explicit indication that he kept the weekly "Sabbath" or was given a written form of a law, that I'm aware of at least). That must mean he walked in the Spirit, so he must have naturally been merciful with his workers, allowing them to rest; ergo, no need for Abraham to be given (nor be held subject to) a written law.

In that case, there really isn't a contradiction: the law is needed for those who are oblivious; once they become aware, they are expected to start walking in the spirit of those instructions. From spiritual milk to spiritual meat (heb 5:12), baby believers to mature believers (1 Peter 2:2, 1 Cor 3:1-2, Heb 6:1). Hmm, now that has me wondering, there must be this same type of correlation within the hoax itself. What was our spiritual milk?

[~Souza~]

I have done an intense study about the Sabbath and I disagree. If Christians don't have to keep the 10 commandments then appaently it's ok to steal, lie, worship false idols etc. But it's not, because everyone will say that we still have to keep 9 commandments, just not the fourth. Why? The answer then is that not worshipping idols falls under love for God and the others under love for your neighbour. How do we know that in the first place? Because they are part of the TEN commandments. So is the Sabbath day, and it falls under love for God. The Sabbath already exsisted way before the new old covenant and it exsisted after the new covenant. Even Paul, the one many quote to try and get rid of the Sabbath, kept the Sabbath himself after Jesus' death. Jesus himself said that NONE of the commandments should be done away with:

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." ~Matthew 5:17-19

He is not talking about the 600+ Torah laws, he is talking about the TEN commadments. Heaven and earth are still here. There is a difference between the annual sabbaths and God's holy Sabbath. The annual sabbaths don't have to be kept anymore, they were part of the feasts for the JEWS, the Sabbath day was made for MAN. Jesus even said the following:

"But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."
~Matthew 24:20-21

The context here is Jesus telling the disciples about what will happen at the end of days, way after Jesus' death. If Jesus knew that he would abolish the ten commandments after his death (only a little after he said this) then WHY would he say that you should pray it's not in winter OR THE sabbath day?

The fourth commandment is the only commandment that begins with "remember". Apparently God foresaw that people would either forget about it or dismiss it. He says it's a sign between Him and his people forever.

There is much more I could say about the Sabbath NOT being done away with, but I will leave it atthis for now. And Ron's story has scriptrural support, more then any other story where Jesus blood is wasted or where we hear a lot of mumbo jumbo just to ge rid of only one of the commandments. And if the mercy seat is signed with Jesus blood, which seems very likely to me, then the same document was signed in blood as with te old covenant: The 10 commandments, written by God himself.

I am not telling anyone what they should do, I am just pointing out one of the biggest misunderstandings of scripture.

[~Souza~]

I have done an intense study about the Sabbath and I disagree. If Christians don't have to keep the 10 commandments then appaently it's ok to steal, lie, worship false idols etc. But it's not, because everyone will say that we still have to keep 9 commandments, just not the fourth. Why? The answer then is that not worshipping idols falls under love for God and the others under love for your neighbour. How do we know that in the first place? Because they are part of the TEN commandments. So is the Sabbath day, and it falls under love for God. The Sabbath already exsisted way before the new old covenant and it exsisted after the new covenant. Even Paul, the one many quote to try and get rid of the Sabbath, kept the Sabbath himself after Jesus' death. Jesus himself said that NONE of the commandments should be done away with:

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." ~Matthew 5:17-19

He is not talking about the 600+ Torah laws, he is talking about the TEN commadments. Heaven and earth are still here. There is a difference between the annual sabbaths and God's holy Sabbath. The annual sabbaths don't have to be kept anymore, they were part of the feasts for the JEWS, the Sabbath day was made for MAN. Jesus even said the following:

"But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."
~Matthew 24:20-21

The context here is Jesus telling the disciples about what will happen at the end of days, way after Jesus' death. If Jesus knew that he would abolish the ten commandments after his death (only a little after he said this) then WHY would he say that you should pray it's not in winter OR THE sabbath day?

The fourth commandment is the only commandment that begins with "remember". Apparently God foresaw that people would either forget about it or dismiss it. He says it's a sign between Him and his people forever.

There is much more I could say about the Sabbath NOT being done away with, but I will leave it atthis for now. And Ron's story has scriptrural support, more then any other story where Jesus blood is wasted or where we hear a lot of mumbo jumbo just to ge rid of only one of the commandments. And if the mercy seat is signed with Jesus blood, which seems very likely to me, then the same document was signed in blood as with te old covenant: The 10 commandments, written by God himself.

I am not telling anyone what they should do, I am just pointing out one of the biggest misunderstandings of scripture.

[melody]

To clarify, I do not think the 10 commandments are done away with. I do agree with you Souza. When I said "torah", I meant the ten commandments; I should have simply said instructions to avoid any misunderstanding, my mistake

[wishingstar]

[...]Wishingstar, you and BeTheChange's posts are just so poignant and heart-stirring. [...]

+1

I also adore your posts, MjonMind, Grace, Sarahli
 bearhug

Wow......I leave for a few days, and miss all this amazing talk.  This entire thread has become so interesting and full of notions and thoughts that far exceed anything I could have imagined.  However, I do want to say a big thank you for these sweet words and echo what Sim said about these guys as well....you're amazing.  I am sure I am missing a lot and probably need to back up more, lol.  But this caught my eye and I just wanted to send some hugs:

 bearhug x 7

Love you all.......I am so blessed by you, thank you!

Blessings Always

[bindupbrokenhearted]

I know people are going to disagree with me here, but that's okay:

Colossians 2:16

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Therefore, as Christians we are not to judge others based on Sabbath keeping according to Paul.

John MacArthur has a good study on this:

But there are three other things that Paul attacks in the heresy of the Essenes that had infiltrated Colossae. The next one is legalism. They not only had said to these Colossian Christians "you are not going to cut it because you don't know human philosophy. There are things that you haven't yet learned." But they said secondly, "You must commit yourself to the religion of human achievement. It is Christ plus works, righteousness." Notice verse 16, and here is Paul's answer to this kind of intimidation, and here the rather Jewish aspect of the Colossian heresy stands out. "Let no man Therefore judge you in," literally, "eating or drinking or in respect to the festival," or feast day, "or of the new moon or of the Sabbath day."

Now stop there. Paul says to these Colossians Christians "look, these people are trying to intimidate you with legalism. They are trying to judge you on what you eat, what you drink, whether or not you attend Passover, Pentecost, Feast of Tabernacles, Feast of Lights. Whether you make you sacrifice on the first day of the month, which is new moon, and whether you prescribe to all the laws and rules and rituals of the Sabbath day." They are saying, it isn't enough to know Christ, you have to know Christ and keep the Jewish law, and I would add there was even some Greek stuff mixed into this. There was even some pagan ritual no doubt mixed into it, so that it became very confusing. But the whole point here is, salvation and spirituality is based on Christ plus keeping certain rituals, legalism.

Now legalism is simply subscribing your spirituality to man‑made rules. That's legalism. Defining your spirituality by your ability to keep man‑made rules. Obeying God's rules is obedience, not legalism. But subscribing and defining your spirituality by your submission to man‑made rules is legalism, or to those rules which God has made and set aside in this age, and they become therefore man‑made for now.

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It is similar to eating of pork too.  If we were to keep the whole law then that would be forbidden, but as Christ told Peter: Acts 10:13-15 things that were unclean are now made clean through Christ.  We are saved through Christ's righteousness not our own works.

I just know I am saved by FAITH, not works.  Would I love to keep the Saturday Sabbath and not work?  Absolutely.  But honestly, I can't for my job (which is where God Himself put me).  But...I am saved by FAITH not works.  So I won't be condemned for it.  Would God love for me to keep the Sabbath: absolutely.  But He knows I live in a WICKED world and getting my work done for HIM is more important right now.  Also, I need to do it all in love for humankind and love for God which go hand in hand.

Also, I am not saying that people should break the commandments: lie, steal, cheat.  That is breaking the second most important commandment according to Jesus, which are to 2. love humans as yourself (or more than yourself).  The first one being 1. to love God.  See Matthew 22: 37-39

Now, I don't judge anyone based on not keeping the Sabbath because Christ is their judge, not me.  The bottom line is this: we are saved through our Savior Jesus Christ as He is the only One who fulfilled the Law and thus died as a Sacrifice for us.

Also, the mark of the beast, as Revelation 13 is described as a "mark in the right hand or in the forehead' in the KJV.  Revelation 13:16-18.  Also, it is intimately involved with financial matters.  (Revelation 13:17).  Many Christians, including myself, think this MoB having to do with some sort of electronic mind control (truth is stranger and more disturbing than fiction for sure) as well as a tracking and financial device (maybe a microchip???).  I don't understand how keeping the Saturday Sabbath can even remotely be involved with finances? 

Anyways, I know people will disagree with me here, and that's okay.  We should continue to discuss this in LOVE.   bearhug

[bindupbrokenhearted]

@ Bindupbrokenheart: Your posts were excellent.   /bravo/
Ron Wyatt is very controversial among the mainstream of Christianity.  There's some good and some bad so everyone please take him with a grain of salt, and don't be deceived.
I posted this earlier on the other site so will copy it here:

Just wanted to check in and let you know TS I saw the redirect.    :

My father passed away 1-16-2012 so I have been busy elsewhere making arrangements and will get back to studying & re-reading your post later. Right now I have a lot to handle. 
I love you TS; you know that.  That will never change, but I think you already know on this we will just need to agree to disagree on the Michael the Archangel / Jesus thing.  I understand where you are coming from, and why you would believe that with the whole Angel of the Lord thing which confuses a lot of people, but I believe as does most mainstream Christianity that the Bible supports & identifies them as two separate entities. 

I wish you well and will be back later.   

Love to all 

 bearhug

PS:
I Just watched this today after my original post. I think it's relevant... WOW.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eucVQtdvQQ[/youtube]

bearhug

MsTrinity, I am praying for you.  I am sorry about your father's passing.  May God keep you and bless you during this time.






To everyone: I have some serious personal things (not directly related to the forum) going on so I might not be on the forums much.  I apologize if I was previously on edge (I didn't realize how these things were affecting me) and I apologize to anyone if anyone was hurt (I don't mean to hurt anyone).  But...God is so Good...No matter how I was acting, God may have offered a breakthrough for something I have been praying for for a long, looong time, so pray for me and those God knows are involved with this.

Yeah, Jesus!  Luke 4:18

God bless you all here: Numbers 6:24

The Lord bless you, and keep you;
The Lord make His face shine on you,
And be gracious to you;
The Lord lift up His countenance upon you,
And give you peace

Sorry if this is off topic, back to topic.  I absolutely agree with MsTrinity about the Archangel Michael not being Jesus and about how to take info on the AoC. 

I do love you all; hopefully I will be back soon.

[jono]

@bindupbrokenhearted

Excellent post! Exactly my thoughts on basically everything you wrote..

I also want to add this when it comes to the commandments (Matthew 5:18-48):

For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
 
Murder

“You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment. But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca, is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell. “Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother or sister has something against you, leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them; then come and offer your gift. “Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still together on the way, or your adversary may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison. Truly I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.

Adultery

“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery. But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

Divorce
   
“It has been said, ‘Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce. But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Oaths

“Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘Do not break your oath, but fulfill to the Lord the vows you have made. But I tell you, do not swear an oath at all: either by heaven, for it is God’s throne; or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. All you need to say is simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.

Eye for Eye

“You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth. But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

Love for Enemies

“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy. But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

This helps us to understand the salvation can only come through faith (not works) and that it is really Gods GRACE and His grace alone that saves us... NO ONE can be as perfect as God, this is only possible through faith in Jesus because that puts us in Christ (Romans 6:23, 8:1, Galatians 3:26 etc, etc).

[RK]

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This is a link to a message by Chuck Missler titled The 7th Day. It is very detailed and thorough  It is also a couple of hours long.
He says that anyone who thinks this is a simple argument hasn't really studied it. The idea of the sabbath was established in Eden when God rested from His work. It predates the Mosiac law, as in it God says to" remember" the sabbath and to keep it holy. In Jesus' day keeping the sabbath  had become largely external and formal. Jesus shows in Mark 2: 23-27 the true concept of what the sabbath was instituted for. It was made for man.
I was  surprised to here Chuck say that he and his wife observe from Friday eve to Saturday evening as a time they decided to set apart. A decision they both came to after digging through the word of God.
He promises that there will be something in this to offend both sides of the debate.