TIAI January 21

[RK]

AND HE SHALL SPEAK GREAT WORDS AGAINST THE MOST HIGH, AND SHALL WEAR OUT THE SAINTS OF THE MOST HIGH, AND THINK TO CHANGE TIMES AND LAWS: AND THEY SHALL BE GIVEN INTO HIS HAND UNTIL A TIME AND TIMES AND THE DIVIDING OF TIME.

Speaking of changing times and laws....papal calendar ring any bells?
Great [and very long and detailed ] post Souza. I am convinced that there is emphasis happening, through Divine time and design, bringing about restoration and establishing those who move forward into present truth.  The danger for us lies in letting a sense of spiritual pride that we have the  truth settle into our thinking, thereby making us sit back and dismiss things as not applicable to us.
Among many things being addressed  and returned to by those embracing present truth,  are returning to the hebrew  names for  Yahuwah  and Yahushua and the return to the biblical emphasis of the 7th day sabbath as opposed to the vatican instated sunday.  This restoration is also calling many believers out of organized religious systems, all inclusive, and a return to true scriptural paths and guidelines. There are many sites on the net devoted to this restoration. Here is a link to a good one for any who are interested in further study.
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@Imconvinced...I'm going to post those two videos in the memorial revision thread as they are biblically applicable to the memorial. Thanks for reminding me of them
@Andrea....Canada and Mexico are to be combined with the US in their redistribution of former countries by the NWO. I'm sure you know this, but that is very close to home for you people.

[curls]

The danger for us lies in letting a sense of spiritual pride that we have the  truth settle into our thinking, thereby making us sit back and dismiss things as not applicable to us. 

'Spiritual pride' - an interesting phrase that accurately describes what I observe in many 'religious' people who, as mere humans, think they can, and have, solved the most 'super-human' mysteries of the universe.

[Suzy7]

  Im_convinced, it very much matters who you addressed that post to. You stated that "you didn't know where I got my information from when I responded to you." Well, of course what I was responding to wouldn't be found in the post you addressed to someone else, but rather the one you addressed to me. That makes a difference. My posts were in response to your post below:

Im_convinced, I'm sorry I didn't respond earlier, I didn't see your post until now. I'll try and add some more info to make this even clearer, although I think I've said quite a bit. No, I do not think not keeping the Sabbath is taking the Mark of the Beast at all; in fact almost the contrary. Christians are not required to keep the Sabbath according to the Bible. And whether or not it is the "Mark of the Beast" (I'll use abbreviation MOB) depends upon what you believe, simply because Jews keep the Sabbath and therefore it would be MOB, whereas Christians do not and therefore, it would not be the MOB. Also, I doubt atheists think anything is the MOB given they don't even believe in God. I think people should be cautious before accepting that a law like this will even be passed, much less tolerated. Until we see proof this will come into fruition, paranoia is unnecessary and unhelpful.

Yes we are living according to the Roman calendar, and thus Sunday is our day of "rest". This did originate from Pagan worship of the Sun, but since we are not required to keep Sabbath any day, especially Sunday, than no Christian is taking the MOB. You stated that the saints will be saved for they will not receive the mark if they have faith and follow God's commandments. Well, isn't that what I've been saying? We are to have faith and follow God's commandments of LOVE, see Jono's posts. This does not require keeping Sabbath, as that law was fulfilled and done away with. Jesus referred to the Jews as the "synagogue of Satan" for a reason; they chose to deny him and even killed him in order to stay bound by the Old Covenant. So although the fourth commandment commands the observing of the 7th day as a sabbath rest, it must be kept in mind that the Ten Commandments were part of the law given to the nation of Israel at Mount Sinai. This law covenant was a sign of *their* relationship with God in order to commemorate their deliverance, not to us. (Deut. 5:15; Ex. 31:16)

Suzy7- I really think you don't grasp the concept of what the mark of the beast law aka sunday law is. This has nothing to do with whether or not someone is a Christian or Jew. It does not matter if someone believes in God or not. This has to do with Revelation 13 and below is the scripture pointing out what the mark of the beast means for EVERYONE. This is not about Jews keeping the Sabbath and therefore they receive the mark of the beast because they are. This has nothing to do with Christians and them not keeping the Sabbath and therefore they don't receive the mark of the beast. The Sabbath is technically supposed to be kept on Saturday and when the mark of the beast law is enforced people will be forced to keep the Sabbath on the wrong day, Sunday. Now if we refuse to go along with the law and refuse to go to church on sunday then we will not receive the mark of the beast. If someone goes along with it because they will not be able to buy or sell, etc. then they will be taking the mark of the beast.
I never once said that the mark of the beast makes a distinction between Jews or Christians. I am neither of those because those are titles that have to do with religious names. I never said anything about saints. The info I copied and pasted said that and also the Bible says so.

One other thing about this mark of the beast law, it is not related to Jesus' sacrifice on the cross for us in the way you are connecting it. Yes I know that Jesus died for our sins. Through his blood we are given grace from God and offered salvation. I do know about salvation and it doesn't depend on works to receive it. The subject of that is seperate from what I am pointing out. I have said before this information I am providing is for the sole purpose of it being evidence and after that it is up to the people to study it or not. I have said my last comment on this subject just now and I respect your choice in how to believe so please respect my choice. I am not even saying that anyone should or should not keep the Sabbath. I don't but I know I should because the Bible has God's word saying so.

I do not just think this way independantly from not studying and not reading scriptures in the Bible. I have formed my understanding of this issue from study of the Bible in regards to revelations and I have read other info and watched youtube videos. This is not just my opinion. This information is not to make people scared or paranoid but to give them an opportunity to know what is ahead in the near future. The evidence is there for all to see and the proof will be in prophesies fulfilled.

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15 The second beast was allowed to give breath to the statue so it could speak. He was allowed to kill all who refused to worship the statue. 16 He also forced everyone to receive a mark on the right hand or on the forehead. People great or small, rich or poor, free or slave had to receive the mark. 17 They could not buy or sell anything unless they had the mark. The mark is the name of the beast or the number of his name. 18 Here is a problem that you have to be wise to figure out. If you can, figure out what the beast's number means. It is man's number. His number is 666.

The National Sunday Law if it goes into effect would be a law that would force everyone even athiest into going to church and worshipping on sunday the day for satan. There will be punishments for not going along with the law, for example the fact that we wouldn't be able to buy or sell, wouldn't be able to buy food, clothes, medicine, etc. So basically if I stand my ground and refuse to obey the law I will face punishments. The Sunday law would force people to bow down to satan. Therefore if people follow the law they will be worshipping satan and receive the mark of the beast.

^^My comment from my last post. I also would like to point out that the subject of the ark of the covenant was in TS' post and that does have to do with the Ten Commandments.

 Im_convincedmjalive:

The above websites could help you and anyone else struggling with this part of the end of the world revelations.

  I am not "struggling" to understand the EOW, just your contradictions. Also, my question to you was rhetorical; I know you believe in God and the Bible, that is why you care whether or not you receive the "mark of the beast." That is my whole point---your contradiction is that this law has nothing to do with religion (what anyone believes), if it doesn't, why would any religious person care whether or not they are receiving the MOB? So, of course our personal spiritual belief's matter! I also made a post in this thread about TS' mentioning of the Ten Commandments. I did think our conversation ended with my last post, hence why I said (several times), I have respect for your opinion and whatever you or anyone else chooses to believe; even if you continuously choose to misunderstand everything I have written <3. Also, doesn't the Bible state we should be kind, humble, respectful, patient etc., versus rude and condescending? Yes, it does. Therefore I'll add again that I respect your opinion even if it differs from mine.  bearhug


Aussie:

and SUZY7  - peace and love sister - I agree with your posts and not that you need it, but you have my full support!

 Aussie, I've been wondering where you've been and thank-you. Good to see you back and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this topic .   bearhug

MJonmind:
 

Sarahli, the autopsy chart indicates many punctures, and the famous autopsy pic shows the face of the Shroud of Turin on MJ's abdomen.  The autopsy pic is as fake as the Shroud of Turin, which was most likely of Jack de Molay in the 13th century  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login  , but looks uncannily like Prince William  (Olympics London 2012? ).  Then the fake Ark of the Covenent connected to the Pope, "vicar in place of Christ", is announced the same day as the fake death of Michael Jackson.  Also I've long seen parallels between MJ's Thriller and the Jesus story.  MJ' jacket is blood red, and he is the "living dead".  He'll "save" us from the terror on the screen, (anti-christ evil).

 MJonmind, agreed! Great post.

 Souza, I've read some of your post and will read the rest when I have time; so far though, I disagree with a few points but I respect all of the time and effort you put into your research.
 

[MJonmind]

MissG

Re; shroud...some historians believe that the shroud its just a fake (as the Ark btw, so many every where...)It is the 1st picture ever made in the 16th century by no other than genius Leonardo Da Vinci, using chemicals on a blanket and exposing them to the sun light. He covered himself with that blanket at the result is the so called shroud.

I've heard that somewhere, but have forgotten; it would be quite amazing if true!

Imconvincedmj_alive

Thinking out loud here and saying to myself how the same message that is said by one person is ignored and from another person it is accepted.

I'm sensing rather an accusing tone. I don’t remember everything you’ve posted; sometimes I skim or don’t click on links people give for the sake of time, so I’m sorry if it appears I’ve ignored something you’ve written. It wasn't deliberate.

Paula-c

The massacre of Jews and gypsies carried out by Nazi Germany of Hitler in Europe during the second world war is a typical example of genocide.  the annihilation of people and whole communities carried out in America by European settlers and their respective "evangelization" (spanish, portuguese, english, french) is also a genocide. In both examples have lost their lives, in a violent manner, millions of people

Yes, and 50X that throughout history around the world.  It’s a huge issue for me as well.  And now TS is talking in such black and white terms, Michael’s side and Satan’s side. I’m really hoping for more clarification coming soon from him.

Andrea

He posted it on January 21st as well, which is interesting.

Uploaded by TheForerunner777 on Jan 21, 2012

Yes  afraid/ , and interesting message, except I don't like it when preachers yell. :shock:

[Grace]

Just asking: are we all sure what we talk about when we mean the "mark of the beast"?
Is there a common understanding of it?

Is there any "mark of God" on the other hand which we would accept as such in a common understanding?
Is the "mark of God" "bijective" - as mathematicians would say - or in modern language: could it be copyrighted and identified by a one and only "unique brand" or could it be falsified by pretenders and wannabees?

[melody]

Grace, I've only seen two interpretations for the "mark" of God:

• keeping the commandments (which I posted about in the previous page) VS.
• the holy spirit "as the mark".

However, the following verses imply that both interpretations are correct:

Ephesians 1:13-14 (NIV)
13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Acts 5:32 (NIV)
32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.”

From this I gather that both obedience and faith are needed to get the Seal (The Holy Spirit). I was further convinced of this when I read Rev 14:12

Revelation 14:12 (KJV)

12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

The saints, his holy (set apart) people, are those who keep the commandments and have a belief/trust/faith in Jesus. Some people interpret "the faith of Jesus" to mean "the same religious faith as Jesus". Whichever way you look at it, commandments are being kept (the way Jesus said to), not to earn righteousness though because those individuals are already considered righteous by believing in Yeshua and what he accomplished. If a person believes in Yeshua, said person will do what Yeshua says—faith & obedience—those individuals are sealed/marked by Him, they have his Spirit and they have his character.

Though this is only what I've come across in my study. Is there anyone else who has a differing view?

[BeTheChange]

Great questions Grace and great answer melody.  For me, Grace's questions point to the fact that many 'interpretations' of the 'mark' (or of any part of the Bible) are possibilities but none can be 'validated' as certainties.  Many conflicting interpretations on this very thread sound equally plausible.  Based on certain 'evidence', sometimes one interpretation sounds more plausible than another.  But no matter how certain we may think we are about KNOWING something versus BELIEVING in it...God, of ALL things, is one 'category' that I, personally, don't/won't presume to have all figured out.

It's like this whole 'hoax' experience....we say we KNOW Mike's alive and have the 'evidence' to prove it...we could even provide it a court of law.  While the non-believers say they KNOW Mike is dead, they have the 'evidence' to prove it and they could also provide it in a court of law.  Some say they KNOW that we are saved by faith alone and can provide 'proof' of that in the Bible....while others says they KNOW we are saved by faith and works/obedience...and show their 'proof' found in the Bible.  But how can we KNOW any of that with 100% certainty?  Until the day Mike returns, we wouldn't win in a court of law lol, even with ALL our evidence....and until Jesus/God returns, we won't know if we passed His test(s) (or if there even was a test)---no matter how faithful or 'obedient' we've been or think we've been.

All we can do until either Bam lol....is share our own 'interpretations' while always remembering and respecting that just as we're sure we KNOW something, there's always others who feel they KNOW it differently.  This 'hoax' has taught me many things...but the main thing I've learned is that as my knowledge increases so does my knowing that there is actually very little I KNOW...but there's heck of a lot of faith and hope. 

On another note....there seems to be a general 'negative' consensus about the Roman Catholic Church, or at least all the comments I've read seem to suggest that people are at least 'cautious' of the Church, the Pope, etc.  I, too, fall within that category....but I'm beyond 'cautious' (I have a deep-rooted distain for both the Church and the Pope).  In regards to the Ark...specifically the one Ron found (the 'true' Ark, supposedly)....what would be the reaction(s) if it ends up being the Church/Pope to 'validate' it as the 'true' Ark...with Jesus' blood and all?  Hmm...for me, that would sure put a whole new spin on the 'messenger' vs. the 'message' debate....and would turn what I THINK I know upside down.

One little twist in a kaleidoscope could change the entire picture.

With L.O.V.E. always.

[MJonmind]

Melody and BeTheChange, and Grace who initiated it, excellent superb posts.  Wowzers!

     

One little twist in a kaleidoscope could change the entire picture.

I have a secret love for those old toys, magical!!

I also have developed a revulsion for all man-made church, and with TS leading me back into all that heavy doctrine, I feel like I'm kicking and screaming all the way.
NOooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

The book of James is all about faith without works is dead.

17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

This is the kicker for all you law-keepers:

10For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Is a miss as good as a mile? 

 Do we here have any idea of how high the standard is for reaching “obeying the commandments of God”, or  even having enough faith?  It’s perfection—no less.  Here is my post a while back on this thread, about my personal agonizing journey with precisely this thing. Read the words of Jesus that can bring you torture of mind.   Can you respond to this?
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Melody, just a response to the seal being the Holy Spirit. I've been involved many years with Pentecostalism, and many (not all) teach that the sign that you are filled with the HS is that you speak in tongues. Oh, how I sought for that, taking classes, laying on of hands, praying hours for years with tears, babbling to kick-start----and NOTHING but babbling in the end. How I tried to be the best Christian for almost 50 years.

[Sarahli]

We must not forget that God is the Most Merciful, and we really have to understand what that means. It means that He can forgive things we couldn't forgive. I think that the most important thing is to have a deep-rooted, sincere, unbreakable faith in Him, that's the main link by which we will be guided to do all that is necessary. If we have a deep and sincere faith, God will guide us in the right path. Why wouldnt He? Faith is the substance of things unseen, it is the essence of belief and the driving force that will lead us where we are destined to. If the destiny of people was in men's hands I think that they would put almost everyone in Hell. God knows what we do not know. 

[MJonmind]

I would also like to say that it is precisely this issue that lead to church history.


Starting with the Law of Moses, the religious leaders tried to define the law further because of perhaps individual situations needing further definition, just as law today is ever becoming more specific because of unique cases and smarter lawyers.  By Jesus' time the Sabbath rules alone were crazy, and that's what Jesus railed about. If they had had electricity, you probably would not have been able to turn on the light on Sabbath.


Then as to the interpretation of the New Testament, because there are so many possible understandings, each with some merit, that's why we have denominations, "cults", many vast libraries full of theology and interpretation, and so much historical bloodshed, hatred, and division.  Many Christians once justified slavery from Scripture, from verses such as Paul telling slaves to be obedient to their masters.  And need I go into how Christians in the church have a pecking order of who is more spiritual and holy from their words and deeds.  /pull hair/ /judge/

[MJonmind]

We must not forget that God is the Most Merciful, and we really have to understand what that means. It means that He can forgive things we couldn't forgive. I think that the most important thing is to have a deep-rooted, sincere, unbreakable faith in Him, that's the main link by which we will be guided to do all that is necessary. If we have a deep and sincere faith, God will guide us in the right path. Why wouldnt He? Faith is the substance of things unseen, it is the essence of belief and the driving force that will lead us where we are destined to. If the destiny of people was in men's hands I think that they would put almost everyone in Hell. God knows what we do not know.

THAT is precisely why I firmly believe in the whole OTHER understanding of Scripture (the bigger hidden picture), that many of you know I've talked plenty about.  Nothing, not even TS will distract me from that, and that's also why I think TS has something up his sleeve in all his "law-keeping" talk.  Michael ALWAYS talked of healing the planet, love for all people and skin-color, one religion of LOVE.  Everything TS/Back/Front says has to be brought through that filter for me.  If I didn't think TS was Michael, I wouldn't have any use for his teaching.  But I 100% trust Michael.

[Im_convincedmjalive]

Im_convinced, it very much matters who you addressed that post to. You stated that "you didn't know where I got my information from when I responded to you." Well, of course what I was responding to wouldn't be found in the post you addressed to someone else, but rather the one you addressed to me. That makes a difference. My posts were in response to your post below:

Suzy7-Actually I didn't say I don't know where you got your information from. What I said was "I have no clue how you see something that is not there." The red highlighted words in my post below that I have underlined was me copying/repeating your words in your post that I underlined. Those sentences were not my words. I think this is becoming a matter of misunderstanding/misinterpreting. I can see what your saying about the religion aspect but that is not what I have said. When it comes to this MoB law it really doesn't matter what anyone's religious beliefs are nor will it matter if someone believes in God or not. The scripture says:
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15 The second beast was allowed to give breath to the statue so it could speak. He was allowed to kill all who refused to worship the statue. 16 He also forced everyone to receive a mark on the right hand or on the forehead. People great or small, rich or poor, free or slave had to receive the mark.  17 They could not buy or sell anything unless they had the mark. The mark is the name of the beast or the number of his name. 18 Here is a problem that you have to be wise to figure out. If you can, figure out what the beast's number means. It is man's number. His number is 666.

Honestly I wish this wasn't going to happen. I think perhaps you made a mistake in thinking that I have come up (on my own/my idea) with the understanding of it not mattering whether someone is religious or not. I am going by what the bible says. There was no condesending in my posts nor was I rude. If anything I could say it was rude of you to continue to nitpick at my posts insisting that I was contradicting myself. Don't make this out to be your a goody goody and I am the bad girl. Please trust and believe that if I was to be rude or condesending you would definitely know it. I was very fair and polite to you. I am addressing this post to you Suzy7 as a person and I am not making this to be about who is right or who is wrong according to what I believe or what you believe. You still didn't find contradictions in what I said. I am not the only person to have said it doesn't matter what your/anyones belief is at the end of the day because if this law is passed EVERYONE will be forced to abide by it or they will face CONSEQUENCES. Also I was not the first one to bring up Jesus/being saved/salvation having to do with the MoB law directly. It is indirectly attached. That is probably why this became confusing.

Im_convinced, I'm sorry I didn't respond earlier, I didn't see your post until now. I'll try and add some more info to make this even clearer, although I think I've said quite a bit. No, I do not think not keeping the Sabbath is taking the Mark of the Beast at all; in fact almost the contrary. Christians are not required to keep the Sabbath according to the Bible. And whether or not it is the "Mark of the Beast" (I'll use abbreviation MOB) depends upon what you believe, simply because Jews keep the Sabbath and therefore it would be MOB, whereas Christians do not and therefore, it would not be the MOB. Also, I doubt atheists think anything is the MOB given they don't even believe in God. I think people should be cautious before accepting that a law like this will even be passed, much less tolerated. Until we see proof this will come into fruition, paranoia is unnecessary and unhelpful.

Yes we are living according to the Roman calendar, and thus Sunday is our day of "rest". This did originate from Pagan worship of the Sun, but since we are not required to keep Sabbath any day, especially Sunday, than no Christian is taking the MOB. You stated that the saints will be saved for they will not receive the mark if they have faith and follow God's commandments. Well, isn't that what I've been saying? We are to have faith and follow God's commandments of LOVE, see Jono's posts. This does not require keeping Sabbath, as that law was fulfilled and done away with. Jesus referred to the Jews as the "synagogue of Satan" for a reason; they chose to deny him and even killed him in order to stay bound by the Old Covenant. So although the fourth commandment commands the observing of the 7th day as a sabbath rest, it must be kept in mind that the Ten Commandments were part of the law given to the nation of Israel at Mount Sinai. This law covenant was a sign of *their* relationship with God in order to commemorate their deliverance, not to us. (Deut. 5:15; Ex. 31:16)

Suzy7- I really think you don't grasp the concept of what the mark of the beast law aka sunday law is. This has nothing to do with whether or not someone is a Christian or Jew. It does not matter if someone believes in God or not. This has to do with Revelation 13 and below is the scripture pointing out what the mark of the beast means for EVERYONE. This is not about Jews keeping the Sabbath and therefore they receive the mark of the beast because they are. This has nothing to do with Christians and them not keeping the Sabbath and therefore they don't receive the mark of the beast.  The Sabbath is technically supposed to be kept on Saturday and when the mark of the beast law is enforced people will be forced to keep the Sabbath on the wrong day, Sunday. Now if we refuse to go along with the law and refuse to go to church on sunday then we will not receive the mark of the beast. If someone goes along with it because they will not be able to buy or sell, etc. then they will be taking the mark of the beast.
 
I never once said that the mark of the beast makes a distinction between Jews or Christians. I am neither of those because those are titles that have to do with religious names. I never said anything about saints. The info I copied and pasted said that and also the Bible says so.

One other thing about this mark of the beast law, it is not related to Jesus' sacrifice on the cross for us in the way you are connecting it. Yes I know that Jesus died for our sins. Through his blood we are given grace from God and offered salvation. I do know about salvation and it doesn't depend on works to receive it. The subject of that is seperate from what I am pointing out. I have said before this information I am providing is for the sole purpose of it being evidence and after that it is up to the people to study it or not. I have said my last comment on this subject just now and I respect your choice in how to believe so please respect my choice. I am not even saying that anyone should or should not keep the Sabbath. I don't but I know I should because the Bible has God's word saying so.

I do not just think this way independantly from not studying and not reading scriptures in the Bible. I have formed my understanding of this issue from study of the Bible in regards to revelations and I have read other info and watched youtube videos. This is not just my opinion. This information is not to make people scared or paranoid but to give them an opportunity to know what is ahead in the near future. The evidence is there for all to see and the proof will be in prophesies fulfilled.

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15 The second beast was allowed to give breath to the statue so it could speak. He was allowed to kill all who refused to worship the statue. 16 He also forced everyone to receive a mark on the right hand or on the forehead. People great or small, rich or poor, free or slave had to receive the mark. 17 They could not buy or sell anything unless they had the mark. The mark is the name of the beast or the number of his name. 18 Here is a problem that you have to be wise to figure out. If you can, figure out what the beast's number means. It is man's number. His number is 666.

The National Sunday Law if it goes into effect would be a law that would force everyone even athiest into going to church and worshipping on sunday the day for satan. There will be punishments for not going along with the law, for example the fact that we wouldn't be able to buy or sell, wouldn't be able to buy food, clothes, medicine, etc. So basically if I stand my ground and refuse to obey the law I will face punishments. The Sunday law would force people to bow down to satan. Therefore if people follow the law they will be worshipping satan and receive the mark of the beast.

^^My comment from my last post. I also would like to point out that the subject of the ark of the covenant was in TS' post and that does have to do with the Ten Commandments.

Suzy7:

Im_convincedmjalive:

The above websites could help you and anyone else struggling with this part of the end of the world revelations.

I am not "struggling" to understand the EOW, just your contradictions. Also, my question to you was rhetorical; I know you believe in God and the Bible, that is why you care whether or not you receive the "mark of the beast." That is my whole point---your contradiction is that this law has nothing to do with religion (what anyone believes), if it doesn't, why would any religious person care whether or not they are receiving the MOB? So, of course our personal spiritual belief's matter! I also made a post in this thread about TS' mentioning of the Ten Commandments. I did think our conversation ended with my last post, hence why I said (several times), I have respect for your opinion and whatever you or anyone else chooses to believe; even if you continuously choose to misunderstand everything I have written <3. Also, doesn't the Bible state we should be kind, humble, respectful, patient etc., versus rude and condescending? Yes, it does. Therefore I'll add again that I respect your opinion even if it differs from mine.

I posted the website links for whoever may be struggling with the concepts of the MoB and EOW/Revelation. If it doesn't apply to you, great. Now that you have had your say and I have responded please lets move on.


P. S. To MJonmind-I was not accusing you of anything nor was there an accusing tone. I said thinking out loud and saying to myself....
I make observations and that is what I have seen regarding anyone and everything. Ya know when you read someone's comment it is the reader who attaches the tone to it.

On a side note the website links I have posted could answer the current conversation regarding the Seal (mark) of God.

[Sarahli]

We must not forget that God is the Most Merciful, and we really have to understand what that means. It means that He can forgive things we couldn't forgive. I think that the most important thing is to have a deep-rooted, sincere, unbreakable faith in Him, that's the main link by which we will be guided to do all that is necessary. If we have a deep and sincere faith, God will guide us in the right path. Why wouldnt He? Faith is the substance of things unseen, it is the essence of belief and the driving force that will lead us where we are destined to. If the destiny of people was in men's hands I think that they would put almost everyone in Hell. God knows what we do not know.

THAT is precisely why I firmly believe in the whole OTHER understanding of Scripture (the bigger hidden picture), that many of you know I've talked plenty about.  Nothing, not even TS will distract me from that, and that's also why I think TS has something up his sleeve in all his "law-keeping" talk.  Michael ALWAYS talked of healing the planet, love for all people and skin-color, one religion of LOVE.  Everything TS/Back/Front says has to be brought through that filter for me.  If I didn't think TS was Michael, I wouldn't have any use for his teaching.  But I 100% trust Michael.

I understand you MJonmind. I have pondered a lot about all this. I am bamboozled LOL because as a Muslim who also believe in Qu'ran then, I don't see how the Catholic Church will have any impact on the other many religions. Well, maybe there will be a way as it is supposed to be something "worldwide" but the Catholic Church doesn't represent or have "authority" for the other religions. Unless the leaders all make a satanic pact!  errrr Anyway I don't follow any so-called authorities in religion, my allegiance is to God alone.

And concerning the Sabbath it isn't required in Qu'ran we have the Friday prayer instead.

16:124
The Sabbath was decreed only for those who ended up disputing it. Your Lord is the One who will judge them on the Day of Resurrection regarding their disputes.

It kind of confirms that Jews and Christians must keep it holy.  :? Anyway I am confused about what the future will bring. Hence why my first and last resort, despite learning and studying of course, is my unbreakable and unshakable and nurturing, and love-filling faith in God. I am asking Him to guide me and help me discern, see the truth and believe in it when it is presented in front of my eyes. I know this feeling of knowing what is the truth.

bearhug

[melody]

@BeTheChange: Wow, imagine that  :shock:

If the Catholic Church did "validate" the ark, then they would also have to accept the stone tablets it held; from what I understand they number their commandments differently. I don't know if that's an issue, but I guess it would be a lie to list them without the second commandment and then split the tenth into two as if they were distinct.

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1. I am the LORD your God:
you shall not have
strange Gods before me.

2. You shall not take
the name of the LORD your God in vain. (Should be #3)

3. Remember to keep holy the LORD'S Day. (Should be #4)

4. Honor your father and your mother. (Should be #5)

5. You shall not kill. (Should be #6)

6. You shall not commit adultery. (Should be #7)

7. You shall not steal. (Should be #8)

8. You shall not bear false witness
against your neighbor.                   (Should be #9)

9. You shall not covet
your neighbor's wife. (Should be #10)

10. You shall not covet
your neighbor's goods. (^^^ should be included with that)
 

...which you probably know already, but for those who don't, there ya' go.



@MJonmind: I think the whole law-keeping boils down to this concept: keep the believer out of a troublesome path and in the path of love/peace, whether it's summarized in ten or two. Both, if followed as instructed, ensure that we restrain hatefulness, abound in love, stay loyal, have mercy, and show kindness; he expects his followers to have all of these qualities permeating their speech, thought, and behavior; I think the ten commandments help develop that. When I read them I hear "I know what makes humanity miserable, if you do this and avoid that, you're good to go". Salvation unto heavenly immortality is simply believing; Salvation from earthly misery is keeping the commands.

I'm aware of the "baptism of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues" doctrine, lol what a mouthful. It is a blatant contradiction to what 1 Corinthians 14 says on "how" and "where" it should be used; I honestly do not see any scriptural support for what they are claiming. If someone is going to speak in tongues at a gathering of believers then someone should be interpreting what was said and it should only be one person speaking in tongues at a time (YHWH is a god of order, not chaos), yet they have the whole church babbling simultaneously, even the kids. Who is interpreting? The whole point of gathering for "church" is to edify each other; they can't edify anyone if nobody understands what's being said. Sadly, all I've seen at these "buildings" is vain, empty ritual.

Just thinking about the different ways the Holy Spirit would descend on people: John the Baptist received the Holy Spirit while he was still in his mother's womb (Luke 1:15) and he never performed any "miracles" (John 10:41). No one (not even John himself) witnessed him(self) speaking in tongues; so if they were around back then, they would have asserted that John was not filled with the Spirit, yet he was. Then there's the 70 elders in the desert with Moses (Numbers 11:25), they all prophesied instead of speaking in tongues when the Spirit descended upon them. That should be enough to put an end to all that nonsense (literally, because the babbling makes no sense). The people I've come across who said they have truly spoken in tongues, say they've only done it once or rarely, never voluntarily, and they spoke another human language (one they never studied) and someone else in the group was able to interpret what was said.

 

@Sarahli: I have to remind myself of that all too often. I think that, like Abraham, we obey even when we don't understand all the intricacies (leap of faith), all the while asking for understanding, like Habakkuk, for the things YHWH is willing to reveal at the time. Very hoax-like as BeTheChange mentioned.

[wishingstar]

Great questions Grace and great answer medoly.  For me, Grace's questions point to the fact that many 'interpretations' of the 'mark' (or of any part of the Bible) are possibilities but none can be 'validated' as certainties.  Many conflicting interpretations on this very thread sound equally plausible.  Based on certain 'evidence', sometimes one interpretation sounds more plausible than another.  But no matter how certain we may think we are about KNOWING something versus BELIEVING in it...God, of ALL things, is one 'category' that I, personally, don't/won't presume to have all figured out.

It's like this whole 'hoax' experience....we say we KNOW Mike's alive and have the 'evidence' to prove it...we could even provide it a court of law.  While the non-believers say they KNOW Mike is dead, they have the 'evidence' to prove it and they could also provide it in a court of law.  Some say they KNOW that we are saved by faith alone and can provide 'proof' of that in the Bible....while others says they KNOW we are saved by faith and works/obedience...and show their 'proof' found in the Bible.  But how can we KNOW any of that with 100% certainty?  Until the day Mike returns, we wouldn't win in a court of law lol, even with ALL our evidence....and until Jesus/God returns, we won't know if we passed His test(s) (or if there even was a test)---no matter how faithful or 'obedient' we've been or think we've been.

All we can do until either Bam lol....is share our own 'interpretations' while always remembering and respecting that just as we're sure we KNOW something, there's always others who feel they KNOW it differently.  This 'hoax' has taught me many things...but the main thing I've learned is that as my knowledge increases so does my knowing that there is actually very little I KNOW...but there's heck of a lot of faith and hope. 

On another note....there seems to be a general 'negative' consensus about the Roman Catholic Church, or at least all the comments I've read seem to suggest that people are at least 'cautious' of the Church, the Pope, etc.  I, too, fall within that category....but I'm beyond 'cautious' (I have a deep-rooted distain for both the Church and the Pope).  In regards to the Ark...specifically the one Ron found (the 'true' Ark, supposedly)....what would be the reaction(s) if it ends up being the Church/Pope to 'validate' it as the 'true' Ark...with Jesus' blood and all?  Hmm...for me, that would sure put a whole new spin on the 'messenger' vs. the 'message' debate....and would turn what I THINK I know upside down.

One little twist in a kaleidoscope could change the entire picture.

With L.O.V.E. always.

Much congratulations on the 1000th post! 
 party/
You know what I love about your posts?  You write straight from the heart, with a fountain of faith and love. 
I love that I can feel what you believe in, what's important to you.  It's a gift to have that in your writing BTC.
Thank you so much your the time and dedication with your posts....that goes for all here, too! 

This thread is so hugely important to the foundation of my heart and spirit.  I literally soak it all in...over and over.
Posts like yours seep into my heart and mind.  It really gives me pause to think and consider what all the world's history has to offer.  The range of emotions through this one thread is amazing.  Unlike the traditional hoax investigation threads, this is so personal to each of us.  I believe faith and religion needs to have each other to grow and learn.......no matter what we believe....we are still a unit of one......mankind, humans..whatever you want to call us.  It's a little like the old saying....."the more things change, the more they stay the same."  The more we are different, the more I feel we are the same....it's hard to explain.  For me it all comes back to faith, hope and love.  Being a positive force with your faith helps others build on theirs and pull things together in a personal way.  I see many attributes in different faiths that I respect and learn from.....for me above all, it's a love for God.  I think that's why I enjoy reading this thread...though I don't post here much. 

So, again....congrats on the 1000th BTC  
I wish you all the very best...love you all!
Blessings Always