TS/T.I.A.I discussion

[bec]

Ps. there are few girls here. As an FYI to you, because I KNOW you didn't mean it this way, but; in western culture, in pleasant company, when a male refers to a female of adult age as a "girl", it is considered belittling, disrespectful, and an attempt to verbally minimize her status and position thereby raising his own in the process of the exchange*. Males should use the term "woman" or "women" (collective) to prevent a misunderstanding of tone and to convey proper respect in social exchanges. Now that you are made aware of this cultural nuance, I am confident there will be no more future miscommunications like this. 

*unless he is gay.

I just realized there is an exception to that general social rule and as long as I'm explaining it, I better be thorough.

[SimPattyK]

[...]However, at least you have been specific with the members in question with which you had a grievance which allows them an opportunity to respond to your accusations.
I find it curious, however, that you chose to embed your complaints against Sarahli and Purelove into a question posed at SimPattyK, as if implying that they are a collective entity. That seems counter productive and just fraught with opportunities for all sorts of misunderstandings.
[...]

Thank you for emphasizing that, bec!
 That was exactly my point!! and I took all his message as an attack towards me, rather than a sincere interest in what he was asking.

[AnaMarcia]

He / They will not come here confirm or deny who they are.

In my opinion, "they" don't want to "confirm" because they have a well made plan that does not allow them to "confirm" who they are, at least not for now.
Or maybe they just don't feel like it. They don't want to. Why force anyone do what they don't want to do? have they forced you do anything that you didn't want to do?

So why continue?

Freedom of expression?
If this topic had been closed, people (me included) would have screemed : CENSORSHIP.

[...]
2) What discredit them? Lack of concrete answers, the non-fulfillment of promises and some absurd theories associated with Elvis and religious themes.

1. "Lack of concrete answers" - By this you mean you expect Ts or Front to answer concretely: "Yes, I am Michael Jackson posting as TS/Front."?
I think that this would be the most disappointing BAM ever!  :lol: For Michael to BAM on a forum , read by a few hundreds, where only 20-30 people post.
2. "The non-fulfillment of promises" - May I know which promises you are referring to?
3. "Some absurd theories associated with Elvis and religious themes" - Again generalization "some theories". Which theories more exactly? And because I wouldn't like us to flood this topic with discussions about Elvis and religion, AnaMarcia please go to the topics where you found those "absurd theories" and give your arguments for your opinion, there. I am really interested in your point of view. Thank you.

Ah .. yes. And if Michael is alive, there are 99.9% chances for him to know what's going on here.

So in case Michael is alive you admit, even better you are 99,9% sure that he knows what's going on here. Well in that case, if you think that TS and Front manipulate people and "play games" with them, do you think that Michael would allow this to happen to his fans? Or wouldn't he rather get involved [unless he had planned it all from the very beginning! including the existence of this forum with its informers] and help them by guiding them through TS and Front? Which way is it?



@Bec & BTC :

He / They will not come here confirm or deny who they are.

In my opinion, "they" don't want to "confirm" because they have a well made plan that does not allow them to "confirm" who they are, at least not for now.
Or maybe they just don't feel like it. They don't want to. Why force anyone do what they don't want to do? have they forced you do anything that you didn't want to do?

So why continue?

Freedom of expression?
If this topic had been closed, people (me included) would have screemed : CENSORSHIP.

[...]
2) What discredit them? Lack of concrete answers, the non-fulfillment of promises and some absurd theories associated with Elvis and religious themes.

1. "Lack of concrete answers" - By this you mean you expect Ts or Front to answer concretely: "Yes, I am Michael Jackson posting as TS/Front."?
I think that this would be the most disappointing BAM ever!  :lol: For Michael to BAM on a forum , read by a few hundreds, where only 20-30 people post.
2. "The non-fulfillment of promises" - May I know which promises you are referring to?
3. "Some absurd theories associated with Elvis and religious themes" - Again generalization "some theories". Which theories more exactly? And because I wouldn't like us to flood this topic with discussions about Elvis and religion, AnaMarcia please go to the topics where you found those "absurd theories" and give your arguments for your opinion, there. I am really interested in your point of view. Thank you.

Ah .. yes. And if Michael is alive, there are 99.9% chances for him to know what's going on here.

So in case Michael is alive you admit, even better you are 99,9% sure that he knows what's going on here. Well in that case, if you think that TS and Front manipulate people and "play games" with them, do you think that Michael would allow this to happen to his fans? Or wouldn't he rather get involved [unless he had planned it all from the very beginning! including the existence of this forum with its informers] and help them by guiding them through TS and Front? Which way is it?



@Bec & BTC :

SimPattyK.... Honey,

I could not understand the arrogance and cynicism about my post. That's how you follow the messages of Michael?
Do not treat me like an idiot because I'm not, OK?
I've been here many months and never had problems with anyone, simply because I try to respect the opinions of others.
I do not want and do not think Michael / TS / Front come here to say who they are ... if you read my post right you will see that I said that perhaps many questions  remain unanswered,  And I think the identity of these people will be one of them.
When I say lack of concrete answers I refer to the levels started by TS. For example, we had the answer to level 7? I think not. This is also related to the non-fulfillment of promises, right? At least for me it is.
In relation to the theories not credible, I say that to me, saying "For me" Elvis alive theory does not convince me.
But even I don't believing in some things I do not totally disbelieve in TS. So, if you read my comment right, you will reach the conclusion that I did not say anything against TS / Front ... I did not say that they are false or manipulator, in fact I was more in favor than against, right? One day, if we found that TS is false, he yet  has my admiration for his intelligence.
Finally, if I said that Michael probably know what happens here, do not you think I meant something like "If Michael knows that there are these insiders here .... this is a great point in favor of them?" I said That, darling.
I did not wanna to answer you, but I don't  like to be misunderstood, especially when my messages are so clear.
Perhaps you don't understood my english, Sorry!
Keep your stones at the right time to use them and try to respect opinions and be humble in the right dose. This certainly facilitates relationships.
I think it's better to continue as I was until today ... just watching the forum without saying a word! The emotions here are much to the surface.

Peace and love for all.

[JentleTouch]

bec your making me write more while I was gonna search for a good female company for today lol
ok but in brief, It werent my complaints against Sarahli and purelove and I haven't nursed a grievance against them. If it was the case I would call Anna's name cause I still remember her being not really nice to me and I didnt know why:) but I never have any hard feelings towards women.
As for the word "girls" that I used, Im really sorry cause I meant that as a compliment. Im not familiar with western culture) but in my country if someone calls a woman "girl" they would usually jump up to the celling and say Thank you a thousand times.)
Please, forgive me.It wasnt my intention to be disrespectful or belliting with all the Ladies here ( I hope that's the correct word).

IM NOT GAY!

[E]

Hello,
Since here is a T.S./T.I.A.I. discussion (I hope I've chosen the right place because I don't post in this forum), I've got a question for anyone who could answer it.  Why should I be trusting this theory of the T.I.A.I. and in general T.S. ? Why should anyone believe or not in it ? (No, I am not looking for an answer like ''Take it , or leave it'' ; I want to read why do YOU think this is right..)
I am simply curious about your opinions , it is NOT a bashing or rhetorical question.
And..also one for T.S. , in your opinion , the supposed (so called by you) BAM's day ..could it be the day the real murder is revealed and not the one Michael comes back ?
I am not following any theory , just investigating so I am looking forward to see your answers. typing/
Thanks in advance.

[bec]

@JT, sorry, but I'm not letting you off the hook that easy.

I just asked simpattyk some questions in the hope of getting some answers but I got only questions intead along with quite a full analyze of me and my "tortuous intentions" and not a word on the subject lol That's mostly why I asked about the effects lol
<snip>

oh and about the names I think they know who they are But out of respect for you and everyone else here I would say its sarahli
Also waving to purelove but seems she hasnt been here too often lately.

ok but in brief, It werent my complaints against Sarahli and purelove and I haven't nursed a grievance against them. If it was the case I would call Anna's name cause I still remember her being not really nice to me and I didnt know why:) but I never have any hard feelings towards women.

Then why exactly did you take the time and effort to post this at all?

Also, Ladies I notice that those who tried hard to get rid of those who were skeptical about front in the BACKs thread and constantly showed them the door have been doing exactly the same thing in here. Thats funny:) People have created a new thread to not be bashed and not welcomed anymore yet they still are lol But the funniest thing is that those whos slogan is - Get outta here if you dont like whats been discussed here NEVER follow their own advice lol
Take a leaf from Sousa's book. She is clearly not interested in this thread and doesn't make extremely long posts falling over herself to make you believe she's right and her opinion is a gospel

Based on your own statement, that all you wanted to do was ask questions to SimPattyK, you are making no effort to take responsibility for directly calling out 2 members on perceived offenses, that you sought to single out and deemed it worthy of public address, in a thread which you have had zero previous participation. This is the part that thinly veils an underlying intent, especially in light of your resulting evasiveness, and attempts to backtrack, which is passive-aggressive behavior.

In addition, your repeated assumption that all other members here are female is assumptive and makes you appear misogynistic. If you are as genuinely unfamiliar with western culture as you state, I'm sure you would interested in being more positively received in your global online endeavors going forward. Cultural faux-pas are so awkward, we are always learning. God bless the internet.

[bec]

Hello,
Since here is a T.S./T.I.A.I. discussion (I hope I've chosen the right place because I don't post in this forum), I've got a question for anyone who could answer it.  Why should I be trusting this theory of the T.I.A.I. and in general T.S. ? Why should anyone believe or not in it ? (No, I am not looking for an answer like ''Take it , or leave it'' ; I want to read why do YOU think this is right..)
I am simply curious about your opinions , it is NOT a bashing or rhetorical question.
And..also one for T.S. , in your opinion , the supposed (so called by you) BAM's day ..could it be the day the real murder is revealed and not the one Michael comes back ?
I am not following any theory , just investigating so I am looking forward to see your answers. typing/
Thanks in advance.

These 2 links should be read prior so that you can understand any answers you receive to your questions. I look forward to a good discussion when you're finished.

(keep in mind the entries on the links are categorized blog or twitter style; most recent scrolling down to past)

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[SimPattyK]

SimPattyK.... Honey,
I could not understand the arrogance and cynicism about my post.

When you accuse me of arrogance and cynicism, please come up with proof of what you say. Give quotes. Let's discuss straight on the MESSAGES written by both of us and not on your convenient INTERPRETATIONS.

Do not treat me like an idiot because I'm not, OK?

Again, sustain your statements with concrete proof,OK? Stop throwing false accusations instead of coming with reasonable arguments to sustain your  statements. Also mind mind your tone! I am not intimidated by tricks like that.
Right now you should answer yourself to your own question, Honey,

That's how you follow the messages of Michael?

And by the way, I consider your calling me "Honey" at least as a hypocrite gesture from you, if not intentionally ironic, since you and I had never ever discussed before, this "intimate, too familiar tone" is clearly NOT a sincere tender loving way of addressing a person, whom you also accuse of some serious things^^
So next time you address to me, don't "Honey me!", please leave the "nice" words aside and stick to the point!

I've been here many months and never had problems with anyone, simply because I try to respect the opinions of others.

You imply I didn't respect yours?
I think you confuse being contradicted and confronted with the lack of respect. Sorry I don't think it's the same thing. I contradicted you , but I did NOT disrespect you as you seem to insinuate here.
Anamarcia, you chose to post on a hot topic , where people strongly disagree with each other! You should expect getting strong contra arguments and you should make the difference between disrespect (see JentleTouch "discussion") and a civilized contradictory discussion (see the one I had with MissG)

I do not want and do not think Michael / TS / Front come here to say who they are ...

What do you want , then?

if you read my post right you will see that I said that perhaps many questions  remain unanswered,... And I think the identity of these people will be one of them.

You seem to have changed your opinion since your last message.
Do you often have so sudden and quick changes of opinions? and ...perhaps? - Are you sure or Are you NOT sure of what you say/believe? Yes or no? believe or not?
Stop changing your opinion as it well fits you and make up your mind before you step in a contradictory discussion, otherwise you will always wrongly feel disrespected!

When I say lack of concrete answers I refer to the levels started by TS. For example, we had the answer to level 7? I think not. This is also related to the non-fulfillment of promises, right? At least for me it is.

I thought that I would have time over the holidays for level 7 here; but that didn't happen, sorry.
Obviously, others can continue the investigation here; and I will be back here as soon as I can.
For sure, all three 7's will be done by the end of 2012: Level 7, Update 7, and Sign 7 (777).
 :!:   :!:   :!:

And you said PROMISES in the plural form, right Anamarcia? Where are the other examples?

In relation to the theories not credible, I say that to me, saying "For me" Elvis alive theory does not convince me. But even I don't believing in some things I do not totally disbelieve in TS.

And I said: "AnaMarcia please go to the topics where you found those "absurd theories" and give your arguments for your opinion, there. I am really interested in your point of view. Thank you."
And you didn't say the "theory didn't convince you" , you clearly said 'the theories are absurd"! Stop changing your statements and start being responsible for what you say!

So, if you read my comment right,

Sorry do you imply, for a second time, that I can't read right?
I always quoted what you said when I wrote a comment and I never insinuated you saying something you never said!
So please don't try to play me with words here! It looks like it is you who takes me as an idiot! not vice-versa!

you will reach the conclusion that I did not say anything against TS / Front ... I did not say that they are false or manipulator, in fact I was more in favor than against, right?

NOT right!
You did neither! You just wrote an ambiguous message, full of subtle safe insinuations, which allows you now to change your statement as it fits you best!

One day, if we found that TS is false, he yet  has my admiration for his intelligence.

There you go, we finally agree on something.
This is something I also said many times.

Finally, if I said that Michael probably know what happens here, do not you think I meant something like "If Michael knows that there are these insiders here .... this is a great point in favor of them?" I said That, darling.
I did not wanna to answer you, but I don't  like to be misunderstood, especially when my messages are so clear.
Perhaps you don't understood my english, Sorry!

Funny how when you accused me your English was perfect! than here where you play pretend not to know English so well, darling!.

Keep your stones at the right time to use them and try to respect opinions and be humble in the right dose. This certainly facilitates relationships.

Oh really! And you tell this to whom?

I think it's better to continue as I was until today ... just watching the forum without saying a word!

And here we go with the victimizing role! You attack, yet you act as a victim.  It's classic!

[bec]

Ok ok let's try not to get too heated and off subject here. We can get back to that respectful discussion, right?

[SimPattyK]

Ok ok let's try not to get too heated and off subject here. We can get back to that respectful discussion, right?

Good idea!

Let's return to the real ON-topic and civilized discussion from which we were intentionally disturbed.

Both have gained supporters, followers, people who agree with them in a higher % vs "naysayers".

1. Why do you think they have gained supporters?
2. Do you think those supporters are their victims?
3. Do you think those supporters are easily manipulated individuals?
4. Do you think the number of their supporters is great? How great, approximately?
5. Do you think that the number of their supporters is indicative of that power you were talking about?

Many members here have posted valid points, smart posts, and a lot of informative deductions regarding MJ his life and the case yet are not as "powerful" or have influenced the rest as TS or Front does.

1. Does it really matter that some people are powerful and others are not? I mean as long as you consider all the posts were smart and informative, does it really matter who is powerful and who is not? regardless of that, the reader is enriched, so the purpose is fulfilled.
2. According to you that power means the power of attraction? You think that what makes TS/Front powerful is that people are attracted to them?
3. Do you think it is a bad thing that people are attracted to TS/Front?
4. According to you what are or what could be the dangers / negative effects of this attraction/power?
5. Do you think that because TS/Front are powerful, they can force people of doing something bad? In what way can/could TS/Front force people to read their messages? and/or do something bad?
6. To what extent do you think their power goes?

Of the how come and the why i made up my mind long ago and some thoughts i rather keep to not influence others too much with second opinions.

Trust me, I wont be influenced, you can tell me if you want, even if it never occurred to me to ask you that.

No one needs to agree or think alike.

I agree and I never said otherwise.
The reason why I am having this dialogue with you is not intended to have you agreeing with me nor vice-versa.
I only want to understand how you view things, what makes you doubt and I find very interesting the way you think, it arouses my interest the more I read you.

I am ok with others putting certain members on a pedestal but not to impose who to trust or like or enjoy.

Yes I think the same.
But who imposed those things and to whom?

I like TS´s posts, and Front´s at times, and yours SimpattiK and I value every one the same.

Thank you very much. And just know I appreciate yours very much too!

There have been here members who posted a lot of info, quite good posts and never got as many followers.

Do you think that "getting many followers" is an important thing?

Some of the posts talked about things that TS have been posting after they made the posts, but people ignored those posts when the others wrote it.

Super!! I think this^^ is the best thing you wrote in this message!
And whose fault is that, according to you?
Is it really TS' or Front's fault that people are more receptive and pay more attention to the person who delivers the message than to the message in itself?

That´s power and influence

Ok, let's say a user posts something very interesting today and people ignore it , just like you said it happened other times too.
In this case: how are TS or Front guilty for this? How can they influence people to ignore that interesting post?

and imo is happening because some members DO BELIEVE that MJ is behind those accounts.

1. But do you think that "some members" believe that because they have some reasons to believe it ? or Do you think they have no reasons at all?
2. In case you think they have no reasons at all: can you at least admit that maybe it's you who doesn't understand/see their reasons? even if there's "pages" of them?!
I mean you're entitled to think they have no reasons to believe that MJ is behind TS/Front and nobody has the right to force you to think otherwise. But we can at least talk about it , right?
So what I'm saying is that the fact that you don't see/understand those reasons, it doesn't mean they do not exist.

3. If you believe that Michael is alive, how do you see him now? Do you think he will ever come back? Do you think he has a plan or do you think he faked his death and now he's living happily ever after in his hidden place?
4. In your opinion, Michael would never try to contact his fans via family-clues and or Internet? Do you think he just got it all out of his head once he "died" for the rest of the world?
5. In case you think that Michael still wants to come back and keep contact with his fans, how do you think he would do that?

Get ma´point now?

More or less. Thank you for answering.
Much LOVE to you!

[SimPattyK]

here , E! Since this is your first post on this forum.

[...]I've got a question for anyone who could answer it.  Why should I be trusting this theory of the T.I.A.I. and in general T.S. ?

This is not an answer, this is just my opinion I'm giving you: You shouldn't trust this theory and any other theory and you shouldn't trust TS nor anyone else.
In case you read "the theory" and in case you read all the messages posted by TS, then the next thing you should do (IMO) is to verify and check everything you have read. Do your own research and see if what you find fits with what you initially read. Think for yourself and reflect on what you read then draw your own conclusions: can that be true or not?

I want to read why do YOU think this is right..)

If you want to find out why this theory is right or wrong, then you should seek for this answer yourself.
If TS says this theory is right, you shouldn't trust him
If I or any other user here says this theory is right , then you shouldn't trust US either!
So why do you want to read why do WE think this is right?
You should research and find your own reasons to believe that this theory is either right or wrong!

As for the reasons why believers think this theory is right, well, if you really want to know them, you have an ENTIRE forum at your disposal! Feel free to start reading in whatever topic you want! Do you really think, we could present all those reasons , here, in just this one topic, after everything that had been written on a whole forum in 2.5 years?

[curls]

I think I'm going to follow JT's advice and spend some time with my family away from the computer this weekend. There's just too emotion and drama here right now.  I don't know why everyone's being so touchy and I include myself in that - time for some time out! See you soon. xxx

[AnaMarcia]

SimPattyK,

I admire your passion and faith in the hoax.

Unfortunately I do not have much time to search for all topics that leave me questions about the theories of TS, as you suggested.

I have a PhD thesis to finish so I'm not able to concentrate fully on this board as before. But a few weeks maybe I have more time. Until then, I hope to have some answers that we have not had (and it is not the identity of TS / Front). I wait for it every day.

Anyway, thanks for your answer.
Sorry if I was nasty.

See you soon!

[SimPattyK]

@AnaMarcia: I also admire people who admit to their mistakes. Thank you for your explanation. Good luck with your thesis!

[...]
Well, I’m sticking to my over-all heart feeling that as God channelled MJ’s music and lyrics, He also channelled the numerology/code plan, it’s beauty and complexity, and gave him the ability and protection in bringing it to fullfillment. When you consider the busyiness/demands/stresses/dangers of his life--that is near to impossible on a human level IMO.  I don't think anything on this scale has been accomplished (that's including Elvis mind you).  I believe it’s all a part of his calling from God, and a Biblical fullfillment, that I believe will be more revealed as time goes by.   You agree there are numbers throughout the Scriptures, as well as in the layout of the accepted canon of the Bible. I disagree that number patterns are occultic but can be used for good or evil.  God can do whatever he wants.  Just like Michaelangelo's, Mozart's and more, MJ's gifts and number plan came from God.  He could see it before his eyes and wrote it down, worked with it, babied it, toyed with it till it was fine-tuned.  Most of all--he was completely committed to doing what God wanted him to do, and it was all for L.O.V.E.  It still means MJ is a genius, but it was with "help".

"I try to be kind and generous and to give to people and to do what I think God wants me to do. Sometimes I pray and say "where do you want me to go next, God? What do you want me to do from here?" I’ve always been very spiritual in that way. It’s nothing new."  2005 At Large with Geraldo Rivera TV Interview

Seth Riggs, "You know, there was one moment. I was playing a piano, and he was standing next to me. All of a sudden, he stretched his hands, looking upwards. It seemed to me that it was very important to him. That’s why I left the room and switched the light off. After half an hour I came back to the room. He was whispering: “Thank you for my talent. Thank you for everything I’ve got. Thank you for all the people who love me. Tell me what I should do, and I’ll do it.” It seemed to me that it was the moment of his communication with God."
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Wonderful post as always MjonMind!

[Australian MJ BeLIEver]

weclome E. was suprised to see your first post in this thread. if you'd like to use it, there is also a great thread where you can introduce yourself and learn a little how the forum works. its in the messages from admin board. also there are some other great threads for newbs such as back posts in video format, colated TIAI info (unless you are not a new user... suspicious//) jk  nah, in all seriousness there is some great past information for new members that will benefit you grately in seeking answers - even if the answer is simply 'more information' from all the various angles so that you can educatedly make your own decision on what you believe - just as all the other members have done.

i only joined the forum about 4.5 months ago and spent most of my online time reading archived forums, locked threads, to get a better understanding to assist me with what i now believe. i completely recommend it. i am still going. still reading old locked threads from the archives. they hold a wealth of info.

some great advice that bec actually gave me via pm when i first started was instead of asking other people questions about 'this' or 'that' - type in a word you are curious about in search and all related posts come up. that way you are not just replying on one persons opinion, but you are looking at the subject from the many possible angles.

i did that. it actually was great for my endeavour to find truth and still is!


all the best.