TS/T.I.A.I discussion

[Sarahli]

Well this subject of Tim Simkins has been brought several times already with no conclusion and this time again with abslolutely no evidence, clue or dot to be connected. All the while we received many more clues validating TS and Front but people refuse to see the connections. I'm sorry but I am like this right now ------> /pull hair/

TS has not taken over we believed in the Hoax before he came in and it's a free choice if one wants to "follow" his posts. No one is obliged so I don't understand why all the attacks against him. People are free to open their own threads and begin their own investigation. No?

[fordtocarr]

Well this subject of Tim Simkins has been brought several times already with no conclusion and this time again with abslolutely no evidence, clue or dot to be connected. All the while we received many more clues validating TS and Front but people refuse to see the connections. I'm sorry but I am like this right now ------> /pull hair/

TS has not taken over we believed in the Hoax before he came in and it's a free choice if one wants to "follow" his posts. No one is obliged so I don't understand why all the attacks against him. People are free to open their own threads and begin their own investigation. No?

I'm CERTAINTY  NOT  attacking TS.
I never said a bad thing against him.  I actually said I hope he IS Michael.  I hope I am wrong.  I love the people here and TS is one of us.
What I am saying is all of the hoax tends to be based upon his "rules" and if I don't follow them or research them, I'm totally lost on the
entire forum.  Opening my own thread would lead to being lost as most believe TS is gospel. 
I'm just saying, if some of us do NOT fully, entirely give our whole trust in TS, or ANYONE, then we hear things as you wrote.
If I have free will, which I do and do not follow most things now because of this..then I am lost on the whole site.
 

[GINAFELICIA]

Oh, so this is all a test, a mind game? I thought Michael had some serious reasons for this hoax, and now playing mind games and "testing" believers is one of them? That doesn't sound very likable at all.

Well maybe you thought incorrectly. Or perhaps more accurately, maybe you are too short sighted in your assessment. I am personally of the opinion that this hoax is for many reasons; multiple serious agendas being fulfilled via an entertainment vessel. I do believe the ARG aspect is a game designed to promote spiritual (non-religious) awakening and self exploration/awareness. You want to call that mind games, fine. I disagree with you.

But then perhaps I am thinking incorrectly as well.

Seriously, if someone just wants to test me, play with me, manipulate me - or do this to other people, they can go eff themselves. Nothing justifies that, not even a death hoax for serious reasons. That is my honest opinion. And one of the reasons why I always questioned certain "insiders". And come on, if they themselves are saying "I'm testing you" - I don't want to be on the receiving end of this, in general and especially not if I don't even know who this person is, because it's just some anonymous username on the internet. I don't want to be the mouse running through the labyrinth while someone is watching me, may the intentions be good or bad. A decent human being doesn't use other human beings that way.

Sarah, I also think MJ will never say - I'm testing you. He's just not that kind of person.
But hey, do you remember Murray said in his documentary that Michael had been testing him for a pretty long time before he could trust him? So, does that mean that we are wrong in thinking that or Murray was lying?

I totally see Michael testing people. But this is just my perception.

[Sarahli]

Well this subject of Tim Simkins has been brought several times already with no conclusion and this time again with abslolutely no evidence, clue or dot to be connected. All the while we received many more clues validating TS and Front but people refuse to see the connections. I'm sorry but I am like this right now ------> /pull hair/

TS has not taken over we believed in the Hoax before he came in and it's a free choice if one wants to "follow" his posts. No one is obliged so I don't understand why all the attacks against him. People are free to open their own threads and begin their own investigation. No?

I'm CERTAINTY  NOT  attacking TS.
I never said a bad thing against him.  I actually said I hope he IS Michael.  I hope I am wrong.  I love the people here and TS is one of us.
What I am saying is all of the hoax tends to be based upon his "rules" and if I don't follow them or research them, I'm totally lost on the
entire forum.  Opening my own thread would lead to being lost as most believe TS is gospel. 
I'm just saying, if some of us do NOT fully, entirely give our whole trust in TS, or ANYONE, then we hear things as you wrote.
If I have free will, which I do and do not follow most things now because of this..then I am lost on the whole site.

Hi Ford, don't worry I'm just let's say passionate and I love the people here as well. I think that I can partly understand (lol) excuse me to not fully understand because for me it's obvious that TS is not deceiving anyone. Now, I don't think that opening a new investigative thread is a bad idea, on the contrary those who really doubt TS will be able to gather and contribute there without bringing TS's name in the mix.

[scorpionchik]

I will just let it go and wait for things unfold itself. One thing is clear- WE HAVE BEEN HERE TO  "INVESTIGATE"= FIND OUT WHETHER MJ IS ALIVE-IF SO , HOW HE DID IT; IF DEAD- WHO DID IT. THEN HOAX INVESTIGATION TURNS OUT TO BE DIFFICULT AND TO KEEP  FAITH AND HOAX GOING, A NEW THEORY HAS DEVELOPED:GOD, BIBLE,ETC.
MICHAEL'S BELIEVE IN GOD AND HIS MESSAGE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HOAX AND REAL REASONS BEHIND IT. IF MJ KILLED IS ABOUT MONEY, IF MJ IS ALIVE AND HOXING, IT IS ABOUT REVENGE & THREAT TO LIFE.
 AS FOR TS, WHETHER HE IS TOM SIMKIN OR NOT, TO ME HE IS NOT MICHAEL NOR HIS INSIDER, NEVER WAS. THIS IS NOT A BIG NEWS FOR ME, BUT IT IS NOT AN HONEST GAME TO ONES WHO BELIEVED HE IS MJ OR "HIRED" BY MJ.

[bec]

Oh, so this is all a test, a mind game? I thought Michael had some serious reasons for this hoax, and now playing mind games and "testing" believers is one of them? That doesn't sound very likable at all.

Well maybe you thought incorrectly. Or perhaps more accurately, maybe you are too short sighted in your assessment. I am personally of the opinion that this hoax is for many reasons; multiple serious agendas being fulfilled via an entertainment vessel. I do believe the ARG aspect is a game designed to promote spiritual (non-religious) awakening and self exploration/awareness. You want to call that mind games, fine. I disagree with you.

But then perhaps I am thinking incorrectly as well.

Seriously, if someone just wants to test me, play with me, manipulate me - or do this to other people, they can go eff themselves. Nothing justifies that, not even a death hoax for serious reasons. That is my honest opinion. And one of the reasons why I always questioned certain "insiders". And come on, if they themselves are saying "I'm testing you" - I don't want to be on the receiving end of this, in general and especially not if I don't even know who this person is, because it's just some anonymous username on the internet. I don't want to be the mouse running through the labyrinth while someone is watching me, may the intentions be good or bad. A decent human being doesn't use other human beings that way.

Well see, but again, if that's how you feel, and I DO respect it, you have a choice to disregard and move on to something else you deem more worthy of your time. No one is trying to force you to watch and read and keep track of, least of all TS. You can click the red X and move on. Everyone makes a personal choice to participate in TS threads or not. They aren't pop ups when you visit the site or anything. There's plenty of other topics here, in addition, anyone can start a new topic at any time if they would like to discuss something not already being discussed. I just don't understand the complaint, much less the level of aggression over it?

Free will; everyone here has freedom of will. Do what you want. Let others do what they want. Everyone is happy.

Sarah, I also think MJ will never say - I'm testing you. He's just not that kind of person.
But hey, do you remember Murray said in his documentary that Michael had been testing him for a pretty long time before he could trust him? So, does that mean that we are wrong in thinking that or Murray was lying?

I think it's profound that you said this, JT. I do strongly believe that we all need to seriously consider the possibility that Michael Jackson is absolutely nothing like the person we believed him to be for our entire lives. I don't know that I'm right about that, just that the notion is not that far out.

@fordtocarr and alsmom, you make a choice, it's a leap of faith of sorts, it's not being afraid to be wrong, it's also moderation and an emotionally healthy self. If you are confident in yourself you aren't afraid to be wrong, because you know that whatever the future holds, you can deal with it!

If you aren't willing to make that leap, it's ok! You don't have to. TS and TIAI are not the whole hoax. There are many many many other ways people can participate and many many many other things to be investigated. This is an open world, there are no boundaries. Much like life, the hoax is what YOU make of it.

[GINAFELICIA]

It matters who one follows. We have to know who's behind.
But somehow I have a problem believeing TS is Tim Simkin. Can't explain why though.
To be honest for a while I thought TS is an FBI guy  errrr
 WTF?? I don't know what to believe.

[MJonmind]

See the hidden picture.  Leave your pre-conceived assumptions behind, enter into another realm.  Do you really want to understand Michael and TS, or just keep beating a dead horse?

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Posted by Sebastian Smee June 23, 2011 12:29 PM
After taking a look at Piero di Cosimo's "The Discovery of Honey by Bacchus" at the Worcester Art Museum in Tuesday's You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login, I received an email from a man named Donald Novak:
"One thing you didn't comment on but seems to jump out of the painting is that the tree trunk is a grotesque of a woman in labor. I don't understand how that image might belong to the story. But maybe just another manifestion of his [Piero's] strange personality. Or is it a figment of my diseased mind?"

Decide for yourself, but I personally don't think Mr Novak's mind is diseased. I have no idea how much validity his interpretation has, but it does chime with an interpretation once offered in Art Bulletin by Fr Thomas Matthews of Boston College.
Where Panofsky's interpretation underplayed the significance of the discovery of honey, Matthews points out that honey had long been associated with the theme of love.
The multiple occurrence of couples in the painting and Pan's offering of a bunch of onions (a known aphrodisiac to the ancients) confirmed for him the amorous theme.
And so perhaps, with this interpretation in mind, Novak's observation about the tree makes sense?
There is, after all, an infant issuing forth from the hollow in the tree's base...  Or, as Matthews put it: "For this gnarled and very striking tree which holds the hidden and desired honey is the same tree in whose hollow, as in a womb, we discover the child at play. In one bold stroke, the discovery of honey is thus identified with the discovery of love."

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[sigh]

I'm CERTAINTY  NOT  attacking TS.
I never said a bad thing against him.  I actually said I hope he IS Michael.  I hope I am wrong.  I love the people here and TS is one of us.
What I am saying is all of the hoax tends to be based upon his "rules" and if I don't follow them or research them, I'm totally lost on the
entire forum.  Opening my own thread would lead to being lost as most believe TS is gospel. 
I'm just saying, if some of us do NOT fully, entirely give our whole trust in TS, or ANYONE, then we hear things as you wrote.
If I have free will, which I do and do not follow most things now because of this..then I am lost on the whole site.
 

Yep. That's exactly what happens.

[Dontwalkaway]

I agree with you MJonMind.  I also get the feeling that Michael is trying to follow God's plan for the whole world.  It's not about a particular group.    That's why I'm trusting Michael with this plan because I think he is trying to follow God's plan.  It seem's like this is huge and difficult and a big sacrifice.  We have to help him because he can't do it by himself.   It seem's like God has sent Michael and maybe a few others to help humanity and the world.  We have to unite.  This may be our last chance.   Remember "We have four years to get it right, or it's irreversible".   

Love                 

[GINAFELICIA]

OK call me paranoid but I think TS tested many of us...but he/she used various usernames for this suspicious//...I could name some but I know people would not agree with me...only TS knows if he/she did it or not.

call it a training for the army of love  errrr /pull hair/

[_Anna_]

There is no attack against anybody. people perceive it as attack because it doesn't fit to what image they have about some person.
So far all the discussions about this have been left in the air, forgotten, banned, people shut up. I just want to have a place where we are free to express our concerns, thoughts and opinions without being slammed. Some of us honestly don't want fights. Just answers and understanding. We are free and democratically we have the right to discuss this subject too, because no one bashed anyone. This is serious and real talk, not bashing.

There is an obvious connection between TS and STUDY/Tim Simkin. At least, if you state you don't find ANY connection, this doesn't mean anything?- the name used, the slogan used, the religious aspect and the numerology. These are evidence of connection that in my opinion are stronger than other subtle clues. You see it with your eyes. From here all the questions and discussions, and debate over the entire purpose of all this.

Like fordtocarr said, I put here my thoughts also- some of us can just stay away. Leave it all and stay away. But Michael fought all his life to bring people together, to not discriminate anyone, to not separate anyone. This context of "you don't believe, you don't belong" is discriminating. Is Michael's message really so much about religion? Is Michael's will to have so many people leaving? If anything, it should unite us, not separate us. It's obvious and everyone knows, that as long as you perpetrate a religious message there will be always a reason for separation. Because there are people with other convictions, other religions, others are atheists.

It's true that TS/TIAI didn't have only religious subjects, but many are based on religious aspects and Bible study and Lord preaching, studying the Ark of the Covenant, etc.

I really believe in my heart and you don't need to be his mother or brother to understand that a man like Michael, who tried to unite people as one allover the world, would not go with the principle of "you don't believe, you don't belong". TS said once something of this sort: "have you noticed how some are ready and willing to rather have MJ dead than accept they are wrong?" when it was a discussion about the numerology and how people questioned it. Have you really thought how much such statement hurts? How can one say something like that? It's making you to feel guilty for not accepting it.

This is one of my concerns, others brought up other concerns. For me it's about what Michael WANTS. Like fordtocarr said- is this what Michael wants?

[GINAFELICIA]

I really believe in my heart and you don't need to be his mother or brother to understand that a man like Michael, who tried to unite people as one allover the world, would not go with the principle of "you don't believe, you don't belong". TS said once something of this sort: "have you noticed how some are ready and willing to rather have MJ dead than accept they are wrong?" when it was a discussion about the numerology and how people questioned it. Have you really thought how much such statement hurts? How can one say something like that? It's making you to feel guilty for not accepting it.

This is one of my concerns, others brought up other concerns. For me it's about what Michael WANTS. Like fordtocarr said- is this what Michael wants?

I don't think TS meant what you say with that statement. In fact I agree with TS - some would prefer to have MJ dead than admit they were wrong. So very true.
To see what Michael would want we simply have to watch This is it again. There it is plain and clear what he wants.

[bec]

I'm CERTAINTY  NOT  attacking TS.
I never said a bad thing against him.  I actually said I hope he IS Michael.  I hope I am wrong.  I love the people here and TS is one of us.
What I am saying is all of the hoax tends to be based upon his "rules" and if I don't follow them or research them, I'm totally lost on the
entire forum.  Opening my own thread would lead to being lost as most believe TS is gospel. 
I'm just saying, if some of us do NOT fully, entirely give our whole trust in TS, or ANYONE, then we hear things as you wrote.
If I have free will, which I do and do not follow most things now because of this..then I am lost on the whole site.
 

Yep. That's exactly what happens.

Well there is another major hoax site that has zero TS influence that you could participate on if this is how you feel. I'm not being snotty, I really just don't get it.

I don't understand the complaint. You chose to be here, you chose to participate, yet you have a multitude of complaints about it. I don't understand being unhappy and yet returning time after time again to complain some more and remain so perpetually unhappy by your own doing.

It matters who one follows. We have to know who's behind.

I can appreciate that, but TS has made it pretty clear that his identity isn't going to be revealed until some later date. That being said, you then have to make a choice; to believe in leu of proof, or that you are not comfortable taking that leap of faith. There is no wrong answer but again we come back to choice.

[MJonmind]

I believe what Michael/TS is showing us/teaching us, is difficult to understand, and he completely understands this.  But in the end it won't matter, everyone will eventually be brought up to speed, when the events unfold close to the end. In the meantime he's leaving it to us to search it out, with blood, sweat and tears if that's the case.  Michael still loves all of us here, and has never shown otherwise.  It's just the concepts are difficult to convey, but can only/better be understood in hindsight.


Mostly Jesus had followers after his ascension, and before his death there were few, who may have been tortured in spirit like many here.

John 6:55-71American Standard Version (ASV)

55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56 He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood abideth in me, and I in him.
57 As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father; so he that eateth me, he also shall live because of me.
58 This is the bread which came down out of heaven: not as the fathers ate, and died; he that eateth this bread shall live for ever.
59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.
60 Many therefore of his disciples, when the heard this, said, This is a hard saying; who can hear it?
61 But Jesus knowing in himself that his disciples murmured at this, said unto them, Doth this cause you to stumble?
62 What then if ye should behold the Son of man ascending where he was before?
63 It is the spirit that giveth life; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I have spoken unto you are spirit, are are life.
64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who it was that should betray him.
65 And he said, For this cause have I said unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it be given unto him of the Father.
66 Upon this many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
67 Jesus said therefore unto the twelve, Would ye also go away? 68 Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. 69 And we have believed and know that thou art the Holy One of God. 70 Jesus answered them, Did not I choose you the twelve, and one of you is a devil? 71 Now he spake of Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.