TIAI January 7

[Andrea]

I honestly don't see someone(s) being so utterly dedicated to "fooling" a very small group of people on the internet.  Trolls come in for a night of chaos then leave satisfied.  They don't stick around for over 2 years, offering astonishing information and 'coincidences' without being debunked.

If we all think Michael alive and is going to BAM (and this year - 2012) then it makes complete sense that we are seeing the pieces of the puzzle coming together.  The Pi(e) is almost ready, we can smell it!

[Australian MJ BeLIEver]

forgot to add that it brings to mind the scripture where god caused confusion in the red sea when the egyptians were on the chase. the scripture says that god 'took the wheels off the chariots, so that they were driving them with difficulty.

exodus 14:25 He twisted their chariot wheels, making their chariots difficult to drive. "Let's get out of here--away from these Israelites!" the Egyptians shouted. "The LORD is fighting for them against Egypt!"

- living translation.

[curls]

I honestly don't see someone(s) being so utterly dedicated to "fooling" a very small group of people on the internet. 

Totally agree Andrea!  Bottom line.

[RK]

Thanks for the reminder that Jermaine said he was like Aaron in that he acted as Michael's mouth piece. I think that was Sarahli? who brought that back out from the archives. And 2 years later, the puzzle piece fits.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaN2acVMGC8&feature=autoplay&list=UUTrA8LXEi6pvizX2S0mX2_w&lf=plcp&playnext=1[/youtube]

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[bec]

Why would god drown all those soldiers who are just following orders? And their poor horses? The horses are certainly innocents even if some argument could be made against the soldiers. Why would god send all those poor horses to such a horrifying death? Surely with all of gods power there was some other way of protecting the Israelites that didn't involve so much death of innocents.

[hesouttamylife]

but there are deaths of innocents every minute of every day.  Many times in catastrophic numbers.  It is said that the good shall suffer with the bad and that God allows this though he does not condone it.  We are given free will: the good, the bad and the ugly.  With all innocent deaths, it is usually not by choice but by association, time and place.

[bec]

But the story goes even further, that GOD caused the death of the first born male in every household... children... GOD did this. Not just condoned but CAUSED.

Bah. Doesn't matter. Just sayin'.

[hopi]

But the story goes even further, that GOD caused the death of the first born male in every household... children... GOD did this. Not just condoned but CAUSED.

Bah. Doesn't matter. Just sayin'.

That's why I don't believe in the biblical God. I believe in God, with all my heart, but not as he's described in parts of the bible.

[hesouttamylife]

Have you ever noticed that at many funerals the minister will say that death is ALWAYS God’s will, or that it was his/her time?  That always infuriates me.  When my son was tragically killed in a highway accident, I did not allow that to be spoken.  It caused me agreat deal of stress trying to locate a clergy who would denouce that.  However I did, and I was led to read a book called “When God Sheds Tears” by Richard Coffin who held to my convictions that this was a man made allegory created to blind us to the fact that there are evil forces at work as well as good ones.  Making God the deliverer of death and destruction by any means necessary only allows those working against good to exsercise their own evil free will because it would always be blamed on God.

[anewfan]

My comment was meant for the haters who seem to pop up out of the blue, they make one post and it usually is a rant about someone being fake, (TS/Front) or the fake fans who wait in the cut to see when they can strike.

@ IMCONVINCED, wonderful post again! regarding your comment above... oh yes, though only 4.5 months old here i know the type you are reffering to already... they are the ones who start off by saying "I have been reading here since the beginning, just made a profile now" and "I just wanted to say...." (they then put their *new* nose into a controversial discussion or back up someone who they side with)

I agree. You are right. This is a common tactic used on this forum to make sure a point is "proven" and I think it's wrong.

[MichaelsAngel]

But the story goes even further, that GOD caused the death of the first born male in every household... children... GOD did this. Not just condoned but CAUSED.

Bah. Doesn't matter. Just sayin'.

That's why I don't believe in the biblical God. I believe in God, with all my heart, but not as he's described in parts of the bible.

I tend to agree with this. I believe in God with all my heart but I'm skeptical of the Bible because it was written by man and I just can't imagine God would condone some of the things that are said in the Bible. However, I really need to study more about the Bible to gain a better opinion. I just need something that will push my faith in one direction or the other.

[melody]

Why would god drown all those soldiers who are just following orders? And their poor horses? The horses are certainly innocents even if some argument could be made against the soldiers. Why would god send all those poor horses to such a horrifying death? Surely with all of gods power there was some other way of protecting the Israelites that didn't involve so much death of innocents.

But the story goes even further, that GOD caused the death of the first born male in every household... children... GOD did this. Not just condoned but CAUSED.

Bah. Doesn't matter. Just sayin'.

I'm probably treading on dangerous ground, but this is my understanding of the narrative:

(1) Pharaoh "started it":

by the time this Pharaoh came into power, the Hebrew population in Egypt had grown to a threatening size and the new Pharaoh did not want to risk his political authority (Exodus 1:9-10); so, he chose to do a little "population control". Plan 'A' was to dwindle the Israelite population via slavery—that backfired. So Pharaoh moved on to Plan 'B': killing all the male children born to the Israelite women (this is why Moses' mother placed him in the basket in the river, to spare his life). YHWH gave Pharaoh a taste of his own medicine: "You killed my people's children, now I'll kill yours", justice served. Vengeance belongs to YHWH (Romans 12:19, Deuteronomy 32:35)

One could argue that every human being is a child of YHWH, but apparently when someone decides not to love/obey/respect YHWH, they have chosen to become his enemies (James 4:4, John 15:14, John 14:15), they've chosen a different "Father" (John 8:44). The soldiers chose to obey the Pharaoh, a mere man over YHWH, even after witnessing and living through all ten miraculous signs. They could have "jumped ship" and left with the Hebrews. They didn't have to obey Pharaoh. Why would they obey the Pharaoh after all that? Each plague was an attack on one of the Egyptian "Gods"; each one had been vanquished, concluding with the Pharaoh (Pharaohs were seen as "Gods" to the Egyptian, along with Hapi/Osiris Egyptian God of the Nile [1st plague, river turns to blood], Heket/Heqet the fertility Goddess portrayed as a frog [2nd just so happens to be a plague of frogs], Geb was the God of the Earth [3rd plague, lice coming from the dust of the earth], Khepri portrayed with the head of a fly [4th plague, swarm of flies], et cetera). Everything the Egyptians held in reverence/authority, YHWH rendered null; he demonstrated, "I have more power over this thing you call a 'god' ". Sure, the Pharaoh's magicians could summon up a counterfeit to a couple of the plagues (the first two), but every single time it was Moses & YHWH who had to restore things to the way they originally were. If the Egyptians' gods had any power, Pharaoh would not have begged Moses to ask YHWH to remove the plagues (for instance, Exodus 10:17); instead he would rely on his own gods. Logically, their idols weren't gods; they could not do anything to help them; why stay loyal to them then? If this "entity" defeated all of their "Gods", they could've switched sides. YHWH showed the Egyptians that Pharaoh had no power, he was a false god, so the soldiers could have left. In regards to the free will issue, YHWH changed their hearts, but they still could have gone with reason. The mind and the heart are seen as separate and distinct (Luke 10:27).

(2) the innocent horses had to die because,

• the Israelites might have been tempted to take the horses for themselves which YHWH forbade. The use of chariots and horses is spoken of disapprovingly (Isaiah 2:6-9); they are commonly seen as "relying on man's own might" and the Israelites were expected to rely on YHWH, not man.
• Once exposed to the luxury of horses, naturally they would want more; in order to buy more horses, they would have to trade with Egypt and YHWH did not want them going back there (Deu 17:16). In addition to that, if they developed trade relations with Egypt, they might get too friendly, assimilate into the Egyptian culture and be led into the worship of creation (themselves/humans [like the Egyptians who saw the Pharaohs as Gods], obelisks, sacred stones, wooden figurines, statues, animals, the sun, the river,  etc...); they were told outright not to worship created things (Exodus 20:4-6), nor to inquire about the ways the "heathens" AKA other nations worshiped and imitate them (Deu 12:30-31, 18:9)
• under the levitical law of "clean and unclean" animals, horses fell into the "unclean" category; the Israelites weren't even suppose to touch them. (Leviticus 11:43)
• strategic move: dwindling Pharaoh's numbers and equipment would give him no other alternative but to retreat, plus this would provide physical evidence for future generations to discover.

Hopefully I haven't misinterpreted anything.

[RK]

@melody, thankyou. Your reply is perfect.

[bec]

I don't buy it. A god who is powerful enough to turn the rivers to blood and shut out the entire sun need not cause suffering of innocents to get his point across. It makes no sense.

The horses are as much slaves as the Israelites were. There's no need to make them suffer to get a point across. Drowning is not a quick and painless death. The horses were damned if they did (cruel, suffering death) and damned if they didn't (whippings).

An all powerful god could have caused the banks and shores of the river to be so muddy that the horses could not make it through and the Egyptians never could have followed the Israelites into the sea floor. He could have caused the horses to spook terribly, refusing to go forward, causing them to suffer the whippings yet to no avail. He could have caused their instincts to override their training and made them frozen in their tracks or wheel and bolt back for home. God could have caused them to suffer blindness so they could not see to chase the Israelites. So many other options besides cruel, suffering death for these horses... not to mention the soldiers who were again, just following orders.

Horrible.

And this is reason #673259734608762 why I am an atheist.

[MJonmind]

Bec,

Horrible.
And this is reason #673259734608762 why I am an atheist.

But if there's no God, why is there evil at all?  There doesn't appear to be evil in the animal world. 

IMO I completely disagree that God only "allows evil"—no, He completely causes it—the Creator of the “outrageous” but true story in the Bible—on the stage of earth.  Plenty of proof, but it’s not the orthodox position. The Bible if analyzed is filled with ridiculous situations showing God to be devoid of any love, if taken as straight-forward. It's a layered book, just as this hoax is layered-- one of which is an ARG. It only "appears" that Michael is heartless to his fans/the world by faking/lying about his death, because the end result will be/is an amazing journey/escape/learning experience/healing of the planet.

It's helpful to ask questions like:  Is God really in control and all-powerful if somehow Satan is calling the shots? If God intervenes sometimes, why doesn't He intervene all the time? He knows the future, so why didn't he protect innocent/naive Adam and Eve from the liar/thief/raper who HE allowed into the safety of their home, something any parent would do?  Any story if picked apart becomes silly/impossible (like why does this person do this stupid thing which causes death and destruction for others?), but if these crazy things didn't happen we wouldn't have history in all it's beauty, variety, richness.  You don't know light without darkness, joy without pain, hate without love.

This article shows the many verses showing God is behind everything including evil.   You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login


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